Requests for gifts with the fucking wedding invite.

(320 Posts)
intothenever Mon 16-Dec-13 06:10:30

HOW is this socially acceptable? How? Family and friends, Please join us as we celebrate our love and commit to spend our lives together. Enclosed is a list of things we would like you to buy us. 1000 times worse when the demand for gifts is in rhyming couplets.

BikeRunSki Mon 16-Dec-13 06:16:44

It is pretty traditional to send a wedding list with the invitation.

RudolphLovesoftplay Mon 16-Dec-13 06:17:01

To be perfectly honest, I don't really understand the aversion to gift lists <dons hard hat>. Most people surely want to give the couple a gift they actually want? I know I don't want to spend £100 on something that won't get used.

I think it's acceptable to say, please don't feel like you have to get us a present, what's important is you being with us on our day. However, if you would like to get us something, there is a list at JL, Debenhams etc etc.

Just make sure that on the list is things with a price range that starts really low.

BikeRunSki Mon 16-Dec-13 06:19:56

I did object to "cricket shoes, size 11" on a wedding list once. We went for the more traditional towels.

ceres Mon 16-Dec-13 06:32:45

well tbf even debretts reckons sending wedding lists with invitations is acceptable.

i have an issue with people getting their knickers in a twist about buying wedding presents. why would you go to a wedding, or any party, without a present? now that is rude.

ARealPickle Mon 16-Dec-13 06:40:57

Its quite normal though isnt it? The major stores gave out a little card to put in the envelope in my day. I guess now there's often a more discrete email link....

but it doesnt mean you have to buy from the list bt saves people wondering or you posting another 100 cards out.

yabu, I thought it was normal to send a list with the invite, would you really go to a wedding without a gift?
At least this was you will be able to get them something they want

KittyVonCatsington Mon 16-Dec-13 06:42:22

What's got your knickers in a twist, OP?

jellyandcake Mon 16-Dec-13 06:44:28

I don't get the antipathy to it I've seen on here either. I have always wanted to give a gift whenever I have attended a wedding and I am grateful to be able to pick something off a list as it is so much easier!

WeAreEternal Mon 16-Dec-13 06:45:08

I like wedding gift lists, they are traditional and make shopping for a gift easy.
Asking for money is rude, even more so if it is I'm a poem.

TheArticFunky Mon 16-Dec-13 06:48:56

I didn't want to put a gift list in the invitation as it felt grabby but my Mum said it was traditional and said that she would be annoyed if she received an invitation without a list.

In the end I put a little card in with the invitation asking people to contact my mum if they wanted a copy of the gift list.

redcaryellowcar Mon 16-Dec-13 06:51:07

we didn't include a gift list or money requesting poem in our wedding invite but i think most people either asked what we wanted at which point we directed them to john Lewis gift list or they bought vouchers, we didn't get random stuff just because we didn't include a list.

Canthaveitall Mon 16-Dec-13 06:52:29

Yabu. Have you ever been to a wedding and not bought a gift? Would you not prefer to know what to buy?

valiumredhead Mon 16-Dec-13 06:52:42

A wedding list is perfectly acceptable. If you don't have one everyone rings up and asks you for one ime.

Don't get the angst about asking for money either, it's not like you pay for a gift with fairy dust, is it, and saves you the bother of shopping?confused

Blondeshavemorefun Mon 16-Dec-13 06:54:08

I don't get why people get upset/angry over wedding lists

Much easier to buy something they need esp online

And again vouchers don't bother me - whether I spend £30 on a clock or same amount on vouchers

Vouchers are my godsend for Xmas pressies via amazon smile

FairyPenguin Mon 16-Dec-13 06:57:12

It is traditional, but I was not impressed when I received a thick envelope once containing an invite and THREE gift lists. That was a bit much.

