Ex threatening court, unborn baby

(144 Posts)
marleyandme2014 Thu 23-Jan-14 12:49:46

Posting here for more traffic as need so advice urgently.

Currently 40+6 and been having a slow early labour for 3 days now.

Last week or so (basically from my due date) my ex has been absolutely vile towards me - sending angry abusive text messages, telling me what a bad parent I'll be, how I'm mentally unstable (I'm not), how he will be taking me to court and he is going to show them what kind of person I really am.

I asked him why? I have not refused contact once the baby is born. I have said I won't be putting him on the birth cert initially and this is one of the reasons he will take me to court - to gain his 'rights'.

I am with my long term partner (ex was a fling during a break in my relationship - not proud of it but there you go). Ex is so angry, he is badmouthing me to anyone who will listen and has now started talking about turning my mum against me (which would never happen as we are very close).

I don't know what my first steps should be. I obviously am trying not to get too stressed because I don't want to cause problems with the birth, but I am so upset. This person is foreign and I'm scared he will get parental rights, then a passport and take her away from me.

marleyandme2014 Thu 23-Jan-14 12:51:10

I should say, the main reason for not putting his name on cert straight away is because he has hinted that he would take her away from me (to his home country).

WilsonFrickett Thu 23-Jan-14 12:54:42

I hope someone will be along to give you advice specifically wrt to the birth cert, which seems to be your most pressing issue. Meantime, ignore, ignore, ignore your Ex. Keep all texts and keep a diary of all contact, threats, etc.

He won't take you to court, he's just throwing his weight around. But even if he does, it won't get him anything more than you're prepared to give, and the fact he is bullying and threatening you will play against him.

Please, please try and put this from your mind - switch your phone off if poss, switch off your social media (except MN!) and try to relax. Is someone with you?

MimiSunshine Thu 23-Jan-14 12:55:42

He's just blustering. Text him back and say "if you continue to send these messages I will report you to the police for harassment" then ignore. For now though, buy a sim only card and give everyone else your new number then you don't need to see any further messages from him.

Text him from your original number when baby arrives to let him know and arrange a visit (I'd suggest your mum rather than DP is there - no need to antagonise him). But make sure you let the hospital know he's not allowed in.
He never needs to know he doesn't have your main number and you can deal with his drama when you are feeling up to it.

ovenbun Thu 23-Jan-14 12:56:24

please ring your phone company and block him from your phone, ask a relative or friend to be a point of contact between you both. then explain that if he continues this behaviour you will be contacting the police because it is harassment, save the texts for court.

he is probably being all mouth and no trousers.

marleyandme2014 Thu 23-Jan-14 12:59:02

Hi Wilson,
Thanks for your reply. My mum has been here most of today but gone now as I needed a bath to ease these contractions.
What do you mean that he won't get more than I'm prepared to give? He seems to think if he paints me as an unstable bad person / mother then he will be given whatever he wants. He thinks he is being clever making false accusations about me and my partner via texts.

MinesAPintOfTea Thu 23-Jan-14 13:01:57

May I point out

myrubberduck Thu 23-Jan-14 13:02:57

please please please have a look at the Home Office website which has very good advice about preventative steps that you cant take to make it harder for someone to abduct a child and take him/her abroad. Do not permit him to have unsupervised contact until you have done this and TBH I would not let him have any kind of contact with the child at all if he has made this kind of threat.

MinesAPintOfTea Thu 23-Jan-14 13:03:15

That the court will be able to be told who was sending who threatening messages.

And get the passport fast as you can, the baby can only have one.

Asheth Thu 23-Jan-14 13:05:29

Keep those texts - a good father does not harass and threaton the mother of their child when she's pregnant/in labour (or any other time but those times seem particularly bad) So the only person he'll be painting in a bad light is himself.

Chunderella Thu 23-Jan-14 13:13:22

Oh marley, I remember your last thread and was hoping things had calmed down by now.

First of all, good luck with the birth. Does your midwife know what's happening? You might want to tell her. She will be really unhappy that you're having this stress and threats heaped on you in labour, and I would say your care providers may be better able to help you through the birth if they know what you're having to deal with.

Secondly, as discussed on the last thread DO NOT PUT HIM ON THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, AT ALL, EVER, WHATEVER HE SAYS, DO NOT DO IT. He will have to apply to court if he wants parental responsibility, as you aren't married, and shit like this will make it less likely. Obviously keep the texts. If he has threatened to remove the baby to his home country, report it to the police. You can apply to the court for a Prohibited Steps Order to prevent this if necessary, though he would need PR to remove the child anyway.

Thirdly, I would never normally tell a woman how to feed her child, because that would make me a cunt, but you might like to know that a bf baby is not going to be removed from her only source of nourishment. I'm not saying an ff one would be likely to either, but if you're open to either feeding method, just be aware that ebf will be more advantageous for you in terms of minimising contact. Just something to consider.

IAmNotAMindReader Thu 23-Jan-14 13:21:48

Keep all the texts and ring 101 and report him as harassing and threatening you and threatening to abduct your child when its born. Show them the proof of this and visit a solicitor to make sure you legally have all the protection in place should he actually try anything. Its unlikely but if you have the preventative steps in place before he makes a move it makes things run a lot smoother if he ever does.

marleyandme2014 Thu 23-Jan-14 13:22:06

Thanks everyone for your replies.

I will get a new phone number ASAP - I have just had another vile text from him even after I basically pleased with him to leave me alone and not cause me stress.

Thanks Chunderella - unfortunately things are just getting worse. He seems to have worked himself up into such a frenzy, the things he comes out with are unbelievable.

I will be breast feeding (hopefully) and I do feel some comfort that she can't be taken away from me during that time for extended contact visits etc.

I have kept all of his text threats. He does have a way of twisting things to make it seem like I am the one in the wrong, but hopefully the courts will be able to see through that.

He has been clever enough not to put his threat of taking the baby out of the country in writing - so it would be my word / his future actions basically. Would they take this seriously anyway do you think?

