Im about to do the most unforgivable thing to my dp... pls talk to me

(278 Posts)
desperatelysad Wed 03-Jul-13 08:33:20

Im a regular just n/c for this, i found out i was pregnant 2 weeks ago, i spent most of that time crying to myself at how i could be so stupid, dp does know and while it was a shock at first i think hes happy if still not in shock as its happened so soon after our ds.

Weve been together 13 years now and have a 1 year old son together who is wonderful, but i cant get away from the fact that i ahve done most if not all the child caring, its not dp's fault as he works full time at a hard manual labour job so is understandably tired most of the time (he is looking to change his job, but no so easy at the moment), ive been at home for the past 2 years trying to set up my own business working from home, which i havent really done anything to in the last year as ive been looking after my son, i dont have any close family by and i get really jealous of friends who say oh i just dropped the kids of at my mums to have a little sleep - i just dont have that luxury. Ive really struggled the last year on my own if im honest, the night feeds, the whole of the day, everything that goes with a baby ive done it all, dp would come and help occassionally at first but then his shifts changed so he misses most of the time ds is awake. - i dont at all blame dp its just the circumstances were in at the moment and i hope and pray they will change 1 day. Its only really weekends he's home and can help out and play with ds who he loves dearly.

Ds is enrolled in nursery very soon, he goes 2 days a week, i cant describe how deliriouslly happy i am that i will be getting 2 days to myself to do what i want - which will probably be working for myself anyway but still really exciting for me. I have very few friends, i rarely go out, ive been out twice in the past year since having ds. ive put on 3 stone through comfort eating, im just so not happy at the moment, dp does kind of understand but he cant possibly know exactly what im going through. I just feel like at the moment i have no life whatsoever and i feel ive really lost myself (cheesey i know but thats honestly how i feel, i dont know myself anymore).

So heres where i become a total bitch.. I decided myself at the weekend that i didnt want to be a mother of 2 yet, i want to get my life back just a little, i dont want to be on my own again for another year or so doing everything for 2 small children, i know that i wouldnt be able to cope as i struggle as it is. This 2nd baby could not have come at a worst time for us as a family, ds is just starting to sleep through, he goes to bed at 7pm, were just starting to get time together again and i feel its about to be ripped away from me. So i arranged for a termination for friday this week. I know im a total bitch and i dont deserve to have what i do with dp, he would die if he found out, but i just cannot tell him, nor can i have another baby basically on my own. Ive thought about this long and hard for weeks now and i picture myself happy not being pregnant. Ive been so pathetic and stupid getting into this situation and i never imagined my life the way it has turned out but it has, and this is the way i feel i must do it.

I dont even know why ive wrote it here, maybe to stop me panicking so much, i just needed to get it out as i was going crazy thinking things over and over in my head, i have no1 in rl to talk to about this, but if youve made it this far thankyou for listening/reading.

myroomisatip Wed 03-Jul-13 08:38:21

Oh dear. I have no experience of your situation but it must be dreadful. Do you plan on telling your DH? or rather, what do you plan telling him?

AgathaF Wed 03-Jul-13 08:39:17

You have to do what is right for you and your family. The only thing is, what if you can't cope emotionally and need to tell him?

Roshbegosh Wed 03-Jul-13 08:40:24

Are you sure you will never tell him? It will be a massive secret to keep and if you tell him in the future it might be the end of your marriage. The loss of trust and the loss of a baby.

MrsPresley Wed 03-Jul-13 08:41:49

I'm so sorry you're having to go through this sad

I have no advice, but I do think you have to do what is right for you.

Is there no way you could talk to your DH about this?

What are you going to tell him, will you be honest about the termination or do you really think you live your life with such a huge secret/lie between you. It's such a big thing to keep to yourself.

FCEK Wed 03-Jul-13 08:42:21

On the one hand it's your body, but on the other hand if you don't feel you can tell your dh how you feel then it can't be that great a relationship?

Also why haven't you been using contraception if you don't want another? I'm not against abortion but so many treat it as birth control.

Your dh is likely to notice if you are sick afterwards or have complications. These things do tend to come out in time so I reckon he will find out.

Tell him. The way you feel, stressed etc, won't go away with an abortion.

bobbywash Wed 03-Jul-13 08:42:34

Very tough, but youreally do need to talk to your DP abpout it. If this is the person you want to be with he has to know about your decision and your feelings.

The guilt could ruin a relationship, and if you feel it's OK to lie and keep secrets from him then I hope your prepared if he does the same. That's not meant to be harsh (although it is) but you really must talk to him. I can understand if your not ready and dont feel that it's right, and I am a great beliver in choice, but if you're with someone then they have a right to be involved in any discussion. Even if he is opposed you have to discuss it at least.

FanjoForTheMammaries Wed 03-Jul-13 08:42:58

I think you have to tell him or the guilt will absolutely eat you up for ever and you will end up splitting up. Plus of course he has the right to know.

Totall understand your worries and how hard it must feel though.

It sounds like you really need a break to me and if that can be arranged maybe your actions wouldn't have to be so drastic.

You would have time to yourself for quite a while after DS starts nursery and things may not feel quite so hard then

But of course it is not for us to make the decision for you.

Thumbwitch Wed 03-Jul-13 08:43:37

You cannot do this without telling him, it will hang over your relationship forever more. What if you have complications? You really really really should discuss this with him, it's too big a deal to hide from him.

FCEK Wed 03-Jul-13 08:44:07

Also see your gp or health visitor as you seem depressed and I've been there.

marzipananimal Wed 03-Jul-13 08:44:29

Gosh that sounds so hard. Is there any counselling you can access so you can talk it through with someone? Talk to your GP? I'm not sure your relationship could survive you having a termination behind his back, but only you can guess how he'd react if you discuss it first

BeenieBaby Wed 03-Jul-13 08:44:57

Why can't you tell him? It's your decision to have a termination and your reasons are all ones I can identify with. (We went on to have dd with a 18m gap and ts bloody hard work. Dh is only around to help weekends and even then he's so unused to their routine that I do a lot o the childcare anyway). But I would like to think that if I were pg again and wanted a termination, dh would be supportive of this and see that I wouldn't be able to cope!

SugarMiceInTheRain Wed 03-Jul-13 08:45:36

I agree that you will have to tell him or it is likely to come out at a later point when you are under stress or something, and the guilt will eat you up inside. What if there's a complication when you have the termination?

I do feel for you. sad

desperatelysad Wed 03-Jul-13 08:46:16

i honestly dont know what to do, i really dont. I look at my ds playing and think how lovely it would be if he had someone to play with...1 day though, just not know. Everything was just getting back to normalish for me, i was looking forward to having some free time to try and work again and hopefully meet some new people and try and get a life of my own back.

I dont think i could tell him the truth it would kill him and destroy us completely. I dont think he would ever forgive me so i thought it may be better to tell him i had miscarried. but then if he gave me any sympathy i would feel even worse and i dont know if i could live with myself knowing what id done. When i first told him i was pregnant (he actually found me crying in the bathroom so dragged it out of me) i did tell him i wouldnt be able to cope with 2, i explained everything to him but he said i was just panicking and in shock. well yes, but that hasnt gone away. Ive just made such a mess of everything. They would probably be so much better off without me anyway.

FanjoForTheMammaries Wed 03-Jul-13 08:48:31

The fact you are thinking like that shows you are depressed.

Please please address that before making your decision as it will be influencing things.

Also address it for yourself as you dont have to feel so awful and struggle so much.

TeeBee Wed 03-Jul-13 08:49:09

I'm so sorry this happened to you OP. I've been in a similar situation and its very very hard.

Who said the OP has not used contraception? That's not necessarily the case, it can fail.

OP, you seem to know that a termination is the right thing for you as you know you won't cope. This is your life, and you only have one. You really so need to do what you think is right and what you think you can live with. And you don't have to tell anyone if you don't want to. But I suspect you will tie yourself up in knots trying to keep it a secret. If there's a complication you will get very stressed trying to deal with it secretly.

RobotBananas Wed 03-Jul-13 08:49:31

You have to tell him.

Is there any possibility of things changing so you get more support from your husband? You say you don't blame him, but you feel you need to do this because you can't face another year of dealing with everything by yourself. You might end up resenting him for something he essentially had no control over.

Orchidlady Wed 03-Jul-13 08:50:19

desparate firstly you are not a bitch or pathetic, I think you are being very honest to yourself. But really think you should tell you DP how you feel this would be such a massive secret and will eat you away. You say he will die is he knew, but what if he finds out in the future it will be worse. Know you are feeling very emotional right now, is there anyone in RL you can talk with?

Dackyduddles Wed 03-Jul-13 08:50:39

Dear heavens you poor thing. This sounds a dreadfully painful situation for you. I'm sorry you are so conflicted.

Before you attend, one thing I notice from your post is you say you picture yourself happy not pregnant. The problem I see is that happy is not a state one stays in for long, just because its an emotion and they alter every minute. So, it worries me that you may not stay happy for long. How for example do you picture your relationship? Will you pretend an mc for example? Or tell dp after the fact?

I promise I'm not judging, I'm just throwing a couple of questions out as once this is done it cannot ever be unchanged. My very personal opinion is see your gp, ask for a counselling session? I might have misread how early you might be at, sorry if so. I think you need to talk and if dp isn't the person you can confide in perhaps a counsellor could be?

I too felt extremely overwhelmed by my first child, I've often felt/feel I hid from her as I didn't know what to do, couldn't cope for reasons I couldn't verbalise as I didn't have words for it. My second though has actually made me realise I'm better at this than I realised. I'm practiced I suppose. It's not been as frightening as I expected, and I'm still surprised at that.

Finally I am pro choice so ultimately if you are certain this is right for you then I do know I wish you well with it.

RobotBananas Wed 03-Jul-13 08:52:03

"They would probably be so much better off without me anyway."

Please go and see your GP and talk to them about all of this.

myroomisatip Wed 03-Jul-13 08:52:34

Could you get some counselling?

Is there nothing that can be changed so that you get some really practical help if you went ahead? Would you feel happier having your baby if you could get some extra help?

I know what it is like, I had two close together with no friends or family nearby sad

FanjoForTheMammaries Wed 03-Jul-13 08:53:02

That is my concern too..that it might seem rightnow but you might later regret it.

Thumbwitch Wed 03-Jul-13 08:53:04

desperatelysad, any decent place that performs abortions will give you some level of counselling before you have it anyway - so I suggest you try and access some of that ASAP. You NEED to have this straight in your head because once it's done, you have to live with the repercussions forever more - and as I said, there is always the risk of complications (not as high as it used to be but still a risk - how would you feel if you had this and it caused infertility so you could never have another child?)

I am fully pro-choice but it HAS to be informed choice - and it has to be done so that you are not left with the pressure of keeping this secret every day for the rest of your relationship/life.

PLEASE go to your GP ASAP, get the counselling, try and work out if this is really what you want to do. You have to do it for your own sanity, never mind everything else.

I feel for you but I really think you should tell him. Not least because an abortion will affect you physically for a few days, and emotionally for longer. I don't see how you can hide it permanently. Lies and secrets destroy people and relationships.

So sorry, op, sounds very distressing. This is not you being a bitch, this is you realising this is the wrong time for you to be having a baby.

Please talk to your dh and give him the chance to support you on this. Tell him you can't cope with another one now, show him your distress and talk to him.

If you just do this in secret and never tell then you are driving a HUGE wedge between you and your dh, setting yourself up for terrible problems in your marriage. Because that is one hell of a lie, and one hell of a secret.

Don't you think he will be supportive about your decision?

leeloo1 Wed 03-Jul-13 08:59:12

I'm so sorry you're feeling like this. I felt the same after having my DS who slept badly and I did pretty much all the night wakings/care for. We'd planned to have 2 years between the DC and my DH was all gung-ho about trying for another when DS was 12/14 months and I was adamant that I just wasn't ready and wouldn't cope.

In the end I decided I was about ready to try again when DS was about 3... at which point I just couldn't get pregnant (I fell pregnant in 1 week with DS - literally), after a year of trying, then numerous tests (some very painful), I got pregnant twice then had 2 miscarriages. Really it was only losing the babies that made me realise how much I wanted one - before then I still wondered if I was ready/would cope.

Then DH had a test which showed his semen was only suitable for ICSI, (the more expensive version of IVF). We wouldn't qualify for any free tries, so suddenly I was faced with the prospect of never having a 2nd child, or needing to remortgage and spend all our savings on trying to have one, which was devastating.

Luckily for me, by some miracle I then got pregnant naturally and I'm now 28 weeks. But having faced the very real possibility of never having a 2nd child made me wish I'd tried earlier. Also, we'll now have 5.5 years between the two dc which makes me wonder what their relationship will be like - especially when all round me friends have 2 siblings close in age happily playing together. And I've had 3 years of DS sleeping through and I do wonder how I'll cope with the broken nights again! But I now feel I'm very lucky to have those as minor worries.

I'm not sure if any of this is helping, I just wondered if rather than thinking 'how will I cope?' you considered that it might be your last chance to have a baby, would you feel differently?

If not, then you don't need to go through with the pregnancy, but I do feel you should talk to your DH - tell him how desperate you're feeling and get him to support you through the termination. Its a very big secret to keep and you may be very emotional/hormonal/have regrets afterwards which you won't be able to discuss with him.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

MadBusLady Wed 03-Jul-13 09:01:57

OP, I completely understand your reasons for wanting a termination (think I would too in your shoes) but what is jumping out of particularly your second post is that you sound depressed. There is NO WAY your son would be "better off without you". And there is also no way it's a good idea to not tell your DP. Honestly, love, this is the depression talking. It might well be the right decision to terminate, but it's a bonkers idea not to tell him. What if you have a complication afterwards, he's not going to know what's going on.

Please get help. You have to tell your DP. Tell him it's not just "shock and panicking", you still feel the same, you are miserable about it. Tell him you are going to take steps to help yourself. Get an emergency appointment with your GP to discuss PND. Talk to Marie Stopes for a counselling appointment if you haven't already. How far along are you?

flipchart Wed 03-Jul-13 09:02:21

You have to tell him, otherwise the rest of your relationship is based on a lie.
Your relationship will just become a big sham . He has a right to the information that you are about to abort his potential child.

leeloo1 Wed 03-Jul-13 09:06:16

Took ages to post and cross posted with you OP. If DH is adamant he wants the second child now, then can you insist he provides more practical help?

e.g. I can't cope you will need to bath DS on Mon and Weds, do the laundry on Saturday and hoover whole house on Sunday.

