To hate being gay?

(177 Posts)
DixieGoesToHollywood Thu 02-Jan-14 10:57:33

I know this seems rather self indulgent and is probably a bit of a non issue but it's something I just can't get out of my head.

I am a lesbian and unfortunately can't change that, much as I would love to be straight.

I feel like I can't cope with the people who make comments in the street (not all the time, but on the odd occasion) and shout at me and DP that we are disgusting. I hate the way I have to correct people when they assume my DP is a man and they always pretend not to be shocked but sometimes you can tell they're thinking "oh my god, didn't have her down as a lesbian" grin.

I'm worried that my future children will be bullied and that other parents won't want to hang round with me and DP.

I guess I'm worried that homophobia is still around and I honestly wish I could be straight and just blend in. I hate myself even more for being so ashamed.

RandyRudolf Thu 02-Jan-14 11:00:53

Never think that this is a non issue. You have every right to voice your feelings over this.

FudgefaceMcZ Thu 02-Jan-14 11:02:16

sad I'm sorry you and DP are suffering this kind of stupid treatment by pathetic homophobes.

Do you think you might get chance to move somewhere more tolerant? I think the UK varies a lot in how many bigots there are- small towns etc are really bad for it whereas some places are a lot less 1950s-ish.

RandyRudolf Thu 02-Jan-14 11:02:55

Posted too early then!

Homophobia is well and truly still a big issue. I have friends, family and colleagues who in the right social situations are all politically correct yet when you're in private you can guarantee a 'joke' or a 'sneer' about someone gay, be it on TV or real life.

Fleta Thu 02-Jan-14 11:02:59

You poor, poor thing. Am I allowed to give you a very un-Mumsnetty hug?

I don't think anyone for a minute wouldn't want to have an easier ride and blend in. I don't think that's anything to be ashamed of.

I do have a private snigger when people say "well I wouldn't have thought she/he would be gay" - WHY?!

Hang in there x

phantomnamechanger Thu 02-Jan-14 11:03:17

are your own family accepting of you and DP? I just wonder where your "shame" and "wishing you were straight" stems from.

IMO life is too short for worrying what other people think - try to accept who you are and be happy. Anyone who has a problem is not worth worrying about.

MardyBra Thu 02-Jan-14 11:03:25

Sorry to hear you're having a having a rough time with prejudice. I think society is becoming more accepting, but it is a slow process, and some areas of the country are probably more gay-friendly than others.

Although you have a few nobbers who are causing you aggro, don't forget there is a silent accepting majority who are supportive.

Spottycurtains Thu 02-Jan-14 11:04:04

I understand how you feel. My son is gay and I worry for him for all those reasons. But his sexuality is the least interesting thing about him, he's funny and kind and loving and the most wonderful human you can imagine and I bet you are too.

cuggles Thu 02-Jan-14 11:05:05

Dixie, I am sorry you still feel this way in this day and age and being straight I probably dont understand so cant offer much but I did want to say one thing...Iam a secondary school teacher and really feel teenagers nowadays are much more accepting and genuinely pretty unfazed by sexuality these days. I hear much more in the way of homophobia from my mums generation than the kids I teach (and I dont teach in a great area!) So hopefully times are changing and things will improve for you and any children you might have.

x2boys Thu 02-Jan-14 11:06:54

I,m sorry its even an issue in this day and age and there is still homophobia around. I am seeing more and more same sex couple having families including my cousin people are ignorant its wrong and very rude!

lizardqueenie Thu 02-Jan-14 11:07:13

I just wanted to post my support Dixie, your post made me feel really sad. Is there any support in terms of counseling that would help you feel better and cope better? You shouldn't feel ashamed at all and you should feel extremely proud of who you are. Is there a gay community close to where you live? I live very close to London and other big towns so although homophobia still exists i feel its more diverse. Do you have any support from family or your DP's family? Un-MN hugs

ViviPru Thu 02-Jan-14 11:08:32

It must be shit sometimes, OP. But if it's any comfort, with it being increasingly common for same-sex couples to have children, things will hopefully get easier for you and future DCs.

I mentioned on here the other day my 5 y-o goddaughter chatting away to me about her BF's Mums like it was the most normal thing in the world, she completely accepts it unquestioningly, as she should. And that's just in an unremarkable suburban environment, not a particularly progressive, nor unconventional circle. In fact, now I think about it, at the BBQ she was chatting about, her other godparents were present, two lesbians currently undergoing IVF. I reiterate, the mutual friends (my goddaughter's parents) are not especially unconventional or progressive, nor have a particularly diverse circle of friends.... I just think it's a sign of the times that peoples choices are becoming more widely accepted and with more people being out about their sexuality, it's slowly becoming mainstream.

Don't hate yourself sad

DixieGoesToHollywood Thu 02-Jan-14 11:08:52

It's particularly hard because I'm only really "out" to close family and friends so I do get a lot of people e.g. At work making wanky comments about gay people without realising I am one of them!

My parents tolerate it, but I think deep down they are disappointed. They also refuse to acknowledge that me and DP could get married or start a family. My mother who is a biology university lecturer specialising in medical science asked me the other day if lesbians could have babies angry.

koTinkaBell Thu 02-Jan-14 11:10:08

yanbu, it's definitely a harder life and recent events (Russia!) make me worry for gay people.

I'm bisexual and it's so much easier to just live life as a straight person, though I feel it's a cop out.

I'm not gay.. but my 22yr old daughter is, and she didn't 'come out' until she was nearly 20, even though she had always always known, precisely because of what you have said...she didn't want to be different, she wanted the norm (whatever normal is!) and she was worried about how she would be perceived in her career (medicine).

However one day she just took a deep breath and basically said 'this is who I am' and has been a lot happier ever since! And to be honest I don't think anyone actually was bothered or shocked.. the family reaction from her youngest brother to her grandparents was ' ok..now go find a nice girlfriend and be happy' smile

I think that anyone, who is perceived to be 'different' in any way gets raised eyebrows and the odd comment now and again.. whether it be sexuality, disability (my youngest has autism and learning difficulties and appears 'weird') fashion choice, weight.. that's just society, unfortunately. Explaining to my son, who is as gentle and harmless as can be, that 'retard' is a nasty word used by nasty people and that people can be plain mean, is heartbreaking, but I can't protect him from everyone and everything and we just ry to give him the confidence to step out and be himself.

But maybe it would help to have some councelling for yourself to talk about how you feel, and why and to help you feel happier in your own skin? Are you part of the the LGBT community? DD1 is surrounded by friends who are gay, friends who are straight and quickly realised that actually she's not that much of a minority smile

Hang in there.. it really IS ok to be who you are!!

DixieGoesToHollywood Thu 02-Jan-14 11:12:55

I have to say that reading comments on here really does help me to realise that not everyone is homophobic so thanks to you all! You really are helping.

Vivi I saw that comment on the thread and it made me smile smile.

RandyRudolf Thu 02-Jan-14 11:13:32

I used to just ignore people when they made wanky comments about other people's choices but now I challenge them. I don't see why i should stay quiet and let people get away with saying some of the things they do.

ViviPru Thu 02-Jan-14 11:13:50

Good! Keep smiling grin

neunundneunzigluftballons Thu 02-Jan-14 11:14:33

I think anything that differentiates you from the cultural norm has the power to make you feel like that. I have felt like that bf in public in a completely breastfeedingaphobic society as a minor example. It really is as simple as accepting that there are ignorant arseholes in the world and it is not your job to change them and then continue as you were. If it is not about race or sexuality it can be about anything with those idiots. It is destructive to your self esteem to feel that way about something that is fundamental to your being so I wonder if you might need to address these feelings through counselling.

Beastofburden Thu 02-Jan-14 11:18:53

Dixie, part of this may indeed be where you work and/or live. Wankerish comments are really not the norm, so the fear that your children will have to tolerate them, or that you will, forever, may be based on you being somewhere rather small-minded.

I work at a university and we have a temp at the moment. That person is gay and has a number of other characteristics that have led to bullying in other jobs. Even though the job is not as challenging as they could manage, they absolutely love it as there is not one sniff of disrespect or mockery.

Deciding how public you want to be is a highly personal decision. I have noticed that the people who are generally out seem to me to be more relaxed than the people who are largely not out ( though out to me, obviously; I have no clue about the people who haven't told me) . But it's impossible for me to know if this is cause or effect. Are the out people happier because they are out, or are they out because they were already happy in their skin?

Lizzabadger Thu 02-Jan-14 11:21:06

You're not being self-indulgent and sadly it's not a non-issue.

I think you need to work on the being ashamed bit though.

Good luck and happy new year!

Elfhame Thu 02-Jan-14 11:22:09

It sounds like you have internalized the stigma and it is harming your self-esteem - you shouldn't have to hate what you are.

I am sorry to hear that in this day and age there are ignorant idiots making people feel like this.

DottyDot Thu 02-Jan-14 11:24:38

Hi there - is there any way you can consider being 'out' to more people - at work and to a wider group of friends?

I used to find it much harder back in the days when I wasn't out to everyone - somehow once absolutely everyone knows, there's no 'shame' or place to hide, so it seems easier?! I haven't expressed that very well but hope it makes some kind of sense.

The main thing that drives me a bit bonkers is the constant 'coming out' when we meet new people - either at work or ds's schools. But it's OK - have got used to correcting people's assumptions (that dp must be a man) and then it's done.

Ds's say they find it a bit annoying sometimes to have to explain to their new friends about having two Mums, but we check in with them fairly regularly about whether anyone's given them grief about it and they say no - it's all pretty matter of fact to them and they can't understand (bless them) why anyone would give anyone else a hard time about being gay. I think this is also the view of most of their friends. Could be seeing life through rose-tinted glasses but I think things are changing for that generation - whereas we lived through much more difficult years of homophobia in this country.

Thetallesttower Thu 02-Jan-14 11:24:49

I'm sorry you feel like this. I do agree attitudes are changing, we certainly have several out members of staff at work (in a professional environment) but this is relatively recent but a very positive step I think, that people feel they can be themselves, bring their partners along to the Christmas party and not lie about the gender of their partner when chatting.

