To ask you what you would like to say to the Labour Party leadership?(192 Posts)
This is a bit of a TAAT, but I didn't want to take the other excellent thread in only one direction, so here is a new one.
I'm a member of the Labour Party and I know there are other members here and plenty of voters. I also know that there's a world of rage out there about what this government is doing to this country and how ineffectually Labour seem to be responding.
I suspect that important Labour types will read this if get enough people involved. They need to listen to us or we will have to deal with another Tory government.
I'll begin by saying that I want Labour to:
Support a living wage for everyone, in all parts of the country. Immediately.
Close the goddamn tax loopholes!
Then you can afford whatever policies you want!
It's OK, you can stop hiding now!
Want I want them to do and what is likely that they would do are two very different things.
What I would like them to do: rediscover their identity as socialists (small s); stand up to the media and refuse to be part of Soundbite Politics; reverse the welfare reforms; review the social housing situation in order to take some of the power out of the hands of the less-scrupulous private landlords; close tax loopholes to fund policies which benefit the many not the few; reduce tuition fees; overhaul if not scrap the National Curriculum and specifically the bureaucracy associated with it; protect the poor and vulnerable; implement a living wage for all - although whether the latter is possible without some change to the housing situation in this country, I don't know - and above all, keep their promises.
Be proud to say that paying taxes is a good thing - education, nhs, pensions, roads, trains, energy, flood relief etc is all better dealt with one big pot rather than individually
looking after people when things are tough is a also good thing to do - even before people consider that they may be the person who needs help some time (ok there will be some people who don´t ´deserve´ but nothing is ever simple, this proportion who scam are tiny, and better the odd person gets more than people who need get less)
Stand up and tell the truth about Blair. Push for him to be tried for war crimes.
2. It's time to have policies and show what they stand for.
My natural political leanings are left wing but I just don't know what the Labour Party are for now. I hated Blair's Thatcherite copycat policies, but this lot are so wet they are never going to inspire anybody and I have no clue where they are going. I would never vote Tory or Ukip, and the Libdems have shot themselves in the foot, but I would seriously consider voting Green or NHA.
To be honest I think their best bet, and the way they might be able to get the Tories out, is to guarantee to reverse the dismantling / privatisation of the NHS. I agree about the living wage, and the demonisation of the poor and disabled has to stop. But the NHS is the only subject likely to galvanise everybody.
And get a fucking grip on immigration. Don't be so strident and listen to people, all people, not just your friends.
Strident should read arrogant.
1. Student fees should return to how it was 10 years ago.
2. Improve the NHS
3. Work on foreign policy and arms trade - stop supporting oppressive regimes.
And yes, Blair needs to stand trial for war crimes!
Ed Milliband is never going to make an elected Head of State. Until that changes, we are most likely stuck with Camer-Osbor-Johnson. Please sort it out pronto.
Tell the truth about Blair - and, how can you stand there spouting politics after what Gordon Brown did to this country, have you no shame?
A living wage and affordable housing.
Apparently 75% off all new builds in London in the last year were bought by rich foreign investors. Homes are for people not investors!
We are storing up real problems in this country by the widening gap between the cost of housing and what ordinary people can afford.
Like Inertia, I don't know what the Labour party stands for. I don't know where on the spectrum they are. Throwing everything out and starting again was an excellent idea ... but you haven't done the starting again bit. Get on it.
Agree sort out the leadership - Its very hard to take Ed Miliiband seriously - He is seriously damaging your electability, he is not the leader of a party let alone head of state, possibly might pass as head boy but thats about it.
Be strong and challenge the systematic dismantling and distribution of services/assets to the private sector for the cheapest price. Reform properly where necessary but just shifting problems to the private sector has come back and bit this country on the arse so many times its not funny anymore its truly depressing. (trains, utilities, PFI, atos, prisons)
I agree with Scarletohello housing should be regarded as a necessary utility like water rather than an investment
Reverse the Blairite nonsense about 'choice'. Realise that most people don't want 'choice' in schools, hospitals, etc ... We just want decent local schools and health care.
What a waste of time and money these 'choices' have proved to be. academies and Free Schools anyone?
The labour party has leadership? If you ever find them let me know, I have lots of questions!
yes happyon when I am sick or want to choose a school I don´t want to have to train as a doctor or become an expert on education - I want to go somewhere that works and that I trust - that´s enough
I will not vote Lib Dem again, and I will never vote Tory.
Please give me a fucking option.
Doesn't all the 'choice' nonsense pre-date Blair?
I usually vote Labour but not sure I will this time. I was a paid up member when Ed first took over. I'll probably stay at home and not vote in the next general election or possibly vote Lib Dem.
Ed Miliband started off well, he came across as intelligent, compassionate and credible. Then it all went wrong the last 18 months have been disastrous for the the Labour Party. Ed Miliband doesn't have much to say, he isn't visible he seems to leave most of the talking to other senior members of the Labour Party. David Cameron is always criticising Labour for not having a plan and as much as I hate to admit it I think he is right. If Labour do have policies they are keeping them very close to their chest because I don't know what they stand for on most of the key issues.
My perception is that Labour are enjoying the break from not being in power and having a bit of down time.
I wouldn't feel confident if Labour won the next election. I would hate a Tory Government and think it's probably for the best if we have another coalition government to give Labour the chance to work out their future.
ha drummer thats what i thought to. if they put ed balls instead of milliband as leader id vote for them, but not before then.
grow some industry, dont make the economy and tax revenue so dependent on financial services, its made the country beholden to the whims and interests of the banks. by that you cant have a truly democratic political system if the economic ideology is neoliberalism.
make the banks and the associated rich invest/spend more of the money they earn from usury into the economy. instead of profitting from the hard work and production of ordinary people than hiding it away in offshore banks to sit and accrue large interest. make them take some risk with their borrowers instead of lazily lending it out to get more money whether or not businesses fail or succeed.
I'd also have to ask - where's Gromit.
Maid, that is exactly how I feel.
Please renationalise railways, and stop the flow of public money/subsidies into private 'rail' companies.
Please renationalise major utilities, to stop them ripping us off!
Please make sure we never, ever, have to suffer another Tory government.....
Agree sort out the leadership - Its very hard to take Ed Miliiband seriously - He is seriously damaging your electability, he is not the leader of a party let alone head of state, possibly might pass as head boy but thats about it.
