AIBU or is my new DH?

(414 Posts)
Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 08:30:33

DP and I married last month and he moved in with me, the honeymoon period is over already.

We sat down and worked out our incomings and outgoings. Just the very basics, rent, food, petrol, electric, gas, bills etc. We both work. DH earns more than me.

Anyhow once incoming and outgoings were worked out, I suggest we could either put all our money together, pay for the basics, then whatever is left we decide whether to save or what to spend it on. DH didn't want to do this.

The only other way I could think of was we pay half each of the basic outgoings. DH agreed to this. This leaves DH with £1,000 and me with £200 spare.

I have 2 kids from a previous relationship. Out of my £200 spare, I pay for anything they need, school dinners, uniform, haircuts, clothes, school trips etc, etc.

Come pay day, he put his half into my account. Then started to say why should he pay for everything ie there are 3 of us and only 1 of him. So if the electric bill for example comes to £80, I should pay £60, he should pay £20.

DH has 2 kids too from a previous relationship who he hasn't seen for 2 years. He wants to start Court proceedings and says how he is supposed to do that if he is having to pay for my kids.

I feel like getting a divorce already.

So AIBU?

I think he is bu and childish

kilmuir Thu 23-Jan-14 08:32:55

Blimey, surprised this was not sorted/discussed before the wedding. He is being unreasonable.

OnIlkelyMoorBahtat Thu 23-Jan-14 08:33:36

He sounds a right charmer sad

pointythings Thu 23-Jan-14 08:33:38

Nope. Your household costs are shared, but should be shared pro rata. He has chosen to marry you and that means you and your DC are his family now - paying only for 'his' electricity use reveals him as a petty, selfish, mean-spirited man who is likely to abuse you financially if he is not donig so already.

If he's doing this now, he will only get worse so get rid. I am very sorry that he has turned out to have such feet of clay.

5madthings Thu 23-Jan-14 08:34:03

he is being unreasonable.

but how did you not talk about finances etc before you got married?!!

WaitMonkey Thu 23-Jan-14 08:34:33

No, but this should have been discussed before you married. What happened before the marriage, did you not like together ? He sounds a total arse, I couldn't live with him.

Facebaffle Thu 23-Jan-14 08:35:22

Your dh ibu. He hasn't grasped the idea of a partnership.

If you go out for a meal together, who pays the bill?

Helpyourself Thu 23-Jan-14 08:36:16

I think you should get a divorce already, yes.
Do not have a baby to fix this, btw, it won't.

He is being absolutely unreasonable..Im very surprised this wasn't sorted before you got married TBH...he is being a selfish twat who has no actual clue.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Thu 23-Jan-14 08:37:32

Totally unreasonable. There's 3 of you and 1 of him? Wtf?

He has a family now, he didn't just marry you. The money should be shared between all of you.

He's moaning about paying for your kids? Was he not aware of them or something? He's a total idiot. You need to sort this out.

eddielizzard Thu 23-Jan-14 08:37:57

omfg. here you make a stand. no fucking way can this continue.

magesticmallow Thu 23-Jan-14 08:38:03

This should totally have been discussed before, how did you manage before he moved in? Don't get me wrong I think you are right but if he moved in with you and is now paying half then surely you are financially better off? How did you pay full rent before he moved in if you only have £200 left over now?

feltpaperchains Thu 23-Jan-14 08:38:10

I think this really should have been discussed before you got married. Now you will have to compromise.
Everyone does this differently, some people think that finances should be completely separate and some people combine finances. The electricity should be paid half and half as he knew you had dependants when he agreed to live with you, it's the two adults who have to pay for that. That's obvious.
I think that you should pay for your children and he should pay for his.
What will you do if you want to go on holiday, it will take you ages to save up for your share?
It's a tricky one sorry probably not very helpful.

Hopasholic Thu 23-Jan-14 08:38:12

Tell him it's a Marriage, not a flat share. Is he going to start writing his name on 'his' milk?
He is BU. YABU for not having this discussion prior to getting married.

SugarMiceInTheRain Thu 23-Jan-14 08:39:08

Wow, sounds like you made a bit of a mistake with this one. He clearly doesn't understand what it is to be in a partnership. Resources should be pooled amd you should each have the same amount of disposable income. Come on, it's not as if your DC can pay their share of the bills!

Only1scoop Thu 23-Jan-14 08:39:15

Didnt you live together prior to wedding? Did you have any discussions re money or has this just been decided?

magesticmallow Thu 23-Jan-14 08:40:33

He is a tight ass though and you are totally right, I just wondered about the rent smile

He doesn't seem to see this as a partnership but still two separate people with separate responsibilities and incomes - the household income should be both of your money as you're building one future together. Why would a husband watch his wife struggle?

Did you suggest putting a percentage into the joint bills account? Eg you both put on 50% of your wage rather than a set figure? You'd still have less expendable income than him but he would be making a greater contribution and can't argue that it's not 'fair' as you're making the same salary sacrifice.

Does he pay for other things? Takeaways, days out etc?

ShanghaiDiva Thu 23-Jan-14 08:41:40

Your husband is being an arse. Perhaps your children should get part time jobs to enable them to pay their share of the electricity. He probably eats more them them, so make sure he pays more for food!

Personally as you are now a family I think all money should be put together and after bills you jointly decide how to allocate the remainder. Naturally this should include the costs of court proceedings re his kids. You both need to support all 4 of the children.

cornflakegirl Thu 23-Jan-14 08:41:41

It does sound a little mean, and personally I've always had joint money with my DH. But, two questions come to mind. Firstly, if he's now sharing rent, and covering his costs on other bills, are you not financially better off than before? (Or have you lost some benefits?) Secondly, does he pay maintenance for his children? And does this also come out of family money?

Orangeisthenewbanana Thu 23-Jan-14 08:42:08

YANBU - "3 of you & only 1 of him". That tells you straight away he doesn't consider you to be a family unit. And even taking your children out of the picture for
a second, how can he think it's fair for you to contribute equally to household costs when that leaves him with five times as much disposable income compared to you. Every month.

However - YABU in the sense that this should have been talked about way before you got married!

CoffeeTea103 Thu 23-Jan-14 08:42:24

Well you should have had this discussion before you married. You walked right into this one.

VivaLeBeaver Thu 23-Jan-14 08:43:10

I'd ask him to leave. sad

feltpaperchains Thu 23-Jan-14 08:43:18

I don't really agree that disposable income should be pooled. I am training to be a teacher and when I'm working my DP wants to cut his hours right back so he can get into creative pursuits. Fine, but not at my expense. If he wants to be at home most of the week that's his choice but I am going to spend my well earned income on clothes for myself and coffees when I'm out not supporting him.
It would be different if we had a baby, I would regard that as my job and would then expect to be able to use his money for a couple of years.

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 08:45:14

We didn't live together before. He would just come and stay for weekends.

Before we were married he was totally different and I really didn't think it would be an issue.

He did apologise after we argued about it and said he was wrong. However, last night I mentioned I have to go to local supermarket to pick up a few bits and asked did he need anything. He responded with giving me a lecture about spending money that we cant afford and you don't HAVE to go, remember that petrol has to last a month etc, etc.

which resulted in another argument and his apology was obviously not sincere and his resentment obviously continues.

KiwiBanana Thu 23-Jan-14 08:45:55

I think the OP gets now that this should have been discussed, no need for everyone to keep pointing that out!

He is being very unreasonable OP. Is he this selfish with anything else or just money?

Summerblaze Thu 23-Jan-14 08:46:17

What a selfish dick you have married. I firmly believe that once you are a partnership, all money goes in one pot, bills taken from that pot and anymore left over is for the family to spend/save.

When we got married i earned more. Now we have dc and work part time, dh earns more. Swings and roundabouts and what it is like being part of a team.

I couldnt live with someone who was such a greedy bastard.

Grennie Thu 23-Jan-14 08:48:00

I am totally shocked at your husband's behaviour. Please, whatever you do, don't have a baby together unless things change dramatically.

He is acting as if he is a single man who is living in a shared house, rather than a family. If you are acting as part of a family, why would you want your wife and step children to struggle financially while you have lots of disposable income?

This should be the time when he really wants to make you happy and is treating you extra well. The fact that he is behaving like this already is extremely worrying.

Only1scoop Thu 23-Jan-14 08:48:01

So Op he is now resentful of you buying....FOOD angry

hoobypickypicky Thu 23-Jan-14 08:49:31

It's too late and not helpful to tell the OP she should have sorted money matters out prior to marriage. She knows that now, give her a break! smile

Hadenough8, sit him down and explain to him very clearly that he lives as part of a family now, not as a flatsharer. He has taken on two children as his own and if he can't do that then he has absolutely no place in their lives. He needs to be given a stark choice - to accept that the children's financial welfare is a shared responsibility or to fuck off out of their home right here, right now.

That he "wants to start court proceedings" to see the kids he hasn't seen for two years is a red herring. If he gave a shit about them he'd have started those court proceedings 2 years ago. Support him to see his children by all means - though what you want with a man who hasn't seen his own kids for 2 years is beyond me and why you'd put him in a house with yours is a mystery - but don't let him use that "poor me, poor my kids" wail as an excuse to shit on yours, because that's all it will be.

SavoyCabbage Thu 23-Jan-14 08:50:14

This reminds me of my mums friend who I saw yesterday. She married when her and her dh's dc were older teens. They have been married thirty years.

She has had this all her life. She would have to pay for the lightbulb in the dining room as she used that room most, she had to replace the spare room carpet as her daughter slept there more often etc . He charged her 50p for a lift to work.

He has left the house and everything in it to his daughter who is in her fifties. He even tried to get the widows pension his dw will be entitled to paid to his dd.

The dw has had a miserable life for thirty years constantly talking about money and who should pay for what.

Summerblaze Thu 23-Jan-14 08:50:54

Feltpaper. So you dont want to support him with his ventures but when you want a baby you will happily take his money. Wow, very equalshock.

feltpaperchains Thu 23-Jan-14 08:51:20

My dad had 2 of us and his partner had 2, he paid for us she paid for them, but bills and food were jointly paid. It seemed to work for them.

cornflakegirl Thu 23-Jan-14 08:52:06

You do need to sit down and have a calm, unemotional discussion about money and your attitudes to spending. And how you support all four children.

But I don't like the way so many posters are saying you need to pool money. Lots of people make it work in different ways. You need to work out what is right for you.

feltpaperchains Thu 23-Jan-14 08:52:23

Summerblaze It will be both of our baby, his idea of living on the dole and doing art is not both of our baby so yes it is fair.

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 08:52:46

Kiwi, I am beginning to see a very selfish, irrational side that either wasn't there before or I didn't notice. Maybe a good advert for living together before marriage!

For example he sat there during dinner saying how he had seen a nice jumper he was going to buy for himself, he was going to go and join a gym etc. Then later I mentioned I was going to go to the supermarket to pick up a few things for a recipe and I get a lecture about how we cant afford to spend money and I should drive the car if I HAVE to, to save on petrol money!

Grennie Thu 23-Jan-14 08:54:49

Savoy - That is so so sad.

My mum has a friend whose husband earns a really good wage. He gives her a small bit of "housekeeping". While he goes out to expensive golf club lunches, she struggles to afford the bus fare to visit my disabled mum. I would hate to live like this and I think if you really love someone, you would not want to treat them like this.

BruthasTortoise Thu 23-Jan-14 08:55:46

Any person that marries someone with DC, especially minor and resident DC, and doesn't treat them as children of the family is a bad egg. If he doesn't have a massive change if attitude very very soon then I would leave him. Are you and your DC worse off because he has moved in btw? If you were previously getting tax credits I'd assume they've stopped?

Summerblaze Thu 23-Jan-14 08:56:16

But his living on the dole should be both of your decision too. If it is not agreed by the two of you then he should not do it or go about it another way. If he has no job, how will he pay for you and a baby anyway.

Grennie Thu 23-Jan-14 08:56:21

Hadenough - Please don't let this drift. Talk to him frankly about how this has to change.

And if he doesn't, please don't let pride keep you in an awful relationship.

DH has 2 kids too from a previous relationship who he hasn't seen for 2 years. He wants to start Court proceedings and says how he is supposed to do that if he is having to pay for my kids.

Is he paying for those kids? Why are you with someone who hasn't seen their kids for 2 years?

He is basically letting your children subsidize him as he certainly isn't paying 3x more electric with them in the house is he? As an adult he would have paid half if they were someone else. Nice for him I guess.

Divorce him you made a huge mistake.

How long were you together before you got married?

feltpaperchains Thu 23-Jan-14 08:57:35

He is obviously very scared. It's one thing having a girlfriend, quite another trying to live in a domestic situation harmoniously and everyone feeling their needs are being met.
I agree with cornflake, you really crucially need to sit down and discuss this in a non emotional way. It wont get any better without heaps of discussion an listening.
Good luck.

hoobypickypicky Thu 23-Jan-14 08:58:47

"when I'm working my DP wants to cut his hours right back so he can get into creative pursuits. Fine, but not at my expense."

Feltpaper, I agree with you entirely, you haven't got children so shouldn't be expected to work to pay for your non working/part time working partner's luxuries, but the OP has got kids, it's a completely different situation.

Monetbyhimself Thu 23-Jan-14 08:58:54

Why on earth would you expect someone who hasn't seen their children for 2 years ti be a decent, selfless man ?

etoo Thu 23-Jan-14 08:59:08

Wow, this sounds crazy. I'm not one to jump on the LTB bandwagon but in all honestly unless he very quickly (like, today) changes his attitude to this a divorce may well be the best option.

sebsmummy1 Thu 23-Jan-14 09:01:32

This is a very bad sign one month in.

My Mother and Father have this sort of relationship. My father quibbles with her over a fiver, if she goes to the supermarket and buys food for him he owes her that money etc. It is totally toxic and they have not had a happy marriage.

Financial harmony is one if the cornerstones to a healthy relationship IMO, and you don't have it. Because you don't have it you will bite your tongue, start simmering and harbouring resentments and this will erupt into frequent petty disagreements.

I don't know what you can do really as you cannot change his mindset. It is obvious he doesn't see your children as his family. He is keen to reestablish a connection with his own children and will only resent any other commitments that stop him from doing that.

I know I seem like a total drama llama but I would be looking into annulment.

feltpaperchains Thu 23-Jan-14 09:01:43

Summerblaze You can't stop someone from living how they wish to live, if he wants to do that it's up to him, as long as it's viable, I would resent it affecting me negatively though especially if I was working hard all week. When and if we have a baby, he would work to support us because he's a decent man, so it's a non-issue.

CoffeeTea103 Thu 23-Jan-14 09:02:49

You have really poor judgement, you married him knowing his situation and how he treats his own kids, you didn't have that all important discussion of how your household will be run, you didn't live together to see how he adjusts to your kids. Hope you finally see the light and make the right decisions.

I'm so sorry OP. You really do need to confront this now or it will just get worse and worse, and his behaviour is really unacceptable.

It doesn't sound like he's even a good father, so it's not surprising that he sucks as a stepfather too.

Lancelottie Thu 23-Jan-14 09:03:20

If he's moved in and you are married, then legally he WILL be expected to be contributing to your combined household, hence he will be taken into account when considering any benefits, tax credits or council tax.

Is he a bit dim?

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 09:05:20

Cornflake, we did sit down and have a calm, unemotional talk about money. We worked out outgoings and incomings etc and agreed on what we would do.

IF he wanted to put all our money together, pay for the basics and then save to start court proceedings, that would be fine.

But he didn't want to do that, he wanted to pay half of the outgoings, keep his £1,000. He can do what he likes with 'his' £1,000.

FoxOff Thu 23-Jan-14 09:05:39

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

PavlovtheCat Thu 23-Jan-14 09:05:40

ok, no point saying this should have been sorted earlier!

You are now married. It is not 3 of you and 1 of him. It is 4 of you as a family. Whether or not the father of the children is involved in their life, he is now married to you, which means he is stepfather to your children, which means you are family. He needs to get his head around this asap as he clearly has not already.

So, the electricity is split 50/50. The children's school shoes, clothes etca are paid for as a family bill. Unless of course you get payments from the children's father, in which firstly, that money pays for those things. The rest comes from joint family income.

In terms of splitting the spare cash, different people have different ways of doing this. I earn more than my DH. If we followed your principle I would have more than him, ie I would have a little and he would have none. That is not a relationship. We pool together all our money to pay bills, ALL family bills. Not 50/50, but all our money goes into a joint bank account for bills. If we have spare, we split it equally. If we don't have spare, we don't have one having money and the other not.

PavlovtheCat Thu 23-Jan-14 09:06:47

And, he doesn't want to pay for your children and his? well then he should not have married someone with children.

petalsandstars Thu 23-Jan-14 09:07:53

If he doesn't want to pool finances and live properly as a family then tell him to move back out again.

