to think my sister is vile and that this is totally unacceptable thing to do

(107 Posts)
rainale Sun 12-Jan-14 16:53:33

My sister is a very difficult person with a lot of narcissistic traits and she has long blamed our mum for everything bad that has happened in her life. As a consequence of this my mum and sister (23) have had a rocky relationship for several years (she moved out at 18) but things seemed to be improving in the last few months and at the end of November my sister paid for my mum to go away for a 3 day spa break and she would look after my brother (he stays over at hers once a week anyway).

However during this time she and my brother (13) have entered her house and moved all his possessions into her house and both he and she now say that he is going to live with her. She says that mum is not fit to parent that she won’t allow our mum to damage him or subject him to the hell that she had suffer for her childhood. The recent improvement in the relationship appears all to have been an act and she admits that she paid for my mum to go away to give them the time necessary to facilitate moving all of his stuff. My brother absolutely adores my sister and is very impressionable and dsis is quite manipulative IMO but he says this is what he wants.

Mum is devastated, neither sis nor bro will answer her phone calls and when she went around to dsis house they did not answer the door although dsis shouted at her to fuck off out of the window apparently. I spoke to dsis and she is adamant that she has done this for his sake but that “the fact that the bitch is suffering is an added bonus” I have spoken to him and he says that he also hates her and that dsis is far more of a mother to him and has been since he was very little. I personally think that he enjoys the lack of rules etc that he received when he stayed over at hers about once a week and that she is manipulating him against her (I had no issues with the way we were brought up and some of the examples she gives of our mums failures as a parent are ridiculously minor). I have just got off the phone with mum who is distraught and is begging me to help sort the situation and have dbro back home although she seems unwilling to go down the legal route as she obviously has full parental rights over him.

I want to have a more stern word with my sister and tell her what she has done is terrible and that turning my brother against our mum is a deplorable thing to do as well as return him home to my mum. DH on the other hand says that I should not get involved under any circumstances, our dad for what is worth lives in Singapore and so is not really involved in any of our lives and he hates mum anyway.

MmeLindor Sun 12-Jan-14 16:57:33

Oh, dear. What a mess.

I think your mum has to involve the authorities, tbh. Sounds like your sister has unresolved issues and has persuaded your brother that he'd be better off with her. He is however not old enough to make this decision.

I don't see why you wouldn't get involved though. This is your family.

How is your relationship wiht your sister?

MuttonCadet Sun 12-Jan-14 16:57:51

If you are sure that you have full knowledge then I think you should tell your sister how you feel.

Littlefish Sun 12-Jan-14 16:58:01

I think that you should contact children's services. Your brother is a minor and has been removed from his home without the permission of the person with parental responsibility. As your sister does not have parental responsibility, she will not be able to have any discussions with his school, sign any permission forms on his behalf at school, discuss any of his medical needs with the doctor or the dentist etc.

NotSuchASmugMarriedNow Sun 12-Jan-14 16:59:46

Just ring the bloody police right now.

LeaveTheBastid Sun 12-Jan-14 17:00:34

I'd call 101 personally, she has no parental rights to him even if he is her brother, and he is a minor. This has gone way beyond anything you can do now, time to get the proper authorities involved.

BrianTheMole Sun 12-Jan-14 17:00:51

I would call the police.

How much older are you?

I would question if there is or has been something happening that has caused your Sis and your DB to not want to live with your DM.

I find your DM's reaction strange, I would want to fight tooth and nail to sort this out, especially if there was no truth in this.

Your Mum is still responsible for him attending school, that may not happen, she needs to inform them tomorrow.

Otherwise, who knows what allegations are going to be made.

The CB needs to be handed over, as well, eventually.

NatashaBee Sun 12-Jan-14 17:01:11

I think you need to encourage your mum to take legal action. I would also make sure she notifies the school and doctors that your sister does not have permission to make decisions on behalf of your son.

rainale Sun 12-Jan-14 17:03:09

I'm 26 and my mum doesn't want to involve the relevant authorities out of pride, she seems to think that she/I can resolve it.

Legally, he can decide to live with your Sis, so I would make the school the first call.

They will start pastoral care and may go straight down the CAF route.

