To be furious at swimming pool regulars who think they own the bloody pool. To the point of kicking a disabled child?

(316 Posts)
Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 13:40:45

Dont know who I am angrier with. Myself or the middle aged woman swimming in the local pool apparently doing her daily 50 lengths of breast stroke, when we (the interlopers) dared to be in her way and which gave her the right to kick a 5 year old disabled boy in the chest!

FFS she came up behind us so definitely saw us. I was holding a child festooned in buoyancy aids, (so both arms needed) and facing away from her so I didnt see her. The first thing I knew she kicked/or hit me lightly then with the next stroke kicked out strongly and I felt the childs body rock against me. Luckily he is a tough nut and just looked a bit shocked.

AIBU to want to rip her fucking head off? No apology, no acknowledgement despite being fully aware she hit us!

I just stood there like a wimp feeling it was my fault for being in 'her' pool angry

You know that thing where you do/say nothing at the time, but rage and vent afterwards? Well I am venting!

AuditAngel Sat 24-May-14 13:43:41

YANBU (and you know it grin

The not having a go at them straight away? It is called shock (and sometimes good manners, but I don't suffer those in a situation like this!)

I hope he's OK and not put off swimming.

Mrsmorton Sat 24-May-14 13:43:52

If she was just going up and down up and down, then you should have been able to see that you would be in her way. She shouldn't have kicked you deliberately though.

Aboyandabunny Sat 24-May-14 13:47:20

The same brigade stopped children having private lessons at our local pool on Satudays and Sundays given by the swimming teachers until parents threatened to stop using the pool for the lucrative (for the council) after school swimming groups.

OwlCapone Sat 24-May-14 13:48:55

Were you in an area reserved for "proper" swimming?

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 13:49:58

mrs morton. we were facing in the direction she was heading to so she was behind us. She saw us but we could not see her. It was the complete lack of humanity that makes me furious.

OwlCapone Sat 24-May-14 13:51:10

As she was doing breaststroke, I seriously doubt she deliberately kicked you and was simply swimming.

I think the phrase "kicking a disabled child" is misleading.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 13:51:32

There was no area for proper swimming. It was the pool we were told to use by the lifeguards as there were lessons in the other pool.

OwlCapone Sat 24-May-14 13:51:56

And, if I'm honest, the fact that your DS I s disabled is irrelevant to your complaint.

GreenEyedGoblin Sat 24-May-14 13:52:32

If you were in the swimming lanes then YABU.

If not, YANBU to be annoyed...but I do think maybe a bit OTT. Much more likely IMO that she misjudged how far behind her you were and it was an accident than her purposefully kicking a disabled boy in the chest.

TheFairyCaravan Sat 24-May-14 13:52:33

Bitch! <her not you>

Silvercatowner Sat 24-May-14 13:53:29

The pool should have had lanes sectioned off for serious length swimming. She shouldn't've kicked you, but it is extremely irritating when you are trying to swim lengths and people are just bobbing about in front of you.

GreenEyedGoblin Sat 24-May-14 13:54:10

Or ANY child for that matter. I also think your dc being disabled is not relevant.

I would be just as annoyed if I thought that an adult kicked ANY child purposely, never mind what needs they may have.

OwlCapone Sat 24-May-14 13:59:12

The pool I used to go to had a flat bottomed pool for recreational swimming and lessons and a square standard pool for "proper" swimming. If the recreational swimmers had been made to use the other pool, I think the "proper" swimmers would have been rightly annoyed unless lanes had been set up for proper swimming (which is how I've seen it done on most places).

The complaint should be with the pool management who haven't segregated the pool to avoid clashes like yours.

PsychologicalSaline Sat 24-May-14 14:01:03

That's shocking and YANBU.

I swim regularly and use the dedicated lanes when I can. If I am at the pool when there are no lessons for non-recreational swimming then I only swim breaststroke and swim around recreational swimmers with care!

If it was only you (plus DC) and the other woman in the pool and you could see where she was repeatedly swimming up and down then it would be only courteous not to move in to the 'lane' where she was swimming.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 14:03:39

there were no swimming lanes. Even though its annoying when you are trying to swim lengths, you simply dont kick people because they are in your way.

Im not saying she did it deliberately but that she showed no common courtesy not to kick other pool users. No apology after a kick strong enough to push both of us backwards in the water.

It was the horrible arrogant way she didnt even acknowledge us or what she had done. 'My' pool.... you shouldnt be here, attitude!

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 14:06:49

The pool just had a few swimmers like her and a few children and parents (school inset day) so not busy. If I see someone swimming I would move out of their way, but I was facing the opposite direction, therefore to me the onus was on her to swim round us.

The other length swimmers were courteous and everyone, including me, avoided the other swimmers.

SoulJacker Sat 24-May-14 14:06:58

I know quite a few people who swim 'blind' as they take glasses off for swimming so I wouldn't assume that she definitely saw you.

comedaygoday Sat 24-May-14 14:07:34

YANBU

And you weren't a wimp, just shocked and polite.

OwlCapone Sat 24-May-14 14:08:02

Im not saying she did it deliberately but that she showed no common courtesy not to kick other pool users.

If you think she should show courtesy not to kick other users you are saying she did it deliberately. Accidents have nothing to do with courtesy. She misjudged how far she was from you, that's all.

It doesn't take a lot to push someone back in a pool as you have very little balance when in the water.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 14:11:42

I just want to turn the clock back and stand in her way on her next length. Stop her and ask why she thinks she owns the pool, and what gives her the right to kick other swimmers, including young children (disabled or otherwise)?

Sigh.....but as usual the moment is passed and I feel better now I've said it because next time I wont be polite and apologetic in similar circumstances.

For some strange reason, holding a disabled child made me feel invisible, insignificant and vulnerable sad

There won't be a next time though angry

Madmum24 Sat 24-May-14 14:14:00

YANBU, this really bothers me! I take mine swimming in the mornings (we home educate) and despite there being not one, but two designated swimming lanes there is a group of people who insist on creating their own "lanes" and tut and give catsbum face looks to anyone who is "in their way".

TheFairyCaravan Sat 24-May-14 14:14:10

She might not have seen the OP, but in whose world is it okay to kick someone and not apologise? She would have felt it, so she should have said sorry, or raised her hand or something! There is absolutely no excuse for it, it's just bad manners!

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 14:14:12

Owl. Not quite understanding. Are you saying if you do something accidentally to harm someone else you dont need to apologise?

It was a very strong kick out from the breast stroke with her foot. It WAS forceful. She knew she had done it.

Viviennemary Sat 24-May-14 14:14:56

I wasn't there but it is possible that she genuinely didn't see you. But she should have apologised. You should have reported her. I can't be bothered with the etiquette of public swimming pools unless I'm the only one there.

PsychologicalSaline Sat 24-May-14 14:15:32

Absolutely. No excuse at all for kicking anyone, ever (or scratching - and I have been scratched by woman with talons for nails doing breaststroke without apology). However, surely if you are in a public pool and walking backwards while holding a child then you should take care to be aware of where you are backing in to?

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 14:15:49

And as for not wearing glasses in the pool. I used to have extremely poor vision before lens implants, but I could most certainly make out the shape of another person. This woman would have needed to have been quite blind not to have seen us.

Lottiedoubtie Sat 24-May-14 14:18:17

If she was both swimming breaststroke and behind you I don't understand how the kick occurred? Her legs would have been behind her arms which would have been behind you.

GreenEyedGoblin Sat 24-May-14 14:19:29

And as for not wearing glasses in the pool. I used to have extremely poor vision before lens implants, but I could most certainly make out the shape of another person

Good for you. I have a very, very high prescription (-14).

If I didn't have my glasses or contacts, you could be standing ten centimetres away from me and i'd only be able to make out a blurry blob, which may or may not be a person.

SpottieDottie Sat 24-May-14 14:19:44

I regularly swim and do so without my glasses, even if you don't see a person you can apologise if you kick them. You'd have to be very blind not to see somebody in front of you, you might not recognise them but you would see them - I can't recognise my own children at a distance without my glasses so I am very short sighted but I can tell a person is there.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 14:20:49

Psycho. I wasnt walking backwards I was just standing there. she came up behind us and was close enough to kick us.

There are a few swimming pool regulars who do think they own the place but that day there were a few others who just spoke to us and smiled and chatted. They swam round us or we moved if we saw them.

Just want to turn back the clock and rip her head off!

Whathaveiforgottentoday Sat 24-May-14 14:22:50

YANBU to be upset she kicked you and didn't apologise. Even if it was a mistake, surely she could have apologised.
However, if she was swimming up and down in a straight line and I assume not right down the middle of the pool, you should have know you were in her way. Its a real pain going round somebody as it stops the rhythm of your stroke as generally you have to stop then start again. The management of the pool may be the ones in the wrong here as they should be provide separate lanes for swimming so everybody is happy.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 14:22:53

Lottie. She swam very very close to us. Less than an arms length away so unfortunately for us, not a legs length away.

Silvercatowner Sat 24-May-14 14:23:48

"Rip her head off'??? It was just a kick. It happens all the time. Yes she was rude but you sound a charmer.

GreenEyedGoblin Sat 24-May-14 14:23:56

You are being hysterical.

Your title indicates she did it on purpose. Now are you saying it was an accident and that she just didn't apologise?

For such a forceful kick i'm assuming your dc is bruised?

TheFairyCaravan Sat 24-May-14 14:24:41

GreenEyed Even without your glasses you would have felt the impact of your foot against the OP's child, no?

I can't believe the excuses on here. The woman was rude, she kicked a child, she should have apologised. If she wants to swim in a private pool she should build one, if she can't afford it, she should learn some bloody manners before her next swim in a public pool!

CoffeeTea103 Sat 24-May-14 14:25:39

Yes you are being hysterical. Yanbu for wanting her to apologise but you are trying to make it sound worse than it probably is. If you knew she was doing 50 laps why go and stand in her way in the first place.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 14:27:10

She was swimming in a straight line but it was a pretty small pool and there were people just dotted about so you couldnt really see where one particular person was anyway. Also we hadnt been in for very long so not even aware of who was swimming where.

As she was the one with visual contact, to me she should have avoided us. I do understand though thats its annoying to want to swim unimpeded.

But as this type of swimmer usually has the pool to themselves with no kids around except in school holidays and can enjoy the freedom others dont have, surely when children are there they can be a little less territorial?

annebullin Sat 24-May-14 14:29:05

Even if she didn't see you she would have known that she made contact. What a rude woman.

sarinka Sat 24-May-14 14:29:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

annebullin Sat 24-May-14 14:30:11

'If you knew she was doing 50 laps why go and stand in her way in the first place.'

The op wasn't 'in her way' she was using a public pool for it's intended use.

iK8 Sat 24-May-14 14:31:19

The woman might not have seen the OP but she would definitely have felt her.

Horrible woman.

Whathaveiforgottentoday Sat 24-May-14 14:31:35

Perhaps you should get a private pool so you can stand in any part of the way without the worry of getting in the way of people trying to get fit who would like to be able to swim up and down a pool without having to constantly stop because people are standing in the way.
I think you are both unreasonable.
People should be able to use their local pool to keep fit.

iK8 Sat 24-May-14 14:33:05

Yeah op, why don't you just not go out and sit at home so you don't inconvenience any selfish people who don't even have the manners to apologise for kicking someone?

WHERE DO YOU GET OFF?

oh, hang on a minute, I've not engaged my brain yet today...

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 14:34:18

Sarinka. I was facing away from her. She came up behind me. How could I have taken more care.

The pool is not reserved for 'proper' swimmers. Its a public pool.

