Trust fund for children set up by pil

(134 Posts)
PoppySeed2014 Fri 11-Apr-14 21:34:16

Completely prepared to be told iabu. I really don't know...

We have 3 dc and are struggling a bit financially. Nothing dreadful but we've got into about £3k debt paying nursery fees etc.

My pil have set up trust funds for our dc which they (and only they) can access at 18. The money can't be touched by anyone till then.

Aibu to feel a bit weird that my pil have effectively entrusted my dc with large chunks of cash that my dh and I have no say over? I'm hoping they'll be mature, responsible 18 year olds who'll use the money for university. But... I just feel a bit uneasy.

I would rather the money was put into an account that we can use for their education now or save for when we feel they'll be responsible enough to use wisely.

Hit me with it. Aibu?!

PoppySeed2014 Fri 11-Apr-14 21:35:02

To be clear, it's our dc who will be able to access the money at 18. No one else!

PeachandRaspberry Fri 11-Apr-14 21:35:30

Not exactly BU, because I can understand that you would like the money now, but when they are 18 they will really appreciate it, and it will be more of a gift than now.

Preciousbane Fri 11-Apr-14 21:37:02

YABU because as much as I can understands how it would help you it's for them.

Tinkerball Fri 11-Apr-14 21:37:22

Whats wrong with Grand parents doing this for their Grand children?

specialmagiclady Fri 11-Apr-14 21:37:25

YAbu I'm afraid; your PIL's money, their decision what to do with it, annoyingly.

(I would feel exactly the same, but ultimately it does allow you to spend money on the stuff your DC need now and not be worrying about the futur as much).

Preciousbane Fri 11-Apr-14 21:38:09

Understand not understands!

quietlysuggests Fri 11-Apr-14 21:38:41

Could you explain about the 3,000 debt for nursery fees?
What does that mean?
Is it private school? Or early years childcare? Do you go to work, but your work does not pay enough to cover crèche?
because I don't know anyone who goes into debt for this and at this stage, so I wonder if you are pretty bad with money?

fluffyraggies Fri 11-Apr-14 21:39:25

Is it that you feel they have set it up this way because they don't trust you not to touch it perhaps?

I felt a bit like that when my DM set something up for my DCs.

PoppySeed2014 Fri 11-Apr-14 21:40:09

Yeah.... It's more a concern that at 18 they might do something stupid with it like buy a motorbike or something grin I'm really happy for the money to be set aside for them. But to be given to them when they're a bit older than 18 maybe, or in stages?

LePetitPrince Fri 11-Apr-14 21:40:23

3K debts run up for nursery fees? If you can't afford nursery, take a long hard look at your finances because at the very least, having two parents work should at least mean breaking even financially.

Without a lot more details, I'd tend to agree with your PILs. Imagine if they gave you access to it now and you spent it on nursery fees? You would be putting yourself at risk of having them judge other decisions in your life - nights out, holidays, etc. Having it go directly to your children for university fees removes all that potential for awkwardness.

PatsysPyjamas Fri 11-Apr-14 21:40:57

Yabu. By paying for their education do you mean the grandparents should give you money to pay your childcare bill? Your kids won't see any of that when they are older.

Chocoholic36 Fri 11-Apr-14 21:41:07

Yabu. My parents and PIL have done this for my children. I have spoken to my children about this and explained this will be the money they can use to help them get a car or go on a gap year with.

I don't mean to be rude but it seems as if you would rather have the money for yourself to help with bills.

sunshinysummer Fri 11-Apr-14 21:41:59

I would be annoyed. I really don't want anyone giving my children large chunks of money at 18. I saw that happen to friends who then dropped out of college/uni, had long holidays and lots of drinks and blew it all within a year or so.
Many 18year olds would not have the sense to put it towards uni fees or a car or deposit etc. I would rather mine get a Saturday job and go to college/university and appreciate the value of money. Then have access to the money at a point in the future when it can really be of benefit to them-first house type stuff when they are older.

EarSlaps Fri 11-Apr-14 21:42:18

It's a tax thing- my parents are thinking of setting something like that up for my children and my sister's children. In order to get tax benefits (not sure which, I haven't looked into it much), it has to be available to the child at 18.

I've asked my parents if they can have any mail about it going to them so that the boys don't find out about it, just in case they aren't the sort of 18 year olds who will use it sensibly.

PoppySeed2014 Fri 11-Apr-14 21:42:54

quietly We're not bad with money. We moved house and have 3 dc who are in private pre-school/nursery. We can repay our (small, interest free) debt in the next couple of months. But thanks for the judgement!

StickEmUpButDownBelow Fri 11-Apr-14 21:43:27

I think it's obviously nice for most people but I have never been given any money and if I find when I am older (unlikely, I am 30) someone saved me some money I wouldn't accept it.

I hope I dont get any will money either.

PatsysPyjamas Fri 11-Apr-14 21:45:50

Why is that StickEmUp?

sunshinysummer Fri 11-Apr-14 21:46:05

Infact both sets of grandparents have put a large amount of money aside for our children but in trust which they will not have access to until older. they discussed it in depth with us (and their wills state the same) and I really appreciate it. I do not want out children's lie being 'ruined' (a bit OTT I know!) by a well meant gifts that means they may go off the rails completely. My children are young and I have no idea what they will be like at 18, I imagine the OP feels the same.

However, I would not want the money now for bills and stuff (though we too are in debt) because I know it would inevitably go towards bills and outgoings and not be used as the grandparents wish.

Blu Fri 11-Apr-14 21:46:32

Yabu.

Presumably there are tax advantages to them giving the money in this way?

I do sympathise about the prospect of a windfall at 18, and would hope that from an early age the GP will say things like 'for your Uni fees' or 'for a deposit on a first flat' so that the idea is embedded.

badidea Fri 11-Apr-14 21:46:38

We set up a child trust fund for DS1 and since they're no longer available have a child isa for DS2 - but in both cases once they're 18 they get the cash. Me and DH are both a bit worried about this, but hope to speak, to them enough beforehand so that they realise what they're getting and can be a bit canny (DH got money from his grandad at 18 and he blew it - so he knows the temptations!)

