To think I'm never going to get pregnant...(164 Posts)
Just in hospital recovering from my second egg collection - first ivf cycle failed.
The consultant has said I need a 'full review' because he thinks there's something wrong with me as well as the fact we have extreme make factor issues. We knew about the mfi which is why we went for ivf (icsi) in the first place but didnt expect my eggs to be total crap. I'm 31, ovulate every month, have good levels of follicles.
Today they've retrieved 9 eggs. Same as last time. I've already given up. I'm tempted not to bother taking the progesterone. What's the point? Sperm are crap. Eggs are crap.
And no, I don't want to adopt.
I'm so fed up.
No suggestions but sending you huge hugs
When are they looking to do this full review?
Why the bloody hell does the consultant think there is something 'wrong' with you?
Is this based on a single failed IVF attempt or some other test results?
If the latter, then why is he allowing another cycle before doing this 'full review'?
This consultant sounds like the problem, not you.
Try and keep your chin up, it's grim I know.
When this cycle fails.
So sorry OP...am sending hugs....Life can be crap sometimes....I have a friend going through this and there is nothing I can say is there? Just thinking of you...
It's based on my eggs being crap first time and because I'm type 1 diabetic. He said there could be 'lots of other autoimmune conditions alongside it' which there could be...but I've no symptoms of any of them. Thyroid is fine, blood pressure low, diabetes is very very tightly controlled, I'm in pretty good condition. Apart from my shit eggs obviously.
No pcos, Bmi 21.
Just crappy eggs to go with the crappy sperm.
Darling you don't know that this cycle will fail
Please take the progesterone. Give yourself every chance. It will either work or it won't, but you'll kick yourself later if you don't do everything you possibly can.
How are you feeling? Is the sedation wearing off ok?
Oh you poor thing. It's crap, isn't it?
But you've only had one cycle. It's too early to give up hope at this point. 9 eggs may not be lots, but it's a decent amount to make a good choice from.
Actually, it might be that you could do better on another stimulation drug - do you think that might be what the review is for? Or a long/short protocol, depending on what you've had already?
Keep at it Hun, so sorry you feel this way. You've come a long way so far.
I feel ok. A bit emotional and like it's all been for nothing.
I wish the consultant had said all this before we began this cycle. Today is the first time we have actually seen him since our failed attempt.
Thank you for being so kind. Why why why are my eggs so useless?
Did you get to embryo transfer in the last cycle? How many days after ec was the transfer?
I've been short protocol because of having diabetes and suffering migraines. They said there's no difference in outcome chances between the two. Also I had plenty of antral follicles.
9 is crap isn't it? They said they thought they'd get 14 this time but apparently they weren't big enough.
No he said the review was to check what other issues I had.
9 eggs is a good amount to collect. Too many and the quality goes down, too few and the odds of good fertilisation goes down. I am told they aim for ten, so you are pretty spot on. Just wait to see on the quality, it can change so much between cycles.
Please try to stay positive on this attempt, could you see an acupuncturist to help you through any transfer.
If this doesn't work for you then my best advice is to get a second opinion on your tests, other tests, etc (I speak as someone who had her DC at the seventh and eighth IVF attempt when the fourth clinic I went to found the problem after being unexplained infertility for years).
It sucks, but lots can be done to improve egg quality.
Got to transfer, day 3 though so not great. Only had two still going and although there was no fragmentation they were only 6 cell so slow. Both went back but no good.
Consultant said there could be implantation issues. I personally don't think there are. I think the embryos just stopped growing since they were already slow.
He said nothing can be done re egg quality. It's just what you're born with.
I'm glad you finally got your dc Lambzig.
I don't think I can put myself through it that many times. Nor could we afford it in all honesty.
I know many people who have done IVF and had massive problems conceiving. Of about 12 couples, all bar 1 now have kids. Some worked first time, one took 6 tries. The majority have taken 2ish tries. It is highly likely you will get there. Even more likely if they can understand what the problem is. The one with no kids still has not actually started her IVF as they can't afford private. Dunno if that helps.
Believe it or not, 9 isn't bad at all. Ok, so they were hoping to get 14, but it's amazing how many follicles can be empty.
I completely understand why you feel like you've given up hope - you're allowed to feel low! But try to take one step at a time - you've had yet another procedure today, have been poked and prodded for ages, probably feel like a pin cushion and have the prospect of another procedure in the next few days.
I know it's easy for me to say this, and much harder to do, but please try to break it all down into manageable chunks. For today, your priority is to feel better, get home and be looked after by your other half. Tomorrow, your priority will be to find out how many embryos they've managed to get. Little chunks, trying to minimise how overwhelming the whole thing is as much as you can
Agree with Droflove, you will get there.
I know 7 attempts is at the extreme end. What frustrated me was the fourth clinic found the issue with a £250 test. IVF is so expensive that it is worth having as many tests as you can before trying again.
That's actually probably not true. There are studies showing that a lot can be done to improve egg quality with DHEA and high doses of Coenzym Q 10. It takes 3 months for them to show effect on egg quality. Not all consultants are up to date re this issue, so I think you need another clinic. Probably one size fits all approach is not for you and you need a consultant who can tweak things around to find combination that will work for you.
But don't forget that this cycle is not over yet.
Good luck .
Bubbamara, I was frantically googling as I knew there were things that could be done. Totally agree that the one size fits all approach is the norm for a lot of clinics, just to suggest another cycle.
Please look after yourself over the next few days. I know how everything feels like it's another impossible hurdle. Please remember that many babies are born (including my DC2) from implanting slow growing low grade embryos and many cycles with textbook perfect embryos implanted (most of my failed attempts) just don't work.
I've been taking cq-10.
The clinic had never heard of it when I asked if it was ok to take!
I think dhea would make my sugars a bit unstable as I believe it is similar to a steroid.
I've eaten lots of protein too. Probably wont make any difference but worth a shot.
