To ask if you clean your meat?

(547 Posts)
Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 12:53:28

I use lemon and water or white vinegar and water to clean all my meat.

A colleague said she didn't just through it from pack to pan :O

Her reasoning was 'its free range so that means it clean'.

Another colleague said it is a culture thing. What do you do?

No I just chuck it straight in

Seff Sat 08-Feb-14 12:54:50

I don't, any thing bad should get killed off by the heat shouldn't it?

GirlWithTheDirtyShirt Sat 08-Feb-14 12:54:59

Absolutely not. If anything if think it a hygiene risk - raw meat juices getting splashed around.

If you're going to cook it it'll kill anything you'd "wash" off with cold water anyway I think.

ohmymimi Sat 08-Feb-14 12:55:12

No.

CoffeeTea103 Sat 08-Feb-14 12:55:18

I definitely clean it before cooking. I think it's disgusting from package to pan sitting in the bit of blood. confusedYanbu

Fairylea Sat 08-Feb-14 12:55:26

Nope I just chuck it in.

Would you rinse your mince? smile - I doubt most people would so why do anything else!

ApocalypseThen Sat 08-Feb-14 12:55:39

Why would you clean meat? In what way is it dirty that washing it would fix? You're cooking meat before you eat it, cooking it through, aren't you?

chemenger Sat 08-Feb-14 12:56:12

Never, had never crossed my mind to do so until I joined Mumsnet.

lifesgreatquestions Sat 08-Feb-14 12:56:16

I always saw the women in my family running meat under a tap and kind of giving it a wash - so I sometimes do this even though I know it doesn't do anything meaningful in terms of germs, it does give me a chance to remove bits I don't want to eat, the odd feather, etc.. What does vinegar do to meat do you know? What do you do with fish that so easily picks up flavours?

ouryve Sat 08-Feb-14 12:56:43

I just cook it. I've made it to 44.

If there is anything nasty lurking on it, washing it is more likely to spread it around your kitchen.

lifesgreatquestions Sat 08-Feb-14 12:57:10

Ps, we wash fruit and veg. This doesn't seem far from that.

nonmifairidere Sat 08-Feb-14 12:57:12

Just when you think you've heard it all..............

WorraLiberty Sat 08-Feb-14 12:57:37

No I don't clean it

We've evolved thus far without ever doing that.

NearTheWindmill Sat 08-Feb-14 12:57:44

Nope.

ouryve Sat 08-Feb-14 12:59:49

Fruit and veg have often been in a dirty field and almost certainly in the open air for weeks, or even months. Meat has been in a sealed environment, up until the point of butchery.

ChubbyFeets Sat 08-Feb-14 12:59:51

I rinse it and I rinse mince too. But I also boil my mince first, let it cool, scrape off the fat that freezes at the top and then cook it.

CoteDAzur Sat 08-Feb-14 12:59:52

I do hold it under water for a second to wash off the clots of blood etc, not so it will kill anything off.

WhileWeSleep Sat 08-Feb-14 13:00:28

Only in a beaker grin

Artandco Sat 08-Feb-14 13:01:06

No, it's really unhygienic and restaurants aren't allowed to wash meat. Just think how much chicken juices fly all over the place if you washed it in the sink. Far better to just cook it at what are all high temps in oven/ pan etc

ApocalypseThen Sat 08-Feb-14 13:01:09

Ps, we wash fruit and veg. This doesn't seem far from that.

It not really the same. You're washing pesticides and soil off fruit and veg, you don't wash a vacuum packed fruit salad, surely?

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:02:09

I am realy shocked. Maybe it is a culture thing. My colleague said that English people do not really do it and most people from ethnic minorities do.

The vinegar has high level of acid which kills bacteria and germs.

For those who don't, do you wash your fruit and veg?

Also when you get your meat from the butchers it doesn't look 'clean' if you know what I mean.

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:03:27

It is not unhygenic as you wash the sink and any areas with bleach.

I go to the butchers, wash and season things then freeze it so when I fancy for example steak I can take it out of freezer and leave it to defrost and when I get home it's ready to cook!

squoosh Sat 08-Feb-14 13:03:35

Wouldn't occur to me to indulge in meat ablutions prior to chucking it in the oven.

So if you're having a lovely ribeye steak you douse it in vinegar first OP? Ick.

"Sitting in the bit of blood"
Do you have a problem knowing where meat comes from?

Artandco Sat 08-Feb-14 13:03:57

Yes I wash fruits and veg. Just never meat

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:04:44

PP, with fish I soak it in lime juice and water for about ten minutes. It takes the 'rawness' out from the fish.
Or you can rinse with lemon and water.

ApocalypseThen Sat 08-Feb-14 13:05:08

The vinegar has high level of acid which kills bacteria and germs.

Meat is clean.

Cooking it properly will kill germs.

Puttheshelvesup Sat 08-Feb-14 13:05:28

No, don't really understand why you would. It's very unhygienic to wash meat, and unless you eat meat very rare the blood is not a problem at all once cooked.

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:05:38

Squoosh you don't 'douse' it. You wash it, rinse and there is NO taste of vinegar.

Hoppinggreen Sat 08-Feb-14 13:05:50

My husband thinks we should but I don't - as I do the cooking we don't!!
I think splashing raw chicken juice all over my sink is probably a lot more dangerous than not cooking meat properly in the oven ( even if I thoroughly was my sink afterwards)
Never seen meat washed at all until my husband suggested I should, he is from Germany, not sure if that makes. Difference?

Seff Sat 08-Feb-14 13:06:24

But the heat kills bacteria and germs. If it's dirt, like on potatoes, that's different to germs.

fluffyraggies Sat 08-Feb-14 13:06:28

Nope, chuck it in'er here. Although when i cook ducks at xmas i rinse the carcass' through, because it's game.

Mince rinsing - one of MNs finest 'i never knew anyone did that' moments for me grin

squoosh Sat 08-Feb-14 13:06:56

Sounds like madness to me. I've never done this and made it to the grand old age of 35 without ever having suffered from food poisoning.

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:07:17

Meat is not clean, if you get it from supermarkets it is cleaner than from the butchers.

It is not to just wash the blood.

Example I went to get some lamb chops from the butchers and the woman used her bare hand to take the meat and put it into the bag.

Also chicken has the slimy stuff, feathers (occasionally) and just doesn't look clean!

Artandco Sat 08-Feb-14 13:07:21

Doesn't all your fish taste like limes?

mistermakersgloopyglue Sat 08-Feb-14 13:07:26

What the fuck? Why would you wash meat? Seriously, I do not understand this at all?!

No way, why on earth would you.

I justdon't get it at all.

ApocalypseThen Sat 08-Feb-14 13:08:04

You're not supposed to wash game either - font you see the ads from food safety every Christmas about how you shouldn't ever wash game or poultry?

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:08:17

You clean the area with bleach. Most people I know have a meat bowl. Which you put the meat in, IN the sink and use that to wash.

givemushypeasachance Sat 08-Feb-14 13:09:04

I'm roasting a chicken today and the packaging specifically says not to wash it before cooking it - there's no need! You're cooking it, that'll kill any bacteria. It's not like it's been rolling around on the kitchen floor picking up dust and hair...

giraffesCantMakeResolutions Sat 08-Feb-14 13:09:09

no

That depends if the game came to you in it's natural state or not

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:09:22

The meat does not taste of limes, lemon or lime.

So for those who do not wash, do you take the meat from packet and throw straight in the pan? Skin, slime, dirt and all?

liquidstate Sat 08-Feb-14 13:09:26

Wouldn't the vinegar and lime make it taste weird? Sounds like a lot of hassle to me.

I haven't got vinegar but have come lemon Jif so will give that a go with tomorrows roast and let you know how I got on.

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:10:14

mushy peas, how do you know where your meat has been and who its been touched by from the time its been slaughtered to ending up in your kitchen?

mistermakersgloopyglue Sat 08-Feb-14 13:10:34

A 'meat bowl' - yuk! Just stick it in a really hot pan or oven. A million times more hygienic than messing around with water and bowls and bleach.

Seff Sat 08-Feb-14 13:10:54

I'm not bothered about a bit of blood. It is meat, after all. It was once running around a field (or not, but you know what I mean).

On any food hygiene course I've ever been in, it has never been recommended to wash meat. And those courses are fairly notorious for being a bit over zealous to start with.

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:10:59

Liquid no not jif, a fresh lemon or lime. White vinegar is about 34p for a big bottle.

ouryve Sat 08-Feb-14 13:11:08

I don't particularly want to breath in the chlorine fumes from bleaching my entire kitchen every time I handle some meat. They're nasty.

Where are you buying your meat from OP?

I have never had a piece of meat with dirt on it.

ApocalypseThen Sat 08-Feb-14 13:11:28

Skin, slime, dirt and all?

Where on earth are you getting this meat? If its slimy, it's off. There's no dirt, what's wrong with skin?

squoosh Sat 08-Feb-14 13:11:28

I presume you cook the meat before eating it? In that case all germs will be killed off in the oven High temperatures tend to do that.

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:11:51

Are most people not washing their meat English?

I think that may be the reason?

Puttheshelvesup Sat 08-Feb-14 13:11:53

Germs from bare handed women will STILL BE KILLED THROUGH COOKING!

Hoppinggreen Sat 08-Feb-14 13:12:03

A special meat bowl? That's a new one as well.
I guess you do whatever you want to the food you eat but it all seems at bit unnecessary to me.

CoteDAzur Sat 08-Feb-14 13:12:19

"I am realy shocked. Maybe it is a culture thing"

So which culture is it where people "wash" meat with lemon & vinegar before cooking?

My multi-cultural extended family includes Turks, Americans, several European nationals, and two Africans. And I've never heard of such a practice.

squoosh Sat 08-Feb-14 13:12:32

The only time I've had lime soaked fish is when I've had ceviche.

Caitlin17 Sat 08-Feb-14 13:12:34

Goodness no. Never heard of such a thing.

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:12:47

Supermarket meat is a bit cleaner like I said.
The slimy bit on chickens, you may not know because you haven't looked properly especially when you take the skin off !

ThursdayLast Sat 08-Feb-14 13:13:13

It's a dead animal. I hardly think the butcher touching it is reason to get squeamish.
What slime and dirt is even on the meat you buy??

BTW I don't even wash my fruit and veg shockshockshock

mistermakersgloopyglue Sat 08-Feb-14 13:13:32

Seriously, if you go down the road of thinking about who has touched what between anywhere and your mouth, you would never touch or eat anything again.

Why would you need to put vinegar on meat when a high temperature will do a much much better job of the same thing.

It's completely illogical!

mattsmadmum Sat 08-Feb-14 13:13:32

Always wash meat and fish. I think its more common with ethnic minorities.

MrsSchadenfreude Sat 08-Feb-14 13:13:51

A special meat bowl? Is that like a penis beaker, but bigger, so that you can dunk the bollocks too?

ouryve Sat 08-Feb-14 13:14:05

I'm thinking the taste of lime, or vinegar, wouldn't exactly do wonders for haddock florentine. Blech.

The only slimy bit I've seen on chicken when the skin has been removed is the filmy bit (don't know what its called) it comes away when pulled, why would I need to wash it off?

ElvisJesusAndCocaCola Sat 08-Feb-14 13:14:13

There is no dirt !

Hoppinggreen Sat 08-Feb-14 13:14:40

I be just been to check my chicken for slime - can't find any.

mistermakersgloopyglue Sat 08-Feb-14 13:14:57

And yes I can categorically say I have never had a piece of raw meat with 'dirt' on it.

Seff Sat 08-Feb-14 13:15:02

I quite like chicken skin, nice and crispy...

limitedperiodonly Sat 08-Feb-14 13:15:10

I buy from a butchers. I've never noticed dirt or slime on the meat. If there was I'd use another butchers. And I like poultry skin and pork rind.

Puttheshelvesup Sat 08-Feb-14 13:15:18

What do you think will happen if you don't wash it? Genuine question, not trying to antagonise.

GingerMaman Sat 08-Feb-14 13:15:18

I clean it. In fact someone I know spends hours each weekend cleaning it! Someone else I know employs someone to clean the meat!

Misspixietrix Sat 08-Feb-14 13:15:36

Nope.

ouryve Sat 08-Feb-14 13:15:43

If you take the skin off chicken, then no one on Earth, other than you, is going to have touched the chicken, where the skin was previously attached.

Tippytoe Sat 08-Feb-14 13:15:44

Yes I clean my meat. It is definitely a cultural Caribbean thing.

I clean meat with vinegar or lemon and burn the hair off. If rushed for time I take the skin off altogether.

If meat is not cleaned/washed it has a raw smell which makes me feel ill.

I do not wash mince beef and instead use a lot of garlic seasoning.

LoveIsTheDrug Sat 08-Feb-14 13:15:55

Is this a sex question?

If not, no, I do not clean meat. That would be weird and I'm sure I read it actually increases the risk of contamination as most of the bugs are killed by cooking (so washing is unnecessary), washing raw meat splashes unseen contamination around the sink area and increases risk of food poisoning in the home. Yeuch

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:16:03

No ouryve it doesn't taste of vinegar or lime etc. You rinse it off!

Yes I have a large bowl which is specifically what I use to wash and season my meat.

Does that mean you don't roast chickens whole then op if you don't like 'the slimy bit'

I will admit to having washed chickens but that was a production line of about sixteen of them a time having just plucked and gutted them. The place was then bleached.

I don't wash meat, fish or fruit or veg and I'm a picture of health. If I'm cooking beef or salmon, I'll cut slivers of raw meat/fish off and eat them.

Thumbwitch Sat 08-Feb-14 13:16:51

I always wash fish, to try and get rid of any of the antibiotic residue in the ice that it's kept on, and the sliminess that it develops. Can't bear slimy.
I also wash turkey steaks for similar reasons (don't do chicken).
Don't wash red meat as a rule, though.
White English person here, but I do have a degree in Food Science and that maybe makes me a little more wary...

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:17:02

You bleach your sink , it takes five minutes. I have never had food poisoning.

Hoppinggreen Sat 08-Feb-14 13:17:22

Off to text a couple of Jamaican friends to see if they do it.

Thetallesttower Sat 08-Feb-14 13:17:45

My IL's (not English) do this, they often soak meat in water and vinegar or wine before cooking, it starts the cooking process and in the case of very bloody meats like lamb changes the flavour somewhat. Not quite the same as a marinade but similar.

I do sometimes wash chickens and similar when they come of the the packaging, they look a bit slimey, same with fish. I do take care not to splash the meat/water everywhere for hygiene purposes.

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:17:49

If I make a whole chicken I still wash the outside and inside.

Honeysweet Sat 08-Feb-14 13:18:02

I used to. I dont anymore. Figured that everything is so clean nowadays that I dont need to.
Am willing to be persuaded or proved that I am wrong though.

Follyfoot Sat 08-Feb-14 13:18:24

I really dont get washing meat. What does it achieve? I cant see it makes it any cleaner unless you believe that bacteria would only be on the outside surface of meat (which of course it wouldnt be). And why would you be bothered about washing blood off? There's blood inside the flesh of the meat too.

Tippytoe Sat 08-Feb-14 13:18:42

Cote It is part of the Caribbean culture to clean meat thoroughly before cooking. My dm and every family member/friend does this.

We also marinate our meat for several hours or even overnight so the flavour sinks in.

Foxsticks Sat 08-Feb-14 13:18:45

www.nhs.uk/Livewell/homehygiene/Pages/Foodhygiene.asp

No we never wash meat, it's not recommended anymore. My MIL does though, it always gives me the heebie jeebies thinking of all the microscopic salmonella ridden water droplets being sprayed all over the kitchen when she sticks a chicken under the tap. We are all English so maybe it's a generation thing too?

susiedaisy Sat 08-Feb-14 13:19:11

Yes some meats I do, fish I rinse and some bacon if it's got a lot of salty liquid in the packet. Also a whole chicken I some sometimes rinse off. Always wash all fruit n veg

Fairylea Sat 08-Feb-14 13:19:44

<puts professional hat on>

I've worked as a restaurant manager for many years and have numerous food hygiene certificates and whatever else.

If you wash meat you're at risk of spreading bacteria around your work surfaces and kitchen. Meat is packaged in a protective environment to a high standard of food hygiene. Also when you cook the meat you are more or less guaranteed to kill anything bacteria wise that might be left. You really, really shouldn't wash meat. Totally unnecessary and quite frankly dangerous. We'd never do it at work.

Fruit and vegetables need washing carefully. They are regularly sprayed with pesticides and even though washed before sold to the shop they are often put out loose and handled by lots of people who may or may not have washed their hands!

In a professional kitchen we are told to wash salad with a special anti bacterial solution as the leaves in lettuce can really harbour pesticides and other grot that can make you very ill indeed.

The only food poisoning I have ever had was from lettuce I had at home which my dh didn't wash. I have never been so ill in my life.

bluesbaby Sat 08-Feb-14 13:19:50

Lemon will begin to cook the meat, so you really shouldn't do that unless the recipe calls for it... I'm not sure about vinegar but it may have a similar effect.

I wash blood clots off my meat but try not to have it dripping wet.

Never ever heard of anyone doing this before!

Puttheshelvesup Sat 08-Feb-14 13:19:57

To all meat washers, what are you afraid of happening if you consumed meat that was not washed prior to cooking? And do you still eat meat when you go out for dinner where it is againd FS regulations?

