To get slightly irritated when people refer to their children being in Year 4 etc?

(125 Posts)
Nirvana69 Fri 07-Mar-14 17:17:13

Just ever so slightly irritated but every thread I've read today related to school aged children I'm told they are in Year 6 or Year 10 or whatever.

This means nothing to me (Scottish) I have no idea what age a Year 6 pupil is.

Aibu to ask that people even stick the age in brackets?
Just a bug bear of mine.

OutragedFromLeeds Fri 07-Mar-14 17:21:15

Sometimes it's the school year and not the age that's relevant though.

If you don't know what that school year means because you don't know about that school system then just don't reply to the thread.

If the school year is not relevant (e.g. what should I buy my year 6 child for their birthday?) then YANBU.

Anonymai Fri 07-Mar-14 17:21:53

It confuses me as well. Especially when a school year will have children of two ages in.

BackforGood Fri 07-Mar-14 17:24:37

Well that's why it makes more sense to put the school year, and not the age Anonymai

EmmaSue Fri 07-Mar-14 17:27:08

YANBU as long as you are also slightly irritated by Scottish posters referring to their P1 etc children.

Anonymai Fri 07-Mar-14 17:27:35

How does it make more sense to put the school year and not the age? Unless you mean school specific threads which I agree with you.

I thought we were talking threads in general though where people describe their child as being in year 6 rather than saying they are ten so that's what my last post was about.

Whoops blush

I get confused and I'm in the uk. DS school is three classes, so mixed years. I think he's yr 2 (should know) but know he's class 2.

SomethingkindaOod Fri 07-Mar-14 17:27:50

I still have to translate it into 'old years' like first year infants etc blush
What system do you use in Scotland OP?

wobblyweebles Fri 07-Mar-14 17:30:14

It confuses me too. I have to add 4 onto the year to work out what age the kids are. When I was at school the system was different, and now I'm in the US where the system is also different.

YANBU. But the same applies to posters from Scotland who rite P1, Tec I have no idea how old their children are.

Write and etc...

magimedi Fri 07-Mar-14 17:32:06

It bugs me too - almost as much as the use of acronyms that I have never heard of. Please explain them first time & then use them all you want.

yellowsnownoteatwillyou Fri 07-Mar-14 17:33:55

I get annoyed when some people say "August born so young for the year" in Scotland If you are August born you will be 5 when you start school, I've never seen anybody write "February born" for a similar question.

StarGazeyPond Fri 07-Mar-14 17:34:41

I'm fed-up forever having to add up on threads: my ds is 52 months, or 19.5 weeks or whatever. With the 'year 6' bit I just presume that, yet again, I have to add up and add a 5 confused

WorraLiberty Fri 07-Mar-14 17:35:31

YANBU as long as you are also slightly irritated by Scottish posters referring to their P1 etc children.

This ^^ grin

You can always just ask someone on the thread or it takes a second to Google.

OutragedFromLeeds Fri 07-Mar-14 17:36:09

But whether they're August/September born is relevant to some threads. I've never seen anyone say that randomly where it isn't relevant.

NewBeginings Fri 07-Mar-14 17:38:04

YANBU

meditrina Fri 07-Mar-14 17:39:22

It's useful to distinguish between yr2 and yr3, and important between yr6 and year 7.

Unless you're in a middle school area.

Lots of variables.

I think it's fine for posters to describe their circumstances in the terms they want to use. But need to be ready to provide more info and clarification if anyone requests it.

(At least they're not talking about shell, lower fourth and the remove)

ZanyMobster Fri 07-Mar-14 17:42:33

August born in the UK is young in the year as they are barely 4 when they start school, my son's best friend was 4 yrs and 4 days when he started school.

Isn't P1 same as Y1, so presumably it isn't that hard to figure out.

ZanyMobster Fri 07-Mar-14 17:45:21

I have only seen people use the school years on school threads when it is relevant. If you are asking a question re a level for a 7 yo it is very relevant what school year they are.

baggyb Fri 07-Mar-14 17:45:29

Not the whole UK Zany. Scotland has an entirely different system.

Scottish posters often talk about P1 etc. which I don't understand, but I don't try to dictate to them how they refer to their child.

when you separate you can have a Scottish MN? wink

shock

WanderingAway Fri 07-Mar-14 17:49:24

In scotland if you have an august child that child will be just 5 or just turning 5 when they start school.

