to feel embarrassed about the town I live in due to colleague's comments

(204 Posts)
tuggle Thu 02-Jan-14 16:39:34

I have name changed.

A new colleague who I find quite boastful mentioned she lives in Tunbridge Wells, Kent. I mentioned I lived in a town in North West Kent. She screwed up her face and said;

"When I think of this town I picture caravans. Isn't there a lot of social issues?"

I found myself justifying why we chose to live there rather than telling her where to go. I am no good at comebacks or confrontation.

I knew she was being rude. She is a snob and I admit has a very comfortable lifestyle.

Feminine Thu 02-Jan-14 16:41:01

Well she needs to keep a civil tongue!

So, she doesn't have it all, wink

ShatnersBassoon Thu 02-Jan-14 16:41:30

She's a twat. You need to screw up your face and tell her that next time she misbehaves.

BrownSauceSandwich Thu 02-Jan-14 16:42:47

She sounds like a complete dick. You're not the one who ought to be embarrassed.

SilverApples Thu 02-Jan-14 16:44:36

My colleague lived in a posh Saddleworth village, and she asked me where I lived.
'DERKER? All the muggers live in Derker' she squarked.
'Yes, but they mug the posh people in Delph, not their neighbours. So we're fine'

sunbathe Thu 02-Jan-14 16:44:44

She sounds like the original 'Disgusted, of Tunbridge Wells'! grin

SapphireMoon Thu 02-Jan-14 16:46:25

Charmless snob.
Be glad you are not her op....

Don't they have manners in Tunbridge Wells or is she a rogue citizen?

NameoftheRose Thu 02-Jan-14 16:48:30

Tunbridge Wells? Really? Oh dear.....wink

FreyaFridays Thu 02-Jan-14 16:49:55

Tbh, I would judge someone who chose to live in Tunbridge Wells...

rubyflipper Thu 02-Jan-14 16:50:00

You should introduce her as 'Disgusting of Tunbridge Wells' grin

tuggle Thu 02-Jan-14 16:50:49

I feel silly as it affected me. I admit that I live in an ok area in a not so nice town. We were priced out of London unless we were willing to buy a one bedroom flat.

Generally I am not quick to mention where I live as I expect negative comments. It seems only Bromley, Orpington, Sevenoaks and Tunbridge Wells are acceptable places to live in Kent sad

grovel Thu 02-Jan-14 16:51:23

Maidstone's not that bad is it?

Preciousbane Thu 02-Jan-14 16:53:28

My first thought was disgusted of Tunbridge Wells. I hate that kind of snobbery it makes me want to be extra common and start swigging special brew, swearing and living down to her expectations.

She is a silly cah

RedactedEdition Thu 02-Jan-14 16:55:03

She may live in a nice town but her comments indicate she is far from well-mannered. I would therefore ask whereabouts in T.Well she lives?
The town has some areas of serious social deprivation!!

TiggyOBE Thu 02-Jan-14 16:55:10

There must be somewhere in the country worse than Chatham.

How about Folkstone or Dover? They're both real dumps!

Joysmum Thu 02-Jan-14 16:55:11

The town I live in gets put down too.

All I can say is that I'd rather live here and have a better house for less money and a good standard of living plus be able to invest in Buy to Lets than to move to somewhere more expensive, not be able to invest in our future and not have the standard of living we do now.

I'd love to have it all, and we will have when we cash in all our investments and have I tiny mortgage on our dream property in years to come. In the meantime, I'm going to get pissed off with the attitude to my town but am thinking ahead to a mortgage free life in a great house (and hopefully land too) before I'm 50. Our time will come when our plans come to fruition.

Everywhere I've lived has had nice areas and not so nice areas, regardless of the towns overall reputation. For all we know, she could live on the roughest street in Tunbridge Wells!

She's a douche. Ignore! smile

mistermakersgloopyglue Thu 02-Jan-14 16:56:56

Oh god don't worry about it. I live in a fairly shitty town (well just outside actually wink ) with a terrible reputation, but it is surrounded by some really lovely towns and villages. I constantly hear people, including friends and colleagues, slagging off my town but I just let it go over my head, it's not that bad! I think you should do the same, don't let it bother you.

furlinedsheepskinjacket Thu 02-Jan-14 16:56:58

my home town is pretty grim so is the town I live in now.i have to laugh and crack a joke when I tell people what school I went to. smile

ProfondoRosso Thu 02-Jan-14 16:57:32

She was being an ass.

When I went on a course in London and mentioned I was from Glasgow, people raised eyebrows and asked if it was like Trainspotting.

I smiled and said, "no, that's Edinburgh." grin

ComposHat Thu 02-Jan-14 16:57:49

And Tonbridge Wells makes me think of prudish uptight snobs and six toed pony fuckers (c/o Glenn in the thick of it)

I remember when I lived in Leeds and my landlady had some particularly snooty relatives visiting. The husband would leap up every five minutes to check his precious Mercedes hadn't been vandalised by the local kids (who were busy minding their own business) unyil I piped up with 'don't worry the local drug dealer has gotbome just like yours, the kids won't touch it.'

To which he did a marvellous cat's bum face.

chanie44 Thu 02-Jan-14 17:02:12

Do you live in gravesend?

Ive never been but a colleague lives there as is always making those types of jokes herself.

I live in a not very nice area myself - well, I think it's okay, but you know what I mean. I take pride in the fact that I am just a regular parent just trying to do the best for my family. We bought where we could afford and that's all there is too it

natwebb79 Thu 02-Jan-14 17:06:10

I'm from Kent and I'm more likely to secretly judge a snooty cow from Tunbridge Wells than I am somebody in Chatham/Tovil/anywhere else with a negative reputation to be honest. Laugh in her face next time. grin

ComposHat Thu 02-Jan-14 17:09:09

Tunbridge Wells is in Kent isn't it?

You could point out to your snobby colleague: 'it's funny everyone who works here knows you live in Kent because i hear them whisper a word thst sounds very like Kent under their breath when you leave the room.'

BohemianGirl Thu 02-Jan-14 17:12:59

North West Kent - it can only be Erith, Welling, Thamesmead that are so awful or any of the Crays

Everything else is quite passable. I'm North West Kent - although lets face it, it's South London.

NearTheWindmill Thu 02-Jan-14 17:15:49

You should have asked her if she was going to retire to Margate grin.