Milliband has zero credibility. Balls is a goon. Harriet Harman is insufferable. Andy Burnham gives me the clench fist. All the prominent politicians from the leading parties are irksome but there's something about this lot that I find completely impossible to take seriously.
It's shocking that companies like Starbucks, Google and Amazon can get away with dodging billions in tax. But they do it because it's not illegal. So make it illegal.
Stop NHS tourism. It isn't a myth. It happens a lot.
Look after our teachers
please do something to help bright, young kids into work before they lose all hope - apprentice schemes? Some modern day version of the YTS?
Resign. with Milibland and Balls up at the helm they are unelectable. they are saying nothing new, nothing radical other than "see look what the con-dems are doing isn't it awful" Real oppositions put forward real ideas not just knock down what the other side say. Make voting compulsory and install a "none of the above" option.
I hear you maid, I really do.
Do the labour strategists have any idea how desperate we are to have someone to vote for and how close even traditional labour voters (even party members like me) are to not voting labour?
Start building so good affordable homes. Start to increase the supply
Or descrease the demand through getting to grips with immigration/limiting work visas
I'd like them to move away from theoretical 'socialism' that represents idealism and being so right on it hurts. Move back towards representing the ordinary person. Maybe that means some slightly uncomfortable decisions that don't sit well with the lefty intelligentsia but do represent ordinary people.
Save our NHS.
Stop being fucking Tories in red ties
Renationalise the railways. Renationalise the energy and water companies. Introduce a living wage. Remove loopholes that enable tax avoidance. Make it illegal to use the phrase "we are all in it together" without meaning it or enacting policies contrary to it. Change party funding arrangements to a set amount per party, funded by tax. Not a lot, get creative.
Mps salaries should be set at the current average salary in the UK. Voting should be made easier and more accessible to everyone. I find it shocking that more people vote for x factor than for parliament.
Oh, and grow some bloody balls will you? Like other posters, I agree you are not providing an alternative to the current c u next Tuesdays and you are missing out on a lot of votes if you don't realise this
They need to get a load of new people into parliament at the next election, so they can have a different team fronting the election after that. They need these people to stand out from the Cameron - Blair mould - not career politicians and not a load of ex public school boys. Encourage local parties to select people from the area, have people with regional accents and job titles people understand on election leaflets. Labour needs to visibly represent 'the people'.
Go and learn some basic economics so that next time you are in power you understand that spending (other people"s) money that you haven't got is not sensible.
SolomanDaisy - great idea in principle. but the practice is lots of people moan about how rubbish it all is but wont get involved. ordinary/real people just don't have or want to find the time or the funds to do this any more. the idea of civic duty went out when both parents had to work just to keep heads above water. I see thread after thread on here "someone needs to do something about XX" what no one appreciates is that we, you, me are that someone. Give up my job to campaign to be an MP. put in loads and loads of unpaid hours in the hope of being elected. sorry, cant afford it. so instead I am just a parish councillor. 1 day a month but I do try to make a difference.
There are plenty of labour activists acting as local councillors, many of whom could be MPs with the right support.
What SolomanDaisy is saying- and what I asked Ed Mili in his webchat, which he never answered.
Why oh why are the constituencies filled with careerist politicians when there are hundreds, probably thousands of totally dedicated grassroots activists who could inspire the next generations? There seems to be some fucking lego-playmobil factory somewhere churning out middle-class smart boys who want to play at politics for their 15 minutes. (I don't actually class the Milibands as such, they were socialists in the womb, but have been worked on and toned down over the years by the faceless bureaucrats at HQ)
Stop undervaluing everything none profit making and trying to squeeze a sodding buck out of it.
When everybody has a secure roof over their heads, education and healthcare then perhaps free enterprise will actually flourish with innovations when people aren't worrying about scraping by.
And sorry OP but I believe this living wage line everybody's spouting at the moment is pure bullshit and won't work, all it'll do is push up other prices. Let's work at it from the other end and bring the cost of living into line with what people are actually earning. Social housing which is forever ignored would be a start.
Even the guy who originally proposed the minimum wage as a 'thing' doesn't believe raising it without properly considering other factors is a plan that'll work.
Great thread. So good to see that there are some left wingers out there! I used to belong to the Labour Party but I'm very disillusioned since the Blair years....outrageous war mongering and pandering to Murdoch.
Agree Ed M is a no hoper. Also agree with re-nationalising basic services including transport. Stop academy programmes of schools...they belong to local communities not 'trusts' run by Gove's friends/Tory sympathisers.
Feel very down since Tony Benn died. Where's the next one like him?
Proud that I've brought my children up to be socialists though...maybe they could stand for election!
Create enough social/affordable housing so that house prices rebalance themselves.
Put in a moratorium on meddling in education for at least 5 years so that we can get some evidence on what works and what doesn't, then base policy on that.
Bring in rent controls.
Restore minimum house size standards (as abolished by Maggie in the 80s) so that any new builds don't end up being tiny rabbit hutches.
Stop privatising stuff - I don't think renationalising is possible, sadly.
Grow a pair and dare to be different from the Tories.
I'm with mummymeister on compulsory voting.
A couple of election results with 'none of the above' results and these parties would have to start actually working out what the electorate want.
I think I would vote for any party offering that in their manifesto. A term of shitbags for real long term effect would be worth it imho.
brilliant thread and agree with all especially vivipru and onemoresleeptillwembly
just bloody listen. and ffs abolish or reduce tuition fees and being back apprenticeships so youngsters get a chance if a job and a wage. more affordable housing.
stop meddling in the NHS and education and let teachers and doctors/nurses run schools and hospitals themselves. get rid of the layers of management and the joke that is Ofsted.
I am very much afraid though that the Tories won't so much win the next election but that labour will loose.
Ed Milliband has to go. I just think cheese grommet. I know it's wrong but I can't help it. he has no gravitas.
"......There are plenty of labour activists acting as local councillors, many of whom could be MPs with the right support....." but support from whom SolomonDaisy? are you talking financial, moral what? The posh boys get in because they have the money to be unpaid interns. they have the money to live in London. they have the money to smooze at events and be seen in the right (political ) places. its got sod all to do with talent. its got everything to do with time and wanting to put the effort in to overcome the lack of money or connections. Look at how many politicians are from what I call career political families. father was a union leader. mother on the local council etc. (or in some cases father in the house of Lords) look at the schools they went to. of the 650 MP how many are state educated? The current political system is not working. theres no red, orange or blue any more. only grey. Stale, pale and male everywhere you look.
