Can't believe what I am reading...

(359 Posts)
SmileItsANewYear Fri 03-Jan-14 18:16:08

Some people think that it's ok to give a child alcohol (as long as over the age of 5)

What the actual fuck?

hoppingmad Fri 03-Jan-14 18:16:44

Context?

Spaulding Fri 03-Jan-14 18:17:08

Who are these people?

IneedAwittierNickname Fri 03-Jan-14 18:17:29

How much alcohol are you taking about?
A sip? A glassfull?

SoonToBeSix Fri 03-Jan-14 18:17:40

Well that's the law and a couple of sips literally a couple if sips at Christmas is fine. I don't think anyone is pouring their five year old a G and T.

Christmaspuddingaddict Fri 03-Jan-14 18:17:46

As far as the law is concerned it is, its not illegal.

lougle Fri 03-Jan-14 18:17:47

Ummm....depends, doesn't it? A 7 year old tasting a tiny sip of wine...no problem.

Nobody would advocate getting children drunk!

SoonToBeSix Fri 03-Jan-14 18:17:55

Sips of wine .

SmileItsANewYear Fri 03-Jan-14 18:17:58

One example was a glass of Baileys given to an 8 year old...

Joules68 Fri 03-Jan-14 18:18:06

They do in France.... Calm down op

MarmaladeBatkins Fri 03-Jan-14 18:18:45

Just say it on the thread, instead of trying to rally support on a new thread. It smacks of desperation to be validated.

Joules68 Fri 03-Jan-14 18:18:45

How big was the glass?

Mim78 Fri 03-Jan-14 18:18:47

I think they may mean this is the legal position re giving alcohol in the home (it is). However doesn't mean it's good idea just not illegal.

Bakerof3pudsxx Fri 03-Jan-14 18:18:49

I really don't understand why this is legal

littlewhitechristmasbag Fri 03-Jan-14 18:18:51

Well it might help to have a bit more information? Parents offering a teen some fizz at a special occasion or people plying 5 year olds with vodka?

GirlWithTheDirtyShirt Fri 03-Jan-14 18:19:01

Well, technically it's legal. I would let an older child have a sip if they asked and a teenager have a glass of wine at appropriate occasions. That's how I was brought up and as a teenager I was never the one raiding my paren's drinks cabinet and vomming all over.

Joules68 Fri 03-Jan-14 18:19:05

Link?

littlewhitechristmasbag Fri 03-Jan-14 18:20:24

Did you see this happen or is someone talking about it on another thread? (Am a tad confused)

Who? My ex-BIL used to let his LO have a sip of beer. Literally a sip. I'd rather that than a can of Coke.

A glass of Baileys sounds very strange.

MrsBungle Fri 03-Jan-14 18:20:47

I think this is regarding the thread about the mumsnetter who left her 4yo to wait on her own in a shop. Just make your point on the thread in question?

SmileItsANewYear Fri 03-Jan-14 18:21:08

I have voiced my opinion, I just can't get over how many people think this is ok and wondered about others opinions, however I am not going to hi-jack a thread where the OP was about something entirely different.

Might be that I am uptight but I would never give a child alcohol regardless of "glass size"

fuckitall Fri 03-Jan-14 18:21:13

I was given brandy in my bottle to help me sleep as a baby, I think that would make some people faint

Oh bum, is this a TAAT?

hoppingmad Fri 03-Jan-14 18:21:32

My oldest dc's have had sips of wine or beer - they don't much like it.
Have never given them baileys but I don't keep it anyway.
What other people do is no concern of mine tbh too knackered to care

It depends on what age the child is, what the alcohol is and how much.

MarmaladeBatkins Fri 03-Jan-14 18:22:56

I gave DS a tiny sip of champagne at a wedding this year. He is 6.

He has survived. He quite liked it.

Joules68 Fri 03-Jan-14 18:23:43

Oh op get over yourself!

If it's a taat then it's poor form!

kelda Fri 03-Jan-14 18:23:59

I don't particularly care if a child has a sip of wine, as long as they are not being plied with pints etc...

But grin at 'they do it in France' - do we really care that much about what they do in France?

DownstairsMixUp Fri 03-Jan-14 18:24:11

Depends though? Like teens i think ok for the odd glass of bucks fizz/wine at xmas or at weddings etc though at the same time i wouldn't be buying them a whole bottle to have... someone i know when their 14 year old had their girlfriend over for the night would buy them a WHOLE bottle of peach snapps for them to take upstairs hmm obviously that i would disagree with!

OP, many adults were given a sip of alcohol as children. I certainly was. It didn't kill us or turn us into raging alcoholics. It might not be your ideal of good parenting but people do it. Did it really need a whole new thread?

RandyRudolf Fri 03-Jan-14 18:24:43

I grew up having secret swigs of my parents drinks. I remember quite liking cider. Mum would let me have a sip of anything at Christmas but a sip it always was.

HaroldTheGoat Fri 03-Jan-14 18:24:44

TAAT isn't it?

Joules68 Fri 03-Jan-14 18:25:22

kelda this forum isn't just for people in the uk, you do know that don't you? Plenty of MNers from other countries and cultures post here...

My parents tried to get me to drink wine mixed with water as a child. However, we lived abroad, where children were raised to drink watered down wine with a meal from a young age. Didn't do me any harm - hate wine every bit as much now as I did then! grin

neiljames77 Fri 03-Jan-14 18:27:39

http://www.semblance.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/opium2.jpg

It used to be worse!!!! 46% alcohol + opium!!

TAAT

DuchessofKirkcaldy Fri 03-Jan-14 18:29:14

My dn (6)had a shandy at new year. 1 finger width of lager in a glass of lemonade. Bil believes that by making it normal and open he won't become a binge drinker and hide it from family.
My siblings and I were also allowed small amounts as children. Weak shandy at Grandmas with Sunday dinner or wine and lemonade(again weak) at special occasions....to be honest we all prefered shloer given a choice. Db still has this instead of wine with meals.

It's the other thread about an onlooker questioning the care of a child in m+s and her mum wanting a badge from mn.

RhondaJean Fri 03-Jan-14 18:30:12

I've always given my children a snowball at Christmas, in a tall glass made up with lemonade.

I'd rather they didn't view alcohol as something special and mysterious, because that's much more likely to make them have a difficult problem with it.

Even my mother who doesn't drink anymore and can be a bit of an arse about other people used to give me a brandy as a child when I had a shock or SN occasional hot toddy when I was ill. I don't understand the pearl clutching shrieking about very small very monitored amounts of alcohol given to children on an irregular basis.

RandyRudolf Fri 03-Jan-14 18:30:53

TAAT ???

Spaulding Fri 03-Jan-14 18:31:27

Ooh it's a TAAT.

Well, I was allowed a glass of wine with my Christmas dinner when I was a child. I survived. I didn't turn out to be a raging alcoholic. I actually don't like wine much. And my parents are great. And awesome GP too.

Nojustalurker Fri 03-Jan-14 18:32:01

What does TAAT mean?

Spaulding Fri 03-Jan-14 18:33:36

Thread About A Thread.

Thread About A Thread = TAAT

GinSoakedMisery Fri 03-Jan-14 18:35:02

Que?

Either tell us the full story or link to the thread.

loveolives Fri 03-Jan-14 18:35:27

My 3 year old had a sip of wine at Xmas grin

I wouldn't waste alcohol on children ;)

SugarHut Fri 03-Jan-14 18:36:33

DS 5 had a white wine spritzer accompanying his Christmas Day starter. About half an inch of white wine, with the rest of the glass topped up with lemonade and water. For his main, he had the same with red. And funnily enough, he is alive and refrained from staggering around slurring "I fucking love you Nanny...no, really.... I fuckkiiiiing looooooove you all." He wasn't sick. He didn't fall asleep and start snoring. In fact, he was brilliantly behaved. And we'll do the same at most family occasions. He is introduced to alcohol as part of a meal. So in his teens it is not some guilty pleasure, forbidden up until now, that he is desperate to gulp down with his friends.

Spaulding Fri 03-Jan-14 18:36:35

Right loveolives, I'm ringing SS! grin

HeadfirstThroughTheTimeVortex Fri 03-Jan-14 18:38:41

My dc's (11, 10, 8 and 6) all had a small amount of fizz in a glass on Xmas day and new years day. They still have a pulse and none are raging alcoholics.

As for Baileys, it's not alcohol, it's pudding wink

My 14year old tried Port for the first time this Christmas, he decided it was too strong, so topped it up with lots of lemonade, DH nearly had a panic attack.

kelda Fri 03-Jan-14 18:40:36

Joules funnily enough, I'm not in the UK myself.

Still find it funny to think if the french do it, it must be ok!

puzzleduck Fri 03-Jan-14 18:44:24

The legal age is 5 for religious reasons, Jewish and catholic, I think.
Alcohol in our day was heavily moderated, pubs and clubs closed early, you could only buy alcohol at off licences now you can get it everywhere at any time.
Alcoholism with multiply in years to come if they don't change the rules back.

muddylettuce Fri 03-Jan-14 18:45:04

From about age 11 I was allowed a can of cider (classy) with Sunday lunch. We then moved to France and it changed to wine and this was not unsual over there). In fact, at a street party in my village all the children were offered eau de vie (paint stripper) When I went off to uni (back in UK) age 18 at the same time as a neighbours's daughter I always remember my mum telling me on the phone that the neighbour's daughter had to have her stomach pumped in the first week. The neighbour couldn't believe it because her daughter didn't drink. 'Exactly' my mum said. Didn't go down well. I think she was right though, there was no mystery there for me. I pushed boundaries of course but never to the extent others did.

mrspremise Fri 03-Jan-14 18:45:54

My seven year old loves his 'poke of wine'; he dips his finger in and licks it. C'est ça, ça suffit smile

Sparklymommy Fri 03-Jan-14 18:46:25

As a child we always had white wine watered down with lemonade at special occasions/family gatherings. I think I discovered port and lemonade at Christmas in my early teens. Neve did me any harm and I rarely drink now. Dh bought me eight little bottles of babycham at Christmas and six are still nestled in the fridge! They will last me until at least Easter!

In comparison, my stepfathers niece was never allowed alcohol. Her mother never had alcohol in the house and was very anal about it. She is now an alcoholic, with a damaged liver at the ripe old age of 30. She went crazy on alcohol as soon as she could.

YABU!

Turkeywurkey Fri 03-Jan-14 18:47:51

What do you think will actually happen op?

SoonToBeSix Fri 03-Jan-14 18:48:27

What does the thread about the four year old in m and s have to do with alchol?

LtEveDallas Fri 03-Jan-14 18:49:48

It's a thread about a thread.

I am the poster that let my 8 year old DD have a small measure of Baileys with ice on Christmas Day.

OP of this thread didn't get the reaction she wanted on the othe thread, so has started her own.

Go for it, I don't care. My child, my home (well MILs home to be exact) and my rules (well, the rules of the UK to be exact).

Topseyt Fri 03-Jan-14 18:50:36

I had the odd glass of wine as a child. It wasn't every night or anything, but it happened and I have lived to tell the tale. My youngest daughter (11 now) was allowed a bucks fizz at breakfast time on Christmas Day this year. Oh dear, I must be such a negligent mum!!

For years whilst I was growing up my parents even brewed their own wine in large demijohn containers which made many bottles each. We were used to having it around us and having a glass each with our Sunday dinners and neither my sister nor I have turned into alcoholic adults.

I was another one who was occasionally given dilute brandy in my bottle as a baby. A number of health visitors even advised it in those dim and distant days apparently - a teaspoonful of brandy, a teaspoonful of sugar and the rest of the bottle topped up with boiled water. You'd be labelled an abusive parent for doing that now, and possibly reported to social services, I don't doubt. I can safely say though, that I am unharmed, living and breathing.

