To hate that dds teacher puts all their test scores on the board for everyone to see.(94 Posts)
They are in primary still, they write the child's name and scores on the board. DD has sen and struggles and has gone through a phase of saying she is thick and stupid. It also gives the bullies ammunition.
I want to say something but wibu if I did?
This is something that she'll have to get used to IRL though, surely? Several places I've worked in do it with targets. Is it something the teacher is doing to encourage them to improve?
We are encouraged to to this at school.
Can I ask the reasons Reluctant for it?
I teach secondary and we are unequivocally told not to read out test results / attendance percentages / anything else of that ilk.
I get that Tulip I do it just feels a bit of a kick in the teeth to her, She feels she is stupid and thick and then the kids laughing at the score she has got.
At work no one would bully you
hopefully and laugh at you if your disability affected your target.
She is trying her hardest, she is making progress, shaming her against the none sen children in her class is not going to raise her self esteem
Please say something, we had a running war with the HT over a TA who did this with spellings.
She wanted to shame the DCs who didn't bother, but it really upsets DCs who try, but will never consistently get 15/15.
We never totally got it fixed, small village school and the TA was part of the fixtures and fittings. HT seemed to be scared of her, we git the felling he dropped hints, but never ordered her to do it differently.
However, if you don't try you'll never know.
All kids are good at different things. Why should they be made to focus on a negative number that shows none of their talents or abilities at all.
Mean and unnecessary!!
what kind of test results- spellings?
That's a really crap thing to do.
Another poster had a similar issue this week - her dd's class had to tell the rest of the class their test scores, and her dd's was the lowest, and she was really upset.
The MNer talked to the school about this, and it transpired that some children had got lower scores, but had lied, so her dd wasn't bottom - but more importantly, the school took on board how upset the dd had been, and won't be doing this any more.
If I were you, I would talk to the school - I would mention particularly your concern about this policy's impact on your dd's self esteem, and the fact that it is providing ammunition for the bullies - and I would hope they would listen to you, and change this policy.
Seems to be mostly sat results as school do optional sats each year, in this case it was mock sats results.
We have had issues before with a different teacher reading out names of those who had not yet paid for a trip then telling class if people did not pay they all would not be able to go. No issue with telling them they cannot go if not enough people pay but to name the ones who had not at that point paid in front of the rest of the class made me very cross.
They seem to be of a very name and shame attitude.
No, yanbu to not want DDs scores up on a board. I struggled at school and at no point did public confirmation that I was coming bottom for every test help. It only works if your child is motivated by competition and unfortunately having SEN can mean that with all the motivation in the world, some kids will always score lower. FWIW I have always found work much less judgemental than school in this way so I don't think it really does help prepare kids for RL either.
All children need to know is that their best is good enough!!
Putting up sats results is unbelievable!!
And as for the trip thing. That's just
The trip thing was stopped thankfully I was furious at that, was a different teacher but reflected same kind of attitude sadly.
They have targets in their books as well as current store, that is enough for me.
Talk to the teachers. I agree its not appropriate
I teach at a university and we're not allowed to disclose test scores publically (and quite right too). How in in god's name is it considered ok to publically humilaite primary school children?
OP please feed back to the school about how upset your child is. I'd be livid.
I don't agree with it, but it would actually be the one thing that would make my DS do some work...
Not on. At all. I would never do this.
My pupils mark their own spellings and read out their scores out so I can put them in the mark book but I always reiterate they can show me if they don't want to read it out for any reason. This means I've never had anyone upset.
I keep all SATs papers and scores very well hidden. It shouldn't mean much to the children but the I definitely don't want them reported to other parents.
SATs scores go home at the end of the year but not in-between. Children are given targets from the next level up but not a nummerical target.
It's only worthwhile if they match their progress against their own results.
We have spelling tests, one merit mark if you get two more than your last score at the end of the week, two merit marks if you get 100%.
No public declarations of everyone's marks.
It makes me feel uncomfortable tbh. In DD's class they read them out instead of putting on a board but same thing. As well as shaming the child it also doesn't reflect well on the teacher IMO as its always the same children who score the lowest. The teacher can't be doing very well if they never move from the bottom, screams to me that they are being ignored.