A lot of sense being talked here - listen, listen, listen!!
People want affordable housing including longer term renting options, affordable energy, transport and food. If you get that right then everyone's got at least a fighting chance.
Make the baby boomers and banks sitting on all that money invest in a new green/tech economy or even social housing.
If you can't renationalise because it will weaken the pound right now (don't know if it will, just an assumption as to why you're not suggesting it already) then at least can you organise/twiddle the law to allow some state-backed 'join our energy club' type things where you guarantee to negotiate cheap energy for everyone who joins. Like Moneysavingexpert.com does.
Look into how we could move towards some micro-generation of solar etc energy for local communities. Look into helping local communities to grow and share their own food.
I don't think anyone here is coming with anything more radical than give people the basics at an affordable rate and create more jobs so we're not in hock for the foreseeable to the selfish bankers and tax dodgers.
how do you force people to vote?
It's shameful that about half the population prob won't vote at the next election but they still have a right not to
Little Milly and Bad Boy Balls have got to go but who on earth would replace them?
I think we actually agree on what needs to change! But local candidates are still selected by the local party. If the central party stopped imposing candidates, there would be no need to go and do unpaid internships in London. You'd be chosen by people who'd been active with you locally. Local Labour groups are full of colour, ability and decency. But people don't see the local activists as the face of the party, they see a group who look largely indistinguishable from the Tories.
Housing, housing, housing.
And reverse the terrible stance on civil liberties that Labour adopted over the last decade.
Nancy66 -voting is compulsory in other countries. I could be wrong but I think Australia is one of them. people who don't vote are fined I believe. voting could be made a lot, lot easier and more convenient for people - have elections over 3 or 4 days rather than just one day. Loads more polling stations. free transport to and from the stations. I have bags of ideas. you cant have a situation where less than half the people vote but all the people moan about the outcome, its bonkers. we need to get back to the situation where people see and feel that their views and ideas make a difference. too much "why bother" going on at the moment and this apathy allows the idiots to prosper.
Stop selling our council housing stock.
Close tax loopholes.
Build affordable social housing .
Be firm on immigration.
Understand that the only way out of poverty is through work not by increasing benefits.
Oh how I agree with most of this thread.
I would vote Labour if they promised to stop privatising the NHS.
If they would put all schools back into local authority control, abolish all faith schools and then leave them alone for a while.
Reintroduce free university education.
I wouldn't object to paying more tax if it was spent efficiently. If the tax inspectors extracted tax from those who fiddle from the highest to the lowest, or if they could make the CSA for example, efficient.
Recognise that we are not on a level playing field with other EU countries when it comes to seeking jobs. For example, you cannot become a plumber in France unless they recognise your qualifications.
As for the leadership I despair. I know what I don't want and that is a bunch of privately educated people who have never had to contend with the grind of 9 to 5 and all that that entails. I also think that the government is too centred on London and other towns and that the countryside hardly gets a look in.
Apart from that I think I'm a satisfied citizen.
Affordable housing whether thats .ortgage or longer assured rent controlled tenancies.
Stop interfering in nhs and education. Every bloody general election they spend millions fiddling with both ,without actually giving any reforms time to work before the next government comes along and fucks it all up again
End the tax loopholes.
I despise the tories but can also not imagine voting for the current labour lot. They have no identity. Where are the parties with policies the majority of the electorate can relate too. This is why UKIP are gaining so much ground. To Joe Public they feel like someone who is listening to their concerns. However wrong they are. Trying to discredit them, calling them clowns and fruitcakes will backfire. You are insulting those people who would vote for them by association. All that will do is make them more determined to vote Ukip as a great big middle finger to both parties. The public love an underdog.
I dont recognise Labour anymore as the party I felt most in line with. They are tory-lite.
Please get rid of Ed Miliband and Harriet Harman.
Oh I actually like Ed!
Zero hours contracts. Risen from 150,000 in 2008 to nearly 600,000 in 2014. Keeps people below the breadline but off the unemployment stats.
And housing (again). I cannot overstress how important the issue of rental insecurity is.
yes Australia does have compulsory voting.
I can't think of a gentle, non-offensive way of saying this but there are too many lazy, thick fuckers in this country for compulsory voting to ever work.
The prospect of a fine won't shift them off the sofa either - they just won't pay it and, ultimately, any fines will be unenforceable.
Listen, again. Look at your roots, revisit them, move away from the Blair/ Thatcherite policies.
On any other day I'd probably be saying most of the stuff above. But today it's overshadowed by "stop talking crap about the new childcare tax break. The Tories have done enough actual stuff wrong without you having to make things up"
ConferencePair yes yes yes. totally.
Wow Nancy66 ".....I can't think of a gentle, non-offensive way of saying this but there are too many lazy, thick fuckers in this country for compulsory voting to ever work...." So you can only vote if you pass an intelligence test then? or if you work? that's an excellent way of keeping the poor and uneducated in their place. I am genuinely at this comment. just waiting for someone to say you can only vote if you pay tax or if you even above a certain amount. oh hang on a minute - that's been done already in the 1800's. We have to engage people to genuinely show and believe that every view matters.
If you're meant to be the party of the working people, then actually listen to them.
They're not from Primrose Hill.
If any of you had actually done the door steps last election you would understand that people are worried about immigration and the deficit and the welfare state etc
They're not stupid. They don't need you to tell them what they need!
mummymeister. Yes, yes, that is EXACTLY what I said. Well done.
Not everyone wants all their tax money spent on themselves. There are plenty of people that WANT to support the less well off, those with disabilities, education and the NHS etc.
I would happily pay MORE tax.
Nancy66, suggest you just move over there and stand on that spot. that's right. the one that's slightly to the right of Attila the Hun. Blimey, now I have heard it all!
You don't have to be right wing to think there are loads of lazy, thick people out there. Or even to know that there are.
Sorry but whenever anybody mentions Labour Leadership I just automatically think of Ed Milliband and 2 words - Backstabbing B-----d
You are never going to win by pandering to the media view of what 'middle England' is. Make Labour exciting and worth voting for, not a washed out Lib party.
and yes make firm arrangements to stop the selling off of the NHS.