Chunderella Thu 23-Jan-14 13:26:28

Yes, potentially. It's also a good idea to have some 'official' record of them too, so do mention to your MW or GP if you've not already. You want to think about being able to demonstrate all this in a court, if it comes to it.

Pigsmummy Thu 23-Jan-14 13:27:29

Ask him to stop sending you abusive messages, turn off phone and concentrate on your baby and birth. All this noise can wait. Keep the messages.

Make sure that the hospital reception staff and midwife staff know not to let this man contact you or access you during labour.

IAmNotAMindReader Thu 23-Jan-14 13:27:33

Along with the other texts to back up his attitude they should do. Don't respond and he will spin further out and eventually trip himself up.

Sadoldbag Thu 23-Jan-14 13:29:45

Personally do not put him on the brith certificate
Also let him take you to court lol

1- he won't be able to take you to court he will have to go to mediation and they decided if he will get leave to go to court which in its self can take some months and is not cheap about £200

2- then if he gets leave to go to court which he won't mediators have been told to keep all custody contact cases out of court but if he dose he WILl not get legal aid so I will have to foot the bill himself these things coat thousands so unless he's got a spare 6k lying about then he won't have a chance

WilsonFrickett Thu 23-Jan-14 13:38:16

Because sweetheart, if he rocks up at a court and say 'I want residency, or 50:50 care, or three days a week, or whatever' of a newborn baby, they will not say 'oh, OK then.' It's not in the best interests of the child. He thinks he holds all the cards and he does not. At all. That's all in his head. Newborns have to spend 99% of their time with their mother especially if you ebf

In time, yes, when a child's needs can be met by another caregiver time spent away from the mother can be extended. But not if the other person in this equation has form for bullying and intimidation.

Do what you're doing, continue to offer supervised contact post-birth, keep the texts, keep records of contact offered vs how often he turned up for it, speak to your community MW about his threats (official records) do not put him on the birth certificate, get a passport as soon as you can and keep it somewhere safe. And be calm. He is trying to intimidate you but he has nothing.

NynaevesSister Thu 23-Jan-14 13:38:56

I may have said this on the other thread. Keep a log of every phone call and incident as it happens. Keep the texts etc and have them printed.

If he takes you to court, and I would be surprised if he does, he can say what he likes but thd judge won't have a bit of it without proof. The judge will be willing to accept anything that was clearly written at the time. Which is why I suggest keeping a log in your own hand.

Do not give him unsupervised access until you are absolutely forced too.

Do give him access or the opportunity for access but be specific.

A friend was taken to court by her Ex on the basis that she was refusing access to his child. When the Judge found out that she provided access every Sunday for him and every Weds eve he ripped the ex a new one and threw the case out.

I'm no suggesting you should be even that accommodating but if you have made clear provision for him to see the baby on multiple occasions, he will have to justify to the court why he didn't take these up.

He will look like a raving mad twat.

WilsonFrickett Thu 23-Jan-14 13:41:00

He seems to think if he paints me as an unstable bad person / mother then he will be given whatever he wants.

That's what he thinks. It is not true, though.

Please go for your bath and try and relax. Sounds like you could be on your way? Can we post some nice things about the baby, would that make you feel more relaxed <genuine question> or are you going to put the MN down for a bit?

nennypops Thu 23-Jan-14 13:42:23

I recall from the other thread he said he would not pay maintenance, or if he did, only on the basis that the money would go into an account only he would have access to. Do make sure you get onto the Child Support people so they can deal with this. If he starts demanding parental rights without paying maintenance, the courts won't be impressed.

MrsGarlic Thu 23-Jan-14 13:45:15

Oh gosh, I think I remember a previous post of yours on this topic. Sounds absolutely terrifying.

He sounds like he is just trying to intimidate you. Not what you need right now!

I know you know he is the father, but for all he knows, he might not even be!

Shitehawke Thu 23-Jan-14 13:50:08

Can your partner adopt the baby? Might put a stop to future drama if you can swing it???

Shitehawke Thu 23-Jan-14 13:52:05

Oh MrsGarlic, I am glad you said it! I've been biting my tongue! Can't you refuse DNA?

Chunderella Thu 23-Jan-14 13:59:03

She can refuse DNA now, but a court can order it. However, it's expensive to apply for contact, PR etc and it also usually takes several months to get a hearing date. During this time, the baby will stay with her. If and when there is a hearing, his threats will need to be discussed. I would argue that his behaviour now constitutes domestic violence, as he has been abusive and threatening.

Chunderella Thu 23-Jan-14 14:00:38

Incidentally, what country is he from? The reason I ask is to find out if it's a Hague Convention signatory or not.

MonsterMunchMe Thu 23-Jan-14 14:08:10

As all pp have said.

Change your number, only turn the phone on/off to text him.
Report to police for harassment
Save all texts
Do not ever ever ever put him on the birth cert.
get a passport ASAP
Tell the hosp he is not allowed in
Breast feed as long as you possibly can.

I woman I worked with was in a scarily similar situation to yours.......so she put her new DP (they got together while she was pregnant) on the birth cert. morally questionable an wrong yes. But the DP has and is raising the DD as his own. And it was another block in the road for the crazy ex.

Legoinmyfoot Thu 23-Jan-14 14:14:30

Perhaps I'm being a dunce here, I have no experience of anything like this, but.. Could the op, if she were so inclined, simply cut this man out of her life? He can't prove he is the father, it's his word against hers. She doesn't have to put him on the birth certificate and they're not married. He has no rights. Would he even be taken seriously if he tried to gain any kind of custody?

bumbumsmummy Thu 23-Jan-14 14:14:46

So sorry you are going through this concentrate on giving birth and try not to let this detract from what's going to be wonderful moment in your life

Once you feel strong enough I'd report him to the police

marleyandme2014 Thu 23-Jan-14 14:19:03

Again thank you to everyone who has posted, your comments are helping me feel stronger. I will read and re read all the advice here.

