to be absolutely seething with male friend

(45 Posts)
megamuffin Mon 24-Mar-14 11:34:32

I was with friends at the weekend watching an episode from a popular tv series in which a woman was fighting off a rapist. It was very uncomfortable to watch so I went out to the kitchen saying 'can you imagine how scared you would be if you was getting raped'.

One of the blokes then piped up and had the following to say (its not word for word but its a good as I recall)

Bloke - oh I just wouldn't be raped.

Me- what?

Bloke - I just wouldn't get raped.

Me- well what if they're stronger then you?

Bloke- No sorry I just don't see how a woman can get raped if she really didnt want to. I dont see how a man can hold her down, get her trousers off and do all that if she was trying to get away.

Me-(very shocked) Are you for real? Im sure I can arrange for you to ask a rape victim, theres millions of them...

He quickly turned down my offer and I left very soon after. AIBU to be shocked at his ignorance and want to punch him in the face repeatedly?! Needless to say, I do not want to be friends with people who hold such views!

AnyFucker Mon 24-Mar-14 11:35:32

What a tool

ArtexMonkey Mon 24-Mar-14 11:37:16

Idiot. I bet other people were mentally agreeing with you but didn't have the bollocks to say so.

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Mon 24-Mar-14 11:37:34

What an utter twat. If Mike Tyson decided he wanted a piece of your friend's anus then he would be taking it regardless of whether he wanted bumsex or not. It sounds like your friend is quite thick. Most people with sense realise that being overpowered by someone larger than you (and possibly armed) is entirely feasible.

UnicornCrisps Mon 24-Mar-14 11:37:52

What a fucking idiot.

UnicornCrisps Mon 24-Mar-14 11:39:23

It's not even about physical strength, it's easy to just freeze with fear.

SavoyCabbage Mon 24-Mar-14 11:40:03

How can he think that? Does he really think he is stronger than every person in the whole world?

Pigletin Mon 24-Mar-14 11:44:14

I really hope he doesn't have to find out either first hand or via a close relative that rape can happen to anyone (even him).

How old is he - this sounds like the opinion of a smug know-it-all teenager...although most teenagers are smarter than that.

KatnipEvergreen Mon 24-Mar-14 11:44:28

Sadly I think these views are rather common, among women and rape trial juries as well. Especially when the victim has frozen with fear and was not able to fight.

It's kind of a defence mechanism and distancing "This wouldn't happen to me, I would fight back. I am not like that victim. " But a very damaging view when it comes to getting rape convictions.

megamuffin Mon 24-Mar-14 11:45:40

He seemed quite smart with a good job etc. It shocked me because I've never met anyone with the same views and I can't stop thinking about it. Its just made me so angry as up until now I regarded him as a lovely person to be around.

spongebob13 Mon 24-Mar-14 11:46:41

exactly UnicornCrisps. some people have no filter. its ridiculous. its a lot more common and how was he to know it never happened anyone belonging to him or you. I hate that. I don't wanna say "oi I know what I'm talking about" when I hear stuff like that, like when MIL mentioned that "they were probably asking for it" discussing a case at the kitchen table before. I just had to get up and leave.

though am feeling invisible seeing as I mentioned I was raped before in a previous thread and it was totally ignored, having a bad day

megamuffin Mon 24-Mar-14 11:47:22

It's not a teenagers views, he's mid twenties.

NeonMuffin Mon 24-Mar-14 11:48:29

He's a dick, but views like that are not uncommon sadly. I've even heard women make similar comments.

AnyFucker Mon 24-Mar-14 11:49:51

Give some people some rope, they hang themselves

Or, when someone tells you what they are, believe them

Was this friend a potential romantic interest, OP ? I recommend you drop him like a hot potato forthwith either way

Coffeethrowtrampbitch Mon 24-Mar-14 11:52:25

What a dick. Hope he keeps his awful opinion to himself in future, I would try not to see him very much if that is what he really thinks.

spongebob I'm so sorry sad

spongebob13 Mon 24-Mar-14 11:56:09

coffethrowtrampbitch thank u thanks I probably sound attention seeking but seeing as only my partner knows in rl its hard to keep bottled sometimes.

