To think that this father is overly obsessed with his daughter?

(105 Posts)
Intrigued14 Fri 14-Mar-14 15:16:50

Long post, really sorry.

I began a relationship with a man who seemed really quite sweet at first, really kind, understanding, funny and easy to talk to. He's in his late 20's and has a young daughter under 5.

At the time we met, he revealed that he and the mother of his child had been in a long-term relationship since his teens (over 10 years) and she is quite a bit older than him - they had outgrown each other apparently but had a civil relationship. What he didn't tell me immediately was that he had been married/divorced to this woman. He had been single for two years prior to meeting me and only had two very brief flings. But he was ready to settle down.

To begin with things went really well, he appeared to be a devoted dad. He lives close to his ex and sees his daughter often - on an almost daily basis. He has pictures of her and toys all over the house, T-shirts with her face on that he showed me. His profile picture on WhatsApp, is of her and only ever of her. He does not socialise with friends unless his daughter is present and it's a family type affair. Now I am already a mother, so it wasn't necessarily a bad thing to see.

However, some time into the relationship I started to notice that if he even went a day without seeing his daughter when he wanted to it would affect his mood, he would make angry comments about father's for justice/his rights and whatnot and become stroppy. He told me once that looking into her eyes he could see 'things' (relating to love ones he had lost, or something...his late nan had taught him) and that I wouldn't 'get' it as most people don't. And he made a series of inappropriate comparisons to his daughter when listing the most important people in his life, telling me once that only she could ever 'hurt' him.

At one point his ex informed him that she was going abroad for 3 weeks to see family, she gave him plenty of advance notice. He became immediately angry and depressed by this, told me he was going to bed and began to act like someone who was grieving. He told me that without her he had nothing, and that I wouldn't understand. He went silent on me on/off for 3 weeks, and began writing tortured statuses about what he was going through so I gave him time alone, and once his daughter returned he went back to normal like it had never happened.

Over a period of time...probably too long, I felt that there was just no future between us (there were also other factors involved) so I ended it. He didn't want to end it but we had a discussion and he said he understood.

A month later I found out I was pregnant. When I told him about the baby (a girl) he was upset and attempted to hide it from his family...so I told them myself. I later found out I'd annoyed him even further because he was apparently in the hospital with his daughter when I told them and that had offended him (?)

He subsequently told me that he has a daughter already, and he couldn't imagine loving any child like he loves her (this is despite the fact he works in teaching, has two nieces and a goddaughter who calls him dad and he seems to adore them all, takes them out as a group etc.). He has subsequently advised his family not to communicate with me and wants nothing to do with this child who is due in a matter of weeks.

The last contact I had with him, I was told "good luck and all the best with your future". Is there something wrong here...I just don't get it.

CabbagesAndKings Fri 14-Mar-14 15:27:43

It's horrible, but I think you should probably be a bit relieved- he sounds like very hard work and it looks as though your daughter will never live up to his first one

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen Fri 14-Mar-14 15:29:08

I'm not sure I do either tbh...

MarmaladeShatkins Fri 14-Mar-14 15:33:47

Why did you allow yourself to get pregnant by such an oddball? Sorry, I'm not trying to be unhelpful but it sounds like you've been unsure of him for a while.

I think you're best off out of it, to be honest. He sounds a hundred different kinds of weird.

Lots of luck with your baby. [flowes]

There's no point in looking for an explanation for other folks weirdness.

At least you won't have to deal with him if he's not interested. Small blessings.

NigellasDealer Fri 14-Mar-14 15:37:24

he sounds really really odd i think you had a lucky escape flowers

FannyFifer Fri 14-Mar-14 15:40:24

Good god he sounds like a total weirdo.
I would cease all communication with him to be honest.

formerbabe Fri 14-Mar-14 15:41:11

Not a completely lucky escape...she's pregnant with his baby!

daisychain01 Fri 14-Mar-14 15:42:46

intrigued As you mention that it is also his child, surely he has got to man-up to his real-world responsibilities, whatever his strong head-in-the-clouds extremely weird obsessive feelings are towards his other child?

You still need practical support, don't you?

He may feel he can easily pick and choose over "well, I love this person but I can't imagine that person" ... um .... that he helped to create??? but he isn't the important one, that child is the priority.

The convenient 'fob-off' good luck and all that, doesn't necessarily have to be the last of it, even if he thinks it will just wash his hands of the situation.

It isn't about "what have I done wrong?", its about him being brought back to reality - either via CSA or by both of you negotiating (a) financial support for your child (b) arrangements for him to have a relationship with that child, who at least have the right to that as a starting point (whether he will be a good father is up to him).

Or have I got it all wrong ....

daisychain01 Fri 14-Mar-14 15:43:35

formerbabe - that's where I'm coming from - lucky escape hasn't got anything to do with it!

mymiraclebubba Fri 14-Mar-14 15:43:47

Definitely a lucky escape and a very unique and unnatural obsession with his elder daughter!!!! Make sure you get what you deserve via csa and then thank your lucky stars!

formerbabe Fri 14-Mar-14 15:45:01

Thank her lucky stars for what?!

Trooperslane Fri 14-Mar-14 15:45:51

So sorry op.

What nigella said thanks

TheKnightsThatSayNee Fri 14-Mar-14 15:46:10

Lucky escape for your dd. I think you should be glad.

Nomama Fri 14-Mar-14 15:46:26

Keep that last message...

