to think if you live in surrey sussex kent, home counties i spose and you work in the city

(211 Posts)
LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 08:29:00

you shouldnt complain about the trains!
you want the best of both worlds.

NoIamAngelaHernandez Tue 18-Feb-14 08:30:26

That is a ridiculous comment. Why shouldn't people have the best of both worlds?

fairylightsatchristmas Tue 18-Feb-14 08:32:22

?? How bizarre. Why is someone not allowed to have the best of both worlds if they are paying ££££ train fares and ££££ mortgage?

DoctorDonnaNoble Tue 18-Feb-14 08:33:00

Those routes also cover more rural commuting. And certainly when my family moved to a 'home county' place and my dad commuted to London by train it was because that was the closest to London we could afford. In our particular area we have one of the shabbiest and underfunded lines in the country surprisingly! It's really, quite rubbish. We've had service disruption most weekends for about 5 years to sort this out, and there are still regular delays. So yes, I suppose I think YABU because it's a bit more complicated than a bunch of rich people moaning.

Chippednailvarnish Tue 18-Feb-14 08:34:05

People paying high fares and then not getting what they have paid for. The bastards.

FuckyNell Tue 18-Feb-14 08:34:36

Whose moaning about trains?

DoctorDonnaNoble Tue 18-Feb-14 08:36:28

Everyone - as it happens I believe my local servie Anglian is one of the worst - several areas now have less than 50% satisfaction rates - it's not just commuters moaning.

Beccadugs Tue 18-Feb-14 08:38:47

We live on Surrey ( the less nice part) because for the price of our house we couldn't buy a bedsit anywhere in London that wouldn't require DH taking a train.
Even with the cost of commuting it is significantly cheaper to live here.
His train fares are huge, he never gets a seat, and at least once every couple of weeks I have to go and collect him from an alternative line. Why shouldn't he complain?!

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 08:40:13

well you got to pay for something, either pay for the service or pay to live nearer to the service.

putting up prices in the countryside, bunch of nimbies, not even using the local services. commuters! aargh

Bowlersarm Tue 18-Feb-14 08:41:55

Get out of bed the wrong side this morning op?

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 08:42:23

obviously struck a cord

SnowBells Tue 18-Feb-14 08:43:31

YABU. Do you know how much train fares cost? Only in England do they charge you a humongous amount for the commute, without giving much back. Like your ticket isn't actually worth a seat…

Why do you want to provide an excuse for train companies who rip off consumers??? They hold them hostage, and that should not be allowed.

uc Tue 18-Feb-14 08:44:52

How shocking - people complain because a service doesn't provide what it promises - trains that run regularly and on time. It's got nothing to do with demographics.

DoctorDonnaNoble Tue 18-Feb-14 08:45:17

All the commuters I know do use the local services! They are also paying over the odds for the train service. We ALL are - compare to the service provision over the rest of Europe!
The train services in the Home Counties are not just for commuters into London. They cover more local commutes as well. Oh, and for the rest of us to go into London to see a show. I went up to Scotland for the rugby the other weekend I feel the right to complain about arriving 3 1/2 hours late even though I don't live there. It was the first train out of London for about 3 hours - I think the commuters have the right to complain as well.

teaandthorazine Tue 18-Feb-14 08:45:32

Where do you live and work then, OP? So we can all follow your example, you know...

What a bizarre post.

AfricanExport Tue 18-Feb-14 08:47:11


Actually to the point of the ridiculous.

I believe we pay one of the most expensive fares in Europe for a service which is, in some areas, dire. I pay to get the trains to work everyday and I expect that service to work, just like my boss expects me to arrive on time. If they are unable to provide the service they advertise/ offer / committed to on signing a government contract to run the line then they should not have a monopoly on it, unfortunately I do not have a choice of what train company I use. They have a duty and obligation to their client and to be fair,to the country as a whole to run an efficient service as promised.

We should not sit back and take it. Personally I think all Londoners should hold a sit in (I.e go plonk ourselves on Leadenhall or Bishopsgate at lunchtimes etc and stop traffic). Because as it is nothing will change as the shareholders get their cash.. and that's ALL that matters angry

ps. My train line is terrible sad probably late about 60% of the time. So sorry if I sound slightly annoyed. grin

FuckyNell Tue 18-Feb-14 08:48:35

grin bunch of nimbies!

FuckyNell Tue 18-Feb-14 08:49:05

What's a nimby? grin

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 08:50:11

Not in My Back Yard.

vestandknickers Tue 18-Feb-14 08:50:34

Wow OP - had a bad morning have you?

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 08:51:03

those folks who buy the executive houses in the home counties, ideal for the commute, then complain when more houses are built and spoil their view. for example.

Slebmum Tue 18-Feb-14 08:51:40

Really? What an odd thing to say. I pay a fortune for my train tickets, can't buy a season as work part time. Why can't I complain about the trains?

Oh, and I work in the West End, not the City. Does that mean I am allowed to complain?

SnowBells Tue 18-Feb-14 08:53:42

I think City employers should let all employees work from home for a month - and let the train companies deal with the loss of income.

DoctorDonnaNoble Tue 18-Feb-14 08:53:46

That's a really small percentage of the people living in the Home Counties you know.

tomverlaine Tue 18-Feb-14 08:54:06

I don't even understand the supposed logic of this- how is being a nimby connected to complaining about a commute?? that would only make sense if I was complaining about a trainline being too close and disturbing me.

YABU and nonsensical

AfricanExport Tue 18-Feb-14 08:55:08

Yay! Snowbells.

Let's do that smile

NewBlueCoat Tue 18-Feb-14 08:56:51

We live on a commuter route. A supposedly very good one, just 30 mins into London.

Dh pays a fortune (to the point of needing a loan each year) for his rail ticket. And usually doesn't get a seat - the trains are far too small for the numbers of people wanting To use them. And the car parks are too small at the stations (and also extortionate).

So, dh pays a huge amount for a shitty service (to the point of non existent, tbh). An we pay quite a whack on re mortgage for the privilege of living near such a good commute hmm hmm

It really is the best of both worlds - shafted all round.

Bowlersarm Tue 18-Feb-14 08:57:31

Op - just explain again what you think a nimby has to do with complaints about the cost of commuting?

Your posts make little/no sense.

