to ask if my daughter can come to the wedding?

(455 Posts)
splasheeny Sat 22-Feb-14 14:46:38

A very good friend is getting married, she was my only bridesmaid when I got married. She has moved away from me and I don't see her very often now, but we do stay in touch. I was hurt she didn't ask me to be bridesmaid, but haven't said anything.

The wedding is on the same weekend ans my dd's birthday, and in the middle of nowhere, some distance from where we live, so it will involve spending the weekend there (plus getting annual leave for travelling, something which I am not sure if will even be granted).

I am already planning my dd's birthday party for the week prior, as even if we were able to get back in time for her birthday, we wouldn't have time to plan a party the same weekend. I also don't know what we would do for childcare, and it feels mean to leave dd for her birthday. It will also cost a lot for hotel, transport, and childcare, which we could afford but would be at the expense of other things.

The wedding is not child free.

Wibu to ask if dd can come? Timing and location of the wedding really make things really difficult. I don't know if its rude to ask, would it be better to no go? I'm tempted to say could she come, she wouldn't even need a chair and can eat off my plate. AIBU?

MrsDavidBowie Sat 22-Feb-14 14:49:01

I wouldn't go tbh. Too much hassle.
Bit cheeky to ask if dd can come...any children going will probably be family.

Bunbaker Sat 22-Feb-14 14:49:16

Not at all. Just explain that you don't want to leave your daughter on her birthday. If I was your friend I would feel mortified that you would be in this position.

BackforGood Sat 22-Feb-14 14:50:55

Yes YABU.
You have been invited. If you think it will be too difficult for you to go, then reply, declining the invitation.
If she feels that's a real shame, she may ask you why, or it may be you are chatting on the phone or something in the meantime, but then, and only then would be the opportunity to say that you can't get childcare, and that leaves it open to her to invite your dd or not.
It would be very rude to ask if she can go, if not invited.

expatinscotland Sat 22-Feb-14 14:51:13

Don't go to the wedding. Sounds like a hassle. If people chose to have weddings in the middle of nowhere, there will always be those who can't go.

WorraLiberty Sat 22-Feb-14 14:51:54

I suppose you could always phone her and say "Hi, I'm just checking whether the invitation includes DD or not?"

It's a conversation opener anyway...as long as you respect her answer.

splasheeny Sat 22-Feb-14 14:52:58

So in the brides situation, would people rather your friend didn't come than asking about a solution? Genuinely wondering.

NickNacks Sat 22-Feb-14 14:53:07

How old is your dd?

Incapinka Sat 22-Feb-14 14:53:54

I would phone her and explain that you can't come as it is your daughters birthday and see what she says in response. Out of interest how
Old is your daughter?

splasheeny Sat 22-Feb-14 14:54:01

I already know that dd is not invited.

Supercosy Sat 22-Feb-14 14:54:12

I think I would probably explain the situation as best I could to my friend but not actually ask and see what she says. You have plenty of perfectly reasonable excuses not to go....well not excuses, valid reasons!

Mim78 Sat 22-Feb-14 14:55:33

I think it depends on the personality of the friend hoe exactly you deal with this, but definitely don't feel obliged to go without her.

I would say "sorry I can't come because I can't get childcare and I want to be with dd on her birthday". If she doesn't want dd to come then she won't offer for her to. If it is fine she will offer.

splasheeny Sat 22-Feb-14 14:56:17

Inca she is 3, and will be 4 the weekend of the wedding. So I think she is old enough to behave at a wedding, but too young to be without both her parents for a weekend. (I realize many people do leave children of that age, but its not something I feel personally comfortable with)

Tweasels Sat 22-Feb-14 14:58:08

Would you gave found a solution if she'd asked you to be bridesmaid?

Tweasels Sat 22-Feb-14 14:58:21

have

cookiemonster5678 Sat 22-Feb-14 14:58:41

You would not be unreasonable to ask in the circumstances, its your daughter not a exactly a stranger. It doesn't hurt to ask! Just explain about it being her birthday etc.

The worst that can happen is that she says no, in which case i personally would politely decline to be with my daughter. Its a good enough reason not to go.

If she says yes, great!

ilovesooty Sat 22-Feb-14 14:59:26

I think you should decline the invitation. It seems rude to ask if your daughter can come as the intention to include her was obviously not there in the first place.

splasheeny Sat 22-Feb-14 15:03:02

Tweasels the same issues would have been there. I would have hoped that families of the wedding party would have been invited if that was the case (is that not ettiquete?)

chunkythighs Sat 22-Feb-14 15:03:49

Not only do I think that the suggestion is unreasonable- I think it's outrageous. It's not your wedding OP. You are not paying for it. You already know your child is not invited- the clue is there. Why would you put your friend under pressure to invite your PFB?

Go, and leave your daughter behind, or decline- either way the world won't stoop turning on it's axis.

diddl Sat 22-Feb-14 15:03:51

I'm unsure tbh.

Rellies of mine asked if they could bring their GS.

I can't remember if they had accepted before they were asked to look after him & didn't want to let the parents down/miss a chance to see him iyswim.

We said yes as it was easily doable to add him.

He was older though, about 10.

chunkythighs Sat 22-Feb-14 15:04:12

stop

hootloop Sat 22-Feb-14 15:06:13

I would also just decline the invitation asking if she can be fitted in makes it awkward for the bride. As there will be a reason she wasn't invited in the first place.

YouAreTalkingRubbish Sat 22-Feb-14 15:07:20

If you ask for your DD to be invited then you could say that you are INSISTING on paying for her. Alternatively, I would just decline the invite.

I think the birthday issue wouldn't not bother me as it sounds like you could arrange things around the wedding if you wanted.

Tweasels Sat 22-Feb-14 15:08:10

I think just reply and say you are gutted you can't attend but you can't find a childcare solution. Combined with it being DD's birthday it would just be impossible. Puts the ball back in her court. If she wants you there, she'll invite DD, if she doesn't then she's not worth you worrying about.

If I knew one of my friends couldn't make my special event unless they brought their child, I'd accommodate them straight away.

squoosh Sat 22-Feb-14 15:08:27

I hardly think it's 'outrageous' to ask. As long as you're happy to accept with good grace if she says no well then I don't see the problem in asking.

chunkythighs Sat 22-Feb-14 15:11:01

Well squoosh you are not coming to my wedding! that includes your husband, children neighbours and friends!

Seriously, though, the request would put the bride and groom in an awkward position. What if every guest had the same request?

MrsCampbellBlack Sat 22-Feb-14 15:11:45

So your daughter is clearly not invited so I don't see why you'd ask the bride if you can bring her.

As others have said either leave your DD behind or decline the invite nicely. If the bride asks why - just say you didn't want to leave your DD behind on her birthday weekend.

splasheeny Sat 22-Feb-14 15:11:53

It is interesting to see the difference in opinions (though no need to be rude!).

I am wondering what would be best. I would really like to go, and I don't want to make things difficult.

The combination of things in this wedding does make things really difficult though.

Morgause Sat 22-Feb-14 15:12:49

I'd politely decline, saying you don't want to be away from your DD on her birthday weekend.

Supercosy Sat 22-Feb-14 15:13:06

I hardly think the suggestion is "outrageous". OP has said she quite genuinely can't decide if it would be worse for the bride if she didn't come or if she said "Look I can't come because I can't leave Dd.....is there any chance she can come"? What if she declines and then, at a later date the bride says "Oh, was it just because of Dd, you should have said". In fact there is another thread on the go a the moment where an invitation states that a couple's children are not invited but if that stops the couple from attending then please call them to discuss.

boydonewrongagain Sat 22-Feb-14 15:13:10

Op why did you ask a wedding question on mumsnet there are so many wedding taboo's in the mumsnet world that just Dont exist in RL

Ask your friend if your daughter can come tell her she can sit on your knee share your meal and that its her birthday. A genuine normal person friend would not find this offensive or rude.

If she says no then it just shows she's not a very understanding friend so politely decline if you do go Dont give her cash as a gift as you'll be banned from mumsnet forever more

squoosh Sat 22-Feb-14 15:13:35

Well it's highly unlikely that every guest will have the same request. She asks, the bride says yes or no. What's the big deal? I'd hope a close friend of mine would feel comfortable telling me the reasons they were having difficulty attending

SantasLittleMonkeyButler Sat 22-Feb-14 15:13:48

Of course it would be OK to ask! If she is a truly good friend & has not decided on a child-free wedding then just explain to her that it is your DD's birthday & you have a dilemma as you would hate to miss your friend's big day, but also cannot miss your own DD's birthday.

She might say no, she might say yes. But it is certainly OK to ask.

splasheeny Sat 22-Feb-14 15:14:44

Lol boy thank you for that.

There is no cash request as yet!

VeryStressedMum Sat 22-Feb-14 15:14:51

Have you actually said you're going to the wedding but now want to ask if your dd can go? Because if a wedding fell on one of my dc birthday and they weren't invited I wouldn't accept the invitation because I'd think it's important to be with them on their birthdays.

quietbatperson Sat 22-Feb-14 15:15:27

She may well be mortified that she has effectively asked you to dump your DD on her birthday. Talk to her. No-one on the internet knows her as well as you or how she is going to react, or whether she will think you are taking the piss. Communication is the key smile

everlong Sat 22-Feb-14 15:16:18

I'd ask. I wouldn't leave my 4 year old on their birthday.

splasheeny Sat 22-Feb-14 15:16:39

I agree that I don't others will have this request as we are at an age where friends don't have children. (I am a 'young' mum, at least in my social circle)

PuppyMonkey Sat 22-Feb-14 15:17:04

Just ring and tell her you'll have to decline and the reasons why and she might say DD can come after all. If not, well you have your answer.

Joysmum Sat 22-Feb-14 15:17:10

Why wouldn't you feel ok to phone and explain the situation and see if it could be possible? If she's a friend she'll try her best to accommodate and it might be doable, if not at least you've shown you really want to be a part of the day but understand it wasn't possible for them.

splasheeny Sat 22-Feb-14 15:17:36

I haven't RSVPed yet very.

alwaysneedaholiday Sat 22-Feb-14 15:18:06

I wouldn't leave my DD on her 4th birthday. Just politely decline on that basis. Don't ask if you can take her with you, it's not fair to put the bride in that position.

notso Sat 22-Feb-14 15:18:48

I would ring and say sorry you can't attend due to childcare issues. She will either say ok never mind or I really want you there bring DD.

I don't think you should ask outright and put her on the spot and I do think YABU thinking your DD won't need a chair and place setting I wouldn't want to sit next to a 4 yo sitting on someones knee and picking off their plate.

EBearhug Sat 22-Feb-14 15:19:48

If it's not a child-free wedding, then I don't think it's totally unreasonable to ask, but as she's clearly not invited, I would expect the answer to be no, and in that case, you just have to live with it. But you never know that someone else may not be able to make it, so there could be a spare place available.

Have you asked about local hotels, and whether any of them have childcare facilities? That might give a bit more flexibility over the different options you've got.

Notify Sat 22-Feb-14 15:21:51

I think you should phone you friend. Tell her you've spent ages thinking/worrying about it but you won't be able to come as you can't bring yourself to leave dd on her birthday.

Bride will either say she'll miss you but understands, have a tantrum or see what she can do to fit dd in.

Will she have already realised it's dd's birthday?

fwiw I don't think you should be offended about not being bridesmaid. Aren't bridesmaid usually unmarried?

AlfAlf Sat 22-Feb-14 15:25:43

In your position I would ask, I'd ask really nicely of course, but yes because the most simple solution is for you to bring her.
I'd maybe offer to pay for dd's meal in case costs are an issue.
It may also be that the venue can only accommodate a strictly limited number of guests and no more, in which case you need a new solution..

In the past when invited without DC's we have hired a babysitter at the hotel, so they still get to come away for the weekend with us but aren't at the wedding. This has worked out well.

RandomMess Sat 22-Feb-14 15:30:06

Yes I'd ask with the caveat of you understand if they can't accommodate dd and you won't be offended type of thing.

innisglas Sat 22-Feb-14 15:35:23

Some very good advice here, except for the idea that it would be outrageous to ask, I find that an outrageous comment. You are both good friends, If I were the bride I would be much more upset if you just said that you can't go because of your daughter's birthday than if you said what the real problem is.

Bunbaker Sat 22-Feb-14 15:35:28

"on mumsnet there are so many wedding taboo's in the mumsnet world that just Dont exist in RL"

So true. I have never been invited to a child free wedding, been sent a wedding list/cash request with an invitation, been told what to wear at a wedding, felt insulted that I have only been invited to an evening do, been invited to a wedding overseas etc.

I have never met any bridezillas in RL either.

Shenanagins Sat 22-Feb-14 15:36:09

I don't think its rude to ask but it depends on how you do it. If you explain the situation and tell her that you will not be offended if she says no. I had a couple who asked if they could bring their child to my child-free wedding as all their babysitters would also be there. We were horrified by putting them in this position as this as we hadn't even thought about this so of course they could bring their child.

WaitMonkey Sat 22-Feb-14 15:37:55

I'd decline. I couldn't leave a dc on a birthday.

Bunbaker Sat 22-Feb-14 15:42:14

It's the perennial problem of child free people not understanding how difficult it is to a) Get childcare and b) it feels to leave your child/ren for a weekend.

MollyHooper Sat 22-Feb-14 15:44:18

Just ring her, she's your mate!

The worst she can say is no.

SeaSickSal Sat 22-Feb-14 15:44:40

I would ask, but offer to cover the cost of a meal for her and any other sundry costs for her attending.

If you explain you're going to struggle to come and offer not to leave them out of pocket I really can't see why anybody would say no.

She probably doesn't realize it will be a problem and when she knows it will be will be happy to accommodate you. I doubt she will even take you up on the offer to pay for any associated costs.

One extra child's meal is not exactly going to leave the hotel struggling to cope is it?

Cobain Sat 22-Feb-14 15:57:04

I would decline on the basis of DD birthday and place the decision back on the bride and groom. I would not ask because even if they said yes in the back of my mind I would feel awkward not knowing if they really wanted to invite or I had pushed them into a corner.

tiggytape Sat 22-Feb-14 16:00:16

I really can't see why anybody would say no.

If she hasn't invited DD it might be due to:
1. money - some venues charge a fortune even for children's meals or charge per head regardless
2. space - she may be up to maximum numbers on the venue size
3. other children. If she invites DD there may be other guests who have arranged babysitters and who will be annoyed as a result. Maybe not all of their children are so well behaved or maybe there are lots of them
4. child / adult ration - it may not be a totally child free wedding but there is a big difference between having 2 nieces and nephews and having 20+ other children. It changes the whole event (some people think in a good way, some people prefer it is a mainly adult day with just a couple of children present)

There's no harm in raising it. It could be she doesn't mind at all. But you'd have to let her know that you are totally OK with her saying no and really mean it. If you won't be OK with her saying no then you should probably just decline.

eddielizzard Sat 22-Feb-14 16:04:25

well i'd tell her that as it's your dd's birthday, would it be possible for her to come, she'll sit on your lap and you'll provide her food. therefore no extra cost to the bride. you would still be making a huge effort to go.

if she declines i would make my excuses and not go.

i'm afraid my children are more important in my book.

BelleateSebastian Sat 22-Feb-14 16:13:03

Hi friend
we would love to come to your wedding but it's dd's birthday the same day and we can't leave her on her birthday, really sorry and next time you get married make sure it doesn't clash with any of our birthdays!
love from
Op

Dear Op
We didn't realise it was her birthday, please bring her, we didn't invite her originally as its family's dc only (otherwise we would be inundated with children) but we would love to see all of you.
love from
Bridetobe

OR

Dear Op
Thanks for letting us now, sorry you can't make it, hope dd has a lovely time, must catch up after the wedding.
love from
Bridetobe

There you go, sorted!!

Blu Sat 22-Feb-14 16:14:13

I would just call her (not text) and explain that you are in a bit of a pickle over it, because it is her b'day and because there is no one you feel able to leave her with for the weekend, and say you'll let her know in a week or so whether or not you have found a solution.

Say 'and have a think and let me know over the next couple of days if there is any elasticity in no extra children at the wedding, because that would dissolve all my dilemmas' because then you are asking, but not putting her on the spot. And then if she doesn't tell you you can take your dd, then decline the invitation next weekend.

BrianTheMole Sat 22-Feb-14 16:15:43

I would rather one of my friends asked me if they could bring their dc rather than decline the invite on the assumption that they couldn't. There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking.

TestingTestingWonTooFree Sat 22-Feb-14 16:18:01

I don't think there's any need to ask. Politely dco

TestingTestingWonTooFree Sat 22-Feb-14 16:18:48

I don't think there's any need to ask. Politely declining and explaining why allows the B&G to change their minds if they want but without putting them under any pressure.

perfectstorm Sat 22-Feb-14 16:19:10

I agree that calling her is the right thing to do. If it isn't a childfree wedding then it's probably a cost issue that has meant kids aren't asked, or a space one. Either way, if you mention it's your dd's birthday so you can't really leave her, and you appreciate it may be impossible but if your paying for her meal etc would make it easier then you'll gladly come, but otherwise sadly you can't, I think that's fair enough.

Ordinarily I'd think this was really rude, but given the bride was your own bridesmaid so you're presumably old and good friends, and it's your (very young, too) child's birthday, then I think explaining and offering to meet the costs, and then seeing what she says, is wise. I also agree you can't leave a small child alone on their birthday. And usually I have no patience with people demanding their kids get invites. This is a rather unique situation, what with the dates, I think.

BobPatSamandIgglePiggle Sat 22-Feb-14 16:21:39

Hi op - has she expressly said your dd is not invited pr given a specific reason?

Do you have a partner? Are they invited?

Just a thought but is the wedding anywhere near somewhere child special - peppa pig world or somewhere? If you really want to go and your dd isnt allowed could you turn it into a birthday weekend where you nip to the wedding, dp entetains dd then you all do something birthday treat related?

HappyMummyOfOne Sat 22-Feb-14 16:21:41

I'd decline too saying you dont want to miss your daughters birthday.

It the brides day and if they choose to exclude sone guests then they do on the basis that some wont go. I disagree with only inviting part of the family but brides can get very funny when planning their day.

Upto you if you ask but i personally wouldnt but then neither do i like the bringing of uninvited children to parties yet lots on MN to this and see no problem with it.

eeetheygrowupsofast Sat 22-Feb-14 16:24:41

I don't actually think calling is a good idea. It puts people on the spot.