So, things are changing, but I understand if you work or encounter bigotry a lot more, this may not be very visible and I do agree many people make unthinking nasty remarks about being gay as part of bantering (not my friends, but I have heard it).

I also think the younger generation is more liberal, my children have always known that men and women can marry in different combinations, and my 10 year old dd was chatting about Tom Daley the other day as the school did a class about him and how great he was! This was unthinkable in my generation, so I hope that this continues.

But- as others have said, are you part of a wider community? Do you have other friends who are gay/bisexual? It's a shame you feel so lonely and isolated- you may not want to fit into the 'gay community' (or you may) but surely if you get chatting to your friends you may find some of them are gay or bisexual too, people often have a variety of experiences in life and by being open yourself, you will find others have similar ones much more than you think- you are assuming you are very isolated but you may find that's not the case.

AmberLeaf Thu 02-Jan-14 11:26:47

I have teen boys and I get the impression that being 'out and proud' is more common amongst their age group than it was when I was that age, their peers don't seem to view it as something to be sneered at and they are very accepting and matter of fact about it.

My Mum was friends with a few lesbians when I was growing up, so it was the norm for me and my siblings, homophobia was never ok as far as my Mum was concerned. I have passed that on to my children.

I would have no qualms at all about my children being friends with children of a gay couple and by extension, I would be as friendly with the parents as I would any parents of my childrens friends.

I know it is still an issue for some though.

I know its easy for me to say, but be proud of who you are, you have nothing to be ashamed of.

Beastofburden Thu 02-Jan-14 11:29:26

As for your parents being disappointed, my experience is that a parents are often a bit hmm about whoever their DC chooses to hook up with - not earning enough, wrong race, wrong gender, doesn't get on with Dad, whatever - but it all evaporates once you produce a grandchild. Worked on my MIL, anyway (and I was the expected gender but a disappointment to her in oh so many ways....)

Ehhn Thu 02-Jan-14 11:32:50

Could you connect with a bit more of a gay network? I play rugby and most of our team is gay or bi - I'm a minority straight! Our local football team is similar. We live in a pretty rural area and it's pretty mono-cultural otherwise!
I love my team - we are a really different bunch of people, but we are all each other's greatest advocates/supports. It gives a sense of security. None of us is, in ourselves, an entirely stable, confident person - issues with weight, jobs, family, all that stuff, but together we are stronger.
Perhaps you need an external support network to give you greater strength (like scaffolding?!) p

HavantGuard Thu 02-Jan-14 11:33:11

I'm sorry that you have to put up with arseholes in the street and people at work making ignorant comments.

I can't remember who said that if life was a video game the easiest setting would be straight white male. Everything else comes with additional difficulties. Give yourself a break. Wishing your life was simpler is no crime.

It wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference to me if the parents of my DC's friends are gay. It wouldn't matter to my DC either.

ashInTheAttic Thu 02-Jan-14 11:34:38

I think people's attitudes change as they get to know you, as well, even people who are a little old-fashioned in their attitudes.

About twenty years ago, I got a phone call from my mum. "Ash, we've got new neighbours... and they're <whisper> lesbians."

Phone call a couple of months later. "Can't chat for long, Ash, I'm having coffee with Jenny from next door."

A year on. "Jenny from next door tells me they're having a baby. I just didn't know what to say."

A year on from that. "Can't chat, Ash, I'm babysitting for Jenny while she and Sue have an evening out."

And finally. "Dreadful news, Ash. Jenny and Sue are splitting up. Poor little James, what's he going to do without both his mummies in the house?"

I really hope that one day the culture of stupid will move aside and that we'll be able to focus more on things that affect our lives, rather than poking holes in people because of their sexuality. Although that said, it does seem to be my generation and older people that insist on retaining outdated views rather than younger people.

I am sorry that you have to tolerate so much negativity and so many stupid comments. I have two sets of gay friends who have children. The lesbian couple have three children, two of which have one of the couple as the biological mother, the third child's biological mother is the second female in the partnership (not very well explained, so I hope you understand what I mean). They've been together for almost 20 years, and initially received many negative comments, particularly from one of the women's direct family. Her late father never accepted the relationship, which I find sad.

The male couple are friends with a lesbian couple who wanted a child. One of them donated sperm. However, they've maintained contact and so their DS now has two mums that he lives with in the week, and two dads that he lives with at weekends. That boy gets a whole load of love from both.

As a parent, my sincere wish for my DD is to find someone she loves and who loves her. I don't care if they're fat, thin, black, white, gay or straight. I care that she's happy.

Like Rudolph, I do now challenge people that make stupid/bigoted/insensitive remarks. I see silence as giving them the impression that I agree with their idiocy.

Grennie Thu 02-Jan-14 11:36:44

Lesbophobia is alive and well in the UK - unfortunately.

It is different lesbian couples having babies. From experience with my parents, my mum's family disapproved of him, but grandchildren changed everything. With lesbian couples, the family of the one who does not give birth can see the resulting child as not part of their family.

I think you need to do 2 things OP.

1. Make sure you spend time building up lots of lesbian friendships. Het people may be supportive, but they don't truly know what it is like. Having real friends who do know, can make a massive difference.

2. Make sure you live somewhere more tolerant if you have any choice about it. Some places are much easier to be a lesbian than others.

3. When you have children, make sure you know other lesbian couples who also have children.

Good luck.

As someone who's out in most places nowadays, I think a large part of the happiness comes from not having to watch what you say. All the comments about "shoving it in people's faces" and "keep your private life private" are bollocks when it comes down to something as basic as chatting about family with neighbours ("oh, your husband's a teacher? So's my wife") or having a family photo on your desk at work. I now just take all that stuff for granted and it's much easier.

Grennie Thu 02-Jan-14 11:39:25

I agree that being closeted is very very stressful. Being somewhere where you can be open, makes things much much easier.

Fairylea Thu 02-Jan-14 11:41:58

I think the really unfortunate thing about society is that those full of hate seem to shout louder than those that are supportive and accepting.

I would like to think in this day and age that most people are completely accepting of gay people and realise it's something that can't be changed, just as someone who is straight cannot "make" themselves gay!

I think it says a lot that songs like macklemoores Same love have made it to number one in the charts and stayed there for weeks. It's mostly the younger generation downloading the music and so on so I can only hope that as some of the prejudiced older people die out their voices will be replaced by the younger lot who seem to be much more clued up.

My dd is 11 and doesn't bat an eyelid if someone is gay. She really isn't interested, let alone bothered, and that's precisely the way it should be.

MammaTJ Thu 02-Jan-14 11:47:25

My friend posted this video turning homophobia on it's head. I love it, although it is heart wrenching. Well worth a watch.

The same day he posted it, another young friend posted a picture of two young men holding hands, having recently come out to their friends (but not family yet) and there were a lot of homophobic comments from young people on there but also a lot of supportive ones too. I was a bit shocked by the negative comments because in this town, it is generally seen as cool to be gay by the teens. One young man I know actually stood up in a school assembly and announced he was gay, to great applause.

I really wish we lived in a world where people didn't judge others on whether they are gay or straight.

My own DS was only 6 when he came to me and said 'They are saying I'm gay and I don't like it'. I said if he turned out to be gay it would be fine, but to call people gay in a nasty way is too mean'. He then carried on with 'BUT I'M NOT GAY'. Fair enough, but if he did, or my DD2 did turn out to be, I would be fine with it. After a bit of dallying, DD1 seems to have settled on prefering men.

One of my close friends only came out to his parents when he turned 30 because he was worried they'd be upset about not having grandchildren the 'normal' way. His parents weren't surprised and also weren't upset but he spent about 15 years frightened of how they might react.

There are homophobes out there OP but I hope that the majority of people in this country don't even think about it. Please don't worry about others' reactions. The minority who are dicks are just that.

Elfhame Thu 02-Jan-14 11:48:38

Very true that nasty idiots shout louder. Shame that people with closed minds can't also have closed mouths.

RandyRudolf Thu 02-Jan-14 11:50:20

A thread on here recently about a mother taking her child to see the Pastor who had suggested the child go on a course to 'straighten his thoughts' made me realise just what a battle it can be for some to be accepting of other's sexuality especially when it requires someone to challenge their own religion.

BuntyPenfold Thu 02-Jan-14 11:55:34

<hugs Dixie>

Mumoftwoyoungkids Thu 02-Jan-14 11:57:23

The UK is changing very fast in terms of acceptance. My dad can remember demonstrating at university to make homosexuality legal. By the time he left work it was illegal to discriminate against someone for their sexuality.

When I was at university (late 90s) there was a thriving LBG society (no T in those days) but it wasn't really discussed outside of the university. 3 years ago I had a summer student at work who had put being treasurer of his Uni LBGT society on his CV. He was completely confident that not only would his sexuality not count against him but that having a senior role in the society would be seen as a positive thing. (And I employed him over 9 other applicants so he was right!)

Shows like Torchwood are also great. The handsome male lead ends up not with the gorgeous female lead but with the quirky-but-still-fanciable male minor character.

However, the world is not yet perfect. 10 years from now things will be much easier. And 20 years from now easier still. You just have to keep going until then.

Feminine Thu 02-Jan-14 12:06:08

thanks

when talking to my son (15) and my brother (17) they both say that at school it is now totally fine to come out as gay.

What they don't 'like' is when teens pretend not to be confused of course that is not acceptable, but it is fantastic news that they don't have a problem within their peer group.

I want to reiterate that I don't think it is up to them to make these 'rules'...just that I'm glad things are changing.

When I left school ('88) you probably would have wanted to keep quiet.

I have a few gay relatives one, ( my Aunt (88)) recently lost her partner after 50+ years... I've been worried about her.

I hope you find peace to make your life happy. You deserve it.

TwerkingNineToFive Thu 02-Jan-14 12:06:41

I hope the looks and comments you recieve don't stop you being affectionate in public. I think seeing loving gay couples is the only way to get society to fully except it.
I know you didnt choose to be gay but there are many things/people/movements to be proud of. In the 80's being gay was still illegal in some areas of the uk now we we have laws to protect everyone's right to live as they are, gay adoption and equal (ish) marriage. I'm not saying its a done deal but its getting a lot better.