I am due to see the midwife later this afternoon so I will tell her what has been going on with regards to threats etc.

He and his family are from Turkey, and a number of family members live in Cyprus.

Alisvolatpropiis Thu 23-Jan-14 14:21:30

I remember your other thread.

As others have said, absolutely do not put him on the birth certificate.

Report the abusive texts to the police.

What kind of phone do you have? I know on some phones, including iPhones and samsungs you can just block a person from being able to contact you without having to go through the rigmarole of changing your own number

summertimeandthelivingiseasy Thu 23-Jan-14 14:23:23

Do not have any contact

Keep his abusive texts as evidence

Do not acknowledge him as the father of the child in any way to anyone - say that you are unsure as to whether the father is him or DP, DP willing.

Do not put him on birth certificate.

Get married

I cannot see anything to be gained by having him in the baby's life.

marleyandme2014 Thu 23-Jan-14 14:23:41

Hi Alis - I have an iPhone - if I could block him for the time being that would be great!

BrandybuckCurdlesnoot Thu 23-Jan-14 14:25:53

Lego - should the OP be able to cut this man out of his child's life? He is the father. He shouldn't be threatening or being aggressive towards his child's mother but he is that child's other parent. You can't pick or choose when men should be held responsible for bringing a life into this world.

Shitehawk - the OP can refuse DNA but he can go to court and get a test ordered. The OP will look extremely unreasonable if it turns out she lied about him not being the father just to try and get him off her back. She needs to deal with this properly, not by lying to the Dad. They both conceived this baby and are both responsible.

Marley, you don't need all this stress right now. Do what you can to minimise it. Send one last message to him saying you will inform him when the baby is born. Turn off your phone. Change numbers as soon as you can. Definitely speak to your midwife about what is happening, if just for some extra support.

Alisvolatpropiis Thu 23-Jan-14 14:29:53

marley

If you go into your contracts and select him as if you were going to edit the number, "block this caller" should be the last option.

You can unblock at anytime. If you don't have the option you may need to update the operating system first but that will take only a few minutes and will give you some much needed peace!

Alisvolatpropiis Thu 23-Jan-14 14:30:11

*contacts even.

ChasedByBees Thu 23-Jan-14 14:32:51

You've had such good advice from everyone here. Please try not to worry about him right now - just concentrate on that baby coming out to meet you. thanks

Whilst it probably doesn't feel like it right now, he is probably making your life easier in the long run. He is giving you a nice body of evidence that he is unreasonable and abusive. To be sending aggressive and abusive texts to someone on the verge of giving birth is not the behaviour of a reasonable and caring parent.

If you can bear it I would let him rant and rave and keep a record of it all. The only person it reflects badly on is him.

MiscellaneousAssortment Thu 23-Jan-14 14:39:59

Hello there OP, I had been wondering if you'd had your baby yet.

I haven't read the second page yet but just wanted to say, of he's threatening you and scaring/ upsetting you whilst you're in labour, I'd call the police to go warn him off. What a selfish nasty cruel man flowers

Then concentrate on yourself and your baby.

After the birth:

1. Register your babies birth as soon as you are able, and do it quietly so he can't find out you're going to the registrars and turn up and make a fuss. Obviously don't put him on the bc. As I said on the other thread, don't put someone you don't trust in a position of trust, or power over a child or yourself
2. Send off for baby's passport soon after that. If she/ he already has one and it's safe with you (hidden), then he can't apply for another or take abroad
3. Email/ text him to clarify in writing that you are not stopping him having a relationship with his child. This will help you to have it in writing just in case
4. Put fingers in ears and ignore ignore ignore. He cannot take you to court for no reason other than punishing you. He's being a shit.

I'm so sorry you're going through this right now. What a bastard. Try to clear your mind and heart of his threats and bullying. What's important right now is you and your baby. Xxx

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 23-Jan-14 15:33:37

After the baby is born you have 6 weeks to register that gives you 6 weeks to get hitched

Viviennemary Thu 23-Jan-14 15:40:02

Log each text. Block him from your phone. And if the harassment continues I'd seek legal advice or inform the police. Get in first with this especially if you suspect he will be causing trouble later. As far as I know he has no right to be on the birth certificate in your present circumstances.

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 23-Jan-14 15:43:21

I wouldn't block the phone as the longer he sends the nasty texts the more evidence you have and most of them slip up after awhile and text the unspoken threats,just put the sim in a £10 handset get a new sim for your phone and shove the one he contacts you on silent in a drawer.

caruthers Thu 23-Jan-14 16:01:14

Of course you should recognise him as the father of your child because that's what he is.

As for harassing you specially at this time he sounds an absolute idiot and if he continues i'd involve the police it's just not right.

When the baby comes and he contacts you and his civil and not threatening then it would be fair to allow contact (The threat that he would take the child i'd take seriously so supervised visits would be an option for you).

Good luck op.

TheBigJessie Thu 23-Jan-14 16:09:54

I agree with sockreturnimgpixie. He's giving you loads of evidence against him. Don't block the texts- they're practically a gift-basket with gift-wrap and extra pineapple and kumquats.

jacks365 Thu 23-Jan-14 16:12:39

Hope all goes well with the birth marley.

Let him dig himself a big hole it'll collapse on him eventually. Years ago a person I know made the sort of threats he has though in this case it was the mother saying she'd do anything to stop the father having contact. She threw all sorts of accusations around but she lost out in the end. He says he'll paint you as an unfit mother but he can't unless you are and I doubt that. Ignore his tgreats and completely disengage from any conversation. Send a factual text when your child is born including a photo and full details. If he requests contact reasonably then arrange it to take place at your nearest sure start centre and take a third party with you for moral support. Doesn't really need repeating but don't put on birth certificate but also don't deny he is the father either and as soon as possible apply via csa for maintenance. He can rant as much as he likes he is just trying to intimidate you into doing things his way but you don't have to. I would be surprised if he even tried the court route he is trying to intimidate you because he knows he'd have little chance any other way.