Ememem84 Mon 16-Dec-13 06:57:49

We found this difficult. Dh's family are in nz. We wNted to go and visit. We asked for money. Not in a "we want to go here please pay travel agent" way. But in a "we are going if you would like to contribute thank you that'd be lovely" way. Can't remember the exact wording. But asking was awful.

GoldFrankincenseAndTwiglets Mon 16-Dec-13 06:58:38

YADNBU. Yes, wedding lists are much easier for guests and of course people would always buy a gift at a wedding - OP never said otherwise. It's just the assumption that you'll be buying something that bugs me. It's grabby. I had a wedding list but didn't include details in the invites - I waited to be asked if there was a list. You wouldn't say "I'm having a birthday party and this is what I want for a present" and weddings are no different.

Crowler Mon 16-Dec-13 07:00:21

I understand it's acceptable now, but I can't get on board with it.

firesidechat Mon 16-Dec-13 07:03:05

Sorry, but I'm another one who can't get their knickers in a twist over this.

When you go to a wedding you take a gift and much easier if someone tells you what they want isn't it? It doesn't seem grabby to me, just practical.

SatinSandals Mon 16-Dec-13 07:10:08

If you are going to go then surely you are taking a present? You then need some guidance or they end up with 3 or more toasters!
With the cost of postage it makes sense.
Option 1- send it with the invitation.
Option 2 - people accept and ask for a list and have to have it posted.
Option 1 is more practical, if not as polite, but I would have thought that you knew them well enough not to be offended if you are invited. If it does offend you then just decline the invitation.

Crowler Mon 16-Dec-13 07:10:33

Of course I'm going to buy a gift, but the presumption of a gift is bothersome. I can email the bride and ask her where's she's registered.

DoesntLeftoverTurkeySoupDragOn Mon 16-Dec-13 07:11:04

[shrug]
It's hardly worth getting worked up about to the point of swearing.

AuntieStella Mon 16-Dec-13 07:13:12

It is rude to ask for gifts.

It is done frequently, but that doesn't make it less rude.

If you're going to be rude, you can at least make those on the receiving end snigger by doing so in doggerel.

I know NO ONE in RL who has an issue with wedding lists. It's an MN peculiarity, as far as I can see.

If I got a wedding invitation with no gift list/indication as to preferred gift, I'd be turning the envelope out looking for it. It's NORMAL.

tumbletumble Mon 16-Dec-13 07:13:55

My parents went through their attic recently and chucked out a set of garden furniture that was no use to anyone after disintegrating in an attic for over 40 years. They've never lived anywhere with a garden big enough to sit in.

This is why people have wedding lists!

HombreLobo Mon 16-Dec-13 07:14:52

I've never taken a gift to a wedding.

brettgirl2 Mon 16-Dec-13 07:15:04

I think it depends. It annoys me when a list is included with an evening invite. So.... you don't like me enough to invite me to the wedding/ buy me a meal but you still expect a present? hmm.

With a proper invite yabu.

AuntieStella Mon 16-Dec-13 07:15:23

There's no problem with having a list - just with sending it out pre-emptively. The first is practical, the second is rude.

DoesntLeftoverTurkeySoupDragOn Mon 16-Dec-13 07:19:43

I've never taken a gift to a wedding.

Seriously? That is incredibly rude.

GingerPCatt Mon 16-Dec-13 07:21:37

Having a list is fine. It's the mentioning in the invitees what makes me clutch my pearls and I know makes my very proper grandmother spin in her grave. If guest want to know about the list they should ask bride/groom or their families.

Crowler Mon 16-Dec-13 07:22:24

Yes, I'm pretty sure it's rude to go to a wedding without a gift.

Why don't you bring a gift?

AnnBryce Mon 16-Dec-13 07:22:37

Gift lists with invites are normal. Not taking a pressie isn't.

NoComet Mon 16-Dec-13 07:23:12

Please ask for money
It's what you'll get off me anyway, that or two champagne flutes and a cheque to fill them.

I can't be doing with plates and people only need so many towels.

fluffyraggies Mon 16-Dec-13 07:24:28

I think asking for cash is the thing that gets more of a split between YABU and YANBU here.