I will never forgive you for selling out the working classes and why didn't Tony Blair just join the conservative party
The Labour party will be remembered for a war that should've never happened
And I am a Labour supporter, more because there is nobody else to support rather than believing they can actually do a good job
mummymeister - you're reading something that's not there. I am just saying that there's a group of people who would never dream of voting in a million years.
If you think otherwise then you're probably living in the idealistic, privileged, north London, middle-class, leftie bubble already mentioned on this thread.
Tony Benn remained a Labour Party member til the day he died, as it was the best opportunity of achieving a just society. He voted for Ed Milliband in the election leadership. What would Tony Benn do? Join Labour and vote for them.
Tony Benn was one of a kind, though - genuinely more interested in doing the right thing rather than necessarily furthering his own career. I couldn't say the same of any of the
shower current Commons.
I'm not convinced nancy66, we manage to collect council tax and TV licences, heck we even manage a census every 10 years.
Of course there'll be a percentage of people who just don't engage but presuming those numbers match council tax non-payers, we still seem to think that's worth the bother.
Re: housing, thinking further on it, the market could be controlled to an extent. If the council tax banding of your property was defined by a scale of worth (eg. Band B worth £10-£25) and sale/rent prices couldn't breech that limit surely the market would adjust? Properties would have their worth defined by the free market within those limits.
It would have to be subject to annual increments that were able to be stopped in certain economic conditions (by the BoE maybe?), but I can't see how else wages and house prices are ever going to even out, well apart from a massive social housing building scheme which isn't likely to happen.
Self - interest? It was Ed Mil who re-arranged Labour finances to make them less dependent on the unions. A Brave Step and one that bit the hand that put him into the leadership. He spared us the David Milliband Blairite future.
Exercising your right to not vote would be a human right though wouldn't it?
After the last labour government I vowed never to vote labour. It's a measure of the revulsion I feel for this current bunch of self interested crooks that I would reconsider this now.
Promise to reverse the health & social care bill & stop the sell of the nhs and my vote is yours.
Reverse the restrictions on the access to legal aid! Soon justice will be only for the richer people. And reverse the privatisation of the Probation Service. It's risking massive harm for profit for the Tory buddies.
Agree with the choice thing. People don't want to have to choose every little thing when they're ill or for schools - they want to know that their local hospital/school is as good as every other one and they'll get good care wherever they are. More choice leads to more stress not happier people.
Save our NHS and stop the tax loopholes.
I would like to ask - who are the labour party? I have no idea anymore.
Oh yes & put ed balls out into the long grass....
If you want better MPs then as well as changing the London set running the party machine then the media also needs sorting out. You either have to be blemish free and bland or a jolly rascal these days. Soundbites are the medium of communication and any serious, slightly flawed person will fall foul of the media moguls.
I certainly did things in my teens and twenties that I wouldn't want hashed over by some editor. Most ordinary people do. So that would always put me off being an MP!
"Understand that the only way out of poverty is through work not by increasing benefits."
Not everyone CAN work. A decent society looks after its vulnerable and disabled members, and if that means a comparatively small number of people get something they're not entitled to in order to ensure that no-one in genuine need suffers, then so be it.
Ed Miliband doomed his party by standing for leader and splitting the vote. As little as I like David M, he would have done a better job and not started his leadership under the stain of treachery.
Well I suppose selecting 'none if the above' could count as a declaration of your wish not to have a vote counted towards electing the country's governing body.
To be honest, I'm not sure we have a right not to vote in the same way we have a right to vote. Not enshrined in the human rights act anyway... Could be wrong, but I think people have been too busy getting equal voting rights to think they might not want it
listen about immigration, listen about the EU, listen about people's perceptions of the human rights act abuses!!
just fucking listen to ordinary people not the luvvies.
Compassion for the vulnerable & frail in our society. Promoting the sense that a society has a responsibility to look after everyone & that in doing so makes everyone's life better.
Enough with the vilification, scapegoating and the divide & rule.
Enough with the imposition of market philosophy on every aspect of all uk life. For example Quality services providing good medical care should not need to have a profit margin to be considered an asset rather than a drain on state resources.
Put public money into public services not into private company pockets. Private companies are not necessarily more efficient or effective & profits go to shareholders rather than being reinvested into services. Endless money is being wasted on pointless tendering of contracts and relentless reorganisation of services that need to just get on & do their jobs.
I am a Labour member and do my bit at elections.
Reverse the privatisation of criminal justice, before there are several high profile incidents with offenders managed by the likes of Serco.
Protect and support the NHS.
Stop tax dodging.
Be brave and bold. Show some balls. Stop cowering and hiding. Take the Tories on. Put social justice at the heart of everything. Apologise for Iraq.
Ban on second home ownership- or at least 3rd home ownership
Stop academisation and free schools
Look creatively at the whole education system, and trust teachers
No privatisation in the NHS, no more full stop
Close tax loopholes
Free nursery provision
Free school meals
Most importantly, change the bloody argument: don't work timidly within the confines of the debate set by the right and Murdoch press- set the agenda, pose an alternative.
I Voted for Ed too. He is decent but not charismatic. But Ed, what do you actually stand for? What is the Labour Party about?
Listen to us: you need us as much as we need you.
I,m really disillusioned with politics full stop I work for the NHS so see every day whats happened to it the rot started about ten years ago so we cant completely blame the condems for the inevitable privitasation of the NHS they are just finishing what labour started closing services post freezes etc the education system needs a complete overhall and if labour seriously want to get in in the next elect they have to seriously reconsider Ed Milliband as the party leader.
Get rid of Miliband.
Tell me what your policies are, please?
I would like you to concentrate on:
affordable housing funded by creating more secure low to medium waged jobs.
sort out the nhs / benefits system - please cut more fat at the top of the nhs to release it for the lowly workers and patients and rethink what has been done to those on dla / sickness benefits as it is a scandal.
Close tax loopholes to pay for all this.
Try Blair for war crimes.
I'm not enamoured with Ed but I just don't think it's a qu of leadership, it's one of policy. Focus on personality is a bit of a red herring- if Ed was speaking convincingly of some of the ideas suggested on this thread he'd be vastly more credible.
I'm a bit annoyed at them calling the latest Tory childcare proposal (which, I know, is clearly made with an eye on the next election) an 'au pair' subsidy.
