to think that pregnant does not have to mean classless and entitled...

(79 Posts)
glasgowsteven Tue 18-Feb-14 11:07:09
NeonMuffin Tue 18-Feb-14 11:09:57

I think it's quite sad that no one gave up their seat for her, but I do agree that expecting to sit in first class is very entitled.

SoonToBeSix Tue 18-Feb-14 11:12:04

I guess by your name you have never been pregnant.

SaucyJack Tue 18-Feb-14 11:12:41

Really? You'd really rather an ill, pregnant paying customer sat on the floor than in an otherwise empty seat?

FoxesRevenge Tue 18-Feb-14 11:12:58

Her tone in the article is rather entitled. Sad that no one offered her a seat but then we don't know the circumstances of the other passengers near to her do we.

vix1980 Tue 18-Feb-14 11:13:17

It says in the article that the train company in question have a "policy" that entitles pregnant women to a first class automatically.

She didnt just ask on the off chance, the policy was there for anyone to use if pregnant, it was when the person in charge on that train then refused her as you suddenly had to be a season pass holder to get the first class pregnancy ticket.

Which it says at the bottom the company dont agree with. I agree though that nobody gave up their seat for her.

HowManyUsernamesAreThere Tue 18-Feb-14 11:17:30

"Special Pregnancy Pass"? Never heard of such a thing.

Trains are packed nowadays - so much so that they're basically not really fit for purpose. On the ones I get all the seats are regularly taken up, meaning I stand all the way - a trip of about one and a half hours each way.

But a lot of the time I stand out of choice - I'll get on a train and stand until everyone else gets on, then see if there are any seats free. There are a lot of people who require a seat more than I. Only then, if there is a seat, will I sit down. Most of the time there aren't and there's a LOAD of people still standing (not to mention the food/drinks trolley trying to squeeze through).

Still, I would hope that a person who needs to sit down, for whatever reason (whether they are elderly, disabled or indeed pregnant - not all pregnant people need to sit but it would certainly help some) be given a seat.

divisionbyzero Tue 18-Feb-14 11:24:20

It is in everyone's interests to look after pregnant people, and only requires the most basic level of human decency - you would expect your average career thief to still give their seat up for a pregnant woman.

A healthy adult who sits happily in their seat while a pregnant woman sits on the floor is pretty much behaving like an entirely worthless person, and no doubt they know that the whole time.

JakeBullet Tue 18-Feb-14 11:24:37

What a lovely OP hmm

Gingeroo Tue 18-Feb-14 11:30:14

She does come across as a bit entitled.

My train company didn't offer special passes until I think you were 36 weeks gone and I travelled in 5 days a week. (Never bothered to get one either).

Although I have my fair share of commuting horror stories whilst pregnant I'm sure a whole carriage of people wouldn't have left a pregnant woman feeling unwell if they had known. I used to get embarrassed asking for a seat when I needed it but perhaps she should have shouted a bit louder if she was feeling so unwell?

It's not the train companies fault people are rude & inconsiderate.

prepares to be flamed

Indith Tue 18-Feb-14 11:30:36

Where does it say that she is ill?

Doesn't say how long her journey was. Did she have to sit down, could she have stood? Was it that she needed to sit or would she have preferred to sit? Anyone pregnant or not would be more comfortable sitting. I've had bits of my pregnancies where I have really needed to sit and couldn't have managed a train journey standing. I've had bits of my pregnancies where I could have happily stood up no problem at all.

How many people did she ask? Did she ask? Never says she did, just says nobody gave up their seat.

The train company are perhaps lacking in interpersonal skills. The train guard could have said that in the future she would need to pay but that on this occasion given that the train was so full she could sit in first class. Or the guard could have asked someone to move.

Pregnancy is not an illness. However some women in pregnancy do struggle and need a seat which is why buses and trains have seats for the elderly, disabled and pregnant. The guard would have been perfectly entitled to ask someone sitting in those seats who was able bodied to move for her so ultimately the guard has failed in their duties but she sounds very woe is me and entitled.