WowserBowser Tue 18-Feb-14 09:00:10

Are you just trying to wind people up? I live in the North and walk to work so this doesn't involve me at all - but i would hope every had a nice, easy journey to work.

natwebb79 Tue 18-Feb-14 09:00:53

Blimey, time to brush that bag of spuds off your shoulder OP grin

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 09:01:08

honestly i am not trying to wind people up, but i can see that i have - pehraps i shouldnt have been so opinionated. but it is my opinion.

MajorGrinch Tue 18-Feb-14 09:01:17

Have a look at how disproportionate the rail fare rises are in relation to everything else. I'd be pissed off if I was paying between 4 & 6k to ^stand ^on a sodding train.

On the other hand though OP, without all these commuters living there & spending money in these places, they'd just be fruit & veg picking communities & all jobs would be based around that - like all the towns in these places that aren't on the main transport links.

How have these poor folk trying to earn a decent living offended you today anyway OP?

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 09:01:40

these spuds are heavy though indeed and i am fed up with wearing wellies.

SuburbanRhonda Tue 18-Feb-14 09:02:30

OP, get this thread deleted.

It is wasting people's time who are trying to find the sense in it where there is none.

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 09:02:31

the folks on the news always complaining about the trains thats what did it!
we have had extraordinary weather and they complain about the trains. !

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 09:02:57

why on earth should this thread be deleted.
it doesnt even mention sex!

hiccupgirl Tue 18-Feb-14 09:04:35

Not everyone who works in the city of London earns loads you know. I spent 8 yrs doing admin jobs there and only in the last one did I earn more than my DH who was a teacher at the time. There was no way we could have afforded to live closer in to London plus his job was in the local community where we worked.

And yes, why can't you complain when the trains cost a fortune, there's never a seat and they're unreliable?

Presumably as well the 'incomers' must use some local services and probably have families that will go to the local schools etc.

TobyLerone Tue 18-Feb-14 09:06:29

How ridiculous. YAobviouslyBU.

OP, sometimes when everyone disagrees with you, it's not because you've 'struck a cHord' (I think you meant that most irritating of MN standbys 'hit a nerve'), nor is it because you're 'so opinionated'.
It's because you are wrong.

DoctorDonnaNoble Tue 18-Feb-14 09:06:41

Well actually, it's been both. And the weather's calmed down today. Dawlish (a commuter station for Exeter, you could say!) was an excellent example of this.
The customer satisfaction data has just come out. Therefore it is news.

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 09:07:32

come on, i am not entirely wrong.

Joysmum Tue 18-Feb-14 09:07:56

I think it's perfectly acceptable to complain if you pay for a service that is lacking.

ilovesooty Tue 18-Feb-14 09:08:48

What a peculiar thread. I can't understand what the OP is on about other than some strange rampant jealousy of those she perceives to be privileged in some way.

OP your opinion in this instance is, I'm afraid, complete bollocks. You are either on a wind up, work for one of these shitty train companies or are incredibly dimwitted, I can't quite fathom which it is.

Please explain why you think people should not complain when they pay thousands of pounds a year for services that are frequentlyu delayed and cancelled, amking them late for work/appointments etc? It is also not often true that it is cheaper living in the home counties, there is most definitely a 'commuter belt' mark up on the homes in these areas, so in reality commuters get hit double whammy.

We ahve the highest train fares in Europe, plenty of season tickets now exceed the �4K per year price, for that amount of money, the service should be absolutely sterling.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Tue 18-Feb-14 09:10:11


If people have paid huge money for a season ticket then of course they expect the trains to be running!

HarpyFishwifeTwat Tue 18-Feb-14 09:11:22

Oh OP. You're mistaking being opinionated for being a time-wasting, argumentative knob.

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 09:12:15

eek, it is my opinion

grumpyoldbat Tue 18-Feb-14 09:14:05

YABVU. Commuters pay an absolute fortune. They have a right to expect a decent service in return. They should get what they pay for.

Houses are really expensive in Surrey too. I wouldn't consider it cheap housing.

Also I'm sure commuters do use local services. If you were speaking about owners of holiday homes not using local services then you'd probably have a point but you're not.

AfricanExport Tue 18-Feb-14 09:16:14


I live in South London where many homes have been evacuated due to the flooding. They live in the Valley, I live on the Hill. I think people would think me terribly unreasonable to say 'AIBU to think people who live in valleys and known flood plains should expect to be flooded and therefore shouldn't complain'

That wouldn't go down well.. Would it?

And no, I am not saying that. It's an example.

It may be your opinion, but you have not explained or put forth a well reasoned argument as to why this is your opinion or why you feel it is a valid one.

Is this only confined to those that live outside London and commute into the city or does it stretch to the rest of the country?

Train fares are expensive the service is shit, in fact most public transport is expensive and shit, are we not allowed to complain?

tomverlaine Tue 18-Feb-14 09:19:21

You're not winding people up so much as confusing them as you have given no rationale for your view..
The reason certain commuter areas are so expenseive is because they suposedly quick/easy commutes. The property price reflects this.
So if you have paid a lot to get good transport (ignoring cost of actual travel) then you are right to complain if the transport is crap.
If you choose to live in a cheaper area in the south east - this is generally because it doesn't have good transport links/no trains/slow trains etc- in that case then you are less justified in complaining.

Where trains are delayed becasue of extrem weather commuters are sympathetic- the problem is that it happens all the time and also there is no communication at what is going on

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 09:19:33

but you Chose to live somewhere with a crap service.
you must have known it was a crap service.
it snows,
it floods
it ices up,
there are leaves.

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 09:20:16

ok, perhaps I should ahve left surrey out, as that is obvious commuter land.

grumpyoldbat Tue 18-Feb-14 09:20:33

Oh btw I live in Scotland so I'm not one of your hated commuters.

I'd also like to point out that their not complaining specifically about problems caused by the recent storms. They're complaining about consistently bad service with regular overcrowding and delays and cancellations occurring without there being extenuating circumstances such as a storm. I predict people would be significantly more understanding of delays during freak weather if the trains ran efficiently the rest of the time.

Also you do realise there are people working in London on NMW and many more earning between that and the national average. They're not all high earners.

OP when you pay for something do you not expect what you receive to be fit for purpose?

