josie cunningham.

(435 Posts)
CunningAtBothEnds Sun 20-Apr-14 12:56:28

I have read an article on the above where she states despite being 18 weeks pregnant and pleased up until now she will be having an abortion to "further her career" namely to qppear on big brother.

whether this is morally ok is one thing but AIBU to ask if an abortion for the reasons she gives is legal? i suppose its similar to someone saying its not the right time, just more brazen?

(I consider myself pro choice btw I just find her apparent callousness a bit tough to take)

sharonthewaspandthewineywall Sun 20-Apr-14 12:58:45

Who?

ddubsgirl77 Sun 20-Apr-14 13:01:17

its fucking sick and I hope ch 5 tell to fuck off! shes the 1 that got a boob job on nhs cos she was 'depressed'!!

RoseberryTopping Sun 20-Apr-14 13:01:56

I think you can legally have one up until 19 weeks in this country, although most women would only choose to do it that late due to health problems - not to become famous!

It's awful but I think she'd probably be doing the poor thing a favour. I wouldn't want a mum like that.

LongTimeLurking Sun 20-Apr-14 13:02:37

This woman (warning daily mail link): www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2608716/Woman-4-800-boob-job-NHS-glamour-model-admits-abortion-star-Big-Brother.html

YANBU. NHS boob job to become a 'glamour model' (who is she kidding?) and now an abortion to become a BB contestant. I'm stunned that anyone could take the decision to have an abortion so lightly and for such an apparently trivial reason AND then boast about it in a national newspaper.

chav scum might be a description some would use.

sharonthewaspandthewineywall Sun 20-Apr-14 13:02:41

Just googled. Tbh if big brother would consider having this sket bag on their show what does that say about those that watch and support it? And how ironic that Nicola faketits McLean is condemning someone else

MrsSpencerReid Sun 20-Apr-14 13:03:38

I read about this with my mouth open, I am speechless, it's awful, both what she is doing and that she is making it all so public sad

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 13:03:53

Up to 23 weeks 6 days, not up to 19 weeks.

HazeltheMcWitch Sun 20-Apr-14 13:05:08

I think she'd say or do anything in her pursuit of 'fame'

Nennypops Sun 20-Apr-14 13:05:41

I just read the whole thing with a massive pinch of salt, given that on the one hand we have someone who is clearly in it for the publicity, and on the other hand we have the fact that it's a Mail report. I suspect any relationship between this story and the truth is purely incidental.

Pipbin Sun 20-Apr-14 13:07:22

I thought that you could have an abortion if two doctors agreed that to continue the pregnancy would be damaging to the emotional or physical health of either the baby or the mother.

I wouldn't know as I've never been pregnant.

It is disgusting but I think the child might have been spared a dreadful mother.

Weathergames Sun 20-Apr-14 13:08:14

She already has 2 DC hmm.

gordyslovesheep Sun 20-Apr-14 13:10:46

she's obviously a fucked up kid - shame on the fail for publicising this

and for the record she had breast implants because she had a condition that meant she had no breast tissue - IE no breasts at all

it was done for medical reasons

ChocolateCoveredMisery Sun 20-Apr-14 13:12:09

She is as vile at that awful pink shade of lipstick she wears.

Why anyone would give her the publicity she wants is beyond me. She offers nothing in the form of talent.

realitygone Sun 20-Apr-14 13:14:27

Yanbu

she is all that's wrong.

FreudiansSlipper Sun 20-Apr-14 13:16:15

so you have fallen into the dm trap of putting down a woman who is quite obviously in a desperate state if mind

did you miss the fact she is working as an escort, is desperate to change the way she looks by having plastic surgery, has no idea who the father is

something is very wrong when someone is humiliating and purposely damaging themselves for attention

CunningAtBothEnds Sun 20-Apr-14 13:19:48

i saw the story shared on fb through the mirror if anyone wants to read it im shite at links. a very sad state of affairs

Bifauxnen Sun 20-Apr-14 13:21:33

Well she's hardly the first to choose to abort because it will mess up her life plan. As long as it's within the legal timeframe then her choice is her choice, regardless of my personal opinion. I won't be hurrying to jump on the DM's spitewagon.

"She told the Sunday Mirror: 'An abortion will further my career. This time next year I won't have a baby. Instead I'll be famous, driving a bright pink Range Rover and buying a big house. Nothing will get in my way.'"
I cannot help but feel sorry for this woman. She needs help, and I don't mean surgery sad. Shame on the tabloids for this.

TeenageMutantNinjaTurtle Sun 20-Apr-14 13:26:07

I think there's more to this than meets the eye. She's said in an interview that her decision is based on a "breakdown in communication with Channel 5".

Which suggests to me that they tried to cancel her appearance after finding out she's pregnant... Which is pretty despicable...

So I'm hoping that she has no intention of going through with the abortion, but wants to put pressure on Channel 5 to have her on despite the baby.

We'll see I suppose. Either way the abortion would technically be illegal because although it's within the 24 wk time limit, abortions are only supposed to be conducted if the well being of mother or child is deemed to be at risk.

This story makes me very sad....

Wishfulmakeupping Sun 20-Apr-14 13:29:34

She's totally messed up sad hope ss are involved with her children they are going to need a lot of help with a mother acting out like this sad

janesnowdon1 Sun 20-Apr-14 13:35:37

After 16 weeks you have to give" birth" to the baby as a late abortion. The baby is injected in the womb and then you are induced to give "birth". This sort of late abortion is not available on demand but usually used for babies who have very severe problems that would nout survive after a full term birth and sometimes for cases of late presenting cases of abuse/rape etc.

I agree though that she needs help.

CunningAtBothEnds Sun 20-Apr-14 13:40:29

that was my question really, does her reasoning fall within the legal guidelines, im sure it probably doesnt but I suppose its no different to anyone else who has changed their mind.

Its very sad all round. sad

If a woman is forced to continue a pregnancy she does not want then of course her well being is at risk.

The rules are the same up to 24 weeks, janesnowdon1.

Coconutty Sun 20-Apr-14 13:48:46

Yuk, she really sounds totally fucked up.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 13:49:03

Technically, two doctors need to agree on the mother's Wellbeing being at risk.

The mother not wanting the child and FS's information about her may well mean this hurdle is passed.

"This sort of late abortion is not available on demand "

It's not available everywhere but within the legal definitions I think it is just as "available" as an earlier abortion ie no greater "test" to pass. IIRC, over 90% of abortions are pre 12 weeks.

I think many post-12 weeks are to teenagers who perhaps realise later.

If her DH had left her and she felt unable to continue a third pregnancy on that basis, what would your thoughts be?

Mercatel Sun 20-Apr-14 13:49:50

Oh dear. It does sound like some desperate, misguided attempt at becoming infamous.

Sallyingforth Sun 20-Apr-14 13:58:40

When I read posts on MN from the many women desperate for children and not getting pregnant, it makes me so angry that women like this can get carelessly pregnant and then carelessly aborting.

Her other children would be far better off with more deserving and more responsible mothers.

2blackcats2 Sun 20-Apr-14 14:01:14

Not everyone realises what a late abortion entails.

And what other women would like is beside the point - that's like the silly argument our mothers gave us when we were full up about some people being starving. A baby is not always a welcome addition to someone's life.

She is obviously not a well woman and I don't condone her actions but I have been in her shoes, though several weeks earlier thank god, and it isn't an easy decision.

ddubsgirl77 Sun 20-Apr-14 14:03:28

no not easy but to publicly post scan pics pose with bump and then get rid? put bby up for adoption if reallly not wanted and seek some mental health help

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 14:05:52

"put bby up for adoption if reallly not wanted and seek some mental health help"

IIRC, mental health outcomes for those carrying to term when they do not want to are worse than for those having an abortion, even if the child is subsequently adopted.

2blackcats2 Sun 20-Apr-14 14:08:19

Do people really think it's as simple as putting up a baby for adoption, then walking out of the door and simpering "I need some mental health support now, please."

I was severely irrational in early pregnancy: alone, very scared, vomiting almost constantly and paranoid.

I really feel for her. As I've said I don't condone her actions but having been in a similar situation myself, I imagine she isn't rational in the slightest, I know I wasn't. I hope she's got her mum or a sister to help her.

NeedsAsockamnesty Sun 20-Apr-14 14:08:21

This thread and the vast majority of comments on it are despicable.

Not one of you get to decide what a good reason to have an abortion is if someone else's body is involved.

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 14:11:36

If you are fine with other women having an abortion for whatever reason that a baby isnt right for them at this time then why is she any different? A baby isnt right for her at this time so she is choosing not to have one. Women do it everyday. I would question how 'fine' you are about the other women who do it if this is so appalling to you.

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 14:12:19

I agree needs

Dawndonnaagain Sun 20-Apr-14 14:13:00

No dental implants on the nhs.
She is very obviously not well, and we DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to comment on this.

2blackcats2 Sun 20-Apr-14 14:13:37

They aren't "fine" - we should all put the bby up for adoption and then seek mental health care hmm

Mercatel Sun 20-Apr-14 14:14:41

Sockamnesty. I'm staunchly pro choice. But the OP states that the person was choosing late abortion in order to appear on Big Brother and to further her career. That doesn't sit well with me, but perhaps I'm just odd...

EatShitDerek Sun 20-Apr-14 14:15:36

Don't feel sorry for her. I live nearby her and she is intact as real as the stories.

She will do anything for her 5 minutes of fame.

Mercatel Sun 20-Apr-14 14:15:45

Though I thought Big Brother had long disappeared off our screens! Alas

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 14:16:59

"Sockamnesty. I'm staunchly pro choice. But the OP states that the person was choosing late abortion in order to appear on Big Brother and to further her career. That doesn't sit well with me, but perhaps I'm just odd..."

Furthering career/protecting career prospects is a very common reason for abortion.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 14:17:02

"If you are fine with other women having an abortion for whatever reason that a baby isnt right for them at this time then why is she any different? "

^^ this.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 14:17:53

If I got pregnant now, career would certainly be one of the major factors in my decision to progress or not.

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 14:18:17

Same here doctrine

differentnameforthis Sun 20-Apr-14 14:18:40

There is another thread running about this & I have taken this from there as I agree wholeheartedly

Either we support a woman's right to autonomy over her own body and her own reproductive organs, or we don't. We don't get to pick and choose.

I support what ever choice she makes. Because I am lucky enough to love in a country that afforded me that choice too (although not as far advanced as she is) & I know only too well how devastated & scared I was.

This is a girl who has had a breast enlargement to become a glamour model. She also had those enlargements removed, iirc.

She is 23 & has had plastic surgery & doesn't really look very good.
She is considering a termination to be on TV, on a show that no one really cares about any more. She sounds immature & naive at best.

With her pink range rover talk & fame in a year, she sounds like a very dysfunctional Katie whatsherface (afka Jordan) wannabe.

She is lurching from one thing to another trying to find (approval?) something that has been missing her whole life.

Poor lass!

And yes, op, it is legal for her to terminate at this stage. Her reasons are not for us to judge!

LeftyLoony Sun 20-Apr-14 14:19:04

This individual is the real life embodiment of trolling. If the media didn't give it the oxygen if publicity it wouldn't exist in our consciousness. The media give it the oxygen of publicity because we talk about it.

FreudiansSlipper Sun 20-Apr-14 14:19:48

I am pro choice

But being pro choice is about the women making that decision no one is asking you to be comfortable with her reasoning for why she is making that choice but taking that away is far more harmful for our society

This is a woman who is not able to deal with her reality this is the issue here and what support is she getting well it seems many would rather drag her down further

ddubsgirl77 Sun 20-Apr-14 14:19:50

she clearly needs help to abort a baby at 19+ weeks so she can be famous is not normal! really! she needs help boasting she had dental work because its free while shes pregnant angry anybother person in this situation would have valid reasons or serious medical reasons not because its going to stop them from being on a fucking tv show!!! she wants to buy her kids nice toys etc yes fair enough but not shagging footballers etc and getting pregnant and then doing this to get money!

NeedsAsockamnesty Sun 20-Apr-14 14:20:07

It does not matter if you are comfortable with the choice she makes for her body

Mercatel Sun 20-Apr-14 14:20:27

Appearing (or attempting to appear) on Big Brother is a career, Sillybilly?

Corygal Sun 20-Apr-14 14:21:09

She's an inexpensive prostitute by day. She looks weird, and not in a good way. Just because someone is damaged doesn't mean they're good news for the rest of the planet.

Her poor children.

Mercatel Sun 20-Apr-14 14:21:47

But she probably ought to if that's what she wants and has decided.