Email gives her a chance to have a think.

I do think it's rude to ask if a partner or child can come. Most people have events/work/childcare to juggle too, imagine if everyone asked. But saying that, I do see your predicament.

I'd email really nicely and say 'Oh gosh I'm so sorry but it's dd's birthday so I can't make it etc'. If she doesn't invite her then leave it at that.

bodybooboo Sat 22-Feb-14 16:26:33

oh sod that. I wouldn't leave one of my kids on their birthday for a wedding.

decline and say why.

GoldenBeagle Sat 22-Feb-14 16:50:30

If she is a good friend that you talk to often I would call her and chat to her about it.

I doesn't have to put her on the post at all, there are suggestions as to how to avoid that.

Or send a cheerful e mail like Belleatesebastian suggests.

Flappingandflying Sat 22-Feb-14 17:12:50

Won't it be rather dull for your daughter going to a wedding (which even from an adult's view can be borring, let alone a child's where you have to be quiet and be good) on her birthday? Four is really the first birthday that they really can look forward to and enjoy and want presents and a party. Much over excitement, squeeling and world centred around 'me' not going to a really boring wedding where ok there's a nice dress but loads of borring grown ups talking...

Friendsupport Sat 22-Feb-14 17:30:56

Why do people want to bring young children to non family weddings?

FamiliesShareGerms Sat 22-Feb-14 17:35:15

Perhaps you could decline the invite and set out your reasons in a short poem wink

ilovecolinfirth Sat 22-Feb-14 17:36:16

I don't know what the answer is, but the same thing happened to me on my son's 2nd birthday. The invite made it clear that he wasn't invited 'thank you for understanding that children are not invited'. I declined graciously explaining we had no child care and that it was his birthday. I never heard from her again, even when I attempted to contact sad this was 3 years ago.

Well it is an invite, not a summons. Simply decide whether you want to go withoutyour dd or not at all.

If you want, pop a note in with the RSVP saying that yousadly will have to decline asiit is your dds birthday so just wouldnt feel right coming away without her.

Send a nice wedding card on the day

DeWe Sat 22-Feb-14 17:47:47

I don't think it's fair to ask, if she has made it clear that she isn't invited.

From the point of view of someone who was put in that situation.
Not a wedding, but we were having a 10th anniversary evening drinks and nibbles. After long discussions we decided no children (other than our own) for the following reasons:
1. Space: small house, everyone we were asking had at least 2 children, so we'd have had to not invite some people.
2. Children's behaviour: some of those children were at the run round stage. We knew that if we had children we would be at risk of the food flying, and we would have a lot of mess (probably in the dc's rooms) to tidy up afterwards.
3. 3yo was probably the youngest age, up to teenage. It was a sit around and chat over snacks, not fun for children.
4. We didn't want to have to provide more children style snacks, or have children asking "what else is there".

That afternoon as we were getting ready, we had a phone call from one who said "I'm so looking forward to coming, but I'll have to bring the dc, as I can't find a babysitter?".
This put us in a very awkward position as in all honesty her dc had featured very highly on the number 2 and also 4. We also had the awkward situation where others commented about those children being there when they were paying out for babysitters.

If she'd sent us a quick text saying "sorry can't make it, babysitter let me down" we'd probably have said bring them, and we'd have felt generous in offering, whereas we felt painted into a corner.

What I would do in your situation is simply move your dd's birthday as party and everything is weekend before anyway. Tell her it's an official one, but I'm sure I could have persuaded any of my 3dc that was fine. But if you don't want to do that, then a polite email saying you're sorry you can't make it as you can't leave your dd that weekend means that if she is happy to invite your dd then she can without feeling under pressure.

Out of interest though, what would you have done if you had been a bridesmaid? Because you wouldn't be able to take her and be a bridesmaid unless there was someone else coming who would look after her during the ceremony.

squoosh Sat 22-Feb-14 17:50:11

Nonsense. Of course it's fair to ask.

Viviennemary Sat 22-Feb-14 17:52:01

The trouble is that other people probably have children than haven't been invited. And if she lets your DD come then those others might be annoyed. So I don't think it's fair to ask but you could if you want to. Just don't go if you'd rather not go with your daughter. Because this would be quite reasonable.

truelymadlysleepy Sat 22-Feb-14 17:52:14

Sorry, but I don't think you should ask. If she'd wanted you DD at the wedding she'd have invited her and you'll just put her in a tricky situation.

Have the birthday party on another day and find some childcare.
IMO weddings without DC are much more fun.

Morgause Sat 22-Feb-14 17:53:47

Of course it isn't fair to ask. Puts the bride in a horrible situation. Very bad manners to propose to invite yourself or an extra guest.

twofalls Sat 22-Feb-14 17:54:22

Phone her. Say you would love to come but can't leave DD as childcare is a problem and its her birthday so you will have to decline. She will either invite your dd or not. If not then you kind of know where you stand with her.

This is a good friend. Not a distant relative.

squoosh Sat 22-Feb-14 17:55:21

I wouldn't have the birthday on a different day, no chance. If you don't feel you can ask well then I'd just decline the invitation.

twofalls Sat 22-Feb-14 18:02:23

Actually, I wouldn't phone. I would email. Gives her chance to think it over.

HellomynameisIcklePickle Sat 22-Feb-14 18:02:27

Hmm, in your situation I wouldn't ask - I would decline the invite.

If asked why I would say I couldn't sort out childcare and see how the conversation progresses.

JiminyCricket Sat 22-Feb-14 18:07:55

I had the exact same situation, only dd was 1, and the wedding was childfree. I have always regretted not openly talking to them about the problem, and always regretted not going...however, the reason I didn't ring them is because I know how rude it can seem when you are planning a wedding and everyone is being a pain. I think in the situation now I would ring and explain that I can't leave dd, so regret I can't come, hoping that they offer for her to come, but not expecting it. I might ring the brides mother (who is a good friend). At least if you explain why you are declining, even if they think it is unreasonable now, they might understand in a few years time when they find themselves in similar dilemmas. Sometimes these things just don't work out, they have to decide who to invite and inviting you dd might cause problems with other uninvited children and increase numbers too much (this is why my friends wedding was childfree, only because everyone they knew had kids so couldn't draw the line. Just make sure your friend knows you do care - we took the bride and groom out to dinner before the wedding to wish them luck.

Biscuitsneeded Sat 22-Feb-14 18:11:19

Do you have a DH? How about you, he and daughter all go off to hotel near wedding, DD wakes up with you on her birthday and has presents etc. Then she and Daddy go and do something nice nearby (pre-researched) and you go to the ceremony. Then you zip off, meet DH and daughter for birthday tea, DD goes to bed and hotel gets a baby sitter for you, and you and DH head back for the evening do.

Then your answer to your friend is along the lines of we'd love to come, unfortunately it's DD's birthday and we wouldn't feel right leaving her even if we could get childcare for the weekend as she is now old enough to know when her birthday is, so we'll be bringing her to the hotel and we will spend as much of the day as we possibly can with you.

Hopefully at this point friend will feel sorry for DD and invite her, but if not you've got a do-able Plan B.

WHY though do childless people never understand that most parents can't just leave their children for an entire weekend in order to attend a child-free wedding in a far flung place!!

Marcelinewhyareyousomean Sat 22-Feb-14 18:12:45

It's OK to ask, it's OK for her to say no.

londonrach Sat 22-Feb-14 18:15:45

Yabvu. My bridemaid was such a sweet girl she allowed one of the guests to turn up with two univited girls dressed as bridesmaids. Luckily everyone was shocked and ignored her but she was upset they didnt get special children meals like the invited children who were members of the family not guests. Either go on your own or give your apologies. Do not ask the poor bride re your daughter as if shes sweet person she say yes despite meaning no.

verdiletta Sat 22-Feb-14 18:16:11

Good suggestion from biscuitsneeded - however, a friend close enough to be your bridesmaid shouldn't be the subject of an etiquette dilemma. Just call her and explain that you'd love to be there, but this is the problem.

squoosh Sat 22-Feb-14 18:19:25

'Luckily everyone was shocked and ignored her'

Well don't you sound like a pleasant bunch!

meganorks Sat 22-Feb-14 18:20:19

I would ask. I would rather someone did that for my wedding than didn't come. If she says no then graciously decline the invitation..

squoosh Sat 22-Feb-14 18:21:05

'a friend close enough to be your bridesmaid shouldn't be the subject of an etiquette dilemma'

Exactly! As she's a close friend I'm a bit baffled why people are so shocked at you having a conversation with her.

sheeplikessleep Sat 22-Feb-14 18:25:27

I agree with everyone, just say you are very sorry and disappointed, but you can't come, because it is your daughters birthday and you will struggle to find childcare anyway. That leaves the ball in her court to offer if she wants. No way would I ask, if your dd hasn't been included on invite.

truelymadlysleepy Sat 22-Feb-14 18:27:55

But surely if she's a close enough friend she'd have invited your DD? I suspect numbers are tight and if she invites one child she'll feel she has to invite lots of others.
Also, is a wedding the best way to celebrate a 4th birthday?

Joysmum Sat 22-Feb-14 18:31:54

If you are contacting and taking the line of declining due to DD birthday, that doesn't tell your friend that you'd like to go if you could take your daughter.

Why is it such a bad thing to phone/text/email/write and say you'd have lived to have come if you could have bought her as you didn't want to be without her on her birthday.

I'd go with - unfortunatley have to decline invite for day as it is dd's birthday, however we will ALL come to watch the ceremony/service as i want to see my bestest bud married. She then has the opportunity to invite dd to the reception, and you get to see your friend married and so show you care. And if she shows off about you taking dd to the ceremony, that ANYONE can legally attend, then you can clearly see where her priorities lie.

happybubblebrain Sat 22-Feb-14 18:39:28

I would just decline.

Why are wedding always such a pain in the bum? And an expensive pain in the bum for everyone attending.

And if two people decide they love each other and want to get married then hip hip hurray for them, but do it somewhere easy to get to, allow those who have children to bring their children and don't expect �* gifts.

happybubblebrain Sat 22-Feb-14 18:40:05

*expensive gifts.

OddFodd Sat 22-Feb-14 18:40:58

Your very good friend knows you have a child. She's not invited. Why would you ask if you can bring her? I'm assuming you're a single parent as am I.

I sometimes get invited to childfree events but 9 times out of 10, I can't go. I assume that people that invite me alone realise that.

expatinscotland Sat 22-Feb-14 18:44:37

She can't go to just the ceremony as it's in the middle of nowhere.

Pepperglitter Sat 22-Feb-14 18:51:54

I would ask her. A child's meal will cost about £12 and she can probably be squeezed onto your table between your dh and you with no change of table plan. If she is a true friend and realises it is hard for you to leave her logistically I can't see the problem ( as the wedding isn't child free anyway).

Ask and see what she says. She probably didn't invite her as she thoight you'd have a better time child free!

We've had similar recently, my nephews wedding, myself and husband invited evening only and kids not included - it's a numbers issue. Wedding is an hour and a half away, all the rooms in the hotel it is being held in are for wedding party only. We don't have other family/friends that we could leave them with. We've declined saying that the logistics don't work for us and wish them a wonderful day. It would have been nice to go but I understand why we can't.

I'd understand that as a reason to not go in general, but if she can make it if the child were invited, stay away for the weekend etc, then why not just (if she want to go badly, which im assuming she does if its a close enough friend to be her bridesmaid) then still go for the weekend, stay in a hotel, but just without going to the reception? If a friend of mine made it clear they would go to that much trouble to be able to witness my marriage, i'd do my best to find space for their child.

Somersetlady Sat 22-Feb-14 19:06:26

I have been the bride in this situation!

I just tried to find the email that i was sent by the lady in question who couldn't leave cupcake she actually called her cupcake rather than her real name in email who was two for the day but i cant locate it (it was 3 years ago and i remember it as got the fear writing back how to say no thank you if we wanted cupcake--or any other child-- to attend our wedding we would have invited them without offending Cupcakes mum)

I wrote back and said thats a shame but thank you for letting us know and we look forward to catching up another time after the wedding.

Forget money and space for just a moment and think that wedding day is about what the bride and groom want and who they want to share their day with. Imagine you have over 200 people at your wedding if just one in ten people were selfish enough to put pressure on you over their pfbs and siblings attending you could end up with 20kids there before you know it. None of which you wanted.

If she was close to you still it might be a different situation I also imagine you would have discussed it being your dds birthday when she told you the date.

If i were you i would write isn't this how you are supposed to rsvp unless directed otherwise? or email (not text or phone) saying thank you so much for the invitation I hope you both have a wonderful day but as it's dds birthday I want to be with her on this special day. IF the brides really wants you at the wedding then she has time to consider her options and invite dd if she wishes. IF she doesn't invite dd then it's maybe time to accept you have drifted apart in your friendship and it's not as important to your friend that you attend her wedding as it is to you.

bigboobsbertha Sat 22-Feb-14 19:23:26

Just turn up with kid, they arent gonna kick you out are they, and if they do, go to the newspapers and have a photo taken with a sad face

twofalls Sat 22-Feb-14 19:37:04

Somerset, op had bride as her bridesmaid. That's pretty close I would say. We had a child free wedding but if anyone hasn't been able to come because of lack of childcare of course we would have let them bring their dc (there would have been. 9 1 year olds so I am quite glad they all found sitters!!).

Nanny0gg Sat 22-Feb-14 19:41:55

TBH, if you were close enough that she was your only bridesmaid, why does she not know your DD's birthday? I assume it's because you're not that close any more.

In which case, I don't think you can ask. Just explain why when you decline, and if she wants you there she will change the arrangements.

whatever5 Sat 22-Feb-14 19:57:23

I wouldn't ask her. I would just decline the invitation and let her know that it's because it's your dd's birthday so you can't leave her for the day. She will either suggest that you bring your dd as well or she won't...

I wouldn't ask her. I would just decline the invitation and let her know that it's because it's your dd's birthday so you can't leave her for the day. She will either suggest that you bring your dd as well or she won't... This!

Somersetlady Sat 22-Feb-14 20:05:43

twofalls the OP says herself she doesn't really see the bride anymore although they do stay in touch. If they were still close i imagine the bride would know the date of the child's birthday after the 3 previous years in which she would have probably seen her and probably bought her a present

All I am saying was if the bride considers the OP to be a close friend then one of the below might at least apply:
1. She would have been asked to be bridesmaid
2. She might even have asked the dd to be flower girl
3. She would have invited the dd to the wedding
4. She would have known the wedding fell on or around the dd birthday
5. She would have got the birthday information when chatting to the OP over the course of the last year or so however long she has been planning the wedding and extended an invitation to the dd accordingly.

I am one of those for whom not inviting children to our wedding had nothing to with money or space it was simply a matter of choice!

SpottyDottie Sat 22-Feb-14 20:05:53

For me, it's your DDs birthday weekend. She isn't invited. I know where I'd be.

Cigarettesandsmirnoff Sat 22-Feb-14 20:07:29

Really don't get the 'it's rude to ask if your dd can come' comments. I wouldn't give a rats arse who I asked if my child could come. Would email

Hi friend, is there enough room for dd to come?

If the response was NO , I would email back

Ok no problem. Child care is gonna be a problem and it's her birthday so I'm just going to have to send all my love and best wishes for the day.

If it's not a child free wedding and my child wasn't invited , I wouldn't go tbh.

WaitMonkey Sat 22-Feb-14 20:17:46

Have you decided what your going to do ?

MorrisZapp Sat 22-Feb-14 20:23:18

I don't get the hand wringing. If your DDs birthday is too special to sack off for a wedding (fully understandable) then isn't it also too special to celebrate by attending somebody else's mainly grown up celebration?

Why would you choose to celebrate a little ones birthday at a wedding? And if I was the bride reading that I'd be thinking oh shit oh shit, am I supposed to provide cake etc for the birthday girl. I'd be in knots over what was expected.

It's a little ones birthday, so you can't go.

JockTamsonsBairns Sat 22-Feb-14 20:36:39

I've had an almost identical situation. Some years ago, I got a wedding invite from a close friend which coincided with my Dd's 4th birthday (15th of the month). It was a child free wedding which I very much wanted to attend. We celebrated Dd's birthday on the 14th, cake, presents and all, and didn't mention to her at all that it wasn't the day of her birthday, she was too little to read the calendar or know the difference. Got up on the Saturday the 15th, got ready for the wedding, dropped Dc's at granny's where she had another wee celebration, and we went off to the wedding.

pluCaChange Sat 22-Feb-14 21:03:46

The very closeness of the relationship means it's unfair pressure to ask if DD can come. After all, she's probably got parents and ILs trying to get their friends in as well (I think it's a generstional thing). My DM was initially very pissed off that we wete inviting children to ours, thinking they would take up spaces for her chosen guests. Then we had probkemd eith yhe venue itself. Not to mention other people asking for all sorts of thinfs, inclufing accommodation, airoort transfers, etc.

Sillylass79 Sat 22-Feb-14 21:03:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pluCaChange Sat 22-Feb-14 21:07:24

Apologies for all those appalling typos!

Anyway, didn't you say you might not even get time off work?

It sounds as though it woukd be stressful for you and for her (and possibly DD) to organise attending, so just give up on this one so as not to make anyone unhappy!

OddFodd Sat 22-Feb-14 21:23:51

Sillylass - this isn't a tiny breastfed baby. OP's DD is nearly 4. So it's inconceivable that the bride has forgotten about her.

I think it would be incredibly rude and putting the bride and groom in a really difficult situation to ask to bring her. They know that the OP has a nearly school aged child and have explicitly excluded her. Why on earth does anyone think it's okay to challenge that? On that basis, I could aslk to bring my elderly mum who's staying with me? Or John down the road who loves a good knees up?

The invitation is not for the OP and her child, it's for the OP. She either finds someone to look after her child or she doesn't go. The whole birthday thing is a red herring/separate issue.

NiceTabard Sat 22-Feb-14 21:28:27

Ah this is interesting.

I had read a lot of MN threads before the following.

One time, an invitation to one of DH best friends, DD2 was very small. He text (on my prompting because then MN advice was to ASK! Mn advice is seemingly changeable). His friend did not reply. we took that to mean no so (as I was BF although DD2 not tiny) decided to go along for a bit etc.