He needs to prove his support, not just tell you that you'll be fine.

MadBusLady Wed 03-Jul-13 09:08:01

Respectfully, I suggest other posters refrain from referring to loaded terms and phrases like "you might regret it", "what if you could never have another" etc. That is likely to make the OP freeze up further. Depressive thinking is extreme enough without being offered more catastrophic possibilities to chew over.

AgathaF Wed 03-Jul-13 09:08:25

I wonder if you have PND. Could you go and talk to your GP?

TalkativeJim Wed 03-Jul-13 09:09:27

'he works full time at a hard manual labour job so is understandably tired most of the time'

'dp would come and help occassionally at first...'

So he's left you to it, basically?

I understand what you're saying about his shifts and being in a manual labour job which leaves you physically tired... but - um - that's exactly what YOU have been doing since the baby was born too, essentially.

YOU work long (by the looks of it, completely back-to-back) shifts in a job which leaves you physically EXHAUSTED (because although you may not be carting bricks around or whatever, you don't sleep, which puts completely in the shade any job which is hard going but at the end of which you can REST AND SLEEP).

So - when both of you tired manual workers are home at the weekend, or when it's a night where your DP doesn't have work the next day, does he take on the night waking so you get at least ONE night of sleep to catch up? I'm guessing not. Does he take your son out for the day/afternoon?

Does he do ANY of the other shitwork - washing, shopping, cooking, cleaning? I'm guessing little.

No matter what job he does, this is not good, and he is not taking on the responsibiliy he should as a parent, and this is why you feel the way you do. So no judgement here, I'm afraid, but a lot of anger on your behalf, as I can sympathise with the situation you find yourself in. And the fact that it's highly unlikely you're going to be able to change your status quo to the extent that the division of REAL labour in your lives becomes fairer and lets you believe that 2 is manageable. Why do I say that? This:

'i did tell him i wouldnt be able to cope with 2, i explained everything to him but he said i was just panicking and in shock.'

How bloody complacent. Easy for him, eh?

Do you think you will be able to tell him what you have told us - and tell him that you will not be able to go ahead with this pregnancy unless things change? - that he takes on some REAL responsibility with the new baby, and your DS?

What would he say?

What would he do?

Would he say whatever it took, then when it's too late (when the baby is here) you'd be back where you are?

To those saying the deceit would destroy your relationship - that's quite likely. You need to think very, very hard. But it's no less likely that going ahead would also destroy both your relationship and your sanity, and this time with two children to consider.

Does he have the right to a say? Technically no, and also I'd say even less of a right given that he has proven that he considers all the work of childrearing to be your problem and your problem alone.

The point is you shouldn't have to ASK. A loving partner and a good dad SEES when you are knackered, when you NEED a night's sleep, and pitches in. They take the baby as they walk in the door so you can get away for an hour - lie down, whatever. They sort out washing or cooking or do a shop on the way home because they know this makes a massive difference to you and doesn't cost them.

I have to say - I don't know what job your DP does, but part of my attitude here is coloured by the fact that I worked on building sites for years. And I can assure you, the guys working on the plant, doing demolition/ pile driving/ whatever, are NOT spending the day bathed in sweat. Far from it...

Bonsoir Wed 03-Jul-13 09:09:36

It's absolutely fine to terminate your pregnancy and not tell your DP, providing you are going to be able to keep the secret forever.

BabsAndTheRu Wed 03-Jul-13 09:14:19

I don't know if this will help or not but just wanted to tell you about our situation. Its not to help you make a decision, that has to be up to you. We have three DCS, 4, 2 and 11 months. We have no support as mum has cancer and mum in law has dementia, so totally get how you feel when friends talk about dropping kids of at family to get time on their own. DS2 was only 9 months when found out DD was on her way. Was totally in shock as had fertility treatment for the first two. I was terrified about how I would cope but it was the emotional support of DP that got me through, he would support me with whatever I decided. So here we are with our broad and yes it's hard work but because they are all so close in age they all play together. I actually find it easier than when I had just one as I was there only source of entertainment. They all entertain each other. The eldest starts school after the summer, the middle one goes to nursery x2 a week and the wee one will start nursery in a year. We go to a toddler group twice a week so I have adult contact and also play dates when the parent comes as well so we can have a natter and a coffee as well. These are all people I know through meeting at toddlers and nursery as I knew I needed adult company and all the parents I know feel the same. Without the adult company I would be feeling very isolated. DP had the same working hours as your DP through the first few years but managed to get a job closer to home when I was expecting DD and this has made a huge difference.
This is just a snap shot of our situation but it works. Tell your DP how you feel, what you are planning etc, you need him. Start getting out and about and meet other parents to get some adult conversation. As for bed time its like a little army barracks here, dinner, bath and everyone to bed by 7 even the baby. We need our time on our own to recharge the batteries.
Good luck op in whatever you decide but tell your DP.

BabsAndTheRu Wed 03-Jul-13 09:15:15

Brood not broad

Branleuse Wed 03-Jul-13 09:16:07

just tell him that youre sorry but you just cant physically or mentally continue with this pregnancy. That you really hope he can support you but its just not possible in the current circumstances.

flipchart Wed 03-Jul-13 09:17:37

MassiveBusLady, no it is not ok for you to request that from other posters tbh.

Rushing in to a termination is not a quick resolve solution. Things can go wrong, things need to be considered.

If the OP has had time to rationally think of things, think about the rest of her life with her partner and have that hanging over her then fine.
However she wants to possibly pretend she has had a miscarriage. That would be so wrong. Her DP may be offering her support and upset at losing their baby when it is a big fat lie. The OP would have gone and deliberately terminated the pregnancy and then lie and pretend it was natural causes. How can that be righting relationship with someone she loves?

A miscarriage and abortion are poles apart.

TheMoonOnAStick Wed 03-Jul-13 09:19:46

Some good advice on here. You sound worn out with the worry of all this. I really feel for yousad

You are not an awful person for needing to do this for the reasons you give. I think you do need some support and someone to talk to though. I would also urge you to chat with your GP.

hatsybatsy Wed 03-Jul-13 09:19:52

Do you like and trust your gp? I would start there with a chat about how you feel. You have plenty of time for counselling.

I would also try talking to your dp again. He doesn't sound at all aware how you feel. Maybe one evening when he's not working? over a glass of wine?

And then? Well IMO that's your decision. You can have a termination and not tell him - it is your decision.

Take care of yourself.

MadBusLady Wed 03-Jul-13 09:24:09

flipchart I think you have missed my point.

In my first post I said that the decision to not tell him is absolutely nonsensical and wrong, and it's the depression talking. I said she must seek help urgently, and first port of call is him and then the GP. I don't know, from here, what should happen on Friday, but I think she urgently needs more input from professionals. So basically we seem to agree there.

What I consider unhelpful (and note I "suggested", I did not "request") is waving a load of "bogeymen" possibilities in her face to do with regret, her future family etc which is likely to paralyse her further. She is clearly in no state to consider such huge themes. Depression does not put you in a rational place.

libertine73 Wed 03-Jul-13 09:28:06

Oh love, I sympathise, I really do. But honestly, how do you know your DP was not just trying to be supportive? I mean he may think you would never consider a termination, so just said 'all the right things' to reassure you it would all be OK.

Please give him the chance to be supportive of your (very sensible under the circumstances) decision. It's you that will be raising 2 under 2, and you know you can't do it.

I think he may surprise you.

BabsAndTheRu Wed 03-Jul-13 09:29:53

Sorry meant to say as well get to the GP for some support as well as you sound really low just now. Our GP is really supportive whenever we attend for anything as they know how hard it is coping with young children. Wishing you all the best op.

brokenhearted55 Wed 03-Jul-13 09:30:23

What difference will waiting a bit make to have another baby.

Wait until he's older and you have even more time and independence and then its even more of a shock to go back to being stuck at home with a baby.

You can't lie to your partner about this.

Theyoniwayisnorthwards Wed 03-Jul-13 09:31:18

OP please go and see your GP, the decision to terminate will have emotional consequences for you and you will need support from your partner. What you are suggesting, hiding it from him for the rest of your lives, sounds like a recipe for stress and unhappiness.

Whilst I firmly believe your body, your choice, you are a family and he needs to know what you are going through and how you came to your decision.

From your posts it doesn't sound to me like you are thinking clearly, you sound panicked and depressed. You are not a bitch, you are not horrible, you need to be listened to and given support.

libertine73 Wed 03-Jul-13 09:31:42

It would make a difference to her broken or she may decide she doesn't want another, point is she doesn't want one now

flipchart Wed 03-Jul-13 09:31:50

Do you have to have the termination on Friday?

Have you got a bit of time left to get counselling and get support from your DP?

An abortion might end up being the right thing for you and your family but I would hate you to rush into it alone, with no support thinking it was the only option and regret it later.

The early years can be horrendous and seem to never end. I remember curling up on the settee crying my heart out because DS1 had been crying none stop for days. I wanted to abandone him! DH was out of the house from 7.30 until 8.00pm trying. To save his business, which ultimately failed, leaving me with a husband spiralling into depression and a non stop crying baby and over £100,000 of debt. ( Yes that much!). and no one to help. No family, friends working

Bad times. I can understand some of your stress.

Please talk to some first as well ads your DP.

TalkativeJim Wed 03-Jul-13 09:33:52

MadBusLady, the decision not to tell him may indeed be what you and many others consider deeply wrong - it is certainly a tragic and possibly very damaging thing to do, but from what the OP has posted it is NOT nonsensical, sadly.

Hopefully the OP will give more information on the situation at home, but it sounds as if she is at breaking point - serious breaking point, where she is considering termination - partly because her DP is not pulling his weight. A good partner who sees his DP struggling RARELY fails to help through sheer ignorance. If she is faced with the choice of

a. Telling her DP to help more or she will not be able to cope - he sympathises, makes promises - she has the baby - things quickly slip back to the norm = she has a breakdown and they split acrimoniously, or;

b. Telling her DP that she cannot do this again and she is terminating = they split acrimoniously,

...then unfortunately, pretending she has miscarried so that their family stays together, with the collateral damage being the unseen damage to their relationship and the guilt which she carries alone - then I can see the logic of her (awful) decision.

It's clear to me that ths situation has arisen because SHE GETS NO HELP. I think that finding out more about her DP's attitude and trying to see if helping her change the situation at home can work is possibly the best way of helping the OP right now.

Phineyj Wed 03-Jul-13 09:43:07

OP you could call the Samaritans for someone to talk to immediately?

maltravers Wed 03-Jul-13 09:59:19

Can you afford a mothers help for a couple of mornings a week to buy a bit of "me time" while you take abit of time to consider whether to continue this pregnancy? Tell your Dp why this is an absolute necessity perhaps as a way of broaching the possible termination. Fwiw I have twins and now they are a bit older i reckon they are easier than a single child as they play together. Go and see your Gp too.

boomoohoo Wed 03-Jul-13 10:00:53

Op I had to post - you are so so far from bring a bitch. You sound incredibly overwhelmed and exhausted by motherhood, something I and many others can identify with. You are effectively a single mother, you could end up having 2 under 2, doing it mostly on your own. I know I could never have done that and you should not feel ashamed for not wanting that. I had Pnd, I'm not sure if you do but you sound down, you need to see your gp. And I really hope u can be honest with your dp about how u feel and that he puts no pressure on you to go forward with this pregnancy. If he was truly supportive he would want what is best for u. X

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 03-Jul-13 10:09:27

Glad you reached out here OP if you aren't up to responding hope you are reading the ^^ replies.

One, DS and DP would most certainly not be better off without you.

Two, you get to decide what you do with your body, no-one else, can you just also consider your mind as well? This is such a big decision and is so much to bear unsupported, will you not allow yourself the support of talking first to your GP?

Three, it took two of you to conceive DS and somehow the childcare has become all your problem, now you are pregnant again and this seems to be turning into another solo effort when all the time you are half of a couple. What you haven't said is that you don't love or trust DP. Are you certain DP won't listen to you now or see your p.o.v?

HenriettaPye Wed 03-Jul-13 10:19:49

Oh OP,how sad.just wanted to share my story.

I got pregnant with DC2 when DC1 was a year old. I was horrified. Baby was not planned, and I'm ashamed to say not wanted. The thought of a termination entered my head. I spoke to DP and my mum and they reassured me that- yes it would be hard work, but really there are worse things that could happen! I took their advice, and am now the proud mummy of a just turned 3 yo and an almost 1 yo.

There ARE advantages of having your children close together. My two are best friends. DC1 wasn't a great sleeper, so I was worried about that, but it wasn't so bad- it was actually easier than getting used to having a full nights sleep then having to get used to night feeds again!! Same with nappies- just as easy to change two as one! And in a few years, they will b off to school/nursery and I will have time to myself, rather than getting DS off to school then having another baby in a few years and having to start from scratch again!

This decision is yours to make, but please don't rush into anything, or don't do anything without talking it through with someone! When I now look at DC2 it breaks my heart to think of what could have happened sad

theboutiquemummy Wed 03-Jul-13 10:36:27

It's an awful situation to be n as terrible as it seems with a little one, imagine how awful your DP is going to feel when you tell him why you've done it

I really feel for you and it's your body your choice but it's also your marriage n there are two people in it you never know he could agree with you

Sounds like you've been battling PND by yourself n that's likely to colour your judgement also

Talk to him

Wishing you well xox

BabsAndTheRu Wed 03-Jul-13 10:40:14

Henrietta totally agree with every thing you have just said, felt exactly the same and as you say its only a few years and no starting from scratch again. Op loads of us have felt the way you do, you are not alone.

GettingStrong Wed 03-Jul-13 10:44:30

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BlueSkySunnyDay Wed 03-Jul-13 10:48:47

You sound depressed - I am surprised if you have been to a Doctor and discussed a termination that they did not pick this up - I really think you need to sort that problem before you made a life changing decision so please get an appointment as soon as you can. Let us know how you get on.