As said, your DM needs to instigate this so she doesn't look guilty of the allegations (if she isn't).

Your sis can go down the residency route, your DM needs to realise how this could go, if your sis is determined enough.

Your DB will become a Child In Need.

If your DM doesn't instigate this then she (and you) are failing to safeguard your DB, if Sis is the one with issues.

This needs to be dealt with tomorrow.

LEMoncehadacatcalledSANTA Sun 12-Jan-14 17:06:56

You need to call the police, they will remove your db and take him back to his mother. However, i am interested to know why your sister thinks he is better off with her? What were the issues with her and her mother? Are there issues that your DB is experiencing? This all sounds very tit for tat and i agree wiht your DH that you shouldn't involve yourself and do no more than call the police or social services. They will hopefully then be able to provide the support that your mum and brother needs. Hopefully they may well be able to mediate in the relationship between you and your sister.

OhCobblers Sun 12-Jan-14 17:07:16

I'm astonished that your mum didn't contact the police immediately. This is a ludicrous situation. Why would your husband tell you not to get involved??? Of course you should.

NotSuchASmugMarriedNow Sun 12-Jan-14 17:07:32

The fact that your mum doesn't want to involve the authorities because she is proud is kind of convincing me that she's not a suitable parent anyway to be honest.

I mean really, who lets someone else take their kid away and DOESN'T inform the police.

CakePunch Sun 12-Jan-14 17:07:34

Just because you felt your upbringing was okay doesn't mean your sister isn't valid in her belief that your mother wasn't a good mother to her. I think you need to understand that your sisters perception is allow to be different from yours.
But I'd stay well out of it. You mother can call the police if she wants to.

GimmeDaBoobehz Sun 12-Jan-14 17:08:25

If I were your Mum I would get people involved.

It's either lose a bit of pride or lose the relationship (potentially) with one of her children, I know what I would prefer.

Your sister sounds manipulative. Has he always been this way? Is there anything in particular that has made her start to become abusive to your mother?

What is she actually telling your brother about your Mum? Perhaps you could disprove this.

I can't see why it's none of your business as it's your family.

If I were your Mum I would fight tooth and nail to keep a good relationship with my son - especially if one of my kids was already against me.

IneedAsockamnesty Sun 12-Jan-14 17:09:06

What exactly is it that anybody thinks the police will do with a 13 year old who wants to be where he is if he is not in a unsafe situation?

Welfare check is about it, it's considered to be abusive to drag a teenager out and take them to a home they don't wish to remain in.

Your DB has ran away from home, if youvarent getting it confirmed tonight that he is on bed in your sis's house, you are both failing to report a missing child.

Your DH needs to be aware of this, what if he runs away from your Sis's?

I have known family's to play these games with teens, who usually end up going off the rails/on drugs/stopping education.

IneedAsockamnesty Sun 12-Jan-14 17:09:56

Oh and birds is correct (like normal)

rainale Sun 12-Jan-14 17:13:46

Dsis feels that mum smothered her and sucked all the enjoyment out of her childhood, she uses trvivial and ridiculous examples such as one day she was stopped from going to a friends house to go to our grandmas birthday party as evidence of this.

rainale Sun 12-Jan-14 17:15:24

DH says to not get involved because its such a hornets nest and that I should not get dragged into such a melodrama.

HesterShaw Sun 12-Jan-14 17:16:56

Sometimes parents parent their different children very differently to one another. I'm not saying your sister is right in what she has done, but there will be reasons why she is acting like this.

WestieMamma Sun 12-Jan-14 17:18:22

Am I understanding this correctly, you brother moved into your sister's house at the end of November? What has your mum done about it in the month and half since this happened?

morethanpotatoprints Sun 12-Jan-14 17:22:21

Your mum does need to inform the authorities as he is a minor. Does your dsis live in the catchment for his school. Will he be able to get there and back. Is your dsis able to support him financially and be the mother figure permanently.
These are the questions I would ask her, how will she manage?
It could be worth a try before involving the authorities.

rainale Sun 12-Jan-14 17:25:50

He is still going to the same school as dsis lives roughly the same distance from it as mum does albeit from the opposite direction. Dsis is financially supporting him as she is in quite a well paid job (recruitment consultant).