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 09:21:26

i used to live in a village with a train service,
tis a crap train service. i used it. i commuted for 3 months. in the winter.
the village has been built up - as has everywhere - with houses upon houses.

katese11 Tue 18-Feb-14 09:23:52

But even if you live in zone 1 in London it can still take ages to get to work because of transport problems. Most Londoners enjoy a good transport moan...Why shouldn't people in the home counties?

TobyLerone Tue 18-Feb-14 09:24:02

Snow, floods, ice and leaves on the line also affect trains in London, you know?

LIZS Tue 18-Feb-14 09:24:04

Excuse me ! Anyone has the right to assume that the services will function as published bar any act of God. I commuted during the IRA campaign and one year was frequently shut out of Victoria for hours on end. dh pays well over 3k for his season ticket and deliberately leaves very early to ensure he gets a seat for the 40 min journey. So many companies couldn't function if they relied soley on London residents.

Chippednailvarnish Tue 18-Feb-14 09:26:43

it snows,it floods, it ices up, there are leaves

Those listed above are a little known group of phenomenons called "we live in Northern Europe phenomenon".

Interestingly every other country also suffering in Northern Europe still have decent rail services. And cheaper ticket prices too.

But don't let that stop you from rambling incoherently on OP.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Tue 18-Feb-14 09:29:05

OP you still aren't explaining yourself very well.

What is it that you think people should be doing? Paying £5k a year for standing in a crowded corridor twice a day and not saying a word even when said corridor doesn't turn up and you are late for work/miss meetings etc?

That is the reality for very many commuters.

Your experience of a village train for 3 months doesn't really seem relevant, or if it is you haven't explained why.

Perhaps you could try writing in proper sentences that form that thing called a paragraph? People might be more accepting of your 'opinion' then?

DoctorDonnaNoble Tue 18-Feb-14 09:29:46

Yes, more houses have been built. There are more households. For several reasons. I used to live with my parents, as did DH. Now we have a house. So three houses where there used to be two. YOU are complaining about house building now - so that would make you a NIMBY.

OP, no people did not 'choose to live somewhere with crap service'. People choose to live soemwhere within reasonable commutable distance to their place of work, train companies advertise they run X number of trains into London (for example) per hour, with a jounrye time of X minutes, then it is expected that the majority of journeys should reflect this. The problem is, customers are findign that it is simply not true, there are delays not just due to weather, but constant 'over running engineering works', 'train faults' and so on.

I am unfortunate enough to have to use one of the Greater Anglia lines and believe me it is absolutely dire. Over �2000 per year for a service that has delays and cancellations on the line on a daily basis, and they have also been shown up as having fudged their figures regarding train punctuality. How one earth can that be value for money?

WallyBantersJunkBox Tue 18-Feb-14 09:32:24

I'm a bit confused as to the connection between not complaining about badly run train services and having your view spoilt outside your window? confused

Joysmum Tue 18-Feb-14 09:33:07

I don't think your reasoning stands up OP.

Are you saying that it should be acceptable to have shit service and high prices compared to every other European country?

What you are forgetting is that rail is essential to this country's economy to spread the wealth away from London and benefit as big a region as possible.

Are you suggesting it is wrong to want more of the country to benefit from the central bubble if the London economy?

Are you also suggesting that a monopoly situation is allowed to continue to be operating underpar and unchallenged?

Have your opinions by all means but they are misguided, naive and lacking in credibility.

NewBlueCoat Tue 18-Feb-14 09:34:34

I don't choose to live where i do. i have to, because of where my daughter's (SN) school is. and where her statement was issued. and dh needs to get into London.


we have to live in Surrey (having spent 4 years and the best part of £250k getting her statement right, we are not going to stuff it up by moving and forcing reassessment)

we have to be near a commuter station, and near (enough) to dd's school.

it doens't leave us with much choice. we could live further out on the line, and still receive the same crappy service (although only a couple of stops difference, as otherwise it's into a different county). we could live a little further in, and pay more for a house, and far more in fuel bills as my commute getting dd to/from school would go up.

are we entitled to moan about the trains?

eurochick Tue 18-Feb-14 09:37:04

I recognise the words the OP is posting but can't make any sense out of them...

thecatfromjapan Tue 18-Feb-14 09:38:55

Hmm. We all know we're going to get sick, get old and die - doesn't stop us complaining about that, does it?

I think your standards are unrealistically high with regard to realism, cheerfulness and not moaning.

In fact, I think you do not know what you wish for.

Next time you complain about a cold, or a d and v bug, or your joints getting a bit stiff, or elderly knees and drying out skin, I think a really good friend needs to stand at your elbow and - in a very jolly voice - tell you that it happens to us all, and it's all part of life's rich tapestry, and you must know what you were getting into, and if you don't like it, there's the knife drawer, and we should just learn to embrace all the bits and bobs falling down (or off) because you have to take the rough with the smooth ... and a million other platitudes ...

I reckon you manage ten minutes before standing on their foot to shut them up.

Moaning (in moderation) is what we do in this country. I think it may even be the equivalent of "the evil eye" charms that other cultures have.

Isabeller Tue 18-Feb-14 09:39:26

what eurochick said but am oddly fascinated confused


LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 09:42:01

the incomers is who I am complaining aobut

Kerosene Tue 18-Feb-14 09:42:33

What is your actual complaint? I've read the whole thread, and I'm not sure I can work it out. Wah, people live near you but work somewhere else and they're not happy with the service they're paying for - is that it?

Move then!

SaucyJack Tue 18-Feb-14 09:42:39

Yeah, you're right.

All those tight bastards living down here in Brighton for the bargain house prices..........

scantilymad Tue 18-Feb-14 09:42:48

A £6k a year season ticket and no guarantee of a seat on the train gives ample cause for complaint ime!

And the nicest parts of Sussex/Surrey aren't much cheaper than some parts of London anyway.

To be pedantic - why on earth would someone who lived in the City and worked there too need a train and so have any cause for complaint anyway? Walk!! Or do you mean "City" as in the whole of London?

TSSDNCOP Tue 18-Feb-14 09:43:21

Ah so this is what a truly stupid, pointless thread looks like.

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 09:44:01

but who pushed the prices up in brighton?

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 09:44:43

Ah so this is what a truly stupid, pointless thread looks like.