This sounds like something out of the ark. I can remember my teachers doing this 40 years ago, but can't imagine any of my teaching colleagues doing it nowadays.
See I would assume that the people who embrace this kind of thing are the same people who have no issue with uber competitive sports days. for your DD.
I used to a TA and have worked in a few schools, none of the schools I have worked in have ever done it.
They have always been put on the board, the last time they read them out to the class and then some children said they had not got their score when the head asked so again it was written on the board.
I can see how it might work for kids who are competitive and coasting along when they can do better but if your child is already trying their hardest then I worry it can cause more harm than good.
It's the new target-setting drive, setting them up for RL. Shame them into doing something about their efforts. Except that doesn't work if they are already giving everything they've got.
But as long as a key part of the judgement made of a teacher is how many sublevels of progress is made by the class, it's likely to increase the pressure on the children.
Some teachers will concentrate intensely on the middle and high achievers, those that are a couple of points off the next level. The child who needs a lot of input to take a small step will be collateral damage.
I can see it's upsetting but my children are 15 and 18 now and whatever their ages and hatever school they have been at everyone has always known the pecking order.
At primary school they were on different tables according to ability and the children all knew which was bottom. Middle, top and inbetween and who sat there. At secondary they have been setted according to abiity and by the time they are 13/14 it's pretty clear who the clever ones are and who they aren't. Never been any bullying though.
It's interesting to compare it to sports days where it's obviously who is the best at sorts even if the day is not that competitive.
My dc are rubbish at sport but good academically. Their being not that great at sport isn't a problem on sports day because the school encourages children to support each other, which they do and it creates a great atmosphere. If the same was done with academic results then at least all children would have the chance to shine at something publicly.
It should be all or nothing IMO. If they are going to let the sporty ones be the best publicly then they should do the same for the academic ones and the creative ones.
Unfortunately I think schools too often let all but the academic ones have their chance to shine.
I had no idea this was so common, none of the schools my DDs attend/have attended ever did this. Nor did any school I ever attended (in Holland) and in fact it was not done until I was at Uni. I think it's terrible, children know perfectly well where they sit in the pecking order as mentioned above. There's no need to rub their noses in it by having it up on the wall in black and white on top of that, and it isn't going to motivate those who work hard but struggle.
I really don't like this. I teach, and our Head of Yr11 is really keen on this - he thinks it will motivate. He wants to put scores and predicted grades etc up on a display board in the corridor. I was quite outspoken at the meeting he proposed it- fortunately it hasn't gone ahead. Prob a massive stereotype but he's a PE teacher, which I suspect has something to do with it.
I'm a primary teacher. I'd never do that. I have given out spelling tests etc and have said very well done to those who have got full marks or high scores.
Those who haven't done so well, I call them out privately and show them. If I know they've tried really hard, I acknowledge that and say well done, you did your best, that's better than your last score, keep trying, etc.
Or else I give them to them facedown, I never let others see what they got. If I know someone should have done better, I will say that to them. I might point out some silly mistakes or say we learned those words last week, you will need to try harder. But definitely in a nice way.
I would never write their scores up on the board, some children will never achieve full marks or a high score, no matter how hard they try. But sometimes these children put in more effort than those who can spell easily.
I've made a big fuss before of such children and says how well they've done, I might even say their score. If it's said and done supportively, the child feels happy and proud, and IME, the other pupils are openly very supportive and encouraging. They all know who is clever and who struggles. That hasn't changed since I was at school.
I'd be speaking to the teacher and telling her how your DD feels. I'd be horrified to think I'd upset a child like that.
Is it proven though that something like this will motivate small children to work harder? Because it certainly wouldn't motivate me as an adult. It might, in fact, piss me off so much that I think fuck it and just not bother at all.
It motivates some and distresses others.
Depends on the individual.
Rather similar responses from parents.
"It's the new target-setting drive, setting them up for RL."
Are there many RL situations where this happens, then?
I love my DD teachers board.
It's called the done well board.
Like tom did well at sitting, Lola did well at signing, Charlie read well.
Where your performance is matched against your peers, in a target-setting environment? Apparently so.
The done well board sounds like an excellent idea
I also used to give merit marks in different colours, depending on what you won them for. So if you had half a dozen blue and no yellow, you needed to work harder on being kind and thoughtful.
Evil seriously in the corridor?
