To think etiquette should be taught at school?

(113 Posts)
Pedantichag Tue 18-Mar-14 20:15:38

What has happened to basic manners? Hmmmmm? Anyone have any idea where they've gone? Most people I've encountered recently seem to have lost theirs.

TheresLotsOfFarmyardAnimals Tue 18-Mar-14 20:18:07

Yabu. Parents should teach their children manners, reinforced by teachers and other responsible adults. Teachers arent responsible for everything!!

WorraLiberty Tue 18-Mar-14 20:20:44

Yet another thing for the school to teach??

Parents need to teach their kids manners

The schools need to reinforce it

TheEmpress Tue 18-Mar-14 20:21:01

Etiquette should be taught in the home...

phantomnamechanger Tue 18-Mar-14 20:21:09

basic manners should be taught first and foremost in the home by the primary caregiver/s, from as young as poss - we modelled saying thank you, DCs learnt it too. We model apologising when you accidentally hurt someone, DC do it too.

teachers have enough to do without having to undo 4 years of never being expected to say please/thank you/excuse me/sorry etc etc

I have been quite shocked at some of the incredibly low expectations parents have of their DC at age 3/4, babyfying them and saying aw shucks, they don't know any better. hmm

BullieMama Tue 18-Mar-14 20:21:51

Just drop them off at school on the way home from hospital and we will give them back at 18 all ready for you.

FGS take responsibility for your creation - its the parents job backed up by society to set the the standards.

Pedantichag Tue 18-Mar-14 20:21:57

Oh I absolutely agree but some parents clearly don't bother wink

Euphemia Tue 18-Mar-14 20:22:10

That's the parents' job. What would you like us to stop teaching, in order to make up for parental neglect?

YABU

Pedantichag Tue 18-Mar-14 20:24:35

Bullie

My 'creations' have impeccable manners.

Skivvywoman Tue 18-Mar-14 20:26:21

I'm pretty sure that's the parents job!

Pedantichag Tue 18-Mar-14 20:26:27

Euphemia

Compulsory after school club springs to mind.

Euphemia Tue 18-Mar-14 20:27:10

Compulsory after school club for whom?

CrohnicallyChanging Tue 18-Mar-14 20:27:56

worra that was my thought too.

We had a conversation at work today because there just aren't enough hours in the day. I work with year 1 children. We need to teach children to read and wrote, we do this via a phonics programme. But this doesn't give children the breadth of experience that good books do, so we need to fit in additional book based literacy lessons. We can't let numeracy slide because enough children leave school without knowing the basics (eg budgeting). Then we have to do extra PE because so many children don't do enough exercise so schools are trying to fit in more. We still need to teach them science, history, geography, RE and ICT. Not to mention art and music. We've kind of combined some of those lessons to save time so we can't shave any more minutes off those subjects.

Our school has now identified that the children's grammar is somewhat behind, so we need to fit in specific grammar lessons to get them up to speed. And we cannot see where we are going to fit this in!

Pedantichag Tue 18-Mar-14 20:28:45

Pupils?

CrohnicallyChanging Tue 18-Mar-14 20:28:47

Read and write of course (darn autocorrect)

Finola1step Tue 18-Mar-14 20:29:14

OP, is your name in rl Michael?

Pedantichag Tue 18-Mar-14 20:30:09

Finola

Yes!!!! You've outed me.

CrohnicallyChanging Tue 18-Mar-14 20:32:02

If it's a compulsory after school club, won't that just mean an extension to school hours?

Who is going to staff these 'clubs'? Teachers already teach the maximum they can and still be a standard working week.

phantomnamechanger Tue 18-Mar-14 20:33:05

some parents clearly don't bother - true, but sometimes it's those same parents who have never taught a child to do basic counting/singing/naming of colours and animals, never let them paint/ draw or use scissors, and have allowed them to snatch/shove siblings, swear and tantrum........schools have a massive amount to catch up, to prepare children for learning. They cannot afford to waste time on lessons in manners, though if you do some classroom observation you will see good manners (hopefully) being modelled/expected all the time eg taking turns, being respectful of other peoples things, not interrupting, not calling out, saying please and thank you, not using bad language. I have worked in schools that had special "nurture groups" where the children with the poorest social skills were taken out for some experiences that would benefit them - sometimes as simple as sitting at a table with adults learning how to use cutlery.

