To be pissed off with myself re Bounty - help me take action(235 Posts)
MNHQ have commented on this thread.
I knew it was coming! I know my rights! I'm a lawyer, FFS, and I still got conned into giving my bastard details to the bounty woman in hopsital following the birth of my DC2.
However, I was sufficiently lucid to clearly think - "it's ok, I have not been asked to consent to marketing". My sketchy knowledge of the DPA is that they are now therefore in breach of it, as my details have been sold to third parties. Anyone want to help me with how I make a complaint to the ICO? Or maybe this is a campaign for Which? (I'm a member)
Or will a complaint do nothing. These bastards must be stopped!
Bomb the buggers. It's the only way.
Why didn't you just say "no, thank you"?
Wux, have you had a baby yet?
It took me to baby no 3 to remember my manners and shout fuck off when she flapped at my curtain.
That's the whole point of bounty though.. they want your details so they can send you all sorts of spam and sell your details on.
ImSo, I have had 3 babies. And?!
But that's not what the bounty lady says.
She offers you the tiniest succor em known to man that your baby addled brain says, 'aw, how cute'. Tears form, next thing you know you've given her your bank details and all pins, just because she tells you in a lovely calm tea coated voice that you cannot get child benefit any other way than through her bag of depravity.
I learned after my first.. The bounty experience doesn't leave you
I think they should rename it the 'bag of depravity and utter disappointment and self loathing' (working on trade mark) and perhaps more of us wouldn't fall for their charm and patter.
First had the gall to tell me my baby was beautiful. He had a face after birth only a mother could look at, let alone love. He's all grown up and stunningly handsome now ;)
Bounty should be banned from hospital wards, I really don't see the need.
They're awful, fake, patronising women.
But, you're not forced into receiving their crap or giving them your details.
Just say no!
I was disappointed that I didn't get a visit from a bounty rep. I was all ready to tell them to fuck off. My consultant just brought me a couple of the bounty bags. Maybe next time!
I had a full on debate with the bounty lady after my dd was born. I told her I didn't want her pack and she was outraged. I told her I didn't agree with their practices and that I felt they should not be allowed to work in hospitals. She tried to tell me I could only get my child benefit with the form she had and I told her it was bollocks. I told her that the timing of their visits was appalling (dd was hours old) and that they should respect a new mothers privacy.
It didnt help that she said "knock knock" then breezed straight into my cubicle while I was trying to bf dd. She was really pushy about the photos and how I would miss out if I didn't take the pack and buy the pics.
Erm nah... Fuck off!
Give 'em both barrels op!
I'm due to give birth to DC1 any day now and thanks to the MN campaign and various threads about Bounty I've actually written "No Bounty representatives(or other marketing bodies) are to approach me or my husband at any time during our hospital stay" in my birth plan
We won't qualify for child benefit due to DH's wage so we're not even going to bother applying.
Koothrapanies, if only they handed out a pistol with each new baby.
The child benefit sales pitch is not only cruel but totally wrong. I'd have kicked the bitch too if I could move my legs without my fanjo falling out.
OP you know there's been a MN campaign on this, it might give you some ideas?
Frankie, I think you need to apply but not claim due to the ineptitude of joined up thinking, or when you are old an wrinkly you might not get your £3.29 pension from the communal pot of doom.
I escaped without giving my details for DS. I'd been up all night, the first half whilst the other babies screamed and he slept, then he decided to BF for 4 hours solidly.
The midwife did all her checks in the morning, drew the curtain and told the staff to leave me alone to sleep. I managed to get DS into the goldfish bowl and within minutes the Bounty woman had barged in. She suggested waking him for a photo. The midwife came and removed her. Rapidly.
I can tell when companies have got my details from the Bounty rep from when I had DD. She spelt my surname wrong.
They should be banned.
I had my babies at home so I just got given the bounty bags by my midwife thankfully!
You see, that's it - I was expecting the CB pitch, but I got the "I'm collecting data for statistics on baby names". Obviously I know that to be utter crap, but at the time, I had just had a traumatic birth, emergency surgery and no sleep for 48 hours. So wasn't thinking clearly.
So does anyone know what to do to make an official complaint?
Stick it on the bomb ;)
ImSoHappy isn't there some palaver involving having to submit a self-assessment tax form if you apply for it, or is that only if you claim and then have to pay it back? I shall look on the HMRC website, but either way the Bounty folk aren't getting to me
I've had 4 babies in this country and I've never had the joy of meeting a Bounty rep and telling her to fuck off.
I think Frankie (my Iamshitpad doesn't like your name, sorry) you can claim but not receive monies, so some other such doublespeak. Grab a government official and ask for them to explain it in words of one syllable that they understand.
Oh my fucking CHRIST what is this hell you talk about???
I had DD1 at home but damn medical issues mean I might have to have this baby in hospital .
If anyone dares to approach me in hospital I will not be responsible for my actions . As if new mothers don't have enough to deal with. Parasites.
Lizard, have you considered trying for number 5 just to get the pleasure of assaulting a bounty lady?
I'm making a special 'Bounty can Fuck Off' badge for when I give birth. Got first bounty pack from midwife - what a load of crap!
Its free to download the CB form from the government website. I object to the Government paying Bounty to distribute these when they could easily be given away on discharge from Hospital.
The tiny sudocreme pot is not worth it in my cabbage and apparently if you contact Sudocreme directly they will send you a tester pot free anyhow.
Is it good in your cabbage, fellow I pad user?
I can design a logo to go with the badge. It will be a bountiful woman in a vat of boiling oil.
Or maybe just a big middle finger.
Bastard Bounty woman didn't give me my pack because I was sobbing through lack of pain relief at the time, so presumably she concluded i wouldn't be open to her sales pitch. Pisses me off as I wanted a paper copy of the child benefit form and now 4 weeks on I still haven't applied online. Have no useful advice but just wanted to say YANBU.
I quite liked my Bounty pack and have made use of lots of the vouchers. The Bounty lady was very reasonable when I said I didn't want the photos.
I'm confused. When Bounty lady came round when I was in hospital after dd's birth I didn't give her ANY of my details. So why am I receiving tons of unsolicited baby-related crap in the post??
Sorry to hijack. Hope you get it sorted OP! Bastards
She probably hypnotised you PoppettyPing, either that or used her black magic to read your mind
Ta for the advice on CB ImSoHappy, I will investigate further.
PoppettyPing - do you have loyalty cards? Your purchasing habits will have changed, and new parents are highly sought-after targets hence you'll have ended up on a list that way.
Or you have signed up to baby-related stuff online, and not ticked the 'no 3rd party' box.
I told the bounty lady that I wasn't interested in her photos, as I had my own camera - that threw her a bit. Then that I didn't want to give her my details either, not even if it meant a free keyring. She gave me the bag, very ungraciously, and sodded off to harass some other mums on the ward.
I've never had an issue with Bounty reps tbh- and I'm the sort who could start a fight in an empty room.
I'll be only too happy to be proved wrong with this baby tho.
I have my evil plan of action ready if and when the bounty lady invades
I think bounty should be banned across the NHS, bar the midwives handing out the pack at appointments.
When Bounty lady came round when I was in hospital after dd's birth I didn't give her ANY of my details. So why am I receiving tons of unsolicited baby-related crap in the post?
Were your details on the clipboard on the end of your bed?
I still get emails telling me time is running out to buy my pictures. I got emails at 6 months telling me they would be deleted soon so spent £60 buying them (OCD wouldn't let me not). Almost two years later and they are still telling me time is running out to buy them. It's a joke.
Kveta I did the same she was very put out when I refused to give her any details after I'd already got the pack.
She did backtrack and apologise slightly when I told her I'd been receiving baby-related postal shite relating to my stillborn son...and that Bounty were the only organisation that could possibly have passed on the details. (I complained, made fuck all difference.)
I took the pack and then said no when the Bounty Lady very sweetly asked for my details...
i want to have (another) baby just so i can hold an argument with the Bounty person.
When I had dd2 she was 7 weeks premature and in neo-natal, so I was without her on the post-natal ward. A Bounty woman barged in and asked where my baby was. I told her and she said 'don't worry, you can still have a Bounty pack'. I was sooo angry. How is it appropriate to get details of any baby never mind ones who are ill? I told her I didn't want her Bounty pack and leave me alone.
You could complain to the hospital OP or Bounty themselves?
While I know the CB form is available online, where can you get a paper copy? Is it the post office?
Reason I ask, is that a friend of mine is due to have her latest DC very soon, and wants to know, so she can counter-act any Bounty crap. She plans to chat to other mothers on the ward and slip relevant info into the convos.
