AIBU or am I just being PFB?(129 Posts)
Went round to MILs this evening and she asked us if we want to go out for a meal for her mum's birthday in a few weeks time.
She then said she'd book the table for 7.30. As there's a few of us going, and the place we're going isn't exactly particularly speedy, this will mean the whole thing is a long drawn-out affair so we probably wouldn't be finished until 9.30 at the earliest.
We have a 3 week old baby and I'm trying to establish some sort of half-decent bedtime routine with him so that we can all try and egg some sleep.
I said it was a little bit too late and could we do it any earlier because I'm the one who has to deal with DS in the night when he's unsettled.
MIL said no because she's going out in the day and 'needs time to get ready'.
DP said okay we'll bring the pram in and he can sleep in that while we're eating. I said I don't want him getting over tired which is what will happen if he gets passed round a table of people. MIL then said I was being precious and that I couldn't stop people having a cuddle of him.
AIBU not to want to take my baby out on an evening or am I just being precious?
In all honesty? Expecting a bedtime routine at 3 weeks old is crazy! One late night wouldn't do any child harm, let alone a newborn that sleeps 16 hours a day.
Bit of both really IMO. Routine; at 3 weeks won't happen (baby may ba falling into some natural routine but don't count on it lasting).
I don't particularly like taking DS (4weeks) out in evenings but that's mainly because it's cold/ dark/ windy/ wet/ bloody miserable . If it was summer I'd be happy to, 9.30 isn't v late.
So, if you really want to go don't worry about taking baby, if you don't; perfect excuse!! Win win
You're being too precious. The sooner you learn that life doesn't work around a routine and family are more important than one night away from the routine the better.
I know I can't establish a bedtime routine yet, I just mean he seems to be more settled on the evenings where he has feeds, pyjamas, feed, then is laid in his crib as opposed to the evenings where we've seen family and he's had a lot of different people holding him if you see what I mean.
Sorry but a bit PFB. Babies at that age are really portable.
I understand what you mean.
i wouldn't be going to be honest. I have a 4 week old. It's dark and wet and windy at night so would be avoiding st all cost.
if you have to go, just tell everyone they aren't allowed to hold the baby as he's unsettled/tired. That's what i would do.
It is ok to say no to him being passed around. Especially on this occasion. In your shoes I'd arrive early, take baby for a walk in the pram so they go to sleep then put hood up and drape a blanket over to discourage poking and prodding. But using the excuse that the restaurant is a bit bright/it'll cut down on noise being likely to wake baby and you want everyone to enjoy their meal in peace.
It's not for your MIL to pass judgement on you or tell you who can/can't have a cuddle with your (very gorgeous) 3 week old.
You be as protective/controlling/firm as you like when it comes to your newborn baby, other people have to fit in
or fuck off
Although saying that, if he wants to sleep he'll drop off regardless of whether he's in the pram/being cuddled, they're not looking to be entertained at 3 wks so he won't be distracted by being somewhere different, so long as you and his Dad are there he'll be fine
Your DH needs to nip the way your MIL is talking to you in the bud though, don't let her try to undermine you, the people who get to call the shots are you and your DH because you know your DS best.
If you're not happy to fit in with her plans it's your right to not go, you don't even have to give a reason
Younger than 6 weeks old is actually the easiest age to take them out to a late meal since they sleep so much at that age and wake up through the night anyway. It's not as if your baby is 1 and can't be out of a routine without ruining night-time sleep or 2 and will get hyper and cranky if they're out late. Enjoy the only upside of a newborn's sleep chaos while you can!
If you're not comfortable with it regardless you could always just join them for an hour until 8:30 and then head home.
It's easy to see that when you're out the other side Avery, but the OP's traumatised
She's only known her DS three weeks, I'm still in shock at having two 13 and 4 years on
Three weeks old is just so snuggly, I want my 3 weeks old babies back <frustrated>
Agent you can come look after DS for a night if you want. Plenty of newborn snuggles to be had when he's refusing to go to sleep at 4 am and has been up for the last 7 hours!
I'm a broken woman
I'll go for a good sleep while you get your newborn fix
Your missing a trick here - at that age they're so portable and sleep lots so you can have a peaceful meal. Give it a few months and you'll wish you'd gone out every night for a meal!
YABalittlebitU but not much. I think your MIL should be a bit more compromising towards you.
However, at that age, my DD slept like an absolute log in busy places. Background noise was like a drug to get. So yours may surprise you.
I would go, but plan in advance with your DP, for example that if your DS is sleeping you don't pass him round for cuddles, if he cries you both take it in turns to take him off for a push, etc.
Oh if only Slh
Cuddling up in bed with them gave me a better hit than any drug I took in my youth, and I had this one on tap.
He'll be at uni in the blink of an eye, don't let your MIL make you question your care of him
I wouldn't have wanted to take DD2 (now seven weeks) out in the circumstances you describe at three weeks. Maybe now at seven weeks I would, but at three weeks I wouldn't have wanted her passed around a whole table full of people.
One night won't do any harm. A routine queen but at that age I loved the fact that DD would fall asleep for hours on end, thus enabling me to go out for lunch/dinner etc and enjoy adult company while she slept soundly in her stroller next to me. All you need to do is a sad head tilt which says oh sorry no cuddles right now, he's sleeping and people will understand.
The thing is if this is in a few weeks everything might have changed by then (they start a new phase every couple of weeks at the newborn stage) and you'll probably be glad to go as either the noise will help your baby sleep through it all, or you can hand your baby around while you eat two handed, you just can't second guess it (later on, I'd say 3-4 months you can) so just go and enjoy it as much as possible.