Kicking a disabled child may be emotive, but its what she did! Should I leave that bit out because its emotive? Kicking anyone especially a child is a disgusting thing to do. She was a chunky strong muscular woman, the disabled child in question is physically weak, but I shouldnt mention that because its emotive?

TheFairyCaravan Sat 24-May-14 14:35:11

People should be able to use their local pool to keep fit.

My 2 teen DSes swim for fitness, they don't go on a Saturday morning when there might be children and families there who are swimming for fun, and have just as much right to be there as everyone else!

annebullin Sat 24-May-14 14:35:23

'People should be able to use their local pool to keep fit.'

Yes and people should be able to use their pool if they are learning to swim also.

OwlCapone Sat 24-May-14 14:35:49

Just want to turn back the clock and rip her head off!

Do you usually have this level of anger towards accidents? You are beginning to sound worse than the woman who accidentally kicked you whilst swimming past.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 14:36:15

I was not standing in her way. I couldnt SEE her! She could most certainly see me!

annebullin Sat 24-May-14 14:36:58

But op..she was a 'proper swimmer' so takes priority don't you know.

OwlCapone Sat 24-May-14 14:36:58

Kicking a disabled child may be emotive, but its what she did!

Except she didn't really kick him in the way that implies, did she? She accidentally did it whilst swimming in a swimming pool.

bruffin Sat 24-May-14 14:37:18

I very much doubt she kicked intentionally. I have kicked the walk and damaged my toes doung breast stroke. It is very difficult to deliberately kick someone intentionally when swimming.

magoria Sat 24-May-14 14:37:25

Did she know your child was disabled and deliberately kick him?

Did she even know her foot caught a child and not you?

I have both kicked and been kicked in pools it is just part of moving limbs.

Yes an apology would be nice but I think you have milked your title to make it sound a deliberate and vicious attack on a disabled child.

Hairylegs47 Sat 24-May-14 14:37:49

The things folk are coming up with as excuses for the swimmers awful behaviour are more shocking than the original 'offence'. The woman kicked a kid in the pool, but that's ok cos she couldn't see/OP was in her way/OP was standing with her back to her/she was swimming laps.
Change the setting to a Main Street pavement, the OP has the temerity to be in said woman's way, so she accidentally kicks the child on the way past.

OP, YANBU at all. Let it be hunt her down, stake out the pool, and stalk her and just keep enjoying the time you have with your DC. It shocked you, her behaviour, but just forget her. If you are at the pool the next time as someone's doing laps but just in the regular part of the pool, stay calm and swim on! wink You have as much right to be there are they do.

OwlCapone Sat 24-May-14 14:38:27

CBA with all the frothing here.

OwlCapone Sat 24-May-14 14:38:42

It was an accident. Get over it.

OwlCapone Sat 24-May-14 14:40:09

Change the setting to a Main Street pavement, the OP has the temerity to be in said woman's way, so she accidentally kicks the child on the way past.

Don't be so ridiculous. The equivalent would be accidentally bumping into them. She didn't kick out at the child, she was swimming.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 14:40:54

Owl. Unfortunately at the time I did not express anger or frustration, which is why I am so angry now. Not just her actions, but my own lack of action which permitted someone to continue to think that they own a public pool and can kick children who are there. Unfortunately my natural politeness and others like me allow arrogent people to behave like this.

She may have been swimming for fitness, but the disabled child with me was also there for therapeutic reasons as well as fun!

annebullin Sat 24-May-14 14:40:54

Yes the equivalent would be accidentally bumping into someone, but surely you would apologise?

bruffin Sat 24-May-14 14:44:33

Op
What has having a disabled child got do with it
It wss an accident get over it.

TheTerribleBaroness Sat 24-May-14 14:46:06

If you didn't speak to each other, how do you know she was a regular doing her daily 50 laps?

A woman, probably accidently, kicked you and DS whilst swimming. She is wrong for not apologising. Try not to stress about it anymore as you seem to be letting previous feelings about the pool cloud the issue.

The pool should really have areas sectioned off. I would mention it to the management. I also think that you mentioning DS is disabled is important as it highlights the importance of going swimming for him and that he needs to feel secure in the water. Being regularly kicked will undermine his confidence.

SpringyReframed Sat 24-May-14 14:46:27

Why do have to say "middle aged woman"? WTF has age got to do with it? Also why has her "daily lengths" of "breast stroke" got to be mentioned? If she had been a 20 year old training for a Triathalon would that have been better for you?

The tone of your post is very unpleasant. Are you sure you werent deliberately getting in her way?

OwlCapone Sat 24-May-14 14:46:38

Compare these two questions:

1) AIBU to think you should apologise if you accidentally kick someone in a swimming pool?
2) AIBU to want to rip the fucking head off the woman who kicked my disabled child in the swimming pool?

1) perfectly reasonable and sane
2) utterly bonkers and well over the top.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 14:47:17

I didnt say she did it deliberately, ever. But commonsense tell you if you are kicking out in the direction of other users and children you take evasive action. It was her arrogent attitude of 'get out of my way'. I dont have to avoid you, you have to avoid me, that has angered me!

It was the lack of apology or even acknowledgement that is annoying.

Whathaveiforgottentoday Sat 24-May-14 14:47:27

Of course you have a right to be angry so people agreed with you at the start of the thread then you mentioned you like to rip her head off and suddenly you don't sound so reasonable. She kicked you which was probably an accident, she should of apologised to which she is definitely BU, but everybody needs to respect others right to enjoy and use public swimming baths.

TheTerribleBaroness Sat 24-May-14 14:48:11

In fact, the more I think about it, the pool is at fault for not providing safe zones for the different swimmers.

Lottiedoubtie Sat 24-May-14 14:48:39

Lottie. She swam very very close to us. Less than an arms length away so unfortunately for us, not a legs length away.

Sarinka. I was facing away from her. She came up behind me. How could I have taken more care.

I was not standing in her way. I couldnt SEE her! She could most certainly see me!

I repeat. She couldn't have kicked you if it happened in the way you describe. If she could see you, and was swimming towards you how on earth did she kick you?

She might have kicked you as she swam away from you? In which case, you were moving and she couldn't see you. So if it happened, it was an accident.

Although yes, if it happened she should have apologised.

ChelsyHandy Sat 24-May-14 14:49:12

I'm sure she didn't do it deliberately, breaststroke is quite a forceful stroke and perhaps she didn't have full sensitivity in her foot or leg and was disabled herself?

But swimming pools are for swimming in, and if you are carer to a disabled child, surely its your duty to avoid placing him in a position in the swimming pool where he is going to get kicked by people swimming up and down? People swimming lengths usually go up and down in a straight line, so they're not that hard to spot.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 14:49:58

Yes I was deliberately getting in her way because I like to have a child kicked. Man, woman, teenager, old, young, of course it doesnt matter. If Id said young man, would the response be different? confused

BarbaraPalmer Sat 24-May-14 14:51:30

yes, her manners could have been better, but in an open-to-all swim session you will invariably get splashed, bumped and kicked. it's par for the course.

TheTerribleBaroness Sat 24-May-14 14:51:41

Yes. Because then we would have needed to know if he was fit and looked good in trunks. grin

Silvercatowner Sat 24-May-14 14:51:58

On occasion I have tried to kick people who get in my way (mostly muscly guys doing butterfly, not disabled kids.....). It's actually really hard to kick someone with any accuracy when you are swimming.

OwlCapone Sat 24-May-14 14:52:02

I didnt say she did it deliberately, ever. But commonsense tell you if you are kicking out in the direction of other users and children you take evasive action. It was her arrogent attitude of 'get out of my way'. I dont have to avoid you, you have to avoid me, that has angered me!

"Deliberately" is implied by the phrasing you used though. Also, common sense should tell you that, if you are sharing a pool with serious lane swimmers you take evasive action and keep an eye out for them. There is also a certain arrogance in assuming she has to avoid you. Both of you were in the way of the other. If I am in a pool with serious lane swimmers, I keep an eye out around me.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 14:52:15

Oh well. Lottie. If you say so. I am a liar and we didnt get kicked ........even more confused

Ok so I have never ripped anyones head off and I never would. I would have asked her politely if she was aware of kicking us and pointed out it was a public pool.

allcatsaregrey Sat 24-May-14 14:52:33

I can't believe people are excusing this woman. it is never acceptable to kick a child. if it was an accident she should have apologised profusely. I am also the invisible parent of an invisible disabled child and swimming is the one thing that he enjoys in his life where he is excluded from just about everything else that other kids get to enjoy. I would have been raging as well.

Icimoi Sat 24-May-14 14:53:09

Lottie, I was assuming the kick happened as she swam past? My feeling is that she misjudged how close she could swim. Pure accident, but she should have apologised.

FurkleLurkle Sat 24-May-14 14:53:54

It could have been 'accidentally on purpose' or it could have been because her goggles were steamed up. I would suspect the former or I think she would have apologised.

On the one hand, she is being unreasonable to expect to swim lengths as unimpeded as if she was in lanes. I would have apologised if I'd kicked someone in those circumstances (although I might have been less polite if someone had been ambling about in a lane).

On the other hand, I think you were also a bit unreasonable to get in the pool and then simply wander into her trajectory without a second thought. No rules against standing where you like in a public pool with no lanes but it would have been considerate not to stop just where you could see she was swimming. If there were other people bobbing about that she was already avoiding, could you not have aligned with them?

Trillions Sat 24-May-14 14:55:04

So really you're angry with yourself for handling this badly? Perhaps you should have suggested to the lifeguard that they rope off a lane for adult swimming. YABU and OTT.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 14:56:24

Chelsy. thank you for pointing out that breaststroke is a 'forceful stroke'. Thats precisely why the kick was forceful and uncomfortable.

Owl. please dont continue with the 'you have implied references.

You have implied throughout that it is right to kick other people in a swimming pool who are unaware of your presence and not even acknowledge or apologise their actions.

CoffeeTea103 Sat 24-May-14 14:57:14

Yes it probably as she was passing you that she kicked, which means that her hands passed you without touching, so surely you were aware she was there and taken a step back?

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 15:02:21

furk. I was concentrating all my efforts to hold DGS who had umpteen swimming aids on and is awkward to hold, I was not gazing serenely around me looking out for regular swimmers.

Coffee. I couldnt have taken a step back as I felt her touch me (arm I guess) then followed immediately by a kick into DGSs chest. Literally a second or two to react.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 15:06:31

the pool is relatively small and the laned pool being used for swimming lessons, so I guess the regular swimmers were in this pool. Too small I think to rope anything off.

I certainly was unaware of this woman swimming, or i would have avoided her as I did for the other swimmers, and parents with toddlers and babies.

OwlCapone Sat 24-May-14 15:07:09

Owl. please dont continue with the 'you have implied references.

Why? Will you rip my fucking head off? I said that the deliberate nature was implied by the way it was phrased. Which it was. I'm free to voice my opinions thanks.

You have implied throughout that it is right to kick other people in a swimming pool who are unaware of your presence and not even acknowledge or apologise their actions.

No, I have implied that accidents happen.

ChelsyHandy Sat 24-May-14 15:07:14

So yes YABU for getting annoyed at people swimming in swimming pools.

And for not looking out for your disabled child with vigorously kicking swimmers out. What with that woman swimming in a swimming pool and everything. And for your lack of awareness of other people's rights to use said swimming pool without making them aware of your exclusion zone and disabled child first.

amicissimma Sat 24-May-14 15:08:03

How do you know she was a regular?

How do you know she thinks she owns the pool?

Are you sure she didn't catch your DC by accident?

Are you sure she didn't apologise as she passed but you didn't hear it in the general hubbub of the pool?