Most importantly remember we are always here for you.

WooWooOwl Thu 23-Jan-14 16:13:41

To be fair to him, if someone told me I couldn't be named on my child's birth certificate I might not behave particularly well either.

You have no right to stop your child having his/her biological father named on the birth certificate, and you have no right to stop this man being a father to his child.

Shitehawke Thu 23-Jan-14 16:24:54

Its not illegal to not put a man who you dont really know is the father on it. Besides, this precious moral high ground mumsnet obsess over is going to be pretty bleak if op loses her baby to a man who does a runner. Fuck his rights. Protect your self and your baby op.

caruthers Thu 23-Jan-14 16:33:02

She does know he's the father.

NinjaBunny Thu 23-Jan-14 16:49:41

Texting you vile messages?

Go to the police, report the messages and harassment. Let them deal with it.

Then change your number. Give you ex your partner's number and say he can contact you through your partner if he needs to.

Are you married? If you're not I'm pretty sure he has no rights and I wouldn't let someone who was abusive towards me near my child.

My ex was like your ex. I told him to contact me through a friend and changed my number. If he can't be civil to you then he can't have contact with you. Simples.

Cut him out. It's harsh, but he's brought it on himself.

You can't be a new mum with that kind of shit going on around you. Break contact for now and contact him again when you're ready.

flowers

caruthers Thu 23-Jan-14 16:56:15

I haven't got PR at the moment. How do I get it?
If you are the child's natural father, PR can be obtained by:

Marrying his mum.
Making a PR agreement with his mum.
Re-registering his birth, ensuring that you are named as his father on the birth certificate.

Applying to the court for an order (if your child's mum has refused to make an agreement with you, or you're unable to add your name to the birth certificate).

Applying to the court for a residence order.

www.babycentre.co.uk/a564492/parental-responsibility-for-unmarried-dads#section1

-----------------------------------

Bearing this in mind he may not follow through with anything legal but forewarned is forearmed.

If he continues to harass you can call the police he's got to stop that.

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 23-Jan-14 16:58:32

A birth certificate is no longer just a birth record,it's also a legal document that gives certain rights to unmarried parents.

An abusive man who has been abusive (yes I remember the other thread) and threatened to abduct a child and remove him/her from the country should absolutely be prevented from doing so. Not naming him does that quite well.

Just because someone is a parent it does not give them the right to be an abuser.

Fwiw I'm half joking about getting married and naming your DP as strictly speaking its against the law,unless the child is born during the marriage then it's a opps let's correct that rather than your very naughty if it gets picked up on.

marleyandme2014 Thu 23-Jan-14 23:52:51

Still no baby :-( all went well with the midwife though so hopefully not too much longer to wait.

Just a quick question - would it be beneficial for me to apply for a residence order for my baby? Am I likely to get it or am I risking a shared residence order being granted?

Thank you as ever, the support I'm receiving here is helping me get through this difficult time x

littlemisswine Fri 24-Jan-14 06:08:18

I was hoping minimarley would be here now!

I think if you leave him of the certificate you wont need an order. also I agree with previous posters about getting a passport asap and logging your concerns with 101

its easy to reregister a birth to add him to the certificate if he proves himself in the future

CouthyMow Fri 24-Jan-14 06:16:26

To do the passport thing - a child can only hold one uk passport. As soon as you have registered your baby, get a passport yourself. That sorts out the issue of him getting one...and you can get a flag put on the passport office system due to him being a flight risk to allow them to see if he has attempted to apply for a passport after that point.

(Been there, it's easy to sort, just budget the money for passport photos and a passport as soon as baby is here.)

CouthyMow Fri 24-Jan-14 06:18:09

And if you don't tell him when you are registering the birth, he won't know to be there at the same time, will he...

Just don't tell him when you are registering.

Him not being named on the Birth Certificate won't stop him from getting PR if he goes to Court though.

CouthyMow Fri 24-Jan-14 06:23:43

Actually, an unmarried Father can only be put on the Birth Certificate if he is present at the time of registration OR if he gets a Court Order to amend the Birth Certificate. (Note - the Court Orders are expensive to obtain...)

CouthyMow Fri 24-Jan-14 06:30:37

DON'T block him from your phone - every text is evidence if he takes you to court. He's PROVING himself to be abusive without you needing to do anything. Just stick the phone in a drawer, and buy a new one for yourself.

Leave the phone as your 'evidence phone'.

The idea of a log is a very good one too. Just look on it as more evidence of his twuntishness for the Courts.

Don't name him on the Birth Certificate, and DO get a passport ASAP for your baby. They last 10 years, so it'll be there if you and your partner want to have a nice family holiday to get away from your nob-end ex...wink

You NEED to log every threat of his - ones where he says he will make you out to be an unfit mother - if he's making these accusations before the birth, when he can't possibly know that, it will go some way to showing that any accusations he makes are borne of maliciousness, not any genuine concerns.

captainmummy Fri 24-Jan-14 08:09:57

Actually I think a child passport lasts for 5 years, not 10 - but even so, get one, OP so he can't .

sashh Fri 24-Jan-14 08:19:57

Your first step is to go to the police, this is harassment which is a crime. Even if they do nothing, as in don't charge him with anything, you will have a record of his vile behaviour to show the court.

Marley, I hope your labour is progressing well. If I remember from your other thread you have a supportive DP - please ask him to arrange a solicitor's appointment right now. It looks to me like your head is spinning (understandably so!) and although you have been given some really good advice I think seeing a professional will actually put your mind at rest. I think you are afraid of all the possibilities and it's easy, especially at a time of great stress, to imagine worst outcomes. So please, see a solicitor ASAP who can give you face to face advice and guidance on the best course of action. Good luck (and save all those shitty texts, as many people have said they are excellent evidence of his complete twattishness) thanks

Livvylongpants Fri 24-Jan-14 08:30:31

I'm sorry your going through this right now OP. I agree with other posters, register baby without him and try to arrange any contact through a sure start centre, if you contact them they will help you.

