To think it's sad seeing women begging for proposals

(60 Posts)
Anonfornow00 Wed 29-Jan-14 12:33:46

I'm seeing so much of this lately, firstly a very successful beauty blogger I keep up with is forever putting up ring statuses with hint hint tagging her boyfriend. My good friend and all round amazing person sends her long term partner pictures of rings weekly and entering wedding competitions, another friend gave her long term partner an ultimatum so he proposed on Valentine's day. I've just seen another girl I know tagging her partner in a picture about how great women are (you know, she carried your children, she makes a house a home etc) and tagged her partner saying how her finger feels empty.

Is it just me or is this fucking crazy? If they want to get engaged so desperately why don't they ask themselves?

It just seems really desperate and everyone around being so aware, when they eventually do pop the question is just feels like they've been broken down.

Waitingforflo Wed 29-Jan-14 12:36:22

It's certainly pathetic.

Just wait for Valentine's Day though when, otherwise sensible women forget that they are actually allowed to buy flowers for themselves any time of the year . . .

yanbu. It's embarrassing, either you are an equal in your relationship and discuss it together.. or you are waiting for prince charming to ask you to marry him. But telling him to ask you defeats the point surely?

Either ask yourself or shut up

Are you married OP?

I think this post is a little unkind. I agree with the point you're making but it feels a little sneery. It's like "look at how pathetic she is".

Anonfornow00 Wed 29-Jan-14 12:41:28

And what I find so hard to comprehend is the women in question really ARE amazing and actually the potential husband's in these cases are definitely not so!
It's really weird to see such together woman acting so foolish.
I'd get no joy from twisting someone's arm into asking me to marry him but this seems to be very much the norm!

I'm married, we discussed it. We are both adults, we are both equals.

TheListingAttic Wed 29-Jan-14 12:43:06

I just don't GET this. At all. Surely, by the time you're ready to commit to married life together, you might have, you know, mentioned it a few times between yourselves already? You might have both expressed that this is where you see it heading? You might be secure enough in the relationship to know that the other person feels the same? And then whether one of you specifically asks, or you just sort of decide between yourselves, you make it official.

This 'thing' about a man getting down on bended knee to pop the question like it's a surprise that you'll get all giddily thrilled about...it's just WEIRD.

Anonfornow00 Wed 29-Jan-14 12:43:13

No I'm not married patience, in fact I'm single but no I'm not jealous I'm such surprised that otherwise normal dignified woman can go on like this!

MonsterMunchMe Wed 29-Jan-14 12:45:41

One of my good friends did this. She is far too good for him and it was embarrassing to watch. He was just so....resistant.

Now they are married, had a big white wedding that cost £££££££ and she's miserable, he just does not care.

I think intelligent women making public hint hint type displays brings us all down. Makes women look less important in relationships and marriage hungry

Damnautocorrect Wed 29-Jan-14 12:46:05

I couldn't agree more, I was at a wedding and a woman on the same table was going on and on and on. It was was awkward and embarrassing

Only1scoop Wed 29-Jan-14 12:48:27

Yanbu ....makes me cringe
Could never imagine having to bamboozle the love of my life to Marry me.

I think hinting in private is fine. More fine, actually, than hanging around never broaching the subject until a good number of your fertile years have gone and you suddenly discover you were Ms Right Now.

Broaching it in public is very embarrassing for all concerned...

MabelSideswipe Wed 29-Jan-14 12:50:49

I asked my DH to marry me and when I have told female friends this its really common for them to say that they would never do that as they could never be sure their partners really said yes for the right reason and also they would not feel as 'wanted'.

I suppose it would have been nice to have an out of the blue romantic proposal but I went with the moment I was pissed.

Waitingforflo Wed 29-Jan-14 12:51:11

But it IS pathetic Patience.

If you're in a relationship, you discuss it - you don't sit around waiting for a Disney moment, or, indeed, fabricate one.

hippoesque Wed 29-Jan-14 12:53:25

Whilst I can see your point you must realise that sometimes a man will stick his own heels in and do it when HE is ready and the reaction to that is to keep banging on about it because she is ready and has been for bloody years (obviously a hypothetical opinion smile)
FWIW I am still waiting for my darling boyfriend to do it but definitely wouldn't put it out there for the world of social media to see. I'd never live it down!