NotSuchASmugMarriedNow Sun 12-Jan-14 17:26:58

has your mother seen or spent any time with your brother since he's been living with your sister? Who did he spend xmas with? Who goes to the doctors and parents night with him?

The whole thing sounds very odd

NotSuchASmugMarriedNow Sun 12-Jan-14 17:27:27

how does your sister afford to feed him and pay for his expenses?

NotSuchASmugMarriedNow Sun 12-Jan-14 17:28:27

She won't be in a well paid job for long if she gets a conviction for child abduction.

rainale Sun 12-Jan-14 17:30:33

No shes not seen/spoken to him, the only communication they have had is a text when my brother told her to leave him alone. Its not for the lack of trying she has been to her house several times she calls/text/emails several times a day but it gets no response.

TidyDancer Sun 12-Jan-14 17:31:16

I think you need to inform the police. Your brother sounds like he could be quite vulnerable and require protection from your sister. Has your sister ever had any counselling? If you're sure that there's no truth to what she's saying about your mum, it sounds like she may be in need of some help too.

cees Sun 12-Jan-14 17:31:29

Get the authorities involved, it might wake your sister up and give her the shock she deserves.

NotSuchASmugMarriedNow Sun 12-Jan-14 17:31:35

why does she not go to the school?

Littlefish Sun 12-Jan-14 17:33:46

She MUST involve the school, at the very least. If she doesn't, there is very little chance this will ever be resolved.

This is a safeguarding issue. He has run away. He is with someone who does not have parental responsibility and is not able to make decisions on his behalf. He is a minor.

There is no point in her continuing to call/text/email. They have not responded in 2 months.

She must involve the relevant authorities.

She hasn't abducted him, because his Mum hasn't informed anyone, so as soon as she does the Sis is going to say that it was agreed and it looks that way.

If you are a good parent, you don't let your 13 year old leave home.

He has the right to live with your Sis (as said), he will have a CAF instigated, once the school finds out, I didn't realise this happened in November.

Your Mum has not fulfilled her PR duties, she hasn't a leg to stand on.

Either your Sis is stable or isn't and if she isn't then why has she been handed the care of your DB?

If she is then she must be telling the truth.

That's how those in Children and Families will see it.

Your Mum needs to wake up to her responsibilities.

OP have you seen your DB?

Have you or your mum checked with the school that his attendance is good?

Sorry, but your mum is negligent.

MmeLindor Sun 12-Jan-14 17:39:29

Your mum has been incredibly silly in ignoring this so long. Just reread and saw that it has been since Nov.

Why didn't she go to the school and catch your brother there? She can't jsut say 'I went around a few times and he won't see me'.

My brother and I have completely different opinions of our upbringing btw. I think it was fine, he has major issues. Maybe you and your sister should sit down and really talk about her feelings towards your mother.

rainale Sun 12-Jan-14 17:45:02

I've seen him several times and he always robustly argues that mum is a terrible person and dsis looks after him better and is more of a mother to him than she is. I've not checked his school attendance but I don't think dsis would let him skip school and my mum has received no complaints from the school about him.

I don't think she's gone to the school for the risk of it creating an embarassing scene and so pushing him further away.

StanleyLambchop Sun 12-Jan-14 17:50:16

Surely the example you gave is just your Mum being a parent, even if the decision she made was one that your sister disagrees with? Blimey, I have stopped my DC going places and dragged them off to Grandma's on occasions. It can't be just that surely? Your sister sounds full of anger and bitterness. It almost seems like revenge on your mother, not really out of concern for your Dbro. I think you do need the help of the authorities, mainly for your Dbro's sake!

ChatNicknameUnavailable Sun 12-Jan-14 17:51:01

If you are a good parent, you don't let your 13 year old leave home

To be frank, if my 13 year old tried 'leaving home' at 13, he'd have been dragged back by his ear that evening.

Your mum is in the wrong to have allowed this to continue for so long. November? Really? And she's done what exactly...walked past the house to see if they're in a couple of times. With no other contact or updates as to his wellbeing.