Go but with the pram and avoid the pass the parcel with baby is sleeping. And yy to the pp who said nip this type of guilt trip in the bud from MIL
Just go. Keep baby in pram. If he wakes, let them cuddle him. He's still too young for it to matter. Honestly, this is the portable stage, make the most of it.
It's just one night. Enjoy it.
Massively PFB. Expecting an adult meal to revolve around a three week old s pretty ridiculous. They're at their most portable at that age.
Make the most of it. If DS is asleep, put him in pram and enjoy eating a meal with the full use of both hands. If awake, allow all those willing volunteers to cuddle him while you eat your meal.
go and enjoy it! I could've been out for a meal at this stage and dd would've been fine. Since about eight weeks however she will not settle at night unless it's in the dark in her cot and she must be there by seven or there's hell to pay.
In your situation, and I am, I'd be a bit selfish. As you say, you're the one who'll be up with him. MIL sounds a bit pushy though maybe it's an opportunity for her to show him off.
I'd pack them all off and snuggle up somewhere warm and enjoy the peace and quiet. People with older children/adults seem to forget how tiring newborns are and how focused you are on them.
You know your baby. If he won't be able to cope, don't take him.
FWIW, our DD didn't sleep that well at that age and 7-10 was screaming time, so I wouldn't have inflicted her on anyone else, either at home or out. She only got more portable as she got older.
If you do go, you don't have to let the world and his wife manhandle him if he's asleep or needs feeding.
So, depending on the baby you may be UR or R <sore arse from fence sitting>
I'd be tempted not to go simply because of MIL's attitude personally. You don't tell the mother of a 3 week old that they're "being precious" IMO.
You don't tell the mother of a 3 week old that they're "being precious" IMO.
Some people need telling.
But you're allowed to be precious.
3 week PFB, he's new, you're knackered.
MIL is probably desperate to show him off but really, at this stage, do what suits you.
Having said that, I'd go along with the others who say take him while he's still very portable.
Whilst I think you should go and it will be fine - I want you to know that you're totally allowed to be PFB. It's a very precious time for you and three weeks is tiny.
Your MIL is forgetting what this period of new motherhood is like.
midnight I agree some people do need telling but in this case the baby is brand new, OP can be as "precious" as she likes for the first few weeks.
I would say that whilst you can take the baby out for dinner and it won't have much, or any, effect on the routine (just as everybody else has said) you should do what you want and don't feel pressured into doing what MIL or anyone else thinks you should be doing.
No way I'd be going with a three week old!!
If you do go how about a sling? Tell everyone it's to take up less room in a restaurant
and then no-one gets to cuddle him unless you want them too
What about a compromise? Why don't you go and tell them you'll only be able to stay until X time? OR go for the first half hour or hour simply to say happy birthday and let everyone say hi to the baby and then leave.
Tell them you're still buggered, you're sure they understand with a newborn how little sleep you're getting and you'd love to catch up for a lunch sometime later.
I wouldn't go with a 3 week old, especially if they're going to get passed around all evening. I was going to bed at 8pm when DS was that age so I could cope with all the night feeds!
Strict routine or not, I personally think it's good to get even tiny babies used to a dark, quiet bedroom at night so they learn the difference between night and day and start to set their body clock.
We've always put our DS's sleep above our social life and lots of people are a bit about it. But he slept 11 hours a night from 11 weeks and is still a great sleeper now at nearly 2yo. Could be luck, but who knows?!
I took DS out at 3 weeks in v cold weather for a friends birthday. He slept in his pram most of the time thanks to the background noise and only DH, birthday girl and I got to cuddle him when he was awake. It was great. Those days are long gone! I'd make the most of it IMO.
Do you want to go for the meal? If you do, your baby will be fine with it as a one-off. If, however, you don't feel like a night-time outing with a newborn, then there's no reason why you should feel pressured into it Just because it would be technically possible to take your baby with no ill-effects doesn't mean it's compulsory.
There's nothing 'PFB' (annoying, smug phrase) about it. When my son was six weeks old, I would have been falling asleep on my plate by half past nine. We did go out, but for very early dinners in very local places, and tended to be home again by seven or half-past.
Seize the opportunity to eat out while the child is small. Soon it will be in a routine and you'll rue the day you didn't make the most of your opportunities to get out while it is portable
Get a good sling. Strap baby on. Eat chat and enjoy
If you will find it tiring to be out with a tired or unsettled baby then just pop in and say hello - but it's massively unreasonable to ask them to make dinner earlier or a group of adults. A 3 week old doesn't know it's late at night!. A toddler is much harder to take out than a 3 week old - I promise you cannot be starting a routine whatever you think ! Sleep patterns constantly change in the first few months
We had some lovely dinners with our tiny baby sleeping in a buggy - the noise was like white noise and helped the baby sleep.
But you don't have to let a tired baby be passed around - and if you won't enjoy it don't go. Personally I would go and say hello with baby asleep in buggy.
But don't start down the path of making people change plans for a tiny baby ... That way madness lies
One of the great things about that age is you can rake them.out with you! I don't blame you for not wanting him to be passed around if he is settled in his pram though, although you may find he is unsettled in which case you'll be glad of plenty people to hold him while you eat! Also, you are talking about a few weeks away, he could be very different then to now
I wouldn't fancy it at that age, tbh. Not so much the going out and leaving him to sleep in the pram, that I could do - it's the assumption that he will be passed around to all the rellies at the table and not given a chance to sleep that would put me off!