Seriously if she really did say "Isn't there a lot of social issues" I'd just have riposted with "there are, you know there really are, there ARE a lot of social issues - but I'm trying to bring up the children to speak proper".

We live in a luffly place now and people often pick up on my DH's now very soft Yorkie accent and ask where he's from and I just say "Armley" and their little dahlink jaws drop. And I nod and smile, nod and smile.

SomethingkindaOod Thu 02-Jan-14 17:15:58

Try living just outside Rochdale... grin
As above, the town itself has an awful reputation but it's surrounded by some lovely villages. Some of the comments I get though have been really nasty.

nomorecrumbs Thu 02-Jan-14 17:18:03

She's being ridiculous.

I don't come from the most salubrious location myself so I anticipate any negative comments by making a joke out of it.

At least you're not boasting OP - noone's going to be impressed by someone's location, FFS. Bet she doesn't have much else to boast about if she takes this attitude!

snowed Thu 02-Jan-14 17:18:28

Don't be embarrassed OP, hold your head up high and remember her money doesn't seem to buy manners.

eggsandwich Thu 02-Jan-14 17:19:18

Ohh... she's going to fit in really well isn't she !!!!!!

ComposHat Thu 02-Jan-14 17:19:38

I lived in Armley for thtree years too. I love it. That's where my exchange with the Mercedes snob took place.

The church in Armley is incredible!

Goodadvice1980 Thu 02-Jan-14 17:21:01

Please people, remember it's ROYAL Tunbridge Wells!!

jeee Thu 02-Jan-14 17:21:08

Must be a Kent thing - I'm waiting to see my town mentioned. Actually when we moved from one seaside town (desirable postcode) to the next one down (less desirable postcode) we got loads of snooty comments. We just laugh. Our seafront is nicer, anyway.

nomorecrumbs Thu 02-Jan-14 17:21:25

The classiest people don't boast about what they have because they have nowt to prove grin

I remind myself of this when MIL is banging on about her new designer handbag/shoes/gilet/stationery hmm

BohemianGirl Thu 02-Jan-14 17:22:52

I live in a ghastly town. I don't tell people I live there. I move one post code up.

NearTheWindmill Thu 02-Jan-14 17:23:18

Ooh, were you near Gott's Park Compos? Do you mean St. Barts? You must have known PIL if you do. That might be why you once called me a good Tory shock!

CustardoPaidforIDSsYFronts Thu 02-Jan-14 17:23:32

psmsl @ Derker

I always referd to myself as Hollinwood crimeside

NearTheWindmill Thu 02-Jan-14 17:24:15

MIL refers to living in "Upper Armley" ROFL - PIL came out of the back to backs grin.

NearTheWindmill Thu 02-Jan-14 17:24:30

Not PIL, FIL ......

Loopylouu Thu 02-Jan-14 17:25:19

I used to live in Slough grin

I've heard it all.

snowtunesgirl Thu 02-Jan-14 17:35:11

I live in the Borough of Lewisham which has a bad rep but I love it!

katrina81 Thu 02-Jan-14 17:35:29

Well I'm from Gravesend, then moved to Margate now living ooop north, well scummy me lol

ComposHat Thu 02-Jan-14 17:37:30

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Doyouthinktheysaurus Thu 02-Jan-14 17:37:34

She's rude!

I live in a less salubrious bit between Worthing and Shoreham on the south coast and always feel slightly embarrassed saying where I live.

It has improved since we moved here as more and more people are priced out of Brighton but still, it's not somewhere people really aspire to move togrin

It is daft, because I'm perfectly happy here, I just avoid telling people.

Take no notice op, she's the one with the problem, not you.

Topseyt Thu 02-Jan-14 17:55:20

I live in north west Essex, and people do speak in a similar way about living in Essex, as if the whole place is based on TOWIE and the like.

It is in fact a very diverse county, a lot of it rural, and has a lot of history. It extends far beyond the East London part.

I hate this sort of snobbery about where people live. It is so judgmental.

Do you live on the isle of Sheppey op?

Ignore her, no town is perfect, and if you are happy then take no notice of the horrible snob.

pluCaChange Thu 02-Jan-14 18:13:08

I live in one of the "acceptable" places mentioned, and it's sooo uninteresting that people went off to join the summer riots elsewhere. confused

Bunbaker Thu 02-Jan-14 18:14:23

I live near a town that has a lot of deprivation and one of the worst educational records in the country. I'm not ashamed.

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO Thu 02-Jan-14 18:19:42

My town is a dump, I know it is, and I do not pretend its anything its not, it is what it is.

Solo Thu 02-Jan-14 18:22:08

I'd rather live in Erith or Welling in Kent than Lewisham or New Cross in London (born in Lewisham, lived in Lee Green and Greenwich and worked in those places for many years.) BohemianGirl. Wouldn't live in Thamesmead out of choice though.

Don't be embarrassed- it's still a better place to admit to that where I live....(checks there's no one around.... whispers) ...... Essex and not the nice green bit with the trees that is almost Hertfordshire.... the London Borough bit with Dagenham nearby.

I think everywhere in Kent is posh so at least you have impressed me grin

BlingBang Thu 02-Jan-14 18:30:48

I live in a town that famously gets quite a bit of stick, especially as it's surrounded by vairy posh cities, market towns and quaint villages - fuck it, I like it and will defend it robustly!

TheFarSide Thu 02-Jan-14 18:31:41

I live in a part of East London which has a bit of a reputation but a wonderful community feel - whenever someone comments negatively about my area I just feel relieved that they aren't living here.

Sadly, my area is becoming more desirable - people who can no longer afford to live in the surrounding posh areas are moving in. They are bringing are bit of naiceness to the area, but I'm worried that they might take over with their baby yoga, independent shops, gourmet pubs and the like.

I might have been tempted to say to your colleague "I really like where I live, it's not full of snobs like some places."

JakeBullet Thu 02-Jan-14 18:39:13

Tell her you know Jakebullet who lives in <whispers> Basildon (and not the quaintly named village in Berkshire) so you know you are posh in comparison.

Seriously, what an idiot she sounds,

Wevet Thu 02-Jan-14 18:43:45

I once spent a couple of hours in Tunbridge Wells, and thought the main street was unbearably twee and full of Aga/expensive kitchen/Fired Earth showrooms.