What difference does it make that your DC has a disability? Is it OK to kick other children?

It takes two to collide: one to make a mistake and the other not to avoid the collision.

biscuiteer Sat 24-May-14 15:08:04

Owl In my opinion it isn't particularly thoughtful to use words like sane and bonkers as you did in that comment. It just isn't nice in RL or written in a forum, so I hope you'll think before you use them next time.

OwlCapone Sat 24-May-14 15:09:35

hmm

OwlCapone Sat 24-May-14 15:10:21

The world's gone mad.

owlbegoing Sat 24-May-14 15:11:05

Were you stood by the side?
Maybe she thought that she had kicked the side instead, to give her the benefit of the doubt.

OwlCapone Sat 24-May-14 15:14:44

biscuiteer what should I have used instead then? Please do enlighten me.
Sane means rational and sensible.
Bonkers means crazy. Ie ridiculous and stupid.

Both perfectly reasonable.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 15:16:25

no we were standing in the middle of the pool. Its a pool all one level so no deep end or shallow end.

basgetti Sat 24-May-14 15:18:29

Of course she should have apologised for kicking you. I cannot believe the lengths some posters go to just to argue the toss with an OP.

MrsWinnibago Sat 24-May-14 15:18:40

Yanbu this is why I completely avoid swimming pools. If it's not arsey "Swimmers" it's "Fun" dads who think it's ok to splash massively in their quest to be the best parent.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 15:21:10

Biscuiteer. Owlcapone is just someone who enjoys being confrontational and offensive. Dont take it personally or pay it any attention.

I'm most certainly not.

Any reasonable person holding a child in a public pool, without lanes, and facing away from a strong swimmer who kicks out forcefully into a childs chest (disabled or otherwise) probably accidentally, and who then proceeds to carry on swimming without apology, would be upset and hurt by this persons actions.

Lottiedoubtie Sat 24-May-14 15:21:44

Not if 'I say so' it's you whose story doesn't make any practical sense.

And I stand by my comment, that of course if she kicked you she should have apologised.

But she didn't, which is unfortunate. You are making somewhat of a mountain out of a molehill. I'm assuming your DC is ok? Didnt require hospitalisation?

OwlCapone Sat 24-May-14 15:22:57

Biscuiteer. Owlcapone is just someone who enjoys being confrontational and offensive. Dont take it personally or pay it any attention.

Grow up.

plecofjustice Sat 24-May-14 15:23:35

It is your responsibility to assess the situation before your child enters the water. You need to be aware of other water users at all times, to ensure your own safety. You were clearly not doing this, neither was the other swimmer. You were both at fault, you possibly more than her as you have a supervisory responsibility to another person, who you placed in a dangerous situation. What might have happened if the other swimmer had got tangled in your child's buoyancy equipment and had pulled him away from you or pulled him under?

OwlCapone Sat 24-May-14 15:28:37

Exactly what have I said that is confrontational and offensive anyway?

OwlCapone Sat 24-May-14 15:30:14

Any reasonable person holding a child in a public pool, without lanes, and facing away from a strong swimmer who kicks out forcefully into a childs chest (disabled or otherwise) probably accidentally, and who then proceeds to carry on swimming without apology, would be upset and hurt by this persons actions.

Any reasonable person would be upset and hurt, yes. They would not, however, be furious and wanting to "rip her fucking head off."

MaxsMummy2012 Sat 24-May-14 15:30:20

Sneeze I'm on your side, a public pool is for everyone but that doesn't mean she has more right to the pool than you just because she is swimming up and down! she would have known if she had made contact with a person and therefore should have apologised - it 's called manners. She should, as would most polite swimmers, go around people who are 'in her way'. And if she really wants to swim up and down without being impeded then she should look at the pool timetable and go at a time when lane swimming is available. And I actually think the 'disabled child' part is relevant because your concentration would be on supporting this child and reassuring them that they are safe and it wouldn't be as easy to move this child quickly out of the way even if you had seen that woman. So all in all I definitely don't think you were BU and in fact I think you were pretty restrained because I would have told her off (just like I did with the stupid arse who kicked my baby bump at 9 months pregnant and didn't apologise!) thanks

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 15:32:11

So I was responsible before entering the water in ensuring suitable buoyancy aids were worn.

I was facing away from a strong swimmer who was aware of us and who must have been aware we couldnt see her as i was looking in the opposite direction.

Its a public pool with no lanes for swimming and there were several other people and swimmers around I managed to avoid.

I was placing a child in danger by taking him into the local pool?

And the responsibility is on me to have eyes in the back of my head? hmm Not quite understanding that argument either.

Also cant ever remember any incident where a swimmer has got entangled in a rubber ring, arm bands or a puddle jumper.

basgetti Sat 24-May-14 15:33:03

Any reasonable person would be upset and hurt, yes. They would not, however, be furious and wanting to "rip her fucking head off."

The OP has already said she often feels invisible. Maybe this was just the straw that broke the camel's back and she needed a rant.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 15:38:04

Thank you Maxsmummy and basgetti. Yes I did just want to rant and be understood. At the time I said nothing, and even if I had said something it would have been polite and just to make her aware of her actions.

I am too polite which I am more angry about than this womans behaviour. It was rude, thoughtless and arrogent, but I was too much of a wimp to point this out to her. I wont next time though
smile thanks

JonesRipley Sat 24-May-14 15:38:35

some of the responses on here are perverse in the extreme.

We teach 3 year olds to apologise for unintentional acts that cause someone to be hurt. Shouldn't expect that from a grown woman though, who if she showed thought could have avoided kicking a child.

Let's blame the blame the pool management though eh?

JonesRipley Sat 24-May-14 15:40:06

OPs ranting does not harm to anyone.

plecofjustice Sat 24-May-14 15:42:47

I was placing a child in danger by taking him into the local pool?

Yes, you were. A swimming pool is a dangerous environment by definition - it contains a substance which, if immersed in it, will kill a person.

We mitigate the risks through the provision of lifeguards, buoyancy aids, etc, but ultimately, if you are going to take a child into a pool, you are responsible for their safety, and that means being situationally aware at all times. Yes, you do need eyes in the back of your head, everyone who takes responsibility for another pool user does.

Treat this as a reminder of the importance of awareness in swimming pools and be glad that inattention didn't cause any injury. Many parents and carers don't get to say that

JonesRipley Sat 24-May-14 15:43:17

God Lord. I've heard it all grin

ProudAS Sat 24-May-14 15:44:03

I don't think I "own" the pool where I swim but I do think it reasonable for recreational swimmers to give way to those of us doing lengths (the pool doesn't have separate areas but is much wider at one end than the other so a fairly narrow area for lengths and plenty of room in the wide bit for recreation).

Kicking people in the pool is easily done by accident and maybe the woman couldnt see without her glasses.

JonesRipley Sat 24-May-14 15:45:03

Proud

Are you aware when you have kicked someone?

JonesRipley Sat 24-May-14 15:45:24

And if you are, do you apologise?

SconeRhymesWithGone Sat 24-May-14 15:45:45

I am curious to know what her "middle age" has to do with it?

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 15:46:18

I only ranted on here because I dont rant in RL. grin

I would have been quite happy for a simple 'sorry' but just to carry on swimming and then turning and swimming back past me as if I and DGS didnt exist was what infuriated me.

JonesRipley Sat 24-May-14 15:46:47

Possibly middle-aged women are deemed to have intelligence and manners?

Maybe not

JonesRipley Sat 24-May-14 15:49:47

Sneeze

It would have infuriated me too. Rudeness does. There may have been statistically very unlikely reasons why she didn't see you, stop, avoid you, apologise, but here in Opposites World, it's all your fault.

ProudAS Sat 24-May-14 15:49:53

Yes Jones - If I know then I do apologise but seems a bit odd asking me whether I know. If I didn't realise I'd kicked someone how would I know that I hadn't realised????

bruffin Sat 24-May-14 15:50:25

Not sure how you can apologize when you are head down swimming . Accidental kicks happen fairly regularly even in my lessons. I have never seen anyone stop to apologize because ors not practical and others have the common sense to realise it wasnt on purpose.

JonesRipley Sat 24-May-14 15:51:30

Proud

OK, you think it's likely you'd be swimming behind someone, hit them hard enough to push them backwards and not notice?

Or that you'd be swimming behind someone and not take steps to avoid them?

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 15:52:18

Middle aged has nothing to do with anything. It was a description, as was 'woman' and 'swimmer'. She was wearing a one piece. confused It doesnt matter how the 'swimmer' is described, she was rude and arrogent.

Proud. Its already been established that not wearing glasses is not the equivalent of 'blind as a bat'. I used to not wear glasses in the pools and could at least distinguish people from thin air. I was quite happy to give way and did several times yesterday, but she came up behind me. I cant give way to someone I cant see.

JonesRipley Sat 24-May-14 15:53:03

bruffin

Stop swimming?

I am starting to remember why I don't like swimming pools either. Do you apologise if you accidentally step on someone's toe or bash into someone?

If you say No I won't believe you.

brt100 Sat 24-May-14 15:53:12

If she was swimming lengths you shouldn't get in her way, not that getting in her way deserves a kick.

PrimalLass Sat 24-May-14 15:54:37

I think there may be a few selfish entitled lane swimmers on this thread.

JonesRipley Sat 24-May-14 15:54:49

^ I meant if you knock into someone out of the pool.

Joggers say sorry if they accidentally run into you, is swimming different?

Are you all Olympians?

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 15:54:59

aibu Is most definitely Opposites World.

Or more precisely, say something infinitely reasonable and be torn limb from limb world!

JonesRipley Sat 24-May-14 15:56:09

sneeze

Hmm

Maybe it's something about swimming that we Don't Quite Get.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 15:58:24

Sadly I think there are quite a few selfish entitled lane swimmers on this thread!

I think one of them was most definitely in the pool with me yesterday grin

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 16:00:07

Jonesy. Thats for sure. grin

OwlCapone Sat 24-May-14 16:00:57

Joggers say sorry if they accidentally run into you, is swimming different?

Well, when swimming your head is underwater for most of the time so I guess it's a little different. I wouldn't know though, I can barely swim a single length

OwlCapone Sat 24-May-14 16:02:21

Or more precisely, say something infinitely reasonable and be torn limb from limb world!

Certainly looks like it from where I'm sitting so I guess it goes both ways.

sarinka Sat 24-May-14 16:03:26

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JonesRipley Sat 24-May-14 16:05:17

Owl

I can't swim very well. I think I can lift my lead out of the water though and it sounds like this woman was a better swimmer than you or I.

JonesRipley Sat 24-May-14 16:05:32

sarinka

Really?

How odd

PrimalLass Sat 24-May-14 16:06:05

brt100 Sat 24-May-14 15:53:12
If she was swimming lengths you shouldn't get in her way, not that getting in her way deserves a kick.

But neither should people think they can do what they like when circumstances aren't right. It sounds like this was a small pool, not set up for lane swimming, during a general use session. Sometimes people just have to accept that it isn't the right time to be powering up and down expecting everyone to get out of the way. Neither should anyone be doing it if they can't see, because that's just stupid and dangerous.

QuintessentiallyQS Sat 24-May-14 16:07:03

She must have been doing the backwards breast stroke. I hear reverse swimming is gaining in popularity.

Caterina99 Sat 24-May-14 16:07:55

I'm a swimmer. And yes I've accidentally kicked people and been kicked. Kicking another swimmer in a busy pool happens, and most people don't stop and apologize because it's just one of those things and everyone accepts it.

However I'm talking about other lane swimmers, kicking a stationary non lane swimmer is different and the woman should have stopped and apologized in my opinion.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 16:09:39

Sarinka. Hes my grandson, and I have a day off today to eat, read and watch TV and play on the computer sort out my internet banking!