DoctorDonnaNoble Tue 18-Feb-14 09:45:16

I'd imagine it was old people retiring to the seaside to start with. But OP, where do you want these people to live, they have to live somewhere.

Bowlersarm Tue 18-Feb-14 09:45:37

OP next time you care to start a thread about a
thought that pops into your head, can you think about constructing your argument first before posting it in Aibu?

Very odd. Words written down in a jumbled fashion, making little sense.

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 09:46:04

<<scared to comment>>

Chippednailvarnish Tue 18-Feb-14 09:47:05

'Cause your talk crap OP.

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 09:47:31

no one understands me

ilovesooty Tue 18-Feb-14 09:47:44

I still think the OP is jealous of people she thinks are well off. I can't make any other sense of it.

Chippednailvarnish Tue 18-Feb-14 09:47:55


LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 09:48:32

why would i be jealous of commuters

WeAreDetective Tue 18-Feb-14 09:48:35

I am trying to work out if this is a 'everyone should have something crappy in their lives and commuters have a naice home and job so trains are their crappy thing, so live with it.'

Or 'it's always been Crappy so live with it, we all do. How dare you presume to expect better.'

Or 'you don't belong here, bugger off!'


tomverlaine Tue 18-Feb-14 09:48:36

Maybe if you try really hard and think, you might work out why no-one understand you. But i'm not holding my breath.

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 09:49:49

qite right We are detective

it has always been crappy so go away and commute from somehwere else.

Chippednailvarnish Tue 18-Feb-14 09:50:00

There's a village somewhere in possession of both an internet connection and it's idiot.

Bowlersarm Tue 18-Feb-14 09:50:03

You blaming incomers? To the south east?

Blimey. The south east is made up of incomers. By about 90% I should imagine.

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 09:50:47

that was so funy chipped

DoctorDonnaNoble Tue 18-Feb-14 09:51:10

But WHERE do you want them to live?

thecatfromjapan Tue 18-Feb-14 09:51:13

I see your point, OP. It's like moving to the country and complaining about all the mud. Though I will admit that I'd do that. The country would be way better if it was cleared up a bit, and I agree with India Knight that there is not much that can't be improved with a few more shops.

South East workers who weigh up their options and choose a lifestyle involving travel, and then complain about said travel is a bit daft - in theory.

Thing is, OP, you have hit the enormous well of resentment that lies just beneath ground level placidity in the modern South East Worker. Many of us cannot afford to live anywhere near where the work is. Many people feel coerced into living in places with bloody long commutes, just in order to keep a wage coming into the house.

It's interesting . I once had a friend who wrote a SF book premissed on the idea of a commuters' revolution. She gained her inspiration from a moment in Victoria station when she realised how angry people were.

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 09:51:16

no no i dont live in the commuter village anymore, it is far too expensive.

Joysmum Tue 18-Feb-14 09:51:27

Why do you think nobody understands you?

Is it because you think you know something the rest of us don't? Or is it because you are being illogical and just focused on YOU rather than the bigger picture.

It's a rarity that if you have 100 people, 99 in agreement and 1 who isn't, that the 1 who isn't is right. If there was more in agreement with you then you might have a point wink

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 09:51:59

phew, thank you thecat. you understand me<<purr>>

WeAreDetective Tue 18-Feb-14 09:52:22

OMG! Seriously??!!

Have you thought that complaining about it might help make it better from everyone??

Just an idea

SilverOldie Tue 18-Feb-14 09:53:03


"Ah so this is what a truly stupid, pointless thread looks like."


"There's a village somewhere in possession of both an internet connection and it's idiot."
^ ^
^ ^

Amarena Tue 18-Feb-14 09:54:55

Ignore ignore ignore. The OP is obviously spoiling for a fight, some may calling it trolling actually.

DoctorDonnaNoble Tue 18-Feb-14 09:55:54

But it's not like moving to the country and complaining about the mud. There is a huge variety in the quality of service in these areas as well. I used to live in Reading. Service was pretty darn good actually (except you'd never get a seat by the time the train got to Reading). I now live in NE Essex. The service is poo. The line has been underfunded for years. Despite the moaning pouring in from the commuters and the constant weekend disruption in advance of the Olympics. It is shocking. The commuters have every right to complain. They are paying for a service they are not getting. Where they live matters not a jot to that. Mainland Europe manages a more efficient public transport system - why cant we?

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 09:56:24

i dont think i'm spoiling for a fight confused but it seems i am being shouted down.

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 09:56:38

<<see misunerstood>>

It's hard to shout down someone who has put a coherent thought on the screen yet.

JohnFarleysRuskin Tue 18-Feb-14 09:58:28

Doctor, I think Essex commuters are allowed to complain because its not quite as nice as Surrey.


RedFocus Tue 18-Feb-14 09:59:05

Alright leave Surrey out of this! wink
I was born and raised in sometimes sunny Surrey.
Op as you say we are all allowed an opinion (even if it is the ramblings of a mad person confused )

MothratheMighty Tue 18-Feb-14 09:59:22

If I pay for a service, I expect it to be provided.
Why is that difficult to understand?
You may as well say that people who choose to live in isolated places don't deserve an NHS, or a decent school system.

Preciousbane Tue 18-Feb-14 10:00:20

Well I'm an outcomer of the SE as is DH. Personally I don't agree with op but the SE is now so over crowded and expensive it is very hard for a lot of people living there.

Bowlersarm Tue 18-Feb-14 10:00:51

Soooo you've been priced out of living in a commuter town, and feeling a bit cross. Especially when those rich-and smug, oh yes - the very same who have priced you out of your desired area have the nerve to complain if their trains don't run on time! What a nerve!

Got there in the end.

Yabu. They pay a lot of money for a service they have the right to expect. They are entitled to complain if they don't get that service.

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 10:02:46

it has changed in that village with all the commuters and incomers -

Amarena Tue 18-Feb-14 10:02:51

Exactly Golden, the OP has yet to put a coherent thought or argument down. It's just a load of disjointed sentences designed to rile people and cause pages and pages of nonsense.

thecatfromjapan Tue 18-Feb-14 10:03:04

I have a theory that there is nowhere in mainland Europe that has so many people commuting into its capital city for work, and with such a crazy disparity of where work/population in concentrated and house prices that lead to the overburdening of trains into the capital.