PavlovtheCat Thu 23-Jan-14 09:08:15

magestic your point might have been answered already, but perhaps the OP was receiving tax credits which she is no longer entitled to due to living with her working partner.

Preciousbane Thu 23-Jan-14 09:14:12

There is no way that you can live like this, you may not need to have a joint account, DH and I don't. We do however have a pooled money attitude which means I have always had as much income at my disposal as him though he was earning almost x4 what I did.

You will fall out of love with your new DH very quickly. I think you need to lay it on the line and if he does not change his attitude 100% then it is over and he needs to move out.

Have you actually ended up worse with him moving in if you were getting tax credits?

GuernseyTeddy Thu 23-Jan-14 09:14:13

I guess a lot of this depends on your previous financial set up, and to what extent your children's father is financially supporting them.

You don't mention how you previously managed without him contributing to 50% of household expenses...tax credits for example. And whether you are financially worse off because he is now living with you.

With reg to your children's father - is he at least paying CSA 15%.

Your new husband hasn't acquitted himself well, but it may just be that he got defensive in an argument and wasn't able to put his points across the way he meant. Your leaving financial discussions until after you were married, may have come a bit across like you intend to treat him like a cash cow now you are married.

cornflakegirl Thu 23-Jan-14 09:22:07

So, you had the talk but now you don't like the decision you jointly made? Are you actually financially worse off than before you married?

I think you need to talk again. If he feels the arrangement is fair (and in some senses it is, and I know other families who do money that way, even though I wouldn't myself), then you need to decide if it's a deal breaker for you.

PavlovtheCat Thu 23-Jan-14 09:22:32

precious I agree you don't need a joint account. DH and I didn't have one for a long time, it worked fine. We joint our finances when he was made redundant, as it was very hard and shot his esteem to have to ask me for money, or for my card if he was doing the shopping. So, I paid all my money into joint account with CTC etc and he had free access. But, I was fine with that free access as he didn't go larging it with friends or buying expensive computer games. He would check if there was enough to get a new top, but not because it was 'my' money. I just have a better handle on how much we have left over each month. I would also check if he was happy if I was going to get a new top/haircut whatever. So, now he is working again, we just continue this set-up as it's all set up. One account for DDs/bills. One account for joint daily expenses such as fuel, shopping etc, and our own individual accounts for the rare times we have more than a few quid spare to split!

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 09:24:05

Yes I received tax credits etc. I am no worse/better off than before. My children's father disappeared, he has had no contact and I have no idea where he is. He pays nothing.

I think it's ok not to have a joint account, and I even think it's fair for the person who earns more to have more discretionary income.

But to say you have to pay for all your children's expenses alone is not reasonable, and the idea that he should only contribute a third because of your children is not only selfish but stupid.

Somersetlady Thu 23-Jan-14 09:25:32

Am I the only one that can see where the DH is coming from to some extent? I think he is being unreasonable of course for quibbling about paying half the rent and food bills but just imagine if you were suddenly told that your disposable earnings were going to be dramatically cut and the idea had never crossed your mind......

I agree it's not very helpful to tell the OP that it should have been discussed before and her DH does sound like a miser but he must have assumed she was able to continue to finance herself and her DCs as she has done prior to marriage?
Probably to assume that in fact she would be better off if he was to pay towards their existing living expenses?

hadenough8 you mention he moved in with you post marriage do you mind me asking how you managed financially before he moved in if you were paying all the rent and bills? Surely excluding his 'additional' disposable income you are now better off financially if you are getting half of the rent paid by him and some should be half of the bills?

I am with cornflake and feltpaperchains i think now is the time to discuss this as adults. Treat it like the merger it is so you both draw up a list of your incomings and outgoings pre him moving in/ marrying you and he does the same.
You can then go from there with regards to the current outgoings for living together as a family unit so all the necessaries. The fact he does not wish to pool his additional disposable income is not a hanging offence but there must be a way you can work it out. How about he pays an amount into a savings account for a rainy day for when you need it as a family.

There are many options for how you finance your life together noneof which is right or wrong and maybe one step at a time will lead to something more harmonious t you are both happy with. Remember your FH is newly married and adjusting to the situation as re you and his ideas of how things would be are just as valid as yours if you never discussed them you can not just expect him to suddenly come round to your way of thinking.

I hope that you can come to an amicable arrangement. Good luck

Somersetlady Thu 23-Jan-14 09:26:19

Sorry cross post!

CocktailQueen Thu 23-Jan-14 09:27:33

*Hadenough8, sit him down and explain to him very clearly that he lives as part of a family now, not as a flatsharer. He has taken on two children as his own and if he can't do that then he has absolutely no place in their lives. He needs to be given a stark choice - to accept that the children's financial welfare is a shared responsibility or to fuck off out of their home right here, right now.

That he "wants to start court proceedings" to see the kids he hasn't seen for two years is a red herring. If he gave a shit about them he'd have started those court proceedings 2 years ago. Support him to see his children by all means - though what you want with a man who hasn't seen his own kids for 2 years is beyond me and why you'd put him in a house with yours is a mystery - but don't let him use that "poor me, poor my kids" wail as an excuse to shit on yours, because that's all it will be.*

This ^^

cornflakegirl Thu 23-Jan-14 09:28:20

When you talked about money, was the plan that you cover costs for your children and he for his?

BrunoBrookesDinedAlone Thu 23-Jan-14 09:30:24

This is really bad news.

You've only been married a month - for him to change so quickly-well, it really looks as if this is pretty deliberate, and you've married a right bastard.

He's already got a great deal btw. Basically, he's moved into your house and has managed to cut his living costs dramatically -bet he didn't have £1k fun money before. Even that split isn't fair! But he wants even more.

Think seriously about getting the marriage annulled. Really.

He won't change.

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 09:30:26

Cornflake, yes we made a joint decision, I am happy with DH paying half of the basic outgoings and me supporting my kids with the £200 i have left. I was happy to do it either way, putting all money together and then deciding whether to save or what to do with spare money, DH didn't want to do this. I suggested the half thing and he was happy to do this. So this is what we agreed.

It is DH who is not happy with the joint decision. He feels I should pay for 3 people (myself and my 2 kids) and he should only pay for himself. The example I already gave electric bill, say it comes to £80, DH thinks I should pay £60 and he pays £20 and so on and on.

MorrisZapp Thu 23-Jan-14 09:35:28

What kind of relationship does he have with your kids? How long have you been with him? Did he split costs fairly before? Who paid for your wedding expenses?

PavlovtheCat Thu 23-Jan-14 09:36:07

I just couldn't/wouldn't feel comfortable with my life partner having pennies left for himself while I had £££ left. Which, once you have paid for your children is what you will have left, pence. So, you are no worse off than before. BUT, you are no worse off, not having any real money to say, go out for a drink with friends, ever. But, while you are not going out, watching the amount of fuel you use so your life partner doesn't have to pay more from his £££, while you go without, he is walking around in new clothes, going out as he wants or whatever things he enjoys doing.

I would not be ok with that, if I was the one with money. And I have been (I guess, technically, if we didn't pool our money, I still would be) that I could be like 'I shall get my hair cut, and look well groomed, and have fun with my friends, but you will have to continue as you are, there will be financial gain from our lifetime commitments, you won't get your haircut as you have no money, and you can't afford a babysitter so can't come out with our friends'. Fuck That Shit.

SparklingMuppet Thu 23-Jan-14 09:37:02

He's a fuckwit, but you know that. Seriously and honestly take a long hard look at what your life is going to be twenty years down the line. Do you actually imagine you won't have divorced him by then? As an outsider going only on what you've posted here, I'd say cut your losses right now and get out. Yes it's only been a month but do you honestly see this being truned into a loving, supportive relationship where you'd trust him with not just your life but your children's as well. What happens if you get run over by a bus tomorrow? You really think you'd trust him to raise them with their best interest truly at heart?

Somersetlady Thu 23-Jan-14 09:37:05

Hadenough8 have you explained to him that there are only 2 adults living in the house and therefore half the costs need to be met by each if this is to work.

If you got to a starting point where he agreed to pay for half of the living costs (evening excluding the DCs 'extras' ) from what you have said you would already be in a better position financially than you were premarriGe disposable income wise. Once this has become the norm you could open the conversation again about the 'extra income' you believe should be pooled.

Only1scoop Thu 23-Jan-14 09:37:12

Op you must sit down literally around the table with him and get some system down which is going to work for both of you. Not sure you have similar values financially though so this could be tough....
I'm not quite understanding the 'saving' to see his kids thing....has he been saving for this since you met him?

GuernseyTeddy Thu 23-Jan-14 09:37:50

Ah okay.

Well the reason you only have £200 a month left for your kids, is primarily due to their non paying father not your new husband. Is it worth you contacting the CSA? They can find him, even if you can't. Even a name and DOB would allow tracing through HMRC tax records.

So that's the first thing I would do - try and make sure my kids' dad was paying his way before castigating their step father for not supporting them.

Do you and your husband both work full time? If you work a lot less hours than him (even to facilitate childcare for your children), then this may be another source of financial incompatibility for you.

My course of action would be a) to try and get child support from your children's father b) help your husband get contact for his children, and arrange child support for them if not already established. If he sees you acting fairly, he's more likely to do the same.

cornflakegirl Thu 23-Jan-14 09:40:52

Ah, okay. Well, it sounds mean, and I wouldn't want to live like that, but not necessarily unfair - presumably it would mean you had roughly the same costs as before he moved in?

My biggest question would be why does he want to do this? Personally I wouldn't want to be married to someone who valued fairness over generosity to others.

Grennie Thu 23-Jan-14 09:41:52

I am not convinced he is going to act at all fairly. Seriously a husband behaving like this one month into a marriage is shocking. And I suspect things will only get worse.

sebsmummy1 Thu 23-Jan-14 09:43:06

Hadenough why don't you sit down with him again and work out the finances based on what he wants. Ie, his idea if you paying for three people and him paying for just himself. See what this leaves you with as disposable income each month and how much it leaves him.

Now assuming your £200 goes down to £50. I would really like to know what his thoughts are on you having £12.50 to spend each week and him having around £300. If he thinks this is ok and you should press ahead I really think you have the answer as to whether this marriage is sustainable.

enriquetheringbearinglizard Thu 23-Jan-14 09:43:57

Little children don't pay bills, they're part of the household expenses. Four bodies in the home, does he think gas, electric, water etc would halve if the kids weren't there?

cornflakegirl Thu 23-Jan-14 09:45:06

I'm still curious about whether he is paying maintenance? Does that come out of his £1000?

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 09:46:08

Morris, he has a good relationship with the kids in terms of playing with them, reading bedtime stories etc, etc. He just doesn't feel that he should have to contribute financially for anyone but himself, when he needs money to start court proceedings to see his own kids.

Even this is conflicting as he says he needs money to start proceedings, then will go and buy clothes for himself, gym memberships, haircut once a month etc, etc. He has also had 2 years prior to being married to save towards court proceedings and he hasn't.

My parents paid for the wedding.

GinOnTwoWheels Thu 23-Jan-14 09:47:31

What sort of hours do you both work and who looks after the house?

There's more to contribute to a relationship than who pays for what and I agree that he should pay at least half, and probably more, as he is a much higher earner. Is he close to the level where you would be in danger of losing your child benefit?

Does he do an equal share of cooking/housework/DIY/gardening, or does he try to argue that you should do more of that too, due to your DCs contributing more washing etc?

Pobblewhohasnotoes Thu 23-Jan-14 09:48:31

I think that says a lot about how bothered he is about starting court proceedings. I think he's using it as an excuse not to contribute.

cornflakegirl Thu 23-Jan-14 09:50:14

Little children don't pay bills, but if costs (like rent, bills, food) for Hadenough's kids are treated as a shared expense and maibtenance for his kids isn't, that would seem unfair.

BruthasTortoise Thu 23-Jan-14 09:50:23

The children's expenses are a household expense - anything other than that is nonsense. Also regarding the 3/4 to you and 1/4 to him - that's ridiculous and I would honestly get rid of him pretty darn quickly.

bakingtins Thu 23-Jan-14 09:51:24

When you marry someone you become a family unit. "All that I have I give to you, all that is mine I share with you" remember? It was only a month ago, he can't have forgotten already.
I appreciate it is more complicated with blended families, but the fact he wan't your children to pay their share of the bills really tells you all you need to know.
If you can't sort this out so you both feel fairly treated it will corrode your relationship.

Somersetlady Thu 23-Jan-14 09:52:31

hadebough8 did he have a gym membership before he married you? Maybe this is something he never imagined he would have to give up once he was married. I certainly would jot have given up my recreation/hobby as if he uses the gym then surely it's contributes to his health and well being. Surely a mans haircut once a month is under a tenner?

I think the leave him and imagine how it will be in twenty years posts are also most unhelpful. You presumably went into a marriage wanting to make it work. Does he also have savings maybe set aside for the talked about court case?

I agree with Guernseyteddy a good place to start for extra income would be the CSA by trying to make your own DCs father take some financial responsibility for them. It is only fair if you are expecting your DH to do the same.

bakingtins Thu 23-Jan-14 09:52:32

He is of course paying your parents back for "his half" of your wedding from his £1000??

HaroldLloyd Thu 23-Jan-14 09:54:42

In my world you should both agree an amount of spending money you BOTH have each, then everything else pooled.

Out of that if he wants to save for court proceedings fine but you can't carry on scrimping and watching him have 1000 spends per month

That is a HUGE amount of spending money. I would want to be saving some of that up for the future not watching him waste it.

He is being TOTALLY out of order.

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Thu 23-Jan-14 09:55:00

The way he wants to divide utility bills is just ridiculous!

Lemonfairydust Thu 23-Jan-14 09:56:31

Alarm bells ringing rather loudly over here. I'd say give him a kick up the arse or get out of there now, as I can't imagine what he'll be like 5 years down the line if this is right after the wedding! If he feels you should pay more because theres only 1 of him and 3 of you, that tells you everything you need to know about your relationship. He doesn't regard you as a blended family unit, he thinks of himself first, and you and the kids second (And doesn't really seem all that arsed about the three of you by the sounds of it).

Norudeshitrequired Thu 23-Jan-14 09:57:47

My first ever LTB!

What kind of man sees his wife and her children as a separate entity? You are married and should therefore be a joint unit.

You know what, when I met and married DH I knew from the start that I was also marrying into a parental relationship with DSD. We shared everything equally, costs and parenting. When dd1 and 2 came along they just added to the costs. By marrying DH I knew that I was also taking on his child and that included paying for her.

Your "D"H is being a selfish immature prick! He needs to grow up, he either realises that when you marry someone with children you're also taking on responsibility for those children, or fucks off and moves out where he can continue to just pay for himself.

sebsmummy1 Thu 23-Jan-14 09:59:02

I think the fact that Hadenough's parents paid for the wedding will be the reason she stays and puts up with a crap marriage for far longer than she would if it had been a quick 'I Do' at the registry office.

RosegoldRuby Thu 23-Jan-14 10:00:31

This is a huge red flag. On the whole ignoring red flags is unadvisable and leads to pain.
The 2/3, 1/3 split of the fuel bill is ludicrous . The carping about your trip to the supermarket is also hugely unreasonable. Sounds like you could be in for a lifetime of justifying every penny you spend, while he is entitled to spend what he likes.

Suddenly needing to save to see his kids sounds like a diversionary tactic. If you need any more of his money, you're selfishly preventing him seeing his children. Meanwhile he has 1k of fun money which he spends on the gym etc.

This doesn't look good. Keep a clear head, try to get him to talk reasonably about these issues. If he continues to be so unreasonable, watching your spending and so on, get rid.

Really, save yourself the heartache.

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 10:03:14

Guerney yes my childrens father should be contributing towards them. The CSA have tried for years to trace him, he probably isn't even in the Country.

Yes I agree it isn't DH's fault that I am only left with £200 spare. Its no ones fault. Its just the circumstances. I am not castigating him for not supporting them. I am not expecting him to pay for my kids personal expenses, such as clothes, school trips or anything they personally need. I pay for these out of the £200. I am just expecting him to pay half of the basic household bills.

We both work full time and I am currently doing a training course to try and get more pay.

I thought I was helping DH to have contact with his children, I support him morally. I would also be happy for him to have any money I have left over after I have paid for the bare essentials to go towards the cost, while he is paying half of the bills. I have already cut back on food shopping, the phone is switched to incoming calls only, we have downgraded to less internet speed etc, etc.

However it is financially impossible for me to pay for 3 people's share of household expenses to enable him to have more money for proceedings.

MrCabDriver Thu 23-Jan-14 10:03:22

He is being shockingly unreasonable.

By expecting to pay only 'his' share he quite obviously does not see you and your children as his family, he does not appear to have any desire to want to look after you or care for you.

How long have you been together?

Do you think he's always been like that in his life with people?