CoffeeTea103 Sun 20-Apr-14 14:22:08

She's a total mess. She doesn't deserve a child with such screwed up morals. Most people don't tweet pictures of a baby they plan to terminate and then revel in the attention of it. Fake boobs, looking a mess, prostitute, yep a total waste of space.

2blackcats2 Sun 20-Apr-14 14:22:51

Well what would a valid reason be?

Being sick all the time?

Career advancement?

Relationship breakdown?

Health of the baby?

Finances?

If it is wrong, then it is wrong.

If it isn't, it isn't. It isn't "okay in some circumstances". No. Either it is acceptable or it is not.

I have some sympathy with the views of those that feel abortion this late is akin to murder but if that is the case, all late abortions are wrong, not some.

Cornettoninja Sun 20-Apr-14 14:23:05

I'm firmly in the pro choice camp - this doesn't sit well with me at all at a gut level.

However, it is still her choice to make and I can only hope that she has access to decent counselling as I'm not convinced people go from wanting their pregnancy (showing it off on social media etc.) to wanting to terminate without there being some massive other factors at play.

She's clearly not in a stable place if the reports are to be believed.

If she was a woman out if the media spotlight with two children to support already, who was offered a once in a lifetime career opportunity that would provide security for her existing family I think my own gut feeling would be a lot more inclined towards sympathy for the bad timing.

CunningAtBothEnds Sun 20-Apr-14 14:23:07

i would like to.reiterate that as you will see in my OP I am not judging her nor would I judge anyone for this type of choice. I was merely pondering the legal implication of the timeframe and the reasons given so publicly

ddubsgirl77 Sun 20-Apr-14 14:23:16

pro choice too and have had friends that have had to make the decision to abort and have stood by that none have ever been for the reason so they can be on a tv show!

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 14:24:26

"Appearing (or attempting to appear) on Big Brother is a career, Sillybilly?"

Umm sneer all you like- i'm currently job hunting. I will (hopefully) get a job that will pay minimum wage and involve stacking shelves. If i were to become pregnant my loss of income and damage to my progress up the ladder would be a huge consideration.

Or is it only women in charge of the bank of england who get to have abortions? hmm

2blackcats2 Sun 20-Apr-14 14:25:22

Look, imagine someone is taking the pill because they don't want a baby.

Their reasons for not wanting a baby don't matter. They are taking the pill because they don't want one.

Is taking the pill wrong? I doubt many people feel it is.

So either abortion is acceptable or it is not. When you say it is only acceptable in certain circumstances, you're saying you believe it's wrong, immoral. I respect that but I dislike other people deciding what should be important to others.

FreudiansSlipper Sun 20-Apr-14 14:29:28

but being pro choice it is irrelevant what the reasons are

it is that the choice is there

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 14:30:32

"none have ever been for the reason so they can be on a tv show!"

Any ever been for the impact on their earnings?

NeedsAsockamnesty Sun 20-Apr-14 14:31:38

So her choice is not valid because it involves a tv show,or because she's a sex worker or because she's previously had cosmetic surgery?

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 14:32:45

Because she's unlikelable, NeedsA.

Mercatel Sun 20-Apr-14 14:33:34

I'm probably being snobbish again <other thread, waves hand>

The article is horrible, though. Typical, benefit-bashing, Daily Mail fare. I'm not denying a person's right to have an abortion, absolutely not. I suppose I find this person and her reasons particularly repugnant. Though it's probably the best thing in her situation.

She sounds quite deluded about achieving fame and success on the back of a show like Big Brother.

NuggetofPurestGreen Sun 20-Apr-14 14:33:48

I was thinking the same as SillyBilly and sockamnesty when reading the other thread on this. You're either pro choice or you're not. Why is this abortion worse than others where people aren't in a good place to have a baby?

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 14:34:30

"Because she's unlikelable, NeedsA."

Yup. Thank goodness that's not an option choice for the doctors to refuse.

She's my age. She is pregnant with her third child and is a prostitute. The more I read about her the more fucked up it all becomes. Those poor kids.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 14:37:11

"Yup. Thank goodness that's not an option choice for the doctors to refuse"

Well, quite.

I don't understand the logic that looks at her life, deems it troubled/repugnant/beset with mental health issues - but then concludes her being made to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term is going to be the best option.

ddubsgirl77 Sun 20-Apr-14 14:37:29

no and im sorry she should have thought of this she also stated that no one wants glamour pics of a pregant woman then why get this far going on twitter etc posting pics she said she turned down the offer of support from the poss fathers yet is letting 1 pay for the abortion! this isnt like shes living on nothing she had support and offer of financial support

Odaat Sun 20-Apr-14 14:37:47

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Mercatel Sun 20-Apr-14 14:38:33

I said abortion would be the best option in this situation. So I hope you weren't quoting me, Doctrine (sorry if I'm wrong, I used the word 'repugnant' you see).

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 14:38:57

Bloody hell, Odaat. That's the nastiest post I've read for a long time.

Topaz25 Sun 20-Apr-14 14:39:02

Wanting an abortion to further her career is not technically one of the legal reasons but I'm sure a lot of people do it. She will get an abortion the same way she got an NHS boob job to boost her career, by claiming psychological trauma.

Odaat Sun 20-Apr-14 14:39:26

I have seen the paper. She is pouting on the front paper holding her bump proudly ... All the while knowing she will will be aborting ... It literally made me feel sick and teary.

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 14:39:44

"I don't understand the logic that looks at her life, deems it troubled/repugnant/beset with mental health issues - but then concludes her being made to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term is going to be the best option."

Exactly! Surely for someone this troubled it is far better that she doesnt bring a baby into the world.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 14:39:49

Not specifically, Mercatel!

Odaat Sun 20-Apr-14 14:40:20

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NeedsAsockamnesty Sun 20-Apr-14 14:40:23

Message withdrawn.

Mercatel Sun 20-Apr-14 14:41:10

" I'm not denying a person's right to have an abortion, absolutely not. I suppose I find this person and her reasons particularly repugnant. Though it's probably the best thing in her situation. "

Is that not specific enough for you, Doctrine hmm

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 14:41:28

Message withdrawn.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 14:41:58

Message withdrawn.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 14:42:29

Message withdrawn.

FreudiansSlipper Sun 20-Apr-14 14:43:41

I have reported Odaat vile post

Odaat Sun 20-Apr-14 14:43:45

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YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 14:44:05

"no and im sorry she should have thought of this she also stated that no one wants glamour pics of a pregant woman then why get this far going on twitter etc posting pics she said she turned down the offer of support from the poss fathers yet is letting 1 pay for the abortion! this isnt like shes living on nothing she had support and offer of financial support"

She doesnt want a baby. End of. Lots of women with support and money have abortions. Are you saying lack of money and support are the only valid reasons for abortion.

Mintyy Sun 20-Apr-14 14:44:14

Your post needs to be removed Odaat. Why not ask hq to do it on your behalf?

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 14:44:18

Ah, sorry Mercatel, I meant I wasn't specifically quoting you with the repugnant thing, many have made it clear that's what they find it without using the word, but I should have been clearer regarding your post.

youarewinning Sun 20-Apr-14 14:44:32

I am pro choice. And I have a cousin born at 23+5.

She is not making a choice I would (that is to peruse a career in the limelight!) but many woman have an abortion because the timing is not right - career/ financial wise.

What I don't respect is her decision to post pictures of her scan and then announce to the world she is having an abortion to go on BB.

basgetti Sun 20-Apr-14 14:45:04

Odaat. YOUR post made me feel sick and teary. This woman clearly has issues, and is just fodder for the DM to vilify. Sad that so many posters have joined in. And pro-choice is pro-choice. Not with conditions that you approve of.

Mrswellyboot Sun 20-Apr-14 14:45:14

Have never heard of her in my life

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 14:45:28

"What I don't respect is her decision to post pictures of her scan and then announce to the world she is having an abortion to go on BB."

Totally agree that this is a poor decision!

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 14:45:43

Odaat she may be vile- that doesnt mean you arent vile when you propose someone should 'get the shit kicked out of them'

Your post was vile. Whether she is or not.

NeedsAsockamnesty Sun 20-Apr-14 14:46:13

So what, she's made a decision and spoken to the media,still not exactly sure why that makes her a cunt and a animal

ddubsgirl77 Sun 20-Apr-14 14:46:15

im sure many do for career reasons but they dont post and announce to the world they are pregnant and boosting the daddy is a famous footballer etc and then say oh im getting rid angry

ddubsgirl77 Sun 20-Apr-14 14:47:03

boasting*

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 14:48:32

Ddubs- so the fact she was public about her pregnancy mean she shouldnt be able to have an abortion? confused

differentnameforthis Sun 20-Apr-14 14:49:34

Horrible post Odaat!

You may think she is vile, but I rather think you are the vile one suggesting what you did in your post, I wont repeat is, as hopefully it will pulled, so don't want to repeat your vile comments here.

Just urgh at your attitude!

Odaat Sun 20-Apr-14 14:49:57

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NeedsAsockamnesty Sun 20-Apr-14 14:50:11

She can show her scan picture to who ever she wants if that person is interested enough to see it.

She's chosen to abort why should that mean she shouldn't be open about being pregnant or aborting?

Why should it be secret or shameful if the person having the procedure is ok being open about it.

Or is it just because you find having a reminder of a ickle baby uncomfortable

Cornettoninja Sun 20-Apr-14 14:50:26

But to go from wanting a pregnancy to splashing her intention to terminate (complete with scan pictures) over the media doesn't suggest she's in a particularly healthy place mentally does it?

If she wants to go ahead then on the face of it she can. I'm concerned she's making decisions that will impact her mental health in the future and I think even as a pro-choicer we should recognise that social responsibility as well.

I completely 'get' the argument that the above just proves why she should terminate but I can't help thinking that kind of burden won't be good for her long term.

Idk, in reality I have no clue what her history is actually like. It's certainly making me question whether I truly believe in termination on demand though and what levels of interference there should be to ensure that a woman is helped as much as is possible to make the right choices for them.

Mercatel Sun 20-Apr-14 14:51:17

No problem, Doctrine.

I'm actually glad to have my idea of pro choice challenged. It's made me think.

Bit much there, Odaat.

NeedsAsockamnesty Sun 20-Apr-14 14:51:32

So is everybody who has a late abortion despicable then or just her because she's talking about it

differentnameforthis Sun 20-Apr-14 14:52:33

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sharonthewaspandthewineywall Sun 20-Apr-14 14:53:12

To an extent I agree with Oddaat but shows like big brother are equally to blame

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 14:53:51

The public eye is her chosen field of work, the newspapers her colleagues, her goal is to lead her life in the media spotlight and that's what she is doing.

Others choose to work in a hospital or post office or hair salon and you bet women in those fields have become pregnant, told their colleagues and customers/clients and then for whatever reason decided to have an abortion. I guarantee you that has happened.

This womans colleagues are the journos and rags and her customers are the public so more people get to know than if she worked in a bank.

CerealMom Sun 20-Apr-14 14:55:39

'Quality' article aside. I'd be worried about a prostitute not practising safe sex (belt and braces). Pregnancy could be the least of your worries...

<old gimmer - don't die in ignorance>

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 14:56:19

She can show her scan picture to who ever she wants if that person is interested enough to see it.

^She's chosen to abort why should that mean she shouldn't be open about being pregnant or aborting?

Why should it be secret or shameful if the person having the procedure is ok being open about it.

Or is it just because you find having a reminder of a ickle baby uncomfortable^

^^ this exactly.

Odaat Sun 20-Apr-14 14:58:26

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aermingers Sun 20-Apr-14 14:58:47

In all honesty, I think if you were an adult who had grown up with someone like that for a mother you would probably wish that you had been aborted.

Can you imagine the sort of shit life her children would need with her 'issues'? They'd probably end up being dragged through the care system, end up with their own mental health issues and be at a much higher risk of associated problems such as crime, jail, drug addiction.

Really, from my point of view if I was going to be given the choice in my next life of having a mother like this or being a late abortion I'd go for the abortion every time.

mercibucket Sun 20-Apr-14 15:01:01

i am pro choice

i am not prochoice up to 24 weeks

this story is just generally disturbing and thought provoking

i dont like the openness of her decision and the 'career' reason. what does this tell me? i secretly think there should be an attitude of shame, regret or sadness around abortion? it is my issue not hers

i dont like the publicity and also fear she might be being exploited. i often think this about celebrity hungry people tbh. i think this is more about my attitude to the media than her. perhaps i am patronising her as well?

but it does also make me think about our abortion limits. i am not comfortable with abortions at later stages.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 15:01:02

Odaat

Do you want the abortion limit to be reduced to below 18 weeks then?