FanjoForTheMammaries Fri 03-Jan-14 18:50:49

I think YaNBU.

Why do 5 and 6 year olds need to have a wine spritzer or a shandy. Its ridiculous, sorry.

If you want to introduce alcohol and make it normal then why not start at say 12.

Joules68 Fri 03-Jan-14 18:51:23

Op? Where are you?

Joules68 Fri 03-Jan-14 18:52:58

LtEve don't think op is getting the reaction on this thread she wanted either

FanjoForTheMammaries Fri 03-Jan-14 18:52:59

I do think starting a thread to comment on someones post is low though.

Why not just start a general discussion.

HeadfirstThroughTheTimeVortex Fri 03-Jan-14 18:55:22

Well nobody actually needs alcohol really, do they?

It's not illegal so it's down to personal choice as a parent.

FanjoForTheMammaries Fri 03-Jan-14 18:56:00

I also think a wee taste of baileys at 8 as a one off treat isnt so bad

Its the idea that the adults are having wine therefore the 5 year old must also that I think is daft.

NoComet Fri 03-Jan-14 18:57:29

I guess I first tasted alcohol about 8. The odd sip of wine, Bailey's or Advocaat

My Great Aunt once ran out of Ribbena, her treat for GN being Ribenna and lemonade, so cave me and my cousins port instead.

I guess my DDs have had the odd sip, half one of my little liqueur glasses from 8/9. DD2(12) doesn't much like most things DD1(15) often does. (Same as food, DD2 is very fussy, DD1 much more adventurous.)

I see absolutely nothing wrong with DCs trying alcohol, having the odd drink when older with family if they understand the difference between drinking something because it goes with a meal and/or it tastes nice and is a treat in moderation.

And drinking as a social activity and deliberately or accidentally getting drunk.

LtEveDallas Fri 03-Jan-14 18:57:32

A glass of wine with dinner, or in my case an 'after dinner drink' on one day of the year is NOT going to harm a child. There were 16 of us at the dinner table. 15 adults and DD. All the women (and one of the men) had a Baileys with their desert (the men decided on port). DD asked if she could have one. I poured her a small measure, added ice, and she drank it over the next hour or so as we were nattering.

So shoot me. Or PM me and I'll give you my full name and address and you can report me to Social Services. Go for it.

FanjoForTheMammaries Fri 03-Jan-14 18:57:47

Anyway have said my piece. Am not getting into a bunfight on behalf of an OP who has buggered off.

kelda Fri 03-Jan-14 18:57:50

I live in a country where like France it is normal to have beer and wine at the dinner table. It is normal for children to have the odd sip of wine etc.

I also live in a student town where students get drunk, lose consciousness, get picked up by police, end having their stomach pumped in hosptial, just like students all over the world.

I have also worked in hospitals here and have seen many people sick with the effects of long term alcohol abuse.

Just because there may not be any mystery surrounding alcohol, does not automatically prevent alcohol related problems in society.

FanjoForTheMammaries Fri 03-Jan-14 18:58:43

I said I didnt think the baileys was that bad LtEve.

Casmama Fri 03-Jan-14 18:58:43

Baileys is far too nice to give to children!

As for watered down beer/ wine - I struggle to get too worked up about it tbh.

FanjoForTheMammaries Fri 03-Jan-14 18:59:27

Am off to have some in fact grin

Nerfmother Fri 03-Jan-14 18:59:29

I'll oblige. I think giving an 8 year old their own glass of baileys is wrong. Sorry Lt Eve. I feel bad as I usually agree with you/ am neutral about what you say. <needy>

LtEveDallas Fri 03-Jan-14 18:59:54

Not aimed at you Fanjo, aimed at OP smile

Pixel Fri 03-Jan-14 19:00:53

I was always allowed little tastes of different drinks as a child, and it hasn't turned me into an alcoholic or pickled my liver. In fact I've never been properly drunk in my life, unlike most people it seems, so I can't see a problem at all really. Children follow by example and sharing a small tot of something during a family christmas is a lot different to seeing your parents roaring drunk every weekend. My parents were responsible drinkers and so am I. My children grew up in a pub (until they were 9 and 5) but have never seen either of their parents the worse for drink and have no interest in it themselves, but if they asked to try something I was drinking I'd certainly let them.

When I say 'never been properly drunk', I must admit to one time when it was a close thing. An elderly neighbour would always invite our family and some of the other neighbours for christmas drinks and a dodgy buffet 'nibbles'. One year when I was about 10 and my sister was 8 she gave us some glasses of very tasty 'lemonade' and we got a bit silly. My mum was horrified when she tasted it and realised it was half full of whisky but we'd had most of it by then grin.

Nerfmother Fri 03-Jan-14 19:01:19

But then I did panic on Xmas day and start a thread checking if a 15 year old could have a Buck's Fizz, so am maybe not the best judge

zippey Fri 03-Jan-14 19:01:33

I give my 2 year old spagetti bolognaise and stew, usually laced with red wine.

I think giving children alchahol from an early age shows you are a responsible parent. It's a bit like giving sex education from an early age.

FanjoForTheMammaries Fri 03-Jan-14 19:02:25

Wee tastes are OK.

Wine spritzers and shandies not so much IMO.

Anyway off to enjoy only perk of adulthood grin

SmileItsANewYear Fri 03-Jan-14 19:02:45

I have no idea what TAAT means?

The only reason I actually started a thread regarding this was to not discuss and unrelated subject to what the OP posted about on the comments. Not the right thing?

I personally don't think alcohol needs to be introduced in childhood years. Teenagers when they are starting to realise more about alcohol but 5,6,7,8 etc year olds. Absolutely no way.

Just my opinion though.

SmileItsANewYear Fri 03-Jan-14 19:03:11

Oh and I also think there is a HUGE difference between a sip and a glass!!

FanjoForTheMammaries Fri 03-Jan-14 19:03:19

Wine spritzers and shandies not ok for 5 and 6 year olds that is

HeadfirstThroughTheTimeVortex Fri 03-Jan-14 19:04:05

We need perspective here, a small amount of Baileys in a glass in a social situation is fine. It's hardly handing them the bottle and a straw and sending them to their room so you can get some peace and quiet. (Plus can you imagine the vomit)

vestandknickers Fri 03-Jan-14 19:04:27

Am I the only one who wants a Baileys now?

SPsWantsCliffInHerStocking Fri 03-Jan-14 19:05:10

I.was allowed the same growing up. Few sips of what ever adults had or I would drink the dregs people had left in their glasses.

HeadfirstThroughTheTimeVortex Fri 03-Jan-14 19:06:12

No I want a Baileys now too, I'm trying to lose weight though!

Nerfmother Fri 03-Jan-14 19:06:45

I also need a baileys and only have peach schnapps

GinSoakedMisery Fri 03-Jan-14 19:06:52

Ds2, aged 8, has a taste of my Baileys (orange truffle yum) on NYE. He declared it disgusting, what the hell does he know.

And I can't see the problem with what LtEve did. It's not as if she challenged her daughter with tequila slammers.

Nerfmother Fri 03-Jan-14 19:07:26

I can't even get dh to pick some up following a promise one year involving a top tip from Bella or some such.

Pixel Fri 03-Jan-14 19:07:50

In my early teens I was sometimes allowed a whole bottle of booze to myself! Babycham that is

SmileItsANewYear Fri 03-Jan-14 19:08:38

OP of this thread didn't get the reaction she wanted on the othe thread, so has started her own

I posted saying I felt sorry for your child actually then wanted to ask the opinions of other MN's about alcohol consumption in children (people who weren't on that thread as most had given up and left you lot to it)

I used the Bailey's as an example as it was the first that came to my head. And ACTUALLY more than myself said they didn't agree so it's not I didn't get the reaction I wanted...

Pixel Fri 03-Jan-14 19:09:05

I've got the orange truffle Baileys. Bit disappointed to be honest, it smells a lot more orangey than it tastes. The coffee one is still my favourite, wish I'd bought that instead now.

TheRealAmandaClarke Fri 03-Jan-14 19:09:16

they do it in france
confused
Not sure we're looking to emulate their phenomenal rates of liver disease.

LtEveDallas Fri 03-Jan-14 19:09:23

I was always allowed either a snowball or babycham on Christmas Day. I'm just keeping up the tradition grin

Primafacie Fri 03-Jan-14 19:09:45

Wow, talk about getting MN validation! I'm the OP on the original T this TAAT is about smile

OP, you are welcome back on my thread whenever, although of course it had nothing to do with alcohol, which is probably why you started your own.

And as an aside, I think YABU.

AllDirections Fri 03-Jan-14 19:09:48

I don't like children being given alcohol at all until about age 14, and even then in limited amounts and only in preparation for the big wide world of pub crawls and nightclubs adulthood. BUT I'm in the minority with my friends in real life as well as here on Mumsnet. My parents plied me with alcohol from a young age which is probably why my views are not the norm.

What I don't get is if there is a tiny amount of alcohol in a drink for a child that it tastes like pop, why not just give them pop? hmm There are lots of adult things that we don't allow our children to do, giving them alcohol is one of those for me.

For a moderate drinker like me I feel the effects of Bailey's after a few sips. There is no way on earth I would give that to a child.

Nerfmother Fri 03-Jan-14 19:10:15

I love babycham.

HeadfirstThroughTheTimeVortex Fri 03-Jan-14 19:12:19

Babycham is vile! If I had some the kids would be more than welcome to it grin

MarmaladeBatkins Fri 03-Jan-14 19:12:23

"I posted saying I felt sorry for your child actually"

What does this even mean?

I see it bandied about on MN a lot, as though one poster feeling sorry for your child is proof enough that your parenting is shit. It doesn't matter a scrap, really. I'm sure there are people out there that feel sorry for my child because I won't let him eat chocolate for breakfast every day but it means fuck all, really.

2Tinsellytocare Fri 03-Jan-14 19:12:48

I don't see the problem with letting your DC try asp of wine especially since its a difficult taste for a young palette but Baileys could be too appealing given its sweet taste iyswim saying that I think the most important thing for kids to grow up sensibly around alcohol is that they don't see you incapable on it

LtEveDallas Fri 03-Jan-14 19:13:13

You feel sorry for my child? Really?

Well I feel sorry for yours, having a passive aggressive judgemental arse for a mother.

How about you save your 'feeling sorry' for the children that really need it. The lost, the abused, the war torn, the starving. NOT my perfectly happy, perfectly sound child who happened to have a shot of Baileys in a happy family setting on her favourite day of the year.

Sheesh. I'd be angry if it wasn't so ridiculous.

The best thing about going to my Nans on Boxing day was the Snowballs, it was the only time I was allowed one, It was a tradition from when I was about 5yrs old.

Really fancy one now, or a Baileys, sadly I've drunk both bottles over xmas.

HaroldTheGoat Fri 03-Jan-14 19:14:15

Why would you say you feel sorry for the child? That's just plain ridiculous.

MarmaladeBatkins Fri 03-Jan-14 19:18:45

I think "I feel sorry for your child" is supposed to be cutting, a way to make you think about what an awful person you are.

Instead, it makes the person saying it look like a pompous arsepart.

ohmymimi Fri 03-Jan-14 19:19:06

Snowballs and port and lemon were always Xmas treats at neighbours' homes. I've never been drunk in my life. It's about context.

Madambossyboots Fri 03-Jan-14 19:19:21

I do believe, I'll be corrected if wrong, from 14 years old children can have certain alcoholic drinks with a meal in a restaurant or bar (that permits children) provided they are accompanied by adults. I think its is fine.
I also think that a small amount of alcohol on (special) occasions is perfectly acceptable. It removes the curiosity and IMO takes away the need to be sneaky, because if children ask to taste alcohol, more often than not they do not like it, but they know if they ask they can have it.
Furthermore sensible parents do not need to be told what amount is ok, grant parents some credit fgs.