Now, have the kid and F Off to somewhere he can't find you.

He is weird and you don't need it! Nor will your daughter!

DoJo Fri 14-Mar-14 15:48:38

There are elements of this which seem perfectly normal - he is a devoted dad who isn't happy with the fact that he doesn't live with his daughter and overcompensates for that in ways which seem inappropriate.

His refusal to engage with your pregnancy might be a means to protect himself from this situation occurring again. He already knows that he will not be able to live with your child, and presumably would find it very hard to split his time between two daughters, especially given how attentive he is to his first child.

Whilst I can see that this was a destructive relationship for you, and that his behaviour since you split has been rude and dismissive, I don't necessarily think that his relationship with his daughter is that weird. If my son was going away for three weeks without my say so, I think I would be sad whilst he was away and be dreading it from the moment I knew until the he was back - I might not mope around or make such a performance out of it, but I would miss him terribly and probably be pretty down in the run-up to his departure until he returned.

The stuff about looking in her eyes and ranking everyone behind her in terms of whether they could hurt him is a bit odd, but maybe he is just expressing himself poorly or trying too hard to cement their bond.

NoodleOodle Fri 14-Mar-14 15:50:01

Are you going to try to encourage him to have a relationship with the child? If so, how, it doesn't seem like he wants to - what can you do in this situation?

WTFlike Fri 14-Mar-14 15:50:23

His poor ex-wife. Imagine having to deal with an ex like that? For 18 years!

OP, RUN LIKE THE WIND

Viviennemary Fri 14-Mar-14 15:50:23

The way he has treated you is dreadfful. You are well rid of him. He sounds a bit emotionally unstable to me. And I agree with the poster who said there is sometimes no explanation for other people's weirdness.

TestingTestingWonTooFree Fri 14-Mar-14 15:50:39

He does very strange. He might change when the baby arrives.

He sounds obsessed! Poor child. I hope whatever kind of contact he eventually has with your dd you keep a close eye on things

hoobypickypicky Fri 14-Mar-14 16:01:04

"Now, have the kid and F Off to somewhere he can't find you.

He is weird and you don't need it! Nor will your daughter!"

You've dodged a bullet. Make sure it stays that way. A relationship between your child and this man won't end well. She'll either be rejected, as per his messages to you, or he'll turn about face and try to suffocate her by making her his reason for existing just as he has his other child. Whichever it is your child will have a very dysfunctional, uneasy and unhappy time of it and you will be in the middle trying to second guess his every whim and mood.

I don't say this lightly

DISAPPEAR.

Don't put him on the birth cert. Just move, get away while you have the chance.

Wow.

Odd.

Very odd confused

CuppaSarah Fri 14-Mar-14 16:04:10

Does he have mental health issues? Some of what you've said has struck a chord with how my sister is with my DD when she is having a difficult period.

TheDietStartsTomorrow Fri 14-Mar-14 16:05:37

He sounds very strange and extremely over the top. I think your lucky not to be in a relationship with him anymore but at the same time, your daughter when she's born, has the right to have contact with her father. I think you could try and see how it goes but make an early decision as to whether the relationship is beneficial for her or not. If not then wash your hands of him for good.

He might come round. When I had my first baby and was pregnant with my second I used to have moments when I secretly wondered how I could love another child. Obviously I realised as soon as my second DS was born that I was capable of loving them both totally and equally but there was a point when I was unsure. He might also just need to be given a chance with your DD and maybe he'll also fall in love with her.

The intensity of his love for his first DD is totally inappropriate. I'd be wary and keep an eye on the relationship with your own DD should you choose to allow him in her life. Nip it in the bud if he starts getting weird.

Out of curiosity, how old is his first DD and how does she respond to his over eagerness?

YouTheCat Fri 14-Mar-14 16:06:42

What Hooby said.

PeterParkerSays Fri 14-Mar-14 16:11:04

I'm trying to imagine the relationship between this man and his current daughter when she's a teenager. I would have real concerns about him not letting her grow up and be independent. I would say that your baby is better off being away from such a dynamic, she'll feel rejected and unworthy of him whilst the older DD struggles to live up to his expectations.

msmoss Fri 14-Mar-14 16:12:38

The benefit of the doubt explanation is that I think he sounds incredibly sad about the fact that he can't be in his daughter's life everyday and possibly his reaction is to your pregnancy is based on him feeling like he can't cope with living separately from another child. However, he should really find a way of managing those emotions and dealing with them like an adult as the way he behaves is unacceptable and quite odd.

Not sure what you can do about this though.

Have you discussed his behaviour with anyone else in his family or with this ex-wife?

msmoss Fri 14-Mar-14 16:12:54

his ex-wife I mean

Intrigued14 Fri 14-Mar-14 16:16:55

Thanks for replying everyone,

I'd just like to add - He didn't always come across as strange, it was more of a snowball effect type thing over a long period of time. He actually comes across as quite nice - he's very attractive, friendly, goes out of his way for family/friends, and most people don't have a bad word to say about him!

...then again, they don't know what I know.

Things seemed to really go downhill after his daughter's holiday, and it was there that it began to have an impact on our relationship. I did actually sit him down and speak to him about his daughter and whether he was even ready to devote himself long-term relationship and he claimed that's what he wanted...he was very sure about that.