We will change clinic next time.
Massive un-MN hugs and sympathy.
My two penn'eth:
Get tested for NK cells, or if they won't test, get them to put you on the steroids they would prescribe for a positive test
Are they doing a scratch/using embryo glue for the transfer? If not, ask for that for this transfer (might be too late for a scratch, but they can still use glue)
Have you had your thyroid tested? High TSH levels are associated with poor implantation, so ask them to look at that ASAP. If your TSH levels come back high, ask them to freeze this lot while your get your TSH down
Unfortunately, it is still a numbers game and a lot of it is out of your control. BUT, get yourself over to the IVF threads on the Conception board, and see the stories of people who were in your position and dreading their 2nd/3rd/4th rounds but then got the right outcome. It DOES happen
Yes, DHEA is a bit tricky, you should definentely speak to your consultant before taking it. CoQ10, on the other hand, is something that even the most conservative doctors agree with. Mega doses are needed (600-1000mg), preferably in the form of ubiqionol.
The fact that your consultant never heard of CoQ10 speaks volumes about his/her suitability for you and your case.
But as I said, this cycle is not over yet, so who knows, maybe you will not need a new clinic for another couple of years
Oh and I forgot to add, there are different (indirect) indicators of egg quality, but the single most powerfull one is age.
At 31, in reproductive terms, you are still young and don't be easily talked into crap eggs speak. It is something some clinics resort to instead of admitting that they couldn't figure out adequate protocol/their lab is crap/there are further investigation that need to be done instead of rushing into another cycle/etc.
Yes, maybe your eggs are not super eggs, but at 31 they should be good enough. It could mean that a bigger effort needs to be done on the part of the clinic, so you need to find a clinic that is up to that task.
Thank you. Am home now.
I just felt like the consultant had written me off! He asked what my hba1c is (5.9) and pulled a hmm face. 5.9 is bloody excellent! It's normal for someone without diabetes. In fact my diabetes clinic always say it's the best one they have.
He just kept saying he thought there were 'other issues'. But wouldn't say that and no one mentioned this to us last time.
We will definitely change clinics. The embryologist was much more positive which was nice, we've been able to have ivf rather than icsi because dh's sperm had improved a lot today for some reason. She said this was good because the less the eggs were interfered with the better. She didnt seem to think egg quality last time was bad.
So why the consultant was so defeatist I don't know but it makes me worry that he knows something I don't! The success rates at the clinic are more or less the national average.
Statistics sadly don't mean much. Even he very best looking clinics fudge them - one withh the very highest success rates have a parallel clinic where patients who are less likely to be successful are treated sadly this is not uncommon at all.
Fwiw the embryologist is more likely to know what they're talking about than the consultant will at this stage x
The success rates at the clinic are more or less the national average.
Not relevant to the OP as she's younger, but when we asked about success rates I think we were quoted 38%, which I think was above average. That was a disingenuous answer, that may well be the clinic overall success rate but (on our last attempt) the general age-related success rate for the procedure was only something like 12%, I subsequently found out. We would probably have had at least one fewer unsuccessful cycles had we been quoted probabilities conditional on age.
Yy to FraidyCat - it's not a "one size fits all" statistic
Get hold of "is my body baby friendly?" By Dr Alan Beer. It deals with auto immune issues, Nk's, and many of the issues relating to poor ovulation and implantation as well as rpt mc.
Btw 9 is good. 12 is apparently optimal and much over that and you're risking hyper stimulation.
For suspected immune issues Care at Nottkngham, ARGC and UCH were big on them, and have excellent results.
I do recall feeling like you. Right now the results of one of my cycles is rubbing crisps into the carpet.
Please try not to worry about the amount of eggs. When I had ivf we only had 3 at the collection stage of which 2 went on to fertilise and we had one blastocyst put in. We now have a lovely DD.
It is so hard to go through ivf and feel defeated by the whole process. Sending virtual hugs!
Oh sleepswithbutterflies, sending you big hugs. I hope you do get your BFP soon.
Agree with pp that 10 is a good aim, so you're pretty much bang on tbh.
Keep as positive as you can op.
Been there. It's totally, totally shit.
Have you accessed the counselling service? That really helped me.
feel free to pm me if it would help x
ohfour thank you for pm, I will answer you a little later x x
Have been napping on and off. Feel more discomfort than last time although it's still well within the realms of 'bearable.'
Have a look at the fertility section on here and also fertility friends.
I was 41 when I had my DS who is one next Friday. He was conceived on my 4th round of IVF - my 13th round of fertility treatment. I never got more than 4 eggs. He was one of 3. he was conceived after taking DHEA for, I think, 4 months.
I'm so sorry you are having to go through this. It's not fair but there is probably still hope and time for you.
try reading this thread
OP I haven't RTFT but this thread helped me enormously when we had fertility issues. Plenty of people on IVF on it, many very knowledgeable.
And take the progesterone. This might be your chance!
Oh sleeps! Don't give up hope just yet!
I have had 2 excellent, perfect embryos transferred which resulted in nothing a bfn.
Next time one good and one dodgy one and had DD.
On our last attempt we had one 6 cell and one 8 cell, both slow developers with fragmentation. We were told not to get our hopes up. Both took and I had twins.
I know its anecdotal but sometimes "quality" means jack shit there is still so much they don't know.
Hope your feeling a little less rough x
Good luck OP, I have no comprehension of what you're going through but I imagine it must be totally shit. I wish you well, I really do.
Don't give up! I got 7 eggs at the grand old age of 35 and it worked. 2 went to blasto and one is now sat on the floor next to me
hitting things playing with his toys.
I know it can work...in theory.
I just felt so disheartened after seeing the consultant and it annoyed me that I've been merrily sailing along and no one had mentioned to me that they thought there were 'other issues'. No no. They let us spend the £5k first and THEN they mentioned it.