SmileItsANewYear Fri 03-Jan-14 19:19:58

Well it's clear we have different views on ridiculous.

Pixel Fri 03-Jan-14 19:21:10

What I don't get is if there is a tiny amount of alcohol in a drink for a child that it tastes like pop, why not just give them pop?

Mine was never disguised as pop, I was allowed to taste the proper drink. Quite liked neat southern comfort as it happens.

My nana used to let me have some sherry trifle at Christmas.

How I survived such abuse, I'll never know.

HaroldTheGoat Fri 03-Jan-14 19:21:45

We certainly do, what a stupid thing to feel sorry for a child over.

BIWI Fri 03-Jan-14 19:21:59

My goodness, there is a lot of hysteria and ignorance about alcohol here!

First, if you put wine (or any other alcohol) in food, and heat it up, the alcohol will be cooked out. It is in there purely to add flavour.

Second, a small glass of alcohol on a special occasion (i.e. only occasionally rather than several times every day) will not harm anyone. And, as the poster who talked about doing this on the other thread (TAAT is very bad form) made clear, it was a small glass, diluted with ice, drunk over a long period of time - and also after food.

Calm down, OP!

MarmaladeBatkins Fri 03-Jan-14 19:22:09

Babycham is called Babycham for a reason.

happytalk13 Fri 03-Jan-14 19:22:15

Hang on <searches for pearls>...nope, sorry, I don't have any of those...

SmileItsANewYear Fri 03-Jan-14 19:22:36

And for the record I am not saying that it makes her a shit mum I am only saying that I think any parent giving a child of 8 a drink which is 17% alcohol has hugely misjudged how to appropriately introduce alcohol to a minor.

An 8 year old doesn't need to understand alcohol IMO. That comes later in life.

LtEveDallas Fri 03-Jan-14 19:23:51

Yes you are nearly correct Madame. The law is beer, wine or cider with a meal in a restaurant at age 16 as long as they are accompanied by an adult.

At home a child over the age of 5 can be given alcohol, it doesn't specify what kind.

Philoslothy Fri 03-Jan-14 19:24:09

I would never give my children Baileys, I would buy then the Lidl version

HeadfirstThroughTheTimeVortex Fri 03-Jan-14 19:24:29

Saying that you feel sorry for someone's child for having a small drink as a one off is ridiculous. Whatever your views on allowing children small amounts of alcohol. It was an unnecessary jibe.

HaroldTheGoat Fri 03-Jan-14 19:25:06

It's baileys not buckfast.

Even if you wouldn't personally do it I don't get why you would say that. Saying "I feel sorry for your child" is totally inferring you think someone is a shit parent else why would you say it?

You could just say, well I don't agree with that or similar.

MarmaladeBatkins Fri 03-Jan-14 19:25:59

You've come across as quite pompous and arsey, OP. On this thread and the other one.

You told me to grow up for mucking about and not hurting anyone, then you said you felt sorry for LtEve's DD.

I bet you're a right bag of laughs. smile

jacks365 Fri 03-Jan-14 19:25:59

I want a baileys too now problem is the onky bottle in the house is my daughter's. Creme caramel one is delicious.

I did allow my children from a youngish age to enjoy a glass of wine with us ( watered down) but since the only drinking that goes on is on a sunday dinner if we have guests the dc got a pretty good example of responsible drinking and emulate that themselves now. Dd1 who is at uni gets fed up with some others attitudes to alcohol and the excess they drink.

So op what age do you deem the absolute minimum for a sip or a very small glass.

happytalk13 Fri 03-Jan-14 19:26:33

As an aside...my DC1 once had a full glass of wine at 2 - exDH had left it on the floor - the mess the next morning.

Still, it was a better choice than other things exDH would leave on the floor - drain cleaner, methylated spirits, nail guns, knives.....

HeadfirstThroughTheTimeVortex Fri 03-Jan-14 19:26:52

Saying that you feel sorry for someone's child is implying that they are a shit parent. It's insulting.

HaroldTheGoat Fri 03-Jan-14 19:27:58

"Can't believe what I'm reading "

"What the actual fuck"

"I feel sorry for your child"

Yep, as pompous as it gets just about.

And if it wasn't enough to have a dig on the thread in question you've started a whole new one.

RhondaJean Fri 03-Jan-14 19:28:05

What ws this original thread anyways?

Weller Fri 03-Jan-14 19:28:19

How things change, I used to make home made baileys with my great aunt at the age of 8, always had a taste and have never really thought about it being appropriate. Teenage years seemed to be the influence for my friends drinking and my own nothing to do with having baileys or snowballs at christmas and new year. My parents definitely did not introduce diamond white which was the choice drink of my friends at the time.

morethanpotatoprints Fri 03-Jan-14 19:29:30

My dc had their first sip of sherry about 4 years old, whenever the glass went down they had a sip, they loved it for the sweetness.
2 are grown up now and don't have a drink problem, in fact they are very conservative with alcohol.
They also had a glass of wine on special occasions as teenagers.
I agree with posters who did likewise and said their dc didn't raid their drinks cabinet, or go to parties that ended with them chucking up.

happytalk13 Fri 03-Jan-14 19:29:39

The one about the nearly 5 year old waiting the other side of the tills at M&S and a concerned member of the public expressing her concern...over...and over....and over again.

SPsWantsCliffInHerStocking Fri 03-Jan-14 19:29:48

I was given Taboo and Lemonade never mind baileys grin

I was 10 when jager bombs were introduced grin

^jager bomb is a joke.

HaroldTheGoat Fri 03-Jan-14 19:29:51

I was always allowed a really lame drink at Christmas such as a snowball or baileys.

It's a splash over ice which dilutes it loads.

AllDirections Fri 03-Jan-14 19:30:37

Mine was never disguised as pop, I was allowed to taste the proper drink. Quite liked neat southern comfort as it happens.

I agree with that Pixel DD1 started on small amounts of neat wine age 15. I wanted her to recognise the taste of alcohol and be familiar with it's real strength. She's 17 now and not bothered about alcohol.

SmileItsANewYear Fri 03-Jan-14 19:31:16

Fair enough. I'll take it read's a pompous and I come across that way. It's my opinion that's all.

SPsWantsCliffInHerStocking Fri 03-Jan-14 19:31:18

Harold And it would take you hours to drink grin

Topseyt Fri 03-Jan-14 19:31:53

I'm hankering after a Baileys now too! Shame I finished the bottle over Christmas. sad

BitOfFunWithSanta Fri 03-Jan-14 19:32:53

Did nobody dip their baby's dummy in brandy then?

LtEveDallas Fri 03-Jan-14 19:33:17

DSD and her mates had some chocolate Baileys this Christmas, by God that was sweet. Certainly couldn't get drunk on that, I'd be puking after the second glass grin.

Now Mint Baileys mmmm, that was nice.

YouTheCat Fri 03-Jan-14 19:33:36

Thread about a thread to have a go at someone else's perfectly legal parenting choices - not good form at all and in fact, against the talk guidelines I believe.

I've got a whole bottle of Baileys left over from Christmas.

Hopasholic Fri 03-Jan-14 19:34:16

Why are both Lteve and Prima saying the OP is referring to their threads? Is the OP of this thread on a mission?????

ChatNicknameUnavailable Fri 03-Jan-14 19:34:28

My 5 and 3 year olds had a champagne spritzer on NYE to toast the New Year with us.

It's the first year they've both managed to stay awake until 12 and ds1 wanted to taste some. They both survived it.

SPsWantsCliffInHerStocking Fri 03-Jan-14 19:34:29

It was whiskey my nanna gave us for teething

BitOfFunWithSanta Fri 03-Jan-14 19:34:37

Oh, and chocolate liqueurs, yes. Used to eat loads of those at Christmas as a child.

jacks365 Fri 03-Jan-14 19:35:55

Thanks for the warning about the chocolate baileys LtEve I fancied trying it but I think I'll pass.

HeadfirstThroughTheTimeVortex Fri 03-Jan-14 19:35:57

I like the coffee one, it's very similar to sheridans. I'm sure I had a nutty one once, that was nice (if it was nut!)

YouTheCat Fri 03-Jan-14 19:36:52

Omg Sheridans - a thing of beauty... but way too good for kids. grin

LtEveDallas Fri 03-Jan-14 19:36:52

Hops, it was my post on Primas thread that OP was referring to.

LegoCaltrops Fri 03-Jan-14 19:37:41

I want Baileys now!

LtEveDallas Fri 03-Jan-14 19:37:59

Ohh Sheridans, I'd forgotten about that. Now that was lovely.

Hopasholic Fri 03-Jan-14 19:38:00

I used to get a bottle top of Bells Whisky to drink when I was about 8 shockUntil my DM realised she was giving me a double Whisky when she once tipped it into a glass.

How did I drink that?? Ugh!

SmileItsANewYear Fri 03-Jan-14 19:38:00

Was not aware this was against talk guidelines. I'm signing off of mumsnet entirely. Have actually been left disgusted by this.

MarmaladeBatkins Fri 03-Jan-14 19:38:48

I rarely, if ever, say this but...

Get a grip.

FFS.

YouTheCat Fri 03-Jan-14 19:38:58

waves

SPsWantsCliffInHerStocking Fri 03-Jan-14 19:39:10

I saw smirnoff vodka chocolates in Tesco. I cant imagine them been nice

I've just remembered I've got a bottle of Berry sheridans. I think that might just satisfy my baileys craving.

squoosh Fri 03-Jan-14 19:39:37

Sheridans!

Haven't seen that since my klassy girlz holiday in Gran Canaria circa 1998.

HeadfirstThroughTheTimeVortex Fri 03-Jan-14 19:39:42

Feel free to take your disgust with you.

happytalk13 Fri 03-Jan-14 19:40:06

LtEve - if you happen to spot the new Berries and Cream Sheridans (think that's what it was called) 3 words of advice:

Run! Run away!

MarmaladeBatkins Fri 03-Jan-14 19:40:23

I remember a boyfriend's mother giving me a Sheridans at Christmas (aged 14)

I thought her incredibly debonair...

Hopasholic Fri 03-Jan-14 19:40:28

Oh I see LtEve. Sorry my brain is addled from drinking Whisky as a child grin

Tweasels Fri 03-Jan-14 19:41:33

I think as long as they don't get pissed it's fine. DS (8) is very hardy and can handle at least 3 blue wkd's. DD(2) is a lightweight and still has to have her martini with lemonade in.

Obviously I'm joking but as I'm guessing LtEve didn't give her DC a pint of Baileys. Just a wee glass, I can't see a problem. We were always given snowball at Christmas and then bottles of Castaway once I was a teenager.

There's a blast from the 90's Castaway!. Can you still get it?

happytalk13 Fri 03-Jan-14 19:41:35

You're leaving MN because some people don't agree with you thinking that people who let their children have a little alcohol at Xmas/Annniversaries etc?

How do you cope in RL?

Joules68 Fri 03-Jan-14 19:41:36

Op is flouncing?

happytalk13 Fri 03-Jan-14 19:42:16

Ooops....sentence was supposed to end with "are the Devil"

Hopasholic Fri 03-Jan-14 19:42:23

Red lambrusco! Anyone remember that? That was definitely my Sunday dinner drink of choice!