We considered setting up a smaller savings product that they would get at 25 (when they might need it for setting up home etc, or getting a car) but at the moment we're too strapped for cash to do that.

I think it's all about the best childrens savings 'products' on the market to be honest, rather than your inlaws especially trusting 18 year olds with a large amount of dosh.

Hopefully you'll have a good few years to give them some money sense before they can access the funds.

PoppySeed2014 Fri 11-Apr-14 21:47:23

Interesting responses... Yes, if it was enough for a gap year or car, fine. But it'll be more than that. earslaps I think we'll just ask that our dc don't know about it until we want them to find out.

Anyone who wants a pre-school/private school bash, please don't. It's not relevant. I'm actually a sahm and my dc only started pre-school age 3. We call it nursery sometimes but it's not childcare nursery.

WeAllHaveWings Fri 11-Apr-14 21:48:31

it is very generous of your pil to set up these trusts for your dc and tbh it sounds in your op like you want your hands on it to pay your nursery debts which are your responsibility.

What education do you want to spend their money on just now?

Alibabaandthe40nappies Fri 11-Apr-14 21:49:39

YABU

It is PILs money, and entirely up to them what they do with it. It is a tax thing that they pass it directly to the grandchildren rather than putting it into an account that you can access.

If you can't afford private education for the three of them then that is your lookout, not theirs.

JWIM Fri 11-Apr-14 21:50:02

Hi OP
My parents have done this for the grandchildren. The children all know and have discussions with their grandad about spending/saving wisely. The two oldest have selected the investment options since 16 and then discussed with grandad, sorted setting up accounts and tax free interest etc. It has been good to add to their own financial awareness and they all respect their grandparents so have no intention of spending without thinking. Grandad has impressed on them his own concern that the money goes to the children direct at 18 (he would prefer into their 20s but that is not possible) and he hopes they will be wise and seek advice from their parents if unsure what to do.
They know they are very lucky so we parents hope they do right by their grandparents.

Polonius Fri 11-Apr-14 21:50:21

Large chunks of money set up for 21 here, based on my own experience. I got lark chunks at both 18 and 21. Whilst the 18th money was fun, the whole graduating, needing to find work and setting myself up as an adult was way harder than life with a student loan. I bought myself a masters degree, learned to drive and paid a large deposit on a London flat with my 21 money.

Money was never that tight at uni, and I'm glad I had it after. I'd done my own finances for 3 years at that point and got more sensible use out of the cash.

Fully understand that this depends on your DCs personalities though.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Fri 11-Apr-14 21:51:34

But Poppy if you are a SAHM and your DCs are three, then you haven't got a childcare bill because they get their funding?

Martorana Fri 11-Apr-14 21:52:43

So, you're a SAHM, but you have 3 grand debt for nursery fees. Why is that, exactly? [puzzled emoticon]

wiltingfast Fri 11-Apr-14 21:56:29

I can totally understand where you're coming from. The cash would be much more useful for all of you now, not given to an 18yo who may well do something stupid with it. Also hard to feel pil are ignoring current financial helps they could give if they've got money to throw around.

Years ago, friends of mine put their baby's name on a lottery ticket that won. They were stuck with the consequences of that too. As well as the putting up with the idiocy of it, they had to watch the value of the money shrink totally too, a million isn't worth now what it was in the early 90s.

Anyway, nothing much you can do about it except encourage them to be sensible with it when the time comes.

Polonius Fri 11-Apr-14 21:57:19

Maybe ask them to help you out now? They may simply be unaware that you could do with it.

ENormaSnob Fri 11-Apr-14 21:57:21

Yabu

springlamb Fri 11-Apr-14 21:57:43

My ds (19) has a trust fund, it's rather large actually, and the rest of us are poor as church mice. Generally, we all live like church mice including him.
It is set up with DH and myself on the Trustees. Since ds was 13 he has come along to meetings and been asked for his views on investments (ethical please and low to medium risk). At 18 when he could have taken control of the money himself, he opted to continue with the Trust until his education is completed.
He has a smallish monthly allowance and can request funds for other things. Actually, he frequently forgets he has a Trust and starts to stress about needing to find the money for such and such.

My DCs will inherit a few £k when they're 18 from my parents. It's nothing to do with me though, it's my job to encourage them to be sensible about it.

StickEmUpButDownBelow Fri 11-Apr-14 22:01:03

hi Patsy

I really dont know, it makes me uncomfortable.
I am very unlikely to get anything from anywhere so I can be blase

StickEmUpButDownBelow Fri 11-Apr-14 22:03:21

1 factor is 'have this money but ooooo dont spend it how I dont see fit!'

If I accepted anything it would be under the agreement if I wanted to buy cocaine and plastic surgery that would be okay.

to be beholden to anemone ... nah not me.

Martorana Fri 11-Apr-14 22:03:34

"The cash would be much more useful for all of you now, not given to an 18yo who may well do something stupid with it"

What, like being a SAHM and paying nursery fees you can't afford?

DoJo Fri 11-Apr-14 22:20:55

OP - I think you've queered the pitch a bit by mentioning your debt, which makes it sound as though you would rather they gave you the money to sort out your own finances.

On the basis that you state you do not want this money yourselves, and you are concerned that your kids will go mad with the money, then speak to PILs and ask if there is the potential for it to be 'rolled over' or invested for them until they are older. It sounds like you are getting quite worked up about something which won't happen for years - they might be studious little souls who want to use their money for something sensible.

Aeroflotgirl Fri 11-Apr-14 22:32:39

Yabvvu I am afraid, it's their money to do as they wish, it is for your adult dc to decide what they do with it.

lola88 Sat 12-Apr-14 00:48:50

Seriously? your a SAHM with 3k of nursery fee's so you want the money now but you can pay off the debt in a few months anyway??

What?

NeedsAsockamnesty Sat 12-Apr-14 00:55:11

Yabu.

Very very unreasonable

Am I seriously the only person here who didn't read �3k debt from nursery fees?

I read it as we have a �3k debt from the recent house move (as the op said) AND have to pay nursery fees for three children.

I really don't think they have �3k nursery fees outstanding.

Eminybob Sat 12-Apr-14 03:47:13

OP's words were we have gotten into £3k debt paying nursery fees etc.