When we got there, there were loads of children running around and everyone kept coming up saying "oh did you decide not to bring your children" including the happy couple confused and it had been a massive PITA to sort the childcare and we had to leave really early and it was just awful and I burst into tears outside blush

Second time, it was similar. Again, me and DH named on invite. Children were older. MN advice in general was (as on this thread) Don't Ask. So we didn't. Made all the arrangements etc and again were met by the happy couple saying "oh! where are the kids?" as loads of children ran around cheerfully.

We also weren't aware that the bar was cash only and we were miles from anywhere so made do on table water.

So.

Personally, I say, ask. Who knows what is going on in people's heads? If she's not invited and that is definite then you can decline.

If people were more straightforward it would really help. In everything, frankly. I can;t be doing with all this victorian well if it says this it means that and you are only going to know that if you read the right book in 1986 or whatever the fuck it is.

Good luck smile

BTW declining is fine, if she is genuine that it's you alone who can go.

Sillylass79 Sat 22-Feb-14 21:29:30

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KeepCalmAndLOLKittens Sat 22-Feb-14 21:48:29

It will be my DD's 4th birthday next week. The day is very special as an anniversary to me (I like to spend some quiet time just reminiscing around the time of her birth) and she is old enough to be really excited and to want to celebrate.

I wouldn't be away from DD on her birthday and neither would I want her to spend the day stuck at a wedding in the middle of nowhere on her best behaviour. I'd simply decline the invitation.

KeepCalmAndLOLKittens Sat 22-Feb-14 21:50:24

The whole birthday thing is a red herring/separate issue. I think the same! but about the wedding.

thenamestheyareachanging Sat 22-Feb-14 22:08:28

I wouldn't want to go on one of my children's birthday, and tbh even if they were invited, i'd want that day to be special, just for them, and about them. Even if they didn't know it was their birthday, I'd know. So I'd decline, I think a close friend would understand, and if we weren't close, I wouldn't care.

I'd ask, when we got married some friends were in the same position and obviously we let them bring the child. It didn't cost much more and it we would have hated for them to miss the wedding. The only reason we didn't invite children in the first place was because of limited numbers at the venue.

girliefriend Sat 22-Feb-14 22:22:16

I personally wouldn't want to be away on my dds bday, if its a close friend I would ring her and talk to her about it.

At the end of the day your dd should come first, if she is a good friend she will understand that.

TheresLotsOfFarmyardAnimals Sat 22-Feb-14 22:27:15

We had 3 requests for plus ones (2 recent gfs and one baby).

We said yes. Numbers were fine and we valued our friends enjoyment of our wedding day and wanted to celebrate with them.

We asked as ds was to be 6 weeks old. They said yes initially then uninvited us.

savingupforanother Sat 22-Feb-14 22:43:28

As people have said, say you can't come as it is DD's birthday, then they have the chance to also invite DD if they feel they want to have you there. Good suggestion to email so they are not put on the spot immediately. Also to plan an outing somewhere nearby for DD so she gets a birthday event that weekend too.

MrsMook Sat 22-Feb-14 22:50:46

We initially didn't invite children of friends for space reasons, but as RSVPs came back were able to accommodate people that had logistical difficulties going child free. No harm in asking.

YouAreTalkingRubbish Sat 22-Feb-14 22:56:34

If I were the bride and groom and you dropped me an email saying you were unable to come because it was your DDs birthday it wouldn't cross my mind to invite her. However, if you said it was because you couldn't get childcare then I might.

I would just delay the birthday celebrations. I don't see it as a big deal at all.

Jux Sun 23-Feb-14 00:22:39

If I were the bride I'd be fine if you asked. Depending upon the reason why I hadn't invited your dd in the first place, I would probably invite her as soon as I knew it was her birthday.

hippo123 Sun 23-Feb-14 08:29:41

Just decline, if she wants to know why you can tell her. I had a child free wedding, other than my own and close families. I simply didn't want a load of snotty kids there who I neither knew very well, or in some cases liked. Not only would it of cost more money it would have totally of changed the atmosphere of the wedding. I wanted people to be able to have a drink and a laugh, not worry about saying / doing something that might offend the parents of a pfb on the next table with most parents disappearing at 7/8 pm so their kids can go to bed. If she wanted to invite your dd she would have. To directly ask her to is very rude.

This is plain weird...

Just bloody ring her up and ask! Why don't people who profess to be friends y'know actually TALK on mn?!

She will either say yes or no. Does dd want to go? Tbh that would decide for me anyway.

ShoeWhore Sun 23-Feb-14 08:46:17

We had a similar situation - wedding on ds's birthday. We celebrated his birthday a day early and went to the wedding. All sorted.

I suspect the real issue here is that you are upset about not being so close to your friend any more OP? I do empathise, it sounds hurtful.

RafflesWay Sun 23-Feb-14 08:52:18

Tbh if I was the op I would be wondering how much the couple wanted us there anyway? (just call me cynical.) op and bride were so close that bride to be was op's ONLY bridesmaid at her wedding so I would have thought that in return OP should be one of the more desired guests at this wedding. Bride to be knows op has a very young dd - would be very surprised to hear bride to be isn't aware it is op's dd's birthday as surely if she is such a good friend she has at least sent a card in the past. The wedding isn't child free so OP obviously isn't being treated as a highly desirable guest with dd not being invited. Sorry but if it was me I would be feeling a little let down and certainly would not leave dd on her birthday to attend a wedding of someone who doesn't feel - despite the extra special manner in which they were treated at my wedding - obviously doesn't feel the need to return the compliment in any way. It probably isn't the modern way of thinking but I would just politely decline the invitation, wish them all the best etc., send a nice card and gift but gradually "lose" this "friend."

pussycatdoll Sun 23-Feb-14 08:58:54

and she can probably be squeezed onto your table between your dh and you with no change of table plan

Do people really think it's that simple??

apermanentheadache Sun 23-Feb-14 09:20:23

Pussycatdoll, why on earth should it not be that simple??

I find many of the responses on this thread absolutely bizarre. In what world would you leave a four year old on their birthday to go to a wedding? It's just a wedding.

OP, of course you would not be unreasonable to say you can't come as it is your DD'S birthday. Ball is then in bride/ groom's court. If they don't offer to host your DD then fine, you know where you stand.

Hope you find a solution.

apermanentheadache Sun 23-Feb-14 09:24:01

I loathe the preciousness around weddings, the "it's all about meeeeeee", bridezilla-type sentiment. It stinks.

diddl Sun 23-Feb-14 09:32:20

If I was told that someone couldn't come due to child's bday, I would assume that there was a party/trip for the child so wouldn't invite.

If told due to no childcare then I might invite depending on the situation re venue/numbers etc.

LucyLasticBand Sun 23-Feb-14 09:32:21

does your daughter actually know the date of her birthday?
can't you just celebrate her brithday on the friday or the monday ?

otherwise, yes, take her tothe wedding if you want.

PuppyMonkey Sun 23-Feb-14 09:59:18

Hippo, I bet all the "snotty kids" who didn't get an invitation to your perfect wedding were devastated.hmm

lljkk Sun 23-Feb-14 10:11:19

all this angst is silly, explain the problem and nicely ask if she can come to make things easier.

OTheHugeManatee Sun 23-Feb-14 10:12:50

I think YABU to ask, if she's made it clear your DD isn't invited. It just seems pushy and a bit PFB.

You have two options:

1 - Decline, explaining why
2 - Celebrate your DD's birthday the day before or after. At 4 she won't be able to read the calendar and will be one the wiser.

Personally I'd go for option 2.

EmmaGellerGreen Sun 23-Feb-14 10:21:55

Good grief, do you actually know the bride any more? If you do, just pick up the phone and ask her. How can this be difficult?

Bunbaker Sun 23-Feb-14 10:23:58

You sound a bundle of laughs hippo. and it's have, not of

pussycatdoll Sun 23-Feb-14 10:28:05

Apermanentgeadache - because an extra chair might not fit in
Because the bride & groom might not want to pay for an extra meal
Because the bride & groom don't want kids at their wedding
Because the other people on the table might be irritated that a 4 year old has been squeezed in but they've had to arrange complicated babysitting shenigans for their own children

Cigarettesandsmirnoff Sun 23-Feb-14 10:33:30

I can't see the problem if other kids are invited. I was at one over the weekend and there was lots of kids running around. Jesus it where little lads perfect the skidding on your knees dance!

Cigarettesandsmirnoff Sun 23-Feb-14 10:33:51

its !!!

When I had my wedding, I worked out who I wanted there, including kids, and then picked a venue/type of wedding where I could afford to accommodate everyone. That however was my choice. Everyone else is entitled to decide what they want to do/can afford for theirs whether I like it or not.

Your friend has clearly decided that she is only inviting immediate family children. You either accept that and make arrangements for your daughter, or you decide not to go.

I have had to turn down two weddings in recent times as my children weren't invited and it wasn't possible for us to go without them. It doesn't make me happy but that's just the way it is. Our lack of childcare is not their problem.

I have to say though that if I found out that others were allowed to bring their children because we had declined our invite for exactly that reason, I would be upset, but again there is nothing I could do about it and it is their choice.

waterrat Sun 23-Feb-14 13:16:52

It is pAssive aggressive and just weird to say you can't come in the hope that she will then offer an invite

Child care isn't actually a problem - so you should go if you want to - and if I was a bride I would really hope someone would ask me rather than decline without explanation of a real problem.

If you just say no without asking that may be the end of your friendship as she coul be hurt by that.

I think it's so weird that people are saying you should just not go - politely ask while making clear you don't mind if she says no - do it by email so she isn't put on the spot -and attend like a good friend either way

expatinscotland Sun 23-Feb-14 13:19:15

So ironic, a child free wedding, with the bride's kids there.

2rebecca Sun 23-Feb-14 13:24:09

I'd ask. If a friend of mine asked if she could bring her daughter because it was her bithday then I'd do my best to fit her in. I suspect if I'd been invited to a wedding on either of my kids' birthdays at age 4 and been told they couldn't come I'd have declined the invite. It's just an invitation not a court summons and I think that if people try and split up families for their social occasions then they have to accept some families choose not to go.

apermanentheadache Sun 23-Feb-14 14:22:32

Why the bloody hell should the Op attend "like a good friend" if it's her child's birthday?? Children should come first, not some poxy wedding of a friend with dubious loyalties to OP, IMO.

Somersetlady Sun 23-Feb-14 14:34:49

apermanentheadache I loathe the preciousness around people who think everything should revolve around their PFBs the "it's all about my kids", mummy type sentiment. It stinks.

Somersetlady Sun 23-Feb-14 14:38:07

aper I also agree with your second statement if she doesn't want to attend without her dc then just decline! Don't put the bride on the spot to change her wedding plans and invitees to suit the OPs wishes!

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 14:50:54

DH and I declined an evening only invite as Baby DS wasn't invited and I told the Bride we had no one to have him. She said bring him then. I was a bit confused as to why he wasn't on the invite if he was allowed to go.

If everyone just knew that if your name isn't on the invite then you aren't invited then it would make life easier.

apermanentheadache Sun 23-Feb-14 14:56:21

I don't think it's all about my kids and the world should revolve around them. I have a very close group of friends who know they can rely on me, and me on them. I don't take them for granted. I'd just never be prepared to leave either of my children overnight on their birthday.

Bearbehind Sun 23-Feb-14 15:04:13

I know it been said before but I completely agree that if your bridesmaid can't even remember the date of your daughters birthday (it's only 4 years fgs), hasn't asked you to be bridesmaid and doesn't want your child to attend a wedding where other children will be present, then she clearly doesn't see the friendship the way you do.

FamiliesShareGerms Sun 23-Feb-14 15:06:12

I'm willing to say that I would leave my children on their birthday, especially for a good friend's wedding. Hopefully they would only get married once, but my children will have loads of birthdays. Just move the party etc forward or back a few days if you really want to go to the wedding.

FamiliesShareGerms Sun 23-Feb-14 15:08:53

Has anyone said that the bride has forgotten the OP's daughter's birthday? I wasn't aware that in setting the date couples are also supposed to check that their wedding doesn't clash with anyone's birthday.

Bearbehind Sun 23-Feb-14 15:19:21

Surely when planning your wedding if the date was that of someone you were bridesmaid to's daughter it would ring a bell and you'd mention it at some point prior to the wedding.

I think the OP is as much to blame if that's the right phrase, if one on my bridesmaids told me her wedding date and it was my daughters birthday I'd have said 'ooh, that's dd's birthday too' or something. It doesn't sound like they talk very much.

Writerwannabe83 Sun 23-Feb-14 15:23:09

A difficult situation...

When I got married we only had one child there and that was only because she was 11 and family. We didn't include any of our friend's children on the invites due to space and cost issues. None of our friends minded and they all still came - Weddings I imagine are quite dull for children and I imagine some parents would rather relax and enjoy themselves as opposed to worrying what the child was up to. My own nice and nephew didn't come to my Wedding (although I wanted them there) as my sister said she'd prefer to come without them!!

Definitely don't ask your friend if your DD can come - if they'd had wanted to include her then they would have done. The B&G will have their reasons as to why she wasn't included and to make them feel bad for that or put them under pressure to change their mind is poor form.

However - why would you want to make your daughter spend her birthday at a Wedding?? Surely there are a 101 other things she'd rather do???? Either don't go to the Wedding and have a lovely time with your daughter, or go to the Wedding without her and then celebrate her birthday on another day.

If your concern is about making sure your daughter's birthday is a special day then dragging her to someone's Wedding probably isn't the right way to go.....

Somersetlady Sun 23-Feb-14 15:23:35

aper but what you actually said was:

I loathe the preciousness around weddings, the "it's all about meeeeeee", bridezilla-type sentiment. It stinks.

Weddings are generally about the bride and groom. If the OP wants to spend the birthday day/ evening with her daughter then she should just get on and do this. It's the entitlement of thinking it's acceptable to request an extra invite for anybody that is bad from in mho.

soverylucky Sun 23-Feb-14 15:27:37

Personally I hate child free weddings. If this is not a child free wedding and your dd is only a baby I would ask or possibly even just turn up with her. My dh and I were invited to a wedding years ago when dd was about 9 months old. It never even entered my head that dd wasn't invited. I had never heard of a child free wedding and it was before I was on mn. Dd required no food as I had stuff for her and she ate of my plate. I also had the good grace to take her out if she made a sound - she didn't. We also left early ish so that she wasn't there for the evening party.
I know some on mn will be horrified at my actions but it was not a big deal at all. Never mind this idea that mums need to get over themselves and their pfb - I think brides need to get over themselves and their precious weddings.

Glad I am at an age where most of my mates are married so I don't have to go to many weddings these days. Was so much easier in the past...

Writerwannabe83 Sun 23-Feb-14 15:30:05

Why do you hate child free weddings sovery ??

apermanentheadache Sun 23-Feb-14 15:35:57

Sovery, I think you have it spot on.

soverylucky Sun 23-Feb-14 15:36:16

I find them dull tbh and I very much think that celebrating such an important part of your life with your family should really include all your family. If you want a small wedding invite less families but don't cut them in half and say we only want the parents to come. An unpopular view I know but it is how I feel. Have turned down wedding invites that specifically excluded our children.

I hate child free weddings that are deliberately child free rather than just because people don't happen to have children because for me it is all about celebrating and being together and to deliberately exclude people just because they happen to be children isn't nice. So on my wedding, I get to make the choice, other people are entitled to do the same.

Imo, to turn up at an occasion with an extra uninvited guest is unbelievably rude. It is also extremely unfair on those who bothered to make arrangements for their own child to come to the wedding if you just turn up with your own child.

Bunbaker Sun 23-Feb-14 15:40:03

I can't answer for sovery but I view weddings as family affairs, and in my experience they have always been family affairs, which means including children. Most weddings I have been to have had mostly family with just a handful of friends.

When OH and I got married I only invited four friends, the rest were family. SIL was the only one with children and it never occurred to me not to invite the children as well. In any case any childcare she might have had was at the wedding anyway.

Writerwannabe83 Sun 23-Feb-14 15:40:26

Apart from the 11 year old there are no other children in my family smile Well, apart from my niece and nephew (aged 4 and 7) but like I said, my sister didn't want them to come. We had a 10 year old come to the Evening Reception who befriended the 11 year old smile

I don't see why Weddings are dull without children?
What is it exactly that attending children do that make the day fun for the adult guests?? Or do you mean you don't find the Wedding fun if you are specifically separated from your own children?

hootloop Sun 23-Feb-14 15:41:27

I have another thought, although I will be flamed for it. Maybe bride just doesn't like OPs daughter (or her behaviour)and does just want OP there. I know we have purposely drifted apart from previously very close friends because the parent very differently to us and it is difficult to watch.

Writerwannabe83 Sun 23-Feb-14 15:42:37

If we did have lots of children in the family (and so were obviously related to me) then they have been invited but only because they are direct family - I still wouldn't have invited the children of my friends.

soverylucky Sun 23-Feb-14 15:45:23

I am from a very big family with lots of children. I enjoy their company - not just my own children but my many nieces and nephews. I like how they enjoy the occasion just as much as the grown ups. My dd's loved getting a new dress for the most recent wedding we went to (one of my brothers) they enjoyed the singing in the church, seeing all their cousins, having a lovely meal, running around on the lawn outside, posing for photos - it was just a lovely family occasion. It is rare that we all get together so it was really special. The child free weddings I have been to have been more like a function rather than a wedding.

Peekingduck Sun 23-Feb-14 15:47:37

I love child free weddings. It's nice to have time away from the children as a couple. I feel cheated if I go to a child free wedding and there are children there. grin
What makes a child free wedding enjoyable is the opportunity to have a nice meal together with other (hopefully!) friendly adults, have a conversation and laugh over the table. When it comes to the dancing the dance floor isn't taken over by small people running about bashing into legs and getting accidentally stamped on.
What rule says that a wedding has to be a family affair and celebration? My DH and I have small families, and anyway, we see more of our friends than we do the family, so it was great to share our day and celebrate with friends and family together. And no children. grin
A wedding is to recognise and celebrate a life-long partnership, but these days the emphasis is not so much on having and raising a family.
Has anyone considered that sometimes, just sometimes, the couple might want a child free wedding because they know that they themselves can't have children of their own?

2rebecca Sun 23-Feb-14 15:49:38

re Bearbehind's point, do lots of women really remember when the birthdays of their friends' children are? I've only been bridesmaid once and am still in contact with this friend although we now live several hours apart. We have no idea when each others' kids' birthdays are though, but I'd have no problem at all mentioning it if I was invited to a party on a birthday. It sounds a poor friendship if you can't even approach the friend about this issue.