I agree that you shouldn't bother trying to make them change the time - 7:30 isn't that late, even though service will be slow etc., if they'd said 8:30 I'd think you had more of a point there - and you could have a good time but you'd need to establish some sort of boundaries whereby you get to put your baby down to sleep in his pram when he needs it, not when the aunties and grannies have all had their turn cuddling him.
Go! One of my best decisions was to go out for DH's birthday when DS was a few weeks old. Went with ILs and grandparents. We took the sling, DS slept the whole meal, I ate a lovely hot meal, enjoyed adult conversation and we were home by 9 to put him to bed. A tiny baby doesn't know what time it is. Make the most of it now!
Babies at that age are brilliant because you can pop them in the pram and take them with you and more often than not as long as they have a full belly and clean nappy they will sleep all the way through the evening. Just pop the hood of your pram up and drape a blanket over the front and no one will want to disturb your baby. Easy! Not so easy when they get older I'm afraid so make the most of it if I were you and this is from experience as I have 3 children.
He may be asleep but he also may not be. My babies were always really unsettled at night and going to a meal would have been really stressful. They cluster fed at this age and at night and I'd often be eating dinner whilst feeding and definitely wouldn't have wanted to sit at the table feeding all night. I also couldn't have been bothered to get ready to go out with a sleepless night to look forward to.
So if you are being PFB I would have been being PFB PSB and PTB (1st 2nd and 3rd!).
IMissRedWine PFB = Precious First Born.
Used (mostly) affectionately about first time mothers who are getting their knickers slightly in a twist.
They're so portable and easy at that age. I would go.
It depends on the baby! They are not all 'portable and easy' at this age.
Dh and I would have had to take turns to eat while walking Ds around the restaurant! Plus I was still majorly struggling with bf at this stage and would have hated going to a restaurant as chances are I'd have to feed and latching was really painful, I was only wearing baggy t shirts and no bra because of my nipples!
Ds did not 'sleep lots' and wouldn't stay in his pram.
Hmmmmm at that age i wouldn't have wanted to take a baby out for a meal, not because of a routine cause they don't have a routine but at 3 weeks but I would have spent the whole meal with my boobs out but trying to be discrete, but probably failing and that's not fun!
I agree with Pigeon.
I'd have been asleep at 9pm.
Sounds like you Dh and mil have a busy night ahead of them.
I agree that three week old tinies are very portable - I really would make the most of it! It's definitely ok to feel precious - I certainly did as regards to people constantly wanting to hold DS1 to the point where I'd have to ask for him back to feed! BUT it doesn't last forever and certainly doesn't happen now. On the very rare occasion we go out for an evening meal (really really rare now because DS (2) does have a routine, does get over tired) no one wants to entertain him/sit with him/run around after him. Seriously, go, it's a one-off and you'll get to eat a nice meal while your baby is cuddled! It soon changes
I agree with midnightscribbler, if he is asleep he is no bother, if awake someone is bound to want to hold him while you eat. The easiest age to take out.
If u would rather be at home
Breastfeeding or sleeping then you are being totally reasonable - but your babies routine is not such a good reason
I wouldn't go.
I never understood mothers who said the last feed was 11pm ish.
I gave the last feed at 8pm ish and then went to bed.
Going out for lunch would be far better.
If I'd only had DD1 I would have said everything everyone else had about tinies being portable, make the most of it etc etc.
But I've also got DD2 now and after that experience, I'd say it totally depends on your baby.
With the first, I'd have trotted off anywhere and done anything because she really was portable.
With the second, you'd have had to plant a nuclear bomb under the house to get me out of it in the evening. DD2 was hard work in the evenings, often very fractious and screaming on and off, with bad wind and explosive nappies, feeding every 20 minutes for a few minutes at a time, then stopping to have a look round, exposing me to anyone who cared to glance in my direction, rather than latching on and staying there and all punctuated with the sounds of her yelling. Not no way, no how or ever would I have gone to a restaurant with her.
So my conclusion. Is that some babies are definitely portable. Some are definitely not (especially if you want other people to be able to enjoy meals in peace).
You know your baby, you know what state you are in every evening (dog tired and grumpy in my case, as DD2 started her mothering at about 5 and could go on until midnight, and sometimes beyond).
Routines - not wildly important at this stage.
Your sanity - very important. Do what helps you hang on to it.
I don't think YABU as a three week old baby is still tiny and I personally just wouldn't be able to relax as mine were real screamers at that age. However, they really aren't into a routine so if you have a settled baby and you were relaxed about it all then go and enjoy a meal out and leave early.
If you don't fancy it (your MIL sounds a bit rude so I can see why you might not feel line spending time with her when you are already exhausted!) then don't go, but use yourself as the excuse as well as the baby.
Just say you are too tired to feel up to a meal out & that your baby is cluster feeding in the evenings so you need to be at home together. At that age, mine all fed pretty constantly from around 5-10pm & I was usually sitting in bed, feeling a bit sorry for myself, with DH bringing drinks & snacks to try & help me keep the milk supply building up. There's no way I would have wanted to do that in public in front of a load of relatives!
All those of you saying that the OP is being precious and that newborns are portable and family come before routines blah blah, I say sod that. At 3 weeks my DS was screaming every evening unless me or DH paced up and down the living room with him. We were frickin knackered and didn't go out at all. You know what? it was a few months out of our whole lives and yes, at that time the needs of our baby and us came first. Luckily our families have the sense to realise that in those circumstances a slow drawn out evening dinner with people passing a grumpy baby around would have been a fucking stupid idea but it seems the OP's family aren't as switched on. I say put your foot down OP and enjpy your baby's first weeks. They go very quickly
Make your excuses, send DH off without you and snuggle up at home in your pyjamas. You won't get this time back & you need to look after yourself at the moment, not worry about pleasing other people or passing your baby around to be looked at.