Although as I said he couldn't seem to tell me what issues they might be.
Hopefully the embryologist will ring and say we've got some fertilised. We had 100% last time for all the good if did us but I'm a bit worried because we've had ivf rather than icsi so wondering if we will get any even though the clinic recommended we have the ivf not the icsi.
I totally get how hard this is and the feeling that you want to give up.
I feel the same today. Not exactly the same situation as you but just had my second miscarriage this year, the first was following fertility treatment and this latest one was after finally getting an endometriosis diagnosis after 2 years of not conceiving on our own, followed by surgery, followed by an immediate natural pregnancy that ended in a MMC at 9 weeks and an ERPC two days ago. It's crap and I completely understand the feeling that your body/eggs/everything is rubbish and can't do what it's supposed to. You wonder why you go on doing this to yourself.
There is no magic that will make it better. People in our situation just keep on plugging away because we simply have to - until the thought of carrying on is worse than the thought of no children/no more children and I'm a long way off that despite everything we've been through.
It sounds you have had a lot to deal with and have come so far. You must be an incredibly strong person. I wish you all the best x
On our 4th round we got 4 eggs from a mild stimulation cycle and there was only one embie still going at day 3. It was only 5 cells and had some fragmentation. We asked the embryologist what was going wrong and he suggested using donor eggs. I cried and had no hope. That embie arrived kicking and screaming into the world yesterday. There is so much they don't know about embryo development. On earlier cycles I had had two grade 1 embies put back and miscarried and got a bfn. Don't give up yet.
Oh wow euro - was it a boy or girl embie?
Congratulations x x x
My darling, don't give up. You are young and there is still a long way to go and you don't know yet if this round has even been unsuccessful! Even if it has, then just because one consultant made one comment (which he has no evidence to back up) does not mean that this is it for you.
You've had one round - it is rare that it works first time.
Just keep calm, although I know it's difficult, and see how it goes. FWIW I never thought I would have children - after having cancer in my early 20's and lots of chemo, but I somehow found myself pregnant at 39 and then managed it again a couple of years later - in my 40's when everyone was telling me that it wasn't going to happen.
I can't say that this will definitely happen for you - who can, but this could be your time. Please don't give up yet.
Lots of un-MN-y hugs xxx
Wow Eurochick, you made it! I remember your posts about 4 years ago when I had my last cycle. You've had a hell of a ride. Massive congratulations! Enjoy your baby, God knows you've earned it.
<there's something in my eye>
OP, I'm a prolific poster but a serial name changer and posted on here and fertilityfriends and another site for years and I'll tell you this: In the hundreds of women I followed and posted with, I can only think of two, who never got there. They both were well into their 40s and one went on to adopt and the other drew a line under it. And sad though it was that their journeys were as traumatic, that's actually only ONE who didn't make it to motherhood.
Please hang in there. X
See, there are so many supportive people and success stories! Stay positive!! Hope that you are soon holding your LO. xxxx
Thank you x x
As an aside how much pain is normal after ec? I had none last time but this time I can't stand up straight. It's not too bad if I stay still but walking around is not good. It kind of hurts higher up, where my kidneys are.
I do look a bit fatter than usual.
I shouldn't think it's ohss with only 9 eggs though. Must just be from the procedure?
I've had fresh ivf x 2, and one frozen round. First ivf didn't work - I've heard they often treat it as a tester round (especially on the NHS) - I didn't think I was given enough of the drugs, but from their pov they were being cautious. Anyway I got seven eggs, maybe six fertilised but by day 2 none of them were great - they put two back, none were worth freezing, it failed.
Second cycle was much better, they got 12 eggs (so still not loads), maybe 9 fertilised and 8 were good quality. I had two put back, had one baby. Had a frozen cycle from the same batch four years later, two put back, now pregnant with one baby.
Im(totally unqualified)o, the first round was a duff one, and the second one, for whatever reason, obviously got a semi-decent batch. Not perfect as I never conceived twins (probably fortunately), but I consider myself very lucky.
I don't say all this to rub it in your face, but to point out that it's completely possible to fail once and then do well out of it.
Your consultant sounds insensitive at best though - I'd change clinic if I were you and it's a possibility.
Can't remember OHSS symptoms but definitely keep an eye on it.
Best of luck! Fertilityfriends is a good forum if you need further support.
I had 9 eggs collected, 5 didn't fertilize, 4 did. They put two back, and the other 2 weren't good enough to freeze. DS is now 7.
As for the recovery, I was still wincing standing up or sitting down 3 months later. The clinic I went to would only do 5 cycles in two years, so I assume months to recover from everything wasn't unusual?
The EC was not pleasant.
Thinking of you.
I think it's a bit early to be writing off this cycle, and I speak as someone who had two "textbook good" but unsuccessful IVF cycles then a third which was a total nightmare at every stage but which went on to give me not just a DD but also a DS four years later from a frozen embryo from that third cycle. And at the time of the FET his embryo didn't even technically survive the thaw (had lost cells and was doing absolutely nothing) but I had it put back in any case as I wanted closure ...
Take it easy as you can just now, eat lots of protein, drink lots of milk and take a good prenatal supplement (if OK for your diabetes) - and see what happens. Nine eggs is actually around what my clinic always aimed for, and your fertilisation rates seem good too so I'm not seeing personally how your eggs can be that bad. And being able to have IVF rather than ICSI is also good news.
Get back in touch with your clinic if you keep feeling uncomfortable in case it's OHSS or a UTI etc.
Hoping all goes well but, if not, ask for a review with the consultant and the embryologist, and maybe also consider approaching a different clinic. Oh, and see what tests you can have done before your next cycle to rule out anything which could be treated. I'm sure the IVF thread on this site is good but I personally found loads of useful information and support on Fertility Friends -including info on tests to ask for and immune issues - when I was going through the IVF rollercoaster.
Hang on in there meantime and best of luck.
