Baby at 46

(346 Posts)
TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 08:12:49

My lovely mum is going for fertility checks tomorrow to see how difficult it will be to conceive. At 46, she's not receiving that much positive feedback. She always wanted a big family and only had me. One of her biggest regrets.

I'm fairly certain it's not empty nest syndrome as I've lived away for 9 years now. I'm 26 and have a DD myself of 2.5 or a midlife crisis as, like I say, she has always wanted this and hasn't just gone and bought a Porsche

She's not the healthiest 46 yr old. Diets not great, smokes like the proverbial chimney, don't think she'd quit but would cut down but that's another thread has around a glass or more of wine a night. Her life is set up very much as a 46 year old. I don't imagine a baby would fit in easily. She's also self employed and recently set up her own business. She's also not in the stablest of relationships.

Most people have said about tiredness and not realising how knackering it is. However, I said that when I was 24. Her friends who had children at 38 and 40.ish have not been as supportive as you'd think.

Anyway, I'm basically asking if anyone has any constructive advice for her. She's fed up of people putting her down and dismissing it as a fanciful idea. Is it as bad as they say or should she happily go ahead?

Thanks in advance wink

OddFodd Mon 24-Feb-14 08:16:33

Is she rich? Is she thin? You need to be both to go through fertility treatment at her age. And the odds aren't great (and I say that as someone who had a baby at 42).

Clutterbugsmum Mon 24-Feb-14 08:17:58

She's fed up of people putting her down and dismissing it as a fanciful idea. Is it as bad as they say or should she happily go ahead?

Or people telling the truth, that it is unlikely she would get pregnant at 46 or does she want people to agree with her.

I would have thought if she is really serious about having a baby surely she would do everything to be healthier as a person before looking at fertility treatment.

lljkk Mon 24-Feb-14 08:20:31

What is a "life set up very much as a 46yo"? I know I've not got that.
I'm 46 & still my life revolves around the children (youngest just 6yo).
I couldn't handle having another one now, but I think it's easier for her, she's had decades between babies to recover.

She really needs to stop smoking no matter how she goes ahead. She can start up again after baby is a few yrs old if she's that keen. Cutting alcohol completely would also help her fertility. Odds are that she'd have to go for private ivF & an egg donor to proceed, though. Those things are huge hassles in my mind, but maybe not for her. Do people our age get the chance to foster? Might be a taster to decide if she's really up for it.

Or get a puppy. Lots of people in her position would opt for the puppy.

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 08:22:23

Clutter, that is exactly what I have said. You just would, wouldn't you.

It has obviously been mentioned that at 46 the chances are very slim. She has been pregnant twice since 40. I think around 41 and 42. She miscarried and I think it affected her greatly as those who were supposed to support her basically said, what are you doing wanting a baby at this age.

I'm more looking at the negative comments than chances. I'm hoping she understands just how slim they are.

Her DP is also being checked out

SnowHOHOboarder Mon 24-Feb-14 08:26:49

I can see why people are being disparaging - she is likely passed her natural fertile years, she doesn't look after her health and is not in a stable relationship. Even disregarding the age factor I would probably not be supportive of a friend wanting to get pregnant under those circumstances.

I think it's not very likely that she will achieve success with fertility treatment given her age/ health etc so could just be setting herself up for crushing disappointment.

Has she looked into fostering? It could be a way she could indulge her nurturing side?

SnowHOHOboarder Mon 24-Feb-14 08:27:37

Past

MorrisZapp Mon 24-Feb-14 08:28:09

I think this might be one of those situations where you can cover your arse and just say 'oh ignore all the killjoys, of course you can have a baby'etc and just leave it to the HCPs to tell her otherwise.

Which I'm sure they will, sorry.

Unexpected Mon 24-Feb-14 08:28:58

It does seem that if it was going to happen naturally it would have happened by now. So I presume she is looking at fertility treatment of some kind? Does she realise that she will have to pay for this, it won't be cheap and the chances of success are very small at her age? Can she afford it, perhaps multiple tries?

Perhaps she will listen to the professionals who will tell her all the things about her lifestyle, age factors etc which you and her friends have been trying to tell her but in a more dispassionate fashion?

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 08:30:23

She just got a puppy. She even gets ppl to babysit it in the day wink

I mean, her life is very much set up as someone who has a grown up kid that moved away. Does that make sense?

It's strange she's living such an unhealthy lifestyle considering she wants a baby?

Treaclepot Mon 24-Feb-14 08:32:36

Just be supportive as at the end of the day she is going to do what she wants.

It is unlikely she will conceive, but many do at that age, and if you are negative now it will never be forgotten.

God I wouldnt fancy it though.

ovenbun Mon 24-Feb-14 08:35:30

Honestly, my constructive advice would be to consider fostering (although smoking and the unstable relationship would need to be dealt with first). It sounds like there are lots of things she could perhaps change in her own life that might bring her more contentment before adding a child into the equation.
On the other hand she has always dreamt of a big family and there are so many children out there dreaming of a loving and safe home. she could make a huge difference.
The cost and risks involved at having a baby at 46 are high, I think we are sort of sold a dream that we can have babies at any age and that its a right....some families do happily add to their brood at this stage, but the unfortunate fact that the risks of prematurity, disability and risks to mums health are greatly increased cant be ignored. Considering how prepared she would be to care for a baby in these circumstances needs to be a serious consideration before she moves forward.
Hope that helps
oven xxx

CrumblyMumbly Mon 24-Feb-14 08:38:57

This makes me sad - you wouldn't pick apart an 18 year old's lifestyle and decide she shouldn't have kids let alone your 'lovely' mum as you put it! Why is it a 'fanciful idea'? People used to have kids until they no longer could. You should support her and stop looking for negatives. She could have IVF abroad (Tina Malone 50), see what the specialists say. Oh yes - I had my baby at 46 - couldn't be happier. Wish her all the best from me.

Unexpected Mon 24-Feb-14 08:44:19

Crumblymummy, actually I think many people would "pick apart" the lifestyle of a woman at any age who wants a baby but who has poor diet, is a heavy smoker, drinks daily, is in an unstable relationship and has just changed jobs to one where she will not receive any maternity benefits? Her age is only one factor here.

What Unexpected said.

SnowHOHOboarder Mon 24-Feb-14 08:47:13

She either will get pg or won't. I think it's more likely that she won't given what you've told us (and Tina Malone is the exception rather than the rule for older women having fertility treatment). Whether you are supportive or not has very little (if any) bearing on whether it happens, so you might as well support her as much as you can.

If it works she is likely to need your support (as any new mum would do!) and if it doesn't she will also need it.

I'm 46 btw. People did have babies forever years ago but it wasn't easy.

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 08:48:43

Crumbly, I disagree. I think under 20s get nitpicked more than anyone. You show me an age group that gets more support or interference from health visitors etc!

You're exactly the person I want to speak too! Can you tell me about your experiences please if not too much trouble.

I'm trying to support her, I really am an I really do. I just think she should be more practical about health risks for the baby and accept that her lifestyle needs to change.

She has money. I'm not sure how much but is aware she'd have to pay.

I'll have to look into it abroad re Tina Malone. grin

bragmatic Mon 24-Feb-14 08:49:09

It is as bad as they say. The idea is pretty fanciful.

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 08:51:22

I should also mention my support will be very limited. I live just over 100 miles away and work full time

Lagoonablue Mon 24-Feb-14 08:53:58

I had Dd1 at 43 and DS 2 at 47. No fertility treatment. It IS possible.

MotherOfInsomniacToddlers Mon 24-Feb-14 08:54:34

Crumbly,if you are saying people used to have babies until they no longer could so why shouldn't she, then I think your idea of her having ivf doesn't make any sense, if she's having ivf it's because she CANT conceive naturally like people used to?!

OutNumberedByBlue2 Mon 24-Feb-14 09:06:26

I would in your shoes offer her support but also have a very real conversation with her about the practicalities of having a baby. Is there a danger that she's looking back with rose tinted glasses to when you were a baby,remembering it as easier than it was perhaps & forgetting just how physically & mentally demanding babies & young children are? Given her current lifestyle, which is completely fine iyswim for someone without the responsibility of young children or someone planning on having them, has she fully thought through the long term implications?

cryinginthecar Mon 24-Feb-14 09:17:35

Is she aware that at 46 about 1 in 5 babies conceived will have a major congenital abnormality?

If I was her I'd be considering donor eggs.

Topseyt Mon 24-Feb-14 09:23:22

I have sympathy for your mum. Not because I have been in her shoes, as I haven't, but because it sounds as if she feels a chunk of her life is missing because of the children she didn't manage to have. Those are feelings she will never manage to simply dismiss.

Some women do get pregnant in their late 40s, although the chances of it, and of success are slimmer due to age and reducing fertility. That is just a harsh fact and your mum probably already knows it, so doesn't want it rubbed in anymore. Many people will know of a few cases though. Late pregnancy like this isn't impossible, just rather less likely.

As someone upthread has already said, I think all you can do is offer your mum all the support you can for whatever the outcome. Don't try to dissuade her, and don't dwell on either positives or negatives. Just ensure she knows you will always be there in moral support (not always close by) anyway.

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 09:24:12

She has previously asked me to donate. I said no way. A sister that's technically my daughter and younger than my own. Jeremy Kyle would be calling... wink

MothratheMighty Mon 24-Feb-14 09:24:39

'the lifestyle of a woman at any age who wants a baby but who has poor diet, is a heavy smoker, drinks daily, is in an unstable relationship and has just changed jobs to one where she will not receive any maternity benefits? Her age is only one factor here.'

Yes. This is a potential baby, not a hamster that is being discussed.
OP, would you be happy leaving your mother in sole charge of your child for a year? With the smoking and the drinking?

Meerkatwhiskers Mon 24-Feb-14 09:28:24

I know exactly where you are coming from. I'm an only child and my mum met my step dad when I was 18 (she also had me when she was 20). She then tried for a baby with him and was refused NHS fertility treatment. She was (and still is overweight) and didn't try to change that. I was against the idea, not for the fact that I am an only child but because of the circumstances. In hindsight, I'm now 36, my stepdad has had a stroke, heart attack, aneurysm in his aorta that has been scented, has chronic kidney failure and heart failure at the grand age of 58. He is currently in hospital having a stent in his artery (he needs a bypass but his heart is too weak to risk an anaesthetic) and needs to get a pacemaker fitter to control his irregular heartbeat.

I am incredibly relieved I only have my mum to support through these last 10 years as they've been hard. If there had been kids involved it would have been a nightmare. He changed a lot when he had his stroke and wouldn't be a good father now as he would have been beforehand. Harsh to say but true (and he is a good stepfather to me).

It's a rare situation I know but I didn't think it was a good idea at the time for these reasons (it was known he had heart problems before).

Btw I also have fertility issues and I know what it's like. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. But if I had to be realistic (and my own health is actually not that great now so I may have to make that choice myself) then I would choose to have to not be selfish.

Topseyt Mon 24-Feb-14 09:30:51

I can absolutely understand why you declined to donate eggs. I wouldn't either. A baby produced that way would be your biologcal son or daughter, and their grandma would be their mum. Few people could cope with that.

If she wants to go the donor egg route it is probably much better done anonymously, via fertility clinics or whatever.

Stockhausen Mon 24-Feb-14 09:30:58

Can she not concentrate on her daughter & grandchild/ren?

Seems a very selfish idea, never mind fanciful!

Meerkatwhiskers Mon 24-Feb-14 09:31:29

Btw I never ever said any of this to my mum. Even now. It's not up to me to say that. I can have my opinion but it's not up to me to say that to her.

I just did the nod and agree thing whenever she said anything about it to me. Best way to be impartial lol. Our extended family were of the same persuasion to me so I had a sounding board though thank god. It was harder as I was living with them at the time.

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 09:32:28

Topseyt, that's exactly how she feels. I understand that totally and know I would be the same.

I didn't realise congenital abnormalities were that high at that age shock

I have only once or twice left DD with DM at her house and it was only for ten mins. I have left them together at my house when DD had pox and I had to work as the dangers were gone. Take from that what you will

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 09:34:17

She is excellent with DD now she's over two. She was PFB but was v v v nervous until she was 1-2 hmm

BoffinMum Mon 24-Feb-14 09:35:53

Well, if you are able to conceive naturally, then nature thinks you are able to bear a child. If not, you need to ask yourself a few questions about what is going on.

I am also 46 and had my last baby at 41. I was fit and well and got pregnant within a month of deciding to have another one, but I got a ghastly complication and lost the ability to walk for a while. The birth and postnatal period were fine apart from that, however. In fact the lack of sleep was easier than it had been with my first one at 19 as I needed less sleep overall.

I suppose in planning terms I would recommend she works out how to organise domestic help, and a lot of it, in case things work out more difficult than she is expecting. Frankly if someone can afford a decent nanny this can make all the difference. A comfortable home also makes a difference too.

In terms of health, I think an immediate yoga/vitamin/diet improvement campaign would show intent and improve things all around. Statistically most babies born to women of 45+ are healthy (although it's more risky than when you are younger, obviously).

Ultimately she is going to have to throw money and time at the project if she wants it to work out well, I think.

fuzzpig Mon 24-Feb-14 09:36:42

I had no idea that the risk of congenital abnormality was so much higher.

I would've thought she is fairly unlikely to have successful IVF though, considering the miscarriages etc sad

BrandNewIggi Mon 24-Feb-14 09:37:28

Has she had any counselling for the miscarriages, which might help her reflect more as well on what she wants for the future? It is very hard to accept ending your fertility history, so to speak, with a loss.

BrandNewIggi Mon 24-Feb-14 09:39:25

The miscarriages can be linked to the increased risk of abnormality, iyswim. Doesn't necessarily mean that the next egg wouldn't be able to produce a baby (looks at ds2).

MothratheMighty Mon 24-Feb-14 09:41:33

That's not what I meant Evee, I was wondering if you'd be happy with your mother taking over the exclusive care of your DD for an extended period of time.
Do you think that she'd keep up with the demands of an active child, would you be concerned about the effects on your DD of the smoking and drinking and poor diet?
How would your mother cope with it all? Fantastically, or not?

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 09:41:50

Stockhausen, we live quite far away and rarely venture up there. I've also not exactly been forthcoming with letting her handle DD lots when teeny. She wanted to be very ott and fussy but I always backed away due to her having a very different parenting style to me. Basically, I've been a bit of a bitch.

Thank you meerkat. You raise a good point. My grandad/her dad had a huge heart attack and triple bypass at 50 shock died at 65.

Chunderella Mon 24-Feb-14 09:45:46

Constructive advice would be to make sure she's as healthy as she possibly can be! So no smoking, cut down the drink, sort out her diet. Pregnancy takes such a toll on the body even when the mother is young and healthy. At 46, there's a pretty good chance that if she does want to conceive, it will have to be via IVF. That's also very hard on the body. She may well need several attempts. Someone mentioned Tina Malone upthread, she also went through a miscarriage and iirc some failed cycles. Your mum would have to be ready for this and what it will entail. I would never want to do this at her age unless I felt very healthy, energetic and resilient.

Topseyt Mon 24-Feb-14 09:45:56

I am not keen on the comments stating that the op's mum is being selfish.

I am lucky, as I managed to have all three of my children pretty much when I wanted them. I am 47 now and my youngest is 11.

At my age, I can now safely say I absolutely do NOT want any more children, and am happy with the lovely ones I have. HOWEVER, perhaps I would be thinking very differently if I had not been able to conceive them?? I might even be considering my options, just as the op's mum is. Luckily for me, I never had to find out, even though I do have a medical condition which could have caused it.

I don't think it is selfishness. It is a natural maternal instinct which cannot, so far, be fulfilled.