Then again, I enjoyed living in a thoroughly ungentrified bit of London that was populated entirely by halal butchers, Turkish grocery shops and the kind of clothes shops that are called things like Hollywoodz. Though by the time we left, our local had started doing barbecues with grilled seabass sandwiches, so I guess there goes the neighbourhood...

Islenka Thu 02-Jan-14 18:46:12

Well, I've lived in Peckham, Tower Hamlets and Billericay. People were judgy about Billericay. Apparently Essex=TOWIE hmm

MaeveBehave Thu 02-Jan-14 18:47:06

That's so rude.

You must be younger, more popular, better at your job???? Something like that so that she cant resist a dig. She's conflicted. Deep down she knows you're better than she is (for whatever reason) so she is encouraging you to feel bad about yourself / your life.

Iwilltrythisnamefornow Thu 02-Jan-14 18:50:35

To your question, 'AIBU to be embarrassed about the town where I live due to a colleague's comments', I would say yes, YABU to be embarrassed, as you are a grown woman who shouldn't give give a flying fig about people's opinions of your home town.
If you'd have asked AIBU to think your colleague is an idiot, I would have said YADNBU smile

AndHarry Thu 02-Jan-14 18:53:10

Try coming from Luton grin People laugh but I smile and remember that I'm not paying a tenner a time for my baby to attend rosemary-sniffing class.

mellicauli Thu 02-Jan-14 18:53:47

Tell her you never worry about it and you have some great friends there. Of course some people don't have the confidence to choose a nice place to live for themselves. So they follow the crowd and pay way over the odds for nothing very special.

Iwilltrythisnamefornow Thu 02-Jan-14 18:53:49

*clearly that should be just the one 'give' above... d'oh!

MaeveBehave Thu 02-Jan-14 18:54:59

If you want to get her back, ask her where she grew up. Then make a face.

tuggle Thu 02-Jan-14 18:55:03

Yes I live in Gravesend. On the outskirts of town. We have had no trouble since we have lived here.

notthefirstagainstthewall Thu 02-Jan-14 18:57:24

But people from poorer towns are always pointing out how lovely my town is.
It's bloody reputation means we are inundated with part time Londoners now.They push up house prices,clog up the narrow semi rural pavements with their designer Lycra jogging gear and filled the town with expensive shops that sell exactly the same distressed furniture /twee vintage/floral clothed crap as all the others.
Even the pubs are all exactly the same, Farrow and Ball, quirky stuffed animal gastro pubs.
It's a breath of fresh air when you get out to a genuine city with a rough bit and a smart bit and everything inbetween.
...and you can't say that because everyone really thinks you're being an arse for not recognising how lucky you are

foslady Thu 02-Jan-14 18:57:27

Try living in Scunthorpe, I used to and have heard the lot.......

ComposHat Thu 02-Jan-14 18:57:57

Rosemary sniffing class (ha ha ha!)

Sticklebricks Thu 02-Jan-14 18:59:34

There's loads of caravans in Kent - it's a holiday destination.

I live in the Twells and although it's undeniably posh in parts, you don't have to be a rude snob to live here. She'd be a rude snob anywhere.

Finola1step Thu 02-Jan-14 18:59:38

It's people like her that give us in TWells a bad name. But then I stick out a bit like a sore thumb and couldn't give a shit as I quite like it

Ignore her OP. She's ill mannered and not worth wasting your time and energy on. Never be ashamed or embarrassed about where you live or where you come from.

Finola1step Thu 02-Jan-14 19:00:24

Waves at Sticklebricks

PanicMode Thu 02-Jan-14 19:01:17

We live in TW because we couldn't afford Sevenoaks wink! I promise not everyone who lives here has such an appalling attitude - there are some seriously deprived areas of TW too with serious problems so she's being ridiculous (and rude).

Sticklebricks Thu 02-Jan-14 19:02:08

<Waves back!>

Finola1step Thu 02-Jan-14 19:02:55

And waves at panicmode

PanicMode Thu 02-Jan-14 19:04:50

Waves back at Sticklebricks and Finola1steps

tuggle Thu 02-Jan-14 19:06:10

I do not why it got to me so much.

We are happy here and have lovely neighbours.

There are far nicer parts of Kent but we could not afford to move there.

I'm just down the road from you OP, on the Hoo Peninsula. Gravesend is fine, lots of heritage, your colleague is just rude, and probably insecure.

Clumsyoaf Thu 02-Jan-14 19:07:50

For goodness sake!!! where you live, what you wear.... if anyone has the time or inclination to judge you based on that -pity them, and feel sorry for what their lives are. Head high two steps forward.

shadylane Thu 02-Jan-14 19:11:27

Tunbridge wells is shit.

Clumsyoaf Thu 02-Jan-14 19:12:08

and btw - Gravesend has a lot of beautiful things - the history, just look up when you walk!!! every building has dates and beautiful masonry work. a new sik temple which is awesome and welcomes all - Pochanatos... and a bloody good rail link to london...

MaeveBehave Thu 02-Jan-14 19:20:32

Ha ha AndHarry !!

Whathaveiforgottentoday Thu 02-Jan-14 19:30:14

I'm used to it living in that 'Essex london borough bit near Dagenham'. I take the piss out of the area quite a bit and don't mind some people taking the piss. It depends how they do it.
My poor DD's, one has Basildon on her birth certificate and the other has Romford. Classy!

ouryve Thu 02-Jan-14 19:32:12

She should be embarrassed about being so downright rude. And for being a living, breathing cliche.

May09Bump Thu 02-Jan-14 19:38:24

It rude and totally not classy / professional. I had a manager like this and was quite vocal about her dislike of another employee's town.

It sounds like she will lose respect & friends quickly - people tire of this crap.

I would just say your happy with your living arrangements and people have their opinions. Avoid her too if you can, sounds a bore.

Whathaveiforgottentoday Thu 02-Jan-14 19:41:42

I had a head teacher introduce me to some parents he was showing round as 'one of the essex girls on the staff'. I was working abroad and the the parents were not british so thankfully just looked blankly at him.
He thought he was funny - I thought he was a nob (although he was alright the rest of the time).

Mirage Thu 02-Jan-14 19:52:38

I used to live in the roughest street of a large village/small town.I didn't realise this until I'd lived there 9 years,put the house up for sale and an estate agent told me.Guess who didn't get the contract.wink

We then moved to a tiny village regarded as very smart,my then boss heard where we'd moved to and announced.'Bloody Hell,how did someone like you manage to buy a house there?' You can't win.