BookroomRed Thu 23-Jan-14 10:06:30

OP, I hate to say this, but he doesn't sound as if he has at all the right attitude towards his marriage and his new family. He still thinks of himself as an individual only, and appears to see you and his stepchildren as equivalent to strangers in a flat share. It's not just about the money, it's about his basic assumptions about partnership and family.

sebsmummy1 Thu 23-Jan-14 10:07:14

Hadenough you already sound so downtrodden!!!! 'Your' children are meant to now be 'our' children otherwise wtf was the point of marrying this man? You want your children to grow up calling this new man Daddy presumably but he considers all their associated costs as yours.

That is disgusting behaviour and I would be extremely concerned as to how he is going to cope in the future with 'your' children if their behaviour deteriorates as their hormones increase.

BookroomRed Thu 23-Jan-14 10:08:00

OP, you shouldn't be cutting back on food shopping because of your new husband's meanness!

MadBusLady Thu 23-Jan-14 10:09:04

How long have you been together?

I'm afraid I would be amazed if this could be sorted with a reasonable discussion. He's starting so far from "reasonable" - or "loving" or "normal" for that matter - he's off the map. That and the fact that you say you're suddenly seeing a new side to him. Already you've basically volunteered to devote all your "spare" finances to him - and he still wants more?

He doesn't see you as a family, he sees you as a meal ticket. He's kept this in check and this is the real him, would be my guess.

mummytime Thu 23-Jan-14 10:10:02

"He just doesn't feel that he should have to contribute financially for anyone but himself, when he needs money to start court proceedings to see his own kids."

I have no idea why either of you got married, you had a wedding but IMHO you don't have a marriage. A marriage/civil partnership is expressing a joint relationship which includes mutual financial support.

MadBusLady Thu 23-Jan-14 10:10:44

Also, agree with sebsmummy you do sound downtrodden. And like you've lost sight of what's normal in relationships or in finances.

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 10:11:26

Somersetlady, as I said I have no problem with what he spends his £1,000 on, gym membership, haircuts, clothes, whatever. That isn't the problem. I do not expect him to give me any of this money.

I just find it very conflicting that he says he needs to save for court proceedings, hence why he should only pay for his electric, gas, food etc, then spends money on these things. Also spends money on these things, while insisting that I pay for my childrens share of electric, gas, food, bills etc.

MostWicked Thu 23-Jan-14 10:11:55

WTF??? 3 of you and 1 of him? Really?
What a w@anker!
You are a family and he is step father to your children. He should be paying towards them like they were his own.
Forget the financial aspect of this (though that is huge), his attitude to how he views your children, is a disgrace. He married you, and you came with children so your children become his responsibility.

DownstairsMixUp Thu 23-Jan-14 10:13:00

You don't marry someone with kids if you aren't willing to take them on as your own. He would be out the door for me I am afraid.

MadBusLady Thu 23-Jan-14 10:14:29

Well, the logical explanation is that he wants to take your money to fund his lifestyle choices, and he doesn't give a shit about the court proceedings. Nothing "conflicting" about it. He's just lying.

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 10:17:10

Mummytime, prior to the wedding he wasn't like this. Although he never contributed to bills etc, as he wasn't living here. We shared expenses. For example he would pay for us to go out for a meal, the following week I would buy and cook us a lovely dinner, with wine etc.

I just assumed we would continue to share things and this would include household expenses such as bills, once he moved in.

sebsmummy1 Thu 23-Jan-14 10:17:52

Hadenough are you even taking onboard anyone comments? I feel like we are communicating with a Stepford droid.

Listen very carefully. Your husbands behaviour is bordering on CUNT. 95% of us are outraged as to his stance on your shared financial outgoings and we believe if this doesn't get stamped all over now you will be divorcing in the future.

Now what are you going to do?

He's an arsebiscuit. Tell him to stop being a selfish sod and start behaving like a grown up.

hoobypickypicky Thu 23-Jan-14 10:18:18

"What happens if you get run over by a bus tomorrow? You really think you'd trust him to raise them with their best interest truly at heart?"

I suspect that this is a rhetorical question but I'd like you to take it as an actual one, hadenough8. Whaat would happen if you get run over by a bus tomorrow? Do you really think you can trust him to raise your kids with their best interests at heart?

Also, why doesn't he see his own kids? Why didn't he start proceedings to see them 2 years ago? Why hasn't he moved heaven and earth, put his own desires (marriage to you, gym membership, all the rest of it) second to fighting to see his own children?

I think you can tell a lot about a potential stepfather and how he will behave towards your children by looking at how he treats his own.

I rarely say LTB but in your shoes I'd give him an ultimatum. Accept the children as part of the family and share the rent and bills or leave tonight.

SugarMiceInTheRain Thu 23-Jan-14 10:19:15

I bet if he lived in his own place and had to pay all the mortgage, bills etc he'd be worse off. He needs to be given the boot. The fact that you are so accepting of him having loads of disposable income and you having none saddens me. That's no way to have a happy marriage sad

Anniegoestotown Thu 23-Jan-14 10:20:49

Bit naughty but how about taking him at his word and start charging him for everything, sex, cleaning, ironing, laundry. If he wants to live like a single guy then let him.

On a more serious point get rid now. He the longer it goes on the worse it will get.

He does not want anything to do with his children because they will cost him.

hoobypickypicky Thu 23-Jan-14 10:24:04

I've another question, hadenough, sorry to keep firing them at you.

Does this prince among men pay maintenance for his own kids? If he does is it a reasonable amount in accordance with his income and their needs or is it the minimum required by the CSA?

VivaLeBeaver Thu 23-Jan-14 10:25:20

OK, so hi giving you a bollocking for thinking of going to the supermarket to buy food is in my opinion finanacial abuse.

You've been married a month and the domestic abuse has started? Not good. It will get worse.

VivaLeBeaver Thu 23-Jan-14 10:26:08

Go and talk to your parents and tell them what's happening. I bet they wouldn't give a shit that they've just paid for a wedding. They will want you to be ok.

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 10:27:02

Sebsmummy, I am taking on board your comments, just thread is very fast moving and trying to answer all comments.

That is exactly what we have been arguing about. I have told him I cannot live like this. He isn't a lodger, but part of a family and to start acting as such. He apologises, says he was wrong. Then starts lecturing me about money and saving petrol etc, etc.

I told him I had googled divorce and that all the arguing and resentment is making me miserable and I would be better off (not financially) but emotionally without him.

He again says that he is sorry and doesn't want to make me feel like that. However, I just know that the resentment is still there.

I have been married a month and don't want to just give up and fall at the first hurdle. I am sure marriages take lots of work. Im just not sure he can get over the resentment.

MomsStiffler Thu 23-Jan-14 10:30:47

I'd tell him that if you're paying the bills for you & your DC, then you're cooking for you & your DC only. Give him a shelf in the fridge.

He can be allocated 1/4 of the house that is his to spend his time in & you won't clean it.

If he wants to act like a lodger, then treat him like one.

MomsStiffler Thu 23-Jan-14 10:32:24

^ I am sure marriages take lots of work.^ to a degree, but this seems excessive. He seems to feel that the whole household revolves around him & him only.

You would probably be happier going back to being just you & your DC - what advantages are there for you in living like this?

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 10:34:06

I suspect that this is a rhetorical question but I'd like you to take it as an actual one, hadenough8. Whaat would happen if you get run over by a bus tomorrow? Do you really think you can trust him to raise your kids with their best interests at heart?

No I don't.

Also, why doesn't he see his own kids?

It is complicated and i have avoided answering this as i didn't want to get side tracked. To his credit, he has tried and has started court proceedings previously. His ex started to let him see his kids, made a big thing about regretting stopping him and never doing it again, burnt the court papers in front of him etc. He dropped the proceedings, she stopped contact again. A big mistake on his part.

catsmother Thu 23-Jan-14 10:35:19

I agree he's using emotional blackmail to stop you looking too closely and/or objecting to his significant "personal" disposable income. After all, how "heartless" would someone be to complain about their partner taking steps to see their estranged children ?

Whilst I know from personal experience that even the best, most committed dads can be prevented from seeing their children if their ex is obstructive, what I don't get is why he's done nothing until now (apparently) ?

Furthermore, do you actually realise that it isn't necessarily hugely expensive to apply to court for a contact order ? He is at liberty to represent himself in court - as many non resident parents do - and the application fee for a contact order is just £215. There is plenty of information about this on the net and unless his particular case is extraordinarily unusual and complicated, that would be the sensible thing to do before spending thousands on legal fees.

But like previous posters, I'm not sure that's his genuine reason for clinging on to "his" money - not at all.

Personally, I think 50:50 on bills is mean when there's such disparity between incomes - yet the fact he's now also arguing about that is very indicative IMO of his true character. Some couples contribute to bills on a proportional basis - so if you earn £1K a month and he earns £2K, you pay 1/3 of bills and he pays 2/3. Even using that sort of formula though can mean one partner can have a much nicer life (if they see fit) if they earn significantly more. I just don't get how someone who's supposed to love you can swan about indulging himself, buying stuff as treats and so on, while you are in a completely different position where you have to seriously budget and can't participate in a similar way of living. It places you both in entirely different spheres - rather than the equals you'd hoped to be when you got married.

Most people get married in the full knowledge they'll be sharing their life henceforth with their new spouse .... that's what I take "for better, for worse" to mean. In reality you take the rough with the smooth and work together to make each other's lives as pleasant and as secure as possible. He's not acting like that at all ..... instead, he's behaving as if you - and your kids - are an imposition. Why the hell did he get married I wonder ? ........ is it the case that his outgoings have reduced as a result of moving in with you - and that he'd anticipated having £xxx amount to "spend" (on himself) as he pleased. And now, somehow feels "cheated" because "his" spends aren't quite as much as he'd thought they'd be ?

Basically, what was he spending to live each month before he moved in with you ? Is he better off now - under a 50:50 agreement - than he was before ? If the answer to that is "yes" I think it's very telling and in your shoes I'd be questioning his motives for marriage very seriously indeed - to the extent of telling him to fuck off.

Although different couples do have different financial arrangements I suspect the vast majority pool their incomes, pay all the bills, then decide jointly what happens to any money left over - with equal amounts of personal spends if possible. I bloody bet he "didn't want" to do that. Personally, I couldn't, just couldn't spend significant amounts of money on myself - on treat type stuff (i.e. non-essentials) month in, month out, while my so-called partner could never do anything remotely similar. What would that make me ? ....... mean, selfish, arguably cruel ........ and presumably seeing myself as better and more deserving of a nice lifestyle than they were.

Fuck that. You'd be no worse off without him - financially ..... and a lot better off emotionally than having him lord it over you like he's your superior. You do not want to have to justify your spending to him as if you're a naughty little child, and you do not want to be effectively trapped by lack of funds while he swans off on hobbies and holidays which you can't afford to share. What is the point of being married to someone who'd treat you like that ?

gamerchick Thu 23-Jan-14 10:35:31

I think that some people have a better relationship when they don't live together. I've known married people who keep on their own homes and it works quite well for them.

You don't have to split up... just don't live in the same house. Get back your tax credits and what not and he can go back to not being a dick about money because he has no idea what it means to be a family unit.

DameDeepRedBetty Thu 23-Jan-14 10:35:45

This splits into two slightly different problems.

Problem one, his idea of sharing and yours have turned out to be somewhat different. Agree it seemed like he had the right idea before your marriage, but turns out he thinks your children are not his financial problem in any way.

Problem two, he says he wants to save hard to get access to his own dcs. And that's the reason he's being a complete tightwad with you. However, his idea of saving hard seems to include still buying a lot of unnecessary luxuries for himself.

Okay, so your children aren't his, however how would he feel if his ex married a man who treated his children the way he's treating yours?

And how can any truly loving husband watch his wife struggle while he swans off to the gym in his brand new jumper?

DameDeepRedBetty Thu 23-Jan-14 10:36:44

My giddy aunt LOADS of xposts!

complexnumber Thu 23-Jan-14 10:37:39

I'm trying hard to give your DH some grace. If this is the first time he has had to live with someone. It may well be coming as a bit of a shock to him that with marriage comes a fair bit of mutual responsibility, and that you look after each other as you are now a unit.

This may take some getting used to.

Otherwise he is being v. prattish, and I would feel worried and more than a little deceived.

OnIlkelyMoorBahtat Thu 23-Jan-14 10:40:06

"Im just not sure he can get over the resentment."

But that's not your problem to fix is it?

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 10:40:52

Momstiffer, that sounds like a good idea, unfortunately i just cant be that petty. It would drive me insane!

There are no advantages to living like this. The situation at present, is that he has apologised twice and said he is wrong to think like that. So we are 'ok' now.

However, i just know that it isn't resolved and it will be raised again by him. Seems he apologises to just smooth things over, when he doesn't actually agree with it.

MadBusLady Thu 23-Jan-14 10:41:14

No, no, no. Marriages should not take THIS kind of work - the kind of work where one partner sacrifices their own finances entirely to the other and puts up with them having a go, all in exchange for a few cheap sorries. That is NOT the kind of work marriages should take.

I think you need to read this thread again slowly.

What we are telling you is that even the "agreement" you came to with regards splitting the bills equally was wrong.

It is wrong that he even thinks in terms of "one of me and three of you". It reveals everything you need to know about his attitude.

It is wrong that it even crosses his mind to have a go at you about "wasting" money on petrol to go food shopping shock

There is so, so much wrong here.

What we are suggesting is that this is a financially/emotionally abusive man, and that he has revealed his true colours now that you're legally shackled to him, that he won't get better, and that all bets are off as far as "working at the marriage" are concerned.

You can't work on a marriage unless both of you have the same aims - and his aim is clearly as comfy a lifestyle as possible for him, at your expense.

MomsStiffler Thu 23-Jan-14 10:42:33

Ah, but maybe just sitting down with him & saying that's what you think should be done "to be fair" might knock some sense into him.

Got to be worth a try!!

MomsStiffler Thu 23-Jan-14 10:42:59

xpost

sebsmummy1 Thu 23-Jan-14 10:43:51

Good, as long as you are taking these comments onboard as the majority of us feel very strongly that YANBU, and that's rare for this board!!

This is such a fundemental issue that it will keep raising it's head unfortunately and your positions are so far apart I just don't know where and how you are going to meet.

I think your first heavy conversation needs to be how he regards your children. Does he like them to call him Daddy? Is it important to him that they don't? You need to know how he feels the dynamic lies with you and 'your' children and if he is saying to you that he considers them like his own, then I'd want to know why his actions scream differently.

Children are not silly. They cotton on very quickly whether Mummy is happy and if not who is making her miserable and anxious. They are also very switched on to subtle emotional nuances. They will know how your husband really feels about them and as they get older they will use that as a reason to lose respect for him and your house may end up very divided.

There is an awful lot of work to do OP and you may have to scream and shout and sulk and withdraw land eventually you may have to accept it ain't going to work!! What you don't want to do is shrink and become meeker, more subservient, put his needs above your own, his financial happiness above your own, as this road leads nowhere good for you or you children.

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 10:44:26

Complex, he lived briefly with the mother of his children, they were both very young and lived with her parents, then split up shortly after. He then lived with his parents for years, until we married.

So yes, the first time really, he has been responsible for helping to run a household financially.

hoobypickypicky Thu 23-Jan-14 10:44:30

" Do you really think you can trust him to raise your kids with their best interests at heart?"

"No I don't."

That says it all.

You're putting this manchild's desire for financial betterment and your desire to remain married to him over the welfare and best interests of your children. Think about that, hadenough. Think about it long and hard.

Orangeisthenewbanana Thu 23-Jan-14 10:45:24

You're right, marriages do take a lot of work - but that has to come from both sides. It sounds like you're making all the compromises and putting in all the effort while he gets to swan along as before, and is trying to dictate to you how things will be done (food shopping, how much you drive the car etc).

The marriage can only work if he's prepared to accept that he'll have to make some compromises. That doesn't necessarily mean pooling resources 50/50 or him paying for extras for your children but he at least should be acknowledging that the current situation does not work for you and trying to find some middle ground

catsmother Thu 23-Jan-14 10:46:26

IME of contact issues, the most important thing is to get that application in to court asap .... not pussy foot around "saving" (allegedly) thousands so he can then start proceedings when he's got "enough" (if he's going down the solicitor route). Whenever that might be.

Court proceedings, all the red tape, CAFCASS and a non co-operative ex can all mean cases can be extraordinarily slow to reach a conclusion. In the meantime that's his kids' childhoods slipping away and even more lost time to try and make up, re-establishing a relationship with them will be harder and harder the longer he leaves it.

In any case, how long is a piece of string ? He has no way of knowing how long his case would take, or how many hours of a solicitor's time he'd need to pay for in order to sort all this out. It's not like saving for something concrete like a new conservatory.