The thing with a gift list is that (properly done) the list should include items as cheap as a tenner or even less along with more pricey bits.

No one would feel comfortable giving a fiver as a wedding gift, but if you're skint, you're skint. If a couple have asked for cash as a present then you're put in a horrid position. At least with a list you can choose from the cheaper end.

DialMforMummy Mon 16-Dec-13 07:25:03

Most people will want to give you a gift, it's a given. If some people are grumpy about it, let them be, they are miserable bastards.
Personally, I would want to make a gift that would make the bride and groom happy, if it's pans, a serving spoon or a contribution to something they are looking forward to that's great. I don't get the whole "Oh no, that's rude".

Lovecat Mon 16-Dec-13 07:26:05

YANBU, it's a rude and grabby presumption.

Our invites were sent out by my mum <traditional> and she had the list, but only to give to people who asked for it.

What we did include with the invite was a list of reasonably-priced nice hotels and B&Bs in the area, as a lot of our friends were travelling to the area.

Don't get me started on poems and money...

AuntieStella Mon 16-Dec-13 07:27:01

I've never taken a gift to a wedding - I send in advance.

And of course no one would tell you in RL that something is rude, for that in itself would be appallingly rude. Silence does not indicate approval. And just because something is common does not make it right.

SatinSandals Mon 16-Dec-13 07:28:09

I would think it incredibly rude to go without a gift. I have never known someone go without anything.
If you then ask the bride/groom or family they then have to go to all the trouble of having to post it. Most people are going to ask for a list so it is common sense to supply it. If you post 30 invitations that costs £15 and it will then cost another £15 to send a list.
As long as you don't put in twee poems, or ask for money, I think it fine.

SatinSandals Mon 16-Dec-13 07:29:39

I think that you are splitting hairs, AuntieStella, when you say 'take a gift' it doesn't mean you literally hand it at the wedding reception!

scarlettsmummy2 Mon 16-Dec-13 07:36:34

We didn't have a list or request money. We already owned our own home so had everything we needed, so it seemed tasteless. Quite different situation to when a list may have been helpful for young couples were moving in together for the first time.

ChocolateZombieSlayer Mon 16-Dec-13 07:37:04

Perfectly acceptable imo to include a gift list at a weddIng. If you don't you run the risk of multiple repeated gifts. Wedding lists are rather sensible and I've always appreciated seeing one, certainly nothing to swear about. I just don't get all the shock horror on mumsnet 're these lists as thumb said up thread it's only here that appears to have an issue.

JumpingJackSprat Mon 16-Dec-13 07:37:47

Id rather give money than a gift and couldn't give a flying fuck if the request came in the form of a poem. Must assume op that you're not a friend of the person who invited you otherwise upon opening the invite you would have thought "oh how lovely, x and y are getting married". Not how dare they fucking expect s wedding gift at their wedding the greedy grabbing bastards. Some friend you are!!

ClaudiusMaximus Mon 16-Dec-13 07:39:45

I still can't get over people who turned up to our wedding without even bringing a card. Who does that?!

Twiddlebum Mon 16-Dec-13 07:44:25

The last 8 weddings I've been to ( including ours... 6 asked for contributions to honeymoon ( the normal request now) 1 asked for contributions to a new kitchen (they spent it on a car!) and my DB/DSIL didn't have a list and ended up with 34!!! Naff Silver wedding photo frames. She hates silver, totally not to their taste, they live in a small cottage with no free surfaces to put picture frames. The sad thing is you can tell that many of these frames cost a fortune! What a waste of money.

WooWooOwl Mon 16-Dec-13 07:47:17

I don't mind gift lists, they are useful as long as there is a range of gifts and price ranges to choose from.

But cash requests are rude, especially if the request is made with a shit poem.

