to think it's perfectly normal that tenants would need to dry their clothes somehow, either indoors or outdoors?(84 Posts)
I have realised on 're reading my new lease that there is a clause that says I am not allowed to hang a line outside to dry my clothes. I am not allowed to use a clothes airer and drying clothes on the radiators is not permitted.
Without a tumble dryer, what are you supposed to do? No laundrette within 13 miles
Fwiw, I have put up a line anyway, years ago without complaint and I also use a clothes airer and I hang stuff to warm through on the radiators if necessary ffs
Ignore it (as you have done ). They have put it in to try and blame you if the house gets damp. It's bloody stupid.
Are they generally good landlords? Some of them seem to have sudden attacks of idiot but mostly be lovely. I don't know why.
Well I can understand about not drying clothes inside but to say you can't have washing on a line is stupid, not sure you can do anything about it now you've signed...
I think the no outside line ridiculous, I know its common in some countries but thought we had more sense. I hope this doesn't become more common. It would put me off moving if this was a condition.
I understand the no radiator/clothes airer is to stop condensation but if you had a basic tumble dryer this wouldn't be vented and chuck out damp air anyway
I would email the landlord and ask them for their preferred method of drying clothes, considering the Laundrette is 13 miles away.
Do they just not want you to drill into the wall or something? I can’t think of any reason not to dry clothes outside, carry on as you are imo.
I don't follow how they can stop you using a clothes airer? If you stand it up outside?
I can understand not hanging over radiators/not putting up a line, but not the other.
I agree, ask them how you're meant to do it.
If it only says that you can't hang a line outside, surely the easiest way around this would be to get a floor-standing rotary line? You can even get some with weighted bases that don't require any drilling into the ground.
Failing that, I highly recommend a condensing tumble dryer if you have the funds and the space. Ours cost <£200, is not expensive to run, and is as easy to remove and reinstall as a freezer. I resisted buying luxury white goods while renting, but the condensing dryer and the slimline dishwasher have completely converted me.
I don't know if the landlord has read it as its signed on his behalf by the letting agent.
I just find it arbitrary
I bet he landlady doesnt have problem with it. Is probably just a contract they churn out for everyone. Lots of apartments here don't allow outside drying but I think it's very unfair.
Banning drying clothes inside is ridiculous anyway. What are you supposed to do in winter?
Or Spring, Summer and Autumn for that matter. It's not like it never rains here.
Are you in a house or flats? The past three flat blocks I have lived in, including our current one, has a no washing outside on balconies rule. My BIL put an airer out there when they were staying with us a couple of years ago and the
dickhead man who runs the residents' committee had pushed a copy of the rules through the door with the relevant paragraph highlighted within about 10 minutes. I think it's something to do with having the outside of the building look nice!
We bought a little cheapo dryer from Argos that lives in the corner of the spare bedroom with a throw over it and then gets pulled out and the hose stuck out the window.
Yeah, as a LL I totally understand about not drying clothes inside but not having a washing line outside - WT actual F.
Like someone pointed out, maybe the LL doesn't want one of those ones with the posts concreted into the garden - you can get whirly ones on a stand now I think.
Is it one of those posh places where it isn't seen as a nice sight? My dad has an apartment in Spain and they are not allowed to hang towels over the balcony. Are you in a flat or a house?
It's a house with a garden. All the neighbouring properties have washing lines too
Anyway I will cheer the fuck up, get some fresh air and walk the dog
Maybe i could attach wet sheets to my back like a cape whilst I do so
unenforceable contract. clothes have to be dried somewhere.
obviously drying clothes indoors is not ideal, but if you ventilate and heat properly then it is fine. Similarly a line in the garden is only sensible!
sounds a standard clause. You could check with the landlord but as I said, you have to dry your washing somewhere.
places that complain about washing hung outside are my pet hate. We need to reduce energy use and that means minimising tumble drying.
I'm not allowed to dry washing outside on my balcony.
I haven't tried it but suspect strongly I would get the rules through the door sharpish. It is the kind of place but actually enforcing the rules is why it is a nice place to live - high density, high rise housing can only work if people follow basic rules for living - some are more onerous than others eg. I find not being able to dry my washing outside crazy but I am truly grateful that there are prescribed (and enforced) hours for internal alterations/ DIY so my weekends and evenings don't routinely get disturbed.
Because I am a contrary bastard, who dislikes following pointless rules that make no sense at all, I would ignore such a rule.
I don't like tumble driers anyway as they ruin your clothes and that's before you get to the cost and environmental argument.
And tough about balconies 'looking nice'. If someone is offended by the sight of washing, they should be grateful they have nothing worse to worry about.