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 24-Jan-14 15:23:50

You can get exactly the same advice from a qualified solicitor by ringing either

https://www.gov.uk/civil-legal-advice (if you qualify for legal aid)

http://www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/ (not dependant on legal aid)

They will more than likely say,if he is not on the certificate then you do nothing court wise unless you need a protection order.

If you bring him to court your bringing it to the front of his head and priority chances are he will not bother to do anything legally as its quite a faff but if he's already there is becomes easy to just bung in an application

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 24-Jan-14 15:25:09
purplebaubles Fri 24-Jan-14 15:35:39

DO NOT put on birth cert. Put your DP (so long as he's ok with that of course!)

Keep your phone - but keep in a drawer, as another poster suggested. You will need the evidence. If he carries on, he's pretty much sealing his own fate.

Get that passport asap and keep in a safety deposit box.

Report the harassment so far to the police - so it's on record.

Hopefully this nasty man will give up before long and realise it's all a little bit pointless. It's all very well some posters saying he's the dad and he has rights. But nice, kind, well-meaning fathers to be do not send abusive/threatening texts etc. I cannot possibly see how this man could ever be a positive influence in your baby's life.

Notawordfromtheladybird Fri 24-Jan-14 16:07:10

I knew a man who had a child with a former gf, a one-off night. He was having a very difficult time with access in the first 6 months, where she'd cancel any agreed visits at the last minute. He went to a solicitor, and was advised that as long as the mother continues to TRY to arrange contact, even if she keeps canceling, as long she then offers an alternative new time... she will not be seen as unreasonable by any judge or mediator, and there's pretty much nothing he can do until the baby is much older.

So if it makes you feel better, you can offer and arrange contact, but if you're tired, the baby hasn't slept, etc. you can cancel and rearrange.

You will not have to put his needs (to see the baby) before the baby's or yours.

HappyMummyOfOne Fri 24-Jan-14 16:20:10

"To be fair to him, if someone told me I couldn't be named on my child's birth certificate I might not behave particularly well either.

You have no right to stop your child having his/her biological father named on the birth certificate, and you have no right to stop this man being a father to his child."

I agree. He's been painted by the OP as the bad guy yet she refuses to name his as the father on the birth certificate as it suits her and its little wonder he is angry. Not to mentiom the fact that her partner couldnt have children and she got pregnant whilst on a break. All very convenient and all the more so if she could get rid of the ex.

The courts will grant him access, its only right. The OP chose to have a child with this man, old enough to do that so old enough to accept the consequences.

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 24-Jan-14 16:37:12

Would you send your own child off with an abuser and give one legal powers?

softlysoftly Fri 24-Jan-14 16:40:37

It's horrible he is sending abusive texts, but you say they are clever in making you sound like the bad guy? Can you copy an example to show what you mean by abuse?

If he is abusive then report him to the police and run contact through a 3rd party.

The thing with both your threads is it makes me feel really sorry for men to be honest. All this advice of cut him out, name your DP on BC (even though she knows damn well Dp isn't the father), hope he gives up soon, don't tell him you are registering the birth etc is just awful.

From his point of view op can't have children with her DP due to fertility issues, got pg by him in a very short break and then hightailed it back to DP, proclaimed the quick shag was a horrible man and said they weren't going to put him on the birth cert.

I'd be feeling pretty used, pissed off and powerless too tbh and quite rightly panicky that someone could take my child away because they were the ones whose body carried it.

FitzgeraldProtagonist Fri 24-Jan-14 16:51:24

Happymummy. Really? What sockreturningpixie said.

Do not put name on certificate.

BTW, DV and threat of abduction out of country even where properly found, will not be enough to stop contact, hell, it won't be enough to keep contact supervised much beyond 18 months. So don't flog yourself to death trying to protect your child from a genuine threat through the courts. The courts will only protect them for a finite period before conducting a complete volte face and obliging you to send your baby like the proverbial sacrificial lamb to its father. Because you know, you aren't together so no harm done they say, as if the fact he has abused their mother is somehow a good thing, and they have a protocol to ensure there is a relationship with the other parent regardless of their behaviour in the past hmm and to move that relationship forward. They tell you this is for the good of your children. I am yet to be convinced.

After 18 months they will be keen to make contact unsupervised and you will wonder what the hell you wasted a year of angst for. In my case, to get them to an age where I hope they will be old enough to remember me.

Good luck with birth, congrats on new baby, get passport asap, don't put on birth certificate, look at reunite website, fill out form, and ffs report him to police for harassment.

missymarmite Fri 24-Jan-14 17:23:21

Just the threat of him taking baby out of the country is enough reason to not put him on birth certificate. No parent should have that kind of fear held over them. He gave up all right to be treated "fairly" by this behaviour. Sorry happymummy, but I disagree with what you have said.

Beachcombergirl Fri 24-Jan-14 17:26:02

.

Beachcombergirl Fri 24-Jan-14 17:32:00

I have a male friend who is going through this but from the other side. Not that I wish to upset the OP as circumstances are different but I think it's important to understand just why the ex would be upset and angry. My friend fell in love and had a short relationship with a woman who then dumped him and got together with someone else. He is a wonderful guy and is being distanced from the situation and is really worried he won't be put on the birth certificate. In his instance, I feel he is being treated terribly. I feel for the men sometimes.

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 24-Jan-14 17:36:42

If he's that worried and has been treated unfairly and is not an abusive arse then he can go to court as soon as the baby is born.

wannaBe Fri 24-Jan-14 17:45:47

There are generally two sides to every story. From this man's perspective he had a fling with a woman and got her pregnant. And it appears he does actually want some involvement with his child which should be recognised, since many men don't in the event of a fling, but the op is painting him as some sort of abuser for wanting a relationship with his child.

Tbh it looks to me more as if the op couldn't have children with her dp, went off and had a shag with some random bloke and then fell conveniently pregnant and is now playing the victim.