Bounty don't bother you on the nicu! Never saw one
I wrote on my birth plan that I didn't want to be approached by any Bounty reps as I wasn't interested. The Bounty lady came everyday (I was in 4 days) and didn't even look in my direction and went to the other 3 beds. I was very pleased that they had taken my request on board!
Fry You can get a paper form by calling the helpline. See www.hmrc.gov.uk/childbenefit/start/claiming/how-to-claim.htm. It doesn't mention being bale to pick one up from a post office.
excellent, fifth column anti-Bounty activity.
<<starts rolling parachutes ready to drop CB paper forms on all maternity wards>>
When DD was born I told the Bounty lady to fuck off so she went a found DH and he was too polite to do the same
If there's no point you getting CB you are supposed to still apply on the official form, there's now a tick box for not claiming. It means your NI contributions or something are still protected when you're not working. I advise against claiming and then giving it all back as we did this accidentally (thinking we had to claim to protect the contributions), and the tax forms were horrendous, senseless and took days to fill in.
On both occasions I was left a pack but not bothered by anyone - possibly because first time I was v poorly after PPH and second baby was in NICU? I ignored the card stuck to it saying to register with Bounty.
RueDe I'm so sorry. I think there is some service called the Baby Mail Preference Service to stop you getting baby-related stuff, and The Bereavement Register to stop post addressed to your stillborn baby. Both are free to register with. Hope these help.
Oh RuDe that is horrid. What utter twatfucks.
I have no loyalty cards, there was no clipboard on the bed, and definitely no hypnotism (haha)... I can't for the life of me figure out how those vultures got my address. Surely the hospital doesn't tell them?!?
The Bounty lady didn't even seem bothered when I told her I wouldn't be giving her my details. I was almost disappointed.
Givemeaclue - both of my children were in NICU but I had to stay on the postnatal wards. Both times a Bounty rep invaded my privacy, walked past closed curtains (in one case woke me up) and offered to take pictures of my baby without seeming to notice the empty cot beside my bed. I was too tired and emotional to react - I would go back to those terrible days just to be able to tell her to f**K right off.
SIL is due twins this year. I shall patrol the ward 24/7 for BountyCuntyNess.
I feel sorry for whoever lives at my old address, they must get all manner of random marketing. I don't even remember what I told who postpartum, I was too busy staring at my DS, crying hysterically (in a good way) and attempting to replace the 4 pints of blood I'd lost (jolly birth story, there!).
Number 1. MAKE A COMPLAINT TO THE HOSPITAL.
One of the major problems is that no matter how much women complain on MN they are not complaining to the hospitals in question. Hospitals are using this as a way to support Bounty, by saying "well we've had no complaints" or that Bounty have high levels of satisfaction. This is the number one thing you need to do to register with authorities that you believe that this company have taken advantage of a situation in which you are vulnerable. What hospitals and Bounty say does not match what NCT and MN surveys said and the message needs to go to hospitals that women do not like this.
Number 2. COMPLAIN TO BOUNTY
Yes I am pretty damn sure they are in breach of the DPA. They need to EXPLICITLY state what they are using the data for (eg in this case to sell on to third parties for marketing - they can not legally state that it is to join a parenting club as that is misleading). Failure to do so, is in breach of ICO rules. In order to complain to the ICO, you are supposed to complain to the company in question... which if you don't trust them and don't want to give them your details is not really what you want to do. However if they always have your details you don't have a lot to loose. The trouble is, by now they may have already sold your information to third parties, and out of their control. The ICO will not handle your complaint unless Bounty have been given the opportunity to correct the problem first.
You can also do a "Subject Access Request" to businesses. They have to provide you with all the information they hold on you (including who they sent your details on you). They can charge £10 at most for this request. They have to reply within 40 days. It has to be sent to the Compliance Manager who should be publicly noted. (I did previously put a link to Bounty's Compliance Manager's linked in profile who was Sarah Wragg, but the profile no longer exists).
You would need to send recorded delivery to prove they had received your request. If they don't respond you would then contact the ICO as non compliance is a breach of the data protection act. Technically, I believe that all staff working for Bounty should have data protection training as part of their compliance. Its believe it may be a legal necessity due to where they work. Whether they are doing this or not, I haven't established.
The ICO rules were tightened back in September; the register ran a great article on what this means here
Number 3. COMPLAIN TO THE ICO
You can only do this if Bounty do not respond to the above to your satisfaction.
Full details of how to complain should you get to this point here
Number 4. CONSIDER A COMPLAINT TO TRADING STANDARDS.
I've posted about this previously about how I believe this type of behaviour is in breech of trading standards.
Rather than copying the whole lot again, the information is on this thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_campaigns/a1641617-just-had-a-run-in-with-the-maternity-ward-bounty-photographer
Posts by me on Fri 21-Dec-12 23:54:57 and Sat 22-Dec-12 00:26:12 give you a good outline of why its dodgy, but I've made other posts about it which give further detail, including links on that that and on the subsequent later thread:
As far as I am aware no one has taken this approach yet - it is begging for someone to do it, but it can only be someone who has a complaint themselves and not on behalf of someone.
They do not need to sell you photos to be covered under this; selling your details on to a third party is a commercial and financial transaction so I believe is covered (read the The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 for more info here.
Hope that points you in the right direction, if you are serious about doing this. Happy to help if you need it, though I could bore the hind leg off a donkey with this subject, so you've been warned!!!
I think people in general get themselves way too wound up about this. Take the freebies and bin the rest. I don't see the harm, never have.
Oh and Wuxiapian if you come back to this thread, I will quite happily bore you with a mega long post about exactly why even intelligent women may find it difficult in these circumstances to say no. These are covered in the trading standards guidance stuff detailed and linked to above about misleading and aggressive sales tactics and why they are ILLEGAL.
NHS Highland have not renewed their contract with Bounty. I hope other health boards and trusts will do the same.
At my very first antenatal clinic visit a
bootfaced taciturn midwife chucked a pack at me tried to give me a pack. Knowing nothing about Bounty and instinctively suspicious, I said 'no thanks'. She looked staggered, as if I were the first person EVER to reject it. "But it's free," she said, as if that alone were enough.
My second Bounty encounter was first thing the morning after I had had my son, when I was feeling pretty awful - just had a c-section, no sleep for two days, and various other hideosities. The Bounty photographer woman knocked on the door and opened it all in one go, gaily chirping, "Bounty baby photograph, it's free, it's free!" I said no, but obviously not loudly enough because she seemed not to hear. So I told the nurse to say no to her. The nurse did so with much rolling of eyes and shrugging, as if to say "Well she IS a madwoman, because why would any sane person not want a FREE Bounty photograph of their baby?"
And THEN, the Bounty woman turned up again the same time the following day, and tried again! And again I had her and the nurse saying, "But it's free! Do it for your baby, at least! It's free!" There was a strong implication that if I didn't agree then I didn't care about my son, which was v annoying. So very reluctantly, I gave in. Two very hasty photos were taken, and the Bounty woman swiftly withdrew: worried, I suppose, that I might bite.
The worst thing about this story is that two months later I did buy a print of each of the photos. I hate myself for doing it but my excuse is that there was something wrong with my cameraphone and all my own photos came out a bit fuzzy....
stickystick your photos came out fuzzy as the bounty lady cursed it
My experience was that the woman was very pushy and couldn't take no for an answer. All the mothers seemed to be really pleased when the bounty woman walked in and I felt like I was in the middle of a horrible retake of stepford wives
I had a really nice bounty woman with ds2, as I was sat alone sobbing my heart out that he was in scbu, DH wasn't allowed on the ward until 9am and I was still not allowed to walk and therefore couldn't go and see ds2 myself, she came and hugged me, made me tea, handed me tissues and found a wheelchair to take me down to scbu herself.
She was just an all round good egg and I loved her for being kind. I couldn't care less about getting crap in the post and I always give fake phone numbers for stuff like that!
Oh and she didn't even ask about photos
I'm a crazy voice in the wilderness, but I loved my bounty packs!! I loved the mini sudocrem the free nappies, the travel wipes and the mountain of leaflets and even the phone calls don't bother me as I just said no ta and replace the handset. As an older mum <ahem> it appears things are different now, but I loved the freebies. Only freebies I got! No pressie for me from dh
I can't remember if there was a Bounty lady on the ward . I don't think so. I think I was given a voucher to collect a pack from Boots. I liked it but I love free samples . I love it when Clinique has there bag of free stuff promotions in free make up bags.
I never saw the bounty lady and I was on the post natal ward for six days. How did that happen?
Oh, and you can pick up child benefit forms from the job centre, I got ours from there as printer had packed up.