YANBU to not want to go out socializing with a tiny baby but it's about you not the baby. If you're not up for it, that's fair enough. Don't talk about a 4 week old getting overtired because that does sound very pfb. Just say that you're not ready to go out socializing with the baby yet, especially not in the evenings. Fair play
Have you got a decent sling - a stretchy wrap or something? If you put him in there then a) he'll probably sleep much better than in the pram, and b) he's attached to you so no-one can possibly grab him for cuddles without your permission (not that they should anyway, but it sounds like MIL might try).
No one is being U, but your MIL is not being very considerate.
Yes, 3 week old babies may well be relaxed and portable (though some certainly are not) but 3 week old MOTHERS are often still emotional, recovering from birth, sleep-deprived, shell-shocked, and walking irrational zombies who bear only a passing physical resemblance to a normal person.
You have just given birth. If staying in encouraging a routine is what you want to do, do it. You may well realise later only in retrospect how portable your baby was, and that you maybe were being a bit PFB. Who cares?! This IS your PFB. You made a new human being.
Do whatever it takes to get you and him used to each other, used to the new world you inhabit, and through the day. Other people may think you are insane, but that's ok. I certainly went more than a little insane esp after my first baby was born. I used to panic if we were out in the evening, and the constant question of 'what will tonight be like?' was exhausting.
Your H should support you and gently shield you from others, particularly his family, in whatever it is you need. You and your son are only just post-partum. Be kind to yourself, especially if other people aren't!
you know your own baby, but trying for a routine at 3 weeks seems a bit crazy, especially as it might work sometimes then the other times it wont and you will be fighting to try and make them.
At 3 weeks, i went out at the same time, had ds in a moby wrap, but we did lie him in his pram while we were eating and he just lay there and watched.I didnt let him be passed around, I put him back in the sling when he got a bit unsettled, and did have to walk about with him a bit. he wasnt screaming, and just slept. They did try and get me to hand him over for photos, but luckily he was sleeping, and i just ignored them,
but the annoying bit was the family saying, "oh wasnt he so good" and other things, then trying to do it again when he was 2 months when he had put himself in a routine.
It wont be that fun for you, if you do go, cut up all your food when you start so you actually get some, and the wrap was the best thing as they cant just pick the baby up like its in a pram.
Yes MIL does try and grab him off me, as does SIL. There has been several times where he's been asleep in his crib or on me and they've tried to take him in a 'oh come to grandma/auntie' way and I've had to say no he's fine just here - sorry for the drip feed, didn't mean to!
I have noticed that on the evenings we've been out somewhere other than home later than 8 or 9 pm he's a hell of a lot harder for me to settle and is up and down all night long, whereas other nights he only wakes for a couple of feeds and goes back down straight afterwards, rather than screaming the house down.
"MIL then said I was being precious and that I couldn't stop people having a cuddle of him."
I think she'll find you can.
Work it out for yourself as you go along, OP, don't do what other people who obviously aren't interested in supporting your new-mother experiences tell you to do. (That is, by all means take advice from people who are genuinely trying to help. Just don't listen to people who are put out by the fact that you would prefer to be in control of your own new motherhood or who can't accept that you are a new mother, and therefore can't just adopt the behaviour of someone who's gone through it all before.)
YABU to expect the timing of the meal to be determined by your baby, it's not your or your husband's birthday, also your reasoning of routine or being overtired are not reasonable.
However you would be perfectly reasonable to say you'll go if you feel up to it on the day, if not you'll stay at home. In a few weeks your baby may be going through an unsettled time, at that age my first screamed for hours every evening whilst my second was no problem at all. It could be that on that day you're absolutely knackered or you may be fine. The point is you don't know so just wait and see. Your husband can always go to his grandma's birthday without you if necessary.
generally they are quite portable when they are younger and it doesn't matter where they are they will feed and sleep without problem. There are babies who just dont sleep in the evening and as someone else said up thread they just cluster feed and scream, which far from making the evening enjoyable would make it a stressful nightmare
dd4 I remember it well never had a hot evening meal for months
OP if your baby is not an evening screamer, and you have a few weeks to see how things are, then go and enjoy yourself, if your baby is very unsettled then dont go. I agree with not playing pass the baby though
I meant to add onto my last post, it may be coincidence that he settles better when he's had a 'quiet evening' but even so, my ILs aren't the ones who are going to be up at 4 am trying to settle a screaming baby.
I have every sympathy with you and think you should do what feels right.
DD1 would have been a nightmare. She fell into a bedtime routine at five weeks and was sleeping through at 13 weeks. At 21 months we've never looked back (except for the odd night for teeth or something). She has always needed that quiet routine.
DD2 is a horse of a very different colour. She would be fine in a pram being rocked to sleep in a noisy restaurant (although picking her up and cuddling her would get short shrift as that would make her overtired) and would likely stay asleep for a couple of hours. That said at 20 weeks, I'm yet to get more than four hours sleep in one go and would sell my soul for a decent night. She wakes up at 11 or so for a feed anyway, so I'd just do it when we got home.
The phrase 'newborns are really portable' really pisses me off. Some are, some aren't. You're not being PFB, you're getting to know your baby.
If you want to go then go. He's pretty portable etc etc.
But if you don't want to go - don't go. You are allowed to do what you want to and what you think is best for DS at moment.
Mil sounds a pain. Who needs all day to get ready!