Snowbility Mon 16-Dec-13 07:49:00

We asked for no gifts or money...just come to our wedding and celebrate with us. Guests spend enough on outfits and hotel bills. Seriously think the whole wedding gift thing is grabby and outdated. Most couple need nothing for their homes.

SatinSandals Mon 16-Dec-13 07:56:30

Some do, not all are older and have been living together for years.

stargirl1701 Mon 16-Dec-13 07:57:41

YABU. It makes life as the guest so much easier. I hate it when the couple don't have a list. I really appreciate the thoughtfulness of putting it in the invitation.

I wouldn't dream of going to a wedding without buying a gift. Maybe you're different, OP.

SatinSandals Mon 16-Dec-13 07:57:57

When I got married the second time I didn't need anything, but the first time I didn't have anything,other than my mother's cast offs!

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Mon 16-Dec-13 08:00:00

I think it is rude to send the gift list with the invitation. When DH and I were married we were the first grand children to do so and we put a card in saying if anyone wanted directions, accommodation details or the gift list to call PIL. No pressure then. Little bit embarrassed at our assumption we would get gifts since a couple of cousins have expressly said they don't want anything but if you really want too give something.... but that is what I thought you did back then.

winkywinkola Mon 16-Dec-13 08:01:47

Are you planning not to take a gift op?

If not then I can see how a list would annoy you.

If you are then with a list you can be sure you have got the happy couple something they want.

If you don't want them to have something they definitely want then buy them something else.

I wouldn't bother getting upset about. IMO it's a rather neat, efficient way of buying someone a lovely gift.

SatinSandals Mon 16-Dec-13 08:01:47

If you are requesting one later it would be nice to send a sae and not expect them to pay postage a second time.

NorthernLebkuchen Mon 16-Dec-13 08:02:24

I love wedding lists. Such fun to see what people want. grin Last year some friends of ours were getting married and their list was adorable because they actually were setting up home for the first time. They needed tea towels and can openers grin

winkywinkola Mon 16-Dec-13 08:02:52

It's not presumptuous. One always takes a gift to a party or a wedding. It's convention. Therefore not presumptuous.

kimbaker1991 Mon 16-Dec-13 08:05:02

We got married half a year ago and I felt incredibly awkward sending out a gift list, we put in a little poem saying that nothing but company was necessary but if they wanted to get us anything just to be money to go into our savings. It's a difficult one to navigate I'm sure the bride and groom feel just as awkward asking, but if it's not in there you either get hounded for it or get things you don't want or need or in our case have space for ! I'm sure they meant no offence and if they invited you want your company more than your gift :-) Good luck !

FourLittleDudes Mon 16-Dec-13 08:06:58

I prefer to get a gift list with an invite although I don't like bring asked for money.

My friend got married a couple of years ago and asked for contributions towards her honeymoon. She had such s tantrum at the reception when she sat and started opening cards and found that some of them didnt have any money in them. She counted it all up and everything. It was embarrassing to watch!

vtechjazz Mon 16-Dec-13 08:12:20

Well, my family and friends actually wanted to buy me things shock and the things they got me are now treasured items. I love my 'wedding' candle holders from a mate, cheap, cheerful, (as was most of my list) but it gives ordinary things that elevated status of being my 'wedding' item.

Great, another way I've inadvertently offended people by doing something I thought was perfectly acceptable (helpful even!). Ta Mumsnet hmm

ShoeSmacking Mon 16-Dec-13 08:23:47

This his the problem. Traditionally a wedding was the start of life together for a couple and their community of family and friends would help them get started by buying the essentials via the wedding gift list. Other cultures had slightly different versions eg Greeks pin money in the brides dress

Nowadays, most of us realise that we probably don't need lots and pans but the tradition of giving gifts remain.

I'm not wild about the being asked for money thing but I don't get offended. I've realised that people are just trying to navigate a changing world.

For myself, I love a gift list and Los lived having one. If been leaving independently and the. With dh for 15 years when I got married but had never had the money for "naice" things. So every day I enjoy using my lovely matching fluffy towels, or my properly weighted knives or my lovely slow cooker and casserole dishes.