I just think year whatever is the same as primary whatever but i could be wrong.

mrssmooth Fri 07-Mar-14 17:52:29

Primary 1 is Year R/Reception children, ie children aged 4-5. This is what throws out the whole "year numbering" thing .. so Primary 2 = Year 1, age 5-6, Primary 3 = Year 2, age 6-7 etc etc etc. Is it really that difficult to work out? confused

yellowsnownoteatwillyou Fri 07-Mar-14 17:53:20

Zany in Scotland the school year from march 1st to feb 28th/29th.
So if you are born in feb you will be 4 1/2 when you start p1 in August, if you are born in August you will be 5.

P1-P7 are primary school, then S1-S6 are secondary. I think, based on having lurked on many a thread involving school years given as ages, that Reception is the same as P1, and P7 is what would be Y6. English pupils seem to start secondary in Y7, so Y8=S2, Y9=S3, Y10=S4 (GCSE and Nationals year), Y11 = S5 and S6 = Sixth form. But I don't know if English schools do A levels in Y11 like S5s do Highers or not.

Our school intakes are 1st March to the end of February. So my January born DS will be amongst the youngest in his year, as were my sister and I as February and December borns. I was 4 when I started school, and 17 when I left school at the end of S6.

yellowsnownoteatwillyou Fri 07-Mar-14 17:54:31

Similar to in the US kindergarten is primary 1 age

This document has a handy table mapping year groups for all 4 home nations.

Nirvana69 Fri 07-Mar-14 17:55:53

Well as I said even if everyone could put the child's age as well as the year.

Whenever I've seen a Scottish poster use P1 etc they usually have put the age.

MrsCakes I'm not trying to dictate at all, was merely a suggestion.

I wondered how long it would be until the Referendum was mentioned. smile

Tailtwister1 Fri 07-Mar-14 18:32:40

We're in Scotland and I was a bit confused initially, but you just have to take into account that there's a reception year in England which doesn't exist in Scotland. So, P1 is equivalent to Yr2.

Once you get into Senior school level you have the whole Grammar thing to think about which doesn't even exist in Scotland!

meditrina Fri 07-Mar-14 18:35:11

Of course, if everyone was considerate and clear, it woul mean the end of the pleasantly bats threads about sex education when there is always one one who muddles up year 6 with 6 yo

ZanyMobster Fri 07-Mar-14 18:48:04

Sorry it was a mistype in a rush, I meant England not UK.

So in England Aug born is very young in the year. My family are from Scotland and I thought P1 = Y1 so P6=Y6. I do get very confused about the ages the children start school in Scotland though.

wtf1981 Fri 07-Mar-14 18:50:47

Child's age at the beginning of the year minus 4 is what year they're in eg 6 years old at the beginning of year two.

Nirvana69 Fri 07-Mar-14 18:53:00

Hmm my eldest child was born on 31st August just before midnight. Does that mean he'd be the youngest in his year if we lived in England? If I'd held on a few minutes he would've been the eldest?

Yes - he would be 4yo plus 1 day when he started school. The eldest child would be born on the 1st Sept and would be 5yo on the day they started.

HuglessDouglas - Scottish children go,up to senior school a year later than their English counterparts - they only do 6 years in Senior school (S1 to S6), whereas English senior schools cover 7 years - Year 7 to Year 13.

When we moved to Scotland, ds3 went from being in the second year of his English senior school to being in the lowest Scottish senior school year, and ds3, who was only a term away from finishing Year 6 and moving up to senior school, ended up doing another year of Primary school.

letsgotostonehenge Fri 07-Mar-14 19:00:43

fiscal ha ha shock scottishmumsnet

Bonsoir Fri 07-Mar-14 19:02:18

Why is it so difficult to know what age a Year 6 pupil is?

letsgotostonehenge Fri 07-Mar-14 19:03:26

agreed bonsoir wink

wobblyweebles Fri 07-Mar-14 19:07:42

Why is it so difficult to know what age a Year 6 pupil is?

Mine are in grades 2, 4 and 6 - presumably you know their ages without thinking about it too hard?