It isn't hard to spend £10K on childcare if you work full time. Regardless of the ins and outs of this policy, calling households where two adults work full-time 'rich' is out of touch, and £10K is not a large income for somebody with a full time job (albeit perhaps live-in).
To me it seems like a knee jerk comment that doesn't recognise either the cost or low wages of child care.
be brave and bold - absolutely. I don't know who the Labour Party are these days. Be an OPPOSITION, tell us what you stand for, stop mealy-mouthing and compromising and faffing... You used to stand for something, now even your supporters are confused.
- remove tuition fees
- build some bloody houses that ordinary people can afford
- increase protection for tenants
- close tax loopholes that let billionaires get away with paying virtually nothing
- renationalise the railways, the utilities and stop fucking about with my NHS. Stop trying to screw money out of everything
Show some guts.
I wouldn't want Ed Milliband as a leader. Change the leader of the Labour Party and put in someone with a bit of charisma and you will get more votes. I have no faith in the current party despite voting labour all my adult life. Not sure who to vote for in the next election!
Give us universal childcare!
I'm not sure complulsory voting changes much to be honest. Political culture in Australia doesn't seem the better for it and there is no 'none of the above option' there. What is good, though, is that they hold elections at the weekend so that more people can make it to the polling booths.
Labour: please defend the NHS. This is the right thing to do and a sure vote winner. Why can't you seem to see this?
Ed miliband isn't the right leader.
Sort out the NHS
Have an adult conversation with the unions. 1% is a below inflation increase, but there are lots of us in private companies, where there is no union representation, who have had a pay freeze for years, plus being on zero hours contracts to boot.
Be upfront about how you are going to fund all of these policies and initiatives - because if you aren't raising taxes or cutting budgets, then where's the money coming from?
I think leaders with charisma are part of the problem, Southsea. I want politicians with principles, who stand for something, who are not tossed on the seas of popular policy. Love him or hate him, we all knew what Tony Benn stood for.
i think loads of people dislike ed for competing against his brother for the labour party leadership. he must have had some ambition and passion if he wanted it that much he would betray his brother like that but where is it?
even if he doesnt have charisma you'd expect to see fire but he's just so bland.
I think Miliband could step up and be a good prime minister. He's from a good socialist background, he's more serious and conscientious than those idiots in office now and, IME, that's what we need. Not some blingy PR man like Blair - a serious leader who understands why and for whom Labour came into being.
That im too young to vote for them because of some weird class tribal sense of identity so perhaps they should come up with a real reason for me to vote for them.
That just because i wont vote tory/ukip doesn't mean i will vote for them.
It isnt good enough to run a political party on the basis that you are marginally better than some other really awful political parties.
I think leaders with charisma are part of the problem, Southsea. I want politicians with principles, who stand for something, who are not tossed on the seas of popular policy
Completely agree, temporarily. What good is charisma or being able to shoot your opponent down with words when the country's in such a fucking mess?
"Betray" his brother? Like David had a divine right to it? They both stood in an open election and Ed won. I voted for him because I didn't want the Blairism lite that David embodied.
Let's stop focussing on personalities and discuss policies. I am with PPs about reversing the appalling inequalities in the benefits system.
What maid said!
Give me some options!
Have some actual polices!
Close tax loopholes.
Save the NHS and stop them closing ambulance stations.
Save state education and disband ofsted as not fit for purpose
Get rid of balls as shadow chancellor - he is a knob
be honest about why you were voted out, war in iraq and overspending
most people are not left or right wing they are centre, moving wither further to right or left makes any party virtually unelectable
they want work to pay not benefits to increase, they are worried about immigration, cost of living, affordable housing and jobs, people also want the state to stop nannying them about parenting diet etc etc etc
stop thinking in generalisations bankers and businesses bad most other groups good
not all families are hard working not all the rich are exploiters most people are not on the breadline most are not rich, we may not want eton old boys neither do we want champagne socialists
the vast majority do not want to pay more taxes, study after study has shown that being just £500 a year better off will make most people switch allegiance you need to convince people having messed up you can be trusted with economy and when things improve you will reduce deficit not just increase spending
Cresent I think it was a case of be careful of what you wish for. I honestly think he was swept along with the leadership challenge and honestly now regrets it.
we need charisma and substance. not either/or!
My whole family was staunch blind Labour supporters, working class roots from up north.
They are all fed up and sick to death of Labour. Feel betrayed, they have the poorest among us and they will never ever ever vote labour again.
The Labour party died and was buried along with John Smith. It has not had an honest and effective leader since.
Please, can we keep these coming? I don't know how else to make them listen.
They should look to this week's Oxfam report and recognise that there is more to be gained by stressing our similarities and common cause than in indulging in the current trend for splitting us into opposed groups - the discourse of scroungers, shirkers, squeezed middle, hard working families blah blah.
I don't know what most people want, but I suspect it's
- quality NHS services. GPs you could get an appointment with out of office hours would be a huge step forwards.
- good, safe, clean, reliable public transport
- a great local school in every locality with happy staff
- affordable housing and the recognition that a home is a home, and should be everyone's right
- clean, affordable energy
- work that pays and rights at work
- community projects, eg gardens, farms, clean ups, parks, etc - just little things that are nice and make this neoliberal world feel a bit less alienating and shitty
Has anyone tweeted or emailed them the link?
Ed Milliband. Please fuck off. You inhabit a tiny corner of North London where middle class people pretend to give a shit about the working classes. You are metropolitan, Londoncentric, chattering class fuckwit. You are destroying the Labour Party with you inanne, ineffective policies and leadership at a time when the country needs strong opposition to the Tories. It's a tragedy that you beat andy burnham in the leadership contest because he is a man who actually understands ordinary people and their problems. Unfortunately for andy, he didn't come from an 'intellectual' political dynasty. Attacking tory policies should be like shooting fish in a barrel for any half decent labour leader but you haven't landed a single blow on cameron thanks to the fact you're completely fucking unsuited to the job, contrary to what your fuycking ego and fucking cronies have told you.
Get rid of Milliband. We don't care about you wanting to be nice people and not upset your leader, we care about getting rid of this awful Tory government, get it, so grow up and REPLACE MILLIBAND with someone who actually believes in something and has the courage to speak out.