Across a lot of Europe people still live relatively close to where they work - and they can afford to!!!

The high prices on rail/transport services are a. a form of rationing b. a way of paying for wear and tear/upgrades necessary because they are being pushed beyond the limit of what they were designed for - and there is not enough slack in the system to close existing systems and build/upgrade where it's necessary.

And the road system into the capital is a disaster too - hence the congestion charge, and trying to "encourage" people onto public transport.

It is very crazy.

In all seriousness, work should be shared more evenly throughout the country.

Instead, I think the high speed train links that are being planned are only going to serve to turn locations that are stupid distances from London into supposed commuter areas.

grumpyoldbat Tue 18-Feb-14 10:03:11

Actually the trains haven't always been this bad. Pre Beeching the train service was better and covered more towns and villages. Maintenance had been scaled back significantly over the last 50 years and we're now seeing the consequences.

If we follow the "it's always been that way" argument to it's conclusion we have even less right to complain about wars, murder, rape etc as they've been around since x BC i.e. 1000s of years before there was such a thing as train. Even before there was a London for that matter.

DoctorDonnaNoble Tue 18-Feb-14 10:03:35

Ruskin - I trained to teach in Surrey (yuck!), my part of Essex is much nicer. Although, the part of Surrey I trained in is probably officially in London now - as is much of Essex - how does that affect the OPs opinion I wonder?
Anyway, DH commutes to next town by train sometimes as he got promoted. If we moved to next town, I'd have to commute here and we'd be worse off as the houses are significantly more expensive even twenty miles closer to London.
OP - where do you want all these people who work in, and around, London to live?

JohnFarleysRuskin Tue 18-Feb-14 10:03:43

You get up really early in the morning, before the kids are up, you pay thousands of pounds to sit on a cramped train with some bastard sitting next to you eating a hamburger, and you go to a really shitty job but pay thousands of pounds in taxes, and you get home really, really late, because the train company decided a slow train is better, and the kids are already in bed, and you expect to complain, you bastards. How dare you?!

thecatfromjapan Tue 18-Feb-14 10:04:20

I wish I'd tried harder with French at school. I think it would have been nice to get part-time work and commute from Paris. sad

Bowlersarm Tue 18-Feb-14 10:04:34

Stop using 'incomers'! You sound like a Victorian milk maiden.

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 10:05:37

if i was complaining about holiday homes i wouldn't get so much angst here i understand.
bloody bastards going on holiday

but complaining about people moving here to commute to london and i get called a troll among other things

DoctorDonnaNoble Tue 18-Feb-14 10:07:11

Cat - all capital cities require a large number of commuters. My Grandfather commuted into Cophenhagen by train (30 miles) back in the 1970s. Denmark still has a more efficient train system. He also used to commute from Winterthur to Zurich.
Would the economies of the regions be better if the work was spread out? Possibly, but not necessarily. The government forced the BBC to move some of its programming to Salford for that reason. We now have people commuting from the SE to Salford rather than London.

KissesBreakingWave Tue 18-Feb-14 10:08:26

The rail service is shite because British Rail was cut, privatised, de-subsidised, re-subsidised, split, folded, spindled and mutilated for ideological reasons. Since that ideology only got into power because of the voting/financial power of London and the Home Counties, they are getting to lie in the bed they made. No sympathy.

scantilymad Tue 18-Feb-14 10:08:36

I am intrigued as to what job the OP was commuting to for three months...

DoctorDonnaNoble Tue 18-Feb-14 10:08:56

Lucy - second home owning is different. It does more in some rural areas, eg Devon, to price locals out of the market.
Also, may I just ask again, you don't want these people in your village, where should they go?

AvonCallingBarksdale Tue 18-Feb-14 10:09:19

We live in the home counties, but DH works in London, not the City. Big difference.

DoctorDonnaNoble Tue 18-Feb-14 10:09:47

Kisses - not all of us in the South East vote that way. I promise!

TSSDNCOP Tue 18-Feb-14 10:09:49

That's right OP, keep swinging and eventually you'll hit a subject of complaint that someone will agree with you on.

JohnFarleysRuskin Tue 18-Feb-14 10:13:52

And then what they do in some of these towns, near the station, is put up those petty little notices - no parking here between 10 and 11, because God forbid, a filthy commuter should be allowed to park near the station.

Still commuters must never complain because they have the life of riley.

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 10:14:37

gosh some of you are right bullies arent you

NancyJones Tue 18-Feb-14 10:14:38

It's not at all like moving to the country and complaining about the mud...'s like moving to the country and complaining that you are required to pay £40 for your tesco delivery when everyone else only has to pay a fiver and then having the audacity to also complain that when it turns up that it hasn't got half of what you've paid for, despite still charging you for it all. And that's if it bothers turning up at all. How unreasonable! hmm

TSSDNCOP Tue 18-Feb-14 10:18:01

Kisses I'm old enough to have commuted before privatisation. I believe it is six and two threes which offered the worst service, I speak for the Kent lines into London. No experience of others.

The trains themselves are better. The old trains almost seemed to be made entirely of cardboard. The number of trains has improved. But that causes issues as the increased number of trains still have to filter into the same number of London terminals. The infrastructure itself I think is where the real issue lies and that requires investment that the train companies don't prioritise.

I look at the Dutch and Swiss train services with envy when I use them.

scantilymad Tue 18-Feb-14 10:19:23

MN "Pretty much, yes"
OP "Oh you bullies"

Where's the "rolly eyes" face when you need it....

FreddieStarrAteMyHamster Tue 18-Feb-14 10:21:03

bloody hell- every time I need to remember why I left my rural home town for the anonymity of the big smoke someone like the Op comes and reminds me.

DoctorDonnaNoble Tue 18-Feb-14 10:22:12

Here at Greater Anglia they've introduced 'new' trains. They're just the ones all the other companies didn't want any more - we're one of the few lines who still have slam doors I believe. The difference here pre and post privatisation is noticeable and not in a good way.

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 10:24:31

makes you roll your eyes does it, wow, someone gives an opinion you lot dont agree with - you dive in - then roll your eyes. nest of vipers.

OvertiredandConfused Tue 18-Feb-14 10:24:42

I live in Berkshire and commute daily (1.5-2 hours each way) into London. I work for a charity. I can't afford to live in London and I want my DC to grow up in a house not a flat. I can't work in my field closer to home. I pay more than £4000 a year to have a truly crap service. so yes, I do complain.