Somersetlady Sun 23-Feb-14 15:49:46

But this completely misses the point of the bride and groom wanting to share their special day with those they wish to invite.

Many brides might not have personal relationships with the children of guests but do with the guests themselves. As someone who got married pre children apart from my two goddaughters 3 and 11 we were not close enough to anyone elses children to want them there.

This has nothing to do with anything so dramatic as splitting up families presumably you poor people making these sweeping statements don't ever leave your children to go to work or god forbid socialise?

Children do change the atmosphere and dynamic of an event especially when there are many of them. They don't all sit there perfectly quietly through a church service reception and speeches. When you had or have your weddings you were entitled to invite who you wished and if that include a creche load of kids then good on you but there is no reason any bride and groom should be asked to have a child or children at a wedding when they have decided they don't want to invite children.

soverylucky Sun 23-Feb-14 15:51:21

Of course couples can have the wedding they want - be it childfree or whatever. Since the wedding in the op is not childfree and the child in question won't actually cost anything to have their I don't think there is any harm in asking. They can say no.

When my niece got married, they had a child free wedding. My son was only a year old at the time and I was also heavily pregnant. We managed to get a friend to care for him for the day time and we went to the ceremony and meal and home for the evening to put him to bed etc. and missed the evening reception. Another guest had a 4 week old whom she was breastfeeding and had family bring him along to be fed and take him away again. Then a couple turned up with a a baby and toddler assuming they were invited. Neither me or the other guest were very happy.

A few years down the line, my niece had her own son and her Aunt got remarried and didn't invite children and she was very annoyed as it meant they couldn't attend. I don't think she saw the irony.

I know that people have budgets and ideas for their own weddings and that is their choice, and the invited guests have to take their own decision on whether they want to accept the event they have been invited to. You can't get to dictate what the invite contains I'm afraid.

soverylucky Sun 23-Feb-14 15:52:42

there not their - sorry

Somersetlady Sun 23-Feb-14 15:53:05

peeking duck you sound like an immensely likeable, well rounded and level headed person!

Bearbehind Sun 23-Feb-14 15:53:37

That was really the point I was trying to make 2rebecca, even if the bride doesn't remember the date of OP's DD's birthday, it seems alien to me that it hasn't come up in conversation if they are supposed to be such good friends.

MistressDeeCee Sun 23-Feb-14 15:55:22

YANBU. Just decline invitation. I dont 'get' why people want child-free weddings its unsociable and smacks of being too precious. 'You can come but dont bring your children'. Actually, why not? Do they spoil the photos? The message it sends out is horrible. Perhaps children are a nuisance, should be seen and not heard and parents suddenly lose control of them simply because its a wedding so they run amok. Could make them a parent-free zone I guess, that would solve all issues. Anyway you could ask I suppose but if its a 'No' well then, at least you've asked and thats that. Sounds like too much hassle tho tbh

Writerwannabe83 Sun 23-Feb-14 15:58:34

I dont 'get' why people want child-free weddings its unsociable and smacks of being too precious

Or it's just not possible because of space and cost...

FamiliesShareGerms Sun 23-Feb-14 16:04:43

I've never known "child free" apply to a four week old bf baby, that's astounding - and happy as I am to respect B&G wishes on most things, this would have been a red line for me . How on earth can you attend, never mind enjoy, a wedding with leaky boobs and your tiny baby being brought to you for feeds??!

Anyway, don't want to de-rail the thread!

Writerwannabe83 Sun 23-Feb-14 16:06:44

I completely agree families - although we didn't invite children, if any of our friends had babies (say under a year old) then their baby would automatically be invited. We would never have asked our friends parents to leave behind such a young and dependent infant.

squoosh Sun 23-Feb-14 16:06:58

I completely get why people might want a child free wedding.

Writerwannabe83 Sun 23-Feb-14 16:07:50

I meant we would never have asked our parent friends to leave behind such a young and dependent infant.

HotDogHotDogHotDiggityDog Sun 23-Feb-14 16:10:05

I'm planning a mostly child free wedding. Only DD, nieces and nephews invited. So 8 children in total.

My reason? I don't want loads of children running around.
If I invited all the children of my guests, there will quite possibly be more children than adults. I would have to look for a venue other than the one I want (too small) put on some kind of children's entertainment, different menu, more £ per head etc.
Also, I want to have a good drink and a dance with my friends and family. I don't want to feel I can't talk about certain things because little ears are listening. I don't want other guests, who've chosen not to bring kids, feel like they can't talk openly or have a good drink.
I want to dance without tripping over some little boy skidding on their knees or doing the aeroplane.

If that means some people won't go because they hate child free weddings. So be it.

I'm paying for it!

Somersetlady Sun 23-Feb-14 16:11:18

mistress lets make all nightclubs and pubs child inclusive too and maybe we should bring them to work whilst we are at it? Afterall they don't need attention' looking after have special dietary requests or act like children rather than adults

Peekingduck Sun 23-Feb-14 16:17:51

"peeking duck you sound like an immensely likeable, well rounded and level headed person!"

Oh! (Preens feathers). blush

soverylucky Sun 23-Feb-14 16:18:17

But I though somerset that a nightclub or place of work wasn't a suitable environment for a child and have always been so.

Adults have special diet requirements too and some also act like idiots.

I don't think anyone on this thread has said the children MUST be invited. As pp said - if you want to go then you go and if your don't then you don't. Bride and groom can do what they want. I personally just prefer weddings with children. Others prefer weddings without children. It isn't really a big deal - merely different opinions.

Peekingduck Sun 23-Feb-14 16:23:41

What is it about weddings that makes people behave so strangely? You know what, for a lot of people a wedding is simply a recognition of their union and an opportunity to celebrate it with friends. Surely they can choose how they want to celebrate? I mean, if you were invited to a 50th birthday celebration where there was a nice meal followed by dancing, would people get het up if their children weren't invited to that?
MistressDeeCee I was actually shocked by your post. "Horrible" - really? Someone invites you to share an occasion with them and pays for you to be there, and you'd say they were horrible because they didn't want children to come along? That's madness.
Actually, I feel a bit sorry for anyone who can't imagine going along to a nice day out like a wedding and being able to enjoy themselves without the Ankle Biters. grin

Moreisnnogedag Sun 23-Feb-14 16:25:37

I just don't get this. I can't imagine being offended for someone asking a question and thinking back I don't remember whether we put people's children down on the invites because I thought it was a given that they'd be coming. If DC weren't invited it was down to oversight rather than anything else.

Surely in real life people aren't this het up about a celebration? Just ask.

Somersetlady Sun 23-Feb-14 16:29:12

soverlucky a good wedding involves usually alcohol, dancing and staying up into the smalls hours with adult behaviour and conversation in much the same way as a nightclub does!

You don't expect your children to be invited to an adult night out in bars or clubs so why the horror of them not being invited to a wedding?

Somersetlady Sun 23-Feb-14 16:32:25

moreis it's the point of putting the bride and groom on the spot as in above threads at least ask in writing so they have time for a considered response and are not pressurised into agreeing to something they would have invited if they had wanted there.

I dont know any marrying couples that do not give serious thought and consideration to the invite list children and adults alike or that accidentally miss off people they want to share their special day!

soverylucky Sun 23-Feb-14 16:41:17

I am not horrified at all. I have attended both child free weddings and children allowed weddings. I have chosen on occasion to not attend a child free wedding in the past but have also attended them. I am merely saying that I personally prefer weddings with children. What does this matter to anyone else at all. I don't understand why you think I would be horrified by a child free wedding.

splasheeny Sun 23-Feb-14 16:49:24

This thread just shows how controversial this situation is.

Turning down the invite would be the easiest thing to do, but would have the potential to offend/ruin our friendship.

I do agree that she must not value our friendship as much now to not invite me to be bridesmaid/not invite daughter to be flower girl and not even invite her.

I want to talk to her, as I would do with a close friend and explain that this is a difficult situation.

apermanentheadache Sun 23-Feb-14 16:56:27

Follow your heart: talk to her. I am sure you can find a solution or mutual understanding, at least.

MistressDeeCee Sun 23-Feb-14 17:22:30

If Im inviting a family then I invite the family, end of story. Mind you the most outlandish wedding stories I tend to see are on Mumsnet AIBU in real-life Ive never been invited to a child-free wedding or come across some of the bizarre situations that occur for a wedding day. Still, if parents can't come as they dont' have childcare Im pretty sure the bride will understand, OP; you're not a 'single' and these things happen you're probably not the only one with this dilemma.

JanineStHubbins Sun 23-Feb-14 17:24:24

If Im inviting a family then I invite the family, end of story.

What if you only want to invite the couple?

wishful75 Sun 23-Feb-14 17:36:27

Just ask, perfectly reasonable to...you were close. Don't get the rude responses about asking, fgs does nobody talk anymore?

too precious

chunkythighs Sun 23-Feb-14 17:46:18

Aye, op the people holding and paying for the party are totally unreasonable.

Not only would I not bother to ask if you can bring your daughter- just dress her up as a flower girl, you can go a substitute bridesmaid and sit up at the top table.

I really cannot understand why she won't focus on you and your daughter on her wedding day. I'm also at a total loss as to why you are no longer close!!!!!

YouAreTalkingRubbish Sun 23-Feb-14 17:53:19

OP, I don't think you should assume that she does not value your friendship anymore. Are you really suprised that she didn't ask you to be bridesmaid? You mention that you don't see each other much now that she has moved and she can't know your DD very well.

Bearbehind Sun 23-Feb-14 18:06:44

OP, does she know the wedding day is your daughters birthday?

What reason has she given you for not inviting her when other children are attending?

If you are unable to answer either of these questions I think you have to accept that you are just not that close anymore so you prioritising your daughters birthday over her wedding day probably isn't going to make her lose any sleep.

splasheeny Sun 23-Feb-14 18:08:56

Yes I was surprised. We still talk a lot. I understand there is a tradition of not asking married women, but I would have thought that my daughter could have been a flower girl in that case. She does know dd well, in fact she would have been her godmother had we got her christened.

feckawwf Sun 23-Feb-14 18:09:43

I defo wouldn't leave my child on their birthday for a wedding (although my husband had an operation on ds' birthday a few days ago and we both left him for thathmmslightly different tho...) so you have a choice-be "rude" and ask or decline! I don't think you would be unreasonable either way!

verdiletta Sun 23-Feb-14 18:14:54

I've never been to a child-free wedding, they must be unusual surely? I think people probably get miffed as it is very traditional and normal to have kids whizzing around, and in light of that having a child-free wedding could be perceived as 'we hate kids'.
I have to say the only children that would annoy me at a wedding are my own, so it's great to ditch them. Other people's kids are great because they're not your problem and you can get as drunk as you like.

splasheeny Sun 23-Feb-14 18:14:57

Bear she has been to dds first 2 birthdays, so I would imagine she would realise it must be near her birthday.

She said she is only inviting family children, for budget reasons. I am disappointed though that she couldn't include dd as we were at least close. I also know her budget is big: her parents have given her a 5 figure amount to spend.

Refoca Sun 23-Feb-14 18:19:15

I don't think it would be rude at all if you called her for a chat, rxplained about yhe clash with dd's 4th birthday and asked if e could come too. Say she doesn't need to answer right now, you appreciate how hard planning seating/waitig for replies to know numbers etc is and you don't want to put her on the spot.

What's the worst that can happen...we'll see a 'aibu to say no to my friend's request to bring her 4 year old to my wedding?' And she'll worry loads too but your friendship will outlast it regardless of what your/her actions are that follow as long as everyone is grown up and honest about it.

Bearbehind Sun 23-Feb-14 18:19:19

Splash, I was unfortunate enough to be involved in a wedding last year where the usual perfectly rational bride, turned into the bridezilla from hell.

It doesn't sound like she is giving your friendship any consideration, either because she feels you have drifted apart, or more likely, because she is hellbent on a dream wedding.

Speak to her, tell her you don't think you can leave DD on her birthday and see what her reaction is. Either way, you'll find out what her priorities are.

splasheeny Sun 23-Feb-14 18:21:50

Bear there may be some truth about the bridezilla.

She has a dedicated wedding blog.

Bearbehind Sun 23-Feb-14 18:23:26

There isn't an eye roll icon but I think you've just solved your dilemma! grin

TamerB Sun 23-Feb-14 18:24:12

I just wouldn't go-too much hassle and my children's birthdays always come first with me.

truelymadlysleepy Sun 23-Feb-14 18:25:19

splashy you have a social responsibility to send us a link to the blog wink

likeneverbefore Sun 23-Feb-14 18:34:31

It's this bit:

"I would have thought that my daughter could have been a flower girl"

that makes you seem unreasonable to me.

It isn't your wedding - maybe your friend doesn't even want any flower girls? Or if she does, maybe she's chosen children who are special to her for whatever reason.

It's coming across a bit tit for tat "you were my bridesmaid, you owe me" and it doesn't really work like that, in my mind.

You had your wedding your way - you wanted her as bridesmaid, she obliged.

Now it's time for her to do things her way.

Bearbehind Sun 23-Feb-14 18:41:18

There's a big difference between thinking your daughter might be a bridesmaid/ flower girl and her not even being invited.

I think the OP is just being honest in what she thought might happen, rightly or wrongly, we've all done it.

As I said before, I've seen first hand the completely irrational decisions a bridezilla can make, and think that the crux of this problem is the tunnel vision this bride seems to have.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 18:44:38

I know all my friend's birthdays as I write them on my birthday calendar when they are born. DH and I got married on my ex bosses birthday, not that I had remembered it was her birthday but I wouldn't have chosen a child in the family's birthday I don't think.

All family weddings except one have invited our children. I was disappointed not to be able to go as I love weddings but it was their choice and we respected that.

dancingwithmyselfandthecat Sun 23-Feb-14 18:45:25

I just don't see why someone's wedding is a good way to celebrate your DDs birthday.

Its a long day, surrounded by strangers and requiring best behaviour. Hell I would be miffed about spending my birthday at someone's wedding and I'm thirty!

If there is no way you can pretend her birthday is the day before and you don't want to be away from your DD don't go. Chances of it being a fun 4th for her are minimal.

Truly, is your real issue just that you are miffed about her not being invited in the first place? Because the flowergirl reference suggests it. I am sure its not a personal slight on your DD. Its either budget (five figures is only 10k - and that can get eaten up by a fancy wedding) or wanting a more adult tone to the party. Family children are different. Its just the way it goes.

likeneverbefore Sun 23-Feb-14 18:45:46

I honestly don't see that it's a big deal - you just decline politely and focus on your DD's birthday (one of my DD's turns 4 this summer and I wouldn't miss it for the world, so I don't think YABU about that!)

I do think it's strange to think through what roles yourself and your family may play in someone else's wedding.

A couple in my family got engaged recently - I haven't the foggiest if we'll be invited or not, I certainly haven't started assigning roles to people.

Just decline politely, OP.

likeneverbefore Sun 23-Feb-14 18:50:25

Sorry to suggest this, OP, but is there any chance that this friend is 'phasing you out' and is hoping the date clash plus childfree aspect will mean you decline?

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 23-Feb-14 18:52:57

Maybe it is different because this is your friend but what would you do if it was a family member getting married?

I wouldn't decline a wedding invite because the marriage was taking place on my child's birthday.

mootime Sun 23-Feb-14 19:15:28

I find it amazing that people are so outraged that you might ask!
Surely the bride is a friend and friends can talk about things. Call her, explain the situation. You'd love to go, but it's dd's birthday (which she probably already knows), if there is any chance you can bring her that would be great, but if not then no worries.

People get funny about weddings and children. When you don't have children you have no idea how important/ difficult things can be. Also when not in the midst of your own wedding fever you can forget how all consuming making the "perfect day" can be. Good luck OP!

squoosh Sun 23-Feb-14 19:20:48

Me too, baffled at the idea that people baulk at the idea of someone having a conversation with a close friend.

Quinteszilla Sun 23-Feb-14 19:25:50

Having only family children at a wedding is reasonable. Free for all could potentially mean twice the price. And the bride may not want to between 1/3-1/2 of the guests to be children.

If your child was invited, all other friends children would have to be invited too.

If you dont want to leave your daughter, just decline the invite. Bride has clearly thought it through and your dd is not invited.

It is up to you whether you let this ruin the friendship or not. Weddings are not tit for tat.

OddFodd Sun 23-Feb-14 19:29:56

From my POV, I don't see the point of having the conversation. I'm not married, never have been, never will be but I'd imagine the guestlist is pretty carefully planned. And as OP now (finally) admits, children are family only. She's not family. There's got to be a cut off and surely family kids only is the kindest and least controversial way to go.

OP you've not been entirely truthful on this thread. It's not a 'children invited' wedding; it's a 'family children invited' wedding. Not the same

SingMoreWhenYoureWinning Sun 23-Feb-14 19:39:04

We are getting married soon.

We have invited around 70 adults and 12 children (including our own).

There are many of the invitees who have been invited only as an individual or as a couple. There are some friends who I know have children, but have no relationship with the children myself, who have had the kids left out.

If people roll their eyes and moan then I couldn't really give a stuff. If they don't want to leave their precious darlings for a day then they can decline the invite.

If we invited all the kids of all the couples who are coming, we'd have 30+ kids there. I just don't want that sort of dynamic on my wedding day, it would be like a bloody creche.

Bearbehind Sun 23-Feb-14 19:46:25

If they don't want to leave their precious darlings for a day then they can decline the invite.

Nice attitude to have towards your nearest and dearest hmm

JerseySpud Sun 23-Feb-14 19:59:08

I can't understand why you would just assume your dd would be flower girl. My best friend gets married in a couple of months.

In no way did i assume either of my dd's would be bridesmaids or flower girls. They aren't invited. I sorted childcare.

splasheeny Sun 23-Feb-14 20:08:27

It's a budget way into the 5 figures, I was trying not to out myself by giving so many details.

I have never said anything about her not involving me or my daughter in the wedding, but don't think it is unreasonable to think given she was my bridesmaid not very long ago it would be likely to happen.

As I said earlier, none of our friends have children, so inviting them would not inverse numbers much, and she does know dd well. She even went with my to my antenatal ultrasounds.

Quinteszilla Sun 23-Feb-14 20:26:15

Be careful so you dont end up a guestzilla..... wink

No seriously. It does not matter what her budget is, how many children are from family (could be just 5, and perhaps reluctantly), or whether she was at your ultrasound, or your bridesmaid. She was there at your wish on all those occasions. Why cant you now do as she wishes? An adult occasion for her wedding!