Tippytoe Sat 08-Feb-14 13:20:23

Hopping I would be surprised if they don't.

WorraLiberty Sat 08-Feb-14 13:20:31

My family are Irish and none of them wash meat.

Why would you wash blood off of meat when there's so much blood in the meat??

As others have said, cooking properly means it's unnecessary.

chocolatesolveseverything Sat 08-Feb-14 13:21:03

Nope, cooking meat kills off bacteria. Can't for the life of me see what good washing it first world do, unless it was fresh from a farm and had so.e feathers, etc stuck to it.

squoosh Sat 08-Feb-14 13:21:03

That's good enough for me Fairylea!

whatever5 Sat 08-Feb-14 13:22:09

I suppose that people traditionally washed meat to get rid of feathers etc Not sure why some people still do it though as it must spread bacteria everywhere.

chemenger Sat 08-Feb-14 13:22:17

I regularly skin and bone out chicken and it is not slimy. Bought from supermarkets, butchers, farmers markets, not slimy, not dirty. There is some sort of connective tissue between the skin and the flesh but that is in no way dirty or germ ridden, it's been sealed up inside a chicken, if it had germs in it so would the rest of the flesh and they would not be removed with a quick rinse. I'm not English, thanks, I'm Scottish, but that is another issue smile.

I don't use bleach in the kitchen, ever, because I hate the smell. I can't recall ever having food poisoning (am 50+) and my children in their 29 years of life have had one bout of D&V between them. My mother was a cooking teacher and definitely never washed meat.

Misspixietrix Sat 08-Feb-14 13:22:43

Worra also there's the issue of black pudding too! smile

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:23:26

I'm not convinced.

Caitlin17 Sat 08-Feb-14 13:23:32

I don't wash fruit or veg either unless it actually had earth on it.

Re blood I take the view if you're casseroling or stewing red meat the blood enriches the sauce.

The only exception if it's game which I've plucked and cleaned myself I would run water through the cleaned carcase but that's because you sometimes get food the bird has eaten in its crop and I'd want to make sure I'd got rid of it.

stooshe Sat 08-Feb-14 13:24:09

I wash the meat to get rid of the rawness. It's not a cultural thing in Britain (amongst the long time English, especially). That is why I do not really eat from "English" people. Food looks pretty on the plate, but the prep is not up to scratch. make of that what you will.

LovelyJubblies Sat 08-Feb-14 13:24:15

Ive never washed meat before.
From pack to pot is how I cook.
My oh is a butcher so I know hes got no 'dirt' on him!
I vary rarely wash and fruit or vegies either.

Honeysweet Sat 08-Feb-14 13:24:29

Fairylea. re fruit and veg.
I gave up washing that too. My reason was because,even if there were or are insecticides, they would be right through the fruit?
Am willing to be persuaded that I am wrong on that too.
Glad I have got it right about the meat!

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:24:36

I am really shocked by some of these answers. grin

squoosh Sat 08-Feb-14 13:25:15

That's funny stooshe, I tend to cook meant to get rid of the rawness.

Seff Sat 08-Feb-14 13:25:18

Washing gets rid of the rawness? I thought cooking it did that. Washed meat is still raw until it is cooked.

ApocalypseThen Sat 08-Feb-14 13:25:27

Well I'm not English and you'd never eat my cooking. How does washing remove rawness?

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:25:55

You are not right about the meat.
Buy a bag of cheap lemons or a bottle of vinegar from the supermarket and try it!!

squoosh Sat 08-Feb-14 13:27:05

Why would anyone want to dry washing their meat with lemon and vinegar when there's no need. I certainly can't imagine it will enhance the flavour.

Seff Sat 08-Feb-14 13:27:33

Washing it to change the flavour is different to washing it because it's dirty. Which are we discussing here?

I don't wash meat, fruit or veg, my mum used to wash a whole chicken before roasting it no idea why. I have mad it to 45 and both my kids have managed to become healthy teenagers.

chemenger Sat 08-Feb-14 13:28:02

Why should we try it, nobody who does not already do it sees any point in it and nobody who does do it has offered any evidence to suggest it is a good thing?

theplanets Sat 08-Feb-14 13:28:16

I saw this topic with interest. Both my parents rinse meat under the cold tap; things such as chicken wings or a pack of chicken breasts. Whole birds or cuts of meat, depending on the situation. So from seeing things prepped this way, I will think about running meat under the cold tap too. I think it's to rinse off any grit or dirt it may have picked up when being processed or as Cleopatois said feathers too. It makes sense to me. You can shake the water off or use kitchen towel to soak up excess water before cooking. You don't know what might have stuck to the meat in the processing of it, and although sites may be more health and safety these days, means you don't get a feather in your dish. For the same reason - grit, I was taught to rinse rice before cooking. Amazes me some people just put it straight to cook.

givemushypeasachance - I remember a chicken or turkey last Christmas which said the same on the packaging. For that one, it had been 'pre'basted' - water plus something else injected under the skin or soaked in so that the bird was moist and apparently didn't need basting. Clever in a way but don't get me started about how I don't like food being 'tampered' with like that for convenience or what looks like convenience and call me a cynic but also to make the meat heavier for profit.

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:28:17

How many people handled your meat before it got to you?
Chicken especially has a 'fresh' smell.

Methe Sat 08-Feb-14 13:28:25

What a waste of time!

Caitlin17 Sat 08-Feb-14 13:29:19

Misspixie agree re black pudding

OP, yes I'm shocked too but not for the same reason. I'm 54 and an enthusiastic cook. Never had, nor given anyone else, food poisoning.

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:29:21

Theplanets good answer.

Do people really not wash their rice either grin

ThursdayLast Sat 08-Feb-14 13:30:00

Who cares how many people handled it??
When you cook it, the heat kills any bacteria.

Tippytoe Sat 08-Feb-14 13:30:06

When meat has been washed and cleaned it is obviously still raw meat but it does not smell raw.

I remember eating turkey at a work Christmas meal and it had obviously not been cleaned due to the repulsive raw smell the fact it was very lightly seasoned I.e. salt/pepper did not help. I could not eat it.

Seff Sat 08-Feb-14 13:30:18

The only time I've had food poisoning is when I left chicken out of the fridge too long. No amount of washing would have prevented that, considering cooking it for a few hours to a high temperature didn't.

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:30:41

I would never eat black pudding that is just vile.
I don't think it is really about the blood though, I think it's the bacteria, who has touched your chicken, what has it been exposed to etc.

Cleaning it removes the germs before you season it, giving you piece of mind.

It also removes the raw taste from chicken and fish.

Thetallesttower Sat 08-Feb-14 13:30:50

Cleopatois how do you actually wash the meat? Do you leave it to soak for a bit with water/vinegar, or just briefly wash it in a water/vinegar/lemon solution? Do you then dry it?

I wonder if what you are doing is similar to what my IL's do which is leave meat sitting in water/plus acid solution for a small while and then cook it. It does change the flavour, I do know what people mean by 'less raw'- it tastes less bloody/alters the flavour.

rockybalboa Sat 08-Feb-14 13:31:12

Washing meat just sounds wrong. Washing it to get rid of the rawness is just nonsensical. How does that make it any less raw? Cooking makes meat now raw. Never washed a piece of meat and not about to start!!

ThursdayLast Sat 08-Feb-14 13:31:19

Cooking it removes bacteria. And rawness.

Fairylea Sat 08-Feb-14 13:31:33

I seriously doubt vinegar has any true antibacterial properties when it comes to washing meat otherwise we'd be using it to rinse salad with (as per my previous post) as surely it would be much cheaper from a restaurant point of view.

The most important think when it comes to meat safety is cooking it hot enough and for long enough. If you want to be super cautious then nothing should be rare, everything should be well done. However plenty of people make a calculated risk choice and prefer rare... nowadays it's becoming more popular to cook pork more on the rarer side as meat standards are now so high the risk of catching anything from a slightly undercooked joint brought from a UK source is extremely low.

(Personally I prefer everything cooked until well done anyway).

Without outing myself I used to work for two different major chains or restaurants.... same rules all over everywhere.

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:31:40

So you don't care if people have been touching your meat, its been soaking in its own juices and bacteria and then you fling it straight in the oven or pan.

Methe Sat 08-Feb-14 13:31:43

It's the cooking that removes the raw taste.

Fairylea Sat 08-Feb-14 13:32:03

Thing, not think.

squoosh Sat 08-Feb-14 13:32:16

Cooking removes the raw taste. ONLY cooking.

I've never seen Delia/Jamie/Gordon or anyone else wash their meat.

limitedperiodonly Sat 08-Feb-14 13:32:21

Yes, black pudding Mmm. And it's not just a British thing. They're keen on it in Spain and Italy and probably other places.

My MIL makes jugged hare which she thickens with its blood. It's very nice.

She's even made it with road kill.

Fresh road kill, mind. Not something that had suffered such a going over that she had to scrape it off the road.

ThursdayLast Sat 08-Feb-14 13:32:29

Nope. Don't care at all Cleo grin

CoteDAzur Sat 08-Feb-14 13:32:51

" I think it's the bacteria, who has touched your chicken"

So? You cook it.

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:32:52

I think it is definately a cultural thing then because the Caribbean people on this thread have said that they do wash their meat and its the English/Scottish 'white' people who do not.

WWOOWW Sat 08-Feb-14 13:33:00

All my caribbean work colleagues wash meat before we cook it and sometimes burn off little hairs on the stove too (we cook at work).

Episode Sat 08-Feb-14 13:33:14

I have NEVER seen a Carribean, African or Asian person prepare meat without cleaning it.

It is definitely a cultural thing. Growing up and seeing Caucasian friends parents prepare meat was one of those OMG moments for me and most of my ethnic friends at one point or another.

There is a lot to be said for how ethnic minorities buy their meat though! Quite often we go to outdoor or market based butchers and 20 years ago that would have been the only way we bought meat.

There is no way I would consider putting anything straight from the counter into a pot without cleaning it after seeing numerous flies and juices from other meats fly all over it and there is a huge difference between that and packet based meat.

Seff Sat 08-Feb-14 13:33:19

By definition, raw meat is meat that has not been cooked. You can do whatever you want to it, but until it is cooked, it is still raw. Once it is cooked, it no longer tastes raw, because it isn't raw!

Oldraver Sat 08-Feb-14 13:33:21

There is no slime or dirt in the meat I buy so therefore NO reason for it to be washed.

As for the 'blood it sits in' that get thrown in the pan as well, where the heck do you think this blood has come from and what are the juicy bits of the meat ? the blood from the muscle fibre.

Onefewernow Sat 08-Feb-14 13:33:38

Never. The cooking of it raises the temperature so that any bacteria are killed anyway.

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:33:52

Jamie Oliver's food hygeine is disgusting he is not a good example . He's always licking his fingers and poking around.

Tippytoe Sat 08-Feb-14 13:34:05

Those of you who do not wash and clean your meat- do you not notice a raw smell when it is in the oven or even on your plate?

ApocalypseThen Sat 08-Feb-14 13:34:08

So you don't care if people have been touching your meat, its been soaking in its own juices and bacteria and then you fling it straight in the oven or pan.

Well yeah. I don't know or care how many people have handled the meat. I buy from reputable places, store and cook it properly. If it was slimy, I wouldn't chance it. No food poisoning ever.

chemenger Sat 08-Feb-14 13:34:28

No, I can honestly say I don't care, Cleo and my life is easier for it. I know germs are killed more effectively by heat than any chemical that I would wish to be eating residue of in my food.

stooshe Sat 08-Feb-14 13:35:09

Squoosh, I mean that RAAAAW taste and smell. No washing and barely any seasoning...no amount of cooking can get rid of it, trust me.
It's nothing to do with with enhancing the flavour. Perhaps there is a reason,after all why British food is looked down upon. No care is taken. You sound intelligent, but I've seen the most intelligent "Brits" get too defensive about this subject. Then people wonder why "foreign" food seems to be more popular over here than "indigenous" food.
Most of the world's good cuisine evolved by taking something and using tricks to turn it into something else. Not a lot of that can evolve by "opening pack and chucking it in the pan", can it?
But thank you for your sarcasm. It's nearly up to my standards. (your cooking won't reach mine, though).

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:35:09

WOOOOW on come dine with me one time the voice over guy was laughing at the way the caribbean girl was burning the hairs off the chicken wings!! Like it was something so abnormal.

squoosh Sat 08-Feb-14 13:35:14

No tippytoe, because it isn't raw after coming out of the oven!

JerseySpud Sat 08-Feb-14 13:35:33

Bugger that don't have time to mess about with the meat, just get it cooked.

Thetallesttower Sat 08-Feb-14 13:35:36

No, if you marinade meat in lemon juice, soy sauce or whatever, it tastes a bit different, this is not vastly different from that.

The 'raw' taste does not refer to the meat being cooked or not, it is a taste that we obviously don't mind so much in the UK but a bit different than elsewhere in the world. I know what they mean by 'raw' tasting and just cooking say some lamb without soaking it a bit first makes it taste different than if you soaked it in water and wine for 15 min.

It's partly a taste thing, it's partly beliefs about hygiene which might not be so relevant now.

squoosh Sat 08-Feb-14 13:36:06

Oh stooshe run along a scrub your mince.

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:36:19

Episode thats a very good point about the butchers.

"Soaking in it's own juices?"

That must be the weirdest criticism of meat I've ever heard

ouryve Sat 08-Feb-14 13:37:15

I'm confused here.

One minute, "washing" meat or fish doesn't change the flavour because the vinegar or citrus juice is rinsed off.

The next, "washing" the meat gets rid of a "raw" flavour.

So, does it change the flavour, or doesn't it?

Marshy Sat 08-Feb-14 13:37:19

We have just received a specific reminder about this at work in connection with food hygiene procedures (health care setting) - no washing of raw meat or poultry.

Caitlin17 Sat 08-Feb-14 13:37:25

OP I've told this story before, but one night I took 4 cling film wrapped pheasants from the freezer to defrost over night. In the morning there were 3. Goodness only knows how but one of the cats had dragged one of them off to his bed. Pheasant still chilled, still in cling film.

I just thought it's going in oven at 200c it'll be fine. It was.

dinosaurporn Sat 08-Feb-14 13:37:36

Love the way the OP is stating her opinion as some sort of scientific fact.

And why post in AIBU if you're only interested in your own opinion?

ApocalypseThen Sat 08-Feb-14 13:37:39

Squoosh, I mean that RAAAAW taste and smell.

Do you mean the taste and smell of meat rather than raw? Also, I'm not British, but it's not something I've heard of anyone doing either.

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:37:42

Haven't you seen the bloodish liquid that collects in the pre packed chicken? PP

I don't wash meat and I very very rarely season it. No one has ever complained

Tippytoe Sat 08-Feb-14 13:38:06

Cleo I agree, the other day he poked his finger in gravy to taste it.

There are a number of TV chefs who I would not eat from if they were actually willing to cook for me, that is!

I watched Nigella cooking curry chicken and she took the chicken out of the packaging and put it straight into the pan shock

Methe Sat 08-Feb-14 13:38:52

Why eat meat if you don't like the taste of it?

Thumbwitch Sat 08-Feb-14 13:39:00

Oh just remembered - if I ever cook a whole fowl, usually duck or pheasant or something, I'll always wash out the insides, just in case there are any residual gut contents. Yes cooking might kill off the bacteria, but it won't remove the taint of poo.

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:39:48

Tippytoe grin

LilyBlossom14 Sat 08-Feb-14 13:40:15

It is firstly totally unnecessary and secondly all health and safety guidelines say you should not wash raw meat - you are just spreading bacteria round the sink, taps, surfaces -etc.

ThursdayLast Sat 08-Feb-14 13:40:35

I literally don't know what you posters mean when you say cooked meat tastes raw.
And stooshe, it's hardly surprising people get defensive about their cooking when people like you are so unnecessarily scathing!

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:40:36

Methe I love meat, but I like it to be clean as possible.
I season my meat as I like flavour and taste.

Some of you guys should try meat seasoning.

Thetallesttower Sat 08-Feb-14 13:40:43

Oyurve I think it depends how long you leave it in there and the concentration of the other stuff, my MIL might leave meat soaking in wine and water (or lemon juice) for quite a while. It slightly alters the texture of the meat but not to make it unrecognizable or vastly different.

I also think that episode makes a good point, if you are buying meat and poultry and fish from an outdoor market in a hot country, or indeed one where the meat is handled in less than extremely hygienic conditions, washing the meat makes more sense.

I am used to the taste of meat cooked immediately from the packet so it doesn't bother me, but I know my IL's and my husband notice it. I just choose to continue anyway, I can't be bothered to start washing meat really.

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:40:51

Give a twist to your sunday roast.

PseudoBadger Sat 08-Feb-14 13:42:14

So you don't care if people have been touching your meat, its been soaking in its own juices and bacteria and then you fling it straight in the oven or pan.

I f

Tippytoe Sat 08-Feb-14 13:43:02

Bliky How does your meat taste?

I assume it tastes bland without seasoning.

Oldraver Sat 08-Feb-14 13:43:04

The bloodish liquid you are squirming about is only what has seeped from the chicken...you are actually eating the bloodish liquid in the chicken breast but before it has leaked out, you do realise that dont you.

