To think that if you move 100 miles away from NRP you should stick to your agreement?

(56 Posts)
TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 19:16:09

I'm fucking furious so can't see whether I am being unreasonable.

Brief back story- DSD lived with me and DP from 5 months. XP split up with DP when she was 6 months pregnant. She kept leaving DSD for weeks at a time with us and claimed tax creds, housing etc based on her having DSD. Whenever we asked her to change the child benefit she would take DSD back.

Back and forth to court. DP had residency 4 times. The last time it was awarded to XP (DP had been shown to be irresponsible by forgetting to phone back cafcass). DP has DSD EOW.

All was fine. Then at beginning of year XP moves over 100 miles away with DSD to live with her new partner. DP didn't know he could argue it so agrees as long as XP does half the trips.

DP lost his job. Couldn't keep up with private maintenance agreement. Explains to ex that he will pay what he can when be can and will backdate when he gets new job. She phones CSA. CSA tell her he has no income, surviving off my maternity pay.

He got a new iob Friday. Was going to tell them Friday when XPs new partner brings DSD to us (their weekend to travel). The new partner has just phoned DP and said they won't be bringing DSD anymore ever as they can't afford it

She's the one who bloody moved promising that she would stick to half the trips. She knows we are skint so it looks like she's trying to cut DP out.

DP wants to pick DSD up and not return her as its her mum not sticking to her own agreement. I think its unfair as it's christmas.

What the fuck do we do now? He's broken enough with XP refusing to let him speak to DSD during the fortnight he doesn't see her, she's filthy when we get her, she's writing letters to her friends where we live saying she wants to live here and that mummy shouts at her for saying it.

What would you do? I can't even go and get her the weekends they're supposed to and help DP out as she's not allowed in my car as I've only been driving since June confused

Sorry this was long. Just so fucking rage filled and don't want to vent in front of DCs.

Casmama Wed 18-Dec-13 19:19:32

She does sound like a bit of a nightmare but if the arrangement was based on her receiving maintenance from your dp that she is no longer getting then perhaps she is telling the truth about not being able to afford it

AngelsLieToKeepControl Wed 18-Dec-13 19:21:18

On the issue of travel alone I don't think she ibu, she isn't getting maintenance so she probably can't afford it.

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 19:33:06

Maintenance shouldn't affect contact. She also, as we would if we moved, budgeted x amount for the trips. Even when DP starts up the payments again she will find another excuse. We paid for ballet lessons for 6 months only to find from DSD she had stopped doing them after 2 because they were too expensive!

Sorry I probably am being a twat. I'm just sick of DSD being used as a weapon.

AngelsLieToKeepControl Wed 18-Dec-13 19:36:27

Could he afford to give her petrol money? Or do you have enough money to get there?

Maintenence shouldn't effect contact, but I can see how it has in this case.

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 19:38:44

We could just about manage it but its Friday evening ( pick up after school)- to Sunday evening. DP can't get out of work until 5, she won't let me do the trips so DP wouldn't get there until 8 and DSD wouldn't get to ours until 11pm. If he picks up on Saturday morning then it's a huge chunk of time with her we are all missing out on.

Monetbyhimself Wed 18-Dec-13 19:43:58

Pick her up on Saturday morning. If the other option is etting her to you at 11pm, she won't be missing out on much time at all.

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 19:48:45

She usually gets to us at 7/8 the way it is now. To pick her up Saturday at say 8/9 am DP would have to leave at 5/6am get back with her about lunchtime then have to leave Sunday lunchtime to take her back. So it's more than 12 hours less contact (admittedly she's asleep for some).

I don't understand the part where it's okay for your dp not to afford it for a while but when she says she can't afford it, it's not okay?

Whatnamenext Wed 18-Dec-13 19:52:16

What a nightmare. No advice but lovely to see you care so much.

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 19:52:19

Because we have still been taking her there and back when we are supposed to as per the agreement she came up with. If we said we couldn't afford to do the trip then all hell would break loose.

Sorry, OP, I misread. I thought you said dp didn't travel when he lost his job. blush

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 19:56:29

That's ok. Sorry if I sounded arsey. I'm just so sick of all of this.

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 20:19:09

I should also point out its only been 6 weeks maintenance that has been missed.

gobbynorthernbird Wed 18-Dec-13 20:36:02

Only 6 weeks. How nice. That's 6 weeks that the child didn't need to eat for. Or use any utilities. Or go to school. Or need any new clothes. Try not taking the piss, you may get more back.

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 20:40:01

I meant only 6 weeks as opposed to months of missed payments. Not only 6 weeks as in it doesn't matter.

gobbynorthernbird Wed 18-Dec-13 20:43:55

But it is still money that RP was relying on, and you seem to think she can do without it. Or cover you in the meantime.

IneedAwittierNickname Wed 18-Dec-13 20:45:32

I t

BrokenFairylights Wed 18-Dec-13 20:48:56

I wouldn't be impressed if I didn't get paid for 6 weeks, that's a lot of missing money.