I'm sure no-one who is otherwise paying their rent etc can be evicted without a court order, and then surely the Unfair Terms and Conditions Regulations could be used to win the case?
Oh - well in a house with a garden that sounds mad!
we arent supposed to have a line in the gardens here but all the houses have one of those whirly things instead (apart from my neighbour who has taken their whirly out and has a retractable line instead). It doesnt say you cant have one of them if it only specifies a line.
My contract says no washing in the garden. Apparently it doesn't look naice. I like in a country cottage on a farm
DP lives in a new build flat. Not allowed to dry clothes on the balcony. However his neighbour stores weeks of bin bags on his balcony because he can't be arsed to walk them downstairs. That's apparently fine
But my contract also says I'm not allowed to be under the influence of alcohol within my house. And if I'm going to be away for more than 24hrs I'm to inform my landlord.
Yep. I know.
Bloody hell, Pantone363! My previous contract said that we had to inform the lettings agent if we were going away for >2 weeks, but they were always when we actually did so...
DS's 'apartments' have this clause. They are a rather posh complex (and he and his GF must stick out like a sore thumb being young and not driving BMW's lol) with fancy communal gardens and grounds and one of their clauses is they aren't allowed to dry outside.
They have storage heaters inside so drying on those is difficult. They have big patio doors in the lounge so in winter they pull a clothes maid in front of the doors whilst they are at work and the sun (should there be any) dries the washing. In summer they are a bit naughty and drag it just outside the patio doors into the posh grounds.
Nobody has complained about them yet.
If all else fails I get the "muuuuuum" phone call and a bag of washing
Ours says the same thing, I've ignored it and put up a washing line like all the neighbours. We're also not allowed to hang pictures, put up shelves, switch energy suppliers or get a water meter put in I hate renting!
My contract says loads if crap and about 98% is not law a court would laugh them out of the building.
Same as the must allow access with 24 hours notice.. Wrong
Must give 2 months notice.. Wrong
Even no pet clauses are against human rights or something according to Brussels contract must state that permission will not be withheld without good reason blah blah...
Just ignore and follow the only legal bits..
Rent due date
Acting in a tennant like way (report faults)
Some people really object to washing lines. There was a thread recently from someone who was deciding against renting a particular flat because the neighbours had washing lines.
I don't get the concept at all. I'm happy to abstain from hanging pictures or shelving, but protecting the delicate neighbours from the sight of a drying t-shirt is too big an ask for me! Especially as tumble dryers add to the electricity bill.
In our old flat we has a clause that said we weren't allowed to dry washing inside. We did anyway.
Our house is on farmland too and believe me, the carpets and decor in this place us far more offensive than my sainsburys granny knickers hanging in the line for all to see <sucks teeth>
I saw a beautiful hare on my walk
Dear god i think i'd lamp anyone who insisted i wasn't allowed to dry our clothes in the house! There's 5 adult size people (one who has a filthy day job) and a baby in this family. So 2 wash loads a day minimum - plus all the bedding etc,; it'd cost a fortune in electricity to run a dryer after every wash! Jesus. I'm not the bloody Aga Khan!
And not allowed a line up in the garden??
Pay a bloody fortune to rent a place and then not be allowed to live a normal life? ... bollocks to that
Our landlord + lady kindly provided the
bloomin great supporting pole for our 20 meter out door line, were fine about DH doing a small cement footing for it into the lawn, and a year in have never quizzed us on our indoor clothes drying habits at all. Neither did our last land-lord, and we were his tenants for 5 years.
We back onto 30 unbroken miles of countryside here too OP. How daft to worry about the 'look' of a washing line. Personally i think a long line of good clean laundry flapping in the breeze is a lovely sight
Owllady, you brightened my day when you said you might leave the house with all your laundry pinned to you..I think you should go directly to letting agent and ask to peg a few socks and maybe a pair of knickers to him/ her for drying purposes..
That's just ridiculous.
Keep breaking the rules.
It feels sooo good!
I ignore most of the rules. As long as you leave it the way you got the property (which I always do) they will never know anyway?! Our old LL said we couldn't switch leccy suppliers (lol) we were with southern electric who are notoriously expensive, we switched to Npower within a few weeks. If i ever put pics up before i leave i refill the whole it's left, paint over, etc etc. Keep doing what you like!
How much washing do you do?
Would a clothes airer suffice for outdoors?
Surely with a window open it's OK?
Is the place tiny, is your washing still dripping wet when it comes out of the machine?
Otherwise what are they afraid of if you dry washing indoors?