Pedantichag Tue 18-Mar-14 20:34:11

All schools have after school clubs do they not?

WooWooOwl Tue 18-Mar-14 20:36:14

Schools already teach manners, but when it isn't reinforced at home, it's not going to transfer into life outside of school.

IME, there are lots of children that think that things like putting your knife and fork together at the end of a meal or saying 'excuse me' when you burp are school rules rather than real life etiquette.

BabyMummy29 Tue 18-Mar-14 20:37:51

Manners should be taught by parents. I'm fed up with people having kids and then absolving themselves of any further responsibility for them. Schools are now expected to give kids breakfast, toilet train them and brush their teeth.

Silly me - I thought I spent 4 years training to be a teacher so that I could teach, not become a substitute parent.

WooWooOwl Tue 18-Mar-14 20:38:21

And no, not all schools have after school clubs.

Pedantichag Tue 18-Mar-14 20:38:22

WooWooOwl

That's the most depressing thing I've heard all day

confused

Finola1step Tue 18-Mar-14 20:38:34

It's ok Mike, your secret is safe with me. Just be careful out there.

dementedma Tue 18-Mar-14 20:39:53

Oh, I do love a man with nice manners.
And no, I can't reconcile it with being a feminist but a chap who opens a car door for me is always going to be on a winner......

I had an Eastern European student once who got soaked holding his umbrella over me in the rain as he escorted me back to my car......melts
<expects to be flamed>

phantomnamechanger Tue 18-Mar-14 20:40:05

pedant - not all schools have after school clubs as in childcare, no. many have lots of voluntary clubs run by staff - DSs primary has loads of sports, choir, recorder group, photography club, green gang and others - all run voluntarily by staff and a few by parents

Pedantichag Tue 18-Mar-14 20:40:06

WooWooOwl

Re after school clubs. I did not know that. All the ones in our wider area do.

TiggyCBE Tue 18-Mar-14 20:40:56

Like addressing letters to married women by their husband's name? That's ettyket but people don't seem to like it on here.

Pedantichag Tue 18-Mar-14 20:41:47

Phantom

Yes, those were the ones meant.

phantomnamechanger Tue 18-Mar-14 20:42:03

pedant - depressing? why? every year our school does a parent survey and there is just not enough demand for pre or after school wrap around care to make it possible

cardibach Tue 18-Mar-14 20:42:33

Why are you depressed that not all schools have after school clubs?

AntlersInAllOfMyDecorating Tue 18-Mar-14 20:43:25

Great. I'll just stick that on top of first aid, sex ed, budgeting, citizenship, child rearing, morals, programming and whatever else I am supposed to squeeze in...

Parents might as well just hand them over full-time... oh wait, there's already a word for that.

Pay up if you want extras. YABU.

phantomnamechanger Tue 18-Mar-14 20:44:04

sorry x-posts - confused about clubs after school and afterschool clubs !

WooWooOwl Tue 18-Mar-14 20:44:05

It is depressing, I agree.

Are you referring to after school club as in childcare, or after school extra curricular clubs?

I'd have thought that most schools have extra curricular clubs, but they will often be run by outside agencies doing things like French or football. Loads of schools don't have what I know as 'after school club' that parents can use as childcare, and lots don't have any teacher led free or very low cost clubs.

cardibach Tue 18-Mar-14 20:45:21

Aaah, I see. You are depressed that already overworked teachers are not working for free after school to keep your little darlings occupied, and also want to add an extra thing for them to teach confused
What do you want parents to do? How many unpaid hours do you do?

Pedantichag Tue 18-Mar-14 20:45:31

No, I'm depressed at WooWooOwls post prior to that one.

Although, after school clubs are not as far as I'm concerned a bad thing.

stillenacht Tue 18-Mar-14 20:47:31

I am a secondary school music teacher. I JUST WANT TO TEACH MUSIC!!! Not pshe, not budgeting, not work skills, not careers, not learning skills etc etc Just music please!!!!!!!confused

Goblinchild Tue 18-Mar-14 20:48:26

I have beautiful manners, good posture and a lovely standard English accent with excellent grammar. grin.
However many parents would take exception if I attempted to make any of my rules of etiquette standard for their children.
So it would have to be optional, how to speak proper and which spoon to use and the correct order of people to offer your seat to. Which means you'd be likely to be teaching those that already knew.
We had deportment and elecution lessons in one of my private secondary schools. Luvverly.

morethanpotatoprints Tue 18-Mar-14 20:48:41

I think parents should be more responsible and teach their children good manners, not necessarily etiquette though.

daytoday Tue 18-Mar-14 20:48:41

Is this a joke? Good manners should be taught at home! Of course it's reinforced at school but really? On the curriculum?