Being in opposition isn't supposed to be about keeping a low profile in case you say something that alienates a small portion of the electorate. It's about speaking out against the awful things the Government are doing and trying to influence things even when you're not in power. And deciding what you actually care about and want to do, and making those things your policies. Rather than, you know, not criticising anything the Tories do because TORY VOTERS might not like it. Anybody not Tory has felt completely abandonned over the past few years.
Andy Burnham is very likeable but still cut from similar new labour cloth. Ditto the whole front bench, most of the back benches. Can't think of many labour MPs with much charisma or ability to construct an alternative to the Tories. The gooduns are all dead and gone (Robin Cook) And then there are disastrously unlikeable ex lefties like Claire Short (Iraq twattery) or Dianne Abbot (smug)
Tom Watkins shows some fire.
Chaka is dishy but wishy washy.
All crap, blame the selection panels.
Just stop being so crap and stand up for what you believe in - loudly! Lots of people in this country believe that the notion of paying taxes to create a support system for those who need it - from cradle to grave - is the hallmark of a decent society. Stop being so wussy - the vision being sold to us by the Tories stinks to high heaven and deserves to be ripped to little pieces by anyone with a brain and a heart that's still functioning. But where the hell are Labour's big guns?
I also think the party is fiddling round the edges because there's still a deep-seated belief that a properly left wing alternative would be unelectable. Bollocks to that - have you SEEN how discontented the majority of the population are with shiny-shiny politics conducted by the same old elites? After a global economic crisis brought about by unregulated banks?
With the rich just getting richer...and richer...and richer. I mean how bad do you think it really has to get before you plan to move back towards the left again?
This is not the US - we don't want the equivalent of the Republican/Democrat game. So please - get back to your roots and remember what you are FOR. It may also be time to grovel for forgiveness for going to war against the will of the masses and the UN on trumped up intelligence because your leader at the time thought he was the Messiah and had forgotten about this little thing called democracy. Oh and honesty. That one has still not been forgotten about.
PS And reverse the rise in tuition fees. It's a very expensive disaster in administrative terms, its wrecking social mobility and its turning one of the things that the UK does better than anyone else in the world - universities- into a series of second-rate businesses where all that matters are immediate efficiencies. This is not how great scientists, artists, journalists, scholars or other kinds of thinkers come to be.
For God's sake, have some guts and REVERSE IT. It would be the best red flag you could wave about actually standing for something different to the next generation.
Remove tuition fees.
Put someone in charge of schools who knows something about education and give them a team of educational specialist advisors that they have to listen to; same goes for health.
Recruit some MPs that didn't go to public school.
Increase the lower tax bracket.
Stop trying to force both parents back to work unless they want to, I really don't think it's good for society in the long-term.
Ed Mil will be the leader at the GE. We really don't have much time to get organised and unseat this bunch of vandals from power, so Ed step on the gas and get a willing public behind you. <hopes this thread is being beamed in to Lab. HQ. This is your potential decisive voting electorate..>
Labour will not win an election with Milliband as leader. That's my opinion. Somebody told me he can't be got rid of till he loses the election. That seems a bit mad.
People round here are beginning to think the Coalition have done a good job. Apparently its been tough but "worth it".
Get rid of Miliband/Balls and come up with some policies.
Sort out housing. This is the greatest problem we have, and it is storing up a world of problems for the future. A proper house building programme, building social homes for working families to rent at low prices would provide Jobs in the short term, stability for families in the long term, people would have money left over to spend, benefitting the economy, and the rent they paid would be going back into the community rather than into rich property owners' pockets. Win win. And my kids would t feel they had to move away from the local area in order to survive, meaning I could help support them with their kids, keeping local communities alive and sustainable.
I am with ocelot. Understand that many people want a true alternative, and many others could be sold on it if properly presented.
Renationalise everything. It's a no brainer that we are better off reinvesting profits from public services than handing them over to Serco's shareholders.
Put some money into legal aid.
Put some proper effort into fighting the ' Labour left us this mess' shite which I hear all the time and no-one seems to effectively counter.
I rather like Ed but he seems to think too much and say too little.
I will never vote to the right of Labour, although I could be swayed by Green and Plaid. I have sort of stuck with Labour as a coalition of the left but I don't see the leadership listening to the left of the party.
renationalisation is never going to happen whatever colour the govt. too many pension funds invested here the whole pension industry i.e. your pension would collapse and be worthless. if you have selection panels made up of one sort of person then that's who they are going to choose - someone just like them. make it fair and be radical. allow anyone who is a member of the party to vote OMOV to get a candidate they can get behind. wish all parties would do this. it might stop the rise of the bland in politics. not sure about John Smith tbh. Brown was their biggest disaster. hasn't even had a mention on this thread that's the legacy of his leadership.
not so sure about the pension thing and re-nationalisation of public services, unless you have specific and testable statistics for this? Pension funds would surely re-invest elsewhere. On the face of it it appears as a sort of Level One scare.
Sorry pans didn't mean it to read like some sort of scare. anything of course is doable if you are the govt but don't think anyone of any colour politics would risk another scandal/problem in the banking industry. you can only re-invest what you can re-sell which if an industry is nationalised is zilch. also think too many essential services that have been de-nationalised (i.e they were once owned by us) are now owned by foreign companies. they wont let their investments go down the pan either. whats needed is a tighter screw on them to control prices. stop pussyfooting around them and treating them with kid gloves. other countries with services in private hands manage it so why cant we.
oh sure regularising (?) the utilities has been an utter failure - because it was never really attempted! I guess my point was the flow of capital investment is incredibly fluid, and global, so returns on investments for pension funds are not restricted to the UK, no matter who actually owns the utilities.
I get a bit twitchy when anyone says 'you can't do it because the markets won't like it'. Well 'the markets' have royally fucked us up anyways.
You may be able to tell I have nooo global finance experience whatsoever, but the 'arguments for stasis' are less water-tight than a colander. Bankers would appear to be able to "hold the country to ransom" much as the same way they also accuse unions for having done so historically.
I haven't read the whole thread (will do) but I want them not to be a watered down version of the fecking coalition. Be their own party, stand up for public services, stop being so apologist about the deficit, realise that whilst the economy is clearly very important, so are other issues (health, environment, support for families and communities.) and get rid of Ed Milliband. I'm sure he's a nice guy, but he's not a strong leader. I despair really, I despise Cameron and Clegg, but can't bring myself to vote for milliband at the mo.
wel tbf no-one is actually voting for Milliband, are they? They would be voting for a more just society, and in an incredibly wealthy country (6th richest in the world). The personalities involved are pretty much a side show that the Tory media would want you to invest in. So don't let them succeed.