It isnt some other strange entity

stooshe Sat 08-Feb-14 13:43:57

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PseudoBadger Sat 08-Feb-14 13:44:09

So you don't care if people have been touching your meat, its been soaking in its own juices and bacteria and then you fling it straight in the oven or pan.

I couldn't give a shiny shit because I'm GOING TO COOK IT. And I'm a food safety professional. If I inspected a kitchen and they were washing meat I'd have serious concerns.

Scientific basis for this dubious practice please?

WorraLiberty Sat 08-Feb-14 13:44:43

Oh I love black pudding grin

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:44:56

Do you at least wash your fish?

Marshy Sat 08-Feb-14 13:45:28

Is there really such a difference in taste between cooked meat that has been washed and cooked meat that hasn't? I must have a very jaded palate because I'm sure I wouldn't be able to tell

squoosh Sat 08-Feb-14 13:45:31

Goodness me but the meat scrubbers are quite a rude bunch.

hickorychicken Sat 08-Feb-14 13:45:41

When defrosting chicken i rinse the slime off, i also rinse beef when putting it into a stew as i get this weird frothy stuff if not. Not joints though, just bang em in grin

WorraLiberty Sat 08-Feb-14 13:46:11

Exactly what PseudoBadger said.

OP, I'm beginning to worry that you're just not cooking your meat properly if you're worried about bacteria.

Not bland at all, it tastes of meat. I don't use salt unless I'm making bread and pepper is used when I feel its an ingredient that's needed.
I'll add garlic and rosemary to a lamb leg, or make mustard Yorkshire puddings for a joint of beef. I don't think that food needs to be seasoned all the time.

limitedperiodonly Sat 08-Feb-14 13:46:29

I don't care whether people wash their meat or not.

But I think us dirty mingers are being remarkably tolerant.

Maybe that's a cultural thing too...

PseudoBadger Sat 08-Feb-14 13:46:48

I also think that episode makes a good point, if you are buying meat and poultry and fish from an outdoor market in a hot country, or indeed one where the meat is handled in less than extremely hygienic conditions, washing the meat makes more sense.

It makes no sense. Cooking at the correct temp and for the correct time is the ultimate critical control point. Everything else is just pointless.

If it's destined to be eaten raw for example steak tartare, you would need to take other steps to ensure the meat is safe. None of which would include washing it.

Caitlin17 Sat 08-Feb-14 13:47:04

OP no I don't wash fish unless it was a whole fish given to me by an angler and I'd gutted and boned it.

givemushypeasachance Sat 08-Feb-14 13:47:16

When you google washing meat the very first page that comes up is 'Dangerous Food Safety Mistakes' from the US Department of Health. Number two is the NHS page on food hygiene linked above. Both are very clear that it's recommended you don't wash meat as doing so actually increases the risk of food poisoning.

If the meat has been butchered in a protective environment with everyone in white coats and gloves and hairnets following hygiene standards significantly higher than most peoples' kitchens then you wrestling around with a chicken or a turkey in the sink or moving it around from packaging to bowl to rinsing it to the roasting tin is far more likely to end up with the meat and half your kitchen contaminated that just going from packaging to tin.

You don't get food poisoning from not washing raw meat before you cook it. You get food poisoning from playing around with raw meat and spreading germs everywhere, or from not cooking the meat properly.

PseudoBadger Sat 08-Feb-14 13:48:14

Fish is different, but mainly for palatable reasons. Some of them do have slime (natural and indicates freshness) and scales which would be quite unpleasant to eat.

Viviennemary Sat 08-Feb-14 13:48:15

I don't. But I knew a farmers wife who always did. So maybe there is a point to it. But what about cold meat for sandwiches. Surely you can't wash that. But I suppose that's cooked meat.

Lonecatwithkitten Sat 08-Feb-14 13:48:45

The only thing that gets rid of the potential type of bacteria on meat is cooking. The type of bacteria involved just love water and this helps to multiple, they are killed at 70 degrees.
Over 60 hours of public health, meat hygiene lectures and then working for the meat hygiene service taught me this.
Washing meat aerosolises these bacteria leading to a potential spread of up to 10 feet from the sink coating everything in fine bacterial mist, so realistically you need to bleach the whole kitchen if you wish to wash meat.
Historically meat was washed prior to refrigeration to remove a fine film from the surface of the meat that refrigeration prevents from forming.

ThursdayLast Sat 08-Feb-14 13:48:45

Just because I don't wash meat, doesn't mean I don't use seasoning!
Where did that correlation come from?!

LilyBlossom14 Sat 08-Feb-14 13:48:48

no way to washing fish - bonkers. And washing fish in lime juice will flipping cook it - bizarre.

salsmum Sat 08-Feb-14 13:48:50

Working with people from different cultural backgrounds I have observed that it does tend to be something done by other cultures....also doing extensive food hygiene training I've been told that as long as the meat is cooked to the right temperature and cooked thoroughly there is no need to clean before cooking.

I think when the meat washers say a raw taste they mean the taste of meat..... that hasn't been destroyed by an acid bath.

stooshe Sat 08-Feb-14 13:49:46

ApocoplypseThen. Yes, I mean that "smell" of meat. Now I know that people generally want to know if they are eating chicken, pork or beef. It's just the "freshness" (an oxymoron in this case, I know) is off putting. I find if I don't "prep", I could cook a piece of meat and I would still "taste the butchers", so to speak.

Marshy Sat 08-Feb-14 13:49:51

hickory the food hygiene inspector where I work would be very unhappy with you!

Oldraver Sat 08-Feb-14 13:49:53

OP where are you buying your meat ? decent meat shouldn't need a shedload of seasoning to make it palatable, the taste of the meat should come through (though I do admit some does add to it)

WorraLiberty Sat 08-Feb-14 13:50:01

What's the point in washing fish?

They've lived in water all their lives grin

ThursdayLast Sat 08-Feb-14 13:50:45

Stooshe
I have never experienced that. I like the smell of meat.

WorraLiberty Sat 08-Feb-14 13:51:43

I find if I don't "prep", I could cook a piece of meat and I would still "taste the butchers", so to speak.

stooshe shock

If you're tasting the butchers, you're talking about a different kind of meat to us....wink

Oldraver Sat 08-Feb-14 13:51:58

A relative told me how they worked at a restaurant and if the meat was iffy it would be washed in vinegar to cover the taste. Is this maybe why in hotter countries where the meat is left out it is more common to be washed ?

Worra grin also, have you tried black pudding with marmalade? its supposed to be heaven, I've never been brave enough but DH recommends it (but he likes marmite so he has no taste buds)

stooshe Sat 08-Feb-14 13:52:50

WorraLiberty. Lol! (but I wash fish).

NCISaddict Sat 08-Feb-14 13:53:49

Don't wash fish, meat and quite often don't wash fruit or veg unless it's come straight from the garden and is covered in mud, none of my family have ever had food poisoning, in fact they've never had a proper tummy bug.

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:54:10

Fish has a 'rawness' to it.

Wash with lemon or vinegar.

Also I do bleach my kitchen daily and throughly so I am not worried.

Chicken cooked with no seasoning vs chicken cooked with seasoning.. no comparison really.

squoosh Sat 08-Feb-14 13:54:25

I adore black pudding, but pairing it with marmalade sounds 'interesting'.

WorraLiberty Sat 08-Feb-14 13:54:40

Black pudding with marmalade?? Noooo shock envy

stooshe ask the butcher if he has a wife...Lol

Seff Sat 08-Feb-14 13:55:03

Isn't vinegar used for pickling things? Like a preservative?

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 13:55:17

Worral grin

squoosh Sat 08-Feb-14 13:55:38

Why do you think chicken that isn't soaked in vinegar isn't seasoned? hmm

I'm not sure you understand what seasoning actually is.

BobbyGentry Sat 08-Feb-14 13:56:14

I have been taught in the Far East to quickly throw meat into boiling water (flash) which brings a scuz off the meat, then you prep it as usual; I guess the benefit is taking off any artificial preservatives or bacteria. The worst culprits for tummy bugs here is from water and salads; don't even start on the melons smile

givemushypeasachance Sat 08-Feb-14 13:57:46

The enzymes in lime/lemon juice will 'cook' fish (like ceviche) but that's a separate way of preparing and eating it; you don't have to stick something acidic on fish if you're going to cook it anyway because it's the cooking that stops fish being raw. The clue is in the name of the process.

NCISaddict Sat 08-Feb-14 13:57:52

I also don't bleach my kitchen daily either so I'm obviously doomed. I eat lamb and beef rare too but still don't wash it. My parents never did either.

Caitlin17 Sat 08-Feb-14 13:58:13

Binkyand Worra, anything fruity or tangy is great with black pudding.

And black pudding and scallops is a marriage made in heaven. I cook those small really flavour some tomatoes down with balsamic vinegar to serve with black pudding and scallops

givemushypeasachance Sat 08-Feb-14 13:58:40

And while we're at it I've never pre-rinsed rice before cooking it in my life and I'm still alive.

MsAspreyDiamonds Sat 08-Feb-14 13:58:43

I clean it by putting it in a bowl of water & then changing the water several times until it's clear. The water starts off grimey with lots off residue and then it is completely clear.

Seff Sat 08-Feb-14 13:58:53

I never use bleach in my kitchen. Funnily enough, I use white vinegar to clean it!

NoelOfLorst Sat 08-Feb-14 13:59:19

No of course I don't.

That would be weird.

PinkLemons Sat 08-Feb-14 14:00:11

When I lived in the uk my neighbour was a butcher. I used to buy meat from him which had literally been butchered and stuck in bags for me. Chops and stuff had bits of gristle on them so I used to rinse those before cooking to get rid of the gristle bits. Never one have washed meat from the supermarket or butcher shop. It would never occur to me to!

Caitlin I am drooling, black pudding and scallops is my food heaven, (as long as the coral is kept on) and then tomatoes and balsamic.

Tailtwister Sat 08-Feb-14 14:00:39

I'd never heard of the idea of washing meat until I saw a friend of mine washing a chicken.

"Sitting in the bit of blood
Seriously? I take it you don't eat black pudding then.

Seff Sat 08-Feb-14 14:00:55

So if you were to wash some meat, then put it back in the fridge, would it need washing again before you cooked it? Being that only you have touched it?

(don't try this at home, folks!)

sonlypuppyfat Sat 08-Feb-14 14:01:18

Perhaps meat in foreign country's isn't as clean as our meat thats why they wash it?

Hoppinggreen Sat 08-Feb-14 14:02:28

From reading this I think that people from more traditionally hotter countries where freshness was an issue before refrigeration tend to wash meat. Washing meat in vinegar or lemon juice can restore a bit off freshness from meat that's a bit past it's best.
I imagine that's how it started and had now become ingrained in their culture rather than in any actual practical reasons.
I have also noticed that washing your meat seems to make you rather rude - an unforeseen side affect perhaps???

gamerchick Sat 08-Feb-14 14:02:36

Ovens are a million degrees OP. Washing meat is unnecessary and unhygienic and I'm disliking the racist undertone and superiority in your posts.

You don't have to 'educate' us. We know how to cook meat.

salsmum Sat 08-Feb-14 14:03:13

I have also witnessed a work colleague put a chicken and a joint of beef into the same bowl to defrost shock and another lady going to cook fresh frozen chicken straight from the freezer (thankfully I stopped her)..before she poisoned EVERYONE! sometimes traditions/cultures can be very dangerous. hmm

Dont wash meat veg fish its going to be cooked each to their own everyone as there own way of cooking look at the threads with the diff varations of dishes like corned beef harsh

Episode Sat 08-Feb-14 14:07:47

Lol at as clean as here! Do you actually know where most of your meat comes from?

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 14:08:11

Gamer chick.. if that's what you have wrongly picked up then its from your own feelings not mine.

Nothing to do with COOKING..this is about prep.

Goldencity1 Sat 08-Feb-14 14:08:13

Blimey! Every day is a school day! Perhaps I should have been scrubbing meat for the last 55 years... off to check.... here or here

No, thought so, no need to wash meat at all. In fact washing meat actually spreads germs further.

I don't know any one who washes meat- including my French neighbours!

I actually like to smell meat as it cooks, and enjoy the taste of meat. I use lots of seasonings, herbs and spices as the recipe I'm doing needs.
I have no worries that the meat I buy may be dirty and if I found it to be [never have but whatever] slimy or smelly I would take it back as it would be OFF.
However, I am buying my meat from a reputable butchers or supermarket, either in the UK or France.....perhaps if I was buying in a country with poor hygene and sanitation I might think differently.

Episode Sat 08-Feb-14 14:08:32

@puppyfat

Oblomov Sat 08-Feb-14 14:08:46

shock
But, why? Why would you do this?
Rare for MN to truely shock me.
This is one if those times.

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 14:08:47

Hopping Green quite possibly in some cases.

Gruntfuttock Sat 08-Feb-14 14:10:46

I agree 100% with your post Hoppinggreen.

Oblomov Sat 08-Feb-14 14:11:18

But vinegar also cooks / tenderises meat. That's why marinades contain vinegar.

Beyond bizarre!

CoteDAzur Sat 08-Feb-14 14:12:15

Worra grin

Episode Sat 08-Feb-14 14:12:20

Quick question! Before the days of packaged meat so butchers, markets, street vendors etc, did you (or your parents) not even rinse the meat? Not necessarily for bacterial reasons but to remove grit etc?

No episode growing up we got a twice yearly delivery of meat from the butcher bagged up areadly chucked it in the massisve chest freezer then when defrosted went srtaifht into the pan or cassrole dish

I find washing meat odd

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 14:17:04

Episode noo because heat kills grit, bacteria and slime... :/

WingDefence Sat 08-Feb-14 14:17:18

Hoppinggreen grin

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 14:17:29

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Episode Sat 08-Feb-14 14:18:56

@Cleo hmm

SamU2 Sat 08-Feb-14 14:18:59

Never.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Sat 08-Feb-14 14:19:12

I have never washed meat and never will. Out the packet and into the oven/pan whichever. There is no dirt on meat.

I'm not sure what seasoning meat has got to do with anything. I use all sorts of seasoning when I cook.

I have you know cleo we didnt eat slime the butcher was a brill butcher who my mum stayed with for 25 odd years

Methe Sat 08-Feb-14 14:20:18

Cleo I think you would benefit from a new butcher.

gamerchick Sat 08-Feb-14 14:22:20

What's wrong.. touched a nerve?

Read back over your posts and replace the words because you're white to black and see how it comes across.. then give your head a wobble.

Then go back to washing your meat and he majority of us Will Just stick it in the oven as advised.

GlitzAndGiggles Sat 08-Feb-14 14:22:32

I'm English and have always given it a clean with water before cooking

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 14:23:25

I get my meat from a farm butcher, local high street butcher and supermarket.

wowfudge Sat 08-Feb-14 14:24:05

Can't believe this thread. Have never had 'slimy' meat - surely it is off if it is slimy? As for blood and having a raw smell/taste - well it's bloody raw before it's been cooked isn't it?

Surely, quite apart from being unhygienic and a waste of time, washing meat removes some of the flavour?

One of the most important parts of food hygiene is washing your hands when preparing food, not washing the food itself.

Cleopatois Sat 08-Feb-14 14:24:13

Gamer you haven't touched any nerve. I find you slightly amusing and I am sure my white mother would to.

yourlittlesecret Sat 08-Feb-14 14:24:20

I used to wash meat under the tap as I was brought up that way, until I found out how dangerous and unnecessary it was. I think there was a bit of a North South divide on this, but when I was younger it was before today's hygiene rules. Going back 30 years most meat came from local butchers and it would often have sawdust and other bits on it.
I haven't seen this in years though. Any slime that comes out, for example in bacon, is due to the use of sodium polyphosphates to bulk out cheap meat.

EBearhug Sat 08-Feb-14 14:27:56

Before the days of packaged meat so butchers, markets, street vendors etc, did you (or your parents) not even rinse the meat? Not necessarily for bacterial reasons but to remove grit etc?

Unless you dropped it on the ground, why would there be grit on it?

I would rinse a freshly plucked and drawn pheasant, and also burn off any residual feathery bits, but that's it.

Episode Sat 08-Feb-14 14:29:02

I don't understand why the concept of washing meat is odd. We wash everything else that comes in raw form so without some of the newer scientific knowledge, historically it seems (dare i say it) like the clean thing to do!

Obviously in some circumstances this is not relevant but how could you not if you bought it from a market for example?

Moving forward, you will find a lot of blood juice in the bottom of a packet of chicken thighs for example. Most people I know, know how to run a kitchen so have no issues with basic cleanliness and meat juices flying everywhere. How could you not at least rinse that away.

And even just a rinse makes the meat smell cleaner and fresher.

This thread is an shock moment for me actually!!!!

SooticaTheWitchesCat Sat 08-Feb-14 14:29:16

I haven't read all the posts but no, I don't wash meat.

Are you by any chance Jamaican? Only my friend is exactly the same as you, she thinks I am mad and I think she is mad - lol

GlitzAndGiggles Sat 08-Feb-14 14:29:25

I rinse it to get the blood off or it makes me gag then season it and leave it in fridge covered before cooking

Thetallesttower Sat 08-Feb-14 14:32:42

I don't know why washing meat has to be unhygienic though, if you use a similar method to marinading which people don't find to be unhygienic and has excellent health benefits especially if you grill the meat afterwards (i.e. the marinaded meat has much fewer carcinogens produced I think).