I agree with those who say it's not your money, it is nothing to do with you. All you can do is guide your dc to make sensible choices when the time comes.

Mentioning the debt in your op makes it sound like you want to use the money to help with those, which you kind of deny in your subsequent posts, so which is it?

If you are really struggling, and your parents have money (I assume they must be reasonably well off in order to be able to open the trust funds) why don't you just strait out ask them for a handout, rather than trying to procure the money set aside for your dc?

Eminybob Sat 12-Apr-14 03:47:45

Sorry, pil, not parents

Cerisier Sat 12-Apr-14 03:48:26

PIL gift all their DGC money each year, to be used for education or saved. DH and I are educating our DC about personal finance and how to save and invest the money so it earns compound interest for years and becomes a big pot of money. We are keen for them to save it and not spend it.

DD18's school has organised talks on personal finance for the sixth form in PSHCE which DD has found very useful. She was particularly impressed with Andrew Hallam, author of Millionaire Teacher.

EggsFlorentine Sat 12-Apr-14 06:57:21

Sorry but I think it's inappropriate for you to be envious of money intended for your children, clearly their gps intend it to be for the children to decide what to do with when they are older. That said have you asked them for help now?

And I know of people who came into family money in their teens and have nothing to show for it, but part of me says that is their lesson to learn

nooka Sat 12-Apr-14 07:17:19

Sounds totally normal to me. Tax efficient long term savings ready for a time when your children will start to be independent and may need a bit of a leg up. My father had our grandparents do the same in the days when you could set up trust funds (he was an accountant). As the youngest I did pretty well out of it and had potentially a big lump sum, which I used for all my university living expenses. There is no particular reason to assume that all 18 year olds will be foolish with money, or that their parents will be responsible for that matter.

bakingtins Sat 12-Apr-14 07:27:12

Both sets of grandparents pay into child trust funds for our children. It will give them a substantial lump sum at 18. We are already talking to our 7 year old about the expectation that the money is to fund his further/higher education or help him get a foot on the housing ladder.
YABU. It's great that the GPs want to help your kids as they enter adulthood. The "all the money goes to them at 18" is a feature of the available tax-efficient products. I wouldn't want my children to be given so much money that it was a disincentive to them making their own way in the world ( I'm thinking " trustafarian") but from the OP my impression is that we would be talking uni fees or house deposit rather than set up for life with no need to work?
If you want the GPs to help out financially now then that's a seperate issue. They may not know you are struggling. I don't understand why you would get into debt over childcare as a SAHP but that's a seperate issue.

bakingtins Sat 12-Apr-14 07:28:57

Two seperate issues blush must read before posting.

Delphiniumsblue Sat 12-Apr-14 07:31:31

It sounds great to me. 18yrs is when they need the money - you do not need it for their education which is free. I always say on threads where grandparents are showering the children with presents that it would be much better to start a savings fund.

Booboostoo Sat 12-Apr-14 07:32:18

YABU. It's the PIL's money to with as they want, your job is to ensure your kids are mature and responsible at 18 when they inherit the money to do something useful with it. It's not your money to do with as you please, bringing your children up is your financial responsibility seperate from any inheritance your PILs want to leave you or your children.

BarbarianMum Sat 12-Apr-14 07:42:47

My in laws did similar. I insisted that the age that they will come into the money is 21. Eben then, although the cheque will be in their names it is paid via their gran, so she can hang onto it if they are totally off the rails. Also, they are to know nothing about the money til 18 at least.

All sounds v extreme but my db has been a drug adict since age 16. If he'd inherited anything at 18 he'd be dead. Allso (but less extreme) a friend inherited a chunk of money at 18 and frittered it away within a year. 1 just think a couple more yesrs maturity can't be a bad thing.

Suttonmum1 Sat 12-Apr-14 07:44:45

I can sympathise with this. I think in 8-10 years there will be a string of stories about kids blowing CTF/ISA money. Why couldn't these saving schemes have been given the option of passing to the child at 21 rather than 18? Is it possible to ask grandparents to vary the trust fund to pay 25% at 18 and 75% at 21?

Martorana Sat 12-Apr-14 07:47:45

I can't believe people put conditions on a gift. Further proof, if proof be needed, that in laws can never, ever be right.

A deeply depressing thread. And I still want to know how a SAHM of small children can run up a 3 grand debt for nursery fees.

Morgause Sat 12-Apr-14 07:51:04

Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth.

You are being VVU.

My parents did this for our boys and they used the money to buy their first cars. If you bring your DCs up properly of course they will do the sensible thing.

I'm so glad my DiLs aren't like you.

diddl Sat 12-Apr-14 07:51:12

"Aibu to feel a bit weird that my pil have effectively entrusted my dc with large chunks of cash that my dh and I have no say over?"

Yes!

Whatever the kids do with the money won't affect you at all.

BarbarianMum Sat 12-Apr-14 07:57:15

<<If you bring your DCs up properly of course they will do the sensible thing.>>

Long may you believe this and may nothing ever occur to change your smug mind. hmm

Morgause Sat 12-Apr-14 08:01:54

What a charmer you are, Barbarian. Name calling so early.

juneau Sat 12-Apr-14 08:02:37

YABU. It's their money to do with as they wish. At 18 I'd have used a windfall to either buy a car or go travelling (or both - if it's a generous amount of money). Of course, there are no guarantees that your DC won't blow the lot on partying and expensive clothes, but you've got plenty of time to try and dim some sense into them.

As for running up £3k of nursery debt when your a SAHM hmm Might be time to reassess your priorities!

Martorana Sat 12-Apr-14 08:04:51

"<<If you bring your DCs up properly of course they will do the sensible thing.>>

Long may you believe this and may nothing ever occur to change your smug mind. "

Th point is that whether or not the child concerned does the sensible thing with the money or doesn't, it's none of your business. It's between the child and the grandparent- you can't go round imposing conditions on other people. Yes, you may well wish that the terms of the gift were different, but so be it.

WeAreEternal Sat 12-Apr-14 08:15:11

It's all about teaching DCs to be responsible with n

Twighlightsparkle Sat 12-Apr-14 08:16:47

I think 18 is too young.

21 is better, although I understand it probably is for Uni fees.