I want a fab new alternative party made of articulate state school educated MPs with sensible aims that are t put to line their own pockets. I reckon I'm not the only one-any takers?!
Umm.. the Milliband bros were state school educated - Ed, I am pretty sure isn't in it to line his pockets - he doesn't have that demand.
Read Twitter and other social media, see what people are saying, and get your arse in gear, if you want to re-gain trust.
Plenty of far from posh labour MPs in this neck of the woods, btw. Many from Labour Left.
Let teachers teach.
Forget licensing teachers.
Recognise the importance of extra curricular activities- clubs, exchanges, tours, productions and value the goodwill of teachers.
Learning walks and dialogue marking are nonsense.
Ensure that school management still teach and not just a token lesson.
Ensure more short breaks for families with disabled children.
I suspect that twitter and social media are not the sources of enquiry for the people who will actually vote in a Labour govt, or at least be the section that will tip the balance in the favour.
Ironically..using twitter..here is a taste of things to come IF the privatisation of the NHS continues. It's evidence of the economic damage done by private health system in the US.
poverty and losses of businesses due to outstanding medical bills
Clive Peedell is an oncologist consultant who has established the National Health Action Party, @NHAparty
You can feed into the policy review here I think. You can't unveil the manifesto too early before a General Election or the opposition steal the policies.
I'm ok with milliband, he hasn't shirked in the Murdoch or energy companies arguments - he just needs to do that for everything else
With the new political class everyone is baby Straw, Blair, Harman and straight from uni to spad with no real life experience so might as well stick with him
I would tell them they are disgusting corrupt scum.
Anybody who continues to vote for the 3 main parties or votes UKIP bears responsibility for allowing the festering pool of self serving corruption in government to continue.
Labour: are you listening?
Can someone who tweets please send this on?
My next suggestion: stop accepting this 'labour left this country in a mess'. crap. How did you let Cameron get away with this? Stop rolling over. Labour made real mistakes, but the whole world went into recession, not just the UK.
Stop colluding in your own downfall!
Pans I agree with you about the market. Oh we have to do such and such because of the market... Well didn't we invent the market economy to work for us, and can't we manipulate it if it ain't working, which it isn't? It makes me think of a primitive tribe sacrificing people to a volcano Out something... We have to feed some poor people to the economy beast!
Every incoming government blames its predecessors for bad stuff and takes credit for good stuff regardless of the truth. Wait and see the next lot do so too. It's meaningless.
Stella will probably listen to this. Mumsnet? Social Media? She'll be all over it.
Yes, countess, but labour just rolled over and took it. Every bit of it, to the stage where most of the country seem to think the recession was all labour's fault.
I've never voted for labour as the last election was the only one I've been able to vote in and Gordon brown wasn't an appealing prospect. I would say
The country needs to be less London/ south east centric
More help for small businesses and people wanting to set up new businesses
Get rid of all the targets and bureacracy in the public sector get doctors, nurses, teachers etc back to what they were trained to do
Increase social mobility
Medicine degrees are oversubscribed invest in universities so we don't need as many foreign doctors.
Just because towns like Grimsby and Redcar will always vote labour doesn't mean you should forget them
Do more help to help the high street
Do away with zero hours contracts
I don't want to see political spouses if they really feel their opinion counts they should run for office themselves
An EU referendum enough people want one it would be undemocratic not to have one.
Stop giving the likes of Branson train bids , buying banks when he's moving jobs out of the country.
MPs from the area they are representing
Lower cost of living and housing
Sort out the careers advice in schools. The system in place now is NOT working, some schools are meeting the requirement by a poster in a corridor - bloody disgraceful.
At the moment, the right wing media are pushing the "lazy, good-for-nothing British worker" in an attempt to justify exploiting immigrant workers.
Why hasn't the Labour party countered this? Why haven't they strongly defended, not only the rights of all workers to receive decent pay and conditions, but the reputation of the hardworking British people?
Get out there and convince all the apathetic non/floating voters that Labour does care about ordinary people, that all politicians are not the same powercrazed money grabbing idiots we've had since 2010.
Focus on getting education and the NHS back in shape and let's feel proud of the UK.
You're a bunch of numpties. Never try to
bankrupt run the country again. Go back to school
Because the labour lot are as privileged as the right mps
I hear tristin hunt is putting his children in boarding school and the Tory pm for education has put his children in a state school how times have changed
Stop saying spend more and more and more as a way of resolving the country's economic problems. Can't believe they are still spouting that silly old tale. It didn't work last time. It won't get a chance to work this time because people won't vote for it. I'm absolutely not voting labour next time though I have done for at the last three general elections.
IF, and it's a big if, Labour would do what everyone on this thread is saying then I would seriously consider voting for them.
That is a major change for me; I've previously always voted Tory, on the grounds that I did believe in some of their policies. However I am so disheartened by this lot that I cannot find anyone at all to vote for.
They used to say that one got more right wing as one got older... well I started out fairly left, veered rightish, and would now like to go back leftish again!
Miliband's response to the Budget at lunchtime was totally feeble in the Commons. Balls is now talking balls on Sky.
I hear tristin hunt is putting his children in boarding school
Hunt has his kid in state school, (as I think was pointed out to you in another thread about this), and has says that he's planning to do the same for his other children when they reach school age.
'said' - I blame my state education
Bring back community care. Those of us that have disabilities/need help and everything being cut to the bone which is marginalising us even more.
Just heard millibland on 5live and another labour politician from the treasury. honestly, it was painful. the usual crap about - too little too late, hard working families, nasty bankers. change the bloody record. the labour guy was asked outright would you keep the benefit cap? he fudged it and refused to answer. they have to have answers. they have to have credible policies. on todays showing, don't know who would vote for them, certainly not me at the moment. get the top tier out. they are tarnished, damaged goods. get in a brand new team with radical ideas who think, right we have lost the next election so lets say what we really think and want to do and bring people along with us long term.