My H does a manual job, it was still his responsibility to help during the evenings - nappy changes, baths cooking tea or clearing up. A large percentage of men will not volunteer these things but if you ask in the right way they will do them (I figure if he huffs and puffs a bit its a small price to pay for getting stuff done!)

Guerrillacrochet Wed 03-Jul-13 10:53:15

OP I just wanted to say how sad I am to hear your situation and I really feel for you. You don't sound like a bitch at all, but you do sound as if you need some help, and quickly. Your DP and DS would absolutely not be better off without you... your son loves and needs his mummy and your DP loves you too.
Please, please talk to your GP or health visitor, or the Samaritans. I think you are too upset and worn out to think about what you want at the moment. I am totally pro-choice but you need to make this decision with a clear head. If there is any way of delaying by a week or so then please talk to someone first.
I know you don't have anyone physically close in RL but could you talk to anyone on the phone?

Squitten Wed 03-Jul-13 10:59:53

OP you don't sound in the right head space to be making such a huge decision like this right now.

I sympathise with your situation. I had a hell of a time with DS1 when he was new and when he was 5mths old we accidentally fell pregnant again. We were both entirely in agreement that we couldn't manage with another child just then and we terminated as early as possible. It was a very logical, calmly made decision that neither of us has ever regretted for a moment. I worry very much that you are not thinking entirely clearly and may really come to regret it. Don't make any hasty decisions just yet.

I really think you should tell your DP about how you are feeling and get yourself to the doctors so you can process all this with a clear head.

BerkshireMum Wed 03-Jul-13 11:09:30

So, so sorry this is happening to you.

Someone close to me had a not dissimilar situation a few years ago and had a termination. At that stage she had two children under five. Three years later she had a planned third baby and they are all very happy.

She told her DH and they dealt with it together. They felt it was right for them at the time but always suspected they'd want to have another child later.

It worked for them. The termination was hard - and not something that she would've been able to hide physically anyway - but they supported each other.

Do you really not think he might understand? Are you saying no more children ever? Or just not now, sadly?

Good luck xx

KeepCoolCalmAndCollected Wed 03-Jul-13 11:29:17

OP I haven't had time to read all answers, so hopefully I am not doubling up!

My advice would be not to rush in to this decision, because what might have been, will stay with you for the rest of your life.

Have you thought through any positives at all? In practical terms although extremely tough for you at the moment, keeping this baby would mean that you would be bringing up two little ones at the same time in, as opposed to having to start completely from scratch in a few years time.

In effect doing the hard bit now you would be killing two birds with one stone. Also having two so close together SHOULD mean that they will be very close.

I don't have any family nearby to help either so I really do appreciate where you are coming from, but please slow down and take a step back before you make your final decision.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do x

Mosman Wed 03-Jul-13 11:29:57

Oh god you must tell him, it will destroy your relationship if you don't, intimacy is about sharing the good and the bad, I learnt that the hard way.

desperatelysad Wed 03-Jul-13 11:34:12

sorry had to take ds out for a walk but ive just read all your replies.
If someone else had wrote this id be saying exactly the same thing, tell your partner etc. It would be one of the most heartbreaking conversations id ever have to have and i dont know if im up to it.

Ive also thought about all options such as those mentioned about how the 2 would be so close, it would be over in 1 push instead of starting again in a few years, but if im honest i planned to have a 2 year age gap between children so i could cope with a baby while the other was in nursery, although ds is going for 2 days thats all i can afford, My mum lives abroad with work but retires sep 2014 and is moving back home to our area. dp's family are alcoholics so they dont get to help out at all as i refuse to ask them, i have a brother whose at uni miles away and i see now and again. My 1 friend works full time has her own little girl and stepchildren so is always busy with them.

I dont mean to pain dp in a bad light, but in all honesty this is what its been like the past year i have done everything by myself, even the weekends when he is off work he doesnt know his routine or what he eats for dinner so i end up doing everything myself anyway. Ive thought about what if this causes problems and im unable to have children in the future and thats terrifying, but whats more terrifying is having another baby right now by myself.

I also take on board the depressed comments, i didnt think i was ive just spent the last year getting through day by day, week by week and suddenly a whole year has passed which has gone so quickly, so maybe ive just had my head down trying my best to plod through. My dr's arent the best at being sympathetic, its kind of in and out within 5 minutes. I went to an abacus clinic in town rather than visitng my gp.

Believe me ive thought of nothing else since i found out i was pregnant (missed 2 pills so was using protection!) i dont know what else to say, just thankyou for reading.

meddie Wed 03-Jul-13 11:35:17

I think we are too quick to label people as depressed and assume they are not making a rational decision. To me this seems like a totally rational decision. The OP is raising a baby alone with little help from her partner, she is finding it extremely difficult to have 24 hour care without a break and the thought of adding another child on top is what she finds unbearable.

I think you need to let your husband know about this OP, not because I feel he should have any say on whether you go ahead or not ( unless he is willing to provide the child care for this child) but because trying to keep this a secret for the rest of your relationship will affect you.

mixedmamameansbusiness Wed 03-Jul-13 11:42:16

I think you need to tell him because it could come out, perhaps for a future pregnancy when booking on with the MW you would need to mention previous pregnancies I think, you just might not cope emotionally and it may come out, you may argue and it may come out.

I really do feel for you, we had a false alarm recently and it was very difficult and your situation must be frightening.

Whilst I appreciate what you are saying in terms of you being the main caregiver I think it is important to understand that this is his baby too and that not telling him could be the end of your relationship which sounds like a good relationship.

vix206 Wed 03-Jul-13 11:45:27

desperatelysad I haven't read all the replies but here are my thoughts.

The fact you are focussing on what a 'terrible thing you are about to do to your dp' tells me that you are not going to be able to cope with the guilt of going through this without his knowledge and support. Yes, it will be hard for him but you cannot do this on your own. Many moons ago I was in your position (different reasons but decided to terminate) and I simply could not have done it without my dp. Before, during and after - and all these years after.

Your fears are not irrational or invalid, and you sound like you know what you want from life. Please, please involve your partner and tell him how you feel so that you can go through it together. But if you really cannot do that then please reach out to somebody in real life who can support you.

BabsAndTheRu Wed 03-Jul-13 11:48:41

This isn't making much sense to me know. You plan to have a two year age gap between your DCs anyway so you would terminate this pregnancy to try and conceive again in three months time. What difference is that going to make to your life then. Your talking 20 month age gap or 24 month age gap.

vix206 Wed 03-Jul-13 11:49:13

Sorry you don't say terrible you say 'unforgivable' which is even stronger. If you don't tell him you will hate yourself and your relationship will suffer. I hid a (relatively minor) debt from my credit card-averse DH for 5 years and it crippled me emotionally. Told him one Christmas Day and the world didnt end. In fact, after a couple of days of shock, we were stronger for it and he helped me financially and emotionally. I no longer felt guilty and horrible all the time. If you do this behind his back it will eat you up, I'm sorry to be so direct but it really will.

BabsAndTheRu Wed 03-Jul-13 11:49:31

Now not know

I think the likelihood that you will be able to keep this a secret for the rest of your life is about 0 percent. So really, it's best to tell him now. However badly he takes it, it will still be better than if he finds out later that you did this and lied to him about it.

Also, perhaps this will give him the kick in the arse he needs to start helping you properly, or to get a new job.

colditz Wed 03-Jul-13 12:10:36

If you don't want another baby, don't have one. It's your uterus, you own it and you own the contents, to do as you please with.

flipchart Wed 03-Jul-13 12:15:42

If you don't want another baby, don't have one. It's your uterus, you own it and you own the contents, to do as you please with.

Absolutely true Colditz.

No emotions are involved, no feelings of support needed after going through what most women would find a traumatic experience. No pratical help needed if she feels sore.
Bollocks to the free and easy dispatch and get shut attitude.
It's more complex than that.
This is why people are urging the OP to take her time if she can, get help, try to talk to her partner.

Ultimately it may be the best thing, who knows but the 'your uterus, do what you want' attitude brings nothing to the table.

RoooneyMara Wed 03-Jul-13 12:19:53

You sound very lonely.

It is like this with a baby, you DO lose sight of yourself. Completely, everything about you changes, or seems to.

But gradually that comes back. Trust me.

It is incredibly hard doing it on your own which you are pretty much (I say this as a single mother with a baby and 2 older kids too)

I think this is a knee jerk decision you're making and if you could concentrate on how YOU feel and how wrong things are in your own life (dp not being much use, no support etc etc) and how those things could be sorted, the baby won't seem like such a 'this will solve it all' thing.

Hope this doesn't sound too horrible, but it sounds so familiar what you're saying, like when I have felt really bad, like I've no control in my life, no support - and it's a bit like someone suicidal would be thinking, but instead of that youre playing it out with the baby. If you see what I mean - just as I'd say suicide isn't the answer, I'd say the same about your having an abortion now.

I hope that makes sense and doesn't offend anyone. I'm only writing from experience.

colditz Wed 03-Jul-13 12:20:16

It brings to the table the reminder that she isn't actually DOING ANYTHING TO HER HUSBAND by making a choice about her own body.

badguider Wed 03-Jul-13 12:23:29

Very much against the majority here OP I would probably have a termination in your shoes.... I have always said that I need to have my first child walking, talking and preferably potty trained before I could consider a second.

BUT... I would tell my husband, I don't think you can have a 'secret' termination - you'd have to claim miscarriage and deal with all the greif/sympathy around that which would make you feel terrible.

I think you should tell your DH that he doesn't understand, it's not just shock, the last year has been far worse for you than he can possibly understand and you feel you just cannot do it again so soon. Hopefully he will then realise how serious you are.. I get the feeling you've been 'coping' pretty well actually and so he probably has no idea of how your'e really feeling.

vix206 Wed 03-Jul-13 12:24:19

The thing is, it is about so much more than what it does to the physical body. It's not like having a haircut, complex emotions are involved. hmm

flipchart Wed 03-Jul-13 12:25:58

She's potential lying to him.

She isn't giving him chance to have a say in a baby that he has helped create or a chance to make things better.

Like I said ultimately an abortion may the correct decision but the sweeping statement that you came up with sounds cold, matter of fact and a complication free procedure which doesn't take other factors into account such as she is part of a relationship and may need health and emotional support.

KeepCoolCalmAndCollected Wed 03-Jul-13 12:26:59

colditz
It is her husband's baby too, and this could have a negative effect on him and their future relationship.

Quangle Wed 03-Jul-13 12:27:05

I'm hugely pro terminations - they do a huge amount of good in the world and that should absolutely be on the table for you. But I can't think that having a termination without telling DH is a good idea. Not because it will scar you for life or all the rubbish people talk about what it's like to have an abortion - for some people it's a great decision and they look back on their decision with gratitude. But because it will be a secret in your marriage and because it already sounds as though communication is a problem.

You need to stop bearing all of this alone (current DC, all the worry over what you are going to do). It will lead to extreme thinking of the kind madbuslady was referring to (and I think she's absolutely right btw). You need to talk to him, I think. He needs to know that the current situation (which he does not yet fully understand) must change - either you get a termination or he changes his ways. Either way, something has to shift.

colditz Wed 03-Jul-13 12:27:58

Yes I know, at no point did I say it was a simple as getting a haircut.....

Am I being deliberately misunderstood? Because I posted my first post in the hope that the OP would be reminded that, whatever her choice, her husband wasn't having anything done to him. I was attempting to help to clear some of the emotional fog that surrounds something as traumatic as an unwanted pregnancy. I posted in the hope that the choice the OP makes will be for her, not for her husband, her existing child, or people who can't have any more babies and feel she should be grateful.

Of course it's a complex situation and a miserable position to be in, at no point did I suggest that it wasn't though.

bobbywash Wed 03-Jul-13 12:28:22

colditz that attitude is just wrong, she is lying to her husband and proposing to keep it a secret. Is that not doing anything?

How can you square that your post with your position if he had lied and kept a secret? I have little doubt it would be LTB.

Still it's more about the OP than your agenda, she should talk it over and get any help she feels she needs.

colditz Wed 03-Jul-13 12:29:05

No, it is not her husband's baby. Currently, it is a bundle of cells in her uterus, and other people don't get a say in what one does with ones uterus.

Back2Two Wed 03-Jul-13 12:29:48

even the weekends when he is off work he doesnt know his routine or what he eats for dinner so i end up doing everything myself anyway. Ive thought about what if this causes problems and im unable to have children in the future and thats terrifying, but whats more terrifying is having another baby right now by myself.

Just wondering, do you allow your husband the chance to do it his way at the weekend? You "end up doing everything yourself"..... That's actually a choice that you are making and you are not allowing him the opportunity to do his bit....because you are sure he'll just "do it wrong".

You could have some time to yourself if you give your husband simple guidance (time of food, time of nap). Just a structure. Then, let him do it his way and relinquish the responsibity to your son's dad! He won't do it the same as you guaranteed, but your son will be fine and will come to no harm. He may benefit from a different approach.

Of course, this is only if your husband is up for it, and actually does want to spend time with his child/ren. You'll soon know if you actually let go of the control. Being in total control is probably stressing you out, making you depressed and isolating you.

meddie Wed 03-Jul-13 12:30:00

Op just wants support. I think posts urging her to think again and that 'others have done it, you can too' aren't really helpful and just pile on the guilt that she should be coping, not all of us do.

OP. only you know whether you can cope with having 2 under 2, only you can make that decision. none of us have the right to try and persuade you or guilt trip you, as none of us will be there at 2am coping with a fractious, toddler and a newborn or coping with teething, weaning, colic and the myriad other issues involved with child care.
None of us will be taking the baby to give you a nap or a day off.

Your husband needs to know that you are going ahead with this and the reasons why (lack of support). because physically a termination will be difficult to hide, not to mention people will get suspicious about the lack of medical intervention/scans etc)

As a poster above mentioned, unless he has actually done full time childcare he will have little understanding of how physically and emotionally draining it can be. I assume you have been keeping up a facade of coping ( as most women are conditioned into doing).