Nirvana69 Fri 07-Mar-14 19:09:14

It's not difficult, it's irritating. Not everyone knows the English system.

letsgotostonehenge Fri 07-Mar-14 19:13:47

no but I wouldn't care, I wouldn't start a thread about it! smile

letsgotostonehenge Fri 07-Mar-14 19:14:25

if I did care I would look it up hmm

I don't know the French system either, but quite often see threads talking about maternelle classes. I see people talking about preps and pre-preps and have to guess what that means too. I generally manage to get the gist of the thread.

If I am talking about the dses' school years or qualifications, I tend to provide a translation (ie. Standard grades are broadly equivalent to GCSEs, ds3 is in S5, which is the equivalent of Year 12, or Lower Sixth form).

Jinty64 Fri 07-Mar-14 19:20:55

Zany in Scotland the school year from march 1st to feb 28th/29th. So if you are born in feb you will be 4 1/2 when you start p1 in August, if you are born in August you will be 5.

Unless, of course, you defer a year. Then January and February children will be 5 1/2 when they start school.

In Northern Ireland start nursery at 3 and school P1 in the September of the school year in which they turn 4 years of age.
Primary school years P1 to P7, then secondary / grammar at age 11 into year 8.
Year 12 for GCSE, and then either lower and upper sixth for A levels or Years 13 and 14 depending on school.

Simples.

Bonsoir Fri 07-Mar-14 19:23:43

If they are US grades, yes, I know immediately.

Nirvana69 Fri 07-Mar-14 19:24:46

There are some right wankers in this place.

Take your hmm face and ram it smile

TamerB Fri 07-Mar-14 19:25:06

I find it useful. If you say 7yrs they could be still in the infants or they could be in the juniors. 11yr olds could be in primary or have moved to secondary-it makes a difference.

mumminio Fri 07-Mar-14 19:29:01

It annoys me too. At the school I went to, it was 1st year for 10/11 year olds, up to 5th year (GCSE year) then Lower 6th & Upper 6th (A level year). Now they don't even have A levels!

It makes me feel like a dinosaur. I just remember year 7 = 1st year and "translate" it that way.

clam Fri 07-Mar-14 19:30:13

Or, you could get a life, and find something more worthwhile to get irritated about.

I don't live in Scotland, but I have managed to suss out that P1 is the equivalent to the English Yr 2. How about you just educate yourself? hmm

Ah I see SDTG that does make some sense.

Whilst it's not something I'd ever get my knickers in a twist about, I do understand how it can be confusing when years are not only called different things, but the intakes also differ. So a child born on the 31st August 2010 (for example) would start Primary 1 in Scotland in August 2015 and would be in the middle of their year age wise, and would share a class with 4 year olds. Would this child start school in England in September 2015 and be a just turned 5 year old in Y1 with some almost 6 year olds (and therefore be in reception aged "just 4" with "just 5" year olds in Sept 14)?

That isn't right, though - because if P1 was the equivalent of Yr2, P7 would be the equivalent of Yr 8 - and it isn't. For ds3, P7 was the equivalent of Yr7 and S1 (the next academic year) was the equivalent of Yr8.

lljkk Fri 07-Mar-14 19:37:04

It's a cohort thing. <Shrug> I live in England & have worked out what age P1 is, etc.

I never did figure out the start dates - we told the schools the dses dates of birth, and they said ds3 (aged 11) was to go from Yr6 to P6 and ds2 (aged 13) was to go into S1 from Yr8. Ds1, who is an August baby, and was the youngest in his year, went from Yr9 into S2 - he went back a year, because otherwise he'd have had to catch up half a year of all his Standard grade curriculum.

maillotjaune Fri 07-Mar-14 19:44:33

If someone wants advice about how their child is doing at school them stating the Year is surely helpful to any teachers / parents of similar age children who might answer.

No problem with saying Y1 or P1 or whatever - if people don't understand they can ask.

I posted a link earlier to a document that explains that P1 maps to Y1.

Salmotrutta Fri 07-Mar-14 20:01:51

P1 is the first year of school up here.

We don't have reception so P1 is comparable to reception rather than Y1. Anything before that is nursery school.