UriGeller Tue 18-Feb-14 11:33:05

I understand you might have a desire to wade in with the Mumsnet mot du jour "entitled" to increase some dubious cachet it may gain for you.

But in this case, I think, yes, a pregnant woman most definitely is entitled by way of her condition, to be seated on a train journey.

Like she would be entitled to free prescriptions, free dental care and <shock horror> paid time off after giving birth. This must appall you.

Gingeroo Tue 18-Feb-14 11:33:14

Phew, Indith, glad I'm not the only one thinking like that.

Safety in numbers wink

TheArticFunky Tue 18-Feb-14 11:34:26

I disagree. If she was unwell I can't see why she should not be allowed a seat in an empty first class carriage.

Years ago I fell ill on a journey from hell and took myself off to the first class carriage as there were no seats in second class. When the ticket inspector came he didn't batter an eyelid.

I hate the fact that there are empty first class carriages on trains and people herded together like animals in standard class. Abolish first class and make room for everyone.

Gingeroo Tue 18-Feb-14 11:40:02

ArcticFunky - that's almost a different argument. As a commuter I absolutely believe 1st class should be stopped. Why should I pay £5000 a year to sit on the floor /stand twice a day. Pregnant or not.

Gingeroo Tue 18-Feb-14 11:40:45

Oops, meant to add, when there are sometimes at least 3 empty 1st class sections. That makes me cross.

WooWooOwl Tue 18-Feb-14 11:41:05

I think the train companies policy as described in the article is a fair one, and this woman does come across as overly entitled.

IRCL Tue 18-Feb-14 11:41:33

I always give up my seat for anyone who needs it more than me.

It's just manners isn't it?

I was quite ill in my pregnancy, low BP combined with anemia meant I had a tendency to faint anywhere and everywhere. blush

As a child we were on a train and there weren't any seats and the inspector told us to go sit in first class and relax, thought that was really kind of him.

MerylStrop Tue 18-Feb-14 11:42:03

Train company are ridiculous for not letting her sit in first class on this occasion, or indeed in any similar circumstance.

Fellow travellers are a bit despicable for not offering her a seat. Though if you've paid for a ticket, there ought to be enough seats made available. I'd always stand if there was someone more in need but surely guard should be able to use discretion to seat people, especially obviously pregnant and distressed people.

IRCL Tue 18-Feb-14 11:43:16

Also what is so special about first class? Think you might get a small light on your table? Not that you would even need that in the day. confused and it might be a bit quieter? Not worth the extra money IMO but then again I'm tight.grin

MerylStrop Tue 18-Feb-14 11:44:20

Must say the mere fact that she has gone to the Daily Hatemail predisposes me to think she is entitled and a bit silly, though.

Can't be good for your career as a communications manager, surely

WireCat Tue 18-Feb-14 11:44:40

I think it's a disgusting state of society that nowadays on public transport, people don't willingly offer seats to older people, pregnant ladies & disabled people.

This is just a reflection on society in general.

Regardless of whatever and however that daily mail article is portrayed.

Indith Tue 18-Feb-14 11:46:48

I am a bit hmm at attacking the other passengers. It never says that she directly asked anyone. I jsut says nobody moved. I personally would always stand and let someone who needed a seat sit down but when commuting I am squished in like a sardine, can't see who is getting on the train and usually reading. I don't automatically look up at each stop to see if someone in need is getting on. They would need to ask me.

MeadowHeartshimmertheFairy Tue 18-Feb-14 11:47:53

My train company had this policy, you had to send a copy of your Mat 1B (is that the right form?) or a letter from your doctor and they issued a pass letter allowing you to sit in first class if there were no other seats available. Seemed to be targeted at season-ticket holders but don't remember it being specified in the wording

scottishmummy Tue 18-Feb-14 11:50:23

I would most certainly give pg woman my seat.it's good manners

ProfondoRosso Tue 18-Feb-14 11:50:35

That article is from the DM. Who knows to what extent they edited her words to make her sound sufficiently 'Outraged of Tunbridge Wells'?

