Do I mention this.

(57 Posts)
wakeupandsmellthecoffee Tue 03-Jun-14 21:35:32

Long story .I work in a school .A friend was in school over half term .A holiday club is run from the school building but is an independent company
Friend saw one of the children that she knows attends school returning too the club at lunchtime in a club staff members car .
She was worried about insurance and this child has certain special needs that can make him controlling .She mentioned this to me at lunchtime today.
I asked child about half term this morning and what he had been up to .He mentioned holiday club .I asked if he enjoyed it and what sort of things they do there.
He said it was good and that he went to a local shop with so and so to pick something up .I said oh does mum know he said no but it was ok as they were her friend .I said oh ok .
Now with my friend mentioning it and asking does she need to do anything I'm asking wise mumsnetters what they think .

A . it's holiday club so not schools business.
B .It just dosnt sit right with me as in what if something happened while they are out 're car .
C .Not my business.
So do I need to do anything or not Help please advice me .TIA

mindthegap79 Tue 03-Jun-14 21:42:05

Hmmm, sounds dodgy to me. I'm a teacher and occasionally drive children to events like football matches etc - on school business. But I have business insurance, always have written parental permission and never just one child unless I'm with a colleague.

Driving to the shop? Wtaf. Please speak to the school about it - they may want to reconsider leasing the premesis to this holiday club. As a parent, I'd be furious if that was my child. Totally irresponsible.

wakeupandsmellthecoffee Tue 03-Jun-14 21:45:41

It just didn't seem right and I can't articulate why . If I was mum I would want to know as you say .But am I taking this too far because it was holiday club not school .thanks MTG

Canus Tue 03-Jun-14 21:46:18

But you don't know what happened by the sound of it, and neither does your friend.

The child's parents may know all about it, whatever the child says.

They could have been running the child home and back, or to a pharmacy, a pre arranged trip/appointment, anything.

Coldlightofday Tue 03-Jun-14 21:48:35

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

wakeupandsmellthecoffee Tue 03-Jun-14 21:50:51

Canus he told me he went to Londis to pick something up . It's just that if something happens in the future regarding this because I know about it I am in a way part of the problem if it's wrong .

Roseformeplease Tue 03-Jun-14 21:51:48

I think you are over- reacting. They went to the shop - not really an issue.

Coldlightofday Tue 03-Jun-14 21:52:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

wakeupandsmellthecoffee Tue 03-Jun-14 21:56:10

Car insurance for one .
Safe guarding for another.
Volatile outbursts from the child due to his special needs .

Coldlightofday Tue 03-Jun-14 21:59:39

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

misssmapp Tue 03-Jun-14 21:59:43

I'd mention to the Child Protection officer - it is a potential safeguarding issue and they will be able to make the next steps re talking to the holiday club.

maddy68 Tue 03-Jun-14 22:04:04

I think you're over reacting too. I teach my friends children. I regulatory give them a lift. It's with her consent. Why would Any one else know?
It would occur to me to inform anyone about it.

zumby Tue 03-Jun-14 22:04:23

It is not right. It doesn't mean anything has happened, but you cannot be too careful in looking after children.

Rules, policies and procedures mean that staff members should not be left alone with children in areas where they cannot reasonably expect to be overseen by colleagues or parents etc.

What would happen to this staff member if that child made an allegation?

What would happen to the school if this happened?

you definitely need to report it - to the manager of the setting, and if they do not take it seriously, to ofsted. If you want impartial advice, phone your local authority and ask to speak to the safeguarding officer for advice.

wakeupandsmellthecoffee Tue 03-Jun-14 22:04:44

Safeguarding .is just that .Safeguarding .
This child has particular complex issues and you have to know him extremely well and know what his triggers are.
If you misjudge this the consequences can be dire and potentiality on a realistic note life-threatening .

mindthegap79 Tue 03-Jun-14 22:06:17

Yes I'd be furious if my child was being driven around without my knowledge or permission by the person I was paying to care for them. As a teacher I wouldn't dream of doing that. What if your child's teacher decided to pop to the shop on their lunchbreak and take your child along? I can just imagine how that would go down in my school - why should a holiday club have a different standard?