Primary goes from P1-P7

Then secondary goes from S1-S6

AuditAngel Fri 07-Mar-14 20:08:45

Anonymai, DS is in Year 5 but he isn't 10, he's only 9. And since his birthday is in August he I'll still only be 9 when he leaves yr 5. If it is to do with school the year makes more sense than his age

CrohnicallyFarting Fri 07-Mar-14 20:11:24

nirvana you hit the nail on the head, 31st August birthday means you are the youngest in the year, 1st September means you are the oldest. It is extremely rare for the year to be deferred- I have only known it happen when the child has severe learning difficulties. And even then, the year is deferred later down the line eg the child remains in the reception class for 2 years rather than delaying the start of reception.

It is slightly more common for children to not start school until they are legally obliged to- when they turn 5- but in practice this would mean an August birthday child would miss the whole of the Reception year and go straight into year 1, which puts them at more of a disadvantage than if they had gone into Reception just after their 4th birthday.

IneedAwittierNickname Fri 07-Mar-14 20:12:02

Audit ds1 is the same.
When posting on school related topics I post their year group and their age, as both can be relevant.

BurdenedWithGloriousPurpose Fri 07-Mar-14 20:23:20

If it's so easy to figure out then why is this thread so full of people getting it wrong eg P1=Y2? grin

YANBU, it would make sense if everyone used both the year and age.

kim147 Fri 07-Mar-14 20:28:02

Could be American.

Grade 3?

tabulahrasa Fri 07-Mar-14 20:39:20

If it's relevant to school in a - what level should a year 6 child be...then it's not an issue as anyone not familiar with that education system is isn't going to know the answer anyway.

But, I've seen things like - what should I buy a year 5 boy as a present, or is this film suitable for year 10s? and I haven't a clue without having to ask how old they are.

wobblyweebles Fri 07-Mar-14 23:38:14

Bonsoir and they are...?

Moln Fri 07-Mar-14 23:48:25

If you want to know the age you could just ask.

I imagine that if they are declaring that their child is in Year 4 it's because it's a school related question, and I'd imagine that it's directed at those in the same schooling system.

I'm in Ireland and there's a different school year labeling here.

Primary school has:

Junior Infants
Senior Infants
1st Class
2nd Class
3rd Class
4th Class
5th Class
6th Class

Age range in the classes can be over a year in their difference

ErrolTheDragon Fri 07-Mar-14 23:48:35

I've never figured out the US grade system, but I don't get annoyed when Americans use it - I know that I could easily find out if I was that bothered, so it's my problem not theirs.

I guess I'd expect people on a site with a majority of English/Welsh users to feel similarly.

In many contexts the school year is relevant, the calendar age isn't.

Caitlin17 Fri 07-Mar-14 23:49:25

YANBU (Another resident of Scotland)

Children start P1 at 5 and stay in Primary school until P7 .Then S1 to S5 or S6 .Perfectly clear.

Caitlin17 Fri 07-Mar-14 23:49:26

YANBU (Another resident of Scotland)

Children start P1 at 5 and stay in Primary school until P7 .Then S1 to S5 or S6 .Perfectly clear.

I dont agree with the link posted earlier as it says P1 is for age 5-6 and both mine started P1 when they were 4½years old. I would regard P1 to be the equivalent of Reception as it is the first year of proper school.

Quinteszilla Fri 07-Mar-14 23:59:47

I put age if age related, school year if related to education.

If I am on an education thread, saying my son is 11 could mean Y6, last year of primary, or Y7, first year of secondary, so confusing. It makes sense in terms of national curriculum levels.

Nocomet Sat 08-Mar-14 00:00:40

I can see it's annoying (I keep meaning to google the Scottish system).

However, in education and behaviour threads it can be very relevant.
Y2 is far more formal than the years before.
Y5's IME play up, Y6 (top of primary) teachers tend to expect limit testing and are far more on the ball, than in Y5.

It makes a huge difference if a 11yo has or hasn't started secondary school to how independent they are.

ErrolTheDragon Sat 08-Mar-14 00:01:20

The system south of the border isn't any more difficult to comprehend than that - reception in the year the child turns 5 (so most are 4 when they start) - I think it's 'reception' rather than starting the count because they don't legally have to be in school till they are 5. Then yr1-13. Most schools have primary up to year 6, secondary from year 7 , 'sixth form' is year12 and 13.

But some areas (and esp posh private schools) have a middle school - I don't know what age they start at, doesn't really matter for most discussions as the year/age is the same - that may be why the continuous numbering rather than starting the count again on entering secondary school (which we used to do, O-levels were in the 'fifth form')

we also dont have national curriculum levels or SATs in Scotland so none of that means anything to me either

wobblyweebles Sat 08-Mar-14 00:14:57

Errol I am British and American. One of my children started in the UK system then moved. I still have to sit and work out the age when people say Year 7.