DirtyGertieatnumber30 Mon 16-Dec-13 08:24:35

YANBU OP - wedding lists used to be for couples who were setting up home for the first time so genuinely needed bed linen, crockery etc etc

But these days a lot of couples have been living together for a while before they get married so already have the household items they need so to then ask for stuff like that for gifts just seems greedy and grabby to me.

Plus their guests are possibly spending a lot of money on new outfits, accommodation and travelling to the wedding so it just seems extremely distasteful to then expect them to spend yet more money.

Oh and poems, requests for cash and those god-awful wishing wells at the reception - tacky tacky horrible shit

And I know plenty of people in RL who think the same so not an MN peculiarity as far as I can see...

Dawndonnaagain Mon 16-Dec-13 08:27:53

It has always been perfectly acceptable to send the gift list with the invitation. It isn't rude or begging, it's the conventional way of doing things.

We didn't put a gift list in with ours. As soon as the invitations arrived, people started phoning us and asking for the gift list.

We told people we hadn't done one, had everything we needed, just wanted them there...no, we really wouldn't prefer cash, we genuinely just wanted them to come....etc etc

A week later we had to admit defeat and put together a gift list as everyone was getting so stressed about it!

They are traditional. My parents had one in 1966 so for that alone yabu it ain't new phenomenon is it....

FirstStopCafe Mon 16-Dec-13 08:38:40

I love gift lists. Find it exciting to look through them and decide what to buy

I also have no problem with requests for vouchers/money. They are my friends and I want to buy them something useful and will make them happy

WaitingForPeterWimsey Mon 16-Dec-13 08:45:23

We canvassed opinion before including ours. Most people said they found it irritating having to write to the mother of the bride/bridal couple to ask for the list and that it was much less faff if it was just included. We had a charity list (you could buy school books for children in developing countries) as well as a few presents on a normal list and said in our invitation that we expected nothing at all.

eurochick Mon 16-Dec-13 08:46:26

We were not going to do a gift list as we had already combined two households when we moved in together. I mentioned this to a couple of people when we were wedding planning and they looked horrified. They said they much preferred having a list than trying to come up with a gift. So we put one together in the end. And sent it with the invite.

Everyone I know IRL does this. I think I have had it with every single wedding invite I have received. It makes life easier for guests who want to buy a present anyway (the majority) and those who wish to turn up empty handed are welcome to (as I made clear in the note sent with the invitation).

123Jump Mon 16-Dec-13 08:55:34

Just because there is a list, it doesn't mean you have to buy from the list. You can get what you want.
Lists are perfectly normal and not rude at all IMO, YABU.

Twiddlebum Mon 16-Dec-13 09:10:49

I had a little ditty in with my invites about money towards experiences on our honeymoon etc...... I can only guess that the people complaining on here about it don't get invited to many wedding as if they did they would know that it is the norm these days to ask for money. Quite a few people gave us about £50!!! And I would rather use that money to pay for a elephant treckking trip to remember than on some tat that isn't to my taste and sit in a cupboard not used.

I know that there was probably some people that read my invites and screwed their face up at it but I know who they probably were and to be honest they were the people that I invited out of duty (I.e. Aunts and uncles that you never speak to and don't even like that much) and genuine friends and family wouldn't bat an eyelid to whatever the B&G wanted and would just be happy for them.

So if you are one if those people with that attitude towards the B&G then please think that you are probably on the guest list out of duty and they are more than likely having to pay about £80 each for you to be there when they would be quite happy if you didn't go and save them £160! Sorry but it really annoys me about the bitterness on here.

Ragwort Mon 16-Dec-13 09:20:56

Genuine question - if you are already living together, have everything you need etc. why do you want a big wedding costing approx £80 per guest (particularly if some are only on the list out of duty hmm) and then assume people will want to contribute to your expensive honeymoon?