OP I bet you wish you hadn't mentioned your debt that is completely irrelevant to your main concerns then everyone could actually answer the question you are really posting...

YANBU. We had exactly this issue with fil. Dh doesn't have a good relationship with him so in our case I think it was as much about fil doing something we didn't agree with to piss us off. But we to had very similar concerns that our sons might at best fritter it away and at worst use the money for drugs /motorbikes /get used to a life style they then couldn't sustain so get into significant debt. We just asked that it be given to them when they were older so they had a bit more maturity to use it wisely. Or the experience to decide that actually they wanted to fritter it away but it was a considered choice rather than immaturity leading to them doing something they regret.

Fil was stubborn about it as it was 'his money'. The only way it was resolved is that he got into a degree of financial trouble, nothing serious but so that there wasn't free money to put into accounts for the boys. But thankfully it hasn't amassed into to much by then. What it did show us though is that there was really nothing we could do about it so we resolved instead to keep the money we are saving for our sons future a secret, teach them as well as we can about the value of money and having to work hard for it, and encouraging them to think very carefully about the advantage it could give them at 18.

WeAreEternal Sat 12-Apr-14 08:24:24

It's all about teaching DCs to be responsible with money from a young age.

I also think it it good for the DCs to know about the trust find and to discuss apropriate ways to spend it.
My GPs had trust funds for my siblings and I, as did many of my friends, some knew about the TF but some didn't, of everyone it was more those who didn't know about the money until they turned 18/21 or just before, that spent the money unwisely, because, in my opinion, they hadn't been prepared for suddenly having access to a large amount of money.
Of course a lot of people spend some of it frivolously, but most of the people I knew invested it in property, their education, or cars.

My parents have set up TFs for all of their GCs, and I plan to do exactly what they did and teach DS how to be responsible with money and that the TF is an investment for their fuiture from his GPs.

Andanotherthing123 Sat 12-Apr-14 08:24:53

Ask your PIL to not tell DC about it until they're 21. Sorted. I wish with all my heart I had the same problem as you OP. Yabu.

Suzietastic Sat 12-Apr-14 08:30:07

My children have 2 trust funds, one from my PIL and one from my uncle and aunt. It will be substantial. Both parties consulted my DH & I and we agreed 25 as a good age. I know that sounds extreme but it will be enough to at least buy a house with. I'm not loaded either, probably similar to you but I'm more than happy that my DCs will be taken care of in later years.

When I turned 18 I was left about £10k. It was gone in about 5 months. I think you are right to be worried.

WeAreDetective Sat 12-Apr-14 08:39:24

I think YABU as its their money to leave as they see fit. Moving it down the generations helps avoid tax issues and makes financial sense. As well as being a lovely gesture for their future. It's a shame you have jumped to the negative assumption that your DC will mis spend it, in your view. Is that a control thing?

I am glad that you have cleared up that this has nothing to do with your own debt, which you can easily pay off in a few months anyway. Because your op implied that your pils should give you the money now and not waste it on the kids in the future.

WooWooo Sat 12-Apr-14 08:45:04

YABU. It's the children's money not yours. Also it's a fanatastic way of giving them something for the future that won't get hit by inheritance tax and should get a decent rate of interest.

PunkrockerGirl Sat 12-Apr-14 08:59:51

If you bring your DCs up properly of course they will do the sensible thing

I have just picked myself up off the floor laughing.

(Mum of well brought up 22 & 18 year olds)

ssd Sat 12-Apr-14 09:04:06

tell you what op, if its troubling you so much, give it to my kids, theres no trust fund set up for them, so am sure they'd appreciate a load of unearned money when they are 18

hmm

Morgause Sat 12-Apr-14 09:04:34

I work with young people in that age group and they all seem to have their heads screwed on properly. Most young people have.

dancingnancy Sat 12-Apr-14 09:09:41

I agree 18 could be way too young if it's a fairly large amount. We made wills recently and if husband and I die our children don't get full access to our money until they are around 25.

shewhowines Sat 12-Apr-14 09:10:15

We have invested our children's money in our names. No way are they having a large sum at 18. No matter how sensible they are.

DisgraceToTheYChromosome Sat 12-Apr-14 09:22:05

DD was given about 3K by the GPs when she was born to mature at 18. We told her at 16, and made it plain that we considered her use of it an intelligence test.

Part of it went on spending money for a foreign holiday, some she used as front money for her Avon account, the rest (60%) is still there. Test passed IMO.

However, my niece's ex came into 400K at 21, and it brought out his true character. He bought 2 HIMOs, filled them with Balts and used the remainder on second hand Volvo and caravan. DN was suddenly in a relationship with a premature middle aged slumlord, so she chucked him.

nkf Sat 12-Apr-14 09:28:19

It's their money. I would suggest 21 and I wouldn't keep it secret. Open honest conversations about money. That's the way I'd go. And big thanks to the in laws.

Mimishimi Sat 12-Apr-14 09:44:10

The advantage is compound interest. Maybe they think you are lax with money and want to provide for their GC's precisely because they don't want you spending it.

fairnotfair Sat 12-Apr-14 09:48:45

I would ask them to increase the age to 21, or even 25; they might not be sufficiently mature at 18. (My oldest brother came into a sizeable trust fund at 21, and blew the lot.)

Martorana Sat 12-Apr-14 09:57:41

25? Yep- when they've got through university and are probably settled in their first job.

TheNightIsDark Sat 12-Apr-14 09:58:04

Surely if they blow it all at 18 then a) it's their money and b) it's a valuable life lesson.

My DCs have 2 sets of great grandparents and 2 sets of grandparents putting money away for when they're 18. If that goes on motorbikes, booze and having fun or mortgages, uni and cars it doesn't matter. It's their money to spend as they see fit. Obviously I would rather the sensible options (although no issues with motorbikes) but it's not my place to demand how they spend a gift.

Martorana Sat 12-Apr-14 09:59:02

Pressed send too soon-25, when they might have started to have responsibilities and won't be able to travel at the drop of a hat....

UncleT Sat 12-Apr-14 10:02:09

YABU to relate this in any way to your own financial struggles. If they want to do this for the children then be grateful - many get nothing. On the other hand, I would say that 21 is much better than 18 though, as there's a legitimate concern about having one's head turned by money at that key point in life when decisions about higher education might be made.