Moln Sat 08-Mar-14 00:20:39

Right so a chart would show as follows

England&Wales / Scotland / Rep of Ireland

Primary School

Reception = P1 = Junior Infants
Year 1 = P2 = Senior Infants
Year 2 = P3 = 1st Class
Year 3 = P4 = 2nd Class
Year 4 = P5 = 3rd Class
Year 5 = P6 = 4th Class
Year 6 = P7 = 5th Class
= = 6th Class

Post Primary School

Year 7 = S1 = 1st Year
Year 8 = S2 = 2nd Year
Year 9 = S3 = 3rd Year
Year 10 = S4 = 4th Year
Year 11 = S5 = 5th Year

Don't know American Grades at all, not what happens after year 11 - sorry!!!

wobblyweebles Sat 08-Mar-14 00:30:18

1st graders are generally 6 when they start but the cut off varies by state. For us it is October some time. Also depending on the school district you can push your child ahead or keep them back. So a 1st grader in our school could be aged 5 to 8.

It kind of pisses me off TBH as I have a couple of very young children for their grade, and some of them have children a full two years older than them in the same class.

Weegiemum Sat 08-Mar-14 00:38:18

And o further confuse, parents in Scotland are giving discretion about start dates.

My dd1 and ds have early feb birthdays. I'd have been free to send them to school at age 4y5m but was able (without skipping a year) to have them start in P1 at age 5y6m.

So I have a just-14 year old in S2 (Y8) and a just-12 year old in P7 (Y6). And a 10 year old in P6 (Y5). She seemed so young starting school at only 4y9m!

DD is very nearly 10, mid-year Yr 5 in England, would be on of the eldest in P5 in Scotland, and 4th grade in the US, I think. I've had to translate 5th grade in a book to to her just this evening ...

Thing is, if I describe her as Yr 5 on here, a UK-based, English-centric, website, it's shorthand for 'aged 9 or 10, secondary school next September, maybe looking at 11+ this September, NC level 3 or 4'. If I was on a different site I'd be more precise, and I'd realise they might let understand my terminology, and explain further.

SinisterBuggyMonth Sat 08-Mar-14 01:03:51

YANBU

the whole system is quite baffling and IMO they should return to the 80's way (1st to 4th primary, 1st to 4th middle, 2nd to 5 th secondary) or stop calling sixth formers "six formers" as it's totally out of sequence and WRONG!

IneedAwittierNickname Sat 08-Mar-14 01:20:28

Errol I always assumed it was reception because it didn't always exist, and changing the whole numbering system would be confusing? I didn't do reception year, it wasn't around then (at least my mum thinks I started school straight into year 1, she can't remember). My neighbours did 'rising 5s though'

IneedAwittierNickname Sat 08-Mar-14 01:25:58

Sinister I don't think that was the 80s way everywhere. My primary had infants (years 1-2) And juniors (years 3-6) but it was all the same school. We played at opposite ends of the playground and the juniors had a toilet block that you had to leave the main building for. There was no middle school.
Secondary school was years 7-11, with GCSEs in year 11.

Then we could opt to stay on for 6th form. Which was years 12 (AS levels) and 13 (A2s)

The fact that 6th form didn't consist of any sixes never seemed to occur to us grin

squoosh Sat 08-Mar-14 02:54:11

I still refer to First Babies and Second Babies.

NobodyLivesHere Sat 08-Mar-14 03:05:53

It is pretty confusing. I have children born in sept 03, feb 05 and August 07, they are in years 5,4 and 2 respectively...but if we lived in Scotland this wouldn't be the same. I believe they would be in p6, p4 and p2?

NobodyLivesHere Sat 08-Mar-14 03:09:23

Sinister I also went to a school that was I1-2, J1-4 then secondary was 1-5 (changed to the y7-11 half way through I went from being in 2nd year to being in y9, that was confusing!). Then I went to college for 2 years for a levels.

PolkadotsAndMoonbeams Sat 08-Mar-14 04:00:30

My prep school went 1-7, then I started senior school in Third Form (aged 11), went into Lower Four etc.