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 09:46:07

I know what you meant Mothra, that's my point. I don't trust a day let alone a year!!! Or didn't when she was newborn. However, she raised me very well.

princessalbert Mon 24-Feb-14 09:47:31

Oh no. I am 46 - with a 16yo. I couldn't imagine wanting to go through all those baby/toddler/small child years again.

I loved being pregnant - that was the easy part - it was the subsequent 15 years that were hard.

I would just go with it OP. Your DM is really quite unlikely to get anywhere with this - but if you show your disapproval it'll be remembered. More so, than your support.

Pigsmummy Mon 24-Feb-14 10:20:31

I have a friend who fell pregnant by accident at 47. Healthy happy baby. She gave up smoking and wine when she realised.

mummymeister Mon 24-Feb-14 10:23:10

The menopause is a horrible thing. it messes with your mind. I had my last baby in my early 40's then late 40's desparately wanted another because essentially my hormones were all over the place. this is what is happening to your mum. its what all of us go through to a certain extent

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 10:28:23

With all due respect mummymeister, she's been talking about this for at least 7 years in great detail. All my life to some degree. Menopauses don't last that long wink

bodybooboo Mon 24-Feb-14 10:29:15

of course she could get pregnant people.

my grandmother was one of 14 and her mother had her last 2 at 46 and 48.. it was commen then as women hadn't got the choice.

I think you should support her and see what happens as it's her life, her choices.

not everyone plans their babies by starting a healthy eating/cut down alcohol/fags plan. maybe on mumsnet but not in RL.

MerryMarigold Mon 24-Feb-14 10:32:58

I think you need to be a little wary of support. Just because, if she does have a baby with abnormalities, it will (quite soon) be falling to you to care for this sibling. I know I would not want to be put in that position with a child of my own. I would feel torn between realising my mum's responsibility for the decision and the fact this person is my sibling.

I think your Mum needs to have plans now for a child with abnormalities. If she can think this through, has plans in place which don't include you as a carer, and still wants a child, then fair enough. If she is going into it, blindly hoping for a healthy baby and ignoring the possibilities that it won't be, then I would not be very supportive.

bodybooboo Mon 24-Feb-14 10:33:45

Eveesmummy with all due respect the menopause can indeed last 7 years grin you just wait.

RiverTam Mon 24-Feb-14 10:34:15

well, I had DD at 38 and I'm not the fittest (though I'm nowhere near as unfit as your DM sounds) and I have found it exhausting, and I do wish I was younger, fitter, just generally having more energy to be around a small child.

So, TBh, I probably wouldn't be that supportive of this plan.

How are her finances - I also think taking that knock to your salary later in life when you've progressed further is harder that at a younger age where the potential drop in salary isn't quite such a big hit.

MerryMarigold Mon 24-Feb-14 10:34:26

I don't mean I wouldn't want to care for a child (or adult) with abnormalities if they were MY child, but that I would not want to take care of a sibling alongside a child of my own, and possibly future children who need my care and attention.

Timetoask Mon 24-Feb-14 10:34:46

Is she in a stable relationship?
It's not just about her needs, it's about the baby's first and foremost.
Would I have liked my mum to be a nearly 60 year old when I was 10? Defenitely not.
The stories about grandmothers having babies in their late 40s are not relevant, times have changed, we live different kinds of lives. Please tell her not to be selfish.

noddyholder Mon 24-Feb-14 10:39:36

I have a neighbour in her late 40s who has a 3 yrold and when i saw her at xmas she announced she is pregnant again at 49 and its twins. No ivf. I am 48 and worried grin

Chunderella Mon 24-Feb-14 10:39:50

It was more common in the days when women in their mid 40s had typically had several pregnancies already. It is less so now, as we have fewer children, although as OPs mum has already had one child it may be easier for her than for some. You're still talking a pretty good chance she'll need IVF, though. As for most people not embarking on health improvement plans before ttc, yes that's true. Something like half of conceptions are unplanned, aren't they? My DDs was. However, most women are not 46 and leading an unhealthy lifestyle. If the odds are already unfavourable, it makes sense to improve the few things that are in your control. Especially when you're about to embark on a process that takes so much energy.

mouldyironingboard Mon 24-Feb-14 10:42:36

Is your mother's partner a similar age? If the relationship doesn't last, would he help out with childcare and financial support? How reliable is he?

Has your mother thought about the reality of being in her sixties and coping with a teenager? Or worse still, becoming seriously ill and not being able to look after her child?

Tina Malone has a much younger partner and also made huge efforts to become healthy before going ahead with IVF.

I think you need to ask her a lot of difficult questions.

ClockWatchingLady Mon 24-Feb-14 10:48:16

OP, this sounds really difficult for you both.

Would it be possible to be generally understanding and emotionally supportive in a way that's not either encouraging or discouraging? Like previous posters have said, if you have obvious strong opinions, or make obvious judgments about what's best, this could be damaging to your relationship with your DM later on. And giving opinions might not affect what your mum does anyway.

The stats are against her, so the most likely outcome seems to be that you will be helping her to come to terms with not having another baby.
This might be easier if you have been understanding of her wishes, and generally as kind as you can be, throughout. Which I'm sure you are doing anyway! All the best to you both.

bodybooboo Mon 24-Feb-14 10:50:01

timetoask don't get the selfish bit at all. are you perfect? I dam sure am not.

I had my first 2 in my twenties and my last 2 late 30s.

I was a significantly less selfish, more mature, had more energy, sense, patience and cash with the last 2.

very judgy thread here.

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 10:50:29

Partners a knob. Full stop. Think she probably plans for most of this to be done alone.

He is one year older and also the guy who knocked her up years ago when he was seeing another woman who he still lives with though is apparently looking into purchasing his own house (was only staying with OW because she had cancer an it was unfair to leave her at such a time but obv ok to cheat) she left him for years and now he's back saying OW is over and he loves her so much etc etc. he was unsympathetic with miscarriages and when the first one started and they were in public he told her to stop acting like a smack head and get over her period pain shock I'm not a fan!

She had a check at 42 and was told she had lovely eggs.

She also had a new hip about a yr ago (maybe two but I don't think so) apparently the nurse asked her about her fertility and said something about hip and consequences on pregnancy and used the phrase 'of course you're still of childbearing age'

bodybooboo Mon 24-Feb-14 10:55:37

she sounds like she picks them doesn't she.

all you can do is be supportive and caring. it's really her decision anyway and probably the fertility team will be able to give her a clear unbiased view of her chances.

it's a reminder to all of us though really isn't it. don't leave having that wanted baby too late.

MerryMarigold Mon 24-Feb-14 10:57:04

Evees, I really think you need to address the abnormalities with her, whilst being supportive of her decision to want more children (having 2 miscarriages implies there were abnormalities which the body rejected). If she is ignoring the statistics then I would withdraw support.

SunnyL Mon 24-Feb-14 11:03:35

Tricky. My SIL had a baby at 49 through IVF and egg donor abroad. They had 4 failed cycles which was exhausting for them both - both physically and emotionally. Travelling to Barcelona to get the treatment then my DBro had to work during each trip while she lay in bed willing for it to work. I think it cost them in the region of 100k for the treatment.

Luckily they did have a lovely wee boy. Sadly when he was 6 months old SIL developed cancer again (she'd had it 10 years before). trying to look after a wee baby while doing chemo and radiotherapy was a killer. She's kicked the cancer again but has been told there is a 1 in 5 chance she won't live more than 10 years. So my brother is doing everything he can to prepare in case one day he will be on his own (he is much younger). This includes saving lots and keeping himself as healthy as he can.

Its given thrm such a fright to be reminded of her mortality.

MrsDeVere Mon 24-Feb-14 11:05:15

1-5 really?

I have never heard that statistic and I had two children in my 40s.

I am nearly 47 and could totally cope with another baby. I didn't find it harder in my 40s than I did in my twenties. I found it much easier.

My first thought was not 'what if I have a mc' or 'what if the baby has a disability'.

Didn't enter into my thinking when I was ttc.

OP I think you should let her get on with it. Perhaps she needs to go through this process so she can know she tried all available avenues? Nothing you say or do is going to change her fertility is it?

She will get the facts from the HCP and then its up to her to make up her mind if she wants to pursue it.
They will ALL tell he she has to stop smoking to increase her chances.

Let her be to get on with this. She is an adult.

MrsDeVere Mon 24-Feb-14 11:07:56

I think you need to ask her a lot of difficult questions

NO she doesn't need to ask her.

This is an adult woman exploring her chances of getting pregnant. She doesn't need her daughter or anyone else lecturing her ffs.

noddyholder Mon 24-Feb-14 11:16:55

I agree with mrsdevere let her get on with it and be supportive of the eventual outcome which could be one of many scenarios all of which will need support

jacks365 Mon 24-Feb-14 11:22:08

merry even if that 1 in 5 statistic is correct it means that the chances are that the baby will be healthy. As another older mother who conceived naturally I would recommend just supporting your mum, it won't impact on your day to day life so provide the emotional support your mum needs while not agreeing to any more than that.

MerryMarigold Mon 24-Feb-14 11:22:53

But MrsDevere. There will be repercussions for the OP. Unless the OP is able to say, "You made your bed, now you can lie it."

MerryMarigold Mon 24-Feb-14 11:26:00

She doesn't need her daughter or anyone else lecturing her ffs.

It really sounds like she does, actually. Lifestyle, relationships. This is not someone who engages well with reality.

Thetallesttower Mon 24-Feb-14 11:26:24

I am not sure that stat is correct- the chances of having a baby with Downs syndrome are given at about 1 in 40 aged 50 on wiki- even if you add other risks in there (including paternal age) I don't think it would come out that high.

Those suggesting donor eggs/IVF- those things also come with an increased risk of abnormalities. You wouldn't want to use those to avoid abnormalities per se (as may draw short straw there as well) but to increase likelihood of pregnancy.

Thing is, parents have their own lives, all you can do is stand back and watch just as they have to when you do things they think a little unwise!

badtime Mon 24-Feb-14 11:29:17

My grandmother had her last child at 45 (and stopped because she was widowed - she may have had more otherwise). However, she was ridiculously fertile (11 children in all) and very healthy.

mouldyironingboard Mon 24-Feb-14 11:30:10

I think it is the op's business to know what would happen to her much younger sibling if her mother was unable to cope due to age or illness. There are no other siblings to help out.

MrsDeVere Mon 24-Feb-14 11:30:16

merry her daughter is an adult with her own life. It is not up to her or anyone else to dictate another woman on what they chose to do with their own body.

thetall I don't think that stat is correct either and I would like to see the source.

I also object to people using 'but the child might be abnormal' as a reason why older women shouldn't get pregnant.

MrsDeVere Mon 24-Feb-14 11:31:49

So it is ok for your mothers to interfere in your child bearing in case any of you become terminally ill?

You would be fine with that would you?

The woman is 47 not 87.

MerryMarigold Mon 24-Feb-14 11:32:16

I'm only advising as we had a similar situation in dh's family where his parents wanted to do something which had high risk outcomes. Most of the family were against it, but I advised dh to be fully supportive without pointing out all the cons of it once again as they had already heard it. They were his parents, they were going to do it anyway, he needed to stand by them. He was supportive (the only one). Now things have gone belly up, it befalls dh to still be supportive. I think he would have been supportive anyway, because he is a good, kind man, but I also wish he had been a bit more practical and realistic with them at the time, rather than just going along with it in order to support them.

MerryMarigold Mon 24-Feb-14 11:33:37

(And sadly, in dh's family's case, one of the people suffering the outcome is a child).

mummymeister Mon 24-Feb-14 11:35:41

In a perfect world this is of course the mothers decision and not the OP. however as others have pointed out experience shows that sometimes life does not go as planned. the new baby might have problems, the mum might have health issues. the OP isn't just going to say "you made your bed lie in it " is she. she is going to have to help out. being an older single mum is going to be bloody tough for lots of different reasons and just pointing these out at the earliest stage is a good idea. the OP has to be very clear with her mum how much support she is willing to give.

Grennie Mon 24-Feb-14 11:35:54

Obviously it is up to her. But I do think having a mother in her early 60's, when a child is a young teenager, really isn't fair.

MerryMarigold Mon 24-Feb-14 11:36:14

Who said anything about dictating? It's about sitting down and talking through realities.

Latara Mon 24-Feb-14 11:36:50

Didn't Cherie Blair have her last baby naturally at 46?

I think that she should definitely give up smoking, alcohol and improve her diet; but other than that she should just go for it.

How many younger woman wait for 'the right time' and the 'right relationship' really? How many women have children in a good relationship only for that relationship to break down later on anyway.

If we all waited (like I stupidly have waited and now I'm 37 and childless) for the 'right time' then we would never have children.

My mother had 'unsuitable boyfriends' and I let her get on with it. She even had a pregnancy scare at 52 (still pre-menopause lucky her) and I didn't judge.

Thetallesttower Mon 24-Feb-14 11:40:55

MrsdeVere- it was the result of a brief google of 'risk of congenital abnormality and age' on wiki, not an authoritative source (although they do include the reference at the bottom). It's not an area I know much about but the other figure looked higher than I've seen.

Grennie Mon 24-Feb-14 11:41:12

Cherie Blair's last child was an accident. Abortions rise in this age group because it is easy to think your menopause is over, then realise it is not.

mouldyironingboard Mon 24-Feb-14 11:41:22

Cherie Blair has a supportive husband and lots of paid help. This situation is very different.

MerryInthechelseahotel Mon 24-Feb-14 11:42:03

Maybe op's mum is thinking and planning about what she would do if she got ill etc from what I read she is 46 and op hasn't mentioned she has Alzheimer's says a 54yr old mother of a 5yr old

Thetallesttower Mon 24-Feb-14 11:43:25

And just to be clear - I wouldn't ever say to an older mother anything about abnormalities being a reason not to have a child. I am replying to those who were arguing for using donor eggs as her own are too old/risk of abnormality. If this is a big concern for someone, and it certainly was for a friend of mine who had her baby at 45 and paid extra for 3D scans and other forms of testing privately, then taking the donor egg/IVF route is still going to be a cause for concern on that basis.

MrsDeVere Mon 24-Feb-14 11:44:39

I hope everybody has masses of life insurance, their wills in order and guardians sorted out for their kids.

Even 25 year olds are not immune to death and debilitating illness.

So basically do no reproduce unless you have cleared it with your relatives.

You silly women.

MerryInthechelseahotel Mon 24-Feb-14 11:45:11

There would be a higher chance of her getting pregnant with IVF though

MrsDeVere Mon 24-Feb-14 11:45:41

<looks around for paid help>
<finds none>
<goes to pick up DC5 from nursery myself>

MerryMarigold Mon 24-Feb-14 11:48:43

If I was going to do anything which had quite a high possibility of impacting in a big way on my family, then yes, I would speak to them.

And yes, it is silly to assume it's the same as a 30 year old in a stable partnership, having a child. It isn't.

Thetallesttower Mon 24-Feb-14 11:48:45

Yes Merry that's what I was trying to say!

I am not sure what the OP wants here, my parents have taken lots of life decisions I don't think are particularly sensible and some of which they regret, and others which have been brilliant, but it's like having children, once they get over a certain age, you have to just stand back and watch to some extent (or at least not constantly comment on them). There could be lots of outcomes here, in the main I can't see anything to put her off, biology, luck and/or persistence if going the IVF route (and money) will determine the rest.

cryinginthecar Mon 24-Feb-14 11:49:45

"I am not sure that stat is correct- the chances of having a baby with Downs syndrome are given at about 1 in 40 aged 50 on wiki-"

No you are right - 1 in 5 is overly pessimistic.

For ALL trisomies (including Downs) at 47 it's 1 in 14.

However, there are other risks which go up with maternal age, such as the incidence of autistic spectrum disorder which are difficult to factor into the mix.

Thetallesttower Mon 24-Feb-14 11:49:57

Sorry- Merry I was trying to say that the IVF would increase the likelihood.

