AIBU about period blood (warning) at work on toilet (not mine!)

(98 Posts)
HelloBoys Wed 29-Jan-14 13:38:05

I work in a small office with another woman.

Whenever she has her period she leaves trails of bright red blood on the toilet seat. I usually use wet wipes (cleaners have some in the drawer outside the toilet) to clear it up.

She also complains loudly that "her womb is falling out" when she is on. I can ignore her comment but the blood is nasty but how can I mention this to her?

I always check the toilet seat if I'm on and wipe it. The smears here are large, across the seat.

what can I say to her? would YOU say anything to her?

cees Wed 29-Jan-14 13:41:04

(vomit)

I dunno but that's rank, the dirty bitch, who does that. Yuck

Stonehaven Wed 29-Jan-14 13:41:39

Ugh, that is disgusting! Are you two the only women in the office? If not I'd loudly complain within earshot of everybody that some rank mare had left a right mess.

BinkieWoo Wed 29-Jan-14 13:42:18

Yuck!

She's obviously not fussed about discussing it so maybe just ask your manager to have a quiet word with her and tell her about where the wet wipes are?

formerbabe Wed 29-Jan-14 13:43:55

Next time you go to the loo and there is a mess, go back to your desk and send the following email..

'Didn't want to say this out loud in the office but could you pop to the loo and give it a wipe down please as I need to use it'

If she has any shame, it won't happen again!

Pheasant32 Wed 29-Jan-14 13:45:35

That is completely and utterly disgusting. And totally unnecessary and unacceptable. Vile and awful. Once by mistake could be tolerated but you need to have a word!
I HOPE she doesn't realise that she does it - maybe just a quiet conversation about it one day?? Ugh. Good luck!

Whatisaweekend Wed 29-Jan-14 13:45:43

Uurrrrrgh envy

Can you take her to one side and ask her if she has seen anyone else using the loo, like someone from a nearby office, as they left the most disgusting mess of smeared blood everywhere. You could say you were concerned about the security of the office if some dirty person was able to come in and use the loo.

Or just take the bull by the horns and tell her that she is leaving the loo I the most revolting manner and giving you the boak?

BumPotato Wed 29-Jan-14 13:46:08

Boak, that is rank.

Agree with formerbabe about sending an email.

Chivetalking Wed 29-Jan-14 13:46:18

Lord, that's gross.

I like the email idea.

Failing that, get in there first?

I had to do this with a mucky mare who came in later than everybody else and who used to leave piss all over the one staff toilet angry

goblindancer Wed 29-Jan-14 13:47:10

Yanbu that is disgusting! I think I would say something if I knew for sure it was her. Like " I'm terribly sorry but I really need to use the toilet and I think you have forgotten to wipe the seat"? And add "sorry, I'm just not good with other people's blood"!!

I have to call my ds back often to clean the seat but if I don't make him clean it he'll never learn! So same sort of situation?!

MissMilbanke Wed 29-Jan-14 13:47:51

When she next complains 'my womb is falling out' reply

'yes I know I can see you have left half of it behind on the seat for me to clear up ! '

Gruntfuttock Wed 29-Jan-14 13:50:44

"I had to do this with a mucky mare who came in later than everybody else and who used to leave piss all over the one staff toilet"

Revolting, as is the woman referred to in the OP. I can't fathom what goes on in the minds of anyone who does this. I wonder if they're the same at home. I think naming and shaming is the only thing to do with such people. They're totally inconsiderate of other people and deserve to be made fully aware that it's unacceptable, however filthy they may choose to be at home.

theborrower Wed 29-Jan-14 13:52:31

Ugh, YANBU. Someone in our office left a big smeary trail of blood down the front of the bowl, I refused to wipe it. There are several departments that share these toilets though, so an email wouldn't have worked. Surely they must have seen the mess they left in their wake?? confused

LoveWine Wed 29-Jan-14 13:53:26

YABU to put this description in the thread title - I just had lunch!

Next time she says her womb has fallen out say to her "yes and most of it on the toilet seat" and pull a disgusted face....hopefully she will get the hint. If she doesn't just tell her to wipe the seat when she has finished!

Poppyhat Wed 29-Jan-14 13:55:10

Haha missmilbanke, I hope the op has the chance to use that :-)

SantasLittleMonkeyButler Wed 29-Jan-14 13:59:02

Yukk!