Silly.

Pedantichag Tue 18-Mar-14 20:49:08

Cardi

Free? We pay for all extracurricular activities, I wasn't aware schools offered these free.

Finola, I'm very publicly displaying how out of touch I am that I'm outing myself left right and centre.

Martorana Tue 18-Mar-14 20:50:06

Basic manners should be taught at home and reinforced by school. "Etiquette" is something different. I teach my children very old fashioned posh manners- on the principle that if they "know", for example, how to eat asparagus they can always choose not to eat it that way, but there might come a time when it might be useful for them to know how the dinosaurs do things.....and they can choose to do it the dinosaur way! In the same way that if I could speak French, I would teach them French.

Goblinchild Tue 18-Mar-14 20:50:49

Most clubs and after-school activities run by the teachers are free OP.

Pedantichag Tue 18-Mar-14 20:51:14

Goblinchild

Oooh, books on heads by any chance?

I'm getting all in a happy fluster at the thought.

Pedantichag Tue 18-Mar-14 20:52:02

Goblinchild

Nope, not in any of our local schools.

Goblinchild Tue 18-Mar-14 20:52:07

Dinosaurs ate asparagus?
Who knew? Other than Martorana. smile

Ericaequites Tue 18-Mar-14 20:52:11

In the States, people say how lucky mums are that their children have nice manners. It's a lot of work and saying, "What do you say?" Fathers help also.

stillenacht Tue 18-Mar-14 20:52:14

Pedant

All the clubs we run as a music dept are free: orchestra, wind band, 3 choirs, string and wind ensembles and a ukulele club... We don't get an extra penny for them either.

CrohnicallyChanging Tue 18-Mar-14 20:59:33

Yes, a lot of schools have after school staff.

They are either staffed by teachers voluntarily, or by parents, or by additional staff.

If you made after school clubs compulsory, so every child had to stay every day, I think the supply of voluntary teachers would dry up or at the very least not be enough. Likewise with parents. Volunteering (as in putting yourself forward) for one afternoon a week is very different to being asked to do it every day for no pay.

So that leaves additional staff. Are these to be qualified teachers, or will unqualified staff do? Who is going to pay for them? School budgets are rather tight, but then if you ask parents to pay for a compulsory club then you are undermining their right to a free education for their child. I imagine that in the real world, schools would hire as many unqualified staff as possible, during the school day as well, spreading the qualified teachers even more thinly. But then if the children aren't being taught by qualified and experienced teachers, standards may well slide, leading to more teaching input being required and an even longer school day... Where would it stop?

TruffleOil Tue 18-Mar-14 21:09:55

My children seem to have no idea how to pass through doors. Why?

Goblinchild Tue 18-Mar-14 21:11:36

The joy of an after school club is usually that you have children who really want to be there, and if they are being vile and disruptive, you can just tell them that they are no longer a member. Bliss.

kim147 Tue 18-Mar-14 21:12:26

All you need to know about etiquette

www.debretts.com/

Off to have a look - covers weddings, invitations etc.

CrohnicallyChanging Tue 18-Mar-14 21:15:31

truffleoil I've noticed this a lot with children at our school. If they're walking through a door and it swings shut, they will often walk face first into it rather than put their hands up to stop the door/push it open again. Or sometimes they will miss the door completely and walk into the door frame. How do they do it?

kim147 Tue 18-Mar-14 21:16:28

Debrett's Office guide

Keep up with the tea round and know when it's your turn.

Ask before borrowing anything; make sure it stays borrowed and doesn't drift into possession.

Keep your desk tidy and don't spill over into someone else's space.

Ask before opening the window, tuning down the air conditioning etc.

Who's responsible for remembering birthdays? Often no one, so keep an eye on the calendar.

Acknowledge other big occasions in a colleague's life: weddings, pregnancy etc.

Limit personal calls and mobile talk. Turn your phone onto silent.

Equally, limit your time on Facebook and Twitter.

Share sweets and treats from time to time.

Don't eat stinky meals at your desk.

I think they should post on AIBU grin

Pedantichag Tue 18-Mar-14 21:40:24

Stillenact

Commendable and what brilliant and enviable options.