Changebagsandtinselrags Thu 02-Jan-14 20:00:45

Oh well just tell her we once had to stop off in Tunbridge Wells so DS could vomit.

pluCaChange Thu 02-Jan-14 20:04:24

grin at disgusting Tunbridge Wells with DS's vomiting!

CuntyBunty Thu 02-Jan-14 20:24:31

I overheard one of the managers at work dissing another colleague's town within earshot of the person living there. The poor woman heard and I did . I still remember (it was years ago) and still feel a bit of disdain for the manager. Your colleague will not be making herself popular. People hate that shit.

I grew up in Huyton, Liverpool grin

ExitPursuedByAChristmasGrinch Thu 02-Jan-14 20:27:34

PMSL at Delph being posh!

Now Grasscroft. That's posh.

She is rude. Tell her.

Applefallingfromthetree2 Thu 02-Jan-14 20:49:51

This attitude is common in London which is rife with post code snobbery. I am comforted by the fact that many so called 'less desirable areas' are often more vibrant and creative and less focussed on money. Easier to 'be yourself'

ComposHat Thu 02-Jan-14 21:09:58

Pah F

Trickykicky Thu 02-Jan-14 21:10:04

Yabu to feel embarrassed about where you live because of your colleague's tactless comment.

She may live in a nice place but sadly doesn't seem to have manners to match.

"When I think of this town I picture caravans. Isn't there a lot of social issues?"

Shouldn't that be "Aren't there a lot of social issues"?

Her grammar is off too. Saying is instead of are for plural is a pet hate of mine.. You should have corrected her. grin

NearTheWindmill Thu 02-Jan-14 21:18:36

>Waves< towards LS12. Thank you - most appreciated.

lookatmybutt Thu 02-Jan-14 21:57:58

She's the one that should be embarrassed, OP.

I remember going on a date once and one (of the many) thing(s) that put me off him was because he said, 'You live WHERE???!!? Why the fuck do you live there?'

I wouldn't have minded so much, but he lived in Walthamstow and felt that he was in no position to judge. Weirdo grin

Whenever she starts talking, just laugh and walk off.

thegreylady Thu 02-Jan-14 21:58:14

I would honestly have said, "Wow there really is a 'Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells' that is so funny!"

TheFarSide Thu 02-Jan-14 22:03:35

lookatmybutt - I live in Walthamstow - I am intrigued to hear where your date lived.

Walthamstow's quite desirable these days, don't you know - see my earlier post.

lookatmybutt Thu 02-Jan-14 22:41:35

Oh, it was my date that lived in Walthamstow. Nothing wrong with that (a few old mates of mine do/did live there and I've been there many times, nice enough place), I just wondered why he judged where I lived.

I live in the never fashionable suburb of West London. Ealing Borough. Horrendous house prices, but still a good place to go if you like to get stabbed.

I live in the poor part, where you're less likely to get stabbed. I like it here, it's pretty groovy.

He was actually VERY left wing, so I don't know why he was so snobby about it - but then he thought Hoxton was the bees knees. I think it contains rather a lot of wankers.

kickassangel Thu 02-Jan-14 22:56:05

Most people who actually grew up in T Wells just see it as a town. It's only a few people who moved there so they can boast about it have that attitude that it's somehow better.

My sister has just quit teaching in one of the difficult areas of T Wells and there is definitely a significant amount of financial and social deprivation in some areas.

kid Thu 02-Jan-14 22:56:43

I've recently moved to kent from east london and I do find it funny to hear people say horrible things about the area I've moved to. It's usually from the people who are still living in London. I just point out that I love my house and I chose to move here.

I don't really care what others think, especially those with negative opinions. We like it and thats what counts. I haven't actually been here that long but I've met loads of lovely people.

Lioninthesun Thu 02-Jan-14 23:03:57

I always think it is funny when people rave about T.Wells. I used to live near there and remember local lads peeing in the water thing that people then drank from as a tourist attraction <boak> I think they covered it up in recent years but there are many things that I associate with that area that aren't very Royal hmm

LadyRainicorn Thu 02-Jan-14 23:05:51

Caravans? in Gravesend? eh?

I used to live in Allhallows (near the Isle of grain). That was shitty. They stopped doing the bus after 6pm because people were throwing stones at them in the dark.

i was never fond of the medway towns , although T. Wells is as boring as fuck. Almost as bad as Milton Keynes.

joanofarchitrave Thu 02-Jan-14 23:13:48

I grew up in one of the 'acceptable' towns you mention. I still crack a smile when I think I never have to live there again. I mean, it's all right, but the best thing about it is the fast train out of it.

She's a ludicrous character, you can only laugh and say how much you like living in your own town and then ignore her. Though I suppose TWells is famous for having natural rock outcrops, very rare in the SE. That shows how thoroughly interesting it is.

Shakenbakep Thu 02-Jan-14 23:14:35

Haha all you lot moaning about Billaricay and north west Essex, I actually have to live in Brentwood, it's been ruined by that Towie crap. High street is full of paps, z class celebs and hen parties every weekend night, northern girls walking round with bloody rollers in their hair in the day, asking where the sugar hut is always right in front of it

knockedgymnast Thu 02-Jan-14 23:36:27

It used to be a bit of light-hearted joke the area where I lived between myself and a senior colleague I worked for. It was all tongue-in-cheek and he was by no means a snob.

Some new staff started work and another colleague who had overheard the banter between ex colleague loves telling people about the area I live and its pitfalls. Whenever any staff mention where they live, this colleague will pipe up 'well you never would guess where she lives and you'd never believe what her neighbours get up to'

It's fucking irritating!

landrover Thu 02-Jan-14 23:39:30

Yayyyyy, its time for the "Do you mean to be so rude" mug to come out! xxxxxx

BohemianGirl Thu 02-Jan-14 23:40:17

I like Gravesend, I think it's a lovely town.

Caravans not as many as Abbey Wood and Sidcup and St Pauls Cray

BreconBeBuggered Thu 02-Jan-14 23:56:21

MIL proudly told her milkman we were moving to a naice town a few miles from her, and she mentioned the street name. 'Oh, God', said the milkman. 'You won't want to be visiting there - it's the worst street in town'.

PotsofGold Thu 02-Jan-14 23:57:01

Your colleague would hate me. I live in Cleethorpes and I bloody well like it.

I once met a snob from somewhere down south He said that anyone from Grimsby and Cleethorpes should be shot, and the two towns should be cut off from the rest of the country as they weren't civilised enough.