She sounds like a great friend and a great support to you. Dont be so pfb and child-centric that you expect that she is supportive to you and your child also on her wedding day!

Maybe she wants you to dance and have fun, mingle with other adults, rather than sit with your 3 year old on your lap, and fret over whether she eats, or needs a nap!

Bearbehind Sun 23-Feb-14 20:33:10

OMG quinteszilla- maybe that's why I truly don't understand bridezilla type behaviour. Are you really saying that everything that has gone before in a friendship goes out of the window because some one wants a certain type of wedding?

Quinteszilla Sun 23-Feb-14 20:39:02

No, I am saying it does not matter what wedding Bride A had, Bride B gets to plan the wedding that she wants irrespective of what Bride A did.

I am also saying that it is Bride Bs choice to have a wedding with a limited number of children if that is what she wants, and that the friend now getting married seems to have been very supportive of the OP and considerate of her needs, but maybe on HER wedding day, she gets to consider her own wishes?

Bearbehind Sun 23-Feb-14 20:41:56

Sorry but I think if you were close enough to be a bridesmaid and attend someone's antenatal ultrasounds then you might want to give a shit about the implications of them attending your non-child free wedding without their child.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Sun 23-Feb-14 20:48:54

I think you should just be honest with her (you say she's a good friend after all), and say that you'd love to attend her wedding but it's your DD's birthday that weekend and don't want to be away from her.

She may well say, oh well bring her then. Or, she won't.

Her budget is irrelevant. She doesn't have to invite your DD, or any other children. And don't whatever you do offer to pay for her, that's just cheeky.

Helltotheno Sun 23-Feb-14 20:49:49

Yet another wedding thread where I just don't understand what the issue is. She invited you plus 1 to her wedding. That's who she invited. By all means call her to ask her if you could bring your daughter and put her in the position where she has to reiterate to you that just you and her plus one are invited (that, or in the position where she feels she has to invite your daughter because you rang to ask, which means other guests in the same position will be miffed).

It's quite simple: if you don't want to leave your daughter with anyone close to you for the time it takes to attend the wedding, just say you can't go.

By the way, does having someone as your bridesmaid automatically mean they ask you to be theirs (no matter what the intervening circs) or is that some new unwritten MN rule?

SingMoreWhenYoureWinning Sun 23-Feb-14 21:01:34

Bearbehind - it's the truth though.

If invited friends simply can't do without their kids for the day, or can't find childcare then they'll have to decline.

Why is that a shit attitude to have?

60sname Sun 23-Feb-14 21:01:35

What Singmore said. I am getting married shortly - we are having family children and those of the bridal party. A few children - fine. A load - nope. I'd prefer it to be a mostly adult occasion and for the people there to be focused on mingling and dancing rather than policing their children.

Bearbehind Sun 23-Feb-14 21:06:24

I do find it interesting that 2 people who are getting married soon have the 'it's my day I'll do what I want attitude'

If your friends have children, why are they less welcome than your family's children?

I can understand completely child free weddings but not selectively child free ones.

And people wonder what makes a bridezilla.....

SingMoreWhenYoureWinning Sun 23-Feb-14 21:10:32

Why do I want to have 20+ kids i've never met at my wedding?

I have friends at work who i'm quite close to and are hence invited - never met their kids.

It has nothing to do with being a bridezilla. Just don't really fancy shelling out an extra £600 (the cost for another 20 kids) just to turn my wedding into something alike to a creche.

HotDogHotDogHotDiggityDog Sun 23-Feb-14 21:14:05

Do you have a problem with brides Bear?

I really don't see why someone is being a bridezilla for not wanting loads of children to a party (because that's what it is) that they are paying £££'s for.

Some people (parents) also need to realise that everyone else's life and decisions/plans should change just because they have a child.

It goes both ways.

HotDogHotDogHotDiggityDog Sun 23-Feb-14 21:15:34

That post hardly makes sense blush

You know what I mean though.

Bearbehind Sun 23-Feb-14 21:16:51

If you can honestly say it's their presence rather than their presents you are after then fair enough but a work colleague is a very different situation to someone for whom you were bridesmaid.

DinahLady Sun 23-Feb-14 21:17:49

I was going to say YABU, it's their wedding and their day and you shouldn't presume to say can your dd go. Just suck it up and go!
HOWEVER, it's on her birthday. No way would I be comfortable with not being there for my kids on their birthday.
I'd say I couldn't get the childcare and not go. (Doubt child free people would know how it feels to leave their small kids on their birthday.)

zeezeek Sun 23-Feb-14 21:18:56

It's a bit rude to say that childless people don't understand childcare issues - none of us live such isolated lives that people don't understand issues like this.

Sometimes people just want to spend time with other adults. Having children at any event changes it and, yes, some of them are badly behaved, demanding and some adults (either parents or childless) feel inhibited.

Apart from my own, or my nephews, I'm not keen on the company of children and would actually prefer to go to a child-free wedding than one where other peoples little darlings are running around.

When you have children you know that your life is going to change and that there are some things you are not going to be able to do. If you don't want to leave your children to go somewhere where they aren't invited, don't go.

Personally, I rather be anywhere than at a child's birthday party....especially one of my own!

Bearbehind Sun 23-Feb-14 21:19:26

I don't have a problem with rational brides but those who think the day is all about them without a thought for very close friends piss me off.

Work colleagues, 3rd cousins twice removed fair enough but not close friends.

splasheeny Sun 23-Feb-14 21:21:46

I have only mentioned the budget as others have said she may not be invited sue to the budget.

The point is she does know dd well.

I will talk to her tomorrow.

DinahLady Sun 23-Feb-14 21:27:25

Sometimes people just want to spend time with other adults. Having children at any event changes it and, yes, some of them are badly behaved, demanding and some adults (either parents or childless) feel inhibited.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE child free weddings prefer them to ones with kids actually as it means I can relax and not watch mine charge around like loons grin
It would pee me off that a so called close friend arranged her wedding for my small child's birthday though.

HotDogHotDogHotDiggityDog Sun 23-Feb-14 21:38:22

Bear, I kind of get what you're saying. Some people do go a bit nuts about their weddings but bloody hell, it is all about the couple getting married. they are the ones paying for it. Otherwise it's just an expensive party for no reason whatsoever.

That would be ridiculous unless you were rich and loved throwing parties smile

Bearbehind Sun 23-Feb-14 21:48:27

The purpose of the day is for 2 people to make a commitment to each other, that needs them and a couple witnesses. If the couple chose to extend that, they should consider the feelings of their guests, particularly close friends.

Re the work colleague's children not being invited as the bride doesn't know them - have these colleagues partners been invited as, presumably the bride doesn't know them very well (if at all) either?

apermanentheadache Sun 23-Feb-14 22:33:22

Bear you sound v nice, considerate, and sensible.

The conspicuous consumption around some weddings makes me feel quite sick. It should be about love and making a public commitment, and having a top knees-up. Just because it's your big day doesn't make it ok to disregard others' feelings. The number of weddings I've been to which involve driving for 8 hours, spending a fortune on hotels, gifts, making hugely complicated childcare arrangements, having to apply for authorisef leave from DD'S school, work etc., because yhe wedding's on a Tuesday or whatever....

What's wrong with the church/reg office down the road and a great party near to where the couple live? Why does everything have to be so bloody lavish these days?!

zeezeek Sun 23-Feb-14 22:55:58

apermanentheadache - because there's such a hype around the whole process of getting married - wedding fairs, those awful Brides mags, coverage of opulent celebrity weddings and then the endless messages that this is the best day of your life etc etc. People seem to just think "wedding" now and spend years planning it without thinking of the future. Sometimes I think some people actually forget that after this amazing, lavish wedding they are a) probably going to have to pay for it and b) live with this person for many years. Of course, some of those then go on to have the lavish honeymoon in order to prolong the fantasy for a bit longer.....

We got married in Vegas, in the middle of summer, while we were at a conference. Two colleagues were witnesses. Neither of us had anything resembling wedding clothes, no flowers, no favours, no arguments about who to invite etc. Just us, our colleagues (who were 2 friends of my DH), a tacky, smelly chapel and a slightly dodgy priest (think he was a priest - we weren't too sure....), then back to the hotel for burgers. Bliss

BackforGood Sun 23-Feb-14 23:15:05

Seriously Dinah ?????? shock
Two people decide to get married.
They have to tie up finding a day that suits both of them all of their parents, their best man and bridesmaids (at a minimum, I'd say add siblings into the mix for many, too), with a day that they can also get the venue they want for the Reception, a venue for the ceremony (if different), officiants, time off work, etc., maybe a time when they can afford the honeymoon they want, and you would seriously then expect them to start looking through the whole of their guest list, to see if the one day they can find then clashes with the birthdays of the relatives of any guests ???? hmm

I really can't believe you lot. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill!!

Phone the friend.
Tell her it is DD's birthday.
Say can we both come or shall we just send a card
Done

TamerB Mon 24-Feb-14 07:23:41

Too easy for people, missnevermind!

hoobypickypicky Mon 24-Feb-14 08:17:11

"Bear she has been to dds first 2 birthdays, so I would imagine she would realise it must be near her birthday.
She said she is only inviting family children, for budget reasons. I am disappointed though that she couldn't include dd as we were at least close. I also know her budget is big: her parents have given her a 5 figure amount to spend."

The bride and groom's budget may be big but it's their budget, not yours to decide or question how it's spent.

You keep saying that the bride knows your DD. Maybe she knows her enough to believe (rightly or wrongly) that your DD would be less than quiet and well behaved at her wedding.

This doesn't entirely sound about not wanting to be apart from your dd on her birthday. There are alternatives - decline, go alone and leave your dd with her father, go just for the ceremony - but none of those seem to suit you. Instead you want your child to spend her 4th birthday sitting on your lap eating adult food from your plate and being told to be quiet and sit still in a place of worship and during the speeches while two adults are (rightly) the focus of attention instead of the birthday girl (you would ensure she sat still and in absolute silence during the ceremony and speeches, wouldn't you?). What fun is that for a small child?

If you were bothered about your daughter's birthday rather than miffed that your pfb isn't included in the invitation I don't think you'd be mentioning that you'd have thought she'd have been a flower girl and I definitely don't think you'd be considering being rude enough to put the bride on the spot by asking her to include your child to her pre-planned, adult-oriented celebration of marriage when it's already been made clear that she's not invited and why.

Respect your friend's adult choices at her event and respect her already expressed wishes, either decline the whole thing with nothing more than the explanation that you have a prior engagement, if necessary, or call and say that for reasons of logistics DH will be unable to attend and you will be able to attend the ceremony only.

splasheeny Mon 24-Feb-14 08:28:06

Lol hooby. You are way off the mark.

Dd is a very sweet girl, who is able to behave as well as cab be expected of a child of her age. This is not an adult only wedding..

I only mention the budget because other people have brought it up.

But this is aibu, and people like to get het up!

I would decline politely explaining that you don't want to be away from your dd on her birthday (perfectly reasonable as she's 4). Then leave it to her to offer.

And in your shoes, given how close you were, yes I would be pissed off if she either doesn't say 'bring her' or explain why she can't have her, but so be it. You don't have to show that iyswim

hoobypickypicky Mon 24-Feb-14 08:57:22

"Lol hooby. You are way off the mark.
Dd is a very sweet girl, who is able to behave as well as cab be expected of a child of her age. I only mention the budget because other people have brought it up. But this is aibu, and people like to get het up!"

You've taken offence unnecessarily. I'm sure your DD is able to behave as well as can be expected for a child of her age. Maybe she can behave better, but there's no guarantee that she will on the day in question is there, because she's the age she is!

I said that the bride may rightly or wrongly think that your daughter might not behave as perfectly as your host herself expects her adult guests to. She's childless as are most of her friends. She's not that used to small DC and fears the worst, perhaps?

Others asked about budget, yes, but you've told us that it's family children only for finance reasons, then added it's a large budget. Large it may be, large enough to cover non family children it isn't, in the opinion of the people paying.

You've said it yourself - "I am disappointed though that she couldn't include dd as we were at least close." That still sounds far more as if it's about you being miffed that DD is not invited than it does that you don't want to miss your DD's birthday.

It's fine that you don't want to miss her birthday but the solution is to decline the wedding invitation on the grounds of a previous engagement not to try to change the terms of the invitation.

Roshbegosh Mon 24-Feb-14 09:02:49

It isn't all about how children behave at a wedding, it is really boring to be seated next to some 3 year old so her being there will spoil it for another guest even if she is well behaved.

WooWooOwl Mon 24-Feb-14 09:09:48

YABVU to have thought that your dd should be a flower girl!

PuppyMonkey Mon 24-Feb-14 09:40:36

Rosh, there are plenty of equally dull adults you might end up being seated next to at a wedding. Believe me. grin

LucyLasticBand Mon 24-Feb-14 09:41:39

i dont think you should miss the wedding.

i cant understand why you dont celebrate the birthday early. she will have lots of birthdays. she wont mind, she might not even know!

At 4? Of course she'll know. My kids would have been gutted to not have their parents around for their 4th birthday.

DinahLady Mon 24-Feb-14 10:25:54

i cant understand why you dont celebrate the birthday early. she will have lots of birthdays. she wont mind, she might not even know!

At the age of FOUR?! You definitely know when it's your birthday then, it's not like you're a tiny baby! hmm

LucyLasticBand Mon 24-Feb-14 10:26:55

she isnt yet 4, itis her 4th birthday.
hmm

TinyTear Mon 24-Feb-14 10:29:21

I have to comment on this eating adult food

What else would a 4 year old eat? chicken nuggets at every meal?

DinahLady Mon 24-Feb-14 10:30:46

then expect them to start looking through the whole of their guest list, to see if the one day they can find then clashes with the birthdays of the relatives of any guests ????

No of course I wouldn't expect them to do that! I would want them not to be too surprised if I turned round and said I couldn't make it after all as it clashed with my small child's birthday though!
I had a child free wedding and it was GREAT, so I'm not all about the kids must be invited to weddings stuff.
If someone had said they couldn't come because their child hadn't been invited and it was their birthday, then I'd have understood.
You have a child free wedding, you have to accept that some people won't want to come.

LucyLasticBand Mon 24-Feb-14 10:32:20

have you asked her yet op?

DinahLady Mon 24-Feb-14 10:32:36

she isnt yet 4, itis her 4th birthday.

Yes, she will be four ON her birthday. When the wedding is. So will more than likely have a very good idea that it's her birthday, no idea why people think if it's your 4th birthday you're clueless and don't know what day it is!
Mine certainly knew when their birthdays were at that age! hmm

LucyLasticBand Mon 24-Feb-14 10:34:20

hmm

DinahLady Mon 24-Feb-14 10:34:39

confused grin

LucyLasticBand Mon 24-Feb-14 10:35:57

would like a smiley with blowign raspberry
grin

Beeyump Mon 24-Feb-14 10:55:18

Why should she have your dd as a flower girl? Jeez.

BackforGood Mon 24-Feb-14 14:09:53

re the Birthday thing - all of my dc have always loved having celebrations on different days from their actual birthday - it means (in their minds) you get 2 (or even 3 on some occasions) birthdays - win, win grin

But I have to agre with Hooby's posts.

Somersetlady Mon 24-Feb-14 15:08:06

Ok OP put us out of our misery please!

You posted 48 hours ago about hope to approach a supposedly close friend about this conundrum - have you contacted her yet and what was her response?

Update please.........

DeWe Mon 24-Feb-14 15:23:59

Do people really expect a bride and groom, who have various friends and relatives to consider, not to put their wedding on a date because it clashes with one friend's child's birthday?
Really?
I mean even at our wedding, where we had very few children(simply because most of our friends didn't have them yet) we would have had 17 children. And actually I know when abouts my friends' children's birthdays are-but not the exact date, nor they mine as far as I'm aware.
Do people really consider such things when planning the wedding?
Surely you look at when your venues/caterers/mil (!) etc are free. Not children of the guests birthdays.

HenriettaPie Mon 24-Feb-14 15:32:45

What are you going to do op?

splasheeny Mon 24-Feb-14 18:53:00

I'm flattered that people are interested. I have tried calling friend but have not spoken to her yet. Sorry to not have a more interesting update.

hoobypickypicky Mon 24-Feb-14 18:53:53

"I have to comment on this eating adult food

What else would a 4 year old eat? chicken nuggets at every meal?"

Don't be silly, of course not. I mean as opposed to 4 year old birthday party food, cake and treats.

splasheeny Mon 24-Feb-14 18:53:55

I promise to update with our conversation smilel

splasheeny Mon 24-Feb-14 20:13:49

So, I have spoken to her, and she has confirmed that she doesn't want dd at our wedding. I have accepted, and told her that if it was anyone else I would just turn down the invite, but I do want to be there and that is the reason I am asking. So, at least I have spoken to her

mymiraclebubba Mon 24-Feb-14 20:17:42

If she is that good a friend I would just give her a call and ask her if the invitation covers dd as well - I don't think I specifically put kids on invite when I got married just assumed that those with kids would be bringing them

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Mon 24-Feb-14 20:34:11

So what happens about the birthday and who will look after your DD?

BobPatSamandIgglePiggle Mon 24-Feb-14 20:44:11

Did she give you a reason op? :-(

Quinteszilla Mon 24-Feb-14 20:48:25

You can still decline and RSVP no, now that has told you straight out that she does not want your child there.

Is there really a way forward in this friendship?

PrincessScrumpy Mon 24-Feb-14 20:54:24

I don't think I could leave dd and miss her 4th birthday. If I was the bride I would want you to ask me but I'm not a bridezilla and am a normal, emotionally stable person who would be devastated to discover you'd missed your dd's birthday for my wedding. You could offer to pay for dd's food but I would expect the bride to say not to worry!

PrincessScrumpy Mon 24-Feb-14 20:56:31

Sorry just seen your op - to me a friend who doesn't get the importance of your child's birthday at the age of 4 is no friend of mine. I would decline. My dd is 6 and she remembers her 4th birthday... I was there sharing in her excitement.

Jux Mon 24-Feb-14 20:58:51

Sounds like she's moved on with her life, really. I can't imagine saying that to smeone I actually cared about and wanted at my wedding. Sorry.

Jux Mon 24-Feb-14 20:59:50

Or maybe it's the groom being a bit jealous of you?

hoobypickypicky Mon 24-Feb-14 21:07:38

"Or maybe it's the groom being a bit jealous of you?"

