to be suprised there is a "gifted and talented" board here

(119 Posts)
fromparistoberlin Thu 23-Jan-14 12:02:54

sorry its really made me giggle

but seriously!? is this a major worry for people?

MrsBucketxx Thu 23-Jan-14 12:04:59

Gifted children have problems like any other.


or maybe a little jealous.


fromparistoberlin Thu 23-Jan-14 12:07:27

sorry, but the thread seem to be mainly:

"my 4 year old said "synchronicity today, does this mean he is G&T"?

I actually never knew that this (a) was an issue of that (b) they had problems so apologies if I have caused offence

NewBlueCoat Thu 23-Jan-14 12:08:12

Everyone's problems are a problem for them. It's not nice to minimise issues.

FWIW, it can be tricky finding out what to do with a child performing way beyond their years. My dd2 is having a few issues at the moment, as a direct result of her being considered G&T. Are her problems as severe as my dd1's issues (dd1 has severe ASD and learning difficulties). No, motto the outside world. But to dd2? Yes, absolutely - it's her world, and her life, and she is neither comfortable nor happy in it.

following Thu 23-Jan-14 12:10:40

yanbu , just read through a few threads on there , not really problems are they ,just a place to boast about how bright little jimmy is .

Dawndonnaagain Thu 23-Jan-14 12:12:36

Pleasant thread. hmm

PedlarsSpanner Thu 23-Jan-14 12:13:48

I knew a child who understood planetary motion, affects on the seasons, coniferous and deciduous trees,tectonic plate theory at age 4.

Finding ways to extend their learning was a tricky path for the parents.


hardtostayfocused Thu 23-Jan-14 12:18:14

AS far as I know, "Gifted and Talented" was a concept brought in by the last Labour govt to recognise and support children who are particularly academic, creative, sporting etc.

The current govt ditched measuring it because (IMO) they only recognise academic gifts rather than other, non-academic, talents. The official terminology became "more able children", and subsequently "most able children", and these must now be recognised and supported at school.

However many schools have stuck with the slightly bizarre G&T soubriquet (unless it's just me who thinks "Drink!"), and many parents fret about it.

True giftedness (very rare) must be pretty difficult to cope with for both the child and the parents.

Anyway, I suggest you are being a little provocative rather than U?!

Iwannalaylikethisforever Thu 23-Jan-14 12:18:40

But thanks for telling me where I can boast about how clever my dc are, they often invited to attend g&t events through school.

lljkk Thu 23-Jan-14 12:21:53

oh FFS, It surprises me that there's a Sleb Twaddle board on here, too. How could MNHQ? Lowers the tone, don't you think?
Yabu. Hide something if you don't like it, not difficult. Do you need instructions?

SilverApples Thu 23-Jan-14 12:22:05

My daughter is gifted, there's a thin line between it and insanity and she walks the line most days. I've taught four gifted children in 30 years, it really isn't easy for them or their parents or their school to manage effectively.
So YABU, but it's through ignorance and lack of experience rather than malice.
Gifted and highly intelligent are different things IME.

I imagine that your kind of response to some perfectly sensible questions was the reason that a G&T section was set up.

The gifted and talented label and people claiming to have gifted toddlers can sound silly.

However, I have known several DCs well ahead of their peer groups and it causes real problems.

In a small single form entry primary, you don't have to be outrageously clever to be bored witless, stick out like a sore thumb and get bullied.

The G&T board gives these DCs parents as well as the smaller number with truly gifted children a safe place to hang out.

allthingsfluffy Thu 23-Jan-14 12:30:19

Yeah, its a real hoot OP. hmm

Its a bit like saying skinny people can't be worried about their weight isn't it. Just because something is on the desirable end of a spectrum doesn't mean its easy to live with in every case!

wigglesrock Thu 23-Jan-14 12:32:57

Yes, it is a worry for some parents - how to best support their kids. Is that ok with you? Don't read it if it irritates you, there's loads of MN I don't bother with. I don't feel the need to start threads taking the piss.

ChippingInWadesIn Thu 23-Jan-14 12:45:04

Have you even looked at the list of boards? Where on earth did you get the idea that something has to be a major worry before it can have a 'board'?

That aside, your post is thoughless (at best) or plain nasty. There are lots of issues the children or parents have with a child that is Gifted and Talented, use your imagination or read some of the threads to get a glimpse of a difficult life if you simply can't imagine it.

PS: No axe to grind, I don't have a child that is G&T.
PPS: Your own threads aren't exactly life & death issues either are they?!

manicinsomniac Thu 23-Jan-14 12:47:54

It's definitely something that some people need to consider in their lives so why not.

Though, I think it would be better as part of the SN board (as it counts as SEN educationally and gifted children often have other AN). That would discourage the misuse of the board for 'my clever little Jimmy' comments as mentioned upthread.