I have nothing against older pupils knowing their position in the class and each others marks within sets who know their strengths and weakness. We used to have a lot of healthy competition in science and maths.
DD1's groups have all been discussing there mock GCSE results. But that's been in a supportive, understanding it's the first time they have done a drama, music listening paper, people knowing DD1 is dyslexic, maths knowing their results look low because they took the same paper as set one, but haven't finished the syllabus. To put all this complexity out in the corridor to be gawped at by Y7 would be totally wrong.
that would have really pissed me off when my children were at primary school, doubtless dd would have been at the bottom every week due to her specific learning difficulties with reading and writing. as a teaching method it stinks, when they are banging on about how lovely and 'inclusive' they are.
I am a secondary school teacher and I would never do this. I will never tell the whole class who got the highest score or what the lowest score was. If I am handing something back I give it directly to the student and face it down so that they can decide who else they show it to.
I know they usually compare anyway but I figure atleast this way if they don't want to they don't have to.
But surely school, especially primary school, is not a "target setting enviroment" where "your performance is matched against your peers"?
Isn't it, in fact, somewhere where children go to learn?
As much as they can and to the best of their abilities, yes, but ultimately it's not really comparable to a working enviroment is it?
It's school ffs.
YANBU, I wouldn't like it either.
I would just contact the teacher and ask them what the thinking is behind it. Let them know you are concerned with how your DD seems to be feeling atm and that you are wondering if it's in part related to this system.
Surely schools are there to nurture all the children to achieve their very best, not pit them against each other?
Are they even allowed to share results in this way under data protection?
I don't like the way that the learning environment has changed in the last decade, I'm glad my two are out of it now.
When I was at grammar school in the 70s though our end of year exam results and position in class by subject and overall were read out and put on our school reports. O'Level passes, including grades, were published by pupil name in the local paper. How times have changed.
How many children with additional needs in your Grammar school though?
yes but at a grammar school it would be fair enuff windmill, as those children have already been selected at 11 plus by ability and comprised the top 20 per cent I think.
in a modern 'inclusive' state primary this kind of practice has no place at all.
Totally wrong. A child with learning difficulties must be absolutely mortified. How is this allowed when some schools will not allow competitive races at Sports Day in case someone loses?
this happened in one of my dds primary classes it was the spelling test for the week winners dd never got off the bottom it makes children targets say something to the school on Monday
Depends on what you think of the teacher but.... [evil smiley]. But you could turn it back around on her...
You could ask the teacher about her lists of scores that show who the teacher is not teaching well enough this week and that you are concerned because they are consistently showing that she isn't teaching your dd well enough.
Not so sure that she would like the scores so much if you turn the scores around to show the failings in her teaching
I was academically dim at school (learnt more when I left!) ad I HATED them putting up test/exam results for all to see. I was always the lowest, even though I worked hard and studied.
and bullied for it.
they shouldn't do ity.
Or maybe more sensibly, if they are insistent on
naming and shaming motivating the dc - if each child had a target score to aim for, the score could just show smiley face if exceed or hit target while a sad face could show those that don't meet it.
That way if your dd has a sensible target, nobody would ever know what her score was as most of the time she should be hitting her target, whilst the clever ones will be kept on their toes as if their target is 100% and they have even 1 wrong spelling they will get a sad face.
YANBU I'd be amazed that a school/teacher would do that. Even back in the day when no-one was politically correct as such, just kind maybe, they did not do that.
It is the same for the children who come last at sports day.
DD also comes last at sports day
She has never been star of the week
Or class ambassador
or star of the month
or had the class trophy
Or the prize box
in the last TWO years.
Whats worse is often she can do it in her head just cannot get it down on paper so she is even more aware and frustrated.
there must have been something she could have been awarded for.
Trying really hard
Its horrible and not necessary. Some children try really hard but will not come top, what about praising for effort
She is nearly always very good and quiet at school, always opens the doors for teachers, is always polite, yet others get it for good manners.
She has made massive progress with her handwriting and maths and yet others get it for improvement.
She has been working with her much loved ta three hours a week and has really tried her hardest and has made more progress than any other child in the class this year (says her teacher) yet other children get it for improvement.