If you want a big party with all your friends then that is fine, but surely it shouldn't be equated with 'selling tickets' so that you can then pay for flashy honeymoon. confused. Why not have a much smaller wedding and pay for your own holiday?

The original idea of wedding guests was to buy things for a couples' new home.

DontmindifIdo Mon 16-Dec-13 09:26:59

Assuming it was actually a card with a number linking to a shop list, then YANBU - a discreet little card saying "if you would like to buy us a gift, there is a list of things we would like at X shop" is better than an actual 2 page list printed out.

I do't understand the angst about lists on MN, it's not like they are a new concept, the only new bit is them being at a particular shop and sending out with the invites, parents and grandparents here had lists, but in those days, it was an acutal printed out list that was circulated amongst the family, fine if you all live close together and the Mother of the Bride is organised enough to control the list to avoid multiple gifts, but few people in modern life live in the same town as all their family and friends, and then marry someone who also lives in the same town and all their family live close by.

I can only assume the people who are anti-lists either didn't realise that when they were DCs, lists were being circulated amongst the adults in the family and/or they came frm the sort of family that didn't do lists so you just got a pile of random stuff when you got married. I can see why a list being circulated that isn't directly asked for might seem more polite, but it does cause problems if friends and family on both sides aren't in contact, and few people live like that anymore.

Plus if Debretts says it ok, I can't see how it's seen as rude...

GoldFrankincenseAndTwiglets Mon 16-Dec-13 09:28:49

I'm just.... speechless.... at Twiddlebum's post.

DontmindifIdo Mon 16-Dec-13 09:31:44

Ragwort - surely the bulk of family on wedding guest lists are there out of Duty? Most of the weddings I've been to of friends did have cousins there who they say they only see at weddings, funerals and christenings, they aren't people you are close to, but for most families, weddings are social events to get everyone together - it's considered bad form not to invite them because weddings are one of the few occassions when extended family get to see each other.

Twiddlebum Mon 16-Dec-13 09:34:35

Ragwort....

We got married and had a wedding (even after we have lived together for years) because we love each other and wanted a party to share the celebration with friends and family. Yes we could have had a cheap(er) wedding but we had friends and family travelling to us from all over the country so I wanted to serve them a lovely meal etc. people know we have good jobs so I'm sure they would have been more pissed off if they had come all that way to be given a dried up egg sandwich instead of a lovely meal when they know we can afford it. My DB/DSIL spend £2k on their wedding (didn't have a gift list) and the soo many people were moaning about it because of how wealthy they are and they felt like they weren't valued because of what the food was like etc!! Seems you can't win!

OpalTourmaline Mon 16-Dec-13 09:37:50

This wouldn't bother me. I wouldn't dream of turning up to a wedding without a gift and I'd far rather buy something they wanted and would enjoy, so it's useful to know and they probably don't want to have to reply to 100 people asking what they want when they are trying to organise a wedding if they didn't include this info.

JoinYourPlayfellows Mon 16-Dec-13 09:38:57

You're right.

It's really rude and tacky.

How anyone can do something so crass and grasping is beyond me.

Just because someone might want to bring a gift doesn't make it anything other than greedy and obnoxious to send them a list of things you want.

Crowler Mon 16-Dec-13 09:39:08

Twiddlebum - my gifts sound like the ones you want (does it follow that I'm the guest that you want?) I would normally give 100 cash and upwards for anyone markedly younger than me. But I'd be put off by your attitude. You're biting the hand that feeds cash.

Xfirefly Mon 16-Dec-13 09:40:38

our friends who got married 2 years ago put in their invitations 'IF you would like to get us a gift then money towards our new home would be great' (it was written a lot nicer than that obviously smile ) but the point was you didn't feel you had to give something so IMO it wasn't cheeky. nicest thing was they sent lovely thank you cards with pictures of their new home and the renovations they did with the money.