I like whatisaweekend's tactic.

How can you not look behind you when you stand up? Especially as her "womb is falling out" - I always check the loo's clean before I leave the cubicle anyway, but I double & treble check on the heavy days of a period!

Dirty mare indeed shock.

On another note, I wonder what her toilet at home looks like? Without you following her with the wet wipes confused.

charliezack Wed 29-Jan-14 14:00:58

Had the same problem years back one of the managers agreed to this as couldn't figure who was doing it, big A3 poster on the back of the loo door saying

"The bathroom fairy is fed up with cleaning up after messy staff and has gone back to neverland" underneath was a pic of a very annoyed fairy and a dirty loo

Didn't have any problems after that but i will admit to it being a bit juvenile

SantasLittleMonkeyButler Wed 29-Jan-14 14:00:59

Shame it's not December too, you could have given her a year's supply of toilet wipes as her secret santa gift wink.

WooWooOwl Wed 29-Jan-14 14:01:08

That is vile!

I'd be complaining to the boss and letting them deal with it.

mattsmadmum Wed 29-Jan-14 14:01:24

nasty!

ProfondoRosso Wed 29-Jan-14 14:03:16

YANBU. That is manky. I always wonder how other women manage to pee all over the seat as well. I thought we were better than that!

twinkletoedelephant Wed 29-Jan-14 14:03:31

Dh works for a large company where some men there stand on the toilet seat to poo covering the seat floor and occasionally the walls.....

I would speak to her she obviously has no issue discussing this

notso Wed 29-Jan-14 14:03:49

MrsMilbanke suggestion is brilliant and genuinely made me laugh out loud!

GarlicReturns Wed 29-Jan-14 14:04:26

I would ask her to wipe the seat when she leaves, yes.

As to 'disgusting' - hmm! Have you seen this thread in FWR?

SantasLittleMonkeyButler Wed 29-Jan-14 14:05:13

What twinkletoe, just WHAT?! shock

Is this some new sport - extreme shitting? Why the hell would anyone stand on the toilet seat. Some people are gross confused.

GarlicReturns Wed 29-Jan-14 14:07:41

They stand on the seat so they can crouch to poo (is a healthier method, supposedly, and normal in many countries.) The company should really install some 'hole in the floor' loos if they have a lot of workers doing this.

AngelaDaviesHair Wed 29-Jan-14 14:09:01

Get her in private and tell her straight.

If she keeps on doing it, get her in public and tell her straight.

Just be matter of fact about it-leave the loo clean, with no piss, shit, used lavatory paper or blood in evidence. That's basic. Anyone (not having a relevant disability) who cannot manage to do that should simply not leave the house.

SantasLittleMonkeyButler Wed 29-Jan-14 14:11:23

Oh right, they crouch. Sorry, I had images of them standing full height & pooing.

Yes, definitely hole in the floor type toilets needed. At least the one anyway.

HelloBoys Wed 29-Jan-14 14:13:35

well at least I know IANBU!

she is boss' best friend as well as his PA - but next time she does it (she hasn't done it for ooh 2 months) I will tell her and then if she doesn't sort it tell my boss.

does not help we are the only 2 women in the office and she's my bully there!

I think if it were the occasional time I would not mind so much but its almost every month, I swear. like clockwork.

HenriettaPie Wed 29-Jan-14 14:13:47

I had images of them standing up straight too! gringrin

angelos02 Wed 29-Jan-14 14:17:19

That is disgusting. How can she just leave it like that. Boak

TheresLotsOfFarmyardAnimals Wed 29-Jan-14 14:19:11

I would just send an e-mail, even if it just the two of you, titled polite notice and ask for people to check the toilet after they've used it to make sure that it remains clean.

We have this in our office with poo skids. Yuck.

AngelaDaviesHair Wed 29-Jan-14 14:20:16

Ok, she bullies you. So, is it is a dedicated ladies' loo that only the two of you use? Because if it is, then I suspect this may not be general weirdness but unpleasantness/harassment aimed at you.

In which case, saying nothing to her and next time it happens just asking boss to come and see it might be an option.

Topaz25 Wed 29-Jan-14 14:20:18

If she bullies you could she be doing it on purpose? Deliberately leaving the toilets in an unsanitary condition knowing you're the only other person who has to use them? She sounds nasty!