I always take care at the pool, I only ask that other swimmers show equal consideration.

I rarely take offence because the majority of people I meet are kind, decent and responsible. I dont and never will regard someone who takes no care around children, in this category.

Funnily enough, I though a website for and about children would be understanding of this concept, but obviously not in a few cases.

ProudAS Sat 24-May-14 16:22:00

Jones - I see no reason why that would happen but how would I know if something I was unaware of had happened? Of course I make an effort to avoid people in my path but it can be easier said than done if they move suddenly.

Squeeze - I do wear glasses and can distinguish a person from a patch of water without them but seeing where underwater limbs are is different - it may be the same for someone with 20 20 vision but I wouldn't know.

Will you stop villifying me please. I've got autism and my inability to use neurotypical reasoning does not make me bad. I assume that's what the problem is anyway - where did I say that I would behave like this woman the OP mentioned or have you just come to that conclusion through judging my posts by neurotypical standards?

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 16:23:09

quint. I was holding DGS facing towards the pool side where DD had DGS2. This strong powerful swimmer came up behind me heading towards DD at the pool side.

She hasnt invented a new swimming stroke, despite being very skilful and having an excellent well practiced breast stroke.

All good reasons for having the ability to avoid a stationary woman holding a child who could not see her.

JonesRipley Sat 24-May-14 16:24:13

Proud

You make a good point. I guess what I am questioning is the likelihood of this woman not realising she'd hit someone

OwlCapone Sat 24-May-14 16:26:32

I can't swim very well. I think I can lift my lead out of the water though

Yes, but the better swimmer you are, the longer your head is in the water. It only comes up to take a breath and then it's back down. As a jogger (I'm not one of those either!), you just shout a cheery "sorry!" without having to slow down or do anything. I apologise if I or my dog get into the way of a jogger though. A mutual apology for being in each other's way.

ProudAS Sat 24-May-14 16:27:47

OK so it's not very likely but it's not impossible. She may have a had a problem with her nerves for example.

Softlysoftlycatchymonkey Sat 24-May-14 16:29:04

I've skimmed as I'm fucking furious!

I teach swimming and we have the fucking same in our pool when I'm doing 1-2-1 SN. I yanked one back by the foot once - an elderly 'gent' - he should have known better. horrible bastard

They do not own the pool.

Go and complain to the manager/swimming co-ordinator and ask them to be present the next time you go and get them to watch and get them to deal with it.

X

JonesRipley Sat 24-May-14 16:29:59

Owl

Ok. So you'd say sorry if the jogger trod on your dog and didn't say sorry?

This is getting silly by the way

JonesRipley Sat 24-May-14 16:31:06

^^ i meant all of it, not just you

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 16:31:14

proud. Im sure no one is criticising you. This woman was not swimming underwater and she was perfectly well aware of us and the fact she had kicked us. We were not moving, we were stationary and clear for anyone to see. No one minds the odd accidental kick in a swimming pool, Ive had loads and not minded.

This was a forceful thrusting kick from a breast stroke into a 5 year olds chest. She was aware of it but just chose to ignore it. I am sure you would not do such a thing as would the vast majority of swimmers.

Thats why Ive posted this, it was such an out of the norm occurrence and someone behaving like this really shocked me.

ManWithNoName Sat 24-May-14 16:31:32

YANBU - an older middle aged woman doing laps decided to pull my son age 6 under the water as she swam past. He is a very strong swimmer so he was fine but I thought she had done it on her previous lap so I ducked under the water the next time she came past and I watched her grab him and pull him under again. She just wanted to make him frightened so he would get out of her way.

I had a right go at her and she stopped swimming and got out of the pool. Some people really are nasty.

JonesRipley Sat 24-May-14 16:32:29

CAN WE STOP NOW? PLEASE?

I have weighty matters to attend to

basgetti Sat 24-May-14 16:33:46

OP you are seriously not being unreasonable. If the woman had posted on here that she kicked a child and didn't apologise, the same posters criticising you would be having a go at her too. Some people just enjoy being argumentative and contrary on AIBU, but when it gets to situations like this where it is defending the indefensible it is just ridiculous to read.

JonesRipley Sat 24-May-14 16:34:20

I am just remembering the last time I went Lane swimming.

Chaos.

Woman doing weird all-over-the-place butterfly kicking up a tidal wave, people doing all the wrong speeds in all the wrong lanes.

Some people determined to overtake when I was in the correct lane for my speed

WorraLiberty Sat 24-May-14 16:34:31

Christ, she accidentally kicked your child

It happens in busy pools, it doesn't mean she thinks she owns it.

Also, maybe she didn't apologise because she wasn't entirely sure who she kicked while concentrating on swimming.

Or maybe she's just rude?

Either way, I think you anger is extremely disproportionate.

windchime Sat 24-May-14 16:35:20

Perhaps the swimmer was also disabled?

JonesRipley Sat 24-May-14 16:35:24

Worra

She covered that.

She's ranting

JonesRipley Sat 24-May-14 16:35:44

Actually, she'd not ranting anymore

EduCated Sat 24-May-14 16:36:17

I accidentally kicked another swimmer last time I went, just misjudged the distance between us. I immediately stopped to apologise and check I hadn't hurt them. Surely that is the only reasonable response to that situation, even when it's a complete accident?

If I see people in the way without my glasses on I slow down til they've passed, or swim around them. Yes it can be annoying, but if people are being deliberately obstructive you speak to the lifeguard.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 16:36:49

So if you trod on someones foot you would not be aware of it? And kicking underwater is different somehow? Do the nerve endings in the foot degenerate immediately someone steps into a chlorine pool? Unknown effects of chlorine maybe?

Next time softly I will confront them head on and point out they should act with more care. Actually I may report it to the pool attendant, it makes more sense that they are aware and have a word with the person involved. May make them think twice next time.

OwlCapone Sat 24-May-14 16:37:46

Ok. So you'd say sorry if the jogger trod on your dog and didn't say sorry?

If my dog had got in his way, yes. It would have been my fault for not controlling him given he is always on a lead. Does one person having bad manners excuse them in yourself? I don't think so.

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure what your point is. I was simply saying that it's easier for a jogger to apologise without any problem than it is for a swimmer, whose head may well be underwater for 90% of the time. As a side point, I said I would apologise for getting in the way.

JonesRipley Sat 24-May-14 16:41:40

I'm off now.

OwlCapone Sat 24-May-14 16:43:22

I'm off to throw my dog under the feet of joggers to see if they apologise.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 16:45:02

Man! omg. Someone did that to a child shock that is dreadful, someone can die (dry drowning) with vasal vagal inhibition in those circumstances. Its terribly dangerous. I would have reported that certainly.

This lady swimmer was definitely not disabled. She was a very strong capable swimmer envy All the more reason to avoid us.

And to be clear the pool only had about 20 people in it so there was plenty of room for her to swim lengths. She chose to swim down the centre left in straight lines where I and other parents/children were. She could have swum along the edge of the pool.

Softlysoftlycatchymonkey Sat 24-May-14 16:47:02

sneeze the only reason I wouldn't confront the arseholes in my pool is because some of them are incredibly rude.

The amount of arguments I've had in the water is unreal. The thing is they feel this is their space so get the fuck out of it so will most certainly argue back! I'm quiet fiery when it come to my kids so punching an OAP in the face is probably not on grin

When you go back, if that person is there - pre warn the pool attendant. If it happens again call for the duty manager straight away.

Don't even engage with the twats.

Softlysoftlycatchymonkey Sat 24-May-14 16:50:01

Woman doing weird all-over-the-place butterfly kicking up a tidal wave, people doing all the wrong speeds in all the wrong lanes

We have Mr Splashy - sort of dying donkey with a dislocated shoulder over water arm swing. How the hell he travels I don't know??

ManWithNoName Sat 24-May-14 16:51:01

Sneeze - like you I doubted that it had really happened when she passed by the first time. I was absolutely gobsmacked when I saw her reach out and grab his arm and pull him under at the second pass.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 16:51:50

Many thanks for the input. I will speak directly to the attendant next time smile

bruffin Sat 24-May-14 16:53:26

Op leave it

Have you heard of recall bias
In your mind the woman will have got fitter and stronger and more aware. The kick would have got harder and more deliberate.
You dont know how aware she was of you or the kick and all that is happening is you are getting more upset

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 16:55:21

Man. Maybe its the women who are worse? That is shocking to pull a child under the water.

There are some nasty people out there who seem to see children as nothing more than noisy, inconvenient nuisances, instead of the innocent, joyful (most of the time) people they are, just having fun. sad

Softlysoftlycatchymonkey Sat 24-May-14 16:57:42

sneezes it's not just the girl folk ! Our man culprit is a 60+ fella in speedos

Rants like an outraged imp on pool side, jabbing and pointing !

petalunicorn Sat 24-May-14 17:00:34

Y so NBU. Any reasonable person would stop and apologise. The fact she didn't implies she did it on purpose or at least didn't care she did it.

I suspect she regularly swims at that session and there normally aren't any children in there, as it was an inset day she got the arse at her 'lane swimming' being interrupted. Well, that's life. If she was that bothered she should go to a formal lanes session.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 17:01:26

bruffin. I am not upset any longer. I now realise there was a real course of action I could have taken (it was the helplessness I felt at the time that was awful) and that this womans behaviour was not that unusual (sadly).

There is no recall bias I assure you. She was extremely fit and strong and the kick was very forceful. A poster earlier said breast stroke is a forceful stroke, and this was the case. It rocked both of us back, DGS taking the brunt on his chest. Short of peripheral neuropathy she couldnt not have been aware of the contact. I am pretty sure the kick was not deliberate, but was just done with an 'I dont care if you get kicked, you shouldnt be in my way' attitude.

It was only yesterday and is still clear. smile

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 17:03:34

Softly....please dont send him to our pool grin

bruffin Sat 24-May-14 17:09:13

Of course there is recall bias
The fish gets bigger with every telling.
She has probably gone home completely unaware that ahe even touched you.

Softlysoftlycatchymonkey Sat 24-May-14 17:18:22

Was it you bruffin. <<< eyes bruffin suspiciously >>

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 17:31:13

I was going to leave the thread but Ive just spoken to DD on the phone and apparently this woman also kicked DD when she got to the pool side and turned around to go back. Not hard but enough to be felt. DD had 14 month old DGS in her arms. Again no acknowlegement although she did look at DD and gave her a nasty look (presumably another 'get out of my way' attitude)

DD independently confirmed she was a 'big' woman. So no recall bias there as she had not though of it until I mentioned it. She was annoyed at the time, but like me didnt want to made a fuss.

I had not even discussed this with DD until just now, but it confirms my opinion this was a nasty, entitled, selfish woman.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 17:32:10

I never said there was no such thing as recall bias bruffin. just that its not the case here.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 17:33:55

And I am sure if DGSs daddy had been holding him she wouldnt have done it. She was just a bully.

fatlazymummy Sat 24-May-14 17:34:08

I can see both sides here.
I am a lane swimmer, and I think the woman should have apologised.
I also take my (learning ) disabled daughter swimming during the school holidays, and I am always very careful to ensure that she doesn't get in the way of other swimmers. It's a 2 way thing really.

Retropear Sat 24-May-14 17:40:45

What is the point of this thread?

bruffin Sat 24-May-14 17:41:41

No Thankfully nowhere near swimming pool today,i only go on wednesdays , which is usually very uneventful.
I just think there are always two sides to every story and it would be interesting to hear the other womans tale .