Or perhaps the bride is just a little annoyed that she's been put in the position of having to repeat her already stated wish to have no other children at her own wedding than family. Perhaps she thinks the OP is rude to have asked despite knowing that her DD was invited. Perhaps she resents being made to feel uncomfortable by being put on the spot.

Because those explanations look feasible to me. There's nothing the OP has said to suggest that the groom might be jealous of her.

hoobypickypicky Mon 24-Feb-14 21:08:33

* despite knowing that her DD was not invited.

YouAreTalkingRubbish Mon 24-Feb-14 21:15:57

It was ok to ask and it was ok for the bride to say no. She may have very good reasons for not wanting your DD there or she may not, it doesn't really matter and it is totally up to her. I don't think you should feel annoyed with her.
If you decide not to go then I hope you do it without causing any ill feeling with the bride.

SeaSickSal Mon 24-Feb-14 21:18:48

Did she say why? Is it because other people with kids may be offended?

Did you offer to pay?

splasheeny Mon 24-Feb-14 21:25:57

Toffee I don't know. I really don't know what to do, but I don't need to RSVP just yet so have some time to think about it.

Bob She said she didn't want children because they might misbehave (though family children the same age will be there). She said its about numbers as well, though none of our friends have children, so I am a bit miffed that one child couldn't be included.

Anyway its not my choice.

I told her that it's fine, and invited her over to see dd and I.

I think the obsession with the wedding may be getting to her a bit.

splasheeny Mon 24-Feb-14 21:27:44

Sea I didn't offer to pay as some people here have said that they think that would be crass. Though on aibu it seems like you can never do right.. hmm

splasheeny Mon 24-Feb-14 21:29:18

Besides, budget was not a reason she gave for not inviting dd, and I know from past conversations that the budget is rather large.

ArtexMonkey Mon 24-Feb-14 21:30:24

Jeez I just wouldn't go.

What a ballache.

hoobypickypicky Mon 24-Feb-14 21:35:27

Tonight OP said - "Besides, budget was not a reason she gave for not inviting dd,"

Last night OP said - "She said she is only inviting family children, for budget reasons."

confused

SeaSickSal Mon 24-Feb-14 21:38:13

I would have offered to pay. I think people are wrong saying it would have been crass. I think it was more crass to ask for a favour and expect her to pay for it as well.

If you'd shown you were prepared to put yourself out financially to do it then it would have shown that you were serious, not just chancing your arm out of cheek.

splasheeny Mon 24-Feb-14 21:39:57

Hooby are you stalking me?

She didn't mention budget today when I spoke to her.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Mon 24-Feb-14 21:41:44

Offering to pay is just rude. I can't believe anyone would think that would be a good idea.

She doesn't want your dd there. She doesn't want a wedding full of children and she's entitled to that. Maybe the venue is at full capacity? It doesn't matter what the reason is. Can you imagine if everyone offered to pay for their kids/neighbours/friends/relatives. It would be a nightmare.

splasheeny Mon 24-Feb-14 21:42:17

Maybe so sea but the variety of opinions on this matter shows their is no 'correct' way of doing things.

I think it is now too late to offer to pay as she has made it clear she doesn't want dd there and bringing it up again may seem pushy.

likeneverbefore Mon 24-Feb-14 21:44:44

You said in your OP you may not even be able to get annual leave to go to this wedding - when will you find that out?

Yika Mon 24-Feb-14 21:46:47

Honestly, I'd be hurt in your position. She doesn't want children there as a general rule, but you are old friends and have explained your particular circumstances. Still she said no. I think you are being very generous and understanding to rise above it and put it down to a temporary bridezilla effect.I would also be torn, wanting to maintain the friendship yet be there for your DD. I hate declining something as special as a wedding but I think I probably would in this case.

hoobypickypicky Mon 24-Feb-14 21:49:40

No, splasheeny, I'm not stalking you. If I were I hope I'd do a better job of it than this. grin I was raising the fact that I was confused about an inconsistency in your thread, which as it's on a public discussion forum is open to discussion from, well, members of the public. Like, um, me. smile

splasheeny Mon 24-Feb-14 21:54:09

Likenever I don't know as I will be working a different job then (fixed tern contract). I would hope to be able to get annual leave, but it would depend on the business needs so is by no means guaranteed.

splasheeny Mon 24-Feb-14 21:57:28

I need to book dd's birthday soon (we were going to hire a very popular venue). Now I wonder if I should book her birthday party for the week before, or just say sod it and book it on her birthday.

Supercosy Mon 24-Feb-14 21:57:43

Well I think you were right to ask. You now know exactly where you stand albeit not in a great situation. Her decision does seem harsh I agree given the circumstances but you've been honest and up front with her she's been honest and up front with you. In your shoes, bearing in mind all of the problems there are in getting to the wedding in addition to it being your Dd's birthday, I would decline but I understand your wanting to be there for your friend.

likeneverbefore Mon 24-Feb-14 21:58:25

Hmm, that's tricky then.

You know, I wouldn't necessarily see it as a slight that she doesn't want your DD there (though I totally understand your predicament with regards to her birthday).

Perhaps she just feels that she wants you to be 'present' if you are going to be there. I have never taken my young DC to weddings and never will. I want to go and enjoy the day, not spend the whole thing making sure my DC are on best behaviour and sorting them out - perhaps that's what she's worried about with you?

likeneverbefore Mon 24-Feb-14 21:59:49

The family children exception - you don't necessarily know the reasons behind that, either. Couldn't it be that family are funding some of the wedding and therefore have more of a say on who is invited?

savingupforanother Mon 24-Feb-14 22:01:56

I'd book it on the day, OP. Your friend has put her needs first and so must you. You can send a nice card but let her know that you can't attend and you are sure she will understand.

PansOnFire Mon 24-Feb-14 22:04:11

There is nothing to think about - your DD's birthday has to come first and if she was any type of friend then she'd make sure your DD was invited and that you could attend. She sound a like she's being precious and a bit selfish, particularly as there are other children attending. In your position I'd be considering how I'd feel to miss my child's birthday, I think I'd feel guilty forever if it was to attend a wedding of someone who didn't value my DD enough to make a small exception in difficult circumstances.

I wonder what decision the bride would have come to if the roles were reversed? She might not understand now but she'll get it if she ever has children. Don't go, cut your losses and accept that friendship works from compromise and your friend is not compromising.

Inertia Mon 24-Feb-14 22:04:28

Fair enough to ask. I wouldn't have accepted the invitation on the spot though, because it sounds like there are various reasons why you might not be able to go- and personally I wouldn't want to miss my own child's birthday.

I'd book the party for your daughters actual birthday - sod the wedding! Send your friend an invite to the party grin

RandomMess Mon 24-Feb-14 22:06:08

I'm actually really sad that the bride has made that decision.

splasheeny Mon 24-Feb-14 22:06:45

Like never, I would agree with you if the wedding was local, or somewhere easily accessible. This wedding would involve spending at least one night away (possibly 2), and I don't want to be away from my daughter for that time. Leaving her with a babysitter for the evening would be totally different. I would also feel terrible about missing her birthday. I work long enough hours as it is.

likeneverbefore Mon 24-Feb-14 22:08:59

I'm not sure you understood my post, splasheeny - I agree that you're in a difficult predicament and I wouldn't be leaving my DD in those circumstances either.

HopefulHamster Mon 24-Feb-14 22:10:06

Was she nice to you about it?

Tbh I wouldn't go, it's your daughter's birthday. Enjoy it.

FWIW child-free weddings don't bother me - each to their own; but I wouldn't leave my child on their 4th birthday.

splasheeny Mon 24-Feb-14 22:13:32

Since dd was born I have only gone to one wedding, dd was invited but we decided not to take her so we could drink in peace! The wedding was in a location we could travel to without staying overnight. The bride and groom asked us about our dd, and all the children there were made to feel very welcome. Their laughter and smiles were a key part of the day, as cheesy as that sounds. That couple were not anywhere near as good friends as my friend who is getting married now. It makes me sad that as such a good friend she is not prepared to include dd.

likeneverbefore Mon 24-Feb-14 22:14:53

Sorry if you've already answered this, but is there someone you could take with you who could look after your DD while you're at the wedding, but DD is away with you for the weekend?

The wedding isn't on her actual birthday, you've said..so you'd have her birthday the day after the wedding while you were away.

I, personally, couldn't be arsed with all of that. I'd just happily not go to the wedding and spend the weekend doing DD birthday things, but you seem very certain that you want to be there.

littleblackno Mon 24-Feb-14 22:16:56

I would ask given the age of your dd. If I was the bride I would rather you ask than just not come. There may be a way around it and if you say that you understand if dd can't come then I don't think it's rude.

likeneverbefore Mon 24-Feb-14 22:17:39

"It makes me sad that as such a good friend she is not prepared to include dd"

This isn't really a thread about practicalities, is it? It's the fact that she feels her wedding day will be perfectly complete without your DD there.

Well, I can understand that, sorry. You have your ideas about what makes a good wedding and she has hers. It's her wedding, up to her how she plays it out.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm dismissing your upset - I just don't understand it. My friendships with my best friends are between me and them - not me, them and my DC.

This whole thread has been confused with the whole birthday thing when ultimately you're put out that she just doesn't want your DD there.

splasheeny Mon 24-Feb-14 22:18:12

Like never, not at the moment. We are having some issues with our childcare now (a whole other thread). I did explain this to her too (that childcare is an issue).

splasheeny Mon 24-Feb-14 22:20:55

Crossed post like never, but I'm sad that given these circumstances she doesnt want to include dd. I have explained everything to her, and I think that given that, as good friend, it would have been nice of her to consider having dd.

likeneverbefore Mon 24-Feb-14 22:21:37

Just plan a brilliant birthday with your DD, it's only a wedding, you can still be friends.

HellomynameisIcklePickle Mon 24-Feb-14 22:22:52

splash It really sounds like this is souring how you feel about your friend. I think by the time the wedding comes the fact your DD is not with you will make you bitter indeed.

In your shoes with how you are feeling I would be tempted to send your friend a message tomorrow (or a card) that says you have thought over your planning and logistically it will be too difficult to attend her wedding, but you will be there with her in spirit and can't wait to celebrate with them when they are back from their honeymoon.

And then in a few months time you can decide how you feel about the friendship and how it progresses, but I can read in your tone that attending will do your friendship no favours at all.

BackforGood Mon 24-Feb-14 22:24:13

But equally, "as a good friend", surely you should be respecting her choices on her big day - not sure why it's the host that is supposed to be changing her mind confused

likeneverbefore Mon 24-Feb-14 22:25:49

Did she argue with you over the details of your wedding day, splash? Or did she just wear what you asked her to/do as she was asked to etc etc?

I'm not being sarcastic, just trying to see things from the other side.

expatinscotland Mon 24-Feb-14 22:26:29

Book your daughter's party on her birthday. Decline the wedding. Sorted. You have your answer.

cerealqueen Mon 24-Feb-14 22:27:03

I agree with PansOnFire - put your daughter first, bottom line is you feel slighted, justly so, so why in those circumstances you feel obliged attend this wedding, and on your daughter's birthday too, is beyond me.

splasheeny Mon 24-Feb-14 22:27:55

Hello I agree this is souring our friendship for me, and am very inclined not to go, but I worry that not going in itself would ruin our friendship.

Back maybe because in these circumstances it would have been the decent thing to do for her to include dd. I realize that she has wedding fever now though.

expatinscotland Mon 24-Feb-14 22:29:27

Why? You might not get the leave, it's costing you a bomb and it means missing your DD's birthday. No 'friend' is worth this.

Sorry, I won't be able to come along.

tiredandsadmum Mon 24-Feb-14 22:31:58

one of my good friends got married for the 3rd time a couple of years ago. I was told the wedding was child-free except for hers, so DS wasnt invited but "D"H was. It was a bad time for me - DH (now ex) was just leaving, following discovery of an affair, so I was expecting a little more support from her.

I was Ok about it all until I got to the wedding reception (very few people invited to the actual wedding) and found 11 children (from mostly neighbours and local friends). That did upset me for some time.

In your situation, I would probably politely decline, send a decent present, and arrange a proper celebration get together after the wedding , so it is clear that you are really happy for her but that logistics just couldn't work for you being there on the day.

likeneverbefore Mon 24-Feb-14 22:33:49

Do I remember you starting a thread about being disappointed to not be a bridesmaid? Apologies if that wasn't you, but the DD birthday thing is ringing a bell now.

I think you need to accept that the two of you aren't as close as you thought you were right now. Maybe that will improve in the future, but I would not waste time, money and effort and a weekend away on my DC birthday for this.

Realistically you'd barely see her on the day anyway.

splasheeny Mon 24-Feb-14 22:34:54

Expat you are right, but at the same time I hear some people saying that if I was a good enough friend I would go. Tbh I think she has shown that she doesn't see me as such a good friend.

YouAreTalkingRubbish Mon 24-Feb-14 22:36:24

If you are taking offence at the bride not inviting your DD then I think it would be unfair on the bride if you went to the wedding. sad I wouldn't have wanted people at my wedding who were pissed off with me.

I had a small family wedding and none of the guests had kids so this wasn't an issue for me but I imagine that I wouldn't want kids other than family members at a wedding.

chunkythighs Mon 24-Feb-14 22:37:18

OP- You're being a total guestzilla!

*She was my bridesmaid- I should be hers!
*My PFB is not invited
*My PFB should be flower girl
*She's only inviting family children- I want her to make an exception for my PFB
*I asked her to make an exception for PFB
*I am taking it personally that she's excluding my PFB

Why are you trying to make this poor girls wedding about you? As I said upthread- go or don't go. But for the love of God, don't take it as some personal slight to you and your PFB. The birthday and childcare issues may (quite rightly) be a big issue in your life- she (quite rightly) has other matters to be concerning herself with.

I'm speaking as a single parent who has often turned down some pretty fantastic nights/days out because of my personal situation. It is quite literally my problem to deal with.

Jux Mon 24-Feb-14 22:38:59

I think your friendship is over, tbh, or at least would benefit from a good long break.

If you go, you will have to leave dd for two days, if not longer, on her 4th birthday. (She will remember, btw, she really will.) You will fell differently about your friend for having to leave dd for so long at one of the most important days of the year for her. Nothing will tell her more strongly that she is not very important to you.

If you don't go, your friend may - may - hold it against you.

Either way, the friendship will ot be the same.

Personally, I would have the best party and day possible for dd. when bride posts pix of her wedding counter it with pix of dd's birthday.

expatinscotland Mon 24-Feb-14 22:39:48

It's a poxy wedding, splash, not going to visit her on her deathbed.

She made it a logistical nightmare.

likeneverbefore Mon 24-Feb-14 22:40:18

Yes, exactly what expat said.

Supercosy Mon 24-Feb-14 22:41:04

I don't think I could leave my Dd on her birthday either, especially when she was 4, but even now that she is a little older.

Yama Mon 24-Feb-14 22:42:23

I wouldn't go.

I would move dd's party to that day and save a lot of money and hassle.

tiggytape Mon 24-Feb-14 22:43:49

She's probably told other guests that it is family children only. If you bring DD she's likely to leave other guests who have either missed the wedding or paid for childcare very unhappy indeed.

Posters urged you to ask because it gave her the chance to change things if she could to enable you to be there. She has said she cannot or will not change things and will therefore will understand that you cannot go now she knows the situation.
You don't have to feel bad about not going but I think it is wrong to ask someone to make an exception and then be affronted when they won't. There is no harm in asking but you should really accept or at least respect her decision now.

tunnocksteacake Mon 24-Feb-14 22:46:35

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Inertia Mon 24-Feb-14 22:47:01

What Expat said.

She's not that bothered whether you go, because otherwise she'd be bending over backwards to make allowances for your DD.

Your DD, on the other hand, will probably be very bothered if her birthday gets cancelled because her parents are at the wedding of someone who will barely notice them.

splasheeny Mon 24-Feb-14 22:49:25

Tiggy there aren't other children, certainly not in our friendship group. I am at an age where friends don't have children.

I'm saying I'm upset here as a way to vent. I havent said like that to her.

BackforGood Mon 24-Feb-14 22:51:37

But, Splash - what on earth makes you think it's "the decent thing" ?
I totally agree with chunkythighs.
When you have children, you have decisions to take about if you want to seek out sitters; or go to a 'do' on your own and leave your dh with your child(ren); or turn the invitation down - all perfectly good options, but they are your choices. The bride has decided what she wants to do for her wedding, and now it's up to you to make one choice from those available. You were so rude to put her on the spot by asking her, but it's done now, and you are still in the position of making the same decision, but have made yourself look like (and I've not seen the word before, but rather like it) a guestzilla. You have 3 options, and it's for you to make, not to make it about the bride.
Everybody who is a parent (and, to be honest, even before we were all parents to a lesser extent) makes decisions about how much they are willing to inconvenience themselves to get to a social 'do'. It gets harder when you are a parent, but it's still a case of balancing how much you want to be there against how difficult it's going to be.
The good news is, in about 15 yrs time, it starts getting a lot easier again and your social life resumes more easily.

HellomynameisIcklePickle Mon 24-Feb-14 22:58:50

I totally understand why you're upset, I would be too.

But you can only see this from your point of view and I think you would dearly love your friend to see it from your side, and invite your daughter.

But you can only change yourself, not other people. Change your mindset to "not going", and then stop letting this suck your happiness.

Supercosy Mon 24-Feb-14 23:04:08

I don't think you were rude at all. Jeez, this is her good friend. I would hope my friends could be honest and open with me and I with them. All OP said really was "it's going to be hard for me to come without Dd" rather than simply turning the invite down and risking the bride saying later down the line "you should've said...we could've sorted something out". I'm sure the bride hasn't combusted, it's hardly an unexpected question in such circumstances.

They are now both much clearer about the situation and OP can make her decision.

ChasedByBees Mon 24-Feb-14 23:05:17

I just wouldn't go. It doesn't have to be the end of your friendship, it's just going to be logistically difficult to go. Be with your DD on her birthday.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Mon 24-Feb-14 23:05:44

OP, the groom may have friends with children.

Sovery, hotel venues will not let you squeeze in a chair and feed an extra guest from your plate. They will charge.

I don't see why you think your friend will be pissedoff if you decline - you have a very sensible reason. What I would do if I were you is either decline or take DD to the hotel and let your DH take her out and you all go for a trip the next day.