All he has to do is apply to court and get the ball rolling. He could do that right now and pay his fee of £215 if he wanted to out of his £1k pocket money. So bloody what if the ex destroys the court papers .... a piece of paper is a piece of paper. Doesn't make her above the law.

He's talking bullshit and taking you for a mug OP.

HaroldLloyd Thu 23-Jan-14 10:49:42

I wouldn't be happy with having a fifth of his spending money and a lot more outgoings.

He dosent have to go 50/50 I suppose but surely some of that grand should be going on your future and giving you BOTH a good standard of living.

hoobypickypicky Thu 23-Jan-14 10:51:46

Additionally, the ex stopped the contact with his children TWO YEARS ago and he still has done nothing about seeing them?

And you're giving him credit for starting proceedings previously despite that he's not bothered with his children for the past 2 years? Yes, I did say not bothered, he could have tried these past 24 months and yet he still isn't bothering now.

You're putting a man who doesn't just resent your children but doesn't even give much of a shit about his own above the welfare and long term security of your kids. You're beginning to look like you're enabling or at least making excuses for this man. You're putting your own desires and his, and your own pride above the wellbeing of your children. Can you not see that?

catsmother Thu 23-Jan-14 10:52:55

Xposted.

Ah right, so if he's been living with mummy and daddy for a long time, chances are that he's got very used indeed to having lots of money to spend all on himself (unless they were charging him the going rate for a lodger which I doubt).

He probably does feel "hard done by" now. But should have thought of that before marrying and moving in. Surely to god he must have had some inkling of how the vast majority of couples pool finances even if he's never directly experienced that himself ?

And even if he didn't .... for me, this comes back to basic decency, respect and kindness. I just don't see how he can feel "okay" at watching you struggle, or having to go without stuff he takes for granted and not feel embarrassed. In effect he's rubbing your face in it.

What's going to happen when he fancies going on holiday ? Is it going to be "oh I'd love you to come - such a shame you can't afford it - bye".

AGoodPirate Thu 23-Jan-14 10:53:34

He sounds like a prick.
I honestly think you should get rid because this sort of meanness is innate, ingrained.
He won't have a revelation.

gamerchick Thu 23-Jan-14 10:54:01

if he's never done it before then I can understand it being a shock to the system.

Another talk explaining how a marriage should be and it's not how he's thinking may be in order and if he can't cope with that, then maybe he should go back to his parents.

I don't even think pooling the finances and splitting the rest is necessary. My husband took on me and my 3 kids, their dad don't pay piss all for them. I bring in roughly half his salary.. so he pays for all the big bills and I pay all the little bills. he's paid for my kids for years now but accepted that when he took us on that it's just the way it is.

Call a come to jesus meeting and have it out with him.. it needs nipping in the bud and he needs to realise that it's not just a him and you's. It doesn't work like that.

Foxred10 Thu 23-Jan-14 10:56:46

He's being an arsehole. In my opinion Household expenses should be shared equally between all and any working adults in the house, as a proportion of what they earn (ie if all expenses are £1000 per month, and one partner earns £1000 a month, and the other £2000, then partner 1 would pay £250, partner 2 £750) The idea that you pay for 3 and he pays for 1 is ridiculous. As is the fact that he is happy to be flush himself and see you struggle. Does this 'fuck everyone else as long as I'm alright' attitude extend beyond the financial? Because if so, I would say you would be well rid of him hmm

Oh dear. He's really never lived on his own even, has he?

How old is he?

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 10:58:12

Sebsmummy, my children do call him dad and he has encouraged them to do so. He is generally very good with them, he gets involved in homework, bedtime, plays with them for hours etc, etc. Very much a hands on kind of dad.

I am far from placid when it comes to my children, i am very patient in general, i rarely scream, shout or sulk. However i am more than willing and able to get my point across and let DH know that i wont stand for it.

I will attempt another cards on the table discussion with ds and tell him again that ANY resentment towards my children is a deal breaker for me.

I did wonder whether it might be that now that he is part of my family, married, moved in etc maybe he wants his children to be part of it and maybe that is where the resentment comes from. Kind of misplaced resentment.

Anyhow, thank you everyone for all your comments. I have today and tomorrow off work and i was planning on trying out some new recipes and doing some cooking and baking. But first i need to go to the supermarket for a few ingredients and I WILL waste about 50 pence worth of petrol doing so! smile

Thanks again for listening.

FastWindow Thu 23-Jan-14 10:59:42

Did he not say 'all I have I share with you' in his vows then?

YANNNNBU.

OP to give you another perspective. When my DB met his wife she was a SAHM to a 5 year old, the father had left the country. They had children and got married. She carried on being a SAHM until the DC had started school. He supported the whole family financially (there was no stepson carve out hmm) because that's what you do when its a real partnership.

Electryone Thu 23-Jan-14 11:03:31

Splitting electricity bills because there is only one of him and three of "you" is not a partnership or a recipe for family life, because whether he likes it or not you are all a family now, this happened when you married. There's more to family life as a parent/step parent than reading a few stories.

stopthecavalry Thu 23-Jan-14 11:04:18

Good luck but your expectations are too low. You are married. You are a unit. You should share everything including the expenses for all of the kids. If he can't grasp the concept of family money I would ask him to leave.

Mummytime, prior to the wedding he wasn't like this.

Of course he was he was just hiding it from you so you wouldn't run a mile. Now you are married he thinks he has you trapped so the real him is crawling out of whatever hole he hid it in.

He has deceived you OP and now he thinks he can begin to beat you down so that he can have things all his way. This can and will only get worse.

If he treats you, his wife whom he is supposed to love, like this how will he treat your children? It is clear he believes they are not his problem and believe me they will know it. Are you prepared to sacrifice their happiness, never mind your own, for your husband's?

There is no virtue in soldiering on out of some misplaced idea that you have made your bed, and that marriage should be work. Thankfully times have moved on and you need not be trapped.

Think about it OP you have been married a month. This is supposed to be the honeymoon period where you are all blissful and content. Are you?

He sounds like a selfish wee boy to me. Interesting that his last relationship didn't survive living together isn't it?

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 11:10:14

I should have made that clearer, he started Court proceeding DURING the last 2 years, he saw his kids a handful of times, then his ex stop contact again once he dropped the proceedings. He has been trying to sort it out with his ex since then.

Sorry for not giving precise details, as i said i didn't want to go into it and get side tracked by it.

Anyhow i really must go out now.

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 11:16:04

Little, blissfully happy, no far from it, im miserable. I have had enough already.

I do take marriage seriously and i do feel, we need to have a serious chat and start again as from that point on. If he cannot stick to what we have agreed or resolved, not the money, i don't give a shit about the money, i mean the resentment, then yes our marriage is over.

MostWicked Thu 23-Jan-14 11:16:30

The ONLY way it would work for me is as follows:

You both pay ALL of your income into one account.
ALL expenses, including the children's costs, come out of that account.
Whatever is left over is for both of you to spend equally.

You are a family. You are all in it together and you all contribute in different ways, to the running of that family.

CreamSodaFloat Thu 23-Jan-14 11:18:01

Give it a bit more time for things to settle down and for him to change his attitude. Give yourself a date for this to happen e.g. 6 months. I've seen this a lot with people who get married after they have already established themselves in a career and have had a good few years of the good life. When they then get married, they want to keep their own money as they are used to being very independent.

I am lucky that I met my husband when he was a student and completely skint, then had massive loans. I subbed him all the time and paid for and kept him from starving. Now he's earning a good salary and I am a SAHM and he has NEVER mentioned money to me ever. I think that this is one of the big blocks in the foundation of marriage. I couldn't be married to someone who said I'll pay this if you pay that. DH and I had joint accounts as soon as we got our first job post uni and 3 years before we got married.

SlimJiminy Thu 23-Jan-14 11:18:30

FWIW, I don't think there's a right or wrong re: splitting things according to income or splitting the bills 50/50 - whatever works for you as a couple/family although clearly his suggestion about you paying for 3/4 and him 1/4 is completely bonkers He sounds incredibly immature. How old is he op ?

DH and I do 50/50 with bills even though his earnings are 2x mine - but things are evened out in other ways (he pays for meals out, hair cuts, days/nights out, etc) and we definitely see our income as shared - although we don't use a joint bank account.

Don't wait until things flare up and you find yourself in a row followed by an insincere apology situation again. Sit down and talk through things again when you're both calm and not arguing. Get this sorted out now.

hoobypickypicky Thu 23-Jan-14 11:19:09

You're still making excuses for him not even bothering with his own kids, hadenough. Any man who really cared would have re-started proceedings not still be "waiting to save up the money" hmm for them, in fact they'd be camping out on the ex's doorstep if they had to. They wouldn't sod around "trying to sort it out with" the ex once she'd stopped contact and he'd have seen his kids more than "a handful of times".

I'll say it again, he doesn't even give a shit for his own kids and he clearly resents yours.

He's taking you for a fool, hadenough. Are you a fool?

specialsubject Thu 23-Jan-14 11:23:12

did he know you had kids before you married?

in that case he should have realised that they had to be supported and paid for. Which BTW is also the case for his own.

I agree - are you a fool? You are if you continue with this as it is...

Little, blissfully happy, no far from it, im miserable. I have had enough already.

There's your answer then. Tell him he is on very thin ice above a pit full of sharks. Give him a specified amount of time to get his act together. If he drops the "it's all about meeeeee" act then consider your options. If not then why on Earth would you accept being miserable? You, and your lovely children, deserve better.

Good luck.

SlimJiminy Thu 23-Jan-14 11:26:13

Yep. I agree with hooby - he should've started legal proceedings again the moment she stopped contact. What's he waiting for? How much has he told you he needs and how close is he to saving that amount? I'm not saying there's necessarily any truth in it. But if he has spare cash for a new jumper/hair cut/whatever then he can't use the court proceedings/kids excuse anymore. Surely you can see that's bullshit?

kitsmummy Thu 23-Jan-14 11:26:21

Hadenough, do you own your house? If so, I'd make legal movements straight away to protect it as he sounds like the kind of tight bastard who would try to get half of the equity if you we're to split up over this and he may already be able to do this

sebsmummy1 Thu 23-Jan-14 11:35:14

Kits, OP mentioned rent in her first post so I would say there is no owned house in the mix.

therewearethen Thu 23-Jan-14 11:36:32

Did you marry this cocklodger after a few weeks OP? I agree with the others, he sounds financially abusive at best, he knew full well when you started a relationship that you come as a package of 3 not 1.

Can I suggest you get this moved over to relationships, I fear you may need more advice and support in the very near future.

Take care OP

Slutbucket Thu 23-Jan-14 11:38:29

Just makes me glad of my husband when I read posts like this. He goes out to work and then hands it over to me to decide what we are doing with it. The kids come first and then we get what's left over. A true partnership.

sebsmummy1 Thu 23-Jan-14 11:40:25

Slur bucket this also makes me want to tell my partner I love him over and over again and he is FAR from perfect.

MadBusLady Thu 23-Jan-14 11:40:25

I'm sorry we keep bombarding you, hadenough, I appreciate this is a fast-moving thread and a lot to take in. But you keep saying things that are really worrying.

You SHOULD give a shit about the money. You absolutely should give a shit that someone who is supposed to love you is happy to shortchange you - and by shortchange I simply mean not split the bills proportionate to income. That is the bare minimum of what any reasonable person would expect in a marriage.

This is not just about you, this is about your DC going without. Please, please don't think it's somehow unladylike or showing a lack of devotion to protect your financial interests and those of your children. Marriage is not about voluntarily making huge sacrifices and waiting for the cosmic rewards.

catsmother Thu 23-Jan-14 11:47:52

Please note what I've said - twice now - about him self-repping in court for the grand total of £215.

He could start contact proceedings NOW.

That excuse is rubbish. And all the while he delays, he's just making a big problem even bigger.

He might also like to consider that (^if^) when his case is finally heard - at some point in the future when he deems he's saved "enough" (??) - his failure to chase up contact in a timely manner may well count against him in the opinion of some judges who may wonder why it took him so long .... especially if his case isn't out of the ordinary and there was no barrier to self repping and getting things moving asap.

As I said before I think these contact "savings" are a red herring anyway - but you may like to use these arguments against the idea because he'll probably bring them up again when you next attempt to have THE big money discussion - and make you feel bad/unsupportive about it all.

I'm glad to read that you won't stand for shows of resentment over money from him. I don't think you should stand - either - to live in what is in effect a two-tier household where one party has so much more financial freedom than the other. You are really selling yourself short by thinking that it's "okay" for him to spend "his" considerable disposal income all on himself. You may not earn as much as him but you are no doubt contributing to the household in other ways and are not a lazy person. IMO, so long as both adult parties are doing all they can to contribute to the overall wellbeing and security of the family, then no-one should have any complaints or be pulling rank over money. It isn't just money that creates a home .... and it's entirely possible for someone to be working as hard as they possibly can in a lower paid job, i.e. doing their very best. They shouldn't then be financially penalised by their partner of all people just because their best doesn't come with a large pay packet. Not everyone is lucky enough to land a well paid job - doesn't mean that if your partner earns more than you he's necessarily putting in any more effort than you are. So why, once he's committed to you, should you be deemed somehow less deserving of a comfortable lifestyle which he sees as his right ?

I really think you need to address this whole financial thing from square one .... living such separate, and different financial lives can only lead to misery .... with you feeling like a second class citizen compared to him. Does he want you to feel like that ? .... his inferior. And how will you feel when "you" get a bill, e.g. dental work, and you have to go cap in hand to plead for him to give you some money - which he may well treat as a loan rather than a gift in any case.

If he didn't want to share everything with you - and hadn't made this explicitly clear before marriage - then why the heck did he get married at all ?

Topseyt Thu 23-Jan-14 11:51:39

I am not sure there has been an adequate explanations as to WHY he seems to have no contact with his children from his previous relationship.

There really MUST be some reason for that, otherwise it defies logic. From the divorced/separated mums I know (and I am not one of them so it isn't personal experience), none stopped contact with the kids' father without very good reason. Maybe his behaviour towards you now was similar or worse when he was still with his ex. Maybe he wasn't such a hands-on father as he is leading you to believe and what he does now with your children is all for show, to ingratiate himself so that his life can be more comfortable at your expense.

He sounds like such an arse, and a tight-wad. Tread very carefully here.

Fairylea Thu 23-Jan-14 11:57:47

So, so many things wrong here!

As everyone else has said really.

Personally I believe marriage is for sharing everything. I know that others don't share that view and fair enough but dh and I pool all our finances and share spending money equally. We have one dc together and I have one dd from a previous marriage. Both dc are treated the same and as ours together.

You don't have a family with this man, you have a lodger. And a rude one at that.

The saving for court thing is a load of shit. As others have said he could go to court now and self represent.

I'd leave him and start again and next time live with someone before you marry them!!

Mim78 Thu 23-Jan-14 12:02:36

Tell him it's a Marriage, not a flat share. Is he going to start writing his name on 'his' milk?

This.

But we are looking very LTB if this is his attitude.

Jess03 Thu 23-Jan-14 12:11:35

Yep just one more who thinks that your dh is an immature baby who doesn't understand responsibility. I have friends with dcs from previous marriages and all money is shared equally. I'm shocked he dared to suggest that you should pay more for your dc, he also knows how little you have left over, he sounds immature and selfish.

Anniegoestotown Thu 23-Jan-14 13:08:30

What would happen if you did not have any money for food would he eat his food in front of you?

What happens when it comes to going on holiday? He can afford the Seychelles but you have to stay at home? Is that how it is going to work out?

What do his parents do re money?

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 23-Jan-14 13:39:00

Forgive me if this has already been covered. As every time I refresh is takes ages to read all the posts then I have to refresh again and the same thing happens.

Does he pay for his own children, and there is a reason why so many people have asks you and yes it is relevant to the issue.

BeCool Thu 23-Jan-14 13:48:20

OP if your relationship survives this 'dispute' I really really really hope when you finish your training you get a HUGE pay rise/massive new job - and don't share with him.

he is treating you like a flatmate and being an arse about it too.

Joysmum Thu 23-Jan-14 13:51:19

If he got sick, or unemployed and couldn't pay his half of the bills Im guessing would he expect you to cover them. Funny how that could work in his favour.

My marriage is a partnership. Income is household income, expenditure regarded the same way. Disposable income is household disposable income. Anything else isn't fair.

Joysmum Thu 23-Jan-14 13:52:07

If he got sick, or unemployed and couldn't pay his half of the bills Im guessing would he expect you to cover them. Funny how that could work in his favour.

My marriage is a partnership. Income is household income, expenditure regarded the same way. Disposable income is household disposable income. Anything else isn't fair.

SirRaymondClench Thu 23-Jan-14 14:12:33

I hope the talk tonight goes well for you OP

carabos Thu 23-Jan-14 14:16:06

Did you know this man before you married him?