I absolutely adore the idea of you walking round like a laundry version of batman. I think this is one of those backup clauses just in case something happens, like the no parts of this motorcycle are edible sign
Below is what Moneysavingexpert says about changing your gas and electric if you are renting:
(short answer - yes you can (probably)).
Q: I'm renting, can landlords dictate which electricity provider I use?
A: If you pay the gas and electricity bill directly (not via the landlord), you can and should compare and switch. Don't stick with the previous tenants' supplier as often it's costly. Always do a meter reading as soon as you move in.
You have a right to do this without your landlord's permission, though it is worth checking your tenancy agreement just in case it's a breach. If it is, communicate with the landlord - nothing changes for it if you switch, so it shouldn't be an issue.
Even if your tenancy agreement says you can't switch, challenge it. Preventing a tenant from changing energy suppliers may be viewed as an unfair term in a tenancy agreement, so talk to Citizens Advice to see if it can help. If you pay your landlord for energy, it's their choice.
I have the garden rule. Despite that I own the property, and it's my sodding garden I'm not allowed to have "clothing on view"
The deeds of my (owned with a mortgage) house forbid me from hanging washing in the front garden. This does not matter as the large side and rear gardens provide more than sufficient space.
I am also not supposed to have any livestock (pigs, goats etc) and not more than one cat/dog.
When we moved in we had four cats - the solicitor said he had never heard of a case where an owner had been in trouble for breaking this clause without the animals (usually dogs) being a specific nuisance, so we took a risk.
I'm sure there are one or two other bizarro clauses, probably down to the house originally being a tenanted council house.
Why do so many people think it's reasonable for them to forbid you from drying your own clothes in your own house? Outside clothes lines are only usable for half the year, if you're lucky enough to get dry weather occasionally. And it's your home. Of course you should be able to dry clothes in it!
Because drying them on the radiator will damage paint or paper behind it, and drying them indoors without opening windows will build up condensation.
Obviously, it should be perfectly clear to any sensible person how to avoid both of those issues, but I think that's what LL/LA tend to be worried about. It's easier to put in a clause and then point to it if damage is done.
I am guessing if you did no damage, they would not care, would they?
My rental contact says this too. However, when the LL showed me the house one of his biggest selling points was the fab ceiling clothes dryer in the kitchen. It's marvellous for drying clothes.
SociallyAcceptable - I think it's often reasonable to forbid tenants from drying clothes inside unless they purchase an adequate dehumidifier, because many properties don't have sufficient ventilation to prevent condensation from causing damp (especially as the weather that prevents people from drying clothes outside also deters them from opening windows). The clause will only become an issue for the tenant if they dry stuff inside without taking adequate precautions to prevent damp, so those who choose dry inside "illicitly" but don't cause any harm won't be affected.
I say this as a long-term tenant, not a landlord or homeowner. I bought a condensing dryer this year because I couldn't find any other way of drying the clothes without damaging the LL's property, and consider it fair enough.
However, I do think it would be nice if LLs were required to provide a functioning and energy-efficient tumble dryer if they do forbid drying clothes indoors, or a user-operated extractor fan in a room with adequate space for drying clothes if not. That's because it's often too expensive or otherwise impracticable for tenants to make these changes on their own, as they can't plan on being in a property for the long term.
You can change energy suppliers even if it's in the contact if you are renting if you are paying the bill. The estate agents know this but hope you don't. Talk to cab
I have the same rule about drying clothes outside. No lines, no clothes to be dried on the balcony. So we dry inside and hey presto, damp flat.
However, I have ignored the rules about plants on balcony or windowsill (apparently fireman find pots of basil an insurmountable obstacle when they need to break in) and the one that says my front door mat is a trip hazard. Oh, and I totally ignore the best rule of all, which is that cars are not to be parked in the car park. My place is bonkers.
In my contract for my house it says you are not allowed to go out while the washing machine is on!
Needless to say I ignore that one.
I used to live in an apartment overlooking the marina and we were not allowed to hang washing out on the balcony but all properties had a washer/dryer installed.
paragirl1981 - Is the doormat inside your flat or in the corridor? If inside then it's completely bizarre, if outside then I think you have to blame the silly and inconsiderate people who do manage to create trip hazards. One of our neighbours did put one out which was a hazard - it was really thick, really large, the same colour as the carpet, and curled up at the edges, so it was easy to fall over if you were carrying shopping and couldn't see the floor. I imagine it would have been quite dangerous to anybody who was blind or visually impaired.
The washing machine one seems fair enough to me as well - I never leave my washing machine, dishwasher, or dryer on when we're out as I'm worried about our pets being trapped if something catches fire. Living in flats, my main fear was of people falling asleep with cigarettes or leaving pans, appliances, and hair irons "on" and unattended.