I don't understand why they don't throw him out? Do they have no-one in the party who actually cares about changing the Government?
l like Ed but it's pretty clear he's not winning over voters. I doubt they will get rid of him though. The Labour Party has traditionally kept leaders in well beyond their shelf life.
Who else for leader? I like Yvette Cooper a lot. Am I alone?
It's almost as though they don't really want to win the next election.
Merry mouse- exactly so, they seem hellbent on losing it.
Add message | Report | Message poster Catkinsthecatinthehat Wed 19-Mar-14 15:37:53
NO*i clearly heard him say when it came to secondary he wouldn't rule out private school or boarding*
I'm a Labour member and activist. And I'm exasperated - absolutely agree that Ed Miliband is not the right leader. You don't ever look at him and think "potential future PM". There's no charisma in Ed - much as I think he's a good man. Labour at the moment are reactive, seldom proactive. They're often slow to even be reactive. We need a clear message - it's not enough to say "Coalition policies are bad and this is why" - we need to know how they would be different, in clear, concise terms.
There's a consultation on Labour's policy programme at the moment - here. I hope something good comes out of it - something inspiring.
And I realise I'm virtually alone in the world in thinking this, but I still think Ed Balls would be a good leader.
Stop with these robotic freaks chanting their soundbites who don't believe in anything and can't do anything.
You know, it does matter. I've met a lot of interesting Labour Party members but they didn't do PPE at Oxford so they don't "get on" in the party. If Labour can't figure out how to make it possible for ordinary people to thrive in the Labour Party, I hold out no hope for them doing so in the country in general.
We've got to reduce immigration, it's lowering wages and allowing employers to pay less to foreign workers, reducing employment and opportunities for Britons. Immigration is capitalism at its worst when uncontrolled.
I don't know what their vision is for the country. What's the plan? Why don't we do something properly exciting and new? Is it just impossible and we should all just kill ourselves now because that's what they come off as thinking.
Raspberry Pi is English and awesome. Why don't we give every school child a Pi and some server space? Why don't we think about getting public wifi provision? We could have a dev hour every night where anyone can get online for free (in a city) so kids can do homework and people can tinker.
Why don't we hook up the universities and the NHS and get robotics into people's homes like Robots for Humanity and so on in the US. Why don't we go into space and mine asteroids for resources? Why don't we sack off these wind farms that are not very good and figure out wave power when we've got this amazing resource in the Gulf Stream? Why don't we throw up an airB&B type booking system for jobs instead of the horror of the JobSearch thing. Why is everything so rubbish, ITwise, that the government does? Why don't we just run Linux like the French? Why don't we build a Hyperloop? Why don't we rewood all our cleared, yet unused, farmland and start to sort the flooding?
Why don't we DO ANYTHING about anything? Why do all politicians just piss and moan and repeat their stock phrases. What is the point of them if they can't DO anything?
Get a proper leader. Get rid of the Eds and bring back David Miliband. He's the only one who might possibly lead you to victory in the next election.
Bring some prosecutions and make some examples to make people take the existing law against FGM seriously.
Rent controls and tenants' rights - we are a growing proportion of the electorate.
Make it a lot less attractive to be a btl landlord. Houses should be homes, not investments.
Referendum on PR to make everyone's vote count (I live in the SE - why do only Tory votes count?)
Save our NHS.
No more state-funded faith schools, 'collective worship' in schools and bishops in the HoL.
Bring house prices back within the reach of normal people.
Reverse spiteful Tory benefits changes.
.... not necessarily in that order!
Also, I like you Ed!
That all 6 of my local labour mps answer the emails ive sent from a month ago and HELP us.
that I thought Milliband spoke brilliantly today in the budget speech.
absolutl;y spot on.
if he keeps promise about scrapping the bedroom tax hell get my vote.
cant stand that bloody shiny face smugeron.
scrap this 'human rights' crap for criminals. and the deportation fiasco.
tougher jail sentences.
MORE help, ANY help for disabled and their carers.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Same old shit!!
Labour going to say Yes to Tory welfare cap
Don't feel obliged to come back with instant responses to rubbish policies but think properly first
For example backing the terrible pensions idea
Get rid of MPs' second homes, give them a hall of residence instead.
Recruit MP's who have worked in the real world first (for at least ten years).
Make wealthy criminals pay for the cost of prison (and I mean really pay: make them sell their mansions and other assets, especially when they have lots of them.)
Tony Blair: get him in prison where he belongs, take the grinning fucker down a peg or two. (His assets could be very useful to the state indeed, if they were confiscated; see above.)
Stop the handwringing 'cost of living crisis' campaign. Most of the issues with cost of living spiralled out of control under the las t labour government (utilities and housing) but was masked by the huge economic boom so no one noticed. Very hard to take them seriously when they take no responsibility for out of control house prices etc.
Have some actual polices. I have no idea what Labour stand for any more.
Regulate the housing industry, i.e. estate and letting agents, private landlords. No-one should be fucked over trying to have a roof over their heads.
Renationalise the utility companies. No-one should be fucked over just trying to stay warm or cook a meal.
Reduce student fees dramtically. Make some courses, such as science based ones, free.
Bring back apprenticeships, but don't have an age limit on them so that adults can retrain.
Close the tax loopholes
No privatisation in the NHS
"I think leaders with charisma are part of the problem"
Totally agree, Temporarilyjerry. I don't want a "charismatic" leader, I just want a fair and honest one.
To those who have said they have no idea who to vote for if they can't vote Labour and don't want the tories in, have you considered the Green Party? I was rather impressed watching a YouTube video on them at a press conference. They seemed to have put a lot of thought into how their policies would work and they held up to argument. Shame they are seen as not worth voting for by many because they reckon they don't have the might to beat the main 3 in the elections I'd love to see the back of the main 3, and that's without allowing UKIP in!
Yes, I'm not bothered about a good leader if the whole party/government is any good.
Get rid of Ed. Simply not credible on an international level.
The Labour party died and was buried along with John Smith. It has not had an honest and effective leader since.
I whole heartedly agree with this, he was a man who you could warm to and trust just by looking at him.
You need to look at your old school MPs and learn valuable lessons from their passion and commitment:
just to name a few.
Labour is supposed to advocate socialism looking after all in society.
I would also like to see Labour if they get elected to bring David Cameron, Gideon, IDS, McVey and their cohorts to book for their systematic sadistic actions that have brought this country to the sad state it is in.
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