The clinic rang at 7.45am and I missed their call.
Last time they didn't ring until 1pm-ish.
Why are they ringing so early? I'm concerned it's because all my eggs have died.
Sleeps: Just wondering if you are doing the natural health boosters too?
Are you and DH taking pre conception multi vits and minerals?
Do you both avoid alcohol?
Have you tried meditation to reduce stress levels?
Avoid all artificial sweeteners and other food additives.
Avoid convenience foods.
Don't give up.
I hope it's good news, sleeps.
It was a girl embie. They tend to be slower, apparently, but even so 5 cells at day 3 is a bit lazy!
I understand the feelings of despair and how hard it all is. We had decided to go up to 5 rounds with the first 4 being mild/natural cycles because I don't cope well with hormones and the 5th being a throw everything at one last go cycle. We needed to draw a line under it because it was so hard physically and emotionally.
That's lovely news euro x x x I'm so so pleased for you.
We are taking vitamins and eating well. Neither of us smoke and I don't drink anyway. Dh has been drinking through the football but not excessively. He hasn't been drinking previously and his sperm hasn't improved in any way at all anyhow.
Oh god. Why was my phone on silent?! Dh going out now so I'm going to have to take The Call on my own. It must be bad news to ring so early.
I got nine eggs, wasn't ovulating, I think due to extreme stress, changed job... Got lucky ....remember IVF has at best a 35 % chance
Thinking of you and hoping for the best xxx
Fingers crossed for you. As a fellow diabetic well don't on your great HbA1c that is very good! Mine was similar at my last test (we are TTC) and the consultant said I was the best patient they had ever had for pre-conception control and that the reading was better than his as a non-diabetic (mine was 5.8 so very very similar).
I had a friend who finally got her baby after 7 rounds of IVF. Easy to say but hang in there.
My second icsi cycle is now a sleeping teenager upstairs, right next door to her brother who was conceived without any additional support- 9months later.We were told we would not get pregnant naturally.
It is many years ago now, that I went through this I remember the sadness and desperation .I really hope for you and all the others trying that like for me this fades away into an old memory, and is added to by the memories of rearing your family xx
Please don't give up...I've not actually had any IVF but I have egg donated.
They collected 11 eggs from me and only 5 fertilised, the result? Twin boys who turned 2 in June.
Whilst your consultant wasn't positive you need to be, if you need to go another round then I think you should change clinics. I hope your phone call is good news...thinking of you.
Thinking of you, waiting for that call is awful. I thought that when my embryologist rang it was bad news because she sounded monotone and asked how I was first. But it was good news.
DS is now building a track with daddy and my natural surprise (we had male factor, icsi) is snoozing.
I had OHSS and I felt like that. It got significantly worse a week after ET (because of hCG!). So keep an eye out. I was hospitalised and had loads of fluid. Symptoms for me were distended, wobbly belly (the fluid!), breathlessness and pain when breathing/coughing. Hiccuping with ohss was the worst thing ever!
Good luck, op. And don't write yourself off. Over the years I've not known anyone who's had to give up and not become a mum in some way or other eventually. It'll happen but the wait to get there is awful. X
Have heard - I've got 6.
I guess that's about average?
So I'm ok. Not thrilled but ok. Slightly worried as last time all fertilised and we still only ended up with two that were going anywhere by day 3.
You only need 1 to grow so 6 is good, good luck and sending growth vibes...
6 just doesn't seem that many...I know we only need one but surely more chance of getting one if you start with about 15!
I think with this it's quality not quantity, fingers and toes crossed this is your time
True - unfortunately the quality is probably crap too!
Thank you for the good luck. Please keep sending it my way!
Do they implant on day 3 or 5, I think my lady had 2 implanted on day 5.
A lot depends on what day your clinic transfers too - my clinic does it on day 2 (!) so on the surface it looks like more of mine made it but no doubt by day three or especially day 5 some would have stopped. That's why I always chose to transfer two despite the risks.
If they have a clear front runner on day 3 they will transfer then. It's only if there are several to choose from that are still going that they will go to day 5.
On our second round of ivf we got 7 eggs, and only one fertilized (all did first time around). I was devastated and pretty much gave up. It was transferred on day 2 (why wait if you only have one? ).
My son is just about to turn 2.
Don't give up hope. You really just just don't know how it will go. Best of luck at a very stressful time
We had six of the seven fertilise. Four were done with ICSI the rest IVF. The two that made it to blasto were IVF ones. DH also produced a vastly improved sample on the day. Funnily enough on transfer day I was convinced it hadn't worked. I was very wrong so don't worry about gut feelings, I think after so long you kind of set yourself up for failure. Be kind to yourself - the consultant told me in other circumstances you'd have a general for collection but they can't do that then transfer a few days later so it's bound to be tough on your body. I've got everythng crossed for you and your wee bobbles
Six is great!
We had lots of embryos but still only had one transferred on day 2 at 4-cells (now my DS). If can happen!
Six is brilliant. Lots of people have their fingers crossed for you. Hang on in there.
There are so many comments above that I agree with. Just to mention a couple - I too followed forums for years and know of few people who wanted to be parents and failed to get there via one route or another. Also, the numbers thing is a real red herring. People with large numbers seem to seldom get more fertilised eggs probably because the extra follicles contained immature eggs. You are SO not out of the game yet!
So we've got three 2 cells, a 3 cell and a 4 cell.
I reckon the 4 cell will pack up overnight tonight.
Basically we have no chance.
They want me to have transfer tomorrow if there is anything to transfer.
We won't try again when this fails, my eggs are obviously utter crap.
My 3 cell dot is currently flapping around getting ready for a ballet exam. Don't give up yet. All you need is one tough one and you are there....and mine must have been tough....sending hugs and positive thoughts and things your way. Maybe think about changing clinics??? Where abouts are you???
It just doesn't seem to suggest very good quality. This is the second time this has happened.