Good luck with your decision.

ouryve Wed 03-Jul-13 12:30:07

I think something this big needs to be discussed with your DP. While it's ultimately your decision whether or not you want to carry a baby, having a termination behind your DP's back without discussing your feelings with him can't possibly do your relationship any good.

colditz Wed 03-Jul-13 12:30:12

Yes, obviously I must have a sinister agenda hmm ...

KeepCoolCalmAndCollected Wed 03-Jul-13 12:32:05

colditz
You say: "I posted in the hope that the choice the OP makes will be for her, not for her husband, her existing child, or people who can't have any more babies and feel she should be grateful."

But it very much does have implications on her husband and her existing child.

In a way, by having a termination and not telling your DP you are again taking on all the responsibility for yourself and not putting any on him.

In the same way you are having to do all the childcare, you will have to bear all the emotions and physical effects of a termination, while his life continues as normal.

You need to become more "selfish", in a sense -- you should not have to deal with everyone on your own. He needs to step up. It takes two people to make a baby, he is just as responsible as you.

wannaBe Wed 03-Jul-13 12:35:06

so let me get this straight. You are pregnant, your dp knows, but you are going to have a termination and then presumably tell him you have had a miscarriage? Really?

Now, whether you have a termination or not isn't for anyone to judge really. Everyone's circumstances are different and everyone has to do what is right for them.

But to convince the father, a man you are supposed to love, that you have had a miscarriage, to let him believe his baby has died and to grieve for that loss is frankly despicable. You have to communicate with him about your feelings but you cannot simply lie to him about this. this isn't even a situation where he doesn't know you're pregnant - he does and you're going to convince him that his baby died? no. no no no no no no no no no no.

Back2Two Wed 03-Jul-13 12:35:18

Don't rush into a decision.

A termination is a relatively simple procedure. But, it is incredibly emotional as well as practical. You sound as though you are not feeling stable emotionally and you feel like a rabbit in headlights. Not a great way to make a life changing decision.

Just take a breath. A termination can't be reversed, but it can be delayed by a week or so.

TalkativeJim Wed 03-Jul-13 12:36:12

So he does nothing... A sort of learned helplessness, right?

OP, what do you think he would say if you spelled out very bluntly that you cannot continue as you are and that you WILL terminate unless he can start doing his share?

Starting for example this weekend?

He doesn't know his routine etc. is bullshit isn't it?-on his part I mean. He's so divorced from the process that he doesn't even know what's happening at home when he's THERE on the weekends. But you could very easily give him nappies, wipes, food, milk and instructions and push them out of the door for 3 -4 hours.

What would your DP's response to that be? Would be actually welcome getting more involved, especially if you've just told him you're struggling? Or would he start to complain, start finding reasons why he can't step up?

Fantaforever Wed 03-Jul-13 12:39:45

I'm so sorry to hear that you are going through this but please think carefully.

I was in a similar situation to you 6 years ago, struggling with a one year old, no friends, far from family. I was also living in a slum like conditions on an inner city council estate and in an extremely unhappy marriage. I was so low that I convinced myself termination was the only way. My husband even told me he hoped I miscarried. I was so low, I wanted to die.

I didn't go through with a termination. The pregnancy was hard, the first couple of years were hard but things gradually got better. I look at my son now and I'm so thankful for all the joy he's brought into my life. I simply couldn't imagine my world without him in it.

ouryve Wed 03-Jul-13 12:45:57

You say your DP doesn't know the routine at weekends. In that case, you tell him, quite plainly, what needs doing. My DH does pull his weight, but if I need the stairs vacuuming or the outside windows cleaning, I tell him, because those are jobs I physically struggle with doing myself but he doesn't notice the need. If he doesn't know what's needed from the shops, I write him a list - and get very specific if I need to about brands, sizes etc.

I had a termination when I got pregnant and my son was only 4months old, I just knew I wouldn't be able to cope, My partner wanted the baby but when it came down to it he knew it was my choice. I felt nothing but relief when it was over. We went on to have a planned second child a few years later. Please talk to your partner, he sounds like he will understand, don't lie it will come out, lies are more likely to destroy your relationship than the termination.

WhiteBirdBlueSky Wed 03-Jul-13 12:53:46

He may be very emotional about you losing the baby naturally. How would you feel about dealing with that knowing it was a lie. It's another vote for telling him from me.

MadBusLady Wed 03-Jul-13 12:54:07

Yes, TalkativeJim I think you have called it right now that the OP has posted again.

Desperatelysad Your DP sounds frankly a bit useless and self-absorbed. You're not painting him in a bad light, he's doing that himself. He gets to be a daddy but someone else does all the actual work even at weekends - and he has the nerve to tell you you're just in shock!

If it would "kill him" for you to terminate, what about the way it would "kill you" to have another baby under current circumstances? Because I totally believe you when you say you cannot deal with the prospect. You sound completely desperate about it - I would be too. Your feelings deserve equal consideration to his! It's not heartbreaking (or it shouldn't be) to tell your DP straight that you just cannot cope with the set-up you two have at the moment.

DreamingBohemian is also right to say that not telling him is you taking all the responsibility again, just like your DS has been all your responsibility. You can't do this alone. One way or another, he needs to step up and stop drifting about expecting you to solve his problems. Because his children ARE his problem, as well as yours.

SignoraStronza Wed 03-Jul-13 12:54:25

OP, I've actually discussed this possibility with dh, as live in fear and dread about having another right now, before:
a. the 1 year old is sleeping anywhere but on or next to us.
b. she's at pre school
c. I've lost a couple of stone, as even at a normal bmi I find pg really hard as get so massive and swollen with water, plus will have to be another section and not sure I've let my body recover enough.
d. We've got our love life back and plenty of practice in (with, ideally the odd night away), which realistically will only happen with a.

I'm quite ambivalent about a third but agreed to it so can't renege on my word, whereas he'd be so positive about the idea.

We agreed that, in the unlikely event I became pg right now, I'd do exactly as you're doing and not tell him. I don't think I'd regret it in the slightest, but then, thankfully I've never been in your situation. He would be spared the potential upset and I'm such a cold, hard hearted person that I'd think of an early unwanted pg as nothing more than a cluster of cells and would be unlikely to have a shred of guilt (about what?!).

Pls consider your mental health in all of this. There is no obligation to tell your dh and add his views into the mix. Yes I understand the advantages of having two close together, but look at friends who do and the whole idea of it fills me with horror.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

springytata Wed 03-Jul-13 12:55:38

What stands out to me is not the pregnancy but the terror that you will have to do this alone.

I really do appreciate you feeling overwhelmed by the past year, that you see a break in sight, but this new pg scuppers all that. If you have put on 3st in weight comfort eating, then something is fundamentally not right in your life, very probably with your family set-up. I hope that isn't stating the obvious.

It just isn't good enough that you are doing this all alone. As Jim says, plenty of people do manual jobs and also pitch in at home. It seems to me that it is facing doing all this yourself that has had you panicking.

On the one hand your partner is useless with the practicalities (and that might be something to explore - you say you 'end up' doing everything yourself - why is that?) yet you feel you must honour your partnership. From what you're saying, he's not in it. He's not pitching in and easing the heavy load of a young family.

How would you feel if you weren't doing it on your own? Would that change things? Perhaps you both need to look at the structure of your relationship - more importantly, how you are feeling snowed under by the weight of having to do everything yourself. You sound exhausted.

I do think the comment about them being 'better off without you' is telling. We often say what we really mean without realising it. If you are eating a lot to the point that you have put on 3st in weight, I assume a lot of what you are eating is crap - which can drastically affect your mood. Crap really does make you feel like crap (speaking to myself here..). Anyway, that's one thing to tackle, but it sounds like there are some fundamental things that need tackling eg the structure of your relationship.

If you told him you want a termination because you feel you simply can't cope, would he be prepared to knuckle down to see what he could do to address the way you are feeling?

MrsWolowitz Wed 03-Jul-13 12:56:37

Don't lie to him.

It will destroy your relationship of you keep this massive thing a secret.

Signora why on earth do you think you can't 'renege' on having another baby? of course you can say you don't want another.

maddy68 Wed 03-Jul-13 13:06:28

Message withdrawn: posted on the wrong thread

maddy68 Wed 03-Jul-13 13:07:10

Ooh sorry. Wrong thread!! Lol

MorrisZapp Wed 03-Jul-13 13:15:26

I agree with meddie and colditz. I find that while MN is usually pro choice in theory, when it comes to anybody actually having a termination, suddenly its all 'but what if you regret it.

Of course many of us have had accidental pgs, had the baby and now can't imagine life without the kid. But that's irrelevant to the OP, if she terminates the pregnancy then there won't be a child.

So many times on here I read posts by women who are pregnant in the direst of circumstances and I'm inwardly thinking 'a termination might be a very good option' while everybody else is desperately trying to emphasise the paltry bright side.

Then I read ops from people saying I have x many kids and I can't cope. I dunno.

OP, I feel for you. I have a very supportive DP who does half the work at home, and if I became accidentally pg I would definitely terminate. Even with all the support in the world, having small kids can be very, very hard.

My practical advice is to tell your DP that you plan to have a termination, and be strong. It's your body, you have the right to do this.

AgathaF Wed 03-Jul-13 13:18:45

ds you said "I've just made such a mess of everything. They would probably be so much better off without me anyway."

Comments like that ring warning bells regarding post natal depression. If your GPs are not great, could you phone your HV and talk to her, not about the pregnancy, just about how you are feeling/coping. Then if she thinks you may have PND, perhaps you would feel better about seeing your GP.

Ultimately, your partner needs to step up and start participating in bring up your child. What does he say when you talk to him about this?

MadBusLady Wed 03-Jul-13 13:19:45

Good post, Morris.

Cherriesarelovely Wed 03-Jul-13 13:21:01

You sound really low OP and I can understand and relate to how you are feeling somewhat. We tried for a 2nd and very much wanted one. Though it had taken me a while to pluck up the courage due to pnd and a horrible birth with Dd. Then, almost as soon as I found out I was pregnant, I suddenly had a really, really strong feeling that I was carrying twins or more. I was absolutely terrified and adamant that I would not be able to cope with more than 1. I was actually terrified about the whole birth and baby bit to be honest but did want another child. It sounds ridiculous now but I really did go from being overjoyed to being pregnant to petrified and that was before the scan!

I miscarried very early on anyway so we never found out and we didn't have another child in the end which we both feel fine about despite being sad at the time.

What I'm saying is that I really, really do understand your apprehension about your pregnancy but I do wonder, if you were thinking of trying again fairly soon anyway, and your mum is due to come home next year you might be jumping the gun to terminate. I also think that not telling your DP the truth is a recipe for disaster. The chances of it coming out are great and he is likely to be devastated. Please DO discuss this with your Dp, you shouldn't be going through this alone.

flipchart Wed 03-Jul-13 13:23:36

I don't think that many if any are saying don't have an abortion Morris.
Just get to get support and don't rush headlong into it.

Consequences have to be thought out whether it is a planned pregnancy or an accidental one.

I have repeatedly said that abortion could be the best outcome but get support. Most others have more or less said that as well.

MorrisZapp Wed 03-Jul-13 13:26:06

Thanks madbus. I've had a termination myself, I didn't find it traumatic or even particularly emotional. I only needed one day off work.

When I hear people encouraging women to have more kids than they think they can cope with because it'll probably all be ok in the future, I think are you going to be there in the night to feed that child? Are you going to pay that woman's rent? Buy her clothes? Look after her kids so she can get something of herself back? Etc, etc. If not then you might be encouraging her to have a sincerely shit time.

Yes it will be a painful and heartbreaking conversation, I completely understand that, BUT the conversation will be even more painful and heartbreaking if you have it after the event. Because then there will be the deceit to deal with as well, the guilt at lying about something so big, and his anger at being lied to about something so important.

Please do let him know what you are going to do, I know it will be dreadful, but not half as bad as when he finds out at some stage, or the strain of stopping him from finding out what really happened.

Best of luck.

BabsAndTheRu Wed 03-Jul-13 13:30:19

I didn't think many had said dont terminate either, but after reading that op wants a two year age gap between kids it seems odd to me that you would terminate now when about to start trying to conieve again in a few months.

MorrisZapp Wed 03-Jul-13 13:30:37

But by urging all this extreme caution its the same as persuading her not to terminate. I'm assuming she already has thought it over and turned it inside out in her head.

Of course having a termination may have consequences, but so will going ahead with the pregnancy.

Telling her she isn't allowed any shred of doubt isn't supportive imo. She has massive doubts about the pregnancy, for very real and present reasons.

blueshoes Wed 03-Jul-13 13:32:42

Desparate, I hope I have not missed anything but why don't you think that your dh might also agree that this is not the best time to have baby no.2 and agree to a termination?

Could you put your energies into persuading him that this is the right decision?

MadBusLady Wed 03-Jul-13 13:34:39

I'm wondering if OP is currently revisiting the two-year age gap idea anyway. As she said, the last year has gone quickly and she has just about got through. Maybe a two year age gap sounds like ages but really isn't.

ALittleStranger Wed 03-Jul-13 13:38:11

I think an abortion sounds an entirely valid option. I do question the wisdom or ability to keep it quiet though. I just think it will come out at some point and that will be a huge challenge for any relationship.

I recommend Caitlin Moran's article on aborting her third child. It is excellent, especially for busting the emotional fall out myth.

DontmindifIdo Wed 03-Jul-13 13:39:58

I think you know what you can and can't deal with. If you really don't think you can cope with a second DC now, then you probably can't. If you need to wait until your eldest is at school, then so be it. an abortion might be the best option for all of you, not just you but your DS and your DH.

However, don't just pretend this is a miscarriage, talk to your DH. If you need more time that this Friday, you can always reschedule. Lies like this can destroy relationships, not the act itself, but the lie. Talk to him.

PearlyWhites Wed 03-Jul-13 13:40:49

You could very well end up doing everything on your own with your dc you have if your dh leaves you because of your deception.

BabsAndTheRu Wed 03-Jul-13 13:41:24

Could well be madbus, maybe hasn't worked out it would mean conceiving again in a few months.

flipchart Wed 03-Jul-13 13:42:03

All of us are speaking from our own perspectives.
I know I have four friends who have had abortions in the last 6 years. 3 of them were fine. Out of them 3 one was very poorly for a week or so. The other two breezed through.