Topaz25 Wed 29-Jan-14 14:20:46

Sorry cross posted

HelloBoys Wed 29-Jan-14 14:21:10

angelos and all the rest - I've worked in many an office and never or rarely come across this. large offices too.

This excuse for a woman really takes the biscuit.

she is one of those constantly busy, tired women and if you're ill she has it worse. she has IBS etc and it's always worse than anyone elses then she'll be in work whinging liked a burned martyr. grin

She also saunters round the office in height of summer with strapless maxi dresses with NO BRA on and huge norkage. I pray that someone or she will one day trip on her hem and reveal her lack of brassiere!

oh and she's ALWAYS RIGHT - even had a sign up saying that - and I don't argue with her (a couple of times) but she's excellent at that and she is never wrong.

HelloBoys Wed 29-Jan-14 14:22:33

she left the blood on the toilet BEFORE the bullying.

but it almost seems like "I can do what I want".

she also nicks my Lurpak Lighter and I have to use her Sainsburys rubbish butter but then that's being a bit petty isn't it?!

Step.One - provate email "wpuld you mind....."

Step.Two - come out the loo and shout "Oi, Drippy Sue, get back in there and clean up after yourself!"

On a side.note - maybe she is pg? If that is true, you may have to quit as she sounds like she would be unbearable

Fakebook Wed 29-Jan-14 14:23:11

Ugh. Even wee would be slightly more acceptable...but blood? That's hazardous. You could potentially contract any kind of blood borne virus. You shouldn't have to clean her blood products! Let HR know or approach her yourself. Disgusting woman.

HelloBoys Wed 29-Jan-14 14:23:32

Angela and Topaz - I have thought of harassment though as she's done it afterwards.

I have never said anything what can I say but I think email is way to go and copy to my boss.

FlockOfTwats Wed 29-Jan-14 14:23:53

Eurgh. YADDDDDDDDDDDDDDNBU

I've heard some right toilet horror stories. One woman said a colleague did a dump in the middle of the floor, tampons and towels thrown on the floor etc, blood up the walls, on the back to the toilet.

WTF is wrong with some people?

HelloBoys Wed 29-Jan-14 14:24:41

Fakebook - she is now HR Manager herself (but a more inefficient and rubbish example of one I do not know!).

she is not pregnant is 53.

strangely enough I am now pregnant so maybe I should watch for blood snail trails....

hmc Wed 29-Jan-14 14:25:18

I'd go indirect - since you have to work with her.

I'd make a sign saying "Please clean the toilet seat after use", laminate it and stick it to the cubicle wall

AngelaDaviesHair Wed 29-Jan-14 14:28:11

Or, public notice as suggested, but approach the boss privately and say what the true issue is. Update the boss on whether the behaviour stops and if it doesn't ask the boss to deal with her.

I really think don't leave it-it is such an odd thing to do, almost as if this woman is saying she can be as outrageously unpleasant as she wants, yes even make you clean up her menstrual blood.

oscarwilde Wed 29-Jan-14 14:30:03

Urgh - I'd be tempted to add some laxatives to the lurpak and go on a diet. Won't improve the loo situation any but it will make you feel better.

Then ask if you can use the mens room for a bit as the ladies room has been left in a hazardous condition. Call out the cleaning company every time it happens.

HelloBoys Wed 29-Jan-14 14:30:41

hmc I just know she'd ignore it.

anything she does not want to do she won't do it. and will make up any excuse not to do it.

I think email is way to go and after that if she can't clean up I will just speak to my boss about it.

who knows she IS now using it to harass and its unhygienic.

HelloBoys Wed 29-Jan-14 14:31:52

oscar - so tempted to add something to what she eats...

hopefully I will be leaving soon depending on whether I return to work after ML, get a new job etc

frugalfuzzpig Wed 29-Jan-14 14:36:30

Yuck.

I have at least one very heavy bleed day with each period and I am incredibly careful if using public toilets (I am all the time anyway but particularly paranoid when on my period) there's no excuse not to leave it in the state you'd wish to find it.

A one off where you are distracted and forget, fair enough, but regularly... hmm

Solo Wed 29-Jan-14 14:38:03

When she next complains 'my womb is falling out' reply 'yes I know I can see you have left half of it behind on the seat for me to clear up!'

This is good!