We would maybe look at donor eggs and possibly donor sperm too but it would mean a trip to Spain.
Clinic basically think we are a lost cause.
We are in the midlands.
Sleeps, I have been watching your posts over the last few days and been rooting for you. I hope there good embies (not sure if you will put back one or two) to transfer tomorrow. Keep thinking as positively as you can and be good to yourself during the 2ww.
Your clinic sound awful. If you do need to go through this again, please pm me as I know/have experienced a number of great ones (high success results, positive staff and thinking outside the box). Also, sorry I know this is not the point of your thread but having 3 DC conceived by donor the topic is dear to me, please think carefully before going to Spain for donor eggs, there are plenty of uk clinics with no or low waiting lists for donor eggs at the moment (despite what your clinic may have told you) and you may save your future children being in the difficult position of having an unidentifiable donor.
Good luck and baby dust. X
Thank you Cranfield - the clinic told me it would be at least 4 years for a donor. Is that not necessarily true? Are all you children conceived from uk donor eggs? I'm glad you had success x x
If possible we will transfer 2. It's not helped that I've got to go on my own as dh has a meeting. I found transfer more traumatic than egg collection last time as at least I was knocked out for egg collection!
Hi there, really sorry you have to go on your own. I agree transfer can be quite uncomfortable plus you may have to make last minute decisions re what to do with embies. Assume DH can't be persuaded to miss meeting or is there anyone else that could stand in and come with you? On the positive side my two successful pregnancies have all come from transfers when DH couldn't be there.
Re the UK egg donor availability see the post below from DCN founder member Olivia. Your clinic saying there is a 4 year wait without suggesting you go elsewhere has further convinced me that it might not be employing best practice.
Poor you being alone tomorrow. I hated transfer too so I know how you feel. Don't write it all off yet. Good luck - and stay strong :-)
May I ask which clinic in the Midlands you are with? We are in the Midlands and my sister had to have egg collection a few years ago after being diagnosed with stage 4 cancer as the chemo would make her infertile. The NHS clinics wouldn't touch her with a barge pole as she had severe PCOS (never had a period) and had 10 days in which to complete the egg collection cycle before she HAD to start chemo to attempt to save her life. Her private clinic was amazing! Said they were used to dealing with difficult cases. 5 years later she is alive, cancer free, married and has a little baby. Maybe it is the clinic that is the problem, not you xx
Sleeps, will pm you
Best of luck for today and don't let a moody consultant's lack of professionalism (apalling timing to be talking like that) get you down.
Take care and get lots of rest and relaxation.
I dont have any experience of this..but reading your posts..makes me think it's the clinic that needs sorting out!
You sound pretty down too (understandably) but please try to remain positive. Maybe if this round doesnt work you could take some time out for you. No baby work. Youre still very young (I had my first naturally at 38) so please dont lose hope. I lost our first baby quite late on..and I was 37 at the time. Honestly thought that was my last chance. A holiday and some time for me to not stress worked wonders. In my case, it was true what they say..when you stop making it so important and all consuming, then you get pg
We started our ICSI journey because of male factor but it turned out I had 'rubbish' eggs and wrinkly ovaries. 1st attempt we got 3 eggs, 2 fertilised but only to become poor quality embryos and I didn't get pregnant. The consultant told us we were 'scraping the bottom of the barrel' when it came to my eggs and he helpfully drew us a picture to illustrate this point...
We went to a different clinic (recommended by another mumsnetter who told me a similar tale) and the consultant said it might not happen straight away but at 32 I was still young and she would get us pregnant. She very sensibly pointed out that I had 100s eggs and to make a judgement based on only 3 of them seemed a bit rash.
Our 2nd ICSI attempt still only produced 3 eggs and then 2 embryos. Maybe it's because they came from right at the bottom of the barrel those two little balls of cells insist on getting up at 5.30am every day. But this morning it means we have plenty of time together to celebrate their 2nd birthday!
I hope all goes well today. The journey can be tough and there are some very very dark days but I wish you all the strength in the world and the knowledge that many of us on here have walked this way before and we did get our happy endings x.
Op wishing you all the luck in the world, hope the IVF works.
Happy birthday to your twins Teds!
I'm at the priory - if anyone has recommendations re clinics please please pm me.
Have just seen the consultant - he couldn't remember who I was and only saw me on Friday so doubt he had 'spent a lot of time thinking about me' as he originally stated.
Am now waiting. Am cross it is so early because it won't have been 72 hours since fertilisation but I think they've done that on purpose so they can say my 4 cell might still divide. It won't. I'm tempted not to have any put back. They apparently couldn't fit me in any later that 9am but I've been told to wait because 'they are busy with other things.' I think I might wet myself!!! Embarrassing!! I should have known better than to drink anything yet, they were an hour late at egg transfer last time.
And thank you all so much for your kind thoughts x x
Good luck - I've had two pregnancies only 48 hours from fert so it is possible!
The full bladder feeling is AWFUL. I had to release some twice while waiting last time. They didn't think I could manage to let go just a bit but I had to and bladder was still massively full during the process. I asked if anyone had ever weed on the table and apparently they're used to it. Urk!
Managed not to wee! They were running an hour and a half late in the end so it would have served them right if I had weed on them.
We have a grade 2 six cell and a grade 1 seven cell. They obviously aren't ideal but the embryologist said the 7 looked like it would go to 8 if given a little longer. The other three remained at 4 cell but all have divided since yesterday so they will see how they get on. I'm not anticipating them making it much further but I guess you never know.
And apparently my eggs looked great! No thick shell completely normal. Put that in your pipe and smoke it dr 'I think there's lots of issues'
Have to say in fairness nurses have been lovely. It was the dr saying five mins before egg collection that he thought there were problems that upset me.
So now it's a waiting game. Embryologist put chances at about 30% (think she always says that) so am resting now as sore again. I know it probably still won't work but I'm pleased my eggs look normal.