Anonfornow00 Wed 29-Jan-14 12:55:24

longtall why would it be embarrassing though? I don't mean in the early stages by the way grin
But I definitely agree to not wasting fertile years I've seen many women do this only for the man to up and leave and have children with someone else!
I just think you should be able to discuss these things frankly with the person you're considering spending the rest of your life with!

Fair play to you Mabel! It's mad, we fight so hard to be equal and it's sickening to watch people throw it away like little school girls asking for a pony!

BlueStones Wed 29-Jan-14 12:56:54

Agree; this behaviour simply puts all the power in male hands (just for a change hmm. I don't get it.

DitaVonCreamTeas Wed 29-Jan-14 13:00:44

It makes me cringe.

Like MabelSwideswipe I asked DH. The idea that you should wait for the man to ask 'because otherwise you won't know if he really loves you' makes me feel a bit ill.

TheListingAttic Wed 29-Jan-14 13:01:56

hippoesque
But why are you waiting? Have neither of you ever expressed any interest in staying together for the long haul and making it official? I can see that someone (man or woman) might dig their heels in if they're feeling pressured into doing it by a deadline or in a certain way. But why is the pressure necessary? I wouldn't want to marry someone who I wasn't sure of, who hadn't indicated that this was where they saw things heading, and who I couldn't calmly and reasonably express the same to without seeming like I was badgering them.

Not having a pop, just from your post I still don't really understand how these sorts of situations happen!

FloweryFeatureWall Wed 29-Jan-14 13:03:03

I think it's embarrassing. I wouldn't be happy getting married knowing I'd had to pressure the man into it. Wouldn't you always wonder if he actually really wanted to?

McFox Wed 29-Jan-14 13:05:10

It's totally embarrassing, it makes me cringe.

One of my close friends has been harping on at her bf to get engaged for 3/4 years. It nearly split them up on a few occasions. When things were good, and they were happy anyway, I just don't understand why she made an issue out.

She was devastated when we got married, engaged and pregnant before they were engaged, like there's some kind of timescale that everyone should be sticking too!

I can understand the desire to get married, but I'd rather discuss it with my partner and make an equal decision, not wait for an over the top proposal driven by moaning and arguments!

Anonfornow00 Wed 29-Jan-14 13:12:36

McFox my friend was exactly the same when I was with my ex, they were together a year or two longer than us and every little "milestone" like moving in together etc she would comment on how unfair it was. I thought this was crazy! But now I'm single and she's engaged so things can change in an instant but she's no happier though which is really sad and he still won't move in with her!

I wasn't assuming you were jealous but thought you might be a smug married sneering at insecure women.

Yes it's a shame they feel they have to do this. Maybe they see all their peers getting married and really want the same for their relationship but it's obviously not forthcoming. Maybe they're feeling panicky. People aren't perfect and don't always go about things the right way, I can certainly empathise with that.

For info, I am not married - but we plan to be in the near future, no hinting involved.

Pigeonhouse Wed 29-Jan-14 13:16:14

It's deeply cringeworthy, as is the desperate hoping for a stage-managed Disney moment - solitaire, hot air balloon over the Eiffel Tower/at sunset in the Maldives/down on one knee in a flower meadow/whatever you're having yourself.

Agreeing with all those who are genuinely baffled by the longterm, often cohabiting couples who are already obviously mutually committed to a future together and have discussed marriage and plan to do it, where the woman then comes on Mn wailing that her partner didn't propose to her on Valentine's Day, and how she wants to be engaged! Woman, you are already engaged. You were engaged from the day you and your SO talked about marriage. Why is he supposed to ask you after the event? Do you think he thought you didn't mean it first time around?

Or is because you have to be 'whisked' off somewhere to get engaged? As if you were some eggwhite in a bowl???

claraschu Wed 29-Jan-14 13:18:24

I knew we were going to get married. I never said anything, hinted or mentioned marriage to him or to anyone else. In the end my husband was the one who proposed, and it was a very romantic surprise, and a very special moment. Maybe it is a bit sappy that we didn't just discuss marriage and agree on it, but I thought he would like to actually propose at some point. It doesn't mean that we are not equals, or that I am oppressed by the patriarchy; it is just a tradition. I am the least girly woman I know, and I detest sexist stereotypes.

I don't understand it.

Me and DP lived together. When we first met we spoke about everything drunkenly like you do at the start of a relationship and I told him I never wanted to get married. I was 21 so marriage wasn't something I was thinking about.