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 20:49:35

She's not covering us. We haven't once expected her to do extra trips etc. If her partner had lost his job she would still have to do the trips. The money should be budgeted for. We have managed it. It's been a bit tight but we have done it. She chose to move that far away knowing how much it would cost both her and us to do the trips. She also told DP not to worry about maintenance until he got a new job then went straight to the CSA.

IneedAwittierNickname Wed 18-Dec-13 20:51:19

Wtf confused let's try again!

I thought that the parent who moved away had to 'cover the cost' of travel.so to speak. So if the pwc moves, they take a dip in maintenance/cover nrps travel costs. Not sure where I read that though. So part of me says that she chose to move that far away,

BUT I'm a lone parent who receives no maintenance from my ex, and its so hard! Every single purchase has to be considered. Difference is though, my ex quit his job because it didn't fit in with his social.life!

(needs a cushion for this fence)

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 20:52:29

No I can't imagine missing the money has been fun. But she should still be making DSD available for contact. When she was resident with DP we didn't receive maintenance etc and did all the handover trips. In 4 years DP has missed 6 weeks of payments. He has paid for all uniform, extra curricular stuff and anything else she's asked for. I'm aware that this doesn't excuse not paying 6 weeks but I wanted to point out he's not a deadbeat dad.

Vintagecakeisstillnice Wed 18-Dec-13 20:53:44

So what about all the times the OP and DP were caring for the child while the tax credits etc where still going to the Mum???

Or is the DP expected to always suck it up just because he's male??

AngelsLieToKeepControl Wed 18-Dec-13 20:55:05

Nobody is saying he is a deadbeat dad, but surely you can see how she will be struggling without maintenance, she still has the same outgoings, probably more at this time of year, but she has less money. Something has to give.

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 20:55:17

Now the CSA are involved she is going to be taking a dip to cover fuel. DP doesn't trust having a private arrangement so is going to do dverything through CSA so that it is documented.

She's not a lone parent. She has a partner who her son calls dad. They are a family unit, DSD is part of that as she is ours. She's not sitting there destitute.

Sorry. It just feels like a power play and things had actually been going well for a while between everyone.

gobbynorthernbird Wed 18-Dec-13 20:55:39

You can't not pay and then complain because she's skint. I would fume if my ex stopped paying the pittance that he is and then expected me to fund contact. As well as everything else you're not paying for.
Where do you expect her to find the cash from? Should she not provide Xmas dinner or something?

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 20:58:16

We are expecting her to fund the contact she agreed to fund when she decided to move so far away. DP asked her not to move as she has no support network there should the relationship fail and all of DSDs family on both sides are where we live. She assured DP she wouldn't do anything to interfere with contact. So far she has stopped any phone communication despite DSD saying she's asked to phone DP and is now doing this.

gobbynorthernbird Wed 18-Dec-13 20:59:29

And, I know I'm being harsh, and I do appreciate that you do/have done a lot, but the situation as it is now is that you are not paying and RP can't afford to cover the trip. Lone parent/remarried/whatever, if I lost a chunk of my household income that I relied on I'd be stuck. You can't exactly save for this kind of eventuality.

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 20:59:42

Sorry taking a dip might have come across spitefully. I meant that DP is paying exactly what the CSA say to including what they say about travel. Obviously uniforms, trips etc he will continue to provide.

IneedAsockamnesty Wed 18-Dec-13 21:00:36

Maintenance shouldn't affect contact

Its not, its only affecting the transport,she's not saying he can't go and get her.

gobbynorthernbird Wed 18-Dec-13 21:01:14

Sorry, but you say she agreed. Well so did your DP. She travels, he pays. How do you not get to stick to your half of the agreement, but she has to?

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 21:02:28

No but imposing who can and can't collect her is going to limit it. She will then say it's too late for DP to get DSD and then she will be missing out on a lot of time here.

Then when DP does pay again she will come up with another excuse.

IneedAsockamnesty Wed 18-Dec-13 21:03:26

Sorry taking a dip might have come across spitefully. I meant that DP is paying exactly what the CSA say to including what they say about travel. Obviously uniforms, trips etc he will continue to provide

You mean the reduction he gets for contact related travel?

As the pwc in not entitled to any increase to cover travel its only the nrp who can claim a reduction via variation.

Szeli Wed 18-Dec-13 21:04:01

Did she pay maintenance when you were the RP?

Maintenance is based on income, if they were still together her income would change thru him losing his job, as it has now. If her income has reduced dramatically to the point her child can't eat she may have been able to increase the necessary tax credits.

I don't think yabu I think she is and I would be tempted to take it back to court if that's an option

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 21:05:16

Yes as in DP getting a reduction and her choosing to go through the CSA according to their calculations he would pay less than he has been. So even with maintenance she can say that she can't afford for her partner to bring DSD to us.

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 21:06:35

She has never paid a penny. For 9 months she received child benefit, housing benefit and ctc for a child she saw once or twice a month if she turned up. That was for 2.5 years.

basgetti Wed 18-Dec-13 21:06:48

Slightly off topic, but did your DP really lose residency after 4 orders in his favour based on one missed phone call? It sounds very punitive.