The fourth one regrets it very much and often brings the topic of conversation round to it and get teary. ( the baby would be 3 now, it would be going to nursery and so on) We have tried to help and get her to get someone with more experience than us to talk. She was so adamament that the abortion would solve problems but in fact it created more. Maybe she was unlucky with her emotions, I don't know. The other women were emotionaly (and a part from a minor hitch) physically fine.

All I'm saying there is everyone acts different to something that they were so sure of.

Reading the OPs post it sounds like it was a knee jerk quick fix solution to a bad situation. That is why people are saying hold on! think clearly...and then go ahead if need be. But it seems desperate especially after saying she wants a 2 year age gap between her children and the baby is now 1 anyway.

NandH Wed 03-Jul-13 13:44:37

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

meddie Wed 03-Jul-13 13:47:34

woah NandH. unless you know how she got pregnant that comment is out of order.
My daughter is here because a condom split and the morning after pills I took the next day failed to do their job.
No contraceptive is 100% foolproof.

Viviennemary Wed 03-Jul-13 13:51:36

Nobody can tell you what to do. But so many people would find it extremely hard to keep this secret from their partner that it would ruin their relationship. I think people are only concerned that you make this decision and then regret it bitterly afterwards. If you are to continue as a couple then I for one think this should be a joint decision.

whateverwhoever Wed 03-Jul-13 13:52:07

It's a Woman's right to choose. I say this as a woman who couldn't have a termination. That was my personal choice. As other people have said these children are a blessing and I can't imagine being without them now. BUT

It sounds like you are overwhelmed, doing all the work and scared you will have a breakdown if you have two small children very close in age.

I don't think that's selfish I think that's self preservation. I think your dp is not going to listen when you ask him to understand or to help, and is going to expect you to have a child and do 100% of the looking after it. I think you will be verbally bullied and pushed into having a child. You possibly risk losing your relationship if you tell him, and becoming a single mother.

I hope that your dp is mature enough to LISTEN to you telling him that you won't be able to cope. I hope he will support you. I hope he will do more with the child he has.

Good luck OP. I for one am not judging you.

PearlyWhites Wed 03-Jul-13 13:53:06

A little stranger it is most definitely not a myth

ALittleStranger Wed 03-Jul-13 13:58:33

For some women. Others are fine. If you read the research it's the circumstances going into it and state of relationship which have the biggest impact.

MorrisZapp Wed 03-Jul-13 14:01:29

Flipchart, I'm sorry to hear that your friend is struggling with the aftermath of her decision.

However, you say the abortion created more problems. This is true, but having a baby creates problems too. Nobody can know what would have happened on the road not taken.

It's not a case of 'choose this difficult and irreversible option, or don't', its a case of right now, on balance, which of these two difficult, irreversible options looks least bad to you?.

5madthings Wed 03-Jul-13 14:01:35

Oh op, I feel for you, you sound so stressed but also very clear that you don't want/or can cope with another baby now and that is totally your choice, it is your body and your choice.

You don't have to tell your dh,legally its up to you, whether or not you can live with this secret is for you to know.

I think it would be best if you were honest with him and hopefully he would do the right thing and support you in your decision.

Please speak to someone, does the clinic have a counsellor, or phone a charity that offers help in these situations.

KeepCoolCalmAndCollected Wed 03-Jul-13 14:03:46

Morriszap
"Thanks madbus. I've had a termination myself, I didn't find it traumatic or even particularly emotional. I only needed one day off work."

You are very lucky Morriszap that you felt nothing.

Equally it can be extremely emotional and distressing for some people for the rest of their lives.

5madthings Wed 03-Jul-13 14:04:29

Oh and those making comments re contraception etc do sod off, the op was using contraception but frankly it doesn't matter.

And to the poster who said 'many women use abortion as birth control' ...no they most women do not,their may be s minority who do but please quit with the judge mental crap, the op doesn't need it right now, have some compassion.

Layl77 Wed 03-Jul-13 14:09:12

I understand he has a hard manual labour job but so do you with a one year old. Yours doesn't stop for you to have a sleep/ relax so its a crap excuse IMO. You're finding things tough can't you delegate a few nights bedtimes to dh?
You do need to talk to him though about the situation, and a third party too. A few days of it sinking in could masked things seem different. Weigh up pros and cons etc.

flipchart Wed 03-Jul-13 14:09:52

Morris
I just didn't want desprateandsad to make a decision thinking it was the only option.

I have said on every post of mine that an abortion could be the right answer for her.

I didn't want her to do it in a cloud of fog and panic and thinking she rocks up at the clinic on Friday, has the termination and everything is ok and she doesn't have to breath a word to DP and he will never find out.

She has come on here wanting different view points so it is wrong when other posters chide others for something that is posted. It is a forum that encourages opinions.

Potteresque97 Wed 03-Jul-13 14:20:14

op, such a sad situation for you - most rational people wouldn't judge you for either decision and we all understand what hard and lonely work being a mum can be at times. fwiw, you should discuss it with DH, he probably has some of the same fears but feels he has to react 'appropriately'. He must know how hard you've been finding it. Are you getting out to playgroups and meeting other mums? I resisted doing that for a long time but it does help to know that you aren't coping badly and to make friends and it passes the time while tiring the dc out. A network is more so important, a lot of what you say sounds a lot like loneliness.

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Wed 03-Jul-13 14:20:18

Let him help at the weekends; give him space to learn through mistakes.

Tell him about your decision (but be clear it is your decision, since it affects you a hundred times more than him) so he can come to terms with it - and hopefully support you in it.

Treat him like an adult. Allow him to be a partner with you in all of this.

If he then doesn't want to behave like one, at least you know... At the moment, you can't tell because you haven't given him a chance. Or that's how it seems from what you've said.

badguider Wed 03-Jul-13 15:12:18

Many women are not traumatised by termination - especially if it is very early (before any symptoms show, and before the fertilised egg has developed) and especially if they are really really sure it's the right decision.

This doesn't mean that all women are ok with it, some do fit it hard and that is worth knowing and bearing in mind, particularly if there's any question in the woman's mind whether it is the right decision or not.

But there's a bit of a myth that ALL women should find it traumatic and if they don't then they are somehow 'unfeeling'.

PearlyWhites Wed 03-Jul-13 15:35:43

Bad guider before the fertilised egg starts to develop Well a woman had better be very quick then, the heart is pumping blood through the vessels by day 29 after fertilisation. So thats about six days after a positive pregnancy test.

blueshoes Wed 03-Jul-13 15:40:50

Pearlywhites, do you think that last post of yours particularly helpful?

libertine73 Wed 03-Jul-13 16:11:36

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

badguider Wed 03-Jul-13 16:37:59

Pearly - at that point the 'circulation' is very rudimentary, it is misleading to call it a 'heart' and 'blood vessels' as they are unrecognisable as such.

And this is NOT helpful to the discussion.

BlueSkySunnyDay Wed 03-Jul-13 16:47:29

Yeah she quite clearly said "missed 2 pills so was using protection" but even if she didn't - its hard to know how that comment helped!

I'm not anti-abortion but the fact that you think this is such a bad thing to do seems to indicate that you will struggle to keep this a secret.

I think you need to have an honest discussion with your OH and tell him either things will need to change or you are not ready for another baby. For me to go behind his back like this would be way worse than the abortion itself.

The fact that you think they would be better off without you is a massive red flag for depression

GetStuffezd Wed 03-Jul-13 16:58:15

I had a termination years ago and told nobody, including the man involved. I opted for the medical procedure, and once I was home and it was all over, I felt nothing but relief. I have never once regretting having the termination but I do regret the fact the situation occurred.
However, I wasn't in a serious relationship with this man, so it's different from your situation with your husband.

There is no perfect solution, so you effectively have to pick the "least bad" option. I'm so sorry you're in such a situation and few people who've used this as an opportunity to stand on their soapboxes should be ashamed,

WhiteBirdBlueSky Wed 03-Jul-13 17:28:50

Yes, Zoe Williams has written interestingly about her abortions and the fact that she doesn't regret them at all. I don't see the abortion as the problem here, but the potential secrecy from your DH.

quietlysuggests Wed 03-Jul-13 19:14:56

Your son is now sleeping through the night from 7pm.
So by the time your baby is born you will have 9 months of all night sleeping.

gettingeasiernow Wed 03-Jul-13 19:28:00

I also think you are in line for much less pain in the long haul if you share it with dp now. It is his right, and you have not indicated that he does not love or care for you, so his reaction may surprise you. Secrets like this don't tend to end well.
I feel for you but please face it together.

Branleuse Wed 03-Jul-13 19:30:00

i dont regret the abortion I had years ago. My mum doesnt regret the one she had after me. I know loads and loads of women whove had abortions, I think only one regretted it after

GettingStrong Wed 03-Jul-13 19:52:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PearlyWhites Wed 03-Jul-13 20:09:31

I was answering a little stranger

GettingStrong Wed 03-Jul-13 20:12:48

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Nagoo Wed 03-Jul-13 20:30:09

I know I can't add much, but I am so sorry reading your posts OP sad.

If I thought my DP was capable of empathising with me, then I would tell him what I had decided.

If I thought he was fundamentally opposed to termination then I would do it without his knowledge in the circumstances you describe.

PearlyWhites Wed 03-Jul-13 22:11:33

20 days not 29

bumbleymummy Wed 03-Jul-13 22:45:42

Desperately, you do sound depressed from your posts. I think you need to speak to someone about that before you make such an important decision that could have such a longterm impact on your relationship and your own emotional health.

I think it's also worth remebering that you have 7/8 months before the baby arrives. It's not like someone is going to hand you one tomorrow and you'll have to cope with everything the way it is now. Think how much things have changed with your DS in the last 8 months. They really do change so quickly at that age. In 8 months time everything may be very different and you could be looking back wondering why you thought you couldn't cope.

ALittleStranger Wed 03-Jul-13 23:34:13

I was answering a little stranger

Really, I thought you were just posting misogynistic bullshit, because I couldn't see anything in my post that required an explanation of blood vessel development in response.

LetsFaceTheMusicAndDance Wed 03-Jul-13 23:42:48

What a horrible situation to be in OP.
I think you need to tell your DH though. The guilt around deceiving him could be really damaging to your relationship and to how you feel about yourself too.

Just from the little you wrote OP, it sounds like an abortion is absolutely the right decision.

Do you think your DH would be angry or upset by the news? If you think he would just add to the stress you are already under then don't tell him. But if you think he would be supportive, then do tell him. If you are already feeling down it would be so much healthier for you if you could be open and honest about what is going on.

vix206 Thu 04-Jul-13 09:26:29

OP I hope you're okay. Update us if you feel able. Lots of hands to hold.

RaspberrySchnapps Thu 04-Jul-13 09:50:26

oh desperatelysad my heart goes out to you.

this happened to my mum. she aborted a baby without my dads consent when I was 6 months old. she was grief stricken, had lost her own mum earlier in the year, probably had pmt and convinced herself she wouldn't survive the pregnancy. But he found out. she lies and said she had an illness but it was too late the damage was done. he couldn't handle it. he started drinking, slept around to punish her and then he left, they hate one another still, he has never forgiven her and over 40 years later the loss of this child is still palpable with them both. it destroyed them, it destroyed my little family before it really got started. a childhood with parents consumed by bitterness, rage and regret. because of a deception. all the trust was gone. My father has never forgiven her, she hates him and I am seen as the cause of making her unable to cope, so have silently shouldered the blame and the guilt. it ruined my childhood and has caused a lifetime of misery.

Once done it cannot be undone. for a couple of years of extra hard work the family could have been so different. I might have hated my sibling but the family would have at least been founded on honesty. It cant be built on a lie.

Talk to your DH. trust him. have faith in him until he gives you cause to doubt his judgement. tell him what you have told us. as a couple it's a family matter, you need his help and support. Even if you have a termination, it would be with his knowledge and that makes a world of difference. going it alone you risk losing that and the deceit could cripple you worse than the extra work a child could bring. if you can't talk to DH, talk to your HV or your own parents but please don't do this alone. My heart goes out to you, take care but get some RL help with this, or keep talking here.

springytata Thu 04-Jul-13 10:10:54

I'm so sorry your family went through that Rachel but, with all respect, it looks like you have toxic parents. What happened may have been awful for the marriage but the fallout doesn't match with a healthy response iyswim. I appreciate that something like this can be very hard for a couple to absorb but the fallout you describe really is not in proportion. I'm sorry you've had the blame put squarely on your shoulders. Awful. You were a baby fgs sad

cleoteacher Thu 04-Jul-13 10:11:38

sorry you're feeling like this. I don't think you're a bitch to be terminating your baby. You need to do what is right for your family.

But you state that your DP knows you are pregnant so you are going to have to tell him at some point. I would tell him before the termination and discuss with him how you are feeling this is a huge secret to keep. you have 9 months until the baby is born to have with your partner and 'have a life' as you say. I know many people who have made all their friends through baby/toddler groups so it may help with your loneliness and you may get a life in the way you least expected it, through your children. Plus, perhaps during your pregnancy your DP might find a job and then have more time for you and the family.

springytata Thu 04-Jul-13 10:11:53

Raspberry - sorry!

Glenshee Thu 04-Jul-13 10:21:01

Such permanent solution for temporary problems sad sad sad

Please, please seek help and support before you make such an important decision. Doing this alone is just crazy sad - how do you know your judgement isn't clouded by your tiredness, despair, and (potentially) depression? Will you be able to live with yourself afterwards, if you realise later that the decision was wrong?..

yegodsandlittlefishes Thu 04-Jul-13 10:24:45

OP, I'll second others in saying that a termination does sound like the right thing to do, but to make the decision when you have conflicted emotions is making it even harder on yourself. You are not a bitch! (Am I a bitch for having had an abortion? No. It was under difficult circumstances, but that isn't the point.)

I'd really recommend seeing a counsellor to talk through your feelings. I speak from experience, and if I had got the counselling when I was in your position it would have saved me years for conflicted emotion and sorting it out later! I needed to realise it was a choice, and it was ok to make that choice, for myself and the situation I was in at that time. I needed to understand what it meant to 'be gentle on myself' and what the consequences were of being hard on myself. It really is good to talk - I should have talked to someone. Well done for posting on here!