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 10:25:07

not a bun fight
not a bun fight.

When you move to the country you don't pay for mud, its free. Its not the same as paying for an expensive service that fails to deliver.

DoctorDonnaNoble Tue 18-Feb-14 10:27:22

I've tried to engage you in debate over this but you haven't replied to my question. Yes, it may annoy you that the village has changed but where would you like all these people to live? Or would it be ok if they stayed in the village and didn't moan about the trains?
The ONLY reason this was in the broadcast news was that the annual passenger survey was out. They discuss it every year.

Chippednailvarnish Tue 18-Feb-14 10:28:39

Rather be a coherent viper, than a babbling mess.

Be thankful for the incomers, I think there is a need for a new DNA pool.

scantilymad Tue 18-Feb-14 10:29:28

Its not the difference of opinion that causes the eye rolling - opinion is what is courted on AIBU.
It's being called bullies when you give an opinion the OP doesn't agree with that causes the eye rolling.....not a hard concept to grasp.

ComposHat Tue 18-Feb-14 10:30:42

lucy This is quite common. Rolling stock gets cascaded from London. When the Liverpool to Manchester line is electrified there will be new trains.
Except they'll be 30 year old cast offs already three quarters of their way through their lifespan.

Chippednailvarnish Tue 18-Feb-14 10:32:08

I've got it! OP is from Royston Vasey.

Dave is that you?

oldwomaninashoe Tue 18-Feb-14 10:34:41

Some of us don't have any other option other than to commute. I was made redundant aged 50 and could not get another job locally (all cherry picked by much younger people) but there were jobs in Central London so it was a no-brainer.
But here I am arthritic and early 60's having an 1.5 commute daily.
I get on the train each morning at 6 am, so I can get a seat, but to go home I have to stand- it ain't fun believe me!

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 10:34:42

Stop using 'incomers'! You sound like a Victorian milk maiden.
Rather be a coherent viper, than a babbling mess.


LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 10:36:35

where would I like these people to live?
or essex.
or may be i just wont listen to them complain about the trains next time they are on the news.

Bowlersarm Tue 18-Feb-14 10:36:47


LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 10:36:55

actually i want them to live in london;

DoctorDonnaNoble Tue 18-Feb-14 10:38:45

But then where would the people who live in London live? There isn't a ready supply of housing at a reasonable price in London. That's why people don't live there. Commuting isn't fun.

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 10:40:21

times up when you are 90, how aobut that.

teaandthorazine Tue 18-Feb-14 10:45:45

It's quite early to be this drunk, isn't it?

OP, are you ok? <patented MN passive-aggressive head tilt>

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 10:47:41

no, i am always like this.

LIZS Tue 18-Feb-14 10:47:52

Great , all commuters move to London as there is known to be plenty of housing stock, school places, lack of congestion hmm . Provincial railways no longer used therefore decline and are made obsolete.

glastocat Tue 18-Feb-14 10:48:16

The op makes no sense at all, I have no idea what she is on about at all. Suspect she is drunk or on the wind up.

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 10:49:47

ok, obviously not time up at 90, but it seems everybody wants their patch of green but it doesnt always work like that,

TSSDNCOP Tue 18-Feb-14 10:50:18

You want the million odd people that commute to London, to leave their home and go and live in London. So London would need to grow by an eighth to accommodate the incomers. How would that even work?

Honest question. Where do you think all these City types spend the money they make in the big London? You do realise they don't keep it in a locker at Waterloo don't you?

bigbluebus Tue 18-Feb-14 10:50:59

I live a long way from London, so I'm not even going to comment on the issues of commuting. But poor train services are not exclusive to the South. Only the other day I dropped DH at a rural station. The info board said 'Train delayed' so I waited, rather than drive home and leave him stranded. After 15 minutes the board changed to 'train cancelled'. There is only one train every 2 hrs. He had to go home and miss what he was supposed to be attending. He checked the internet when he got home to find out why the train was cancelled. It said 'staff shortage'. Ok so he hadn't already paid for his ticket - but the service is unreliable - everywhere.
As for the changes in villages - I live in a village and was an 'incomer' 20 yrs ago (from another village). The village has definitely changed over that time. Lots of new houses being built. House prices have gone up here too, so many locals cannot afford them as there is little employment around here and what there is, isn't highly paid. The rise in prices has nothing to do with 'incomers', and definitely not commuters here - it is just the economy nationwide.

DoctorDonnaNoble Tue 18-Feb-14 10:51:14

You're talking about small percentages again. Most people want a roof over their head, a job and to be safe.

MothratheMighty Tue 18-Feb-14 10:51:31

'Great , all commuters move to London as there is known to be plenty of housing stock, school places, lack of congestion'

Well, there would be if we only had useful worker-unit lifeforms in the capital, and shipped all the non-productive failed units Up North somewhere.

LittleBearPad Tue 18-Feb-14 10:57:37

Where in London OP. It's not as if there's much space here. Do you honestly think commuters enjoy having to travel hours on shitty trains back to villages where for ten years after they move there they are referred to as incomers.

TSSDNCOP Tue 18-Feb-14 11:02:30

Actually when I think again, it'd need to be accommodating more like 4 million extra people because the commuter will need to bring her/his family too.

Plenty of space in Hyde Park for 300 storey tower blocks. No need to implement George Orwell Moths plan.

PatriciaHolm Tue 18-Feb-14 11:03:01

I think the OP lives in Royston Vasey…..

Finola1step Tue 18-Feb-14 11:11:58

Lucy I will not bore you with my commuting details. I am not a viper. I do not earn a shed load in the city.

Like most people, I work really hard to provide for my children. I have every right to complain and be dissatisfied with an unreliable service which costs me thousands to use.

You are entitled to your opinion. But I would take you more seriously if you composed your arguments with greater care. Your spelling and punctuation need improvement and this distracts the reader from your overall message. But then it is half term...

JassyRadlett Tue 18-Feb-14 11:13:02

Oh, but Lucy. You haven't thought this through very well, or actually explained it well at all apart from describing commuters as a 'bunch of nimbies' which makes no sense at all.