DuckWaddle Sat 12-Apr-14 10:11:45

I think it's a great thing they've done. We have had someone set up a trust fund for our dd. just as you say at this stage in life there are lots of bills and debts but I would love to be able to put money aside for my dd's future. This way it's been done but has meant we're not struggling more. It has a massive tax incentive doing it as a trust fund and they have to have access to it at 18. I really feel that at that age most people would have enough sense to use it wisely.

BornFreeButinChains Sat 12-Apr-14 10:20:29

Our PILS have done this too, but we have no knowledge about anything else about it whatsoever....They never give the DC money in bday envelopes or anything like that....a fiver or a tenner, but I strongly think there is a trust or savings account for them.

Our problem is the ties the PILS have to money and the control they seek to use with it.

I will be strongly urging my DC to take any money from them with extreme caution.

If I was GP and had some spare cash for GC I would put it away with a purpose, so I would say, this money comes to you, IF you go to uni...to be released termley to get you through OR if you don't want uni, Then travel, specifically, OR a car OR deposit for flat...but a specific use....

Otherwise, you just have to kiss the money goodbye. Literally. All of you including your DC's.

In your case I think your going to have to simply let it go,,,forget about it....

pretend it does not exisit. BUt I understand your frustration.

PoppySeed2014 Sat 12-Apr-14 10:39:46

Thanks for the replies all...
I shouldn't have mentioned our (small) debt. It's irrelevant really. And we will be out of it by the summer. It is also mainly from our house move.
My dc's pre-school doesn't accept the free 15 hours. Older dc in private school too. All comfortably affordable (with a blip for said house move!)

I think yellowdinosaur got the point I was making. I'm very grateful that my pil have set up a fund. But I wish they'd consulted us and taken our request that the money isn't available at 18 into account.

I'm financially savvy and had a large chunk of savings myself at 18 (partly saved from my own holiday jobs). I'm very much hoping that my dc will be the same, but however much I expect that to be the case there is a CHANCE that one of them at 18 might do something stupid with a large chunk of cash (it looks like it will be 6 figures so really not ok if it is blown or wasted).

We have set up accounts ourselves (isa's in our name) to pay for university fees, travel etc for our dc if/when they need help. However, I really want them to get some sort of part time job in the holidays once they're 16 so they understand what it's like to earn their own money (and because I think it'll be good for them).

Sorry this has been a bit derailed by "nursery fee debt" and some not so veiled private school snearing.

I think I'll just make sure that we start talking to our dc once they're 12 or 13 so they understand the situation and are primed to be sensible!

PoppySeed2014 Sat 12-Apr-14 10:44:37

bornfree I agree with you. While I'm grateful that my pil want to pass money on for the dc, I'd love it if they could either let my dh and I use it for what we think is best for them or give it specifically for university fees/ a deposit once they're 25 or something.

I think the reason I mentioned school fees in the first place was that my mil said that the money will help with their education. Well that's now! They're fully supportive if the dc being in few paying schools (their dc all went to private schools too) so help now would be as useful as at 18 (we can afford fees but would then be able to save more for dc's when over 18).

I also really don't want the dc's to lose incentive to work hard and forge their own careers/lives.

PoppySeed2014 Sat 12-Apr-14 10:45:35

Sorry for crap spelling. On phone etc.

PoppySeed2014 Sat 12-Apr-14 10:49:02

And to those who think I'm a bit controlling... Well, yes!
I have 3 small children. They're happy, loved and well behaved. They currently want to be a farmer, doctor and tree surgeon (my daughter smile). I can't imagine they'll be horrors at 18. But teenagers can be tricky (so I hear!) so I'm just trying to protect them a bit.

Preciousbane Sat 12-Apr-14 10:50:10

I can see why your worried they may waste the lot. My Father died last year and I had a small lump sum and decided to set up an account towards University fees for DS. The best rate was the children's isa but on discussion as they get the cash at 18 I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Hopefully DS will be sensible but the bank staff said they have had parents and grandparents get really upset over what some dc do with their money. But it is theirs to do what they wish with.

I would have saved it as would DH at 18 my SIL and one of my sisters would have blown the lot.

peggyundercrackers Sat 12-Apr-14 11:21:34

I think Yabu, it's only money after all... So what if they spend it all, it's theirs to do what they want with it. Money isn't something precious which should be coveted, it's there to spend and enjoy on whatever you want to spend it on.

If I had have been given a lot of money when I was 18 I would have used to to enjoy life with and done the things I would have liked to do before having to settle down and be responsible for children/house etc. etc.

Mumoftwoyoungkids Sat 12-Apr-14 11:42:23

Both me and my brother got access to a couple of thousand at 18. I used mine sensibly - I still had it 3 years later when I graduated and it helped pay for me and dh's first car.

My brother was far less sensible and it just sort of got spent.

Two children brought up exactly the same. (And had always known about it and been discussed what to do with it.)

The differences as far as I could tell were:-

1. Our birth months. I am August so got the money 6 days after A levels results so was already thinking about leaving home, how to budget etc. Db is October so Uni was still a far off dream for him so he spent the money on socialising as a sixth former. (And I suspect on his friends socialising too - db has always been very generous which is lovely but he can be taken advantage of.)

2. Our parents financial situation. When I turned 18 money was reasonably tight for our parents. 6 months later a distant relative died and left them a life changing amount. By the time db was 18 (he's 2ish years younger) the money had all come through. So while I saw the money in a "wow - such a huge amount, if I blow it I'll never get that much again", db didn't see it as such a big deal.

3. Our innate personalities. People are different.

However, we both learnt from the experience so my parents think it was worth it either way. Db is now very sensible with money as he still remembers feeling rubbish that his money was gone while I was buying a car with mine.

So if a small amount I'd just let them get on with it.

On the other hand a friend of db's inherited a lot of money (£500k or so) while at university. He dropped out and went off to "have fun" with it. He's now early 30s, the money is gone and he's having to start all over again.

So a big amount is more worrying as it has the capacity to wreck a life.