Martorana Wed 19-Mar-14 10:00:10

"Dinosaurs ate asparagus?
Who knew? Other than Martorana. "

Yep. And they never used a knife and fork. Which they never called cutlery.

winklewoman Wed 19-Mar-14 10:21:16

kim147, the Debrett's list is rather a let down for weddings. Not a single example is given of a poem asking for money.

cory Wed 19-Mar-14 10:31:56

Ime schools spend a lot of time teaching children basic manners: sharing and taking your turn, sitting quietly and listening when somebody else is speaking, asking nicely for things and not pushing and shoving, apologising when you have accidentally hurt somebody. They couldn't get through the school day without teaching that.

Etiquette is more tricky because it is not one fixed universal thing. The middle class etiquette I have been taught and have observered among my MC friends misses out several items that are de rigeur among some of the more working class mums I know. If I hadn't quickly learnt to observe them I'd be thought rude. Otoh some other habits of mine that dh and I would regard as essential etiquette are so class bound that they would seem stuck up and eccentric to somebody from a different background- as if I insisted on my child curtseying to his teacher because I was taught this in another country.

So whose etiquette goes?

SamandCat Wed 19-Mar-14 10:50:48

I think teachers should model good manners( which they don't always) and correct and talk about lapses as the subject comes up (as should all adults working with children), but I don't think it is something you sit down and have formal lessons in.That would be bizarre

kim147 Wed 19-Mar-14 10:53:10

Well - do we teach "pardon" or "what"?

And when does good manners become patronising?

TruffleOil Wed 19-Mar-14 10:58:22

Chronically I often just watch the children passing through doors at our school and it seems like maybe 5% of them (NOT MINE) seem to understand how to deal with doors.

I would fully appreciate any teacher telling them off for any door infraction. Thank you teachers.

cory - curtseying! Now that would be something! Aside from this - surely children don't have class-based etiquette?

SamandCat Wed 19-Mar-14 11:01:19

..and good manners is about having consideration and kindness .
I know lots of cliquey bitches.Whi would never a please, thankyou or excuse me;

Martorana Wed 19-Mar-14 11:01:49

"Otoh some other habits of mine that dh and I would regard as essential etiquette are so class bound that they would seem stuck up and eccentric to somebody from a different background"

That's what I mean by teaching the "etiquette-y" stuff separately.it's like learning a language- it's potentially useful to know, but you don't have to speak it. But if you ever find yourself in that country, you will be glad you can drag the words out from the back of your memory.

but never "pardon"; shudder

BuzzardBird Wed 19-Mar-14 11:01:57

Well when we have all been brought up to apologise for not smoking when someone asks us for a cigarette I think we are doing ok manners wise? grin

anklebitersmum Wed 19-Mar-14 11:06:47

Don't they sell etiquette in Waitrose any more?

princessalbert Wed 19-Mar-14 11:11:32

It shouldn't be taught in school. Surely the teachers have enough to do already.

Parents should be teaching their children good manners. Table manners are my particular bug bear.

Martorana Wed 19-Mar-14 11:12:38

You're thinking of quinoa, anklebiter......

SamandCat Wed 19-Mar-14 11:17:53

or Kitekat

anklebitersmum Wed 19-Mar-14 11:25:38

grin Martorana

You have to have a table to eat at to have table manners. Sat-on-the-sofa-in-front-of-the-telly-eating-off-a-tray-using-just-a-fork-watching-Hollyoaks manners are very different apparently wink

kentishgirl Wed 19-Mar-14 12:10:26

I'm in my 40s and I still manage to walk into door frames sometimes.

Basic manners of please, thank you, waiting your turn, table manners etc are learned or not from their families. They can be insisted on at school as well, but whether the children then take them elsewhere if it's not part of their homelife, I don't know.

I can't believe how many grown adults eat like pigs. And teach their children to eat like pigs. I feel sorry for those children - it is a social (and career) handicap.

Etiquette is another matter. It's very class/culture variable.

EasterHoliday Wed 19-Mar-14 12:16:22

we had etiquette lessons after A levels had finished but school hadn't broken up. The one on how to get out of a sports car without flashing my pants has been invaluable (not). They brought along a cardboard sportscar frame / door to assist our practice.

lainiekazan Wed 19-Mar-14 12:23:01

I went to a village school in the 1970s - the full range of society was there.