I'm not normally a "mad tenancy rules" apologist, though. The only ones I'm in favour of are the ones which really do make a difference to safety, or which are there to protect the landlord from any damage to the property which is caused by people breaking them without taking reasonable precautions.
I'd ignore it, how will they ever know you'd dried washing inside. They can't just barge into your flat without your consent.
In my very first private rental about 14 years ago, we weren't allowed to shake rugs or carpets outside the doors or windows.
It was a relief tbh, I had been laying awake at night worrying about how I would fit in all the rug shaking around work and going to the pub.
Get a heated rail off ebay.Best 35 quid Ive ever spent.
YANBU at all. Our flat is insanely damp, mould everywhere - on the ceilings, walls etc. The landlord said it was because we dry our washing inside. Given we have no tumble drier or garden, where on earth did he think we were going to dry them?
I had a damp problem in my flat which I could see was from the chimney as it originated in a quarter of the chimney breast (4 storey house conversion). I asked the landlord to check the chimney, after all there had been storms. He printed out a pile of a4 all about the bad and naughty things tenants do that cause damp, which included clothes drying. It listed, I am not kidding, it listed breathing as an illegal and bad cause of damp. Tenants really shouldn't breathe indoors, it's very inconsiderate to the landlord, we're not paying to have somewhere to breathe!
Anyway, it was the chimney. One of the vacant basement flats had a foot of water in it because the chimney was broken at the top and it was seeping up. Not that he either apologised or paid for a replacement sofa after it got completely infested with mould even though I alternated open windows and a dehumidifier.
YANBU at all, if landlords don't think a property is suitable for living in - and drying clothes is part of living - they shouldn't be renting it out. Absolutely ridiculous to say you can't have a line. Even providing a tumble dryer and forcing you to use it would be unreasonable.
ladyvetinari, I'll answer the question about the mat - it is in the corridor but we are at the back of the building on the top floor so no one ever walks past it, iyswim. It's not a hazard to anyone (except possibly dp coming home pissed...), it's just another bloody stupid rule.
I have considered complaining about the manky old Xmas tree that gets dragged out every year into the lobby; am sure it could squash a small child or a
miserable elderly resident...or cause a small electrical fire...
I think yadbu. I think you have forgotten that you are not a person with the right to live your life the way yoy choose. You are an animated part of the workforce, you need to work 13hrs a day, pay your taxes to the state, buy lots of things you dont really need (like tumble dryers as an example) and then go into your box with windows until you are next needed.
Sheesh, fancy thinking that renting space means you can use it to live in.
I understand a LL could get arsey if you dont stick to 'the rules' but those who own their property and have these covenents...so who is going to enforce them ?
I mean the police would love it if No 10 got arsey and reported you for the heinous crime of drying your drawers ?
I have nothing saying that I can't dry clothes indoors.
Treated like an adult, I act like one, and dry clothes indoors as little as possible, have adequete heating, ventilate a lot, don't dry in rooms where it creates the most condensation problem, and have a de humidifier.
I still have some black mould ( not to mention rising damp),but so do many people I know who are home owners.
None of us want to live with black mould -and it's the tenants who take the health risks, so I think it's up to the LL to put all the reasonable measures in place that they can to offer a means of wadhing and drying clothes without damage to the tenants health, or their property.
I got a letter from letting agents saying that I was not allowed to use a clothes horse that can be seen from outside the flat....ignored
Oldraver - I put an airer outside in a glorious day and got a phone call from my management company within an hour. Damn neighbours
Is it a block of flats? In which case it's probably not an unreasonable clause, to stop the block becoming festooned in washing which I guess might make it less attractive for sales and lettings. But any sensible landlord or letting agent would have told you this when they were showing you the flat, and made you aware that you would need to budget on buying a tumble dryer.
I manage 19 flats and houses and it is a nightmare when tenants dry all their washing inside, it ruins the house and then they accuse me of letting them a damp house! So, far better to stick a line up outside if you don't have a tumble dryer. As others have said, there are all sorts of irrelevant clauses in standard leases, designed to cover every eventuality in every sort of property. If no one's complained, you're fine.
Mine is a ground floor with garden, block of 3 so not sort of likely to be festooned in washing! Nowhere for a tumble dryer
I now use a heated airer and sneak the other one outside when the neighbours are out
YANBU at all. Me and DH once rented a flat in a very posh area where there was a rule that you couldn't dry washing outside because it made the area look less posh.
We were allowed to dry it indoors though and our LL was lovely, it was some stupid rule of the entire area and people actually gave a shit when someone dared hang their washing out.