VworpVworp Fri 03-Jan-14 00:07:46

aren't Diggle and Dobcross the poshest?

I know some fab people from Derker...

tuggle Fri 03-Jan-14 00:49:29

I should have told her where to go rather than let her opinion get to me.

tuggle Fri 03-Jan-14 00:53:47

Bohemian I have never noticed caravans in Sidcup or Abbeywood. I know people who live in both places.

ComposHat Fri 03-Jan-14 01:02:35

I only

ComposHat Fri 03-Jan-14 01:02:35

I o

ComposHat Fri 03-Jan-14 01:02:35

I only go

ComposHat Fri 03-Jan-14 01:03:59

I only go to Tunbridge Wells to see how the riff raff live and to distribute alms to the (second) homeless.

DailyMailGail Fri 03-Jan-14 01:08:07

If the people living in Tunbridge Wells are like her you're better off out of it anyway.

Fucking snob bitch.

(Disgusted - Not of Tunbridge Wells)

NigellasDealer Fri 03-Jan-14 01:08:41

I would rather stick pins in my eyes than live in TWells...

ReluctantBeing Fri 03-Jan-14 01:12:05

I grew up in Orpington and I'm common as muck! We moved to Yorkshire where we can actually afford to rent a house.

ComposHat Fri 03-Jan-14 01:40:50

Orpington always sounds like it should be a pit village in south Yorkshire, complete with its own colliery band. Billericay sounds like it should be in Ireland and Newark and Penzance sound like they should be in Scotland.

C3P0 Fri 03-Jan-14 01:43:56

Just mock her by talking about the 'projects' and how your next door neighbour is a crack dealer so nobody dares mess with your 'hood. After a while, she might realise that she's been a bit rude.

Alternatively you could ask how many houses she's got. And then say 'oh, is that all? I thought you were quite well off'.

You're doing the right thing BTW. Hyacinth Bucket is just keeping up appearances.

Solo Fri 03-Jan-14 03:20:25

Bought my first house in Rosherville, Northfleet, just outside of Gravesend and loved it! Got friends that still live in Gravesend and I love shopping there too!

Icelollycraving Fri 03-Jan-14 04:59:27

Well I grew up in T Wells & loved it. It will always make me nostalgic when I walk past Davinchis grin
I have lived in Dalston (before it was cool),Woolwich & Thamesmead. I knew Thamesmead wasn't great to say the least but I remember being pretty sad when there was a thread on here saying it was a slum etc etc. I'm glad to have moved to be honest but having others say your home is in a shit place can upset.
She was an ill mannered idiot,don't let her rudeness affect you.

WantToShop Fri 03-Jan-14 05:09:47

Caravans in Sidcup? I don't think so dear, that's the Crays you're thinking of. Sidcup, despite the perennial piss-taking is all about the leafy parks, tree-lined avenues and grammar schools.

Hideous accent though.

TobyLerone Fri 03-Jan-14 05:20:54

I used to have a boyfriend in TWells. It wasn't that special and I only went there so often because he was gloriously beautiful.

I don't really know that part of Kent too well, but DS had a rugby match in Gravesend recently and I was quite impressed by how lovely some of the houses are.

Solo Fri 03-Jan-14 05:21:38

St Mary Cray ~ Star Lane is the worst for caravans I think. St Paul's Cray next. Crayford...

kickassangel Fri 03-Jan-14 05:38:14

Omg the car park by the Victoria Centre does a very bizarre and (while we're hurling insults) very chavtastic warning about not leaving valuables in the car.

Dh and I nearly died laughing. Some guy from Britain's got talent apparently. Then there was the broken glass in the doorway and a homeless guy begging for money in the stairwell.

Yep TW is uber classy.

(I come from Saaarfboro up the 'ill, so I should know)

kickassangel Fri 03-Jan-14 05:40:10

Davinci's smilewink
Better not recount some of my experiences there. shock

WantToShop Fri 03-Jan-14 05:44:27

Blimey solo - you've just taken me back 20+ years - a friend of mine lived in Star Lane - in a house, not a caravan. She was lovely her brother was a bit iffy though. grin

FrostedButts Fri 03-Jan-14 06:10:40


FrostedButts Fri 03-Jan-14 06:12:37


FrostedButts Fri 03-Jan-14 06:14:21

I am not pressing post and its bloody posting!
she soumds a.bit unworldly

I slag off places all the time but only if I've lived there!!

bumbumsmummy Fri 03-Jan-14 06:26:06

Who died and made her queen of civilised socieety !

She's a rude cow and best given a wide berth secretly these people always very jealous and insecure underneath

You never ever have to justify anything to anyone you sound like a lovely person find some other lovely people to talk to .

Skrifa Fri 03-Jan-14 06:30:25

We moved from Gravesend four and a half years ago, to Clacton on Sea. Then we moved to Dagenham and Barking. Poor DC hmm grin

sashh Fri 03-Jan-14 06:56:23

Good grief. I was brought up in East Lancs, to me all of Kent is posh.

FunkyBoldRibena Fri 03-Jan-14 07:32:13

Tunbridge wells. Aah.

I snogged the lead singer of a band that I shan't say backstage at the forum there, and my boyfriend at the time tapped him on the shoulder and said 'that's my bird'.

Happy days.

Oh shit, now I'll have this ditty in my head all day. grin

hoboken Fri 03-Jan-14 08:05:26

I live in a large, historic city which consistently comes up as one of the best places in UK in which to live. The petit bourgeoisie (of whom there are many here some of whom are petit-minded in the extreme) make sure everyone is firmly pigeon holed by asking which school the children attend and at what number in which street we live. I am in no way singled out - everyone gets the same treatment to see if they are worth knowing.

I lived in T Wells for many years and it has it's wealthy side but also some very deprived neighbourhoods.

chrome100 Fri 03-Jan-14 08:11:34

I live in quite a student area and our house is a bit tatty. I like it though, as it's really near work, cheap and right next to the city centre which is perfect for us as we can't afford a car.

On NYE we had a party at which one of the guests, who I didn't know very well, started criticising my choices. He was asking me why I chose to live here, was I clinging onto my youth? Didn't I want to better myself? I felt really crushed.

WaitingForMe Fri 03-Jan-14 09:01:36

At a networking event in Cheltenham, upon hearing I lived in Gloucester, someone "oh how do you cope?" I laughed then realised they were serious.