The problem with the trains isn't related to flooding. People are fine with things like that. The story you've seen is the Which? report on people's satisfaction with rail services - overcrowded, delayed, cancelled for often quite rubbish reasons focused on profits rather than customers. As they run local monopolies, there's little opportunity for people to go elsewhere.

People aren't complaining about the fact they have to commute. It is, as you say, part and parcel of commuting. I doubt anyone particularly enjoys it but the economic and housing profile of the South East in particular, but also around other urban centres, promotes this mode.

What people object to is the service they pay for falling far short of acceptable standards. I don't expect a seat on my train. I do expect it not to be cancelled 20% of the time (as it was during January - 'my' afternoon train is the first one South West Trains cancels if anything goes wrong. I object to not being able to get onto three trains in a row due to overcrowding. I object to it when, halfway through a journey, home, the guard suddenly announces that we will be travelling 'express' past my station.

I live where I live (London/Surrey borders - where do I fit in your book?) because I like it here. It's a nicer place to bring up my kid. I have friends and a community here, which I don't have near where I work. I commute into central London four days a week - note, not to a City job, what a boringly stereotyped idea of 'commuters'. I spend exponentially more money locally than I do in central London. I support my local independent bookshop and butcher's. I volunteer locally.

My husband commutes in the other direction - out into Hampshire. How does he fit into your ideas?

FreddieStarrAteMyHamster Tue 18-Feb-14 11:13:55

Op is

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 11:19:40

Your spelling and punctuation need improvement and this distracts the reader from your overall message. But then it is half term...

are you assuming I am a teacher or something?

FreddieStarrAteMyHamster Tue 18-Feb-14 11:19:58

Op I think you should campaign for your home town to draw up its own borders. Passport controlled and only issued to those with residents going back 5 generations or more and large unfathomable chips on shoulders. We could then contain the while group of you away from modern civilisation. I for one would be only too happy to chip in.

Finola1step Tue 18-Feb-14 11:23:19

Oh Lucy. Thank you. I'm ill in bed, checked mn and you have just made me laugh. You are a tonic, you really are. Keep posting please.

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 11:24:23

happy to oblige fiona, doubt it's me, or is this another oh so subtle bullying.

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 11:24:37

sorry finola not fiona

JassyRadlett Tue 18-Feb-14 11:24:51

Freddie, I think you've cracked something there.

OP, you may enjoy Passport to Pimlico as a good blueprint.

Finola1step Tue 18-Feb-14 11:33:43

Lucy you post a thread which is met with derision. You keep on going. I attempt to give you advice and an "out" along the lines of humour and you accuse me of bullying you. If you do think that I am bullying you, then please do report my posts to MNHQ. I would be keen to see what they say on the matter.

As someone who has been bullied, I find your accusation offensive and I will fight my corner.

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 11:35:11

so i am a tonic who you want to keep posting, really?

Bowlersarm Tue 18-Feb-14 11:37:46

are you assuming I'm a teacher

Arf grin. Priceless, OP.

Finola1step Tue 18-Feb-14 11:39:49

Lucy I am ill. You made me laugh. Maybe not intentionally but you did. So in that sense, I described you as a tonic. If you find this offensive, please do report to MNHQ.

JassyRadlett Tue 18-Feb-14 11:41:10

Lucy, is there a reason you are pouncing on posters and accusing them of bullying, rather than answering some of the questions people have asked about your position on this issue?

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 11:42:50

sorry finola, hope you feel better soon.

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 11:44:01

i didnt think i was on the wind up.
i guess i was a little outspoken.

Chippednailvarnish Tue 18-Feb-14 11:46:10

OP: talks shit

Vipers: Op you're talking shit

OP: talks more shit

Vipers: what are you talking about?

OP: you're bullying me

Vipers: eh?

Weegiemum Tue 18-Feb-14 11:47:27

I commute via train some of the time in Glasgow - it's cheap, reliable and as I work only school hours, usually I get a seat. I think I'd complain if I had to put up with what is common on trains in the South East.

OP certainly seems to be having a bad day, though!

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 11:53:07

you havent changed my mind, though

Burma Tue 18-Feb-14 12:02:46

Teacher???? Gawd help us if you are....

grin Chippednailvarnish

Finola1step Tue 18-Feb-14 12:06:07

With regards to my half term comment, I'm the teacher. I was wondering if Lucy's account had been hacked by a naughty schoolboy. Or girl. grin

Chippednailvarnish Tue 18-Feb-14 12:12:21

I think a schoolchild would find a much more interesting subject matter to "discuss".

LucyLasticBand Tue 18-Feb-14 12:14:09

is it really because
i am wrong
i am old

or i am outspoken
and no one dares agree with me

LIZS Tue 18-Feb-14 12:15:14

or everyone else thinks your option is very shortsighted and that you seem unwilling to listen or enter into any debate ?

DoctorDonnaNoble Tue 18-Feb-14 12:15:29

It's not that we don't dare agree with you. It's that we don't agree with you.

Bahhhhhumbug Tue 18-Feb-14 12:17:26

I used to feel similar hatred angst towards the feckers who insisted on buying the big fuck off houses overlooking fields and a golf course across the road from them (no houses) and next door to a large teaching hospital. Then they would complain and campaign bitterly for double yellow lines opposite so no-one would park and obliterate their view. Hospital staff who cant get in the hospital car park have always parked along this road and the hospital has been there for about a hundred years.
Grrrr - OP I feel your pain - they knew the score when they moved in just like your commuters.

ilovechips Tue 18-Feb-14 12:21:49

OP, what is wrong with complaining about poor service? Do you always accept poor service without complaint? Disclaimer - I am not a commuter but don't see the problem with anyone complaining about poor service! But then I only live in hampshire, which wasn't on your list! ;)

WeAreDetective Tue 18-Feb-14 12:23:03

I'm still not certain about what it is I would be agreeing with!

Finola1step Tue 18-Feb-14 12:25:58

Oh chipped I do hope you are right.

Lucy, you are entitled to your opinion. When you state your opinion on a public forum, others are entitled to agree or disagree. You have had a resounding YABU. That does not mean that you have to change your opinion. It simply means that you are in the minority. So, others are not afraid to agree with you. Other posters simply see the flaws in your argument.