I disagree that you should ask your adult children how to live your life, although talking different scenarios through is always a good idea so at least people are expecting it.

cryinginthecar Mon 24-Feb-14 11:51:27

Would add, if I was the OP I would follow the advice here to leave it to her mum, and to the health professionals who are caring for her if she's having fertility treatment.

I wouldn't want to give an opinion of it was a relative of mine, unless it'd been specifically asked for.

That said - I think having a baby at 46/47 is only advisable if your relationship is rock solid, and you are in optimal health. But hey ho, who asked me?

LittleMissDisorganized Mon 24-Feb-14 11:54:10

Well, the risk of Down syndrome is 1 in 10-15 at 45 with natural eggs. It rises each year. And all the various other congenital abnormalities all increase with age. So whilst 1 in 5 maybe a little high, it's certainly higher than 1 in 10. Of course, to some people this is not a problem.
The miscarriage risk rises from the standard 1 in 3-4 for most pregnancies to at least 1 in 2.
And IF she had IVF with her own eggs, IF they were in good enough shape to do so (no UK clinic would do this I don't think) then the chances of success would be significantly less than 1%.

Of course some people do have babies in their mid forties, they are the other side of these statistics in which the vast majority of people are unable to, or have major problems.

Her best chance would be overseas IVF (Spain/Italy, etc) ASAP, must stop smoking and drinking, would definitely need donor eggs of a 20-25 year old and donor sperm and even then her rate of success for 3 cycles would be less than 1 in 5 for a "take home baby". We'd be talking 5 figures probably financially in total

So, the professionals would tell her this eventually.

All you can do is listen as much as you are able. It's ok to find this very hard to hear from your mum and not be able to listen all the time. And try not to let her live through her GC. These are her issues not yours, and whilst supportive, you don't have to take them on.

whatever5 Mon 24-Feb-14 11:55:46

I think that the only constructive advice would be that she needs to stop smoking and drinking alcohol if she wants to get pregnant. She doesn't sound healthy for her age and I doubt that she will get pregnant and carry a baby to term but there is no pointing telling her (leave that to the health professionals).

bragmatic Mon 24-Feb-14 12:07:56

Well, while we're all talking about people who've had babies in their late 40's, I know of two cases.

One mother died in childbirth giving birth to premature twins, leaving her 60yo husband a widower and new father. The other gave birth to a premature twins, one of whom will have lifelong health problems. She's also a single mother.

So yeah, tell her to knock herself out.

Honestly, not considering the downsides (which you are statistically more likely to encounter) is living in la la land.

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 12:13:29

Sorry, I've had to hide in a cupboard at work to reply to you guys haha!

I think some people misunderstand. I'm not trying to dictate anything to her. She WILL go ahead with this regardless of my support. She's my mum who had been with me through everything and I'll be there for her whatever.

I know my feelings on this and we have discussed it but my idea for this thread was to see how other people, in particular people who have lived through this experience. grin

ClockWatchingLady Mon 24-Feb-14 12:15:17

MrsDeVere you are talking so much sense.

Can we really judge this?

We are all going to die, and don't know when.
None of us knows what problems our children will have or otherwise.
What is acceptable risk to one person is not acceptable risk to another.
We all fuck things up in our own ways, and just have to deal with it.

OP, I wish your mother, and you, every happiness whatever choices she makes and whatever happens.

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 12:20:52

Ps I think even the fertility check for them both is private as she talked about paying extra for him to be checked.

clockwatching77 Mon 24-Feb-14 12:25:28

Well I had my dd3 at 44. Her screening tests were better than my scores at 36 so it's not all doom and gloom. Dd was unplanned and dh has minor fertility issues so anything is possible.
My pregnancy was akso easy despite being so much older.
Good luck to her.

HadABadDay2014 Mon 24-Feb-14 12:27:02

The age isn't a problem IMO, but her lifestyle is.

Drinking every night, smoking heavy and a poor diet with little excerise is not the best way to start a pregnancy.

Did she manage to change her lifestyle when she was pregnant which sadly ended up in miscarriage.

mouldyironingboard Mon 24-Feb-14 12:28:51

Eveesmummy, i wish your Mum lots of luck with this and hope she will be ok.

eurochick Mon 24-Feb-14 12:30:14

I wouldn't judge her for wanting to try at that age, but I would be a bit judgey about the lifestyle stuff you mention. Her age is already against her, so why impose other obstacles that could be removed, like the smoking?

Regardless of what the fertility check says, she may struggle. One third of infertility cases are unexplained, i.e. everything looks fine on paper, but it just doesn't happen. We are in this category, so on paper I should I have been pregnant within the "normal" time of one year. Actually it took me 3 years and 4 rounds of IVF to get pg.

I also must correct this: "
Those suggesting donor eggs/IVF- those things also come with an increased risk of abnormalities. You wouldn't want to use those to avoid abnormalities per se (as may draw short straw there as well) but to increase likelihood of pregnancy."
IVF carries a small risk of additional abnormalities where ICSI is used as part of the IVF process (typically when there are sperm issues) as there is no natural selection of the sperm, just the scientists using their skills, which are good but not quite as good as what millions of years of evolution have given us as a selection system. Donor eggs usually reduces the risk of abnormalities, particularly for older women, as the donors are usually quite young and egg problems increase with age.

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 12:34:24

Hadabadday, both MCs were unplanned PGS and I know the first one she only learned she was PG when she MC. I'm 99 per cent sure it was the same with MC2. One was approx ten weeks. Two was earlier.

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 12:35:01

So no, she didn't change her lifestyle. Sorry, I missed most important part ha!

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 13:01:50

I just spoke to her. She's actually going today because she rang them to confirm her appt and they had assumed she wasn't using her own eggs due to age. It's standard procedure to use donors after 45.

I asked her if she understood the added risks and the reasons why they had these procedures. She said yes but she wants a chance to have her own child. I get that.

I asked her about donors. At which point She started to ask me to donate. I cut across and I repeated that it wasn't fair on my DD to have a sister that's an auntie and I would have to tell her. I don't like family secrets.

I feel terrible and that I should do this. I don't know how much hassle it would be for me and I feel it would mean the world to her. But I still won't do it.

She sounded truly and deeply sad at the idea the child would not be a blood relative. I think she will stop at nothing...

She hasn't had a period since November she just told me. She puts it down to stress. She is very stressed hmm

Clutterbugsmum Mon 24-Feb-14 13:07:59

I agree with you about your eggs. I think you mum has a cheek even suggesting that she/they use you egg. If she goes down that route then the doner needs to be someone outside your family.

Clutterbugsmum Mon 24-Feb-14 13:08:41

use your eggs even.

Chunderella Mon 24-Feb-14 13:15:22

I did wonder if this was going to crop up at some point down the line. You really can't go into something as invasive and involving as egg donation without being completely happy with it and wanting to do it. You just can't. She has no business expecting you to.

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 13:17:54

We could pay for some of the ivf from appearing in take a break magazine and the like! wink

She's been told by her friend that even after menopause you can get pg upto three years after? I can't imagine that??? My bullshit-o-meter is through the roof!

MothratheMighty Mon 24-Feb-14 13:18:21

Does she understand that her lifestyle choices may get in the way of her conceiving and carrying to term, and that they may already have done so?
That if she is desperate to give birth to a living, healthy child, there are steps she can take to increase her chances?
If it were me, I'd make encouraging, non-specific noises and keep my eggs to myself. And be prepared not to offer a lot of money as a 'loan'

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 13:19:37

Chunderella, I'm guessing she has no idea what's involved. I mean, I don't. I assume it's a round of hormones and they take it out. Much the same as if I was going through ivf myself. I think she thinks I'll pull it out and hand it over wink

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 13:21:01

Mothra, she's in Mensa but what she actually understands and what goes in... I don't know shock

MothratheMighty Mon 24-Feb-14 13:22:48

Yes, I have several intellectually awesome people in my house, but common sense and RL practicalities? Not so much.

eurochick Mon 24-Feb-14 13:27:30

This is sounding like a bit of an emotional car crash, I have to say.

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 13:28:04

Exactly! I, myself, have neithergrin

I'm very nervous about what they're saying to her in the meeting. She doesn't take news she doesn't want to hear well. I hope they have good bedside manner. I imagine I'll get a phone call later and be her shoulder.

I should add I'm generally the parent in our relationship. wink A little like Ab Fab

Chunderella Mon 24-Feb-14 13:28:14

You have to take hormones and be sedated, occasionally even a general. From what I've read it's not the worst thing in the world or anything, but it's still an interference with the body and anything relating to hormones or anaesthesia isn't risk free. Egg donation is a wonderful thing, but I should imagine it would be pretty awful if you were feeling pressured into it. Actually they probably have procedures to ensure donors are doing it of their own free will.

JennySense Mon 24-Feb-14 13:31:12

Be there for her but I would disengage a bit if you can. Being asked to donate several times sounds like it would be best if you didn't get too involved.
At 46, even with donor eggs, it's a long shot particularly if you're not in perfect health.
I had fertility treatment and understand how painful a journey it can be. Send her in the direction of the website www.fertilityfriends.co.uk - lots of sensible advice there and a very active forum she can get help from.
You come across as a very caring daughter, but don't let this issue affect your relationship with her.

eurochick Mon 24-Feb-14 13:35:08

There is counselling both for donors and recipients.

The donor would have to take all the IVF hormonal drugs, which are not without side-effects and complications. And then go through egg collection (sedation or GA and then a needle inserted through the vagina to collect the eggs), which again is not without complications. I've been through it 4 times for myself and am full of admiration for anyone who could do it for non-selfish reasons. I had relatively straightforward cycles but even then I reacted badly to the sedation drugs and on my third cycle, they nicked a blood vessel during the collection and I had a big bleed. I could feel the blood spilling out of me. It is not something to be undertaken lightly.

Caitlin17 Mon 24-Feb-14 13:35:34

I'd question the commitment of any one trying to conceive who wasn't prepared to cut out smoking and cut back severely on drinking.

juneau Mon 24-Feb-14 13:43:46

If she's going to a reputable fertility clinic I'm guessing they'll be fairly straight with her about her chances, which at 46 and as a heavy smoker have got to be vanishingly small.

You've clearly got a sound head on your shoulders OP. I would just be there for her, gently urge her to take good advice seriously, don't encourage her to waste her money if she's given very poor odds, etc. I'm a bit baffled that she's left it so late to try for a second DC if she's always wanted a big family, but it is what it is and she can't turn the clock back. I would've thought her best chance is 1) kick all her bad habits immediately and 2) egg donation, but she doesn't seem willing to try either of those options, so I suspect you will remain an only DC.

awaywiththepixies Mon 24-Feb-14 13:57:11

I had two children in my early forties. They were born within 20 months of each other. They were both fine. I am fine. It is tiring but It also has benefits too.

My understanding of the risk of abnormalities is certainly not 1 in 7. I would like to see the authority for those figures.

Support your Mum and suggest some lifestyle changes.

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 14:40:07

June, she was with my dad who didn't want any more until I was 11-12 and he always said after this etc. then when they split up she concentrated on raising me and didn't have another bf til I was 18 at UNi. She's had three since, all as stupid as the rest

She has many excuses for why she didn't meet someone during those yrs and start again. Something was holding her back but I'm not sure what. She recently took voluntary redundancy to start her own business. I think this is where the money is coming from. hmm

MothratheMighty Mon 24-Feb-14 14:51:21

Perhaps she sees you as the one thing in her life she's done well and wants it again. You do seem a lovely daughter.

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 15:06:04

Aaawww, thanks Mothra! I don't think so though. She had a veeerrrryyyy hard time when pregnant and when I was first born from a very judgemental and overbearing mother. The way she got pregnant and the fact she is Unmarried shock put the family under so much stress according to said judgemental and overbearing grandma she wants to do it all right this time. Clearly it'll be just as 'wrong' as the last time but she feels she missed out on an ideal family setting etc etc. she really was broken by the way I came about and peoples response to it. I think having me fixed it a little but she has been through so much. I'd love her to have this little bit of happiness confused

22honey Mon 24-Feb-14 15:12:09

My mother is 45 and went through a stage similar even though she had her tubes tied in her early 30s. She is due to be a grandmother for the first time soon and these days says shes happy she didn't have any other children. She was never 100% on the idea anyway and it was unlikely to happy given both her age and the tubes being tied. I have to admit how odd I would find having a new baby sister or brother at my age when I've started having them myself. DM also enjoys having her own life and working.

I wouldnt say your DM is being unreasonable per say as many women can get the urge for babies at the end of their reproductive days. Just maybe not thinking clearly about the realities of it, nor the reality that fertility has usually gone by that age for most women. I imagine she could conceive using donor eggs though. Her lifestyle isn't the healthiest which for someone of that age wanting to become a mother should be the top priority, my DM has never smoked or drank but still thought at 44 she was too old to be having anymore babies.

I never judge women for their reason for having babies but the reason I have started in my early 20s and hope to be finished by early 30s at the most is because the risks at this age are minimal, my child rearing will be done by the time I'm 40 leaving me to pursue a career and all else. My DM did it this way and it worked out great for her. She gave up on the idea of more babies and is now happily looking forward to being a grandma for the first time and enjoying her job and other life. Personally thats what I want for me at her age.

CeliaLytton Mon 24-Feb-14 15:18:50

In your situation, I think I would assume that she is aware of the risks of pregnancy, especially after 2 mcs, but after that there is nothing you can do but be supportive. After all, she is an adult and free to make her own decisions.

I would, however, raise the issue of guardianship. We did think about who would raise our children if anything were to happen to us and luckily we have lots of willing relatives as we are a large family. Many of my friends have their parents down as guardians for their children and I hope I will be able to offer that option to my own children. I would be aware in your circs that you could potentially raise your DC to teenagers/adulthood, then be raising a sibling and then be named as a guardian for your own dc's children. That is the only thing that directly affects you and is something you should have a say in.

We cannot have children based on the fact that we are going to live until a ripe old age, but I think it is not unreasonable of the OP to be wary of the fact that she is more likely, though still highly unlikely, to be expected to care for this child should the worst happen.

OP, chances are, given her history, that this won't be successful, at which point your mum will need support. But if it does result in a DC, you will have to know what your expected role is in the raising of the child, if any. You may find that your mum has thought through the possibility of having a child with a disability, it is something many of us consider regardless of age, and she may have discussed guardianship with other family members or friends.

The most positive outcome would be that your mum has a healthy DC and lives until a ripe old age. I hope that things work out for you.

OneStepForwardTwoBack Mon 24-Feb-14 15:21:54

Sometimes you just have to accept you're done. I have two, youngest has ASD and this fact alone stopped me in my tracks from having more kids. I am 43 and oh would have been happy to go ahead for one more but my mind is made up. Plus I've gotten selfish now and although my little man has SN he does sleep through the night!!

Nancy66 Mon 24-Feb-14 15:22:26

she isn't going to conceive at 46 with her own eggs and most reputable clinics wouldn't even allow her to try.

If she wants a baby she'll have to have donor eggs

noddyholder Mon 24-Feb-14 15:32:40

Can anyone with knowledge of fertiltiy answer a q for me please? If you are born with all the eggs you will have but for some reason stop being fertile in the middle of your life and then resume fertility does that mean you are potentially fertile for longer.I was ill and had no periods for 8 years and someone told me that when they resumed (I was 37 ) my fertility age would be my age less 8 yrs. I am worried now as I am 48 don't want more children but periods regular as clock work

22honey Mon 24-Feb-14 15:43:57

noddyholder apparently (and I dont know this for fact but did read an article the other day), that a woman loses eggs even if she isn't ovulating. Someone can correct me if I am wrong! I looked this up myself as had a period of over a year non ovulation and very light, irregular periods after coming off dianette.