My MIL puts her meat chopped up in a bowl of water/wine/lemon or whatever, then pours it away some time later down the plughole, so more marinading than washing. Washing is bad if you use a tap and splash the meat around spreading the germs.

As for the food hygiene expert who reckons everything is killed off even in hot countries where there are markets for meat, have you ever been to one? Of course the bacteria on the meat is killed by cooking, but only a strange person wouldn't want to wash off the sawdust/grit/grime/flies/hair having landing on the meat. It's not all white hats and hair tied back and bleached counters out there! That's not relevant here and so washing is probably more of a risk and that's why I don't do it here (but don't begrudge my MIL doing it her way).

Steben Sat 08-Feb-14 14:33:00

Nope

I put that juice in the pan! That's what makes the gravy after all....

IrrelevantDiscourse Sat 08-Feb-14 14:34:27

Only skimmed thread but I have heard a food hygiene expert say the British habit of washing meat is responsible for a lot of cases of food poisoning. Not because there's a problem when you eat the meat, but because the washing sprays germs around the sink / food preparation area. If you wash meat, you have to disinfect the sink and the whole area afterwards.

So I don't wash meat. I do wash fish sometimes, but only to get loose scales off as I hate fish skin.

MollyHooper Sat 08-Feb-14 14:34:50

Cleo you know that the heat of the over will kill any bacteria if you are cooking your meat right?

A quick wash in a basin with some lemon and vinegar wouldn't make much difference in terms of removing/killing bacteria. It just doesn't make any sense, it's meat!

I've never had gritty meat in my life.

Throw wine away? WTF! You don't throw it away, you cook the meat in it. Just when you thought you've heard it all!

Thetallesttower Sat 08-Feb-14 14:36:13

EBearhug some places are quite dusty/sandy, this is not an issue in the UK. And- your meat may have been dropped on the floor, wiped and picked up again. That can happen anywhere though, I've seen it done in pretty much every restaurant and cafe I've worked in. I don't think I'd better start on food prep in restaurants though as that's so bad (on occasion) that I don't know how I eat out.

WorraLiberty Sat 08-Feb-14 14:41:30

caitlin I'm weird like that. I don't like fruit with savoury food blush

Episode Sat 08-Feb-14 14:42:27

Agreed @Thetall

ThePearShapedToad Sat 08-Feb-14 14:43:33

I don't know why everyone is making yuck noises about the op washing her meat

Some cultures do, some cultures don't

For what it's worth, lots of Islands in the Caribbean "wash / cook" their seafood in lime juice, as the lime actually cooks the fish without the need for heat (don't ask me the science behind it)

My grandmother used to wash her meat (chicken mainly) by rinsing under a running tap, but she was brought up in a 3rd world country and such practices were necessary. She has gradually slipped out of this habit since moving to the uk and being introduced to supermarkets as she feels she no longer needs to

Just because someone cooks something differently to you, doesn't make it wrong

Unless they're eating bacon sandwiches with brown sauce, when everyone knows it's meant to be with ketchup wink

Anonymousy Sat 08-Feb-14 14:44:36

Wash meat? Fucking bananas idea.

spidey66 Sat 08-Feb-14 14:44:51

No, never, it's never occurred to me. I might rinse some fruit and veg to get rid of any mud (baking potatoes/salad) but that's about all for fruit and veg. I've only had food poisoning once and I suspect that was from reheating poultry, not failing to wash my food.

Episode Sat 08-Feb-14 14:45:22

And yes! Have any of you actually been to a market in the UK not just abroad?

I dont understand how you think meat would have been sold 30/40/50 years agohmm

Pobblewhohasnotoes Sat 08-Feb-14 14:46:50

caitlin I'm weird like that. I don't like fruit with savoury food

Me neither! Sweet and savoury together is just so wrong. Fruits are for puddings not for casseroles. And don't even start me on ham and pineapple on a pizza or raisins in curry. Or even worse, coconut which is the food of the devil.

Carry on....

CoteDAzur Sat 08-Feb-14 14:47:18

I also quickly rinse especially chicken under tap for a few seconds, but that is to get rid of blood clots and bits of bone.

It is crazy to think that washing gets rid of bacteria or "rawness".

WorraLiberty Sat 08-Feb-14 14:48:40

Pobble I've picked pineapple off my pizza in the past and ate it for afters grin

CoteDAzur Sat 08-Feb-14 14:49:54

Pineapple on pizza is just wrong. I don't see DH the same since I realised that's his favourite pizza.

I could make up my own completely unscientific and unhygienic "must wash meat" rule or I could follow all the medical advice which says not to wash meat because it increases the risk of contamination.

Hmmm - which should I do?

SooticaTheWitchesCat Sat 08-Feb-14 14:52:39

Pineapple on pizza is good. So is banana smile

squoosh Sat 08-Feb-14 14:54:09

I like pineapple on pizza but it's something I only indulge in behind closed doors. I know it's wrong, but it tastes so good.

My mother used to put slices of banana on her homemade curry. That was many shades of madness. She said it was cooling hmm

MollyHooper Sat 08-Feb-14 14:55:17

Banana? shock

If it's ham and pineapple then what does banana go with?

<horrified>

wowfudge Sat 08-Feb-14 14:55:25

Using acid such as lemon or lime juice or vinegar on raw meat or fish doesn't cook it as such, it cures it which is not the same thing but does change the texture, etc. Lots of cooks on TV say it 'cooks' the food because they know folk are put off by the thought of eating meat and fish which isn't actually cooked.

Store meat and fish correctly and cook it properly and it is fine.

hickorychicken Sat 08-Feb-14 14:55:38

I had no idea it did this, shit. I have a food hygeine certificate too ffs blush
Im not going to lie though, tomorow when i defrost my chicken breast i will be rinsing the slime off. I cant not do it.

hickorychicken Sat 08-Feb-14 14:56:35

Ok, i dont think it gets rid of bacteria haha im not that silly.

SooticaTheWitchesCat Sat 08-Feb-14 14:56:43

If it's ham and pineapple then what does banana go with?

Tuna smile - yum!

takingthathometomomma Sat 08-Feb-14 14:57:28

I do. It's not even something I've ever thought about, meat just goes from the packet, to being washed with some lemon juice and water, to the pan. I thought everyone did!

takingthathometomomma Sat 08-Feb-14 14:58:40

Ah just noticed your name, OP. Might be a cultural thing after all as I'm guessing you and I have similar backgrounds!

MollyHooper Sat 08-Feb-14 14:58:53

Are you an alien pregnant Sootica? grin

SooticaTheWitchesCat Sat 08-Feb-14 15:00:08

Nope - just weird - lol

MollyHooper Sat 08-Feb-14 15:05:31

grin

Utterbollocks Sat 08-Feb-14 15:05:52

Non white, non British & don't wash meat.

In hot countries where meat & fish was/is bought from grotty markets full of flies I suppose it was a sensible practice to wash meat & it became habitual to do so. These practices have been passed down & some haven't adapted to modern ways which mean that meat washing is unnecessary.

Spicing & seasoning food was originally done to help preserve meat & take away the 'rotting' taste which was often present with poor quality meat in very hot, poor countries before refrigeration. Yes it tastes good, but the unadulterated flavours of well reared good quality meat can also taste amazing.

Acidic agents such as lemon & vinegar start to cook meat & can change the flavour & texture if left on meat, making it tough. With ceviche it's different.

Each to their own, but just because one persons palette has developed a certain way, doesn't mean you should criticise others. Your own ignorance to other cultures & ways means you also miss out.

Often the red juice in meat isn't blood, it's myoglobin. All part of the animal you are about to eat.

Wash if you must, I'll stick to buying great tasting meat, cook so it's no longer raw season to taste & enjoy!

EBearhug Sat 08-Feb-14 15:07:21

Using acid such as lemon or lime juice or vinegar on raw meat or fish doesn't cook it as such, it cures it which is not the same thing but does change the texture, etc. Lots of cooks on TV say it 'cooks' the food because they know folk are put off by the thought of eating meat and fish which isn't actually cooked.

The protein is denatured, which means the cells get disrupted some way. You can do it with acid (e.g. lemon or vinegar), salt (like curing bacon & so on), alcohol (marinades etc) or heat (normal cooking). You can see it if you do something like marinade chicken in lime juice - the chicken turns white in time, just like it does when you cook it. Same sort of thing happens in a ceviche. It's also why egg whites turn white rather than clear when cooked. (If you want to know more, you probably need to be a biochemist, which I'm clearly not.)

coolbeans Sat 08-Feb-14 15:07:34

Definitely a cultural habit. All the women (and men, come to that) in my West Indian family wash meat with water/lime juice/lemon. I grew up with it and do it automatically as well. Logically, it makes not the blindest bit of difference but it would be v. strange to chuck it in the pan as is. Although my DH is Southern French and his family washes meat as well. Maybe it's a habit from hot places in the world?

RinseyMinceySpider Sat 08-Feb-14 15:09:35

Put it in some wine and call it a marinade

SooticaTheWitchesCat Sat 08-Feb-14 15:10:08

My husband washes meat and he is Turkish so it could be a hot country thing.

Preciousbane Sat 08-Feb-14 15:13:29

I'm late to the meat feast, I'm an ethnic minority that doesn't wash meat.

I do wash rice as t gets lots of the starch off.

I'm just as worried about the amount of bleach your sloshing round your sink as well as teh micro globules of meat juice.

Kaekae Sat 08-Feb-14 15:15:31

I used to because my mum used to but then while watching Jamie Oliver on TV he advised not to wash meat so I don't anymore.

ADishBestEatenCold Sat 08-Feb-14 15:29:26

Loving this thread! grin

Cleopatois can I ask why you consider supermarket butcher meat to be 'cleaner' than independent butcher meat?
(Really do want to know, I've seen meat preparation in both and I had thought they were both bound by the same legislation).

Also, you say you wash your meat in vinegar (for example) and then rinse with water.

Presumably you wash your meat in neat vinegar (I'm presuming this because vinegar diluted with water wouldn't kill the 'bugs'), so what sort of water do you rinse it in.
Do you use bottled water to rinse it or does it actually have to be sterilised/boiled?
(I'm guessing not tap water, given that it's bacteria laden).

Borntorun25 Sat 08-Feb-14 15:29:27

Cleopatois I am going to try this! Have never washed meat before, and don't know anyone who does. We eat very little meat as I am ex veggie and still don't really like it much but will cook it occasionally for family. I HATE HATE HATE the smell from cooking meat and have to have kitchen windows wide open. Maybe the lemon juice/ vinegar thing which reduces the ' rawness', which I think I understand, will change the smell. Worth a try, anyway.
Not bothered about hygiene aspect though, never died yet!

Thetallesttower Sat 08-Feb-14 15:30:00

I love walking in nice spring/summer/autumn weather, but I have to be honest, I am not walking to work at the moment in these gales and storms. If you have to, you have to, but I saw my neighbour with her rain poncho struggling up the hill with her bike in the pouring rain the other day and I did think I don't envy her. Walking is nice in nice weather, it's not nice for months on end in the pouring rain. Also- do the walk, check it really is 15/20 min and not 20/25.

Thetallesttower Sat 08-Feb-14 15:30:37

Sorry wrong thread blush

phantomnamechanger Sat 08-Feb-14 15:45:54

OP, I am really puzzled about this. I have never seen the need to wash meat or discard the nasty blood/juices.

I do wash fruit and veg because of dirt and pesticides.

What about bread? If you buy that from an open air stall/market/not wrapped - are you supposed to wash that too because of who/what may have touched it? after all that won't be cooked to kill germs will it. What about cheese on those stalls at country fairs etc - big open to the air slabs of it - would you feel the need to wash that too? Genuine Q - why the need to wash meat but not bread, cheese etc?

MamaPain Sat 08-Feb-14 15:46:31

I'm going to assume that Cleo is Jamaican or at least from the Caribbean. I wash meat, always have, as my mum and nan did this. I luckily have a Jamaican husband who does the same.

As a side note I don't think I've ever had food poisoning or the DC, and I'm not forever bleaching my kitchen. I have quite a lax attitude to food hygiene overall though.

I think posters are confusing the OPs use of seasoning. The lemon and vinegar is not the seasoning and I don't think that she is just using salt and pepper, or what lots of people would know as seasoning. DHs entire family talk about seasoning meat it's with a mix of spices. Often this is premixed and just called seasoning. They would never eat just a piece of plain chicken without seasoning it with herbs and spices.

MollyHooper Sat 08-Feb-14 15:47:14

All that rain kinda relevant to the thread Thetall.

You could go outside and wash your meat in it.

Snowdown Sat 08-Feb-14 15:49:53

Think this might be the weirdest thing I've read on mumsnet - washing meat is a crazy thing to do - adding water, splashing bacteria all around your sink and what's more there is no way vinegar is going to save you if the meat is contaminated, I would not be happy with a surgeon washing their hands and instruments in vinegar before operating! If my meat was dirty or dodgy it would be going back to the shop or into the bin.
Vacuum packed meat does have an odour but you don't need to wash it, you open the packet, drain the blood and place it on a plate for at least 15min before you cook it, then it's fine.
Often I will dry a piece of steak, it helps develop a good dark caramelised crust.
It amazes me how people who eat meat can't deal with a bit of blood or think about the origins of their food, I just don't get it!

bicuriousgeorge Sat 08-Feb-14 17:43:34

"Example I went to get some lamb chops from the butchers and the woman used her bare hand to take the meat and put it into the bag."

You are eating animal flesh and you're worried about someone touching it with their bare hand!
Do you eat out at all? Because every single decent restaurant chef with not only have touched your raw meat but touched your cooked meat too with his bare hand.

bicuriousgeorge Sat 08-Feb-14 17:45:00

Also slashing bleach aroud your cooking/cleaning area in your kitchen is far far more dangerous than ever eating meat unwashed.

Crazy!

2rebecca Sat 08-Feb-14 17:50:03

I rinse it under the tap then dab with kitchen paper, I've seen an abbatoire.

ladypete Sat 08-Feb-14 18:10:08

I don't. I just cook it.

I agree it can be cultural. I know people from the carribean can be particularly cautious and wash their meat.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Sat 08-Feb-14 18:26:32

Just to let you all know I am cooking sausages and I did not wash them.

bronya Sat 08-Feb-14 18:27:35

The meat arrives at the butcher already skinned and as part of an animal. Then it's cut up further, so the 'outside' of that original carcass is cut off (as it's a bit dried) and becomes pet mince. Each cut that they sell has been produced on a clean block (where the top layer is scraped off every day and salted), with clean knives. Butchers and servers are continually washing their hands. Any germs that arrive on the meat after that, will die in the oven anyway. Meat in the UK is stored in the fridge or freezer which reduces the multiplication of bacteria anyway.

I have a butcher relative. We've often eaten stuff that wouldn't sell (too 'dark' in colour as getting old) and have never been ill as it is simply cooked through. You can tell when uncooked meat is 'off' as it smells.

I wonder.... If you hang your meat not in refrigerated conditions (friends of my parents used to hang pheasant in their shed....), then by the time it's ready to eat, it's crawling with maggots. Is the washing an old custom to wash those maggots (and further fly eggs) off? Modern meat is hung in conditions where this doesn't happen...

squoosh Sat 08-Feb-14 18:27:48

You are soon to shuffle off this mortal coil with such cavalier behaviour Pobble.

RinkyDinkyDoo Sat 08-Feb-14 18:30:05

Whole chickens get a good swilling out and rinsing under the cold water tap, anything else is just chucked into pan/oven dish/tray or under grill.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Sat 08-Feb-14 18:32:45

You are soon to shuffle off this mortal coil with such cavalier behaviour Pobble

I thought as much. It's not just me, it's DH and DS too. How we've survived until now I'll never know.

LurcioLovesFrankie Sat 08-Feb-14 18:58:52

Wow, the things you come across on Mumsnet. There are people who wash meat? confused Given the danger of then splashing raw meat juices all over your kitchen surfaces, how can I politely raise this in conversation with my friends so I can make sure that if any of them do it, I never, ever eat round their houses.

I did enjoy my unwashed, rare-side-of-medium rare steak at lunchtime.

TamerB Sat 08-Feb-14 19:01:50

I just cook it, never wash it.

hickorychicken Sat 08-Feb-14 19:10:39

Ive not read the whole thread, are we talking washing to kill bacteria? hmm
And does NOBODY else wash chicken slime? blush

EvenBetter Sat 08-Feb-14 19:32:08

To summarise his thread:
Meat washers: I can't believe people don't wash their meat! Amazing!

99%of everyone else: here's links to actual facts about why its a really bad idea.

Meat washers: I can't believe it though! Do you really not wash meat?

(I'm a vegetarian. Thankfully.)

Ethnic minority, from a hot country - I don't wash meat.

ThursdayLast Sat 08-Feb-14 19:44:07

gringrin EvenBetter

I thought this was another penisbeaker story grin
Incidentally I don't wash my meat

hickorychicken Sat 08-Feb-14 19:48:01

But WHY are people washing it blush

TamerB Sat 08-Feb-14 19:48:12

I don't get chicken slime.