I had dd in the mlu and stayed in the room until we were discharged after 9 hours. We were just left a pack at the door. Phew
With my first dd the mw gave me mine for some reason but with dd2 i was so groggy i told her i wasnt interested in the pics etc and she looked at me like id shot a puppy. It pisses me off, they come onto the ward and fake fawn (like theyve not seen 1000 ugly babies before) and some mums are scrambling to find something in there mass of bags for the baby to wear in the god awful photos. Not a chance in hell was i going to disturb dd when she slept fuck all at night to dress her in something a bit more cute(?) to take shit pictures. they give you one FREE print of.... with their name on it. How sweet
I never thought anything of it at the time and I let her take the pictures. I quite liked the idea of a 'professional' photo of him so was welcoming. She arranged him very artistically and I stood behind her and snapped away with my phone as well.
Turns out a post c section mother with an iphone, off her tits on drugs and hormones is a better photographer than she is. I didn't buy her pictures but I have a lovely album of him from her arrangements.
IN YOUR FACE BOUNTY!!
Don't have biological children soo expected this thread to be about a chocolate bar or paper towels.....
i am going to be soooo disappointed if bounty lady doesn't come round and even more if she is and doesn't push for details
I took the free stuff but told her she couldn't have my number or email address. She didn't have a camera but I rather wish she did as 6 weeks on I still don't have any photos of myself with DS. DH is not one for taking photos.
When the Bounty lady came round, I just said "no, thank you " & she handed the bag anyway saying that she didn't need to take any details. I was all ready for a fight & she was perfectly nice!
My Bounty lady was fine, but it might have something to do with the fact that she had bumped into MIL outside and it turned out they used to work together (not at Bounty) so she might have just not wanted to push it with me.
Maybe there should be a MN badge for new mums to wear on the postnatal ward so that Bounty ladies know they not welcome and retreat hastily, rather than try to convince us that we need them and their wares?
YABU - really don't get the angst on here about it! Don't want it say no, if you do it means some free samples ( wipes box v handy as I remember!)
And I loved having those first day photos & birth announcements & baby book at a v, reasonable price. DD1 had an operation soon after her birth & I was ill & those photos captured her looking v. different to after her op.
Really don't get the ott reactions, tbh, just say no if you don't want it.
OP we complained after pfb as she started getting junk mail at 6 weeks ! The company admitted they had looked at the form we had filled it and DH had actually written on it that our details should not be shared - it seems they scan the forms before destroying.
Anyway they apologised, tried to blame admin error and the junk stopped.
With no2 we didnt even collect the pointless packs.
But surely the point is that a marketing firm should not be given access to potentially vulnerable women in a hospital? If it's just about the CB form and the freebies can't they just make up packs and leave them for the midwives to hand out rather than have people wandering around the wards with a sales pitch?
But they DON'T have a sales pitch - they ask if you would like your baby's picture taken & give you a bag of goodies! And often you don't see them. Had to go back to hospital to have dd2's photo taken!
I just wanted to say, the Bounty reps are not all horrible women. When I had DC3 I explained to the rep that came round that DC3 was in SCBU so she wouldn't be able to take photos etc and that I didn't want to give my address etc because I didn't want to receive the endless marketing that I'd had after DCs 1 and 2. She kindly "forgot" one of her packs and left it at the end of the bed for me when I was visiting DC3. No details taken. No marketing received.
I gave birth on Christmas Day so didn't meet any reps or even a lactation consultant! Even McDonalds was bloody closed!
Oh fabulous, thank you redtoothbrush - I shall have a go. Ironically, if I had not just had a baby I would have the time and resources to let rip at the hospital and Bounty (my employer's DPA officer is in my team, I have access to legal texts and PCs, printers etc) but on mat leave, I am stuck with typing one handed on a ipad ...
I've never understood the mumsnet preoccupation with Bounty. I had DC in two separate hospitals and they were no bother in either hospital, polite, chucked a pack at me, took no details, pointed out the CB form was inside and off they went. And DC2 was in NICU so I know all about stressful situations etc but they were just a friendly face. I've never even heard anyone in real life mention let alone complain about Bounty ladies. It's just nothing and all the fuss makes MN sound a bit deranged.
RedHelen, but if you read this thread you will see an awful lot of women HAVE been given a sales pitch - pushing for photographs, incorrectly telling women they won't be able to get Child Benefit, etc.
ll34 - my point is that they have taken my personal data and passed it to third parties, without my consent. I was not given the choice of saying no, as she lied and said she needed the data for "statistics". I should have been more alert to what was going on and told her to fuck off to the far side of fuck, but I was tired and not thinking straight. I wish I had just said no, that's why I'm pissed off!
And on MN there is a constant chorus of "you;re pregnant ill" "why should you get special treatment because you are pregnant" but as soon as you've had a baby you need huge levels of protection from ladies giving you nappy rash samples
Sarah - I'm glad you had a good experience, and I'm sure 1000s of women do, but if me, a professional with years of experience of telling
clients the other side in commercial negotiations to fuck off, after a birth with a good outcome can be conned, what about the truly vulnerable women? They have broken the law and stolen my details... I want revenge a satisfactory response!
But the point is, you're in hospital when they approach you - you are therefore automatically vulnerable, because you can't control who comes into your cubicle. You can't lock the door, and in many cases (post c-section women, or like me, with a catheter and still numb legs from emergency surgery and massive blood loss) can't even get out of bed to pull the curtain across. A c-section is a major operation, so yes, you are "ill" afterwards!
RedToothBrush great post.
I did a search for the compliance manager & found her! She has changed her name to Sarah Heaney & she is listed as Sarah Heaney (Wragg).
Her linkedin profile is here
Hope that helps.
OP - I hope you can follow redtoothbrush's advice. Let us know how you get on.
Does anyone know what the thread was called where all the posters gave their experiences of bounty after giving birth? I want to link it so that the posters above can understand the problem with bounty.
Read that and then tell me bounty should be allowed in hospitals!
Ffs so cross I forgot to make it a clicky link!
All the threads in the world only indicate the problems that SOME women had with Bounty and given that a lot of the problem is that they are feeling hormonal and vulnerable, the perspective may be a bit skewed. Reports on that thread are that Bounty women "gave a filthy look" or "looked shocked" or "founced off" or "I was made to feel". Just a
lot bit open to interpretation.
I've never felt automatically vulnerable in hospital. In fact I usually feel more resilient because it is too important not to be. I'm certainly capable of saying no, faking sleep or pushing a call button and do not need a MN campaign on an issue which the silent majority do not give a crap about and indeed a number of us found a positive aspect to. There are bad employees in all walks of life, I just find the clubby hysteria around Bounty on this forum, which is usually pretty kick-ass, somewhat pathetic.
Anyway, it's clearly going to be one of those days where MN just gets on my tits so I'm going to go and get some fresh air
I was in the ward for six days with my twins. Feeding them and expressing the extra milk they needed to treat their jaundice and syringing it into them was a 24/7 job, and the midwives were not sufficiently staffed to offer much help. Bounty woman barged in on 5 separate occasions forgetting I had already politely declined. Twice she woke me up from precious snatches of sleep. I was too tired to get furious, but it was intrusive and fucking annoying
Sarah nice way to completely devalue womens real experiences.
The reason is not right and the reason I believe its illegal is because when you are in a hospital bed you do not have the ability to walk away. Its not necessarily because your brain has gone because you have had a baby. Its because you are liable to be tired and more emotional than you would normally be and possibly simply be more concerned about more important things at that moment in time.
Trading standards state:
Aggressive commercial practices
7.—(1) A commercial practice is aggressive if, in its factual context, taking account of all of its features and circumstances—
(a)it significantly impairs or is likely significantly to impair the average consumer’s freedom of choice or conduct in relation to the product concerned through the use of harassment, coercion or undue influence; and
(b)it thereby causes or is likely to cause him to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise.
(2) In determining whether a commercial practice uses harassment, coercion or undue influence account shall be taken of—
(a)its timing, location, nature or persistence;
(b)the use of threatening or abusive language or behaviour;
(c)the exploitation by the trader of any specific misfortune or circumstance of such gravity as to impair the consumer’s judgment, of which the trader is aware, to influence the consumer’s decision with regard to the product;
(d)any onerous or disproportionate non-contractual barrier imposed by the trader where a consumer wishes to exercise rights under the contract, including rights to terminate a contract or to switch to another product or another trader; and
(e)any threat to take any action which cannot legally be taken.
(3) In this regulation—
(a)“coercion” includes the use of physical force; and
(b)“undue influence” means exploiting a position of power in relation to the consumer so as to apply pressure, even without using or threatening to use physical force, in a way which significantly limits the consumer’s ability to make an informed decision.
They then go to and clarify a few things.
Significant Impairment or Limitation
8.5 The CPRs refer to practices that ‘significantly impair’ and those that ‘significantly limit’ decisions (the latter is in the definition of undue influence).These are likely to have a very similar meaning and both will depend on the context.