IMO, letting a pregnant woman sit on the floor is just bullshit. Fuck blitz spirit and stiff upper lips - she's 5 months pregnant, feeling woozy. She shouldn't be sitting on a train floor when something could have been done about it, whether that means a fellow passenger giving her their seat or a member of staff allowing her to sit elsewhere.

WireCat Tue 18-Feb-14 11:51:43

The problem is, in our society, nowadays, noone gives a shit about anyone else.

sydlexic Tue 18-Feb-14 12:01:17

The idea of first class carriages, which remain empty, is ridiculous. People pay to travel on the train and are uncomfortable and unsafe because half the carriages are saved for some mythical creature who is prepared to pay more for a doily on their headrest.

ExBrightonBell Tue 18-Feb-14 12:15:20

I heard her being interviewed on the radio this morning, and her main issue seems to be about not getting the first class upgrade because she only travels for 3 days and so doesn't have a season ticket. This is a completely separate issue in my mind to the passengers ignoring her.

She said in the interview that she did say to the people around her that she was feeling unwell and they did hear her because they had to move to let her sit down. However, I do feel she should have been a lot more assertive. It would not have been possible for the other passengers to have ignored me if I was in her position! I would have been tapping them on the shoulder, talking loudly in their ears, and so on to get my point across. I would have been roping in likely looking passengers to help me ask the nearest people sitting down to move etc.

I am also a bit puzzled because I thought most trains had priority seats these days for elderly, disabled, pregnant passengers or those carrying children. Southern certainly do on the line that I use the most. I would (and have) asked anyone sitting there to move, if they didn't fall into the categories mentioned. I became quite expert at knowing which carriages and where these seats were, and making a beeline for them. Always apart from 1 time, people automatically moved or didn't go to sit there when they saw me and my massive bump getting on the train.

The woman in question doesn't make any mention of whether she wanted to sit in the priority seats or not.

As a general rule, I always stand and offer my seat to anyone who looks like they need it more than me, or who has reasonably asked for it. I would never ignore someone who had sunk to the floor, clearly saying they were unwell.

MoominIsGoingToBeAMumEEEEK Tue 18-Feb-14 12:35:16

She sounds entitled, but I hate how these articles bring out the 'pregnancy is not an illness' comments from people, and the high-flying super-mummies who climbed Everest and ran a marathon the day before they gave birth and would never have taken someone else's seat on the tube/bus saying "None of us need it, actually!".

I've had to give up supermarket shopping at 30 weeks and send DP every time. Low BP and anaemia causing me to faint at random. My muscles are stretching to breaking point in four different directions and yes, sometimes I do need to sit down. My pregnancy is feeling very much like an illness, actually grin

divisionbyzero Tue 18-Feb-14 12:50:37

I agree with UriGeller - well said.

As for directly asking - people should not need to be asked even at a really minimal level of giveashit. The exception to this is if the bump is not visible.

If the bump is visible, and you have a whole train carriage full of people without one person with the minimal level of human decency needed to say "here, there's a seat here if you want it", well it's a shame there wasn't a big hole they could have run the train into, because what is the point of them.

Pigsmummy Tue 18-Feb-14 12:57:21

I live on this line, Journey would have been 20/30 minutes, the train could be so packed that you wouldn't be able to walk to find a guard or move to first class. The other passengers were shit in not offering her a seat if she had mentioned or been visibly heavily pregnant. Top tip for pregnant travellers is to wear your badge and ask for a seat if you need one. I never got refused but only asked when I really needed to sit down or at risk of falling.