HeadfirstThroughTheTimeVortex Fri 03-Jan-14 19:42:32

The first time I ever had Sheridans was in 1998! On holiday too (Benalmadena)! I drank the bar dry of that and Baileys during the happy hour in the first few days. The barman was astonished that they had gone and he had to restock, and I had to survive on Manhattens until he got more in grin

RhondaJean Fri 03-Jan-14 19:42:50

Berry sheridans? Never heard of that, I think there's some of the normal stuff in our drinks cabinet though.

Caitlin17 Fri 03-Jan-14 19:44:19

I recall getting a taste of a commercially made bottled snowball at Hogmanay from an early age as I suspect many of my age and geographical location did. Goodness knows if they still exist, they came in little foil topped bottles same as Babycham,which was also on offer.

Fenton Fri 03-Jan-14 19:44:58

Eldest son (9) sits on the sofa with me of an evening and has a sip of my wine, he's liked it since dipping his dummy in it to 'clean it' as a toddler - no idea ...

Made a lovely homemade baileys type drink over Xmas - yum - eee

happytalk13 Fri 03-Jan-14 19:45:00

Mad Dog 20/20....and Thunderbird (I've not touched Thunderbird since the unfortunate incident of 1990)

LCHammer Fri 03-Jan-14 19:45:08

We used to have sips of red wine for communion. Didn't turn me religious. What's the problem?

PortofinoRevisited Fri 03-Jan-14 19:45:24

My dd is a bit of a Saffy and does eye rolling at most "grown up" things, like tea or 2cm of Prosecco on NYE.

HombreLobo Fri 03-Jan-14 19:45:29

Don't know about castaway but I bought Hoopers Hooch for Christmas for old times sake grin

MarmaladeBatkins Fri 03-Jan-14 19:45:46

You can still get bottled Snowballs.

I bought a pack of 4 for Christmas. blush

Thunderbird... the memories!!

PortofinoRevisited Fri 03-Jan-14 19:46:19

I really fancy a snowball now. I even have the advocat - but not the other stuff.

TheRaniOfYawn Fri 03-Jan-14 19:46:19

I was drinking very watered down wine at family meals from the age of 4 or 5. enough wine to turn the water slightly pink. For me, by the time I was in my teens I was used to nice wine and so didn't bother getting pissed on cheap booze.

YouTheCat Fri 03-Jan-14 19:46:49

Lmao @ LCHammer grin

Porto you only need lemonade

coco44 Fri 03-Jan-14 19:47:19

I gave my 6 yr old a glass of cider when she fell off her bike.Cheered her right up and then she fell asleepl

happytalk13 Fri 03-Jan-14 19:47:23

Binky - or lack of, in my case!

Tweasels Fri 03-Jan-14 19:49:00

Ah Thunderbirds and 20/20, to be fair my mam never gave me that but she did give me the money that was meant for my school lunch which I used to buy it grin

LtEveDallas Fri 03-Jan-14 19:49:03

I made loads of flavoured vodkas ready for Christmas (including Galaxy mmmm) but events conspired to make it 'not quite appropriate' to dish them up. They are sitting in the larder staring at me, but I'd be a right sad sack if I started drinking them on my own.

Reckon they will have to keep until our Easter visit home sad

Last time I had Thunderbird was on my 18th birthday, I remember it well, I rescued a dog, it died in my living room about 2 hrs later, I spent the rest of the evening on my own drinking next to a dead dog.

happytalk13 Fri 03-Jan-14 19:50:09

How do you make Galaxy vodka?

happytalk13 Fri 03-Jan-14 19:51:09

Seriously Binky? That's pretty sad. sad Props for tying to save him/her

3bunnies Fri 03-Jan-14 19:51:46

Nothing like a sip of communion wine to put you off alcohol for a while - certainly dampened 8yr old dd's interest in drinking grin

YouTheCat Fri 03-Jan-14 19:52:04

Aw Binky sad

Tweasels Fri 03-Jan-14 19:52:11

Binky, that is a beautiful, sad and hilarious story rolled into into one grin

PortofinoRevisited Fri 03-Jan-14 19:52:29

No lemonade Binky! sad

Seriously. No one would come and pick up the dog for me, so it stayed there all night until I could carry it down to the vets the next day.

squoosh Fri 03-Jan-14 19:53:07

Communion wine is the pits! In general I find the snacks at Mass to be quite poor.

Porto put it on the shopping list. You can't leave advocaat it goes off.

PortofinoRevisited Fri 03-Jan-14 19:54:14

Hepsi doodah, can't remember her proper MN name had some lovely Werthers vodka when I was round there last month.

squoosh Fri 03-Jan-14 19:54:20

Binky's tale of 18th birthday drunkeness and death is an unwritten Johnny Cash song.

LtEveDallas Fri 03-Jan-14 19:54:33

Aww Binky, that's so sad.

Happytalk, I make it in the dishwasher. I make all my vodkas in the dishwasher - I'm too impatient to wait for it to 'brew'

PortofinoRevisited Fri 03-Jan-14 19:55:19

Binky - I have had the advocat since last Xmas when I last fancied a snowball. It is not looking good is it?

DumSpiroSperHoHoHo Fri 03-Jan-14 19:55:23

I can't remember a time when I wasn't allowed a snowball or two at Christmas tbh grin .

DD is 9 and has occasionally tried a sip of wine or beer and had a teaspoon each of brandy & port while I was making the Christmas cake - she's declared every taste of alcohol 'disgusting' clearly not her mother's daughter in that respect.

I really think it's the parent's call to make and the majority of parents are perfectly capable of doing so sensibly. Quite apart from anything else, how on earth could you police making it illegal confused .

I would have loved to have heard Johnny cash singing a song about me grin

Fenton Fri 03-Jan-14 19:56:31

LtEve - sorry your Holidays haven't quite worked out how they should. Hope your new year brings better things.

Porto, the lemonade is now classed as essential item and must be purchased, the advocaat's life must not be wasted.

RescueCack Fri 03-Jan-14 19:56:52

Binky you are a country music legend.

My 3 yr old is a binge drinker, but only at Christmas in France.

notso Fri 03-Jan-14 19:56:58

My parents were forever plying me with drinks. I was allowed Baileys from 3 and cider from about 8 or 9. I still ended up getting regularly hammered in the park with my mates from about 13. The only difference is while they were drinking White Lightening out the bottle, I was drinking Gin and Tonic from a glass.
I am still a terrible binge drinker. I go for months without any alcohol then drink a bottle of Bacardi when our friends come round. That's probably worse than my parents bottle of wine a night.

PrimalLass Fri 03-Jan-14 19:56:58

My 8-year-old likes the Baileys icecreams ...

happytalk13 Fri 03-Jan-14 19:56:59

I remember my grandmother forgetting about a bottle of advocat...for 3 years...it didn't look appealing...

HeadfirstThroughTheTimeVortex Fri 03-Jan-14 19:57:11

Hahahaha at the Johnny Cash song grin

At least you made his final hours as comfortable as possible Binky, that's so lovely.

I've not got Ring of fire playing in my head. Damn you all!!!!

No problem with a small amount of alcohol imo and there's some evidence that treating it as something forbidden makes it more attractive.

I was going to make the point about the French. Someone dismissed it, but the fact that a whole european country accepts it as normal is at least an indication that it's not intrinsically evil.

I hadn't thought about communion wine, but of course the church considers it fine for children to take alcohol. I think the OP is outnumbered.

Weelady77 Fri 03-Jan-14 19:59:41

I've always gave mines a small watered down glass at special occasions and now there teenagers and very street wise they have never been pissed like half there friends!!

LedareAnsley Fri 03-Jan-14 20:02:55

Real Sangria in Spain as a child. It was the forerunner to alcopops and my parents, not being drinkers had no idea how lethal it was - all that fruit etc.

Absolutely hammered aged ten.

Communion wine was vile. I used to spit it back in blush

MadAsFish Fri 03-Jan-14 20:04:24

do we really care that much about what they do in France?

Well I certainly do, I live here.

Not sure we're looking to emulate their phenomenal rates of liver disease.
What, lower than the UK?
Or if you're looking solely at alcohol-related liver disease, about the same.

PortofinoRevisited Fri 03-Jan-14 20:04:48

<<adds lemonade to shopping list>>

YouTheCat Fri 03-Jan-14 20:05:43

I got tipsy at a Greek wedding in Cyprus aged 18 months. No one gave me the booze though. I was just going around the tables, nicking the champagne.

Apparently I slept well all afternoon.

Joules68 Fri 03-Jan-14 20:07:05

madasfish I knew we had some French MNers, glad you could clarify. smile

LtEveDallas Fri 03-Jan-14 20:07:18

Cheers Fenton. A family member was 'playing up' and another was quite ill, so it just didn't seem right to have an evening of vodka games going on at the same time. Me and the SILs were quite disappointed, but it was still great to be there.

Did the op flounce?
I am very depressed, am poorly and alcohol free and this thread means I need a baileys and cant sad

RhondaJean Fri 03-Jan-14 20:08:22

It's taken me AGES to read primas thread and now I'm not sure it was worth it!

IamInvisible Fri 03-Jan-14 20:08:59

I am actually trying to remember if my DC were as old as 8 when we let them have alcohol at Christmas.

We let them have small glasses of wine, shandies, spritzers. They didn't like snowballs shock, but liked a weak Martini and lemonade. Both DH and I were allowed it as children, so we passed on the tradition.

When they got to 14&15 if they went to parties, where they were supervised, we allowed them to take 3 or 4 bottles of beer or lager.

They are 19&17 now. Neither are big drinkers. They have never come home falling down, puking drunk. DS1 might have got like that in Malia, I expect he did tbh, but that was one week of his life.

The kids who go out on a weekly basis chucking alcohol down their necks until they puke, are the ones who had it hidden away, who weren't allowed it, who were made to believe it was bad.

I am happy with the decisions that DH and I made regarding our DC and alcohol.

MarmaladeBatkins Fri 03-Jan-14 20:10:52

You never see French kids on 'What Happens in Kavos'...

jacks365 Fri 03-Jan-14 20:12:10

The op did quite a spectacular flounce now back to important things how do you make flavoured vodka in a dishwasher.

YouTheCat Fri 03-Jan-14 20:13:31

I haven't got a dishwasher. sad

Skrifa Fri 03-Jan-14 20:15:09

I have been happy to let my DC have a small sip of wine.

They all hate it.

hmm

PedlarsSpanner Fri 03-Jan-14 20:15:34

Hurhur at the Flounce, oh dearie me OP. Egg/face.

PortofinoRevisited Fri 03-Jan-14 20:15:56

Belgian children all seem to do sport and worthy activities. You don't see them pissed in bars or hanging round bus stops.

sicily1921 Fri 03-Jan-14 20:15:59

Yep depends on child's age, how much etc. How should we (serious question) introduce them to alcoholic drinks, surely just waving them off down the pub aged 18 for their first drink is a bit, don't know, odd? Isn't it better to let them have a responsible drink at home as long as not too much?

Rufustherednosedreindeer Fri 03-Jan-14 20:16:29

Genuine question

Is there any evidence that being given moderate amounts of alcohol in childhood means that your children won't be necking it in a park or vice versa. Or is it just in our experiences?

I say that as someone who has let their children have a sip of alcohol, has given her nearly 15 year old snowballs this Christmas (he loves them) and was allowed babycham and snowballs at special occasions when she was in her mid teens. And did not drink in a bib way til she was well into her 30's

So no axe to bring just curious

GinSoakedMisery Fri 03-Jan-14 20:23:33

Op is flouncing over this thread? But nobody even said DFOTAD sad

tiredbutstillsmiling Fri 03-Jan-14 20:25:55

I remember my dad giving me a glass of cider (classy!) with my Sunday roast each week when I would've been under 10.

I was never one for going to "the woods" (as was the local hangout) & getting outrageously drunk. Tbh I've never really been a huge drinker & now rarely drink.