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 17:48:29

fatlaz. There were no lanes. no lane markings of any kind, this was the smaller ancillery pool. I am also careful to keep out of other peoples way, but when I am facing the opposite direction with an awkward child in my arms, I cant move fast enough to get out of anyones way.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 17:50:50

Judging by what DD has just said. The other womans side of the story would be, I was swimming as I usually do and these ridiculous people with babies/children in their arms were IN MY WAY! So I just carried on and if they got kicked tough!

natual Sat 24-May-14 17:52:46

OP
when you do something accidentally you would stop immediately and apologize straight away but it is maybe just me

shockinglybadteacher Sat 24-May-14 18:05:31

Sneezecakesmum, I understand that it seemed a bit aggressive but I reckon it wasn't meant that way.

People who are doing full-on swimming are really focused. They just sort of power ahead without a care in the world as they are in "zone". Even when they get out they are a bit like that. As you wouldn't jump in front of someone running laps, getting in the way of someone swimming laps causes accidents. It doesn't sound like your pool handles this well. They should rope off a part where you and child and other folk can swim in peace.

There's a secondary consideration, and I hate to plead special needs, but. I sustained damage to one of my feet. I will need multiple operations and have had a few already, but although I can walk better, the nerve function will never come back completely. I could hit someone with that foot while never knowing I had done it while swimming, because my leg is there but my foot is sort of not completely there. I have been in trouble before for treading on someone's foot not knowing I had done it! This could have been the case with her, and then she could have felt guilty and handled it badly.

All in all a horrible experience but one the pool needs to sort, not the woman. I hope he is feeling better now.

MrsWolowitz Sat 24-May-14 18:13:30

Op of course YANBU to be annoyed.

Even if she didn't see you/she was focused on swimming/you were in the way she kicked someone (a child at that).

Of course not apologising what absurdly rude.

Don't give her headspace though. It's done and dusted.

Things like this are why I don't swim any more. I have very, very poor sight and wouldn't be able to see you if you were in my way. The worry about knocking in to someone or slipping over because I can't see where I'm going is what stops me from swimming. I would have apologised though.

Sneezecakesmum Sat 24-May-14 19:23:10

It's done and dusted and I am not bothered by it any more but we do intend to go to that pool with baby DGS2 when DGS1 is in school and if she is there again and any repeat, it won't be tolerated.

Especially as DD has just informed me it's a learner pool! The big one was closed as school kids were there for lessons and games. Maybe this woman was annoyed they had been turfed out of the big laned pool.

Rude nasty people are not worth it but they are also not going to be allowed to bully me or my family again.

FrancesNiadova Sat 24-May-14 20:38:25

I'm so angry for you sneeze. After I originally broke my ankle I used to go to the pool & regularly got kicked out of the way by 1 particular entitled swimmer. I'm an adult, so I reluctantly put up with it, but to do it to a disabled child in floats, wtf angry angry.

I would put a letter in to the leisure centre manager, to alert their attention to what went on & ask him/her to instruct the pool attendants to be on the lookout for similar dangerous swimming.

cake for your little one.

Lepaskilf Sat 24-May-14 21:03:15

Grr, I'd have wanted to grab her ankles and pull her to the bottom of the pool!

Claybury Sat 24-May-14 21:17:47

I'm a serious swimmer and I have to say a normal breast stroke kick is actually pretty hard when it hits you. For this reason in open water races breast strokers really annoy me ! Front crawl is recommended for this reason.
The woman surely didn't mean it , she should have apologised however.

maddening Sat 24-May-14 21:35:02

Front crawl or back stroke or butterfly you may not see someone but very doubtful in breast stroke IMO

sunshinecity17 Sat 24-May-14 21:44:15

Meh.Getting jostled, kicked etc is par for the course in a swimming pool and the kicker is usually half wqy up the pool by the time it hasd registered.Your child didn't do anymore than 'look shocked' so can't been that bothered.

FastWindow Sat 24-May-14 22:01:52

What the doubters here seem to have missed is that it was the second time the woman made contact?

deakymom Sat 24-May-14 22:19:45

fast window i was just about to point that out she didn't accidentally kick once she kicked twice and did not apologise for it she was rude rude rude why cant people see that? the pool is not there for "experienced swimmers only" its there for whoever pays the money if you want to lane swim with no disruptions go on a day with restrictions otherwise be aware other people enjoying the pool!

and the fact he is disabled is relevant i bet he has more floats than a sports shop on him and would be very visible

Sneezecakesmum Sun 25-May-14 09:17:34

Frances.... Perfect, I am going to write to the pool manager having spoken to DD who was also kicked by this woman.

Points to make.

We were in the small learner pool with no lanes marked. It was not crowded (around 20 people) so no excuse for kicking anyone.

She was swimming across the centre of the pool with no regard to other users.

I had a disabled 5 year old DGS in my arms full of floatation aids and was facing away from her so had no way to avoid her.

She was doing a powerful breast stroke so could easily see us. She came up behind me.

She hit me lightly with her arm and with her next kick kicked DGS in the chest so hard we were rocked back. DGS looked shocked. I could feel the kick and had to fight to keep balance in the water.

She continued to swim to the pool edge where DD had DGS2 (14 months) in her arms and on turning kicked her too. Hard enough to feel but a normal swimming pool kick.

She did not stop so we got out of her way. She did not apologise but continued in this way despite a few small children in the pool.

It was not crowded so she had plenty of room to swim near the edge.

I realise I should have spoken out at the time but was unaware DD had also been hit and was also feeling vulnerable because I was holding a child in my arms.

If similar happens again I will speak to the pool attendant, but I would request that the attendants monitor strong lane swimmers behaving as though they owned the pool and causing distress to other pool users.

Kind regards....etc

bruffin Sun 25-May-14 09:24:29

You need to get a life

bruffin Sun 25-May-14 09:37:19

You cannot kick someone on purpose with breaststroke and carry on swimming

To be kicked by breaststroke you must have been behind her or to the side so she could not have swam at you on purpose.

Your gc was not upset about it, these posts sre all about you and how it affected you not your gc which says a lot.

Nottalotta Sun 25-May-14 09:41:55

I used to swim regularly at lunchtimes, but am by no means a proper swimmer i do old lady head in the air swimming

But I did go to swim up and down for half an hour. Its a frequent occurance to kick/be kicked unfortunately. People tend not to apologise - I started out apologising but it soon became apparent that it was pretty much accepted that accidental kicking occurred.

I would certainly have apologised if i kicked a small child though.

That said, its infuriating to not be able to swim up and down the same 'lane' without people constantly drifting into your path.

At our local pool we have set times for lanes swimmers. And even then, if you accidentally catch someone you apologise, I see it all the time. The swimmers are certainly able to see other people, even those with their heads down, because they swim around slower people all the time. I did my 50 lengths this morning and certainly saw polite behaviour.

Outside of those times, lane swimmer are actually reminded that the pool is available for recreational use, and thus may not be able to swim in lengths.

This woman kicked the child hard enough to move him and OP, she could not have been unaware of that and should have apologised, if not straight away, certainly on her way back along the pool.

And I have a high prescription and certainly can see other people in the pool (although I do swim wearing an old pair of glasses).

MrsMaturin Sun 25-May-14 09:46:57

Please don't send that letter. It makes you look very silly. The pool management are not responsible for one person's rudeness and tbh getting kicked IS part of communal swimming sessions. like getting splashed is. It's not pleasant and I would have expected some acknowledgement but it's done now. You didn't react at the time so you need to let it go now.

If she was coming up directly behind you, it sounds as if she did take evasive action by swimming to the side of you - otherwise she would have hit you head on, as opposed to only her foot catching your son.

Obviously she misjudged the distance a bit but that happens. Occupational hazard of public swimming. She should have apologised.

However, if you didn't hear the woman approaching you from behind (ie, splashing, kicking) isn't it just possible she did apologise and you simply didn't hear above the background noise in the pool?

OwlCapone Sun 25-May-14 09:49:44

It was not crowded so she had plenty of room to swim near the edge.

I think it's sensible to leave the edges for less competent swimmers and children though. Certainly in a normal pool.

Be careful, Bruffin, you'll be accused of enjoying being deliberately confrontational and offensive soon.

Picturesinthefirelight Sun 25-May-14 09:57:04

Am I reading this correctly. You were in the shallow what we call the baby pool at our local baths?

Those pools are not meant for serious swimming? They are for water confidence building/very young children's/beginners lessons. People specifically take children in there to play/stay away from stringer & more confident swimmers.

Saying that I wonder if the woman was warned. At our pool we are told on paying our admission which pools are open

All the pools I have ever been to have a timetable with set times for lane swimming/ family swimming. If you go during the latter time you should expect not to be able to swim seriously, the pool will be full of people just bobbing about.

OP - YANBU.

sunshinecity17 Sun 25-May-14 09:58:42

so if you had your back to her, how do you know that you and your kid, inadvertently moved into her path, in which case you should be apologising to her?

MrsMaturin Sun 25-May-14 10:00:10

I think its quite clear it was an accident not a deliberate assault. She should still have apologised. Or at least I would have. No good expecting her to swim round the edge though. For length swimming the middle of the pool is preferred. Waves hitting the side slap back at you the nearer the edge you are.

Picturesinthefirelight Sun 25-May-14 10:04:38

Anyone trying to swim lengths in the learner poolside our local pool would be asked to leave.

PrincessBabyCat Sun 25-May-14 10:11:44

You cannot kick someone on purpose with breaststroke and carry on swimming

You can if you're doing it wrong. She was obviously doing the stroke wrong if she was flailing her limbs out. You should be able to fit two people doing the breast stroke in the same lane going back and forth with no problem.

But more to the point, it sounds like she used her foot to push than to kick. She was probably being lazy and used your child's body to propel off of thinking it was yours. It's not like it was a karate kick where it had momentum to make contact for maximum damage.

You got knocked back a few inches. Big deal. If I accidentally pushed a bit with my legs while swimming I really wouldn't think too much of it.

She should have waited until the big pool opened up if she really required an entire lane's worth of room to swim in though.

But really, you're over reacting. A little push isn't worth the frustration anymore than accidentally getting bumped into on the sidewalk.

Sneezecakesmum Sun 25-May-14 10:45:50

It wasn't a little push. It was a forceful kick. I was actually there. She made contact 3 times because she was entitled.

Should we all just accept that bullying people can get away with it? Just let them carry on and maybe kick a baby in the head?

The pool was 1.1 metre deep through the whole pool. It's a pool where the floor goes up and down! V high tech!

It was a designated learner pool. In those circumstances regular strong swimmers should take more care of learners!

I will write the letter because she made contact (one very hard) three times and yet carried on. It's not the apology even it's the fact that she felt she could bully her way through the pool hurting small children in the process.

It's when people like me and DD accept they can be treated like this that allows bullies to get away with it.

If a park runner had elbowed your child in the chest or face and continued without acknowledgement or apology because they owned the park, any normal person would let that go unchallenged.

Sometime you have to make a stand, especially as we intend to go swimming in the same pool.

The attendants can then monitor a persons swimming in the learner pool and ask for more consideration. A letter may prompt them to do that.

Sneezecakesmum Sun 25-May-14 10:49:29

To the best of my knowledge I have not written she did it deliberately princess. Just showed complete lack of care for other pool users.

Summerbreezing Sun 25-May-14 10:54:46

That happens in swimming pools all the time, particularly if they're very crowded. It is annoying, but in this case the fault lies with the pool managers I think. Normally there are lanes for strong swimmers and a section for people who want to swim slowly or do exercises.
Also, didn't read all 9 pages of the thread but were you standing in the middle of the pool while people were swimming up and down, as opposed to at the edge?

bruffin Sun 25-May-14 11:02:31

The fish is getting bigger
Started of one touch that didnt hurt child , now 3 very forceful kicks hmm

Sneezecakesmum Sun 25-May-14 11:12:23

Summer it wasn't crowded. Around 20 adults and children. Plenty of room to avoid a child. I was in the middle of the pool as were other parents and children.