WilsonFrickett Thu 23-Jan-14 12:50:49

In Scotland it's considered an 'additional need' manic so G + T children have an IEP or ASP as appropriate. I kind of like that they're approached the same way.

manicinsomniac Thu 23-Jan-14 12:53:48

yes Wilson it is in England too. At least it is in the independent school I teach it. I don't know about state schools.

CrohnicallyFarting Thu 23-Jan-14 12:59:26

In our school, G and T children have extra support, differentiation in class etc but without the IEP. It's a fairly recent thing though, when I was at school (20 ish years ago) G and T children were just left to get on with it.

Retropear Thu 23-Jan-14 13:02:43

At ours they have IEPs.

Picturesinthefirelight Thu 23-Jan-14 13:03:36

It was initiated originally for parents of children on the official g&t scheme & there was an association too I think they could join

Gifted children can have problem at school.

Dd is talented but every child at her school is talented as its a specialist school. It's great for hercto hecdonewhere she fits in.

Fleta Thu 23-Jan-14 13:04:46

Believe me it is a worry.

Mostly along the lines of how she'll be treated as she gets bigger sad

Hogwash Thu 23-Jan-14 13:05:21

Like others have said, very bright children can have considerable problems sometimes due to their intelligence.

An invalid sample size of one ... but I know of one child at my children's school who struggles emotionally and there is seemingly a huge gap between his emotional and intellectual intelligence to the extent he is visibly unhappy and can cause problems.

It can also be hard for teachers to challenge bright children - especially if the children are brighter than they are, and those children can become very disruptive.

MatriarchMommy Thu 23-Jan-14 13:06:41

My 6yo ds is gifted, he also has autism and bipolar disorder. The ways he deals with things are very different from the ways most other children his age do.

How is one parenting 'worry' any less valid than any other.

And who cares if some of it can be a bit boasty. Is it that terrible to be proud of your child and want to share their achievements somewhere? (Ie: On a dedicated board.)

YABU OP. If you don't like it or feel intimidated by it then don't read it.

GlassCastle Thu 23-Jan-14 13:13:17

Being sneered at by other pupils because you finish the set reading in class in a third of the time. Even the teachers sometimes joined in accusing me of cheating and making me recap in front of the class.

Fond memories for me.... Not.

Children who stand out for whatever reason require help and tolerance.

CatAssTrophy Thu 23-Jan-14 13:15:39

Gifted and talented is actually recognised as being a SEN. You are being very unreasonable.

Elsiequadrille Thu 23-Jan-14 13:20:12

"my 4 year old said "synchronicity today, does this mean he is G&T"?

To be fair, it's been a while since I happened across the G and T section, so it may not be the case nowadays, but majority of threads did seem to be along similar lines. Lots of posts about reading levels (nothing out of the ordinary), or sitting up/rolling over/walking early, knowing alphabet at early age, and asking if this meant their child was gifted.

following Thu 23-Jan-14 13:23:41

my dd is on the so called `gifted and talented` list at senior school , i would not describe her as gifted or talented , she is a child who doesnt struggle with school work, my other dd struggled through but she wasnt special needs or any other label , i dont agree with labels at all , makes them stand out like a sore thumb , some kids get it , some dont why label them.

Gileswithachainsaw Thu 23-Jan-14 13:27:30

I'm sorry did you want parents to accept their children not being stretched and getting bored and disruptive or did you want them able to post for advice so they can help support their child?

Just because they are gifted doesn't mean that they don't have their own struggles and problems.

fromparistoberlin Thu 23-Jan-14 13:28:52

whoa I have come across as a SEN basher, thats an unintended consequence

it was very flippant post, I skimmed and read some posts that landed to me as a bit PFB, ie the MC NCT mummies boasting

but if people have children that struggle, and are unhappy due to it, I apologise, Children being unhappy is NOT funny
boasty mums are though

anyway I am gonna get bashed to shit now, so sorry, time to hide thread

SilverApples Thu 23-Jan-14 13:29:48

The difficulty came when schools were ordered to identify the top 10% as G&T. So the distinction between very able and G&T was lost.
I have taught many very clever and talented children over the years, but less than a handful of truly gifted.

PedlarsSpanner Thu 23-Jan-14 13:31:27

Very gracious apology, much appreciated, thank you

SilverApples Thu 23-Jan-14 13:32:01

Perhaps namechange as well, so you don't remain remembered as an ignorant and shallow poster with little empathy?

fromparistoberlin Thu 23-Jan-14 13:36:49

oh do bog off silverapples. I posted flippantly, and thoughtlessly. and have apologised

I have learnt two things today

one that G&T is actually a big deal, and I get it

two that some people want to fucking bash people, even when they have apologised for it

littlepurplealien Thu 23-Jan-14 13:41:38

I'm sure the parents of children identified by schools as G&T and therefore in need of a more tailored learning plan are happy to have provided amusement for you.