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 15:01:15

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Horsemad Sun 20-Apr-14 15:02:49

What a trollope she is.

differentnameforthis Sun 20-Apr-14 15:03:26

also let her get the shit kicked out of her

Suggests violence. So yes, I would say that you condone it.

Horsemad Sun 20-Apr-14 15:03:54

Obviously I meant the 'sleb' in question.

NachoAddict Sun 20-Apr-14 15:05:14

I am pro choice and think that not having this baby is for the best.

What I am judging is her choice to milk a very difficult and sensitive situation and try to achieve fane and fortune from it.

She has publicly celebrated the pregnancy, fair enough, to then go and announce she will be aborting at this late stage because she wants to go on tv has been done to generate more publicity. If not then why wouldn't she just get on with it. Why go to the tabloids and tell everyone all about it if not to create a media storm.

basgetti Sun 20-Apr-14 15:06:19

So if someone has an abortion for reasons others don't approve of they are a cunt, an animal, a trollop and deserve to get the shit kicked out of them? And she is the vile one? Really?

NeedsAsockamnesty Sun 20-Apr-14 15:07:18

Why shouldn't she be open about it if that's what she wants to do

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 15:07:44

Apparently so basgetti

ddubsgirl77 Sun 20-Apr-14 15:11:09

upto 24 weeks tho is normally only for major medical reasons tho not just cos some z lister wants to be more famous if she doesnt want the child why not abort much earlier? why not just say she had miscarried? she knows she is going to be hated why would the hell anyone want that? why would anyone want thier kids brought up like that?

gordyslovesheep Sun 20-Apr-14 15:11:12

'vile' people are no less worthy of compassion and understanding

she is obviously unwell

I refuse to sit in judgement on somebody as fucked up and fucked over as she appears

and if she wants a termination she should have one - her choice and one I would support 100%

Horsemad Sun 20-Apr-14 15:12:42

I am pro choice and she is not the first to have an abortion because it doesn't fit in with her life plans. But, I don't know of any women who have publically declared their reasons in the media.

She's just an attention seeking lowlife imo. Vile excuse of a woman.

NeedsAsockamnesty Sun 20-Apr-14 15:13:01

I'm pro choice, it's none of my business why she wants a abortion or if she should or shouldn't.

NachoAddict Sun 20-Apr-14 15:13:35

mercibucket I agree completely with your post, you have wrote exactly what I was thinking but couldn't articulate.

I think although pro choice I also think abortion should be something not taken lightly, surely if your not using contraception then you are happy to get pregnant. If you are using contraception that fails and want go abort or any other unplanned situation then surely you would access an abortion before you get to 18 weeks.

aermingers Sun 20-Apr-14 15:14:16

NachoAddict you said that really well. I agree having this baby would not be for the best and it would probably suffer greatly with her for a mother. She seems incapable and I can see her landing in deep/possibly criminal trouble because of lack of parenting skills. She doesn't appear to have the capacity to care for a baby.

But despite the fact that an abortion is probably the best for all concerned, making money out of it, using it for self promotion, using it to deliberatly shock and gloating about it - that's pretty damn sickening.

Dawndonnaagain Sun 20-Apr-14 15:14:34

Odaat I don't give a flying fuck how bored you are with liberal viewpoints. These liberal viewpoints are the same ones that allow you to do the things this woman is doing. Unfortunately, asshats such as you do not allow for rehabilitation, help, understanding. It's fairly obvious the woman concerned is a) not terribly bright, b) has had little opportunity to learn the skills she needs, and c) is probably not very well.
My personal opinion is that I think it's unlikely she'll abort, but I feel desperately sorry for her. I have no idea why it was acceptable for my middle class woman in a middle class career to have an abortion to enable her to further her career, and not this. I guess because the middle class woman doesn't go to the press with it, but it's no different. Absolutely no different.

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 15:15:20

Exactly gordy

Dubs maybe she didnt decide earlier she didnt want it. Maybe she only realised last week how much it would affect her career. Maybe she actually was very excited about the baby until someone had a word in her ear about whether it was the right thing for her. It doesnt matter if she's a z lister or kate middleton- if the facility is there up to 24 weeks then she can use it.

NeedsAsockamnesty Sun 20-Apr-14 15:15:34

16-24 week abortions are quite unusual but they are legally no different to one at 8 weeks.

WilsonFrickett Sun 20-Apr-14 15:17:28

It's a difficult story to read and has made me think about my own views. But I haven't changed them - autonomy means autonomy, not a little bit of autonomy, or autonomy as long as I agree with your reasons. It's her body, it's her choice and as a pp said, are we saying only women who run the bank of England are entitled to have abortions for career reasons?

That said, she seems to have a very chaotic life and I think maybe if the circumstances were different she'd make a different choice maybe. But it is her choice to make.

gordyslovesheep Sun 20-Apr-14 15:17:48

watching her interviewed I stand by my post

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/video-josie-cunningham-plans-abortion-3434350

she seems quiet lost

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 15:18:07

Could someone provide an exact list of who is and who isnt 'worthy' of an abortion please? I'm getting a bit confused. Z listers = no, what about r listers? Glamour models = no. What about ASOS underwear models?

OrganicG Sun 20-Apr-14 15:19:36

Is that article (and others like it) really going to help her in her career? Though you never know nowadays... Doesn't she realise she's been exploited by the Daily Mail? They've set her up as some sort of hate figure.

I find her horrible, but she's vulnerable too and should have the abortion she wants. I doubt she'll be refused

scallopsrgreat Sun 20-Apr-14 15:20:22

You're not pro-choice Odaat. HTH.

As someone mentioned up thread all the vitriol against this woman is exactly the DM and it's anti-woman agenda want. Clearly from this article women just cannot be trusted with their own bodily autonomy (let alone other important decisions).

The fact that it is blindingly obvious there are other issues going that this vulnerable woman is having to contend with is exactly what the DM want to deflect you from. It doesn't suit their agenda to make this woman likeable.

Men opt out of fatherhood for much less reasons. I'll wait with baited breath for the DM article on that.

differentnameforthis Sun 20-Apr-14 15:20:52

If you are using contraception that fails and want go abort or any other unplanned situation then surely you would access an abortion before you get to 18 weeks.

And the majority of women in that situation do. Believe me, if you are carrying an unwanted pregnancy, you want it out of you pretty damn quickly!!

NeedsAsockamnesty Sun 20-Apr-14 15:21:07

Do you know her then organic?

Topaz25 Sun 20-Apr-14 15:21:27

Why shouldn't she be open about it if that's what she wants to do

Because it's insensitive to people who are struggling with infertility or people who agonised over the decision to have an abortion and didn't just see it as a publicity move. Also because now it's out there on the internet it will never go away and her kids will be able to read it one day and realise they could have had a sibling but she wanted to go on celebrity BB, which will be distressing for them.

NeedsAsockamnesty Sun 20-Apr-14 15:23:06

Don't be so dramatic.

Aeroflotgirl Sun 20-Apr-14 15:23:15

She is awful, why the NHS gave her the boob job is disgusting, when there are sick people and children being denied treatment on the NHS.

OrganicG Sun 20-Apr-14 15:23:20

Explain, Sockam?

basgetti Sun 20-Apr-14 15:24:18

She was given a boob job because she has a condition that means she has no breast tissue.

Aeroflotgirl Sun 20-Apr-14 15:24:33

Yes she Can do what she wants, but don't boast and be proud of it!

Topaz25 Sun 20-Apr-14 15:24:53

How is that dramatic? Don't you think her kids would be confused or distressed to see the pictures of her with a bump and the sonogram and read her saying she wanted an abortion to go on TV?

Dawndonnaagain Sun 20-Apr-14 15:25:03

Topaz
Bollocks. My Mum had an abortion between my brother and my sister. Don't blame her one bit, she would have had four under four if she'd had it.
And that's from someone who hasn't spoken to said mother for years, for different reasons.

OrganicG Sun 20-Apr-14 15:25:17

And the breast implants story doesn't have anything to do with this. It's just fodder from the DM.

differentnameforthis Sun 20-Apr-14 15:25:23

Because it's insensitive to people who are struggling with infertility or people who agonised over the decision to have an abortion

No it isn't. She isn't responsible for anyone's feelings, whether they be pregnant, infertile or recently miscarried. She is allowed to do what she wants & shouldn't be held accountable for anyone else's feelings.

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 15:25:28

Really topaz? Ive taken the morning after pill 3 times in my life- i have no qualms whatsoever telling my dcs when they are a bit older that i tool it to prevent pregnancy. Do you really think they will be upset they didnt get those 3 (possible) siblings so we could carry on in our lives as they were?

Aeroflotgirl Sun 20-Apr-14 15:25:50

No apparently she was depressed, that's why she got a boob job.

needaholidaynow Sun 20-Apr-14 15:25:54

No sympathy for her.

tracypenisbeaker Sun 20-Apr-14 15:26:14

It is not the fact that she is having an abortion that makes her a cunt, it is her disgusting attitude in general. I'm sitting here with a sleeping baby on my lap and reading someone say that they would terminate so they could have a pink Jeep makes my skin crawl. There is a difference between saying 'It is not the right time for me, I have ambition and want my existing children to have a better life' and 'I would trade my baby's life for five minutes of fame and possessions.' She has no tact. She cannot act like the DM is spinning lies as she keeps going to them to sell her stories like the horrible little shockmonger she is.

Yes, she has the choice to do what she wants with her body, but I also have the right to say my opinion, especially as she CHOOSES to be in thepublic domain.

basgetti Sun 20-Apr-14 15:26:38

Yes she was depressed because she has no breast tissue.

Aeroflotgirl Sun 20-Apr-14 15:28:00

I agree Tracey, she has a choice not to go to tge media in the xfirst place. She wants publicity.

Aeroflotgirl Sun 20-Apr-14 15:29:03

What basgetti she has a flat chest like many other women!

Topaz25 Sun 20-Apr-14 15:29:09

YoureBeingASillyBilly That's not what I said. I think if you had waited till a late stage and they saw the bump and pictures of the sonogram and an interview saying you aborted the baby to go on TV then they could be upset and confused. That is not the same as taking the morning after pill or having an abortion for other reasons. The publicity around this could be distressing to her children, that's all I'm saying.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit Sun 20-Apr-14 15:29:23

She doesn't need to be ashamed of it either. What happens in her uterus has zeroing impact on someone else's fertility.

This is a woman who seems to have serious emotional problems, zero esteem or is being takene advantage of by the tabloids. She seems pretty damn messed up by all accounts. She turned to prostitution and has two other children to provide for. How is an abortion possibly the wrong choice for her?

Dawndonnaagain Sun 20-Apr-14 15:30:25

But she probably doesn't comprehend the choice, she probably doesn't perceive things in the way that others do. The fact is, that like a lot of other women, she is entitled to an abortion without judgement.

Aeroflotgirl Sun 20-Apr-14 15:30:34

I agree Topaz just because someone else reacts one way does not mean every one in that situation will feel the same. She is a piss poor role model to her children.

differentnameforthis Sun 20-Apr-14 15:31:35

It is not the fact that she is having an abortion that makes her a cunt, it is her disgusting attitude in general. I'm sitting here with a sleeping baby on my lap ...

And I am sitting here with a cleft lip & that didn't make me want to call the woman who aborted her baby for having the same, a cunt or vile. It didn't make me want to wish she was kicked & beaten up.

Get over your self.

She is terminating HER pregnancy, not asking you to kill your baby!!!

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 15:32:15

"The publicity around this could be distressing to her children, that's all I'm saying."

That's just guesswork though. They may be completely oblivious to the publicity (how old are they?) also, they will more than likely be around people who share her opinion on it and that opinion will be adopted by them, at least as children, as the norm.

Cornettoninja Sun 20-Apr-14 15:32:18

How is an abortion possibly the wrong choice for her

I'm not entirely convinced it's the right choice either.

Purely gleaned from the article, she was excited and buying baby clothes till she started getting cold shouldered by the production company. She's then made the decision based on a possible chance to still appear

Cornettoninja Sun 20-Apr-14 15:33:07

Posted too soon! Sorry!

But the TV offer is only a possibility not a definite.