Saltysnack Mon 24-Mar-14 11:58:11

Spongebob, I'm really sorry for what happened to you. And that your relatives make comments like that, how depressing. I find it hard to understand how anybody, man or woman, can pretend not to understand the gulf in physical strength between men and women.

When it nearly happened to me, it was still an eye opener as to how quickly it could have happened, and powerless I was to stop it. He knew exactly what he was doing in terms of where to position my arms and his body sad. My flatmate arrived home and that put him off thank goodness

OP, your friend is a tool. Try to educate him though, you'll be doing him a favour

MrsMcEnroe Mon 24-Mar-14 12:00:39

spongebob I'm very sorry that happened to you. Are you OK? (Daft question but I hope you know what I mean) x

megamuffin well done for challenging his appalling viewpoint! Hopefully he will go away and think long and hard about his attitude to rape ...

AnyFucker Mon 24-Mar-14 12:02:59

sponge I am sorry that happened to you and that it was missed on a previous thread

my MIL (who I usually love to pieces) is a fucking PITA when it comes to all the cases recently about historic sex abuse eg. J Savile

she says stuff like "in my day you just got on with it, it's normal for men to grope young girls, they have always done it and it is ridiculous to complain about it now"

grrr

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen Mon 24-Mar-14 12:04:39

And of they had a gun or a knife?hmm

Twatangry

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen Mon 24-Mar-14 12:04:54

If

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen Mon 24-Mar-14 12:05:57

Spongethanks

PlumProf Mon 24-Mar-14 12:09:55

Dame don't go down that route. Of course women are raped where there is no knife or gun. Nobody should doubt that for a moment.

I have been witness to a trial where the only defence was exactly as the OP describes: you can't force someone who doesn't want to. Hopefully barristers are not allowed to say such patently stupid things any more. This one was trying to give the analogy of a penny and a bottle, saying that if you were holding a bottle and someone else was trying to put a penny in it then they would never manage if you didn't let them. UNbelievable.

KatnipEvergreen Mon 24-Mar-14 12:10:15

I naively put myself in a position where I could have been raped, once when I was 17, just out of being too polite/unassertive and getting myself in a position where I was alone, overnight with someone being persistent in their attentions, let's say. Luckily he did stop pestering me after I kept telling him to leave me alone, and a firmly zipped up sleeping bag helped

spongebob13 Mon 24-Mar-14 12:10:55

thanks guys now feel little blush anyfucker u described my mil to a tee. happened years ago while in a relatioship hence why told no one didnt even think it was that til I told dp. anyways u were right to stand up to him op.

PlumProf Mon 24-Mar-14 12:11:35

Sponge thanks The bad days will get fewer and further between, I promise.

kentishgirl Mon 24-Mar-14 12:11:54

By your 'friend's' logic no one should ever get mugged either. Just don't hand it over.

Yuk. I hope he went home and thought about it a little bit. That would put me right off him. He thinks raped women actually wanted sex with their attackers? What a vile man he has shown himself to be.

Sponge - I'm so sorry for what happened to you. It must be incredibly difficult to deal with stupid comments.

FairPhyllis Mon 24-Mar-14 12:14:41

This is how misogyny is able to flourish. Because misogynists aren't caricature types you can see a mile off. They can be well-educated, intelligent grown-up people with good jobs and nice friends.

That guy is actually quite dangerous because he presumably doesn't even subscribe to the "overpowered by a stranger" idea of rape that even quite a lot of people with questionable ideas about rape will accept as "legitimate".

So he basically doesn't even think that rape exists. I would give him a very wide berth.

Blithereens Mon 24-Mar-14 12:19:03

What a douchenozzle. Into the friend bin with him.

I had one who said, 'Well, that's what you get when you move to New York' when we were watching a programme about Madonna and she talked about being raped there.

He's an ex-friend now, for obvious reasons.

Unfortunately my mum is exactly as Anyfucker describes her MIL. Makes it very difficult to be around her sometimes sad

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen Mon 24-Mar-14 12:25:11

Plum-I was saying strength has nothing to do with anything. My point being that this twat may think he can over power anyone because he's a 'big strong man' but if someone is armed or built like Mike Tyson he has no chance.

I'm not sure what's wrong with saying thatconfused

AnyFucker Mon 24-Mar-14 12:25:28

smile @ douchenozzle

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen Mon 24-Mar-14 12:26:49

I certainly wasn't doubting women get raped without a gun or knife, of course they do!

runningonwillpower Mon 24-Mar-14 12:33:50

The OP's friend's view is called, 'can't thread a moving needle'.