The idea of a pass for first class is a good one, as you would head straight to first class and not try to broker a seat or try to get through a packed train. I didn't know this existed for pregnancy and would try for one next time (hopefully) I am pregnant. I think southwest trains will be unindated by requests now for the pass. Well done Daily Fail for actually being helpful in bringing the pass information into the public domain.

OP YABU. You have a go at trying to balance whilst carrying about 3 stone on your stomach with weakened ligaments and a widened pelvis on a fast moving, packed train.

RedFocus Tue 18-Feb-14 13:17:52

Like the train company said if she felt ill she should have found a guard or pulled the chain it's not rocket science.

HappyMummyOfOne Tue 18-Feb-14 13:34:37

Yes people should have let her sit if needed but running off to be interviewed and in the paper does smack of being entitled.

There seem to be two kinds of women, those who just get on with pregnancy as though its any other day and those that become entitled, expect to be waited on hand and foot, cant do anything and seem to think they are the first person to ever have a child.

differentnameforthis Tue 18-Feb-14 13:40:46

Making a pregnant, poorly woman sit on the floor of a train just shows what disgustingly bad manners some people have these days.

zebbidy Tue 18-Feb-14 13:42:42

Agree with urigellar

ExBrightonBell Tue 18-Feb-14 13:45:28

RedFocus, I agree, she could have done that (assuming she could have reached the emergency cord, sounds like the passengers wouldn't have helped her there!).

HOWEVER, as a basic bit of human empathy, whilst the train was pulling into the next station after pulling the emergency cord, someone should have got her sat down properly on a chair.

Also, what if she had been feeling unwell, but not to the point of needing an ambulance. This is often the case in pregnancy. Surely it is reasonable to ask for a seat in this circumstance?

Are you genuinely saying that you would watch someone sink to the floor, clearly unwell, and just sit on your arse thinking "well they should pull the emergency cord".

JakeBullet Tue 18-Feb-14 13:46:42

Does it say WHY she wanted to sit down? Pelvic pain etc.....

As a midwife I can recall women with various issues struggling into London by train....simply becaise they had to work.

It isn't "entitled" (hate that bloody word tbh) to want to be able to sit down.

Btw....I notice the OP didn't come backhmm

oldgrandmama Tue 18-Feb-14 13:50:46

I agree that it's crass and bad mannered not to offer one's seat to the pregnant woman - I'd certainly have offered her mine and I'm in my seventies with dodgy hips and knees.

I know I'm petty, but why does the DM insist on photographing pregnant women always patting their bump? We can SEE she's pregnant.

eurochick Tue 18-Feb-14 13:51:08

I suspect there was no guard to be seen. I've never seen one on my commuter trains.

She does sound entitiled in her attitude, but I think she has a point. If full time workers holding a train pass are entitled to sit in 1st class past a certain point in their pregnancies, then part time workers should have the same entitlement.

I'm pretty disgusted at the other passengers anyway. Surely it is common decency to allow someone feeling ill to sit down, whetehr pregnant or not.

Indith Tue 18-Feb-14 13:58:09

There must have been a guard if she was refused permission to sit in first class by a guard.

I repeat my point that the train service was ultimately at fault as it should have been up to them to ask someone to move from a priority seat if they were not going to allow her to sit in first class.

AS for her, we've all said it. We don't know if she wanted to sit down just because she is pregnant or because she is struggling due to pregnancy. I am well aware that many women struggle in pregnancy, just as many women feel perfectly fine and fit and able to stand. We do 't know if she actually asked people or not. We don't know a lot of things.

JakeBullet Tue 18-Feb-14 14:00:55

" AS for her, we've all said it. We don't know if she wanted to sit down just because she is pregnant or because she is struggling due to pregnancy. I am well aware that many women struggle in pregnancy, just as many women feel perfectly fine and fit and able to stand. We do 't know if she actually asked people or not. We don't know a lot of things. "

...and yet that hasn't stopped people here from judging her as "entitled"...which says more about them that it does her.