Alcohol was never "glamorous" or something "only adults" drank therefore didn't have a secretive appeal.

My DD is 2 but I'll let her try alcohol under my supervision, I want her attitude to it to be like mine and DH's (he's a "rarely" drinker too).

LtEveDallas Fri 03-Jan-14 20:26:12

Jacks, all my flavoured vodkas are sweetie based. Just bash up boiled sweets (rhubarb and custard, kola cube, Werthers etc) add to a bottle 3/4 full of vodka and put in the dishwasher on the hottest wash. The sweets dissolve into the vodka and it ends up tasting fab! The more sweets you add the thicker the drink, and if you put it in the freezer afterwards it goes like a liqueur.

IamInvisible Fri 03-Jan-14 20:31:36

I don't know Rufus, I suppose it depends on the child too.

My sister had the same upbringing as my brother and I. We had small glasses of wine on special occasions, and drinks at Christmas, yet as soon as she was 14 she was drinking at every opportunity. She looked older so would get into pubs, she'd drink in the park, she'd regularly come home puking.

My brother only did it a handful of times. I am 43 next month and have never been drunk.

My sister is still a binge drinker. She was strict with her DC, her DD is 22 and a binge drinker.

My brother was stricter with his DD than I was, she wasn't allowed to go on a 'girls holiday', she wasn't allowed to parties but went behind his back. She binge drinks most weekends.

DS1 is really into health and fitness so spends the vast majority of his time in the gym or exercising. I suppose he would think he was wasting his time if he did that then binged on drink all weekend.

My friend made chocolate cream vodka liqueur for our recent reunion. Warm cream, pour it over chopped up chocolate, and stir in vodka to a drinkable consistency. It was gorgeous!

NoComet Fri 03-Jan-14 20:37:29

I think Rufus that is an impossible question to answer

There are too many conflicting variables.

I was brought up in a small town where we all drank in the pubs from 14, but I have an almost Teetotal Father. Had I can home rolling drunk I would have been grounded for life.

My DF had a rugby playing, moderate drinking Dad and she drank far more than me as a teen and as a student.

At university, the students from cities, where 18 was enforced, drank far less responsibly (in general) than those of us who had done that and got the t-shirt already.

Thus I can't see how you untangle moderate childhood drinking from family, peer group and community attitudes to drink.

bisjo Fri 03-Jan-14 20:40:01

I can't see how you can compare Babycham at 6% ABV to Baileys at 17% ABV.

LtEveDallas Fri 03-Jan-14 20:44:42

Who did?

mellicauli Fri 03-Jan-14 20:47:20

My grandmother told me they regularly had a mix of water and wine when she was growing up. (French/German Middle class household, 1900s) Her and her sister both lived to their mid nineties, so can't have been too bad for her. I wouldn't do it though..any reduction in self control would render my offspring as a danger to others...

bisjo Fri 03-Jan-14 20:47:29

Someone on this thread said that they had Babycham when they were young and thought it was therefore ok to give their dc a glass of Baileys. Can't remember poster's name but it did seem a rather odd comparision when you consider the difference in ABV between the two.

bisjo Fri 03-Jan-14 20:50:41

Found the post and realised it was you LtEveDallas

I was always allowed either a snowball or babycham on Christmas Day. I'm just keeping up the tradition grin

BIWI Fri 03-Jan-14 20:51:31

But you wouldn't drink the same quantity, would you? I don't know how much is in a bottle of Babycham, but it's probably at least 150ml, maybe 200ml. Whereas a measure of Baileys will be considerably less than that.

Primafacie Fri 03-Jan-14 20:51:32

*Add message | Report | Message poster squoosh Fri 03-Jan-14 19:53:07
Communion wine is the pits! In general I find the snacks at Mass to be quite poor.*

This made me lol!

LtEveDallas Fri 03-Jan-14 20:52:36

OK, well that would be me, but that's not what I said, nor any part of my reasoning for allowing my DD to have a glass of Baileys on Christmas Day. DD asked for some, I decided that there was no risk involved nor reason not to, so allowed her to have a small glass, with ice, after a very large meal, as part of the Christmas celebrations within her family environment.

LtEveDallas Fri 03-Jan-14 20:53:59

Ahh, missed a line out "I thought the grin made it obvious my comment was tongue in cheek"

bisjo Fri 03-Jan-14 20:54:12

Personally I wouldn't let a child try a sweet alcoholic drink like Baileys as it doesn't taste overly alcoholic, although of course it is extremely so. Ds (9) has tried a sip of beer and red wine (not together) and hated both because they are bitter to taste. I'm happy that he continues to think that alcoholic drinks don't taste very nice.

bisjo Fri 03-Jan-14 20:57:23

Sorry I missed the joke bit. Just thought you meant it was okay to have one because you'd grown up having the other. Didn't realise that neither was true blush

"My friend made chocolate cream vodka liqueur for our recent reunion. Warm cream, pour it over chopped up chocolate, and stir in vodka to a drinkable consistency. It was gorgeous!"

OMG, I have missed Baileys since I became Vegan, I used to use Vodka as a mixer for Baileys.

I am going to get experimenting.

Sparklymommy Fri 03-Jan-14 21:02:56

All this talk of Baileys! It's gross! Haha!

Babycham is my favourite drink but only available in the run up to Christmas. And martini and lemonade. Not together I must add. Or port. I do like a nice port.

Mad dog 20/20 was nice too. Haven't seen that in years.

WaffilyVersatile Fri 03-Jan-14 21:05:41

I gave my 7yr old a sip of my snowball (she didn't like it) and my 12 yr old had half a glass of wine with Christmas dinner and a (weak) snowball in the evening. He loved it and I don't see any issue with it.

We had wine spritzer with dinner every sunday from about age 7

Lavenderhoney Fri 03-Jan-14 21:05:59

I was always allowed a snowball or babycham along with my dm on Christmas Day. The bottle with the baby deer on itsmile

Df used to pour it into a proper glass with an umbrella and a sparkler.

We just don't make a big thing of it, its just a drink for grown ups and when they see a drunken uncle at family parties, we are honest about why and why he can't/ won't stop drinking. Unless alcohol is banned its going to be in their lives at some point.

JassyRadlett Fri 03-Jan-14 21:34:32

I was about to say that the watered down wine in childhood gave me a taste for decent wines etc but then remember my parents and their friends giving me Lambrusco as a teenager. grin

Heartbrokenmum73 Fri 03-Jan-14 21:59:12

I'm not sure I agree with this 'introduce them to alcohol slowly so they get used to it' stuff.

I was never given alcohol as a child, never wanted any. I'm the oldest of 4 siblings. We all have very little interest in alcohol as adults, so I don't see how not giving us alcohol would have any bearing on us binge drinking. None of us did that as teens either.

I've been drunk about 5 times as an adult and the last time was about 15 years ago. I have a bottle of wine in my fridge now that was given to me as a housewarming present 4 months ago. I've had one glass and didn't really enjoy it.

My own dc (well, the older two) have had sips of wine/lager/Guinness at various times, to see what it was like, and declared them all horrible. Other than that they aren't interested. Youngest is 5 and the thought of giving him a glass (whatever size) of any kind of alcohol, regardless of occasion just seems weird - he's a child, he's happy with squash, alcohol is for adults - he doesn't need or want it.

Maybe this will change as they get older, but I don't feel the need to acclimatize (for want of a better word) them to alcohol and I honestly don't understand that attitude - it seems really alien to me.

BUT. If other people want to give their children the occasional snifter of something, fair do's. As long as they're not falling down pissed, meh.

MakingEveryDayCount Fri 03-Jan-14 22:06:57

Why the f* would anyone give their children a glass of Bailey's at the age of 8?! That's absolutely insane, sorry.
There's absolutely no need to be giving small children like that a measure of ANY type of liqeur, and at that age will have immature livers which do not need alcohol thrown at them. hmm
If that's what the OP originally started the thread from, then no OP, YADNBU.
A small alcoholic drink occasionally as a young teen to demystify alcohol, yes, then fair enough.
8 years old and your own shot of Baileys, an emphatic NO!

LtEveDallas Fri 03-Jan-14 22:14:41

Because she asked for it, it's not illegal and I didn't mind her having it Makingeerydaycount.

SPsWantsCliffInHerStocking Fri 03-Jan-14 22:17:23

Lt next time just let her swig it from the bottle grin

LtEveDallas Fri 03-Jan-14 22:19:20

Nah, greedy bugger wouldn't leave any for me SP grin

maparole Fri 03-Jan-14 22:28:48

Heartbroken: I don't think it's "getting used to it" as such; IMO it's more a matter of appearing relaxed on the matter and NOT creating a "forbidden fruit" which will then become more attractive.

My parents gave me tasters if I asked and I take the same approach with my ds. As with any other unwanted behaviour, I feel the best approach is to minimise the shock value grin

PoctorDepper Fri 03-Jan-14 22:33:57

I think I can kind of see this from both sides. My cousins and I used to sneak beers off the tables at our parents house party's. We were just being cheeky little sods. One of my cousins though did always go a bit over the top about things and, I'm not saying this is a direct cause or anything, he does have quite a big problem with alcohol now. I'm inclined to think that's more of a learned behaviour though because his dad (my uncle) has always drank heavily on a regular basis.

On the other hand, my parents always treated alcohol as a "in moderation" thing to have and didn't often drink unless it was a special occasion such as parties or holidays. In fact when I was around 8 we went to Devon on holiday and my parents developed a bit of a thing for the Scrumpy Jack cider down there. They let all us try it (kids ages ranged from 4-14) within reason. A couple of years later we went again and I got very tipsy on the old Scrumpy and had to be put to bed early. I then woke up in the middle of the night singing about needing a wee and carried on singing all the way to the bathroom. My parents had a relatively relaxed attitude about us trying these things out under their supervision (obviously within reason) and out of 7 children, they have raised none with alcohol issues.

Heartbrokenmum73 Fri 03-Jan-14 22:34:49

But we don't take the same approach to smoking, do we? Or sex? That's what I don't understand. We can educate through talking about things without having to physically introduce them.

I talk to my DD about whatever she wants to talk about, when she wants to talk about, especially as she's now 12 and hitting puberty. I'll be exactly the same with my DS's when they want to talk - and DS1 already talks to me 'secretly' about girls at school.

We've discussed smoking and how bad it is for the body (their Grandad died of lung cancer and my Dad had a cancer scare related to smoking last year, so we've had open doors for all this), and some sex talk from DD.

But I don't see anyone saying 'well, I let them have little drag on my cigarette, it shows I'm relaxed about it, everyone else was having a cigar because it was Christmas, and DD/DS wanted to try a little too'.

And I know that's a daft example, but to me, the alcohol thing is the same. I can have a perfectly rational, calm, relaxed discussion with my dc about alcohol, alcoholism, binge drinking etc, without having to introduce any amounts of alcohol into it.

SPsWantsCliffInHerStocking Fri 03-Jan-14 22:37:33

My nanna caught my aunt smoking and made her smoke 20. She thought she would be sick and put off after 5. Aunt smoked the lot!

grin

That was in 70's I think.

iloveny001 Fri 03-Jan-14 22:40:37

Ii

springlamb Fri 03-Jan-14 22:41:22

I never refused to allow the DC to taste wine or beer when the subject arose. (Not overly often as we are quite light drinkers and vodka was reserved for date nights when we bothered to have them in the good old days...but I digress).
It was always followed by horrid face pulling (no, not the date nights).
Now Ds is 19 and doesn't touch alcohol, he doesn't like the taste.
Did is 12 and just thinks its yuck, would rather have a large ice cold milk.

squoosh Fri 03-Jan-14 22:41:26

I don't think smoking and alcohol are the same at all really. Smoking only has adverse effects, alcohol doesn't. Alcohol is part of a healthy lifestyle for many people.

rabbitlady Fri 03-Jan-14 22:46:40

i remember having a small sherry when the family drank alcohol at christmas, when i was a very small child. as a teenager (from just after my thirteenth birthday) i was allowed, encouraged even, to experiment with alcohol when with the family, trying new things until i found something i liked. when i hit upon brandy, i was allowed to drink it regularly but not enough to get drunk. consequently when i started going out with friends, i knew what i wanted to drink and how much i could take, and didn't get drunk.