8.6 Significant impairment might occur when, for example, a trader stays in a consumer’s home for so long that they feel compelled to sign a contract for a product.
Freedom of choice or conduct
8.7 The concept of freedom of choice is not limited solely to decisions about whether to purchase a product or not. It covers a wide range of choices that are likely to impact on transactional decisions.
BANNED PRACTICEs (sChEDULE 1)
(25) Conducting personal visits to the consumer’s home ignoring the consumer’s request to leave or not to return except in circumstances and to the extent justified to enforce a contractual obligation.
A door to door salesman visits a consumer to sell her some cleaning products. She tells him she is not interested and asks him to leave. He is determined to try and get her to change her mind and continues his sales pitch on her doorstep.This would breach the CPRs.
Giving false information to, or deceiving, customers
7.3A misleading action occurs when a practice misleads through the information it contains, or its deceptive presentation, and causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a different decision.
8.4 Undue influence is defined in regulation 7(3)(b) of the CPRs as:
‘exploiting a position of power in relation to the consumer so as to apply pressure, even without using or threatening to use physical force, in a way which significantly limits the consumer’s ability to make an informed decision’.
To spell out the problem here:
If you are in a hospital bed - whether you have had a baby or a hip replacement operation, you are in a position where the trader has a position of power over you, because you are a captive audience who is unable to walk away and my feel under undue pressure to give your details to them, just to get rid of them, particularly if they revisit on a daily basis or press saying "go on its free". This is exerting pressure in a situation where one party is more disadvantaged than normal. This is something you may never do in ordinary circumstances.
Approaching you for your personal data in a hospital bed for commercial reasons where they receive financial reward for selling your data in return for 'freebies' or marketing is an aggressive sales practice. Stuff from Bounty, is NOT free, if you are giving them your personal data and sign up to their 'club'.
If they are not EXPLICITLY stating what they are using the data for, they are potentially misleading you, as you may assume that are associated with the hospital in someway. It is NOT sufficient to state they are from Bounty and to expect women to know who and what Bounty are. Because of the setting of where this is done, there is an even higher risk that women may not realise what they are actually signing up to.
"Just saying no" under these circumstances may be something that women feel unable to do, despite normally giving sales people short shift. PRECISELY because they are exploiting a situation and using aggressive sales tactics
Bounty are not necessarily bad, but free access to women in this situation, does put women under undue pressure and makes them in some cases feel taken advantage of. You wouldn't let a stair lift sales person or a marketer for products for the elderly on a ward with people who have just had a hip replacement so why is this allowed? The system should be by request only in a ward, and preferably not on the ward at all, but perhaps in a side room or corridor where women can make a free unpressured choice to engage or not.
Oh and don't get me started about your Rights with regard to privacy and how this is being flouted by hospitals.
The point is that if even 1% of women find this intrusive or under increased pressure there is a problem.
How in the wide wide world of sport are they still getting away with this?
Bully for you Sarah that you felt fine after birth. I didn't!! I had a cs and couldn't move. I was desperately trying to get my baby to bf and really didn't want to have to have an argument with some bounty twat just to get my privacy back!
Then she fucked off and left the bloody curtain open!! So unbelievably rude!
Oh and saying 'knock knock' doesn't actually count as a request to enter if you don't wait for a response.
There are women who are in a lot worse state than me after birth and it's not right at all that they are disturbed and pressurised at that time.
I've never been burgled, hit, had a terrible haircut, fallen down the stairs, or all manner of other upsetting or annoying things.
I can understand that other people have experienced them and therefore believe they happen and sympathise.
Hi there WhatWillSantaBring
Congratulations on your baby
As you're finding out, this is a long-running issue on Mumsnet - and we have a Bounty Mutiny campaign about it.
The absolutely key thing is that parents in these situations need to complain, loud and long, to the hospital concerned. All our anecdotal evidence suggests that women find Bounty reps massively intrusive, but almost every single hospital we've spoken to about it says 'well, nobody ever complains'. (And of course it's understandable that parents of newborns have other things to do!)
Bounty's contracts are with individual hospitals, so that's where we need to apply pressure.
Please complain - feel free to copy us in on firstname.lastname@example.org! - and we will watch with interest.
I was on the postnatal ward after having DS4, who was in NICU. I hated that the bounty lady was allowed in to do her sales pitch when DH couldn't visit. She came in every day, looked at me and said "your baby's still in special care isn't he?" On the last day I was in she came up to me, put a bounty bag on the end of my bed and said "I just need to take some details". I smiled sweetly and said "no, I don't want a load of junk mail thanks" and she just looked shocked and walked off. The lady in the next bed wouldn't give her details either which I think was down to my influence
It's not a sales pitch, you say no & they walk off! Still don't get all the angst about it! Agree with Sarah, everyone I know either had the photos or not & no one moaned about it!
I'm pretty certain that the photos raised money for the premature babies too.
When the bounty lady came round after DD I cried and said that my baby was still in special care. She fucked off fairly sharpish. Never saw one after DS but I was in and out very quickly.
Am having DC3 later this year, can I shriek 'Mutiny on the Bounty' when they come by or will the midwives give me the eyes?
Helen, how about READING what I've said about how some women do not feel ABLE to say no because of the situation and the tactics that some Bounty ladies are using?
Or are you just blindly posting with your fingers in your ears going 'la la la, well it never bothered ME' without listening to how it effects others?
How would you feel if there were people marketing things in other wards in a hospital?
Do you not actually care or want to listen to how some women have found the experience very intrusive and in some cases distressing?
Or are these feelings somehow pathetic or not valid? Do you want to make these women feel even worse? Good for you giving them a kick in the teeth for reacting in a way that you don't approve of.
And don't you DARE lay the guilt trip of premature babies. Thats beyond low, and very manipulative way to try and get women to "put up and shut up" by suggesting that in someway they have selfish for no liking the experience.
when I was last in hospital (with a relative who had to be admitted) we were asked for our details so many times by so many people who didn't properly introduce themselves.
I guess they were all healthcare professionals, but couldn't be sure. similar on the maternity ward. I don't remember how often I had to give details but in the foggy tired and anaemic post birth state it is easy to just give details to the next person who asks...
I refused my first bounty pack from the mw booking in appointment and it was written in my notes as bounty pack not given and they foisted one upon me later on in the pregnancy when i was feeling much less fighty. However after the birth i was all geared up for the bounty lady this being dc 4 I had stuck up for myself in labour as much as i could with the doctor and the mw's were being proper lovely all pandering and caring so i felt this was a fight i could win. Then I didn't go up to the ward so no bounty bags or lady for me to deal with i was quite disappointed.
Then get this, I registered his birth and because of where we live and where ds was born you can register in one town but it get's sent to the nearest city to be properly inputted and they post you a birth certificate. In the envelope was an Emma's Diary dodah I felt robbed
Now if they came round with some nice soft loo roll and a bar of chocolates, I'd probably be more open to talking to them!
My sister has muma packs as part of her sling business so I got one of them - sooooo much better!
We have already said we will ask the mw to keep the bounty rep away from us. And it's private rooms, not a ward, so I will feel stronger about telling someone to bog off if necessary. I love the bounty photo I have of our daughter, but really, we could have taken it ourselves!
Why didn't you just say "no, thank you"?
I'd been in labour for 3 days. DS was tongue-tied and couldn't feed. I'd needed a catheter and had stitches and hadn't been able to sleep in the day since the birth, either. She was charming and polite and would. not. take. no. for. an. answer. They're trained salespeople, who will have had a lot of focus on objection-handling (I know - I worked my way through uni doing sales) and I was exhausted, shell-shocked and vulnerable, so really the perfect candidate for that sort of barrage. I eventually gave in to make her go the fuck away, which is so very common I would imagine at least half their sales leads are obtained that way - which is disgustingly unethical.
I should never have been in a position where I had to deal with an extremely persistent, pushy, aggressive sales pitch for my personal data when I was in a hospital, having just given birth, fgs. And your post, to be blunt, blames the victim. We TRIED to say no. We were not in a frame of mind where we felt able to be assertive enough - and that's why they target new mothers in hospital in the first place!
I hate Bounty. I think they are scum. I think any organisation whose business plan so heavily relies upon exploiting people in hospital deserves to go under, quite frankly.
It's not a sales pitch, you say no & they walk off!
Yes, that's right, we're all just pathological liars inventing our life experiences. I mean, you were there too, so you know, right?