YouAreTalkingRubbish Mon 24-Feb-14 23:07:18

I honestly wouldn't be the least bit upset if this happened to me. It wouldn't cross my mind to take it personally and it wouldn't cross my mind to think she should make a special exception for my child. confused

diddl Tue 25-Feb-14 06:43:10

I thought that originally OP you put that it was difficult to get there & you have no childcare?

If that's the case then the decision is surely made for you??

Morgause Tue 25-Feb-14 06:49:04

The groom may have friends with children as well and when it came down to it they had to draw a line somewhere.

I'm sorry if you're upset but numbers at weddings are limited. It isn't always the cost, it's the numbers that the venue will allow. Maybe if your DD was invited an adult friend couldn't be.

savingupforanother Tue 25-Feb-14 07:43:29

If the friendship would end over this, then it's probably run its course anyway. The only thing to do now is step back. Book your daughter's party for her actual birthday and have a great weekend with her. Send your friend a nice card. See how things go. In a few months' time, either you will feel heady to pick up the friendship again - perhaps having reassessed it will- or you will be thinking that you haven't lost much after all.

savingupforanother Tue 25-Feb-14 07:45:36

And I understand that it makes you sad to think about how the friendship has changed. But stepping back is the best way now to secure its survival, if that's what you want. If you go to the wedding you're just going to feel resentful in a whole range of ways.

Writerwannabe83 Tue 25-Feb-14 08:58:29

I agree with chunkythighs - you are being totally irrational!!

I think you are acting quite entitled, spoilt, and precious. Also your obsession with what your daughter's role should be in this Wedding is quite odd to be honest.

Yes you love your daughter, but shock horror, that doesn't mean she's the centre of everyone else's universe too - and especially not an important factor in decisions a woman makes about her own wedding.

I think your upset within this whole thread is more about you feeling 'put out' that you aren't bridesmaid and your daughter isn't a Flower-Girl as opposed to the issue of your daughter's birthday.

If your daughter's enjoyment of her birthday was your primary concern then you would have automatically turned down the Wedding Invite - after all, why on earth would you think your daughter's idea of a fantastic is spending the day at someone's Wedding and probably being bored out of her brain???

Just accept the fact that your friend doesn't want non-related children at the Wedding which is perfectly fine, understandable and totally her choice - it is not a direct attack on you. Tell her you won't be attending as it is your daughter's birthday but you hope she has a lovely day. I'm pretty sure your friend will totally understand and I doubt very much it will "affect and ruin" the friendship.

I really think you need to chill out!!!!

Nanny0gg Tue 25-Feb-14 09:14:11

Honestly? Don't go.

Book your daughter's party for the weekend of her birthday and have a lovely time.

And I would advise realising that your friendship with this woman (probably due to distance) is now on the wane.

wishful75 Tue 25-Feb-14 09:23:10

I think you know your answer now op, don't go. You were right to ask, but she doesn't sound much of a friend to me. I would be gutted if someone I thought of as such a close friend and one of my bridesmaids behaved like this. No way would I sacrifice my daughter's birthday for someone who had shown such little consideration for me. Decline, send best wishes and enjoy your own party.

poopadoop Tue 25-Feb-14 09:29:48

>I have accepted, and told her that if it was anyone else I would just turn >down the invite, but I do want to be there and that is the reason I am >asking

Then go. Celebrate your dd's birthday the previous day or the following week. If you genuinely want to be there, you'll go without your dd. Or decline. If you're a good friend, you'll accept the bride's decision, and if you're a very good friend, you'll do what you can to be there. Your daughter's birthday can be celebrated the day before or week after, your friend's wedding can't.
You're putting pressure on your friend at a time that is probably hugely stressful for her and in this case you should put her needs before yours.

OP, I can see why you feel a bit miffed but you are totally over thinking this.

She is only having family kids there, so that means no other kids....if she makes an exception for you then it opens a whole can of worms for others who do have children.

You say your friends don't have kids but really, do you know all her friends...all her DH's friends.......course you don't. As you said in your original post she moved away and you don't see her often anymore - she has a whole life you know nothing about.

Just decline - I personally wouldn't go away on DS's birthday, it's no big deal. And really, to say she would have been godmother if you had had DD christenened is a non entity - you didn't so she isn't.

You are thinking about this as if you are only only guest and best friend but you aren't.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Tue 25-Feb-14 12:00:07

Wedding planning might have got to her?!?!?! What, because she hasn't given in to you? And as for "wedding fever" why the hell not? She is excited and if she wasn't then why the fuck get married.

I suspect people invite family children because it would be huge if they didn't but don't want to fork out for other children when the cost per child is probably quite a lot.

Maybe she feels if she lets you bring your DD other guests will be annoyed they couldn't bring theirs. Maybe she doesn't want to continue the friendship and thinks this is a way to make it happen.

Maybe, maybe, maybe. You will never know if there is a huge issue with not inviting your daughter so you have to think about what you do know. You decline full stop and see what happens in terms of the friendship after wards. You go alone leaving your DD with her dad and celebrate the birthday another day. If you do it the week before your child will be happy to get presents and cake early and daddy can do something else on the actual day if you felt it necessary.

pluCaChange Tue 25-Feb-14 12:01:39

I wish people would stop telling you to feel offended. Feeling offended is going to ruin your friendship on your side due to resentment, and on hers because you are putting pressure on her rather than being supportive (and being supportive CAN be about easing stress on her. You don't have to "be there", as in this case there are clashes which mean both of you have something to lose.

You don't know what pressures she's under. There's another family involved, and there may be millions of relatives, and friends with children, who need firm boundaries!

She may be telling the truth about "budget reasons", as if guest numbers balloon, they may need a different venue, meaning loss of deposit on this one, etc. And if she is lying that "budget" is her reason for not inviting DD, it could be a face-saving lie. If she's lying to a friend like you, it could be that she knows you will take any rejection of DD very personally (as you have done!).

The bridesmaid/ flowergirl thing is unreasonable on 2 counts. One, she is not obliged to you by tradition, and YOU are her friend, not DD! Two, being BM or flowergirl is actually quite an imposition, so she's inviting you to have fun, not do her the big favours that BMs do. You said you had been working long hours: could you have dedicated the time to organising a hen weekend, not to mention other duties? Not imposing that burden on you might have been kindness!

Please let her juggle family and friendship responsibilities without further pressure.

squoosh Tue 25-Feb-14 12:22:09

Don't go OP, really doesn't sound worth missing your daughter's birthday for. It's just a boring old wedding. Send her a lovely card and gift so she'll know you aren't being huffy.

squoosh Tue 25-Feb-14 12:24:04

OP Only you can tell if you think she's trying to put distance between your friendship. Maybe give that some thought. No point trying to push a friendship if the other party just isn't that bothered.

LuciusMalfoyisSmokingHot Tue 25-Feb-14 12:31:21

Ok, so we know:

1) Its far away and will have to stay overnight
2) Its gonna cost you a small fortune to go
3) Its your DD's birthday
4) You dont really have anyone to have her the weekend
5) You might not even get leave to go

I just wouldnt go, its alot of hassle, if she was really a good friend then she'd understand the issue around going to the wedding. Suggest you meet up afterwards so you can enjoy the wedding pictures.

Somersetlady Tue 25-Feb-14 12:31:48

It sounded like you actually had a good solid friendship there for a while:

You got an invite you weren't happy with
You courted advice before approaching the friend so as not to offend her
You rang the friend and asked if you could have your way at her wedding
Your friend said sorry it's not possible

Then it all fell apart

Instead of accepting her decision you turn into guestzilla or friendzilla and start coming up with reasons in your opinion she is being unreasonable and your way should be the only way for her special day regardless of her own wishes/feelings/choices/budgets.

Having read the entire thread I can not begin to imagine what high maintenance you would have been as a bridesmaid and am starting to feel rather sorry for the bride.

On another note do most 4 year olds not celebrate their birthdays and have their parties on a weekend rather than the day that it falls? Genuine question as my Godchildren and Nephew all do!

mouldyironingboard Tue 25-Feb-14 12:32:39

Some years ago I was invited to my cousin's wedding without my DC. When we arrived I was a bit shocked to see that a mutual friend was there with her DC, whereas mine (who were similar age) had been excluded and I was a first cousin so close family. I asked another friend, who also had young DC, why the friend's children were there and it turned out the friend had nagged the bride so much and so often about how difficult it was to get a babysitter that she had given up saying no to this friend about no children at the wedding! There were no other children at the wedding.

Please don't make this into a huge issue with your friend as she will be under enough pressure with her wedding.

Your DD is the priority here so enjoy her birthday weekend and don't go to the wedding. It really is a no brainer now that you've spoken to your friend.

squoosh Tue 25-Feb-14 12:33:21

No, kids generally celebrate their birthday on their birthday.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Tue 25-Feb-14 12:39:15

Well, in my house we have cake and grandparents on the day where possible and a party for friends on the weekend if happening so we do both sometimes. "Celebrate"` is all relative.

Somersetlady Tue 25-Feb-14 12:41:16

Thanks Sqoosh my nephew turns 3 in March but his party is on a Saturday i just asked dsis why and she said the logistics of hiring the hall and having 25 tired 3 yos was too daunting combined with working mums and with kids of school age having to drop and collect them midweek making it painful so it's obviously the lazy way out!

truelymadlysleepy Tue 25-Feb-14 13:33:46

I feel a bit sad for you splasy.
I suspect you're thinking about what you'd do in her shoes; invite you & have DD as flower girl etc.
But of course she's not you and is doing things her way.
I'd go to the wedding & have a blast having had DDs party beforehand. You're obviously very fond of this friend and you might regret not going.
Chalk in down to experience.

VinoTime Tue 25-Feb-14 13:58:00

Uh... I'm ever so sorry but what kind of best friend demands that you choose between attending her fancy pants wedding and your small child's birthday? hmm

I would absolutely decline the invite. Your daughter is more important. A wedding is not the same as your child's birthday. There is no contest as to which is more important. She will only ever turn 4 once. And if she doesn't/can't understand that, then sadly, perhaps your friendship needs reassessing.

Send your reply and wish her all the best.

olympicsrock Tue 25-Feb-14 14:23:10

I think it was fine to ask and I would have done the same. It's important that she knows that you really wanted to go to allow her the chance the invite DD.
I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. Choose what will make you happiest. Go without DD or miss the wedding and just enjoy the birthday.

Somersetlady Tue 25-Feb-14 14:44:15

vinotime the bride isn't demanding anything it's the OP who thinks it's her DD that should get an invite to the wedding.

Unfortunately for whatever reason it doesnt mean as much to the bride to have the OP at the wedding as to invite the DC. The bride is obviously perfectly willing to accept that not everyone, OP included, will be able to attend on the day for whatever reason and this is a compromise the bride is happy with to have only those she really wants to attend invited.

Life is hard but some friendships obviously mean more to one of the friends than the other and part of what makes us drawn to people or not is how they react in any given situation.

I say good on the bride for not being emotionally blackmailed into have a none family child at a none family child wedding just to please someone else!

Idocrazythings Tue 25-Feb-14 15:10:36

Personally I wouldn't go, but I am at a different stage in my life, and all my good friends are married. So my situation is different to yours. I do have DC the same age though. If you really would like to be there, why don't you tell your dd her birthday is a different day and celebrate it all on that day? I have a friend who did that because they were on holiday and she didn't want to carry around presents, and whatever other reasons she had. Her child never knew. When all your friends are child free apart from you I can imagine it's hard, and that they really don't get it. At the end of the day do what feels best for you.

Idocrazythings Tue 25-Feb-14 15:15:34

I would say vino the type of friend who is young, and doesn't understand about having children and that it isn't easy to just leave them behind. Perhaps in a few years time when the bride has children she will realise the pressure she has put OP under.

Nanny0gg Tue 25-Feb-14 15:19:41

I would say vino the type of friend who is young, and doesn't understand about having children and that it isn't easy to just leave them behind. Perhaps in a few years time when the bride has children she will realise the pressure she has put OP under.

What pressure?

She picked the date she and her OH wanted for their wedding. I doubt they could take into consideration the birthdates of all their potential guests.
They sent invitations to those they wanted to attend.
The guests either go or they don't.

No pressure.

diddl Tue 25-Feb-14 15:21:18

How is OP under pressure??

Her daughter isn't invited & she either goes or not!

She has already said the place is difficult to get to, she might not get annual leave, childcare is a problem!

So it may have been a no even if daughter was invited!

savingupforanother Tue 25-Feb-14 16:19:31

Only partly on topic, but I am always put off by people who have their weddings in hard-to-get-to places that are hours away from where they and many of the guests live. That tells you straight off that the venue is more important to them than the guests, and is often a sign that they aren't bothered how difficult it might be for some guests to attend.

oranges Tue 25-Feb-14 16:22:16

"so it's obviously the lazy way out!" to have a kids birthday party at the closest weekend?? christ, the level of judginess over every miniscule thing is unbelievable.

eddielizzard Tue 25-Feb-14 17:29:31

well for me, i'd find it very hard to choose between a close friend's wedding and my dd's birthday.

do you reckon you could celebrate her birthday as if it were really the week before? would she be any the wiser?

innisglas Tue 25-Feb-14 17:30:03

Well have you talked to your friend yet?

squoosh Tue 25-Feb-14 17:31:42

Yes she did talk to her.

BusinessUnusual Tue 25-Feb-14 18:49:38

Always have parties for a DC at the weekend, as does every other parent I know!

Oriunda Tue 25-Feb-14 19:46:04

You may have been very good friends in the past, but time, distance and circumstances mean that you are just friends now, or even old friends. At least I guess that's how the bride sees it. If you just 'stay in touch' then it's likely she has closer friends now who she sees every week.

I don't think it's fair to criticise her for not inviting your DD. You're an old friend; she'd love to see you there but has clearly stated her reasons for not inviting non-family children. She can't make an exception for you. She may have other, closer, friends that she's also said 'no' to.

likeneverbefore Tue 25-Feb-14 20:06:53

My DS' birthday is in the middle of August and I always have his parties in July before term ends, to whoever said doing it at the weekend was lazy!

What does that make me??!

Oriunda Tue 25-Feb-14 20:15:15

My DS' birthday was during half term week this year. If this happens when he's older and I'm planning a party, it will be held the week before or after. No point having a party if no one is around!

splasheeny Tue 25-Feb-14 21:37:12

I understand that why you would want to move a party to the nearest time when people can make it, but surely everyone does a family celebration on the actual day if this is the case? We have always done a special day for her on her birthday, even if it has been a weekday.

This year its a weekend so we were planning on a big party in her actual birthday.

Peekingduck Tue 25-Feb-14 21:40:37

Op, seriously, just send a letter with very good wishes and decline.

pluCaChange Tue 25-Feb-14 21:57:42

This year its a weekend so we were planning on a big party in her actual birthday.

Well, there you go! smile

She won't be offended if you don't go, and you won't resent her if you're not "there" while missing your DD, wondering about the childcare, etc.

It really ought to be that easy.

BackforGood Tue 25-Feb-14 22:25:01

No Splash - and my dc have had 44 birthdays between them so far, before I start counting nieces, nephews, God Children, random friends - that's quite a lot of experience of birthdays.
Every family does what works for them. There's no compulsion to make a big 'thing' of the particular day, if there is some reason why it's difficult. I can tell you aren't either a Christmas Day or August birthday wink.
With work, and school and life in general, I'm fairly certain it's normal to wake up and open a couple of presents from Mum and Dad before work/school, on the actual day and then hold any celebrations at a time that people can get to them.
My dc have often, over the years, managed to wangle themselves 3 "birthdays" this way.... the actual day, 'tea party' with Grandparents and maybe the odd Aunty/Uncle one weekend, and then 'friends party' maybe a week or two later. It really does make sense if your dc's birthday is in a holiday/near Christmas/right at the start of the Summer Term/During exam time / etc. No point inholding a party if people can't get there.

EverythingCounts Wed 26-Feb-14 08:26:26

Exactly BackForGood. I have only ever once known of a child's birthday party not being on a weekend, and even then it was on a Friday at the end of the school week. A weekday party would be much more rushed and difficult for people to get to.

Oriunda Wed 26-Feb-14 08:28:39

Actual day of DS birthday, DH and I took out to play centre (he's not at school yet). Friday he had a small playdate party with his friends that weren't at nursery that day. Sunday he had the family party with grandparents, aunts and uncles, cousins etc.

Once your DD starts school next year (?) if her birthday falls on a school day you won't be able to take her out of school to have a special day.

poopadoop Wed 26-Feb-14 08:34:46

You know OP, I think as others have suggested, it would be a good idea to put your friend's feelings first without speculating overly much as to why she hasn't invited your daughter. You can be a good friend to her by not putting her under pressure. Try not to be too upset or fall out with her, as otherwise, you'll become even more distant from her, and it will annoy you every time you think back to your own wedding.

In terms of going or not going, only you can decide, but if you do go, do it with good grace and w/o resentment. As everyone has said, you can celebrate your dd's birthday on another day, it really isn't that big a deal.

YouAreTalkingRubbish Wed 26-Feb-14 09:03:32

I guess the wedding is on the Saturday and your DDs birthday is on the Sunday? If you went to the wedding alone and left your DH and your DD at home to prepare for the party is there a reason why you can't get up early on the Sunday morning and get home by midday in plenty of time to celebrate your DDs party?

Helltotheno Wed 26-Feb-14 09:08:12

The birthday is a red herring here though innit.
OP you're miffed about a number of different things, just admit that to yourself and to everyone else. At the back of it all, you're not happy with the way this has played out and I definitely think you should act accordingly and just say it doesn't suit.

In the great scheme of things, your DD will not be on speed dial to the shrink over not having her 4th birthday party on a particular day, or indeed not having it at all... but as I said, that's not the point. Don't use the party as an excuse, just decline the invite and wish your mate the best.

FutTheShuckUp Wed 26-Feb-14 09:14:11

Christ what a drama. If you'd have said in the first place 'I'm sorry but it's DDs birthday' you could have avoided all this. She'd have let you know whether DD was welcome (she isn't) and then you've let her know why you can't/don't want to go.
If you decline now it will look like you are being arsey about DD not being invited. Far too much navel gazing around it all- go or decline.

splasheeny Wed 26-Feb-14 09:42:52

Lol back, I do have an august birthday, and I would still be disappointed if I didn't do something on my birthday.

The birthday isnt a red herring, I do feel guilty about the hours I work, and couldn't miss my daughter's birthday too. Also childcare is an issue. If it was somewhere easy to get to we could sort something out for the evening, but this will be at least overnight.