JoinYourPlayfellows Mon 16-Dec-13 09:42:58

Putting IF before it doesn't make any different.

It's still rude and grabby and totally out of order.

If people want to know what you want, they will ASK.

Twiddlebum Mon 16-Dec-13 09:44:55

Our invertations basically said that we didn't wants gifts but knew that there would be some people that wanted to so any money received would be spent on trip etc on honeymoon. We never expected the amount of money we received and were totally shocked by it. We guessed that some people would put a tender in a card. I certainly did not expect loads of money in return for coming to my wedding. I know that I'm not wrong in my 'asking for money instead of presents' because pretty much everyone I know that has got married in the last few years has done the same. It's not a new concept

TheMuppetsSingChristmas Mon 16-Dec-13 09:46:56

Proof that all the money in the world can't buy class...

Crowler Mon 16-Dec-13 09:47:15

If nothing else you can know that it's a divisive issue. Best to err on the side of caution in these matters. I think it highly unlikely that the absence of a guest list in the invite would drive a person to buy a gift without guidance.

Panzee Mon 16-Dec-13 09:48:50

Ah, this is brilliant. I thought the Wedding Thread season was over, but here comes another one! Sixteen new ways to offend potential guests without realising it. grin

AnAdventureInCakeAndWine Mon 16-Dec-13 09:49:53

I would't actually mind (too much) being asked for cash, but being asked in a "ditty" would piss me off.

As it is, in spite of having been to (according to a past thread on here) more weddings than the average MNer, I've never once been asked for cash. One couple did ask for JL vouchers, but managed to do so without resorting to either rhyme or modern interpretative dance, simply explaining that they currently lived in the world's smallest flat with no storage space but were hoping to move house within the next year and that was the point at which they'd actually need the stuff.

Mabelene Mon 16-Dec-13 09:51:21

Relatives of my DH got married earlier this year, 2nd time for one of them, and they each have a fully equipped home, good jobs etc - I was absolutely gobsmacked to get a john Lewis gift list with the invitation - so grabby looking. If I was them it would have been donations to charity, if anything. I refused to engage with it at all and left DH to decide, much to his dismay as I normally do anything like this and he hates shopping online grin

This couple are v annoying in lots of ways, I hate going out for a meal with them as they always find something to complain about, so that probably coloured my view too!

MissBattleaxe Mon 16-Dec-13 09:52:57

Lists are completely normal.

However, it is nice to include a disclaimer saying that guests don't have to buy anything as sometimes all their money is used up in travel and accommodation. Having a guest there who didn't bring a gift is much nicer than not having a guest there who couldn't have afforded a gift and the expense of attending.

Freddiefrog Mon 16-Dec-13 09:55:59

Gift lists and requests for money have never bothered me in the slightest.

People generally buy gifts when they go to a wedding, if they're a close enough friend that I'm invited to their wedding, then I'd like to ensure that I spend my money on something they like or need.

I really don't see it as grabby or obnoxious, I'm at liberty to ignore it should I wish, no one has a gun to my back

DontmindifIdo Mon 16-Dec-13 09:57:08

Oh and the only complaint I had about the inclosures in my invites was from someone who complained about my inclusion of an information sheet- we were getting married at the other end of the country from my family (not a destination wedding, close to where DH and I lived and near his family), plus as DH had previously lived overseas, we had a lot of guests either flying in or getting the eurostar over.

So I added a sheet with a map with the hotel location, directions from the motorway, details of the nearest train station (and which station in London the trains went from), the numbers of 3 local taxi companies, details of the discount if guests booked the hotel we were getting married in, plus details of the local travelodge and a link to a council website listing local B&Bs.

I thought I was being helpful, but apparently, this should have been a separate mailing with the gift list for those who'd agreed to come and specifically asked for information, because it was presumptious to assume they would accept and would need to know these things. Apparently, it also made people feel they had to stay over and might wanted to drive home straight away.