ReadyToPopAndFresh Tue 18-Feb-14 14:01:41

Hmmm so season pass holders get upgraded. How come? Either pregnant women need the seat or they don't. Why is the health and and safety of an occasionnal commuter less important to them. If she was woozy and fell over they'd have alot more bad publicity then this.

Shame no fucker would stand up and give her a seat though!

Gruntfuttock Tue 18-Feb-14 14:02:04

I would have given her my seat without being asked. I would have been pain because of arthritis, but I would've done it all the same.

Just goes to show how utterly lovely I am. <preen preen>

ExBrightonBell Tue 18-Feb-14 14:03:38

It isn't explained very well in the DM article, but the conversation about being allowed in first class happened at a separate time to the sitting on the floor train incident. She went to apply for an upgrade, but was told she didn't qualify due to not having a season ticket. The woman in question explained it more clearly when she was Radio 5 this morning.

NewtRipley Tue 18-Feb-14 14:07:30

Blimey, so expecting a bit of care and consideration from others is "entitled". Glad I've been told

SilverOldie Tue 18-Feb-14 14:15:04

When I lived and worked in London and because of my disability was allowed to drive to the office with parking available.

On one of the few days I couldn't take my car I would use the underground. No-one ever gave up their seat, even though some were designated for those with a disability or pregnant etc. It would often be a city 'gent' sitting in the seat while I stood in front of him trying to balance on two sticks. They would look me up and down and open their newspaper wider to hide me from view.

On one occasion a guy standing suggested the man give me the seat, which was met with a snort and he ignored us both. Nice.

I have on more than one occasion given my seat to a pregnant women who looked to be struggling more than me.

I just hope karma gets some of these people but unfortunately won't be there to see it.

NewtRipley Tue 18-Feb-14 14:17:00

OP

What did you mean by the word "classless"? I don't think it makes sense in the context of your post.

BumpNGrind Tue 18-Feb-14 14:17:13

When are we going to be a society that thinks its important for pregnant women to be entitled to a seat? Do we still need to be in a debate whether a pregnant woman should want a seat, surely we should give her the option of deciding herself.

This train company has a policy which applies to some but not to all. This is unfair and it should be the case that if you pay the price of a ticket you are afforded the same rights as someone who has paid for a season ticket.

Littletabbyocelot Tue 18-Feb-14 14:56:33

HappyMummyOfOne: 'There seem to be two kinds of women, those who just get on with pregnancy as though its any other day and those that become entitled, expect to be waited on hand and foot, cant do anything and seem to think they are the first person to ever have a child.'

Well, I definitely don't think that that I should be waited on hand and foot, or that I'm the first person ever to be pregnant. However, when I'm not pregnant I don't faint or projectile vomit if I stand for too long. So I can't exactly carry on as normal.

I think her point is that she wants to avoid the situation occurring. I've had a couple of bad 'woozy' episodes and basically it's all I can do to sit down and not faint. At that stage, finding the pull cord or asking round for a seat would have been beyond me.

I won't travel on a peak train without a booked seat for this reason - but I don't think South West trains do seat bookings, so she obviously needs a different solution.

spindoctorofaethelred Tue 18-Feb-14 15:04:56

However, I do feel she should have been a lot more assertive. It would not have been possible for the other passengers to have ignored me if I was in her position! I would have been tapping them on the shoulder, talking loudly in their ears, and so on to get my point across. I would have been roping in likely looking passengers to help me ask the nearest people sitting down to move etc.

I don't think that's fair. I had a pretty rough pregnancy, beginning, middle and end (culminating in hospitalisation) and when I was ill, I was ill. I was sitting quietly, whether that was the floor or a seat, avoiding any kind of movement, including talking, because that made me feel even more ill. I remember being unable to speak, because I was trying to avoid vomiting in public!

HappyMummyofOne Yet again, you have grossly simplified reality. Sometimes, carrying on as normal is not possible.