A G&T child may be educationally advanced but some are behind their peers in other areas which are a worry as bullying of kids seen as different in any way can start young, knock confidence and have a lifelong impact.

Whether we agree with the label or not, we often are parents to children who have problems not experienced by the majority of their classmates and yes we'd like somewhere to discuss with parents going through something similar in the same manner as SN parents do, without being mocked.

littlepurplealien Thu 23-Jan-14 13:42:40

Sorry, delay in pressing post means I didn't see that you now get it and have apologised.

hazeyjane Thu 23-Jan-14 13:44:24

I know that being truly G&T is recognised as a SEN, but really don't think it should be part of the SN boards, education seems a good place for it.

There are bound to be a certain number of threads started by parent's questioning whether their child is Gifted, as I am sure it is not a black and white issue.

Hopefully people will read the thread before piling on you, fromparistoberlin!!

littlepurplealien Thu 23-Jan-14 13:45:13

I prefer the "higher learning potential" label over the frankly naff G & T.

My dc have been identified as G & T and one is a whizz at Maths, 2/3 years ahead of peer group, I'd call it very bright, not Einstein hence not "gifted".

AwfulMaureen Thu 23-Jan-14 13:45:21

Being gifted is very close to having special educational needs...or in fact exactly the same! OP you make yourself sound very ignorant.

ouryve Thu 23-Jan-14 13:46:44

Glad you've acknowledged that you were, indeed, being unreasonable, OP.

AwfulMaureen Thu 23-Jan-14 13:46:57

higher learning potential is bollocks. Who can say what a child's potential is? A child who is a slow starter may suddenly advance....saying one child is "Higher" in some way is not fair. Gifted and Talented is covers the children who are academically special and those who are especially talented at something such as art, music or sports.

ouryve Thu 23-Jan-14 13:49:19

Agreed, Hazey. DS1 has DME - high learning potential, but an extremely steep slope for him to get there. I spend more time on the SN boards, but some of his difficulties do come about because he is so bright. If I needed to discuss them, specifically, I would take that query to the G&T board.

OP it's refreshing to have someone admit they were wrong / have learned something, and to apologise so well done for that.

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 23-Jan-14 13:51:20

I don't agree it should be part of SN board. That would be somewhat insensitive.

My DD was at nursery with a bright child. .her mum told me she had her own special needs"..

Frankly I was not that impressed given my DD couldn't speak, do anything independently or sit on a chair.

littlepurplealien Thu 23-Jan-14 13:53:08

I think HLP is a good description in many ways, it describes the child's learning potential and needs rather than the child.

Such dc often work with a higher year group covering higher level work. The word is IMHO apt.

All it says to me is that the child needs to be given a more advanced level of work than their classmates and some schools achieve this (up to a point) by co-ordinating timings of maths/literacy so kids can work with their ability peers rather than age peers. It falls down when they are stuck in primary school needing secondary school work with a year 6 teacher whose own maths ability is not up to the task.

Somersetlady Thu 23-Jan-14 13:53:08

Off to check out the g&t board now for myself is there no end to mumsnet time wasting offerings for the uninitiated

tunnocksteacake Thu 23-Jan-14 13:53:24

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 23-Jan-14 13:55:20

I must add I don't see a problem having a G and T board and I see need for it.

Just that if I am looking for advice on my 7 year old being non verbal I dont really want to read about child genii at same time.

Pagwatch Thu 23-Jan-14 14:02:25

It is refreshing to see an op say that they felt they posted inappropriately so good on you OP.

The current G&T label s unhelpful IMHO.
The board does have it's share of 'my dd is reading Proust at 18months and I think I should be moving her on to more challenging material' but honestly, I can well imagine the issues and problems around having a child who is extremely intelligent but with necessarily the emotional intelligence or social skills/development to deal with being different.

OP is a reasonable human being people. No need to panic. AIBU has intervened wink

Nice to see a rubbishy OP turn it round.

Pagwatch Thu 23-Jan-14 14:06:33

Doh - that should be without , not with.

lalouche Thu 23-Jan-14 14:06:58

There was a news article I read recently about the youngest child ever to get an ABRSM diploma in music, aged something like 9 or 10. He apparently wanted to to go Cambridge then become prime minister too. It struck me that a child like that was likely to be so divorced from his peer group as to make normal life and friendships impossible. I certainly don't envy parents of children like that, and hope that mine end up bright and talented enough to be able to do whatever they want to do in life, but certainly not little Mozarts/Einsteins/whatever.

WilsonFrickett Thu 23-Jan-14 14:09:59

Well said OP.