A few years later I realised that being with DP had changed my mind and so I told him that. We had a discussion and then we were engaged. I don't see why people can't just talk about these things.

tattychicken Wed 29-Jan-14 13:25:20

I had the conversation with DH, eg we're in our late 20's, living together, marriage and children are important to me, if it's not to you then that's fine but you need to let me know. I thought it was important to make my feelings clear. And yes, he did propose 6 months later.

Begging and dropping hints is humiliating but talking about it is sensible IMO.

FudgefaceMcZ Wed 29-Jan-14 13:27:17

I think it's sad, but not that the women are sad, more that it's very cruel that society treats women who want committed relationships as sad, desperate creeps, while treating women who don't want them as mentally unstable 'cold' weirdos. Hardly surprising that these women don't want to ask themselves when if they do they'll be called bunny boilers or whatever, and if they just sit about and don't get married they'll have people bitching at them for being doormats or failing at the Tory Family Ideal, and if they dump the man and find someone who is actually bothered about commitment, they will be called heartless etc etc. You really can't win if you're born with X chromosomes, and yes, that is extremely fucking sad. I don't think there's something wrong with wanting men to actually act like adults and either commit to the person they're with or fuck off if they aren't so she can find someone better, but the majority view seems to be that men should get to define all relationships, so they can fanny around as long as they like, the woman can't be 'needy' by saying she wants more security, and he can wait until he finds someone else before dumping her, but she's still the sad, desperate one, not him.

Objection Wed 29-Jan-14 13:28:49

I don't see what the big deal about being married is personally. I've been with OH for 3 and a half years, we own a house, have a dog and a cat and will be planning a baby reasonably soon.

I'd like to get married for the legal benefits and to celebrate our relationship formally.
I'm also looking forward to the presents.

He can ask me in his own time until then - whatever. I get to keep my awesome surname for a little longer grin

I question the women's priorities and true happiness when they are desperate for a proposal - what are they trying to compensate for?

**disclaimer - I know that women can ask men and I know I don't have to take my OHs name, but I will anyway.

nickymanchester Wed 29-Jan-14 13:29:42

Don't want to derail the thread but what exactly is ''tagging'' ?

FudgefaceMcZ Wed 29-Jan-14 13:30:15

"Agreeing with all those who are genuinely baffled by the longterm, often cohabiting couples who are already obviously mutually committed to a future together and have discussed marriage and plan to do it"

That's not baffling at all. The man could go off at any time, leaving the woman possibly pregnant or ill or anything, and he would suffer no social stigma at all. My ex and I had discussed a permanent relationship, agreed that we wanted children etc etc. His friends still thought it was perfectly fine for him to dump me a couple of weeks into a pregnancy we didn't know about at the time, and take up with a 19 year old. How is it then baffling when women don't feel secure, seeing as we aren't, and have no legal protection or rights to support unless we have a stupid bit of paper?

LessMissAbs Wed 29-Jan-14 13:30:18

YANBU, its pathetic, demeaning, and probably quite off putting too I should imagine!

CoffeeTea103 Wed 29-Jan-14 13:32:35

Yanbu, it is pathetic. If you're resorting to this type of desperately embarrassing behaviour then you should question if this person has any intention of being with you long term.

JayEmm Wed 29-Jan-14 13:37:11

I agree with FudgefaceMcZ. Nicely put.

45redballoons Wed 29-Jan-14 13:39:47

We have discussed marriage a lot. We both say things like 'when we get maried we will do this...' so I know he feels the same way I do. I don't know why I need to get married when we are fully committed, I just do. I would however, never publically humiliate him into proposing, we are going through circumstances that mean a wedding wouldn't be any time soon, we are both concentrating on other things, I would rather think about a marriage when our minds are in a better place, and sorry to say, I will be excited when he pops the question. I can't rationalise it, but I won't feel bad about it.

Topaz25 Wed 29-Jan-14 13:43:17

NickyManchester
Tagging is a way of linking someone to your post on social media so they will see it.

chipshop Wed 29-Jan-14 13:47:03

I wonder how common this is. Several of the wives of DP's mates gave their partners an ultimatum or deadline. I know this because DP had anguished calls and drinks with said mates saying they were not sure if they could go through with it. One actually called him when he was in the kitchen, whispering he knew he had to go into the lounge and do it or he'd be dumped but he really didn't want to. The wives have told me romantic proposal stories which I know aren't true. Ridiculous!