Preciousbane Tue 18-Feb-14 15:08:37

I think it is perfectly alright to point out how ill mannered many people are and also how petty some rules can be and I'm someone that quite likes a rule.

Lagoonablue Tue 18-Feb-14 15:12:47

I recall being very pregnant and on a packed train in the boiling heat. No one gave me a seat. I didn't even have something to hold onto as it was so packed and every time the train lurched I thought I would keel over. So I asked a man to move along a bit so I could use the grab handle and he refused! I should have been more assertive but just felt like crying tbh.

ExBrightonBell Tue 18-Feb-14 15:13:26

Spindoctorofaethelred, I see what you mean, but from what she has said herself she was still able to speak to the other passengers.

I have had to do exactly what I described to get the attention of other passengers so that I could sit down when pregnant and not feeling great. I just find it hard to believe that had she grabbed and tugged at the sleeve of the nearest person and asked for help to find a seat, that they would have just shrugged her off and continued to ignore her. Maybe that is what happens though, I hope not.

ArtexMonkey Tue 18-Feb-14 15:14:00

silly me, I should have thrown away my crutches and just carried on as normal when i had spd so bad i ended up being induced hmm

threads like these always bring the nobheads out. totally agree with divisionbyzero.

ReadyToPopAndFresh Tue 18-Feb-14 15:14:14

What did you mean by the word "classless"? I don't think it makes sense in the context of your post.

It's classless to assume that as a human who isn't well you are entitled to consideration if you happen to have a uterus anyway

I get quite upset by people who tell people to be more assertive rather than tell others to be more considerate. You can be as assertive as you like but if you are unwell and someone doesn't want to move, you can't make them. And you might also feel quite vulnerable what with being ill AND pregnant.

eurochick Tue 18-Feb-14 15:17:08

ExBrighton that was my understanding too, hence my comment about the guard. I read a report of this incident yesterday in another paper and there was a comment about not being able to move around the packed train to find a guard, which would reflect my experience of commuter trains.

Gileswithachainsaw Tue 18-Feb-14 15:18:05

I don't think it matters what you think of a person if someone appears to need the seat more you give ilyiurs up if you are able.

My second pregnancy was shit, I was in alot of anaemic so regularly dizzy and so uncomfortable you wouldn't believe. If I hadn't has a seat on even the shortest bus journey you have no idea how much harder it would have been. Just xos I slapped on enough make up to not look dead doesn't mean I was well enough to stand for the duration.

Any pregnant or disabled or elderly person needs a seat more than a young able bodied person. I thought it was just manners tbh.

Gileswithachainsaw Tue 18-Feb-14 15:18:59

A lot of pain

LaGuardia Tue 18-Feb-14 15:20:13

I thought the same as the OP when I read the article. She travels 3 days a week yet want the same concessions as someone who pays for a monthly/weekly ticket. If she want to sit in first class, she can bloody well pay for it. I did when I was pregnant and it was lovely.

tethersend Tue 18-Feb-14 15:24:06

Fucking hell.

Would the very fabric of society crumble if a pregnant woman was allowed to sit in first class without a special pass?

What on earth do you think would happen?

Jesus.

fairylightsatchristmas Tue 18-Feb-14 15:32:08

LaGuardia really, have a biscuit. What on earth makes you assume that everyone can "bloody well just pay" for first class. Also, if she only travels 3 days a week, why would she pay for a 5 day season ticket 52 weeks a year? As someone said upthread, either they acknowledge the principle that pg women might require this pass or they don't - it actually doesn't matter if they travel 3 days or 5. I am SO SO sick of this idea that anyone who suggests that pregnancy might make people more in need of help / assistance is entitled, spoiled, selfish etc. For fucks sake - I had two very easy pregnancies but still was damn glad to be moved to a downstairs classroom and taken off lunchtime duties in the third trimester. I didn't ask, my lovely, considerate employer offered it and it made the last few weeks of work much more bearable. Why does it have to be that if someone gets something extra there is always such a brutal response?

spindoctorofaethelred Tue 18-Feb-14 15:32:56

ExBrightonBell She managed to speak up enough to get a place on the floor, yeah, but we don't know how much that took out of her. It's quite possible that she didn't have anything left after that.