Tubemole1 Fri 03-Jan-14 09:37:30

I come from a village in Northamptonshire, which is very beige.

I moved to Hackney, then lived in Tower Bridge, (not actually in it, but a sub let down the road) then with my in laws in Walworth, then my husband blagged a part buy part rent in East Dulwich. It is small and cramped and a bit tatty now, and we have eyes on Bexleyheath, which in some areas is naice but in others very ordinary indeed. Which is why we like it.

Your colleague is a snob. East Dulwich is considered "regenerated" yet I live next to a council estate which has problems, and many local incomers regard it with absolute disdain. The incomers also hate the Iceland store on Lordship Lane and the tatty prefab community centre. They all have massive buggies and send their children to so many after school clubs the kids get overstimulated. They work in media, or law, or the arts. They go to the South of France for their holidays and ski. I work for the Underground. I hate the idea of skiing. If we can afford it, we go to the Isle of Wight or the New Forest for our holidays. My child goes to drama club for one hour a week after school. I have so little in common with them, which is why we want to move.wink

TrinnyandSatsuma Fri 03-Jan-14 10:54:57

We live in a less than sought after area. The houses are thousands of pounds cheaper, so we can have a lifestyle we would never be able to afford if we lived in the "nicer" postcode.

I have never met such a lot of friendly, lovely and helpful people. Our village is community focused and full of great people.

Your colleague probably has an enormous mortgage and snooty neighbours!

ITCouldBeWorse Fri 03-Jan-14 11:00:47

Big drug problems in TW. Clearly the residents don't like to talk about that!

elQuintoConyo Fri 03-Jan-14 11:01:43

Hey, hey, who was dissing Folkestone upthread? We have a triennial art show dotted about town, doncha know, it is happening this year.

Er... yeah, you are right actually, it is a crap hole. Marks and Spencers closed a few years ago - surely the death toll for any town? On the other hand the charity shops are pretty good grin

TheHeadlessLadyofCannock Fri 03-Jan-14 11:09:30

Well, you could tell her to feck off, or you could try to engage her in a discussion about it to try to change her mind, or at least broaden her views slightly.

Depends how much you can be arsed grin

LithaR Fri 03-Jan-14 11:18:37

I used to live in St Anns in Nottingham. Known for gun crime and drugs, yet living there I have never known a better community spirit. My sister had a fire in her flat and the amount of people that offered help made me proud.

The rougher the area the nicer the people in my experience.

catgirl1976 Fri 03-Jan-14 11:24:27

DH is from near Tunbridge Wells

I think it's a shithole. Refused to move there when it was recently floated on that basis.

You can tell your friend that from me smile

tuggle Fri 03-Jan-14 11:50:13

Are St Paul and Mary's Cray in Orpington?

Gravesend does have some very nice houses just like any other town. It just does not have a good reputation overall.

Yes there is poverty and high unemployment in some parts. One thing I do not like are the teenage boys who hang around some parts in gangs/small groups.

ReluctantBeing Fri 03-Jan-14 12:01:21

Yes they are.

pudseypie Fri 03-Jan-14 12:06:11

Oi! We are not all snobby cows in t wells! and I chose to live here cos I love it... Please stop the t wells bashing some of us are lovely!

Solo Fri 03-Jan-14 15:45:59

Yes, SMC and SPC are Orpington postal areas.

SMC Star Lane has a traveller reputation as I understand it.

Gravesend had a massive drug problem a few years back, but haven't heard bad reports for a while. There is a huge immigrant population there now that wasn't there 20+ years ago. Back in the 80's it was an Indian area and lovely. Now it is very Polish and Romanian.

ReluctantBeing Fri 03-Jan-14 16:02:09

Yes, Star Lane, and also there is a site on the border of SPC and Sidcup.

Lesshastemorespeed Fri 03-Jan-14 16:06:14

I lived near Tunbridge Wells for a bit.

It was snobby & boring.

HandMini Fri 03-Jan-14 16:07:42

I have allegiances to (a poor part of) Kent. There is quite a lot of Kent bashing, but there are not-so-nice places in every county and Kent really is the garden of England. Beautiful coast, amazing agriculture, the history is incredible, especially Dickens country down in the marshes and Saxon/Viking stuff on the coast.

I bet she's never been out of Tunbridge Wells. What a loser.

tuggle Fri 03-Jan-14 17:52:10

Solo Gravesend still has a lot of Asians and lots of lovely Indian restaurants. I cannot say I have noticed many Romanians at all. Perhaps they live in specific parts. I live on the outskirts of town near Singlewell.

There are also alot of Africans - namely Nigerians moving to the area from London. My ds' s school is very multi-cultured.

Solo Fri 03-Jan-14 18:40:22

RB yes, you are right! I forgot about that even though I drive past it at least twice a week!

I always got on well with the Indian community tuggle smile fond memories. We used to frequent The Curry Mecca, which was fab!

My friend has learned to be very careful with her house refuse as she regularly catches Romanians going through her rubbish shock; they are apparently looking for paperwork.
There was a big spate of robberies from people using the G/end Adsa cashpoints too I believe and that was also by Romanians. Such a shame as I have Romanian friends who are just lovely and it gives her family a bad name sad.

I had thought of moving back to Northfleet/Gravesend, but doubt I would now.

ReluctantBeing Fri 03-Jan-14 19:46:27

I taught in Gravesend for a whole, Northfleet. I lived in Erith at the time. It was handy for the journey.
Although Kent is beautiful in places, I have to say I find Yorkshire more breathtaking, if a little colder.

ReluctantBeing Fri 03-Jan-14 19:46:55

Whole? I mean while.

Winterlight Fri 03-Jan-14 20:14:11

Ah, Dover my old home town.

If the Channel is 'La Manche' (The sleeve) then Dover must be the armpit.

Got a proper castle tho. Up yours T.Wells!

Solo Fri 03-Jan-14 20:19:24

St Joseph's or St Barnabas? grin I mention those two as I don't know of any others in N/fleet!!! didn't have children whilst I lived there!

NearTheWindmill Fri 03-Jan-14 20:29:06

>>whispers<< I have been on this thread already but now ready to admit that I am from Kent. But I am a Maid of Kent and have never been to Tunbridge Wells blush. I think Maids of Kent sound more classy than Kentish Maids tbh grin.