Your mum is negligent.

cees Sun 12-Jan-14 17:51:43

Well if your Mum won't help herself then she can hardly expect you to step in and clear it all up for her. If she wants him home she must do what it takes to get him there, this will you sort it without any outside help attitude will get her no where.

rainale Sun 12-Jan-14 17:53:44

StanleyLambchop- I agree and have no issue with our upbringing, to be honest I think dsis has problems and needs to get some help but instead she has preferred to scapegoat mum and has been vengeful and bitter for years.

NatashaBee Sun 12-Jan-14 17:54:18

I completely missed the November bit. Why on earth did your mum not do something sooner? If she does anything now, your sister can argue that your brother has been fine for the last couple of months and your mother wasn't bothered enough to address it sooner.

JanetAndRoy Sun 12-Jan-14 17:58:09

Your Mum went away at the end of November and that is when DB moved out?
So this has been going on for 6 weeks already?! hmm

rainale Sun 12-Jan-14 18:05:24

I know the timescale doesn't look good but it really shook her and scrambled her thoughts. I also accept that have been far too inactive also.

campion Sun 12-Jan-14 18:08:15

Perhaps your Mum is in need of a little support rather than criticism. She obviously isn't sure what to do for the best and your sister (whom you describe yourself as manipulative) is taking advantage of all of you, really.

Your brother, at 13, is easy enough to manipulate and it sounds like she's doing a good job in that respect now that he's parroting his sister (doubtless).

School should be informed tomorrow (speak to the designated Child Protection Officer) and they have a duty of care to take it further. They should keep your mother informed and you must check that they are following everything through properly. A few schools can be a bit slow on the uptake. Your sister does not have the right to remove your brother from his home without proper permission.

Meerka Sun 12-Jan-14 18:32:12

good grief, November?

In that case I'm with your husband. Keep well clear. You stand to loose one or other side of the family (your mum or your brother and/or sister). If this has gone on this long then it's between them.

Bloodyteenagers Sun 12-Jan-14 18:41:39

Since November?
So there has been no professional involvement at all in all this time?
Her pride will get hurt. So her feelings are far superior that that of a child. God grief.
Call Child services. They will talk to him over a period of time without your, your mum or your sister there. They will work with him.

But living there, illegally forever, is not an option.

Someone in his live needs to be a responsible adult. Make the call.

steff13 Sun 12-Jan-14 18:48:26

I think it might be a good idea to call children's services and tell them what's going on. There needs to be an objective third party involved here. I don't mean to be rude, so please don't take it that way, but your dad, your sister, and your brother don't seem to like your mom very much. Is it possible that you are the one who isn't being realistic about what she's like?

CoffeeTea103 Sun 12-Jan-14 19:03:24

Your mother chooses her pride over getting her child back. They may be truth to what your sister is saying. Who does nothing for 6 weeks?

rainale Sun 12-Jan-14 19:31:13

I've just ad a long conversation with my mum and she's agreed that she has been very stupid and she will be contacting the school/childrens services about him. I know leaving it this late does not look favourable on her but she has been badly bewildered by it and she is hurting.

Caitlin17 Sun 12-Jan-14 19:40:02

We only have your side of it.Your mother choosing to do nothing because of her "pride" sounds frankly ridiculous.

TBH I can't imagine any 23 year old voluntarily taking on the care of her 13 year old brother just on a whim.

CoffeeTea103 Sun 12-Jan-14 19:48:17

Something isn't right here, your mothers actions so far are telling of that.

Boreoff456 Sun 12-Jan-14 19:52:30

I am sorry but I don't believe for a second your mum feels her dd kidnapped her ds (and is manipulating him) and has not told any authority figures out of pride.

If she genuinely thought her ds was being used by your dsis, pride would not get in the way.

There is more to this isn't there.

Toecheese Sun 12-Jan-14 19:53:10

I agree you need to get a third party in to mediate and work out a way forward. Agee children's services

lougle Sun 12-Jan-14 20:11:13

There is a massive difference between someone being unpleasant, somewhat self-centred, or a lot self-centred, and bitter, than that same person being 'unstable.'

It's quite possible that the sister is not a danger to her brother in any sense, but equally is not facilitating a positive relationship with their mother.