The pregnancy, well no excuses we were not careful all the time. I have PCOS and only one fallopian tube (a small chance of ever getting pregnant again naturally I was told - he was not aware of this) so risks were taken. When I found out, despite things being over I felt it was a last chance for me and decided to proceed not really expecting the whole "I could never love another child speech". He has become increasingly odd and hostile since that moment. Not really sure who I met now.

DoJo This is really why I asked the question. I wonder to some degree whether he is just overcompensating. He did explain to me how disappointed he was that he has a failed marriage behind him, and that he didn't want his daughter to ever hear or see animosity between them - hence their friendship. To be honest I'm not sure that his ex makes things any better. Whilst on holiday she sent him a series of videos showing his daughter crying for him...why? I don't know. But sitting there trying to comfort him over that was extremely difficult.

He also mentioned that he didn't want to be the type of guy with multiple kids, multiple women etc because we were no longer together. He broke down in tears a few times over it, I felt sorry for him, but it seems the upset turned to anger. He claims to hate me and not the baby...at one point saying he'd bought her clothes! But he's shut me out from ever trying to contact him. The door is open...

TheHoneyBadger Fri 14-Mar-14 16:19:23

i agree it's weird but it isn't that unusual. failed marriage, daughter on a pedestal and centre of everything that nothing and no one will measure up to. it's like a safe place to put their whole emotional life, in a little princess that can't break up with him and so is safe. not fair to a child imo. it's way too much weight even if it seems like being spoiled initially.

as for your baby just try to enjoy it and have things as chill and nice as you can when the baby is born and nest and bond, and help siblings bond with it. keep things simple and healthy which imo means not, for now, worrying about him and the why's and how's and stuff. let him choose for now if he's around, text when baby is born etc but don't push anything. focus on your family and getting settled and making sure everyone is secure and ok and see if he makes an approach. i'd say leave worrying what to do about it till the baby is at least six months old.

those first few months are so important to you, the new baby and your other child/ren. don't let anything spoil them. whatever the situation with him it will still be there six months later.

AFishCalledBarry Fri 14-Mar-14 16:25:32

I think it's really sad that so many people are dismissing him immediately as weird. I'd say he is clearly devoted to his DD, which is admirable. The fact that he makes a point of seeing her every day would obviously make a three week stretch incredibly difficult. I couldn't begin to imagine having to go three weeks without seeing my own DD.

I would say that rather than him being weird he's more likely to have mental health issues. He wants to do everything right by his DD and he's having a very difficult time accepting the idea of balancing his life between two DDs. I'm not excusing his behaviour towards you regarding your pregnancy, but I do think he could do with a little more understanding.

ThingsThatGoBumpInTheNight Fri 14-Mar-14 16:25:37

Ugh you totally dodged a bullet there

My ex was like this over our son, he has one child, ours, and refuses to entertain the idea that his new gf may one day want a child of her own, she has none, and I truly think he would leave her if she fell pregnant 'by accident' as he says, I've told her I don't want to be a da of kids with multiple women'

Such a shame as she is lovely, he was and still is absolutely hideous and obsessed with the idea one day we may get back together confused
Don't think so mate, ds is 16 now that ship has sailed lol

Op, on the step parenting board I see lots of women saying similar things and they had to go for family counselling because their DH/DP had turned their dsd into a 'mini wife'

Agree with others, run and don't look back x

TheHoneyBadger Fri 14-Mar-14 16:33:46

he looks into her eyes and sees things, he romantisises her to the only the person who could ever hurt him... it IS weird and isn't devotion in the healthy sense it's objectification and projecting his needs and his whole emotional life onto her.

Intrigued14 Fri 14-Mar-14 16:36:45

CuppaSarah - I'm not sure, possibly depression? He comes from a rather odd family, and moved out at an early age. His mother is a childish woman, who is also an alcoholic with chronic health problems. He has a brother (supposedly the black sheep of the family, he was a once semi-famous sports star who threw his career away, he is apparently rude and very hostile for no apparently reason), and a sister who seems nice but all over the place.

TheDietStartsTomorrow She's 3 and seems perfectly happy I think.

msmoss I agree with you, I have spoken to his sister and via someone else to his mother. They are supporting him and have decided not to be involved with this child. His ex is close to a decade older than me and though I know people who know her, I felt it wasn't my place to discuss this with her. I do wonder if he is worried how a new baby will impact her and how she lets him interact with his daughter, as it's proof he has 'moved on' so to speak.

TheHoneyBadger Thank you, I think you may be right. I guess time will tell what happens with this child. Thank you for the advice.

coco44 Fri 14-Mar-14 16:46:57

I don't think he sounds weird or inappropriate,When my Dcs were that young I would have felt blue not being able to see them everyday.But it's inappropriate in a man?

HandsOffMyGazBaz Fri 14-Mar-14 16:57:02

I think you are focusing on the wrong thing here. It matters not what this guys issue is, those are not questions you will ever get the answer to.
Your job now is to look after you and the new baby.
That means remove stress, eat well, make that baby feel loved and make sure that this guy does not shirk his responsibilities. If he doesnt want to see the baby, his choice. But he made her too and she needs to eat and be clothed and live in a house so get to the CSA. Know your rights.

Oh and for gods sake, no matter what he says when the baby is born, DO NOT GET BACK WITH HIM!!!

needaholidaynow Fri 14-Mar-14 17:00:25

Do NOT keep in contact with him! For your child's sake. You can give them all the love he/she needs without him. He would just completely fuck your child's head up if they knew they have a sister who he loves more than them an e only wants to see her. Fuck him. His loss.