It's a house with a garden
And you will all stone me now...
I do have a tumble dryer but that really isn't the point!
If you cannot afford a tumble dryer (or afford to run one) what are you supposed to do?
The humble dryer has to sit on top of the washing machine in an enclosed cupboard btw. The Ritz it is not
if it's a house with a garden then it's just silly! ignore.
I agree with toots. I am
fairly confident that no-one would be that bothered by hanging washing that they would go as far as complaining about it or try to get a tenant evicted for such an offence, that if I was that tenant, I would hang my washing out as I saw fit.
And if someone tried to evict me, I would have my day in court and argue that preventing a normal household task was unreasonable and unfair, using the Unfair Terms and Conditions Regulations as my legal basis.
The thing is OP if you had a non-vented, non-condensor tumble dryer it would still put dampness into the air, so your LL would be better off allowing you to dry outside
Also what about the stuff that can't be tumble dried?
I hang it on the line or clothes airer then either dry through on the radiators or pop in the tumble dryer for a bit
Which is a condenser so I leave the door open to the mouldy cupboard with the leaking roof and it heats up the hall
I just want to tell them to do one tbh, but I don't have that luxury so I have moaned here
Blooming heck, I'd be worried about damp and also respiratory infections if I was regularly running a non-vented, non-condensing tumble dryer! At the very least I'd get a dehumidifier for use on tumble-drying days if I were in your position.
In general, though, I don't disagree with you. I think all rental properties should come with a user-operated extractor fan and a ceiling-mounted drying rack in the kitchen (which is generally a humidity-resistant room), or in the bathroom if there's only a kitchenette. I also think that landlords should have to provide a line if there's outdoor space, and an energy efficient spin-dryer or washer-dryer if the property is furnished/part-furnished. It would be good for tenants, and it would spare landlords from dealing with damp.
Just saw your update - a condensing dryer is fine! That's what I have and the minor increase in electricity costs is far outweighed by the improvement in air quality and living space.
I have that in my contract too. Weird, as there is a very handy clothes line in the garden.
According to my contract, I also can't sing, play a radio, watch a television, or invite visitors round, in my own home.
Nor am I allowed to keep pigeons.
I have ignored all of these, except the pigeons :lol:
I live in a development of houses and flats and was a director of the management company. The entire area was leasehold and the document stated that no washing should be visible from outside the property. But this only applied to flats. Houses apparently could dry the washing as they wished. We had a few years when one harridan would patrol the gardens searching for visible washing, which in some flats could basically mean pretty much any washing anywhere if the curtains were open.
The maipn issue we had was that landlords would not communicate to tenants what the rules actually were, which was very frustrating.
In theory we had the power to take people to court for breaking rules like this and they could be forced to forfeit their lease. We didn't do it for washing, but we put the process in motion over another issue, but the landlord did a runner to Spain and the mortgage company repossessed it first.
All the traditional tenement flats in my area have drying greens with lines. All the new builds have grassy areas but no lines
Given the impact of drying clothes indoors, plus rising energy costs, I think it should be mandatory for new developments to have available outside drying space where possible.
It seems totally mad. When houses and appartments are constructed nowadays we (designers and builders)have to abide by all sorts of environmental legislation and standards, not just for the construction process but the long term design of the building, and how it will be used. BREAAM, code for sustainable homes and the like. we take great pains to make sure the building is energy efficient, and can be used in an environmentally friendly way.
All this fucking effort, then the muppet of a landlord / client takes possession and enforces a total fuckwankery of a policy about not air drying clothing because someone might not like the look of it.
Just fucking GRRRR
I would like to see a campaign to make clauses like that illegal.
Probably counts as an unfair contract clause. Ignore.
I don't think that's awful at all though. They are drying their clothes. At what point did drying your CLEAN clothes become unacceptable?
Anyway, my line is more like this
Given the impact of drying clothes indoors, plus rising energy costs, I think it should be mandatory for new developments to have available outside drying space where possible.
Yes. Totally. End of!
and landlords should provide a place to dry clothes because everyone needs to do washing.
I don't think it's ideal to have dirty, smelly people renting your house is it? If we think about the flip side
I think a lot (not all) of landlords forget that they are renting out a house to tenants, but those tenants are real people and it is their home, and they have lives to lead.
It's not like renting out a caravan or a rug doctor.
Am I the only one who thinks there's nothing nicer than a row of white nappies air-bleaching on the line? It always reminds me of warm relaxed summer days in the same way Calypso music does.
There are many eyesores in the average urban environment but CLEAN laundry isn't one of them! Litter, dog poo, graffiti, broken toys etc however is.
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