I complained about the bounty woman to the post natal ward manager. She had burst into the cubicle and made a comment about me "not being up yet". I pointed out I'd had an emcs and she told me that " after her section she was up and about within a couple of hours and I should get my leggings on and have a walk". My DH had to bundle her out of the cubicle sharpish
As far as I'm concerned Bounty do use aggressive/exploitative sales practices for all the reasons outlined by PPs, and I can't believe they're still being allowed access to hospital wards either. At the time my dd was born (6 years ago) a Bounty rep walked into my room without knocking when I was in established labour. She had the good grace to look embarrassed: I didn't have a clue who she was and thought she must be a member of staff. It didn't occur to me that anyone other than medical staff would have access to patients. <wry smile emoticon>
It's a different hospital and much more recently, but I was interested to see that when my DS was born in Jan, the ward had given the Bounty rep a sort of 'station' on the main corridor - women could approach her if they wanted to, rather than the rep wandering into the bays and
barging in on targeting speaking to mums. A slight improvement but still think they shouldn't be allowed in hospitals full stop.
Sounds like a good idea ASmidge.
When the Bounty person came onto my ward I was gearing myself up to go mental at them if they opened my curtain without permission while i was bfing. To their credit they didnt try, but from what I could hear everyone else signed up. The woman next to me even said 'That's really nice of you, thanks' when she got her bag
What annoyed me the most was that my MIL was asking me when I was planning on applying for child benefit (she's v nosy and treats me like an idiot) and when I told her I was yet to print a form off she was like 'I think you're supposed to get a Bounty pack, everyone gets a Bounty pack, that's how you get your CB form' and I was like 'Just because they offer you one it doesn't mean you have to sign up. Their goal is to sell your details, and nothing else. Plus it is not the only way to get a CB form.' Cue her spouting nonsense about how I'd 'missed my chance' and 'they probably won't backdate it' when I had already been told by the woman registering my sons' birth that you could do so. Bounty need to be clear about their intentions because people like my MIL just get suckered in without questioning anything. I mean, why challenge the perfect stranger who has just approached you asking for your personal details (including your child's name ffs) in return for samples...
I work in maternity hospital, we asked a new mum to bring along her baby to a certain room at a specified time so that the paediatrician could assess her baby before she could take him home (baby had been poorly the previous day)
She refused to bring the baby for a check up in case she missed the bounty lady,and said she wasn't happy that she had been here 2 days and not seen her
Crickey I obviously missed all this! Had dd 20 years ago by c-section. Never met or heard of these people before. This sounds a real pain and the last thing you need after just giving birth. I would not have been a happy bunny as I loathe having my photo taken even when looking my best. How long has this been happening on maternity wards?
Erm, only over thirty years Raffles!
The first questioning of the practise was actually raised in 1981 I think!!!
People would be outraged if sales reps were stalking the orthopaedic ward, or the dialysis unit. And rightly so.
I hate how they trundle around wards dressed as someone who could easily be a member of staff. My own mum mistook one as a HCA and asked her for directions to the canteen. After giving birth to 11lb dd who had shoulder dystocia and having my 100+ stitches burst I was lying in my cubicle with my legs akimbo as pyjamas and blankets were too painful to have on me. I was worried about someone seeing me but the mw kindly made me a NOT TO BE DISTURBED UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES notice and pinned it to my curtain. Minutes later a head comes around the curtain. "Bounty photo lady, Are you decent?" Then the curtain gets half whipped back for "good light". She didn't notice that I was half naked or if she did she pretended she didn't. I was speechless but managed a distressed and squeaky "get out!" I didn't get a pack but I did pass her trolley bag on the way to the toilet and took one anyway. I don't consider a rainforest of leaflets, half a dozen piss pads, a crumpled nappy and the infernal pot of sudocrem to be worth all that hassle. I should point out that later on that day another mums visitor pulled my curtain back and took my chair without asking. It was a bad day.
I never had to suffer a Bounty woman (I wouldn't call them 'ladies').
Many Years ago, I had mine at home and the Welcome Baby pack was brought to my home by a rep of Welcome Wagon. I don't know how she heard about new babies. It was just free samples and a couple of leaflets but it really did run a social club for new mothers. No exercising or stuff like that - it really was a social club with speakers at each loal hall meeting or quizzes - all sorts went on. Each local 'club' had a committee and so on. Welcome Wagon died a death .................
"you say no & they walk off!"
Or they stalk off with an indignant look, then burst into your cubicle once again the following day
I growled at the bounty woman when she approached us in hospital, so effectively she keft the building. Wife had no hassle for the week she was in.
Our health board are considering banning them though, still don't see how it was never permitted.
They prey on first-timers especially as more women will be wise to it after that.
I'm sure most people would assume that anyone who barges in and demands their personal details in a hospital must have very good reason. They should be banned.
FFs go read the other thread linked above if you cant see the problem with bounty. I have no children so haven't come across them but I read the above thread "run in with a bounty woman" completely open mouthed in shock at what this vile company employs people to do. Would it be ok if they were trawling cancer treatment wards for patient details to sell?
I am yet to see a nice bounty photo... They all look the same. Just strange (actually I daren't put on here what I think they look like... Don't hit me!)
<<faints>>> I've made DOTD!!!!
Thanks MNHQ - I will definitely take this further, as I know they are in breach of the DPA by selling my details without my consent. Regardless of their arguments for having reps on wards (I think it's utterly wrong, but I can see that is just my opinion) breaches of the DPA are facts that can't be denied!
My fucking neighbour 'accidentally' put my address on her bounty form so now I'm receiving all the depravity-related mail instead of her, crafty cow.
I sent them an email saying that having suffered a MC myself that it was distressing to receive such mail and to remove me from their list. They may well delete me but I bet every bastard company they've sold my address to won't
I was ready for the bounty lady when I had my ds last year. Ready to turn her away, ready to tell her to shove her child benefit form, ready to cause mutiny on the ward. But I was sent home at 6.30am. It's like they knew...
The bottom line is that hospital is highly distressing for many patients, with many also struggling to deal with complete loss of privacy and modesty. Adding non-medical staff, sales people for God's sake to the mix is just appalling. The stories here are a national disgrace. Some are practically worthy of legal action.
I specifically wrote on the bottom of the form I was aggressively handed that 'I DO NOT CONSENT TO THIRD PARTY MARKETING' - they ignored this. Bastards.
The thing that bothered me most in the run up to my son's birth was the fact that the Bounty rep would be able to come & hassle me at times when even my family wouldn't be allowed on the ward. That's it for me really, they aren't medical staff but have access to patients as if they were.
I put on my birth plan that I wanted no contact from Bounty. The mw brought me a pack and that was it, no details changed hands. I'd do the same again.
I signed the campaign in the summer to remove the reps from hospitals and I stand by that.
Can I just say that, purely on the strength of mn, I told my German friend who recently gave birth here about Bounty. She was shocked but said later she was very glad she was prepared as they did presnt themselves as though they were HCAs, and basically tried to make out that because she was forrin she didn't understand the system and had to give them her details.
I believe she sent them packing rather energetically.....
I think the bounty photos look a bit cheap. I cant explain it, they just do.
I was terrorised by one just after having DS by c section, she pounced not long after I had my drain removed and was feeling a but nauseated by the pain. She demanded I answer her questionnaire, and asked what brand of disposable nappy I planned to use. I told her none, we used full time cloth. She found this quite incredible, and asked what I planned to use when we were on holiday etc. I told her cloth. Well, what will you use when not using cloth, she squeaked, annoyed. Just name a brand! We never use disposables, I said, I don't like them. BUT I CANT COMPLETE THE FORM IF YOU DONT NAME A BRAND, she growled. I smoked sweetly at her until she understood that this wasn't a problem I was willing to assist her with, and stalked off.
She seemed to find this even more annoying than a straight refusal. It's a worthwhile tactic if you want to fuck with them.
They need to be banned. Wth are they doing on wards??
With DS one of them tried to barge in while I was still <on the labour ward>, shortly after my very traumatic labour and DS' resuscitation. How
the fuck on earth she was allowed in there I don't know but after some swearing from me DH gave her his details to get rid of her the fool.
When I had DD last year I was at least on the post-natal ward before having a visit. The Bounty rep was most put out when I refused to give her a phone numbe or email address. She gave me that crap about how they were collecting name stats but didn't even bother writing DD's name down correctly
Ooh that should have been on the labour ward whoops
I'm ashamed to say that, even though I knew all about them and all about my rights, I still gave them my details. Because I was exhausted and emotional, and it seemed easier than having an argument.
I'm upset at myself, but I'm even more angry at them for trying to take advantage of women in this vulnerable state, and succeeding (in my case).
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Like many others, I was tired and emotional and gave my details without thinking much of it.
Then the junk mail started arriving, including a free sample of baby rice when DD was less than 3 months which infuriated me as I strongly believe that babies should not be having anything but milk until at least 5 months, so that fact that they sending out free samples in the hope of encouraging early weaning is outrageous.
Was meant of had a home birth which didnt work out so the fact that, not only did I end up so far removed from what I'd hoped for, I also became just another target for this deceptive marketing scam feels another kick in the teeth.