S'Fannitt, innit - well clarsy.

tuggle Sat 04-Jan-14 00:11:06

Solo Tufail on Parrock St is nice. Does your friend live near the town centre? I find it very a bit rough around the edges.

When we were looking we were advised to stay away from the town centre. Glad we took the advice.

Solo Sat 04-Jan-14 03:02:49

She does now, but didn't before...I doubt she will for long either! grin

hudjes Sat 04-Jan-14 07:28:57

FFS what's with the TW bashing. I live in TW. Everywhere has it's good and bad points.

TobyLerone Sat 04-Jan-14 07:39:08

Don't sweat it, hudjes.

Today it's TW. Tomorrow it'll be Exeter or Kilmarnock or Grimsby. Nobody really cares.

lekkerslaap Sat 04-Jan-14 07:52:51

How rude and judgemental. The woman obviously has no manners and I would give her a very wide berth personally.

Just before we got married, my old boss made a really derogratory comment about our wedding venue. Needless to say, I didn't stay in the job very long after that. Twat.

Gingersnap88 Sat 04-Jan-14 07:56:11

Have been waiting for someone to mention Swanley or more of the Medway towns!

I get these kind of comments all of the time, it's boring.

Am from SW London (posh post code) but have met more lovely people in Kent and really love our lives here!

She must be very ignorant / sheltered OP!

Pooka Sat 04-Jan-14 08:05:06

I saw some people shooting up in the harlequin shopping centre (tunbridge wells). Never seen it before or since and have lived in salubrious and less salubrious places before then and after.

Pooka Sat 04-Jan-14 08:07:19

And I'm not dissing TW. just pointing out that most places have their share of social problems and for my local area's lairy boozers on a fri night in the town centre, other areas may have other social issues and antisocial behaviour.

windywoo26 Sat 04-Jan-14 08:08:43

Tuggle, Gravesend is really not that bad. It has the high speed rail link, not many places can boast 20 min journey into Central London. RTW trains stop at about 10 and they have to change at Tonbridge, and have you ever tried driving there at rush hour? It's a nightmare.

There are rougher areas in every town (bet that includes RTW too).

Gravesend is not perfect but I for one like living there.

Your colleague is a rude snob who has probably not been to Gravesend recently anyway.

Mimishimi Sat 04-Jan-14 08:09:43

I would have looked back at her snootily and said "Do you mean, aren't there a lot of social issues?"

JugglingIntoANewYear Sat 04-Jan-14 08:46:05

LOL @ rosemary sniffing classes for babies And Harry - genius !!

Like lots of people we could possibly afford a tiny smaller place in a naicer, posher area - there are lots of gorgeous villages around our much maligned city too.

But we've been fortunate to be able to afford a reasonably sized family home with enough space for us all to keep out of each other's way to spread out a bit - and that's good enough for us!

I think people who allow themselves to be overly defined by where they live are somewhat limited in imagination and adventurous spirit.
It makes me laugh when some people at the church down the road are a bit sniffy about us because we don't quite live in what they like to think of as "the village" - but is really now on the outskirts of the urban sprawl of our small city. Shock horror, no, we don't exactly live in X we live 5 mins up the road! fshock

JugglingIntoANewYear Sat 04-Jan-14 08:47:37

nearer the station and the A1 for easier escape elsewhere fgrin

PanicMode Sat 04-Jan-14 09:49:23

I am laughing at the 'TW has a drug problem' comments - I defy any town not to have its fair share of drugs, and particularly in more affluent areas they exist, they just have different names (Kristal, Valium, ginwink)

And bash TW all you like - some of us are lucky enough to live here and enjoy doing so very much, without bashing anyone else's choices of location. Those who have been derogatory are just as guilty of bad manners as the OP's colleague IMO! Live and let live and stop judging each other for everything.

ImpOfDarkness Sat 04-Jan-14 10:49:22

We live in an "ethnic" part of town full of halal butchers and wig shops. It means we can afford a massive house and our ilmigrant neighbours, ignorant of British ways, keep bringung us cakes grin

AndHarry Sat 04-Jan-14 19:26:43

Honestly, I went to Harpenden a posh bit outside my town especially for a rosemary-sniffing 'sensory' class for babies, at which everyone ignored me except for the lone SAHD (everyone ignored him too) while DS screamed at the top of his lungs. Just what I needed while out of my mind with exhaustion and PND. Luckily it was a free introductory class and I found a more friendly (and free!) baby group in Luton.

On another note, I'm glad someone else has spotted the irony of posters slagging off TW on this thread hmm

TSSDNCOP Sat 04-Jan-14 19:39:08

Well I live in the centre of Gravesend, and have to say Tuggle it is you who is beginning to sound a lot like your colleague now.

<examines edges for roughness and marvels at lack of caravan>


There is no harlaquin shopping centre in tunbridge wells.

Pooka Sat 04-Jan-14 19:59:23

Of course not! Doh! I don't know why I always call it the harlequin. Was shopping centre in RTW. But I've had this before - referred to it as harlequin and cue blank looks.

Not that I am overly defensive of Royal Tunbridge Wells or anything.

Pooka Sat 04-Jan-14 20:07:10

If anyone is referring to me as criticising RTW, really I'm not. I like the place very much as an occasional shopping destination. Don't live there but have friends who do.

Was simply trying (obv failing) to say that all towns have issues. Some places are perceived as oases of calm and gentility, but that's not to say they are perfect. You only have to watch Hot Fuzz to see that. wink

The place I live in is sometimes perceived as desirable or posh. But quite hot for burglary and car theft.

Pooka Sat 04-Jan-14 20:08:27

X post.

CalamitouslyWrong Sat 04-Jan-14 20:22:07

Doyouthinktheysawus: DH comes from the same stretch of the south coast that you live in. We were just down visiting the PILs. DH and BIL are always going on about it being incredibly crap, but I'm always slightly perplexed by how much they hate it there. Sure, it's not enormously fashionable, but it's not horrible.

I come from just outside Glasgow, so it is a lot nicer than the places on my 'places I'd really rather not live' list.

SeaSickSal Sat 04-Jan-14 20:39:15

Tunbridge is famous for being a hotbed of dogging.

Bromley is full of oiks and Orpington full of tarts.

And if Gravesend is good enough for Pocohontas it's good enough for me.

Although I did accidentally live in a Flat in St Paul's Cray for a year and would literally have killed myself to get out but fortunately only had to have sex with a nice man who let me move in with him in East London instead.