I manage to translate everything all right! Nobody would know what I was talking about otherwise

nagynolonger Sat 08-Mar-14 04:44:58

It my be a bit confusing the first time you come across a 'system' different to the one you are used to, but it's hardly complicated is it.

The only thing that is a bit strange is that many in England still refer to a 6th form. When they should call it Post16 (years 12 and 13 when they do A levels). You can't have a 6th form if you don't have 1st form, 2nd form etc..

I can understand how the classes are numbered in Scotland. The prep and pre prep is not hard to figure out either. If I wanted to know the US or Australian system I could easily stop and look it up.

MrsMook Sat 08-Mar-14 06:26:14

I find the current system easier for refering to my own schooling as I changed areas with different systems. I started off I the usual 3 year infant school and a month before leaving moved to an area with a 4 year infants. Being ready for juniors, I didn't appreciate. I then should have spent 4 years in the juniors before going to secondary as a second year (y8), but our area standardised to most areas by cutting infants to 3 years and sending two year groups to secondary who recieved y7 and y8 that year. So I ended up doing 4 years in infants,and 3 in juniors. The standardised year system came in when I was in y6 and it's easier to retrofit that system to describe my experience because it wasn't the standard.

I've taught in areas that have different secondary intake systems and it is simpler to understand and compare with the year system.

I mainly smile and nod and ask when it makes a difference to understanding (eg exam years, transitions) when my ILs refer to their system. The level of their exams confuses me more.

BeaWheesht Sat 08-Mar-14 06:49:06

Moln just to confuse things afaik after S5 it's generally 'fifth and then sixth year' both optional.

Op yabu a bit u I think. It only annoys me when people say 'in the uk x y and z happens' when they mean England.

I prefer the Scottish system purely because the youngest age they can start is 4y6m (late February birthday starting August) and also because deferral is much more common place than in England and they don't miss a year if they defer.

NobodyLivesHere

for your sept 03, feb 05 and August 07 birthdays the school years in Scotland would be:

sept 03 birthday would be in P6
Feb 05 birthday could be in either P5(if not deferred) or P4 (if deferred)
Aug 07 birthday would be in P2

(think that is all correct as it gets confusing)

when I was at chool even though it is written as S1, S2, etc we still called it First Year, Second Year, etc. I left after 5th year at the age of 16 and went to Uni just before I turned 17. At that time not many people stayed on for 6th Year.

school!

justmuddlingalongsomehow Sat 08-Mar-14 08:09:23

Just add 5 to the year group and that's how old the kids in the class are likely to be by the end of that academic year (apart from summer birthdays).

ISeeYouShiverWithAntici Sat 08-Mar-14 09:13:04

It doesn't irritate me, I just can't get to grips with it.

In my day (where's my zimmer?...) you'd be at infant school, 1st year, 2nd year... Junior school, 1st year, 2nd year... senior school, 1st form, 2nd form... leave in the fifth form or go into sixth form to do your A levels.

now you just go 1 - whatever.

It's actually simpler, isn't it? Far more straightforward. Start in y1 finish in ywhatever. It's just not how it was done In My Day and for that reason and no good one at all, I don't like it. grin

Moln - Year 8 in England is the equivalent of S1 in Scotland, and Scottish children do one less year in Senior school - they go up at 12, and do six years (S1-S6) in senior school, whereas English children go up at 11 and do 7 years (Year7-Year13).

Year 7 in England is the equivalent of P7 in Scotland - the 11-12 year olds.

CountessOfRule Sat 08-Mar-14 12:47:39

Pfft. Define "equivalent". My Y1 5yo would be in P1 if in Scotland, but his Y1 6yo friend would be in P2.

I've also lived through Reception/First-Second Year Infants/First-Fourth Year Juniors/First to Fifth Year Seniors and E-block, D-block ... A-block and Y1-13 and L1, U1, L2, U2 ... U5, L6, U6 as well as the Scottish system, and I never fell over.

As far as MN is concerned, sometimes ages matter, sometimes yeargroups matter, and sometimes both.

What the OP should really be annoyed by is OPs with unhelpful or missing information.

silvermantella Sat 08-Mar-14 13:00:33

Mumsnet is a UK website (in fact registered in England & Wales according to the logo at the bottom of the page), and the vast vast majority of the population in the UK use the English and Welsh system of school years, so why should they pander to the tiny Scottish population (8% according to the 2011 census) that don't?