My great aunt is in her early 50s and still has regular periods, I am pretty certain she can't have anymore babies though but they do recommend contraception until the menopause if you are really worried about becoming pregnant again.

Nancy66 Mon 24-Feb-14 15:47:39

Egg quality is key too. Even if a woman conceived at 46 she is more likely to miscarry than not as the egg quality will be very poor.

22honey Mon 24-Feb-14 15:55:57

Definately Nancy! I miscarried and I'd only just turned 22 and it was devastating...I can't imagine how it is for someone much older who hasn't got a lot of time left to have babies!

whatever5 Mon 24-Feb-14 16:03:23

noddyholder - your fertility age won't be younger because you didn't have periods for a few years. Your eggs are still 48 years old. Your periods may be regular but you probably aren't fertile (although it's not impossible at 48 so you should still use contraception).

noddyholder Mon 24-Feb-14 16:07:16

Thanks so much. Was getting worried!

Lagoonablue Mon 24-Feb-14 16:09:09

I posted this this morning. I had children at 43 and 47. Easily. No IVF.

It can and does happen. Tbh some of the comments on here are getting my back up. Talk about judgemental and prejudiced against older mums!

If she can do it, great. It might not happen but no one knows this yet, especially some of the 'fertility experts' on here who say she has no chance.

As someone else said she is in her 40s not her 80s.

Viviennemary Mon 24-Feb-14 16:14:36

I read that after 45 it's quite unusual to be able to conceive naturally. If you think the whole thing will be a disaster I don't blame you for being worried. Some 46 year olds would cope wonderfully and others not so well. But if she is determined it might be unlikely that friends or family can put her off.

Nancy66 Mon 24-Feb-14 16:25:27

Lagoon, you really are an exception to the rule. It's great for you but the chances of most women conceiving with their own eggs after 45 are very slim naturally and zero with IVF

MrsDeVere Mon 24-Feb-14 16:27:43

lagoon I know, I know.
But if you think this thread is bad you want to see the stuff they write about older mums on Netmums shock

I try and console myself by remembering what I was like in my twenties and OH said he didn't want anymore yet and we should think about it later.

I was 'But I don't want to be having babies when I am FORTY!'

I was daft, I thought 40 was old. You do when you are in your 20s. People tend to change their minds when they start to be nearer 40 than 20 themselves hmm

Its the way some posters are treating this adult woman as if she is clearly hysterical and needs a good talking to that gets to me.

Somehow she has managed to raise a child and see her off to university, work all her life and keep a roof over her head.
But because she is looking into her chances of having a baby and smokes she is clearly approaching her dotage and should be sorted out hmm

Leave the woman be! If it is so impossible that someone as ancient as 47 should get pregnant what is the problem exactly? There will be no poor, possibly 'abnormal' child for the op to burdened with will there?

Poor bloody woman.

Lagoonablue Mon 24-Feb-14 16:33:57

The stats are 5% chance. Low but that is 5 women out of a hundred. Not that low.

Btw I would avoid Netmums at all costs! Not for old gimmers like me!

Grennie Mon 24-Feb-14 16:34:59

I am 46. The thought of having a 14 year old at 61 years of age, scares me,

Nancy66 Mon 24-Feb-14 16:35:54

It's more like 1 per cent I think

Lagoonablue Mon 24-Feb-14 16:42:14

Depends where you look.

I think babies in your 40s is not ideal. I think babies for teens is not ideal. Sometimes that is the way it happens.

Women have had babies in their 40s since time began. This woman's need for a baby, her unhealthy lifestyle etc are being picked over very unsympathetically. Just feel a bit of ageism slipping in from some posters.

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 16:49:53

Thanks mrsdevere. My mum has her moments but she's not a raving loon.

I've finished work now and am awaiting the news of what's happened.

She's with her friend who I imagine is gonna be consoling her. She'll tell me after... I'll put my counselling hat on hmm

MerryMarigold Mon 24-Feb-14 17:51:50

I don't think it's ageism. I think if a mum wrote on here about her in her 30's who was desperate for a baby but
Was in an unhealthy relationship
Had an unhealthy lifestyle which she was doing nothing about
Was emotionally a bit immature (op has said she's more of the parent)
Was in a high risk category for pregnancy

The response would be the same.

whatever5 Mon 24-Feb-14 17:57:15

I'm nearly 46 and although I wouldn't have a baby due to ill health, I can't see why it would be a problem for most women of 46 if they could get pregnant. Considering that on average women now live until they're 81, 46 is not that old!!

The main problem with the OP's mum is that she smokes and drinks and the OP doesn't think she would stop if pregnant.

OddFodd Mon 24-Feb-14 18:07:32

noddy - I'm 49 now and my periods have only started being a bit more erratic in the last 6 months. Before that they were every single month - since I was 13!

I also conceived very easily at 40 and 42 but I know that it's fairly exceptional. I really wouldn't advise anyone deliberately waiting until they're in their 40s to start a family (or build on one)

Grennie Mon 24-Feb-14 18:17:37

If you have babies in your 40's, you are also more likely to face having to look after elderly parents and children at the same time.

47 isn't that old, but 61 with a 14 year old teenager and elderly parents is more of a challenge.

MrsDeVere Mon 24-Feb-14 18:44:16

But I had my first children in my 20s and had elderly parents and teenagers. My eldest boy is 20 and my mum is in her 70s.

You might as well say no one over 20 should have kids.

maddening Mon 24-Feb-14 19:06:33

I know her life is set up as it is but anyone's life pre-dc is not setup for dc - most people who have dc experience an impact to their lives - your mum changed her life when she had you so she has done it before so she understands the tiredness and other impacts of having a dc.

I think she should start with the health aspect first anyway - but if she gets pg and can carry the baby then why not. But the health aspect will aid her egg quality which is key as her eggs are older so any help possible is needed - she and her dp should get a good pre-conception vitamin complex, maybe a vitamin b100 complex, maybe take royal jelly, both her and dp cut down the booze. And she should stop smoking and look at diet and exercise - all will improve chances of conception if she is ovulating - and then reduce chances of mc as the quality if eggs is reduced already by age so a healthy body can optimise the chance of a healthy egg and incubation of the baby. She could also have a cycle monitored to check stuff such as her luteal phase (as a short phase can mean eggs releases are underdeveloped or a long phase could mean eggs are released over ripe as it were)

falulahthecat Mon 24-Feb-14 19:29:15

Why doesn't she try fostering?
There are plenty of children who need people to look after them?
Although of course she'll need to stop smoking etc.
Why she seems to think she'll find getting pregnant at 46 whilst overweight and a heavy smoker is beyond me - and may be a big part of why she's not getting the most positive feedback!
Her decision is coming across as a little selfish.... Sorry but that's just my opinion!

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 19:29:50

Just had a long conversation. She's disheartened but ok.

She's not sure what she'd do re abnormalities. We have a close family friend (she's best friends with mum and I was best friends with daughter ever since primary school) who's son is severely disabled so she knows what she could be in for. She has stated that's not what she wants and would get all tests she could and abort if needed.

She wants to have her own child or at least one that's related and not an anonymous donor. Though she accepts that she'd love the baby the same she is nervous of judgement of others.

She has said she's getting it from both ends. When I was conceived she was told anortion was best due to her young age and once born that adoption was. Now she's being told similar because of her 'old' age.

I seriously don't think it's a good idea to conceive with her partner tho. She seems to have a deep rooted hatred for the years she could have got pregnant but spent with him. She feels these were probably her last chance and blames him. shock

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 19:32:21

She's not overweight. She just eats crap. Similar to myself. I'm working on it tho.

falulahthecat Mon 24-Feb-14 19:33:58

I just think if she's even considering using donor eggs there is no reason why she should put herself through this, if anything, and just consider adopting or fostering children who are already in this world and need someone.
My aunt and Uncle foster and whilst it can be tricky they have had some wonderful children, and a close friend of mine adopted and now as the most gorgeous, intelligent DS.
Why is she so intent on carrying the child? Even to the point of asking for your eggs!!?

falulahthecat Mon 24-Feb-14 19:34:54

Oh I misread the overweight bit from another post - sorry!

LondonForTheWeekend Mon 24-Feb-14 19:37:35

Can I just say it is a fallacy that women has always been having babies well into their forties. In the 1880's women were on average in their mid thirties when they had their last child.
Yes some were forties or even early fifties but it wasn't so common.

Timetoask Mon 24-Feb-14 19:40:34

...who's son is severely disabled so she knows what she could be in for.
(whose son) No she doesn't, unless you are living with a child who has special needs day in an day out you really have no idea.

...She has stated that's not what she wants and would get all tests she could and abort if needed.
My son has special needs, all tests came normal. Only difference is that I am younger than her with a really supportive dh so we cope. No way would I have had the energy for the early years at late 40s. Absolutely exhausting. (we adore him! but it doesn't take away how difficult it has been)

bodybooboo Mon 24-Feb-14 19:40:54

MrsD as ever sensible posts.

some of the comments in here are very silly. women have often had babies into their 40s in far more hazardous times than these.

also I wanted my own babies and had them. I had and have no interest in either fostering or adopting. wierd that people jump on these as a fall back position.

many youn people smoke/drink and stop when pregnant so I exist it would be the same for older mums.

re the caring for parents and children at the sane time that's just life. my older 2 are in their twenties and my younger 2 are teens. I am 50. my parents are fit and healthy 80 while mil and fil died in their early 60s.

life is unpredictable.

bodybooboo Mon 24-Feb-14 19:44:36

London my grandmother born was when her mother was 48. small village in Wales and very commen according to my own mother.

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 19:45:30

She has previously tried to foster. They said wait til DP has been out of her life one year as they were separating and she clearly wouldn't have been a good carer at that point. She then met another man who promised to get her pregnant and turned out to be a massive cocklodger and now she's back with original DP. I imagine she wouldn't be able to adopt. When the foster woman came round, her house was normal ish. Now she has a garage filled with reptiles, several aviaries and lots of rabbits and things. All for her new business. Nothing poisonous but big snakes and that. She's also building stuff to make the house better so house is a building site a tad messy.

On another note her DP has offered me 300 pounds so I can buy a much better car than what I can afford but I really want a three series over a mondeo... What to do shock

Jinsei Mon 24-Feb-14 19:45:55

Crikey, there are some very judgey comments on this thread! hmm I know plenty of women who have had babies in their 40s, it's no big deal. My god-daughter's mum was 45 when she was born, and she is coping just fine!

You might want to suggest that changing her lifestyle might improve her chances, but otherwise, you need to butt out!

everlong Mon 24-Feb-14 19:46:48

Only read the OP.
It sounds like a baby would be an absolute disaster. 46, smoking, unfit, drinking, not in a stable relationship and just set up her own business?

I wouldn't even say a dog would be a good idea let alone a baby.

I'm 46 btw. I can't imagine how I'd cope with a baby now. Not very well I expect.

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 19:48:31

Timetoask, they live in each other's pockets and have done for over 20 yrs. She knows exactly what to expect as do I. I agree on the tests tho. I'm not sure she has an adequate answer for that. I'm not sure what to say to her. hmm

amothersplaceisinthewrong Mon 24-Feb-14 19:49:25

So she's in an unstable relationship - definitely not the time to have a child. She'd cope with all the rest - tiredness etc with a supportive partner, but without that, not a good idea.

minionmadness Mon 24-Feb-14 19:49:28

I've tried to hide this thread since I'm one of those geriatric mum!

We can all quote stats but having gone through 7 cycles of IVF I think I'm pretty clued up on the success %'s of fertility treatment. Your mum will have to have lots of luck on her side regardless.

The chances of conceiving with your own eggs are very slim indeed but not impossible if you have the funds for numerous cycles and a great clinic who bothers to get to know you.

I had a great pregnancy and they were born via section at 37 weeks, both good weights. There were 3 other sets of twins born at the same time and all 3 sets were born premature and to much younger mums. They are still in good health, one of my dts's has ASD, but that's definitely genetic from my DH's side.

I haven't smoked since my teens and gave up alcohol when we started TTC at 35, two years after meeting my DH. I'm in good health and am more than capable of keeping up with my two. I have tons of patience and have pretty much been around the world and accomplished my career aims so am happy to commit my life to them without any burning desires to fulfil. I can't say I would have had that attitude in my early 30's.

I hate the judgmental attitude to older mums... usually from women who already have children who think they can tell other women from the luxury of that fact, when they can/can't have children.

Not everyone's life goes the way they thought it might when younger. I never planned to have children late in life, but didn't meet my DH until I was 33. When we TTC it became apparent that we were going to have issues and spent the next 10 years enduring fertility treatment.

heybrothers Mon 24-Feb-14 19:52:29

I'm 33 and (very) single - I really, really want children of my own. I don't want to foster.

I didn't realise you were only allowed to have children if you were lucky enough to meet your life partner under 35 and don't smoke. Silly me.

Chunderella Mon 24-Feb-14 19:53:16

In some ways, the age thing is a bit of a red herring.

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 19:53:44

Amothersplace, she seems to think the baby would make the relationship. I said I think the stress of a baby breaks relationships.

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 19:54:49

Agree chund. It probably is the least of her worries.

heybrothers Mon 24-Feb-14 19:56:33

EveesMummy - to be honest, you sound as if you are the parent.

I have no idea whatsoever whether having a baby at 46 is a 'good' idea in terms of health but I know damn well if a man was wondering about being a dad at 46 - well I doubt so much as an eyebrow would be raised.

I recognise a biological difference is there that may stop her conceiving in the first place. But if she DOES conceive - is there a reason we should gasp in horror? Really?

Nancy66 Mon 24-Feb-14 20:00:21

Evees - from what you've said about your mum (conceiving twice already in her 40s) it sounds like she's fertile. She may well conceive it's just that she has an extremely high chance of miscarrying and it's a case of whether she cope with the emotional fall out of that.

DevonLodger Mon 24-Feb-14 20:04:37

My first daughter was born when I was 43 and my second when I was 46. I don't think I am a bad parent or that my daughters resent me at the moment. Maybe they will in time, maybe they would have if I was 36. I didn't meet anyone I wanted to have a family with until I turned 40. I am glad I did it and will deal with the consequences of being an old parent by loving my children and giving them the best start in life. I don't smoke but I drink wine!

WelshMaenad Mon 24-Feb-14 20:17:23

If she's smoking - at all - I think she'll struggle to find a clinic that will treat her so this is probably all hypothetical. I know that IVF Wales perform breath tests and will not commence treatment if women have not been smoke free.

bodybooboo Mon 24-Feb-14 20:21:46

my first kids were born when we were early twenties, other two late thirties. we were far better parents all round in our later years.

it's absolute bollicks to judge parenthood on age.

some parents are never ready and some are always ready.

ffs it's not a bloody crime to have a child in your 40s anymore than in your teens.

it's called life. which means it's uncertain and fragile.

no one knows how long anyone else has got. I suspect if you ask a teenager would you prefer your parents to be in their 60s or would you rather you hadn't been born I suspect they would choose the first one.

very judgy thread.

expatinscotland Mon 24-Feb-14 20:36:34

Good grief! My gran conceived and had a baby, her sixth, two months before her 48th birthday. She had borne her first at 16!

The baby wasn't planned, but healthy and Gran lived till she was 92.

Life holds no guarantees.

Let her get on with it.

OddFodd Mon 24-Feb-14 20:45:05

I've ignored all the negative stuff about older parents - I'm used to it on here. I can afford a nicer house and better holidays (in a Thelma & Louise sort of way wink).

I don't think I find it harder than any other parent who's 20 years' younger. If people can lead countries in their 40s, I'm sure they'll be able to manage a baby. A newborn is hard work but it's on a par with doing 18 hour days at work.

Lagoonablue Mon 24-Feb-14 20:51:37

As an older mum I find it hard work but probably would at any age tbh. Plus have nothing to compare it with so feeling knackered is normal.