So for four m

Beckamaw Sun 20-Apr-14 15:33:38

This story sounds like a massive pile of bollocks, TBH.
She's either deranged, or it's considerably exaggerated. She was going to pay back the NHS boob job money, but instead spent 1K on baby clothes, while arranging to terminate the pregnancy? blush

Topaz25 Sun 20-Apr-14 15:33:39

Now it's online it will be around forever, so they will see it when they're older and search their mum's name.

tracypenisbeaker Sun 20-Apr-14 15:35:14

I never condoned violence, fyi.

gordyslovesheep Sun 20-Apr-14 15:35:22

Aeroflotgirl she wasn't 'flat chested' she has a congenital condition that means she has NO BREAST TISSUE - not small/flat breasts NO BREASTS

she was given a breast operation for MEDICAL reasons

had she not been the money would not have been given to sick children hmm

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 15:36:40

Cornetto

I think it would be fair to suggest she talks to a counsellor before making a final decision, given the change of heart, but again (and I'm not saying you were saying this), if another woman changed her mind about a pregnancy because, say, the family were suddenly being posted overseas or because she was at risk of redundancy or a job came up that she wanted to do, I think there would be far less censure.

Cornettoninja Sun 20-Apr-14 15:36:43

Damnit!

For four months this baby was apparently very much wanted and now it isn't.

I can't help but think that this isn't a decision she's actually thought through, and think that 'termination for any reason' would be failing her really badly. Questions should be asked so she doesn't add this to her list of things she wished she'd never done.

There's nothing to suggest her existing children aren't been bought up well and with family support, and till recently was the plan for this one.

Topaz25 Sun 20-Apr-14 15:36:44

No one would have judged her for having a medical boob job if she hadn't then run to the newspapers and boasted about how she only did it so she could be a glamour model.

basgetti Sun 20-Apr-14 15:37:16

Other famous people have also documented their terminations and I've never seen the vitriol shown here. Or people worried about how their existing children might feel about it.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 15:37:58

Yy - Caitlin Moran, for one.

Aeroflotgirl Sun 20-Apr-14 15:38:30

Exactly topaz, tge way she has conducted herself has been awful. The fact she has courted publicity, time and time again, boasts about herself.

tracypenisbeaker Sun 20-Apr-14 15:38:34

And I never said she wanted me to kill my baby. I just can't stand the blase way she spoke about getting rid of her child/ foetus/ whatever your view is. She has no respect for her unborn child.

Topaz25 Sun 20-Apr-14 15:38:44

Other famous people have also documented their terminations and I've never seen the vitriol shown here. Or people worried about how their existing children might feel about it.

I haven't seen that. Particularly at such a late stage. But I might have missed it. I do worry about the effect that putting all this private stuff in the public eye has on their children.

Cornettoninja Sun 20-Apr-14 15:40:12

I agree Doctrine, I am questioning what my reaction would be in less sensational circumstances.

Aeroflotgirl Sun 20-Apr-14 15:40:12

No it's her perogative to have a termination, but tge way she has conducted herself. I don't think she has thought it through or is doing it for the right reasons. I do agree with one thing, she needs counselling ASAP.

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 15:41:07

"Now it's online it will be around forever, so they will see it when they're older and search their mum's name."

And? They're being raised by her- they'll more than likely share her viewpoint on it.

This is a crap example i know but i didnt get my dcs anything for easter this year, my mum has told me they'll be gutted. I was a bit worried but explained my reasoning to them, i.e; your dad, grandparents, great grandparents and aunties will all get you eggs, i'll take us all out on a trip somewhere nice instead. They understood completely and agreed that was sensible. This woman will, if necessary, explain her reasoning to her dcs and they'll more than likely get it as they have been raised by her and share her views.

Aeroflotgirl Sun 20-Apr-14 15:41:41

Exactly Tracy, it's like she is getting rid of some old clothes not her unborn child, yes have an abortion, but have some respect fir yourself and the child you are terminating!

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 15:42:59

"She has no respect for her unborn child."

Why would she have to? confused it's unborn. It has no concept or expectation of respect. It cant be disappointed that someone doesnt respect it.

differentnameforthis Sun 20-Apr-14 15:43:02

The thing is though, is that she is no different to any other woman/girl with hideously low self esteem, who is also very naive, under the spell of a third party & in this case, fame hungry!

She really thinks she will be famous
She really thinks BB will take her (not just a pie in the sky chance, but she really thinks it will happen)
She really thinks that will make her career

Just to achieve all that, she thinks she needs to abort her child. She believes that she will get on BB if she does that. Is it not partly the responsibility of the producer of bb to be upfront with her?
To tell her that there is no definite chance she will get on? Tell her that there is no definite chance that it will launch this career she so desperately wants.
To tell her that if she doesn't get on & has a termination, that she will be vilified & hated? Because she doesn't see this.

Infact, I would put it out there that she is NOT a great candidate for BB anyway, I think either way it will destroy her.

Essentially she is no different to the woman living with an abuser.

She really thinks aborting her child will make him stay
She really thinks aborting a child will change her life
She really thinks that she just needs to do this to make it all better.

Both of those women have people promising them the earth if only 'baby wasn't in the way'

Ok, so the producers at BB haven't said it, but it is heavily iplied in the way they stopped contact as soon as they saw she was expecting.

Only difference is, none of you would call the second woman a cunt, or vile, or wish violence upon her.

Topaz25 Sun 20-Apr-14 15:43:33

I hope she does get counseling. She seems deluded. This is not going to lead to the career she wants. I doubt she will get on celebrity BB now and if she did then she would get voted off immediately amid this negative publicity. Going on BB doesn't tend to lead to long term career success anyway. If she is basing a big decision on this she really needs to think it through.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 15:44:50

"I had an abortion because I saw that as the best chance to become famous and get the family some extra cash and give you two more."

That's one way she might put it.

differentnameforthis Sun 20-Apr-14 15:47:33

tracypenisbeaker - It is not the fact that she is having an abortion that makes her a cunt, it is her disgusting attitude in general ... I just can't stand the blase way she spoke about getting rid of her child/ foetus/ whatever your view is. She has no respect for her unborn child.

I'll consider myself a cunt then, shall I? Because I spoke about my unwanted pregnancy/resulting termination with blasé attitude on here in the past. best thing I ever did, to be honest.

NeedsAsockamnesty Sun 20-Apr-14 15:49:39

Why should she have any respect for the contents of her uterus if she's decided to abort

tracypenisbeaker Sun 20-Apr-14 15:50:18

SillyBilly, so by your logic a person in a vegetive state, for example, can be disrespected because they don't know what's going on? It is not normally human nature to talk about an embryo/ foetus/ baby as if it is something on the bottom of your shoe.

differentnameforthis Sun 20-Apr-14 15:51:57

Respect for her unborn baby?

My unwanted pregnancy was a parasite. Something I had to get out of me in order to ensure I could my life the way I needed to.

That wasn't through fame, admittedly, but the reason I terminated isn't actually that different to her... (to seek the life we had planned before it happened)

Aeroflotgirl Sun 20-Apr-14 15:51:59

Yes she should, it is a baby after all, whatever you think, and at that stage has a heartbeat. I am not saying she shouldn't it's not my place, but yes have some respect your herself and tge life she is carrying!

differentnameforthis Sun 20-Apr-14 15:52:25

in order to ensure I could continue to live my life the way I needed to.

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 15:52:56

A person in a vegetative state is a human being in their own right and gets the respect of a human being. Being born gives you that right. An unborn baby does not have that right.

OrganicG Sun 20-Apr-14 15:52:59

You asked if I knew the woman in the article, Sockamnesty. Can you please explain what you meant or are you just posting soundbites?

differentnameforthis Sun 20-Apr-14 15:53:23

It is not normally human nature to talk about an embryo/ foetus/ baby as if it is something on the bottom of your shoe.

Not when it is wanted, you are right. But when it isn't wanted, is seen as being in the way of life, it is VERY different.

Aeroflotgirl Sun 20-Apr-14 15:53:36

But different, would you go to tge media about it, would you conduct yourself in the way she has. No probably not!

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 15:53:55

Eh?

So it's ok to have an abortion as long as you speak nicely about it?

tracypenisbeaker Sun 20-Apr-14 15:54:02

Calling a foetus 'contents of the uterus' is disrespectful to people who have had miscarriages. You may feel that way, but women do form a bond with their unborn babies.

Aeroflotgirl Sun 20-Apr-14 15:55:07

She did want it, she had the scan and started buying baby clothes, but wanted to trade it for publicity and of course a pink Range, how horrid, sorry it is!

Aeroflotgirl Sun 20-Apr-14 15:56:12

In so agree with Tracey and Topazalways hits the nail on the head.

gordyslovesheep Sun 20-Apr-14 15:56:33

well I have had 5 miscarriages and I don't find it disrespectful - pleased don't speak for me

NeedsAsockamnesty Sun 20-Apr-14 15:56:49

You asked if I knew the woman in the article, Sockamnesty. Can you please explain what you meant or are you just posting soundbites

You said something along the lines of "I find her horrible" so I asked if you knew her

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 15:56:54

Tracypenisbeaker you are projecting. you might form a bond with an unborn baby. Many many women dont.

Until a baby is born it is indeed the contents of a WOMAN'S (and nobody elses) uterus.

differentnameforthis Sun 20-Apr-14 15:56:55

Aeroflotgirl Well I am on social media (here) talking about it. There is a wide audience here, of all ages. So yes, I guess I have 'gone to the media' with it.

I wouldn't conduct myself in the way she has, no, because I don't have screamingly low self esteem. Because I don't need to be famous to validate myself. I don't everyone's approval to be able to live my life.

But I also don't think she should be vilified because she lives her life differently to me.

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 15:58:27

In fact i do believe i bellowed several times during childbirth for the midwife to "get this thing OUT of me". No eyebrows were raised which led me to believe that wasnt a shocking thing to say. I'll ask my mum- she's a midwife.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 15:58:28

"Calling a foetus 'contents of the uterus' is disrespectful to people who have had miscarriages. You may feel that way, but women do form a bond with their unborn babies."

Sure. So women who have formed that bond wouldn't use that language. No one is making them.

tracypenisbeaker Sun 20-Apr-14 15:58:33

Doctrine, I wish people like Josie didn't put herself in that position to begin with. I don't tend to agree with abortion (disregarding exceptional circumstances.) I know unwanted pregnancies do happen, but to have unprotected sex when you don't want a baby is stupid.

NeedsAsockamnesty Sun 20-Apr-14 15:58:50

I've had several miscarriages and I don't consider it disrespectful so don't speak for me either

OrganicG Sun 20-Apr-14 15:59:22

Don't be so bloody ridiculous, Sockamnesty. And don't partially quote me out of context.

You do seem to be enjoying yourself on this thread rather, so sorry to have interrupted you.

basgetti Sun 20-Apr-14 16:00:09

I don't think it's disrespectful either. I had a very recent miscarriage and am in the early and anxious stages of a new pregnancy, yet am insightful enough to understand that other women may have different feelings about their pregnancies, and ways of viewing them.

Aeroflotgirl Sun 20-Apr-14 16:00:55

Different she has made choices now she has to take responsibility for them. Yes she will be vilified, that is part and parcel with going to the media with what she has. I wish her no harm, but she is awful! I hope someone who loves and cares for her gives her a good slap with a wet fish, and tells her what she is doing.

itsbetterthanabox Sun 20-Apr-14 16:02:22

We don't have on demand abortions in this country. Although I think we should. You have to convince 2 doctors that you need an abortion for reasons they deem worthy. So I'm sure she will tell the doctors it is for a different reason.
I think if she wants to have an abortion she should and it's no ones business why. Her body, her choice.

differentnameforthis Sun 20-Apr-14 16:03:30

tracey, I formed a very really, very string bond to my first 2 babies. They are beautiful girls who light up my life & as soon as I knew I was carrying them, I was excited & couldn't wait to parent them.

That is far far removed from my experience of my unwanted pregnancy.

My saying that I didn't/couldn't form a bond with my unwanted pregnancy is disrespectful to no one & to ne honest I am sick of that being touted on here as a way to beat down woman who have made a choice that doesn't sit right with some. My friend is unable to get pregnant, she doesn't see my termination as disrespectful at all.

The world doesn't work like that, I can't & won't regret my choice because there are women suffering pregnancy loss/infertility. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing but sympathy for them, but it cannot change my course in MY life & their losses should not mean that I have to continue with an unwanted pregnancy.

Do we berate men who successfully impregnate women because there are some men who can't? Would we tell a man that he has no right to be sterilized when some men are unable to get their wives pregnant?

No, we bloody don't!!

tracypenisbeaker Sun 20-Apr-14 16:03:50

If I was pregnant through no fault of my own, then I still wouldn't refer to a baby as the 'contents of my uterus.' I just don't have it in me.