2tiredtocare Thu 23-Jan-14 14:17:05

Don't namechange OP that is ridiculous

Fleta Thu 23-Jan-14 14:22:27

Thanks OP smile

fromparistoberlin Thu 23-Jan-14 14:23:13

Oooh I wont namechange, and I am always fast to admit when I get it wrong

Honestly I am so new to this education malarkey, I just through that G&T was a term for clever kids. I did not even consider it was a problem in some ways, and that it caused suffering and angst

The third thing I have learnt, from a deeper skim of the board is that..... my DS1 is NOT even remotely G&T!!!! gutted

2tiredtocare Thu 23-Jan-14 14:33:20

Good, I don't think I'm cultivating any genii here either but I love it that my DC (for now!) think I know everything smile

HopeClearwater Thu 23-Jan-14 14:41:54

gifted, there's a thin line between it and insanity

Any evidence for this?!

Retropear Thu 23-Jan-14 14:50:44

Tbh I think the op has a point.

I have a G&T child with an IEP but think the whole thing is a crock.

Kids go up and down,truly gifted children are rare and many gifted or very able children like my DS are perfectly able to get on just fine without a lot of hoo ha.My ex teacher hat is on here.

The scheme causes angst amongst parents and to be perfectly frank I think it's incredibly unfair.All children should have the chance to do enrichment activities not just a few(out of my 3, 1 doesn't go on courses and it pisses me of greatly as said child would benefit greatly from a day doing something he/she excels in too).

Children just under the label can miss out as they may not get stretched enough.I think it can lead to complacency re stretching all children ie there can be oh we send some on courses job done kind of mentality.

Also parents pay for those courses so many kids will be missing out due to lack of funds.The title can mean they don't get anything extra bar courses anyway.

As I said I think the whole thing is a crock and to be honest it's high time they got rid of it.That said an enrichment programme of courses for all kids imvho would be a great idea but clearly economically sadly probably not viable.

HopeClearwater Thu 23-Jan-14 14:57:51

I used to work in a school where the kids came in at 7, with lower than average end of KS1 scores. Much lower, for a variety of reasons. We would still have to identify a certain number as G&T, but it was obvious that in another school those children would not necessarily be labelled as G&T. So I tend to agree with Retropear above. It's a load of rubbish and leads to a lot of parents thinking they have this very unusual child on their hands, when they don't.

Retropear Thu 23-Jan-14 15:00:44

Exactly,standards can differ from class to class within the same school too.

Retropear Thu 23-Jan-14 15:06:22

I have never,ever discussed the term with my DS.

I once walked behind a mum with a letter for one of those courses loudly prattling on to get son about how it was because he was gifted and talented.I remember thinking that I hope for his sake he actually is as one day he is going to come down to earth with an almighty bump if not.

whogivesadamn Thu 23-Jan-14 15:50:25

it's a big problem being brighter than your parents and your family and most of the other dumb asses you have to share the planet with.

A special forum is a good idea.

Retropear and Hope - that is an interesting point.

I agree that the term is bandied about far to freely and loosely.

I just through that G&T was a term for clever kids. I did not even consider it was a problem in some ways, and that it caused suffering and angst

Well exactly - look at e.g. Sheldon and all his (social) problems!

hazeyjane Thu 23-Jan-14 16:05:50

A special forum is a good idea.

There is a special forum/board here

FanFuckingTastic Thu 23-Jan-14 16:15:01

Raising incredibly intelligent children does come with difficulties. One of mine is so sensitive that everything upsets him, and the other is so difficult behaviorally that I find myself ripping my hair out trying to keep up with her.

I was also highly intelligent, and I was left to languish at school and it meant I never had any work ethic when it mattered at exam time. I went from straight A student to only just passing my exams in some cases. I don't want the same to happen to my kids.

DalmationDots Thu 23-Jan-14 16:18:31

OP have you seen 'Child Genius' on 4od, the most recent episodes with the competition.
There was a few children on there where you saw genuine struggling parents where the child was super intelligent (far ahead of their age) of their own accord but emotionally and socially 'normal' age. It led to real difficulties how to cater for the child educationally.

G&T (shouldn't) be about bragging parents but about addressing the problems that comes with it of catering for that child and the parent's struggles to know how to deal with it. Do you encourage the child to pursue interests/progress even further ahead academically or do you try and keep them in line with their chronological age to help them socially? A lot of dilemmas.

I think it's probably better than muddling those threads up with the SN board, which just has enough on it's plate already.

bodygoingsouth Thu 23-Jan-14 16:28:07

glad mine are average really. there are problems at both ends of the academic scale.

That's interesting Retropear - we've had letters saying our two are G&T at various things from time to time but I don't think it's made much difference. We had a leaflet about some website and courses you could sign up for but didn't partly as DS was just leaving primary anyway.
If someone actually offered me an educational enrichment opportunity for my DC I would gladly accept. I just don't fully understand what might be on offer. I feel vaguely guilty about that in case they're missing out on something, but at the same time I know my DC do loads of enriching things anyway.