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 20:52:29

Welsh, I'll have to ask. She was tested today. Had some tests. Will get full run down tomorrow. I suspect it's on any paperwork you have to fill in and she won't lie. She's mentioned nothing of it.

heybrothers Mon 24-Feb-14 20:57:03

Brilliant point OddFodd grin

OddFodd Mon 24-Feb-14 21:15:33

Why thank you hey.smile No one ever doubts men's ability to run the world when they're past 40 but women somehow become terribly frail and can't cope with young children without collapsing in a fit of exhaustion. It's absurd.

YesIcan Mon 24-Feb-14 21:31:43

The 1:5 statistic was a cancer survival comment, unrelated to fertility.
I had my first DS at 43 and my second at 45. They are now 3.5 and 1.5 years old.
We spent approx 100K euro in total. The year DS1 was conceived I had 12 flights abroad - first having ivf treatment in Harley St., later donor egg treatment in Spain. DH was my rock throughout all this.
I don't feel old - I swam a mile today on my lunch break. After such trouble conceiving my siblings comment on how much more I 'enjoy' my children, than they did. DH and I have less extended family support. Both grannies are late 70s and unable to help, fortunately we are financially stable enough to pay for childcare - which we were NOT 20 years ago. I have 2 damaged discs in my back and am done in with playing on the floor after 2 hours (max). What I'm saying is there are ups and downs to older parents. Btw I had healthy pregnancies and vaginal deliveries.
OP if you are not willing to leave your DD with your mum overnight - you have an opinion on her parenting.
I think her age is irrelevant but I think she is unreasonable - ivf to 'make' a relationshiphmm

digerd Mon 24-Feb-14 21:34:35

After the age of 43, they will use only doner eggs as the odds are too low for a successful pregnancy with 43+year-old eggs.
The Guiness book of records showed the oldest a woman had a baby was 48 before IVF was invented/discovered.
The youngest girl in the Railway Children film got pregnant at 46 naturally and thought she was in the change. The documentary showed her at 49 with her lovely 3 year-old DD. Her only child.

minionmadness Mon 24-Feb-14 21:35:03

Absolutely OddFod*

My DH is the same age as me and no one would ever think to judge him for becoming a father at 44...

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 21:44:21

YesIcan. She will have ivf regardless of relationship status and is not doing this to make the relationship work. She is doing the ivf and believes a side effect if this will be, making the relationship work. It's not much better but it's her theory shock

I won't leave DD with anyone overnight as she wakes up screaming most nights hmm but I wouldn't leave her with her when she was younger as she has no sense if danger. For example, and it is a shit one but it's the first that came to me at a family event Lots of kids were dancing to music on a dance floor and jumping off a stage. My DD looked like she wanted to join in. It was too dangerous. She could barely walk. She would be in the way of all these ten year olds jumping and running with no regard for a teeny 10 month old. My mum decided to ignore me and placed her on the floor anyway. A small child jumped and landed a hairs length away from DD. I saw it happen realised it was ok and breathed a sigh of relief. As I did that my mum flinched to try and 'save' DD. Slow reactions and stupid ideas shock that's why I distrusted her. Now DD will simply say no if she doesn't want to so anything and is more hardy so I have no problem wink

Chwaraeteg Mon 24-Feb-14 22:02:58

Good luck to your mum xxx

TwittyMcTwitterson Mon 24-Feb-14 22:05:11

Thank you grin xxx

Nancy66 Mon 24-Feb-14 22:06:05

I think your mum has the wrong end of the stick. There's no point in her having IVF if she intends to use her own eggs and already knows she can conceive naturally.

IVF won't increase her chances at all. IVF is for interfile people not fertile ones who are just a bit too old. If she was using donor eggs that would be different but she isn't. I really don't think an IVF clinic will give her an own egg cycle at her age.

bodybooboo Mon 24-Feb-14 22:10:55

good luck to you both, you sound like a super daughter and I really hope your mum is happy in her choices whatever they are.

I hope my dds are as supportive as you are to your mum op.

Did your mum have help when you were little OP? I'm just wondering how you survived? wink

DaffyDuck88 Mon 24-Feb-14 22:24:53

I fell pregnant at 44 and DD arrived the day after my 45th birthday. Perfectly healthy bundle of joy. People spout statistics when they don't really understand them. I've read so many articles full of rash generalisations about how older women (and I'm including myself in that category) are causing all manner of nuisance to the health service. Nonsense. Despite falling for the hype and fearing all manner of hassle due to my age, I had a dream pregnancy and even birth. And that is not meant to be a boast, I was very lucky I know, luckier than a couple of far younger friends and in fact at every stage of my pregnancy I met midwives, nurses and even doctors who said things like, 'ooh loads of people have them later these days' or 'my Mum had me when she was 45 and I was her first!' And that last comment from a lovely doctor. No congenital abnormalities there. Thats not to say there might not be problems, but thats what all the tests are for along the way.

I can't believe anyone could forget the practicalities, i.e. just how much your life changes when you have a baby, so if she wants to try then she should try. Good luck to her.

OddFodd Mon 24-Feb-14 22:33:57

There are two different things here viz your mum's fertility - if she can conceive on her own with no outside agency then that's one; if she's seeking fertility treatment, then that's something else. In the UK, private clinics are quite strict - not least because their stats (which are crucial to attracting new clients) depend upon their turning away those people who are statistically unlikely to conceive.

Supercosy Mon 24-Feb-14 22:35:30

Well I wouldn't but then I am happy with having only 1 Dd now anyway and my health isn't great. I know several people who have had babies later on and tbh they have been fine. I can understand your worries but agree with others that it really is up to her. Obviously she will need to sort out her smoking and alcohol if she wants to optimise her chances, but no doubt the medical team will advise her of that.

bodybooboo Mon 24-Feb-14 22:44:36

DaffyDuck ah lovely affirming post. we do seem very sexist/ageist on this topic here today I think.

TwittyMcTwitterson Tue 25-Feb-14 05:29:46

Nancy, she conceived 7 and 5 years ago. She confirmed last night. Nothing since and not for lack of trying. I think that counts as long enough to consult ivf. It sounds like a good option to me.

Yes it's lovely to hear these stories if happy, healthy 'older' mums. grin

Squiffyagain Tue 25-Feb-14 06:25:18

Quite shocked at the ageist crap on here.

At DCs private school, mums in their 20's/early 30's are as rare as hens teeth and the majority of parents are mid 40's when their kids start reception. We wouldn't blink an eye at a 50yo with a 4yo child. Glad we don't have to hang round the school gates getting judged by some of the people on here.

FWIW, I do wish I didn't ache so much when I get up off the ground when I'm camping with the kids, and I was shattered last week after spending all day every day tearing down mountains, and I do get a bit embarrassed being a fattie and leaving the horse more knackered than me afte riding with my DD. all that is harder to do when you're older, but the spirit to focus on your kids is also a shed load greater when you are older and less hung up on other stuff, so it evens out.

Having my own children negatively judge me and be unsupportive of something that clearly meant the world to me would be very upsetting, so I'd advise OP to tread carefully.

everlong Tue 25-Feb-14 06:59:06

If women were meant to have babies in their late forties and fifties they would be able to naturally. There is a reason why nature intervenes.

Lagoonablue Tue 25-Feb-14 07:11:41

Yes everlong and that is why there are some women that do!

TwittyMcTwitterson Tue 25-Feb-14 07:25:07

Erm, squiffy the whole point of this thread is to gain insight into from people who have experience in the matter so that I can support her.

Re older parents at private school... That would be the norm. I currently pay the costs of a cheap private school for DD to go to nursery. It is obvious that private school is the luxury of older parents who have already earned their money rather than younger parents like myself who would rather use tat money to buy a house in a better area so the children have grown up somewhere nice and seen naicewink people.

Clearly, neither way is wrong but you do what you can. I'm not against older mothers. I'm against people not taking it as seriously as they should and continuing a lifestyle choice that could be the main reason conception hasn't happened in the first place.

It would be similar to me moaning about weight gain but ramming chocolate down my throat which is exactly what I do but that's another thread

everlong Tue 25-Feb-14 07:34:10

Lagoon I can't imagine many women would get pregnant naturally in their late forties and into their fifties. Yes it happens but how often?

My own mother had me at 44 ( 46 years ago ) she died when I was four.

Jinsei Tue 25-Feb-14 07:43:56

I can't imagine many women would get pregnant naturally in their late forties and into their fifties. Yes it happens but how often?

More often than you think, I reckon - certainly in late forties. I know quite a few people who have had "surprise" pregnancies at around this age, and both DH's mum and my dad's mum certainly managed to conceive at a late stage without ivf!

It's awful that you lost your mum at such a young age, but I don't think this has much to do with her age, does it? A friend of mine recently passed away at the age of just 34, leaving behind two children. 48 is still tragically young.

Jinsei Tue 25-Feb-14 07:44:53

I can't imagine many women would get pregnant naturally in their late forties and into their fifties. Yes it happens but how often?

More often than you think, I reckon - certainly in late forties. I know quite a few people who have had "surprise" pregnancies at around this age, and both DH's mum and my dad's mum certainly managed to conceive at a late stage without ivf!

It's awful that you lost your mum at such a young age, but I don't think this has much to do with her age, does it? A friend of mine recently passed away at the age of just 34, leaving behind two children. 48 is still tragically young.

everlong Tue 25-Feb-14 07:50:22

It does have something to with her age!
I was four years old.
My brother was 14, my sisters' 24 and 19.

They all coped with her death much better than I did.

bodybooboo Tue 25-Feb-14 07:51:48

everlong so sorry xx

Lavenderhoney Tue 25-Feb-14 07:55:46

Are the tests to see how close to or if she has begun early menopause? I have had thosesmile

Tbh if your body is still able to conceive naturally it's going to be fine. Most people have to give up their current lifestyle to raise children. Or put it in holdsmile

What does she think about her lifestyle change if it happens? If she is happy with changes just support her cheerfully. And 46 is not that old!!

Jinsei Tue 25-Feb-14 07:57:41

everlong, I'm really sorry for your loss, it must have been awful, and I can see how it might colour your view on this subject.

What I meant was that dying at 48 is simply not something that could have been anticipated. It is still very young, and sadly, some people do pass away before their time. My friend has left behind a 6yo and an 11yo; she was 28 when she had her youngest child. These things can happen to anyone, at any age.

minionmadness Tue 25-Feb-14 08:26:29

everlong I'm really sorry your mum died when you were so young and can see why you think as you do.

However I refuse to live my life worrying about what might be, what sort of life would that be. Would you really begrudge my children being here just because I am older mum. Would you rather not be here to live your life?

People die young too... my own sisters husband died when their son was 6 months old. My best friend died at 41 from cancer leaving behind two small children.

TwittyMcTwitterson Tue 25-Feb-14 08:28:24

Oh ever long, that sounds truly horrible. I'm so sorry for you.

It is a worry of mine that I'll be left to raise them but that could happen at any age. Chances are she so unhealthy she'll live to be 100 just to prove us all wrong wink

I worry mainly about her DP being involved and his stuck up children... I'd much rather it was anonymous

MothratheMighty Tue 25-Feb-14 08:30:56

'She has stated that's not what she wants and would get all tests she could and abort if needed. '

I don't think anyone gets pregnant wanting to give birth to a child with additional needs, and many things don't show up in tests. Autism for example. What do you think she'd do with a child that was born with a significant disability?

perfectstorm Tue 25-Feb-14 08:35:01

I'm 40, with a loving and supportive husband and a mum who is a rabidly keen granny, and I am still finding it so, so much tougher this time. I was last pregnant/newborn at 34, and tbh the change in terms of energy and physical resilience is enormous. Obviously it depends very much on the individual, and some 46 year olds would knock me sideways in terms of fitness and health, but your mum doesn't sound one. Is she really likely to be in a state to handle a 14 year old at 60? I'm well aware dd will be in her teens when I hit the menopause and it gave me a moment or million's hesitation. I'm honestly not sure your mum has the head/heart balance right here... though the biological craving for a baby is so very strong, I know.

SleepSleepSleepSleep Tue 25-Feb-14 08:35:25

I know someone who was born when her Mum was 47. She is the youngest of 7! My own Mum had me at 41. I think it is not very likely she will conceive naturally though - a doctor I was chatting to randomly once told me that after about 43 there is a huge decline in most womens fertility so that successful pregnancies after that age are not common though do happen of course. Also she needs to stop smoking. I would offer support if this is what she really wants though but encourage her to live a healthier lifestyle.

perfectstorm Tue 25-Feb-14 08:35:33

Everlong I'm so sorry.

wishful75 Tue 25-Feb-14 09:46:40

I would go down the donor egg route like tina malone at that age. It worked wonderfully for my friend, happened first cycle (70% chance of a baby per cycle at her clinic) and according to her consultants the birth mother is the biological mother and because of the role of epigenetics actually has as much if not more of an input in the creation of the child than the woman who provided the egg. Her daughter even looks remarkarkably like her!

There is the cost issue of course, I understand it was nearly £10, 000. But if its that amount for such a high possibility or not far from that for normal ivf that only has a very small chance then its a no brainer to me. I honestly think if people knew more behind the actual medical science behind donor eggs and that it is so much more the birth mother's baby than they might think, I think more people would choose this route.

everlong Tue 25-Feb-14 10:17:39

I'm sorry too. I didn't want to upset anyone. I guess my experience does cloud things for me. I had my last ds at 38 and even now I dread something happening to me and he would lose his mum young.

But you're right death can happen at any age.

TwittyMcTwitterson Tue 25-Feb-14 14:16:07

She would keep the child if they had a significant disability. She would need help but she wouldnt desert them. She isnt like that! her heart is too big.

Ive just spoken to her re smoking and drinking. She says she no longer drinks and is on champix to stop smoking but knows she will need to stop that too in order to conceive. I haven't spoken to her over anything other than her moaning about her DP recently but feels a bit strange that she hasnt mentioned she is on champix two weeks in!

I didn't want to mention it in case it made her think the best option was to lie to them!

Crowler Tue 25-Feb-14 14:18:37

Argh, losing your mom at 4 is so sad, Everlong.

I cannot fathom why anyone would do this. Bad idea.

TwittyMcTwitterson Tue 25-Feb-14 14:22:31

lavender, i know she had those tests a few years ago and it looked as though it wasnt coming any time soon.

I know yesterday she was tested to see how many eggs she had left. i imagine the tests are to see what the chances are for her fertility. for ivf and natural. I havent asked the specifics. Ive just assumed as she is talking a lot about IVF.

I'm worried though as she seems to think IVF is a lot less than people have stated. Our cousin had four rounds of IVF and I believe that cost 10K. She looked at some things for the hospital shes visiting today and the brochure led her to believe 700 pounds was all it would be! She is estimating more than double that tho just in case. We dont have abig family but a lot of women in the family struggle. My gran (her mum) had a lot of miscarriages. I believe 7. The cousin who had IVF had 5 and another had 2. i have the fertility of a rabbit and feel guilty as well as happy with this

Nancy66 Tue 25-Feb-14 14:26:14

Evees what I'm confused about is why your mum thinks IVF is the way forward ? I say that as somebody that had IVF.

She isn't conceiving because of her age. IVF can't turn back time.

Thumbwitch Tue 25-Feb-14 14:34:13

EVeesmummy - I think your mum is living in cloud cuckoo land - not re. having the baby per se but because she thinks it will somehow glue her relationship together. That is just about the worst reason to bring a baby into the world, especially if her partner is the dick he sounds to be.