Squitten Thu 23-Jan-14 14:21:03

The money is important - it's symptomatic of his crappy attitude. He doesn't sound like he wants to be part of a family at all. If this is his attitude to raising a family, I'm not surprised his ex doesn't want him around their children. He sounds like a bloody child himself.

Unless he has some kind of personality transplant, I think you have a miserable future ahead with this one

FauxFox Thu 23-Jan-14 14:23:44

What if you lost your job? Or had to be off with ill health? Would he 'sub' you? What if you had extra expenses one month and ran short and your kids needed dinner money? Would he forgo a new jumper to help you out?

I'm sorry but whether or not he has found the realities of living away from mummy and daddy a shock he is behaving appallingly!

How would your kids feel when they are older knowing that you had to cover their 'share' of the bills alone? I'm sure they would love to know how he accepts them as his own (except where his wallet is concerned!).

I really can't understand why this isn't a bigger deal to you? He is saying loud and clear "I am more important than you and your kids. It's not my responsibility to look after or help any of you financially." Doesn't sound much like he loves you or your kids OP. Sorry sad

Send him back to his mum and dad until he's had a big think about this. If his current behaviour is really how he feels your marriage is over.

thegreylady Thu 23-Jan-14 14:25:24

The problem is not the money itself it is the attitudes shown by his reactions. In any normal blended family there is income x+y=z with z being the total to spend on the family's expenses.x and y are the two partners incomes z is the pooled amount. Any left over is available to both partners equally, some to save and some to spend in a mutually agreed way.
He is not behaving like a husband but like a selfish, mean prat of the first order.It should not matter who earns what. What if you become pregnant with his child? What will he do when you have time off work? Sorry love he stinks! Get out while you can.

ZenNudist Thu 23-Jan-14 14:35:23

You can't live like this, get him out now. In a marriage everything is shared so you don't have £200/£1000 you have £1200 and you both get a say in how its spent.

He doesn't get new clothes and luxury items whist your kids have to skip a school trip. They should be 'his' children too by now. Likewise you support him to gain access to his dc. That's not just a case of saving for court costs, he should seek legal advice now.

His attitude sucks and isn't going to change. LTB.

LouiseAderyn Thu 23-Jan-14 14:46:13

He doesn't love you OP. If he did, he would want you to have the same standard of living that he enjoys. He wouldn't be able to talk about expensive clothes and gym membership in one breath and then lecture you about petrol use in the next.

And him encouraging your kids to call him dad means jack shit if he isn't willing to actually be a dad to them and financially support them. If their own dad was meeting the costs of their upbringing, then I could maybe understand him using his own money primarily to support his own dc. But you have no money from their dad, so in marrying you (a truly single parent), he ought to be supporting your dc properly.

That you wouldn't trust him with them if you got hit by a bus is the only factor you really need to consider.

He is a cocklodger and the very best thing you could do is to get rid before he gets his feet well and truly under the table and starts making noises about division of your property. the sooner you get shot, the less claim he can make.

Probably not relevant, but I think being mean with money in a relationship is worse than having an affair.

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 14:53:55

Actually having a shelf in the fridge just for him is something that he said previously, I laughed I thought he was joking! There have also been some other comments which again i thought he wasn't serious or had other motives. Like a 4 pack of chocolate in the fridge, over the course of 2 days, my dc's had one each and he ate 2. On taking the last one from the packet, he commented about it being the last one and asked who had eaten the others. I told him dc's had and he commented about too much chocolate being bad for them.

This morning before he left for work he actually made a comment about it 'always being about you and your kids'

He then tried phoning me while I was walking around the supermarket, I ignored as I didn't want to get into a discussion in the middle of a supermarket. He then texted 'are you at home'. I texted no shopping and he asked why am I ignoring his call. So i phoned him when i got home and told him just that. I am not prepared to just keep ignoring what he says and does and carry on as if it hasn't been said or done and that we need to talk. It then turned into another argument, with him insisting he doesn't resent my kids and not even willing to accept that his actions suggest otherwise. I get what about all the times, i put them to bed, play with them etc, etc.

There isn't much hope is there.

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 14:59:18

I forgot to answer, we have been together for 2 years prior to getting married, just not living together, he moved in after we married.

He is late 20's, i am early 30's, so maybe not the most experienced, but hardly kids.

I'm sorry OP, it's a whole big mess, but on the plus side you have seen it for what it is and have the opportunity to take action to improve things rather than wait 5 years or ten trying your best to ignore things that belittle you.

enriquetheringbearinglizard Thu 23-Jan-14 15:09:19

Not only am I wondering why his first marriage broke down and why his ex has prevented him seeing his children, by the way, still not clear if he pays towards raising them at all? but am also wondering what his good points are and why you married him OP?

To be honest and this is no help now, the fact that he's never lived as the responsible adult in a home before is a major concern. If you've said how old he is I've missed it. Perhaps some kind of counselling together might help him grow up and get with it?

It sounds dreadfully stressful for you at the moment instead of still being in a honeymoon period sad

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 15:14:49

Anyhow i have told him that this obviously isn't working for either or us and we need to talk later about splitting up. I have tried to put things right and he refuses to accept that there even is a problem.

As someone said if i were to die tomorrow, would i trust him to look after my kids and the answer is no.

I don't know what to do with regards to the kids, if he asks can he still see them. They do have a relationship with him and they do love him. However if the feeling is not mutual and i am saying i don't trust him, then i don't see how a relationship with them can continue.

SparklingMuppet Thu 23-Jan-14 15:19:09

See if there's any way you can get an annulment given that it's only been a month. He's an utter wanker, he really is. I highly doubt he'll ask to see the kids in all honesty, but if by some miracle he does, simply say no.

Wibblypiglikesbananas Thu 23-Jan-14 15:20:02

I actually find this thread really chilling.

And sorry if it's been mentioned before, but who owns where you live now? Is it your property? Your name on the lease?

You need to leave this man - or kick him out. It sounds like he is intrinsically selfish, either as he is incredibly naive and just hasn't done the whole living together thing before, or because he is a champion manipulator. Either way, what kind of example are you setting for your children?

givemeaclue Thu 23-Jan-14 15:20:06

Choose very carefully and wisely next time

SlimJiminy Thu 23-Jan-14 15:24:39

On the counselling point. I wouldn't hesitate to contact Marriage Care if I was struggling to resolve an issue as big as yours with my DH: http://www.marriagecare.org.uk/

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 15:24:52

He wasn't married before Enrique, they had kids when they were both very young. No disrespect to his ex, as i can see for myself why any relationship wouldn't work, if this is how he carried on. However, from what i have seen, access to his children seems to depend on who her current partner is. She had a child with another man and while with him, DH wasn't allowed to see his kids, he started court action. They split up and she had a new partner, he was allowed to see the kids, DH stopped court action. She then got back with 1st guy and DH wasn't allowed again. Same went for paying for kids, he wasn't allowed, then he was, then he wasn't.

No excuse, as i agree i would be doing whatever it took to see my kids, just answering the question.

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 15:26:19

Givemeaclue, there wont be a next time, this has put me off for life!

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 23-Jan-14 15:27:05

If you do part company and he does pay for his kids via CSA,give them a call as you can bet your bottom dollar he has already taken up the discount he gets due to living with your kids.

Did he live at home until he got married? If he did, was it all about him at home? He sounds awfully spoiled and entitled, and unreasonable
Was there any reason for not living together until you got married? And what the 'reason' you got married? What exactly is he expecting from a marriage? You really need to have that discussion now. If does sound like couples counselling is needed, if you decide to stick with it.

But he is being awfully controlling, and I'd be very nervous in your shoes. If this is after one month, will it escalate into something more sinister? At the very least, he is putting himself very much first, you a distance second, and the poor kids don't seem to figure at all.

SlimJiminy Thu 23-Jan-14 15:27:49

He should pay for them through the CSA if she's being obstructive. Still sounds like bullshit excuses to me.

MadBusLady Thu 23-Jan-14 15:29:44

I'm sorry OP sad Worth thinking hard about whether anything in the last two years gave you hints that this might happen? I don't necessarily mean meanness with money, just general signs of selfishness, entitlement, poor-me etc. You don't have to avoid men forever if you're confident about your ability to spot red flags.

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 15:30:59

Slimjiminy i am not sure i can move on past this, even with counselling. I am generally a forgiving person and don't hold a grudge, but there will always be that thought at the back of mind and resenting kids, anyones kids, is a real deal breaker for me. As someone already pointed out what would happen, how would he be if i wasn't around at all.

greenfolder Thu 23-Jan-14 15:32:53

so what did you do before? how much did you have left over then?

feltpaperchains Thu 23-Jan-14 15:42:04

I was in a very similar relationship with a man like yours before my current one and I ended it because he lacked the ability to see us as a team, he had a separate food cupboard and refused to clean the oven(as he said he never made it dirty) even though we used it to cook our meals.
In retrospect I think if we had loved each other enough we could have worked through it but he was so stubborn and emotionally immature and I basically hated him by the end of it through loss of respect that the best thing I ever did (as painful and embarrassing as it was) was to end it.
He now is free to live his very selfish life and I am now with a man who is interested in talking about/ negotiating our domestic situation so that we are both feeling valued and there's a balance ofour needs. It'son going but this man I'm now with is actually worth the effort and you are too! Good luck

PolyesterBride Thu 23-Jan-14 15:42:21

So have you lost tax credits now you are living together? If you're not actually living as partners, as in sharing money, then shouldn't you still be regarded as a single parent as far as tax credits are concerned? It seems like you have the worst of all worlds at the moment.

When I moved in with my partner, it took me a while to accept the shared finances thing (which I now regard as totally natural). As partners, I can't see it can work any other way. You pay together for household expenses and pay together for other necessary expenses including going to court to get contact with his kids reinstated.

olympicsrock Thu 23-Jan-14 15:44:05

This should shock him into understanding that there is a major problem. I think you need to lay out your expectations for your family and partnership ie that you are equals in decision making ,rights to spend your pooled money etc.
After all essential bills have been paid including for DC and potential legal billsyou should decide jointly how to spend or save your joint pot of money with an equal standard of living and no of treats.
That is how marriage works. He needs to be committed to doing his best for your kids for the rest of his life even if you died.

If he doesn't agree to this then you perhaps need to separate to allow him time to think. This is v WORRYING.

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 15:46:17

Mom, yes he lived with his parents until we got married and i would say not spoilt at all, probably the opposite. When we have spoke about his childhood, it wasn't a very loving or caring one. Although he idolises his parents and is always trying to impress them.

Strangely enough my reasons for not living with him prior to marriage, was that i didn't want a man living here with my kids, until i was sure he was the 'one' if you see what i mean. They have already had one father, i didn't want a long list of fathers.

Mad prior to marriage, he was very generous and thoughtful to my kids. He would stay at weekends and bring them a little something, take us to the cinema, days out etc.

Although now i am starting to see signs of his selfishness, for example his reply to my text about we need to talk about splitting up was 'where am i supposed to go' no, i really love you, i want this to work etc, etc.

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 15:47:39

At the moment i am feeling like his meal ticket out of his parents house.

enriquetheringbearinglizard Thu 23-Jan-14 15:48:01

I see. Sorry I thought the very young relationship with his ex was a marriage and that they all lived with her parents. Having children with someone is a big commitment though, even if they weren't married.

I'm trying to be really fair to him just to get everything absolutely clear.
You didn't say how old he is, or how old you are, but it does sound from what you said about his ex and the situation with her and access that he's not actually ever had the kind of relationship that most of us think is normal. When I say normal I mean what most people could reasonably expect taking on board good and bad patches, not dreamland.

When I suggested counselling, that was because you've been married such a short time and he's only had very few weeks living without older parental figure adults under the same roof.
It just seems early days to be forgetting all his good points and the reasons why you wanted to be married to him.

If you feel certain you want out and you really wouldn't trust him to love, care about and raise your children if the worst happened and you weren't around any more, then you do need to get out now and cut your losses, isn't he now your children's next of kin?
You need to check out all the legal points and either make a serious effort to get him to counselling, or if that's an absolute no to you, act sooner rather than later.

enriquetheringbearinglizard Thu 23-Jan-14 15:50:17

I typed that before your last Hadenough.
I'd be freaked out if I got the 'where am I supposed to go?' response rather than I love you and want to work this out.

It all just seems to have collapsed so soon sad but these things can and do happen and sometimes you just have to sort it.

FunkyBoldRibena Thu 23-Jan-14 15:55:34

* Then started to say why should he pay for everything ie there are 3 of us and only 1 of him. So if the electric bill for example comes to £80, I should pay £60, he should pay £20*

Brilliant. Get your marriage annulled as this is not a marriage. It's a farce.

feltpaperchains Thu 23-Jan-14 15:56:36

Most people who's parent's were shit, idolise them because it's better than dealing with the reality that they might not have been loved/ cared for wholeheartedly. (speaking from exp). At best people who complain about their good enough parents cut their own a bit of slack when they have their own children because they realise that it's impossible to get it right. Anyway that's by the by.
He sounds entitled and very very very child like.
He needs to be in his adult state not child, it sounds like emotionally you are a lot more evolved than him which begs the question how you felt you were compatible in the first place? How is your self esteem, are you not worth more than him and what he has to offer?

SlimJiminy Thu 23-Jan-14 16:00:07

I have a friend who confessed that her ex (who's a mutual friend of ours) used to keep a spreadsheet of all the dates, gigs, etc they went to each month and he would let her know if she owed him anything for her share at the end of the month. Needless to say, I've pointed out that she's had a lucky escape and it's still taking her a while far too long to see that.

If you don't think counselling will work, it's time to decide what you do next. And no, I don't think he should have contact with your children if you're not together - he can't be arsed with his own, is it really going to be better for your kids to stay in touch until he fizzles out contact than if you make a clean break now?

hoobypickypicky Thu 23-Jan-14 16:01:08

"Same went for paying for kids, he wasn't allowed, then he was, then he wasn't."

Is that what he tells you? I mean, have you proof of that? In my experience it's far more common for a father to deliberately withhold maintenance when he is in an access dispute than it is for a mother to choose to reject a contribution to the bare minimum living expenses to which her children are lawfully entitled.

I think he's playing you. I'm really sorry, but I do.

gennibugs Thu 23-Jan-14 16:02:36

'where am I supposed to go?'

You poor thing OP he sounds like a very selfish man indeed. That would seal it for me i think.

Hope your talk later provides some clarity.

SlimJiminy Thu 23-Jan-14 16:09:44

Have a look at your options too re: annulment, divorce, your home, etc. - make sure you know where you stand.

SlimJiminy Thu 23-Jan-14 16:11:19

P.S. enrique - op said somewhere that she's early 30s / DH in his late 20s

Christmascandles Thu 23-Jan-14 16:19:19

Sorry OP haven't had time to read all thru the thread, but yes, to me it sounds like you were his meal ticket to getting out of his parents house. I am so sorry it has worked out like this for you.

Maybe that's how his parents worked out their finances. Can u explain to him how 'normal' mumsnetters work out their finances, apologies if you've already done this.

He sounds v selfish and childish.

thanks

sebsmummy1 Thu 23-Jan-14 16:22:38

Where he goes is a one bed flat or house share. He can legitimately write his name on the milk there and be very happy.

Just get out, honestly. Explain to your parents that he changed directly you married him and has been EA. Then offer to pay them back for the wedding to the tune of fifty quid a month or something.

enriquetheringbearinglizard Thu 23-Jan-14 16:26:25

slimJiminy thank you, I thought I might've missed that.
I suppose his background, his past experiences and that age goes some way to explaining his mindset, but it doesn't in any way excuse it. Plus OP has had to be very responsible and is undoubtedly a hell of a lot more mature which just goes to flag up the gulf between them on the financial front.

SilverOldie Thu 23-Jan-14 16:30:25

I feel so dreadfully sorry for you OP. His behaviour is completely unacceptable and if I were you I would tell him he must move out of your home to enable you to have time and space to consider if you wish to continue the relationship. I don't think things will improve, they will only get worse as time goes on. Then investigate annulment, divorce etc.

I would also tell your parents and discuss it with them - it helps to have someone to talk to in real life.

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 16:33:35

Enrique I did see some court papers from when he started proceedings first time round where his ex had stated that he had financially contributed, however she wanted nothing to do with him or his money. Maybe they were having a similar argument to this! as i feel like telling him to stick his money where the sun down shine! I did get the impression from what i saw or heard that it was his ex's partner talking and not his ex. I think her partner (with whom she had a child too) wanted to put a stop to contact, rather than his ex. As when she split with this partner she was happy for him to have contact and pay for his kids. The minute she got back with this partner, she stopped contact again.

In fact she gave him lists of what she needed him to buy ie trainers, clothes, school uniform, petrol money for bringing the kids to him etc, etc on top of the financial contributions he was making. I saw the lists and helped him choose the items. Although obviously i don't know what happened in any other communication between them. Maybe he was asking her to justify what she was spending 'his' money on!