You know, memories are flooding back of how ghastly pregnancy was, now. I think I'll postpone trying for a sibling for another couple of years! grin

tethersend Tue 18-Feb-14 15:45:12

The fact that pregnant women need a pass to sit in first class at all is ridiculous.

Birdinthebush Tue 18-Feb-14 15:48:28

I use the tube daily and will always other my seat to an elderly or pregnant person. Normally one of the other passengers will do the same. This article was in The Standard last night and she did not ask for a seat. Most commuters switch off by reading or checking their phones and are just not aware of people. We aren't being rude just oblivious

bakingaddict Tue 18-Feb-14 15:50:19

It's simply two separate incidents. She felt ill and nobody gave her a seat was the 1st, the second being that she applied for the pregnancy pass post incident but didn't meet the qualifying criteria. She is obviously a bit peeved to be missing out regarding the pregnancy pass but it's disingenuous to try and connect the two. Everything is subject to T&C's

In her situation I would have just taken my chances and sat in first class if there was empty seats. Provided I had a ticket that entitled me to travel albeit maybe not a 1st class one I cant imagine guards being so obnoxious that they would turf a visibly sick pregnant woman out of first class?

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 18-Feb-14 15:51:39

Well there is a woman in the next village to me she is 92 and carries on with life as if she is 20, obviously this means that all 92 year olds should do the same thing.

So if they want help or a priority seat fuck them those entitled fuckers.

Just like all those pesky pregnant women who should be walking to work instead of being so lazy as to get the train

It's funny how the posters who fall over themselves to accuse women of being entitled or lazy and other such nonsense rarely miss an opportunity on other threads to be sympathetic towards men when they are being entitled and lazy.

halfwildlingwoman Tue 18-Feb-14 16:06:02

Of course the article makes her sound entitled, it's the DM. They hate women.

NigellasDealer Tue 18-Feb-14 16:09:08

anyway she did not have to sit on the floor she could have asked somebody for their seat and i have no doubt that she would then have got a seat. perhaps she would rather have sat on the floor and then get paid to whinge to the DM!

spindoctorofaethelred Tue 18-Feb-14 16:12:54

Nigella one person has posted about asking someone for a seat while on crutches and being refused, in this thread. Another person has posted about standing, and asking a man to move so that she could have something to hold on to. She was also refused.

Not only are some people utter bastards (a universally acknowledged fact) but some of them are evidently unashamed of it.

ReadyToPopAndFresh Tue 18-Feb-14 16:13:21

It's funny how the posters who fall over themselves to accuse women of being entitled or lazy and other such nonsense rarely miss an opportunity on other threads to be sympathetic towards men when they are being entitled and lazy.

This. If a poster said "Aibu to not have given my seat to random bloke on the bus who said he wanted it"

There would be 800 posts about him having an invisible disability. She was visibly pregnant and unwell enough to sit on a dirty train floor.

NigellasDealer Tue 18-Feb-14 16:15:55

yes that is pretty disgusting spindoctor - however the only time i have ever actually asked for a seat, (preg and passing out, hanging onto a strap), about 6 people jumped up bless them they had just been switched off to their surroundings.

MummytoMog Tue 18-Feb-14 16:47:03

I did two pregnancies, commuting every day on the Underground, and nobody ever refused to give me their seat apart from one very apologetic woman with arthritis. She actually tried to get up before I told her not to worry about it (and then the nice man a bit further down the coach gave me his seat). I actually can't stand 'Baby on Board' badges, because I think they're passive aggressive bullshit and if you need a seat you should just ask, but a polite request is rarely refused on the tube. People even stand up to let me put my pushchair in the pushchair space on the district line. And clearly DS would be fine (if in the way) if they didn't.