Re. the practicalities of having a baby at 46 - I think she should have made more attempt to be healthier, and especially to have given up smoking.
My 2 boys were born when I was 40 and 45, both conceived naturally with no help - I was very lucky. I was even more lucky that they are both without any obvious problems. My 2nd pregnancy was bloody hard going (still not as hard as some but hard enough for me not to want to go through it again!) but I am not finding it too hard having a toddler at 46 1/2. I am not particularly fit but I eat well and take supplements, which I believe helps. I don't smoke either and rarely drink now.

I owe it to my boys to try and maximise my lifespan now - it wasn't exactly my choice to have children so late, it's just the way it panned out with meeting DH and so on, and having 3 MCs between the 2 successful pgs. But since I've done it, the least I can do is do my best to hang around for as long as possible for them.

Sorry Everlong that you lost your mum so young, that is heartbreaking and would definitely colour your views on older motherhood. sad

perfectstorm Tue 25-Feb-14 14:38:29

Don't be sorry, Everlong. It's a valid contribution to this discussion - and as someone who also had babies relatively late I'm a bit haunted by that fear, too.

OP I think your mother needs to call the clinics and ask for a per cycle price. And the price if she needs (and can even locate) donor eggs, too. Friends were charged £6,000 per attempt recently. They succeeded on the 3rd attempt, but the issue was his (easier to treat) and they were in their very, very early 30s. £700 a cycle doesn't sound right at all.

Nancy66 Tue 25-Feb-14 14:43:22

Your mum may poss be thinking of iui at £700

TwittyMcTwitterson Tue 25-Feb-14 14:43:58

i dont think dying before the kids grow up is exclusively a worry for older parents though. Statistically, yes its more likely but i'm plagued by the thought of what would happen. I'm known to be a worrier but i do sit up some nights worrying about what would happen!

700 is far too cheap. The clinic is in Nottingham as she lives near there. She will obviously be asking about costs today.

I think the answer is simple here. Split up with DP, quit smoking completely, she says she has already stopped drinking. get donor eggs (if needed) and sperm.

TwittyMcTwitterson Tue 25-Feb-14 14:44:10

nancy what is iui?

Nancy66 Tue 25-Feb-14 14:47:01

IUI is artificial insemination. So monitoring the cycle and injecting sperm at the optimum point during ovulation.

These can be natural or medicated cycles.

A lot cheaper than IVF as it doesn't involve egg retrieval

TwittyMcTwitterson Tue 25-Feb-14 14:48:43

possibly. seems silly for her to do though but i know nothing on the subject. an expert may disagree

eurochick Tue 25-Feb-14 14:53:42

IUI and FET (frozen embryo transfer, i.e. using "leftover" frozen embryos from an earlier IVF cycle) can be around 700 quid. IVF ranges from about 3-15k per cycle depending on the clinic, and how complicated the case is (e.g. whether immunology drugs, blood thinners and so on are required).

My other half's mum had a 2nd family, she had 3 more kids, one at 44, one at 45 and one at 46. It's not unheard of at all, and many women this age get caught out pregnant when they thought they were 'past' it.

Constructive advice?

Stop smoking
Stop drinking
Exercise
Take folic acid
Use ovulation sticks

TwittyMcTwitterson Tue 25-Feb-14 17:40:09

Ok so... She was on about iui.

She can't use own eggs. She only has one follicle left (no idea what that means) she's considering a donor. I don't think she will as feels it won't be hers. I feel a guilt trip to donate coming.

Knob faces sperm swim perfectly...

Couldn't have gone worse. hmm

fuzzpig Tue 25-Feb-14 17:49:32

If she keeps pushing you to donate eggs when you've already said no... well, I don't think I could keep a relationship with her TBH.

TwittyMcTwitterson Tue 25-Feb-14 17:52:59

She won't. I'm pretty forceful at times. I'm hoping she'll drop it quickly.

Her age isn't a factor. Her lifestyle is:
She's unhealthy for her age.
She's had two recent miscarriages.

I think you should support your mother's decision, but only after she's taken steps to procure as healthy a pregnancy as possible. I'd say the same for someone of any age.
The smoking, drinking and previous recent miscarriages will have a significant effect on her chances of conceiving.

I speak as a sympathetic 46 year old who would love a last baby and don't consider I'm 'too old', but do consider my health, my finances, and more significantly the fact my current partner is against the idea. So my opinion has developed from that.

Nature determines our childbearing years. If we can still conceive over 50, then that's the natural order of things. The rest is cerebral.

handcream Tue 25-Feb-14 18:33:53

Havent read all the thread tbh and had last baby at 41. However I think your DM is living in cloud cuckoo land. Some people shut their eyes and ears and pick on on one person someone in the world that had a baby at 50 plus and says 'why cant that be me'.

A close relative chose one rubbish man after another, no one forced her into it. She just chose unwisely. At 37 she met the 'man of her dreams' and planned the wedding for a year later. I wish now I had suggested that she get her fetility tested. I didnt. She eventually found she was going through an early menopause. She went for donor eggs outside of the UK. She had the money to do this. Your DM will not get any NHS support and tbh neither should she.

If she really wants a baby she should get in a stable relationship. Her choice. She should stop smoking (her choice again) and think about her options (and you arent one of them!)

TwittyMcTwitterson Tue 25-Feb-14 18:41:12

She has a habit of blaming everyone else. My dad for not wanting more. The man after him for messing her about she spent 6/7 with him. 2/3 years in she found out he had a girlfriend he was living with. He told her he was getting himself back on his feet after a divorce and lived in a static caravan at a holiday home but that was where he took her. Then he persuaded her he had left OW, each time she discovered he hadn't. The last six months he said she had cancer so he could leave her. My mum walked away so many times but he dragged her back with lies and false promises. She never knew he was seeing this woman the whole time. Each time he said it was over. She'd never take another woman's man.

She then met another man who swore he would give her a baby. He moved in, got a roof over his head, she bought him an old freelander but still 2.5k and he then swore he never said that and systematically turned almost all of her friends against her. They know he was lying now but not the point. That's 2 years wasted and now she's back with the original who seems to be filling her with more promises. I can't imagine they're genuine.

She's continuously blaming these men as if she didn't have a choice to leave them. She did. We must be held accountable for our own choices and actions.

handcream Tue 25-Feb-14 18:48:45

I know someone exactly like this. In the UK we choose our partners. You wouldnt think so by some of the threads on MN's. My relative blames everyone for her terrible choice in men. Time and time again she makes the same old mistakes - and this is not some teenager. This is a women in her 30's.

DaffyDuck88 Tue 25-Feb-14 18:53:34

Everlong So, so sorry for your loss.

Supercosy Tue 25-Feb-14 19:00:09

Oh dear, I do feel for you. I hope you don't feel guilty or seriously pressurised to donate to your mum. Yanbu at all. I did say earlier it was up to your mum and I stand by that, despite that I wouldn't do it myself, but putting pressure on you to donate, that's another thing entirely.

TheArticFunky Tue 25-Feb-14 19:10:30

I've

Thumbwitch Tue 25-Feb-14 22:22:12

LeadingToGadeBank - how rude. 2 MCs is a) not a lifestyle choice and b) no indicator that you are unfit to be a parent.

bodybooboo Tue 25-Feb-14 22:25:31

you do have your own life to lead too op you know.

DaffyDuck88 Tue 25-Feb-14 22:49:05

Oh dear OP, reading through the rest of the posts and after raising my flag for 'older mothers' it seems the situation is much more complicated. Stand your ground and guard your eggs, refuse to accept any guilt if its directed towards you. Maybe for your mother its less about the baby and more about the desperation / last chance grab for the possibilities she thought she'd have but realises she has let slip away. (Through her own - now in hindsight misguided choices). As you say 'We must be held accountable for our own choices and actions'. Harsh as it might sound it is true but is probably still very hard to accept.

After the failure of a long term relationship that I stayed in for the promise of children and long before I fell pregnant, I'd say I grieved almost annually for the child I assumed I'd never have. I knew it had been my decision to stay, so my mistake. I wasn't in another relationship for some time (major trust issues to contend with!) and repeatedly told myself it was too late. That I just had to accept it, I'd never have a baby/family. But the letting go of the hope was definitely a kind of grieving. Maybe made worse because I'd let myself be talked into staying in the relationship and so lost the possibility of a few more years of TTC. Of course I can't know if thats what your mother is feeling, but she has you and a grand daughter to be proud of. Maybe she just needs a final shot at this dream she's always had. And if it doesn't come through, then a little help and support to let that hope finally go. You sound very level headed about it all and concerned for her. I hope it works out well for you all whatever happens.
x

melbie Tue 25-Feb-14 23:21:49

I have read most of the comments and so won't rehash all of them. I think it is worth pointing out though that even if she has another baby she still won't have a big family. She will essentially have another only child (in practical terms if not strictly true) and will not have a home full of happy bouncing babies causing chaos. I wonder if it is about wanting love and security form a baby rather than from a man (which has shown to have been lacking). I get that. I am not 46 but I know the feeling

mustbetimefortea Wed 26-Feb-14 00:55:33

Had my ds at 45 naturally with no problems. I was very fit though which helped. I've not found it any more tiring or challenging than any of the other mothers at school who are all at least 10 years younger. I would have liked another child but bounced straight into menopause and didn't want to go down the assisted route as I felt it was selfish to add to my family when so many are desperate for a first baby.

Sad to read so many posts from people suggesting that women in their 50s and 60s are physically incapable of raising children and likely to die at any moment. My ds will have graduated before I reach retirement age - just how many people do these posters know who go straight from retiring from work to living in a nursing home?

expatinscotland Wed 26-Feb-14 01:10:13

My grandmother kept her pipe, she was an Indian, and flask of whisky in her great apron.

Still managed to conceive her last of 6 at 47 and give birth to him at home (it was after the war, and some tried to convince her to go to hospital to have him. Why? she asked, as she'd had all the rest at home) over the same tub she'd born the other 4 in (the girl, the one she had at 16, died of Spanish Flu at 2 years of age). She was a great, fat woman, LOL. She remarried at 30, after her first husband and that child had died of that flu when she was 18, and had 4 more before that boy at 47, the 5th one before when she was 39.

It can happen.

Not usually, it was certainly not planned in her case.

But it can certainly happen. Abortion was illegal then, as if she would ever countenance it, she was a devout Roman Catholic.

Her son was born healthy and strong, became a professor of anaesthesiology, still working and loving it, as is his wife, several years younger, a nurse.

He is 13 years younger than my father, who is 77.

Thumbwitch

You must quote where I have written they are a 'lifestyle choice' and render someone 'unfit' to be a mother. Because I cannot see that in either text or intent.

Oh I see. The positioning of the sentence mentioning the MCs suggests they are inclusive of the unhealthy lifestyle. My apologies for the typo.

Thumbwitch Wed 26-Feb-14 02:41:09

That's ok thanks

FanjoForTheMammaries Wed 26-Feb-14 02:54:00

I think you are being a bit insensitive to her feelings , as a young woman with no such fertility concerns, to be honest.

Being 46 just creeps up on you and you feel mentally the same as anyone younger..I would imagine.

It can be just as real an urge to have a child as at a younger age..and difficult to accept it might not be straightforward.

You should support her all the way and be a bit more empathetic.

FanjoForTheMammaries Wed 26-Feb-14 03:00:51

I think "disabilities" would also be a far nicer word to use than "abnormalities" btw.

FanjoForTheMammaries Wed 26-Feb-14 03:01:29

Just reading lots of people throwing that lovely word around.

mcgilly Wed 26-Feb-14 03:31:45

I'm 46, with three DC, last one at 44. I'm knackered and its so expensive but even so. .... Sometimes I want another.

Whatever is realistic, please recognise that her feelings and wants are perfectly normal. It's probably neither realistic nor a good idea, but she still needs support to work those feelings through.

sleepywombat Wed 26-Feb-14 03:52:19

My granny had my mum at 46, my mil had my sil at 46. It wasn't a big deal then. All healthy, all perfectly good mothers. Nobody made an issue out of it. And silly argument re longevity of parents - my granny was a wonderful granny to me & died at 96. My father's mum, who had him in her 30s, died before I was born.

I feel very sorry for her, all these men treating her like shit. My mum has been through similar (I was not born into a stable relationship either). Its not as easy as saying you make the choice whether to leave or not, especially if all you've ever known is unsuitable men. My mum was desperate for somebody, a nice husband, somebody with whom to have more kids & grow old. She tried & worked at it. Now she is facing her old age alone, because she did tell the last one to leave, after 11 years of him treating her badly, & still pines after him.

Be kind to her, of course you shouldn't donate eggs (& make sure she understands that you're not going to), but do support her in whatever she decides.

TwittyMcTwitterson Wed 26-Feb-14 05:28:33

Thanks guys. I'm going to go up and see her this weekend and give her lots of time with my DD.

This is how much of a prick her DP is. He couldn't stay over at her last night as he had something to do. When I said go over after, he pretended not to hear me. She's not heard from him at all.

I text him as he's lending me money for a new car (only three hundred and to be honest, I'm thinking of being an absolute butch n not paying it back and giving him a black eye. That's the child in me) and he replied to me but couldn't to her. My partner said if she had boys men wouldn't do this to her. hmm

Grennie Wed 26-Feb-14 05:58:24

It seems fairly common for pre menopausal women to consider having another child. Being in my 40's, I know lots of women who consider this. It is because it is literally your last chance. And maybe changing hormones play a part? But most decide against this.

Remember of course in the past, that mothering was physically easier than now. Kids played outside most of the day and were independent way earlier with many starting full time work at 14 years of age. So mothering in the past was a very different proposition to now. If we still brought kids up in that way and thought it was right, I would have had a child in my mid 40's if I could have.

minionmadness Wed 26-Feb-14 08:37:10

I must be extremely fit as I don't find it any more tiring than when I worked pre children. Although an average working week for me was around 65 hours so I guess that built up my stamina.

MrsDeVere Wed 26-Feb-14 15:04:53

I don't think mothering was easier in the past.
Not if you factor in the much more difficult housekeeping and working if you were not able to be a sahm.

The reason kids played outside so much was because there was no room for them to stay in the house with families living in two rooms.

Hand washing, battling soot and dirt, shopping every day and cooking in a kitchen with just a stove and sink. Outside taps and toilets, no bathrooms.

I think we have it much easier now.

Grennie Wed 26-Feb-14 15:42:58

Housework, cooking and cleaning, used to be much more difficult. SAHM were called housewives because their job was largely looking after the house, cooking and washing, not looking after the children. I am not saying women had it easier. I am saying that the expectations of mothering were far less.

Goblinchild Wed 26-Feb-14 16:02:33

Children were also expected to take on a significant share of the jobs and the childminding in the past. Yes, we played out but we were responsible for the younger ones.
Childhood now seems to extend into the mid-twenties for many, with few responsibilities. Look at the threads that go on and on about 'Should I expect my teenagers to do anything in the house?'

Grennie Wed 26-Feb-14 16:03:41

Now housework is less onerous, the demands of mothering have become greater.

MrsDeVere Wed 26-Feb-14 16:18:33

I can see your point but I am still not sure I agree with you smile

Goblinchild Wed 26-Feb-14 16:20:56

Usually because the parents choose to accept those demands, or are afraid of being judged by other parents if they don't. That's a choice.

Grennie Wed 26-Feb-14 16:21:09

I think mothering was harder when the children were small. So when children need lots of physical care such as nappy changes and feeding. But by school age, most children would spend long periods playing outside, or helping out with housework and looking after other children.

BrennanHasAMangina Wed 26-Feb-14 16:22:05

I can't understand why anyone would willingly try to have a baby in their late forties confused. It seems completely delusional (and selfish) to me...if you're starting to deteriorate on the outside (grey hairs, wrinkles, eyesight) then doesn't common sense tell you that your eggs are probably diminishing in quality too? Just crazy. Get a puppy or volunteer with a children's organization, become a teacher or find another way to satisfy that maternal urge if you've left it too late. It's like the elephant in the room...everyone's thinking it but no one's going to say it to your face.