I appreciate other people have different perceptions though, disregarding whether or not I agree with what they say. They have that choice to voice their opinion, as do I.

NeedsAsockamnesty Sun 20-Apr-14 16:04:36

Interesting,

It's ridiculous to expect someone to know someone if they have such strong feelings about perfectly legal actions

But not to get all excited about a total stranger having a abortion and think that means something about how pleasant or nice they are or aren't.

tracypenisbeaker Sun 20-Apr-14 16:07:19

I didn't mean to come across that I was speaking for all women who had miscarriages. That would be impossible.

OrganicG Sun 20-Apr-14 16:08:05

" It's ridiculous to expect someone to know someone if they have such strong feelings about perfectly legal actions"

Yes it is ridiculous. And it makes no sense at all, sockamnesty. Why would that mean they know them personally?

Back to the drawing board for you I think...

differentnameforthis Sun 20-Apr-14 16:08:50

tracypenisbeaker I know unwanted pregnancies do happen, but to have unprotected sex when you don't want a baby is stupid

Oh for fucking hells sake!! I think you need to read up on contraception & it's reliability!

But just in case CONTRACEPTION FAILS.

I was on the mini pill when I had my unwanted pregnancy. I was also using a condom, such was my need to not get pregnant.

The dr SAID that the pill obv didn't work for me (I was religious about taking it) and the condom must have tore.

So there....not too stupid, but if it makes you feel better to think that women only get pregnant when they fail to use contraception, so be it. Can't have you thinking it might happen to anyone, can we!!

differentnameforthis Sun 20-Apr-14 16:09:51

I wish her no harm, but she is awful! I hope someone who loves and cares for her Do you honestly think she would be in this position if she truly had someone who loved & cared for her?

2blackcats2 Sun 20-Apr-14 16:09:59

Mine was a planned pregnancy, a planned baby. I was initially euphoric.

Then things changed.

differentnameforthis Sun 20-Apr-14 16:12:56

I just don't have it in me. Yet.

And I hope that you never have to know what it is like, to be able to only refer to what is inside you as a parasite. I didn't think I had it in me, either.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 16:13:51

Tracy, if you are against abortion in most circumstances, it's not surprising that you are against this one as well.

tracypenisbeaker Sun 20-Apr-14 16:14:14

Differentname Come on, I meant unprotected sex as in willingly having sex without contraception, not being the 0.01% whos implant has failed. I know the difference.

differentnameforthis Sun 20-Apr-14 16:14:41

opps, shouty said shouldn't be shouty.

I should also point out that I was EBF when I fell pregnant, hence the reason for the mini pill.

Ubik1 Sun 20-Apr-14 16:17:06

Of course she should be allowed to do it...but it's soooo depressing isn't it.

differentnameforthis Sun 20-Apr-14 16:17:16

I meant unprotected sex as in willingly having sex without contraception, not being the 0.01% whos implant has failed ... I know the difference. So say that, then, because that isn't what you said in your post.

Don't leave your post wide open to interpretation & it won't get taken the wrong way!

ddubsgirl77 Sun 20-Apr-14 16:17:35

she also said shes had 5 miscarriages so is either really shit at using protection or did want a baby as stated she knoes now she can carry a baby past 12 weeks hmm

LeftyLoony Sun 20-Apr-14 16:19:47

She has every right to do it if that is what she wants to do.
It's the stroking bump pictures accompanying incredibly insensitive sound bites from a known attention seeker that make her troll-ish in my eyes.

It's this behaviour I hope ends her 'career', not what she chooses to do. Or not.

tracypenisbeaker Sun 20-Apr-14 16:19:48

It's strange, Doctrine, I am pro-choice in a way, I believe that everyone should have a choice because there is no cookie-cutter perfect circumstance, however I just wish there was no need for them and I wish people would be more responsible. If some people, such as Miss Cunningham (by her own admission) were less ignorant more savvy then the abortion rate would be much lower. There is no way that the majority of abortions are as a result of rape, failed pill etc. Prevention is better than 'cure.'

tracypenisbeaker Sun 20-Apr-14 16:22:29

What? To me, unprotected sex means, er, not using contraception? Even if it fails, you were still protected to an extent. You can protect yourself with a shield and still get stabbed.

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 16:24:18

Umm- abortion doesnt exist as a 'cure' to the consequences of rape or failed contraceptives. Abortion exists to end pregnancies for women who wish to end them. Reason for the pregnancy should have no bearing at all on whether the woman is entitled to end it. Her wish to end should be the necessary requirement.

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 16:25:29

only necessary requirement- is what that should say.

differentnameforthis Sun 20-Apr-14 16:32:55

To me, unprotected sex means, er, not using contraception? yes, and you made it sound like unwanted pregnancies are only ever the result of unprotected sex.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 16:34:09

Sure, Tracy, but I think most people having abortions probably would prefer that they'd "prevented" rather than "cured" as well, because it's less invasive. But abortion always seems better to me than the alternative of forcing a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term, no matter what the reason for the pregnancy.

The fact that she'd had five miscarriages isn't that surprising because she did want to continue this pregnancy until very recently.

tracypenisbeaker Sun 20-Apr-14 16:34:25

'Prevention is better than cure' is a figure of speech. I put quotations around the word 'cure' as I didn't feel like it was the most appropriate word. I also wasn't talking about rape or failed contraception, I was talking about people havimg abortions after having COMPLETELY unprotected sex. Prevention is better than 'cure,' i.e take your family planning seriously. Don't throw examples of crazy instances where high reliability contraception has failed at me. It is irrelevant as the article is about Josie Cunningham, who in my opinion, was a dumbass having unprotected sex with her client and male friend. It could have easily been avoided.

tracypenisbeaker Sun 20-Apr-14 16:37:25

Differentname you would have to be stupid to think that people only get pregnant through unprotected sex? Everyone knows that there is no perfect form of contraception. The only truly reliable method of course is to abstain.

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 20-Apr-14 16:37:53

Tracy she wanted to be pregnant.

NeedsAsockamnesty Sun 20-Apr-14 16:38:53

But it was not.therefore the only option she has it to resolve it how she chooses.

Pro choice means just that

differentnameforthis Sun 20-Apr-14 16:42:57

I know unwanted pregnancies do happen, but to have unprotected sex when you don't want a baby is stupid.

I took this generally, not just to mean for the case we are discussing. To me, it does sound like you are saying that all unwanted pregnancies are the result of not using contraception.

Beside, in Josie's case, she DID want the baby. She has talked of buying baby clothes etc. So no, she wasn't 'bloody stupid' really.

It is only now, when she thinks those who are more powerful than her can deny her what she really wants (fame), are ready to pull the plug on her, that her decision has changed.

She isn't making that choice [termination] because she can't be arsed anymore, or because she realises she may have been careless, she is doing it because she thinks fame awaits her. Because she is too naive to see that isn't so.

She shouldn't be vilified for that, because she is not thinking straight.

differentnameforthis Sun 20-Apr-14 16:44:42

tracypenisbeaker

yet you were the one who alluded to it, not me!

Cornettoninja Sun 20-Apr-14 17:31:48

I do think C5 now have a responsibility to lay it out to her (not publicly) whether or not they're prepared to reconsider their offer.

The rights and wrongs of termination aside I can't see many people touching her with a barge pole now. She's massively underestimated how society in general perceives abortion and the emotions it envokes.

She'll be stringed along for a couple more articles like the ones today - I've no doubt the reporter was beyond supportive to her face - and used to get the masses frothing. She'll be left to cope with the villainised public perception of her and honestly I think this young women will buckle badly. The strongest of us would, never mind someone who quite clearly doesn't make particularly well thought out choices.

needaholidaynow Sun 20-Apr-14 17:36:56

Some of the comments on this thread are vile.

That is all.

aermingers Sun 20-Apr-14 17:58:26

Abortion is there for a good reason. We have the right to have control over whether or not we reproduce.

I had an abortion at 19 and I will never regret it, it was the right decision. I was incapable of looking after a child after a very difficult childhood of my own, but I would not have been able to mentally cope with adoption. I would have tried to keep the baby, failed and and it would probably have gone into care and had the resulting difficult life. I know I did the right thing for both of us. I know have a family at a better point in my life where I am able to cope and have a lot of support.

But I still think contraception is the best option. I still think that abortion should be done as early as possible. And I think it is not something that should be done lightly or without deep consideration.

It is possible to be pro-choice without thinking that it is something that should be treated as of as little consequence as taking a shit as this girl appears to.

Everyone has there own views on abortion
Everyone has there own views on prostitution

But what is plain to me is she's a very average looking, talentless wannabe who will happily put herself on the tabloids spreadsheets (and note the story ran this weekend when maybe more people would sit down to read the Sunday Papers).

She has an NHS breast enlargement - then goes to the Press to gloat
She has illusions of doing Glamour Modelling (buy a mirror love)
She decides they are too big, and wants an NHS operation to reduce them, back to the tabloids to tell us all
She wants to pay the NHS back, so gets a job.....as an Escort
She gets pregnant and. oh, we all need to know.
We see the scans. She spends money on baby clothes.

I DON't see how she is vunerable or in any way "ill"

She's a conniving schemer who wants to keep herself in the Public Eye.

I don't think she will terminate TBH.
The footballer and the surgeon (client) apparently want to give her maintenence.
But only one is the dad?
Obviously she hasn't taken their viewpoint on board either.

I do feel very sorry for her sons though. I bet her 7 yo will be looking forward to going back to school on Tuesday, knowing that most of his classmates and the other parents will have read this.

And if she was at my DC school, I'd fecking judge with bells on.

NachoAddict Sun 20-Apr-14 18:21:38

I agree with who ever said the producers from channel 5 need to lay their cards on the table with her. If she aborts a much wanted baby on the chance of Bb and then is still rejected how will that affect her.

I cant see this ending well for her career regardless now anyway.

Iwalkthelinebecauseyourmine Sun 20-Apr-14 18:42:50

Everyone has a right to abortion, in my personal opinion.
I think what people are troubled by is this woman's behaviour surrounding wanting one.
She first made me feel rather revolted ... Now I feel sorry for her and her unborn child. She is clearly not well. At all. I hope she has a necessary intervention to help her.

Eminybob Sun 20-Apr-14 18:47:50

I've not read the full thread so apologies if it's moved on from the pro choice discussion.

I think it's possible to be pro choice and still disgusted by an individual's particular reasons for aborting.

It's like being anti-murder but agreeing with euthanasia to a degree. (Well the opposite but you know what I mean)

If the article is to be believed, which I don't in all honesty, she appears to have been happy with the pregnancy until she found it had harmed her chances to go on big brother. To suddenly go from wanting the child you are carrying to not just like that days to me she is in serious need of help. Either that or an intensely awful type of person.

I am 25 weeks pg, and having seen my baby boy on screen, felt him wiggling and kicking, and the intense love I have for him already, I cannot comprehend killing him. For any reason. But that's just me, I understand that people feel differently, and if there is a genuine mental or medical reason why the pregnancy can't continue then I support the woman's choice. But there is not a valid reason to kill this child.

I realise this makes me sound like a hypocrite, and I am waffling, and I suppose it is because I am only just a little bit more pg than she is, but this has made me incredibly sad. I just really really hope that it isn't true.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 19:15:35

Eminy

You are quite a lot further al than her. You are past the legal limit and couldn't abort without there being serious risk to your own life

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 19:19:12

Eminy

You are quite a lot further along than her. You are past the legal limit and couldn't abort without there being serious risk to your own life or of severe disability or curtailed life in your baby.

If posters generally advocate a lower limit onabortion, that's one thing. But there is currently no requirement legally for a further medical reason for abortion until past the 24 week point.

OooOooTheMonkey Sun 20-Apr-14 19:41:07

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SinisterBuggyMonth Sun 20-Apr-14 19:43:13

Well I hope her root canal treatment is fucking painful

Eminybob Sun 20-Apr-14 19:44:21

I would have felt the same way at 18 weeks

Eminybob Sun 20-Apr-14 19:44:47

(As I do now)

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 19:55:53

That's fair enough eminy, but as you say being pro choice means supporting the right to a choice even if you disagree with it or wouldn't choose it for yourself.

Eminybob Sun 20-Apr-14 19:58:16

I guess I'm a conditional pro-choicer then

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 20:00:45

Do you think the abortion limit should be lower?

Eminybob Sun 20-Apr-14 20:14:17

It's hard to say. In principal yes, but I I understand there may be exceptional circumstances which mean a higher limit may need to be applied.

All I can say is that this particular scenario is not right, ethically, and shouldn't be legally either.