Chivetalking Wed 29-Jan-14 14:43:47

If she's 53 and it hasn't happened for a couple of months with a bit of luck she's menopausal and the problem will have solved itself.

If not definitely get the boss onto the shameless minger's ass.

Fakebook Wed 29-Jan-14 14:47:35

You need to tell your boss that you're not cleaning the blood again. I'm pretty sure all health care related workers are vaccinated against Hep B before working with blood products. I was vaccinated when I was doing research in a safe lab environment. You're not safe. You're endangering yourself everytime you clean it. I'm suprised you've put up with it for this long.

ILoveDHIDo Wed 29-Jan-14 14:47:46

I had this same issue with an ex colleague. I used to clean up after her and got so fed up that I left it for others to see.. only for our manager to go in after me and telling me to "clean up after yourself for goodness sake!" I was mortified! so much so that I went to her desk and lambasted her (in front of everyone) to clean up her "disgusting period blood, you're 35 surely you've had years and years of practice?"

Awful reaction but I had had enough. She never did it again and my manager actually apologised to me.

Just tell her. Face to face humiliation is necessary when it comes to things like this.

ILoveDHIDo Wed 29-Jan-14 14:48:22

I had this same issue with an ex colleague. I used to clean up after her and got so fed up that I left it for others to see.. only for our manager to go in after me and telling me to "clean up after yourself for goodness sake!" I was mortified! so much so that I went to her desk and lambasted her (in front of everyone) to clean up her "disgusting period blood, you're 35 surely you've had years and years of practice?"

Awful reaction but I had had enough. She never did it again and my manager actually apologised to me.

Just tell her. Face to face humiliation is necessary when it comes to things like this.

pigletmania Wed 29-Jan-14 14:50:06

Good suggestion missmilkbank grin oh and that is envy.

pigletmania Wed 29-Jan-14 14:54:37

That is good ilovedh

Yep, that is just disgusting. You seriously need to send an email round. Maybe then she will feel humiliated enough to actually do something about it?

frugalfuzzpig Wed 29-Jan-14 15:04:03

I'd give her one chance in private to sort it (email) purely to retain the moral high ground but if she still did it again then I'd tell the boss and also every time it happens ask her loudly in great detail within earshot of as many people as possible. angry

I don't think period blood is disgusting but nobody should have to clean up somebody else's body fluid. If it was blood from a nosebleed or an kitchen accident would she leave that as well I wonder hmm

Nombrechanger Wed 29-Jan-14 15:04:55

Boakage galore..

Tell her that she needs to check the toilet before she leaves the cubicle because she's leaving blood everywhere.

I feel fucking ill. The dirty bihatch.

SadieWord Wed 29-Jan-14 15:10:24

We had this and other nasty toilet behaviour (putting shitty and pissy tissues in a bin - massive office lots of women)and I sent a ragey email round, complained to management on health and safety grounds.

We all ended up being presented with a leaflet on how to use the toilet.

If she is only other woman I'd get your boss to have a word with her about leaving the toilet as you would like to find it/ respect for others.

HelloBoys Wed 29-Jan-14 15:10:37

sorry but to someone who said period blood isn't disgusting OF COURSE IT IS!

It is not generally but someone else's blood which YOU KNOW isn't from a bleeding finger?!

BOAK in extreme.

ILoveDH - thank god its not me I was beginning to wonder

HelloBoys Wed 29-Jan-14 15:13:41

sorry frugal - this woman gets my goat anyway.

I dread to think what happens when other blood etc happens. She lives with her DH, teenage son, other adult son and his DF and their 2 year old. God only knows what she does if blood etc happens and I do not want to know.

and her house is like a show home generally. because I've been there when we were loved up and she didn't bully me

GarlicReturns Wed 29-Jan-14 15:14:06

YY, I'd say something to her & her boss together. It's really tempting to be smart-arse, but a Good Person would probably approach it from a 'this is awkward, but ...' angle.

Private messages, etc, aren't going to work because she obviously knows she's doing it.

BumPotato Wed 29-Jan-14 15:17:56

What if there was a visitor to the office who used the loo? They might think it was you :-o

LucieLucie Wed 29-Jan-14 21:02:57

Dirty coo.

Laminate a notice on the toilet door "please check the toilet seat is clean before leaving" along with a packet of Dettol wipes on the cistern.

Non confrontational but effective.