We all sat at tables for lunch and all had to adhere to the strictest table manners. No holding knives like a pen, etc etc. If the Headmaster caught anyone with elbows on the table he'd stride over and swipe them off. The atmosphere wasn't stultifying, it was all good humoured.

Now, every single child, no matter what their background or circumstances, left that school with A1 manners.

I see some appalling manners from children which must be learnt from their boorish parents. Letting doors swing in your face and my number one bugbear - riding a scooter straight at you and saying "EXCUSE ME," to get you to leap out of their way.

LaQueenOfTheSpring Wed 19-Mar-14 12:30:51

YABU.

Good manners and ettiquette should be taught at home, and I 100% think it the parent's job to do this. Teachers already have enough on their plate FGS.

Have worked as a TA in primary schools and was astonished at the number of parents who thought it was up to teaching staff to teach their children table manners, how to tie shoe laces, how to dress themselves properly etc hmm

LaQueenOfTheSpring Wed 19-Mar-14 12:35:45

I am totally old-school about manners - our DDs have been brought up to make eye contact when they say hello/goodbye - to not interupt, unless it's really necessary, and now they're a bit older they know to shake hands with adults, in certain circumstances.

If an adult (not family) walks into the room, then they stand up and they greet them politely, and they know to hold doors open.

Even before I had DCs, I had 3 very clear firm rules that I would insist on...beautiful manners, a high reading level from an early age, and a proper bedtime routine.

Everything else I'm a bit meh about, really...

ConferencePear Wed 19-Mar-14 12:48:19

Parents who don't teach their children basic manners let them down badly. I sat down in our self-service dining room opposite to a boy who had chosen chips. He noticed that all the others were eating their chips with a fork and he simply couldn't do it. In the end he took to picking up his chips with his fingers and then sticking them on to his fork before transferring them to his mouth. Poor kid was embarrassed and I reckon it was entirely his parents fault.

manicinsomniac Wed 19-Mar-14 13:07:47

LaQueen how can you insist on a high reading level from an early age? What if your children have SEN or just aren't very intelligent??

I don't think it's a schools job to teach manners but a school can help. We correct children's table manners in the dining room, they have to hold doors open for adults, they can't run in the corridors, have to stand up when the head comes into the room etc. Just standard stuff really, I think most schools do it.

JollyGolightly Wed 19-Mar-14 13:14:37

At my school we were taught how to.reply correctly to a written invitation and how to use fingerbowls, among other usefulnesses. Is this the sort of thing you mean?

Fusedog Wed 19-Mar-14 13:26:47

No op parents should teach it

Pedantichag Wed 19-Mar-14 13:45:11

I know parents SHOULD teach manners however many don't, this is an unfortunate reality as we know. This is also a statement of fact that no amount of pearl clutching can change.

For all saying teachers teach this and that and the next thing and therefore teaching kids basic social skills isn't their job, on the same token then shouldn't parents be teaching kids basics like colours, basic counting before they go to school do they can apply that knowledge in an interesting and meaningful way at school? No, that's teachers job. So that argument doesn't wash with me.

Part of a civilised society is basic manners, part of maths is basic arithmetic. I'm sticking by that logic before I getting a telling off.

LaQueenOfTheSpring Wed 19-Mar-14 13:58:29

manic I probably phrased that badly. What I meant was that (if possible) I very much wanted them to have a high reading level at a young age.

lainiekazan Wed 19-Mar-14 17:38:43

www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/mind-the-bap-since-when-did-chowing-a-chinese-on-the-tube-become-acceptable-9201613.html

This was in the Standard this evening.

I think eating in public is disgusting (excepting ice cream!), and I tell my dcs so. But it appears that noone else agrees now. Ds commutes to London and regularly feels sick as others chomp away on smelly food next to him.

When I was in the sixth form some girls were caught eating fish and chips in public at lunchtime on the first day of the lower sixth. That was it. Whole year ban from exiting the premises for the entire school year.

Mrskeylime Wed 19-Mar-14 17:45:02

I think that teachers should model good behavior, but surely most adults do this anyway whether they are teachers or not?

Pedantichag Wed 19-Mar-14 17:51:30

Mrskeylime

Can I come and live in your world please wink
No! Not being facetious either.

Mrskeylime Wed 19-Mar-14 18:03:10

haha pedantichag! Most people are polite though aren't they? That's why we always notice the rude ones!