Surely the onus is on the person who can see the obstruction rather than someone with their back to you? confused

We were in the learner pool as the big one with lanes had a school gala in. So we were in the right area and I think she may have been miffed that she couldn't swim in the big pool because it was full of annoying schoolchildren!

I think you are suffering from recall bias brufen. I hope you've heard of that expression? I said two minor contacts and one forceful kick to a child chest with a leg/foot. I've said that throughout. You need to learn competent reading too.

I am writing to the management precisely because children in the learner pool should take priority and the pool attendants should be aware of this.

Sneezecakesmum Sun 25-May-14 11:18:17

I've looked up the address to write to and the pool description describes it as such:

These facilities are for people with profound and multiple learning disabilities, as well as other serious impairments including spinal injuries or acquired brain injury

Obviously for other users too but with superb facilities for the above and therefore they need to be made aware of the selfish actions of some of the pool users and it's impact on disabled and able bodied children and adults.

kali110 Sun 25-May-14 11:33:09

Why did you put this in aibu if you dont think you are?
All this sounds like it was an accident not deliberate, which from your title makes it sounds like it was done on purpose.
Things like this happen in pools.they're also very noisy so there is a chance she apologised and you never even heard it.

QuintessentiallyQS Sun 25-May-14 11:33:35

You are right to complain in that lane swimmers should not be able to swim lanes in the learner pool if the main pool was closed, they should be told "I am sorry but the pool is closed for lane swimming, due to a swimming gala only the learner pool is open, and it is not suitable for lane swimming".

Sneezecakesmum Sun 25-May-14 11:33:53

Owlcapone? Bruffin? Any further insights?

Picturesinthefirelight Sun 25-May-14 11:37:06

Agree with Quintessentially

Summerbreezing Sun 25-May-14 11:37:47

I agree with Quint If the main pool was closed for a gala they should not have let people who wanted to swim lengths simply transfer to the learner pool. The fault was definitely with Management - but the woman herself should also have exercised a bit of cop on and just missed her swim that day.

Sneezecakesmum Sun 25-May-14 11:39:52

Kali. When someone apologises they are not swimming away from you. Makes an apology pointless in the extreme if it can't be heard. She didn't apologise to me or to DD.

If a pool is designated a learner pool and there is an emphasis on disabled children and adults (DGS having an acquired brain injury) surely a reasonable person would use care. Obviously not judging by some of the responses here. Luckily some good advice (letter to management) and reasonable and supportive people.

I've also checked the pool opening times and pool schedule. It says clearly when the laned pool is open for swimmers. She obviously didn't bother or arrived as it was closing and diverting to the learner pool, which was when we arrived.

SpecialAgentFreyPie Sun 25-May-14 11:42:20

Agree with Quint -If you're going to complain, complain about the poor management, not the lady which will make you sound ridiculous-

QuintessentiallyQS Sun 25-May-14 11:42:29

Management, or the lifeguards should have been able to ask her to leave the learner pool if she was using it for lane swimming.

kali110 Sun 25-May-14 11:42:37

You dont know she didnt apologise though. Whilst i would have stopped if i wasnt in the deep end and apologised, some will just shout out sorry. My point is you may not have heard and that this was a complete accident.

Hulababy Sun 25-May-14 11:45:51

ProudAS Sat 24-May-14 15:44:03
I don't think I "own" the pool where I swim but I do think it reasonable for recreational swimmers to give way to those of us doing lengths

I'm curious? Why should people give way to you?
I assume you have paid the same to go in the pool, just like everyone else?
So why should you get preferential treatment from the other paying people?

It makes no difference to what you are doing in the pool. Everyone has paid for entry, so everyone has as much right to use the pool in the way they feel fit - so long as it isn't breaking the pool's rules.

As for the kicking incident. Even if it was an accident, of course the woman should have apologised. Most decent people would be horrified at kicking a young child - and yes, especially a disabled child I would have thought - even if not intended.

Hulababy Sun 25-May-14 11:48:09

I am stunned at how many people seem to think that the woman was in the right shock

Picturesinthefirelight Sun 25-May-14 11:49:55

Me too Hula

Sneezecakesmum Sun 25-May-14 11:53:53

Kali. She didn't apologise to me or DD. She didn't stop. She didn't acknowledge us. She didn't shout, it wasn't that noise. You can't shout when you are continue to breast stroke. I was there I am certain of this. There was no deep end. It is 1.1 metre through the whole pool. I've never said it was deliberate, just arrogantly dismissive of us and our safety. A small child would have been knocked over and under the water. But that's ok apparently.

I never said people should give way to me? I would have got out of the way (I did for others) but I haven't got eyes in the back of my head! She could see me, I couldn't see her.

Surely the fact that it's a learner pool should put the onus on swimmers to take care around children and move around them anyway?

Sneezecakesmum Sun 25-May-14 11:55:42

Me too Hula. I am stunned that people think I should have seen someone swimming behind me and dodge out of the way (difficult with an awkward to hold 5 year old) rather than the person swimming in a learner pool.

Completely confused

Sneezecakesmum Sun 25-May-14 11:56:45

I strongly suspect the pools rules would be that lane swimmers in the learner pool should take care around children.

kali110 Sun 25-May-14 11:57:50

I don't think what the woman did was right but that she may have apologised it hard to be heard at the swimming baths! Also that from title it seemed that this woman did on purpose when it was an accident, she may not have even realised she kicked a child, either way she should have apologised.
Op not saying yours was deep, i was saying if it was me i would have stopped and apologised however if it was the deep end i too would have to just shout as id probably end up drowning if id stopped and apologised.

Sneezecakesmum Sun 25-May-14 12:09:00

She didn't do it on purpose, just simply didn't care who she hit as we were in her way. She did not apologise. She actually gave DD a filthy look when she hit her too. DD was expecting any apology as it's the norm but definitely none. Unless she said it underwater which wouldn't count!

The pool is a high tech one with an adjustable floor. The depth was 1.1 metres the whole length. There was a big red neon sign saying it so I was standing when she hit DGS and me.

Why are so many people determined to excuse the inexcusable? confused.

I will write a letter for the benefit of other learner pool users more than for us.

bruffin Sun 25-May-14 12:22:07

The story is growing and growing And making up the pool rules as you go along
The sign is stop people diving in, half the length i swim is that height.
My ds is a lifeguard, if she was being a nuisance i am sure she would have been asked to stop

Sneezecakesmum Sun 25-May-14 12:41:27

In what way growing? The only thing growing is your determination to put words in my mouth and attribute things to me I have not said.

Someone else suggested there were rules around learner pools. I have only said that it is probably the case, but will check when I write to the manager.

Funnily enough, DSIL was a lifeguard in his former fitter days, and said he would not allow one swimmer to behave in an unacceptable way in a learner pool.

Sneezecakesmum Sun 25-May-14 12:42:45

And for someone to be pulled up for being a nuisance then someone like me needs to complain, which we didn't.

Sneezecakesmum Sun 25-May-14 12:45:01

As in

"I strongly suspect the pools rules would be that lane swimmers in the learner pool should take care around children."

SpecialAgentFreyPie Sun 25-May-14 12:56:21

I can't tell if you're dripfeeding or getting hysterical in defending.

(IMHO) You are right BUT also IMHO you would get an eyeroll and a smirk filing a complaint against a woman whose name you don't even know. If however you say the pool claimants neglected your DGS you'll be heard.

Next time complain to a lifeguard.

You're not wrong, but if you expect this woman to be banned you are being unrealistic.

Sneezecakesmum Sun 25-May-14 12:59:32

I don't expect anyone to be banned and I am aware she cannot be identified.

All I want is for the pool attendants to be aware when a strong lane swimmer is powering up and down the learner pool, with children in close proximity they are politely advised to take care.

I don't want other small children kicked. Is that so wrong?

Nottalotta Sun 25-May-14 13:00:55

Your thread title suggests that you think she kicked the child on purpose, because she 'thinks she owns the pool'

It happens all the time, its unfortunate, she should have apoligised. It seems to me that the issue is the fact that she was in the learner pool. Wouldn't have happened at our pool as the learner pool is tiny and about two feet deep!

You did post in AIBU. And going from your title and IP, some people think Yabu.

I don't think yabu to be upset but i do think yabu to make such a big deal over it.

SpecialAgentFreyPie Sun 25-May-14 13:02:27

FYI my opinions are based on the whole thread. If just the OP, I'd agree with you. However I feel this had nothing to do with disability no matter how cross you are. I think this was 100% the lazy pool attendants fault and not swimmer lady.

I have a severely delayed DS1 if it counts?

Sneezecakesmum Sun 25-May-14 13:02:30

I am not drip feeding. I put a lot of detail into the first post. It was only later when discussing it with DD I learned she had been hit too and that it was a learner pool. I had never been there before.

SpecialAgentFreyPie Sun 25-May-14 13:04:36

So your real gripe is service?

Of course YANBU to ask they cater to that demand.

Sneezecakesmum Sun 25-May-14 13:06:18

I was initially very upset over the force of the kick into DGSs chest and my wimping out of confronting her or the pool attendant.

I'm not angry any more for my own part, I handled it badly by not tackling it at the time.

My concern is now for other small children. The disability side was relevant because I could not explain to DGS about it being accidental (I have NEVER said it was deliberate) as he is non verbal and I am not sure what he understands.

Sneezecakesmum Sun 25-May-14 13:09:24

If your DS had been kicked special. Would he have been able to understand it was accidental? All children but especially SN children need to know adults will care for them and not hurt them and if they accidentally hurt them they are sorry.

Perhaps I am asking a but too much?

SpecialAgentFreyPie Sun 25-May-14 13:14:44

Actually DS1 has a severe disability but I still feel the way I do. Realistically, what can you do? You can complain. Which is what I would do.
You have no idea who this woman is. You can't ask for an apology.

Best thing now is to minimise to DGS and make sure he understands kicking is wrong, so he feels safe to swim again.

Short version: Stop being a drama queen. You made this about YOU not DGS.

Kicking happens all the time, most people mutter sorry and swim on if anything at all, I don't think I've ever had anyone actually stop and apologise, it's just one of those things. In this instance she should have taken more care in the first place, but failing that she should have apologised and then taken more care.

By all means complain about the attendants allowing lane type swimming in a learner pool, also about making it clear when people arrive which pools are available for what type of swimming. I think your reaction to this one particular person is way over the top, talking of ripping her fucking head off hardly makes you seem rational and mature.

Sneezecakesmum Sun 25-May-14 13:19:51

No. I would not have bothered if she had kicked me (she did lightly) or DD who she also kicked lightly. My outrage is that someone feels entitled to kick a small vulnerable child, in a learner pool, not apologise or acknowledge that and they were not pulled up about it.

I want to prevent the same situation happening again. If that's unreasonable then so be it.

Sneezecakesmum Sun 25-May-14 13:22:14

The head ripping was at the time I was angry. I'm not angry any longer.

SpecialAgentFreyPie Sun 25-May-14 13:22:22

... No-one has said you're U for demanding better supervision...

shockinglybadteacher Sun 25-May-14 13:24:32

Sneezecakesmum, yeah. You are.

Not all adults like children, let alone "will care for them and not hurt them and if they accidentally hurt them they will say sorry". That's not a realistic expectation for a human adult, and it is not for a human child either. Leading children to expect that is kind of dangerous, especially if they have SN and might not see danger signs.