There is the ambassador trophy, star of the week, class trophy and a mention board/prize box. But nadda
that's beyond unfair
She is nearly always very good and quiet at school
This will be why.
They don't need to reward her to get her to repeat it. She'll do it anyway. My DD2 was the same in primary. Very unfair.
I don't understand why they can't always choose a child who is consistently doing what they want alongside the one the want to reward because they don't usually do it. It's what I always did in nursery and pre-school. It isn't rocket science.
This makes me so sad. Why do this?
It's disagraceful. I completely refused to display anything like this including children's individual targets in a public place. Years ago when a stupid adviser told me I must do so I suggested she sack me. I cannot bear this disrespectful treatment of young children whose self esteem can be very fragile particularly of they find academic work difficult. Luckily no one else in my school does this either. Yanbu at allop.
Thank you to the teachers who have replied too, it really helps to see that teachers understand the affect it would have on a child with low self esteem. School obviously don't
It's not just kids with low self esteem. Although predominantly they will be the main ones affected.
Kids are bullied for being smart. The highest scores will also stand out.
Others may see they are above the rest and feel they don't need to try anymore and not make the progress they should.
It's just wrong for all the kids. Can't believe anyone would think otherwise.
One number means nothing as doesn't show how hard any of them have worked .
I hope your dd isn't discouraged. It's a real shame her hard work and her behaviour is going un noticed. But I'm sure you are full of praise at home.
We have 'Top Scorer' certificates for Big Maths. The Numeracy coordinator said the certificates go tot eh person with the highest score on the Total Recall tests. I always said this was unfair and was not a strategy to properly motivate pupils.
I wasn't the brightest at math when when I was younger and knowing the top scorers would be rewarded would make me quit and give up before it had begun because I would KNOW I would never outshine the G&T kids.
So, the Top Scorer certificate is given out to 5 pupils (or more if more than one gets the top score) - one pupil from each ability group - that way even the SEN kids feel as though they are achieving and competition is within ability sets.
However, we are TOLD (as are other local schools) to put up level ladders with the chidren's names on. tTheir name is displayed next to the level they are currently achieving. Luckily, the way in which we talk to our children and encourage them means we have no issues of bullying or teasing regarding lack of ability. If anything, the more able kids are very encouraging and supporting because depedning on their 'expertise', they are made 'experts' and are sometimes drafted in to share knowledge and skills. They love having the role of 'teacher' and know that they couldn't do the job if they were going to be unkind and tease those who are less 'knowledgable' than they are.
They are Y2.
This is completely shocking (I'm not in the UK and have never heard of such a thing). Is this really the norm in lots of places? :O
It's so blatantly obvious how counterproductive and potentially cruel a practice it is! Even the variation that junkfoodaddict describes is just so backward sounding to me... I mean, peer support might have a place, but "experts" assuming the role of teachers for their classmates?! Just thinking about the power dynamics of that, and how it must feel to the kids being "taught" by their peers (or who should be their peers, but who are instead elevated above them for doing better in school!)... wow.
OP, I think you should absolutely make a fuss about this, but reading the replies and the fact that schools / teachers are instructed to do this ( :O ) makes me think it needs a wider effort, some kind of parents' campaign to make it as unacceptable in the context of school policy as it is in the context of basic decency and kindness. Can you approach anyone on the PTA, or talk to other parents in the school to find out if there's any appetite for a group approach?
Sorry for the two missed faces.. I forgot only the smiles convert automatically
Really good point, Giles. I'm lucky in that the DDs' schools don't just believe in rewarding the academic stuff.
DD2 recently got a certificate for helping with reading in Yr1 - which she really loved - and DD1 got house points for helping a friend find her lost PE kit which some little shit had hidden. They're both very academic, but I want them to be all round kind people too.
That's what I like about dds school too pointy
They get positive comments for the work they do.
They get house points for more than just academic stuff (in fact I've yet to hear if any award for academic side or scores )
They focus on things like kindness, friendship, trust, etc on a regular basis.
Amazed you say she has never been awarded for everything. I was always led to believe that 'Pupil of the Week' was essentially on a rota.
Correction: Amazed you say she has never been awarded for anything. I was always led to believe that 'Pupil of the Week' was essentially on a rota.
Its sometimes appropriate in higher sets towards the end of secondary/college when everyone in the class should be capable and there's a few who aren't trying.