Coldlightofday Tue 03-Jun-14 22:06:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Coldlightofday Tue 03-Jun-14 22:09:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HolidayCriminal Tue 03-Jun-14 22:10:01

Sticky Beak out, OP.

wakeupandsmellthecoffee Tue 03-Jun-14 22:13:33

Please don't insult me by calling me a sticky beak .Totally unnecessary and rather mean .
If you want to pass on your opinion that is gratefully received but personal insults are not needed thank you

Oakmaiden Tue 03-Jun-14 22:16:38

I would ASSUME, if I had seen this, that the member of staff was charged with supervising the child at the club, due to his SEN. And that this may be an informal arrangement, what with the member of staff being a friend of the mum. And that it might have been better that the child stay with the member of staff as she undertook her errand, than remain at the club unsupervised.

You don't really know the arrangements, your informant doesn't really know either. Presumably there were several people at the club, and they are all aware of safeguarding procedures. I have to be honest, if I were you my lack of knowledge about the whole setup would make me leave this one...

HolidayCriminal Tue 03-Jun-14 22:22:26

If you think it's a personal insult then please ask MNHQ to remove.
I thought it was a pretty mild comment. hmm But happy to let them adjudicate.

wakeupandsmellthecoffee Tue 03-Jun-14 22:22:46

Thank you Oakmaiden I appreciate what your saying .It's because I know this child extremely well .(three years 5days a week ) I do feel responsible for him .But as you say I don't know enough so mm maybe leave this alone .On a positive note no more school holidays for 6 more weeks .

afterthought Tue 03-Jun-14 22:24:00

Oakmaiden's suggestion seems plausible. At a recent Guide event, a girl with SEN had an adult helper come just for her - she is trained to deal with her needs. The girl went wherever the helper did - much better for the girl to be with someone familiar.

The child in the OP said his mum knew the worker - so could well be that she is assigned to him.

wakeupandsmellthecoffee Tue 03-Jun-14 22:28:39

They don't have to adjudicate .It was rude
.You were trying to insinuate that I was a busy body sticking my nose in and stiring up trouble .
I stated my reasons of concern which any professional would think about .
I asked for opinions.I did not ask for you to come on and be rude
.If you had said I don't think you should do anything .That's an opinion .

hesterton Tue 03-Jun-14 22:33:06

Surely for example social workers take children unaccompanied in their cars sometimes. You shouldn'twithout proper procedures in place but I wouldtend to assume they were in place. Ask the mum.

BrianTheMole Tue 03-Jun-14 22:36:05

No harm in mentioning it to the mum in passing if you're worried. I would. I wouldn't have a problem with others mentioning to me either, even if it was completely legit. I wouldn't think they were being nosey, just concerned. Theres no problem with that.

wakeupandsmellthecoffee Tue 03-Jun-14 22:37:32

Thanks ladies all your points make sense .The bigger picture .I think I will just leave it though.

NeedsAsockamnesty Tue 03-Jun-14 22:39:50

If this person is the mums friend why on earth wouldn't they tell the mother they went off with the child?

HolidayCriminal Tue 03-Jun-14 22:44:40

I really wish on Mn we had the option to completely blank out some posters msgs.

Coldlightofday Tue 03-Jun-14 22:50:44

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mindthegap79 Wed 04-Jun-14 07:27:23

Yes, which ones?

LottieJenkins Wed 04-Jun-14 07:39:51

Some children at the school/college that my ds2 attends have to have two staff with them in the car/minibus in case they have a violent outburst.

FourForksAche Wed 04-Jun-14 07:43:50

I'd mention it to the school, they're in a position to either reassure you or sort the problem out.

AramintaDeWinter Wed 04-Jun-14 07:58:58

I think your concern is entirely reasonable, and as a school employee you do have a safeguarding duty - as you know but other posters here may not understand.
I'd tell your line manager, that would be enough to fulfil your safeguarding duty, probably best to put it in writing.

QuizzicalCat Wed 04-Jun-14 08:05:17

Agree with Araminta.

lifesavingnoodles Wed 04-Jun-14 08:09:41

id mention it to the school, for your own peace of mind.

if everything is above board then thats terrific
if, as you suspect, it isnt....then the right people know.

I work as a CM and i have to consider these type of things on a daily basis. I would be perfectly happy to be challenged about any of my decisions....becuase I dont do anything I shouldnt.

mindthegap79 Wed 04-Jun-14 08:23:56

Quite right. You have a safeguarding duty to notify your cp officer or the head, then you can happily forget it. It's up to them to judge whether they need to take it any further or not. I'm the child protection officer at my school - all you need to do is tell them.

JennyCalendar Wed 04-Jun-14 08:26:19

I'd pass it on to the Child Protection Officer at school. They can then make the call about what to do and you can have a clear conscience.

riskit4abiskit Wed 04-Jun-14 08:32:56

Totally report to child p officer in school. Better safe than sorry in all situations although this one sounds dodgy to me.