Openness may not completely disarm prejudice, but it’s a good place to start. - Jason Collins (gay American basketball player)

More quotes for little bit of gay pride here

Blatherskite Thu 02-Jan-14 13:11:37

I think attitudes are changing. My DD at 3 went through a phase of telling everyone that she was going to marry Mummy. She loves me so why not? She saw nothing wrong at all with 2 women getting married which is of course the case. Daddy was a bit upset at not being chosen though wink

Don't wish for change just to make other people happy Op. The only person you should live your life for is you

Pigsmummy Thu 02-Jan-14 13:14:53

I also agree that the younger generation are refreshing with more open attitudes and I was shocked by my MIL's reaction to my best friend who is gay, I think that this is a sign for a more positive future? Hang in there and try to love yourself.

Can you socialise more with gay and lesbian friends? As others have suggested how about a weekend away to Brighton/London/Manchester?

RandyRudolf Thu 02-Jan-14 13:19:54

You should definitely visit Manchester's Gay Village as it's called whether you're gay or straight, it'a a fantastic unpretentious place.

Pigsmummy Thu 02-Jan-14 13:24:03

http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~gongsu/desiderata_textonly.html

This is good for the soul

CustardoPaidforIDSsYFronts Thu 02-Jan-14 13:24:10

or brighton

In fact I reckon we should have a mn pride meet up grin

sweetkitty Thu 02-Jan-14 13:27:28

Over Christmas dinner my Dad mentioned someone who was "one of them" in a whisper. I said oh you mean gay, were allowed to say gay at this table and we all know what it is. He was like shock my DC are 9 to 3.

DPs best friend is gay and married to a man, we just told the DC some men love men, some men love women, some women love women. They just accepted it no questions as it should be.

I have my suspicions that one of my DC might be gay and the thought of her having to hide it or be ashamed makes me so sad.

Sorry you feel like you do OP just wanted to give you done support xx

Wevet Thu 02-Jan-14 13:28:57

Very sorry you're feeling so low, OP. Don't hate yourself, whatever else -homophobia is a real, lingering, horrible problem.

Was also wondering whether a move to somewhere a bit less homophobic would help? I have lots of lesbian friends in my native city in Ireland (not a big place, but long-established, well-resourced and disproportionately big and lively gay scene) and in London, and they report fewer stares, fewer nasty remarks in the street etc. More of them are having children as well, so advancing into whole new(ish) areas of life that were traditionally straight domains. Do try to develop as strong a network of lesbian friends as possible.

I do have hope for the future. Even in the very rural area I currently live in, my toddler has regular play dates with two children with two mothers/two fathers. As he grows up, he will never labour under the delusion that everyone's straight. And he will have attended two civil partnerships (not the same people as the play dates) before the age of two!

My very best wishes for the future. Stop blaming yourself for your feelings.

HaroldTheGoat Thu 02-Jan-14 13:29:38

OP we have 2 sets of lesbian friends with children. They have lots of friends, are invited out as much as any straight couple and have very nice lives indeed. thanks

Lilka Thu 02-Jan-14 13:32:54

I understand OP <hugs>

I hated hated being gay when I was in my late teens (I thought I was abormal, weird and doomed to misery my whole life) and I didn't accept and like myself for who I was, until I was about 23/24. When my DP at the time and I held hands in the streets we would sometimes get nasty comments and it bothered me. It never really bothered DP though, which amazed me. She would respond to comments by leaning over and kissing me whereas I would be trying to walk away as quickly as my legs could carry me. Learned a lot about being balsy and thick skinned from that woman!

I've been single for nearly 20 years (I'm 47 now) now, so I don't get DP comments any more, but I have adopted, so I have to put up with the 'gay people need to accept that it's wrong for them to adopt' shit. I faced discrimination in the process to adopt my first child (mid 90's), from professionals, friends, family and acquaintances. I have worried about my kids at school, but they've all been fine, maybe because I'm single. Of course I have all the 'single mums are the cause of all societies ills' as well to contend with.

Oh honey, this is not a nice way to feel about yourself. You don't deserve to feel like this and you CAN do something about it. Attack this destructive way of seeing yourself, it is harmful.

Hate the feeling not the situation. Wouldn't you rather know you can be happy in a "less than ideal" situation instead of just changing the situation? Personally that would give me more confidence.

Be gay and proud because it's entirely fine to be gay and anyone who doesn't think so shouldn't be listened to.

I'm bi but lean much more towards women and spent a good few years hating the fact that eventually I'd have to face up to what I was, and never quite admitting it. In fact I remember hiding it and being ashamed of it as young as five years old, I'm not kidding. And then one night I was lying in bed, I was 15 and I felt suddenly so relieved because I realised that I knew there was nothing wrong with it whatsoever. And that made all the difference, I didn't have to hate myself like that. Are you sure that you only hate the negative attention- do you not also have negative feelings about gayness in general?

Things are definitely changing though. I think I could come out to anyone I know here at uni that's my age (20ish) and get a good reaction (but I won't come out, because I would see that as encouraging stigmatisation of being gay).

x2boys Thu 02-Jan-14 13:48:49

the husband of a gay friend of mine told me that at his last school [he is a deputy head teacher] they had an assembley about homosexuality he came out as did several pupils it surprised me but in a pleasant way because I could not imagine that happening when I was at school twenty odd years ago[mind you my school was very catholic!] peoples reactions are changing.

Having said that, I was at secondary in 2010 and I'm pretty sure if I'd come out or made any comment about it being okay to be gay I'd have been kicked around even more than I was. Shitty people, shitty attitudes.

OP, I am sorry that you feel this way, but you really should be glad that you were born here and now. smile 100 years ago, and you could have forgotten ever being able to publicly acknowledge your love for your girlfriend. Or you could have been born in Saudi Arabia...

I hate the way I have to correct people when they assume my DP is a man and they always pretend not to be shocked but sometimes you can tell they're thinking "oh my god, didn't have her down as a lesbian"

In fairness to them, I think you are detecting and misinterpreting their embarrassment at having made what is now considered to be a bit of a faux pas.

it's definitely a harder life and recent events (Russia!) make me worry for gay people.

Hmm, Putin / the State Duma is hardly the mouthpiece of the Russian people. I have never lived in another place where the prevailing attitude is so overwhelmingly "Live and let live; it's none of my business what Mr X does in his free time." They just don't care, as a rule. My colleague D---, who wears translucent pink tanktops and pearl earrings, is the most popular lawyer in the firm among clients and colleagues alike. smile I know many, many openly gay people here- far more than in England, come to think of it.

Of course, it is a different story in the provinces- but that is true of every country.

babybarrister Thu 02-Jan-14 14:42:06

I am not gay but am teaching my son everyone is different and should not be mocked. It can hard to stop kids from using 'gay' as an insult young weak or silly but I too get the impression that actually most younger people do not gave any issue with being gay and don't even associate it with their use of the word 'gay' as an adjective.good luck

Grennie Thu 02-Jan-14 14:58:46

themaltese - Russia has made it quite clear that they will arrest and imprison gay tourists. That means if you are gay and go their with your partner, you have to pretend not to be gay, sleep in twin beds, etc.

There is a lot of lesbophobia many people are just not aware of. It is easy to see the obvious stuff, but there is still lots about.

Onepostposy Thu 02-Jan-14 15:00:36

Unfortunately I have had to pretend all my life to be straight. I'm engaged to a man at the moment and I care for him as a person but I don't feel sexual desire for men and part of me would like to be myself but I know I never will.

I admire you for being who you are OP, I'm just not brave enough. flowers

PenguinsDontEatStollen Thu 02-Jan-14 15:08:28

Oh Dixie. Sorry you are feeling so low. Most people do not feel negative towards homosexuality/homosexual people, it's just that the knobs can be quite vocal.

Also, if you've had some negative experiences, try and remember that sometimes people aren't reacting badly to you, but feeling daft themselves. I can remember a time when someone was discussing their partner and I automatically said 'he' when responding to her. She corrected me that her partner was a woman and I suspect that there was a reaction on my face. However the face meant 'God, that was stupid of me to assume when she hadn't mentioned sex, how embarrassing', not embarrassment or negativity towards the fact that the partner was female, IYSWIM.

Your mum's question about whether lesbians could have children made me giggle a bit I admit as DD1 (4.5) asked me the same thing the other day. I must admit I glossed over the details when I said that some children, yes, had two mummies or two daddies. To her, that is utterly unremarkable. Also the idea that two women could marry (though she did take some convincing that it didn't mean she could marry her sister). Maybe it's a sign of progress? You mum is asking in middle age, my daughter is asking in reception?

have not read the whole thread, but here's my twopenneth. move to Heaton in Newcastle - it's a very gay friendly town. I lived there with my dp when I was tipping the velvet - I had a dc who we were raising as a couple and he went to a primary school with an openly gay head, who later married the openly gay head of the other local primary and the head teacher of the local comp is a quietly openly gay woman. Many of the families are gay couples and some are two gay daddies and two gay mammies co-parenting. There is a huge social mix in the area. It's just fab.

Pipbin Thu 02-Jan-14 15:20:49

I've only skim read the thread but I just wanted to add that I think people are becoming much more tolerant than they were.
For example - one of the most loved, middle of the road, friendly, safe TV programs; Great British Bake Off; is hosted by an out lesbian.

Also, I teach reception and a few of the children in my class have asked if boys can marry boys or girls marry girls and I have just answered a plain yes. They go away happy with that answer.
We also have a number of families with same sex parents and no one seems to care.

There are wankers in every wall of life. My husband got called 'gay' in the street a number of times even though he was with me!

Lambzig Thu 02-Jan-14 15:21:56

Dixie, I agree that it's the idiots who are quite vocal. Most people hearing the homophobic comment will be thinking "what a dick", but social conventions sometimes stop us saying something out loud, particularly in large groups. I know I have been guilty of keeping quiet in the past while quietly planning to avoid that person in the future. Perhaps your comments on this thread will make me braver next time, but do take heart that the majority will not be agreeing with the homophobic comment.

