to be so upset, my baby ( well nearly two) is upstairs crying and I am down stairs to sleep train her

(76 Posts)
SweetSummerSweetPea Wed 06-Aug-14 03:06:52

Its heartbreaking, she is up there crying her little heart out with dh....and I am sleeping downstairs....we have not been parted since the day she was born and am still BF her, but she is waking up twice a night so said - no more...lets try and sleep train her....poor little lamb....

KnackeredMuchly Wed 06-Aug-14 03:10:38

sad no advice here, just keeping you company

TeenageMutantNinjaTurtle Wed 06-Aug-14 03:10:49

You have my sympathy, it's brutal. Your dd has your dh with her so she's not alone. This too shall pass.

Best of luck, hope it works quickly.

<holds hands> I had the exact same child. What I did, after much soul searching, was a self-invented sleep training system (I should write a book). I went back every time she cried, "Mummy loves you" then out. Every time. That way she didn't get what she wanted; picked up, BF or whatever, but she did know I would never leave her.

I think if your DH goes in there, your little one knows the same; that her parents love her and won't leave her.

BTW, DD, now 3.5, sleeps like an angel and NEVER wakes up (I'm touching wood right now) except for illness.

SweetSummerSweetPea Wed 06-Aug-14 03:27:37

thank you so much ladies....she has quietened down now....has been stirring since 1.30pm though. the last cry was particularly nasty and shrill. she is still in our room so in there asleep with dh, so hoping to break the BF night habit then move her into own room, but one step at a time. grin.

Mrs T thats so sweet...I am staying away for two nights and after this will do same thing as you.

Good luck flowers

ChatEnOeuf Wed 06-Aug-14 06:40:59

Have you looked at Dr Jay Gordon's night weaning advice? It's very gentle. We were lucky, DD stopped caring about milk in the middle of the night when she was about 10 months old, but she still wakes for cuddles most nights!

wobblyweebles Wed 06-Aug-14 07:13:46

I had the exact same child. What I did, after much soul searching, was a self-invented sleep training system (I should write a book). I went back every time she cried, "Mummy loves you" then out. Every time. That way she didn't get what she wanted; picked up, BF or whatever, but she did know I would never leave her.

We did something similar and it did work after a couple of weeks, after which my daughter became a fabulous sleeper and also a much happier, healthier child.

temporarilyjerry Wed 06-Aug-14 07:22:51

DS2 didn't sleep through the night until we put him in his own room. Is that a possibility?

HavanaSlife Wed 06-Aug-14 07:22:57

I had to sit in with ds3 at this age, he was still waking for a bottle quite a few times a night. It took about a week but was slightly better each night and then he started sleeping through. He was a much happier child in theeday once he was getting more sleep.

Luckily bf ds4 18 m has pretty much dropped night feeds on his own, it must be hard not being able to go into her but she has her dad and will be fine. My friend did what you are doing and it worked after a couple of nights

HavanaSlife Wed 06-Aug-14 07:24:55

Oh and like temp said, the sleeping in own room really helped all of mine so if you decide it isnt working this way, putting in own room then trying again in a few weeks might work better

PocketFluff Wed 06-Aug-14 07:49:36

I'll second the Jay Gordon method. It's very gentle and 'natural'. We didn't get any crying, just a bit of grumbling and from the third night doing it she started sleeping through. A real shock to the system after a year and a half of being up every hour or two!

drjaygordon.com/attachment/sleeppattern.html

MissBeans Wed 06-Aug-14 08:07:23

I tried Dr Jay Gordon & it knackered me out. His method didn't work for us. Watching with interest.

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Wed 06-Aug-14 08:14:12

Not helpful, but my DD still wakes up in the night at 5y/o to come and get into bed with me. Its something I have accepted and enjoy. I did not do sleep training, I think bed time can be traumatic enough when you are little. Being left in a room alone at night.

anothervisittothepark Wed 06-Aug-14 08:32:46

Puds, what has your journey been to get to this point? My 2.5 yo is in bed all night with me and still bf regularly during the night. I keep saying i need to do somethibg to improve situation. I would like to at least stop bf and just co sleep. But i cant seem to change it. He gets so upset. I keep going back to me "go with the flow he will outgrow it eventually" method. If he is still coming in for cuddle at 5 I dont think i would mind as long as he is not still bf all night at that age!!