I hope you can find peace in your decision, whatever it is, and find some ways to make your life happier and healthier.

cleoteacher Thu 04-Jul-13 10:36:49

OP- we have gone for a childminder as they are cheaper- £4 ph. You say you can only afford two days nursery fees for DS, perhaps a childminder you could afford more? Then you would have more time to yourself or with your new DC.

I know what you mean about getting DH to help out. My DH is quite good at helping out but really relies on me to get everything sorted so he just has to feed him or take him out. I am about to go away for a weekend (for the first time since DS who is 6 months old was born) and he wanted me to de-frost all the food before hand, have it all cut up and made and have all the bags packed for DS! I said I would have it all available and clean in the house but not de-frosted or packed and that he needs to use his own initiative. I often end up doing things because I know what works and worry that he won't do it properly. But I have begun to let go of this control and let him do it even if it's not the 'right' way or not the way I would do it.

I think you need to slowly start doing the same. Make it clear to him if he wants the DC you will need his help. Slowly start getting him to do things for your DS (I started getting hubby to do the night routine so eventually I could go out, then the morning feed before work, now sterilising bottles and sorting out the night/morning feeds) Then he had DS for a couple of hours when I went out, then half and day and now a weekend. If you are going to keep the baby start doing this gradually over time so he is able to help out and for yourself you can let go and go and get a life.

I would also encourage DP to get a job and perhaps make this something you really want to happen if you have DC. Easier said than done though.

Glenshee I think 'such a permanent solution for temporary problems' is a fitting line for suicide, but not abortion. She can have another baby, or adopt, whatever, in the future.

If she's depressed and not ready to have another child it's very unfair to try and put a guilt trip on her. It sounds like she ay find it hard to live with herself if she goes trough with the pregnancy and that is the only issue right now. Saying that it's best to make herself miserable now, in case the decision to abort might make her miserable in future is very silly. We have a real problem which OP is very responsibly sorting out, and your imagined future problem. Do we really need to discuss which is the important one?

springytata Thu 04-Jul-13 11:34:33

I thought that if you were conflicted about a termination, staff insist on (in-house) counselling? YOu say you have an appointmtnet on Friday, which suggests staff don't have concerns about you - have you been honest with them? Sorry for q's. HOpe you're ok today xxx

libertine73 Thu 04-Jul-13 12:28:30

You alright OP?

KeepCoolCalmAndCollected Thu 04-Jul-13 12:51:49

Glenshee - Those were very wise words indeed.

PicardyThird Thu 04-Jul-13 13:02:19

OP, I don't think any of us can tell you what the right thing for you to do is, for or against. That's not our role. We are not you. Anything we say will be too coloured by our own feelings and, in many cases, experiences.

It's true that the decision is fundamentally yours. But I agree that you cannot keep this from your dp. Really you can't. You need to sit him down and spell out to him that you are worried about coping, and losing your self you were just getting back, to the point where you are seriously considering termination. That if he wants you to go forward with this pregnancy he needs to shoulder his part of the domestic load, and make it possible for you to do a little work for yourself somehow. Perhaps you need to take him with you to a counselling appt at one of the family planning services so you can say all this in front of a third party.

bumbleymummy Thu 04-Jul-13 13:20:17

I'm a bit shocked by how many people are coming on and saying 'abortion sounds like the right choice'. I really don't think anyone is in a position to make that judgement except desperatelysad herself. If anyone tried to say it was 'the wrong choice' they would be jumped on immediately!

Sorry KeepCool I don't asgree. The OP wasn't asking for advice on whether she should terminate or not, the termination is booked! It's patronising to assume an adult doesn't know their own mind. She said she wouldn't be able to cope, can't we just respect her decision on that?

It's only my opinion, of course, but I feel that having a child against your better judgement and then spending many years regretting it, is potentially far more devastating than regretting the abortion of a clump of cells, which is what it is at this stage.

*agree

GettingStrong Thu 04-Jul-13 13:52:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

yegodsandlittlefishes Thu 04-Jul-13 13:57:01

^ I really don't think anyone is in a position to make that judgement except desperatelysad herself. ^

That is a good point bumbleymummy

desperatelysad Thu 04-Jul-13 14:07:21

Thankyou for your replies, i am reading them all even though not posting much. I tried to talk to dp last night about how i felt, he still sees me as in a state of shock which i can understand as when i found out i was pregnant with ds i spent the first 3-4 months crying and worrying, and so he probably sees the way i am now with him and know exactly what he needs, when he needs things, what hes crying for etc. Except he cant understand that this time there will be 2 of them and the fact of the matter is i am certainly not ready for that just yet. We discussed it for a while and i mentioned that we hadnt even spoken about trying for another baby and that this was just a major accident that didnt need to drag us down, we could still do it the way we wanted to in a few more years if we wanted. I didnt actually come out with the words but i think he has a more educatated grasp of how im losing myself and not really managing my new found stay at home status.

If this hadnt of happened we probably wouldnt have tried for another baby for at least another 2-3 years once we were both a bit more settled, i had a job/money he had a better job so he could be home more. I see this as a clump of cells at the moment, i dont see it as a baby, apart from the tiredness i dont have any emotional attachment to it just now. If i went through with this i cannot see any way that i wouldnt be left struggling with 2 rather than 1 baby right now. Its just so not the right time for us to have another now.

I do feel more confident in my decision today than yesterday, I can see a way out (horrible term of phrase, but couldnt think of anything more fitting) I may be completely selfish in putting myself and my own mind first, but so be it. I can live with being selfish and caring for the family i have right now, choosing when to have another baby in the future when im mentally ready and prepared, rather than having something sprung on me with no choice, regretting it and struggling even more. I do appreciate all your messages though, thankyou.

Glenshee Thu 04-Jul-13 14:22:20

well done for talking to your DP
does he support your decision, given your explanation?

AgathaF Thu 04-Jul-13 14:29:12

You're not being selfish, you're trying to do your very best for your family and yourself. You have to look after yourself in order to care for the child you already have.

onetiredmummy Thu 04-Jul-13 14:42:14

Well done OP, what did your dp say?

(& hopefully he saw that he could be doing more as well, with routines & actually being at home.)

I don't think you're selfish, not one bit. I think you're in charge of your own fertility & you have the intelligence to make a rational decision, which I applaud.

IhearyoubutIcantfeelit Thu 04-Jul-13 14:48:51

So sorry to hear what an agonizing decision you are oing through. Ou are not a bitch or a bad mum, please see a GP to give you guidelines how to cope and deal with depression, I really think you are depressed judging by your posts. It's good you have spoken to your dp, let him into your thoughts. An abortion is not an easy decision for anybody but going it in secret and alone is horrile and will take a toll on you, even before you consider your dps feelings. Wishing you a lot of strength for tommorow. I have been where you are and now have lovely dc. Take care of yourself. X

Thumbwitch Thu 04-Jul-13 14:56:24

Glad you had a chat with him but did you actually tell him what you plan to do? Did he accept it?

MadBusLady Thu 04-Jul-13 14:56:50

You are not being selfish. You have to put your own mental health first, otherwise it affects you all including your DS. I'm sorry he is not listening to you. sad

MadBusLady Thu 04-Jul-13 14:57:29

(He meaning DP, not your DS!)

So glad you stop to your DH it's important to keep talking. Are you sure he knows exactly what you means and if so, what did he say about it?

I know it's really difficult but to not tell someone is just wrong. It's his baby too. I know people say it's a bunch of cells and all that (depends how far along you are too, to be honest) and that it is a quick procedure but there is a lot of emotion behind it. The chances are whichever you do, you will be upset with your decision, as is often the case in these situations.

But the father does have a right to know because it's his growing child in there. Just because it's in the mothers body doesn't mean it's only her choice. I wouldn't say a child is only the responsibility of the parent it lives with, neither would I say it's just about the woman in this case. I think that's a very messed up ideal. Of course the partner needs to take the woman's feelings into account and hopefully any partner who truly cares about the welfare of their partner will ultimately support them in their decision, although it is hard.

I hope you talk it through and that he can see that it is an option for you. You can get back from this hopefully and the most important thing is to be honest as otherwise the relationship will be hidden in lies and secrecy and then it's all just an act - another thing you'd have to try and balance.

bumbleymummy Thu 04-Jul-13 15:49:50

SingingSilver

"It's patronising to assume an adult doesn't know their own mind. She said she wouldn't be able to cope, can't we just respect her decision on that?"

Would you be saying that if she was contemplating suicide?

Also, 'clump of cells' isn't really an accurate description of this stage of development. Although I suppose we could all technically be classed as that.

KeepCoolCalmAndCollected Thu 04-Jul-13 16:59:22

SingingSilver
It's neither here nor there whether you agree with my opinion or not. Everyone, not just you, is entitled to their opinion, and getting back to simple basics, is why people such as OP come on here asking for advice.

You might come accross as very confident and upfront, but I think you sound very naive and very shallow.

Amrapaali Thu 04-Jul-13 17:05:18

OP, don't do it. That's all I have to say.

Dededum Thu 04-Jul-13 17:08:11

Hi

I had an abortion after two boys. I told DH, but it was my decision and he supported it.

I was a 100% sure, I forgave myself before I did it. No doubts on the day, but I still take some time on December 14 to remember the baby I did not have. I knew that if I did it I would not have another baby in the future.

Good luck, and forgive yourself. We just make choices, there is no good or bad choice.

bobbywash Thu 04-Jul-13 17:18:11

OP well done for telling him how you feel, now if you haven't tell him what you have planned.

That is just as important as explaining your feelings. I can understand his view if you were equally as emotional in Pregnancy 1. The easiest thing is possibly just to sit him down and read him your opening post, that sums up everything in a way anyone could understand.

TeeBee Thu 04-Jul-13 17:34:44

OP, I respect your decision. If you want support, pm me. I have been where you are now. I got through it and I'm fine.

Dackyduddles Thu 04-Jul-13 17:48:47

Op ill be here too, if you want to talk. All the best x

Glenshee Thu 04-Jul-13 18:01:18

I think this story has some similarities to yours, OP - Pain of a Secret Abortion

OP it sounds like you are making a sensible decision.

But regardless of whether you are pg this time next week or not, I do think you need to get two kinds of help over the next months/year:

1. From DP, actively co-parenting. This will become easier for him as DS gets older and therefore more "fun" as well as taking the physical and emotional burden from you. He might get things wrong - but don't we all? If he is a sensible human being he won't put DS in danger; they just might annoy each other or make a mess.

2. With the thoughts you've described here which posters have suggested are indicative of depression. You say you think things have crept up on you; you can get help to get them to creep away again.

Continuing with this pregnancy or not will actually have very little effect on either of those two "problems", which need attention regardless.

Good luck OP x

Spiritedwolf Thu 04-Jul-13 18:18:10

Does your DH understand yet that you are having an abortion tomorrow? Telling him must be a hard thing to contemplate doing, especially when he is trying to reassure you that he believes in your ability to cope with more than one right now because he thinks that you plan to continue the pregnancy. You may well find that he is supportive if a little disappointed when you explain what you are going to do, and why.

I think that not telling him until afterwards or pretending that you have miscarried, would be much more damaging to your relationship than the abortion itself. I suspect you are very much decided that you want the abortion, but are worried that if you tell him before that he'll talk you out of it. In this case, could you tell him in the prescence of a supportive 3rd party? (GP, counsellor, friend, relative etc).

You havent commented (as far as I can see) about people's concerns about your mental health/possible pnd. I hope you realise, that for most of us who are pro-choice, it is not your decision to have an abortion that is causing us concern, it is how overwhelmed you sound with motherhood, how much you seem to be having to do alone, including making this decision alone, and how down you seem "they'd be better off without me". Even if/when you have an abortion, it would still be good for you to speak to someone HV/GP etc, about your mood and lack of support. The danger of going ahead with the abortion without doing this first is that you will feel even more justified in feeling bad about yourself because you have lied to your P.

Having an abortion when you aren't ready to have another child - emotionally or practically is not a terrible thing. Abortions aren't the preserve of teenagers or career focused women, many mums just aren't prepared for another baby also have them. Its okay.

But you deserve to make this decision with support - whether from your partner or a professional counsellor. You don't sound like you are in a great place at the moment, and that doesn't mean that abortion isn't the right choice, but putting yourself in a position where you do it secretly, perhaps without telling the service offering it that you are feeling so bad so that they cannot offer you appropriate support, and feeling that you are doing an "unforgiveable" thing to your P... it just has the potential to make you feel so much worse than it has to.

I don't know if you are depressed, but you do sound low, and I know that depression tends to make you think in "all or nothing" terms, and make you feel that you have to do things all by yourself. Its really not a case of you must have a baby you can't cope with or a secret abortion with no support. Please speak to someone about this.

The Samaritans and Marie Stopes are just two sources of support. Your P, GP, HV, family and friends are other potential sources.

If you do go ahead with the abortion secretly - please talk to the clinic about counselling and/or see your GP/HV about possible depression.

And for the eejits on the thread who think that if a woman gets pregnant she couldn't have been using contraception, you do know that even when contraception is used effectively it isn't 100% effective, right? biscuit

Spiritedwolf Thu 04-Jul-13 18:22:41

cross posted with Horry who has given very sensible advice x

MadBusLady Thu 04-Jul-13 18:25:46

I watched Glenshee's link, it's religious guilting propaganda just so you all know.

MorrisZapp Thu 04-Jul-13 18:35:05

I assumed as much madbus, as soon as I saw the Republican hairstyle. Not in the spirit of support, in my view. Thanks for the warning.

Op, you sound strong. I hope you find the strength to share your decision with your DP. If you don't, you are still in charge of your own actions. I wish you luck, and I hope you're ok.

Glad you talked about it op. at least there will be no secrets between you.

Of course it is your body, and yes your decision too, but not telling him and trying to pretend you've had a miscarriage now won't be possible because he knows your feelings, so hopefully, even though he will be sad about it, he will support you and look after you.

Sending best wishes thanks

libertine73 Thu 04-Jul-13 19:18:17

Please tell him love, I don't think you have, and you will be on your own tomorrow, that worries me, what about your Mum or a friend? Is there no one you can talk to about this? Help you through it?