Next time around I will be telling Bounty women where to shove her stupid marketing pack.
They are clearly only getting away with this because everyone is is too tired and preoccupied to give it a second thought until it is too late.
The Bounty ladies though do not just walk away and that is the main problem. They are able to give you a lot of grief before the leave as you are not able to move and walk away. THIS is the issue.
I only had a bad experience with Bounty when I declined to give them my details after the birth of my last child. Fortunately DH was there with me, but he had to be very rude to get her to leave. She was stood there insisting I should give her my details and when I politely declined told me I was a bad parents and suggested I didn't care about my new born baby. I can't remember the words exactly but it was "so you don't care about receiving valuable information about your baby then" and when I said no and started to feel a bit upset my DH stepped in and said "if you don't leave immediately I will call a member of staff" that she left muttering obscenities under her breath. I often wonder what would have happened if I had been on my own and DH wasn't with me and consequently what she did to other women on the labour ward who declined.
I should have reported it but I couldn't be bothered afterwards - I wish I had now.
I'll be having DC1 in the next couple of weeks, thank you for this thread; I've fully briefed DH and our close family not to fall for this bullshit.
That's great to hear Dita, I will certaining be making sure any of my friends who have babies in the future are aware of Bounty's sneaky ways!
Great advice from those who put "no Bounty" in their births plans too!
I didn't have the rep this time because I went home straight from the delivery room. What I did have was the midwife giving me the bag of crap and returning 3 or 4 times, badgering me to fill in the registration form! Each time I mumbled something about doing it later but finally under her watchful eye had to take the form out... she was really pushy. In the end I lied, said I was already registered and promised to update my details online. Then left the bag behind. I'm not sure why she was so forceful. Perhaps she gets into trouble if she can't get details.
I should imagine giving birth can leave a woman vulnerable and any company taking advantage of that vulnerability shouldn't be allowed near them.
The same goes for those awful photographers who prey on mothers love for their new shiny child.
OP...you may be a lawyer but you were vulnerable and this company are/were and will continue to be wrong.
RedToothBrush loving your work on this thread - clear and to the point!
Bounty shouldn't be permitted in hospitals.
> That's it for me really, they aren't medical staff but have access to patients as if they were.
Yes that's exactly it.
For me when I had dc4, the bounty lady was an irritating intrusion.
For the lady in the bed opposite though, (who'd had a very traumatic birth, was struggling to BF and had a baby whose face was badly bruised from forceps) it must have been awful to have the bounty lady burst in whilst she was trying to express milk, took one look at her baby and gasped "you won't be wanting a photo of that one"
It is also wrong that my family had to stick to strict visiting times, as otherwise it would be disturbing new mothers when they need to rest, yet the bounty lady is allowed to disturb them whenever she likes.
Btw and more to the OP's point, I also distinctly remember not being asked to consent to marketing. Because I would have definitely said no to that.
Do the RedTooth advised things above about where to complain etc.
I would ban them entirely. There is no place on an NHS Birth ward for any outsiders to come in except relatives and friends. Mothers need peace. Even if only 1 in 100 women don't want them there (and I suspect it is more like 1 in 2) I would still say that was grounds enough to ban them,. I would imagine the NHS trust is paid £50k - £80k a year if they allow Bounty in . Some resist the money. Good for them.
Can't believe this thread is still going.
"My experience was that the woman was very pushy and couldn't take no for an answer. All the mothers seemed to be really pleased when the bounty woman walked in and I felt like I was in the middle of a horrible retake of stepford wives"
Yes. Similar here.
The bounty packs were delivered to our rooms/bedsides by pixies. It's all rather hazy actually, but the packs were just there for us immediately following the birth.
Anyway, Bounty woman walks around with clipboard pointing to the babies and saying "Name?" The women, both of whom had called their babies Lexi (this is not relevant I admit, I wondered if one had copied the other), gushed enthusiastically and gave all their info. I felt almost guilty in refusing. I got some odd glances, certainly.
The pack is rubbish. A waste of paper and packaging
I'm not sure I remember correctly, but isn't it the case that the bounty people are paid commission on number of details obtained?
If so, that explains why they are so persistent in obtaining your details.
I need to complain about my hospital experience, and this has reminded me to do it...I saw the Bounty lady each time I changed ward, heard her pressuring a lady across the way from me who could not even SPELL HER OWN NAME she was so out of it, saying, "i'll write down how I think your name is spelled and you tell me if that is right" for her email address...and even the midwife told me it was the only way I could get the child benefit form...at which point I told her that it wasn't and that I would report her if she even thought about telling new mums that it was, and how could anyone trust her as a midwife if either she didn't know this basic fact, or was lying about it...
Off to pen my complaint...
Wuxiapian Sun 02-Mar-14 12:59:58
Can't believe this thread is still going.
And why do you think that is???!
Maybe you should consider exactly why.
I had ds3 nearly 12 weeks ago. The bounty lady asked if I wanted photos and got a firm but polite no thank you. She then dropped off the bags and went. That was it!
However I have tested Bounty on their data mining by completing the form to get the first bag (when pregnant) and specifically scrawling the address to almost illegibility and specifically requested not to pass on my details. Pampers have started sending me coupons to an address that could only be an interpretation of my scrawlings (quite impressed the royal mail are getting them to me tbh), so clearly Bounty are still flogging information when they have been asked not to.
* took one look at her baby and gasped "you won't be wanting a photo of that one"*
That is outrageous!
Whoever thinks that Bounty is harmless, IMO has very questionable morals.
I must be one of the few who didn't get bothered by the sounds of it. Was given my pack & pampers that was it! Nothing to fill in!
I never gave it a 2nd thought with dd1 but this time round...i just find it intrusive, a pain in the arse and at the most inconvenient time. I fucking hate being disturbed and when you're baby isnt latching well, youve
had fuck all sleep and feeling a bit low because youve not seen dd1 or dp in 3 days its really not nice. Not to mention the shit through the post. Grrr.
So those that are happy with Bounty - would you also be happy with say, the used car salesman from down the road coming into the wards and looking at your notes (someone mentioned bounty people doing that in one thread) and drawing curtains on half naked vulnerable women? Didn't think so. Is this only ok because it's a women doing it even though she has no right to be there and no right to be able to access any of your details. She's no different to the woman that works in Tescos or the one that sells phones in vodaphone. Would you be happy for them to be on the wards bothering women who've just given birth?
Is it only ok because they are selling baby related tat and photos? What if they were going round pushing non baby related stuff - is that still ok?
I find it quite shocking that these people are allowed to do this and even more shocking that some people can't see why it's wrong.
I was in hospital not very long ago for surgery and was in for about the same time as I was when I had DD. Funnily enough, no equivalent to the Bounty lady came round. Why is it ok to shill on the postnatal ward and not on the surgical emergency/any other ward?
As part of the objection handling the Bounty woman swore blind I'd be opted out of marketing. Logically, I should have wondered why she was so insistent I let her complete the form in that situation, but after no sleep in 4 days, 3 of which I'd been labouring, I just gave in to get rid of her. And lo, 6 months later I had to abandon that email account because the junk was so colossal.
I hate, hate hate Bounty. They have an absolutely exploitative attitude to women's personal identity info at a chronically vulnerable time in their lives, they lie in a manner that seems almost systematic, and they presumably pay on a commission basis, if the women's attitudes to getting that data are any guide. I think one of those rogue tradesmen TV shows should try infiltrating and seeing how the arses train their staff and what they tell them their approaches should be.
I have just found this job advertisement for Bounty. It states that they earn 'commission only'
Maybe that is why they are so desperate and pushy. And people think they are ethical?! Pah!
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
I loved my Bounty packs. I gave a fake phone number so was never bothered there. Checked in my BFF's Bounty pack last week and it was even more stuffed with goodies than mine was 8 years ago. Samples, full sized products and coupons. What is not to love?
Have a NYE baby, no one to be seen next morning ! Got away with that one.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Blimey, a bunch of samples and all logic goes out the window. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
I also opted out of marketing and was inundated.
I note on the job advert that Bounty are an equal opportunities employer.
I don't think I would be comfortable with a male Bounty employee - especially as they would not be a HCP.
Ah, how lovely. "you will be working alongside HCPs and new mums ".
After reading about
devil's offspring Bounty reps on here I was ready. I growled at the woman who tried to give me the pack of utter shite and a firm 'no thank you' seemed to do the trick.
She never returned, even though we were on the post natal ward for four days. Interestingly enough all other mothers accepted the Bounty pack.
I don't think I'd have found a male Bounty worker any worse than the female one I saw. Was it OK for her to barge in because she was female?
This time around I too said no. I was then just offered the bag but smiled and said no thank you to that too.