Mumoftwoyoungkids Sat 12-Apr-14 11:44:22

Both me and my brother got access to a couple of thousand at 18. I used mine sensibly - I still had it 3 years later when I graduated and it helped pay for me and dh's first car.

My brother was far less sensible and it just sort of got spent.

Two children brought up exactly the same. (And had always known about it and been discussed what to do with it.)

The differences as far as I could tell were:-

1. Our birth months. I am August so got the money 6 days after A levels results so was already thinking about leaving home, how to budget etc. Db is October so Uni was still a far off dream for him so he spent the money on socialising as a sixth former. (And I suspect on his friends socialising too - db has always been very generous which is lovely but he can be taken advantage of.)

2. Our parents financial situation. When I turned 18 money was reasonably tight for our parents. 6 months later a distant relative died and left them a life changing amount. By the time db was 18 (he's 2ish years younger) the money had all come through. So while I saw the money in a "wow - such a huge amount, if I blow it I'll never get that much again", db didn't see it as such a big deal.

3. Our innate personalities. People are different.

However, we both learnt from the experience so my parents think it was worth it either way. Db is now very sensible with money as he still remembers feeling rubbish that his money was gone while I was buying a car with mine.

So if a small amount I'd just let them get on with it.

On the other hand a friend of db's inherited a lot of money (£500k or so) while at university. He dropped out and went off to "have fun" with it. He's now early 30s, the money is gone and he's having to start all over again.

So a big amount is more worrying as it has the capacity to wreck a life.

Ponkypink Sat 12-Apr-14 11:54:31

Yes YABU. I would be really happy if grandparents did this for my kids. Unfortunately my mum is (relatively for her age group) poor and in negative equity, and ex-parents-in-law are rich but selfish bastards who would rather live in massive houses into their retirement and/or buy second homes in France than help their grandchildren who they believe shouldn't exist because I was not good enough to be shagging their precious son. So no chance. The savings I and their generous but again not rich aunt are able to put together for them may be enough to buy a car or put a deposit on a rental flat, but won't be enough for sodding tuition fees so hoping I can move back to Scotland before then.

3littlefrogs Sat 12-Apr-14 11:57:50

you had better make sure that social services can't take it for care funds if your PIL need care.
There was a case in the press recently where a grandmother had set up savings accounts for her DGC and the local authority were legally able to use it for her care fees.

Itsfab Sat 12-Apr-14 12:00:27

YABU as the money isn't for you.

Surely you should be happy your children are going to be giving a financial start when they are 18.

Our children have lots of savings and a big part has come from FIL. We wouldn't dream of using, or asking to use it, as it is for the children and even if we had kept a track of what we had put in we wouldn't use that portion either. I wouldn't ask FIL if we could use it either as he has given it so isn't his anymore.

You sound resentful that your children are going to have money at 18. Why is that?

lola88 Sat 12-Apr-14 12:07:19

I have to agree with Mumoftwoyoungkids everyone's different my sister and I received 2k each when my granddad passed away I kept mine as I was moving house soon after used it for carpets and blinds and used to rest to pay of things we had bought on credit, my sister had nothing to show for it she spent the lot in a few months on nights out fags and take aways.

We were 23 and 25 at the time both with our own homes and child so not much difference in circumstances

comingintomyown Sat 12-Apr-14 12:20:05

YANBU to have concerns about how your DC might react to a windfall at 18 but YABU to think your PIL should give you the money now instead

CrapBag Sat 12-Apr-14 12:22:54

YABU.

I would love for GPs to do this for our DCs. We put a little away but its not going to be much at all. They will be adults and if they piss it all away that is their choice.

Sounds like you want control of it because you are in debt with nursery fees. That's not your ILs problem to sort out!

dancingnancy Sat 12-Apr-14 12:40:52

Can folk really not see that 18 trolls suddenly having access to perhaps a few hundred thousand could be a bad thing? Would be very worried if my 18 yr old suddenly had that money to play with. Would yo not rather it was held off till they had perhaps been through uni etc?

We really had to think when making our will recently how an amount like that too young might affect our children. You could be doing more damage than good - I don't think some people really think it out.

dancingnancy Sat 12-Apr-14 12:41:45

Yes 18 trolls could do some damage - maybe 18 year olds.

Dawndonnaagain Sat 12-Apr-14 12:52:04

Have pmd you Poppy

PoppySeed2014 Sat 12-Apr-14 13:10:06

Thanks dawndonna Sobering stuff!

Bogeyface Sat 12-Apr-14 13:34:08

I know that if my eldest DS had been given a large sum at 18 it would be gone by now (he is 23) but if DD was given it (she is currently 16) she would treat herself with some, but most she would save for moving out/car/uni etc.

Same with me and my sister, I would have blown it, sis would have saved it.

I would be happier in your position if the trust became available at 18 for further education costs only if needed, but the full amount was not released until they were 25.

Scoffin Sat 12-Apr-14 13:38:53

Haven't read the whole thread, but I work in this area and would make the following comments:
- There is a statutory power for the trustees to advance the trust income to a child's parent or guardian for their 'maintenance, education or benefit' (s31 Trustee Act 1925). This can be expressly excluded by the trust deed, but it rarely is. So for example it is common for trust income to be advanced by trustees to pay children's school fees etc. Obviously you need a big trust fund to produce a worthwhile amount of income, especially at the moment!
- I would be concerned about the children receiving at 18, especially if this is a large sum. I would usually advise that e.g. the children receive at 25, with discretion for the trustees to advance all/some of the capital to the children at 18 if they are mature enough (and thereby getting the inheritance tax benefits of receiving at a younger age).

It might be worth discussing these points with your PIL, although I guess it depends how well you get on with them.

onedogatoddlerandababy Sat 12-Apr-14 13:40:04

My parents are doing similar for my dd's, not a trust find but paying the full isa entitlement for them.

I don't have an issue with me not being able to touch it but I'm also not necessarily happy with it being available at 18, would prefer it to be 21 or 25 as they're likely to be more thoughtful with what they use it for.

Just have to hope I can instil financial responsibility before they get to 18...smile

fuckoffbeaker Sat 12-Apr-14 13:42:42

Seriously? your a SAHM with 3k of nursery fee's so you want the money now but you can pay off the debt in a few months anyway?

this^

Basically you want to take your kids money and squander it on more "stuff" for yourself. The selfishness of people on mumsnet I have seldom seen anywhere else, and that's the honest truth

DS will save his, I'm not so sure about DD.