I think talk of not putting the man on the birth cert/marrying the dp etc is pretty vile tbh, and it is also worth bearing in mind that this is not about the op or the father (or the dp for that matter) but about an innocent child who is being denied a relationship with their father because it doesn't suit the op.

And it seems pretty convenient that he is apparently from another country so this will earn op more sympathy in the "he could abduct my child," steaks.

ticks a lot of boxes.... hmm

Clargo55 Fri 24-Jan-14 17:58:10

WannaBe have you read OP other posts? This main is abusive and vile and is a potential flight risk. Like hell would I give someone rights when they could potentially abduct the child.

Sorry it should always be what's in the child's best interests. From what the OP has said now and previously this man having unsupervised access and parental responsibility would not be in the best interest of the child. I am taking the OP at face value of course it's only one sided. But I am replying with my view in this circumstances.

Block his number for now Marley. Concentrate on you and the baby thanks

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 24-Jan-14 18:18:17

Again, if she blocks his number she loses a huge potential source of evidence because he's not going to stop with the threats.

CuttedUpPear Fri 24-Jan-14 18:33:21

I thought it would only be a matter of time before some FFJ nutter jumped on this thread.

Ignore, ignore OP, you have nothing to worry about.

Cutted
I don't think there is anyone from FFJ on this thread. There is a long established poster who has suggested a different perspective which you might not agree with. That doesn't mean you get to label them and call names.

HappyMummyOfOne Fri 24-Jan-14 18:48:48

Ooh so stick up for the man and you suddenly belong to FFJ hmm

In the op's other post she was already seeking financial support so quite happy to have the extra income and a child that she couldnt have with her partner yet denies the actual father any rights.

We have no proof he is being abusive only the OP's side of the story which to be honest doesnt exactly paint her as a saint. Suspect she is looking for a way to cut him out so she can play happy famies with a little extra income.

jacks365 Fri 24-Jan-14 18:55:44

There are one or two people who have lived pretty lucky and sheltered lives who do not fully realise the implications of adding a father to a birth certificate. It should just be a legal record of parentage but it isn't and therein lies the issue for example say there is a medical issue with the child, the father would be able to refuse treatment just to be awkward. He could refuse permission for the child to go on a school trip, he could access any savings accounts in the childs name and do what he wanted with the money, he could claim the cb and ctc possibly leaving the op in a desperate situation.There is far more involved in putting the father's name on a birth certificate than just acknowledging parentage.

Clargo55 Fri 24-Jan-14 19:10:37

Sorry Sock good point. Missed that up thread.

softlysoftly Fri 24-Jan-14 19:34:54

I haven't seen any explanation of where OP says he is abusive? She says they are abusive texts and then says in a previous post that he twists things to make her look like the bad one and hasn't put his threats in writing,

Perhaps because he hasn't made them?

Maybe he is an abusive arse. Maybe he is a flight risk. But take it to the police and to the courts, posters shouldn't be advising to falsify birth certificates with the wrong name and block access and just cut contact so he has no chance with what is ultimately whether the op likes it or not his child.

In a previous thread she wanted him to have no contact but pay for the kid, he said he'd put money into an account in his child's name and wanted access. Sounds like someone that wants to step up to me. Why else wouldn't he have just walked away given the opportunity?

MinesAPintOfTea Fri 24-Jan-14 19:47:47

The main advice on this thread has been to not put the father on the birth certificate but offer (supervised) contact in a reasonable way. He doesn't need to go on the BC to act like a father, but not being on there makes it more difficult to take the child out of the country without permission.

Iirc amending a BC to add the father is fairly easy if after a while the op feels he's grown up with fatherhood, our he can show the commitment to get it through the courts. But she doesn't want to be in the position of having to race to get a passport immediately street birth

Report him to the Police for harassment op, let them deal with it, and there will be a record of it for court should you need it.

Good luck for your labour.

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 24-Jan-14 21:22:08

We have no proof he is being abusive only the OP's side of the story which to be honest doesnt exactly paint her as a saint. Suspect she is looking for a way to cut him out so she can play happy famies with a little extra income

That's all we ever have on any thread about anything. What exactly was it that makes her story questionable to you? That she had a short term fling with someone then went back to her ex?

People do that,it happens just because you have had sex with more than 1 person it does not mean you can't be abused.

Him not being named does not cut him out

Alisvolatpropiis Fri 24-Jan-14 21:24:49

The op has nothing to gain by telling us he has threatened to kidnap the baby and take him/her to his home country. Nothing.

The fact she has suggests it's true and for that reason alone I think that putting him on the birth certificate would be insane.

I do think men are wronged often in this kind of situation.

I just don't think this particular man is being wronged in this specific situation.

missymarmite Fri 24-Jan-14 22:03:20

Plus, offering him supervised visits is totally reasonable, hardly 'cutting him out'!

Chunderella Sat 25-Jan-14 09:16:38

There is no excuse for harassing a woman who is in slow labour and threatening to portray her as an unfit mother in court because you are angry at her, none at all. Anyone who does this is a cunt, anyone who thinks it is ever justified to do this is a cunt. His behaviour indicates that he does not have his child's best interests at heart, because it cannot possibly be in her interests to raise her mother's stress levels during late pregnancy and birth.

Dahlen Sat 25-Jan-14 09:27:13

There is no excuse for harassing a woman who is in slow labour and threatening to portray her as an unfit mother in court because you are angry at her, none at all.

This. We are not talking about some man who is desperately trying to have contact with a much-wanted baby here. He is an abuser who is threatening a woman in labour.

OP, get all this reported to the police. You will need evidence of police involvement if you want to get legal aid. After sending one final text saying you will report him to the police if he does not stop, completely ignore. If you have to deal with him, use professional agencies like the police/solicitor and involve SS if he is harassing you as it will help if you have to go to court and require CAFCASS involvement.