The woman likely never saw him, made a mistake and was too embarrassed to stop, or just was a bit of an idiot. She might have realised afterwards what she did or maybe not. We have absolutely no idea. I doubt she woke up and her goal for the day was "kicking a disabled child in the chest".

Let this one go, seriously. It was a clumsy swimmer in the wrong area, not a personal attack.

Sneezecakesmum Sun 25-May-14 13:29:04

Heavens.......and this is a website aimed primarily at parents and carers of children!

I'm hiding this thread now as I can't believe the number of people making excuses for a grown woman kicking a child in the chest.

kali110 Sun 25-May-14 13:34:48

How do you know she knew who she kicked?maybe she thought it was another adult?
Still deserves an apology but how do you know she knew who she kicked?

MrsMaturin Sun 25-May-14 13:41:33

Oh FFS OP. You're behaving like a child now. Grow the hell up. Your grandson was kicked by accident in the water by what appears to be a rude and entitled person. He was NOT assaulted. He was not kicked because he was a child. The person you're angry with is yourself because you didn't protect him. Well from your own account he wasn't upset or seriously injured so LET IT GO. you're doing yourself no favours with this display of petulance. The reason you've got the responses you object to is not because we're all being mean. It's because you are describing an accident and you're behaving all out of proportion to this.

SpecialAgentFreyPie Sun 25-May-14 13:46:06

So for all your drama, what would you say if I was dealing with myDISABLED son and he ACCIDENTALLY kicked you in the chest???

Glastokitty Sun 25-May-14 14:16:13

Oh fgs. I go swimming a lot and almost every time I go to the pool I get kicked or hit by a football. Once I was hit three times in one visit!. My next house is going to have its own pool. grin

MrsCripps Sun 25-May-14 15:17:24

Woman swims in pool shock

OP you sound as if you were trying to disrupt her swim intentionally from the start.
Its not rocket science that you will probably be accidently kicked if people are swimming lengths- I would move my DC to a quieter area.

Your DGC was kicked because you wanted to prove a point- are you one of those people who lets their DC wander in front of swings and then does the whole drama and glaring when they get hit in the head?

JonesRipley Sun 25-May-14 15:34:49

Bruffin

It is strange how determined you are to call the OP a liar

bruffin Sun 25-May-14 16:21:58

I dont think i have called her a liar. I think she is being a drama queen and exageratingHer grandchild didnt even cry, nor has she mentioned he was upset afterwards. The whole thing is a mountain out of a molehill.

PrimalLass Mon 26-May-14 10:49:21

Not all adults like children, let alone "will care for them and not hurt them and if they accidentally hurt them they will say sorry". That's not a realistic expectation for a human adult

Really?

ShutUpShouty Mon 26-May-14 12:53:22

OP, I'm confused. Do you think she kicked your grandson by accident or deliberately? Your original post comes across as being very angry and aggressive - "dared to be in her way and which gave her the right to kick a 5 year old disabled boy in the chest!",
"AIBU to want to rip her fucking head off? " that kind of aggression implies you think it was on purpose. Later on though you said you're not saying she did it deliberately yet you still want to "rip her head off". confused Bit of an overreaction for something that you acknowledge may very well have been an accident. If somebody accidentally knocks into you on the street do you want to "rip their head off" too? You sound scary. I hope I don't ever bump into you.

Also re: swimming pools, I go swimming regularly. I have been kicked by other swimmers in the pool quite a few times, I myself have also accidentally kicked other swimmers - that's just to be expected with moving limbs near other people. When this happens it's not really the 'done' thing to stop and apologise, everyone just continues swimming because like I said it's just the sort of thing you expect when swimming in close proximity to other people and also it's not really practical to keep stopping and apologising every time you accidentally hit someone.

ShutUpShouty Mon 26-May-14 13:03:55

No. I would not have bothered if she had kicked me (she did lightly) or DD who she also kicked lightly. My outrage is that someone feels entitled to kick a small vulnerable child, in a learner pool, not apologise or acknowledge that and they were not pulled up about it.

But I thought you said yourself that it was an accident? That's what you said in your post yesterday at 12:09:00 yet here you've said that you wouldn't mind so much if it was you she'd kicked or DD but it's the fact she'd kicked your small vulnerable child and that she felt "entitled" to do that. Which is it - was it accident or did she feel entitled to kick a small vulnerable child? It can't be both.

Why are you so outraged over an accident? Why do you insist that she thinks she owns the pool and is entitled because of an accident? confused Is it the fact she didn't apologise? Because your posts have been more fixated on the fact she kicked him rather than the apology. How do you know she thinks she owns the pool? Are you a mind reader?

Re: apologies, I swim regularly and have been kicked and have kicked other people because that's just what happens. Nobody stops to apologise because that wouldn't really be practical - if it happens when you're close to the side of the pool people might apologise however if it's in the middle people generally don't.

Alpacacino Mon 26-May-14 14:39:12

What a horrible, horrible thread! Why is the OP's language in her initial post being over analysed? To prove what point exactly?

Why is it not legitimate for her to vent her (legitimate!) anger in this way - this is being done all over mumsnet!

I cannot believe that there is so little empathy with the OP's DGS; and so little understanding of how you feel as a mum or grandmother when your child gets hurt in such a way.

it was the woman's duty to be considerate to other people in the pool, very obviously so. She wasn't. It's good - and brave! - of the OP to write to the management that there need to be clearer rules.

Shutup, Owl, etc - calm down, dears.

salsmum Mon 26-May-14 14:54:12

Sneezecakesmum; try and find out if you can get access to a hydrotherapy pool near you...I find with my DD being disabled that she gets cold quickly and Hydro is better for their muscles because the water is slightly warmer...I KWYM about SOME lane swimmers but in a small hydro pool not only can you meet other parents/kids but you can stay safe too.

InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream Mon 26-May-14 16:05:21

sneeze you are clearly in the right and this woman was obviously an ignorant pig. Much like all the posters ripping you to pieces on here for no discernable reason. If you kick someone by accident in a pool you APOLOGISE. Profusely.

Softlysoftlycatchymonkey Mon 26-May-14 16:16:39

mrscripps are you on glue ???

ShutUpShouty Mon 26-May-14 18:17:07

Alpacacino there is really no need for me to "calm down" as I was never uncalm in the first place.

I do think the OP is unnecessarily angry. If anyone needs to calm down it's her. The OP admits herself that it was most probably just an accident (though tbh, it's hard to tell as she seems to contradict herself a lot) yet she seems very angry and aggressive for someone who believes it was an accident. Unless Alpacacino you believe it's acceptable to wish you'd "ripped someone's head off" over an accident?

fluffyfanjo Mon 26-May-14 19:13:29

No. I would not have bothered if she had kicked me (she did lightly) or DD who she also kicked lightly. My outrage is that someone feels entitled to kick a small vulnerable child, in a learner pool, not apologise or acknowledge that and they were not pulled up about it.

So she managed to kick your DD,yourself and DGS (that you were holding)? Are you sure it wasn't an octopus ?

InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream Mon 26-May-14 19:16:35

You'd be angry too if some swimmer kicked your family 3 times and didn't even have the common decency to apologise. confused

InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream Mon 26-May-14 19:17:42

Fluffy she has explained very clearly how they were kicked

ShutUpShouty Mon 26-May-14 19:45:32

You'd be angry too if some swimmer kicked your family 3 times and didn't even have the common decency to apologise.

Not really, I'm not an angry person. I've had people do far worse to me than kick me in a swimming pool but I'm not angry at them smile.

ShutUpShouty Mon 26-May-14 19:45:54

Are you sure it wasn't an octopus ?

grin

InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream Mon 26-May-14 19:50:19

shutup oh so you expect everyone else to be as ludicrously laid back as you?

ShutUpShouty Mon 26-May-14 19:55:34

space you need to calm down dear, it's not the end of the world smile. Have a nice cup of tea.

I'm a very forgiving person, probably too forgiving.

I sincerely hope nobody rips my head off next time I'm in the pool. That would be awkward.

InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream Mon 26-May-14 20:01:53

shutup if you freely admit to being 'too forgiving', then why are you giving OP a hard time? Standing up for your family is hardly overreacting

ShutUpShouty Mon 26-May-14 20:25:04

Because I don't think it's acceptable to want to rip someone's head off or lay into them or any of the other things the OP wanted to do to that woman for a mere accident (I say it was an accident because the OP admitted herself that she probably didn't do it deliberately and was most likely an accident and speaking from experience as a swimmer, getting kicked/being kicked is not unusual).

I do find her posts very aggressive and over the top. She has admitted several times throughout the thread that it was probably an accident, yet the OP still wants to "rip her head off", accused her of being "entitled", "entitled to kick a vulnerable disabled child" and a "bully" and has also jumped to loads of other conclusions about this woman with nothing to back them up simply because of a mere accident! hmm The woman should have apologised, if she couldn't have done it then, then she could have done it when she'd reached the end however the OP has said she wasn't bothered about the not apologising bit, it was the kick she was angry about. Still, that's a lot of anger and aggression over something that has a good chance of being an accident.

I'm going swimming tomorrow. I'm also disabled (although my difficulties aren't always obvious) and if someone kicks me, even if by accident, I shall make a point of ripping their head off.

InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream Mon 26-May-14 20:41:00

She didn't ACTUALLY want to rip her head off you know. It's a figure of speech. Honestly, what a fuss. hmm

ShutUpShouty Mon 26-May-14 20:51:39

Well I think you've missed my point completely a bit but never mind. Now go have that cup of tea and relax for a bit.

InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream Mon 26-May-14 21:11:40

Yes, of course,i'm the one who cannot grasp a point and needs to calm down. hmm. Okaaay

MrsCripps Mon 26-May-14 21:28:00

No not on glue.
Am sensible enough to know that if someone is swimming lengths up and down the pool you don't stand in the way just to make your passive aggressive point thus exposing your DGC to the risk of being kicked .

ShutUpShouty Mon 26-May-14 21:30:46

I'm glad you agree space smile

You know the more I talk to you the more I like you.

InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream Mon 26-May-14 21:32:09

Hehehehe

ShutUpShouty Mon 26-May-14 21:33:06

smile

ComposHat Mon 26-May-14 22:13:36

Threads like this reqlly rip my knitting.

op sets out their position.

Told she is nbu (because she isn't)

Several pages of posters saying YANBU.

Some contrary buggers get bored of page after page of yanbu and start reading all kinds of stuff that isn't in the thread/projecting all kind of nonsense, just so they can declare yabu.

A self righteous twat like me turns up and shakes their head and declares that this shows Mumsnet in its worst light.

QuintessentiallyQS Tue 27-May-14 08:37:57

Ay well said Compos

bruffin Tue 27-May-14 08:42:36

"Several pages of posters saying YANBU."

Except there wasnt several pages of posters saying YANBU hmm

Softlysoftlycatchymonkey Tue 27-May-14 11:56:27

so where would you stand then mrscripps ? Would you just cling to the wall if people were belting up and down?

If your in lane swimming, then that's what you should be doing. If your in the free swim side then nobody owns it.

auntjane2 Tue 27-May-14 12:45:14

The sensible thing to do would have been to have had a word with the lifeguards about her behaviour. The lifeguards are supposed to be watching the pool, would know whether "the middle aged woman's" swimming is habitually so dangerous to other people and would be able to speak to her sensibly to suggest how she might change her behaviour.

IceBeing Tue 27-May-14 13:37:55

wow MN...just wow.

If I kicked anyone for any reason in a pool I would apologise.

It is that simple really....