PoppySeed2014 Sat 12-Apr-14 14:03:43

Fuck off fuckoff and read my comments on the thread grin

PoppySeed2014 Sat 12-Apr-14 14:06:28

What "stuff" do I want to buy?! This isn't about me having the money my pil want to give to my dc. It's about not necessarily wanting them to have a huge fund at 18!

Pondering a life where I bought "stuff" for myself with my dc's money...

PhoebeNPenny Sat 12-Apr-14 14:06:29

The bastard grin Just kidding smile
I can see why it would annoy you (because you have had no say) however you need to see the bigger picture here. Who knows what the future will bring? That trust fund could really help your kiddies. You should feel incredibly grateful (which I'm sure you will eventually).

PoppySeed2014 Sat 12-Apr-14 14:09:27

phoebe I really am grateful. It's lovely that they've done it. I just would feel a lot more grateful if they'd talked it through with my dh (their son!) and me first so we could agree a later age to inherit. But I am grateful.

PhoebeNPenny Sat 12-Apr-14 14:13:43

My husband had a trust fund set up by his gran for when he reached 18. When he was 18 he was a git grin and she pushed it back so he had to be 21 before he got it. Could you not talk to the pils and ask about the age?

Timetoask Sat 12-Apr-14 14:15:20

18 is too young to be entrusted with a large amount of money, I think you PIL have the right intentions but they are not doing your DC a favour by giving them so much money at such a young age.
I would talk to them about how you feel. They are you DC after all.

BornFreeButinChains Sat 12-Apr-14 14:19:30

poppy

anyone receiving any kind of money from anywhere never goes down well on this site, there is a hard core of socialists on here more suited to North Korea....grin

BornFreeButinChains Sat 12-Apr-14 14:21:38

TBH the best age to get any substantial amount of money would be around 30.

and then in 5 year increments up to death grin

roomwithabroom Sat 12-Apr-14 14:34:32

Sounds like the trust funds are ISAs? Most people don't realise when they set these up that the child has complete control of them when they are 18 and nothing you can do to stop it. When we looked at setting a small sum aside each month for our kids I looked at CASH ISAs and ran a mile because of this. As we are putting the money aside I think we should have a say in how it is spent.

It is probably a tax thing, giving the money away now (as long as they don't die in the next few years) avoids inheritance tax.

Do they know you are struggling financially? Would you be able to ask for some help?

I completely disagree with some on here about breaking even for working after nursery fees etc. You might want your children to go to a nursery to help them; good childcare isn't just someone to babysit your children.

Also if you give up your job when you have children you are probably going to want to find another one at some point, try applying for a job when you have children!

NearTheWindymill Sat 12-Apr-14 14:40:00

I think you are being unreasonable. We are almost mid fifties now and our DC are 16 and 19. I was a SAHM and the children went to a private nursery at three for five mornings because we could afford it. There was a state one available if we hadn't been able to afford it and it was just as good but only for 2.5 hours 9-11.30 rather than 9.15 - 12.15 which suited me better and I had a choice.

Our DC have trust funds which will pay them an allowance for university expenses from the age of 18. They will not have access to any capital before they are 25. They were set up by us for tax reasons.

I am sorry to say OP that if our DC were in relationships where a partner did not work and had run up debts relating to child care costs I would be very disappointed and I would make sure that my money was ringfenced to grandchildren rather than squandered on life style choices that were beyond the means of my dc or their partners.

Enjoyingmycoffee Sat 12-Apr-14 14:44:25

*Hit me with it. AIBU?!'

Yes. Very much so.

You have got in to debt, and you would like to use it to pay off your debt.

As for the age at which they get it, communicate with your in laws for goodness sakes. Just ask them to make it 21 or 25. Although at 18, that will pay for university all being well, will it not?

sazzlesb Sat 12-Apr-14 14:57:58

I would also be worried about them blowing it at 18 but think it's a lovely gesture of the GPs.
If they put it all into one discretionary trust, then the trustees (presumably your PIL or maybe yourselves?) will have control over who gets how much which could depend on what they intend to spend it on - might be worth asking how they've set it up. If they have individual ones purely conditional on them reaching 18 there's probably little you can do but trust them!

PoppySeed2014 Sat 12-Apr-14 15:02:11

sigh

I don't want pil to pay off our debts. And our debts are mainly due to a house love and will be cleared by summer.

neartheeindymill I'm a bit offended by what you've read into my posts (although suspect you've just read the op).

We live comfortably and within our means. I had a good, well paid career but am a sahm at the moment because we have three young dc and we can survive with just one income.

It's been really interesting reading the comments but I'm a bit demoralised when people comment and either haven't rtft or have read into my op things that weren't there.

I think I am being a bit ungrateful - it's my terms or I'm not happy. Probably true.

I do think that we need to talk to the pil about extending the age of inheritance or somehow putting conditions on the use of the money.

The idea of 18 year old being given a really huge sum (will be 6 figures) just scares me. Not because I think they'll waste it (although they may) but I'm concerned it will take away their drive to succeed in their own right. And by "suceed" I mean be a surgeon, hairdresser, swimmer, plumber, whatever. It's not about making huge amount of money themselves. But if you don't need to work and you're young it can be hard to motivate yourself (especially as almost all jobs are a bit tough/tedious when you're starting out). Hope that makes sense.

I want my dc to have financial stability but still make their own way in the world.

My best friend inherited enough at 18 to never have to work. She went to university, got a first, bought a house. But she's never found a job she can settle in and because she's got money in trust it doesn't matter. And yet, it does matter! She suffers quite badly with low self esteem because she hasn't earned her own money and never knows what to answer to the inevitable "so what do you do?" questions.

If a job is hard or a bit dull, she leaves. If she didn't have family money at her disposal she wouldn't have that luxary and may well have found her niche by now (out of necessity like most of us!). Anyway, I think that's where lots of my fears come from. Watching her struggling with finding her purpose.

.