I don't clean my meat, i just get straight down to itgrin, can't waste a good sausage

hickorychicken Sat 08-Feb-14 19:55:14

When i buy forzen chicken i defrost it on a plate and theres like a puddle of watery slime under it.

Joiningthegang Sat 08-Feb-14 19:57:01

Another non washer of meat, fish, fruit or veg

Oh the things you learn on mumsnet!

PrimalLass Sat 08-Feb-14 19:57:42

Jeez no. What will a wash under the tap do that high heat won't?

TamerB Sat 08-Feb-14 19:59:35

Maybe that explains it- I don't buy frozen chicken.

PrimalLass Sat 08-Feb-14 20:26:27

Not sure what people are buying that has slime and grit on it.

MiniSoksMakeHardWork Sat 08-Feb-14 20:30:18

No. Take it out of pack and put in oven. As advised (admittedly years ago) by a food hygiene course I did for work. Reduces the risk of spreading germs from splashing water.

CuntyBunty Sat 08-Feb-14 20:31:17

I wash my fanny in the shower every day.

CoteDAzur Sat 08-Feb-14 20:37:17

But do you wash it with vinegar, Cunty?

limitedperiodonly Sat 08-Feb-14 20:55:48

I'm going to assume that Cleo is Jamaican or at least from the Caribbean

And does that give this first time poster a free pass?

Her posts are tactless and would not be tolerated on MN for a single minute from someone saying that they found the cultural habits of a non-white person distasteful or unusual.

And so they shouldn't. But it cuts both ways.

Please feel free to come back to me, OP.

And I don't care that you've said you have a white mother. Because on the internet we can all do that, can't we?

CuntyBunty Sat 08-Feb-14 21:00:11

Yeah, then I put a bit of salt and pepper on it afterwards....

Methe Sat 08-Feb-14 21:00:57

Have you tried meat seasoning cunty?

coffeeinbed Sat 08-Feb-14 21:01:08

Hmmm.
To think I've eaten unwashed steak tartare.
What do I do now?

CoteDAzur Sat 08-Feb-14 21:03:00

Cunty, the question on everyone's mind is "Do you then marinate?"

gamerchick Sat 08-Feb-14 21:05:49

And stick it in the oven?

MarvellousMechanicalMouseOrgan Sat 08-Feb-14 21:12:47

I shampoo my meat.

FrostedButts Sat 08-Feb-14 21:13:37

re page 5, you don't rinse rice to get rid of grit, you rinse it so there is no rice flour or starch clinging to the outside of the grain so it doesn't become risotto. I would be shocked to find any foreign object in my rice barring the odd husk... which would float to the top while cooking anyway

ThursdayLast Sat 08-Feb-14 21:14:14

Cunty,
gringringrin

CuntyBunty Sat 08-Feb-14 21:16:16

It's when I've been "marinating" for a day or two, that I feel the need to clean my meat. (No toothpaste is going near my bum hole though).

Littleen Sat 08-Feb-14 21:19:27

No, I don't clean it. If the shop/factory etc. follow the hygiene rules and all other precautions, it shouldn't be necessary at all. Never heard of anyone washing meat actually.

winterhat Sat 08-Feb-14 21:21:26

I run it under the tap.

Goldencity1 Sat 08-Feb-14 21:23:14

Well we have had a lovely stew, English beef. Not washed, not slimy or smelly and no grit anywhere1

If you want to wash your meat, then carry on, it's up to you. Think it's daft, but it's a fee country...

WorraLiberty Sat 08-Feb-14 21:23:37

But what abut the slime,Cunty?

Do you rinse it under the tap or just rub it with a slice of lemon?

Fishandjam Sat 08-Feb-14 21:24:45

My mum used to rinse the cavity of a chicken under the tap, in case any of the gizzards had been inadvertently damaged during butchering - apparently any trace of bile etc would have ruined the bird. But she grew up in the 40s/50s where local butchers did the prep of your Sunday roast. Now that abbatoirs are more regulated, butchery is more precise, so it shouldn't be necessary. I certainly don't bother.

I have, on occasion, given meat (especially chicken) a pre-cook "rinse" in lemon juice and a little water and salt for a few minutes, before frying. It can help tighten the meat fibres and make it less likely to stick to the pan.

RunRabbit Sat 08-Feb-14 21:30:47

I do. Definitely cultural.

And my family's still alive from 'splashing bacteria' around.

No, but I don't bleach my sink either. A quick wipe with cleaning spray once in a blue moon.

CookieDoughKid Sat 08-Feb-14 21:41:51
firesidechat Sat 08-Feb-14 21:42:29

It has never even crossed my mind to wash meat.

Nobody I know washes their meat.

I've also never heard of this till I joined mn. (Lots of things were introduced to me through mn. Most of them just plain weird).

I do have a fairly robust approach to bacteria and germs though.

Very interested to know what meat washers do with mince.

takingthathometomomma Sat 08-Feb-14 21:42:33

Why are people getting all "You're so ridiculous for washing/not washing your meat"? (Delete as appropriate.)

It's clearly just cultural differences. Since when were so many MNers unable to comprehend cultural differences?

CookieDoughKid Sat 08-Feb-14 21:43:49

Incase you missed the quote in the link I provided previously:

"Lots of people think they should wash raw chicken, but there's no need," says food hygiene expert Adam Hardgrave. "Any germs on it will be killed if you cook it thoroughly. In fact, if you do wash chicken you could splash germs on to the sink, worktop, dishes or anything else nearby."

Pobblewhohasnotoes Sat 08-Feb-14 21:47:40

If your meat's covered in grit or slime then maybe you should go to a more reputable butchers.

CuntyBunty Sat 08-Feb-14 21:49:17

A good scrub with neat vinegar gets rid of the slime, Worra, then I tuck some lemon in for freshness.

hickorychicken Sat 08-Feb-14 21:52:28

Am i doing something wrong with my chicken? sad

napoleonsnose Sat 08-Feb-14 21:53:05

Nope. Never washed meat. All that splashy water is only going to spread bacteria around anyway. Heat will kill any nasties when you cook it. Lived to the ripe old age of 42 without washing meat too.

WorraLiberty Sat 08-Feb-14 21:59:10

That's the spirit vinegar Cunty!

OK, as much as I've never taken part in this meat washing madness

What's with all the people assuming the meat washers are splashing water and bacteria all over the place?

Do you all have like really high pressured taps or something? grin

hickorychicken Sat 08-Feb-14 22:01:09

Ive also never made anyone ill splashing my bacteria around.

Finefoot Sat 08-Feb-14 22:03:52

Well, I wash my fish, poultry and meat as part of the preparation. It goes in a bowl with cold water and vinegar/lemon juice. It doesn't splash everywhere, nor get on my work surfaces. I don't like tiny bits of bone and gristle, fish scales or feathers in my food.

RunRabbit Sat 08-Feb-14 22:05:28

Is the chicken slime transparent and filmy?
I get that when I buy skinless chicken.

HotCrossPun Sat 08-Feb-14 22:12:46

This would be quite a funny thread if it wasn't for the the sneery, racist undertones...

theplanets Sat 08-Feb-14 22:13:33

Sorry for slightly hijacking the thread again:
'FrostedButts Sat 08-Feb-14 21:13:37
re page 5, you don't rinse rice to get rid of grit, you rinse it so there is no rice flour or starch clinging to the outside of the grain so it doesn't become risotto. I would be shocked to find any foreign object in my rice barring the odd husk... which would float to the top while cooking anyway'

No that isn't why I rinse rice when I cook it. I think it's a little mean spirited to point out someone doing something ISN'T the reason they said they are doing it.

With regards to what you said in the post above FrostedButts, maybe it's dependent on the method people use to cook their rice e.g. if they are tipping excess water off after cooking it so they are 'rinsing starch off' like you said. I don't know though because use a rice cooker which is by far the easiest way to cook it IMO and like some other Members have said, you don't have to watch it and you can have it on 'Warm' so ready to eat 20mins after it's ready or it people eating at different times, an hour later [thumbsup]

hickorychicken Sat 08-Feb-14 22:15:15

Hmmm its kinda watery gloop rabbit, its not the quality of chicken is it? Ive never frozen chicken from a butchers so it may be totally different like that hmm

Iamavapernow Sat 08-Feb-14 22:54:09

People from hotter countries where freshness was harder to maintain wash meat. Washing meat in vinegar or lemon juice restores freshness from meat that is past it's best.

That's how it started and had now become ingrained in their culture rather than in any actual practical reasons.

I don't wash meat, or anything else for what it's worth. I brush off any small bits of soil from my mushrooms and that's about it.

FutTheShuckUp Sat 08-Feb-14 22:55:34

Is it wrong I thought this was going to be foreplay related?

SirChenjin Sat 08-Feb-14 23:01:10

I thought the same thing Fut - read about 3 pages before I had to accept that it really was about meat and the mad meat washing people

WorraLiberty Sat 08-Feb-14 23:04:13

Well I've left a bottle of white vinegar and half a lemon next to DH's side of the bed.

Make of that what you will....

HamletsSister Sat 08-Feb-14 23:04:17

Am I alone in clicking on this thinking it was a re-run of penisbeaker? Sorry if someone else beat me to the punch line.

HamletsSister Sat 08-Feb-14 23:04:52

Oops, sorry, just realised there are 15 pages and I am not alone.....

steff13 Sat 08-Feb-14 23:06:11

Well, I thought this topic was going to be a companion to the one the other day about washing your "hoo-ha," but no such luck.

I don't wash meat. If it makes any difference, I'm white and in the US.

If I'm going to sear steaks in the cast iron skillet in oil, I pat them dry first, but that's just so I don't have a repeat of the second degree burning incident I had the last time I didn't pat them dry. sad I get my meat, which is always organic, grass fed, free-range, etc., from either a butcher or my local supermarket. I have no idea who's touched it before I got it, and I don't much care. I will say that I have never witnessed either the butcher at the butcher shop or the one at the grocery store touch meat without gloves on.

WhereIsMyHat Sat 08-Feb-14 23:10:09

No because unless the meat is raw, the temperatures of over 100 degrees c will kill bacteria and I haven't got time to do pointless tasks like that. I have a life.

mousmous Sat 08-Feb-14 23:14:33

only if it is slimy, like it sometimes gets in plastic packaging.

ShoeWhore Sat 08-Feb-14 23:15:30

Nope never wash meat. Might pat it dry with kitchen roll before frying though.

eggsandwich Sat 08-Feb-14 23:18:08

I always use to was my meat before cooking it then I watched a programme that said you shouldn't do this as it spreads the bacteria around the meat so now I just cook it and am still alive and kicking.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Sat 08-Feb-14 23:21:24

I don't wash rice either, but that's because I use the 2 minutes in a microwave jobs. Lazy but perfect. I'm not good at cooking rice.

Daykin Sat 08-Feb-14 23:35:26

I'm Chinese, from HK. I have never washed meat and nor does anyone in my family. I have more hygiene certs than you can shake a stick at. I love black pudding and blue steak.

My BIL is from Jamaica - never seen him wash meat.

My ex-flatmate of 3 years was from Botswana. She has cooked me hundreds of meals of unwashed meat and the only time she has almost killed me was when she hit me with a bottle of shampoo when I was pissed and she thought I was a burglar.

Where does the not washing=not seasoning thing come from?

goldopals Sat 08-Feb-14 23:44:53

I am Australian and do not wash meat. I do not know anyone who does

coffeeinbed Sat 08-Feb-14 23:47:13

MIL does. She also bleaches everything that will stand still.

She never seasons anything.

FoxesRevenge Sat 08-Feb-14 23:50:41

Makes me laugh that some people squirm because there a bit of blood sat with it in the packaging. It's a hacked up animal, what do they expect. hmm

takingthathometomomma Sat 08-Feb-14 23:59:04

Foxes I repeat, it's not about squirming, it's a cultural thing.

hmm

NoLikeyNoLighty Sun 09-Feb-14 00:10:35

OK, not read all the replies (it's gone midnight and there's 15 pages (front and back. grin )
Can't be arsed to read them all.
I've read that it's unhygienic to wash meat, and can be more dangerous than not washing it. (You're splashing bacteria around off the uncooked meat by washing it!)
Nothing wrong with cooking it as it is. Washing/vingear/lemon dousing is just weird.

FoxesRevenge Sun 09-Feb-14 00:14:42

taking. I'm not talking about cultural preferences just merely commenting about people who squirm about blood on meat hmm - regardless of their culture.

Elderflowergranita Sun 09-Feb-14 00:18:06

Wrong, wrong, wrong to rinse meat. Unhygienic and well, wrong.

heinztomatosoupp Sun 09-Feb-14 00:19:54

I've just read the whole thread (took me fucking hours) and have one question which I am curious to know the answer to:

What does raw smell like?

Never in my life have I ever heard anyone utter the words 'that smells raw', how the hell can something smell raw?

Neverland2013 Sun 09-Feb-14 00:35:43

I can report that most Czechs & Slovaks living in the UK also wash their meat (did a little survey on a FB page which brings together Czech & Slovak mums living in the UK)! grin).

MiscellaneousAssortment Sun 09-Feb-14 01:57:36

Good lord, I can't get that riled about it!

Livingwithmymother Sun 09-Feb-14 02:22:42

All the Caribbean people I know (myself included) wash their meat.
Also the English people that have joined the Caribbean community wash their meat.
Looking at this, I've probably eaten some meat that hasn't been washed..
& I'm still alive

Also salt and pepper doesn't cut it as seasoning.

JapaneseMargaret Sun 09-Feb-14 04:09:45

The fact remains that if you've eaten meat in a restaurant, it almost certainly wasn't washed.

MarvellousMechanicalMouseOrgan Sun 09-Feb-14 08:16:45

When you talk about gristle, isn't that attached? So the washing is more than a soak and rinse, if you see what I mean? Kind of a meat manicure?

I'm genuinely asking, by the way, I get all my meat from the supermarket so it's all in packets.

fairnotfair Sun 09-Feb-14 09:17:36

I scrub mine with Cillit Bang.

Misspixietrix Sun 09-Feb-14 09:25:13

You scrub your Chicken with Cillit Bang fair confused grin.

LurcioLovesFrankie Sun 09-Feb-14 09:58:58

Better safe than sorry, fair. grin

formerbabe Sun 09-Feb-14 10:03:15

I don't wash meat because I don't want water mixed with raw meat juices splashing round my sink.

Slubberdegullion Sun 09-Feb-14 11:39:22

Maybe the OP's butcher is Billy William the Third?

This thread is very funty.

marryinhaste Sun 09-Feb-14 11:54:23

My Jamaican exH always used to go on about my roast chicken being "raw" because I hadn't washed it in vinegar first.

This is the same man who would leave any chicken he cooked on the stove top for days until I threw it out - fridges were not good for food apparently. He also gave me food poisoning by peeling some potatoes and leaving them in cold water for about 4 days before cooking them - I was ill already at the time so didn't notice he'd done it until after eating.

Now he's an ex so I can enjoy my raw chicken in peace.

Chwaraeteg Sun 09-Feb-14 12:11:15

I've never even heard about this. Wouldn't vinegar ruin the taste of the meat?

formerbabe Sun 09-Feb-14 12:21:33

It is a cultural thing...my Caribbean friend always washes meat and thinks its odd not to.

I don't think there is any point..the heat during cooking will kill more germs/bacteria than a rinse with water/vinegar will.

AmberLeaf Sun 09-Feb-14 12:31:44

This is definitely a cultural thing, Im a bit surprised at some who seem unable to accept cultural differences and are instead making them out to be 'wrong' and sneering/laughing at them.

Every Jamaican/caribbean person I have ever known washes meat in this way. They don't seem to have an issue with food poisoning either.

I do it. Also seasoning too [overnight, not just for 15 mins before you cook it], NOT salt and pepper, which you hear TV chefs class as seasoning.

People can scoff all they like, but Jamaican cooked meat tastes better/more flavoursome than traditionally cooked english food IMO and many of the big chefs try to emulate that style of cooking, often unsuccessfully though, I expect because they dont follow the full prep and just play about a bit with seasonings.

AmberLeaf Sun 09-Feb-14 12:33:56

Someone said about what the meat tastes like if you have to load with seasoning, it isn't just about taste, proper marinading doesn't just flavour. It also tenderises the meat.

thornrose Sun 09-Feb-14 12:46:51

All my Jamaican in-laws and friends wash their meat, it's their prerogative. I personally don't.

A few years ago they must have done some sort of public campaign about this issue. A man (African, it's relevant!) knocked on my door. He had leaflets in his hand and asked me some hygiene questions, one was "do I wash my chicken?" I lied and said yes because I thought he would judge me if I didn't blush

He then gave me a lecture about the dangers of washing chicken and that I would end up spreading far more germs around my kitchen before handing me a leaflet! grin

ummlilia Sun 09-Feb-14 12:49:03

no, it spreads bacteria around the kitchen

gamerchick Sun 09-Feb-14 12:53:37

The only significant sneering I've seen in this thread are against those who don't wash meat.

Methe Sun 09-Feb-14 12:54:35

My lovely Jamaican friends makes awesome food but it is so 'seasoned' it doesn't taste like meat at all, it could be lamb, goat or beef and I'd struggle to tell the difference.