There are also a large number of expats on the site, so should everyone make allowances for them too, i.e. (my Yr6/P7/5th grade/sixieme) etc etc?

I have never been to school in the US but from exposure to friends/tv etc I understand what Freshman, Sophomore, etc is the UK equivalent to, and if it was relevant I would google it.

Plus, it's a fairly straightforward system, starts at reception and then goes up, so if someone says Yr 1 common sense would suggest their child is unlikely to be 8 or 9. It's not exactly rocket science.

WitchWay Sat 08-Mar-14 13:03:39

DS16 goes to a private secondary school & they use the old-fashioned Year system like when I was at school. Consequently he's in 5th year. smile

Countess - the way I have looked at it is this. All the children finish school at age 18 - in England, the final year of senior school is Year 13, and in Scotland, it is S6. So, counting back, S1, the first year of senior school in Scotland, equates to Year 8 in England. Therefore P7, which is the final year of Primary in Scotland, equates to Year 7, first year senior school, in England.

Where my understanding fails is further down primary school - English primary school is 7 years - Reception to Year 6, and Scottish primary also has 7 years P1 to P7 - but they go up to senior school a year later - and I assume this has to do with how entry age to school is worked out. I never had to get to grips with it, as my youngest ds was 11 when we moved to Scotland.

However, I was trying to be helpful, so saying "Pfft. Define equivalent" to me, seemed rather rude.

CountessOfRule Sat 08-Mar-14 13:31:39

Sorry, SDTG, that wasn't aimed at you, although I can see why you would think it was. It was aimed at the whole thread and the repeated explanations of equivalence which differ precisely because the systems themselves are not equivalent.

So there's "what English class would this Scottish child be in if we moved?" and there's "which is the year when a child would learn such-and-such?" for a start.

cairnterrier Sat 08-Mar-14 13:37:41

Does anyone know why the Scottish year runs mar-feb and the English one goes from sept- August? Thanks

Sorry for snarking, Countess. thanks

Maybe 'loosely equivalent' would be a slightly more useful phrase - for the purposes of answering the sorts of questions you mentioned - though it doesn't hold up when you are looking at the lower years of Primary school in England and Scotland.

BlueberryWoods Sat 08-Mar-14 13:44:35

Silvermantella it may be a fairly straightforward system but do you not think it would be a bit confusing to a non-English/Welsh person that Year 1 is actually the second year of school?

nagynolonger Sat 08-Mar-14 13:46:24

No idea why the English school year starts 1st Sept.......After the harvest was in maybe.

Bea Sat 08-Mar-14 13:46:48

apologies if already said.... but just add on 5 for age...

thus Y2... age approx 7...

nagynolonger Sat 08-Mar-14 13:52:23

Blueberry I think year 1 is the first year of compulsory schooling in England. Many years ago my eldest children couldn't get a school place until the term after they turned 5. Then they allowed rising 5s to start and DC started school at the beginning of every term depending on their birthday. Now most schools don't have a Christmas or Easter intake.

BlueberryWoods Sat 08-Mar-14 14:04:52

I've heard that before nagynolonger and I can understand the reasoning though if were up to me I would have started the system at Yr 1 and said compulsory from Yr 2.

Writerwannabe83 Sat 08-Mar-14 14:14:02

I don't get the school year thing either - when I read threads and see the child is in Year 6, for example, it means nothing to me smile It's definitely easier if the OP just says how old the child is smile

kim147 Sat 08-Mar-14 14:24:34

As a teacher, I have to think about how old my classes can be.

It's amazing to think a year 1 / 2 class can have a child who is just 5 and a child who is 7 right at the start of the school year.

Megrim Sat 08-Mar-14 15:40:41

silvermantella - "Mumsnet is a UK website" - that's right, and Scotland is part of the UK (for now at least). The "Registered in England and Wales" registration means that the head office is located in England, so basically you can sod off with your "why should they pander to the tiny Scottish population" comment. Did you learn nothing in your (English) school?

silvermantella Sat 08-Mar-14 15:42:31

Blueberry - no, sorry, I really don't. A lot of school systems have a 'reception' equivalent before numbered/other grades begin (kindergarten in US/Germany, ecole maternelle in France, etc). I could see how it might be confusing the first time, but once you've established that children start reception aged 4, then go up to years 1-13, then you would know. Even if you couldn't be bothered to ask someone/look it up (takes 1 second to google), I don't see how you couldn't make an educated guess within 1 year either way from 'Yr6' etc.