LibraryMum8 Sat 12-Apr-14 15:09:11

Yabu. The issues of you being in debt and grandparents providing money for your children are completely separate. How much money are you talking about? Thousands and thousands?

It would be ideal if they saved for uni with it. But you should carry on as if your pil's weren't giving them anything. If they were getting nothing would you still help fund uni? Honestly I'd be thankful they were getting something from their grandparents. Ds is getting nothing and he's not entitled to it, bit I'd be grateful if he did.

LibraryMum8 Sat 12-Apr-14 15:15:35

Sorry just read it will be a large sum. In that case perhaps asking about conditions might not be a bad thing. To be fair to other posters though, when you do read the OP it does sound like you are a bit put off because you have debt and your children will be well off later in life. Again, it's two separate issues. If it were just about setting conditions why was your debt even mentioned? It has no bearing if the post truly is about conditions on their trust.

PoppySeed2014 Sat 12-Apr-14 15:20:16

Yeah, I think I just mentioned out debt because paying the next lot of fees is a struggle for us. But as I've said (repeatedly and boringly) our debt is small and temporary. We wouldn't commit to three lots of school fees if we couldn't afford it ourselves.

I forgot that people often don't read subsequent posts. Ooh, maybe I drip fed?! Lawks! smile

Anyway, bowing out here because I think I get the general consensus and I know what we need to do.

Oh, and can't resist pointing out that (as I said up thread) we are also saving using adult isa's for university fees etc. We don't spend all our money on skiing and champagne. (More like camping and sparkling elderflower)

NearTheWindymill Sat 12-Apr-14 15:35:02

We have 3 dc and are struggling a bit financially. Nothing dreadful but we've got into about £3k debt paying nursery fees etc.

Awfully sorry to have caused you offence but I have read the entire thread and would have had more sympathy had you been working. If you aren't working your DC don't need to be in private pre-school. They simply don't.

As for worrying about your DC not working if they have a trust fund, I know tens of children from very very wealthy backgrounds and it doesn't seem to stem their ambition at all. Our DC expect to work for a living. What financial security does buy, however, is the choice to realise dreams and that's something neither their father nor I had. We just had to get our noses down and earn it.

PoppySeed2014 Sat 12-Apr-14 15:46:58

nearthewindymill thank you for your advice. I'll email all the parents at my dc's pre-school to explain that their children don't need to be there if a parent is at home hmm

Or you might consider that pre-school education is a positive thing? None of my dc were in childcare nurseries because I was at home. So I did the care. But after 2, they all went a few mornings a week in term time. Bizarrely, they love(d) it and we think it's a good thing.

And we can afford it normally. By the summer we'll be fine.

Ack, why am I bothering to argue?

Better go upstairs now to riad piggy banks to buy some Prestat truffles smile

delusionindex Sat 12-Apr-14 15:50:59

So to summarise the OP...

My partner and I have mismanaged our finances.

My in laws want to set some money aside for our children at some point in the future and have structured this arrangement in such a way that my partner and I cannot be involved in managing the money.

I cannot see the connection between these two things.

NearTheWindymill Sat 12-Apr-14 15:55:17

Well at the moment you can't afford it; and it's provided by the state.

You are being incredibly defensive for somebody so wholly in the right you know.

Mothergothel99 Sat 12-Apr-14 16:05:21

Wow, OP your mentioning the debt you have, can only be because you think that the money should be either given to you, or you should decide how their inheritance is spent (on preschool fees)

They are entirely right to keep you out of the equation. If they blow it, they blow it. If your thinking of spending it on nursery fees then you would squander it all by the time they are 18 anyway.

Martorana Sat 12-Apr-14 16:10:53

How the other half lives, eh? grin

Booboostoo Sat 12-Apr-14 17:08:03

I think you are just adding things to your OP to make more sense of this.

If you are worried about the age simply talk to the PILs and see if the money can be released later on or in stages.

Your children will need a lot more than a six figure sum to never have to work in their lives! While a six figure sum is a huge amount of money, you need exhorbitant amounts of money not to have to work. Effectively you need a capital which in a conservative inverstment produces an interest, after taxes, equal to the wage you would like to be earning - that is a lot of money. I doubt this is a serious worry therefore.

Temporarily being in debt to the sum of 3k knowing you can pay it off within a few months, arranged purely to finance a house move that presumably will benefit all the family is hardly being financially irresponsible ffs! I'm certainly very happy with my own decision to take out a loan of 25k to enable us to move 5 years ago which we've recently paid off. It meant we could buy a fantastic house for life at a bargain price and we've tightened our belts a bit topay it off. Presumably the same as the op is planning.

I bet the op is kicking herself for mentioning this small debt because it has meant that most people have got on their bloody high house and missed the point.

Viviennemary Sat 12-Apr-14 17:25:08

I think saving money in a Trust for grandchildren is a completely different thing from paying off family debts. So I don't think your in laws are doing anything wrong. But I can see why you are a bit peeved as you probably think the money could be made use of now.

ElkTheory Sat 12-Apr-14 17:27:55

YABU. Your PILs are adults, they can decide what to do with their own money. Your children will be adults when they receive the money and can make their own decisions as well. If they spend it all on frivolous items, there is nothing you can do about it.

I think it is very generous of your PILs to provide this money for their grandchildren. IMO it would be unreasonable of you to think you should control this gift in any way.

whatever5 Sat 12-Apr-14 18:51:32

YABU to expect your PIL to let you decide how their money should and shouldn't be spent.

I can understand why you wouldn't want your children to have the money at 18 though. Perhaps you could discuss this with your PIL to see if the age could be raised.

dancingnancy Sat 12-Apr-14 19:13:25

It's a bit like an 18 yr old wining the lottery. There seems to be many sad stories when that happens. The PIL's haven't really thought through the whole implications and how they could be doing more harm than good. My PIL did this. Has the great idea of signing their house over in a three way spit between my two kids (their only GC) and their daughter who has no children. We had to sit them down and explain how unfair this was and instead of being a good thing could leave their children arguing and bitter - not what they had wanted at all.

clam Sat 12-Apr-14 19:17:07

My parents and ILs both set up funds for my DC. We didn't tell them about it for years, until we had to. They are appreciative of it, but in no rush to spend any of it. Thankfully.

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