SuffolkNWhat Sun 20-Apr-14 20:14:38

Twitter is foul tonight, so much hate going her way.

Mushypeasandchipstogo Sun 20-Apr-14 20:16:41

Agree totally with 70. Feel very sorry for her children and do hope SS are on her case.

CerealMom Sun 20-Apr-14 20:27:12

I wouldn't be surprised if BB/ch5 aren't rubbing their hands in glee with all the extra attention the (ailing) programme is getting.

Wouldn't be surprised if JC keeps the baby - another 9 months plus of tales to keep her in the '15'mins. Plus ok type baby pics. Who's the daddy articles etc...

Wouldn't be surprised if JC aborts - another few weeks of tales to keep her in the '15'mins.

Wouldn't be surprised if BB/ch5 allow her on programme pregnant - good for viewing figs.

Wouldn't be surprised if BB/ch5 allow her on programme not pregnant - good for viewing figures.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 20:29:47

Yeah, I think the media's ethical position on this one sucks.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 20:33:07

The trouble is, Eminy, hard cases make bad law.

The current rules allow abortion after 24 weeks only In Exceptional medical circumstances. Short of bringing that line forward to, say, 16 weeks, some abortions will be had for reasons that not everyone will agree with. If you think the foetus attains personhood at sometime before 24 weeks, then all abortions after that time are unethical unless under exceptional medical circumstances, surely?

NeedsAsockamnesty Sun 20-Apr-14 20:34:22

What do children's services have to do with someone choosing to have an abortion?

Mushypeasandchipstogo Sun 20-Apr-14 20:43:42

[Needs] I am pro abortion but choosing (possibly) to have an abortion so late for such a pathetic reason what sort of caring mother would do that? Don't her children deserve better?

catgirl1976 Sun 20-Apr-14 20:43:44

I feel very sorry for her. She certainly doesn't strike me as being well and now she is being exploited for tabloid entertainment and to give us something to froth over.

God knows who is advising her but it's certainly not anyone who gives a fuck about her.

Just incredibly sad sad

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 20:45:23

"God knows who is advising her but it's certainly not anyone who gives a fuck about her."

I agree.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 20:46:58

Plenty of existing mothers have abortions; you and SS have no idea of the timing or the reasons, usually. And, TBF, she hasn't actually had the abortion yet, AFAIK, and may still change her mind.

CerealMom Sun 20-Apr-14 20:51:48

Exactly Doctrine. All that free advertising. You can almost hear the channel/programme execs creaming their pants with every mention of her name.

It must be like a 'so true' cringey 'Thick of It' episode in their meeting rooms. Spin, spin, spin people.

Coldlightofday Sun 20-Apr-14 20:51:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mushypeasandchipstogo Sun 20-Apr-14 20:52:56

Yep, I suspect that she actually won't go ahead with the abortion and then claim that she is the best mother alive etc etc. Still have absolutely no sympathy for her.

catgirl1976 Sun 20-Apr-14 21:00:21

I'll save my anger for the people who think the public destruction of a vulnerable young woman is a glorious opportunity for profit.

The newspapers and media companies who hold up a pregnant, damaged, sex worker with two young children and likely mental health issues and encourage her to be ripped apart for fun and financial gain.

Those people I can get angry about.

Her I can only feel pity for.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 21:00:30

It's everybody's prerogative to dislike this woman, or her media image, as much as they want.

It's nobody's prerogative to deny her an abortion provided she meets the criteria of the "two doctor" opinion, or to deny her anything else she gets as a citizen, such as protection under the law, an objective view from social services etc.

Coldlightofday Sun 20-Apr-14 21:02:30

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MyGastIsFlabbered Sun 20-Apr-14 21:15:21

I read about this in the Mirror and I prayed the whole way through that it wasn't true.

I am staunchly pro-choice but still this sits uncomfortably with me, but I think it's more because I don't understand why she is telling the world?

thornrose Sun 20-Apr-14 21:53:52

My mum had an abortion after having 2 children. Sis and me were both at school, mum had just found a good job, it was bad timing and I don't see anything wrong with that reasoning.

This woman is really just a modern version of that really. She had a job offer which could make her a lot of money. She wouldn't get the job if she was pregnant so she chose an abortion.

But somehow it doesn't seem the same and I'm questioning why I find it so difficult not to find her actions repulsive.

If I didn't know the job was CBB, if I didn't know about the breast implants and the rest of her back story I don't think I'd have a problem with her decision.

She's been set up as the poster child for everything that is wrong with society (according to some) and the media saw her coming a fucking mile away, shame on them.

NeedsAsockamnesty Sun 20-Apr-14 22:09:00

Fuck me,so now your a bad mother for having a abortion at 18 weeks because some people on the Internet disagree with your reasons for wanting one.

That's low

scallopsrgreat Sun 20-Apr-14 22:33:29

She had a job offer which could make her a lot of money. She wouldn't get the job if she was pregnant so she chose an abortion.

Yes that's what's fucked up and not actually being examined. A woman not being able to have a job because she's pregnant. Same old. Same old.

thornrose Sun 20-Apr-14 22:44:57

This story has thrown up so many issues scallops that one didn't even register! blush

FreudiansSlipper Sun 20-Apr-14 22:50:21

i never thought about that either

it is a shame so many are unable to look beyond the headlines even when it is from the woman hating dm

scallopsrgreat Sun 20-Apr-14 22:51:12

Yes I only registered it because you mentioned it.

thornrose Sun 20-Apr-14 23:04:55

Freudian it's given me so much food for thought. I had an initial knee jerk reaction then started to analyse what was really going on.

It's so bloody easy to get sucked in though and feel the outrage that they (the DM and such like) so carefully instigate.

jeanmiguelfangio Sun 20-Apr-14 23:06:03

Is it me or does it not make sense? Have an abortion to be on bb, going to work to pay back the money for the boob job, but she spent the money on clothes for the new baby. Erm, none of this story makes sense. What do I expect from the daily fail.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Apr-14 23:13:39

"Yes that's what's fucked up and not actually being examined. A woman not being able to have a job because she's pregnant. Same old. Same old."

Hmm. I wonder if BB have an exemption from sex discrimination laws on the same grounds that you can restrict applicants for an acting job by gender, age, race - or if they are actually open to legal action here, like the Beeb and the Countryfile presenter.

bochead Sun 20-Apr-14 23:17:08

She doesn't sound like a wel gel, but rather one who is being badly let down by NHS mental health services tbh. If she gets an it'll be because abortion is legal when a mother's MH is at risk, at the discretion of those far better qualified than "journalist" to make that call.

From this perspective I'm furious that someone so vulnerable should be so exploited by the Daily Fail. I thought we had laws to protect the vulnerable from this sort of thing? imho this woman is being failed badly by a number of agencies that taxpayer funds generously to protect her.

bochead Sun 20-Apr-14 23:21:45

her two existing children can so easily be identified from this story.

Agree on the comment about how a woman shouldn't have to have an abortion in order to do a job of work too!

She's the victim, not the bad guy here.

bumbleymummy Sun 20-Apr-14 23:44:32

Given that she has plastered her reasons for wanting the abortion all over the place, how is she supposed to get two doctors to sign off on this?

Summerwood1 Mon 21-Apr-14 00:25:07

Selfish,arrogant woman. I'm not being unkind but she doesn't look like model material to me. I wonder if she is just saying that for the publicity,5 months gone and showing off her bump and scan and then saying she will abort,doesn't make any sense to me. I would be ashamed if she was a member of my family.

She ticks all the Daily Mail Bingo Boxes:

But I still don't see her as the victim here.It's not like putting off a house move or going to University. She's considering terminating a pg because she's short listed for some tacky TV show.

She's used by the press I agree, but she has made choices-
the choice to have the surgery and go public.
(I did some Googling - for shame) the dad was a client or a friend she has casual sex with.
The client - she gave alot of detail about his age, marital status and profession- asked her to keep quiet. Did she? No,

The Friend-with-Benefits. Is he the International Footballer? Anyone who knows her will work out who this man is.

She's got two boys and she's had five MCs.
Even if she does go on CBB next year , what will be next on her agenda? More surgery? Another baby?

If she was my daughter (and I am old enough to be her mother) I'd weep.

thornrose Mon 21-Apr-14 00:53:40

Agreed it's a tacky tv show but replace CBB with a 12 month contract at a city bank, with a guaranteed bonus of £10k after the 12 months. You won't be able to fulfil the contract if you're pregnant. If that was your dd would you still weep?

She's not guaranteed the CBB gig though.
And it's the fact she treats this pregnancy like it's going to get in the way of her 'career' and the big house and Pink Range Rover.

She can do what she likes. She can bonk the entire football team if she wants.

It's no skin off my nose.
It's just the ideal she has of the sudden fame and stardom.
If she worked in a bank, chances are the contract (or equivilant) would be there next year.
CBB won't be.

But, as I've said (either on this thread or another) I think alot of the DM report is a bit economical with the truth,

I am in favour of abortion on demand at any stage. Women should have the absolute right to decide what happens to their bodies.

I feel sorry for this girl, who is clearly a mess. She seems to be going out of her way to make herself hated, which suggests some nasty MH issues - it's almost as though she wants to be shamed and punished, because she hates herself. And the tabloids are going to tear her to pieces, despite the fact that her story is of no actual interest or relevance to anyone else.

In the very few seconds of TV that I saw Katie Price (in her series with The Orange One) she was either really mean to him (the surprise party he threw for her) or
"Well that'll be all over the Press tomorrow"

Yes because your PR Team will ake sure it is.

KP has always been portrayed as a very unpleasant character (no idea if she is, but she's also clever)

The TOWIE crew

Kerry K (though she's slunk away to have her new baby) is always hated by the Press.

So yes, Miss Cunningham has done her best to step into their shoes. But she lacks talent or any likeability.

TillyTellTale Mon 21-Apr-14 01:48:09

<sits back in Psychologist's Armchair>

Woman is most likely not well. The best thing the public can do for her is to ignore her, and hope she gets good advice and support from any medical staff she sees. As I would hope for any human being. The public's vocal disgust will not help her mental state. If one feels she should not terminate, it is even doubly imperative for one to ignore her.

If we ignore her will she go away then?
Like the shape in your bedroom that you know is a dressing gown but it looks like a creepy bloke standing by your wardrobe?

grin

TillyTellTale Mon 21-Apr-14 01:59:38

Yes, yes she will! All I need is international cooperation. I have it all worked out.

I have a pet hypothesis that if the entire nation and bits of Europe refuse to buy gossip magazines featuring a particular celebrity and refuse to click on any articles featuring said celebrity, and we send a few emails explaining why the boycott is occurring, the Power of the Market will protect us from ever seeing the personage again.

differentnameforthis Mon 21-Apr-14 04:34:01

I would be ashamed if she was a member of my family. So would I. But not because of her antics, but because my family had failed her so spectacularly!

Where is her family in this? Everyone is concerned for her little lads, but no one is concerned for her. It's tragic that she sees a termination as a route to success.

FanjoForTheMammaries Mon 21-Apr-14 05:01:49

Why do some people suck up the lies in these articles as gospel truth and froth about them.

Ie she had a boob job on NHS ..because she had a medical condition.

She had dental work when pregnant..loads of people do, she probably had toothache.

She was proud of scan photo and buying clothes then decided she wanted an abortion..well clearly she has some difficult issues gong on.

People are even bitching about her miscarriages.

I mean why not think a wee bit deeper than what the tabloids are trying to make you rage about.

Depressing.

FanjoForTheMammaries Mon 21-Apr-14 05:04:33

And I am looking at you here aeroflotgirl and ddubsgirl

LtEveDallas Mon 21-Apr-14 07:34:22

There is some rough horrible stuff on FB and Twitter about her. Death threats included. What does these people think they are achieving? Do they really think that their outpourings of hate are going to change anything?

She has been really stupid in her pursuit for fame, but I save my ire for the Daily Mirror et al who have pushed this story, knowing what was going to happen.

If any of her story is true, then she is a terribly damaged individual. She doesn't deserve the vitriol being thrown at her.

Her body, her right to choose. She should have kept this private.

KeepOnKeepingOnAndOnAndOnAndOn Mon 21-Apr-14 08:00:03

I think her local MH team need to stage an intervention. If she is deemed well by a MH assessment then I think social services should get involved for the sake of her other kids. Either way , she needs serious help and I feel extremely sad for her unborn baby whatever the outcome for it may be ...

"I would be ashamed if she was a member of my family. So would I. But not because of her antics, but because my family had failed her so spectacularly! "

I have spoken about one female relative, in depth on MN.