I'd go with the 'blanket over the pram' line.
The trouble with a sling is that you end up dripping gravy on their heads.
Or is that just me?
clam i agree sauce or gravy is a possibility, i ordered non drippy things for a bit.
Yep, you are being previous. I am a routine queen with my kids and they have strict bedtimes, but there is no point trying to establish a routine with a three week old.
Enjoy being able to take out your ds while he is still small...it is much less fun when they can walk/run/knock over drinks/have tantrums etc!
Interesting that someone needing time to get ready is used to justify not adjusting the time to one easier for new parents and tiny baby
YANBU. You've mentioned what would help you if it's important to them for you to be there - unless you're comfortable doing it and want to, you're also totally NBU to say thanks, lovely to be asked, but no can do, have a great time.
Not all 3 week old babies are portable and laid back. DC1 spent 4pm to 10 pm every single night screaming with colic at that age, there is no way she'd have laid asleep in a pram or been passed around.
If your baby would be more settled in a sling then I would go with that option tbh, or if the baby would be very unsettled then don't go (me taking DC1 would have ruined everyone's evening at that time).
Don't feel that you have to be bossed about by family in terms of caring for your baby - you're in charge.
I differ from the majority view here. Not all tiny babies are portable. I think there's a good chance you'll have a miserable evening because your DS will be crying and unsettled and demand lots of attention. Even if he does miraculously sleep through you'll probably be up all night attending to him because he'll be wide awake.
I think some licence ought to be given to parents of newborns. You're usually pretty knackered.
I think YBU simply in using the baby as an excuse. The baby may not care one way or another. But this dinner date is inconvenient to you and at 7 weeks post-birth you have a perfect right to say so. (in fact, you would have a right to say so at any time)
This is something very nice people do: they feel so bad about taking up space of their own that they try to hide behind their children because it makes them feel less bad. Don't do it: be assertive, tell your MIL that you are too tired and that this time is too much for you. Or just smile and say "sorry I can't make it, hope you have a lovely time".
Just because you're now a mum doesn't mean you no longer have any rights of your own.
Don't go. Stay in the warm with your baby and put him first, you'll learn in time that nobody else puts your baby first but expects you to do all sorts of things to put them first. If they want to cuddle your baby they know where you live.
*I wouldn't go with a 3 week old, especially if they're going to get passed around all evening. I was going to bed at 8pm when DS was that age so I could cope with all the night feeds!
Strict routine or not, I personally think it's good to get even tiny babies used to a dark, quiet bedroom at night so they learn the difference between night and day and start to set their body clock. *
I have a 4 week old and must be precious 2nd born as there's no way you'd be dragging me anywhere in the evening at the minute!
My first thought would have been "never mind whether it suits the baby - I'm too tired to be awake past nine!
Oh, and as for "you can't stop people having a cuddle of him" - I think you'll find you can.
I know it's an unpopular view and he isn't just my baby blah blah... but frankly, while he's this tiny and new, he is mine, and I'll be precious if I want.
Mine mine all mine mwahahahaha!
Not PFB, some babies are portable, some are not. DD was, DS most definitely was not. While he did have reflux and was uncomfortable a lot, based on the personality we've seen emerge I'm convinced half his crying was now overstimulation and upset at being with anyone other than me.
I feel guilty because I fell for the whole "you need to pass them around to socialize them, otherwise they'll hate other people forever and always" line - complete BS. If you feel your DS is better at home for now, please trust your instincts. People can think you're precious all they want, you are his only voice at the moment.
If however you want to give it a try, go with the freedom to bail at any time. Try the pram with coverings to avoid the passed-around bit, or perhaps a sling will help him sleep and stop asks for a hold.
Someone once said to me that there are two types of families. Those that can do things and those that can't.
My SIL is in the 'can't do' category and it has meant her kids have missed out on a lot of family occasions and trips to see relatives abroad.
I think we are a can do family, our baby is up and down to London from the north and has driven from the north of England to the south of France. If he has one night out of his routine the world doesn't end and it's back to normal the next day.
Routine is one thing but a bit of flexibility is a good thing to teach children too. I think if you have a set in stone routine for children which means you turn down invitations and events it becomes very limiting for your children in the long run.
I think for things like big family events and holidays a bit of flexibilty to the routine is a good thing.
zee is right newborns really don't need to be socialised.
If you want to socialise that's fine but the baby isn't going to be bored having a night in
Routine is one thing but a bit of flexibility is a good thing to teach children too. I think if you have a set in stone routine for children which means you turn down invitations and events it becomes very limiting for your children in the long run.
Absolutely but I'd apply that to an older child rather than a 3 week old. A 3 week old isn't missing out on anything.
There is also the question of whether being a "can do" family means you've got to agree to everything that's convenient to other people.
Flexible routines can be a great thing, enabling you to do things.
But equally a family reputation for flexibility can mean you end up spending all your time enabling other people to do as they like, "because Slh won't mind".
When dc were little I was forever bending backwards, anxious to show how flexible and wonderful I was. Yes, dc have grown up flexible and adaptable people and that is a good thing. But in retrospect I spent far too much time on passive agressive seething, waiting for people to notice my flexibility and meet me halfway. They rarely did.
If you want to socialise that's fine but the baby isn't going to be bored having a night in
SOME babies are portable at that age, some are not!!
DD is 8 weeks old. We have and still go out for as many lunches as we want with no problems, but an evening meal??? That's been a no no since day 1. If we get home after 7pm DD is unsettled all night as it disturbs her 6:30-10:30 cluster feeding period. I too would be spending the entire time with my boobs out, trying and failing to be discrete, and not getting any food!!