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 21:07:53

The not paying maintenance. Not the benefits for two years.

She also frequently during the benefit time phoned and said we had to get DSD as she didn't have milk , nappies etc. DP would take them over so she could spend more time with DSD and she would just hand her back.

Monetbyhimself Wed 18-Dec-13 21:09:25

She is making her available by contact. Thisi issuecould be very easily resolved in the interim by your husband going to pick his daughter up so that she doesn't miss out on time with her dad. Which is the central most important thing in all of this. The ex is not the only one playing power games. That poor little girl.

IneedAsockamnesty Wed 18-Dec-13 21:11:28

So he gets the reduction for doing the travel but wants her to do it?

mygrandchildrenrock Wed 18-Dec-13 21:11:37

Could she claim some benefits if her income gets too low?

basgetti, my son had full custody of his child and stepchildren for 18 months, during which time they hardly saw their mother. They were still given back to her! They were in court 4 times during that time and each time the judge ruled they should live with my son. The difference was on the last time, she'd had another baby and the judge said it was a very difficult decision, but he didn't want to split siblings up! They had seen the new baby once or twice.

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 21:13:15

Have you dealt with cafcass? It was determined that he was irresponsible despite the cafcass report saying we had a stable home life for DSD. DP began to doubt whether he was being unfair in keeping DSD from XP when she was starting to get her shit together and didn't want DSD resenting him for it. He was accused by XP of sexually and physically abusing DSD, nothing came of this and she made him have a DNA test. Truth be told he should have fought harder. The allegations pushed him over the edge tbh and it took him a while to recover. He is still angry with himself because he didn't fight hard enough and was too concerned about DSD reading the court papers in later life. The cafcass comment and a combination of the above mads him give up for want of a better word.

For a long time everything was working. Then in the last few months DSD has been filthy and withdrawn. Now the contact issue.

Apologies if this is drip feeding. I wasn't sure how much was relevant and didn't want to come across too much like I was slagging off XP.

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 21:14:56

Her new partners income is in the region of 40k. She won't be entitled to claim benefits unless she is doing so illegally.

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 21:15:33

And yes a reduction on the £70 a weekend trip. He's not expecting a reduction for all travel and still asking her to do it.

SnowDaze Wed 18-Dec-13 21:16:19

FGS maintenance has nothing to do with visitation.

My dsd mother moved country, hasn't paid maintenance .....well ever ... because she can't be arsed. We still manage to support DSDs visit because it is in the interest of the child. If there was a problem we'd certainly give more than a few days notice and try to work something out.

It stinks TheNight. I'd be fed up too.

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 21:18:38

Court isn't really an option. We have only just got back in the position to pay maintenance. Legal fees would be impossible.

FudgefaceMcZ Wed 18-Dec-13 21:21:34

Sorry but moving isn't really a choice any more, most people have to be geographically mobile over their lifetime, that's how the labour market works and when families separate, both parents have to take this into account, not just the one who 'chooses' to move (it's not really a choice if her new partner's job is elsewhere, he can hardly resign to move nearer just because it's more convenient for you). The expenses of travelling should be divided up based on household income, so not sure how that would work out for you and them. It is a bit pathetic for him not to see his child just because he wants someone to deliver her to his door, too- during the time she's said she can't afford travel, he could just go there.

But it does sound like if you have other concerns, this should go back to court for a change of residence if the child wants it and is old enough to say so.

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 21:26:37

He's not going to not see her. We will have to find the money somehow.

Monetbyhimself Wed 18-Dec-13 21:36:36

Good. That's sorted then.

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 21:40:22

She's 6.7. I'm not sure a court would listen to where she wants to live.

Shit happens, people lose jobs. The DH has managed to get work again quickly so he was obviously trying. If the XP has now been told about the new job and the maintenance starting up again, and is still saying she won't be able to afford to travel, she's being unfair. If she's still unaware of the new job, then she's not being unfair if the lack of maintenance means she can't afford the travel.

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 21:44:14

If she answered her phone to DP she woulfbd been told today. It wasn't even her that phoned to say she wouldn't be doing the travelling on Friday. Her partner phoned instead.

So she doesn't know? Then she's being fair based on what she knows. She thinks she has no money coming in. It's affecting her budget so she can't travel.

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 21:56:05

DP is going to email her and let her know. Then see what happens. He's also going to phone her school tomorrow and see if they have any concerns about the other stuff.

zipzap Wed 18-Dec-13 22:17:51

I would have thought that a late pick up on the Friday would be a good idea - if dd's put her pyjamas on before travelling and had a blanket to cover her in the car, your dh could jut lift her into bed when they get home and you get all Saturday together, even if you just have a gentle morning, it's better than your dh having to do a 200 mile round trip then.

TheNightIsDark Wed 18-Dec-13 22:26:18

Just worried her mum won't see it as a good thing and will insist on Saturday morning.

I'm sure it will all get sorted in time. It's just the stress in between is horrible.

Thank you everyone for the replies.

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