This time I was actually more offended by the woman offering to do the ceramic footprints for £70!!!! No one bought that, funnily enough.
I think I got off lightly, or encountered a rare new specimen - a bounty rep with feelings/conscience. She simply popped her head around the curtain, took one look smiled and whispered 'I'll just leave this here'.
No asking for details or photos or barging in or benefit lies - odd?!?
Unless she felt a bit sorry for me as I was quite poorly and DS was asleep at the side of me looking all of his (humongous-or felt like) 10+lbs.
If she hadn't I'd have fashioned a noose out of the drips to deter her.
Combine, if they all behaved like that there'd be less of an issue.
I have just found this job advertisement for Bounty. It states that they earn 'commission only'
Yep. If they can't force you to sign up, then they don't get a penny. Fairly huge incentive to lie, let alone adopt high pressure sales techniques.
Perhaps ^"Your commission-only employment status is not my problem. Go away and stop harassing me or I will make a formal complaint" should be made into printouts pregnant women can get from a MN link, pack in their birth bags, and hand over in the hospital as needed. I could have bloody well done with one - would have got rid of her, I think, when nothing I had the energy to say did the trick.
Having been wise to the Bounty issue thanks to MN, I was all geared up ready to give them what for if they came a-knocking when I had DC1. However, after a traumatic birth, 48 hours of no sleep, a shocking number of stitches and still being attached to a catheter, and having been visited by her 3 times in 24 hours, I took the path of least resistance and handed over all my details . I've been bombarded with mailing crap ever since.
Recently found out I'm pregnant with DC2
conceived just so I can have a second attempt at telling a Bounty rep to fuck off
Wuxiapian Sun 02-Mar-14 12:59:58
Can't believe this thread is still going.
Do you work for them? O_o
Not at all, Ginger
Yes, I think they're a PITA and, yes, I do believe it's an invasion of privacy, but, saying "no" really shouldn't be that hard.
I'd just come out of a Cat 1, life saving emergency section when Bounty started wheeling herself about the ward. My words were not minced. She walked away.
I have a plan to pretend I think they are a HCP and flash my vagina at them and ask them to check my tear please.
> saying "no" really shouldn't be that hard
But people don't realise they can say no, especially when Bounty women tell them they need the pack for their child benefit form, and demand details without explaining it's not compulsory to give them.
<<faints>>> I've made DOTD!!!!
Thanks MNHQ - I will definitely take this further, as I know they are in breach of the DPA by selling my details without my consent. Regardless of their arguments for having reps on wards (I think it's utterly wrong, but I can see that is just my opinion) breaches of the DPA are facts that can't be denied!
Do let us know what happens WhatWillSantaBring
And anyone else who has had a relatively recent experience with Bounty that you think was out of line - do please complain to the hospital. It's the hospitals who have individual contracts with Bounty, and the hospitals who decide whether to renew these contracts - so that really is (we think) the best way to get something done. And please do copy us in on any correspondence if you'd like to - email@example.com.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Totally the wrong thread. Sorry.
Fuck complaining through the usual channels. Ask them into your bay and then proceed to strip off, flash your lady garden, and ask them to change a nappy for you as you are airing your Parts.
I spoke to Dr Dan Poulter about this recently and he seemed to think that they shouldn't go on the wards any more!
Lottie, this was Dan Poulter letter on the subject from last June.
You'd think that Dan would do more to ENFORCE this if he was serious about it.
He is my MP and I am very unimpressed with him. I have been trying to contact him after talking to him about something when I met him recently. He has ignored three emails from me!!!
Firstly, bounty bags are useless bollocks. I knew nothing of them but was absolutely horrified when they approached me after my first child was born. As soon as she started talking about my chil benefit forms, I kicked her out. Disgusting.
Second time round she didn't get a chance to even open her mouth....!
I just read your OP and want to hug you - soul sister.
YY they got me too - and I knew they were coming. I was gob smacked as to why I engaged at all - I guess it says something about the state we are in post birth.
I think nobody ever complains because A) they are too busy HAVING JUST HAD A BABY!!! and B) like me you just feel like you did something very daft/stupid, and you "didn't have to", and you just crack on with your life.
Congratulations on your baby. Bounty are horrible - the mumsnet campaign needs a new lease of life. Maybe we need to find a way to say boycott brands who advertise with them so we hit them where their purse strings are! or pester those brands
I told the woman where to go (which actually meant i missed the child benefit form - another story) so maybe we need a mumsnet thread naming and shaming brands who advertise with them. remember how that brought down the News of the world!
"Many mothers and their families value the information and other benefits they receive from parenting clubs or other support organisations. This information often includes accessible information on important subjects such as preventing cot death, car seats and how to access benefits. Bounty has helped with the promotion of Department of Health messages on whooping cough, encouraging pregnant women to have the flu jab and encouraging women to sign up to the NHS Information Service for Parents."
Isn't this information that the NHS can give just give us themselves? Surely they don't need a third party to give us some leaflets....
I agree LaraCroft. The information could just be given out with no "Bounty Lady" required.
You know, I'm a really assertive person, usually. I've even worked in sales, so know the tricks and the objection-handling schtick. I even have a law degree from a good university, so I know how to argue and what data protection law mandates. I went into hospital knowing about Bounty, disapproving of them, and determined to tell them to eff off.
I folded completely. And when my baby was very poorly and failing to thrive, and was eventually diagnosed with some feeding problems, complaining and my resentment were forgotten about until much later - by which time, it was too late to grumble. So I'll now be down as one of those women who can't have minded, because I never said anything.
So many women do who would never normally, because we are vulnerable for numerous reasons and on many levels, and that is why Bounty don't ask HV to offer the option to women at their first visit, with all funds to the NHS. They know damn well they're going for the jugular at a time most women won't have the wherewithall to tell them to go fuck themselves. And won't complain, because hello? They have a newborn baby to care for and can barely remember the phone does not in fact belong in the fridge (well, okay, maybe that's just me...). And it is that which is so, so deeply offensive.
I think I was very lucky with the Bounty lady we had, wasn't fussed when we didn't want any photos taken and didn't push for details (and we didn't give them either) and was actually quite lovely and I'm very sorry to hear of other people's horrible experiences. Husband took the bag though because we needed another sample pot of Sudocrem, apparently. But these Bounty reps shouldn't be in hospitals at all, they're not there to help new mothers, they're there to make money, plain and simple.
Corney that's nice to hear. I agree they shouldn't be there at all, but it's appalling their pay is commission based at all, let alone commission only. No wonder they are so very aggressive and pushy, on the whole. And when dealing with women straight after childbirth, those tactics are targeted on extremely vulnerable people.
I was all geared up for this when having DD 4 last month. Been reading MN bounty campaign in the summer. I agree its horrendous that any sales person is allowed to prowl a hospital ward.
Was in the bloody loo when the bounty woman arrived!
Came out of the toilet and was pottering round the bed when DH, who had been sat the whole time with baby, casually mentioned ''some woman wanting our details and something to do with photos''. He'd asked her if it was free (love him ) been very non-plussed that she was trying to sell something on a labor ward, and sent her packing. He got the pack though. Two of them, in fact
IME bounty pack hasn't changed much in years. A couple of useful 50p/£1/£2 off cupons for cream/nappies, and 2 samples - rest of it is advertising bumph and promises of £10/£20 off - but only on orders for goods worth £100 plus. And a whole leaflet promsing free stuff online - but that all turns out to be cheaply made stuff in America which you have to fork out £10/£20 postage for (and sign up for a lifetime supply of spam emails!!)
Hospital provided perfectly adequate health info. leaflets about baby, sleep, feeding and support links.
I also found bounty pretty rirritating- them getting something out of you,in the guise of it being a treat for you. However I feel a little uncomfortable with some of these posts,lambasting the Bounty women. They are mostly working class women who are probably doing the work for much needed cash. They are unlikely to have the option of much more satisfying work. Or indeed better paid work ( unlike many of the posters on here). Maybe we should remember this before we get on our high horses. And apologies if others have already made this point, I don't have time to read the whole thread.
whataboutbob I suggest you read this and other threads and save your sympathy for the new mothers. There are many, many stories of these bounty women displaying very poor, if not offensive, behaviour.
I'm totally with whataboutbob on this. I'm also really uncomfortable lambasting muggers. They are mostly working class who are probably doing the work for much needed cash. They are unlikely to have the option of much more satisfying work. Or indeed better paid work (unlike some of the posters on here). Perhaps we should remember this before we get on our high horses.
Anyway, this is the letter I sent to my MP a few days ago (identifying details removed). I'll let you know if/when I get a reply:
Re: EDM 319 - Marketing on maternity wards [http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2013-14/319 - you can see if your MP has signed as the signatures are below]
I recently discovered I was pregnant again and attended my GP to begin
the referral process to the midwife and my hospital consultant. As part
of this, I received a pile of marketing leaflets in a Bounty pack.