Horses for courses. I was broken at 2 years. My DH thought I had depression. I was useless at work (really thought I had permanent baby brain; I couldn't think) and was worried about driving. I hadn't slept more than a few hours in a row in three years (I also had pregnancy insomnia). DD was also an early riser who thought 4.30am was morning. Search MN's early risers thread if you want a glimpse into hell.

I resisted any form of sleep training vehemently until I was sure DD could understand it and knew it wasn't us leaving her. She didn't like the first few nights very much but she knew we were there.

I think this is one of those areas (like food, FF/BF and others) where women need to support each other, whatever their choices as long as those choices are safe.

SweetSummerSweetPea Wed 06-Aug-14 14:51:31

puds

I did not do sleep training, I think bed time can be traumatic enough when you are little. Being left in a room alone at night.

grin my dd is nearly two and has been by my side since birth, so has never been alone her in room and never cried out for us. she was in a moses after birth down stairs and we carried her up with us at night to a co sleeper cot.

Anyway, DH said last night was not too bad in the end. At one point she was looking for breast on him, couldn't find it, climbed on him to have a better look and when she saw his face, let out a blood curdling scream. Which I heard too.

But he said although she woke up several times, she was quite easy to settle back down.

When she saw me down stairs this morning she let out a huge squeal of delight and jumped on me.

So, night one OK!

Not so great for me, as I was tortured by a mosquito buzzing in my ear all night, I have had 4 hours sleep.

Will look into this jay method, thanks.

taking it one step at a time, get her off night feeds and then into own room.

SweetSummerSweetPea Wed 06-Aug-14 14:53:37

I resisted any form of sleep training vehemently until I was sure DD could understand it and knew it wasn't us leaving her.

Same here, I feel she is old enough to know we are still there ( she knows DH was there!), I feel guilty now, when left fist to cry but I have not had a proper sleep for nearly two years!

It.Is.Time!

TarkaTheOtter Wed 06-Aug-14 15:02:54

What's there to feel guilty about - she's still being settled to sleep by a loving parent?!?

IceBeing Wed 06-Aug-14 15:06:46

I just read the Dr. Jay thing..I have A LOT of time for that sort of advice and mode of giving advice....I wish all parenting suggestions were made in that tone!

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Wed 06-Aug-14 16:14:27

another I co-slept until she was almost 3, then she moved into her own room. I had stopped breast feeding at 15months and she would have a little bit of water before bed/in the night which I weaned her off by 3.

From age 3-4 i would sit with her while she fell asleep in her own room then leave and she would totter into my room in the night. Now she goes to sleep in her own room, I do story, night night kiss then leave her. I always go back in to check on her 'in 10mins'. Some nights she sleeps the whole night in her own bed, some nights she comes and gets into my bed.

Bed sharing doesn't bother me as its just the two of us, and I like our little cuddles. I think if there were three in the bed it would be a bit too cramped.

Following with interest to see how you get on on subsequent nights smile

23mo DD is still sleeping in a single pushed up against our bed and we are hoping to change this arrangement by the end of the year! Have coslept since birth, bf is down to one at bedtime only, plus if she wakes before about 5am i feed her, any later than that, its morning and I say mummy's milk is asleep til bedtime lol

i keep meaning to read the jay Gordon thing but haven't managed to do it yet. Funnily enough if i have spare time to read in the evening, i fall asleep instead. Can't imagine why wink

And puds your little girl sounds like my middle DD, now 5.5yo and she does stay in her bed all night, bar the occasional request for a drink in the night. We followed a very similar pattern to the one you've described.

AllHailTheBigPurpleOne Wed 06-Aug-14 16:26:38

Just offering support here. We've been retraining 21 month old dd for the last few days. I thought we were all done since Feb but dd's 18 month sleep regression kicked in 6 weeks ago. Fun.
Last night I put her in her cot and she started to wail so I asked her if I should come back in 5 minutes. She said essss (yes) and i went out and not a peep til half 6 this morning.
Oh I hope this is it now! It's nice feeling capable again.

MillionPramMiles Wed 06-Aug-14 16:30:11

Personally I'd rather sleep train than continue encouraging a toddler to feed for comfort rather than hunger but each to their own.

Do whatever you feel comfortable with but sleep deprivation isn't a badge of honour. Quality, uninterrupted sleep is something you, your dh and your dd all need and deserve.
I did cc with my dd at 10 mths. As a toddler she positively leaps into her cot at bedtime, loves being cosy with her teddies in there and definitely doesn't want to be in bed with us. She sleeps through and wakes happy. Something she didn't do as a baby with frequent night wakings.

anothervisittothepark Wed 06-Aug-14 16:50:32

I dont think anyone is saying sleep deprivation is a badge of honour. Or criticising sleep training. We are just exchanging stories and looking for tips.