I certainly won't be begging for a proposal but now we live together our families and friends have decided we should get married and it's really annoying. Weddings are a nightmare, we get harangued all day and if we go on holiday everyone gets excited.

ercolercol Wed 29-Jan-14 13:56:14

YY YANBU I got married 10 years ago after dh and I had a long drunken conversation and decided to get married. He didn't propose. I didn't realise how weird this was. I didn't have an engagement ring as didn't see the point, luckily lovely MIL gave me one of hers grin.

I think it is strange to wait to be 'asked'. How can your relationship be equal if you can't say 'Let's get married'?

we are now are married, have a joint account, do 50/50 childcare and housework, I kept my name, tho the dcs have dh's. In 2014 I thought that would be the norm. Reading mn it doesn't appear so.

Or is because you have to be 'whisked' off somewhere to get engaged? As if you were some eggwhite in a bowl???

I am stealing this. I own it now.

That's not baffling at all. The man could go off at any time, leaving the woman possibly pregnant or ill or anything, and he would suffer no social stigma at all. My ex and I had discussed a permanent relationship, agreed that we wanted children etc etc. His friends still thought it was perfectly fine for him to dump me a couple of weeks into a pregnancy we didn't know about at the time, and take up with a 19 year old. How is it then baffling when women don't feel secure, seeing as we aren't, and have no legal protection or rights to support unless we have a stupid bit of paper?

NO, I can totally agree that someone might want the legal safety of marriage especially if they are planning children. It's the "proposal" and the "fairytale wedding" bollocks that goes along with it. I understand someone saying, look is this happening, because I have a limited amount of time and I don't want miss my chance to have kids".

Linking pictures of wedding dresses and rings.. it's just ick. The proposal is then forced and how does that "mean more" than if they discussed it together? Like grown ups.

hootloop Wed 29-Jan-14 14:04:26

I think its a bit odd to be honest, I was 17 when I asked my then boyfriend of 2 months to marry me, I knew I wanted to get married to him, I knew he'd never ask me. We married 8 months later and have been for 13 years.
I had a fairytale proposal from my ex the year before and that didn't end well to say the least.

Pigeonhouse Wed 29-Jan-14 14:06:44

Fudgeface, you are misunderstanding my post. I understand entirely why a woman may want to get married for reasons, including legal protection - I married while pregnant myself, as it seemed easier than drawing up a document that gave equivalent rights to us both - but not why a woman who is in a serious (or apparently serious) relationship where the marriage discussion has taken place does not then regard herself and her partner as engaged and simply go on and marry, rather than sit about dropping hints about St Valentine's Day and rings.

I'm very sorry that happened to you. I do think, though, that the sitting about and hoping for a proposal thing actually makes women more vulnerable than a general societal convention that a marriage is mutually agreed on, followed by said marriage. Because the 'waiting for a proposal' thing seems to potentially extend for years, through pregnancies and the births of children, through joint property decisions etc etc. (I'm not suggesting you did this, incidentally, but it doesn't seem to be considered particularly unusual for a woman who has had several children with someone to be still waiting for him to 'pop the question'.

FloweryFeatureWall Wed 29-Jan-14 14:10:28

It's not the wanting marriage that's embarrassing. It's the inability to talk about it and to instead hint with ring pictures and deep sighs and moaning about how lovely weddings are etc that's embarrassing.

Pigeonhouse Wed 29-Jan-14 14:11:08

Cross-posted with Please. Yes, that's what I meant. Having a child or children with someone makes all that fragile, girlish waiting about and hovering near jewellery shop windows before significant dates much more pernicious.

Please, consider the eggwhite yours. It features heavily in a magazine my mother buys (sort of low-rent Irish version of Hello) which has a wedding section in which a photo of the Happy Couple is accompanied by a little blurb which always says 'blah blah, met at work, blah blah, imagine her surprise when he whisked her off to Barbados/Venice/up a random mountain and went down on one knee etc etc'.

rabbitlady Wed 29-Jan-14 14:12:01

it annoys me. particularly when they've chosen to have sex with someone, move in with them, even have their children... all the time pretending they're too independent to want marriage... and then they whinge because there's no ring and no white dress.
well, if you'd wanted that you should have thought about it before you gave all your assets away for no return at all. was the sex worth it? because that was what you got.