My DM is the same as your MIL tho- she doesn't remember what that's like! Get your DH to deal with her, she shouldn't be laying the law down to you- no one should be speaking to you like that, no matter what relationship they are!
Ds1-I would have said no, not going.
Ds2 and ds3? Would have gone, baby asleep in pram; I would have enjoyed it.
Def pfb but this isn't a bad thing. What a shame mil couldn't have arranged for an hour earlier-you stay for 2 hours= compromise reached.
But if you don't want to go - don't. Snuggle up instead.
As an aside-bedtime routine at 3 weeks? Let me know how that goes
It depends on the baby, some are really easy others (my last one) was a proper howler, I wouldn't have taken him because he did nothing but cry/scream and I wouldn't spoil people's evening.
If you have a fussy baby, and it causes tension for you to not go, can you go for a while then if baby is crying a lot, everyone will understand (& b glad) if you leave early?
Hahaha it has to be a joke. I'd hardly be out that late now and certainly not with a newborn. Simply too much effort for me.
if it suits u then go, enjoy, and get a sling. If not jusif not just say it doesn't suit but thanks.....dont waste you time getting into it with someone who is rude enough to call you precious.......newborn baby.....your newborn baby. F that.
I know this isn't the issue, but "MIL then said I was being precious and that I couldn't stop people having a cuddle of him" would tick me off! He's your baby, not a public-service teddy bear.
I think you should go with him in a pram like your DP says but insist that he doesn't get passed around, oggled at or prodded.
And I fail to understand why so many people give new mothers unwanted advice.u can do whatever u want seeing ur the one up at night. I wouldn't expect them to time it to suit u but neither would I put myself out to suit them.ur baby isnt a toy for mil.
Seasicksal....... I'm a can do.... what that now means is as cory says other people dont do as they think I always will. Its very annoying and makes me less inclined to make an effort with people who cant do.
i currently have a precious 2nd born so im very tired and typing badly. ... I just re read the ops message. ... its not even advice here...the mil is telling her what to do!!
only thing is mil asked if they'd like to come.... u u can just say no!!!@
I wouldn't have gone. I was far too exhausted for a late night. And DS was screaming at night. You will to have the balls of a brass elephant to stand up to people wanting a cuddle. You will be the one stressed to the eyeballs if you baby is crying and upset. Everyone but you will be able to zone it out as background noise.
And ignore those crying PFB. This is a hateful stupid phrase used to silence and ridicule any woman who is trying to do the best by her baby. It is your baby and your call and no-one elses'.
'routine' is a lie told by people who sell childcare books.
but you are absolutely right not to want your little one passed round like a parcel.
if you have to go (and it might be better not to if you and baby would be uncomfortable) then make it clear that baby stays with you.
Thought I'd catch up on this thread. I'm surprised nobody has acknowledged that the DP and baby's father is ok with this and wants to go.
Go, settle your baby in the pram, only let him be passed around as much as you feel happy to and make it clear to your DP that he's to back you up.
It's one night, there are 2 parents there. I agree with whoever it was up thread who differentiated between the can do people and the can't. Those with a can do attitude are going to have a greater success rate if raising a more adaptable child who will grow into a more flexible and adaptable adult with a can do attitude, that's my beliefs anyway.
My dd needed a routine (it was not a lie for us) from a very early age and wouldn't/couldn't sleep in simulating environments. Tell them you know your child best and your not up for it. Every baby/child is different and everyone with the 'they'll sleep anywhere' type attitudes won't be up with you if it turn into a nightmare in the early hours.
Joysmum, I do agree about can and can't do people, but sometimes it's more a case of want to and don't want to people!! I don't think the OP wants to! (And I wouldn't either!)
Yanbu! I had a nice routine from about 3 weeks and mainly wanted my evenings snuggled with my family out of the cold. I think do what you want, dont be a martyr and make yourself miserable and tired. If anyone wants to visit make it a day time affair.
Personally i dont like seeing babies out in the evening, they Lways seem uncomfertable and over tired to me
If you don't want to go for fear of upsetting a routine then you probably ABabitU as at 3weeks it won't matter much.
If you are not going because you will be knackered and incapable of speech let alone polite conversation - YANBU.
If you don't go because you don't your little one to be pass the parcel when they want to sleep - YANBU, they are a person not a toy.
If you don't want to go because you can't be arsed, it's too cold or you won't get to enjoy the meal and you'll be stressed - YANBU.
But you can't expect them to change their mealtime for someones birthday to suit a baby.
Who are all these people with portable sleeping babies? No way I would've took Ds - he was a right whingey PITA from 7-9pm and did not sleep for prolonged periods so I just wouldn't have relaxed in that situation. (not bitter at all )
Oh, and OP I don't think there's owt wrong with having a routine in general even if you're made to feel like a miserable taskmaster as seems to be the case often on here. It's probably just best to wait until their a little bit older and more co-operative in joining you in that routine
The ops dh isn't the one up at night so he probably hasn't really thought about it. Probably doesn't really understand how unsettled the baba might get. I know my dh hadn't a clue when we had our first.
There is no way I would have wanted to go out for dinner, anywhere any time, 3 weeks post partum. My boobs were huge, I was still struggling with getting a good latch, dcs fed constantly in the evenings. I can't think of anything worse.