Decent meat doesn't need seasoning to make it nice. Nor does it need to be washed.

hickorychicken Sun 09-Feb-14 12:55:27

I rinse chicken but thats my personal preference, it makes more sense to not wash it but i cant not, so no sneering here smile

Seff Sun 09-Feb-14 13:00:32

It was never really sorted, but it seems that when the meat washers are talking about things tasting/smelling "raw" that they don't actually mean "raw", as in not cooked. I think it's the "meaty" smell that's the problem. Hence why, as we're discussing Caribbean food, it gets heavily seasoned. Which will obviously change the taste.

Happy to be corrected!

GlitzAndGiggles Sun 09-Feb-14 13:00:57

I think it's a waste if meat isn't seasoned properly and it defo tastes better when left to marinade overnight you can really taste the difference in flavour how long it's been left to marinade

FoxesRevenge Sun 09-Feb-14 13:02:24

How can you taste the meat if it is so highly seasoned or marinated. Doesn't the meat itself just become a texture as the flavour is actually the seasoning.

FoxesRevenge Sun 09-Feb-14 13:03:15

Decent meat doesn't need seasoning to make it nice

^^ this

Salmotrutta Sun 09-Feb-14 13:08:58

I never wash meat.

Washing meat, if not done very carefully, must result in fine droplets of bacteria laden water being spread around.

And you'd have to decontaminate your whole kitchen to get them all.

But, Presumably the meat-washers on here are doing this under stringent controlled conditions or they wouldn't have survived...

Likewise the non-washing people are still alive which is testament to the fact that cooking kills bacteria.

I don't believe in giving myself yet another chore grin

AmberLeaf Sun 09-Feb-14 13:09:09

Easy to taste the meat.

Good seasoning enhances the taste of the meat.

Not everyone has access to 'decent' meat, or at least they didn't always.
Using herbs and spices to flavour meat comes from days when caribbean people only got the scraps and unwanted parts to cook with, good seasoning can make cheaper meat into a flavoursome meal. Also the issue of hot countries and using marinading as a way of preserving fresh meat.

ouryve Sun 09-Feb-14 13:10:17

I have always washed rice since finding a huge great rice moth in a bowl of boil in the bag rice.

also no longer buy the boil in the bag stuff, funnily enough.

AmberLeaf Sun 09-Feb-14 13:11:03

I don't believe people just cook meat with no seasoning at all. Not even salt, pepper and herbs?

Some just use more than others, that isn't wrong just because you are happy not to do it.

Salmotrutta Sun 09-Feb-14 13:11:07

Ewww.

Mind you a moth would be extra protein.

thornrose Sun 09-Feb-14 13:16:53

I think some people get used to highly seasoned food and find it difficult to eat food that tastes "plain" to them. A roast chicken without seasoning is lovely to me but not to someone who is used to seasoned chicken.

Cooking shows always refer to seasoning as salt and pepper. It has a very different meaning in Caribbean cooking.

I have a friend who will eat non spicy food but she has to put pepper sauce on it. (I've stopped being offended!)

poorincashrichinlove Sun 09-Feb-14 13:34:34

Is this the new penis beaker?

WitchWay Sun 09-Feb-14 13:43:54

I dry meat with kitchen roll if it's wet on the surface & I'm not casseroling it. Otherwise it goes straight in the pan or onto the chopping board for chopping. Any bloody juices in the wrappings are given to the lucky cats, along with any sinewy trimmings grin

wowfudge Sun 09-Feb-14 13:54:18

So on top of the cost of meat, there are some people who also spend money on vinegar, limes, lemons for washing it, extra kitchen roll for drying it and bleach for cleaning the kitchen sink afterwards. I am saving a fortune by not washing meat!

MegaClutterSlut Sun 09-Feb-14 14:02:41

No I do not. Only meat I used to wash was a whole chicken until I saw somewhere that it's safer not to wash it as the bacteria goes everywhere but didn't realise people washed other meats too. I just bung it in!

ADishBestEatenCold Sun 09-Feb-14 14:11:22

Did Cleopatois ever come back?

I really did want to know why Butcher's Shop meat was dirtier than Supermarket meat.

Chunderella Sun 09-Feb-14 14:30:47

Meat that has been marinaded is delicious, as is spicy meat. But there's no need to fuck with a roast. If you're doing it right and you get decent quality meat, it should taste fantastic without anything more than salt, pepper and a few herbs if desired. You do lose the ability to taste flavours like that if you're used to everything being spicy though, it happened to me a few years back when I went through my everything needs chillies on it phase. Also if you have poorer quality meat, of course it's better to spice the shit out of it. Anything that covers the meat taste improves it- again, I have taken this approach myself.

You don't need to wash meat, and the only thing that will make meat not raw is heat. Soaking it in vinegar, lemon etc makes it taste different but it does not make it unraw. They are two very different things. I can see that there are many times and places in human history where it would be safer and more hygienic to prepare meat like this, but the modern west is not one of them and it is in fact more risky in such conditions. However, despite not washing meat myself I have knowingly and happily eaten food cooked by friends who do it, am not dead yet, and hope to do so many times again in my life. I'll take the risk. Personally I'd be more worried about excessive kitchen bleaching.

Episode Sun 09-Feb-14 14:36:30

re the issue of no seasoning vs seasoning.....

Ethnic minorities (or black people in particular) do not and never have regarded British culinary skills as sophisticated!

Clearly with the comments about over seasoning and being able to enjoy the taste of decent meat without any seasoning whatsoever, this works both ways.

Its just cultural differences and my pallet has been adjusted accordingly meaning I'll probably never enjoy unseasoned food like most British would probably call the seasoning of mine spicy or whatever.

A large (if not larger) proportion of the world wash their meat and always have. We are still here so its probably not the biggest deal if we carry in doing it, just like you are free not to. And it seems to me the only argument against doing so is splashing juices everywhere! I think its insulting to assume people don't know how to clean their kitchens and you will find that a lot of these skills were bought to Britain not so long ago.

I for one would find it very difficult to throw a load of blood in my pan (worth mentioning that for generations most ethnic minorities have also bought HALAL meat and/or from MARKETS).

This thread is quite simply because of arrogance around what we each practice vs others.

Look here for a different perspective.
http://eatstreetblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/p9122265.jpg

Sorry no link. On phone!

Chunderella Sun 09-Feb-14 14:46:43

I don't think identifying that if you only ever eat spiced meat, you're unlikely to enjoy it unspiced equates to saying people who fall into that category are culinarily unsophisticated Episode. It's just a fact, it's the way palates work. It certainly isn't the equivalent of the traditional snobbery about British food and cooking from various other cultures. These days, I think most ethnically British people under 40 or so will be used to both spicy and unspiced food: it may be different if you are of eg Pakistani descent. But that would certainly be the norm for someone of my generation (I'm 29). I don't know any white British people in my peer group who don't choose to eat a mixture of both. Having grown up with that variety is great because it does give you the ability to enjoy both. So I don't think there's an equivalent within the white British population to Caribbean people not liking unspiced food- or if there is, it's dying out.

Episode Sun 09-Feb-14 14:55:01

I didn't mean it was unsophisticated I was just trying to draw attention to the fact that judgements work both ways and practices that we each employ are because of multiple reasons. Heat, buying habits etc. Simply understanding this makes understanding meat washing and seasoning un 'weird' or 'crazy' as many have commented. Similarly it makes perfect sense that a packet of chicken breast fillet doesn't necessarily need washing! I draw the line at chicken with skin on it though though! grin The slime under the skin!!!!

Episode Sun 09-Feb-14 14:57:49

And I am aware that most British under 40's have a relatively mixed pallet as do I being British born and raised, but I just wouldn't enjoy in seasoned meat (in fact most food) and because if what I have been made accustomed to, don't actually see the point. I'm not actually saying this is a good thing either!

Pobblewhohasnotoes Sun 09-Feb-14 14:59:37

I don't think identifying that if you only ever eat spiced meat, you're unlikely to enjoy it unspiced equates to saying people who fall into that category are culinarily unsophisticated

^ This absolutely. It's quite insulting actually. I like meat spiced or unspiced, depends what I'm eating. Eating non spiced food doesn't mean you've got an unrefined palate. Infact maybe the opposite, if you like both.

Chunderella Sun 09-Feb-14 15:05:53

Although saying that I don't consider my palate to be remotely refined, and I'll eat anything from a plain roast with just salt and pepper to a vindaloo. I do feel fortunate to be able to enjoy a mixture of cuisines though. It provides so many more opportunities to be greedy!

Slubberdegullion Sun 09-Feb-14 15:07:59

Episode, your point re a large proportion of the world washing their meat and "we are still here so it's probably not the biggest deal if we carry on doing it". I'm afraid this spectacularly misses the point of what the food hygienists on the thread have been saying, that is is a big deal.

stats for campylobacter infections, including deaths. Most related to poultry. I think 460,000 cases of food poisoning related to just this one organism alone is actually a big deal.
This has nothing to do with cultural differences. It's to do with science and how disease is spread.
If the scientists are saying 'don't wash your meat, it increases your risk of getting ill' why not just, I dunno, not wash your meat. It's reducing the amount of work you have to do, rather than increasing it (washing meat and then thoroughly sterilising your kitchen).

MamaPain Sun 09-Feb-14 15:09:23

Some of the comments on this thread are very sneery. The way I see meat washing is like a foreign delicacy. If you ever travelled and had that moment where they tell you duck tongue or camel testicle is the local delight you must try, and your busy trying to explain you don't fancy it. Rationally there is no reason why we shouldn't eat those foods but they turn our national stomach and most would say it feels wrong, there isn't a valid reason. In the same way that rationally there is no need to wash meat but it just feels wrong not to for some people. There is no need to be so dismissive of others cultural practices. Being curious, noting differences and a bit of banter is fine but when it comes across as belittling I think it extremely unpleasant.

According to DH, a Jamaican, washing meat and seasoning (which is what a lot of people will know as jerk) originated in Jamaica when your average joe couldn't get decent fresh meat.

The thing is that MIL/FIL and now DH are raised on strongly saddened meat. DH had never eaten a piece of plain meat until he moved to this country and had school dinners aged 15. Most chefs recognise how even light seasoning such as rosemary on a joint of lamb improves flavour and texture.

AmberLeaf Sun 09-Feb-14 15:11:58

If the scientists are saying 'don't wash your meat, it increases your risk of getting ill' why not just, I dunno, not wash your meat

Because the proof is in the chicken pudding.

If people are washing their meat and not getting sick, why would they stop because a scientist told them to?

It clearly isn't a big deal.

Episode Sun 09-Feb-14 15:15:46

grin @ Amberleaf
That was a good one!

MamaPain Sun 09-Feb-14 15:18:24

Slobber, admittedly I don't know anything about this area but your link says campylobacter us found in red meat, unpasteurised milk and untreated water. I didn't consider that to mean poultry.

I don't pay any attention to the warnings on this kind of thing as meat washing is a practice my great, great grandparents and every following generation has done so for me its the norm. DH's family are the same. We don't gave illness as a result so I don't feel concern.

AmberLeaf Sun 09-Feb-14 15:19:06

grin it's true though!

Episode Sun 09-Feb-14 15:19:29

And before this thread I had no idea 'scientists' said don't wash meat.

I have washed meat my whole life as has my mum, grandma, aunts, uncles, my whole family and my whole bloody village in fact.

Were are all still going strong.

What about those stats? I'm not trying to minimise your point but er I dunno, maybe I'm trying to give you a bit of context!

MamaPain Sun 09-Feb-14 15:20:04

Slubber, that should be. My iPad insists on you being slobber, sorry.

Episode Sun 09-Feb-14 15:20:59

And of course it has everything to do with cultural differences....

HAVE YOU BOUGHT MEAT FROM A MARKET?????

MrsSteptoe Sun 09-Feb-14 15:30:51

And to think I clicked on this thread thinking it was going to be a euphemism.

It's exceeded all my expectations.

Caitlin17 Sun 09-Feb-14 15:40:40

MrsSteptoe me too and oddly as a non meat washer the thread title is more squirm making than any activity which might have been covered euphemistically. I just can't picture washing a nice joint of lamb!

Fishandjam Sun 09-Feb-14 15:45:56

The vinegar thing - I remember my mum telling me that if the mince was beginning to go off a bit and had that "ripe" smell - slosh some vinegar on, soak for a few minutes, drain and rinse, then cook. It definitely works - though as what you're doing is removing the smell and taste of decomposition, I'm not sure it's to be recommended. (Obviously it won't kill any bacteria - the few times I've done this, I've boiled the mince to buggery afterwards.)

Those who think industrially produced meat is clean - have a read of Eric Slosser's Fast Food Nation. You'll definitely think twice about mince. (Though it's obvious, if you think about where E coli/campylobacter et al actually live...)

I still don't wash my meat, mind.

ToBeSure Sun 09-Feb-14 15:46:12

I hate to introduce actual facts into this thread but I have worked in an abboitoir and in a meat packaging plant as an Environmental Health Officer. I specialized in food poisoning. Abbatoirs are a million times cleaner than they used to be but they are far from spotless.

....and I wash my meat if I can but I don't much worry about it if I can't. I wash it mainly to wash off bits of foriegn matter, such as bits of bone or hair, that may be on the meat. If done with a little care then there is no reason at all that you should end up 'contaminating' your sink and work surfaces.

Thorough cooking is the most important thing to do to kill harmful bacteria especially with chicken or minced meats.

Slubberdegullion Sun 09-Feb-14 16:16:57

Episode, YES I HAVE BOUGHT MEAT FROM A MARKET (why are we shouting btw, it's quite unnecessary). dh bought meat from a market yesterday and cooked it today, no meat washing occurred. In fact I have not washed meat my whole life as has my mum, grandma, aunts, uncles, my whole family, I cannot comment on the whole bloody village though.
We are all still going strong too.

Can you see that that sort of anecdotal evidence does not add anything to the evidence regarding food poisoning?

Here is the fact sheet from the WHO regarding campylobacter infection.
Main point of note is
To prevent Campylobacter infections, make sure to follow basic food hygiene practices when preparing food.

Here is the link to the NHS how to prepare and cook food safely website.
"Raw meat, including poultry, can contain harmful bacteria that can spread easily to anything it touches. This includes other food, worktops, tables, chopping boards and knives.
"Lots of people think they should wash raw chicken, but there's no need," says food hygiene expert Adam Hardgrave. "Any germs on it will be killed if you cook it thoroughly. In fact, if you do wash chicken you could splash germs on to the sink, worktop, dishes or anything else nearby."

MamaPain, my first link from the FSA states "Campylobacter is the most common cause of food poisoning in the UK. It is considered to be responsible for around 460,000 cases of food poisoning, 22,000 hospitalisations and 110 deaths each year and most of these cases come from poultry."

ToBeSure, if I could see visible bits of bone or hair on my meat, I would probably just pick them off rather than wash them off.

SooticaTheWitchesCat Sun 09-Feb-14 16:22:46

My friend who washes her meat always suffers from dodgy stomach. I never wash meat, or anything else really and I don't ever recall being ill through eating anything. Proof enough for me smile

IsaacHuntyChops Sun 09-Feb-14 16:28:46

I do not wash meat. Occasionally I will get some kitchen paper and dab it dry especially pork - the rind only to make sure it is nice and dry so it crackles.

limitedperiodonly Sun 09-Feb-14 17:00:21

I buy my meat and fish from a market. This time of year I guess there is no need for them to refrigerate though the fishmonger always uses ice and there are electrical sockets in the ground all year round.

There are local food shops I wouldn't visit though. I have observed their hygiene and don't think it's very good. Washing stuff in vinegar wouldn't help with their stuff, which I think is substandard, or the other butcher's stuff, which I think is perfect.

That's not to say that I object to personal preference which is what cultural practices are, aren't they?

What I object to is someone suggesting that their personal preference is superior to someone else's.

Particularly when it is in such a loaded area as food preparation or food laws or food hygiene.

Do whatever makes you happy. But don't suggest that if other people behave differently they are dirty.

I think that's what the OP did. And that's what I didn't like.

Tanith Sun 09-Feb-14 17:41:19

My friend's ex-MIL cooked her turkey in the biggest roasting dish she had. It was only ever used once a year for the turkey. The rest of the year, it served as a cat basket for their aged and incontinent cat - and no, she didn't wash it first or even rinsed it, just gave it a quick shake and wipe because "cooking will kill the germs".
I'm afraid I can't tell you whether or not the turkey was washed - everyone was so revolted they didn't notice. I'm inclined to doubt it.

The same woman had a flypaper over the kitchen table that was never changed until it was full.

You may vomit now... smile

VoyageDeVerity Sun 09-Feb-14 17:46:47

I always wash meat in cold water and lemon and I boil mince before using it ( just see what comes off of it - fat and brown sludge).

This is very cultural for me and my family and I notice many English people don't do this.

MamaPain Sun 09-Feb-14 17:52:29

Limited I think the OPs comments are open to interpretation. You did accuse me of excusing her comments which was not at all true, I was actually saying that I think her and my DH were off the same background as her beliefs are similar.

Now from what I remember, you like me, are a fan of bread pudding (I'm sure it's you who has the mum with the special pan grin ), thing is when I first explained to my DH that it used stale bread, he was disgusted, said it was really filthy would surely make us all ill and that it shall never pass his lips. Of course he's now the biggest fiend for bread pudding and gobbles it up no problem. I had assumed the OPs comments were in the same vein, not nasty, more shocked.