Doesn't need clarification.

But it also doesn't need saying that it's a weird point of view. All rapists had willing victims? Or the victims just didn't fight hard enough?

The OP's friend has - at the very least - a serious lack of empathy.

At worst - I don't know.

KatnipEvergreen Mon 24-Mar-14 12:37:11

Slight diversion but I had an 'interesting' conversation with someone once, a bit of an old boy if I'm honest. I don't know how we got onto the topic but he asked me if I could come back in another life and choose whether to be a man or a woman, which would I choose.

I said that while I would be quite curious to know what it's like to be a man, for a few months, say, that I was comfortable and happy with being a woman and would on balance choose this. This bamboozled him, he then launched into an argument about how men are so completely superior in every way and women are so unfortunate in their lot, and just couldn't accept that I would ever choose to be a woman!

PlumProf Wed 26-Mar-14 12:51:05

Dame smile I thought you were but just wanted to disambiguate in case anyone reading the thread got the impression that we accept some men's view that only rape by a stranger with a weapon is "real" rape. We are on the same page.

SuffolkNWhat Wed 26-Mar-14 13:09:20

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fluffyraggies Wed 26-Mar-14 13:27:07

While my DH does not think a woman can easily avoid rape or easily fight back etc, he seems to be adamant that he himself is somehow impossible to rape confused

We've had this convo a couple of times now. He insists that even out numbered he ''just would rather die than be raped, and no one would be able to rape him''.

I realise it's bluster and a fear of accepting his own vulnerability talking, but an odd mind set, and not something you hear woman say IME.

Anyway, YANBU in thinking your friend is stupid, and/or a bigoted idiot OP.

CailinDana Wed 26-Mar-14 13:31:24

When I told my mum I was sexually abused by a family friend as a child she described being sexually assaulted by her cousin and implied it happens to alm girls and we have to accept it and move on. That is why she will never be allowed to look after my children on her own.
Not that it's an excuse but women of her generation were taught to expect and stay silent about sexual assault. Heck up to not so long ago once you signed the marriage register you signed away all rights to your own body sad.

One ex friend said women sexually assault men by wearing revealing clothes.

CailinDana Wed 26-Mar-14 13:36:12

Even good men often don't examine the shit they're fed about rape. A lovely male friend of mine tried to defend the whole "women shouldn't wear revealing clothes" bs recently but totally changed his view once we talked about it.

whichdidyouchoose Wed 26-Mar-14 13:50:49

When I told my mother about her uncle stroking my bottom when I was sat on his lap she seemed to think it was ok.

Frizzbonce Wed 26-Mar-14 14:16:56

AF maybe your MIL was groped or worse when she was younger and it's the only way she can deal with it - by talking a load of trivialising shite. My late mother used to say awful stuff like: 'Don't go out and get yourself raped.' When I was mugged one night she asked me why I hadn't 'given him a good karate kick.' Unfuckingbelievable. I said I was a) frozen with fear and b) had never done karate in my life.

Eatriskier Wed 26-Mar-14 15:26:31

Does that mean that no one would get murdered/abducted/etc if they really didn't want to, because otherwise you'd fight really hard to get away hmm

Mumoftwoyoungkids Wed 26-Mar-14 16:04:24

I have been in very high stress situations six times in my life. (That I can think of.) For two of them I reacted brilliantly - the sort of reaction that had I sat down calmly and thought of it would have taken me days to ink of. For the other four I reacted terribly! Did the wrong thing completely. Even when I knew exactly what I should be doing. (Steer into the skid.)

For reasons that I don't understand your brain doesn't always do the calm sensible thing when you are really scared.

The thing is - I have led what is a pretty charmed life. No serious illnesses or injuries to me or my family.

So if I can think of 6 such occasions - the average person must have more of these.

So why can't they equate the time when the boiler blew up and they tried to catch the water in a teacup rather than turn the stop cock off with the fact that someone being raped may be frozen with fear.

AnyFucker Wed 26-Mar-14 22:25:08

I know, Frizz. This is why I am still able to keep a civil tongue in my head when she starts spouting such shite (also, she is otherwise kind, warm and lovely)

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