RockinHippy Thu 23-Jan-14 16:38:18

oh FFS, It surprises me that there's a Sleb Twaddle board on here, too. How could MNHQ? Lowers the tone, don't you think

Yabu. Hide something if you don't like it, not difficult. Do you need instructions

lljk that made me grin

OP YABVVU & obviously have no clue of the difficulties often involved in parenting much brighter DCs, things often missed by schools too - for many of us that board has been a godsend, just as much as the SN boards are for those that use them.

Would you start a thread to poke fun at that board ?? - I suspect not hmm

Retropear Thu 23-Jan-14 16:38:30

Fan my son isn't easy,uber perfectionist,very sensitive etc however I think the title needs to be ditched.

I think all children need to be stretched and catered for.Schools should be expected to do that instead of ticking a box,giving a label and separating the top 10 as worthy of something just because.

Many children have behavioural issues with different reasons,all are worthy of attention.If a child is playing up because he isn't be stretched then it needs to be dealt with.This will apply to many children,none are more worthy,there doesn't need to be a special label for the top percentage in that particular class in that particular school.

CaractacusPotts Thu 23-Jan-14 16:44:21

rockinhippy RTFT ;-)

FanFuckingTastic Thu 23-Jan-14 16:49:43

I don't particularly like the title myself, it hints at being elitist and I certainly don't want my kids to be regarded as I think they are special in any other way than they are unique little beings who may require a little bit of support to get through school.

There is a unique need to be able to discuss their particular needs, because I don't want my children to turn out like me, I'm overwhelmed by life because I didn't get the help when I needed it. I want them to turn out to be functional and successful human beings, intelligence doesn't mean they will... in some ways it's harder.

RockinHippy Thu 23-Jan-14 16:50:51

Got to admit I'm with Retropear on a lot of comments she makes too - I hate the label & don't own up to it with other parents in RL, it can have an adverse affect if the DCs in class know to as they get picked on for it.

I know a genuinely gifted boy, well he's a man now, but his G&T status opened up an opportunity for him to go to Oxford, they took a group of inner city G&T Teens for a trial, with the option of staying on & studying there - by that time he was so sick of the bullying it attracted that he told them to stick it as he was going camping with his mates, he's never tried to excel at anything since - his none G&T but bright DSIS on the other hand has worked very hard in her chosen career & is doing way better than he has, he's pretty much dropped out sad

Nerfmother Thu 23-Jan-14 17:01:16

G and t is not an sen. It might be treated as one in some schools, but it doesn't fit the learning difficulty definition of sen, and it's better termed as an additional need really.

WestieMamma Thu 23-Jan-14 17:06:14

My daughter is extremely gifted and it contributed to very serious problems throughout her childhood. She was 15 when her IQ was tested by a specialist unit at the hospital here. She scored 145 despite doing the whole assessment in a language she had only been learning for a year. They said she would have been off the scale if she'd done it in English.

Being so gifted meant that her autism wasn't spotted until she was 15. She was really struggling to cope with school, following instructions, cognitive function etc but her high starting point meant she still achieved acceptable grades in school and she used her intelligence to pretend to be like everyone else. Her behaviour however was terrible because keeping her head above water was destroying her mental health.

I always knew she was far more intelligent than the teachers thought but I just got the hmm face. I wish there'd been a G&T board when she was younger, it could have saved her a lot of pain.

RockinHippy Thu 23-Jan-14 17:12:27


I can relate to your post with DD so much, I'm reading a book recommended to me by an Ed Phsyc - though sadly nothing DDs school had ever heard of sad

I'm finding it to be a brilliant book & its DD to a tee & makes so much sense - HERE

hackmum Thu 23-Jan-14 17:14:20

It can be tough for parents of gifted children (I have no vested interest here, by the way.) One of the hardest thing is that some teachers seem to resist the idea that a child is particularly intelligent, and will assume the parents are being pushy or deluded. Of course some parents are pushy and deluded, but it's quite hard if your child is genuinely gifted and the school haven't spotted it - some gifted children quickly learn to stop putting their hand up because they don't want to be thought a show-off.

TunipTheUnconquerable Thu 23-Jan-14 17:15:53

What's your daughter doing now, WestieMamma? Did things get easier once her autism was diagnosed?

RockinHippy Thu 23-Jan-14 17:23:01

Just spotted the apology OP smile

got to admit "boasty mums" make me giggle a bit to myself too, I suspect those with the truly brighter kids soon learn to button it for their DCs sake though - the rest, well, lets just say I know one or two...

BlackeyedSusan Thu 23-Jan-14 17:23:33

Lots of people ask about their toddler and preschooler as this is when, for some the giftedness begins to show. It is not done to ask people in real life. There is a wide range of IQs that are considered gifted... the further away from the average IQ, the more likely there are to be associated difficulties.