It reminded me this time last year when I was in hospital following the
birth of my second daughter. While sitting on a hospital bed with a
urinary catheter in place, only a sheet covering my bottom half, and
trying to breastfeed my 16 hour old newborn baby, a stranger popped her
head round the curtains.
This stranger wasn't the breastfeeding counsellor coming to help
establish breastfeeding. It wasn't one of the overworked midwives
coming to remove my catheter or check on us after a difficult labour
the night before. It wasn't the paediatrician coming to check my new
daughter following the stillbirth of her elder sister 14 months before.
It wasn't my young son coming to meet his new little sister as visitors
weren't allowed on the ward at that time of the day.
It was a sale representative from Bounty coming to harvest my personal
details to sell to third parties under the pretence of the free gift of
a bag of spam!
I didn't give her my details but there are many vulnerable women who
feel pressured to at a very precious and tender time in their lives.
I was therefore pleased to see that last year you signed EDM 319
condemning these practices.
I'd like to know now what action you have taken since, particularly in
relation to [our local hospital], and what response you have
had from the [hospital] regarding removing 'the Bounty lady' from the wards.
I agree these practices are awful. We should challenge the NHS 's symbiosis with Bounty. Clearly there is something in it for them and that's why they let the reps have the run of the place.
My gripe when i was last on a maternity ward was that there were TVs by all beds. The partner of the woman opposite me watched the football, at top volume. Just after you've given birth, are trying to get some rest, establish breast feeding etc. None of the nurses (who mostly stayed well away form the ward, preferring to congregate around their desk area) saw fit to ask him to turn it down. Clearly the TVs are there because there's money in it for the hospital. It's hard to imagine that being allowed in the early days of the NHS- I like to imagine a stern matron coming along and telling that guy in no uncertain terms to switch the TV off. Again no consideration for the new mothers' needs.
er, whataboutbob, so it's ok for poor working class women (people?) to be bad at their job because they are poor and working class with few options? I don't think so! Don't you think that everyone should be respectful and polite when carrying out their job, irrespective of their background?
The Bounty people don't have to behave in the way that many of them do. I am quite happy to lambast the horrible Bounty woman that disturbed me without permission when I was vulnerable and traumatised after my horrific birth, with my ds very poorly in SCBU. She came into my private side room (moved there after being uncontrollably distressed on the main postnatal ward), without asking permission, and actually said "where is your baby?!". What a stupid woman she was. The NHS should have no truck with this organisation who can't control their staff from behaving so unprofessionally. Unfortunately money overrides concern for women's welfare in many NHS trusts.
DinaShores Thank you for that link. I looked at it and my MP is not in the list. Surprise, surprise. Anyway, I don't vote for him because I don't like him - not because he's Conservative but because just I don't like him. Our previous MP was in the Labour party but I voted for him not his party because he was a b****y good MP, dealing with his constituents as if they were people not just voters.
Do we feel the same about door to door salesmen who go and visit vulnerable old people?
They are just doing their job...
I'm pretty sure Bounty Ladies know when they are deliberately misleading and when a women says no or when she simply just doesn't know what she's filling in because English isn't her first language or how insensitive she is when she calls a baby ugly etc etc.
It doesn't matter which class you come from or how much you need the money. You still can choose whether to behave in an ethical manner and you damn well know when you break the rules. If you break the rules, then you should be prepared for the consequences.
Whataboutbob can you back up the assertion that commission-only, aggressive saleswomen are in general poverty stricken, working-class women? It wasn't my own personal experience with Bounty, and it certainly hasn't been my experience more generally. It also seems unlikely that it will be work undertaken by those on very low incomes because it's solely commission-based, and the erratic nature of those earnings would play merry hell with any tax credits, housing benefits or council tax benefits the employee would be entitled to. So it will primarily attract people who want an additional source of income, but are not benefits-dependent - ie not the poorest.
Can you also explain why you think working class people are likely to be less empathetic, and to have less integrity, than those with more money? Seems a rather unpleasantly snobbish assertion, really.
As for televisions in wards - no, they shouldn't be on that loudly and a midwife should have said something; actually it should IMO be compulsory for headphones to be worn. But there's a clear and apparent benefit to mothers of access to television. Having their personal identity data bullied out of them at an extremely vulnerable time so they can be buried under a deluge of spam ever after, not so much. The ethical comparison is simply not there.
Look perfect storm I'm not interested in a bunfight. I think it s reasonable to assert that the bounty reps are on the whole not recruited amongst the middle classes, although I ll admit I m in London,. Maybe it would be different in areas of high unemployment.
I did though find the tone of 80% of the posts earlier rather hateful towards these women.
Can't believe this is allowed.
We could create a collective person whose details we give to the bounty woman.
Name "Ms Vaginka Semen"
Address "<Insert personal address of bounty chief exec here sure we can find this online>"
And so on and so forth?
"I did though find the tone of 80% of the posts earlier rather hateful towards these women."
I think there is justifiably a lot of anger about women who are allowed access to vulnerable women at an incredibly emotional, joyous, terrifying moment of life who often lie or mislead to harvest personal details that will then (without you giving appropriate consent) be sold on to third parties. Their work is morally reprehensible!
I was the only mum on the ward when ds was born- silly bint came back 3 times. 3rd time I listened to the pitch, nodded, smiled, and still said no. She then tried again the next morning where I loudly commented to all of the brand new overnight arrivals on the ward that the speech I'd had yesterday was more painful than my recent forceps delivery and would she please leave me in peace.
She huffed and puffed and finally fucked off. Did wonders for new mum stress.
I kinda hope she's there for baby 2
Had a run-in with a Bounty "lady" meself this morning*. She walked in to my cubicle uninvited and attempted to collect mine and my new daughter's details.
When asked as to what it was for, she answered in a deliberately vague and misleading fashion as to what it was for- and when I directly challenged her she flat out denied it was for marketing purposes and refused to answer my Q that she wasn't a member of the medical team.
Poor DP was mortified with me at first, but that's because he's a naice MC boy who automatically complies with anyone flashing a laminated badge at him.
*that's for your v. timely thread OP btw.
Very good idea daphnehoneybutt
whataboutbob, the thing is that somehow you are excusing their behaviour because they are women. And there is babies involved and its a 'nice sweet fluffy job' rather than double glazing sales or home improvement or other sales professions which have a reputation for being dubious.
Yet they are using the same high pressure sales tactics that are BANNED in these other scenarios because they are considered unfair and aggressive.
I don't really get how that works.
Saucy, I know you are very busy, but PLEASE try and write a complaint to the hospital.
I wasn't aware that disagreeing with a poster on AIBU and asking that they provide some sort of backing for their claims makes me "looking for a bunfight". You posted something fairly controversial, and as others have pointed out, you did so in support of sales techniques that are banned in scenarios involving far less vulnerable targets. You surely can't expect that to go unaddresses? You also ignored my point about the impact on benefits of the really low paid, and the fact that you're seemingly saying poorer women have less integrity than the better off. I don't think that is a fair assumption to make at all. I also asked if you had any data to back the original assertion up, and you didn't actually answer.
As to the tone being hateful - the people expressing anger have been harassed, lied to, insulted and their privacy invaded in the hours immediately after childbirth, all with the aim and intention of exploiting them. I'm afraid I think that behaviour is in itself rather hateful.
Ok. I have also been at the receiving end of bounty's tactics first time round got sucked in, second time round saw them for what they are and decided not to engage with them and then move on. If others have the energy to take Bounty on, then that's good. I absolutely do not support the sales tactics and business model which are deceitful and exploitative, I agree.what I m uncomfortable is the condescending and contemptuous comments about the women who do the work. I do not feel that poorer women have less integrity, just fewer choices. I. M sure there are plenty of wealthy, well educated women doing ethically dubious yet well paid jobs. Jobs in which the moral dubiousness can be better concealed. i think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. But as a last word, I work in the NHS and I know it runs in great part thanks on the good will and humanity of underpaid working class women.
I think the fact you keep saying that they are poorer or less educated women who work for Bounty is incredibly offensive but do carry on.
Saucy, I know you are very busy, but PLEASE try and write a complaint to the hospital.
Seconded! And do feel free to copy us in - firstname.lastname@example.org - if you'd like to.
Congratulations on the new baby
Just to let you all know: Justine and KatieMN had a rather productive meeting with health minister Dan Poulter today - you can see the details here.
Hope you're all getting on well with your complaints - we need your examples of recent bad practice, so Santa and others, if you'd like to submit your examples of your experiences for us to take up with the trusts concerned, do please email us at email@example.com.
Thanks and hope the new babies are all thriving
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