Make sure you remind him everyday about the child he has with you though by putting in a claim for child maintenance. You don't need to speak to him directly, but the communication from the CSA will be a constant reminder that he can't just have one child, conceive another and decide he doesn't want anything to do with the second one because his love for His first is just "too strong". He needs to get a grip.

hoobypickypicky Fri 14-Mar-14 17:03:19

"He does not socialise with friends unless his daughter is present"
"if he even went a day without seeing his daughter when he wanted to it would affect his mood"
"he would make angry comments about father's for justice/his rights and whatnot and become stroppy"
"He told me once that looking into her eyes he could see 'things'"
"He became immediately angry" when given advance notice by the ex that his child was going on a holiday to visit family.
"he was going to bed and began to act like someone who was grieving"
"he went silent on me on/off for 3 weeks"
"When I told him about the baby (a girl) he was upset and attempted to hide it from his family"

And you don't think any of this is weird, coco44? Honestly?

It's not just weird it's bordering on, if not actually, controlling. I hate to be sensationalist but the whole child's absence affecting his mood/becoming "stroppy"/making "angry comments"/becoming "immediately angry"/going silent on the OP is quite disturbing. I wouldn't want him near me (and I'm no shrinking violet), never mind near my baby.

fromparistoberlin73 Fri 14-Mar-14 17:07:18

wow

I agree with whoever said to NOT have his name on the birth cert, he sounds weird as fuck and not someone you want in your DDs life TBH

that said, my friend is with a guy who lost his child through custody- he has the same greiving thing which I do understand- but this man is vvv strange

good luck OP xxxxx

seriously, i'll not be seeing DD until next week and it definitely affects my mood. He sounds like hard work though, OP.

RedHelenB Fri 14-Mar-14 17:18:03

I'm sorry, but this baby has a right to know it's father no matter what you think of him. Wait until the baby is born, you may well find things change then. In the meantime concentrate on you and the baby.

hoobypickypicky Fri 14-Mar-14 17:25:03

RedHelen, the baby does have rights in law - but what happened to common sense and a sense of preservation, both for the OP and for the child?

IMHO, for what it's worth, it's far more important for the OP to protect her baby and to make decisions in the baby's best interests and with consideration for the baby's welfare, safety and long term security according to the situation the OP and her child are in, than it is to follow the one size fits all demand that the baby's "rights" are paramount. It's fine to adhere to the baby's rights argument in a case where the child is denied contact with the father for no good reason but here, I think, there's every reason to take an entirely different view.

HandsOffMyGazBaz Fri 14-Mar-14 17:31:26

He doesnt WANT to see the baby RedHelenB

Glasshammer Fri 14-Mar-14 17:31:40

I would feel like a limb had been torn from me if I couldn't be with my children.

I think if he sees his new baby, it will probably change his feelings.

Nomama Fri 14-Mar-14 17:31:50

But this may be a case for OP to suddenly remember she is a total slut and the father could be absolutely anyone!

It depends on just how much she thinks the weirdness he has already shown is too much for her to handle.

Personally, I think that the 3 weeks in bed to (unsuccesfully) force those nasty alien abductors to bring his dear heart back to him, is more than enough to convince me!

LessMissAbs Fri 14-Mar-14 17:35:00

He may struggle with inter-personal relationships, and ironically, with letting go of people in his life, which is why he might find a relationship with a young child easier.

I agree he is an oddball.

I don't think being initially confused over an unplanned pregnancy when he already has one child whose mother he is not with is all that unusual. He may change his mind in time...

GimmeDaBoobehz Fri 14-Mar-14 17:40:32

How very strange.

I think you've probably had a lucky escape - he wont be involved in your child's life (to possibly make her dysfunctional too) and I am sure you will provide a loving, supportive life for your daughter.

It's his loss and your gain. What if he was like that with your daughter -- it would be a bit much, wouldn't it?

RedHelenB Fri 14-Mar-14 17:42:38

Not now but there's nothing to see yet! Just give it time. things can & do change.

Foodylicious Fri 14-Mar-14 17:43:58

It may be hard, but I would shut that door and have nothing to do with him.

For both your sakes.

Good luck!

MistressDeeCee Fri 14-Mar-14 17:48:12

What a strange man. At the very least, his DD is a prop for him in life, as a cover excuse for other stuff he doesn't want to face. Your post is bordering on creepy. Poor girl...when she grows up she'd better play 'daddy's little girl' forever or he won't be 'nice kind daddy'. Any potential boyfriend/lifepartner will no doubt run a mile. On the other hand she could want to get away from her suffocating daddy and just remove herself from his life, at which point he'll be no use to anybody including himself, as he will be so distraught.

Whatever it is, sorry to hear of his callousness OP - this is a man who doesn't want to face responsibility. He can run around his daughter as its easy for him to remain a King in her eyes. You are far better off without him. Make sure he doesn't dodge his financial responsibilities to your DC though. Apart from that, you will be happier without this strange man in your life, I feel.

Ohwhatfuckeryisthis Fri 14-Mar-14 17:49:40

I'm probably going to be shot down, but are or could you be you in contact with exw? How does she feel about this outright freakiness? Maybe she may accept a weird ally?
For you, no way would he be on bc, and I'd run like the wind.