In that situation, when the mother knows that her DS is safe, that he's still attending school and the sister has the means to provide for him, I can see why she may have initially thought it would blow over and she could 'play the long game'.

I don't think I'd do that myself, but perhaps she felt that if she went over and forced her way in/caused trouble at the school/called the police, she would be giving her DD fuel to add to her fire?

I would call the police for advice on the 101 number, I think. They'll be able to tell you what they can actually do, and what other agencies may be able to do.

ElbowPrincess Sun 12-Jan-14 20:18:40

I was on your mothers side until I realised she has done nothing since November about this!

youarewinning Sun 12-Jan-14 20:21:42

Sounds to me like your mum thought over Christmas/ new year period your bro or sis would crack and he'd return without necessary involvement from outside?

However I agree there has to be more to this? Your Dbro was 8/9 when your sister left? You were 21 at the time? Were you living at home then? Are you aware of what was going on?

Something must of happened for it to come to this. Whether it be your Dsis manipulating your Dbro weekly at their sleepovers into thinking your mum is a bad mum or something has happened your not privy to I couldn't even guess to.

But you need transparency here and agrees a mediator may be the one to find the underlying reasons.

The head teacher would be the way forward, she can have an honest talk and agree for them to set up a CAF.

(Common Assessment Framework) this will support your brother.

This can be taken upto a level 3 by the school, which is under a "Child In Need" and would get your brother an advocate and counselling etc, if he will comply.

The assessment procedure is the same as if the police had got in touch with SS. It isn't about blaming anyone.

It is to make sure that your brother is being well looked after and that his needs are being met.

At his age he can decide on where he lives.

If your Mum receives benefits for him, then she will have big changes happening and will need your support.

I think that you really need to try not to take sides. Whilst I know the phases teens go through (been there) it's very unusual to go from a good relationship to leaving.

Contrary to popular belief, even if the "life of Riley" is on offer, teens choose to be at home.

You need to accept that something has gone wrong, that doesn't just involve your Sis.

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 12-Jan-14 20:27:50

As your DH has more information on this than us he is probable the one that you should listen too.

Where did your brother spend Christmas?

"It's quite possible that the sister is not a danger to her brother in any sense, but equally is not facilitating a positive relationship with their mother."

If she is doing that then it is emotional abuse, there seems to be a lot if ignoring going on in the family.

The OP's DH seems to want that to continue, or he can see something that the OP can't.

stickysausages Sun 12-Jan-14 20:34:49

Agree the authorities need to be involved.

Assuming your mum gets child benefit etc for him? In which case, could it be fraud if he's not living there? Might persuade your mum to act, as your sister sounds the type to report her.

somersethouse Sun 12-Jan-14 20:42:02

Your sister sounds sane. Your mother sounds nuts.

Thatisall Sun 12-Jan-14 20:42:18

I'm going to play devil's advocate (my mum is a horrid person, manipulative and sneaky) and say what if your sister is right?
If dsis believes that her do is suffering or will suffer if he remains in the care if your DM, then essentially she has done a very clever, brave and same thing.
If dsis is wrong then ask yourself this, why won't DM contact the police. To me that is questionable. Does it not suggest that there might be more at play here that DM is worried will come out if the police get involved,

I absolutely think you should get involved and speak frankly to your dsis but be prepared to have an open mind and consider whether she may be in the right here.

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 12-Jan-14 20:44:54


"to be honest I think dsis has problems and needs to get some help but instead she has preferred to scapegoat mum and has been vengeful and bitter for years."

This is "your opinion" it may have no basis in what your sister (or Brother) believes they went through.

This is very, very odd.

I can't imagine a selfish, narcissistic 23 year old taking on the care (including financial care) of a 13 year old as some sort of revenge.

I can't imagine a mother doing jack shit about her son being taken for 6 weeks.

I also think it's a bit odd that your mum has three children and only one of you thinks she's been a good mother...

ComposHat Sun 12-Jan-14 20:59:03

Since November?

Why would a sane, reasonable & loving parent upon discovering her child has been taken from her home, shrugs her shoulders and says 'oh well.'

Surely in these most parents would have been straight round and kick the door down to get their child back. Or if your mum is too proud (and that's a crap excuse) simply met him from school and taken him home.