Its utterly inappropriate in primary with a mixed ability group.
YANBU. All children should be rewarded on doing as well as they can, regardless of what level anyone else happens to be on. There's no need for this sort of comparison - what's it meant to achieve?
Yes, the "real world" will bring plenty of competition and comparisons, but I think the best way to be prepared for this is building up the confidence of all children, which isn't done by simplistic scores on the board.
We are encouraged to share the results as a class. Ofsted love it!! It's supposed to promote healthy completion and help when peer assessing as they know what to look fir at each grade
We are encouraged to share the results as a class. Ofsted love it!! Well Ofsted are prats. They are people who have not taught for a long time and do not have a clue. This is a sure way to get a school to fail. If I knew that I could not get the top grades then I would give up.
I once did the story of the 3 bears with a nursery class. I told the story and used props of appropriate sizes to help the children with it. Then based all the activities of the session around the story.. My weekly planning showed that I would read the story from a book the next session. The inspector who admitted that he had never taught 3 yr olds, said my lesson was only satisfactory because I did not read the story as well as telling it. He expected the children to be able to sit still for another 10 minutes on top of the 20 or so they were engrossed in retelling. Utter twit.
I started teaching 20 years ago and have always been told that a person's grades are their own personal business and nothing to do with any other child. They are seen as being confidential in the same way that I wouldn't give out home phone number or medical information.
Feel free to step in on this one.
As ukatlast said it's really bad she hasn't got anything - i used to be a year 1 TA and star of the week was essentially on a rota, everyone would get it for something one week throughout the year
Couldn't agree more pudcat re Ofsted
At my previous school during a feedback session an inspector called me the wrong name the whole way through and admitted he had beem looking at a colleagues lesson plam rather than mine the wbole way through my lesson. In another inspection we were crticised for not giving enough responsibility to our year 6s...we were an infant school who had no year 6!
Excuse typos my phone is annoying! !
When my dad was a teacher, they didn't have OFSTED, they had Her Majesty's Inspectors of Schools - known as HMIs - and there was a saying even then - those who can, teach; those who can't, become HMIs. It is sad that that can still be seen to be the case, in the stories here.
It's really crap to do this in a school with such a range and mix of different abilities.
For the posters who argue that this is good preparation for work life - how?! Even in competitive sales-like environments, you wouldn't find such a broad range of abilities in the same workplace with colleagues of the same age and experience.
The real life argument is just nonsense. In real life, I applied for a job I had an aptitude in and desire to do. I had a choice. As it happens, I knew that a competitive environment where i would be pitted against others in a public way based on my results would be a disaster for me. So I chose something where, although of course there is competition in subtle ways, my main motivation is to do better for my students.
How does a child in primary school get to choose? It's a shocking way to motivate a very small number of students who are competitive and able to affect their progress by working hard. For the others, it's pointless at best and hugely detrimental to others.
I accept, reluctantly, the need to share levels with students. I see no need for that sharing to be public. I'm really sorry for your dd, op.
I can't believe this still happens. When I was at school 40 years ago, we were tested for every subject and the results for every test were pinned up for all to see. There was a red line drawn to show everyone who had failed. It was awful and I've never forgotten it. Please go into the school and say something.
Gove and ofsted a great combination!
Lilacroses I can give more examples of their incompetence. We always sait that most Ofsted inspectors were failed teachers who just wanted to get out of the classroom.
Why don't we get kids to do sports day individually in a closed environment then with no prizes or mention of the results? I don't see the issue. If kids are under performing their peers will see that in class anyway, not just from a list pinned to the wall.
This is not a new idea.
This happened when iPad at primary in the '70's
Also happened at DS's primary 10 years ago.
We had an inspector who didn't know the difference between dissolved and melted.
Prizes single out one or two of the highest performing pupils, leaving the non-prize winners in amongst a majority. This doesn't highlight one particular child as under performing.
The fact that the other children may be aware that x isn't good at spelling, doesn't make it OK to put x through the ritual humiliation of having his/her test results announced to the class every week.
Some teachers care about the self esteem of their pupils and understand that lack of it can be an enormous barrier to learning.
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now
Already registered with Mumsnet? Log in to leave your comment or alternatively, sign in with Facebook or Google.
Please login first.