I may be totally wrong and she was being very inflammatory, but then I think some of the comments to meat washers have been incredibly rude. I suppose advice against meat washing for many is like advice against eating raw eggs; it makes sense but we're still all eating the cake batter.

coffeeinbed Sun 09-Feb-14 17:58:16

But Verity, once you pre-boil the fat and juices away what's left in the mince?
Surely it can only taste of wood shavings after that treatment.

JassyRadlett Sun 09-Feb-14 18:00:17

Episode, why on earth is 'scientists' in quote marks? They're scientists. They do this stuff for a living. Your family is an anecdote.

If you wash your meat under running water, no matter how slow the water is there'll be droplets outside the sink. People have done tests on the splash patterns.

If people wash it with vinegar or other dilute acids, such as like juice, they're curing it. Does fuck all to any bacteria present, but it will change the taste. So if that's the only way you've experienced, that's what you think meat tastes like. It's not, it's what oxidised meat tastes like. Fine if you like it, but don't kid yourself that there's any hygiene benefit to it.

There's actual data on this stuff, folks. It's not exactly challenging to test whether weak acids do anything to eliminate 'germs'.

For me, the idea of people washing their meat makes my stomach churn. Disgusting.

JassyRadlett Sun 09-Feb-14 18:01:30

Worth noting, for the point of the sample, that I'm neither English, nor British, nor born anywhere near these fair isles. grin

Caitlin17 Sun 09-Feb-14 18:21:38

MamaPain I'd be distraught if I couldn't eat cake batter. The OP started off neutrally but then went on about meat being dirty and blood being disgusting (which is a pretty dim thing for a meat eater to say), how shocked she was and so on, so I think she got people's backs up.

I hope I wasn't rude, but like Jassy the thought of washing meat is far more revolting than slinging it in the pan, and that's not because of any spatter issues (I'd not even thought of that) but it just seems so weird.

Episode Sun 09-Feb-14 18:24:30

Gosh what an inflamed post!

My family and the majority of the world are anecdotal evidence are we? Does that not go against any sort of worthwhile statistic production? Perspective love! Most of the world do this and are still alive.

Obviously most of the world finds the slime and gunk disgusting which is why they wash meat as do I. I have not said anybody that does not is wrong all I have said is I do and the as you say not so anecdotal evidence shows me its no biggie.

Why is this so hard to fathom?

Seriously, calm down!

Episode Sun 09-Feb-14 18:24:51

@Jassey

limitedperiodonly Sun 09-Feb-14 18:25:56

MamaPain You don't know how much it means to me that you remember my post about my mother's special bread pudding tin. Thank you.

I initially found the OP's comments interesting and then bristled about them because I find it tactless for anyone of any background to say they find their cultural experience superior to anyone else's.

And that's what I felt she did.

We are all different, aren't we?

Sadly I can't pass that bread pudding recipe on to you or her superb bubble and squeak. It's gone to her grave.

FoxesRevenge Sun 09-Feb-14 18:28:07

Good post Jassy

Caitlin17 Sun 09-Feb-14 18:28:57

Episodeif you are referring to my last post, I think you should take your own advice and calm down.

BeJesus Sun 09-Feb-14 18:29:20

This is a really pointless thread, wash you meat or don't wash your meat, it really doesn't matter.

Methe Sun 09-Feb-14 18:29:35

The rest of the world? How on earth have you got that data? Have you asked every single person?

Fishandjam Sun 09-Feb-14 18:30:01

Show us some stats for the rest of the world then, episode? Anything from, say, the WHO would do.

The plural of anecdote is anecdotes. Not data.

limitedperiodonly Sun 09-Feb-14 18:30:51

You did accuse me of excusing her comments which was not at all true, I was actually saying that I think her and my DH were off the same background as her beliefs are similar

MamaPain I'll trawl. Maybe so. Let's regroup. We might not agree but let's see smile

AmberLeaf Sun 09-Feb-14 18:32:25

The 'ick' 'madness' and 'yuck' amongst others comments were directed to the meat washers.

AmberLeaf Sun 09-Feb-14 18:33:30

What sort of research to get stats from do you think happens on things that the mainstream thinks is wrong?

FoxesRevenge Sun 09-Feb-14 18:34:04

Just don't eat meat. No risk of contamination and jippy guts. Simples! grin

AmberLeaf Sun 09-Feb-14 18:39:15

The plural of anecdote is anecdotes. Not data

Very true. But there not being stats to back it up doesn't mean that it doesn't happen, just that there are no stats to prove it.

JassyRadlett Sun 09-Feb-14 18:50:29

Episode, I'm beeyootifully calm, but thanks for bothering about me.grin

Yep, as far as evidence is concerned, your family and mine are both anecdotal. What counts as data? Stuff like NHS stats showing that food poisoning is a serious health issue, lab tests on the impact of washing / vinegar rinsing on bacteria and other lab work on washing meat. That's your actual evidence, as opposed to 'my family have always washed/not washed meat and been fine'.

Me personally? I feel that washing meat is disgusting based on the fact that it increases the risk (NB: not guarantees!) the risk of food poisoning, and has absolutely no beneficial points as far as health is concerned.

Where are you getting your 'most of the world' from, btw?

AmberLeaf Sun 09-Feb-14 18:53:50

Do you think generations of people, across numerous countries/communities of people/descendants from those countries would do it and keep on doing it if it were making them and their families ill?

Episode Sun 09-Feb-14 18:54:58

no not you Caitlin.

fishand - sorry where did I say data?

My only point is that most of the world, loads of the world or a bloody fifth of the world, do it. They are not dying because of it.

If the only reason you shouldn't is because of water splashing, then its not a big thing. It really is not that hard to do it without splashing water and cleaning afterwards. Maybe this is down to taught experience too?

Did everybody decide to ignore the post from the abattoir worker?

Lol what do you want us meat washers to do, agree that the western way of doing things is so advanced and we should stop washing meat 'because its going to kill us' right now?

I understand your points of view but I have my own experiences and because of those I will stick with my methods.

You see it as common sense and I see what most of you are saying as dramatic, arrogant, ignorant and a few other things but they will cause offence so I won't say them.

Luckily I don't take offence too easily and so I am eye rolling and laughing at the over reactions and the 'you are so thick because what you do is pointless and our ways are obviously more intelligent' undertones. wink

MamaPain Sun 09-Feb-14 19:03:04

My pleasure limited, I'm a meat washer bread pudding connoisseur so rarely forget anything related.

I'm not defending the OP, more just pointing out that she may have been misunderstood and because she wasn't very nice while defending something it doesn't mean that practice is unpleasant, just her. Not all meat washers are mental bitches, just we have ingrained behaviours, telling me not to wash my meat is like telling me to stop wiping my bum. I could be presented with a dossier as to the health benefits but I'll never stop wiping!

I know unwashed meat won't make me ill, I eat out and at friends so am not that fussy, it's just my ritual when cooking meat. Washing a piece of chicken in a sink is no less contaminating to the kitchen than chopping up a whole chicken. I've had lots of practice because of a mixed marriage but I think lots of you could do with a bit of tolerance.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Sun 09-Feb-14 19:05:46

My mum makes an awesome bread pudding. I love it and have done since as long as I can remember.

Caitlin17 Sun 09-Feb-14 19:11:06

My kitchen has 4 cats in it who have no concept of any part of it being off limits so I doubt if the splatter from washing meat would make my kitchen any more unhygienic than it already is.

I also completely fail to see how washing meat will make it cleaner or safer to eat.

I am utterly puzzled why anyone who is a meat eater is squeamish about the blood that comes from meat or needs to wash the blood off.

Nothing cooked by me in my kitchen has ever given anyone an upset stomach.

nooka Sun 09-Feb-14 19:21:21

I like this 'me and the rest of the world' do it and we are all alive, so no need for science to tell us anything line. It's such advanced thinking really, avoiding any thought about the people who did whatever is being discussed and died or were very ill. In population terms I guess that's just natural selection at work, but avoiding food poisoning is generally a better idea than surviving it.

Plus how can anyone opine on the habits of the 'majority' rest of the world without any knowledge - are there reliable worldwide surveys on meat washing?

I really couldn't care less whether other people chose to rinse their meat with water before they cook, I've a fairly robust constitution and can probably cope with occasional dodgy hygiene. I do object to being told my practices are disgusting, when they are in fact evidence based and safe.

Most seasoning was introduced to cover up for the taste of meat going off. Before refrigeration eating off meat was probably pretty common (and yes people got ill and sometimes died as a result).

JassyRadlett Sun 09-Feb-14 19:35:36

Episode, no ones trying to stop you doing it. I'll happily and contentedly stick to my ignorance based on scientific evidence, and honestly I'm not too fussed what you do - unless you ask me round to your house, when I'll likely decline as there is an increased risk of me getting food poisoning round yours. (NB again: not a guarantee. But food poisoning is relatively common, and not very pleasant, so I'd like to keep the risk as low as poss, ta.)

Honestly? The evidence shows there's no benefit and a potentially increased risk. If you can show me evidence to the contrary, brilliant, you may change both my mind and my practices. If not, then I'm cool with my 'ignorance' based on some work on what is and is not effective against bacteria.

I'm still curious about what you've got against scientists, by the way.

JassyRadlett Sun 09-Feb-14 19:39:26

* no one's, obv.

Thetallesttower Sun 09-Feb-14 19:43:04

I find terms like 'disgusting' about other people's food practices completely unnecessary.

I am in a mixed culture marriage- half of us don't wash the meat, half of us do (they don't wash under a tap, but in bowls, exactly the same as marinade so I don't see the potential for cross-contamination worse than the bowl the chicken was defrosting in).

Just as well all of us are tolerant and usually chuckle about our different practices, even finding them strange. But never 'disgusting'.

FoxesRevenge Sun 09-Feb-14 19:43:43

I am utterly puzzled why anyone who is a meat eater is squeamish about the blood that comes from meat or needs to wash the blood off.

Agree

JassyRadlett Sun 09-Feb-14 19:45:45

You're right, tallest, disgusting was a but OTT from me (though I do find the idea of meat-washing very unpleasant, but I'll happily own it as my own issue).

Episode Sun 09-Feb-14 19:51:56

Jassy..... Can you point me to a study which shows the illness and deaths caused by meat washing?

Scientists...... Important in context!

Episode Sun 09-Feb-14 19:54:56

The blood of an animal is not allowed in Islam and Judaism first of all.

Secondly I see your question similarly to asking if you are happy to eat mud because potatoes grow from the ground hmm

Meat is meat. Meat is not blood.

AmberLeaf Sun 09-Feb-14 20:14:18

Are meat splashes from washing more deadly than general uncooked meat contamination then? like the chopping board, the knife etc.

I expect the answer to that is, no, because they get washed up properly...as does the sink/bowl that is used to wash meat.

Gov issued guidelines are generally dumbed down to the lowest denominator, the ones regarding uncooked meat also include avoiding cross contamination [different chopping boards for differen foods etc] in food prep. As long as good hygeine is practised, most people will be fine.

Jjuice Sun 09-Feb-14 20:26:33

Whilewesleep

wet myself at Only in a beaker.

MamaPain Sun 09-Feb-14 20:27:25

Caitlin/Foxes, not eating blood isn't always about being squeamish, there are other reasons.

This may be of interest to you.

Caitlin17 Sun 09-Feb-14 20:31:29

Episode sorry but eating meat and being squeamish about the blood that comes from is completely illogical.

GlitzAndGiggles Sun 09-Feb-14 20:35:03

The blood does make me squeamish as does human blood and I personally wash it in a bowl so it's not splashing everywhere and still clean the area after. Never had food poisoning from my washed meat smile

gamerchick Sun 09-Feb-14 20:37:58

the OP wasn't misunderstood mamapain..just unpleasant.

who hasn't been back btw after being called on being a racist twat. Funny that.

gamerchick Sun 09-Feb-14 20:39:50

the blood makes decent stock.. why the fuck would you want to wash it down the sink anyway? Own your meat hmm

Daykin Sun 09-Feb-14 20:43:49

The blood is part of the meat, surely. It's not like washing potatoes to get the mud off. It's like cutting an orange up and plunging it into a bowl of water to get rid of the taste of the juice. I like blood, me.

MamaPain Sun 09-Feb-14 20:43:55

As I said, it's not always about being squeamish. There are often cultural reasons. I'm not particularly religious but we still follow many practices likes the washing of meat as part of kashrut.

JassyRadlett Sun 09-Feb-14 20:44:06

Amber, from my perspective I'd rather do what I can to remove the risks as much as possible - which means avoiding as many potential causes of cross-contamination, including droplet spread, as possible.

Here's an interesting study on microbiological risk factors (well, precis of the study. Twas ever thus). Campden BRI seem actually to have done two linked studies on this in 2003. Naturally the full studies are behind a paywall but most food safety organisations (not just in the UK) recommend people don't wash meat based on evidence of cross-contamination. Paragraphs 8.11 onwards of this one seem to give more detail on the droplet studies.

I imagine it's very difficult to determine exactly how the many cases of food poisoning reported each year were linked to a certain practice as it almost always depends on a degree of personal bias (the person who is ill, the person who cooked the food if that person is different), and there may well be multiple ways the pathogen could have survived.

Caitlin17 Sun 09-Feb-14 20:45:13

I have no axe to grind about washing meat being unhygienic. I had never heard of it and if a piece of meat is not fresh I cannot see how washing it will make it better or why fresh meat needs it.

I do think if you're meat eater being squeamish about the blood is a bit hypocritical.

JassyRadlett Sun 09-Feb-14 20:45:36

Out of interest - those who wash in a bowl, exactly what do you do with your hands before and afterwards?

Episode Sun 09-Feb-14 20:47:44

Blood is here nor there with regard to stock imo. Its the fat that counts.

I'm not squeamish about the blood per se, I just dont see blood as clean and that lends itself to religious and cultural inluence I guess.

I am not practising and do eat out but in preperation its something I have been taught should not be present when eating and/or must be removed or washed off.

The meat Ihave grown up eating is 9/10 halal so I blood being present is alien to me.

Just my experience!

Episode Sun 09-Feb-14 20:50:20

Jassy - We do what I would expect any one handling meat or any food to do before and after, wash them! Im confused at the question....

gamerchick Sun 09-Feb-14 20:52:45

if you're eating a dead animal then blood is part of that experience.

Eat the flesh but don't want to see the blood... seriously? christ! This is a dead animal that has died to feed your arse.. you don't want to see any blood? that's offensive to the damned animal.

which is ironic since more blood has been spilled in the name of religion more than anything else.

Caitlin17 Sun 09-Feb-14 20:53:00

How is blood "unclean"? That blood was coursing through and essential for sustaining the life of the animal you are about to eat. If the blood is unclean how is the flesh in which it passed through also not unclean?

GlitzAndGiggles Sun 09-Feb-14 20:53:15

Wash them of course as you would when you handle any food. If I'm using chilli I wear gloves cause I bite around my nails and it kills when chilli touches it

gamerchick Sun 09-Feb-14 20:55:48

yeah chilli kills when you go for a piss when you've got dick.

Slubberdegullion Sun 09-Feb-14 20:55:53

Here is a link to a study carried out in 2009 by the Food Standards Agency looking at "campylobacter and salmonella prevalence on fresh chicken at retail".
Things (I sincerely hope) may be better now but this finding "The prevalence of campylobacter in chicken at retail in the UK was 65.2% based on the combined methods for the 927 samples tested." is quite surprising.

Link from the CDC about campylobacteriosis.
"Most cases of campylobacteriosis are associated with eating raw or undercooked poultry meat or from cross-contamination of other foods by these items." "It only takes a very few Campylobacter organisms (fewer than 500) to make a person sick. Even one drop of juice from raw chicken meat can have enough Campylobacter in it to infect a person!"

gamerchick Sun 09-Feb-14 20:56:03

apparently.

Caitlin17 Sun 09-Feb-14 20:58:13

gamerchick The chef Ferguson Henderson agrees with you.

A famous quote from the book, and personal slogan of Henderson that is often cited by newspapers and used by master chefs reads, "If you're going to kill the animal it seems only polite to use the whole thing."

Caitlin17 Sun 09-Feb-14 20:59:04
JassyRadlett Sun 09-Feb-14 21:00:51

Episode - I mean, is the tap already running, or do you have to turn it on? Have you moved the meat away? How far away do you move it? Is it still dripping (if it is dripping it is probably shedding bacteria). What do you do with the cloth you use to wipe the surface?

Thinking about it though those are valid questions for all meat handling (apart from my occasional 'open pack, dump mince in pan') so actually reasonably irrelevant, apologies. Still interested in what happens with your wet hands though.

MamaPain Sun 09-Feb-14 21:01:19

But since when is meat dripping with blood. Admittedly I don't eat red meat or pork but I've never once found blood dripping from my chicken or turkey.

As I have repeatedly mentioned, my religion forbids the consumption of blood. I'm not that strict but for many people it is a consideration.

Don't be so rude and dismissive of other people's religious choices, there's no pride in being a smug or nasty.

gamerchick Sun 09-Feb-14 21:03:09

it's irritating.. if you're going to use an animal then at least be polite to the damned thing.

no respect to a religion or culture who thinks it's above another life that's died to feed it.

and the OP hasn't been back so I know it was on a wind up anyroad.

hides thread.