I have several friends in this position and it is genuinely bizarre. My best friend was so distraught on my wedding day that I was getting married first despite having been with my DH 6 yrs less time that her and her boyfriend that she proceeded to get hideously drunk and cried at the end of the night saying she would die a spinster grinconfused

It's just weird. HAVE A CONVERSATION!!!!!

headoverheels Wed 29-Jan-14 14:17:11

YABU. I was dropping hints to DH for a good few months before he proposed. We'd been together nearly 5 years by then and I wanted to know one way or the other, but I knew he'd want to do the actual proposing himself.

We've been married for 10 happy years now and have 3 DC, if I forced him to marry me he's doing a good job of making the best of it!

hootloop Wed 29-Jan-14 14:17:30

A bit harsh rabbitlady
I am pretty sure people change their minds rather than pretend.

Waitingforflo Wed 29-Jan-14 14:20:31

'Gave your assets away' grin . . .

FloweryFeatureWall Wed 29-Jan-14 14:29:40

Assets? I lolled grin

KarmaVersusGeorgeOsbourne Wed 29-Jan-14 14:31:26

I don't understand either. When we realised that things were going to be 'serious', we discussed these things- marriage, kids, what we expected of each other and what we wanted. He asked me if I would like a 'surprise' romantic proposal, and I said no grin we ended up setting a date when we were washing the dishes one night

www.singleswarehouse.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/604-no-more-free-milk1.jpg

Really rabbit?
grin

Argh, Why can't I add pics to this thread???????

CarolineKnappShappey Wed 29-Jan-14 14:35:08

Because I wanted to be married before we had children I was keen for DH to propose. He had no idea about fertility declining so fast with age, and just assumed that you could get pregnant whenever you wanted. I did not want to wait around till He was ready and I was 40.

So pressure was applied. I wish I didn't but I couldn't help it. I loved him, we were happy, and we both wanted a family. But unlike women who think about these things and plan them, he just didn't realise that I didn't want to wait.

I did wait though, and he got there eventually, but it did cause some fights.

I do have sympathy for men though in this situation. Women have rightly proved that we can do anything men can do in the workplace, we are equal. Loads of young boys in their 20s date girls as ambitious and as hard working as them. Then the boys are shocked when the women say, "right, if we want a family, now'a the time to think about it."

DukeSilver Wed 29-Jan-14 14:42:20

It totally baffles me too. I imagine if I ever get married it will come about through a discussion.

To be fair though it isn't something I could ever understand because marriage isn't important to me, it's definitely not something I think it essential before children or to have a long happy life together. I always think there is something nice about couples that have been together for decades without feeling the need to get married.

^ I always think there is something nice about couples that have been together for decades without feeling the need to get married.^

I used to think that was a lot more romantic too... waking up and choosing to be with the person you were with not just staying because you are married.

But then I realized that people can get divorced, so everyday they wake up and choose to stay with that person they are still making that commitment. And that also wherever you move to whatever you do..marriage is a water tight contract. Dh and I have lived in 3 countries.
I don't need to speak to a lawyer everywhere we go when I want to make sure I am secure financially if he gets hit by a bus or that if something happened to me he is the legal father of our children etc. It's all good, maybe not super romantic but immensely practical grin

Waitingforflo Wed 29-Jan-14 14:50:13

^ I always think there is something nice about couples that have been together for decades without feeling the need to get married.^

I like this too smile.

hippoesque Wed 29-Jan-14 14:50:15

Thelistingattic. We have discussed it and we're getting married this year. He wants to propose though (men are just as funny as we are smile)

dontsqueezetheteabag Wed 29-Jan-14 14:50:23

Totally baffled also - I have very happy single friends but I have 2 friends in particular who were giving off the gagging to get married scent for ages. 1 of them recently got engaged (I was so happy for her) but NOONE likes her fiancee. he was caught by 2 separate people at my sisters wedding taking cocaine (people that did not even know him). He has previous convictions for dealing drugs in a nightclub, he goes to gamblers self help group.

She will just not see that side of him despite many mutual friends saying to her that they are worried about her and what he will bring her in the future.

She gave off that desparate scent for soooo long she would not give him up even if he was a serial killer.

Wait fot the right person - it happens, most of the time when you least expect it.

nickymanchester Wed 29-Jan-14 14:56:48

Thank you Topaz25

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