I'm easily pleased nowadays.
I remembered when I came out that I meant to ask about embryo glue and forgot. Has anyone had this and does it improve chances much? X x
Thank you everyone for your kind wishes, keep hoping for me!
Good luck to you sweetheart. 6 Ivf's here, never got many eggs on any cycle and all my perfect looking embryos never took. My dodgy looking frozen 4 cell though is now 7 years old, I pray you get a good outcome xx
Fingers crossed, seems promising!
I was just glad they hadn't stayed where they were. Obviously now they have to keep dividing and implant... It's probably a big ask but they were better than last time at least. Less fragmentation and more cells.
Oh my goodness, that sounds like good progress and you need to keep your spirits up and get destracted. Try and visualise them implanting (I am never sure if I believe in that stuff, but its worth a try). Sounds very promising.
Are you good at keeping yourself distracted during the 2ww?.
I will pm you re clinics, but sounds like you wont need them.
I had treatment at the Priory for infertility and found it a miserable experience. Consultant was horrible!!! My sister had her IVF at Midland Fertility Services in Aldridge. She had such a lovely experience, everyone was so positive and kind. The consultant said she would bet her career on my sister being a mum one day....as we all sat there in tears, reeling from the cancer diagnosis and the sudden IVF that became necessary. Sure enough, first try was a success. Maybe go and see them, see if you like the place x
Also found Birmingham Women's absolutely dire! My sister went there 1st and because she had a BMI of 31 rather than 30 the consultant said 'you are too fat, IVF won't work for you'. Like she had time to lose those extra few pounds what with that pesky stage 4 cancer diagnosis. She would have been dead in a month without chemo hence the urgency of the IVF. First time I've ever seen my distraught mum almost punch someone. Midland Fertility Clinic didn't bat an eyelid at all my sister's 'issues'.
Excellent news Sleeps, My twins were a 7 cell and a six cell both grade 2. Hope it works out as well for you. Be good to yourself during the 2ww do lots of MN (but not the fertility boards). Try not to test early as it will probably just make you miserable. Baby dust xx
The Priory results are pretty shabby. Honestly it's worth finding somewhere with better results. That = less cycles to a baby!!!
I know how stressful it all is, I'm on my 2ww from my 3rd cycle first time with donor eggs and from the donor we got 1 2 cell 2 day grade 2-3 embie that's it
Not got much hope as you can imagine but hang on in there and keep positive
Good luck, I really hope this cycle works. Rooting for you
Good Luck and hugs from me too. I had 2 failed attempts at IVF and in total 15 years of infertility treatments when they wrote me off and said there was nothing else they could do for me - its a horrible feeling.
Then when I was 39 I fell pregnant. And when I was 41 I fell pregnant again!!! Please don't write yourself off just yet!
Thank you. I'm trying to hold on to hope that one day it'll happen.
Our remaining four embies (4 cells at day 3) haven't made it. Embryologist said they divided quite well but didn't compact whatever that means. So not looking good for my two that returned.
It's driving me mad not knowing for sure. I mean I'm pretty sure it hasn't worked but that tiny little bit of hope won't quite die altogether.
How are you today? The remaining embryos mean nothing. On my last cycle the one that didnt get put back didn't make it either. I still ended up with twins.
Thinking of you x
Keeping my fingers crossed for you. We had two rounds of IVF (ICSI). The first time I didn't produce any eggs (I was 43 so a long shot). Second time I had three eggs. That was it but the clinic (the Lister in London) did ICSI on all of them. I cried down the phone to DH when I got a call to say they had all fertilised. Because of my age and only having three they transferred all three as quickly as possible. I had an eight, a seven and a four cell. Then I took to the sofa for two weeks. Literally I did nothing except make a sandwich and watch day time TV for two weeks! Bliss!
The result is currently having his bath...he is seven years old now. I have no idea if he is the 8,7 or4 cell wonder but whatever he is he is the apple of our eye.
Good luck. DO NOT GIVE UP HOPE and rest, rest rest!
Thank you all for thinking of me.
I'm ok, I'm trying to keep my hopes very low. I know with a 7 and a 6 it's not great odds.
I'd have felt better if the 7 had been an 8. Because they're all a bit slow I suspect my 7 slowed down and stopped. The clinic seemed to think it may well go to an 8 but Ive started to think they just tell you what you want to hear.
Embryo transfer wasn't exactly smooth either. It took forever because the dr couldn't find where to put them. They went in and out the incubator and the tube twice. Not great.
So I know everything is against them.
I have a 2 cell 'slow' donor egg on board and have lost hope, I had a difficult transfer on my own egg cycle as I have a u bend in my uterus and its stuck down on one side, they had to change equipment a few times and had to do it blind as nothing was visible on the screen but they reassured me they wouldn't of gone ahead with the transfer unless they were 100% sure, they sedated me for this transfer so they could manhandle me a bit more getting in
When will you test?
Yes I have a u-bend uterus too! Shall we form a club?
I don't know. I might not bother testing. There seems no point. I might just pop into the clinic next Friday which is my testing day and then leave.
When is your date?
Have you got endo? Its a nightmare isn't it, I change clinics after my failed cycle and had a scratch, it was at the scratch he was completely flummoxed and said he won't do it without sedation, they paid for the sedation as it was there choice
My otd is 4th aug which is 18 dpo, I'm not gonna wait that long but its hardly of going to worked with a slow 2 cell, when's yours sorry?
Not as far as I know, just a funny tilted uterus. Our issue is male factor as far as we know.
Next Friday it my test date, 14 dpo.
Was your 2 cell a 2dt? If so it wasn't slow.
I'm 14 dpo on the thu, they told me it was slow, there was another but it fertilised then got stuck at the pronuclei stage and never developed the cells
Last year I had an own egg double transfer on a day 3 9 and 10 cell that didn't work so I'm not holding out much hope
Have you had any symptoms?