YANBU.

No idea why people are so invested in the idea of finding something wrong with you, the pool, your care of your DGS or anything else...guess they must have very boring lives...or it must be half term or something.

ComposHat Tue 27-May-14 14:04:24

No idea why people are so invested in the idea of finding something wrong with you, the pool, your care of your DGS or anything else...guess they must have very boring lives...or it must be half term or something.

Brings out their inner Columbo I guess... the OP must be proved wrong by any means foul or fair.

Yes, even if it was an accident, not stopping to check the poor kid was okay and to apologise is callous in the extreme. I can't stand it when people show no consideration for those around them, it is particularly prevalent round here with joggers running on busy pavements. They just want to plough on at the same pace in a dead straight line and woe betide anyone who gets in their way. If you are running or swimming in a public area, there are going to be times when you'll need to slow down or alter your course to accommodate others.

bruffin Tue 27-May-14 14:42:53

The swimmer would not have been able to kick OP unless she was already passed her and facing away from her, which why the OPs insistance that she must have known she had kicked doesnt make sense.

ComposHat Tue 27-May-14 14:48:42

It doesn't matter what way the Op was facing. If you strike out with your feet in the water and hit something solid, it doesn't take Einstein to work out that you've kicked someone.

ProudAS Tue 27-May-14 16:25:01

Unless you've got nerve problems like a PP on thus thread

ScrambledSmegs Tue 27-May-14 16:39:13

Since when was it ever ok to kick someone when swimming? Is it really considered normal and the fault of the kickee for getting in the way? Even if that person is a young child?

I am utterly amazed at the sheer unpleasantness of humanity, sometimes.

sunshinecity17 Tue 27-May-14 23:00:28

' really rip my knitting;

love it.love it love it!!!

sunshinecity17 Tue 27-May-14 23:05:37

Oh FGS this has gone on long enough.Suck it up,Buttercup!
You get kicked at swimming.Often.
Sometimes the swimmer misjudges the separation, sometimes someone moves into their path and there isn't time to take avertive action.Sometimes it is a bit of both.I don't know wjat happened here, you don't know what happened here, I doubt even the OP knows what happened.
99.9 % of people accept that it is an occupational hazard of going swimming .get over it.

MotorLoo Tue 27-May-14 23:23:34

yanbu op. You sound perfectly sane and reasonable to me. I'm completely shock at the comments people are making against you. So what if wanting to rip her head off is a bit ott? Obviously you aren't literally going to rip her head off. ffs, can't people understand that you were holding a vulnerable, physically weak little boy who was hurt by someone who should know better - of course accidents happen but not apologising is so awful. Ok, she may have been short sighted or whatever but she would've felt the impaxtr. And how can.people compare it to stubbing a toe or grazing another adult swimmer? This thread is bonkers, honestly. Op, you have every right to be shocked, upset and angry flowers.

shockinglybadteacher Wed 28-May-14 00:28:35

But it was an accident! You'd be an arse not to apologise if you realised what you had done (not always clear in crowded pool), but it's an arsey thing like being in a hurry and bumping into someone then speeding off. Not an evil thing like deliberately and viciously taking aim and kicking a disabled child in the chest, which is what some people are making it out like.

And yeah, I don't think it's a great idea to teach a small child that adults all want to care for him and be kind to him and will always apologise if they hurt him in any way. In an ideal world they would. But we do not live in an ideal world and while this woman was just inattentive and rude, we know there are adults out there with rather more malign intent. I reckon teaching children in effect to trust everyone they meet unconditionally because all adults want what's best for them, in view of this fact, is an error.

I totally agree with ComposHat. If you kick someone in the water, you know you've done it, and approximately how hard. Even if you'd passed someone and kicked out behind. So you apologise.

I went swimming last night. I accidentally kicked someone and apologised. I got kicked and they apologised to me.

It's not rocket science.

Pagwatch Wed 28-May-14 10:14:07

Is this the bit where people rock up moaning how long this has been going on and post a 'fgs, op it is obvious that....and therefore...' attempt at a <gavel>

Is this still going on?

Sneezecakesmum Wed 28-May-14 12:51:53

I did hide this thread and am surprised it has continued in my absence, but I was sick of being called a liar, a drama queen, my account of the incident being called into question and the final straw was being told not all people like children and they should expect to be kicked by a thoughtless adult if said adult was that way inclined. (And this is called mumsnet?!)

Lots of decent replies though and people not determined to rip me to shreds for being upset at the incident.

I took the advice of a poster and emailed the pool manager and guess what. The phenomenon lane rage is well recognised!

Now I understand where all the aggression towards me was coming from. It was a dry land example of lane rage directed at someone who objected to a child being hurt. I now understand all you lane ragers need to stick together and tear into someone who stands up to you.

Luckily the pool manager also informed me that he has personally had to reprimand swimmers behaving in this way, and we were just unfortunate to have been subjected to lane rage and were subjected to a 'kick' (not deliberate as I have said many times but with complete disregard or care as to whether anyone was kicked in the process of this woman's bully boy tactics, including a small child).

Email .....

Regarding the incident with the swimmer I am sorry this was the case and undoubtedly spoiled your session to an extent. As you pointed out contact with other bathers does happen and we find for the most part this is unintentional and all parties are genuinely apologetic and try to be courteous swimmers. However there are exceptions and it seems you were possibly the unfortunate victim of a phenomenon coined as ‘lane rage’ in my experience of dealing with this type of incident it is often people who would normally behave in a very respectful way to others that seem to get frustrated whilst swimming and kick, slap, ram or splash others who are in their immediate vicinity

Please do not continue with this thread. I now feel supported in RL by the people that matter and will never allow anyone to treat us in this way again.

Sneezecakesmum Wed 28-May-14 12:58:26

thanks to the reasonable people that were supportive and the lady who said email! Feeling much happier with things now. Xxxx

The rest of you can get on your bike

InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream Wed 28-May-14 13:01:03

Good for you Sneeze. Ignore all the burks.

InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream Wed 28-May-14 13:01:49

Or is it berk? Whatever

mercibucket Wed 28-May-14 13:11:17

Wow what a long and angry thread.

herecomesthesunlala Wed 28-May-14 13:15:24

So you, your GS and DD were all kicked? Sounds like you were all getting in the way! If you are going to just stand there with a child, stand to the side!

She should have said sorry though, I think most people would (if they hit a stationary person, not if the other person was swimming too though)

Sneezecakesmum Wed 28-May-14 14:11:24

For the hundredth time I was facing away from her. She came up behind me! DD was standing at the pool edge with a baby in her arms.

The only one who knew she was there was her. Do you expect DD to scramble out of her way? It was a shallow learner pool!

God forbid that she should have swum around us.

herecomesthesunlala Wed 28-May-14 14:18:38

It's a bit hypercritical to say that she should be looking where she was going when she was the one SWIMMING in the pool, making looking around difficult, and yet it's ok for you not to be looking when you were just standing around? Did you not hear her coming up behind you, really? Or were you just being annoying and refusing to move, but feel free to moan when you get accidentaly kicked?

MurkyMinotaur Wed 28-May-14 14:36:59

You do get some awkward scenarios in pools. It's lots of people moving around in a defined space. And to be honest, everyone (myself included) tends to default to assuming our own right of way is more important and legitimate. Whose attitude is always naturally, 'Well, let's see how I can best share this place with these other swimmers'?

It is right to apologise when you accidentally make contact with another swimmer. But the root issue is selfishness, I think. 'How dare they not treat me with the importance I deserve?' 'How dare they block my path?'. We're all the same.

Sneezecakesmum Wed 28-May-14 14:48:48

She didn't need to look round it was breast stroke she was looking ahead. Breast stroke is not a noisy splashy stroke so no I didn't hear anything. I was busy holding a child with armbands and a swim vest on so my concentration was where it should be. But I take your point and will try to grow some eyes in the back of my head so that I can get out of the way of adults swimming in a shallow learner pool. There was plenty of room it was not busy. She could have swum elsewhere but of course all the children should scatter when a real swimmer is in the learner pool confused

And I'm not moaning about me I'm complaining that a small child was heavily kicked.

Murky. This thread supports what the pool manager says about this red mist that a few swimmers get in a pool. Your experience sadly also. It's fair enough to have a 'get out of my way attitude' in a big pool with swimming lanes, but in a learner pool?

ChelsyHandy Wed 28-May-14 14:49:01

Sounds as though the pool management didn't adequately cater for people who wanted to swim that day. They should have perhaps made it clearer that swimming wasn't permitted, instead of blaming the user for swimming.

The OP was the only one who knew her child was disabled, and should therefore have taken more care. It sounds like the swimmer was already swimming when she went in, so the OP should have been aware of this. The swimmer most likely wouldn't notice someone new entering the pool if she was swimming.

Judging by the number of times I've been kicked by breastrokers, it really is possible to kick someone and not notice, or perhaps assume it is a slight brush.

At the end of the day, swimming pools are for swimming, and I'd always come out on the side of someone doing just that.

mercibucket Wed 28-May-14 15:00:28

It isn't the learner pool if it is the only pool available for swimmers. It is just the pool

I do not rate that reply from the manager. Why dont they lane off part of the pool or just close to 'swimmers' and have it as a toddler session if it is that tiny a pool

Sneezecakesmum Wed 28-May-14 15:08:45

Taken more in what way? It's a swimming pool there were people swimming and children splashing. I'm supposed to anticipate someone commencing a length at the opposite side of the pool?

Close the pool to swimmers? Just because one person behaves like an arse? Believe it or not it's possible to swim in a respectful manner.

It was a 1.1 metre learner pool. The other one had schoolchildren in it. Not big enough to cordon off.

mercibucket Wed 28-May-14 15:18:51

Of course you are supposed to anticipate someone setting off swimming laps!
Standard procedure
See where the lap swimmers are
Go elsewhere to play

Sneezecakesmum Wed 28-May-14 15:20:00

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

mercibucket Wed 28-May-14 15:25:22

Well i have reported your aggressive swearing but i think it is becoming clear who had the problem with swimming rage

Picturesinthefirelight Wed 28-May-14 15:28:23

" piss off"

But not in a pool obviously!!!!

Picturesinthefirelight Wed 28-May-14 15:29:17

Have any of the posters here ever seen or been in a learner pool. It's laughable to think someone can try to swim serious lengths in one!

Sneezecakesmum Wed 28-May-14 15:36:13

Asking for thread to be withdrawn as it's clear some sad people just enjoy winding others up.

mercibucket Wed 28-May-14 15:37:16

It really depends on the pool. We have two pools. Both used for swimming but one is more suitable for children as it is about 1.1 m deep (approx. My 6 year old cant stand in it but my 8 year old can)
That is not a 'learner' pool but is not ideal for lap swimming

Presumably it is not a 'toddler' pool where you cant really swim at all, as the centre is still selling tickets to swimmers

Pagwatch Wed 28-May-14 15:46:08

I suspect, and very much hope, that mnhq won't remove a thread just because you don't like the posts.

I would have thought it would be easier to just stop replying. Every time you post it bumps back into active convos.

MurkyMinotaur Thu 29-May-14 01:07:02

It is sad that people have a 'get out of my way' attitude. It's a lot like using roads in that respect! I think we're all that way, to be honest.

It's tricky. I'm usually the door mat who waits for a space before starting a lap, stops, treads water, zigzags etc to give other swimmers space. I seem considerate, but inside I have the same 'me first' attitude, it's just that it manifests in me getting frustrated about having allowed others to go first! Haha. Same thing really.

sunshinecity17 Fri 30-May-14 08:54:31

so why doesn't the manager rope off a lane for teh serious swimmers then?

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