LettertoHermioneGranger Fri 14-Mar-14 17:55:57

I think the difficulty here is parts seem completely reasonable - nothing wrong with being a devoted dad, having a difficult time not living with your child, being upset to not see her for three weeks. That would be considered completely normal for a mother with shared custody, and should be for a father, which I think confuses it more - you think, well, there's nothing wrong with this, of course a father should feel this way.

But it isn't his feelings that are the problem. It's his behavior. Going into rages, acting angry, writing 'tortured statuses', that shows he's unstable and can't handle his emotions. His reaction to your pregnancy is strange, and he does come off as controlling.

If I was in your position OP, I truly wouldn't want this man in my child's life. I would not feel safe, or that it was the best decision for my child. I do think a child's well-being and safety trumps their 'right to know their father'. Plenty of children would be better off without knowing their damaging or abusive fathers. To be completely honest, I would not have told him of the pregnancy, and as you have, like another poster suggested, I might suddenly remember that I wasn't faithful and the baby is probably not his. Dishonest and probably an opinion that will get me flamed, but you have to do what you need to for your child's welfare.

Fifyfomum Fri 14-Mar-14 17:59:37

I am so shocked by how many people are suggesting to go no contact without a single thought for the child in all of this!

Maybe she will want to know her dad? For all his faults and come to that conclusion herself?

MistressDeeCee Fri 14-Mar-14 18:03:32

I cant see that it even matters whether people are suggesting no contact or not. This man has said he doesn't want to know his child anyway. So there will be no contact, due to his choice. He can't be forced to be in contact with his child aside from financial maintenance, can he?

Alisvolatpropiis Fri 14-Mar-14 18:07:51

He sounds very odd indeed.

Devoted dad - excellent

Devoted to the point he refuses to acknowledge any other child of his own - weirdo.

Intrigued14 Fri 14-Mar-14 18:20:22

Thank you everyone, it's given me some things to think about.

Ohwhatfuckeryisthis I'm not in contact with his ex, but my spidey senses actually make me think she plays on his behaviour a bit.

For example, when we first began dating she would send him pictures of his daughter in the middle of the night when we were together 11pm/12am. The holiday as I mentioned she sent him pictures of his daughter crying, surely knowing how he would react.

It's funny because he told me the girl before me he briefly dated also had a problem with it. Apparently she once called him when he was out with his ex and daughter at a bday party and asked him how he was. His reply was that he was with his daughter doing such and such...her response was "I didn't ask about your daughter". He also said she made strange faces when he was showing off pictures of his daughter his ex had sent. I thought it was rude at the time, but all this time later I think there were other issues she picked up on like myself.

The replies on this thread have given me a lot to think about, and basically confirmed that no contact is probably the best way forward. Initially I was desperate to establish some kind of friendship (we were good friends at first) and for him to see the baby. As time has gone on, I agree with those who said my daughter may never compete with his eldest...I wouldn't want her to pick up on that or to feel inferior because of his own peculiarities. I was going to inform him about the birth, but I don't know whether it's even worth it. She's actually due at the same time as his eldest's bday which is probably yet another insult to him.

The situation will always remain strange to me because like I said, he is a part time teaching assistant and loves his job. He also has two nieces and a goddaughter and he also loves them to death...not like his daughter, but he plays a father-like role in their lives. He even confessed to me that he sees his eldest niece more than her own father (his brother) sees her. When his brother attacked her mother at 8 months pregnant he took her in, and when his brother refused to attend scans - he went with her. Yet he refused to attend mine, and also said he doesn't want his name on the birth certificate.

"IT [the baby] is all yours" was his response to that!

TheVictorian Fri 14-Mar-14 18:21:00

He seems a bit strange.

Intrigued14 Fri 14-Mar-14 18:28:06

MistressDeeCee Yep, he said he isn't interested, but has also said that it is me personally that he has the problem with (no explanation as to why) and not the baby, and that he has bought her things...that he would never neglect a child etc. He has looked up my new postcode to find out where I am living (by calling a cab station I used).

Then the next minute he is basically telling me good luck with my life and please p-off. He even wanted to arrange a 'meeting' at one point with myself, a friend of mine, and a family member of his to state this openly...so everyone knew. That was bizarre to me and I refused to meet him.

There have been some mixed messages, so I am not sure whether there is a possibility he may pop up at some point after the birth to be nosy, to be involved in her life, or if he truly does not want to be involved...which seems most likely at the moment.

The more I'm writing down, the more I actually think I need to just move on sharpish.

hoobypickypicky Fri 14-Mar-14 18:29:15

"Maybe she will want to know her dad? For all his faults and come to that conclusion herself?"

Yes, because the judgement of a small child in possession of only half the facts is far more sensible than that of an adult woman with the child's best interests at heart and all the facts at her disposal, isn't it?

To quote LetterToHermioneGrainger, "I do think a child's well-being and safety trumps their 'right to know their father'."

HandsOffMyGazBaz Fri 14-Mar-14 18:30:54

Do you want to get back with him OP?

hoobypickypicky Fri 14-Mar-14 18:30:56

"He has looked up my new postcode to find out where I am living (by calling a cab station I used)."

WTF? Intrigued14, run. Just run.

MistressDeeCee Fri 14-Mar-14 18:38:28

Intrigued14 he probably wouldnt have a problem with you personally if you were happy and comfortable with him fawning over his daughter to an extent that is most strange. You sound pretty astute - go on with your life and raise your DD as best you can. What he has done is a real shame, and thats putting it mildly..but at least you wont have his strangeness to put up with. I dont think many women WOULD be able to put up with him, actually. Build the best lives for yourselves that you can

hoobypickypicky

"Maybe she will want to know her dad? For all his faults and come to that conclusion herself?"