Your own eggs sound fine - people have success with that number of cells. Why have you had donor egg if you don't mind me asking? I'm only 4 dpt so probably too early for symptoms but I think anything at this stage is just caused by the progesterone anyway.
My FSH jumped to 23 so my second ivf got cancelled, the clinic need it to be under 10, I had had too much surgery on my ovaries and saw an endocrinologist who said it was early menopause, so we switched to donor expecting lots of good eggs and frosties and got 1, not when I expected at all
When do you think it would be possible to get a bfp or reliable bfn after a 3dt?
About a week after?
I'm starting to want to test! Even though I know it will be bfn. Then at least I can move on or try to.
10 dpo would be early to get a reliable answer, 12 dpo I think if you use an early test or 14 dpo with a normal (11 days past 3 day transfer)
I'm 7 days past a 2 day today
There's a website countdown to pregnancy (sorry I don't know how to link) it tells you what % of pregnant ladies got a BFP or BFN on each dpo
I look at it everyday!
I'm 8 dpo today.
5dp a 3dt.
I just want to know! Even though I already know in my heart anyway.
I have completely given up hope myself, when are you going to test? I'm going to try to wait til early next week at least
Have you had any signs at all?
Personally I wouldn't test too early. I tested 13dp 3d transfer and got bfn and some blood. It felt like my last chance and I was very down afterwards and got sloshed that night with my mum. Proper bf never arrived so tested again and bfp. Spent a lot of first trimester guilty about the alcohol intake (and guilty about all the flak my poor mum had to take that night). Basically if you test early and it's bfn you won't really believe it anyway and will probably keep testing just to make sure. Have everything crossed for you. Sounds like there is still a good chance.
No signs apart from what I can put down to the progesterone.
I just keep thinking if the others all died what's the chance that these didnt? Like if you buy 6 tvs and 4 are faulty? You wouldn't expect the remaining 2 to work either. Plus neither of them were 8 cell where they should have been, they were slow.
We are going away for a few days next week so hopefully I will be distracted.
I'm glad it worked out Cran x x
Tested again this morning with a cheapie - 9dpo (6dp3dt) and bfn. It was sensitive so know it would have picked up a bfp by now. I'm stopping progesterone and at least it means I can go swimming on holiday next week. Every cloud I guess...
The second failure has hit me harder than the first cycle.
Basically we've paid £10k for the world's most expensive period. Maybe my consultant was right. There isn't any hope. I know the chances are always against you but we aren't even getting close. All our embryos die before day 5. It's not like we are making it to blast. And even our 'best' ones are still crummy.
Is it time to give up and accept my gut feeling that I won't get pregnant?
So sorry to read this .
Can you take a break for a while? if there is anything else in your life causing you stress, can you sort that out before making a decision?
I changed roles at work after TTC for a couple of years, which made the rest of my life much less stressful. I also had acupuncture to help me relax etc.
At the moment I don't want to try again.
I don't think it will ever be successful.
We're just going to end up a lot poorer and more miserable.
9dpo is too early to write it off. There is still plenty of reason to hope. Everything crossed for you!
They are super sensitive tests and detect between 7-10dpo.
Sadly given that the embryos weren't great and were slow it looks much more likely that it hasn't worked.
I know logically that Im not the only one this happens to. I can see from this post that lots of people have trouble. But Im the only one of my friends that has had any problems. They've all got at least two and in several cases more than two children. Mainly two years apart (the perfect gap).
I don't believe in God anymore. Why do people that abuse their kids and neglect them have baby after baby after baby and then people that would be good parents really struggle?
Sorry your having such a hard time, but 9dpo is too early to write this one off. Everyone produces HCG differently and many people don't have adequate amounts to turn a test positive until quite late on in a cycle. Nevermind as early as 9dpo.
Try again in about 3 days and see. When are the clinic testing you?
Even if they are super sensitive its a fact that some people don't implant until 13dpo anyway so no early test could pick that up, late implantation plus a couple of days to start pumping hormones out
I have never tested positive before my period is due and once not until a week after it was due. Dont give up just yet, if you read the info on the tests they will say that a certain percentage of pregnancies can be detected at 7 days but that is usually around 50%, so that means that 50% of pregnancies wont be picked up early.
Keeping everything crossed.
I wouldn't stop progesterone yet. I had the faintest faintest line at 10dpo and everyone thought I was mad for testing so early. The next day I bled and I assumed it was all over. It was another week before I had a proper 'faint' positive on the cheapy sticks (which are actually more sensitive than a lot of others). I know tons of stories about people who don't test positive until they get clinic blood results back.
It may not have worked - but what if it has? You don't want to stop the progesterone too early. Thinking of you.
I will pick myself up but I will undoubtably feel sorry for myself for a few days first.
Yes I'm sure people are worse off but lots are better off too and it doesn't make me feel better knowing people are worse off anyway! It just makes me feel guilty.
Completely uncalled for, I'm sure there's plenty worse off than you too but that doesn't help your bitterness evidently
Sarah - what is the point of saying that? There's always someone worse off but the OP is going through real significant pain at the moment. This site is for supporting each other. Try it sometime.
I have reported your post sarah under the new guidelines, I realise I will probably get deleted as well as I c&p'd it but I can live with that.
Afternoon everyone. Just wanted to say thanks to all who've posted their advice, shared experiences and general support for the OP.
Don't want to be too heavy handed, but deleting one comment that has been reported as nasty (and the one where it's been copied - thanks for acknowledging this Bogeyface).
Hope things work out for you Sleepswithbutterflies and that you are well supported in RL too
OP i have every thing crossed for you, even though some test claim to be super sensitive and can test a week before a missed period I would give it to Friday ( i know easier said then done)
Please please keep on with the progesterone and keep in mind there's a reason why the clinic give you a test date and tell you not to test before (no matter how much you want to).