Goblinchild Wed 26-Feb-14 16:22:42

Why do you think that has changed for so many school aged children?
And not for others?

Grennie Wed 26-Feb-14 16:27:18

Not sure Goblin. There seems to be much greater awareness of safety, the idea of what mothering encompasses seems to have expanded, and there is a lot of pressure on mothers to conform around how they bring up children.

I think children are seen as much more fragile now than they used to be - physically and emotionally.

Lagoonablue Wed 26-Feb-14 17:11:17

How insensitive and rude Brennan.

MrsDeVere Wed 26-Feb-14 17:18:36

I have no grey hairs
My eyesight is fine
I have no wrinkles.

Does that mean I have the uterus of a 20 year old?

Yay me!

Diane31 Wed 26-Feb-14 17:18:56

It's not so much her age I would be concerned with; it's everything else. Especially not being in a stable relationship.

TwittyMcTwitterson Wed 26-Feb-14 20:25:09

Brennan, I have a big chunk of grey hair under the bleach, have recently started wearing glasses and have the beginnings of crows feet. I'm also 26. Luckily I get ID'd all the time else I'd be calling Harley street.

Talking of changes in motherhood, my dad's mum (early 70s) used to push his little sister into the woods at the end of her garden in her pram and leave her there while she did the house work. A few people say this was the norm

foreverondiet Wed 26-Feb-14 20:51:07

Well if she wants to have any chance of making it happen she should start to treat her body like a temple.

Perfect diet, would probably go as far as saying sugar, wheat, dairy free, mountains of organic veg and some meat and fish.

Stop smoking, vitamin supplements esp anti-oxidants.

From what you said the chances of her getting pregnant are remote.

SnowAway Wed 26-Feb-14 21:37:45

Look - your mum is not going to have a baby. The massive probability is that she won't. And no, not because of her age in itself, but because she has no eggs, no idea of the true costs, an unhealthy lifestyle, hasn't had a period since November, five years without conceiving, two previous miscarriages etc etc. The chances of her carrying a healthy baby to term are miniscule.

So I think the real question here is for you to consider how you are going to support your mum through what is going to be a very difficult time for her - i.e. having to give up on her dream and accept that her life is what it is? I think THAT'S what you need to focus on, not whether or not she should have a baby, because it just doesn't sound at all likely, and the other option - the one where she's going to be left bereft with this 'hope' gone - is sadly far, far more likely.

Ps) I know it's not my business to say so, but I don't really think you should be borrowing money from someone you hate as much as you hate your 'stepfather'. You're indebted to him if you do that. No car is worth giving up your self respect for!

MrsDeVere Wed 26-Feb-14 21:56:19

No, leaving your baby unattended in the woods was not the norm in the 70s.
Sat outside the house in a pram or in the hallway was pretty routine though.

TwittyMcTwitterson Wed 26-Feb-14 21:57:48

Yes snow, since this thread started it has changed from what if, to a not gonna happen. She's doing well. I'm going up this weekend to double check but all seems better than expected.

Re the car, I picked it up tonight... Yay \O/ money is fine and sorted. Not a self respect issue as such. Though frankly it's tomb straddling that at 26 I can't afford a full car and have to lend 300 hmm

TwittyMcTwitterson Wed 26-Feb-14 21:59:00

Tomb straddling???? I mean embarrassing. <gives iPhone a look of disapproval>

handcream Wed 26-Feb-14 22:10:53

I agree with Snow. Spot on...

Thumbwitch Wed 26-Feb-14 23:18:22

I echo what LagoonaBlue said.
I have about 4 grey hairs, no crows feet and skin is still fine and unsaggy, thanks. And my eyesight has been shit since I was 6 - so really not age-related.
So fuck off with your preconceived ideas Brennan - you're out of date and a bit lacking in a wider perspective.

mustbetimefortea Wed 26-Feb-14 23:46:34

OP - thought at first "tomb straddlers" was Brennan's description of women over 40 grin . See my eyesight has gone so she must be right.

BritishGal Thu 27-Feb-14 00:06:15

My lovely friend had a baby at 48. She's v proud of announcing that she took a 2 yr old to her 50th. She's a wonderful mother, the father was furious and didn't speak to my friend for the entire pg. They are doing so well as parents, BUT the little girl is suffering IMO. In terms of clothes, behaviour, etc. They are forcing her to behave like a 60s child - which just doesn't relate to this age. She's suffering at school - and the parents have no idea they are causing it. Therefore - np with older parents, just remember which decade your children are being born into.

Grennie Thu 27-Feb-14 01:16:29

My mum had older parents, after a long gap from her brother. I know she is against women and men having children when they are much older as a result of her experiences.

Lagoonablue Thu 27-Feb-14 06:32:56

Yes I am sure my kids are being damaged by me being sooooo ancient. FFS

'Remember the decade they are born into....' WTAF. What on earth are some people talking about on here???? It is getting so offensive. The idea that being in your 40s is elderly, that you are physically decrepit, that you might not know how to raise a child in a modern way? Really? People think older parents would do this?

TwittyMcTwitterson Thu 27-Feb-14 07:05:07

To a point I agree tho. You should have seen the dresses my mum put me in!!! She brings them down from the loft and puts DD in them shock

The old saying 'when I was young I didn't care what I wore, clearly my parents didn't either' comes to mind wink

TwittyMcTwitterson Thu 27-Feb-14 07:06:29

But clothes could possibly be quite unimportant and not what PP meant. Makes me chuckle tho. And all the terrible hairdos. Ha! Thanks for the morning giggle.

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 27-Feb-14 07:36:04

People don't necessarily put their kids in the clothes of their childhood you know.

I am nearly 42 (how ancient) and my daughter is dressed in modern fashionable clothes.

And I dont use 1970s parenting techniques.

Some real nonsense on this thread.

mustbetimefortea Thu 27-Feb-14 07:52:10

I think I might know where "Britishgal" might be coming from. These elderly 40 year old parents will be doing all the old fashioned stuff like taking their dcs to the park, reading to them, playing with them, having conversations with them. When we all should all just be parking them in a corner with an ipad - it's the modern way doncha know.

OddFodd Thu 27-Feb-14 07:56:23

Ahaha - yeah of course I dress DS in fuddy duddy frumpy stuff because I'm 50. hmm

DS wears POP and Boden when he's not at school and minecraft tshirts.

SwayingBranches Thu 27-Feb-14 08:00:34

I'm really curious now what forcing to behave like a 60s child actually means?!?

BrandNewIggi Thu 27-Feb-14 08:04:28

This thread has encouraged me to go and have a proper look at my 40-something head for the first time in a while, and lo and behold it is full of grey hairs - I hold mumsnet personally responsible for this well either mumsnet or the toddler

minionmadness Thu 27-Feb-14 08:12:11

I am choking on my coffee reading a couple of the posts... Do some younger woman really believe that mid 40's is old? From some of the comments clearly so. Am chuckling at what some of you think a 70 year old is then.

My df is 83 and is one of the coolest guys I know, his approach to life is that of a much younger man. I really believe that lots of people get old before their time in their attitude which makes them appear older than they really are.

I don't believe for one second that because a parent was born in the 60's they would treat their child as if from that decade. Utter nonsense. I was born in the 60's and as I said earlier have 6 year old twins and they are certainly not parented as if from that era, why would I suddenly go back in time.

Brennans My lovely you seem very bitter, is there anything anyone can do to point you in the right direction to get help with that.

MrsDeVere Thu 27-Feb-14 08:41:32

What a load of crap.
Do you dress your kids in dungarees and bandanas and Aciiiiid teeshirts BritishGal?

I am assuming you were born in the early 90s based on your posting.

Do you take them to raves and force feed them space dust and monster munch?

Desperately track down old videos of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles?

drivenfromdistraction Thu 27-Feb-14 08:42:44

ha ha re: bringing children up as per the decade you were born in yourself. That could be quite fun, though.

I had my DC between the ages of 36 and 4 Judging by the faces of the other mums in the playground, I am pretty normal. It is a private school, admittedly (someone upthread suggested that older parents are more likely to be able to afford private). Mind you, my NCT group with my first was a group of 8 women, of whom 5 were older than me by a year or two - and their kids are all at local state schools, so I don't think it's unusual anywhere.

There's some sort of research that shows DC born to older mums have a higher IQ. Just to counterbalance the fewer viable eggs etc.

mustbetimefortea Thu 27-Feb-14 09:25:02

Swaying see my earlier post this morning for ideas. Plus I guess we had no fast food, restricted amounts of tv, played outside, early bedtimes, respect for adults, manners drilled into us, and not so much tat lovely things to play with.

Forgive me if I'm wrong (and I'm over 40 and therefore senile hmm) but isn't much of this what the current government is constantly banging on to parents about doing? Isn't the official line that children should be cutting out fast food, cutting down screen time, getting more exercise, getting more sleep, etc, etc?

curiousuze Thu 27-Feb-14 09:51:20

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving. Every time I come back to it there's an even more ludicrous post. I'm 39 and considering more kids. If I wait till next year:

I will need to use IVF
With someone else's eggs
I will most likely have twins
Both with congenital abnormalities

If I survive the birth (unlikely due to my advanced age):

I will become terminally ill through tiredness
Or at least die before the baby is 10
I will dress the baby in flares and encourage them to take part in strikes (I was born in the 70s)

drivenfromdistraction Thu 27-Feb-14 10:01:33

curiousuze, I feel exactly the same! I would have another DC if I won the lottery and DH could be convinced. I am 43 smile

kilmuir Thu 27-Feb-14 10:06:40

My friendhad twins at 48. Conceived naturally.
But she was non smoker, fit and in a stable relationship, she was very surprised!

kilmuir Thu 27-Feb-14 10:09:23

Do you think its more to do with acknowledging her child bearing days are coming to a natural end?
My friend is 46 and feels awful that nature is taking her choice away, if that makes sense. She would love another baby , but her DH does not. Her sons are leaving home and she hates it !

curiousuze Thu 27-Feb-14 10:22:54

Forgot to add that when I hit 40 I will age overnight, my face crumpling like a rotting apple, like the fella in Indiana Jones who tries to steal the holy grail. I'll just be a skeleton with a couple of dangly eyeballs shouting at the kids to eat up their fray bentos, smash and angel delight.

Lagoonablue Thu 27-Feb-14 10:28:26

Ha ha . Curious, that's funny about flares and strikes. I think I will do that with mine. Introduce powercuts and a 3 day week of work for me and DH, our kids will love being brought up as 70s kids.

drivenfromdistraction Thu 27-Feb-14 10:39:51

that when I hit 40 I will age overnight, my face crumpling like a rotting apple

I know you're being sarcastic, but when I look in the mirror, that's exactly what i see. Happened at 37 though. When DC1 was born. So might have been the same if I'd been 17...

curiousuze Thu 27-Feb-14 10:55:26

Oh my face is already most of the way there thanks to DS. I used to look young for my age as well {hollow laugh}

Goblinchild Thu 27-Feb-14 10:58:45

'that when I hit 40 I will age overnight, my face crumpling like a rotting apple'

Only if you are a scrawny gym bunny.
I'm in my 50s, but thanks to a lifetime of eating healthily my face and limbs have not withered away yet.

Pigsmummy Thu 27-Feb-14 11:00:12

Curiousuze I am with you. 39 wanting a 2nd child. Gosh how will I cope with my twins and my terminal tiredness?

Time machine anyone?

Oh hang on, what's that you say? What women have been doing this for years and no ones leg fell off?!?

Timetoask Thu 27-Feb-14 11:03:43

Do some younger woman really believe that mid 40's is old? From some of the comments clearly so.
Old for what though? For having a baby, I personally think so, yes.

Squiffyagain Thu 27-Feb-14 11:09:30

Doesn't matter how old you are when you have kids. You'll still age in dog years from that point forwards.

DurhamDurham Thu 27-Feb-14 11:11:46

I'm 43, fit and healthy and would have loved more children (I have two)
However we couldnt afford more than two and although it is a regret of mine that I didnt have at least children I cannot think of anything worse than 'starting again' now. My girls are 16 and 20, so I'll just wait to become a Grandma!
Even if we won the lottery and my husband was keen I would not consider having a baby now. Each to their own and I would not judge anyone else who decided to have a baby in their 40's. Once they reached their 50's I would start to judge, there has to be a cut off point somewhere.

hopefulgum Thu 27-Feb-14 11:33:00

I haven't read the whole thread, I got to page 6 and skipped to here.
Clearly this is a very personal decision, and being an older mother myself, I know that being judgemental is pointless.

Everyone seems to have an opinion on whether it is okay to have children later. I say live and let live. As MrsDevere said earlier: people do die at a young age, with young children, but it doesn't stop young people from trying to have a baby. Babies with problems are also born to young couples. MAny older people live long,healthy,active lives.

My DS was born when my DH was 48. He is a fine father and we both feel that our little boy gives us many good reasons to take care of ourselves so we can be here for the long haul.

I am now 47 and do not consider myself too old for another child.

However, I will say that ttc at this age is not for the faint of heart. I have had three losses since my DS (who was born just before my 42nd birthday). Miscarriages are more common in our forties, and yes egg quality and hormones might let us down, but it doesn't mean it is impossible.

I am lucky. I was able to conceive my beautiful, healthy bright spark of a little boy in my early forties easily. I still hope for one more healthy egg, but I am realistic about my chances (it has now been nearly two years since my last miscarriage).

I think, if your mum is serious about having a baby she must clean up her lifestyle and really consider carefully how much she wants a baby.If it is very,very important to her, she should do IVF with donor egg. I haven't, and I won't because I am ok if I don't have another baby. I am lucky to have what I have.

Goblinchild Thu 27-Feb-14 11:39:17

'Doesn't matter how old you are when you have kids. You'll still age in dog years from that point forwards.'

grin How very true, Squiffy!

BrennanHasAMangina Thu 27-Feb-14 12:55:51

I'm really curious about the thought process that goes into deciding to try for a baby in your late forties. Did your healthcare providers really not have anything to say on that subject? Don't you think it strange when you see children with adults and have to dance around the fact that you're not sure if they are parents or grandparents? It's like seeing forty-plus women who dress in clothes better suited to teenagers....fanciful is just the right word, I think.

drivenfromdistraction Thu 27-Feb-14 13:33:11

Well, Brennan, I suppose your experience might be that grandparents are in their 40s, but it's certainly not mine! That would seem a terribly young grandparent to me (age 43 with DC aged 6, 4 and 2). Nearly all my friends, most of my NCT group and many of my fellow-mums at school had their babies in their late 30s and early 40s. Just how life worked out with marriages, careers etc. I imagine the thought process isn't much different from someone in their 20s - though perhaps fewer 'happy accidents' and more intentional planning overall.

Don't think any of us dress like teenagers, by the way. Whatever that looks like.

Thumbwitch Thu 27-Feb-14 13:51:40

Jeez there are some weird attitudes on this thread! shock

Britishgal - your friend with the 2yo at 50, god alone knows what she's thinking, but I can assure you that all of the parents I know of all ages are fully aware of which decade, nay century! they are bringing up their children in.

TBH, I was embarrassed to be dressed in clothes of the 1970s as a child - and I was a child in the 1970s! fucking awful stuff going on back then. I was more than horrified to see it making a comeback and I certainly wouldn't have inflicted it on my children.