I am not gay, but have in my fairly conventional social circle, gay parents of both sexes, so hopefully my children will grow up thinking nothing of any differences.

MardyBra Thu 02-Jan-14 15:24:23

posy What a sad situation. Are you in a particular country where you are unable to come out for fear of persecution? If you are in the UK, however, surely it is better to live your life freely and openly rather than being married to a man you don't truly love.

Onepostposy Thu 02-Jan-14 15:26:42

No, I'm in the UK smile I don't think of it as sad, I think coming out as a lesbian would just cause so much distress to my dad and mockery from others and I just feel there's too much to lose. As it is I have opted for the 'safe' life of husband and kids and I half fool myself at times I'm straight but then I fall for a woman (again!) and know I'm not.

lisad123everybodydancenow Thu 02-Jan-14 15:29:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MardyBra Thu 02-Jan-14 15:31:39

sad Are you sure your dad would be that distressed though. A friend of mine was afraid of coming out to his parents (northern, working class, used to make homophobic jokes, 20 years ago, so less tolerant times). But actually they have been amazingly accepting.

Being straight, I can't imagine what you're going through, but surely it's better to try and achieve true happiness for yourself than worry about what other people think.

kotinka Thu 02-Jan-14 15:33:40

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Onepostposy Thu 02-Jan-14 15:37:58

Mardy, that is the worst thing, he loves me and he'd definitely support me, but inwardly he'd feel so uncomfortable and upset, I can't do that to him. Also, he wants grandchildren (I know you can have children as a lesbian but he disagrees with this, so do a lot of people I know. It's so sad.)

ProfondoRosso Thu 02-Jan-14 15:39:07

I'm so sorry you feel this way, Dixie.

I'm not gay, but my DSis is. She is 26 and only came out when she was 24, after several relationships with men. She's had plenty of grief from idiots shouting horrible, homophobic insults at her and her lovely GF, or taking pictures of them kissing. But, in the latter situation, if this happens in a pub or anywhere similar, she informs the staff and asks that those people be asked to leave. And the staff always oblige and apologise profusely. People who are tolerant and open-minded are far more common these days than bigoted idiots. It's just a shame the idiots are the ones who are always shouting loudest.

You have nothing to be ashamed of. You do blend in, to the majority of people. But the humiliation from idiots is a horrible thing to go through. Would you consider counselling, to work on feeling more at ease in yourself, and less vulnerable to homophobic crap?

DamnBamboo Thu 02-Jan-14 15:42:32

Oh OP, your post makes me feel so sad!

It is not a non-issue at all and homophobia is still around sadly.

I don't have any real advice other than to say, as you well know, if anybody judges you based on your sexual orientation, then they are not people you need in your life.

Please don't feel ashamed... be proud of who you are.

On another note, my eldest boy has in the past come home asking the meaning of words referring to gay people on the playground (he is only 8).

We preach total acceptance and explain that sometimes it's mum and mum, or dad and dad, or mum and dad (you get what i mean) and that it really doesn't matter. Anyway, he's never known differently and is always asking me if I can make friends with a 'mum and a mum' and a 'dad and a dad' s he thinks it's cool that men can love men and women can love women.

So, if you lived near me, we'd be your friends smile - he'd love to be.

FortyDoorsToNowhere Thu 02-Jan-14 15:47:33

posy does your partner know this.

Op I know it's easier said than done but ignore the nasty comments.

ProfondoRosso Thu 02-Jan-14 15:48:11

Think I've got something in my eye, DamnBamboo. Your DS sounds like an awesome wee guy.

Curioustiger Thu 02-Jan-14 15:52:56

This is easy for me to say OP, as a straight woman, but I do wonder if you might feel happier if you were more open about your sexuality, rather than less.

At my very large global employer, we are mandated to take an online course each year to detect 'unconscious bias' in our treatment of others, whether it be on the grounds of gender, race, sexual preference, whatever. As part of the test we have to self declare against various criteria anonymously, and assess our own levels of happiness at work. The test administrators then work out at a population level which groups are generally happy and successful at work (the idea being that my employer should focus on the ones that aren't, as their potential is not being fulfilled). So for example I would be in several groups including 'white European', 'straight' etc. Last year I saw the results and across 100,000+ employees in basically every country, the consistent trend was that people who self-identify as homosexual but do not declare it at work were the least happy in their role, according to their own assessment of happiness. They were much less happy than self-identifying gay men and women who are out in the workplace, and also less happy than other minority groups eg people with disabilities.

It's not my place to advise you to come out to your colleagues but I do wonder if perhaps you might get a better reception than you're expecting if you did?

ouryve Thu 02-Jan-14 16:00:15

So long as we live in a world in which people think it's acceptable to attempt to insult me by calling me a "fucking lesbian" and in which "that's so gay" is used to dismiss something, I wouldn't describe you as self indulgent, OP.

Onepostposy Thu 02-Jan-14 16:01:53

Forty of course he doesn't confused

Ledkr Thu 02-Jan-14 16:05:09

The only people who would be so rude and ignorant are morons anyway so you wouldn't want to be bothered by any of their ridiculous comments.
Most normal people aren't like this.
That said its easy for me to say that as I'm not directly affected by it.
If it wasn't your sexuality this type of person would find something else to be vile about I expect.
Hang in there xx

motherinferior Thu 02-Jan-14 16:06:07

Trashcan, I know that school and those families (and they probably include my sister's family too!)

OP, I am sorry you're feeling so up against entrenched homophobia. FWIW, my daughters are at two different schools where several kids have same-sex parents - and DD1's school is packed with posters about homophobia too ('love your inner lesbian'). Young people are coming out at school. It's lovely to see.

I'm not going to say "nobody pays any attention" as that would be a glib lie. But the changes will keep happening. Really they will.

motherinferior Thu 02-Jan-14 16:09:16

Posy, I can't help feeling that you're making the wrong decision...

Booboostoo Thu 02-Jan-14 16:11:23

I know exactly what you mean OP. I am bi and it makes a huge difference to how I am treated by complete strangers if I am with a different sex partner than with a same sex partner. Walking down the street holding hands with a man or kissing/cuddling in a public place, you either get ignored or even get 'awww how lovely is that!' type of looks. Similar behaviour, even in a big city like London, can get anything from frowns to comments about what a shame it is to waste two good women like that (!!!).

It is so much easier for me to be with a man, not that it has affected my actual choices of partner, but I do feel for you.

Some places are safer than others. I worked in academia and I found the University environment on the whole much more liberal and tolerant. I don't blame people who are discriminated against for staying in environments that are more tolerant and accepting.

kickassangel Thu 02-Jan-14 16:16:24

Don't know if you're interested or it would be any help, but there are some serious academic papers about these issues and why you are absolutely right to feel this way.

Queering the citizenship by Shane Phelan is one. It is about how society shouldn't just accept gay people, but should shift its entire self image to see gay as part of normal. Until we redefine normal as including gay then we aren't really being accepting.

MardyBra Thu 02-Jan-14 16:20:34

"he loves me and he'd definitely support me, but inwardly he'd feel so uncomfortable and upset, I can't do that to him"

Your posts have really touched a chord with me. If your father loves you that much, surely he wouldn't want you to be trapped into an ultimately loveless marriage. Maybe start another thread to discuss it, if it is something you would like to explore (to avoid the hijack of the OP's equally valid concerns). I wish you much luck. flowers

Onepostposy Thu 02-Jan-14 16:21:46

mother thank you flowers I am honestly fine with my decision, though. I've chosen conventionality over passion/desire, is all.

Preciousbane Thu 02-Jan-14 16:23:00

It should be a non issue, sorry your having a hard time of it. I suppose knowing that your parents are not totally comfortable with it must feed the insecurity of it all for you.

My Mother certainly has prejudices but she had a mate, a man who was gay from the late 1960's. He was just totally fab and I have never batted an eyelid about anyone being gay.

Everyone wants to be loved so I'm glad you have found your life partner. I always wonder if some homophobic people are actually scared of their own feelings, bit like in the film American Beauty.

Onepostposy Thu 02-Jan-14 16:24:01

Mardy - sorry grin cross post, I don't feel able to start a thread as everyone would just tell me IABU and probably unfair to future DH, but I do love him in a way, I just don't really feel excited about sleeping with him.

Breaking my engagement would mean sacrificing my life, I just can't. My dad would support me in whatever I did, but secretly it would break his heart.

PolterTurkey Thu 02-Jan-14 16:50:47

Dixie (((hugs))) I'm so sorry you feel like this, and I hope you get some comfort and strength from all the wise words on this thread flowers

TiggyOBE Thu 02-Jan-14 16:59:05

Not easy being LGBT. Especially if you're not one of the fashionable ones.

But things are getting easier and easier.

Big hugs hun.

DixieGoesToHollywood Thu 02-Jan-14 17:11:08

posy I really do see your point because I've considered doing what you're doing myself, many times. I've been in relationships with nice men I didn't love and I'd kind of accepted that was how life was going to be.

Then I met my amazing DP and honestly I couldn't be happier, because whilst I believe the outside world is very tough and I do struggle with it a lot, I try to remember that the most important thing is the person I will getting into bed with every night and raising children with and I am very very lucky in that my DP is ace. Honestly, she is absolutely amazing, the kindest, funniest most gorgeous person I've ever met and she treats me like an absolute queen.

Please be a little bit selfish and make the right decision for you.

DixieGoesToHollywood Thu 02-Jan-14 17:12:12

Oh I do live in a big city with a lot of gay friends which does help a bit! Still get the jitters when I have to step outside the community though!

GrumpyRedhead Thu 02-Jan-14 17:21:08

One, just wanted to quickly offer some support, my situation isn't a million miles from yours and I figure knowing you aren't the only one to have made that choice might help thanks

Onepostposy Thu 02-Jan-14 17:23:49

Thank you flowers Don't think though that I secretly cry at night, I really am happy with the choices I have made and the life I have.

I wanted to be a lawyer when I was at school but I couldn't pursue that career for a myriad of complex reasons, so I went into teaching instead. I've done well at it and am happy with that choice - this is similar, I suppose. smile

snowed Thu 02-Jan-14 17:32:26

Some narrow-minded people think it's OK to spout verbal abuse to anyone who doesn't fit one of the few pigeonholes in their tiny minds.