Schools often fail to recognise gifted children, at least at first, for numerous reasons, and sometimes because the child does not present ss the stereotype of a gifted child. I know of several children where this has been the case and parents have in desperation had their child tested by an educational psychologist. I tested dd as school were strongly implying that I was hothousing her and damaging her socially... refuted by the ed psych. having someone to compare notes with at this time was massively helpful for me in deciding what course of action to take.

FaintlyHopeful Thu 23-Jan-14 17:23:38

Having a high iq can come with related developmental delays and managing it can be awful. My daughter is in the gifted range but had speech delay. She was deferred from school because she needed speech therapy and pretty much stopped talking when her friends moved on to school. No real choice because her speech was barely comprehensible but she was heartbroken to lose her close friends en masse and its still an issue 4 years on.

WestieMamma Thu 23-Jan-14 17:30:42

Her autism was diagnosed once we emigrated. Here they realised there was something unusual going on straight away. The IQ test was part of that process. She's had support ever since and is now doing brilliantly. She's doing a history degree at the moment and is hoping to move to campus in August. She's also starting to make friends which is the biggest achievement. I do feel really sad though that she was unsupported for so long. Even when she started hurting herself nobody listened to me.

TheBigBumTheory Thu 23-Jan-14 17:32:11

Most parents with very intelligent children are the opposite of 'boasty'. They avoid discussing their child's progress for fear of looking boasty or being met with genuine disbelief. It's socially acceptable to mention your dcs are exceptional at football or drama, but for academic subjects it's often seen as bragging. At least on G and T boards it's usually the one place where it's ok to discuss issues. Sometimes it's hard for dcs like this to find peers who can relate to them and their interests.

TunipTheUnconquerable Thu 23-Jan-14 17:34:55

Well done her, Westie - that's lovely to hear.

harticus Thu 23-Jan-14 17:37:59

Good to see OP spotted error of her ways.

It isn't easy to have a child who is "advanced" - causes all manner of problems and situations that need addressing - social as well as academic.
It is useful to have support and advice from others in a similar position.

Thatisall Thu 23-Jan-14 17:40:18

I didn't know there was a gifted and talented board. I'm glad. My dd is on the gifted and talented register and I often don't feel like I'm allowed to celebrate her achievements in the way that other parents are. She does well. Just because she always does well doesn't mean she hasn't had to work for it or that it shouldn't be congratulated.

Equally when she has issues sometimes they are such that others might be a little confused for example, dd struggled with fractions and freaked out. Her teacher suggested that she hadn't quite 'learnt to learn' things that didn't come easily. She was frightened that she would get in trouble or that we'd be disappointed. We hadn't realised how much pressure she was feeling. I'm glad that there is a board for people to sound off about their thoughts and worries.

Boaty Thu 23-Jan-14 17:41:36

My DS1 scored very highly in IQ tests, got scholarships/bursaries to good schools but consistently from the age of 15 underachieved and has a criminal record. sad He was born with innate ability but has no direction in life. He knows he is very intelligent but doesn't use it or any common sense.
I would have welcomed advice and support to try to help him.

he makes a lousy criminal too, he keeps getting caught grin

MamaPingu Thu 23-Jan-14 17:50:28

I was gifted and talented, just boasting for fun. grin

I don't think there's anything wrong with a G&T section, like it has been said what are parents meant to do with children who are unbelievably intelligent who are bored to tears and even feel like outcasts because of it!

Ubik1 Thu 23-Jan-14 18:08:54

There was a really interesting thread about G&T a few years where posters with extremely high IQs talked about their experiences. Fir many things had been quite tough - got into top university and then struggled with life, pressure, mental health. Of course these things are not exclusive to people with high intelligence by a long stretch but neither does it protect you from every day pressures.

One poster made the point that it was important G&T did things they were not good at, it taught them 'to learn' and resilience.

( I plan to make my fortune opening a 'Montessori School fur Gifted Children' in our area which is thoroughly bo'ho'd and bugabood. grin)

LaFataTurchina Thu 23-Jan-14 18:19:21

Me too grin

I quite enjoyed it, we got to have an enrichment activity one afternoon every few weeks after school - usually a debate, or something in the science labs.

I wasn't so clever as to be bored at school, but it was nice to have something just for us geeky top set children.

More seriously though, I grew up on an estate and am the first of my family to go to university. My self-esteem probably really benefited from being labelled clever. When I got to university (red brick oxbridge reject type place) it really surprised me how few students from backgrounds like mine there were. Whereas I was lucky in that I had supportive parents and supportive teachers so I always saw school - university - fulfilling career as the natural progression.

I found that I rarely posted on here about my ds and his struggles; asking about his IEPs and how to deal with the schools attitude, the moving schools (and house) and the subsequent joy and freedom of a suitable school because of threads such as this one. Though I allow that you've taken on bored what people have said op. It meant that we lost out on support we really could have done with. He's not actually on the g&t register as he is now at private but he was before.