She has just used abortion as contraception (I know of a few vulnerable/abused young women who have). She is already planning another pregnancy, but intends to go ahead with it, possibly. She has lost residency of one child.

She was failed by her Birth Mother and SS planning.

At nearly 19, we (wider family) are picking up the pieces.

She has just finished CAHMS, they recommended Charity Young People Counselling/Services, as she is over reliant on professionals, she is rejecting going.

There is little that "a family" can do, sometimes.

We could go NC, in a tough love way, but as she has had one suicide attempt, this could be her death sentence, plus we are the ones keeping contact going with her existing child. We know NC will not do anyone any good.

You cannot solve other peoples deep rooted problems.

I don't agree with abortion as contraception.

I do think that in cases like this, were the woman has scan pictures etc, an abortion will add to their MH/emotional issues.

I hate papers like the DM and how far the reality shows are pushing boundaries.

Women like Josie are not better or worse than any person who has severe issues, it's just unfortunate that their ability to carry/have a child also becomes part of their mistakes.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Mon 21-Apr-14 09:51:07

The a

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Mon 21-Apr-14 09:58:15

"And it's the fact she treats this pregnancy like it's going to get in the way of her 'career' "

She's been told by C5 that the pregnancy will get in the way of this career.

As for the big house and the pink jeep - plenty of us limit the size of our families to afford nicer houses, bigger cars, overseas holidays etc.

"If she worked in a bank, chances are the contract (or equivilant) would be there next year."

Maybe, maybe not. It could be a spring board. BB has been a spring board for others to get famous.

Horsemad Mon 21-Apr-14 10:35:35

Or infamous.

scallopsrgreat Mon 21-Apr-14 10:59:34

Abortion is never used as contraception. Likening abortion and contraception is just more women-hating rubbish.

Horsemad Mon 21-Apr-14 11:01:36

Sadly, it wouldn't surpriise me if it was used as contraception scallops.

ICanSeeTheSun Mon 21-Apr-14 11:02:19

I am pro choice, so for what ever reason she want an abortion I support that.

What I don't like is the fact that it posted on the media.

mercibucket Mon 21-Apr-14 11:06:33

abortion is sometimes used as contraception

winkywinkola Mon 21-Apr-14 11:10:00

"Abortion is never used as contraception. Likening abortion and contraception is just more women-hating rubbish"

I am pro choice but I think an abortion is a big deal.

Abortion cannot be used as a contraception. Pedantic as it may sound, conception has already occurred.

I have two friends who have had 2 and 3 abortions and are very casual about it and about using contraception in general.

So there are people out there who don't consider it to be that big a deal at all.

Is that woman hating rubbish? I don't think so.

This Josie Cunningham sounds like a daft mare but if she wants to terminate her pregnancy to go on Big Brother (great ambition there), then that's up to her.

ICanSeeTheSun Mon 21-Apr-14 11:12:50

I very sad because the public hate her, she will be voted off pretty quick.

Shockers Mon 21-Apr-14 11:22:48

She will be famous, but I can imagine the vitriol. It's like watching a car crash, she needs good people around her.

UnderthePalms Mon 21-Apr-14 11:26:07

It says in the Metro that she is not going to be allowed on BB
I wonder if she will still abort

Shockers Mon 21-Apr-14 11:27:31

A friend of my exSIL had 5 abortions during the 80s. She was just a lazy git who slept around without taking precautions. She came with SIL to visit me in hospital after I'd had DS1. I've no idea why as we weren't friends... I asked SIL to take her away.

Fakebook Mon 21-Apr-14 11:42:43

I'm pro choice, I don't care if people have abortions but posing with your bump for newspapers and exclaiming that an abortion will further your career as you'll get to go on BB is just the lowest of the low attention seeking. Shame on the newspapers for publishing this sad and sorry story.

I sometimes wonder wtf is happening to the world, it seems everyone will do absolutely anything for fame. sad

lollilou Mon 21-Apr-14 11:56:01

I have a feeling that with all the vitriol being thrown her way that she will change her mind and keep the baby milking it with numerous interviews and tasteless naked mother and bump/baby photo shoots.
At least that is what I hope will happen.

FrigginRexManningDay Mon 21-Apr-14 12:01:36

She seems like a very troubled young woman. Bullied because of a medical condition, NHS corrects that medical condition and she is bullied because of it being corrected. Her looks, body, breasts picked apart on social media. Pregnant after having multiple miscarriages with a baby she doesn't know who fathered it because she is a sex worker. Already a mother of two (wheres the father of those two children, why isn't he/they being pulled apart by joe public).

Even the strongest of people would not go through that and come out unscathed. I see a messed up, vulnerable woman with zero self esteem that the media have exploited.

ddubsgirl77 Mon 21-Apr-14 12:03:39

ch5 have said she wont be on the show no matter what she does and was only a slim chance of being on it in the first place before they found out she was pregnant.

Hedgehog80 Mon 21-Apr-14 14:45:07

Very sad story.

Itsfab Mon 21-Apr-14 14:50:06

She won't be having the abortion yet. She is getting her teeth done for free first though has moaned she will only get silver fillings "though she supposes beggars can't be choosers."

And OP, you are so wrong. Women having terminations because the time is wrong as they have no partner, home, money to support the child is nothing like what this woman is saying she is going to do. If Channel 5 have her on BB I would fear for their sanity tbh.

Itsfab Mon 21-Apr-14 14:59:27

Some of the comments remind me of the soon to be ex wife of a rugby player who has discovered she is now pregnant and is dropping hints about having a termination. She did this at the same time as announcing her pregnancy. It appears her announcement was all about getting her 15 minutes of fame as no one needed to know if she is planning an abortion.

5madthings Mon 21-Apr-14 15:09:05

I'll save my anger for the people who think the public destruction of a vulnerable young woman is a glorious opportunity for profit.

The newspapers and media companies who hold up a pregnant, damaged, sex worker with two young children and likely mental health issues and encourage her to be ripped apart for fun and financial gain.

Those people I can get angry about.

Her I can only feel pity for.

^ this that catgirl? Said and others such as solid.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Mon 21-Apr-14 15:13:50

As a citizen, she is entitled to free dental work whilst pregnant.

As a citizen, she is allowed to whinge about the NHS grin

sashh Mon 21-Apr-14 15:44:52

Why are so many people saying she has mental health issues?

She has decided to have an abortion so she must be mentally ill? That's really offensive.

I will be honest, I had never heard of her before this weekend.

Women have abortions for all sorts of reasons, most don't publicise them, and some may seem to have more 'deserving' reasons to you and me, but they do not make you mentally ill.

2468Motorway Mon 21-Apr-14 15:47:22

I'm ok with whatever her reasons to terminate. Not that she should care what I think. No woman should be forced to have a baby.

I think the tabloid stuff is depressing and sad but I separate this from her desire to terminate. It is sad the world isn't fairer and all people who want children aren't able and that kids are in care but these are not within her power to change. These issues are all separate.

Cornettoninja Mon 21-Apr-14 15:50:36

I think it's more her back story than this one specifically sash.

Going to the papers about her nhs breast implants, dabbling in prostitution, her whole approach to publicising herself as a glamour model - this is just another massively controversial story she's happily promoting in her quest for fame.

Granted she may have no mental health issues at all, but to the casual observer it's not a huge leap to think there's some self esteem / self awareness issues there. If there's not I think a few people would struggle to understand her motives.

NeedsAsockamnesty Mon 21-Apr-14 15:53:19

In some circles of society you end up having to get information about yourself 'out there' because if you don't some manipulative git will be more than happy to either hold the threat over your head or spill the beans themselves for about £100.

mummywithsmiles25 Mon 21-Apr-14 16:24:32

This whole thing is way to close to my heart !

1.under certain amount of weeks i am pro choice ,i think it should be lowered to 12 weeks...unless medical , trauma reasons.

2. The reason for abortion makes me sick she should have decided sooner that she wanted a glam lifestyle not a baby before 19 weeks.

i was offered a termination at 33 weeks pregnant ! ...i considered for health reasons ..they said she wouldn't survive but i ended up giving my baby the chance , my life has changed forever but i would never have been able to go through with fact i ended my daughters life, not my life to give up on.

differentnameforthis Tue 22-Apr-14 06:39:12

She has decided to have an abortion so she must be mentally ill? That's really offensive. I agree, however we haven't said that at all.

Looking at the whole picture, the fact that she is SO convinced that she will achieve fame without this pregnancy continuing. The fact that she had other surgery, the fact that she then reversed that surgery, the fact that she has no idea who the father is, the fact that she she sells herself...

All of that, is the reason people are speculating as to the fact that she could have MH issues.

winkywinkola Tue 22-Apr-14 22:13:57

Exactly.

AmberLeaf Tue 22-Apr-14 23:39:16

I don't quite get why people are taking a story in the daily mail as gospel anyway?

The amount of vitriol I have read online the last few days about this women is sickening.

She is no doubt vulnerable in some way and has been manipulated horrifically by the press.

TheRealMaryMillington Tue 22-Apr-14 23:44:18

That link summed up just about everything that is wrong in the world. How totally depressing.

thornrose Wed 23-Apr-14 12:54:40

She's been set up as the poster child for everything that is wrong with society (according to some) and the media saw her coming a fucking mile away, shame on them

Oh dear it's working!

daphnehoneybutt Wed 23-Apr-14 14:48:48

Saw this in the front of Daily Mirror on Sunday.

Why on earth was this story front page news?

I would love to know who is advising her to create this persona. Maybe I am being too nice but I suspect there is some agent or "manager" encouraging her on this path of infamy and taking a cut of the money.

Callani Wed 23-Apr-14 15:47:22

I personally believe that every child should be a wanted child and although I disagree with the way she's going about this, I don't think that bringing a new baby into her life is going to improve things for her or the child.

As others have pointed out, I feel far more moral outrage at the editors / journalists / managers etc at the newspapers who think it's acceptable to profit from this woman in this way. What's worse is you just know that they will almost definitely use this woman as the next Vicky Pollard example to portray all single mothers, all people on benefits etc as scum.

To my mind, profit hungry vultures are more worthy of censure than a vulnerable woman and I'm incredibly dubious about the ethics of publishing such a story.

FreeLikeABird Wed 23-Apr-14 15:52:17

This story printed in the paper is awful, the media really are dire, you can see she has issues by reading her twitter feed, I think it's all very sad.

I do wonder if there is an even less pleasant reason for the setting up of this unfortunate woman as such a spectacular misogynists' punchbag.

One of the pet tactics of foetus-worshippers and the obsessively woman-hating end of the anti-choice movement (which is inherently woman-hating) is to go on, and on, and on about stupid feckless sluts who want late terminations for selfish reasons. They use this tactic to confuse the not-very-clever who believe vaguely in women's right to choose but can get a bit sentimental over ickle babies.

(Let's be very clear. If you think another woman's decision to terminate a pregnancy at any stage is any of your business, ever, you are not very clever, you are too easily swayed by sentimentality or your own personal circumstances (which are no one else's problem) and you don't like women very much. No exceptions)

And now here comes this mixed up girl with her trainwreck public persona so they can all start screaming Look! Look! This is what happens when you give women equal rights! If there aren't sensible Men to make decisions, all women will kill their babies for a new lipstick and a date with a footballer!

ANd there will be a new bill to restrict women's rights to abortion and contraception, because we can't be trusted.

CaptChaos Wed 23-Apr-14 16:00:44

I agree SGB

All that talk about, "Ooooh, she's got a baby bump in that picture, how can she murder her ickle baby now?" worries me.

There seems to be a small but loud forced birth brigade in the UK now, similar to and sent over from the USA. The really scary thing about it is how women's rights and women control over their bodies is being eroded in the USA. I really hope that the UK legislature has more backbone, but I have my doubts.

cestlavielife Wed 23-Apr-14 16:14:27
PonyoLovesHam Wed 23-Apr-14 16:25:22

I agree with every word SolidGoldBrass, spot on.

thornrose Wed 23-Apr-14 16:33:32

Good article, I see Dr Christian is spouting more of his crap!

blackcats73 Wed 23-Apr-14 16:51:29

Really Solid? Agree with everything YOU say or we aren't very clever? Outstanding arrogance!

(For the record pro choice up to 24 weeks for any reason whatsoever) then terminations only if the fetus has a life ;limiting disability)

You have the absolute right to your opinion of course but I think the view that terminations up to birth for any reason is a minority view on here and in the general population.

On your other points, the Mail is disgusting and this woman is being exploited in a totally awful way.