It's not you, it's them thanks

ColinButterfly Thu 02-Jan-14 17:40:46

It's lovely you've found happiness in your relationship and I hope it spills over into your overall well being.

I personally don't think it's about blending in as about less segregation/division really so your being out can help that. I have had a couple of flings with women. I thought I would really freak out about it, but I didn't, I enjoyed them and realised I like men and women. At this time I would have a relationship with a woman but I never meet any because I don't do the scene and have no desire to. I live in a city and have my favourite pubs and bars but they aren't the ones my lesbian and gay friends go to - and those ones are horrible and the kinds of places I've been had a go at for applying lipgloss as I am a typically feminine type and am drawn to feminine types myself (I'm being v clumsy here, sorry). So I don't think you've anything to hate yourself for, I think what you have sounds lovely. I'll keep on with the boys for now.

I'm glad you started this thread and I think I saw another one from you earlier because there's not much traffic in the lesbian/gay boards and I don't do lesbian forums because I find them a bit limiting in terms of being defined in such a whole hearted way by sexuality.

NottinghamLass Thu 02-Jan-14 18:03:55

Colin, if you want to meet other lesbians or biwomen, you need to socialise where they do. Most cities have women only sports groups that have a lot of lesbians and bi women involved or cafe or pub nights. Ring up your local switchboard and ask them. If you are in Nottingham pm me.

Many lesbians don't like or go to gay pubs and bars, there are in cities always alternatives.

FortyDoorsToNowhere Thu 02-Jan-14 18:25:24

Posy I just want to give you a hug, it must be very hard to suppress a strong emotional need.

I hope one day you will find the courage to allow your self the relationship with someone who is right for you.

32flavours Thu 02-Jan-14 18:29:25

Op I'm sorry you feel this way. I do think the more "out" you are the easier it is though, even though initially it's a hard thing to do. I've found that being completely open with people has allowed me to experience more acceptance and in turn made me more accepting of myself. Yes occasionally when I'm walking down the street holding my dp's hand some idiot may shout something homophobic at us. In the past it would really upset me, but now it's honestly water off a duck's back. Having received an overwhelming amount of support from friends, family, colleagues and strangers, I am able to dismiss the odd homophobe as an anomaly in an otherwise accepting and tolerant society.

HermioneWeasley Thu 02-Jan-14 18:31:17

I am sure I've been the subject of some pretty unpleasant comments behind my back, but I have had to come out over and over again at work because nobody seems to find it interesting enough to discuss.

You need to get to a place where you just don't care what others will think or say. My DM is fine, my DF is a massive cunt about it still and PIL just don't talk about it!

We have DCs at school (primary) and no issues so far. We are also part of a rainbow family network

Good luck on your journey

neunundneunzigluftballons Thu 02-Jan-14 18:48:04

Posey my good male friend was terrified coming out to his parents. Dad is a man's man and had made disparaging remarks in the past. His mum said she always knew and his dad took a while to get his head around it but was always totally accepting. It is amazing what love for a child does.

Onepostposy Thu 02-Jan-14 18:52:15

I know he would accept me. It isn't that I'm worried about.

It's that he would secretly, quietly, be unhappy and worried, and besides it isn't just my dad. It's my fiancé, my future children, my work, friends and home.

I would lose them all and I don't WANT to lose them all, I am happy, the only area of my life that is 'unfulfilled' is sexual. And I can fantasise wink

I doubt I'd meet a woman anyway, I've never so much as kissed a woman and I am honestly content with things as they are, I guess it depends on how important sex is to you and to be honest it isn't as important as all that to me.

NottinghamLass Thu 02-Jan-14 18:52:25

I am glad to hear that neun. It is lovely when that happens and it has happened to friends of mine. But some parents do reject their children when they tell they are lesbian or gay. Not all accept it.

NottinghamLass Thu 02-Jan-14 18:53:18

Isn't being unfulfilled sexually a pretty important area in a relationship?

WilsonFrickett Thu 02-Jan-14 18:55:56

You must have seen the Ash Beckham Ted talk?

If not, it's worth a look. I know it's hard. I wish it wasn't. But I hope that you do know behind every loudmouth bigot are a hundred more people who actually don't give a shiny shit what you do in bed grin and who would be cheering you on if they knew you. Keep on keeping on OP. thanks

Onepostposy Thu 02-Jan-14 18:59:02

It is for some Nottingham - I don't have a very high sex drive so for me personally it is not.

kennyp Thu 02-Jan-14 19:02:04

i;m so sorry you feel this way. like other people have said - it could be a generation thing? a girl i know and her partner have had a baby (for e.g.) but my friends mum always says "nicky and her ... friend ... are bringing the baby over". even though i know nicky plus friend plus baby.

i hope it helps you a bit that you've written it down here? or other places too? these narrow minded homophobic knobheads can just piss off. although unfortunately the gits are bloody everywhere.

Treat your sexuality as a decent person filter. Anyone who is bothered by you being gay isn't worth knowing.

Aussiemum78 Thu 02-Jan-14 19:05:00

I'm surprised that so much intolerance still exists. I think where I live is mostly tolerant.

Onepostposy. One of my friends was in a relationship with a (secretly) gay man. She knew something wasn't right, but had no idea why. It destroyed her self esteem and broke her heart that he lied to her. I understand your dilemma but it's unfair to dupe your fiancé. Don't come out if you don't want to, but please dont get married.

Onepostposy Thu 02-Jan-14 19:07:50

This is why it's something I never talk about. My fiancé and I are very happy, I think I had better hide the thread now as I know people are trying to help. But I have never slept with a woman and nor will I, as far as the world is concerned I am a heterosexual woman and truth be told that's largely how I see myself, if that makes any sense. It's just deep inside of me I sometimes feel sexual desire for a woman in a way I don't for men. That is not something I'm going to sacrifice my future over.

Wrt societies expectations have a google of heteronormativity - you might find it interesting. Celia Kitzinger's group have published quite a lot in this area.

GimmeDaBoobehz Thu 02-Jan-14 19:55:13

I don't blame you for hating it, because people can be so judgmental over the stupidest of things.

What I can say though is if you weren't gay it would be something else as there is always something someone is going to pick on you for, no matter what.

Ginger hair? Lets make fun of her.
Gay? Lets make fun of her.
Is overweight? Lets make fun of her.
Is foreign? Lets make fun of her.
Is disabled? Lets make fun of her.

No matter what people will always be picked on.

I was picked on for being visually impaired when I was younger. I am pretty sure people still make comments now but it doesn't bother me the same now I am an adult. It happens less often too, which makes it a little easier to bare. I also had rumours spread about me that weren't true by my ex partner that I was promiscuous and it almost turned into a self fulfilling prophecy.

My sister used to be picked on for being super thin.

My friend was picked on because he didn't have a father figure in his life.

Another person I knew got picked on because he simply looked 'nerdy'.

Some people aren't happy unless they are putting someone into a box and ripping the piss out of them.

I think you have to be happy with yourself and then others either are happy for you/with you or they just simply merge into the background and don't seem to even be picked up on the radar.

I hope your partner helps you with your self esteem.

Hold her hand when people stare, show them defiance. These people don't like confidence. Show it, even if it doesn't feel genuine. Soon it becomes real because you believe it yourself.

CaptainSinker Thu 02-Jan-14 20:17:21

Poor you, it sounds like things are weighing on you a bit. My best friend is bi and we were talking about this today, she feels annoyed that she has to "come out" when she is seeing a woman in a way that straight people don't have to feel they are making a pronouncement any time they mention their partner.

I just wanted to say that even though I have a bi best friend and a much liked and valued lesbian work friend I still sometimes probably look a bit awkward when I realise someone is gay when we are chatting. This comes from being aware that this dropping in "I am gay" comments can be awkward, so I feel hyper-aware of not wanting to make that person feel awkward so I probably have a flash of "am I making them feel comfortable?" panic... causing awkwardness! I am just rambling on to show that those awkward moments may come from a good place. It is just a bit shit that people still have to "come out"...

My colleague and her partner have 2 lovely kids and have never to their knowledge had a negative response from anyone.

EugenesAxe Thu 02-Jan-14 20:39:42

I can't say much except I wouldn't give a flying fuck you were gay if I knew you, and sooner or later you'll meet some people that are the same.

Homophobia is alive and well and it's operating at subliminal levels. For example, my son, when asked what he wanted to be at the scratch nativity, said "An angel!"; a bit later I reconfirmed (when thinking about the outfit) then threw in "Or you could be a king; we've got that crown thing you could wear.' PIL, who had been silent during talk of angels, vociferously chimed in with 'Oh yes, that would be better wouldn't it? Why don't you be a king?' Then DS reiterated his desire to be an angel and I went off to rustle up a costume. DD wanted to be a shepherd.

I keep thinking that it's fairly well agreed that sexuality is nature, and if any of my children ARE gay, I do not want them growing up thinking what they like and value is 'wrong'. It must lead to a crippling lack of self-worth.

EugenesAxe Thu 02-Jan-14 20:44:07

Although to be fair I've been a bit prejudiced by implying that gay boys will like more traditionally girly things, which of course may not be the case.

SolemnHour Thu 02-Jan-14 20:45:04

Op, sorry to hear you feel this way, just want to say I know it's not the same at all but I only realised a year ago that I was bisexual I'd spent a long time wishing it away, denying my attraction to women, OK its much easier for me as to the outside world I look straight I'm married with children but I'm more gay than bi ifykwim, my attraction is mainly to women and I hate that. only my husband knows I'm bi and I can't imagine sharing it with anyone else from what I've seen and heard a lot of women dislike bisexuals in case they fancy them it changes the dynamics of frienships. I do love my husband though emotionally he is what I need, the family set up is what I need and we have a good sex life but he's the only man I would be interested in, like a pp said for everything else there is fantasy but its crippling at times.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar Thu 02-Jan-14 21:02:25

Gimme, I have a bi friend who is ginger, overweight and struggles with RSI which means she has a lot of pain and time off work. Her self-confidence is very low. sad I love her to bits and she's one of the nicest, kindest and most intelligent people I know. She's never had a partner of either sex and I'm pretty sure she's never been kissed, even (she's 30 now). I really hope she meets someone someday soon and gets a bit of well-deserved happiness. She'd like kids and she'd be an amazing mother.