Has your mum attempted to make contact with her son?

WestieMamma Sun 12-Jan-14 21:04:50

OP from reading your posts here I think you are blind to what is going on. Or rather you are normalising behaviour that is far from normal, but which may be the only normal you know. Since your brother has gone to your sisters your mother's response is at best benign neglect. But you make excuses and absolve her of responsibility for that. 'She's too proud to act', 'she doesn't want to cause a scene', 'she's so upset she can't think straight'.

I suspect that things have never been as rosy in the garden as you like to think and the fact that you have no issues with how you were raised is because you've been conditioned to minimise neglectful behaviour.

Perhaps you are the golden child OP....

ComposHat Sun 12-Jan-14 21:10:39

Don't you find it odd that your dad, sister and brother are all utterly hostile to your mother?

somersethouse Sun 12-Jan-14 21:13:05

BTW I think you are ABSOLUTELY U un thinking your sister is 'vile', the title of your thread,

Agree with others that a 23 year old narc would NOT, NOT take in her 13 year old brother. Your mother sounds odd.

rainale Sun 12-Jan-14 21:14:49

My dad cheated on my mum which lead to an acrimonious divorce, my sister I feel has problems and is driving my brothers feelings. I'm not going to say my mum is perfect she's not but she doesn't deserve the treatment she has received.

somersethouse Sun 12-Jan-14 21:17:13

She still has NOT behaved normally here.

Honestly, she really has not, has she? Do you think she has behaved normally?

somersethouse Sun 12-Jan-14 21:18:07

That is about your mother.
Not your sister, who sounds selfless and very well rounded, to be frank.

LaGuardia Sun 12-Jan-14 21:20:06

Dsis sound like a guardian angel. There is more to this story than meets the eye.

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 12-Jan-14 21:20:48

"my sister I feel has problems and is driving my brothers feelings"

I hate to say this but these are just excuses and are not really anything to do with your mother's lack of effort to get your brother back.

anothernumberone Sun 12-Jan-14 21:22:19

Where was your brother for Christmas? Did your mother see him. Why does your sister have a nights visitation with your brother each week? There is more going on here, none of it adds up. I think the suggestion about going to the school and starting a process whereby your brother determines where he is going to live under the guidnace of a counsellor makes most sense.

Tinkertaylor1 Sun 12-Jan-14 21:23:11

somerset op can think that her sister us vile if she wants . Do you know her ds?

I think my df inlaw is vile - because he is!

rainale Sun 12-Jan-14 21:26:45

He spent Christmas with her, I was with DHs family and my mum went to her cousins although she went round to dsis on Xmas day but they refused to answer even to receive the presents she bought him. He used to stay over at DSis just to spend time with each other, they used to watch a dvd and order in a dominos etc.

ComposHat Sun 12-Jan-14 21:27:28

Do you have children op? If so, how would you react if you came home and found they weren't there. Or you went to to collect them from a relative who refused to hand them over after babysitting?

I don't have children, but I imagine I'd be be gripped with anger, fear and a determination to get them back there and then at all costs, even if the police, social services and uncle Tom Cobbley had to get involved.

PiperRose Sun 12-Jan-14 21:33:00

If your brother has been ok at school, ie if his attendance or grades haven't slipped and he hasn't mentioned to any staff that he is unhappy there is no need for them to set up a CAF.

Your mother should have reported him missing to the police in the first instance, however it is unlikely that they would forcibly return him home. They would have sent a CCN (Child Concern Notification) to Children's Social Care who would have done an initial visit. The likelihood being that as long as your sister passed a welfare check they would advocate that your brother stay there rather than be forcibly returned to a house where there is obviously some friction. They may even talk to your sister and mother about a Private Fostering Arrangement.

If Children's Social Care do become involved I would recommend you ask for a Family Group Conference where every family member concerned is involved, as well as the Social Worker and an Independent Chairperson. The idea being that a plan is created that everyone agrees on.

DontmindifIdo Sun 12-Jan-14 21:33:02

OP - You might not think your mum deserves this, but is there any chance your DB's life with your sister might turn out to be better than with your Mum? Because all the officials being involved won't look at what's fair for your mum, but what's best for DB.