On the other hand I have felt free to talk about my dd, her IEP and her struggles at the other end of the spectrum on other sections.

Fleta Thu 23-Jan-14 18:54:19

Kids go up and down,truly gifted children are rare and many gifted or very able children like my DS are perfectly able to get on just fine without a lot of hoo ha.My ex teacher hat is on here.

I'm not sure who mentioned "hoo-ha".

My child doesn't know just how bloody gifted she is. I find it useful to have somewhere (actually on a completely different forum to MN but same idea) to chat to parents in a similar situation. Things as simple as finding reading matter than is intellectually challenging enough but emotionally her age - which is 7!

I suppose it is different for us because she's at private prep and they don't have to have "x" number of gifted and talented but have the man power in school to deal with it. For example she learns with her peers but has work from higher classes to do etc.

FanFuckingTastic Thu 23-Jan-14 19:06:18

In some cases I am fairly sure that G+T kids don't have SEN, but in others I'll beg to differ. I was without diagnosis for my entire school history, and I am now learning to cope with the fact that I have HFA. My children both show signs of being the same. Their intelligence comes with a flip side that means they have emotional and behavioural difficulties also.

My son taught himself to read in nursery, but he doesn't know how to interact socially very well and has a trigger hair temper when he doesn't know how to handle things. He also has difficulty with social communication, especially things like gratitude and says and does things that people can't understand, unless they know him like I do. He isn't rude, he is misunderstood because he finds expression difficult. He is very sensitive emotionally, and he needs to be in an environment where he can focus, which he doesn't manage very well. His teachers all express that he is dreamy and finds concentration difficult.

My daughter is behaviourally a bit of a nightmare. She wants what she wants and when she doesn't get it, she will behave in a very difficult way. I've had her brought home by the police aged four after working out how to get past extra locks and alarms put in place to stop her escaping. She went on a middle of the night jaunt and had (still has) no concept of danger or risk. She's destructive when she melts down, but socially she fares better than her brother because she is less passive and more in control. She does however do things that make people uncomfortable, too much physical contact, not respecting space, forgetting that there are other people in the classroom and everything does not revolve around her. She also barely sleeps and has a weird body clock, she'll happily wake at 2am and play for hours before school, then go to school and behave badly because she's tired.

They are both wonderful children, but they are also overwhelming. I had to give them to their fathers when I got made homeless, I'm disabled physically and I was getting to a point where I couldn't keep my daughter safe from herself any more. Intelligence is more than just being smart, it can come with difficulties, and since I've lived that, I aim to ensure my children don't turn out the same way as I do.

FanFuckingTastic Thu 23-Jan-14 19:09:41

I think my daughter got a double whammy, because her dad has ADHD and I have Aspergers. She's just trying to learn to make sense of the world with a brain that doesn't quite fit the norm. My son has his own difficulties with being half deaf and that lack of concentration, he is scarily intelligent, but trying to mould that into something useful for him is going to take some doing.

jellyandcake Thu 23-Jan-14 19:47:49

I don't think my toddler is G&T so wasn't personally offended by the sneery OP...But as a probably middle class mummy who did attend NCT, I am a bit offended by the sneery apology - didn't come across as terribly gracious to me!

appletarts Thu 23-Jan-14 19:51:16

YANBU fromparistoberlin to wonder why it's a problem for some people. Gifted and talented is not classed as a SN in the same way as other additional learning needs. But yes run for the hills because the people on aibu at the moment are a bit, how shall we word it? Precious.

lljkk Fri 24-Jan-14 19:01:50

I am sorry I snapped at you OP. but you can see it's an emotive topic.

superstarheartbreaker Fri 24-Jan-14 19:05:52

Let's celebrate gifted and talented types shAll we?

fromparistoberlin Sat 25-Jan-14 20:55:48

thats OK lljk

I like it when we can all resolve sans name calling grin

wobblyweebles Sat 25-Jan-14 23:03:29

I hadn't realised there is a G&T board here so am going to have a look at it.

They take the top 5% here and put them in what's called the Talents program. Not sure if it's nationwide or just our state.

Catsize Sat 25-Jan-14 23:17:17

Not sure how this will come across, but I was G&T. Probably. But it was 1983 when I went to school a year early (Mum couldn't deal with me at home and GP recommended I go early as I 'needed stimulation' etc.), and this was not recognised as a special need.
Moved schools a year or two later, was put 'down' a class (to my true year group), as the school did not believe in having children ahead of their year group. This was a small village school. So, I felt like I was amongst much younger children, and was not told why.
All through primary, I set myself challenges and invented lessons and homework for myself in the school holidays. Net result? A kid who stood out, who the teachers didn't bother teaching as she could do it already (I just thought they ignored me as they didn't like me) and a kid who was bullied for being different.
I do not like the G&T label, for a variety of reasons, but can agree that there are 'issues' for parents and teachers of children who are deemed such.