Heartbrokenmum73 Fri 03-Jan-14 22:47:54

I did say it was a daft example. But to me it's a bit like the parents who buy their dc cigarettes, or share their own, because 'they'll only do it anyway'. Or the ones who allow their underage teens to have sex in the house because 'I'd rather they did it here, than behind a pub somewhere'.

Where do we draw the line at 'no, this is for adults'. What's wrong with just talking about things?

As I've said, each to their own, it doesn't harm (so far as I know), but I don't agree with the reasons for giving children alcohol, when really there actually aren't any. It just seems odd that alcohol is given behind this 'oh, it's legal, they wanted some, we're trying to stop binge drinking'. I think it's a weak argument.

Pixel Fri 03-Jan-14 22:53:59

Well I won't mind if when adult dd has the odd drink now and then, but I'm hoping she won't smoke ever, so the two are not compatible.

PoctorDepper Fri 03-Jan-14 22:56:03

For the record, I was one of those teens necking cheap beer or cider down the park or in the woods but if there was any glamour to it, it wore off back then and by the time I was old enough for clubbing the whole "go out and get trashed" was really not my thing. Now at the grand old age of 27 I don't particularly drink much at all.

My family has taken the same relaxed approach to alcohol with the next generation of DC and for the most part they've all declared it disgusting. Pretty sure that's because I gave my 10 yr old nephew whiskey, which he said "tastes like what petrol smells like!" grin

Heartbrokenmum73 Fri 03-Jan-14 23:04:34

Yeah, I'm making a hash of it with the smoking comparison, so I'll leave off that.

I'm just saying that I don't understand people saying 'it gets them used to the taste/strength for when they're older, discourages binge drinking' when I don't think there's actually a case for that argument.

And I think the only reason people are so blase about it is because it's legal, so therefore it's 'ok'. It's still giving young children alcohol while their livers are still developing and I just don't understand why anyone would 'want' to do that.

If any of my dc asked for a glass of alcohol now (and they are 12, 8 and 5) I'd just say 'no, it's not for children' and they'd be fine with that. I'd be surprised if they asked in the first place tbh.

But then, I don't get the whole 'Christmas/birthday/celebration = alcohol' either, so I think I might be a tad unusual grin

2Tinsellytocare Fri 03-Jan-14 23:13:24

Some people will have addictive personalities and some will not, there is no way of knowing which

JungleHumps Fri 03-Jan-14 23:30:55

I'd say it didn't do me any harm, but here I am half cut and arguing with strangers on the internet. (Or I would be if she hadn't flounced...)

MadAsFish Fri 03-Jan-14 23:36:53

The drinking culture is so, so different between the countries.

ChippingInLovesChristmasLights Fri 03-Jan-14 23:41:03

I think the OP meant 'Namechange' when she said 'leave' fgrin

I smile when it's new year & I like to make every day count. Just sayin'

ChippingInLovesChristmasLights Fri 03-Jan-14 23:42:34

LtEve you reprobate. I definitely count you as one of the 'regulars'.

YouTheCat Fri 03-Jan-14 23:42:47

The thing is moderate drinking is not bad for you. Moderate smoking is. It's not because drinking is legal and smoking is not at all.

You wouldn't encourage a child to smoke because there are no health benefits. It's only going to make you sick eventually.

Encouraging a healthy, non-binging attitude towards drink is a good thing.

All the friends I knew who went mad with drinking at 15 were never allowed any at home, in a controlled environment.

Springreturns Fri 03-Jan-14 23:46:51

The difference is that nicotine is much more highly addictive than alcohol. You can become addicted to nicotine very very easily. Also moderate or low nicotine use is still harmful to your health in a way that moderate alcohol use is not.
Similarly any exposure to sexual intimacy would be very harmful to a child.

A glass of orange juice probably has the same alcohol content as a sip of wine but we aren't concerned about that being a danger.

YouTheCat Fri 03-Jan-14 23:59:28

There's booze in orange juice? hmm I have none. What about cranberry? grin

WestieMamma Sat 04-Jan-14 00:04:14

I must admit I do worry about the kids getting communion wine at our church. I suspect the priest makes it himself and that it may lead to blindness or something. It doesn't taste like any wine I've ever come across before, more like pure alcohol. He doesn't even let you sip it, he dips the wafer in the tiniest amount and it's enough to make my head spin. I reckon it would be good for getting old paint off.

Springreturns Sat 04-Jan-14 00:12:48

Yep. Around 0.1% by volume but can be a bit higher due to natural fermentation depending on how old the oranges were when squeezed.
Don't know about cranberry grin
Anyway I figure a whole glass of orange juice could easily be the equivalent of a sip of something much stronger.

BIWI Sat 04-Jan-14 00:13:01

WTAF?! Orange juice does not contain any alcohol! How stupid is that?

Springreturns Sat 04-Jan-14 00:15:19

I think they warn people in countries with very strict no alcohol when driving laws that theoretically large amounts of orange juice might show up on breath tests. I fear it would be a hopeless way to get sozzled though.

Springreturns Sat 04-Jan-14 00:21:10

fshs8813.wpengine.com/proceedings-o/1971-vol-84/217-222%20(DAVIS).pdf

It's not a very interesting read I'm afraid.

YouTheCat Sat 04-Jan-14 00:22:52

Westie, I'm not religious by any stretch of the imagination but am wondering where your church is and could I come round for seconds? grin

C3P0 Sat 04-Jan-14 01:00:15

The research I've read suggests that the earlier children come into contact with alcohol, the more likely they are to have drink problems later. However, this is confounded by the fact that kids are more likely to be introduced to alcohol young if they come from a household of drinkers, which may actually be much more important a factor, for both genetic and cultural reasons.
My family had a very prohibitive culture with alcohol, and it led to a lot of problems later. It made us think that alcohol was a Big Deal, so we sought it out at every opportunity.
My advice is pretty simple. Don't encourage it, but don't fight over it either.

YouTheCat Sat 04-Jan-14 01:03:46

C3P0, my family weren't drinkers, the occasional sherry/whisky at Christmas kind of thing. Very rarely there would be wine with dinner. The first time I saw my mam slightly tipsy she was 58. But I had the occasional drink as a child.

I like a drink now but not to excess.

WestieMamma Sat 04-Jan-14 01:05:54

It's a Catholic church in Sweden although I suspect the 'wine' is more to do with the priest being Polish. Book your next holiday to Warsaw and I'll post you some rosary beads.

YouTheCat Sat 04-Jan-14 01:06:41

Good show, Westie wink grin

WestieMamma Sat 04-Jan-14 01:11:45

I've just remembered something. My brothers and their mates go to Poland for football matches. They bring back bottles of alcohol distilled from wood, or something weird like that, and then dare each other to drink it. None of them will touch it unless they're really drunk already. I wonder if that's what's being served up at church hmm

YouTheCat Sat 04-Jan-14 01:14:16

My dbro works with a lot of Polish lads. If there is anything distilled from wood and Polish and likely to be lethal, he will have tried it. grin

WestieMamma Sat 04-Jan-14 01:24:36

grin

bragmatic Sat 04-Jan-14 05:18:31

I think it's a good comparison Heartbokenmum and I was just going to post the same thing!

sashh Sat 04-Jan-14 05:40:36

OP

Some people give children younger than 5 alcohol as part of a ritual initiation.

Or what most people call a christening or a bris.

liquidstate Sat 04-Jan-14 08:21:12

We used to give my little brother baileys at the age of 6. It was mixed with a lot of milk. He also had wine spritzers.

He is 25 now and rarely drinks.

Caboodle Sat 04-Jan-14 09:35:23

Why would anyone give alcohol to a child? Even a small amount; I just don't see the point. Introducing teens to it to encourage sensible drinking I do understand, although the best way to encourage sensible drinking in teens is to be a sensible drinker as an adult.

ComposHat Sat 04-Jan-14 09:39:23

Now I have images of seven year olds in evening dress swishing a fine Cognac around an oversized balloons.

IfNotNowThenWhen Sat 04-Jan-14 10:04:58

I don't think alcohol is going to necessarily be a Big Deal to older kids if they are not given it as young children.
In my house, as far as ds is concerned, alcohol doesn't really feature. He has never seen anyone get drunk, or even drink very often. I once let him have a taste of my wine at a family party (because he asked). He thought it was horrible, so fine.
I would never mix alcohol with pop, or disguise it in any way though.
I was allowed wine as a child, and once got plastered age 11 at my friends Nan's on bacardi and coke, and actually I would say I developed a taste for booze really early on, and was out drinking at 13/14.
I think if you live in a house where booze is around a lot, and people seem to be getting merry and having a blast on it, it seems much more attractive to kids, and if they are allowed to partake with something alcoholic that tastes like pop (e.g bacardi and coke) they will think "brilliant! can't wait til I can start drinking for real!".
Or, they will if they are me!
And, to compare us to the French is just daft. We are not French. We have Northern European culture(and genes some of us) that make us FAR more likely to abuse alcohol.

DownstairsMixUp Sat 04-Jan-14 10:32:04

I agree with if about who you live with. My DP had alcoholic parents so it's fair to say they were quite relaxed about the kids drinking, they allowed the kids from age 13 to drink spirits/beers etc and would go to the shop and get it for them! Just for a quiet life really i suppose. DP has a high tolerance for alcohol now, he can drink tons without getting piddled, same as his sister and he has a real taste for pretty much anything with alcohol!

I think setting a limit is fine though. I wasn't allowed anything till 12 and then sometimes my Dad might treat me to a can of that shandy stuff in a can (shandy bass?), I could have small glasses of wine at special occasions or a barcardi breezer on holiday. Starting off like that really didn't do me any harm, I do like a drink many years on but know my limits and it doesn't take much to get me drunk! I think I'll follow my Dad's way with my own children to as it seems to have had good effects on me and my brother and our attitudes to drinking.

Andanotherthing123 Sat 04-Jan-14 10:35:34

I sort of think alcoholism comes with a predisposition for it. I come from three generations of alcoholics, was given special occasion drinks as a child and there is a pic of me drinking the ends of my Dads cans of beer sat on our back door step at 4 yrs (the sun used to make them taste sugary as I recall).

when I started to go bad ways with my drinking my mum used to talk to me about it as she was worried about me. I, like my Dad, am now a non drinker and have been for 8 years. I will be watching my kids for signs and will try to support them if they do start misusing alcohol.

I won't be offering them tastes of alcohol like I was, but equally I don't think if I did it would really influence how they drink as adults.

DumSpiroSperHoHoHo Sat 04-Jan-14 10:47:54

I'm inclined to agree with And that the tendency to drink/drink too much is inherent in some people regardless of their early experiences.

Apart from the aforementioned Christmas snowballs, my mum never drank alcohol and has been completely teetotal for most of my adult life. My dad used to have a can of bitter on a Saturday night and that was it, although he was a bigger drinker when he was young and single, I've probably only seen him 'merry' on a handful of occasions.

I drink regularly, not to excess, but I do like a glass of wine with dinner or a vodka & tonic after a crappy day at work.

On the flipside my mum was a smoker from the age of 21 until her mid sixties. I have never smoked, it just doesn't appeal to me at all, so I definitely think these things are more nature than nurture.