Yes, because the judgement of a small child in possession of only half the facts is far more sensible than that of an adult woman with the child's best interests at heart and all the facts at her disposal, isn't it?

Exactly.

TeaAndALemonTart Fri 14-Mar-14 18:49:56

He sounds like a lunatic

Fifyfomum Fri 14-Mar-14 18:58:34

I cannot see anywhere that suggests this man would be abusive or a danger to his child.

Which are the only reasons to refuse to allow a relationship between a parent and a child.

Beyond that, it is simply not your choice to make, it is the childs choice to make.

Odaat Fri 14-Mar-14 19:18:34

Yeh he sounds weird ...
Initially felt sad for him, as I know how I would feel if I couldn't see my dd as much as Id like. But all the other stuff you talk of suggests he is just a big bowl of wrong!

theeternalstudent Fri 14-Mar-14 19:35:28

Correct me if I'm wrong but you can't put the fathers name on the birth certificate if he is not there at the time. So, unless he goes with the OP to the registrars there will be no opportunity to name him on the birth certificate.

Fifyfomum Fri 14-Mar-14 21:37:08

You're right theeternal but you also can't morally stand in the way of a parent/child relationship just because you are worried the father might dote too much.

That is not good enough reason to refuse all contact, if in the future he asks for contact. If he doesn't want to get to know his second child than that is his cross to bear and explain.

MrsKermittSmith Sat 15-Mar-14 13:57:30

I think you may need more advice on this than Mumsnet can give, he sounds to me as if he is unstable and has some kind of mental health issue (I am not qualified to say of course but the red flags are practically a whole washing line of red duvet covers). He sounds stalkery.

WilsonFrickett Sat 15-Mar-14 14:10:19

Are posters missing the fact that op wanted contact, it is the X who is telling op to feck off? Yes, contact with a parent should be the child's decision but it is the X who is taking this choice away, not op.

Op I would go nc as far as registering the birth. Do not put him in the birth cert. but I do think you should give him one more chance once the baby is here. If he doesn't take it, fine. Close the door.

TheHoneyBadger Sat 15-Mar-14 14:47:56

if he doesn't take the chance after the baby is born and he is paying maintenance (that tends to wake people to the reality of the child being ill) then at that point i really would move away if i could and not allow him my address.

the danger is that he will use your child if/when he gets to see less of his first dd due to his ex starting a new family or moving away or even his dd growing up and asserting some boundaries and him becoming the scorned lover and rejecting her in return. then suddenly he may want to play daddy with your child and come with all the initial weirdness plus the extra baggage of one dd having disappointed him by not being the perfect object of his affections already.

TheHoneyBadger Sat 15-Mar-14 14:49:36

and no i don't think women should have to put with weirdos and massive disturbances to their lives and that of their children in order to support 'the right to know one's father'. if a child when old enough expresses a desire to see them and understands the issues and is emotionally able to handle it then i'd facilitate them seeing them. i wouldn't just inflict it on a baby and myself out of principle if i genuinely thought we'd be better off without his madness in our lives.

TheHoneyBadger Sat 15-Mar-14 14:52:13

sorry another post!

i also think this 'rights of the child to know their father' is complete and utter false labeling.

a child has zero rights to know it's father who can walk away and never see them and isn't even legally compelled in common law to financially support them. what we really have is men's rights to see their child no matter whether it is best for the child or not, even if they've ignored the child for ten years and their arrival will cause massive disruption, even if they have drug and alcohol problems, even if they've been physically or sexually abusive in the past etc.

calling it the child's right to see their father is beyond a misnomer - it's perverse really.

DracuLaura Sat 15-Mar-14 15:18:19

He can see "things" in her eyes. How fucking bizarre.

If I were you OP I would run and not look back, especially after the postcode incident.

DracuLaura Sat 15-Mar-14 15:20:44

Brilliant post, HoneyBadger. Agree whole heartedly.

Imnotmadeofeyes Sat 15-Mar-14 16:00:45

He does sound, well, very maternal.

Even from the reactions on this thread I can see how it would be difficult for a man to reconcile those emotions when it's clearly not something society really recognises as a fathers role. Reading through the op with him cast as a female, it comes across as ott, but I don't think it'd attract more than a withering pfb eye roll tbh.

As for the pregnancy, i knew a woman equally pfb about her ds and when pregnant with her second was very forthcoming with anyone about how she wasn't convinced she could love anyone as much as her ds. I understand that's quite a common worry even if it's not talked about.

Overall he sounds quite emotionally immature to me at the very least, never mind the effects of his break-up, so I completely understand the op choosing to disengage.

I don't think he's weird, I think he's hard work and there's no obligation for the op to 'fix' him.

SamandCat Sun 16-Mar-14 09:52:43

I think the timing of your announcement about the baby was the reason for his reaction.His DD was in hospital!! i think it would be a little insensitive to show huge delight in another daughter to be at a time when his little girl was ill in hospital.
Also have you thought how much hurt he feels about not being able to live with his daugher after his relationship broke dow, and is just not wanting to go through the same heartache again
Would people think it so weird if a mother felt sad about not seeing their very very young DC every day, or were cross at their exP taking their Dc away for 3 weeks.Of course not and their regular posts from mothers about such things, and nobody thinks they RBU.
Also did none of you ever w9nder whether you would ever love your unborn DC as much as your existing one? It is a very normal fear

HadABadDay2014 Sun 16-Mar-14 10:27:01

Don't know if this is relevant but my main worry when pregnant with DC2 was how could I lover her as much as my pfb.