Jinsei Sun 26-Jan-14 00:03:13

Most parents with very intelligent children are the opposite of 'boasty'. They avoid discussing their child's progress for fear of looking boasty or being met with genuine disbelief.


The ones who boast, IME, tend to have children who are bright but not exceptional.

If you have a child who is truly gifted, you will probably be so eager for your child to be perceived as "normal" that you tend to downplay their abilities. I don't think many parents would want to draw attention to them.

LadyBeagleEyes Sun 26-Jan-14 00:07:12

No Gifted and talented in Scotland, I'd never heard of it till I joined Mumsnet.
Doesn't seem to have damaged our education system in any way.

Jinsei Sun 26-Jan-14 00:17:19

No Gifted and talented in Scotland, I'd never heard of it till I joined Mumsnet. Doesn't seem to have damaged our education system in any way.

Maybe not, but I don't think Scottish schools necessarily cater that well for bright children. Certainly, my DNephew's needs have not been met, whereas my dd in England has had differentiated work and targets from the start. I realise that this may be partly due to a difference between individual schools.

Trubloff Sun 26-Jan-14 00:45:00

I've never posted on the G&T board but when I was 8, back in the mid 1970s I was identified as 'gifted'. It was purely based on my reading ability, which was supposedly that of a 14 year old. I was put up into the top groups for all subjects which was a mistake. Reading and English comprehension I was brilliant at. Maths and science subjects not so much. I seriously struggled in those classes but was still put in the top groups when we moved up to middle and high schools. It was pressure I did not need and I only got my maths O Level by going to extra lessons at lunch time.

My reading ability has improved year on year. I can read a book from start to finish in an evening. But don't ever ask me to do any mental arithmetic. And I've only ever been asked to score at darts once..... I work as a finance professional but am never expected to perform calculations on the spot. I have to read, analyse and evaluate stuff. Perfect for me!

G&T seems like a great initiative but it has to take account of all the DCs needs and not leave them struggling and miserable in other areas. I think that very few DC are gifted and talented in everything that they are expected to do.

Dawndonnaagain Sun 26-Jan-14 10:54:09

I too have tended not to discuss things out of school. I have three with ASDs they are all G&T. They struggle in many, many other ways. Ds2 is at uni now. He is getting consistent firsts in his first year. He has phoned from inside his trunk, under his covers, in the drawers under the bed and has to be guided out. Now the uni have dealt with the bullying and moved him, that is less frequent. However, we still have guide him through eating a meal most nights. Send texts daily reminding him to eat and drink. I have had what seems like a million texts a night at the time (one night was 164, I counted) but he gets firsts. So yes fromparis there is a need and I'm chuffed to pieces that you could see it, that makes it easier if you ever come across my children.

A nice post on the g&t board.

That's board, not bored as I put earlier blush

Picturesinthefirelight Sun 26-Jan-14 11:57:24

Oddly enough at parents vening at DDS new school (a school solely for talented children) her form tutor asked us if wed considered she may be on the spectrum.

It would explain such a lot socially.

We know ds has aspergers but whereas his obsessions are a huge problem at school etc in dd it was always glossed over in a oh well she's talented & focused and dedicated sort of way.

Dawndonnaagain Sun 26-Jan-14 13:46:53

Pictures AS and HFA notoriously under diagnosed in girls, may well be worth checking out, I have a ds and two dds with AS.

Picturesinthefirelight Sun 26-Jan-14 14:04:46

her school don't think there is a need for a diagnosis as apart from a few social foibles and quirks its not causing her any problems unlike ds (were having to pay for a private Ed psych for him).

She's in a school full of children who share her obsession (dance & performing)

manicinsomniac Sun 26-Jan-14 21:45:49

nerfmother - are you sure it definitely doesn't fit an SEN profile?

I'll have to show my independent school system ignorance here gut what actually qualifies as an S*E*N and what as an SN?

Because the only truly gifted child I currently teach is also HFA, has OCD, is unable to empathise or see right from wrong and has moderate-severe EBD. This child has an ed-psych, an IEP, specialist lessons, mentoring and counselling. The child certainly seems SEN to me.

Or are all those things SNs/ANs?
(genuine ignorance not goadiness; we just put all children who need something different or additional to the majority on the same list at our school - from heart conditions to dyslexia to autism to giftedness - it's all termed SEND)

manicinsomniac Sun 26-Jan-14 21:46:55

*but not gut

Nerfmother Mon 27-Jan-14 22:43:00

Special educational need is defined in the sen code of practice (2001) but will be the same in new sencop as (from memory) having a learning difficulty that calls for special educational provision something something. Yes, I'm sure that on its own it's not an sen. Equally, a child or young person could have sen and be gifted.
SN is special need, so away from education.

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