Heartbroken, I don't think anyone said the point was to "get them used to the taste/strength for when they're older". The bit about it possibly helping by removing the 'forbidden fruit' aspect was an afterthought.

Heartbroken & MakingEveryDayCount. How do you feel about the christian church which gives wine to small children?

tolittletoolate Sat 04-Jan-14 13:14:56

my 10 yr old dd has had a very small snowball every Christmas for the last 2 years

Heartbrokenmum73 Sat 04-Jan-14 13:16:15

I was always under the impression that they didn't actually give small children any wine, but maybe it varies from church to church. My ex is a Catholic and at services I've been to with him children weren't given any wine. I'm an atheist so have only been to church on a few occasions, so don't know the ins and outs of it, tbh.

And I seriously hope that whoever said upthread about the OP name-changing wasn't implying that I'm the OP!!!

I've got plenty of posts and threads under this name and can easily be looked up.

MrsDeanAmbrose Sat 04-Jan-14 14:27:02

I was raised in a family of drinkers, regularly had a can of Skol or cheap Co op lager from the age of 11, and it proper gave me a taste for booze and I still like a drink or 7 now (it was me that introduced my mother to Vodka, she was always a gin drinker prior to that).
I also remember going on a school trip to France aged 11 (early 90s) and we were all given a glass of red wine with our evening meal. I'm guessing nowadays that might not be the done thing fwink

Heartbrokenmum, I'm atheist too so I don't know if every church does. It probably depends how traditional they are. but since it is part of the religion even the ones who use grape juice must accept that it's ok to use real wine. So the real point is that there are vast numbers of people who think a small amount of alcohol is fine.

Personally I'd just as soon no one used alcohol, but I'm in a minority on that and giving tiny amounts to children on special occasions is not going to harm them.

MakingEveryDayCount Sat 04-Jan-14 18:23:43

Because she asked for it, it's not illegal and I didn't mind her having it Makingeerydaycount.

So just because she asked for it she should automatically get it, regardless of whether it's harmful to her or not? What if she wanted a drag of your cigarette as well, or fancied trying drugs?
Would that be OK as she 'wanted it?'
No, it's not illegal, but a glass of Bailey's at that age is ridiculous. It's not even a sip of something low alcohol like Bucks Fizz (not that that would be any more acceptable) it's a full on measure of a liqueur which is about 20% abv!
Miles higher than even the strongest of wines, sherries and ports.
Sticking a load of ice in it is neither here or there. hmm

My DB and I were brought up being allowed little bits of alcohol here and there. He is a raving alcoholic and I am not. We allow our DC sips and watered down wine occasionally. I may knock this on the head though. DHs eldest would constantly ask for sips whenever we had a drink, it got to the point where we couldn't enjoy a glass of wine as adults without her having some of it. I would say no, and he would say yes and let her. Now as an early teen she has been sneaking in her DM drink cabinet before school and took some to school and proceeded to get drunk!

For sure, your kids, your rules, but you just don't know how it will affect your DC until they are older and it is too late!

LtEveDallas Sat 04-Jan-14 19:27:21

Don't be ridiculous MakingEveryDayCount (and haven't I explained this to you once already - why labour the point? Ooh, you are like the woman on the other thread who just.wouldnt.listen. grin)

No, I wouldn't give my 8 year old a cigarette or drugs. That would be illegal and I don't break the law.

What's with the straw man arguement? Don't you have a real one of your own?

It wasn't a 'full on measure' (I don't have optics, I was at MILs, not a pub). It was a small amount, diluted with ice. Drunk in a family setting, over the space of about an hour and after a very large 3 course meal.

It will NOT have caused her any harm. If you think it will have, then as I said before, I am quite happy for you to PM me, I will provide you with my full name and address and you can report me to whatever authorities you think suitable.

BTW, Do you understand what %ABV means? (In the context of a glass Vs bottle Vs a measure)

Rufustherednosedreindeer Sat 04-Jan-14 19:30:42

lteve would you like me to find you a wall to beat your head against?

It's a bit like Groundhog Day

HombreLobo Sat 04-Jan-14 19:48:28

It's funny how many people don't truly comprehend the by volume bit of ABV

A small measure of Baileys will contain less alcohol than a small glass of babycham.

VoteYes Sat 04-Jan-14 20:11:37

Pretty shocked by how many deem this to be acceptable.

An 8 year old getting a glass of alcohol (regardless of size) is shocking. A sip to try fair enough but this I find quite repulsive.

LtEveDallas Sat 04-Jan-14 20:20:21

Why?

This thread could win the "most rubbish sockpuppeting of 2014 award".

happytalk13 Sat 04-Jan-14 20:23:24

Hombre - I was trying to find out yesterday how large a bottle is Babycham is to make that point but could I find that information online? Nope!

VoteYes Sat 04-Jan-14 20:25:29

Why I find it repulsive?

Why would anyone find the need to give such a young child alcohol? Introduction to alcohol at an appropriate age is sensible but to an 8 year old? Absolutely not.

This is my opinion only and I seem to be in the minority which I will accept.

HombreLobo Sat 04-Jan-14 20:26:00
YouTheCat Sat 04-Jan-14 20:26:47

Hobnob, I was thinking the same. grin

smile

jacks365 Sat 04-Jan-14 20:28:00

Happytalk babycham are 200ml bottles.
Vote yes what do you deem to be a suitable age to introduce any alcohol both a sip or a small glass

Back2Two Sat 04-Jan-14 20:33:20

Sps you gave me a flashback to my days of drinking Taboo.
And was the other similar one called Mirage?
Pure class anyways. Especially for a six year old such as I was.
grin

LtEveDallas Sat 04-Jan-14 20:35:03

Why would anyone find the need to give such a young child alcohol?

Is there an echo in here? Because she asked for it, it's not illegal and I didn't mind her having it, VoteYes.

AllDirections Sat 04-Jan-14 20:36:13

Vote yes what do you deem to be a suitable age to introduce any alcohol both a sip or a small glass

14 and not a day before IMO grin

DownstairsMixUp Sat 04-Jan-14 20:39:02

I think 11/12 is ok for the odd sip, 13/14 for an odd glass of wine/beer whatever. I draw the line of whole bottle of spirits being brought up to children's bedrooms (take note MIL!!) grin

VoteYes Sat 04-Jan-14 20:39:50

jacks365 I think that a sip is dependent on parents, I was allowed a sip (not a small glass, one sip) of wine/guiness at a young age but it was something that tasted alcoholic, not a sweet drink that a child would enjoy, I find that in itself quite irresponsible.

An introduction to a responsible relationship with alcohol in my opinion is dependent on the individuals in question but I am more inclined to think that 12/13 for a small glass of alcohol diluted is more appropriate than 8 years old.

VoteYes Sat 04-Jan-14 20:47:20

Ok Lt it's clearly a matter of opinion which we disagree on.

jacks365 Sat 04-Jan-14 20:56:43

For those saying baileys is sweet and doesn't taste of alcohol I can tell you that my 16yo very much disagrees because she hates the alcohol aftertaste it has but she also didn't like the very nice presecco we had with our Christmas dinner, just means more for me.

I'm not saying I gave mine any very young I just don't have an issue with parents choosing for themselves and mine have been able to join in from about 11 if they chose to. Oddly enough they didn't want.

MakingEveryDayCount Sat 04-Jan-14 21:22:46

lteve would you like me to find you a wall to beat your head against?

It's a bit like Groundhog Day

No, people are allowed to disagree. Maybe they haven't seen the post where it points something out, and have somehow missed it. (It is 13 pages long at typing this so easily done.)
Just because it's Groundhog Day to YOU doesn't mean it is to everyone else.
More than one person is allowed to think it's a disgusting thing to do.
Children do NOT need measures of Baileys. Just because it's so called legal, doesn''t mean it's right.
At the age of 8, the liver is immature and does not need alcohol clogging it up just because they "asked for it." hmm
this coming from someone who as an adult loves a drink or two or three or four grin

MakingEveryDayCount Sat 04-Jan-14 21:25:04

Pretty shocked by how many deem this to be acceptable.

An 8 year old getting a glass of alcohol (regardless of size) is shocking. A sip to try fair enough but this I find quite repulsive.

Thank God, a voice of sanity on the thread! sad

MakingEveryDayCount Sat 04-Jan-14 21:25:29

Oops emoticon fail that was supposed to be a grin lol

VoteYes Sat 04-Jan-14 21:27:39

MakingEveryDayCount

Glad I'm not alone in thinking this.

Rufustherednosedreindeer Sat 04-Jan-14 21:30:36

Thanks for explaining that making

It was not a reference to anyone disagreeing, for what it's worth the first alcohol to pass my child's lips was 14 days before his 15th birthday and it was a snowball. I personally wouldn't give a child a drink of pure beer, wine, baileys, or spirits

My comments were regarding the fact that lteve has said why she gave her child baileys quite a few times now, and I honestly thought that mumsnet etiquette meant that it was good form to read the thread

InPursuitOfOblivion Sat 04-Jan-14 21:31:15

YAWN!!!! Nobody is getting toddlers plastered every weekend are they?
Just an inflammatory post for a Saturday night.

Rufustherednosedreindeer Sat 04-Jan-14 21:33:01

Sorry my reply sounds really apologetic....it wasn't meant to

If you can find anywhere where I have said that she is right and everyone else is wrong or that I think that no one should disagree do let me know

LedareAnsley Sat 04-Jan-14 21:36:39

hobnobsaremyfave Sat 04-Jan-14 20:22:45
This thread could win the "most rubbish sockpuppeting of 2014 award".

Easily.

Even with 361 days to go grin

LtEveDallas Sat 04-Jan-14 21:43:37

I didn't say anything about 'Groundhog Day' MakeEveryDayCount. I just didn't understand why you needed to labour the point when you already had seen the measure of the thread, and my previous posts.

Could you answer my question about %ABV please. It may help me to understand your thinking.

Do you have a link giving evidence towards the damage you claim my daughter will have suffered?

I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, none at all. But I would like to know why those people think it is 'disgusting' and 'repulsive' rather than simply something they would not do. What makes it 'disgusting' and 'repulsive' and all the other emotive phrases used?Why would you 'question my sanity' which is pretty poor form. Especially when 'ooh, I would have waited until XX age' would have done the job.

I think (less my rather emotive second post) I have been quite polite and measured when faced with a thread that is actually against talk guidelines (TAATs are usually deleted, and threads directed disparagingly at other MNers are just not cricket). So I have no issue with being disagreed with (or would have reported the thread, as is my right), but haven't actually learned one single thing that may have changed my position or given me food for thought for next Xmas Day.

I have a 6 yr old and I certainly would not offer her her own glass of alcohol at all. A taste is different.
I have to say though that I have very 'straitlaced' views on drinking. I think that in this country most adults drink to excess and don't realise or admit as much. I think as a nation we are utterly screwed up when it come to drinking and in denial about the metal and physical health problems it causes. So you can understand I won't be 'normalising' drinking as part of social occasions for children.

Rufustherednosedreindeer Sat 04-Jan-14 21:50:49

lteve

making aimed that post at me not you

VoteYes Sat 04-Jan-14 21:58:21

Lt Alcohol is a drug it may be legal but it is still a drug.

Why anyone would give this to a young child who is still developing is truly beyond me. It is normalizing alcohol to a very impressionable child. Just because something is legal doesn't make it less dangerous that something that isn't.

There is no physical need for a child to indulge in even one glass of alcohol. You have every right to your opinion. So does everyone else on this post.

elfycat Sat 04-Jan-14 22:01:23

Is this a good time to say that I was just thinking at Xmas that DD1 will be 5 this year so next Xmas I may give her a very wee glass of something.