The woman in the article did come off as entitled, but that's entirely possibly the way it is written. I think the issue of not being able to buy a three day travel card is much worse than the whole first class/standard class issue. I have a colleague who works three days in the office and one at home and she has to buy a full annual pass because it's marginally cheaper than three tickets a week. I really think train operators should have to introduce them.

Mim78 Tue 18-Feb-14 18:16:27

I think it is shocking that this woman had to stand. Ok she may not have asked anyone but tbh was assuming that she did. She was wearing a badge though so someone could have offered. I would always offer a seat to someone who needed it more whether pregnant elderly or with a broken leg etc. I think it is human decency. In have spent most of my working life not pregnant and traveling on trains and have been happy to do this. I find it hard to understand the attitude of "tough luck" that seems to prevail on mn. And ffs not all of the passengers around her could have also had some sort of medical condition. I think we should all think more about taking care of one another and less of the "why should I, I didn't make you pregnant?" mentality.

Not sure about the first class upgrade. I'd never heard about it, although don't have a season ticket. Surely it isn't necessary though? If you are pregnant and feel unwell on packed train I'd have though you could just sit in first class and explain if necessary. Can't believe anyone would fine you - I have risked it lots of times.

In fact I have bought first class tickets towards the end of pregnancy because started to feel v sick on trains and was fussy about where I sat. But I don't travel everyday and not always into London so I don't know how pricey this would be. Also sme people just can't afford it and that doesn't mean they need it less than I do...

I have been thinking that if we won't accept that pregnant women )among others) need to have a seat and if possible we should give it to them, do we really want to pay for maternity leave from day 1? Not an attractive proposition IMO!

Mim78 Tue 18-Feb-14 18:23:33

Can I add that people have always got up for me this pregnancy - every time I've asked - which is pretty good going. People in general seem much kinder than mn ers tbh.

However there have been the odd occasions when I've felt too ill to ask which is a shame because these are the days I've felt worse. Also sometimes when feeling particularly bad it hasn't come out quite in the tone of voice i intended! One time I unfortunately started crying when someone gave up their seat - this was probably embarrassing for them but I didn't do it on purpose - esp as they had already gone up! I was just so grateful But they probably did not want that response!

mewkins Tue 18-Feb-14 18:37:12

The way she has been quoted is pretty much out of her hands of course. I'm sure the DM never skews a story.

I hate the pregnancy is an illness thing that people spout because many women do struggle with tiredness, dizziness etc especially on overheated trains when pregnant. Any decent person realising that someone was unwell and slumping on the floor should have offered their seat regardless.

MidniteScribbler Tue 18-Feb-14 21:54:56

If I'm on a train I'm in my own little world generally, usually with my head in a book. Tap me on the shoulder and I'll jump up straight away to give someone my seat, but I don't analyse every passenger stepping on the train to determine their need for a seat being greater than mine. It's not entitled to want to sit down if you are struggling, but it is entitled to expect people to be paying attention to your every move (or bump) without bothering to ask.

Caitlin17 Tue 18-Feb-14 22:01:10

If it had been me I'd have gone into first class and paid the upgrade (actually if it had been me I'd have been in first class anyway).

She doesn't look as if she's badly off and is bound to have had a credit card on her. If I'd been that unwell I'd have put my comfort first even if I had to pay.

pickles184 Tue 18-Feb-14 22:19:15

I have to say that threads like this make you a little sad at peoples lack of common decency. This woman was pregnant and unwell, she had paid the exact same amount for her journey as everyone else and really isn't being entitled expecting a little human decency from her fellow travellers. Almost certainly there was a number of people who could have offered their seat to someone more in need of it than them.
The train companies are at fault in selling far more tickets than they have available seats. It is grossly unfair that by virtue of chance you will either pay through the nose for a cramped seat or for the pleasure of standing in the doorways and corridors. The state of our railways is disgusting .

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