AgathaF Thu 04-Jul-13 19:49:10

Glenshee I haven't clicked on your link, I have no time for religious propaganda and particularly not on a thread like this. I cannot believe your insensitivity though. I so hope the OP doesn't click on it.

GetStuffezd Thu 04-Jul-13 20:04:37

And the links down the side are vile.

ShoeWhore Thu 04-Jul-13 21:25:19

What spiritedwolf said.

Wishing you lots of wisdom and strength OP to talk to the people you need to talk to, get the help it sounds like you might need and make the right decision for you and your family.

katieks Thu 04-Jul-13 21:58:13

Sympathy from me! I felt this way when I accidentally fell pregnant with my 2nd when the oldest was 4 months old. Totally overwhelmed. I didn't want another one so soon. I discussed my worries with DH, me in tears almost hysterical because it was ME who did all the hard childcare work and he ended up shouting at me to have an abortion. I'm glad that he was the first one to mention this. I had been thinking of it, but couldn't bring myself to do it or bring it up. The main, and almost only, reason I didn't do it was what if something went wrong and I couldn't have children in the future.

It wasn't the best way to discuss things but perhaps if you discuss it with him and he knew how much distress this was causing you he'd be the one to suggest termination in the interests of your wellbeing? That way it would be a shared decision.

flipchart Thu 04-Jul-13 22:00:20

Are you still going ahead tomorrow?
Whatever happens I wish you and your DP well
X

kilmuir Thu 04-Jul-13 22:04:29

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

MorrisZapp Thu 04-Jul-13 22:07:54

I've reported kilmuirs post

5madthings Thu 04-Jul-13 22:15:06

Op well done in talking to your dh, I really hope he supports you in making the choice that is right for you. It is your body and your choice xxx
And its not a baby, its a bundle of cells. It has the potential to become a baby, but its up to the op to choose, she doesn't need emotional crap from random on the internet fgs.

This is your choice op, I hope you are OK xx

Nottalotta Thu 04-Jul-13 22:22:46

There is always a chance OP that you won't feel guilty, won't regret it and it won't destroy your marriage. Not everyone who has a termination is consumed by guilt. Because it was the right decision for them. Some people barely give it a second thought, harsh as it may sound. I do hope though that you speak to a counsellor before your final decision. Well done for speaking up, it must have taken real guts.

Vivacia Thu 04-Jul-13 22:23:17

I'm also relieved to hear you've both spoken to your husband and are feeling more clear.

Fwiw I would tell (not ask) my partner that I was terminating the pregnancy and explain why. He would support my decision.

(Kilmuir(sp?) I also reported your post).

bumbleymummy Thu 04-Jul-13 22:30:41

Can we please stop with the 'bundle of cells'. Unless you are willing to class all of us as 'bundles of cells' it really isn't an accurate description of this developmental stage. Lets not try to minimise what is being discussed. If a decision to terminate is being made it needs to be an informed choice not one based on an imaginary perception.

Glenshee Thu 04-Jul-13 22:33:07

Madbus, AgathaF - the video is not religious propaganda. It's about a woman who made an abortion, when her son was 3, because she felt that she has only started to reclaim her life back and wasn't ready for the second child. She talks about feelings of guilt and shame (which are not at all unusual, however hard the circumstances leading up to the decision are), and how she struggled to move on. Yes, she is religious, but in this story I don't feel it's all that relevant - except to illustrate that you do need loads of support following abortion. She has chosen Christianity to cope with it but, clearly, it's not the choice that would suit everyone. I don't think you could cope on your own though.

Great posts from Horry and Spiritedwolf - I hope they help OP see things more clearly, and separate the pregnancy/abortion decision from other issues which need addressing anyway. Neither continued pregnancy nor abortion will move OP any closer to resolving problems with DP and her well-being.

I really hope that something will change between now and tomorrow that would give OP more time to think and seek appropriate help and support in RL.

5madthings Thu 04-Jul-13 22:36:04

The op is six weeks pregnant, fgs it is a bundle of cells it MAY just have true start of a heartbeat, it is not a baby, its an embryo at t very early stages of development.

The heart doesn't even have four chambers yet, the 'baby' is the size of a pea and looks like a tiny jelly bean. So yes its still pretty Mich a bundle of cells.

5madthings Thu 04-Jul-13 22:39:13

Actually other sites say it is the sozeof a lentil, so smaller, either way it is not a baby, it could potentially grow to become one bit that isn't certain by any means.

Vivacia Thu 04-Jul-13 22:41:06

I really hope that the OP gets the support and advice she needs to make a decision that gives her peace of mind.

MorrisZapp Thu 04-Jul-13 22:44:33

I had a termination then went home to my flat and read Bridget Jones's Diary and stayed in bed for a bit. I wasn't quite myself, but I wasn't in need of support either. I chatted to friends about it and they probably hugged me when they saw me, I can't remember.

I'm sorry the Christian lady had a difficult time, but research shows that most women do not feel traumatised after terminating a pregnancy.

bumbleymummy Thu 04-Jul-13 22:46:50

I wasn't calling it a baby but it's not 'a bundle of cells' either.

bumbleymummy Thu 04-Jul-13 22:50:30

'Most women' does not mean 'all women'. No one here can know how desperatelysad will feel. You can't say 'you'll be fine' without knowing anything about her. Tbh I get the impression that some MNers are a bit too keen to project their own feelings/justifications about their own abortions onto others.

Glenshee Thu 04-Jul-13 22:52:56

I think if you're contemplating an abortion then you just have to buy into the 'bundle of cells' mentality to cope with it.

To me - it's life we're talking about.

Loulybelle Thu 04-Jul-13 22:53:12

OP, whether you choose to abort or not is entirely up to you, but i hope your honest with OH about it, because he may not forgive if it comes out, and what your doing to help your family, may not mean much in the future.

Also you really need to see a doctor about your depression, you making this decision while depressed, you may regret it when your more focused and together.

MorrisZapp Thu 04-Jul-13 23:01:47

No, I can't say she'll be fine. But I can't say anybody having a baby will be fine either.

The OP hasn't asked for help with her decision to terminate btw. She wants help with how to handle her decision whether or not to tell her DP. She has already made her decision about the termination.

GettingStrong Thu 04-Jul-13 23:05:02

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ChippingInWiredOnCoffee Thu 04-Jul-13 23:08:21

<<HUG>>

Have you done anything about seeing (a nice) Doctor? I think that should be your first step.

You sound very much like you have PND and I don't think you should be making such a big decision (both with regard to your pregnancy and the result a termination could have on your relationship) until you have started to get that sorted out.

It is your body and it is entirely your right to make this decision. Your DP doesn't sound as though he has been very helpful, which is a shame. Lots of men work long hours but are very hands on when they are home, it sounds like he's taken the easy road and 'left it to you' - which isn't on. Irrespective of what you do re this pregnancy you need to get that sorted straight away - he might be 'tired' but so are you, when he's home he doesn't get to relax while you do all the house/baby stuff - he does his share - end of. That said, this is still a big thing you are considering doing and it may come between you if he is unable to get his head around it - and you can't blame him for that. It is a risk you have to take knowingly.

<<HUG>>

5madthings Thu 04-Jul-13 23:15:22

At the moment its a potential life. The one person who is alive is the op. Who is suffering and may suffer greatly if she continues with a pregnancy she doesnt want. I value and respect her and her right to bodily autonomy over that of what is essentialy at this stage a bundle of cells.

I respect a womans right to terminate at any stage as i value her as an autonomous individual who has the right to bodily autonomy.

Whatever happens tomorrow, OP, I'll be thinking of you and offering a hand to hold.

twofingerstoGideon Thu 04-Jul-13 23:33:27

Bumbleymummy do you think you could have a bit of respect for the OP, who has made her decision, whether you like it or not? And you, Glenshee. If you want to have a more generalised debate about the pros and cons of abortion this is not the thread for it - please go and start your own thread - perhaps on 'feminist chat' forum.

Mosman Thu 04-Jul-13 23:53:17

Thinking of you op, you will be fine x

libertine73 Fri 05-Jul-13 01:29:49

Yes, I'll be thinking of you too,I sincerely hope you don't get guilt tripped by some of the derailing posts on this thread, this is not Debate about the rights and wrongs of abortion.

A mother who would end up mentally ill if she carried on with an unwanted pregnancy would not a good mother make.

Come back when you can and let us know how you are, plenty of people will be here to support you x

differentnameforthis Fri 05-Jul-13 03:16:44

It is perfectly possible to love a child yet at the same time feel hugely conflicted because you either did not really want that child, or you really didn't want a child at that point in your life but, for whatever reasons, were unable to exercise your own choice. It is not a good place to be, it is a lonely place to be, and it takes a lot to try to grasp back some control over your own life whilst also caring for said child and hoping that they will not be affected

I am said child. You can see my story on here if you want to read it, but for the sake of the op, I won't derail the thread. It did affect me. I don't talk to my mum, haven't for almost 20yrs. She couldn't hide it. I never felt one moment of love from her.

OP, I support you, because that is all it is up to anyone to do right now. Do what you have to do, I have been there (story again on here), but with the full support of my dh (and no, he didn't really agree with it, but he knew it was my body that would suffer, so gave his full support). No regrets.

Your story brings a tear to my eye, you can't be forced into having the baby, not when it all feels so wrong.

You are NOT pathetic
You are NOT a bitch.

Your reasons ARE valid.

PM me if you want to talk.

Be kind to yourself.

EMUZ Fri 05-Jul-13 03:52:06

OP be very gentle on yourself if you go through with it. The hormone crash afterwards made me very down, and you sound low in your previous posts
I can't comment on your situation because mine was totally different. Physically the recovery for me was about 2 weeks

Guerrillacrochet Fri 05-Jul-13 04:34:30

Hi OP just a quick note to let you know I'm thinking about you and hope you're ok

vix206 Fri 05-Jul-13 06:59:42

Thinking of you today OP

Vivacia Fri 05-Jul-13 07:09:20

Thinking about you OP, wishing you well (and feeling grrr at the people twisting the thread to their own agenda).

AgathaF Fri 05-Jul-13 07:15:46

Hope it goes well today.

bumbleymummy Fri 05-Jul-13 08:00:48

5madtgings - it depends on what you define 'life' as really. If you believe in abortion until term though then it really doesn't matter if it's a 'bundle of cells' anyway.

In any case, I haven't said anything about whether or not she should have the abortion (unlike the shocking 'you're doing the right thing' posters!) As I said before, only the OP is in the position to know that.

I do think she needs to speak to someone about the possibility of depression before she makes any final decisions/takes action though. I've been there and I know how overwhelming things can seem when you feel that way. I made some ill-judged decisions back then because I just felt I couldn't cope and I do regret them now. At least they were fairly trivial/minor things. I just couldn't get things straight in my head. It was scary. I also think she needs to talk properly with her husband about this. She is going to need support regardless of her decision and trying to hide this is not going to make for a healthy relationship.

twofingerstoGideon Fri 05-Jul-13 08:20:28

Thinking of you, too, OP.

desperatelysad Fri 05-Jul-13 08:32:56

Thanks for all the messages, i really do appreciate the support, unfortunatly i couldnt dare tell my mum or any friends in rl, id be scared they just abandon me when i really dont need it right now so id prefer to keep it that way.

And for what its worth i really dont think ill feel too down about it after its happened, i appreciate all the caring advice and i may be completely wrong and something else happens but all im feeling when i think about it is a complete relief. Surely thats the right way to be thinking rather than what if..... If i was going back and forth in doing the right thing then id be really worried but im not. I can see more clearly than i have in weeks, this is so the right decision for me right now. It was never a question of whether to have one or not, it was more a just need to get everything out of my head out a bit so i could think straight.

I do appreciate all the advice though, the last time i saw a dr was at my 6 wk checkup, she asked how i was feeling, at the time i said i wasnt actually doing ok, was tired and emotionally drained, he laughed and asked what did i expect with a newborn. This was the same dr who when i had gone in overjoyed to tell him i was pregnant with my 1st child he asked me seriously - well i assume you will be keeping it then hmm. Ive never been back since, i do need to find a new dr. The hv also came out in the 2nd month, she asked me to do a questionnaire, did i feel lonely, did i think i was coping. At the time i filled it in honestly. I wasnt really good back then (believe it or not ive actually got better). She took it away and ive not heard off her since. so in the mean time ive muddled through wit the little help ive had and when dp comes home i go to the gym which i find more helpful that a box of antidepressants. But that is really the only time i get to myself. I know dp will help out more when hes a bit older and able to do more stuff, its not that he doesnt try and help, he just never knows how so i end up showing him then leaving him to it then the next time hes forgotten so i have to show him again. If its not that he tries to do something that leaves ds screaming and crying, take last night for example, ds goes to bed at 7, he knows this, the only time he will wake up through the night is if he wants his dummy or hes kicked the blanket off, i usually go in throw the blanket back over or put in his dummy, hes back asleep within a minute or 2.

Dp goes in to do it, gets really anal about the blanket not being tucked in right, spends an age putting ds straight then tucking him in tightly he wakes him up in the process, puts in a dummy and walks out which leaves ds screeching for what seemed like forever. He then gets back into bed next to me and lies there wide awake saying i dont know whats the matter with him - well err you just woke him up by prodding him and poking him with a blanket when he was perfectly happy lying across from side to side. So what should of been a 30 second thing turned into 45 minutes of trying to settle ds back but i made him do it which is why it took so long. sorry im rambling, but i do hope that 1 day he will just be able to mind him on his own without me having to remind him he needs to eat or whatever. Dp does very much need to grown up a lot in that respect and be a dad rather than act the same age as ds!

Guerrillacrochet Fri 05-Jul-13 08:36:55

bloody hell Bumbly give it up will you? This is not the place to discuss opinions on abortion!
Yes I think the OP should get some additional support, but actually more because of her comments about her family being better off without her, and her feelings of being unable to cope, comfort eating etc.
There is a possibility that she could regret an abortion but equally may regret not going through an abortion and ending up having an unwanted child. There are posters her saying what that feels like and it sounds shit to me, for everyone involved.
OP I hope you can continue to use this thread for support, whatever you decide.