I can't go along as dp will need to drive. The location would make it impossible to get to by public transport (the bride has said this herself).

I will send a nice letter saying I am very sad not to be there bit just can't make it due to the circumstances.

I think I have done the right thing talking to her as at least now I have tried everything to be able to attend.

Helltotheno Wed 26-Feb-14 09:53:05

Good for you, that's the right decision.

While I'm totally in favour of people doing what suits them for their weddings, they should do it in the knowledge that guests can't be expected to tie themselves in knots either.

You never know, she might realise she wants you there no matter what and have a change of heart. But you've done all you can in the meantime.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Wed 26-Feb-14 11:49:18

I am sure you are disappointed not to be bridesmaid or have the chance to show off your DD as flower girl but the bride wants what she wants and right now it isn't the above.

When you send the card declining do make sure you are gracious and don't write anything that could come across as all about you.

eddielizzard Wed 26-Feb-14 11:56:39

yes, i agree you've handled it well.

Yama Wed 26-Feb-14 16:50:07

Well done Spasheeny. The right decision.

Peekingduck Wed 26-Feb-14 17:13:50

You see, I wouldn't say "due to the circumstances", even that is a bit of a dig. Just write and say you can't be there on the day but will be thinking of them on their special day. Wish them all the very best and tell them you will look forward to hearing all about it when you see them.

apermanentheadache Wed 26-Feb-14 20:14:26

Good on you. I reckon you made a good decision.

splasheeny Thu 27-Feb-14 07:54:25

Peeking duck I wont write those exact words but will be honest and say I can't leave dd on her birthday, and don't have childcare. She may not understand this at the moment, but when she has children she will do. Of course I will write a nice letter.

sunshinemmum Thu 27-Feb-14 07:59:26

I think you could ask given the circumstances and perhaps miss the wedding if she says no.

YouAreTalkingRubbish Thu 27-Feb-14 09:04:20

Splash. I wouldn't say that unless you definitely want to end the friendship. If you want to end the friendship why don't you quietly drop her. I don't see what is to be gained by sending anything other than a pleasant card.

OwlinaTree Thu 27-Feb-14 09:31:28

There is nothing worse then people saying to the childless 'when you have children you'll understand' even though it is probably true.

Be careful how you phrase it in the letter!

splasheeny Thu 27-Feb-14 09:58:45

Okay this isn't clear, the part about not understanding I wasn't going to write! I'm just saying that here.

I will just send a nice letter saying I would like to be there but unfortunately can't due to childcare and dd's birthday. Wishing all the best etc. Nothing controversial!

Somersetlady Thu 27-Feb-14 10:27:37

If you need DP to drive you i still dont see why you cant go if you really wanted to and take DD then do something lovely with DD and DP on the day itself and attend the evening part alone then do something lovely again with DD perhaps on the way home on the Sunday?

Surely this would meet you i want to go to the wedding amd i want to soend dDs birthday with her all in one?

DD is likely to always remember her little adventure!

splasheeny Sat 01-Mar-14 19:52:38

Somerset I do really want to attend, but what you suggested wouldn't really be practical or fair on dd or dh. This isn't an area with anything local for children.

Probably the only way I could go would be if someone gave me a lift, and I went alone, leaving dd with dh, but missing her birthday.

I looked through her wedding blog out of interest and she has put a whole entry about how she doesn't want toddlers having tantrums or babies crying, and how she would expect children to ruin the day but she has to have family ones. I'm a bit surprised as I thought she liked children, but oh well.

BusinessUnusual Sat 01-Mar-14 20:00:28

Wow, she may find a lot of family with children cancel if they read that!

Bearbehind Sat 01-Mar-14 20:08:16

splash, don't worry about it, anyone who is self absorbed enough to have a wedding blog (unless they are a professional blogger), has their head so far up their own arse that they won't even notice if you are there or not.

FabBakerGirl Sat 01-Mar-14 20:19:58

We sure aren't a child loving country are we sad?

At our wedding the youngest child was 7 ish I think and he was perfectly behaved and even if he hadn't have been it wouldn't have mattered. Things weren't quite as we would have wanted on the day but really it doesn't matter as all that really matters is marrying the person you love.

To my shame the only thing I did do which was wrong was seat the only family with younger children right at the end of the table away from us.

splasheeny Sat 01-Mar-14 20:42:48

Bakergirl you are right.

I have family in Israel and they recoil in horror at the idea if a child free wedding (or child free anything for that matter). Children are a key part of the culture, and are welcomed everywhere. I would move there if we could afford it!

It seems that this wedding has made her rather self absorbed I agree. She is not normally like this.

pluCaChange Sat 01-Mar-14 21:25:26

Not necessarily "self-absorbed." Maybe she wrote that for a damned good reason! We had children at our wedding, but I respect people's right to do it differently. You're just looking for excuses to dislike her now.

splasheeny Sat 01-Mar-14 21:28:46

Lol Plu I have said I don't dislike her. Not inviting children is one thing, but writing a blog entry about how terrible it would be to have children is another.

I thought it was correct etiquette to call people up with children prior to sending invites and explain that you regretfully can't have their children, and understand if they can't make it.

EverythingCounts Sat 01-Mar-14 21:31:47

Like BearBehind I'm hmm at the wedding blog. I don't imagine her family will be thrilled to read that their children are only there under sufferance either!

OP, I will bet that in one of life's wonderfully ironic twists, she will have a child further down the line and will then become one of the most precious mamas you could ever meet.

splasheeny Sat 01-Mar-14 21:34:26

Everything you are probably right. She says she wants children soon too. It doesn't quite fit together.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Sat 01-Mar-14 21:38:03

OP, I had a child free wedding. I work with children, I see them everyday and I wanted just one day child free. I told my friends a good year in advance. Does that make me self absorbed?

Seriously OP, this wedding doesn't revolve around you. If you want to spend the day celebrating your DD's birthday, then do so. If you want to go to the wedding and celebrate it the next day then do so. It doesn't have to be this hard.

Wedding blogs, I don't get. No-one cares that much.

dementedmumof6 Sat 01-Mar-14 21:48:14

I can understand the no children thing, when my stbxh and I got married we took 2 friends as witnesses (had family dynamics to avoid ) and did it in quite a famous place for weddings that is open to the public.

Where a couple with a 2children one a toddler one older stood and watched, and all you can hear in the wedding video is the toddler screaming its head off and the elder child asking repeatedly whats happening and instead of moving on they stayed for the entire ceremony and that was just 2 children so hate to think how much noise a number of children would have made.

francesdrake Sat 01-Mar-14 21:51:15

The last three weddings I've been to, I've missed the vows completely because of children crying or talking or singing through them. All the way through them. Perfectly behaved children at weddings are a delight; badly parented ones can really wreck the one truly significant moment in the whole day. Unfortunately there's no way of only inviting perfectly behaved children, and maybe there are lots of rowdy ones on the other side. Plus, people who don't have children haven't developed that low-level tolerance for background noise that parents often have. I don't think it's 'self-absorbed' to want to ensure the attention's on the wedding ceremony, rather than on crowd control. I can't remember ever being invited to family weddings until I was well over ten, and even then we were read the Riot Act about making any noise at all until we were at the reception.

perfectstorm Sat 01-Mar-14 21:53:07

The last three weddings I've been to, I've missed the vows completely because of children crying or talking or singing through them.

I missed the bloody vows at my son's godfather's wedding because he started getting fractious, and so I took him straight out. Had sat by the doors for that reason.

Parents who don't do the job title over really important stuff (and IMO, this is) annoy me.

perfectstorm Sat 01-Mar-14 21:53:36

Er, DS got fractious. Not his godfather. That would have been a wedding to remember.

SybilRamkin Sat 01-Mar-14 21:53:48

I've just read this entire thread - OP you sound like a nightmare wedding guest, and I bet the bride wishes she'd never invited you!

It's not your wedding, you don't get to decide on the guest list - inviting lots of kids to a wedding = chaos. Some couples might be happy to accept this, but a lot would prefer their special day to be a more adult celebration, and since they're probably paying through the nose for it, their word goes!

"I think the obsession with the wedding may be getting to her a bit."
OMG, I cannot believe you wrote this - it's her bloody wedding day, she can choose whom she invites!

Politely decline the invitation, send a card, spend the day with your DD.

galletti Sat 01-Mar-14 21:57:48

Sybil - have you really read the entire thread? Even the last posts by the OP?

splasheeny Sat 01-Mar-14 22:14:20

This is aibu, people like to get outraged it seems!

I am referring to wedding blog as evidence of being self absorbed.

A potted history here for anyone who wants to get outraged without reading the whole thread (and Sybil that includes you, if you had read it you would know I'm not attending):

Very good friend getting married, dd not invited. I call her and let her know that we would have difficulties with childcare and birthday if dd is not invited. She confirms she doesn't want dd. I accept, saying I'm only asking as I really do want to go. I find later that she has made a rather derogatory wedding blog post about children. I will RSVP (by letter, as per etiquette) not attending as we simply can't make it. This will of course be a nice letter.

chunkythighs Sat 01-Mar-14 23:11:17

Wow splash if you speak of your 'very good friends' as being 'self absorbed', I'd hate to hear you bitch about someone you don't like!.(if you care to think back, you may have been pretty excited about your own wedding day!!). Did the poor woman insist you read her blog?

Self absorbed? Try looking in the mirror!

splasheeny Sat 01-Mar-14 23:25:05

The blog is showing her to be self absorbed. I certainly wasn't the first to say it.

Btw the links to it are all over facebook.

BrianTheMole Sat 01-Mar-14 23:25:14

I don't know chunky, I was pretty excited about my wedding day, but the most important things to me (aside from marrying my dh of course) were making sure the guests were happy, well fed, comfortable, and had a really good day as well. And if that meant they wanted their children there, then thats what I wanted to. I think sometimes people lose sight of that in their quest for it to be their special day and all about them. Our wedding day was about us, but it was also about the people that were celebrating with us. I wanted them to be happy, genuinely happy.

TheFabulousIdiot Sat 01-Mar-14 23:31:05

Just don't get this stuff.

If you get an invite for a wedding but your child is not invited do 't take it personally.

Either you can go without the child(ren) or you can't. If you can't then politel decline.

Really it is that simple.

chunkythighs Sat 01-Mar-14 23:48:17

brian You had the day you wanted-why shouldn't this couple? You had the budget and the space for all the children you wanted- maybe this couple don't. Why should they be put in such an awkward position as to reiterate that the child is not invited? Lets face it, we only have the OPs word that her daughter will be well behaved at the wedding. The bride could have witnessed other behaviours that may be leading this decision.

Would you seriously be OK with a guest that not only wanted her daughter invited (for some bizarre birthday/wedding hybrid celebration), to be a bridesmaid AND the child to be flower girl?

The OP has veered from accepting the brides decision to bitching about her. Her daughter is not the centre of the brides universe, and that is perfectly normal. However the OP has taken this personally for some unknown reason.

Decision made, sending a nice card. Put something lovely on her FB page on the day and leave it at that. Regarding the friendship, see how you feel later on. Personally I wouldn't think less of a friend not inviting DD to something, I'd take it that they wanted us there to have a nice time without her grin

TBH I can't think of many worse things than taking DD at 4yo to a wedding.

BackforGood Sun 02-Mar-14 00:24:47

I thought it was correct etiquette to call people up with children prior to sending invites and explain that you regretfully can't have their children, and understand if they can't make it.

Seriously ? Some people on MN live in a different universe from me.
Why on earth would anybody, arranging any sort of an event, phone people up to explain that they don't want you bringing along people who aren't invited ? shock
Perhaps they should ring people with elderly parents too, as a lot of people have caring responsibilities there.
Of course, they mustn't forget to ring all the people with pets, just to tell them that they can't bring their pets. hmm

splasheeny Sun 02-Mar-14 00:28:22

Chunky you are making things up now. I never said I wanted all those things. I am venting here, that's all. I originally posted here for opinions, but some people like you seem to like being nasty. FWIW my dd has always been well behaved around the bride, and as is evidenced by her blog post she doesn't like children full stop at weddings.

splasheeny Sun 02-Mar-14 00:30:13

Back because it is correct etiquette. Same as inviting the vicar and his wife to the wedding breakfast. Because not inviting children makes it hard for people to attend, and also it is better to speak to people to avoid any ambiguity about the matter.

BrianTheMole Sun 02-Mar-14 00:31:46

Would you seriously be OK with a guest that not only wanted her daughter invited (for some bizarre birthday/wedding hybrid celebration), to be a bridesmaid AND the child to be flower girl?

Ermm, well yeah I would have been tbh. Because the only people that came to our wedding were close friends and family. We didn't do the A list, B list thing. So if a child had wanted to be a flower girl I'd have found them a cheap dress on ebay. If the mum had wanted to be a bridesmaid then that would be cool, although they would have had to looked through their wardrobe for something dressy or beg borrowed or bought themselves an ebay one. But really, if any of the guests had wanted to do that, that really would have been fine. And our budget was fairly small in terms of weddings anyway. It was under 4000 inc food, venue and clothes.

BackforGood Sun 02-Mar-14 00:34:35

Of course it's not correct etiquette - you're talking nonsense now.
There isn't any ambiguity. If their name isn't on the invitation, then they are not invited. How is that unclear?

scottishmummy Sun 02-Mar-14 00:37:22

If it's inconvenient politely decline.no you cannot insist (as suggested) she accomodate dd

splasheeny Sun 02-Mar-14 00:41:24

Back it is, you are talking nonsense. I suggest you look at a wedding forum, or magazine if you doubt me rather than being rude here.

I have not insisted on anything to the bride, and have certainly not mentioned being bridesmaid or dd being a flower girl. I only spoke to her to see if there was a solution, as there isn't we won't be going.

BrianTheMole Sun 02-Mar-14 00:41:42

but some people like you seem to like being nasty.

Although I have to say chunky isn't a nasty person. In fact she's incredibly lovely. She won't know me now because of a million name changes later, but she has gone out of her way to be very kind to me in the past, and I appreciate her for that.

scottishmummy Sun 02-Mar-14 00:45:02

Look,she's not obliged to accomodate your dd at her wedding.its a disappointment
Decline politely,but dont hold a grudge on it.Don't lose a good pal over this

WTFlike Sun 02-Mar-14 00:46:12

Splash, I'll Paypal you a tenner for the link the the blog. I bet it's hilarious.

splasheeny Sun 02-Mar-14 00:52:31

Wtf thanks for the offer.. I don't think it would be ethical however!

Seriously though I don't want to out her (or me!).

splasheeny Sun 02-Mar-14 00:53:32

Pressed send too soon.. I am sure a quick google would yield lots of similar blogs (and maybe even hers).

WTFlike Sun 02-Mar-14 01:03:36

It baffles me, this wedding shizzle. Imagine the comedown afterwards?

Enjoy your baby's birthday, it's more important.

splasheeny Sun 02-Mar-14 01:09:30

Thank you. I had a quick google and found lots of similar blogs, they all show an unhealthy obsession with a single day. (And asking for money, a big mumsnet faux pas).

I agree with you that some people focus too much on the wedding, rather than the marriage.

scottishmummy Sun 02-Mar-14 01:24:02

Look,your daughter isn't the brides priority.youre child won't be traumatised missing a wedding

YankeeMum8 Sun 02-Mar-14 04:53:16

If she was not invited (which I think is bad form if other children are going to be there, I'm of the nature it's all or nothing to avoid hurt feelings) I would simply offer your apologies and not go.

If it did come up as to why you weren't going you could in a non confrontational way (almost like you were talking about someone else ) that it was dd's birthday and even so you didn't have a child minder (said sadly) and see what happens. She might ask you to bring her, of Course she is welcome. If nothing comes forth, I'd just end on a good note and realize that once you have children everything changes.

MintyChops Sun 02-Mar-14 05:46:03

Sounds like you are doing the right thing, hope your DD's birthday party is great fun.

Have googled a few of the wedding blogs; bloody hell!!!! My favourite quote from a charmless bride to be about how to decide the guest list was "We are reimagining wedding guests as units requiring 12 hours of free food and drink, which helps our tight fists make some hard decisions". Wow.

OwlinaTree Sun 02-Mar-14 07:08:35

We are reimagining wedding guests as units requiring 12 hours of free food and drink, which helps our tight fists make some hard decisions

Wow hope I get an invite to that one, sounds like a barrel of laughs!

mustbetimefortea Sun 02-Mar-14 09:46:43

OP did the blogpost appear after you asked the question? If so you may be the only one to query the child free policy and she is trying to stop other non family members asking.

I think it would be unfair on your dd to prioritise this friend's wedding over her birthday. At that age she will know it is her special day even if her party is on a different day.

It doesn't sound like you will know many of the non family guests and you will remember how little time you get with your guests, so if you go on your own it could be a pretty lonely day. Plus it might emphasize that you are not as close as you once were.

Don't go but arrange to see the dvd afterwards. If she's blogging no doubt you'll get a link to the official photos and there may even be live video streaming of the actual day..

splasheeny Sun 02-Mar-14 14:05:58

The blog was written before I asked, but I hadn't read it till afterwards.

I will know lots of the other guests, which is why I know that the 'children' issue is a bit of a non issue: other friends don't have children.

Even if dd were to be invited now (and I highly doubt that) I wouldn't go as I wouldn't want her to be there under suferance.

chunkythighs Sun 02-Mar-14 21:07:08

Brian I'm humbled, but no doubt that the the op thinks I'm a right cow. For what it's worth-I sodded off and eloped to avoid all this crap, so I'm o no one to compare to.

But the OP clearly changes her mind as what she expects many times- QUOTE
*splasheeny Sun 23-Feb-14 16:49:24
I do agree that she must not value our friendship as much now to not invite me to be bridesmaid/not invite daughter to be flower girl and not even invite her.*

*splasheeny Sat 22-Feb-14 14:46:38
A very good friend is getting married, she was my only bridesmaid when I got married. She has moved away from me and I don't see her very often now, but we do stay in touch. I was hurt she didn't ask me to be bridesmaid, but haven't said anything.*

*splasheeny Sun 02-Mar-14 00:28:22
Chunky you are making things up now. I never said I wanted all those things*

SPLASH I'm quoting your own words, you are clear in your expectations of your place in this girls wedding. Where am I wrong? Life is complicated she just can't accommodate your childcare needs for her wedding. You know this girl and should make the call as to whether or not this is a conscience decision and if so why.....

Life is too short to take it personally. <thickskinned me! grin>

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