You're absolutely right that people pick a label and use it to lambast someone. She has had abuse shouted at her in the street for the way she looks. Whether it's for being ginger, or having the audacity to jog when she's a larger woman with big boobs, or for wearing mannish clothes and therefore wankers assume she's gay and shout 'dyke'...arseholes pick something and shout it at her. angry She really is gorgeous and has the most amazing hair. I want to change the world too, OP!

I hope I am managing to instil in my children that being gay is as normal as being straight, and that tolerance is so, so important.

As a straight person myself, i do worry that I might get it wrong, in how I teach my DCs. But they've had a few good role models, including the deputy head at their primary school, who's such a lovely bloke.

But hopefully, they'll pick up on my attitude that I don't care if someone is gay or straight because it's none of my business. If a person is nice, I'll like them, if they're not nice, I won't. But being nice or not doesn't have anything to do with someone's sexuality, so I don't really see that it's relevant. I treat people as I personally would want to be treated: fairly.

OP I am sorry you are having a hard time of it, I sincerely hope you can find a way to come to terms with it. You and your DP sound nice and would certainly be welcomed in my home, and the homes of my friends. Not all straight people are nasty about gay people. smile

LaGuardia Thu 02-Jan-14 21:47:15

Thankfully not everyone is as cruel as the nasty people you have encountered. Hopefully when you do have children, the new circles you will move it will be more accepting. Good luck.

Ev1lEdna Thu 02-Jan-14 22:05:10

*What I can say though is if you weren't gay it would be something else as there is always something someone is going to pick on you for, no matter what.
Ginger hair? Lets make fun of her.
Gay? Lets make fun of her.
Is overweight? Lets make fun of her.
Is foreign? Lets make fun of her.
Is disabled? Lets make fun of her.
No matter what people will always be picked on*

It's so true and so sad. Really we should feel sorry for people that they need to be this way towards others but the reality is this crap hurts, even if you know people judge and are cruel.

But, OP, it isn't actually everyone and some people will be happy to know about your life and relationship and be happy for you. I can't stand homophobia or any other kind of prejudice it is unpleasant and unnecessary and I felt so sad for you reading your initial post. You have someone you love and who loves you back and you should never feel bad about that. As you can see from this thread Dixie there are so many people in the world who really don't feel the hatred and just want people to be allowed to be happy in their own way.

GuybrushThreepwoodMP Thu 02-Jan-14 22:43:10

Oh I am so sorry that you are the victim of such prejudice. Ignorant fucking bigoted assholes.
I hope that yours and my children will be the first generation to whom such prejudice is just utterly bizarre and not something which is ever EVER accepted by the society in which they live. Fingers crossed, eh? In the meantime I hope you find a way to surround yourself by people with who don't see homosexuality as something to be accepted and tolerated but just another type of sexuality within the range of totally normal and wonderful. People like that are out there. We are, I promise.

Catsize Thu 02-Jan-14 23:07:14

We are two women raising children in a small northern village. We have been very lucky with 99% of folk here. We still wouldn't hold hands in public etc. though. And only just getting to be okay checking into hotels etc. Until we feel we can hold hands in the street, I guess there is a way to go.
posy, the deceit to your future husband is awful. Suspect most women on here would say they wished their husbands had been honest with them about their homosexuality than 'fantasised' about sleeping with men when making love to them, if in fact it turned out they were gay. I know what you are saying, but actually you are being quite selfish (dare I say cowardly?). Better to be single and not upset your parents than deceive this poor unsuspecting chap. Can only hope you are not having a church wedding or something! When I was in my early 20s, an older person said you should never compromise re:who you marry. Pretty sound advice. One day you will be swept off your feet by a woman and you may have kids by then. Please think so carefully about this.
OP, not sure how old you are, but things get better and easier as you get older and more confident in who you are. I found coming out very very hard. To myself was the hardest. And as someone said upthread, you have to come out almost daily after that, to all sorts if random people. We are going to have to start correcting those who think we are friends, sisters, mother and daughter (?!) pretty soon, or the children will wonder why we don't and what there might be to be ashamed of.

Onepostposy Thu 02-Jan-14 23:13:45

The 'poor unsuspecting chap' is a man I love and who loves me. We are happy. Our marriage will be a happy one.

I will never be swept off my feet by anybody - I rarely meet any gay women, and I'm hardly going to be looking. I certainly wouldn't wreck my children's lives by walking off into the sunset with a woman, if I wanted to do that I'd be looking now, I don't want to.

It isn't just because of my dad. He is a big consideration yes, but there are hundreds of other factors, which I won't bother going into.

InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream Thu 02-Jan-14 23:19:52

There is still homophobia, but there are also lots and lots of us who don't think ANY differently of a gay couple than a straight one. And lots of us are constantly reminding other people that being gay is no different to other differences in people, such as hair colour, and that gay people are normal too. So lots of a straight people are there supporting you and sticking up for you, even if you don't know it

tanukiton Thu 02-Jan-14 23:28:17

Saintly's 'Treat your as a decent person filter. Anyone who is bothered by ** isn't worth knowing.' This works on soo many levels. Less ignorant people in your life.

InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream Thu 02-Jan-14 23:30:03

posy I feel for you but I can't agree that you're doing the right thing. This decision could ruin the rest of your life and the rest of your husband's life. Living a lie is NEVER a good idea. You're a lesbian. That's fine! You shouldn't have to lose your job, friends or home. There's more support out there than you think.

ChestyNutRoastingOnAnOpenFire Thu 02-Jan-14 23:31:25

Dreadful that homophobia still exists.
Think my area is very tolerant of others sexuality.

Who someone sleeps with isn't even a consideration to me.

Sounds like you have a lovely DP thanks

Onepostposy Thu 02-Jan-14 23:33:31

With respect, it is my life and I am quite content.

I have never even considered coming out as a lesbian - I don't consider myself to be gay, at all. I love my fiancé but I do not find him or any other man for that matter sexually attractive.

I have no desire to marry, set up home with or seek a relationship with a woman.

notthefirstagainstthewall Thu 02-Jan-14 23:43:03

TBH in a society that still thinks fat/hairy legs/armpits/pubes on a women are crimes against society you haven't got much of a hope.
Best bet is to do what feels right . No one wants to know someone who has an agenda.
Be yourself, do it well and people will accept you.

InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream Thu 02-Jan-14 23:43:49

posy of course it's your life and you can do exactly what you want. It's none of my business, but I can't NOT try to stop someone making the biggest mistake of their life. Is marrying a man when you are actually a lesbian a fair and reasonable thing to do? With the best will in the world these things have a habit of coming out in time, and then bang! Your husband's marriage will have been a lie. Of course I see why you want to do it, but please don't.

Onepostposy Thu 02-Jan-14 23:51:13

Inspace, I am very, very happy. I would go as far as to say I've never been happier. Sexual desire is a small part of a marriage - mutual friendship, respect and love matter as well. My fiancé is an attractive man and I tell him so. He is very loved and valued.

Even if I was not engaged, I would not be seeking a relationship with a woman - I am explaining this because people seem to think I have duped a poor man into marrying me when I am snogging women behind his back: I'm not, it isn't like that at all.

This is life, real life, not the movies, and to get what you want you do have to compromise, just as I did career wise. It wasn't possible or practical for me to go into law, so I went into teaching and I am happy teaching. It isn't possible or practical for me to seek relationships with women so I am seeking one with a man.

I really don't consider myself 'a lesbian', I suppose: I have never slept with a woman, never kissed one, never been in a relationship with one. And nor will I smile

'Being true to myself' would bring nothing but heartache to those around me and to me, as well, so why bother? What would I gain? Nothing. What would I lose? Everything. I know people like to romanticise but there is nothing romantic about hurting people, seeing your dreams destroyed and losing everything you value - because of fleeting fancies? Hardly.

Perhaps in another time and place I could have sought relations with women openly but here and now I cannot and will not ever do so.

HereIsMee Fri 03-Jan-14 00:01:00

I'm sorry that you feel that way OP. I think on one level you might be internalising the hatred but also there are still some very backward thinking people out there.

I came out as a lesbian around the time DS16 was a baby but quite a few people noticed before I allowed myself to be me. It was important in my 20s but now I'm more concerned on other parts of my life.

I think homophobia is very real and alive (waves to my conspiracy theory stalker trolls) I have put up with all sorts because I didn't have supportive family or friends at first. It was also very hard raising DS sometimes amongst bigots who didn't feel comfortable with me being me. The latest being stalked by a few people who believe gays are brainwashed by lizard people. I think it's some kind of religious conspiracy theory. I just do my best to avoid people like that.

Years later I have friends who love and care about me, a son and some family who are supportive. I decided to stay single despite two relationships that nearly ended up with us cohabiting. I may consider it again this year. I hate some of the negative things I have experienced but have to say I haven't some straight and gay people who helped me feel like someone worthwhile.

I suggest you surround yourself with positive people as you can't easily change the views of ignorant people. Also the whole man woman thing can be annoying but some people do seem to find it difficult to grasp the concept if same sex attraction and also the whole spectrum of female identity. Just concentrate on what makes her beautiful to you. I'm not sure where you live but it might be a good idea to immerse yourself in the LGBT community until you feel stronger.

InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream Fri 03-Jan-14 00:04:54

It's not a fleeting fancy, it's who you are. Why is it not possible for you to seek a relationship with a woman? The OP is doing it, as are millions of others. I, and many others, see being gay as just another version of normal, and this is an increasing trend. And I'm straight. If you are attracted to women, not men, as you have freely admitted, then it would be entirely possible for you to follow that course without destroying anything or anyone. I just find it heartbreaking that you can't follow your true desires. But I wish you luck with whatever you decide

Onepostposy Fri 03-Jan-14 00:05:55

You don't understand at all space, and I really have no desire to get into it. Please don't tell me who I am: I am far more than who I am attracted to.