ReluctantBeing Sat 04-Jan-14 20:58:21

I am not a tart!

HorsePetal Sat 04-Jan-14 21:11:56

Oh shut up you lot, I live in Swindon.


SeaSickSal Sat 04-Jan-14 22:33:59

RB, 97.85% of women in Orpington are tarts. The other 2.15% blue stocking ex-headmistresses of Newstead Wood.

Very good A'Level results you have their ma'am.

SeaSickSal Sat 04-Jan-14 22:34:22

*There. Guess who didn't pass the exam for Newstead.

MoreBeta Sat 04-Jan-14 22:47:15

I live in a town that is widely acknowledged to be one of the worst in the UK for social deprivation. TV news networks always come here to film background shots of our high street to show what social deprivation and shuttered shops look like. It suffers major flooding on a regular basis. Its train service is slower than it was 100 years ago. Its broadband service is so bad the Government has given the town a special grant to pay BT to upgrade it.

Frankly I quite like telling people how bad it is. There really is no shame. People who have a problem with it have a problem. I don't. It has its redeeming features.

HesterShaw Sat 04-Jan-14 22:50:14

<wanders in>

I like Whitstable.

<wanders out>

ComposHat Sat 04-Jan-14 22:55:53

Tunbridge is famous for being a hotbed of dogging.

SO that's why they all drive Volvo estates for!

I wonder if the sales staff at the Volvo dealers in Tunbridge wells play up to this.

'As you can see the boot is extremely spacious and the adventurous dogger could easily attempt a three way in there. Rest assured the rear suspension is the best in its class. The windows give excellent visibility for those wishing to observe the action from the outside and all the upholstery is stain resistant.'

Yumsnet Sat 04-Jan-14 23:31:10

I've always liked TW, although I've never lived there.

My dad, until recently, has been a locum pharmacist there on and off for the past five years. And he says the drug problem in TW is getting really bad, even he was shocked by it (and this is having worked in an innercity London estate for many years beforehand).

Tell Mrs Snooty that!

ReluctantBeing Sat 04-Jan-14 23:40:20

I went to Newstead Woods. I had rubbish A level results though.

Solo Sat 04-Jan-14 23:50:20

ComposHat loving the description of the Volvo estate! (I always read your name as CompostHat grin)

I don't think Orpington has any more tarts in it tha........oh, hang on, yep! yes it does! exp and his brother had the same one and her mate...

bochead Sun 05-Jan-14 15:34:27

TW if famous for = dogging, druggies and hyacinth bucket types. The druggie problem has existed for decades.

It's an Ok town, no better nor worse than many other home counties areas.

Just nickname your colleague HB from now on, or ask her if she's still having an affair with Onslow next time you see her. She's a silly woman.

DownstairsMixUp Sun 05-Jan-14 15:43:53

ignore her OP. I'm in Kent to, where I live everyone says it's inbred and full of a "travellers" (not sure why that makes it a shit hole) I just stare at them and look away. I really don't care of their opinion. I agree she sounds the original disgusted of tunbridge wells, tell her to bore off.

DownstairsMixUp Sun 05-Jan-14 15:50:33

Oh and Folkestone and Dover are shit holes I agree, worst parts of Kent I've ever been to. (even Dartford) I still wouldn't judge someone for living there. they are cheap and that's what some people can afford. I live in the shit part of kent but four miles up the road is the naice seaside but I can't afford it. People judge. Also people automatically judge me when I say i grew up in Dagenham and ask me if I know Stacey Solomon. hmm

tuggle Sun 05-Jan-14 16:13:54

TSS I did not mean to offend. I was referring to the trouble Gravesend town centre has at night when young people leave the pubs/bars/clubs.

To be honest I like TW. It looks like a nice place to live.

Downstairs How rude of people to say your area is full of inbreds and travellers. Inbred is a vile way of describing people.

I had no idea Dover was not nice. I have never been but spoke to a woman who said she went to one of Kent's best schools in Dover.

NearTheWindmill Sun 05-Jan-14 17:27:27

None of the shitholes are all that far from Canterbury. I come from a bit that's regarded as a property cold spot but if you have a few bob the properties and the coastline are fantastic. Think those two towers in the distance with the tide out revealing the golden sands.

Trouble is there's no work that far down and the commute is still a teeny bit too long.

My DS took his girlfriend to the place for the first time a couple of months ago and she thought it was the most lovely and prettiest place she'd ever visited.

And speaking of Folkestone there are parts and parts - Sandgate is still nice I think.

I was moved from a naice private school to a fantastic grammar because that's what happened 40 years ago in my part of Kent. The grammars were better than the indys for the most part and many many families had mixed schools for their children with those who didn't pass the 11+ going private and those who did going to the grammars. I suppose it still happens.

DownstairsMixUp Sun 05-Jan-14 18:29:39

Dover has a very good grammar school tuggle as does folkestone just the areas are a bit deprived/not very nice.

Yep these comments are on frequently on the local gazette page online about where i live! It does have a few characters that stand out as its a small town but that happens. Isle of sheppey gets the same said of it!

DownstairsMixUp Sun 05-Jan-14 18:30:40

Reculver nearthewindmill pain in the ass to get to by public transport but we go there reguarly in the summer.

NearTheWindmill Sun 05-Jan-14 19:26:29

Not quite Reculver but walking towards it having turned left wink. When I was a little lass the locals said the wail on the wind was from the babies the Romans or their poredecessors sacrificed in the foundations. Now they say it's the raucous lot who descend to the caravans from April until October.

IDugUpADiamond Sun 12-Jan-14 13:17:19

OP, your colleague is quite obviously rude and insensitive but all of you posters dissing TW in return are no better.

scantilymad Sun 12-Jan-14 14:34:07

The lady may have a lovely lifestyle but that doesn't seem seem to be reflected in her manners! As long as you like where you live OP then just smile and ignore. We live in a lovely, albeit tiny house in a lovely close in a not so lovely part of a big seaside town. The area may be "rough" but we have great facilities all in walking distance. So long as my family are happy here then so am I.
Some of my happiest pre married days were in a tiny studio flat in SW London. The area had a bad reputation but I met loads of lovely, diverse and interesting people. I think lack of knowledge/life experiences makes people draw odd convulsions sometimes!

scantilymad Sun 12-Jan-14 14:35:02

Sorry. Conclusions not convulsions. Lovely. :D

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now