The most sensitive of tests can still not work that early, I used an ultra sensitive test 14days after a 3 day transfer and my positive result was still very faint.
Rooting for you.
Oh please, please keep up with the progesterone. I had heavy bleeding so did a test, yes the cheapie ones, 13d po (11d pt) and got a BFN. Wanted to stop but clinic insisted I carried on until d15 pt and get a blood test (weekend in the way) Kept testing every day just to torture myself, all BFN, blood test came back positive and day 16 POAS was finally positive. DS (my terrible dodgy looking embryo, the only one of 8 worth putting back at day 2) is now 21 months.
Its way too early to write it off, but I do get the feeling of wanting it to be over instead of having to carry on with a bit of hope.
10dpo (7dp3dt) BFN.
I am getting fat though so I look pregnant. Thanks progesterone for that.
I would prefer not to return to the clinic to be patronised by my consultant. We are going to look at donor blastocyst in Europe. Probably Spain.
We know dh has problems with the sperm and if my eggs are rubbish too it seems costly and pointless to keep trying the same thing over and over again.
Thanks everyone for your support and well wishes.
My test detects at 25mui - according to my net based research if I was pregnant it would easily be that by day 10.
You dont have to go back to the clinic, ever, but please carry on with the progesterone until your proper testing day at least.
How does your logic factor in with the fact some ladies don't even implant until 13dpo? If you were an early implanter yes it would pick up, but if you implanted at most popular time of 9dpo or later it wouldn't?
Look at it like this...if you think your embies were slow what makes you think they implanted early?
So what makes you think that BFN is accurate?
I haven't tested yet I'm going back to work early to save my sanity
We are going on holiday today so hopefully that'll take my mind off.
Good luck Lauren - you have more willpower then me.
I suppose it just feels like I'm kidding myself to think my BFN is wrong. It's far more likely I'm not pregnant. I don't feel pregnant.
Well you wouldn't feel pregnant if you hadn't implanted, most don't get symptoms until after a BFP, it takes a couple of days after implantation for hormones to start being pumped out
Countdown to pregnancy site says at 10 DPO 33% of ladies who turned out to be pregnant tested negative at that point
A sensitive test is 10 by the way so the one you used wasn't even the most sensitive
Have a great hol, don't lose hope, I have been ttc 7 years and I'm on my 3rd ivf I know how hard it is I really do x
I really hope you don't stop the progesterone, why would you reduce your own chances by your own avoidable actions? Especially after spending so much money? I would be giving those embryos every chance.
25miu is really not very sensitive at all and hardly anyone gets a positive so early. Don't go back to the clinic if that is how you feel, but I urge you not to self sabotage.
It's definitely possible to implant after day 10! And I was using 10miu tests when I had an early faint positive (which still pretty much disappeared the next day in weaker wee!).
You might not be pregnant but you MIGHT BE!
You're PUPO - pregnant until proven otherwise, all right?
I didn't feel pregnant until I felt the baby move at 20 weeks, some people just don't.
Good luck for the next few days!
The idiot poster yesterday was very rude but seeing as I'm in the same boat as you I think I'm qualified to say
Bloody pull yourself together woman!!
Don't give up let's keep each other going
Hugs to you sleeps, it's a tough road.
Fwiw we were refused ICSI and IVF as my DHs sperm were so bad, <5% alive, badly shaped, couldn't swim and died quickly.
We were TTCing for three years, and not a whisper of any pg. both on organic foods, yoga, no toxins, multi mineral and vitamins etc etc.
So, in my final cycle of TTCing we timed dtd for after all EWCM was gone, and I thought we had really missed the boat.
He had a strong cup of coffee before we dtd 2 days postovulation, I thought we would never conceive, but we did, after three years, and being refused by three clinics any ART. (Unless donor sperm).
I was ready to give up completely, and had accepted I wouldn't have a child.
If you're stopping prog because of hopelessness, please don't. You don't know yet, and I feel it would be limiting your chances if you do.
Wishing you a lovely holiday, and hope you and your DH can reconnect as human beings!! Also fingers crossed for you xxx
Your thread really struck a cord with me as I was in your position 7 years ago. I spent 5 years trying to get pregnant and had clomid cycles and IVF. On my 3rd frozen embryo cycle I was convinced it was going to be another negative as I had a spot of bleeding at a certain point of the cycle.
I phoned my boss in tears and couldn't go into work the next day. I went out with a friend and got hammered and smoked cigarettes (even though I didn't smoke normally). I even went to see the counsellor at the clinic and was really angry and upset with her. I spent the whole hour crying.
I was actually pregnant with twins. I hope this doesn't make you feel worse (I used to hate success stories with a passion). I understand that having hope is incredibly hard but you've got to give yourself a chance.
Have a good holiday. Try to relax. And keep up with the bleedin' progesterone.
Good luck OP
Keep positive! I too have been in your position. It's heartbreaking and so hard but you will get there. I am currently 11 weeks pregnant with our first baby and like you had some really dark, depressing days when I thought it wouldn't happen.
Sending you lots of love x
Also have you discussed extra things such as the endo scratch that helps with implantation and embryoscope. I did both this time, every little helps x
I got a BFN today
Hope you're doing ok Sleeps
Donor ivf #4 coming in 2015......
Very sorry to hear that Lauren83. Wishing you the very best of luck for the next round.
Thankyou its appreciated!
:-( sorry to hear Lauren - what will you do now? Will you have another go?
BFN here too unsurprisingly. I think my gut feeling re not getting pregnant is right and I don't know if I can bring myself to spend all that money again. Maybe it's just not meant to be?
Oh sorry just reread - will you do the donor cycle in the uk?
Sorry to hear your news too Sleeps.
Are you able to take some time off so you and your partner can have some time together? Maybe don't make any decisions just yet but just take a break to recover and enjoy some time with your partner. Remind yourself that life is about more than trying to get pregnant.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
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