MorrisZapp Fri 05-Jul-13 08:37:29

So glad you came back op. You sound confident and as calm as could be expected given the difficult circumstances. I'll be thinking of you today, same as this lot^. Be kind to yourself xx

BabsAndTheRu Fri 05-Jul-13 08:39:34

Why don't you write down instructions for your DP, do it like a timetable. Might help.

Guerrillacrochet Fri 05-Jul-13 08:41:06

Morning OP, X-post with you. Also had a crap night with DD so am a bit zzzzzzzzz this morning!
You sound calmer though, which is great. Does your DP know what's happening today? Did your last discussion with him get that deep?
Anyway, everyone is here for you.

5madthings Fri 05-Jul-13 08:43:41

You sound clear that you are doing the right thing for you and your circumstances, I hope all goes smoothly.

Does your dh know? This is your choice but I do think it will be a horrible secret to carry.

Whatever happens I hope you are OK and I hope your dh bucks his ideas up and starts to be more supportive.

bubble Now isn't the place to get into an pro-choice debate. This is true ops choice, not yours if you are pro life/pro-forced birth then that is your choice but other women feel differently and it has to be an individuals choice.

MadBusLady Fri 05-Jul-13 09:00:47

Pfft, well I'm a cynical old mare but I think it sounds a lot like deliberate helplessness on his part so that you'll do it. Presumably your DP can dress himself, make a cup of tea, remember when to have lunch, other elementary things. There's no real reason why he can't understand and memorise new tasks - and if he's been like this for two years I wouldn't hold out any hope of him spontaneously getting better at it, I think he'll just find new ways to flap helplessly. He can't even mind his own son on his own??

But that's a battle for another day, I guess. Good luck today, OP, you do sound very clear that it's the right thing for you. And I'm sorry your mental health support has been so rubbish, your questionnaire should certainly have put up glaring great flags!

AgathaF Fri 05-Jul-13 09:23:03

You have a manchild there for a partner. I hope he grows up quickly.

To help him on his way, is it possible for you to go out for a few hours on a weekend regularly so that he has to get on with it? He might do it differently to you, but he would have to do it and learn on the job.

Does he understand that his fussiness over getting blankets/child/dummy straight etc is leading to him being awake for longer? Have you explained that in the cold light of day, as it were?

You sound clearer and happier with your decision today. That's good.

thistlelicker Fri 05-Jul-13 09:30:50

Holding your hand for today op thanks

bumbleymummy Fri 05-Jul-13 09:35:48

I am not discussing my opinion on abortion guerrilla. Give over!

libertine73 Fri 05-Jul-13 09:40:55

Glad you're sure about your decision OP.

Not so glad you have decided to not tell your partner your intentions, and you don't mention that in your last post. I really think that would be a big mistake, but it's your choice.

Good luck for today love flowers

KeepCoolCalmAndCollected Fri 05-Jul-13 09:43:28

5madthings & Guerrilla
Suggest you read bumbleyummy's post again properly. I don't think you are getting where she is coming from whatsoever.

bumbleymummy Fri 05-Jul-13 09:49:02

Same to 5madthings. 'Pro-forced birth' hmm don't be ridiculous. I haven't said that the OP shouldn't have an abortion but nor have I said that she should have one which tbh I think is just as bad but you seem to find perfectly acceptable.

desperatelysad - your doctor sounds appalling! Definitely get a new one ASAP. I'm also surprised that the HV didn't get back to you. They're almost over cautious where I am about picking up on signs of PND. You definitely would have raised flags.

I'm still concerned about you making this decision in the frame of mind that you seem to be in but I do remember that feeling of trying to take control of something. You still haven't made it clear whether your husband knows it not. Please tell him. Even if you don't regret the abortion itself you may regret that and it could have long term consequences for your relationship like an earlier poster mentioned. For some reason that person's experience was brushed aside while other people's experiences are being taken as gospel.

bumbleymummy Fri 05-Jul-13 09:49:56

Thank you keepcool.

MorrisZapp Fri 05-Jul-13 09:50:16

Bumbleymummy, in your post at 10.30 yesterday you sound as though you don't approve of OPs choice at all, you tell us not to minimise what is being discussed.

MorrisZapp Fri 05-Jul-13 09:52:42

Bumbley, the OP has already made her decision. So it's perfectly fair to say that it sounds like the right decision. She has not asked us to say if her decision is right or not, as she is past that stage.

Guerrillacrochet Fri 05-Jul-13 09:57:08

<goes back and has a re-read> Nope, I think I have read it properly, but thanks for the suggestion.

Branleuse Fri 05-Jul-13 09:59:15

good luck today. Thinking of you xx

Good morning OP. I'm glad you feel confident in your decision, whatever any of the strangers on this thread may think about the rights and wrongs. I'm glad you're feeling less desperate despite your bad night.

Ask to see your hv again and do the questionnaire again. Say you've been having bad thoughts or feeling very down and you want to know if it's the beginnings of something more serious than just having a bad patch. Six weeks post-natal is a very long time ago now, and for what it's worth I'm appalled by your GP's attitude.

twofingerstoGideon Fri 05-Jul-13 10:17:28

So, Bumbley, if that's the case and you're not here to just post your usual anti-abortion drivel, how about offering the OP some support? Given that she's made her mind up, your postings about 'not just a bundle of cells...' are pushing a particular agenda. At least have the honesty to admit that and move away from this thread, where support is being offered to someone who is in a difficult position.

OP, I hope you are okay and getting the help you need.

bumbleymummy Fri 05-Jul-13 10:19:13

Morris, saying that you think describing a foetus as 'a bundle of cells' is not an accurate description and is minimising is not the same as disagreeing with someone's decision. We aren't talking about getting a wart removed here.

I also disagree that saying 'it's the right decision' is ok because what if the OP starts to wobble and then thinks 'All those MNers said I was doing the right thing so it must be right' . In any case, most people are disagreeing with her decision not to tell her husband about it, just as I am.

bumbleymummy Fri 05-Jul-13 10:23:06

Two fingers - I have not pushed any 'anti abortion' agenda on this thread at all and I have given the OP support. Quite frankly I'm shocked that so many women think it's ok to make this decision while thinking that she may be suffering from depression and recommending that she sees her GP/HV. It's baffling!

twofingerstoGideon Fri 05-Jul-13 10:25:41

You are beyond the pale, Bumbley. Can you please credit the OP with the intelligence to know her own mind?

bumbleymummy Fri 05-Jul-13 10:27:10

Are you so scared that someone might think you're not pro-choice that you throw logic and common sense out the window?

libertine73 Fri 05-Jul-13 10:33:00

bumbly her last post was very clear and well thought out.

Please stop now, you're not helping.

vix206 Fri 05-Jul-13 11:45:50

Why has this turned into an attack on bumbley? Its not helpful to the OP and I can't for the life of me see anything unhelpful about what bumbley has said.

Glenshee Fri 05-Jul-13 11:50:02

Disappointing to see personal attacks on this thread.

OP, thanks for such detailed update. Please don't give up on seeking support in RL. If your Mum or DP aren't the right people, look elsewhere. Going through this alone makes it more difficult than it has to be.

bumbleymummy Fri 05-Jul-13 12:33:54

libertine, her last post made it even more clear that she could have been missed for PND by her sorry excuse for a doctor/non-follow up from the HV. She also hasn't clarified whether or not she has told/is going to tell her husband. Most people on this thread have agreed that she really should tell him. I really can't see how not telling him is going to end well for their relationship. Not to mention what might happen if she has complications/problems afterwards? Who is going to be looking after her/watching for any complications?

This whole 'respect the OP, she knows her own mind' when most people seem to agree that she could be suffering from some form of depression and needs to speak to someone about it is just baffling me. If her depression was leading her
to contemplate suicide would you be saying the same thing?

OP, I'm genuinely worried about you. You need to speak to someone. You may very well still come to the same conclusion but at the very least you would have a support network. I really think you need to tell your husband.

MrsWolowitz Fri 05-Jul-13 13:34:47

Bumbley you are talking a lot of sense IMO and are making very valid points.

GettingStrong Fri 05-Jul-13 14:58:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

evelynj Fri 05-Jul-13 15:18:44

you sound like you need to talk to a doctor or counsellor-it's possible you are suffering from depression but if you love your dp, I think you are bound to regret going ahead with this and in the many years to come, particularly since you think you'll want another child at some time, this may hit you really hard.

You won't know until you're down the line what the best decision is but think about other options-could you move closer to some family support? Get out to some baby groups or take a different part time job just to socialise and get out?

Above all it sounds like your oh isn't aware of how down you feel & you need t talk to him honestly and share your problem as it's his issue too.

Hope things get better for you...

thistlelicker Fri 05-Jul-13 20:57:41

Hope your ok op

desperatelysad Fri 05-Jul-13 21:06:13

Im doing just fine thanks, rather wishing none of this had ever happened, but this has taught me to get help as i do feel down and i hate feeling this way and know its not normal at all.

Dp has gone out with some friends tonight and rather than enjoying a bit of time to myself im sat here feeling so lonely that even if i had somewere to go i have nobody i could just call up and ask out, there not 1 person i could call last minute. I hate feeling this way i really do, i have no life anymore. I know i need help to feel better about myself so i will certainly be visiting a new doctor in the next few weeks, i just feel so low at the moment, maybe its the extra hormones all over the place i dont know, i do know i cant and dont want to be like this anymore.

Apart from that though i feel physically fine, no regrets at all. I seriously thankyou all for taking the time to write to a complete stranger when shes feeling at her worst. I really seriously do appreciate it. Youve all kept me relatively sane the past couple of days. smile

Good to hear that you've decided to take action about feeling so low, OP. I'm sure you will have extra hormones plus the adrenaline of the situation, and when both of those calm down and you get professional help you will be able to see a clearer path ahead.

Hope you have a good rest. I'm assuming you didn't tell your other half, because I can't imagine he would have gone out if he had known. I hope you get the chance for a long conversation soon.

Pajimjams Fri 05-Jul-13 21:34:47

flowers Hope you are soon feeling better in yourself and able to enjoy your ds. Glad it seems to have gone smoothly today.

Vivacia Fri 05-Jul-13 21:38:45

I really admire the strength and resilience you've shown. I think you're right to build your strength and then start taking some steps towards happiness.

MorrisZapp Fri 05-Jul-13 21:54:23

So sorry that you don't feel you have a friend you could call. We're always here for handholding. Have you been feeling lonely for a long time, or is it tied in with recent events and with becoming a parent?

You're still the same person you were before, though I know how easy it is to lose sight of that.

Do you enjoy your own company, usually? You mentioned your DS starting nursery soon, that's something amazing to look forward to.

Hope you're ok, and hope you can eat/ sleep ok and maybe even enjoy the sun this weekend xx

BlackSwan Fri 05-Jul-13 22:45:39

Only saw your thread today OP, I'm glad the worst is behind you and admire your ability to make a real honest decision in such a crisis. Enjoy your DS and start focussing more on yourself, but you have started with a very wise decision for your own well-being I think. Take care.

GettingStrong Fri 05-Jul-13 22:47:09

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

springytata Fri 05-Jul-13 23:00:25

I thought of you today. I'm glad to hear you're feeling ok. Might be a bit rocky for a couple of days (hormones) so be prepared. Though it might not be of course!

Re your partner not having a darn clue how to do things - show him. I've had to teach quite a lot of boys kids how to do things, they really don't know how it's done! Simple things like tidying up - they don't know how you do it. So you have to teach them. Don't expect him to know - he clearly doesn't know if he's tucking in ds like a sardine in a tin and then wonders why ds wakes up screeching. Don't assume DP knows how to do it.

springytata Fri 05-Jul-13 23:05:01

[and can I just say that OP posted this morning a lengthy post about herself, her life, her feelings about her partner, her worries and her life in general.... and the thread steamed on with a discussion between posters about abortion as if she hadn't posted, or was incidental: a situation to hang a discussion onto. Inappropriate imo]

Janiston Fri 05-Jul-13 23:06:46

As sure as the sun rises at some point he will find out if you terminate - tell him. It really isn't worth the fall out

GettingStrong Fri 05-Jul-13 23:42:48

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

It's good to hear you're feeling well after your procedure OP, though I'm sorry you're lonely. Please come back and start a thread if you have any trouble finding the help you are looking for.

And even though you feel okay physically I hope you take it easy for a few days and look after yourself {{hugs}}

bumbleymummy Sat 06-Jul-13 07:37:16

I'm glad you're going to see someone about how you're feeling. I hope things work out ok with your husband. I still think you need to be honest with him rather than going down the miscarriage route.

speingytata, I hope you're not referring to me because I did actually reply to the OPs post yesterday. Unfortunately, I also had to reply to some other posters as well whose comments were not directed at the OP.

AgathaF Sat 06-Jul-13 07:58:15

Glad you're feeling physically ok. Please do see a GP about how you feel emotionally. It does sound as though you need some help.

desperatelysad Sun 07-Jul-13 18:15:43

Can i just say again thankyou for all your kind and lovely words, i really dont feel i deserve any of them but seriously they mean a lot to me right now.

Ive been lonely for a few years so not something recent, lot of fall out with freinds when they all moved on to different parts of the country/world, we kind of all lost touch, the few i do have round here all seem so busy with there own lives they never have time to chat, well exchange emails or textx but there not the type i could just call in a crisis or even for a long chat, i really do miss just having someone to call to chat to or ask can i pop round, i never have anywere to go. Anyway i will certinaly by trying to work on improving that area of my life aswell as others.

Thanks again, i think i would have gone insane bottling everything up to myself, the kindness of strangers hey! i wish i could take you all out for a drink to say thanks for caring! grin

You sound lovely, OP smile I'm sure you'll make friends in no time!

MadBusLady Mon 08-Jul-13 08:51:05

Morning OP, hope you're continuing to do well. I've been through that losing touch with people thing and it's miserable, it affects your thinking way more than you might expect. There isn't really a cultural expectation that friends matter the same way a relationship matters, but I definitely think they do.

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but I really think it's worth pushing your DP on his lack of pitching in as well. It's going to hamper you getting back out into the world if you're having to do everything - even with nursery. I wouldn't assume that just because the baby stage is coming to an end your DP is going to step up, I think he will need to be made to.

Good luck!

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