On one hand, it's odd your mum has done nothing, but I can see why she might have thought give it a bit of time, your sister might feel she's got one over on your Mum, then the reality of living with and being responsible for a teenager would kick in and she'd want him to go back without any drama, or that your DB might enjoy living with his Sister and having freedom to start with, then get sick of not being looked after or her rules and want to go back to your mum. But htat hasn't happened. Sadly for you OP, I agree a 23 year old narc is unlikely to take in a 13yo brother, she might like the idea of it, she might even plan it, but I can't see it lasting this long. I also can't see if she's hard to live with that your brother, knowing he could go back to your mums wouldn't just go.

You think your sister is vile for doing this to your mum ,you assume this is something she is doing to hurt your mum, but is there a chance your sister might actually be doing this for your brother? It might not all be about your mum?

Theres a lot in here about your mum ,what this is doing to her, what about your DB? Of all the people involved, he is the most important, where is he best to be living? If he can't live with your Mum anymore for whatever reason, is your sister a fit person to raise him? If not, would you? Someone has to put this boy first, it sounds like your mum is your priority, she shouldn't be, it should be your brother.

somersethouse Sun 12-Jan-14 21:34:11


The OP asked if she was BU to think her sister is vile. Of course she has the right to think that. But I am replying that I think she is BU.
That is the point of this thread.

somersethouse Sun 12-Jan-14 21:37:38

DontmindifIdo you put it perfectly.

Thatisall Sun 12-Jan-14 21:41:09

OP have you actually asked your do why he doesn't want to go home?

diddl Sun 12-Jan-14 21:43:09

It was so well planned it sounds as if he was desperate to get away.

It's not as if he has just stropped off, is it?

Mellowandfruitful Sun 12-Jan-14 21:55:17

OP I think you need to say to your mum, 'Look, I won't turn against you whatever you say, but I need to know if there's anything you haven't told me about why you won't go to the police about DB being at DSis's. Is there something you are frightened will come out?' And make the point to her that she can't hope to hang onto her 'pride' if she really wants him back - that just has to be put on one side.

Also, as Thatisall says, have you had an honest convo with your brother about this? Without your sister there?

pluCaChange Sun 12-Jan-14 22:06:20

Let "the authorities" handle this, as they are an impersonal agent, outside the bad dynamics of your family. Frankly, you can't solve this, as your involvement will be taken as biased (as it is) and an attack.

zippey Sun 12-Jan-14 22:10:39

The fact that DM hasn't informed authorities or tried to get her son back speaks volumes as to her capabilities as a parent I think. Pride is a really bad reason not to fight for her son.

walterwhiteswife Sun 12-Jan-14 22:19:00

if my dsis had taken my ds I would go round and bring him home within an hour. 6 weeks and shes done nothing? !! think u may be seeing mummy thru rose tinted glasses!

When you say "I am not going to say my mum's perfect" what do you mean?

shoom Sun 12-Jan-14 22:57:54

Either the mother posted this story herself recently, or this is happening to someone else on MN as well. The ages and details mentioned in this thread match what I remember of the other one.

Someone else may remember the other thread.

Really shoom?

A wind up do you think?

shoom Sun 12-Jan-14 23:15:03

Walt, I wasn't thinking wind-up, just that it was familiar. (Glad to see you've recovered from "RTFT!" rocking in a corner and muttering about smarties.) grin

The other thread was posted by the mother and said much the same IIRC about a daughter accusing the OP of being narcissistic, manipulating the son and him not wanting to return home. Same ages, son 13/14, daughter early 20s. I'm sure I posted on it but can't see it in TIO, although that only covers the last 21 days. The other thread was probably soon after he disappeared.

Just about, though one never knows when hysteria will strike again! grin

Hmm...that's very interesting. Perhaps OP can come back and clarify!

shoom Sun 12-Jan-14 23:25:05

OP, it's pretty common for siblings to have different views on their upbringings and it's something psychologists recognise as valid.

I agree with PP that your mum should raise this officially with someone. Maybe she waited initially in the hope it could be sorted out after a few days. If you aren't able to help (e.g. point out the legal implications to your siblings) then it seems they'll all just continue on until a third party reports it. It must be known by others, e.g. your brothers friends will know, and it's surely the sort of things teenagers will gossip about.