MySweetPrince Tue 18-Feb-14 12:33:42

Isn't it half term this week? hmm

PatriciaHolm Tue 18-Feb-14 12:34:44

I think OP thinks "outspoken" means "i shout loudest because I know I am right and you are all afraid to call a spade a spade"

Maybe you are outspoken, though I don't think any of us are really sure about what.

FreddieStarrAteMyHamster Tue 18-Feb-14 12:41:35

I think... Op is saying she doesn't want "incomers" spoiling her home town, pushing up prices, etc. And 'they' should ideally all move back/be contained in London. If people must move out of the overcrowded London slums that Op is proposing, then they should not complain about the commute. Or summat...

MothratheMighty Tue 18-Feb-14 12:44:56

's it really because
i am wrong
i am old

or i am outspoken
and no one dares agree with me'

It's because you are wrong.
If I pay for a service, I expect it to be as written. I don't understand why that is a problem. If I pay for a ticket, I expect the train to run as timetabled, unless there is a sudden, unforseeable problem.
This is why travelling on the trains was always a disaster when I was with my grandfather, he was used to Edwardian and pre-war services and would never plan for delays or cancellations.
I am old, and by the gods, I truly miss British Rail.

TobyLerone Tue 18-Feb-14 12:48:34

i am outspoken and no one dares agree with me

You are Katie Hopkins and I claim my £5.

kungfupannda Tue 18-Feb-14 12:49:25

But everyone who ever moves anywhere ever is an incomer.

By that logic, everyone should stay in the village they were born in, regardless of whether there's a job for them, and marry someone within easy walking distance, and keep a careful record of who's related to who, in order to avoid everyone finishing up as their own grandfathers.

Chippednailvarnish Tue 18-Feb-14 12:55:01

toby that really was uncalled for.

What has poor Katie "rent a gobshite" Hopkins ever done to you?


scantilymad Tue 18-Feb-14 12:55:56

in order to avoid everyone finishing up as their own grandfathers

I think it may have already been suggested that this could be the root of all OP's problems smile

Obviously I should leave Surrey out as that is obvious commuter land

Erm... no it isn't exclusively commuter land.

Out of mine and dh's extensive circle of both friends and family that live here in Surrey NOT ONE of us commutes into London.

And we don't complain about the trains. But if I received shocking service I would.

TobyLerone Tue 18-Feb-14 12:57:41

grin chipped. You're right. Katie is more articulate.

Chippednailvarnish Tue 18-Feb-14 13:15:43

I luffs Katie, especially the way her eyes bulge out of her head, the more faux controversy she spouts.

TobyLerone Tue 18-Feb-14 13:19:23

Me too. She's very funny on twitter.

Kaekae Tue 18-Feb-14 13:24:48

What a pathetic thing to say. My DP pays thousands of pounds to commute and like others have said he can't even get a seat on the train/tube. He faces delays EVERY single day due to a train fault or similar which means he usually isn't home until 8pm. We do live in Surrey, but the reason we ended up here is because of the extortionate house prices in London. I think you live in some sort of deluded world!!

vestandknickers Tue 18-Feb-14 13:32:23

OP I'm an incomer. We used to live in London but moved out when we wanted to start a family. We wanted access to better schools, countryside and a nice big garden. My DH still commutes because he wouldn't have found an equivalent job where we are. I work locally and my children go to local schools. We spend our money locally, support independent shops and I am a very active fundraiser for both my childrens' schools. In short we contribute to our adopted community.

My DH does complain about the trains because he spends thousands a year to get to work and the service is appalling. If he gets delayed by an hour or more on the way home (which he frequently does) he misses seeing his younger children that day because they are in bed. That is not a situation he should just be expected to accept without complaint.

I'm not sure where I stand on your hate-o-meter because your arguments are so woolly and badly thought out, but maybe you should think about the real families at the receiving end of your ravings. We are not just a homogenous group of leeches and moaners as you seem to imply.

NCISaddict Tue 18-Feb-14 14:05:54

The trouble is with opinions is 'they're like arseholes, every bugger has one' regardless of whether they are well thought out and reasonable.

Not sure how my family fit in, I moved from Dorset to London, then to Surrey, now Hampshire. Both DH and I commuted to London for a while, now only he does. He moans about the trains quite frequently. We rent our house, where do we fit in your 'opinion'?

PerpendicularVince Tue 18-Feb-14 15:28:05

Those damn incomers, and I still don't even know what tehse means.

Lucy, I'm trying to wade through your posts to find a coherent thought, but it's difficult.

YABVU to think that you can decide who gets to live in commuter villages. People have a right to live where they choose, and I'm sure that they make the best choice they can according to their personal circumstances. Your posts read as if you somehow think you're above these people? You aren't - everyone is equal.

People also have a right to a reliable train service, especially as many pay thousands out of their wages. I'd imagine that some of these random unknown people you've seen on TV have got into trouble at work for being late, and are venting their frustrations.

I'll let them know though that anyone in an 'executive home' (whatever that is),is not entitled to an opinion, or to feel frustrated or upset.

ilovesooty Tue 18-Feb-14 15:51:20

Over 200 posts and it's still incompreh ensible in terms of the OP's attempts to construct an argument.

Calloh Tue 18-Feb-14 16:22:53

I think I sort of know what you mean a little bit OP.

Do you mean that you can't move to somewhere green and lovely with a commute and complain about the commute and stop other houses being built on the green loveliness?

I slightly agree with you regarding the green. If you have children, plan on living over eighty etcetera than you are contributing to the shortage of housing and so shouldn't be too crazily reactionary about new developments - is this what you meant by out at 90?

The thing is with commutes - they are unpleasant and crazily expensive. If you pay a lot for a service and it is not how you want than you should use your power as a consumer to try and change it.

Villagers are free to sell their houses or not. If they sell them they can choose to sell them to whomever they choose, they don't have to sell to the highest price. But if they do sell to someone from London that person does not lose their right to complain about shitty train services.

NewBeginings Tue 18-Feb-14 18:14:12

Am I allowed to moan about the trains as I live where I was born but have to commute as I can't get a job here?? Not everyone who lives in the Home Counties was born somewhere else you know. And no I don't earn enough to move to london!

Isabeller Wed 19-Feb-14 00:45:29


please please OP I want to understand but I am completely mystified.

Who are you cross with, what have they done wrong and what do you want them to do instead?

Or have I got the wrong end of the logjam?

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