SweetSummerSweetPea Wed 06-Aug-14 21:04:40

MILLION

I don't think CC at 10 months is a badge of honour either. Each to their own confused I did it with my first and now I see how you can do things differently I feel very guilty.

SweetSummerSweetPea Wed 06-Aug-14 21:05:05

Into the breach again, tonight!

hels71 Wed 06-Aug-14 21:10:07

Really really also recommend Dr Jay Gordon...we used it with DD. First night tears but still cuddles from me....second night....a few grumps when she realised no feeding....then fine...

Thebodyloveschocolateandwine Wed 06-Aug-14 21:16:24

Total sympathy op. No one but no one understands the total devestating effect sleep deprivation can cause in a parent.
Unless they had it.

I did cc with ds1 ( 14 months)as I nearly crashed my car falling asleep at the wheel, believe me that was a wake up call for me to realise that things had to change. I was also pregnant with dc2.

Bloody best thing I ever did. Took 2 nights and then utter bliss he went into his own bed no tears and happy as Larry.

Did the same with ds 2 at 6 months.

DD 1 at 5 months and DD2 wierdly slept through herself.

You have to be committed and knackered enough to totally need it to work. For me there was no alternative.

Thebodyloveschocolateandwine Wed 06-Aug-14 21:19:58

Why feel guilty at cc. Trust me ds1 is now 24 and he's fine as they all are.

Feeling guilty goes with the territory of parenting but it's not necessarily rational. I would have felt far worse if I had crashed the car and ds had been injured.

Parents need sleep. Parents need to be functioning human beings.

HavanaSlife Wed 06-Aug-14 21:20:12

I need to stop feeding to sleep, but he just gets so upset.

Have nothing against cc, I used it with my first 2 but they were older (2 years) so old enough to know I wasn't going very far. It's not something I'd use personally on a young child who didn't understand

Gradual retreat with ds3 was a much better way of doing things though, no upset, took slightly longer than the cc but was a much better experience!

SweetSummerSweetPea Wed 06-Aug-14 21:20:32

Thanks Body.

I will probably be kicking myself didnt do it earliertoo!

HavanaSlife Wed 06-Aug-14 21:22:24

My oldest is 19 and cc was something that pretty much everyone I knew used at that time

flossieflower Wed 06-Aug-14 21:26:37

I also used the Jay Gordon method to nightwean 18 month old twins who'd breast fed every two hours every night for their whole lives. Took about five nights (I did three nights of a quick feed then back in the cot and sit with them until they went to sleep then two nights of a quick cuddle then back in the cot and sit then after that sat with them but didn't pick them up but it really wasn't needed at all after 5 nights- they just slept for the whole 12 hours which was bliss!!). They carried on breast feeding during the day until 26 months but not after the last feed at bedtime.

Good luck- sleep deprivation is hell.

combust22 Wed 06-Aug-14 21:27:57

Not for me, I wouldn't leave my child to cry, but if that is the approach you are taking then I hope it works for you.

maddening Wed 06-Aug-14 21:28:31

Just over 2 I had an op and till then was bf and co sleeping with ds - dfiance and I swapped over and ds did cry and his dad stayed with him all the way and coslept (double mattress on ds' floor) and within a week ds was sleeping in his toddler bed and sleeping through the night with df on mattress on floor next to him - I sleep on the mattress now but it totally broke the night feeds and bf to sleep.

As long as there is someone with dc then it is fine - it is fine to hate this bit though (I missed the first night as was in hospital then the next night was off it on codeine so am sure that I would have been like you if it wasn't t for the op)

flossieflower Wed 06-Aug-14 21:28:49

Also should have said I told them every two hours for several days before we started the process that they wouldn't be having mummy milk at night any more and they did understand what was happening. I could never have left a crying child after the reading I've done on attachment so the Jay Gordon method was perfect for me as they were never left alone.

puntasticusername Wed 06-Aug-14 21:29:43

Oh, love. It's hard, it's SO hard. Lots of sympathy here (for everybody)! thanks

maddening Wed 06-Aug-14 21:35:57

Ps we were thinking of doing dr jay Gordon - it may take longer but it gentle IMO - however night 2 was night ds sttn and day 5 in his own bed. He had always been hard going sleep wise before this - I don't regret not doing it sooner - for all the broken nights it was all v hazy with bf and co sleeping - just short wake ups and feeds and back to sleep and wasn't awful - I enjoy sleeping in with ds now and think he is getting to point where I will move out but with no real angst as it is all in his own time - he doesn't fight bedtime really at all and it is quite nice and cosy.