Muddlewitch Wed 29-Jan-14 21:18:38

Next time I think you should rush out of the toilet shouting "Someone's been murdered in there, there's blood everywhere!" and then faint. That should get the message across.

pretty nasty. i get hugely heavy periods (TMI!) so always make sure I check for things like this. bleurgh.

HelloBoys Wed 29-Jan-14 21:22:11

Lol muddle witch grin

frugalfuzzpig Wed 29-Jan-14 22:02:23

Muddlewitch that's GENIUS grin

Alisvolatpropiis Wed 29-Jan-14 22:27:58

This is just unpleasant.

My office has a phantom pooer who visits the ladies. Well, I thought it was just the one but over the last year I have realised it could be any woman who isn't me, as I'm the only one who doesn't poo whilst a work.

There are some grim toilet habits knocking around.

HelloBoys Wed 29-Jan-14 22:42:06

alisvol I think with the amount of blood she leaves my colleague does know about this.

However as a character she's v much "don't care, I'm a woman had 5 kids etc" and very upfront about that. She seems immensely proud of being a mum (nothing wrong with that) but also that she still "gets periods" at 53.

If I did bring this up with her in person I know she'd either:-

A) deny it
B) give me the 'astonished look' eg can't I wipe up after her or why am I making a fuss over it?!

I'm deadly serious re above!

I think I'll mention it to my boss and threaten idk enviro services if she does not stop.

However when I had to look in her drawer for petty cash box the other day I noticed sanitary pads so she's most likely on.

She does have heavy periods and uses tampax (I always use Allways pads) does anyone think this maybe makes her less careful? And maybe if near menopause do you bleed more?

Koothrapanties Wed 29-Jan-14 23:03:14

How does this actually happen? I have heavy periods, but this has never happened to me. I sit straight down with my foof above the hole in the toilet seat, then once done stand straight up. My foof never touches the seat.

What does she do, sit on the edge then slide backwards or something? confused

koot drippage? sad

Koothrapanties Wed 29-Jan-14 23:09:10

Then why is it a smear not just a drip?

Either way, she sounds like a nasty piece of work. The fact that you think she might tell you to clean it up speaks volumes op.

sharonosaurus Wed 29-Jan-14 23:10:41

SantasLittleMonkeyButler Im laughing so much the bed is shaking, I also had visions of a full stand, with neck crooked a bit due to low ceilings grin

Catsize Wed 29-Jan-14 23:12:53

Next time she says 'my womb is falling out' or some such comment, you could reply...
'Oh, not again, I'd best get my wet wipes ready for the toilet seat again, as that is where your womb usually seems to land, but don't worry - I can rescue it and put it back in for you if you like. How about 15:30 ish? By the water machine?'.

Catsize Wed 29-Jan-14 23:16:22

Sorry Miss Milbanke, just saw you beat me to it with a similar posting.

frugalfuzzpig Wed 29-Jan-14 23:19:45

Maybe people stand on the loo seat because they want to flush themselves down to the Ministry of Magic HQ.

LadyHarrietdeSpook Wed 29-Jan-14 23:26:04

Laminated sign is what I'd go for if she's a bully. Could she pin it on you?

Do cleaners go in there? Cause I was dodo thinking you could send an email to your boss cc-ing her as his pa saying: we have a terrible problem in the loo xyz. Is it possible we could address this with the cleaners? It's really distressing. I mean - it's passive aggressive but small offices are terrible when you have to confront.

RandyRudolf Wed 29-Jan-14 23:29:34

We have a sign of the back of our loo doors because of dirty gits.

"We have to share these facilities. Please leave them as you would wish to find them"

Solo Wed 29-Jan-14 23:32:06

Sounds like she pulls out tampon and brings it out in front (to dispose of in bin?) and it drips. My SIL did it in my loo once (except she flushed it! angry), but it is a dark wood seat and genuinely don't think she realised. And yes, being perimenopausal can give you horrendously heavy periods sometimes three in a month! for you to look forward to!

BrandNewIggi Wed 29-Jan-14 23:37:29

Menstrual blood is not disgusting. She is however being thoughtless by not clearing up her own mess.

Solo Wed 29-Jan-14 23:39:14

It's not disgusting, but leaving it on a communal toilet seat is disgusting.