I also couldn't cope with my DC going away for 3 weeks I to would become depressed.

If DH decided to leave me I would be rather upset, if SS removed my children with no chance of getting them back I would be devastated.

Aeroflotgirl Sun 16-Mar-14 12:14:16

He sounds very weird, I would stay well away.

Aeroflotgirl Sun 16-Mar-14 12:18:12

He made a decision tgat he does not want anything to do with this baby.

Sicaq Sun 16-Mar-14 14:25:03

I'm sorry you've been treated so badly by this man. He does sound unstable to me. I am actually quite concerned for the daughter he already has; his feelings sound like unhealthy possessiveness, not love.

NewtRipley Sun 16-Mar-14 14:30:22

I totally agree with what TheHoneyBadger said on page 1.

>>>>he looks into her eyes and sees things, he romantisises her to the only the person who could ever hurt him... it IS weird and isn't devotion in the healthy sense it's objectification and projecting his needs and his whole emotional life onto her<<<<

That is an unhealthy pre-occupation and pressure on a child, no matter whether the parent doing it is male or female

NewtRipley Sun 16-Mar-14 14:32:03

I think you do need to move on, OP

Caitlin17 Sun 16-Mar-14 14:38:39

There are almost no elements of his behaviour such are normal. Not being normal can be endearingly eccentric but he's not that. He's obsessive and scary. He can't socialise without his daughter?

I feel sorry for his ex- she must have to tread a fine line to keep his behaviour remotely acceptable. I feel even more sorry for his daughter. He's going to be a nightmare for her when she gets older.

The issue isn't the over the top way he is with his daughter. The issue is the shitty way he's treated you and how he has told his family not to have anything to do with you.

So the Grandparents don't get a say at all? Now that's weird.

Take steps to protect yourself OP. He has shown his true colours. Leave him to it. No name on the Birth Certificate and if he gets in touch do it through a Solicitor or he could well be turning up on your doorstep every day in the future acting the way he now with his daughter.

Caitlin17 Sun 16-Mar-14 14:43:50

Honeybadger great posts from you.

nostress Sun 16-Mar-14 15:04:01

An old school friend is like this. He is divorced with TWO kids but he never even speaks about the boy its all bout the girl. He is constantly putting pictures on FB of the little girl but none of the boy. All very weird.

Caitlin17 Sun 16-Mar-14 15:07:56

To be honest the T- shirts with his daughter's face would have put me off long before this stage.

Intrigued14 Sun 16-Mar-14 19:41:47

Hi, thanks everyone there has been a lot of good advice in the thread.

HandsOffMyGazBaz I don't want to get back with him. This is actually something I explained early on to him. That I was willing to co-parent and make it as easy as possible for him to see the baby. He didn't want that and remarked that his future was basically ruined - in terms of ever moving on and having another relationship.

SamandCat I believe it was minor (e.g. upset stomach), and nothing to be worried about. Of course I had no clue where she was! But this is an ongoing problem for this man. Talking about his daughter, or otherwise offending him unintentionally. It was like walking on eggshells. He is just unable to separate himself emotionally from his daughter - his whole life, interests, everything seem to revolve around her. I tried to carefully talk to him about things and he agreed he needed and wanted to try and let go a bit, he actually acknowledged it. But ultimately it just seemed like things would go from bad to worse once she started to grow up and become more independent as children do. As I'm a mother too I just couldn't see myself dedicating so much time to his needs and neglecting my own.

bringbacksideburns He has actually poisoned his mother and co. against the baby. He told me that upon telling his mother about the situation she started crying that he was irresponsible (like his brother apparently) and asked him to leave her house! It all became very Eastenders and to this day I am baffled by her reaction. His small family unit are all very close to his daughter and his brother's children, but apparently I am to blame for the demise of their golden boy so they do not wish any contact - despite the fact that we are both mature adults. I was warned very specifically by them NOT to contact them even to tell them about the birth. Prior to that his mother was apparently happy with our relationship, and that he had finally met someone after the breakdown of his marriage (!)

I've decided ultimately to just proceed with life without him and contact the CSA. It does frighten me that he is so inwardly strange and yet works with primary school children as a living. And to think, he once went on a rant about disgusted he was with how many children of single mothers - with no active father's in their lives - that he came across, when he is basically making me one of them!

TheHoneyBadger Sun 16-Mar-14 19:46:17

he's a misogynist with a weird mix of hate, fear and worship for females. dd is safe for the worship (for now), those single mums come in for the hate and the fear tinges over all of it.

you all make him feel inadequate and he hates and fears all of you. he declares that his daughter is the only one who is going to be allowed near his heart.

it's majorly fucked but honestly doesn't seem to be that uncommon.

good luck with the baby and extending your family smile

Petal02 Sun 16-Mar-14 19:51:22

OP, cast your eyes over some of the threads on the Step Parenting page. It's not unusual for non resident fathers to have quite obsessive relationships with children from their previous relationships: often to the detriment of future partners and any 'new' children with the new partner. Guilt is probably the cause.