IDontDoIroning Sun 12-Jan-14 23:39:50

Shoom I remember it too from before Christmas.

FeelingGrinchy Mon 13-Jan-14 00:10:09
ComposHat Mon 13-Jan-14 00:20:59

Yes it is remarkably similar, but the ages (14 in that one, 13 in this) and the dates don't marry up. In this thread the boy was living with his sister by November and the other thread is dated December mentions that the relationship between son and mother deteriorating but he was atill living with his mother.

Mind you it does seem a remarkable coincidence, same family dynamics etc.

shoom Mon 13-Jan-14 00:53:49

After about eleventy years without a decent nights' sleep I'm impressed that my memory got that close smile.

ComposHat Mon 13-Jan-14 01:13:27

That's an impressive feat of recall!

It could still be, the op forgetting that her her brother had turned 14 or mis remembering how long it was he'd been at the sister's place.

Seems too much of a coincidence to have the self same issue, with an early teens boy, a mum and a sister in her mid 20s who has a fractious relationship with the mum and blaming her for an unhappy childhood.

We just need the sister with whom the brother lives to complete the set.

squeakytoy Mon 13-Jan-14 01:56:12

I clearly remembered that previous thread too and was about to post as I have been reading this one to ask if the ops mother was registered on here.

I think there is a lot more to this than what has been posted and get a feeling that there may be very good reasons why the brother has left home.

horsetowater Mon 13-Jan-14 02:19:12

No 13 year old would leave his mother secretly unless there was a very good reason.

OP I think the only thing you can do is get the truth from the boy, and from your Dad. Ask a lot of questions. If you feel there is anything untoward going on you should call social services. This may be seen as abduction in the eyes of the law, yoir sister needs to be careful.

differentnameforthis Mon 13-Jan-14 03:01:54

Just because you felt your upbringing was okay doesn't mean your sister isn't valid in her belief that your mother wasn't a good mother to her

I agree. I had a shit childhood. My brother & sister just can't see it though.

she has been badly bewildered by it and she is hurting. Not good enough. If my child went to live somewhere else I would not wait 6 weeks to act. I would be hurting yes, but that would just make me move quicker to get something done. Your mum putting her own 'bewilderment & hurt' first may be a common theme for your sister...

This isn't about revenge, op. I had a shit childhood, my sister & brother don't see step who lived with us for over 10yrs doesn't see it & still defends her to this day! But in all that, yes, I guess in some way I have wanted some sort of revenge, or karma, or wanted her to know what I felt like. If I acted on it, I wouldn't do it at the expense of my siblings. It isn't their fault they can't see it & it isn't their fault it happened, so I wouldn't want to disrupt them.

Your sister was very clever, played the long game of 'repairing' the relationship, earning trust from your mum, sending her off on holiday, knowing she would look after your brother. Then taking that opportunity to help your ds leave her home.

Revenge is never that well planned or thought out. And usually people try not to hurt others, their only aim is to hurt them one who wronged them.

CouthyMow Mon 13-Jan-14 04:32:48

If my teenager had 'gone to live with someone else' there would be nothing on EARTH that would stop me from calling the police to try to get them back, and I'd be going to a solicitors too, even if I couldn't make the teen return home, to get proper contact set up.

6 weeks?! There IS something going on here, and from what I can see, you are abroad(?) and not there daily to witness what the TRUE situation is.

DizzyZebra Mon 13-Jan-14 04:34:07

Wow. What a mess.

Your Mum needs to be in contact with the relevant authorities and your sister was absolutely in the wrong to set your Mum up like that.

I do agree with posters though about your upbringing. Your sisters feelings are relevant. She is not actually making up lies about her upbringing is she? I had what probably seems to others a good upbringing but it really wasn't and has caused me a lot of problems. Some similar to your sisters actually. Very few people saw the problems though. My brothers didn't.

Also, Narcissists are generally thought to be that way due to some sort of problem during childhood so if she really is narcissistic something made her that way. Narcissism generally is believed to be caused when a child fails to reach certain emotional milestones.

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