I am glad I never had to do cc and I don't consider a parent there comforting a child as any type of crying to sleep method.

maddening Wed 06-Aug-14 21:37:59

Pps ds is bf still at 3.5 so if didn't harm the bf just removed the night feeds although he has occasional night feeds if he is poorly.

IWillOnlyEatBeans Wed 06-Aug-14 21:38:02

My 19 month old still bfs through the night. We have night weaned a couple of times and it has worked - until something has set us back (illness, teething, holidays). I de-camped to the spare room and DH co-slept with DS2. There was some upset, but not as much as I anticipated.

I'll be back in your position when his molars are finally through and we decide to go for it again...

I hope the next few nights work well for you op flowers

queenofthemountain Wed 06-Aug-14 21:42:13

Oh for goodness sake she is not distaraught.She iscross because you are not dancing to her tune.

queenofthemountain Wed 06-Aug-14 21:43:35

Never be afraid of saying no to your child.

Mini05 Wed 06-Aug-14 21:49:29

Sorry to say this but you made a rod for your own back!

My DS would always wake when we decided to eat at night around 7pm my midwife said to me put him upstairs, he's been washed,changed, fed
Leave him to cry.
We had monitor on, so could hear him crying. It lasted about 10 mins and it killed me but I did it
So from then on after 7 ish feed he went in Moses upstairs. He was in his own room from when he didn't wake during night.

It worked, I honestly can say I have never had any crying when he got to toddler age in his own room he was used to it.

SweetSummerSweetPea Wed 06-Aug-14 22:00:57

they just slept for the whole 12 hours which was bliss!!) Nivarna I am looking forward too!!!

Not for me, I wouldn't leave my child to cry, but if that is the approach you are taking then I hope it works for you She is crying for BF my DH is there in bed upstairs with her to comfort her grin

This thread is taking a predictable turn!

SweetSummerSweetPea Wed 06-Aug-14 22:04:50

.She iscross because you are not dancing to her tune*

I don't subscribe to that train of thought with young children at all.

I am sure it will be fine soon! Its just hard because she has been next to me and BF twice a night for two years. It wasn't that bad actually, not as bas as my first who was in moses for 3 months....that was a killer!

This time round I had fabulous co sleeper cot and was really disturbed very little....baby was enormously happy.

However as you can imagine, its a huge change for us now...I want her to stop waking at night for BM hence me down stairs...and after a few weeks, if this works we will then move her to her own bedroom...

It was her shrill high pitched shriek that drove me to write op last night...aND dh told me today why she did that...

combust22 Wed 06-Aug-14 22:08:02

sweet you did ask. I make no judgement, just not my style of parenting, that's all.

SweetSummerSweetPea Wed 06-Aug-14 22:14:27

No problems combust I just wanted to make it clear she is not being left to cry, my DH is with her.

Thats all.

TarkaTheOtter Wed 06-Aug-14 22:15:31

Oh dear OP, you're getting judged by both the pro- and anti-sleep training camps at the same time! wine

Good luck tonight, hopefully she'll understand the new status quo pretty quickly.

SweetSummerSweetPea Wed 06-Aug-14 22:18:22

Thanks Tarka grin only on MN wink..I think she will too, it wasn't as bad as it could have been, we were prepared for her to be up all night crying!

HavanaSlife Wed 06-Aug-14 22:19:31

You didn't read the ops post though combust did you, op is not doing cc

Softlysoftlycatchymonkey Wed 06-Aug-14 22:22:05

what's there to feel guilty about - she's still being settled to sleep by a loving parent?!?

^^ this.

op I did it with my dd2 (dd1) slept through very easy with no effort.
She was around 9 months though. I sat at the top of the stairs with a book and went in every few mins and lay her back down and a few kind words Sounds like your doing a grand job.

CC was not for me.

combust22 Wed 06-Aug-14 22:25:47

havana- yes I did read the posts. If my OH was not settling my child then I would intervene. CC or not.

HappyTalking Wed 06-Aug-14 22:26:36

Good luck for tonight, hope she settles ok and you all manage to get some sleep

Thebodyloveschocolateandwine Wed 06-Aug-14 22:30:54

Op you are doing a great job.