I will never know.

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 23-Jan-14 16:42:57

So have you lost tax credits now you are living together? If you're not actually living as partners, as in sharing money, then shouldn't you still be regarded as a single parent as far as tax credits are concerned? It seems like you have the worst of all worlds at the moment

Living together as a couple is about much more than money things lie how you perceive your status how others do how you socialise divide household tasks that sort of thing

Hadenough8 Thu 23-Jan-14 16:48:01

I have just had a phone call telling me i should not give him ultimatums and marriages should be based on talking. Apparently he has taken on board what i have said and he will 'try' to change.

I told him it wasn't a case of trying at my childrens expense, it was a case of you can either stop resenting my kids or you can't. If the latter, then you have to leave. He is still insisting he doesn't resent them and i have told him actions speak louder than words. Its a vicious circle, he repeats the same behaviour over again, i then repeat that i will not tolerate said behaviour, he says sorry he is wrong to act that way and it wont happen again, then he repeats the same behaviour again. So his 'trying' last a matter of days or even hours.

The last 3 days we have done nothing but argue. I know in terms of a marriage arguing for 3 days is nothing. But this is not about the money, its about his attitude and my children.

Initially when he said that if he pays more than his share of bills, he cant afford court proceedings. My heart bled for him and i imagined how i would feel being without my kids and that i would save every penny to ensure it happened. We spoke about he HAS to help to pay for bare essentials and that we could save any money left over to enable him to do that.

Then he sat there telling me he had seen a jumper he was going to buy, and spend £100 on gym membership and he left work early to get his haircut etc, etc my heart stopped bleeding! I then thought before marriage, he has had plenty of opportunity to save money, why didn't he.

This then made me think this isn't about HIS children at all, its about MINE

Firstly he is a twat... no bones about it!

However, I am assuming you now get less tax credits/benefits etc as you are a couple?
I would sit down and show him the 'before marriage' figures and the 'after marriage' figures and ask where he thinks you should pull this 75% share of the bills from. I know my DC's don't eat as much as adults, use as much water, petrol etc. The heating would be on the same for 2 people (if not more) as it would be for 4 etc.

feltpaperchains Thu 23-Jan-14 17:08:04

I agree that you need to protect your children and you have done a great job letting him know your standpoint in terms of prioritising them.
But step parenting is extremely hard, there's no handbook. If he feels resentment he should be able to talk about it with you without judgement but through self awareness he should not act on this resentment with them, then together for you both to find workable solutions.
I am a step parent and as well as strong love, a range of feelings arise whilst I'm trying my best such as disappointment, jealousy, frustration. They aren't right but they're just feelings I have no control over, not that I would show them to my DSD but my DP and I talk about them.
It seems like there's a communication failure going on between you both either from his side yours or both.

Horsemad Thu 23-Jan-14 17:20:52

Who owns the house you all live in?

IamRechargingthankYou Thu 23-Jan-14 17:33:06

Ok - read through this quickly, but did notice that you said he was late 20s and basically has been living with his parents his whole life bar a little time when he was a very young adult. His redeeming qualities are that he does interact well with your dc, he thinks of himself as 'Daddy', he insists he doesn't resent them, he has said sorry more than once, he wants to resolve this through talking. The whole thread is full of what's wrong. I think he is just unaware and inexperienced - don't throw away this marriage yet - forget the emotional stuff for now and calmly try and talk with him about finances and the responsibilities that come with running a home. As calmly as you possibly can. You are older and more experienced and hard though it is you must act that way now. He does sound like he is quite nice in many other ways, so I think you should do your best to work this out.

Tryharder Thu 23-Jan-14 17:36:39

I thought once you got married, what's his is yours and yours is his. You are not flat mates divvying up bills and going halves.

It's not fair that he has £1000 leftover for spends whilst you have £200 and you have to buy everything for your children from that.

YANBU.

What if you have children together or lost your job?

Pobblewhohasnotoes Thu 23-Jan-14 17:39:00

The last 3 days we have done nothing but argue. I know in terms of a marriage arguing for 3 days is nothing

I disagree. DH and I have never argued for three days, an evening maybe, but that's it.

Him not able to afford court proceedings is irrelevant. If he stopped buying new clothes and gym membership he could have had the money two years ago. He's not that bothered.

Bloody hell. Cocklodger.

BratinghamPalace Thu 23-Jan-14 17:51:49

OP I do not feel sorry for you. This is a very good day for you indeed. He is a child. A selfish child. You will spend ages trying to teach him and turn it around. It will never happen. End it. This type never changes. Selfish is hard wired. Be open and honest with your children.

Euphemia Thu 23-Jan-14 18:11:35

I've been with DH for twenty years and we've never argued for three hours, never mind three days.

This man needs to fucking well grow up FAST, or you kick his sorry arse out.

Do NOT stand for his emotional and financial abuse.

enriquetheringbearinglizard Thu 23-Jan-14 18:14:15

Him not able to afford court proceedings is irrelevant. If he stopped buying new clothes and gym membership he could have had the money two years ago

OR he could have been saving the money he should've been contributing towards his children's upbringing from the times when his ex didn't want to take it hmm
Presumably any spare money he had during those times he just spent?
and all the extra money he must've had when he was living with his parents and paying buttons towards his 'keep'

What did you fall for Hadenough? what are his good points? or have scales fallen from your eyes and you can't really remember?

He has been living with his parents. He should have money saved for his court proceedings. But like you said anyway.. no real parent just leaves it for years. You make it happen. Leave him he's a twat and you've been had. I'm sorry I know that doesn't feel good. But he is and its true

RainbowSpiral Thu 23-Jan-14 18:36:33

You are both being unreasonable to have this discussion after you have married. This is the kind of thing you need to discuss before you get married. But that said good luck with it all.

ashamedoverthinker Thu 23-Jan-14 18:39:42

I was swearing through my teeth at the screen but when I got to the bt about the electric and there is 1 of him and 3 of you - that says it all really he is not 'married' to you in anyway other than the party he attended and literally names on the same pieces of paper.

Beggars belief there are so may hopeless selfish shits around in this day and age.

He's been earning £2k a month and living with his parents? Does he have £££££££ saved? If not why not?

YoureAllABunchOfBastards Thu 23-Jan-14 18:45:42

He is being a massive, massive twat.

LEMmingaround Thu 23-Jan-14 18:48:38

How long were you with him before you got married?

My DP works, i don't - ok, i don't spend much money on myself because money is tight but the money is most definately ours. When i was working and he was short on work (self employed) the money was ours, just the same.

Aroundtheworldandback Thu 23-Jan-14 19:06:16

I got married last year. I came with two kids and a dog. Dh pays bills, family holidays etc for ALL of us as we are a family and everyone is treated the same.

yorkie11 Thu 23-Jan-14 19:54:00

Sounds awful op. Not read whole thread but working on it.

Airwalk79 Thu 23-Jan-14 20:03:53

When me and dh got together I was a single mum living with my parents. He lived at home also. He understood that being with me also ment taking on my dd. When we moved in together we got a joint mortgage, account etc etc. Everything is in joint names even tho he had a big deposit for our home. Im still a sahm 6 years later. We now have another dc. Neither of us makes big purchases without consulting the other.
I know it's not very constructive but your dh sounds like a selfish pig.
Whats going to happen when you want a holiday / the car blows up / any other issue that sets you back a few hundred. Is he going to trot off to greece whilst you and 'your' kids camp in a tent?

Airwalk79 Thu 23-Jan-14 20:04:29

When me and dh got together I was a single mum living with my parents. He lived at home also. He understood that being with me also ment taking on my dd. When we moved in together we got a joint mortgage, account etc etc. Everything is in joint names even tho he had a big deposit for our home. Im still a sahm 6 years later. We now have another dc. Neither of us makes big purchases without consulting the other.
I know it's not very constructive but your dh sounds like a selfish pig.
Whats going to happen when you want a holiday / the car blows up / any other issue that sets you back a few hundred. Is he going to trot off to greece whilst you and 'your' kids camp in a tent?

temporarilyjerry Thu 23-Jan-14 20:05:03

actions speak louder than words

You hit the nail on the head there, OP.

Iwannalaylikethisforever Thu 23-Jan-14 20:07:18

Sounds like mis placed resentment at paying towards your children and not seeing his own
Honestly I had a friend who's husband took the fuse from an electric heater so it couldn't be used whilst he was at work. Some people are crazy. To think of paying only a third of electricity is madness and emotional fuckery !

Viviennemary Thu 23-Jan-14 20:10:47

I think I'd feel like getting a divorce if I were you. Did you not talk about this before you got married. I agree with shared finances. But not this concept that all money left over can be pooled for spending money.

bouncysmiley Thu 23-Jan-14 20:16:59

The other way to look at it is he earns more so should put more in, that would be fairer!

\What if you had a child together OP? What would he do while you were on maternity pay and couldn't "pay your share"? he'd say where and when you could spend.

I supported dh while he was studying for a while.. and I was happy to do it.

Dh supports me to look after our children now. It's OUR money.

We check with the other person before making big purchases..but that's because money is tight for us. But we don't question food and bloody shopping. Or if I buy myself a top, or him some shoes iyswim?

PolyesterBride Thu 23-Jan-14 20:38:58

Sockpixie - I didn't mean that a partnership is only about money but in the eyes of tax credits she's gained income when she actually hasn't. From a purely financial point of view if nothing else she has lost out.

I don't think this man has the right concept of what a family is. Hope he gets his head around it OP.

MrsCaptainReynolds Thu 23-Jan-14 20:55:00

Wow. Feel bad for you, he sounds like a prize.

Hoisehold costs are household costs -both your responsibility. If he earns twice what you do, he contributes twice as much (or 3x your earnings, 3x the contribution).

If you stay in this relationship make sure you are putting away some hidden rainy day money.

cornflakegirl Thu 23-Jan-14 21:10:01

It sounds like going from playing at families to actually being one is a massive culture shock for him. He's used to just thinking about himself. The question is whether he wants to change. I think felt is right - you need to allow him to feel what he is feeling.

Personally, I'd go for counselling. It's too late for marriage prep, but you do need to have all those discussions, to see whether there is a marriage to save.

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 23-Jan-14 23:23:39

Polyester.

I know you didn't and neither did I, I was talking purely from a tax credit rule viewpoint.

Whist it is possible to live with someone without hmrc considering you to be a couple no way would the op based on the info provided fit, but I quite agree that he should also consider that the gov expects them to share and that's why she would have to claim as a couple and all his income would be looked at not all minus 1k a month for fun money.

Mumoftwoyoungkids Fri 24-Jan-14 03:41:02

How much money have you "lost" by him moving in and you losing tax credits? Because that is probably the minimu. He should be contributing.

Marriages take work. But you need to put your kids ahead of your marriage. If being with him means raising them in poverty then you may be all better off without him.

MsAspreyDiamonds Fri 24-Jan-14 04:49:08
MammaTJ Fri 24-Jan-14 06:05:30

Have you asked him why he didn't save prior to marrying you?

comingintomyown Fri 24-Jan-14 06:28:31

YANBU to expect him to pay half of the utility bills etc even if he doesn't want to pay towards your DCs clothes or other direct expenses. The fact he has even once asked why should he and that he is ok with spending money on fripperies for himself then trotting out Oh I am saving for court proceedings when you argue about bills shows him for what he is

It would be an uphill struggle to change that level of shit attitude even assuming you could . However humiliating the prospect of splitting so early in the marriage is I would not waste any more time on him and just chalk it up to experience

To those saying you should have spoken about all this before marrying I doubt I would ask anyone if they intended paying half the electricity bill because it wouldn't occur to me that they wouldn't and I am guessing he would have made all the right noises in any case just like he does now when you threaten him with the door

nirishma Fri 24-Jan-14 06:33:31

Perhaps he just needs talking round? I earned similar when we got married and my oh earned very little and I didn't see why I had to put all if my wage into a joint account what a selfish Pratt I was. Sure I used to have more to spend in me but now I just put 300 aside into savings for our future and the rest goes on joint expenses etc. tbh now I'm on maternity pay he probably earns more than I do.

Maybe explain that in a marriage you have to have a joint account for finances as everything belongs to the family unit, it's not like being roomies at university? Otherwise speak to his mum or get rid xxx

Ps perhaps this is why he previous marriage didn't work out ...

nirishma Fri 24-Jan-14 06:35:10

Can I just apologise for my awful spelling. I'm feeding my precious first born and half asleep as a result.

Logg1e Fri 24-Jan-14 06:38:47

If he's serious about being sorry then I'd suggest he sets up a direct debit to a joint account. This way you can make all of the decisions to do with shopping and bills and he has no opportunity to slip in to berating you. Make it a generous amount with the idea if a surplus builds up it will be returned. He'll still have £750 for his own discretionary spending.

Somehow I don't think he'll go with this.

Onesie Fri 24-Jan-14 07:40:04

He had more then enough opportunity to save for the court while living with his parents.

You are a family now. A team. He is either in the team or not.

Onesie Fri 24-Jan-14 07:44:27

You are a team. You need to pull finances together, pay for your family together, save towards the court proceedings together, pay for his kids maintenance together.

What will happen if you have a child together? Will that child get more then yours?

Onesie Fri 24-Jan-14 07:46:41

He seems like a lodger at the moment

sebsmummy1 Fri 24-Jan-14 07:48:10

Thing is in OPs position I wouldn't want to have bent an arm behind my husbands back to get some money out of him, I would have more respect for myself than that so can totally understand the feelings of 'Fuck You, keep your money, I want nowt to do with it'.

BobPatSamandIgglePiggle Fri 24-Jan-14 08:15:26

Could you ask him to try living on £200 a month, just for 1 month (actually more like £70 as you probably spend at least 2/3 on your dc) so he can see what you're up against?

hadenough8 Fri 24-Jan-14 08:49:29

We managed to have an unemotional, calm talk last night without arguing, once the dc's were in bed.

I have more of a understanding of why he is like this. Basically this is how he was raised. He comes from a very big family, lots of siblings. Mum and dad had a shelf in the fridge for food which children were not allowed. Mum and dad had best food and children cheaper food.

When older, everyone had to pay their share or go without, for example a lock on the phone and if you were not helping to pay for the phone bill, you were not given the password to use it. Food in the fridge had names on it ie paid for by that person and no one else is allowed any, so if not paying your share, you were only allowed the food with no ones name on it.

All siblings put padlocks on the outside of their bedroom doors to prevent other siblings going into their rooms. Lots of arguments and fights about what belonged to who etc. and so on and on.

So it seems very much the mentality of what is mine is mine and every man for himself.

I was raised totally differently, a much smaller family. I was encouraged to share with my siblings and parents and no one ever went without. There was no best food for mum and dad, we all had the same (age permitting) etc, etc.

He said he doesn't resent my kids, he is just having difficulty adjusting to the way we live, it is all very alien to him. He said at times he feels a bit jealous of the relationship I have with my kids and the way we are as a family, as he never had this. He thinks this is the way that families should live, but at times he just reverts back without even thinking and he wants to try and try again until he gets it right.

He said he is terrified of having to go without as he did growing up and panics.

FunkyBoldRibena Fri 24-Jan-14 08:53:07

But he is ok with your kids having to go without?

Interesting.

Jess03 Fri 24-Jan-14 08:55:38

Blimey, best food for mum and dad? WTF...if he's serious about change, you should manage all money together. He has demonstrated he isn't good at saving on his own. I agree, if 200/month is enough for you, he should be saving his excess and after the dc access is sorted, then saving for a big purchase or something else the family can benefit together from

I grew up in a big family and my father got far better food than everyone else because he insisted that was his right. We also had no money and as an adult I still panic about going back to that.

However, I'd never expect my DH or children to have a poorer life in order to allow me to have better things.

I think you need to look carefully at this and consider - if this is as good as it gets, is it good enough? You can't rely on him changing to make things better.

sebsmummy1 Fri 24-Jan-14 09:03:35

If ever there was a case for counselling I think he is probably it. That sounds like a damaged childhood to me and he needs to get some help for it.

I had a controlling father who also had food in the fridge that was just his, took the keypad out of the phone so we couldn't use it, taped the immersion button down on the boiler etc etc. He wasn't as bad as your husband's parents sound but it was damaging to my sister and I and definitely impacted us growing up.

He really needs to work through this or fuck off back to his parents.

Joysmum Fri 24-Jan-14 09:03:42

Good for you OP. I was going to say what nirishma said.

Mumsnet is skewed towards more people assuming the worst of men, rather than assuming there could be misunderstandings or complete lack of understanding.

It is possible for the same action to have been the result of any number of motives. If course the result is the same, but how you deal with the issues differs depending on the cause.

What you've written makes perfect sense to me and means your marriage can be saved, but prepare yourself for the long haul because no matter how hard he tries, it's hard to change.