Pedantichag Wed 19-Mar-14 18:11:27

To the contrary in my recent and not so recent experience. Always over joyed these days when someone shows even the most minimal of manners. Sorry state of affairs but then I am of course a pedantic old hag!

missinglalaland Wed 19-Mar-14 18:18:27

I agree manners should be taught at home. That said, it's helpful if the school is enforcing the same norms.

Goblinchild Wed 19-Mar-14 18:21:59

As I said, I can teach my lovely MC manners to children, but they may conflict with what goes on at home, and it may be sen as a direct attack on someone's parenting. Look at the bunfights that happen here, and we are all literate people with a certain degree of understanding.
If I have to teach it, my deportment will be improved by my nifty kevlar vest that I will put on my birthday requests list.

PocketFluff Wed 19-Mar-14 19:57:19

At my school we do teach table manners, although more the sitting at the table nicely, being polite, sharing and passing food, making polite conversation end than the cake fork end!

We do a session every half term and try to fit the food in with our topic. We also try, where possible, to use a variety of foods that not all the children will be familiar with. They really enjoy it!

mymiraclebubba Wed 19-Mar-14 20:02:28

Yabu parents should teach their brats manners

NearTheWindymill Wed 19-Mar-14 20:05:46

I don't think they should teach etiquette but I do think teachers should be responsible for setting a good example in accordance with high standards. Personally I think that includes saying please and thank you, not yelling like a fishwife, disciplining children for bad language rather than making allowances because of background and the same goes for cheek, insubordination, disruption, etc..

I find this a really difficult one because MIL, a former deputy head, counts food and thinks it's a bit of a laugh to lick dinner plates. She also calls children thickos and says there's no point bothering with some children because at best they will only ever work on building sites, etc.

Pedantichag Wed 19-Mar-14 20:08:04

Keep up my miraclebubba grin

Pedantichag Wed 19-Mar-14 20:09:52

Nearthewindymill

I quite like your rather balanced argument.

As for mil 'oooooh, I say ooooh she's a bit naughty isn't she!!'

Manners are taught informally at my school. Good manners are rewarded and failure to use manners is picked up on and the child given a chance to remedy the situation. It's part of maintaining a learning environment that is good and happy for all the children.

kim147 Wed 19-Mar-14 20:20:19

I think that's interesting between home and school. A parent (who is a friend of mine) said her son modelled me and started speaking a bit "posher" at home.

Apparently some people call a cafe a caff grin

I think my DS is polite. He has good manners when sat on the sofa watching telly. He doesn't wipe his hands on the sofa for example.

He always says please when he demands something. grin

mymiraclebubba Wed 19-Mar-14 20:20:44

Sorry on phone and it failed to load most of the thread!!

Yes, model manners to my class. I always try to remember my pleases and thank yous and I hold doors for others.

However, my after school club today was a writing booster for yr6. Last term I ran an extension maths group for children choosing to take the Primary Maths Challenge.

Since I want to see my own child occasionally I'm not planning on doing another club.

Pedantichag Wed 19-Mar-14 20:35:44

Tsk tsk Miracle.

Now! Moving on...(and beyond manners slightly).

Nose picking, spitting. That sort of thing.

Personally nose picking to me is vile however if whomever is carrying out this act in public and doesn't wipe the contents in their nose on anything other than a tissue or in fact eats it as I've seen, is it less offensive than say cutting finger nails on public transport transport or spitting in the street (my personal abhorrence), where bits of bodily debris is is waiting for some unsuspecting passerby to come into contact with it.

morethanpotatoprints Wed 19-Mar-14 22:04:12

I have to say this though maybe controversial but:

Most of the children I come across are well mannered, its the adults who aren't.
My dd goes to lots of schools for various activities where there are many other parents, teachers outside the schools, and teachers from the schools in question.

It is very busy and lots of equipment being carried mainly by the children. We hold doors open for everybody, as do other parents etc.
Usually the children say thank you. A quarter of the parents do, and fewer of the teachers do. In fact the teachers are the worst.

I think the teachers do this because their minds are occupied on other things and maybe they are used to being opened for them.
My daughter comments on this quite often, she has started keeping tally grin. She is only 10 and these are all local high schools.

MsAspreyDiamonds Wed 19-Mar-14 22:19:19

My cousin is an ill mannered, nasty piece of work because her mother is exactly the same. No amount of etiquette training will redeem those two. As the saying goes, the apple doesnt fall too far from the tree.