I don't see how you can go your whole live next to a county with a very similar school system and not work this out, tbh. Even getting the same TV shows that show the English/Welsh system.

Just feel that on this issue, majority rules. And I say that as a Welsh person who is used to seeing English things seen as the automatic norm regarding certain issues on Mumsnet when they are not necessarily applicable in Wales, it doesn't bother me. But I understand different things irritate different people!

wobblyweebles Sat 08-Mar-14 15:54:38

If only there was some kind of internationally recognised system that we could use for referring to our children's general physical and developmental stage. One that didn't differ according to which country they lived in, or whether/which school system they were in.

Perhaps something simple that used either a number or a letter.

ponders

:-)

BlueberryWoods Sat 08-Mar-14 16:04:55

silvermantella I'm not at all familiar with the French school system but thought that Kindergarten was like nursery - often not even at the same site as a school and is 'learning through play' type facility. You would say your child was at kindergarten not school. I just think it would be easier if once you start school it is Year 1.

Weegiemum Sat 08-Mar-14 23:15:36

I find the inflexibility of the English system hard. Dh and I considered a move to London. I talked to admissions people - my dd1 and ds would have been summarily moved up a year, and with no extra support. We would have been moving them out of Gaelic medium education - and no language support would have been available (Gaelic wasn't on their list).

We chose to stay put, almost purely for the children's education. The English system took no account of the educational needs that they would have.

wizardofearthsea Sun 09-Mar-14 00:01:31

I would assume that when people post for advice that they are looking for advice from someone else in a similar situation. Therefore if they are asking about Y2 SAT's then they are looking for someone who has experience of that. YABU mumsnet is an advice website - if it doesn't pertain to you then move onto something that does. BTW I say this as a Scot living in England - when in Rome......BTW unless you also object to posters not adding age when posting about P1 etc children YABVU.

Bonsoir Sun 09-Mar-14 13:52:57

All school systems are inflexible on some dimensions, IMO. It is the nature of the institution.

candycoatedwaterdrops Sun 09-Mar-14 14:11:22

Some of you are very chippy...!

Actually Moln - to make things more complicated in most schools in the Republic of Ireland Post Primary goes

1st year
2nd year
3rd year
<<Transition year>>
5th year
6th year

Transition year is not compulsory and has a wide and varied curriculum. It can include modules such as work experience, first aid and starting a business.

Oops, forgot to make Moln bold.

mrsjay Sun 09-Mar-14 16:08:05

It used to confuse me as well I was confused but you could always ask people what year <whatever> folk are usually very nice and tell you some think you have fell out of the sky though I am getting really good at it now, I don't under stand the Keystage thing though but again if you want to contribute to a thread you ask

silvermantella Sun 09-Mar-14 18:33:26

Megrim, no I did not learn anything in my English school. Because it was in Wales. Therefore I do not get irate when people make points based on assumptions (as you just did!) based on the English school system that may not necessarily apply in Wales, for example, schools being mainly taught through the medium/first language of English, or variation in holiday dates.

I have no idea why you got so aggressive. Scotland IS a minority, population percentage wise. Wales is even smaller. Therefore on many topics,

To be honest I agree that it would probably make more sense that schools started from number 1, but they don't. My point was that, once you know, this, it is not a hard concept to get your head around.

And, just quickly. Firstly, a Head Office is not the same as a registered office. Secondly, the registered office address of a company does not have to be where the organisation conducts its actual business or trade. Thirdly, the registered address is important as some aspects of company law are based on common law principles, and Scots law is different to English/Welsh. I admit my use of the 'registered' thing was perhaps a bit of a flimsy argument, but if you wanted to attack me so viciously for it you could at least get your facts straight.

silvermantella Sun 09-Mar-14 18:34:39

sorry, did not read that before I posted! Meant to say in the middle paragraph: On many topics on Mumsnet, majority rules.

Picturesinthefirelight Sun 09-Mar-14 18:38:18

I always put that dd is in year 7 when posting about anything school related she turned 12 in October so I wanted posts to be in the context of the huge adjustment into secondary rather than people assuming she was in year 8.

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