Aeroflotgirl Sun 16-Mar-14 19:53:03

Yes you are very sues to keep your child away from this unhealthy and unstable individual. The things tgat he said regarding his dd are very weird bordering obsessive. He and his family have stated their position towards the baby, so no name in the birth certificate, everything to go through a solicitor. I would not want any child of mine round someone like him.

aquashiv Sun 16-Mar-14 20:16:52

Op if when he changes his mind about your child what will you do then? You clearly want his family to know your child so will he. How is he as a Father does what does his daughter think of him. If I wasn't living with my children I think I would go a bit mental with grief.

hoobypickypicky Sun 16-Mar-14 20:24:47

"i also think this 'rights of the child to know their father' is complete and utter false labeling.

a child has zero rights to know it's father who can walk away and never see them and isn't even legally compelled in common law to financially support them. what we really have is men's rights to see their child no matter whether it is best for the child or not, even if they've ignored the child for ten years and their arrival will cause massive disruption, even if they have drug and alcohol problems, even if they've been physically or sexually abusive in the past etc.

calling it the child's right to see their father is beyond a misnomer - it's perverse really."

TheHoneyBadger, that is everything I've ever felt about the relatively new trend which demands that a mother must pursue her child's "rights" to see its father regardless of the benefit, or lack of it, to the child. Everything. I've just never managed to put it into words as well as you have.

We've been conditioned to believe that it's in the child's best interests to do this. We're put under legal and moral pressure to bring our children into contact with their fathers no matter how damaging the contact may be because if we don't we're told that we're bad mothers and that we're abusing our offspring.

The reality, for some women, is that this is another form of control used and abused by abusive men in a perpetually patriarchal society.

hoobypickypicky Sun 16-Mar-14 20:27:20

I'm sorry, I went overboard with the use of abusing/abuse/abusive there. blush

Aeroflotgirl Sun 16-Mar-14 20:45:49

Op has said she will nit pursue contact for her dd. if tge man was tgat disparate get can take it to court. Why should it be up to op, after being treated so poorly by him and his family!

VoyageDeVerity Sun 16-Mar-14 21:02:05

I think he sounds mentally unwell.

I'm so sorry you got tangled up in this.

CSIJanner Sun 16-Mar-14 21:04:23

The only thing I have to add (other than join in the chorus of run like the wind) is his poor DD1 is in for a shock and possible emotional trauma if she ever does something that taints his view and pedestal of her. The poor girl - she'll feel the pressure at some point.

Aeroflotgirl Sun 16-Mar-14 21:22:10

Your dd comes first, sometimes it's not in their best interest to have contact with the other parent. In this case as her father is obsessed beyond what is considered reasonable about his other dd, it could make op dd have feelings of inadequacy and not feeling loved or wanted by her father. I think that op ex is right nit to want anything to do with op dd, he is doing tge girl a massive favour.

deelite72 Sun 16-Mar-14 23:05:44

I smell a 'victim'. Be glad he's gone. Sounds like an utter creep.

MrsKermittSmith Mon 17-Mar-14 11:18:24

In your position I would make sure my daughter had my surname and my name alone on the birth certificate, and I would do everything I could to ensure her father didn't develop sure an obsessive and unhealthy relationship with her. I also feel very sorry for his oldest daughter, in twenty years time she will be posting here trying to work out why she is feeling and behaving the way she is, poor girl.

ohlalala13 Mon 17-Mar-14 11:29:20

Its a little ott but whaf if it was a mother like that with her child? Im pretty sure that would be seen as normal.
I have 2 dc and pg with 3rd.

Dc1 (sn) goes to nursery for 5 hours a few days a week and by half way through I feel like a huge chunk of me is missing.
Dont know how he coped for that long without her! When dh had to go abroad in an emergency he was on Skype as often as possible to see ds (was pg with 2nd then)

he sounds a little too culture orientated and could probably do with having a life of his own so he has a bit more of a balance in his life.

In my culture boys are a blessing but no home is truly blessed until a baby girl is there so could be something around the same lines as that for him too?

Aeroflotgirl Mon 17-Mar-14 11:54:28

Well op is very wise not to have anything to do with this man, his behaviour sounds obsessive and possessive. If he wants contact get can go through the court system, op should not have to do anything.

intrigued I think you are doing the right thing keeping away from him. While your dd has a right to know her dad she also has a right to be protected and it sounds like he's giving his oldest DD a lot of emotional abuse.
It's a shame that you are not in contact with the exw to see what she would do now in your situation given the benefit of hindsight. Mind you, sending those photos like you described sounds bloody odd to me too.

Topaz25 Mon 17-Mar-14 12:29:57

He sounds out of touch with reality. I think if he had contact with your daughter, she would be at risk of emotional harm. He would either put her on a pedestal as he has with his first daughter (and I dread to think how that will come crashing down during her difficult teenage years!) or he will ignore and reject her in favour of his first daughter, which could be devastating to her self esteem. His behaviour, such as tracking down your address by calling a cab company you used, also raises red flags. He is simply not stable enough to parent and you have to prioritise your child's wellbeing. If he is insistent he doesn't want to be involved, to the point of wanting a meeting with you to state this in front of witnesses (as if you are the irrational one!) could you seek legal advice about getting him to make it official and sign away his parental rights? Obviously this would mean you wouldn't get child support but you have to weigh that against your child's wellbeing. Good luck with this situation, thinking of you.

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