All of this will also help you be believed when you say he has threatened to abduct your child. This is taken very seriously by the courts. Your X may well get awarded contact if he pushes it (in fact he probably will get it), but they may place restrictions on it and his parental responsibility.

Good luck and congratulations on your baby. smile

Notawordfromtheladybird Sat 25-Jan-14 09:44:00

I cannot believe some posters' attitude to putting a person on the birth certificate. It's not a keepsake you frame for your child. It is a legal document that allows the man to legal rights. He can object to child having medical tests. He can object to child being taken on a holiday. He can stop the child from attending a particular school. He can stop the mother from accepting a job a certain distance away from him, even if he only sees his child sporadically.

For what, 16 years is it?

Why should someone who is behaving THIS badly already at the pregnancy stage, be allowed this kid of power over two lives? He's not shown any commitment to co-parenting. The OP has no reason to trust his behaviour will somehow improve in next 10 years. If it does however, he can prove that in court and earn those rights.

Pigsmummy Sat 25-Jan-14 09:47:46

I popped back to see if baby had arrived? Any news?

flippinada Sat 25-Jan-14 09:51:29

For those who lack reading and comprehension skills, here's a quote from the original post ^" I have not refused contact once the baby is born."^"

Also WRT "I think talk of not putting the man on the birth cert/marrying the dp etc is pretty vile"

It isn't vile, it's UK law. If you aren't married, you can't put the father's name on the birth certificate unless he is there (this applies in England, Scotland and Wales).

http://www.babycentre.co.uk/x541584/registering-your-babys-birth

flippinada Sat 25-Jan-14 09:51:55
stickysausages Sat 25-Jan-14 09:52:18

Hope Labour is going well OP, or that baby is here thanks

Chunderella Sat 25-Jan-14 09:54:55

Worse, 18 years. You're right, though. Some people's understanding of what birth certificates actually do is pretty limited. This man has already comprehensively proved that he's more interested in getting at OP than doing what's in his child's best interests- that's why he's been harassing her in late pregnancy. With that in mind, it would be extremely irresponsible of OP to allow him any say over their child's life and welfare.

ComposHat Sat 25-Jan-14 10:29:04

Whilst I can understand NOT wanting to put the father's name on the birth certificate , putting the new (old) partner's name down is illegal, will potentially lead to protracted court action and harmful to the child. I would utge the op

Imagine a situation 15 years hence when the op has a stroppy teenager and in the midst of a row her partner blurts out 'well he/she isn't my bloody kid anyway'

I wouldn't fancy picking up the pieces of yhat.

I

formerbabe Sat 25-Jan-14 17:18:44

I would imagine those of you saying put him on the birth certificate have probably had children with responsible, kind, reasonable men.

If I was the OP, then there would be no way I would put him on the BC...esp as there are concerns he would try and take the child from here or out of the country.

wobblyweebles Sun 26-Jan-14 02:13:20

>I knew a man who had a child with a former gf, a one-off night. He was having a very difficult time with access in the first 6 months, where she'd cancel any agreed visits at the last minute. He went to a solicitor, and was advised that as long as the mother continues to TRY to arrange contact, even if she keeps canceling, as long she then offers an alternative new time... she will not be seen as unreasonable by any judge or mediator, and there's pretty much nothing he can do until the baby is much older.

This is not true. A member of my family was in the same position and he eventually won custody because his ex kept cancelling his access.

GhettoPrincess001 Sun 26-Jan-14 02:41:13

wannaBe - I agree wholeheartedly. It's always the men who are described on this site as being vile isn't it ?

The father being furious at being the convenient sperm donor then being rejected as you trot off back to your regular man without a backward glance ? Really, I wonder why ? I suppose it's to late to discuss contraception just now.

What happens with the next random when another baby is required ? How does the regular partner feel about her coming back to him pregnant with someone else's baby ? That's ok is it ?

Eighteen years of paying for her baby hunger because he is infertile ? Now who's being vile to whom ?

One man to father the child, another to raise it. Nice.

GhettoPrincess001 Sun 26-Jan-14 02:42:55

Caveat: when it's done deliberately by the mother.

I accept there are many many circumstances where this has happened.

innisglas Sun 26-Jan-14 03:55:50

I hope mother and baby are fine, and that she doesn't put him on the birth cert. I too hate to see injustice done to a man, but being a father implies more than forgetting to use a condom. At this stage and for a long time to come, the baby's welfare is intrinsically tied up with his mother's welfare, his attitude so far does not show any understanding of that.

And yes, anyone can come on here and tell us a pack of lies, but what do they gain by that? Nothing. Assuming that the OP is telling lies is a hide onto nothing

Chunderella Sun 26-Jan-14 08:43:35

Those of you who are saying OP ought to put him on the BC in this situation, are you seriously saying that if you were in her shoes you'd do the same? That is, if you were pregnant to someone who'd threatened to abduct your child to a different country, sent you abusive texts and harassed you while you were in labour you would happily allow them all the powers that PR confers? No weasel words about how you wouldn't be in this situation because of x, or OP has made up y please. That's just ducking the issue, and if any of you take that approach we'll all know exactly why. But if you're truly serious in your belief that this is the right thing to do, you'd do the same in OPs shoes.

CuttedUpPear Sun 26-Jan-14 09:21:24

I totally agree with what Chunderella says.

IneedAsockamnesty Sun 26-Jan-14 12:46:42

Ghetto.

That's a vile post, nothing at all from this op indicates she's intentionally done this,many things indicate she has not.

So why bother posting it on this thread?

jacks365 Sun 26-Jan-14 12:53:45

If someone deliberately went out to get pregnant because their partner was infertile do you really believe they would tell the natural father? Come off it if the op had done this deliberately she'd have just disappeared and never said a word and he would have never known. The fact things are the way they are shows that the op has been upfront and honest so the insults are uncalled for.

HappyMummyOfOne Sun 26-Jan-14 14:25:35

But if she didnt tell the father, she wouldnt be able to get the maintainence she wants. Willing to take that yet deny him everything.