(btw though, YABU to epect a routine at 3 weeks)
Your MIL is very unreasonable! Whether or not your 3 week old is 'portable', you are in the midst of many weeks of sleep-deprived nights, and only you are the one who is going to have to get up for your new baby that night and every other night before and after for a while. so I actually think that it's about how you feel rather than how your mother in law feels. She has arranged it apparently without thinking about you, and that is selfish. I think I would be tempted to say 'Sorry I can't come because we find the baby does better overnight if we have a quiet, non-stimulating evening. I would have loved to have come if it had been earlier in the day'. With DC1 we got pulled into these type of social situations and it was a nightmare. By DC2,3 and 4 we put our foot (feet?) down and said that we would not be going out for any evening events until we had got through the newborn 'survival' stage (for us, this meant we didn't go out in the evening for 12 weeks). It worked out fine. We did loads of socialising in the daytime, so didn't miss out, but come 6pm, the front door was shut and we focused on getting thru the evening and night with as much sleep as possible for all. The opportunity to go out in the evening (and not suffer the next day), will be back in a few months. Good luck.
OP says the baby is currently three weeks old.
The outing is to take place in a few weeks time.
So, the baby will no longer be three weeks old when it takes place. Just saying this because most people so far have referred to the baby being three weeks old on the day, which he won't be.
OP if you don't want to go then don't. I would have said no as well for a number of reasons. It sounds to me like you're actually doing a great job by putting your baby first, by considering his comfort above all else.
I would have no problem with going out in the evening - did it a lot with DS until he was about 12 weeks and it suddenly got much much easier - but would have a big problem with him being handed around like a parcel when you know the baby would be happier and more settled later on if left quietly in the pram.
Your MIL's comments would have me in hugely contrary 'let's see about that, shall we?' mood.
Actually, thinking back, at 3 weeks I wouldn't have contemplated an evening out (chained to sofa with cluster feeding and witching hour) but I did between 5 and 12 weeks.
Who are these people with newborns who sleep?? This has been bugging me all night so I have to say: All babies are different and therefore parents should feel free to do as they see fit without being accused of being precious.
2nd born DD slept lots but clusterfed between 6 and 9. Nice evenings out? Hardly. First born DS - he averaged 10hrs sleep a day the first several weeks. Drove me nuts. Photos of him as a newborn = very tired, very grumpy, wizened-old-man alien baby. Evenings out? Nope. Evenings spent with screaming, overtired child? Every night.
And routines can help at this age - they did loads for us, helped DS stretch to longer sleeps and saved our sanity (mostly). Can-Do and can't-do are ridiculous shaming words. There are simply different ways of coping with the early months and different babies = different experiences.
A 3 week old baby can't have a routine, and will be able to sleep in a pram by the table. Of course you can deny everyone having a cuddle with the baby when it's sleep time!
StopSquabbling, actually I care very much when I'm the one up at 4 am trying to settle my screaming baby.
Those with a can do attitude are going to have a greater success rate if raising a more adaptable child who will grow into a more flexible and adaptable adult with a can do attitude, that's my beliefs anyway
I'm loving all these babies with "can-do" attitudes.
All my 4 week old does is lie about eating and occasionally shitting himself.
He hasn't been to enough social gatherings obviously
i wouldn't expect them to organise their night around my baby but in this situation i probably would not have went. i was still exhausted in the first couple of months, my dd didn't sleep well at all, and getting to sleep early every night was crucial for me to keep sane. you have to think of yourself too.
Haven't read all the replies, but...
...put the baby in a sling and wear him all evening. He'll probably sleep - and anyone wanting a cuddle will have to rip the wrap from you and prise him from between your norks...
I did this with DD2 at about the same age. It was my book group in a pub down the road. I figured it was fine, since the smoking ban. Hardly anyone noticed her, except those hoping - in vain - for a squeeze. I used a Kari-me. It really emphasises mother-and-baby as one unit. One thing I hated, with my first-born, was needing to hold her and no bugger would give her back to me...
You know, what it all boils down to is this: do you want to go? If you do, and are willing to take the potentially disturbed night to follow, stick the baby in a car seat or sling and have a good time. It's also up to you if you allow people to
drool all over have a cuddle with him.
If it all sounds like a right faff and you're tired and fed up and all those other perfectly reasonable things we all feel with a baby that new, then play your "new mother" card and stay home.
DP can go if he wants. He isn't going to be up several times a night with the baby.
If it's too late for you and/or the baby, you are perfectly entitled to say no thank you and give it a miss. It' s not at all precious to put your baby first; when you're exhausted from all the broken nights , it isn't at all precious to say that actually it's too late for you.
If they were all that desperate that the baby should be at the meal then they should have arranged it for a time that would better suit the baby.
I personally wouldn't go, I think you're just getting used to each other and can see why it's unsettling.
Saying, that, they are very portable at that age.
It is your decision though. Either go and just accept everyone will want cuddles, or don't go.
Everyone who is saying how portable babies are do not know YOUR baby. Only you know how your baby is. I've currently got a sleeping one month old on my lap, that has just finished screaming the house down during 'witching hour' which occurs every evening from about 7pm until anytime up to midnight. It was only until 9.35pm tonight.
There is no way I want to be anywhere other than in my PJs sitting on my bed whilst this happens.
You don't know how your baby will be in few weeks time. Tell you MIL your DH will go and you will see how your baby is nearer the time.
And if you want to start a routine at 3 weeks then do try it. How you care for your baby is entirely up to you.
Ps your MIL should not speak to you like that!
Arrive with baby in a sling and no one will question you about gettin baby out, they will all comment about how comfy baby looks and with any luck, baby will sleep right through the event. Practise a bit before hand and you might even be able to feed baby in there too. People always thought my sling (a moby) looked so complicated they never wanted me to get baby out as they thought it would be such a faff. It wasn't, it was so simple, but I never told them that. I got to keep baby just where they needed to be. They don't need to be passed round a table full of people when they are so tiny.