BeckAndCall Wed 04-Jun-14 08:45:36

Presumably if the child had been signed into the holiday club by the mum, she will have had a full list of activities and circumstances that would apply ( including whether or not he can go in a helpers car).

The holiday club will also have had a full disclosure of the child's SN as part of the sign up process.

The holiday club helpers will have had a full CRB check and may also have accredited competencies in childcare care ( eg NVQs)

My instinct would be to assume that all of the above apply - full disclosure, CRBs etc and that there was therefore nothing to worry about.

AramintaDeWinter Wed 04-Jun-14 08:53:07

My instinct would be to assume that all of the above apply - full disclosure, CRBs etc and that there was therefore nothing to worry about.

Sadly that has been the attitude of many child care professionals and family friends and acquaintances of children dying in the most horrific circumstances in the past - people assume everything must be above board so say nothing.
In this situation we don't know whether there was a breach of anything, which is why the OP who has a concern, is under a duty to inform someone.

AramintaDeWinter Wed 04-Jun-14 08:56:39

I suspect that what happened is that one care worker had to go to the shop, that meant that in her temporary absence the rest of the group was under-staffed in terms of cater:child ratios so she took the child she knew personally to restore the correct ratio at the club.

Gubbins Wed 04-Jun-14 11:21:29

There are no possible downsides to you reporting. If it's all above board, the club aren't going to accuse you of being a 'sticky beak'. They'll be au fait with safeguarding issues, recognise why it may look concerning and be able to reassure you that everything's ok.

And if it's not all ok, you could avert a serious incident or be giving the management the opportunity to correct procedures that could result in real problems with ofsted. It's a no brainer.

ChickyEgg Wed 04-Jun-14 12:09:21

Don't you have a reporting procedure in your school, Op? Who is your Line Manager? Ask their advice.

MidniteScribbler Wed 04-Jun-14 12:21:18

My car insurance is actually paid for by work (along with the insurance of the other year coordinators) as I am lead supervisor on most class trips/camps relating to our grade or some other activities. This is in case there is an accident or illness or other incident on the excursion. I also get ridiculously bus sick so it means I can drive and it doesn't ruin my credibility with the students. My car is legally covered and insured to transport students in an official capacity.

If you work in the school, surely you having a quiet word to whoever is responsible for the holiday club would be the first step? At our school it would be a case of an informal chat (to find out the facts) before taking it any further. In most cases, that informal chat would be enough for the person responsible to take it further if there was evidence of wrongdoing.

GhoulWithADragonTattoo Wed 04-Jun-14 12:30:22

I think you should report it too. If it's all legit then no harm done.

mythbustinggov Wed 04-Jun-14 12:35:45

Rule 1 of Safeguarding - in in doubt, speak out.

The school (and the holiday club) should be fine with this - if not, then the school should consider it's lettings policy.

mythbustinggov Wed 04-Jun-14 12:36:13

Bottom. If in doubt

wakeupandsmellthecoffee Fri 06-Jun-14 17:40:37

Just to update I saw holiday club manager today and I mentioned it to her.She was away last week so didn't know .She was horrified and she is going to deal with it.

FourForksAche Fri 06-Jun-14 17:54:36

that's great news wakeup, you did the right thing. wine

Imsuchamess Fri 06-Jun-14 18:01:23

Glad you reported it.

Valdeeves Fri 06-Jun-14 18:07:48

Anything to do with children that seems odd needs reporting - you were right.

GhoulWithADragonTattoo Fri 06-Jun-14 19:12:07

Well done for reporting it. It sounds as though the manager will investigate it properly.

wakeupandsmellthecoffee Fri 06-Jun-14 19:43:05

She was very cross and thanked me perfusely for telling her .When I mentioned it was a friend of mum's she knew exactly who it was .I do feel lots better for passing this on .

BrianTheMole Fri 06-Jun-14 21:30:35

There you go then. Well done op.

LuluJakey1 Fri 06-Jun-14 21:36:49

I think you should report it to the Designated Safeguarding Teacher.

It comes under the whistleblowing policy most schools have in relation to safeguarding. If you have a concern, report it. It is better to be wrong than to have been right and not reported it and a child has been put at risk. It will be dealt with discreetly and closed down if it is unfounded.

LuluJakey1 Fri 06-Jun-14 21:39:02

Oops sorry x post! Well done for reporting it.

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