Onepostposy Fri 03-Jan-14 00:06:31

Apologies space, that sounded far ruder than I intended it to.

Onepostposy Fri 03-Jan-14 00:14:21

I will try my best to explain.

So (aged 32) I come out as gay; I deal with the shock and the upset from my fiancé, family and friends. My dad loves me and will love me no matter what but secretly is sad, ashamed and distressed. My colleagues gossip, my friends gasp and raise their eyebrows, my distant relatives smirk and whisper.

I lose my companion, friend and rock in my fiancé, then I lose the house (can't afford it on one salary) and many of my friends (mutual ones with DP) and probably my beloved horses, as I'd need to move to rented accommodation and couldn't afford them.

And I try to find a woman - how? smile In my experience, the LGB scene is fairly closed off; I have two lesbian friends who only ever appear to socialise with other lesbians!

And let's just say I DO meet a woman - would it ever be the same? Would I find true love, or more likely, would my sexual needs be met but none of my others?

Please, please believe me and don't be upset on my account. Even if an angel presented themselves to me right now and offered me the chance to live openly as a lesbian with NO prejudice, I wouldn't. I imagine DP fantasises about models or dancers but he isn't going to get one grin he's got me. And I've got him. I really am perfectly happy - I only wanted to post to say I knew where the OP was coming from.

ninah Fri 03-Jan-14 00:15:00

I get how it's easier to be straight than gay but not how it's easier to be a teacher than a lawyer

Onepostposy Fri 03-Jan-14 00:18:32

I didn't say it was easier, ninah, I said that originally I had wanted a career in law but I compromised. The reason for this was because my dad was seriously ill at the time and I decided to return home to care for him and do a PGCE rather than complete law training.

In other words it was a compromise based on what worked best for me - just as this is smile

ninah Fri 03-Jan-14 00:20:44

well it's never too late to retrain wink

Onepostposy Fri 03-Jan-14 00:25:05

Except I don't want to because I am happy teaching smile just like I am happy with DP smile

Oh OP. And posy [hugs]
Being queer in any way is hard, isn't it? I don't know what it's like to be gay and face those horrible homophobes, but I imagine it must be so scary sad
At least I can pass for heterosexual and thus fly under the radar.

Posy, you do what makes you and your DP happy. I actually envy you a little bit, I wish I could have a relationship like yours!

InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream Fri 03-Jan-14 00:32:34

posy No I don't understand. Especially how you can lie so immensely to your family and the the man you love. Sorry.

Onepostposy Fri 03-Jan-14 00:35:12

No, you don't, you're right, so perhaps better just to leave it there. I take it that you share all your sexual fantasies with your family then, because if you don't, then according to you that is lying, is it not? That's all being with a woman is: a sexual fantasy.

How I do wish I hadn't said anything!

ninah Fri 03-Jan-14 00:39:00

Well that's OK then. Like you I have priorities that are not sex, I can relate to that.

ninah Fri 03-Jan-14 00:40:23

That was to your previous post, btw.

Onepostposy Fri 03-Jan-14 00:40:55

No worries, ninah smile

kotinka Fri 03-Jan-14 00:55:35

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fanjofarrow Fri 03-Jan-14 00:57:15

Sorry to hear that you're having a tough time, OP. Homophobia is disgusting. You've nothing to be ashamed of. There are idiots with bad attitudes out there, as you're obviously all too aware, but there are plenty of decent people who will happily accept you for who you are without question. Don't let the bastards grind you down!

I think I understand, posy. I think you can love someone and want to be with them forever but not necessarily feel as strongly about them sexually as you do someone else. One person might be with a man and have stronger sexual feelings for other men but stay with the man they love. Another might be with a man and have stronger sexual feelings for women but stay with the man they love. What's the point in throwing away so much that makes a person happy for the sake of sexual feelings?

DailyMailGail Fri 03-Jan-14 01:00:08

Gay used to mean HAPPY, then it changed to homosexual. Why not have it mean both?

To the OP ---- X

JollySantersSelectionBox Fri 03-Jan-14 01:01:43

So sorry to hear you are struggling, op. but please don't hide away. I know people make stupid twattish comments ignorantly but it is getting better little by little.

When we asked my best friend and his partner to be my DS's godfathers the Padre told us he wasn't comfortable with it, and a few family members said they wouldn't come as they didn't agree with my son having next of kin as two men.

We chose a naming ceremony in Brighton. Those that cared not a shit but for my DS's happiness and the goddaddies attended. It was a glorious day. They are the only two true constants in my DS's life - they remember every birthday, Christmas and visit regularly.

Last year at a gathering my Aunty apologized for not attending - she had just been through a handover of a foster child in her charge to a lesbian couple. She was worried about stigmas, bullying at school, no one turning up for parties etc. She then said that in her mind sanity finally ensued and she'd weighed up the risk of this happening against a child receiving the warmth and love of two deeply caring and intelligent women. She said she was sorry for mentioning her prejudices and could see how much my DS adored his GD's. And my Uncle told her to get a grip. grin

Last month I was on my weekend off at a gay comedy night, at the table in front were two girls in a relationship (we know this because they got heckled by the resident comedienne - they had the same first name too so she was right off on one) They had come out for the evening with both sets of mums and dads. A proper family night out. One of my older friends commented that this was something he'd never have seen in his twenties. It felt wonderful. I was all squiffy, and a bit pissed. And I got chatted up so I was totally feeling the love. grinwine

Try and ignore the small minded twunts and live your life the way you want to. X

MardyBra Fri 03-Jan-14 01:04:26

posy. Just out of interest, is religion a factor in your friends' and family's potential reaction to your sexuality.

neunundneunzigluftballons Fri 03-Jan-14 01:27:18

Aw shit nottingham that breaks my heart to hear about parents being difficult for their gay children. I could not imagine that world it makes me sad.

DixieGoesToHollywood Fri 03-Jan-14 01:40:15

More thanks for all the kind comments! I am so happy in my life at the moment with wonderful DP grin grin, I just need to get over this feeling of being worried and ashamed (I do think part of the problem is internalised feelings of shame and guilt about being gay) and then life will be pretty much perfect.

posy I do get where you're coming from and I totally respect your choice to stay with your DF if you think it will make you happy long term.

MardyBra Fri 03-Jan-14 01:49:04

"I do think part of the problem is internalised feelings of shame and guilt about being gay"

Oh, Dixie. That makes me so sad. Seriously - why would you feel this way?

Recently I had to explain to DS that some people were homophobic. Having been brought up with gay godparents and other friends, from a kid's perspective there was no reason for prejudice. He just knew some couple who were a man/woman combination, others who were same sex and accepted that. He was gobsmacked when I had to explain a reference in a TV programme, and his reasoning is so sound, I was sad that I had to introduce him finally to adult prejudice. There is no reason whatsoever for shame. Any shame has come from bigots.

I have had wine and am rambling, but hopefully this makes sense.

singarainbow Fri 03-Jan-14 02:45:11

Dixie, I am so sorry that you are feeling so sad about yourself. It is really hard to accept that part of yourself and get your self esteem to the point where you feel brave enough to come out to more people. Have you thought about counselling, to help build your self esteem?
I am a lesbian mum of 3 kids, got a DP, and if it helps you at all, our kids have never been picked on for their family situation. I think, because we have always been very "out" for the kids, at school etc, it sort of takes the power away from the homophobes. They may say to dc's "your mums are queer" and dc's will say "yes, thats right". iyswim?
Coming out never stops, and there will always be new people you meet, new jobs, new neighbours.....its so important for you to learn to love yourself so you can be happy.

Catsize Fri 03-Jan-14 03:01:46

inspace, I fear we are banging our heads aganst a brick wall with posy. I was going to cite her self-absorbed comments, but reading through them, there are just too many. It is all, I am afraid, 'her her her'.
It is all about her decision and her life.
This is not a personal career decision, like becoming a teacher instead of a lawyer. There is someone else involved, who is being lied to now and will be in the future. For the rest of his life.
Posy's reluctance to open her own thread and be criticused is indicative that a)she knows deep down she is wrong and b)cannot face the truth.
She will live her life as if in a play. That is her choice. Sadly, that choice affects an unsuspecting man who is being duped in the bedroom and out of it.
You and I cannot condone that, but apparently this marriage has very little to do with the other party to it.
I suppressed my sexuality for years. It doesn't work. My first female partner and my third (with whom I have been in a relationship for ten years), I met in unsuspected circumstances. posy's naivity about meeting someone is also striking.
posy, you may well not leave your husband. I am not suggesting you will, and nor is anyone suggesting you are 'snogging women behind your fiancee's back', but the deceit will be emotional and sexual for the rest of your life. So, you are 32. Big deal. Face the truth. It is kinder in the long run. If you are to enter an honest marriage, tell the guy the truth about your feeings. If he is happy to stay with you, fine.
Sadly, I strongly suspect my words are wasted. As your vows will be meaningless.

ProtegeMoi Fri 03-Jan-14 04:54:11

The feelings you have are so normal!

I'm gay and it took me a long time to come to terms with that, and even be able to say it! I used to deliberately say my partner instead of girlfriend, I would say "they went" instead of "she went" etc. and hid it at much as I could.

I hated who I was. It took me a while to get past that and it isn't easy, but the more you realise that the majority of people don't care, the easier it is.

Me and my girlfriend have been together for nearly 7 years now and have three children, two are mine from a previous relationship and the youngest we conceived together via a sperm donor.

The children are happy and have no issues from my sexuality, they are open, honest and proud and have had no bullying etc. we are very lucky that it's mostly a non-issue these days and people are more tolerant than you think.

traininthedistance Fri 03-Jan-14 07:34:14

I've had relationships with men and women and I can relate very well to that worry about awkwardness at work, mentioning DP etc., and thinking "if DP was a man things would be easier, I would be more accepted etc." My current partner is a man and I thought it would be masses easier, and I'd enjoy benefiting from cultural heteronormativity for a change just like everyone else but you know what? Actually (a) it doesn't seem that different, people don't seem to react that differently at all, which makes me wonder how much I was misinterpreting when I was with a female DP; and in any case (b) now I actually miss it! The feeling of being a bit different, a little but surprising to people possibly. On getting together with DH I actually struggled for a while to reconcile it with my former identity, even though I would say I'm bi (if pushed - don't particularly like essentialist or identity-based ideas of sexuality anyway). As previous posters have mentioned, where you live and what kind of job you do makes a difference - glad you're in a big city - media/arts, university sectors, law (surprisingly) are very gay-friendly. I can confirm that younger people are light years ahead of older generations in terms of acceptance but it does depend in where in the country you are. Are you in the SE or London at all?