Your missing a trick here - at that age they're so portable and sleep lots so you can have a peaceful meal. Give it a few months and you'll wish you'd gone out every night for a meal!
And you can always leave early.
The title of the thread is asking AIBU or PFB? If somebody is asking if they are being precious, nobody is out of order to say yes
Interestingly, the general concensus is either precious or YANBU with very few people suggesting the OP is BU.
Pianodoodle Try reading what you quoted . It's the parents attitudes that form the attitude of a child, and their attitude as an adult. You mentioned babies, I didn't for precisely that reason.
To all those people praising themselves for their marvellously can do attitudes, perhaps you could stop being self congratulatory for long enough to realise babies are people. That means they are different from o e another. That means they react to the same situation differently. Some babies will scream and protest in a situation whereas others wdon't. Some will keep to their same patterns in a new situation others won't. Having a screaming baby makes social occasions no fun and impossible as you can't hear what anyone is saying anyway. Having a baby who wakes every hour and is difficult to settle each time he wakes makes going on holiday no real fun. It is tough enough having a sensitive baby without having people judge you from a self congratulatory but utterly, utterly ignorant position.
I meant a baby who wakes every hour in a new environment whereas will sleep okay at home.
Wow loads of you are so lucky having portable babies at that age. At 3 weeks old DS just screamed constantly and barely slept a solid two hours at a time. It was colic we think but it just goes to show not all babies are easy at that age. We didn't have a night out till he was about 2 and a half months old!
The baby is 3 weeks old now so won't be 3 weeks old in a few weeks time when this is happening.
A can do attitude isn't about success or failure, it's about trying your best and at least giving it a go.
You look at a situation, you figure out ways how best to make it work and get on with it. If it doesn't work out you come home again but at least you've tried.
Those who don't have a can do attitude don't even bother trying just in case it doesn't work out. How life limiting and not a great example to set to children as they grow up.
Of course that doesn't always mean doing things, but it does mean doing a risk appraisal and asking yourself what's the worst that can happen? In this case, they go, if the baby doesn't settle then one or both of them takes the baby home again, big deal! It's worth it to the baby's father and his (and the baby's) family so the OP should be at least giving it a go imo.
The baby will still be really young! I don't think it's good to plan things, maybe wait till closer the time and see how the baby is then, again, it's unfair to say op is BU as some babies just cry and cry and cry. Not exactly a fun night out for anybody!
Well joysmum. Instead of making the division between those who can or can't do how about making the division between those who know and respect their babies and those who make no changes to their life and just drag their babies along with them? Neither of these are helpful in my opinion, in fact they are both unhelpful judgements on women who are using their own knowledge of themselves and their babies to decide what is best. She is a new mum with a screamy baby who doesn't want a bad night. She doesn't need a risk assessment just to trust her own intuition and not have people spouting crap about her being no can do and failing to do risk assessments.
for those who say "the baby can't be in a routine at this age," of course it can. Now, this might not mean that the baby is in its own routine where it always sleeps from x o'clock until y o'clock, never waking unless it is in a certain environment, but it is perfectly possible, if the op has a baby who settles well in certain circumstances e.g. in a crib in a darkened room, that settling the baby in this way every night ensures that A, the op has some more op time in the evenings, and B, the baby gets some decent sleep and is not unsettled later at night.
There are plenty of people on mn who say that "my baby will only sleep if he is being cuddled/held/driven down the m25," and nobody argues with those people, they tell them to just do what it takes if it means the baby sleeps. So why are people whose babies sleep better in a quiet unstimulated environment expected to change their expectations/routines to accommodate others?
And if being out means the baby is more unsettled at night it's not the mil who is going to be dealing with it in the middle of the night.
"it's only one night," not if the op is up every other night doing night feeds so is sleep deprived anyway, and this means that she's going to be getting even less sleep than she usually does.
Nfw would I have taken my baby out at that age, or passed him around to all and sundry. Anyone who felt the need to criticise me for that would have been free to do so.
There are lots of things which can be construed as gently pfb. Not wanting to go out with a three week old baby and then expecting it to be passed around a dinner table and to then go home to a 4 AM screaming session is not one of them.
People who have these expectations clearly are actually not thinking about the baby or the op, but themselves.
I've had similar pressures. Your baby is tiny and your say is final. A bit of routine can be just as much for the parents as the baby at this stage and helps you know when you might hope to get some rest. If you want to stay home and dry with the baby I wouldn't blame you one bit )
joysmum I was referring to the MIL accusing the OP of being precious - anyone is entitled to their opinion but MIL was out of order actually saying so. And personally I find the "pfb" label really demeaning and unhelpful. But perhaps for another thread ...
I agree with a risk assessment, however I question how well anyone does these at 3 weeks postpartum. I also would add that for us a risk assessment would include the fact we hardly can ever afford a proper meal out, so having to drop and run in the middle of a $100 meal (for 2) is unappealing. Having had to bolt expensive meals/take cold & now soggy food home in doggy bags a few times now I think I'd take a babysitter and a meal out I can actually enjoy any day. Birthdays are every year, it doesn't hurt to miss out for a bit while babies are small.
Baby will be 5/6 weeks by then? You might feel much more amenable to an evening out. If not, plead sickness, pack everyone else off and enjoy the peace and quiet.
PFB - relax and go out for dinner. You won't have that chance when PFB turns into an energetic runaround toddler.
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