But sod that, after all the judgy pants on here I'll give her a can of strongbow as a birthday gift joking about the cider in case anyone has any room left in their arse crack for a tighter pull

As children we were allowed a glass egg cup of very weak sparkling cider with dinner on a Sunday from quite a young age and none of us have turned into raging alcoholics. As a student I would have one or two and help my fellow students nurses home and, quite often, into the recovery position. These were the ones who had never been allowed to drink at home and when let loose went for it.

My child, my choice.

LtEveDallas Sat 04-Jan-14 22:10:03

VoteYes. As is caffeine, and I see many young children drinking coke. Do you have the same aversion/reaction when you see that?

What about aspartame?

Alcohol is normal. There is no getting away from it. DD knows that some adults drink alcohol. She knows that I don't drink alcohol at home, but will drink Vodka if I go out. She knows I rarely go out.

She knows that Baileys is my 'Christmas' drink, and knows that MIL buys me a bottle every Christmas, that I then share after our dinner.

Had she have got drunk, had she been swigging back the bottle or had I been doing this every weekend with her then yes, I agree that it would have been dangerous. But it wasn't like that, it's a one off, one time a year, so I don't see the danger.

And again... I've never said that no-one else was allowed an opinion.

VoteYes Sat 04-Jan-14 22:17:10

Actually I don't and wont give my DD coke either. I have never drank it and won't give it to her, what she chooses to do in future is her own decision.

I think the difference between the drugs you mention and alcohol is that alcohol can much more easily change someone's entire personality in fewer quantities therefore making it more dangerous.

Having a child aware it is a normal thing for adults to do is great. But in my opinion making it normal for her to be aloud alcohol at a special occasion is not.

I don't think seeing eye to eye is possible so I'm going to bow out now. off for a Bailey's I think

Pixel Sat 04-Jan-14 22:32:57

Much less shock horror at children having minute amounts of alcohol when I was small, in fact it was often medicinal. I remember having whisky rubbed on my gum for a toothache (worked too) and gripe water used to have alcohol in it until a few years ago. When I see the absolute rubbish some kids live on every day of their lives I'm not going to get upset about a little sip of baileys at Christmas. I'd be more worried if my dcs saw a Happy Meal as a 'treat' tbh.

YouTheCat Sat 04-Jan-14 22:36:07

Chemical sweeteners can vastly change a child's personality.

StickEmUpBigStyle Sat 04-Jan-14 22:36:14

I wasn't allowed any alcohol when I was younger, until about 17 when dad would buy me a bottle of beer at a weekend.

I wasn't allowed down the park at weekends, when my mates were all drinking cider.

I am an alcoholic, in recovery now, and all my cider down the park friends are all normal drinkers.

Whether to 'break your kids in' or not, if they are going to be alcoholics they will be.

KenAdams Sat 04-Jan-14 22:56:58

Why do they get it because they want it? I don't understand why you wouldn't just say no. My parents would get us something special to drink at midnight or whatever that was non alcoholic.

I also don't see why they need to have alcohol on special occasions. Isn't that just setting them up to associate alcohol with occasions?

Sparklymommy Sun 05-Jan-14 08:02:34

There are some very uptight people on this thread. I am actually shocked at the amount of people that agree with the op. but perhaps I am odd!

rabbitlady Sun 05-Jan-14 08:08:44

not at all. drinking alcohol is part of the culture i grew up in and having a drink with friends is a social ritual. alcohol isn't something magic that becomes part of life at the age of eighteen. bringing up children to know what it is and how/how not to use it is part of preparing them for adult life. parents would be irresponsible if they chose not to do that.

cider drinking in the park isn't normal or acceptable - partly because of the amounts consumed but mainly because children should already know not to hang around in playgrounds. that's just like the groups of teenagers hanging around outside asda every night - evidence the two girls sitting by the shopping trolleys last night. sad waste of life. they'd be better off in a restaurant, with their parents, having a glass of wine with their meal.

ShirtySocks Sun 05-Jan-14 08:32:07

Can I ask a sensible question here?

Neither DH or I drink alcohol. I used to but don't enjoy it enough to bother with the hangovers (was only a social drinker, actually don't like the taste of alcohol at all) and dh has never drunk.

So going on the basis of this thread - are our dc now going to be rabid binge-drinkers or alcoholics because they aren't being introduced to drink.

We never say drink is bad and they know I used to drink and they do no what being drunk means (and some of the consequences). They see other people drinking around them (friends and family) - I asked my DS if he wanted a sip of his uncle's beer the other day when we were there and he said no. We do not demonise or disapprove of alcohol. So what now. Should we have booze in the house so they can try it when they are a bit older?!

GlitzAndGiggles Sun 05-Jan-14 08:53:05

I was given a small glass of bucks fizz on christmas day with my lunch at that age. I would've loved a baileys though :P

Sparklymommy Sun 05-Jan-14 09:09:52

shirtysocks if you are not demonising it and your children are aware of alcohol but not fussed by it then I don't really think you will have a problem.

In an earlier post I mentioned a lady whose mum refused to have alcohol in the house and who is now an alcoholic. I truly believe this is because she was forever being told of the 'evils' of drink and so therefore it was a forbidden fruit. Ad she had a very contrary attitude in her teenage years!

It's interesting, but as a child, at parties and the like, I always remember my father ordering coffee and not drinking alcohol. Possibly this was because he was a professional lorry driver at the time. That stands out for me more than those people over-indulging in the dreaded alcohol. Or perhaps I never saw anyone drunk when I was younger.

I was only ever properly drunk once. I've never been drunk since because it wasnt a nice sensation, I didn't like being ill, and I just don't think it's ladylike.

DownstairsMixUp Sun 05-Jan-14 09:40:30

Shirty no I don't think so, carry on doing what works for you that's what I say. Everyone has got their own parenting methods and as long as you are doing your best that's OK. Obviously I'm not saying let them go off to bed with a litre bottle of smirnoff/20 superkings but you get what I'm saying. I'm sure your doing fine! Your not the only parent to not have any alcohol (i had many friends that's parents didn't have the special occasion rule either) and they all turned out fine to! smile

The fact that there's no need to give a child alcohol is not a good argument. As someone pointed out there's no need to give them coke or even chocolate (which btw is also addictive).

What you have to show is that it is harmful to do so and that's not been done.

As I said earlier I am not a fan of alcohol at all. I'd be just as happy if it ceased to exist, but that's because of those who overdo it. It's not dangerous in small quantities.

For those saying they would choose not to that is fine. Those claiming it is a terrible thing to do and being nasty about it need to come back with some evidence.

The fact that it is legal doesn't automatically make something 'right' but it does show that the vast majority of people consider it perfectly ok. Those getting worked up about it might want to ask around because you will find you really are in a minority. Not because other people don't care, but because other people have thought it through.

rabbitlady Sun 05-Jan-14 12:22:35

shirty - if you don't drink, its not part of your culture. but if they show an interest, will you let them explore that safely at home or will you leave them to drink cider in the park?

DoubleLifeIsALifeOfSorts Sun 05-Jan-14 12:35:22

Wow long thread! I hope I'm sensible about alcohol and I hope I'll teach Ds to be so too, but who knows about how easily addicted he ll be as a character, I suspect that's a major factor.

AllDirections Sun 05-Jan-14 12:42:00

The fact that it is legal doesn't automatically make something 'right' but it does show that the vast majority of people consider it perfectly ok.
Like smacking hmm

Those getting worked up about it might want to ask around because you will find you really are in a minority. Not because other people don't care, but because other people have thought it through.
I have found that I'm in the minority in real life too but I'm still happy with my stance on this. To insinuate that parents who let their kids have alcohol have thought it through and the parents that don't let them haven't thought it through is very patronising.

Geckos48 Sun 05-Jan-14 12:48:52

I was called a 'child abuser' who should have the police called because I said I would give my 4yr and 7month DS a sip of alcohol for New Years.

People were 'literally shaking' at the thought of it!

AllDirections Yes like smacking. The careful taps that we decided are ok and which are legal despite those who would make it illegal to even go near their own child.

As for patronising have you seen what a small number of posters have been saying? Let's hear what you have to say about those calling it repulsive and insane. You will presumably be outraged at them.

2Tinsellytocare Sun 05-Jan-14 14:40:44

Did the 7month old like the taste??

2Tinsellytocare Sun 05-Jan-14 14:41:57

Ooops! I see now your DS is 4 and a half blush i did think 7 months was a bit young!

Geckos48 Sun 05-Jan-14 15:03:49

I wouldnt know how a 7month old would react to alcohol but I can tell you that my 1 year old adored the sip of his dads cider that he got before we ripped it out of his hands! Yes DH was told off for that one!

crunchyfrog Sun 05-Jan-14 15:08:27

We were given alcohol in small amounts as children. All 5 of us have very high tolerance and history of binging. But - on both sides, there are 3 generations of alcoholics. Both parents drank every day, DF a lot (couple of gins, lager then whiskey.)
I'm not an alcoholic, but I do have to keep an eye on it! I think it is nature rather than nurture - we all smoked as well, despite our parents hating it.
My kids are 10, 8 and 5, none have shown any interest yet. They're all after the diet coke I mix my drink.with though!
If any asked, I would let them have something, e.g a sherry or a shandy.

Geckos48 Sun 05-Jan-14 15:12:01

I think the alcoholic thing is more about growing up watching your parents drink a lot rather than having the odd sip of booze

MakingEveryDayCount Sun 05-Jan-14 15:38:13

I didn't say anything about 'Groundhog Day' MakeEveryDayCount.

No, I never said YOU did, , but somebody else did (sorry, can't find the post now!)
Said something like "do you want a wall to bang your head against, LtEve, as it's like Groundhog Day!"
I was merely pointing out that it's not Groundhog Day if it's a lot of people saying the same thing, they're entitled to their opinions and are not forced to have seen every single post as it's 15 pages long

Rufustherednosedreindeer Sun 05-Jan-14 16:07:35

making

It was me that said Groundhog Day to lteve referring only to the fact that she had said numerous time WHY she did what it did!!!

It had nothing to do with anyone disagreeing with her, just that they kept asking the same bloody question when she had already answered it many times

To repeat the ground hog day comment was fuckall to do with everyone disagreeing it was about her repeating herself....repeatedly!!!!!

Rufustherednosedreindeer Sun 05-Jan-14 16:10:57

And I replied to your post explaining that earlier

Joysmum Sun 05-Jan-14 16:14:25

I read the first page and skipped the rest.

My mum and dad made their own beer and wine and I was always allowed some. When I got to senior school, my mates saw alcohol as a way to show how grown up they were and to rebel. They got pissed up on cheap booze on street corners and the park and school discos. I thought they were pathetic! Alcohol had no mysteries and no draw got me.

My daughter is also allowed to drink if she wants to. On the continent kids drink too. I suspect the UK's binge drinking culture is due to prudes who see it as to be avoided at all costs rather than part of life to be enjoyed in moderation.

cory Sun 05-Jan-14 17:51:00

Heartbrokenmum73 Sat 04-Jan-14 13:16:15
"I was always under the impression that they didn't actually give small children any wine, but maybe it varies from church to church. My ex is a Catholic and at services I've been to with him children weren't given any wine. I'm an atheist so have only been to church on a few occasions, so don't know the ins and outs of it, tbh."

Traditional practice has been that in Catholic churches it is normally the celebrating priest who communicates with both bread and wine, while the congregation usually just gets the bread.

In Protestant churches the tendency has been for both priest and congregation to partake of both parts. And this would include any child who has been confirmed, so probably from age 11-13 in many churches (Catholic children tend to be confirmed younger). So the dividing line is not one by age as such but by denomination and whether you have been confirmed.

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