I remember my mum telling me that when she and my dad got married, he didn't change his clothes or underwear for 3 days. She was disgusted and he explained that he had my because she hadn't laid any clothes out for him! grin I can here the cries from mumsnet of LTB From here!

Fast forward and my mum had an excellent career, was the main bread winner, my dad did most of the child are and household chores. Good job she didn't LBT as no doubt the general consensus would no doubt be if someone posted a thread on this today wink

If he is serious about doing everything to change then he should go to counselling. CBT would probably be very helpful in getting him to change those automatic thought processes.

I am still a bit sceptical because whatever his background, the fact remains he was happy to spend money on expensive clothes and haircuts while letting you and your kids get by with next to nothing. Even taking his background into account, does that sound like the action of someone who loves you?

Why was he generous with money before moving in, but not after?

Don't get me wrong, it's great you talked and he has some insight into his behaviour, but it's easy to blame everything on your childhood as a cover for what is essentially just selfish and immature behaviour.

hadenough8 Fri 24-Jan-14 09:18:16

Funky, my dc's don't go without, I would never allow that. But I see what you mean. He is saying he didn't realise the impact his actions were having until I pointed it out. This is the first month of him having to contribute to the household.

Jess yes mum and dad had the best quality food, while children had cheaper food or none at all when older and if not able to contribute. Which seems to have then led to siblings taking from each other and the need for locks on doors.

I don't think money is really the issue here to be honest, we have never argued about money before. Money is easily sorted. I think its trust that needs sorting, he doesn't trust me to not leave him skint and without if I have access to his money. I don't trust him to have my childrens best interests at heart.

hadenough8 Fri 24-Jan-14 09:24:44

Dream I assume he was more generous before moving in as it seems to be more about control, not of me as such, but money.

He was in control of what he spent, how much he spent, how much he had left etc and he could insure that his biggest fear of having to go without didn't happen. As I said above, I think its more of a trust issue, than a money one.

BlackDaisies Fri 24-Jan-14 09:28:34

I don't think people would have said LTB joysmum because your dad wasn't being abusive in any way. Just a bit lazy ( and smelly!). But the OP's h is expecting her to live on a pittance, raise her own children alone within their marriage (financially) despite the fact that she earns a fraction of what he earns. He has tried to stop her " wasting " petrol money to shop for food, while he buys clothes and a gym membership just foe himself. OP it's good that you talked, but his anxieties sound deeprooted and maybe should be addressed through counselling. I don't think it IS ok that he has £1000 disposable income while you probably have a few tens of pounds. What sort of marriage will that be? Will you all wear seconds and cut your own hair while he buys what he wants when he wants. This just can't work longterm, and the shocking thing is that he still thought this was unfair on him!! Keep talking and thinking. It's easy to ignore stuff. Before you know it you may have children and leaving becomes so hard. Maybe you should have counselling yourself to get to the bottom if why you feel such a scewed financial set up is acceptable in your marriage. ( I mean the one you originally agreed to.)

I think honestly if you want to make this marriage work, I'd make him going to counseling a condition of continuing to live together. It sounds like he has really deep-seated issues.

MadBusLady Fri 24-Jan-14 09:31:32

No, that's not fair joysmum. We do get similar threads now about men who can't function as adults in some way and the cry isn't "LTB" but "lay it on the line and tell him he needs to grow up".

If we get a thread like that and it turns out the OP has already issued eight separate ultimatums and broken down in tears and been laughed at, THEN it becomes LTB.

Orangeisthenewbanana Fri 24-Jan-14 09:35:08

Good grief, that does go some way to explaining his attitude. How did you decide to move forward from here? It might be worth trying marriage/family counselling to get him past this whole panicking about going without things. Unless he can accept that individuals sometimes do have to go without for the benefit of the rest of the family (in most normal families!), you might end up on a merry-go-round of having these arguments!

SlimJiminy Fri 24-Jan-14 09:46:31

I still think that Marriage Care could help you as a couple even if he decides to get counselling for himself elsewhere.

He's painted a pretty grim picture of his childhood/home life - sounds weird that kids would have padlocks on their doors and names on their food. I'd want to run a mile the moment I was old enough if that was me. But your DH didn't seem to be in any hurry to leave. He was still living there until he moved in with you a month ago - he could've moved out if he wanted to.

No idea how old his siblings are or what their situations were, but I'm pretty sure my dad might have been tempted to have a shelf in the fridge if we were trying to sponge of him in our late 20s... I don't mean he wouldn't help us in a crisis, but no way would he provide free food and shelter to scroungers his kids if they were taking the piss/just couldn't be arsed to move out and take care of themselves.

If he genuinely wants to change, I think you should deal with the finances. Take some control back so you agree on how your joint income is spent. Sit down regularly (weekly?) to discuss what you're spending/saving... and fgs get to the bottom of this court action business... how much does he need? Does he even know? Get a figure and draw up a savings goal for that. Tell him about the £200 self-representing thing and show him that it works both ways - that you'll support him through the legal proceedings because you're a couple with 4 kids in total, not two people with two kids each.

It's good that he's acknowledged his problems - and that you've got a clearer picture about how his upbringing has influenced him - but not many couples would cope with something this significant without the help of a professional. Don't hold off and see what happens/hope he changes now you've had your chat. Make some calls today and book an appointment.

nauticant Fri 24-Jan-14 10:03:17

It sounds like you're thinking about trying to resolve this OP. That's your own choice, after all you know what the situation really is like and what your H is like. But if you do try to resolve this, you really should have as a non-negotiable point that all income goes into a joint pot and once all household expenses are taken out, including paying for your kids necessities, the remainder is then divided in proportion to the contributions. In that way you are both working together financially, which is what a marriage should be about, and also his larger contribution is acknowledged.

hadenough8 Fri 24-Jan-14 10:04:43

Counselling would cost money! No im joking smile

Blackdaisies I don't think I need counselling. I didnt feel such a screwed financial set up is acceptable. I cannot force DH or anyone to give me money. I cannot control dh's thinking or his actions. All I can do is be responsible for my reactions to his behaviour and discuss what I feel is unreasonable. As I said I don't think the real issue is money, I think its trust.

I could insist that DH pay all his money into an account, but I do not want to force someone to do something they don't want to do. Whats the point? it would just add to resentment. I want ds to be able to trust me to have access to his money, not something that is forced upon him.

MadBusLady Fri 24-Jan-14 10:06:35

On a point of information, I note that Marriage Care appears to be a Catholic organisation, and there are other non-religious affiliated counselling services, the most well known of which is probably Relate. And also many individual counsellors offer relationship counselling, of course.

OddFodd Fri 24-Jan-14 10:08:41

How is it that you've married him and not known about his childhood before? Good grief!

I still think you should LTB because you don't trust him to look after your children properly if something happens to you and that says it all really.

BobPatSamandIgglePiggle Fri 24-Jan-14 10:16:28

Maybe silly but could you go to extremes - ask him to live on £200 / sit him down to a steak dinner whilst you and the dc sit down to beans on toast and ask how he feels? It sounds like he genuinely doesn't know how to be part of a normal family set up... Not saying you should but could you find the patience to teach him how much nicer life would be if you all lived equally?

What happens if you all eat out? Do you pay 3/4? Eat from the cheap menu whilst he has steak? What about holidays - would he go first class etc?

hadenough8 Fri 24-Jan-14 10:31:12

Odd I said earlier in the thread when someone asked that we had spoke about childhoods and I knew his was not a loving or caring one. I knew some things about his childhood, but not every last detail. I also said that he idolises his parents and doesn't like to speak ill of them (someone else pointed out on the thread, that this is also common in parent/child relationship where is hasn't been a loving/caring one)

I was aware of lots of issues in his childhood, just not those that we spoke about last night relating to how he is about money. As I also said before marriage we never argued about money, so I never had a need to find out why he was like this around money.

I didn't trust him to be around my children as I thought he resented them. It has become clearer after our talk last night, that it isn't resentment.

For me the real deal breaker would be anyone resenting my kids. I don't think he does, I think it is more about money and trust, rather than resentment. Money and trust can be worked on and I agree counselling as a couple is a good idea.

Of course I could have got that totally wrong and I am sure if I have it will become obvious. Nothing has to be set in stone. I don't have to decide leave this instant or stay for forever. I can see how things go and act accordingly.

Rest assured I will not let anyone act in a way to damage my children.

Thetallesttower Fri 24-Jan-14 10:35:09

Sometimes if someone has had a bad childhood, it will take years and a lot of trust for the full details to come out. Also, it doesn't mean he wouldn't love or want to be with his parents, I don't think it works like that- often people stay trying to be the perfect son or daughter but of course it never gets fixed.

You sound like you have a good plan.

hadenough8 Fri 24-Jan-14 10:44:01

Bob, sitting him down to a steak dinner, while we all eat beans on toast, i think would be particularly cruel after what he told me last night. This is what happened to him as a kid.

We don't live on £200 as such, so we cannot afford food. £200 is what I have spare after paying for food etc. Not what I have to pay for everything. I was just outraged at his suggestion of only having to pay 25% as there is only one of him. After our chat last night, it has become much clearer as to why he would think that way.

I agree he doesn't know how to be part of a different family set up and he has said that he is having difficulties adjusting to how we live as a family. I think he understand that our family live very differently to what he is used to and he can see this is how it should be

Prior to marriage we would all go out for a meal as a family and he would pay. Similar I would cook a nice dinner and buy wine and so on. So things were very much equal.

The problem has arisen since being married and I think him thinking, he is losing control as I said up thread a bit.

hadenough8 Fri 24-Jan-14 10:52:37

tall that is exactly how he is, he is always trying to impress his parents and be the perfect son. Strangely enough his attitude of only having to pay his share of things came about the day after he visited his parents.

hadenough8 Fri 24-Jan-14 11:22:46

slim his parents had a shelf in the fridge just for them, when they were all young children, not working age teen/adults. I can see how having a very large family could be difficult and expensive. Or how parents might well eat steak and kids beans on toast, if the children are not old enough or prefer that kind of food. However, this continued through the teen years and into adulthood.

With regard to court proceedings, as I said it has all got very complicated in the past. He did go to see a solicitor and the solicitor thought that he would need legal representation based on the past, it has been going on for years and years. However thanks, I will pass the info on and see if I can find out more.

SlimJiminy Fri 24-Jan-14 11:32:46

I like the bit about nothing being set in stone. That's a good point. Good luck with everything.

hadenough8 Fri 24-Jan-14 11:44:00

Thanks Slim and everyone else, it has really helped being about to talk about this and hear different view points and advice.

pointythings Fri 24-Jan-14 12:01:11

OP, I think you have good reasons to try and save this marriage. It sounds as if your DH had a really unpleasant childhood. If he can work towards realising that it was not normal, and that sharing as a whole family is emotionally much healthier, then there is hope. I do think he will need some help to deal with the off-track thoughts he has around sharing = risk of being left with nothing though.

Good luck.

cees Fri 24-Jan-14 12:25:18

Yanbu, you sound a very strong woman hadenough, seeing his attitude towards your children and being assertive for them is admirable. They are lucky you see what he is up to now rather then in a few years when he has damaged you and them for good.

I don't know maybe he will change, with you not letting him slip back into resentment to your dc's, it could work but you will always be on alert for him to show his true nature and protect your dcs from it.

Is it worth the effort?

ChasedByBees Fri 24-Jan-14 12:31:20

I think the talk you've had explains a few things but it seems he's not just worried about not having enough, he's actively taking on the role of 'father' as he knows it. So keeping all his money for himself regardless of how others around him might suffer. If he carries on, he will have a shelf of 'best' things whilst you all go without. He's already having haircuts and is able to spend money far more frivolously than you can. That's not a partnership.

Be careful - even though he may not be doing this actively to be cruel, tight or thoughtless, the consequence may well be the same. Your children could end up with the same childhood as him. The additionally complexity of him being in a step father role could really cause damage to their self esteem.

Regardless of the cause, I think stopping this behaviour should be a condition of your future together.

Oh, and it still looks like the 'saving for the court case' is a red herring.

cees Fri 24-Jan-14 12:54:28

Apologies I missed some posts hadenough as you changed a cap on your name so now your posts are not highlighted.

PancakeTuesday Fri 24-Jan-14 12:57:38

So you know now why he acts like he does.

The important thing is now - how is he dealing with what is extremely unreasonable behaviour?

Counselling seems a very good idea, to have someone other than you giving him a reality check.

I get where he is coming from, totally. But he has to break this cycle and start working on his attitudes. Otherwise I don't see hope for your relationship. Good luck.

enriquetheringbearinglizard Fri 24-Jan-14 13:24:30

Good Luck Hadenough.

I'm another who thinks you should speak to him about having an evening or weekend spent sorting out finances and making a plan.

You need to be very clear that regardless of how he's lived in the past, this is where he is now.
I'm also slightly sceptical as to why he went back to live with his parents and how or why they let him live there so cheaply? but that's by the by really.

Please impress up on him that money should never be about control. You are both working adults and in your marriage the finances should be about agreement and joint responsibilities.

When we were first married we both paid all our income into a joint bank account and from there I worked out our money outgoings and paid set amounts every month into a savings account which would cover bills, food and cleaning stuff etc. and some for our joint savings. The money that was left in the current account was for us to draw out our spending money.
Luckily for us we both had exactly the same attitude towards money and we both trusted each other too. There were no complications of existing dependents or anything like that either, which meant it's all pretty straight forward.

Can you just map out what it costs to run the household and what you both think is fair to pay in. Then once a week or month you could show him what's gone out and he'd get an idea of what a grown up home finances look like and still be sure that he had some of his own private money to do as he wishes with?
I'm just thinking seeing it all accounted for on paper might help him get to grips with it all.

His attitude towards your children is something only you can monitor, but at least you're being proactive sooner than later.

OddFodd Fri 24-Jan-14 14:36:55

You obviously don't want to rush into anything but just bear in mind that his childhood is a reason, not an excuse. I agree with the pp who said that he needs counselling - personally I would make that a condition of working on the marriage.

Good luck

AGoodPirate Fri 24-Jan-14 15:36:30

Good luck. Reading again I see he hasn't really lived away from home before. He might be able to grow up yet.

MarniesHere Fri 24-Jan-14 15:41:28

Yanbu. He sounds like a right prick.

jay55 Fri 24-Jan-14 16:02:15

If things were so bad growing up why did he stay living with his parents for so long, given he has a reasonable wage?

cornflakegirl Fri 24-Jan-14 16:08:46

Good luck, Hadenough - I hope the two of you can work this through.

Good luck op, but word of warning. A lot of people have bad or even very abusive childhoods. Some use it as nn excuse and some use it as the fire up our arses we need to get on with life.

Your Dh sounds like the first type. He already has children don't forget he's had a chance and a very good reasreason to figure it all out by now

Pumpkin567 Fri 24-Jan-14 16:24:41

Wow. I fear you have a long battle ahead.

Before we had children we worked out how much it cost to run the house and we paid a % each calculated on how much each of us took home.

This seemed fair, but to be honest we both earn't a very good wage. ( neither of us struggled)

In your situation something similar would be fair. You being left with £200 is outrageously mean.

He's a selfish man and I'd be thinking about showing him the door to reassess his decision. I'm not a LTB type either. He needs a reality check.

Bedsheets4knickers Fri 24-Jan-14 16:48:54

Christ and you've married this man????

tinkertitonk Fri 24-Jan-14 17:09:58

Does your exH contribute to the support of the children that you have together? If not, then your current charmer has some slight excuse for his behaviour.

tinker the current charmer isn't supporting his own children either. SO he can't really rid around on his horse. And he should be upset that he will be ruining the op's chance of getting any gov help since her first husband cana't be arsed to provide

on his high horse!

enriquetheringbearinglizard Fri 24-Jan-14 18:06:58

Sorry I was thinking about this situation while I was away from the computer and now I've come back and read the OP over again

*We sat down and worked out our incomings and outgoings. Just the very basics, rent, food, petrol, electric, gas, bills etc. We both work. DH earns more than me.

Anyhow once incoming and outgoings were worked out, I suggest we could either put all our money together, pay for the basics, then whatever is left we decide whether to save or what to spend it on. DH didn't want to do this.

The only other way I could think of was we pay half each of the basic outgoings. DH agreed to this. This leaves DH with £1,000 and me with £200 spare.*

So, DH is now parting which quite a bit more money for living expenses than he was spending when living with his parents, but he still ends up with £1,000 spare disposable income?

That is right isn't it?

And yet he doesn't have any savings?
He doesn't even have any money to start proceedings so he can see his blood children again?

I've read all the hoo hah about his ex wanting money off him for them and then not wanting money, but I find it hard to understand why he wasn't putting the money by into an account for their future, even if it was years down the line when he could say to them that although he hadn't been part of their lives he was always thinking of them and saving for them.