Dubjackeen Wed 29-Jan-14 23:46:14

I also had visions of a full stand, with neck crooked a bit due to low ceilings
Stop, I am cracking up laughing!
Back to OP, jeez, that is vile. Is there another toilet e.g on another floor that you could use, and let her wallow...

Caitlin17 Thu 30-Jan-14 01:01:24

I wouldn't send an e-mail. If she complained about it it could rebound on you as you bullying her. The laminated sign possibly but as she sounds verycodd and if it's only the 2 of you who use this lavatory I think I'd be wary of that also.

Sorry I think you might just have to resort to wipes and a packet of disposable latex gloves.

SamHamwidge Thu 30-Jan-14 01:17:37

IABVU I know but LMAO at this thread!

FootieOnTheTelly Thu 30-Jan-14 01:37:29

I'd use another loo. confused. If there isn't another loo then I would wait for it to happen then speak to her about it. Make sure she knows you are frustrated about it but I would be polite IYSWIM
I would ask her to go and clean it up.

I understand how it happens if she uses a Mooncup and there is no sink in the toilet cubicle but that doesn't mean she can't clean up afterwards.

YukKy

HelloBoys Thu 30-Jan-14 09:36:27

No other loo apart from the gents.

No she doesn't use a Mooncup.

She's one of these women who if she wants to can go into great detail about her IBS.

HelloBoys Thu 30-Jan-14 09:40:35

Kooth - the bullying side of her, well I don't KNOW if she would tell me to clean it up.

BUT I just know she'd come down on me like "You're making a fuss out of nothing HelloBoys".

And she has a huge sign in the office that says "The One Who is Always Right".

She will argue the toss about anything.

Hey ho next time this happens I will just mention it to her. She now works in an upstairs office (with no separate toilets) so it could be easy for me to say something, non confrontational.

If after me saying something it doesn't work then I will speak to boss, put up a sign and buy some wet wipes out of petty cash and leave in toilet.

canthelpbutthinktheworldismad Thu 30-Jan-14 13:14:11

that is grim!

starfishmummy Thu 30-Jan-14 13:26:23

If she is nearing the menopause she could be "flooding" but that doesn't excuse not cleaning it up.

But cleaning someone eless blood up is not something the OP should be doing. In my workplace this would mean calling in specialist cleaners to do so

starfishmummy Thu 30-Jan-14 13:26:51

And I can't spell

Onesleeptillwembley Thu 30-Jan-14 13:31:32

Frankly I'd tell her to go back in and clean it up. First time privately, if there is a second time it would be on front of HR or your immediate boss.

Onesleeptillwembley Thu 30-Jan-14 13:32:12

Forgot to add - filthy bitch!

HelloBoys Thu 30-Jan-14 13:36:19

yep OneSleep I'm doing this next time.

AFAIK she is not flooding or anything like that, she gets heavy periods but whether due to menopause I don't want to know.

If for whatever reason in my own house I drip blood I clear it up but then again that's cos it's only me! obvs she doesn't care or has an eyesight problem.

ginnybag Thu 30-Jan-14 13:43:22

It's technically a biohazard.

Blood is potentially infectious, so every time you use this toilet uncleaned/ clean this up, you are exposing yourself to HIV/Hep etc etc etc.

As the HR head, it wold be her job to tell you NOT to do this - because of the above. Your own blood is one thing. This is the blood of a stranger, in effect, and you don't know her health status, (nor is she required to disclose it) but there isn't an alternative facility for you to use, therefore, you are being asked to potentially compromise your health every time you use this facility.

It really needs more than just a wet-wipe tbh. Take a look at what schools/doctors surgeries have to do with a blood spill.

Flag the health issue to your manager. You don't have to name and shame, just - next time it happens - send 'someone has bled in the ladies bathroom, leaving blood on the toilet seat. As I know this was not me, could proper cleaning be arranged on health grounds, as this is from an unknown source and is therefore an infection risk.'

Hopefully, that'll prompt some action. If - God forbid - you did acquire an infection following you making Management aware of the issue with no result, the liability for the Company would potentially be huge! H&S requires the provision of suitable, sanitary facilities. These aren't.

Joysmum Thu 30-Jan-14 13:46:01

I'd not email, I'd just have a quiet word first asking her to pop back to the cubical.

FootieOnTheTelly Thu 30-Jan-14 17:01:02

I would not email either. confused

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