AmberLeaf Sun 09-Feb-14 21:04:24

If you are going to wash meat and you just hold it under a tap, you're going to get splash back.

People have talked about bowls, you wont be getting splash back from a bowl as you won't be running a tap into it.

Out of interest - those who wash in a bowl, exactly what do you do with your hands before and afterwards?

Wipe them across the mouths of my children...but seriously, what kind of question is that?

JassyRadlett Sun 09-Feb-14 21:06:32

Amber, I've already clarified. Didn't think it through fully - but if you're washing meat for hygiene reasons, how do you prevent the drops from your hands contaminating your surfaces?

JassyRadlett Sun 09-Feb-14 21:07:38

Also, wouldn't you need to be very careful when putting bird into /out of the bowl not to get even tiny amounts of droplet spray?

AmberLeaf Sun 09-Feb-14 21:08:35

Jassy if you prepare for example, chicken breast on a chopping board. What do you to prevent your hands contaminating surfaces, including when you wash the contaminated chopping board and knife/scissors?

JassyRadlett Sun 09-Feb-14 21:08:56

Though for my question to make any sense you probably need to accept first that rinsing or washing in vinegar/lemon/line does bugger all to the bacteria.

AmberLeaf Sun 09-Feb-14 21:09:51

I don't get all the cross examining TBH. As though meat washing is the only potential for cross contamination when cooking meat.

JassyRadlett Sun 09-Feb-14 21:12:38

Amber, if I've prepared a chicken on my chopping board, my hands aren't dripping wet (with water potentially contaminated with bacteria) as I move them around my kitchen. That's what the difference is, to me.

Once I get to the sink, I've got kitchen taps I can turn on with my elbow, luckily for me, and I wash my hands thoroughly after stacking the dishwasher. I'm now looking askance at my soap dispenser as I probably am not as thorough with that as I should be (the side of my hand is not an ideal solution!)

AmberLeaf Sun 09-Feb-14 21:13:08

if you're going to use an animal then at least be polite to the damned thing

Be polite to a dead animal that Im about to cook?

no respect to a religion or culture who thinks it's above another life that's died to feed it

It's all coming out isn't it.

I expect lots of you consider yourselves liberal and tolerant too.

You are going to be eating animal flesh. A bit of blood it is sitting in is nothing really.

JassyRadlett Sun 09-Feb-14 21:14:57

Amber, of course it's not. As I've said numerous times, it's one risk factor and it seems one that's pretty easy to avoid as it has no hygiene benefits.

It's also one that numerous food safety organisations (not just in the UK) feel strongly enough about to run campaigns on, now and in the past.

I'm not cross-examining - I'm honestly curious. Apologies if it came across as hostile.

AmberLeaf Sun 09-Feb-14 21:15:34

Jassy I wash meat and always have done. That is how I was taught to prepare meat.

I have not poisoned anyone, nor have I been ill myself, either at my house or any of my friends/families houses where Ive eaten. They also wash meat first.

I am happy for people to do what the hell they like with their food and would like that to be reflected back to me and how I cook mine.

Caitlin17 Sun 09-Feb-14 21:16:01

MamaPain your religious views dont entitle you to dictate what others think or say. I find the idea that random animals and random parts of random animals are unclean, absurd and odd as this might sound, insulting to the animal. My lack of religion is as valid as your religion. You are confusing respecting your right to hold religious views with respecting the views themselves.I do not think pigs are unclean, nor animal blood not unclean so respecting that is a,non starter.

Episode Sun 09-Feb-14 21:16:11

Reminder....

ToBeSure Sun 09-Feb-14 15:46:12

I hate to introduce actual facts into this thread but I have worked in an abboitoir and in a meat packaging plant as an Environmental Health Officer. I specialized in food poisoning. Abbatoirs are a million times cleaner than they used to be but they are far from spotless.

....and I wash my meat if I can but I don't much worry about it if I can't. I wash it mainly to wash off bits of foriegn matter, such as bits of bone or hair, that may be on the meat. If done with a little care then there is no reason at all that you should end up 'contaminating' your sink and work surfaces.

Thorough cooking is the most important thing to do to kill harmful bacteria especially with chicken or minced meats.

***

This sums up much of what both sides have said. The majority of meat washers have not been up in arms about the fact the most of you dont do it.

Some non washers have been disgusted hmm at the fact we do, and others have taken the logical approach being it probably doesn’t matter all that much.

And the comments about using all of the animal are laughable..... You have come to a board arguing against ethnic minorities about using most of the meat? Have you been to a supermarket or an ethnic butcher vs a British one?

Im not even sure why im arguing against ignorance and arrogance based on some sought of cultural imperialism. Meat washing is common in quite a few religions and cultures and these are the reasons we wash meat. It’s actually quite simple and if you take your heads out of your arses, easy to understand.

Its stupid to think people would stop forbidden practice because of the risk of splashing meat water around. Just clean it!

Water splashing is the only scientific evidence which exists for your arguments and know body can confirm how may deaths or illnesses are caused by washing meat so I'm struggling to understand your 'evidence' and how some find it so hard to think outside of what has been 'written'. Most scientists would never prove a thing if all they went by was what other scientists had said.

Oh yes, and I guess most of you have never eaten curries from a Pakistani restaurant.........

Anyway as you were! I'm out. Don’t forget to ask if people wash their meat on your next ethnic experience! grin

AmberLeaf Sun 09-Feb-14 21:18:10

Honestly, if something I did made me sick, I would stop doing it.

Usual hygeine of washing hands etc. cleaning surfaces, I wash/change my dishcloths every day.

JassyRadlett Sun 09-Feb-14 21:19:11

Amber - honestly couldn't care less what you do with your own meat in your own home. The evidence behind it obviously doesn't bother you and risk assessment is ultimately something each of us does for our own families based on the evidence and other factors such as religion and culture.

However what does bother me is when people make statements about something being clean, unclean or ignorant based on no evidence whatsoever, because their statements could influence others. I'm sure I irritate many on Mumsnet with my pernickety questions about what the science says but for me, that's a signficant factor in how I make (and re-evaluate) my decisions. Said evidence has led me to change my practices on a number of things over the years.

AmberLeaf Sun 09-Feb-14 21:22:20

The evidence behind it obviously doesn't bother you

It doesn't mean anything to me because my many years of experience say otherwise.

tiredoldmum Sun 09-Feb-14 21:23:26

If it is a whole chicken, I might give it a rinse under the tap but nothing fancy.

I just make sure to clean my hands and work area thoroughly before handling raw meat.

I have seen how other people prepare food and it makes me not want to eat anything prepared by them. I have also gotten food poisoning from a work pot luck.

The nastiest things I have seen is someone throwing a raw chicken into their dirty sink and running water over it and preparing food with unwashed hands.

Men are good at not washing their hands. You see them scratching their balls, picking their toenails and going into the kitchen and handling sliced meat etc. without washing their hands. yuck.

Caitlin17 Sun 09-Feb-14 21:23:49

Episide what is laughable about the idea of eating all of the animal?

JassyRadlett Sun 09-Feb-14 21:24:00

Hang on, episode. The insulting of people who don't wash meat in general started at around the 5th post and continued quite strongly from there until others pointed out that there is actual science behind this. Throughout the thread people weren't citing religious reasons for washing meat, it was something they did because it was clean/hygienic as well as for cultural or religious reasons for others.

I'm interested in the science, which I shared as evidence beind my own decision-making. Others have done the same. That's not cultural imperialism or arrogance, that's an evidence-based risk-assessment, using the best available empirical data.

I asked if you had any evidence behind your statements; you declined to provide any.

I'm foreign myself, though you've no idea of my ethnicity.

JassyRadlett Sun 09-Feb-14 21:26:56

Great, Amber.

Ultimately the risks of food poisoning are there, we all make decisions on how to minimise them based on what we see as important.

For you, it's your family's experience. For me, I'm a statistically-significant samples and scientific method kind of person. I prefer to look beyond my immediate past experience when trying to avoid future nasties - recognising that we might just have been lucky so far.

Tallforadwarf Sun 09-Feb-14 21:28:25

Mamapain, even though chicken/turkey isn't dripping in blood it still does contain blood. That's why when you check to see if it's cooked and stick a knife in you see if the juices are clear....

Meat is muscle and muscle needs blood to function, so all meat contains blood. If a religion forbids the consumption of blood then I presume that religion promotes vegetarianism? Forgive me, I'm not clued up on any religious activities.

Daykin Sun 09-Feb-14 21:33:13

This is completely irrelevant but a friend of mine who is a plumber went to do some work at a restaurant. He was led into the back room and there was a man kneeling on the floor chopping chicken on the carpet. On the actual carper - no chopping board or special meat rinsing bowl or anything. Put me off eating out for almost an hour.

MamaPain Sun 09-Feb-14 21:34:09

Caitlin I'm not confusing the two. I am getting frustrated at some posters repeatedly dismissing and underestimating how important these rules are for some people. I have from the beginning said I happily eat unwashed meat and understand that there is little if any scientific support for washing meat.

Some posters seem to wilfully ignore the cultural explanation. Obviously you know that many people's lives are dictated by their religions, so the way some posters are acting as if that is not a valid reason has really pissed me off!

Daykin Sun 09-Feb-14 21:34:25

carpet - not carper. Carper would arguably be worse.

AmberLeaf Sun 09-Feb-14 21:34:59

Episide what is laughable about the idea of eating all of the animal?

I think she said arguing with ethnic minorities on that matter is laughable.

If you go to an ethnic butcher you will see that you can buy every last piece of the animal!

WorraLiberty Sun 09-Feb-14 21:35:57

I think this thread is hilarious now grin

Never let it be said that we don't take our meat seriously on Mumsnet!

AmberLeaf Sun 09-Feb-14 21:37:20

Yes the cultural explanations being dismissed as silly is rather rude.

MamaPain Sun 09-Feb-14 21:38:00

Jassy, for you,I know exactly how I wash meat because I have a thing about cleaning my taps and draining board blush

1. Wash hands and faff around in the kitchen in until I once again remember what I'm supposed to be doing.
2. Take meat from fridge, get meat bowl and place it in left sink, turn the tap on low.
3. Remove meat from packet, place it in bin (pedal bin, I don't touch it), place meat in bowl, and push bowl under running water.
4. Move meat about in the water gently until it is submerged then lift bowl out of left sink and into right sink.
5. Use my soap dispenser then rinse hands under water. Turn off the tap.

This is one of the reasons I have a deep, wide double sink. I can go through the next steps if necessary.

Caitlin17 Sun 09-Feb-14 21:39:01

Tallforadwarf exactly you cannot separate the blood from the flesh. As you say if you cut into undercooked chicken it runs red. A rare steak runs red when you cut it, a well done one won't but that is due to the cooking process not the absence of blood.

GlitzAndGiggles Sun 09-Feb-14 21:42:15

My local tesco has a halal meat counter and they sell every part of the animal. I buy my meat there cause it's cheaper than tesco's own and you get more

MamaPain Sun 09-Feb-14 21:43:24

Tallforadwarf, this link may help answer some of your questions:

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/practices/Ritual/Kashrut_Dietary_Laws/Kosher_Food/Meat/Making_Meat_Kosher.shtml?p=1

As I have previously said I don't fully follow these practices, I just wash meat, but yes I know people and have family who are very strict with this kind of thing.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Sun 09-Feb-14 21:46:36

Can someone tell me what rinsing a chicken under a tap is meant to achieve? I don't mean those who leave it in a bowl.

WholeNutt Sun 09-Feb-14 21:48:05

I like my meat to be clean. and a fresh penis beaker daily

NearTheWindmill Sun 09-Feb-14 21:49:18

I think it achieves a rinsed through chicken which is then swabbed dry with a tea towel that the cook forgets has swabbed raw meat and then uses to dry hands, wipe clean a mug and plate, etc. Oh dear.

Caitlin17 Sun 09-Feb-14 21:50:04

MamaPain would you prefer I lied? Designating certain animals and certain parts of certain animals as unclean might be culturally important to some. I find it illogical and hypocrtical.

I grew up on a mixed stock farm, we used no intensive farming and whilst I knew the animals would be slaughtered my grandfather ensured they were given the best possible care when under his care.

I have in the past been vegetarian which also colours my views but distinguishing between unclean and clean animals is not a concept I can respect.

JassyRadlett Sun 09-Feb-14 21:50:49

I don't think cultural or religious reasons are silly at all. I'm a bit iffy about 'ethnic' being used as a cultural and religious catch all as if all religious and cultural practices are identical (and as if there are not significant differences of views within religions on what qualifies as halal and kosher).

MamaPain, thank you as honestly I was curious about how it worked for people. smile

Wabbitty Sun 09-Feb-14 21:57:20

The problem with the post that Episode has quoted is that although someone has given "facts" - they aren't it's just their opinion. My OH is also an EHO and has also worked in abattoir but he doesn't wash meat.

Tallforadwarf Sun 09-Feb-14 22:03:19

Mamapain, thanks for the link. I've read bits about kosher before but it's interesting to read it in that context. I'm a little disturbed if I'm honest, it seems a bit extreme, but I respect your beliefs and can understand why you don't fully follow the practises in the link.

This is a cut and paste for those thinking all animal parts aren't used, in fairness some bits aren't....

Uncooked meat products
Certain parts of the carcass of mammalian species may not be used in uncooked meat products (brains, feet, small and large intestine, lungs, oesophagus, rectum, spinal cord, spleen, stomach, testicles, udder ). However, uncooked intestines may be used as casings (for sausages , for example). Note also the banned material in the following paragraph.

Specified risk material (SRM)
The sale of SRM or any food containing it for human consumption is banned, as is its use or sale for use in the preparation of food for human consumption. For bovine animals, SRM varies according to whether it originated in the UK and its age, but generally includes skull (including brain and eyes ), tonsils, spinal cord, thymus, spleen and intestines. For sheep and goats there are also differences for age, UK and non-UK animals, but generally SRM includes skull including brain and eyes, tonsils, spinal cord and spleen.

ToBeSure Sun 09-Feb-14 22:19:56

Wabbitty

I was the poster that Episode quoted. If you look at my post I simply said I wash meat to get foreign matter off it and that what matters is thoroughly cooking meat!

I didn't say anything about washing bacteria off meat confused

I will wash my meat if I can as I prefer it but I am unbothered by unwashed meat. confused. I don't wash every cut of meat as it depends what it is. I would always wash pork chops but I would never wash beef fillet and I obviously wouldn't wash mince. hmm

Pumpkin567 Mon 10-Feb-14 06:39:46

No it's a hygiene risk. Also I would want to eat any cleaning product.

There was an advertising campaign to inform people not to do this.

KarenBrockman Sun 23-Feb-14 08:38:08

I think washing meat is unhygienic, I wouldn't trust you to wash your contaminated hands/surfaces properly after.

I don't have an issue with blood, all adds to the flavour, I don't touch raw=uncooked meat, I use a fork to transfer it from pack to pan.

Now I have this great pack of dry barbeque seasoning, yes it makes the food taste nice if I leave the chicken sitting in it overnight.

We also like meat and the actual taste of the meat and enjoy it for it's self or raw as some people seem to describe it, raw to me is uncooked maybe the word they are looking for is not raw, rather they maybe need to look at using the words plain or natural?

I wonder if this loading loads of flavour on everything has dulled or killed off their taste buds and they have lost the ability to taste food for it's self? or if some of us are supertasters and have a better variety of taste buds working. I imagine life for someone with reduced working taste buds would be boring and may be why they need to smother food in extra flavour?

No need to put down white people or their cooking.

Macocious Sun 23-Feb-14 09:50:14

I am from the Caribbean and I do not wash meat. Growing up I saw a lot of people do it though and I wonder if maybe the quality of the meat wasn't good in the olden days so this practice just stuck?

greenfolder Sun 23-Feb-14 10:18:19

i think you need to conclude its cultural!

Methe Sun 23-Feb-14 13:15:05

Oh I hope this tread kicks off again grin

FoxesRevenge Sun 23-Feb-14 13:19:32

Before becoming a vegetarian I used to wash meat therefore not entirely a cultural practice.

HighBrows Sun 23-Feb-14 13:20:19

I put my meat in the dishwasher on a very hot cycle, why are the rest of you not doing that, you dirty things shock



the above is a lie

Taffeta Sun 23-Feb-14 13:24:54

Never done it, never will. Totally daft if not cultural, more likely to spread raw meat germs around kitchen. Unless you are eating the meat raw, in which case, well, good luck. Not a fan of raw meat.

Mycatistoosexy Sun 23-Feb-14 13:34:55

Cooking kills bacteria, that is why we cook meat. I wash an apple because I eat it raw.

I'm finding this whole debate a bit confused

FoxesRevenge Sun 23-Feb-14 13:39:48

grin * Highbrows*

YouAreTalkingRubbish Sun 23-Feb-14 18:17:09

Wash your eat, don't wash your meat, I really don't care because it doesn't matter but saying you don't wash you meat because washing it will contaminate your kitchen is really daft confused
If I wash meat I hold it under a slow tap in the sink, then I dab it dry with lint free paper towel. I am conscious of cross contamination just as I am when I handle meat and meat products that I don't wash.

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