And as for your mum, people still make daft comments however accepting they are (my mum is a general purveyor of daft comments anyway, so there are always a few here and there that hit on the sexuality thing but to be honest she'd manage to offend anyone so show given enough opportunity ;) )

Don't hate your own sexuality, that's not what's causing you grief! People can be such arseholes. x

ColinButterfly Fri 03-Jan-14 08:09:53

I think part of the issue for people in posy's situation is that it is perhaps more straightforward to come out when there is a reason to do it, i.e. if she had fallen in love with someone then the sacrifices she would be making/changes being made etc would seem worth it. As it is, it's hypothetical. So I can see why you would think it logical to go about it in this way. People whose relationships tick all the boxes are lucky. IME, the greatest, most fulfilling relationship I had was with a man, supportive, amazing guy, but became platonic. The most fulfilling physical relationship I had was with a man with whom I had fantastic sexual chemistry. He was an abusive twunt though and wasn't compatible to having other fulfilling aspects of my life - wouldn't want me to have a career, friends, family etc, independence. I have concluded that for me, having it all isn't necessarily going to happen, and that's ok.

The only word of caution I suppose would be, is that you don't always meet people where you expect to. I've socialised with lesbians for a long time and not the slightest bit of action on the scene as it were. The women that I've had flings with have been 'straight' women I met in day to day life (as in, not out on the pull, not actively seeking a relationship with a woman at that time).

Onepostposy Fri 03-Jan-14 08:57:30

Mardy, religion is a factor, yes.

Please don't think my family and friends are small minded bigots, they aren't. I remember being at a friend's house years ago and on the TV two women were kissing and the family all roared in disgust - unfortunately people like that DO exist.

My dad isn't like that, nor is my fiancé or my friends, but they would be shocked and in my dad's case, a bit ashamed.

Catsize, trust me, I am far from self absorbed. I can't believe you and space think I should throw everything away for sex, which is all this really boils down to (for me.) I don't want to start my own thread because I've made my decision: I don't want advice. My post here was one of empathy, not confusion.

I have known since the age of eighteen that I am sexually attracted to women and so I have had ample time to pursue sexual relations with them. It hasn't happened because I haven't let it happen, and nor will I. I am going to be married to a man, I love that man and I will be faithful to that man. My fantasies, which is all they are, are no one else's business.

Catsize Fri 03-Jan-14 09:04:27

I do not think you should throw everything away for sex. It is to respect the man you say you love. Personally, I would not want someone to be with me on a compromised basis. Also, as and when things happen sexually, I would want them to be doing things because they wanted to be doing them with me. If your husband was fantasising about being with a man as he made love to you, perhaps you would be okay with that, and that is fine. All I am saying is that he has the right to know your feelings so he can decide. You are no doubt playing your role very well, but at the end of the day it is acting, and by definition dishonest. I do not doubt that you love him on a level.

oakmouse Fri 03-Jan-14 09:44:03

Dixie, at my mum's church (a fairly trad C of E one) the vicar congratulated two members of the congregation on their civil partnership in the notices. My postie was chatting about her female partner the other day while my neighbour's 17 year old daughter was bemoaning how bored she was getting with her friends trying to decide if they were bi, straight or gay.

It is a different world than it was in the eighties when people were shocked at Boy George and everybody assumed George Michael was heterosexual (yeah, right grin )

Bigots get worse the more threatened they are. It's their problem. It is impossible to get through life without being criticised for something, it might as well be for leading a lovely life with the person you love smile

InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream Fri 03-Jan-14 09:53:03

posy I can understand why you don't want us criticizing you, and I can understand why you're annoyed. But catsize is right. It's not just about sex at all. I'm straight. But could I force myself to marry and live with a woman when it was really a man I wanted? Regardless of sex! No I couldn't! That would be living a lie, and extremely unfair to the woman. You should tell fiance the truth before it's too late.

Onepostposy Fri 03-Jan-14 09:55:57

But I don't WANT a woman - this is what I'm trying to explain smile - I want to marry my fiancé. I don't want to marry a woman.

ViviPru Fri 03-Jan-14 10:00:11

I just wanted to add a voice in support of Posy and her decisions. I don't think you are being selfish or cruel. And I hope this thread does not give you cause for any self-doubt or anxiety.

Beastofburden Fri 03-Jan-14 10:02:08

I think what posy is saying is that she is marrying the person she loves, but she could have been happy with a woman, had she fallen in love with one.

Is that so very different from marrying one person but retaining fond memories/ fantasies over a former boyfriend that didn't work out?

I know a couple where both were previously married, to men. Mary Portas is a high profile example of the same thing. Surely, if you are bi, that is to be expected? posy does sound more bi than gay to me, TBH.

SolemnHour Fri 03-Jan-14 10:20:05

I don't think whether posy is bi or gay is what is important, she is happy with her man as long as he is who she wants that's all that really matters, I love my husband to death he is my best friend but I'm not sexually attracted to any other man. I know a woman is what I need sexually but that's no different to the millions of others who fantisize about other men who are hotter or younger than their partners, the way I see it we are only Allowed one so we are all sacrificing other desires anyway.

NottinghamLass Fri 03-Jan-14 10:28:19

Would you want to be with someone who really would only be sexually satisfied with someone of the opposite sex to you? I know I wouldn't.

Tubemole1 Fri 03-Jan-14 10:32:27

Homophobia generally is borne from a combination of two things. One: A lack of understanding of the variety of life. Some people just can't get their heads around the differing types of "normal". Two: They are frightened that they are curious about homosexuality and alternative lifestyles from society's heterosexual "norm" and so lash out against it.

I am hetero but work in a gay-friendly workplace, with a strong Equality and Inclusion policy. Many colleagues are gay and bi, some are in civil partnerships, and one or two are living a lie. It makes no odds to me. It depends where you live, where you work, who you socialise with that makes a difference to accepting who you are. If you are sufferring homophobic abuse that is a crime which can be reported to the police. If you cannot improve your life by using official channels then unfortunately the system us not working for you and you must consider starting again somewhere else.

Stonewall and the Samaritans are both great places to seek help. A gay colleague also recommends thee Gay and Lesbian switchboard, as he calls it, but it may have changed its name now. Don't give up.

InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream Fri 03-Jan-14 10:35:20

Exactly my point nottinghamlass.

ITCouldBeWorse Fri 03-Jan-14 10:54:40

I reckon you should move or start mixing in nicer circles. I know that sounds like I think it is easy, but when you mix with nice normal people who treat you like a nice normal person, it will boost your strength so could can deal with idiots.

Plus you can come out and stay out, rather than having to declare yourself over and over.

Btw, at my school, we are currently doing more collections for civil partnerships than for weddings and display stonewall material in every classroom and social area.

I think society is changing month by month. Not fast enough, but gaining momentum.

Good luck.

MardyBra Fri 03-Jan-14 10:57:16

To be fair posy didn't post asking for advice or if she was bu. I hope you don't feel you are getting bruised by buns -you seem to holding your corner.

monet3 Fri 03-Jan-14 11:01:04

Honestly, if you are pretty you get picked on, same with being overweight, rich, poor, what clothes you wear, how you bring up your kids, your personality. I wouldnt worry about others. Someone will always have a negative comment or thought whatever your situation.

Onepostposy Fri 03-Jan-14 11:02:22

Nottingham if sex is very important to you, I understand why you might feel that way. It isn't important to me, so I am satisfied. I completely understand why someone with a higher sex drive might not be, though.

Catsize Fri 03-Jan-14 11:35:13

Agh!!!! posy, this is not just about YOU!! It is about respect and honesty. But nevermind. You won't see that. inspace (and others), we tried. Poor chap. sad

Onepostposy Fri 03-Jan-14 11:39:30

It really isn't how you've decided it is, Catsize, but if for whatever reason you want to give me a hard time over it, carry on. It's just confirming in my mind I have absolutely made the right decision for me and my life (not that I had even a shred of doubt.) It isn't about me at all: it's about my dad and late mum, my brother and my fiancé, my friends, my horses, my work, my life, my future children.

It's about living my life the way I want to. And I do not wish to embark on a relationship with a woman despite finding them sexually attractive. This will go around in circles endlessly so if you don't mind I am going to step back from it.

Catsize Fri 03-Jan-14 12:24:07

It is okay posy, we are agreed on one thing 'it is about living [your] life the way [you] want to', but as said above, you won't see that therein lies the problem. I do not care if you ever have a relationship with a woman or not. I care about your fiance being head over heels with you and unwittingly entering into a deceitful marriage. More than you do it seems. Pointless me going on, so will leave it. At least your horses won't suffer. confused

HermioneWeasley Fri 03-Jan-14 14:35:31

OP, agree with what others have said. The more open you are and the more you realise how most people simply don't care, the easier it is to reconcile.

I had a terrible time when I first realised - eating disorders, self harm. Now very happy with DW and our babies.

Wishing you peace and happiness. Xx

chocolatemademefat Fri 03-Jan-14 19:27:45

While we still have labels like gay and straight there will always be problems. My son is gay and has no problems with his peers - problems arise from older generations. My parents are very anti-gay (homophobes in a big way) resulting in my son hiding a big part of his life from them.

People who dont know I have a gay son are quite happy in social situations to crack jokes and make disgusting comments which I ignore as my son has no wish for his family to turn it into a big deal. I die a little inside everytime I dont retaliate.

Dont hate yourself Dixie - and dont stop being proud of who you are. I know its not much comfort now but I think slowly things ARE changing. There are a lot of people like me around who perhaps should speak up more to stamp out the ignorance you are subjected to.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now