DioneTheDiabolist Wed 19-Mar-14 22:22:25

I have never been taught good manners. They were modeled in the home and school and therefore are 2nd nature now.

Etiquette is slightly different. My grandfather and one of my teachers in PS taught me how to address bishops, en titled etc. While I can excuse lapses in etiquette, I judge the parents of those (under 25) who have poor manners. I am sometimes appalled at the lack of basic manners on MN.

missymarmite Wed 19-Mar-14 22:25:02

OP, when you say 'etiquette', what do you mean, exactly? Should teachers be responsible for teaching the difference between a dessert fork and a main meal fork? Should they teach deportment and proper pronunciation? Or are you referring to something else?

Pedantichag Wed 19-Mar-14 22:37:47

Etiquette is a bit broader than spoons and forks.

I must admit though teaching correct posture can't be bad for one can it wink

whatshallwedo Thu 20-Mar-14 07:19:23

What happens when the teachers themselves have no manners?

I was in a gift shop yesterday at the same time as a group of school children on a trip.

We queued up at the till behind some of the children who were waiting to pay. There were 4 children still looking about and when they had chosen their items one little boy queued behind us whilst the teacher told the 3 girls to stand in front of us!

I have to say that on this occasion I didn't say anything directly as it would have come out badly due to the day I was having (exdp, dd's birthday, spending the day together anyone?)

I also realise this wasn't the children's fault but how can they be expected to understand how to queue and wait their turn in future if it isn't being demonstrated by their teacher?

SweepTheHalls Thu 20-Mar-14 07:25:51

After school clubs are about good will , that is rapidly being eroded by Gove.

lainiekazan Thu 20-Mar-14 09:27:44

Unfortunately some people who kids look up to display appalling manners. Spitting is disgusting yet there on our screens are footballers gobbing and shooting snot out of their nostrils. If I were the ref I'd send a player off for this!

Goblinchild Thu 20-Mar-14 09:43:08

Could have been a TA, Whatshallwedo.
Or a parent helper?
Did the shop assistant not say 'I'll just serve this lady as she was first?'
Although granted, on a trip you are so busy frantically counting and checking that your focus narrows.

Goblinchild Thu 20-Mar-14 09:46:06

Clubs used to be about good will, but they also became a matter of pressure from the SLT to ensure that in a good/outstanding school, everyone who wasn't an NQT ran at least one club, or ran jointly.
You got a serious frowning and pointed comments if you didn't round my neck of the woods.

wonderingsoul Thu 20-Mar-14 09:58:14

schools allready do dont they? just not in a lesson way..

they incourage good behaviour.. notice when some one is kind and remark on it.. they talk about sharing.. they dont let children call out.. they teach to be kind to each other... they pull children up on their behaviour.. at school they even do sorry letters.. where if one child has been mean they lose x amount of play time and have to do a letter to the other child..

im not sure what else you want?

the fault lays with the parents who dont reinforce it at home.

Pedantichag Thu 20-Mar-14 10:01:21

Wonderingsoul

This is not the case in some schools I'm afraid.

As for asking, 'what more do I want?'...ohhhh the list is endless! grin

wonderingsoul Thu 20-Mar-14 10:08:11

in which case the school should be closed down really..

i cant see how they dont teach at least some basic manners.. otherwise the school would be over run with children doing what they like and hurting eachother?

granted some schools do it better.. and i have to admit.. the school my db's are at are very hot on kind, polite, behaviour, and do alot to encourage and praise it.. along with being very strict on what they wont accept. .. prehasp i am being blinded my own expearance.. but i cant belive there is one school that doesnt teach/model good behaviour in some way.

Pedantichag Thu 20-Mar-14 10:18:36

'Believe it baby'.

I can recount some horrific stories actually and yes the children are running rampant hence one school being stripped of it's 'excellent' rating.
Primary school children hitting and punching each other and the staff ignoring it. Yes, true story, scouts honour. Oh and this is a primary school, the incidents at a local secondary school though really do take it to another level altogether.

whatshallwedo Thu 20-Mar-14 16:42:02

Goblinchild no the assistant was busy serving the children who were already in front of us.

They could've been a TA or parent but it doesn't take studying at uni to be able to promote good manners. The children were told to go in front of us except for the little boy who chose to wait behind us.

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