NeedsAsockamnesty Wed 23-Apr-14 17:30:15

She's got a point backcats getting all worked up about what someone else's uterus does is not exactly the brightest thing to do

bumbleymummy Wed 23-Apr-14 18:18:47

"They use this tactic to confuse the not-very-clever who believe vaguely in women's right to choose but can get a bit sentimental over ickle babies. Let's be very clear. If you think another woman's decision to terminate a pregnancy at any stage is any of your business, ever, you are not very clever, you are too easily swayed by sentimentality or your own personal circumstances (which are no one else's problem) and you don't like women very much. No exceptions"

Well you've just dismissed most of the pro-choicers on MN, sorry, most pro-choicers in the UK as not-very-clever, sentimental, easily led misogynists. Most people support the idea of abortion to 24 weeks (the current law), very few support the right to abort to term for any reason. (thankfully)

LtEveDallas Wed 23-Apr-14 18:50:11

I agree with SGB - "Let's be very clear. If you think another woman's decision to terminate a pregnancy at any stage is any of your business, ever you are not very clever, you are too easily swayed by sentimentality or your own personal circumstances (which are no one else's problem) and you don't like women very much. No exceptions"

Whether a woman terminates before OR AFTER the 24 week limit it is NO-ONE ELSES BUSINESS it is the business of that woman ALONE. It is not up to ANYONE else, pro-choice or anti-choice, to determine what a person does WITH THEIR OWN BODY.

bumbleymummy Wed 23-Apr-14 19:13:23

"Whether a woman terminates before OR AFTER the 24 week limit it is NO-ONE ELSES BUSINESS it is the business of that woman ALONE."

Actually Lt, it is. Abortion is only legal in the UK (for non-medical reasons) up to 24 weeks. If a woman tries to illegally abort a pregnancy after 24 weeks then it very much is other people's business. You can idealistically support the idea that abortion after 24 weeks for any reason is no one else's business but legally, it is.

LtEveDallas Wed 23-Apr-14 19:30:29

I Didn't mention legalities. Do I really have to quantify for you? OK.

Whether a woman LEGALLY terminates before OR AFTER the 24 week limit it is NO-ONE ELSES BUSINESS it is the business of that woman ALONE. It is not up to ANYONE else, pro-choice or anti-choice, to determine what a person does WITH THEIR OWN BODY

Horsemad Wed 23-Apr-14 19:47:08

It might not be anyone else's business what she does with her body, but when the person uses the media to draw attention to the fact she's doing it to further her already tawdry 'career', then what does she expect?

Who is this woman anyway? Lots of people had never heard of her until this thread. She appears to be mentally deficient if she can't see she's being exploited by the press.

CaptChaos Wed 23-Apr-14 20:53:42

She appears to be mentally deficient if she can't see she's being exploited by the press.

Nice attitude hmm

NeedsAsockamnesty Wed 23-Apr-14 21:17:32

Who cares if you think it's a tawdry career it's quite clearly the one she wants

Why is it a problem because its fame she's seeking instead of something like wanting to be a police officer or a judge or a doctor

Dontforgetyourbrolly Wed 23-Apr-14 21:40:03

She makes me feel sick

Horsemad Wed 23-Apr-14 21:45:15

Needsasock it's no wonder kids today have no ambition if this is the example they are being set.

The whole 'sleb wannabe' culture is so depressing.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Wed 23-Apr-14 21:48:14

"Who cares if you think it's a tawdry career it's quite clearly the one she wants

Why is it a problem because its fame she's seeking instead of something like wanting to be a police officer or a judge or a doctor"

This.

Ilovemydogandmydoglovesme Wed 23-Apr-14 22:07:16

Do you honestly think fame-seeking is as worthy a career? shock

bumbleymummy Wed 23-Apr-14 22:08:56

Is appearing on celebrityBB really a 'career'?

DownstairsMixUp Wed 23-Apr-14 22:09:00

People getting their knickers in a twist and I highly doubt now she will get into CBB at all, infact, the people saying vile things about her, I am going to take a guess you will get your way and she will probably spiral downwards. This isn't a celebrity that's well known for having an affair or some sex scandal, this sort of topic really gets people riled (as seen above) so apart from the odd story she'll sell to That's Life or the DM, I highly doubt any reality show cbb will take her on and I doubt she'll get glamour modelling work either as she isn't "traditionally" the sort of girl you'd see in lads mags. I think this will cause her a lot of damage and she'll probably end up having to sell herself more and that is sad. I can't believe people are saying they want the shit beaten out of her. Disgusting!

YoureBeingASillyBilly Wed 23-Apr-14 22:09:56

confused

So only 'worthy' career types should get to have abortions to protect career prospects? My last job was as a cleaner- is that worthy enough to have deserved a judgement free abortion or should i have had to bring an unwanted child into the world and once again be dependant on benefits to support it?

Horsemad Wed 23-Apr-14 22:10:32

Sadly, an ever increasing number of people do, Ilovemydog.

Ho hum... hmm

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Wed 23-Apr-14 22:26:01

Was coming on to post, but Billy has nailed it.

Christ.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Wed 23-Apr-14 22:27:08

What if a SAHM wants to get an abortion? "Sorry love, no career, no excuse"??

She's fucked now. She has been completely done over by the gutter press. From her twitter she seems quite articulate but very naive. Horrible, vacuous types like Nicola McLean (who that?) and Dr dickhead are bullying her in order to make themselves appear paragons of virtue to their thousands of nodding, arselicking, dribbling followers.

But where can this woman go from here? What's left for her? The whole thing makes me shudder and fear for what we are becoming thanks to this trial by twitter and horrible newspapers.

Horsemad Wed 23-Apr-14 22:40:25

Can I just clarify: I am pro choice. Always have been, always will be.

I have a pathological hatred of all 'sleb wannabes' and to be so blatant about her reasons for a termination does not sit well with me.

But, if she can sleep easy at night, then good for her.

But why should anyone give a flying fuck about her reasons for terminating her pregnancy? It's no one else's business. What happens to her body has no effect at all on anyone else's fertility, anyone else's children, anyone else's life - apart from the fact that vicious morons might use, or want to use, her as an example of why women should not be allowed control over their own bodies.

ShadowsCollideCantLogInToMN Thu 24-Apr-14 01:15:41

Exactly, SGB. I'm pro-choice. End of. Not 'I'm pro choice but...' or 'I'm pro choice if...' I'm just pro choice. DP and I are currently dealing with the fact that we will never have biological children. I still don't have any right to have an opinion as to what other women choose to do with their own bodies. I actually get really fucked off with the 'there are women desperate to have children' argument, as used upthread by another poster (can't be arsed to go back and check which one). FFS. State your case, make your argument, but don't use me and my inability to have children to make it.

I honestly don't care why the woman who is the subject of this thread wants an abortion. I only care that she is free to make that choice, and has access to safe abortion.

Horsemad Thu 24-Apr-14 06:56:55

And on the flip side, why shouldn't people give a flying fuck?

Luckily in this country we are permitted an opinion. She's allowed her choice and others are allowed their opinions.

Imagine a life where we weren't.

sashh Thu 24-Apr-14 07:13:06

Cornettoninja

Self esteem and back story I can understand, I'm exactly the opposite, I have turned down chances to be on TV.

The thought makes me cringe, and that probably has a lot to do with my background.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 24-Apr-14 07:31:50

I'm pro-choice. Full stop. It's her choice, her body. Not mine.

Martin Robbins nails it:

What makes the "debate" around Josie Cunningham so disturbing is that it refuses to even acknowledge the idea that access to abortion is a basic human right, or that women are entitled to choose what they do with their own bodies. If we fail to defend Cunningham, then we accept that only those women who are "deserving" enough should be allowed to have an abortion. And if we accept that, then it's only a matter of time before others are deemed undeserving as well.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Thu 24-Apr-14 08:12:11

Well said Sabrina and Martin.

I find it extra worrying that this is an 18 week abortion under the spotlight. Iirc parliament debated a reduction to 20 weeks and kept the limit the same. This is well within the law and would have been within even if the law had changed.

PrimalLass Thu 24-Apr-14 08:16:16

It becomes people's business when she chooses it to be by selling her story to the papers.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Thu 24-Apr-14 08:38:27

No, it doesn't. You can have an opinion on her as a person, you can have an opinion on whether you would have an abortion in her shoes, what you can't do is say whether or not she "deserves" an abortion, any more than you can say whether she "deserves" to drive her car on public roads or be treated by a GP. The only people who can judge whether or not she can access legal abortion services are the two doctors who need to sign off.

I think she has managed to get to a new low level of sleb.

Jordan almost seems royal now.

whatever next, people selling their granny on TV and beating up their mum, to be famous? idea for a new reality show "How far would you go be famous?"

That's where it feels we are heading!

PrimalLass Thu 24-Apr-14 11:27:41

what you can't do is say whether or not she "deserves" an abortion, any more than you can say whether she "deserves" to drive her car on public roads or be treated by a GP

Actually, I can pretty much say all of that. It's called free speech.

PrimalLass Thu 24-Apr-14 11:28:54

FTR, I am very much pro choice. But still allowed to find it really distasteful that someone would use this situation for 5 minutes of very cheap fame.

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 24-Apr-14 11:31:51

You dont know she did that.

Tabloid Journalists are cunning
They probably got her to open up by being really sympathetic and promising a lovely supportive article.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Thu 24-Apr-14 12:56:14

I find Peter Andre pretty distasteful, but he deserves as much access to UK services and laws as any other citizen. Ditto Nigel Farage, John McCorick (sexist racing commentator) et al.

WhitegoldWielder Thu 24-Apr-14 12:59:51

I'm with SGB, Sabrina and Lt - don't be fooled by the nasty women- hating aspect to this story. Some parts of the press are really relishing their manipulative behavior here without the obvious question being asked - Why publish in the first place?

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Thu 24-Apr-14 13:24:27

"Woman considers abortion well within the legal limit" is news on a par with "Woman has tits: look, here they are", isn't it?

PrimalLass Thu 24-Apr-14 13:47:54

You dont know she did that.

She started hinting at it on Twitter.

NeedsAsockamnesty Thu 24-Apr-14 16:38:06

Who cares if I think fame seeking or not is a legit career it only matters that she does

It's legal it pays money to many people it is a perfectly valid career

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Thu 24-Apr-14 17:11:52

If she was having an abortion because she was unable to make money as a sex worker whilst pregnant and post birth, where would she fall on the judgeometer then?

I'm wondering who suggested
"Oh, I know, lets get a photo of you with some thin tape crossed over your norks. Bit like Jodie Marsh did, But you use NHS logo tape, since the NHS paid for them"

"Oh, yes, that'll get me in the tabloids, good idea" hmm

bumbleymummy Thu 24-Apr-14 20:11:05

I think it's more that she's making a bit of a mockery of the current abortion laws. The UK does not have 'abortion on demand', or at least it's not supposed to.

"Subject to the provisions of this section, a person shall not be guilty of an offence under the law relating to abortion when a pregnancy is terminated by a registered medical practitioner if two registered medical practitioners are of the opinion, formed in good faith—

(a)that the pregnancy has not exceeded its twenty-fourth week and that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated, of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman or any existing children of her family; or

(b)that the termination is necessary to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman; or

(c)that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk to the life of the pregnant woman, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated; or

(d)that there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped.]"

Two doctors need to be of the opinion that one of the above criteria is met. Given that 'wanting to be a celebrity' is not one of the above criteria, she is going to have to lie/distort the truth to fall into one of the other categories. Given that her real reasons for wanting a termination have been plastered all over the place, I can't see how two doctors are supposed to sign off on it in good faith.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Thu 24-Apr-14 20:16:06

"that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated, of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman or any existing children of her family;"

That is what the doctors have to agree on. If a woman does not want to be pregnant, then the risk to her mental health of continuing the pregnancy is highly likely to be greater than the risk to her mental health if the pregnancy were terminated.

YoureBeingASillyBilly Thu 24-Apr-14 20:24:51

people seriously underestimate the effect of having an unwanted baby on a person's immediate and long term mental health. It really isnt just as simple as "oh well she'll have it and get it raised somehow" thank goodness the doctors making the assessments are realistic about what actually constitutes a risk to mental health.

This all sounds very like the "you just have to shake yourself and get on with it" that gets trotted out to people who have depression.

If this baby posed a risk to her long term physical health no-one would object to the abortion but because it's an 'invisible' illness she should just have to tolerate it. And for what? So other people are satisfied with themselves they won!

FYI- her mental health will have a direct impact on her existing children- never mind the one you are proposing also be subjected to whatever the consequences of a forced birth would be.