And as for the next fucking stupid statement from Brennan, regarding fortyplus women dressing like teenagers - ha! One of the biggest problems I, and many others of my age seem to have, is that most of the clothes in the shops are designed for either teenagers or the middleaged woman (or business clothes). There is a distinct lack of decent clothes for women in our position - so what, should we all dress in bin bags? With an extra one over our heads, to avoid embarrassing young people who get the shudders at the idea that people "of our age" still have sex? Just so they don't find themselves in the terrible position of having to work out whether we're the parent or the grandparent of the child we're with hmm

Oh forgive me for being such a social problem. hmmhmm

<might be having a bit of a rant here>

OddFodd Thu 27-Feb-14 13:56:42

What a sheltered life you must lead Brennan sad

BrennanHasAMangina Thu 27-Feb-14 13:59:21

I hear Per Una has some nice things, Thumbwitch wink. Someone posted a very fetching ruffly fleece cardigan the other day. Cozy and practical with just a hint of whimsy and youthful femininity. Check it out!

Thumbwitch Thu 27-Feb-14 14:01:54

Sounds like it would do for you, dear, not my style at all.

hopefulgum Thu 27-Feb-14 14:15:11

brennan my health carers have been very supportive. They have told me I have good hormone levels and proven fertility but the miscarriages are not surprising. My doctor has always been honest about the chance of miscarriage at my age but she has never tried to talk me out of ttc and seems to enjoy telling me about patients who are having babies in their mid to late forties. I think she knows that I am realistic about my chances but I know if I for get pregnant again she will be cheering me on.

clockwatching77 Thu 27-Feb-14 14:31:45

Omg. Cannot believe how this thread has turned. I better go out and buy my dc some flares as I was born in the 60s (shock horror) and I have a 17 month not 17 year old.

clockwatching77 Thu 27-Feb-14 14:33:08

A singleton unplanned pregnancy with no health complications for mum or baby.

MrsDeVere Thu 27-Feb-14 15:58:57

When I had DCs 4 and 5 in my 40s I heard not one single negative comment from any HCPs
What would you expect them to say Brennan?

'OMG your are pregnant and 43! Get rid of it'

Littleen Thu 27-Feb-14 16:10:55

In general I have nothing against people having kids in their 40s, but it doesn't sound like a sensible choice for your mother! It totally depends on the situation and indiviual, mentally and physically health wise, and she doesn't sound like she's in the right position for it unfortunately. Perhaps she can find more joy in grandkids? smile

minionmadness Thu 27-Feb-14 16:42:30

FYI Brennan my consultant sent me a bouquet of flowers... he was over the moon that he had helped us achieve our dream. He and the rest of the clinic had been through the many down times with us over 7 cycles of IVF. I didn't (as you say) leave it too late, I didn't meet my husband until I was 33 then as fate would have it my tubes were shot probably due to an infection caused when I had my appendix out in my 20's.

I saw tons of HCP's over those 7 cycles and not one ever raised an eyebrow. Of course you will believe that's because they didn't dare, but that would be wrong, I like to think they all had something that sounds very lacking in your personality... Empathy.

BrennanHasAMangina Thu 27-Feb-14 18:28:57

Were those 7 cycles of IVF done free-of-charge, Minion? Presumably those consultants received hundreds of thousands of dollars of your money for the privilege of helping you on your journey to parenthood?

everlong Thu 27-Feb-14 18:32:49

Why so bitter brennen?

TwittyMcTwitterson Thu 27-Feb-14 18:36:00

Low blow Brennan. shock

OddFodd Thu 27-Feb-14 18:42:08

Wow Brennan - your children are so lucky to have such a judgemental bigot for a mother. Not

How sad that you're bringing them up so badly

MrsDeVere Thu 27-Feb-14 18:44:50

Even if they were on the NHS and I doubt they were, I am very happy for my taxes to go on helping people to become parents.

And I am guessing I have been paying taxes for a lot longer than you have

minionmadness Thu 27-Feb-14 18:57:17

Oh dear... what caused such bitterness in you Brennan

No they were not on the NHS, even though I have paid higher rate tax for most of my adult life I would rather the NHS fertility treatment budgets was spent on those unable to fund privately.

Yes I paid for a service... just like we pay for most things in life, not much is free, although don't quite understand how you calculate 7 cycles of IVF at hundreds of thousands! Showing your ignorance on the subject. What you re really saying in your twisted world is that he only sent the flowers because I had spent so much money at his clinic.

You couldn't be further from the truth and honestly I feel sorry for you... to have such bitterness towards me when all I did was have a baby (well two actually) but who's counting. wink

BrennanHasAMangina Thu 27-Feb-14 19:08:09

You're right; I have no experience with IVF and I don't live in the UK so no idea what it costs, or whether the NHS covers any of it but I'm willing to bet it's very, very expensive. I was close, right?

This thread is like the land that common sense left behind confused. I shall leave you to enable each other in peace smile.

OP, good luck with your Mum.

Goblinchild Thu 27-Feb-14 19:09:34

Brennan
Are you
An





American?
Traumatised by the idea of ObamaCare?

Lagoonablue Thu 27-Feb-14 19:13:02

You're hilarious Brennan don't go. Really. Sitting in judgement over who can and can't have a baby. Do you have a cut off point in mind when all procreation must stop? Just so we know......

Bye...and shut the door on your way out love, thanks.

MrsDeVere Thu 27-Feb-14 19:39:35

I am willing to bet Brennan won't be so vocal about older mums in a few year time when she has got older grown up and is considering ttc another baby.

Because it will be different for her.

Plus. Fucking cheek bleating on about how much IVF costs in a country she doesn't contribute to.

Bog off.

perfectstorm Thu 27-Feb-14 20:14:46

Were those 7 cycles of IVF done free-of-charge, Minion? Presumably those consultants received hundreds of thousands of dollars of your money for the privilege of helping you on your journey to parenthood?

Not in this country. You see, we have a sane healthcare system, not one run for maximum profit. A friend had 3 cycles (the average) of IVF and it cost 18 grand. Thats a hell of a lot of money, and the clinic as one of the most expensive we have (very, very good as well) but a fraction of the hundreds of thousands you quoted. One of the handy things about the NHS is that it greatly depresses the cost of private healthcare, for those few people who feel the need to selectively access parts of it. I paid less for my Harmony test than US citizens accessing it - despite the lab being based in the States. Go figure. smile

By the way, is that Mangina your partner in which case LTB - or are you a man holding forth on how inappropriate it is for women to reproduce at an age men merrily drop sprogs with nary a comment from anyone?

TwittyMcTwitterson Thu 27-Feb-14 21:02:55

Didn't realise someone having children a little bit later could invoke such a reaction. Apologies to anyone offended by idiots grin

Pregnant at 24 n I felt I was far too young. You can't win

MarlenaGru Fri 28-Feb-14 08:29:01

Very late to the party but a very interesting thread! I was 28 when I had my first. I was six years younger than the next youngest in my NCT group.

In DD's year one class I am by far one of the youngest mums, admittedly it is private but I envy those mums! They are able to give more of themselves having built up careers before having their children in a stable financial life. I am expecting our second shortly and at 33 I feel a lot more prepared. Still not as financially stable as I would like but comfortable enough. This will be our last for financial reasons but if we have enough money in a few yeArs who knows!

hellosailors Fri 28-Feb-14 08:40:40

Can someone please link me to the information that "Is she aware that at 46 about 1 in 5 babies conceived will have a major congenital abnormality?". Thanks.

fluffyraggies Fri 28-Feb-14 11:54:03

Some very odd notions on this thread. Late ... but i have to add my bit.

I was born and raised late 60's early 70s. I had my first 3 DCs in my 20s.

I didn't raise them as '60s children' confused Why would i? i was in my 20s and it was the 1990s. MY MOTHER may have been a little inclined to have harked back to the 60s/70s ways with them, as that's when she was raising me.

Fast forward to now and i've remarried, am 45 and have a 4 week old baby. My 3 older DDs are now teens. Loving their baby half sister smile

I fell preg. naturally - took 2 years of ttc, but no intervention. (don't smoke, drink socially, average weight, could be fitter) Normal pregnancy and birth, healthy bubba, me and DH over the moon.

Amazingly i still wont be tying to raise a '60s baby', and even more amazingly am able to comprehend that some things have changed re: baby care even in the last 15 years. (Not much it seems, mind you ... mainly weaning advice, better support for breast feeding, no talc allowed and the internet to look at for advice. And MN!)

This baby will be a child of her time, with me, her dad, and 3 feisty 20 something half sisters to love her.

I am loving being a new mum again grin Much more patience and confidence in myself. DH is so thrilled and feels so special to be a dad (first baby, he's younger than me), this baby has so much love and support in her life.

Thumbwitch Fri 28-Feb-14 11:57:51

Oh congratulations fluffy! thanks

Badvoc Fri 28-Feb-14 11:59:30

I think if she refuses to give up smoking and drinking then she cannot want a baby that badly tbh.

squoosh Fri 28-Feb-14 12:16:19

Congratulations fluffy, your post made me all mushy!

floppyfanjo Fri 28-Feb-14 12:35:32

Congratulations Fluffy.

I had DS3 at 41 (and 51 weeks) DS1 was 23 at the time, so I can relate to your joy !!

Oh and today when dropping DS at pre school a small random girl tapped me on the leg and said "you look beautiful" It made a 46 year old v happy esp as some of the views on this thread were making me feel like I had one foot in the grave......................

squoosh Fri 28-Feb-14 12:44:02

Yay for small random girls floppy, they speak the truth!

MerryInthechelseahotel Fri 28-Feb-14 13:32:48

Congratulations Fluffy thanks

BoffinMum Fri 28-Feb-14 16:52:17

Brennan, the point about the depressed healthcare costs due to the NHS is a valid one. it only costs £2500-£5000 for someone to have a baby over here, with all the trimmings, and the whole tab is picked up by the taxpayer. In the US just the excess can be the lower figure, as I understand it. If you have UK health insurance with maternity benefits, say BUPA International, then they allow around £3000 for a normal vaginal delivery and you might pay a £100 excess. Again, it's on the low side because there isn't much point to going private for most people. In fact outside London there are practically no private maternity facilities, and in London those that exist are predominantly used by overseas patients who are not eligible for NHS treatment.

The other great thing is that you don't have any uncertainty about bills or coverage, and there are no days spent on the phone arguing with insurers, or difficult moments in hospital where you wonder if you can justify the expense of some test or other. Basically most of the time, despite a lot of our whinging about wards with four people in a bay and noise, etc, if you need something on the NHS someone will organise it for you. That includes some single rooms for women who have had difficult or distressing births, fairly acceptable food, surgery, tests, dressings, counselling and so on. When things get busy some of the touchy feel stuff starts to go out of the window, but the important stuff like maternal and infant mortality rates are really good, and that's the main thing. The other advantage is that thanks to NICE (National Institute for Clinical Excellence) who analyse treatment success rates and so on, if someone if trying to flog you some healthcare thing or other than is not available on the NHS, you can usually be pretty sure the evidence base for it will be flaky, hence the need to pay for it yourself. All the established, reputable stuff is free and dished out pretty fairly, tbh. High level, experimental and advanced stuff is also available in teaching hospitals if you require something usual. I can't think of anything I have needed and couldn't get apart from I paid for a nuchal scan on a couple of occasions when I wasn't in a high enough risk group to really warrant it.

With regard to IVF, this is becoming increasingly common amongst older age groups and while I haven't needed it myself, friends have spent something like £6000 a cycle approx around here. Most people I know seem to manage to have a baby within about 3 cycles as the clinics are pretty clued up. So it's the price of a family estate car, or 18 months private nursery fees, and consequently within the grasp of the average middle class couple. Some treatment is available on the NHS but I am not sure exactly what.

Ultimately here in Blighty we think our system is really valuable and valued. It's not perfect, but we see the chaotic, patchy provision in the US, and how many people die through lack of insurance, or how a few medical bills wipe out the assets of several generations of a family at once, and it just baffles us completely. The amount you all spend on insurance compared to our relatively low tax take for this benefit seems bonkers as well - why pay about 3 or 4 times what you need to for something when you can get it cheaper? To us it looks lacking in thrift and also disrespectful of fellow citizens (Christopher Reeve's experiences after his accident only served to reinforce our views - he was very popular over here and we looked on in shock as he started to have financial difficulties due to being paraplegic).

That's the British position, anyway.

BoffinMum Fri 28-Feb-14 16:54:28

Congratulations from me too, Fluffy. thanks

Gossipgirladdict Fri 28-Feb-14 17:20:46

I too am coming late to this, but would like to add my story...

DD was born a month before my 39th birthday, after years of ttc and IVF (paid for ourselves privately). We always hoped for a sibling for her, (more for her than for us, I already felt so very lucky to have her) but as our fertility problems were due to severe endo and scar tissue it seemed very unlikely. As time went on, we got on with life, enjoying our precious daughter.

Six years later, at the age of 44.5, I found I was miraculously pregnant (naturally). We had worries, of course, but there was never any question of what we would do. I actually had an easier pregnancy second time just don't ask me about the birth. DD2 arrived a month before my 45th birthday and is now, at 15 months, playing happily at my feet. The joy she has brought us, her sister and our families, is immeasurable.

I feel no 'shame' in being an older mother. My daughters will want for nothing. With years of working behind us, we are comfortably off, with a small mortgage. DD1 has dancing, swimming and gymnastic lessons (and DD2 will get the same). We have lovely holidays, the girls wear beautiful clothes (not designer or anything and not 'old-fashioned' either). DH has worked himself into a senior position that has allowed me to take a part-time role with term-time only working. (I am not boasting here, it's just how it is).

My girls have a great life, surrounded by love. I wouldn't swap places with anyone, 10, 15, 20 years younger or not...!

P.S. Congratulations fluffy!!

fluffyraggies Fri 28-Feb-14 17:27:49

Aw, bless you all for your congrats grin thank you.

MN a nest of vipers? Not today flowers

perfectstorm Fri 28-Feb-14 17:57:23

Aww, adding another congrats to you, Fluffy!

OddFodd Fri 28-Feb-14 18:09:38

Congrats from me too fluff

I did mention the financial ease of being older earlier in the thread gossipgirl but it has made being a single parent to a child with SN bearable. I can afford to pay for private treatment and work part-time. If I were young, it would be horrendous because I wouldn't have the time or money to access him the support he needs

IfNotNowThenWhen Fri 28-Feb-14 18:25:50

I dunno. My Nana had my dad at 46 (or maybe 47-she was always a bit sketchy about her age) and she smoked and lived on chicken soup and egg and chips.
And her husband was 11 years younger (which he, apparently was clueless about)
I try and channel her chutzpah daily!

Your mum does need to quit smoking, really though.

BrennanHasAMangina Fri 28-Feb-14 19:29:29

Thanks for that, Boffin. I'm actually a British born-Canadian citizen, not American. Our health care system sounds very similar to the NHS and I think both are AWESOME. I have no idea what provisions are in place for those who desire IVF treatment here but I believe it's covered provincially for x number of cycles and then must be funded by the individual (I imagine there is an age limit?). At that point, I think it gets EXPENSIVE.

Mrs DV - Noooooo.....no more babies here. I got married at 22, had my DC at 25, 28 and 30 (respectively) and then closed up shop PERMANENTLY. I am done with that rigmarole and DH and I want to travel more when the kids are a bit older. Plus, my dogs are excellent baby substitutes smile.

Dollybird86 Fri 28-Feb-14 19:34:07

Does she need to physically carry a child would adoption or fostering not be an option there are lots of children that need a loving home.

bakingtins Fri 28-Feb-14 19:48:48

I think adoption and fostering have now been mentioned several times. The smoking, drinking, poor diet/health and unstable relationship would all count against her. Age in itself not a problem unless she wanted to adopt a baby, most agencies will only place a child where the age gap is <40 years, so she'd be considered for a child 6+, if she was otherwise suitable. I don't think the age gap bit applies to fostering. You can't foster and run a new business either, and I imagine an adoption agency would take a dim view, you would need to be available for the child.

Isn't it more about suddenly realising that her fertility is at an end and horizons in that department are suddenly closing in, and needing to grieve for lost opportunities? If she was serious, she would have cleaned up her act whilst TTC.

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