He doesn't seem either very willing, or able, to stand up to his adult responsibilities. The new jumper, gym membership and haircut comments indicate he's still immature in his ideas of how life works.

alphabook Fri 24-Jan-14 21:20:06

"Then he sat there telling me he had seen a jumper he was going to buy, and spend £100 on gym membership and he left work early to get his haircut etc, etc my heart stopped bleeding! I then thought before marriage, he has had plenty of opportunity to save money, why didn't he."

Have you actually discussed this with him? If he wants every spare penny to be put towards legal costs to the point where he is criticising you for using petrol in order to buy food then he shouldn't be having any luxuries, and this needs to be pointed out to him. And have you ever asked him why he hasn't saved any money before now?

Does your H recognise that his upbringing was completely dysfunctional? Or does he think it's a good way to raise a family?

I have skim read the thread so I haven't read everything, but have you discussed having more children? If so, what does he expect to happen when you are on maternity leave and have very little-to-no income? What would happen if one day you became ill and were unable to work?

I can't comprehend anyone being in a marriage and having such a "what's mine is mine" mentality. You have a long battle ahead of you and I wish you all the luck in the world.

deakymom Fri 24-Jan-14 22:55:46

my husband tried to say he worked therefore he had more of the money for hobbies so i worked it out if we split everything except personal bills (he has a car i dont) then he owes me £40/50 pounds a month he said fine so thats the money i use in fuel taking you shopping i told him i could dot com or walk and he would still owe me money he rapidly decided he was joking and has never mentioned it again and i saved up and bought him a second hand x-box instead of the new one he wanted but he was happy with it anyway its all about compromise and respect if you dont have that you dont have anything (i should point out DH discussed this with me in his joky voice that he uses when he wants something expensive and he would like me to run the numbers to see what we can afford we didnt argue about it)

hadenough8 Sat 25-Jan-14 10:03:30

Well guys it came to a head last night. My dad was taken ill and rushed to hospital via ambulance. I missed the call and I have the house phone set to incoming calls only, (to save money) so could only see the number which called. It was my mum's mobile and I knew something wasn't right, as my mum usually goes to bed very early and never calls in the evening or uses her mobile.

I asked if I could use his mobile to return the call, as he has FREE calls and he said NO!

It was no big deal as I used my mobile to return the call and then found out about my dad.

But you cannot get more begrudging that denying someone a FREE call, especially after being told something isn't right for my my mum to call at this time etc.

I literally hit the roof, luckily kids were in bed. I phoned my cousin to watch the kids, so I could go to hospital and told him to leave. He refused until my cousin got here (who happens to be a 6 foot man) and was 'escorted' out. I had to leave him packing his stuff, so I could get to hospital.

When I got back from hospital, he had taken the Christmas present he gave me. I also had some nasty message on my phone telling me 'I disgust him'

Regardless of his childhood or not that is just unforgivable.

SugarMiceInTheRain Sat 25-Jan-14 10:12:50

Wow, what a horrible, petty man. You are well rid of him. What kind of despicable person denies someone a phone call in that kind of situation???? You are absolutely right - regardless of his childhood issues, that is unforgiveable and shows his true colours more clearly than anything else you have posted about him.

Thetallesttower Sat 25-Jan-14 10:15:35

I'm sorry, but better sorted now than further down the line. That is unforgivable, he just can't work as a team or as a family.

hadenough8 Sat 25-Jan-14 10:20:24

Sugar and to text me that I 'disgust him' while knowing I am at the hospital with my dad in intensive care.

It makes me cringe that I married him.

I'm afraid you will just have to chalk the marriage up to bad experience and move on... you are definitely doing the right thing. And I rarely suggest the LTB approach.

Contact any relevant authorities like tax credits, hb etc asap.
Contact the local registrar and discuss an annulment as financial abuse could be a consideration depending on the Judge.

I hope your dad is Ok.

CrestaRun Sat 25-Jan-14 10:27:12

You've done the right thing, OP.

What a git he sounds. Hope your Dad is ok.

ashamedoverthinker Sat 25-Jan-14 10:30:30

hadenough you are a brave and very sensible women.

I think it does happen (with bother the man or women) that they think getting married or moving in means the relationship changes and they have a 'role' they think they should play rather than a contiuation of the 'nice' relationship building beforehand. I do think (from reading threads in here) some are calculating. I am sorry this has happended to you as you sound like you have your head screwed on and immediately saw red flags. I am pleased he has left.

I once stopped dating a man who said he didnt see his kids much as I thought it wasnt right - you have to wonder why?

I hope your Dad is stable and recovering.

hadenough8 Sat 25-Jan-14 10:32:14

Thanks I could see this coming, I just wasn't expecting it to be so soon, after giving him the benefit of the doubt.

I am off to the hospital again now, I am shaking and the worse part I have to keep my wedding ring on as this is obviously not a subject I want to raise with mum today.

Impatientismymiddlename Sat 25-Jan-14 10:32:32

OMG - I was shocked at his behaviour about splitting the bills but he has really gone too far this time. OP, do not listen to his excuses or petty attempts at using his childhood to explain his behaviour. Change the locks and get some legal advice.

sebsmummy1 Sat 25-Jan-14 10:34:11

A family crisis is always a good test for a faltering relationship. This has shown rather beautifully the total contempt in which he holds your family. What an odorous arsehole he really is.

Do not take him back once he realises his new living situation is worse than his old. You deserve to find someone who really loves you and your children and I don't believe he takes the shape of this man.

Cluffyflump Sat 25-Jan-14 10:38:53

Hope your Dad gets better soon.
I can't believe how nasty your H is!

hadenough8 Sat 25-Jan-14 10:40:36

Yes Impatient, the locks hadn't occurred to me. I am finding it hard to be practical, I am feeling very emotional at the moment what with my dad and then this. I have blocked his number on my phone and that is it so far.

I will write myself a list later this evening. I will be fine, I have my kids to keep me strong.

sebsmummy1 Sat 25-Jan-14 10:43:28

If you are in a joint tenancy agreement with your husband in a rented property then I don't think there is anything you can do unfortunately. You certainly aren't allowed to change the locks without permission of the landlord and if his name is on the rental contract he has a right to live in the property.

clam Sat 25-Jan-14 10:43:38

Sorry if I've missed this, but how long had you known him before you got married?
(and I hope your dad makes a good recovery)

hadenough8 Sat 25-Jan-14 10:44:25

I really cannot get over how nasty he has been, quite a shock for someone you think you know to stoop so low.

I must go, thank you all for listening and wishing my dad well.

ashamedoverthinker Sat 25-Jan-14 11:23:28

its ok to be shaking and emotional you have had one unforntunate shock about your dad and another nasty one about that H. Just roll with it.

Yes please get locks. If he is nasty about that before he left he might get nasty again.

MrsTomHardy Sat 25-Jan-14 11:35:34

Hope your dad is ok OP.

MammaTJ Sat 25-Jan-14 11:54:20

Oh no, what a way to comfirm he is a dick! I would allow a stranger in the street to make a free call from my phone!

So sorry you are going through this, but it sounds like you have a good strong fsmily network for support.

I hope your Dad makes a speedy and full recovery.

cornflakegirl Sat 25-Jan-14 12:10:11

I hope your dad is okay.

But I think you might be overreacting slightly. He didn't deny you use of a phone in an emergency. You just had to use your own phone. He is being mean and trying to hurt you because you got your cousin to throw him out.

It might be that he can't change. But it doesn't seem fair to any of you to make the decision based on one more instance of something he has already recognised is a problem.

clam Sat 25-Jan-14 12:19:03

I think the examples the OP has quoted show a personality I wouldn't share house-room with.

CrestaRun Sat 25-Jan-14 12:19:57

Overreacting?! Blimey cornflakegirl, I don't think she's overreacting at all. If she can't rely on his support in such a stressful situation thrn she's well rid.

Jeez, I'd probably let a stranger use my phone in such an emergency even if it wasn't a free call! How bloody callous is he?

CrestaRun Sat 25-Jan-14 12:21:54

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me to hear he had refused to let her use the car to get to the hospital, he's such an arse.

eddielizzard Sat 25-Jan-14 12:30:18

wow. hugs hadenough8. you poor thing. hope your dad gets better soon.

in a crisis people show their true colours. awful for you, but at least it's happened sooner rather than later. what a shock.

itsbetterthanabox Sat 25-Jan-14 12:44:08

Ltb
He does not care about you or your children. He is simply interested in himself.
Any normal person would want to do what you initially suggested and pay for everything in the household together, pooling the money and then split the money for your personal spending. If he is willing to see you and your children struggle while he has loads of spare money for fun stuff each month then he does not care about you.

OddFodd Sat 25-Jan-14 12:53:33

So sorry about your dad. Hope he makes a swift recovery. Your husband is even more of a git that I first gave him credit for. What a vile excuse for a human being

ChasedByBees Sat 25-Jan-14 12:59:22

I'm quite glad he's shown his true colours so soon. I worried that the 'childhood trauma' line might make you stay out of out guilt, but yes, he is definitely a total dick.

I hope your dad is OK. flowers

jay55 Sat 25-Jan-14 13:01:42

Wow.

Hope you Dad recovers quickly.

Wibblypiglikesbananas Sat 25-Jan-14 13:17:52

You can change the locks if renting - just need to replace the originals before you leave. However, not sure how you stand if both your names are on the paperwork...

Quinteszilla Sat 25-Jan-14 13:19:23

Shocking behaviour.

Jesus Christ. I'm so sorry OP but as you say, his true colours are out now. If he can be that selfish not a day after having a huge talk about improving things, then you know sticking it out would be a long and frustrating process.

I'm sure he'll come back and say he's sorry and he only did it because when he was a child his parents wouldn't let him use the phone blah blah blah but at the end of the day it doesn't matter. You have children, a whole life, you need to be with someone responsible and supportive.

I'm really sorry about your dad, I hope he recovers soon.

cornflakegirl Sat 25-Jan-14 13:36:11

It wasn't an emergency. OP just wanted to save the cost of a call. It was mean, but not meaner than previous behaviour.

He's been a git since, but there has been provocation.

VivaLeBeaver Sat 25-Jan-14 13:55:10

I know its awful but in a way thank yourself lucky that he showed his true colours quickly. Yes it would have been nice if he'd done it before the wedding, etc. but you could have been five years post marriage with kids.

You can change the locks, divorce him and never have to see or deal with him again.

I hope your dad gets better soon.

FunkyBoldRibena Sat 25-Jan-14 14:11:28

If he recently moved in he won't be on the lease. And you are perfectly within your rights to get your cousin to change the locks whilst you are out today and not to give him a key. And to chuck all his belongings on the street and tell him to come and get them pronto. Then get a divorce.

Trofast Sat 25-Jan-14 14:33:13

A good friend spent years in a relationship with a man she really wanted to be sure of, she had kids too. They married and as a lifelong live in partner he was just horrid, mean, selfish and so they divorced a few years later.

She regrets only not doing it sooner, she was embarrassed but it wasn't her fault. He behaved differently once they were married and living together. This is how awful marriages start. You won't let this happen so you and the kids are safe. Be proud.

ShephardsDelight Sat 25-Jan-14 14:38:24

Wow, don't blame you for wanting to get a divorce,

was he like this before?

Backinthering Sat 25-Jan-14 14:41:28

Cornflakegirl how was OPs dad in intensive care not an emergency? And this was BEFORE her cousin threw him out.
I can only assume you have misread the thread.

Wibblypiglikesbananas Sat 25-Jan-14 14:50:51

cornflake - 'there has been provocation'???? I sincerely hope you're not trying to blame the OP here.

ShephardsDelight Sat 25-Jan-14 14:59:18

Just read the whole thread,

Well done you for kicking him out that is disgusting.
I would take you're ring off though if it makes you feel better, you don't want a constant reminder.

His behaviour was atrocious there is no excuse for it. glad you blocked his number. I hope he hasn't taken to fb blasting though, maybe text your mates to keep an eye out.

PavlovtheCat Sat 25-Jan-14 15:02:00

Financial control is sometimes the start of what can becoming an increasingly abusive relationship which can take years and years, and horrendous (potentially ) physical and emotional harm for adult and children victims to recover from.

My view of this is. Regardless of what anyone says here about what is actually going on with your DH his behaviour and how much of a big deal this, his behaviour since your marriage has quickly got your own alarm bells ringing, hence you posting here. Your own fears are concerns are what you should be considering, and it seems to me that your own instincts are telling you to get the hell out as something is very wrong. And so, you must follow those instincts now as later, you will doubt them much more than you are now.

So. From my perspective. It could be that you were foolish for stepping into this marriage without your eyes fully open 'how could you not know he was like this before?' Etc etc. except. Emotionally abusive men an be extremely god at not showing that side. Often it takes longer than now too how their true colours. So. I think it is more that you are actually astute and switched on to notice and act on your instincts and not be blinded by 'oh this is new, let's give it some time' and be blinded by the 'honeymoon' period. And be pleased that you have the confidence to stand up to this now. Many ,many strong women would not immediately act on a gut instinct over what some might think to be 'not a big deal' on its own.

Good luck. You didn't know before as he probably hid it very well. It's sad that he has experienced such a horrid childhood, but that is not your children's fault, and giving him the chance to change his behaviour will mean you may lose the courage further down the line to end this relationship if/when you realise he simply won't change. In turn your children will experience what he did.

pointythings Sat 25-Jan-14 16:32:48

I cannot believe that there is anyone on this thread who thinks his behaviour is in any way forgiveable or excusable. hmm The OP tries to do the right thing to save a bit of money in an emergency and her H says no? Even though it would have cost him nothing to say yes?

OP, I hope your Dad is recovering and I'm very sorry it has come to this. Just let this be the wakeup call and get this cocklodger out of your life, pronto.

LesserOfTwoWeevils Sat 25-Jan-14 17:14:11

Wow. The phone call incident would have been unbelievably selfish and stingy if you had been a complete stranger.

So much for all his claims that he will do better. Now you know when you need him to be there for you, even in a tiny way...he won't.

It's painful but lucky that you got wise to him sooner rather than later. Horrible way to find out, though.

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 25-Jan-14 17:36:30

Shocking behaviour on his behalf,glad you got rid.

I wouldn't even bother about looking into annulling your marriage there is a very very strict criteria for doing that

Read here

https://www.gov.uk/how-to-annul-marriage

It's going to be wait until your anniversary then start a divorce I'm afraid unless any of the above applies.

hippo123 Sat 25-Jan-14 17:49:09

Better to find out a month in than 10 years in. Lots of good advice can be found over on the relationships board. Sorry your going though this hope you have good family and friends to talk to in rl.

EloiseintheSun Sat 25-Jan-14 17:57:50

Could DH save a shed load of money and try to not to involve his first family in legal proceedings. Save lots of money and angst which may also effect you (and your kids indirectly). Can you talk to him about alternatives?

painpaingoawaycomeagainanother Sat 25-Jan-14 18:19:04

Hi there hadenough, I am so sorry to read this.. I do think that you've had a lucky escape though.
Ultimately he has only hurt himself by being as he us. Lost a strong and capable woman.
You however have gained everything, a chance of happiness, hope of meeting someone who loves you wholeheartedly and wishes to be fair and protect you. Your children have had boundaries modelled for them and will surely come to appreciate that you put yours and their needs above a toxic relation ship. Massive well done.

pointythings Sat 25-Jan-14 18:52:46

Eloise, the thread has moved on...

Hissy Sat 25-Jan-14 19:02:07

I was going to post (before I saw your update) that ime men that start out like this with a sudden change, often turn out to be abusive.

Sadly he proved my point before I got the chance to tell you.

This man is a wrong-un. He will never be a good man, and you must keep him gone from your life.

Trust me on this.

Hissy Sat 25-Jan-14 19:02:25

So sorry sad

Joysmum Sat 25-Jan-14 19:09:23

I think you if the right thing to give him the benefit of the doubt because you now know for sure this isn't just a case of re-educating him and reversing the damage his childhood did, you know he's actually a nasty man and I am glad this has come to light sooner rather than later.

Him being such a nasty man had now made it easier for you to split. You're sure if what he is and, apart from deserving better for you. You have your kids to protect.

I wish you all the best for a clean split and mumsnet will give you a gameplay you allow you to achieve that.

nauticant Sat 25-Jan-14 19:22:02

Wow! What an arsehole. Although he has done you a favour by showing his true colours so dramatically sooner rather than later.

I hope your Dad makes a swift recovery. And I hope you quickly adapt to your life taking a different but better course.

Bubblegoose Sat 25-Jan-14 19:28:39

What a horrid little man. You're well rid, OP. Good on you for standing strong.

Hope your dad gets better quickly, what a stressful weekend you must be having flowers.

I hope your Dad is doing OK.

I'm sorry that your H turned out to be a total twat but well done for getting him out now.