If the plan was not to get pregnant OP would have used contraception given she hardly knew the man from iirc from the other post. Nice and convenient timing hmm not to mention she can use the fact he is from another country against him.

Its ok for the OP to use him, shut him out but the ex is not supposed to react and when he does he is suddendly no good to be a father. Double standards are rife again i see.

FGS, what sort of weirdos defend a man who is harassing and threatening a woman who is in labour?

and Happy, I noticed you haven't asked why he didn't use contraception...

Chunderella Sun 26-Jan-14 14:32:42

Some of you seem to be working from different definitions of convenient to the rest of the planet. Being threatened while you're in labour is pretty much the definition of inconvenient.

jacks365 Sun 26-Jan-14 15:11:54

Of course someone would put themselves through all of this just for the bit of money they might get in child maintenance why didn't I think of that hmm. He'd have to be stupidly rich to make that worth it. By the way no contraception is 100% guaranteed I know quite a few people who can confirm that.

thepobblewhohasnotoes Sun 26-Jan-14 15:23:54

I also agree you shouldn't block him from you phone as

Get a new phone to use daily, and keep the old one on just to collect his texts so you can use them as proof of what he's like, or to communicate with him if/when you want to.

thepobblewhohasnotoes Sun 26-Jan-14 15:25:24

Oops part of my message disappeared!

Should have said ... as they're extremely valuable evidence against him.

flippinada Sun 26-Jan-14 15:47:15

I think the unpleasant posts on this thread say far more about the people making them than any supposed imaginary bad behaviour on the part of op.

marleyandme2014 Sun 26-Jan-14 15:47:21

Just a quick update, I've finally had my baby girl - she was born in the early hours. Absolutely beautiful and the light of my life already. We are home, safe, sound and healthy.

I haven't had chance to read the replies on this thread yet, but thank you to those of you who have offered support and advice - it has been and will continue to be a great strength for me xxx

jacks365 Sun 26-Jan-14 15:49:04

Congratulations marley thanks

flippinada Sun 26-Jan-14 15:52:09

Congratulations! thanks

MammaTJ Sun 26-Jan-14 15:52:17

Congratulations!

IneedAsockamnesty Sun 26-Jan-14 15:56:12

Congratulations

Congratulations

IneedAsockamnesty Sun 26-Jan-14 15:58:45

Happymummy.

Go through her posts, what exactly is the only thing at all that she is denying the only thing is the birth certificate, she was open and trying to arrange contact and involvement she was giving him information and she was trying to engage with him.

Allalonenow Sun 26-Jan-14 16:02:29

thanks Congratulations!

Branleuse Sun 26-Jan-14 16:19:18

Tell him its not his baby and to leave you alone

Branleuse Sun 26-Jan-14 16:19:57

Congratulations

Thatisall Sun 26-Jan-14 16:39:22

Essentially his current behaviour is risking the health of your child. Can you speak to mw about this and see if something can be recorded in your notes etc as proof?

Thatisall Sun 26-Jan-14 16:41:28

Ahh I just saw the news!! Congratulations grin

bodygoingsouth Sun 26-Jan-14 16:46:46

congratulations and I too would tell him to fuck right off as he's not the father.

Congratulations!

caruthers Sun 26-Jan-14 17:49:30

Will he be seeing his child then?

littlemisswine Sun 26-Jan-14 18:00:20

congratulations

Bagpussss Sun 26-Jan-14 18:01:46

Congratulations Marley, do what's best for the child no matter what the haters say, you have some good advice on here, all the best thanks

GimmeDaBoobehz Sun 26-Jan-14 20:57:26

Wannabegrin

ChasedByBees Sun 26-Jan-14 21:00:22

Congratulations!

GimmeDaBoobehz Sun 26-Jan-14 21:05:47

Congratulations your daughter nearly shared a birthday with me smile

GhettoPrincess001 Mon 27-Jan-14 05:39:53

Will you put someone else's name on the birth cert as the father ? Someone who better suits your convenience ? Go on, the registrar won't know.

Alisvolatpropiis Mon 27-Jan-14 07:30:29

Congratulations op

Ghetoo biscuit

Chunderella Mon 27-Jan-14 07:50:05

Hey ghetto you've not told us yet what you'd do in this situation. I for one would be delighted to hear whether you're a hypocrite or an irresponsible parent, because its one or the other.

Congratulations OP.

IneedAsockamnesty Mon 27-Jan-14 08:48:53

Ghetto, the op has already said on 2 threads now that she has no intention of doing that and she is well aware that doing so would be against the law.

You have a very unpleasant posting style, is it intentional?

SavoyCabbage Mon 27-Jan-14 09:06:45

Congratulations Marley.

helenthemadex Mon 27-Jan-14 09:52:25

congratulations hope its all going well

Clargo55 Mon 27-Jan-14 17:28:08

Congratulations Marley thanks enjoy the newborn snuggles.

innisglas Mon 27-Jan-14 19:24:36

Many congratulations, Marley. All the best.

Congratulations Marley! Health, wealth and happiness to your new dd. flowers

WetDogLovesHubert Mon 27-Jan-14 21:36:09

Congratulations grin enjoy snuggling your beautiful bundle thanks

stickystick Mon 27-Jan-14 22:04:14

congratulations!

I've only just seen this thread but wanted to say, try not to worry too much because it may very well turn out that his bark is worse than his bite. I was in a very similar situation (horrid texts from my XP/baby's father in the run up to him being born). One year on, and time, to some extent, has healed. He's not a great dad, in the sense that most of the time he is completely uninterested in his child and rarely sees him, but the raw anger and aggression has dissipated. A lot of the anger came from his fear about the effect on his life of the baby being born. Once the baby was born and the sky did not fall in, the fear gradually faded along with the anger.

Other than that, all the advice given above by others eg not putting him on the BC and keeping texts is excellent. I advise taking photos of the worst ones, just in case your phone gets lost or corrupted because texts are very hard to digitally back up on most phones.

good luck!

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