It's quite ridiculous have been criticised by anyone.

It also makes me smile about the cc debate. I did cc but it does not involve leaving your child to cry for hours alone!!! That's utter ignorant crap! Of course you go in and settle/touch them but just do it quickly and quietly.

Anyhoo any normal adult needs sleep to be a good parent and a safe functioning human being.

Never mind op, before you know where you are your dd will be arguing the case for a belly button piercing and overnight party because everyone else is

grin

Softlysoftlycatchymonkey Wed 06-Aug-14 22:31:55

combust how would your dh learn to settle your dc if your were undermining him?

Thebodyloveschocolateandwine Wed 06-Aug-14 22:33:47

softly you did go cc. That's what it involves! Unfortunately on mumsnet it's been twisted. Do you think all us older mums let our children scream all night? Of course not.

combust22 Wed 06-Aug-14 22:34:19

He wouldn't really want to settle them, and be mightily glad I took over!!

SweetSummerSweetPea Wed 06-Aug-14 22:51:48

before you know where you are your dd will be arguing the case for a belly button piercing and overnight party because everyone else is* grin

SweetSummerSweetPea Wed 06-Aug-14 22:54:31

If my OH was not settling my child then I would intervene. CC or not

your reading stuff in here thats not going on.

he is settling her, and she settled really well - we were anticipating being up all night and stuff.

But before he settles her, she wakes up, wheres mummy, hey cry cry shes not here....cry cry....daddy settles her.

she wakes up again, trys to room in on dad, gets a shock....cant quite see, climbs on him to see his face, then lets out a blood curdling cry, daddy wakes up and settles her.

SweetSummerSweetPea Wed 06-Aug-14 22:56:21

I am so tired I am confused myself, we are not doing cc we are sleep training.

Thebodyloveschocolateandwine Wed 06-Aug-14 23:00:12

Sweet don't get mumsnet mixed up chik.

You are doing the best you can for your family.

It doesn't have to have a label. It's just family life.

Watch out for that belly piercing though, girls are tricky and clever. She's probably lining you up now and planning! grin

DiscoDancer Wed 06-Aug-14 23:00:18

Marking place. Ds is 16 months and would like to stop bf and stop him waking in night and to stop co sleeping.....soon! confusedblushsmile

Bakeoffshakeoff Wed 06-Aug-14 23:04:49

Sweet, I did exactly the same as you with my dd when I wanted to stop bf at night.

I slept in the spare room, DH slept with dd.

It worked very well and only took a couple of nights for her to stop asking for milk. Hope to ight goes well.

HavanaSlife Wed 06-Aug-14 23:05:59

Well you obviously didn't as op has said her dh is settling her

SweetSummerSweetPea Wed 06-Aug-14 23:06:14

bake are you the poster who was out in car in middle of night? and watching ceebies?

Softlysoftlycatchymonkey Wed 06-Aug-14 23:09:57

I meant cry it out ! blush

Bakeoffshakeoff Wed 06-Aug-14 23:13:09

No Sweet. My dd is 20 now, they didn't have ceebies thengrin

You are doing the right thing though. I think it makes it much harder to stop BFing if the milk isright in front of them where they can smell it.

Thebodyloveschocolateandwine Wed 06-Aug-14 23:26:19

softly grin

Totally remember we drove ds1 to the seafront as he had howled most of the night in a holiday hotel in Teignmouth. We had a honeymoon couple above us and me and dh discussed drowning him! grin

I reason we put that couple off kids for life but oddly ds1 is now in the navy. ! Wierd.

SweetSummerSweetPea Wed 06-Aug-14 23:29:39

grin @the body

SweetSummerSweetPea Thu 07-Aug-14 10:10:54

Update in case anyone is interested...

Last night she briefly woke up once.!

shock

I am gong to venture back into bedroom tonight and see what happens shock.

one night of a little bit of crying, second night she woke up then settled herself in seconds...

So Far so good.

maddening Thu 07-Aug-14 21:49:22

good news - if you venture back in wear a bra smile

Thebodyloveschocolateandwine Thu 07-Aug-14 22:07:58

Bloody brilliant op. Well done. smile

Bakeoffcakes Thu 07-Aug-14 22:15:08

Great news! Hope you are all fast asleep very soon.

puntasticusername Fri 08-Aug-14 13:49:15

Nice one! Well done OP.

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