This is the same person who complained that I should have given my 18 year old cousin his own invite rather than writing "Uncle X, Aunty Y and Cousin Z" - even though he was still living at home and doing his A levels, having turned 18, I should have treated him as a separate adult. (Cousin didn't seem offended, Aunt just seemed happy he was invited...)

I realised when it comes to weddings, some people (particularly in an older generation) seem to look for reasons to be offended.

Weeantwee Mon 16-Dec-13 09:57:12

We included a gift list in our wedding invitations (we were about to move into an unfurnished home) and our guests were delighted to have the guidance for gift buying. Young and old people appreciated it as I knew they would. I didn't write a ridiculous poem and I gave them a choice, not a demand. I guess it's a case of 'know your audience' and in this case the Bride and Groom clearly read you wrong.

WaitMonkey Mon 16-Dec-13 09:58:45

I've been to loads of weddings and have never received a gift list. I hate poem's asking for money or vouchers, but I've never received one of them in rl either. Maybe my family and friends aren't grabby. I would never attend a wedding without a gift, I usually give vouchers, but I hate the assumption that people will bring you a gift and it's acceptable to tell people what to buy.

Scholes34 Mon 16-Dec-13 10:03:54

Got married 20 years ago and had a wedding list we'd put together ourselves, administered by MIL and which gave people buying the gifts an element of choice in what they purchased, ie it was as vague as "a toaster", rather than specifying a particular brand from a particular shop. Guests contacted MIL separately to be sent a list, but postage was sooo much cheaper then. MIL loved doing this and had the opportunity to speak to guests she didn't know on the phone before the big day, because no-one relied on the anonimity of e-mail, and it was lovely for her to put faces to names at the welcoming line up at the wedding whilst my mother was greeting her extended family.

Twenty years later, I love showing the DCs which gifts are still going strong and explaining who bought them - the food processor, the Wedgwood china, the silver cutlery that comes out at Christmas, the tartan rug from friends in Scotland, the gardening equipment, the planters, the lasagne dish. Because of the way the list was constructed, there's a personal element to the gifts and these material items evoke memories of dear and treasured people in a way an elephant trek or a honeymoon contribution won't necessarily do.

I don't think it's seen as rude to put a list in with the invitation, but with a little effort, it can be avoided if the couple to be married are sensitive to this.

BananaNotPeelingWell Mon 16-Dec-13 10:08:08

I would always take a present to a wedding. I think a gift list is helpful, provided the things on it are reasonably affordable. I know people on here also get into a stew about being asked for money too; but that wouldnt bother me either.

gordyslovesheep Mon 16-Dec-13 10:10:28

I like gift lists - I would never attend a wedding without buying a gift and with a list I know I am getting something they want

we didn't have a list - we told people that attending (and travelling and paying for hotels etc) was enough - but people rang constantly asking what we wanted - in the end we asked for argos vouchers

People like lists on the whole!

limitedperiodonly Mon 16-Dec-13 10:11:55

I did this. When I receive them, I'm pleased because it saves me ringing up to ask for the list and the bride being all coy and pretending she doesn't want a present.

Doesn't bother me if people want money or travel vouchers or 200 Benson and Hedges either.

To my mind it's ruder to turn up empty-handed. Or go off-list.

I've never warmed to DH's hipster friends who bought us an expensive and spectacularly useless and ugly designer orange squeezer presumably because my taste was far too mundane.

Joysmum Mon 16-Dec-13 10:12:47

Why would anybody go to someone's wedding that they didn't even want to get and gift and a card for?

Bowlersarm Mon 16-Dec-13 10:12:47

YABVU

Very happy to receive a wedding list that I can chose something from. You would have to be very very mean not to take a gift for the happy couple, and personally I find it much more convenient to buy from a list. Plus I would much rather they had something they want, than a random gift from me that'll just sit unwanted in a cupboard.

I repeat - YABVU

Killinascullion Mon 16-Dec-13 10:12:57

We got married this summer and the party invitations specified 'no gifts please'.

It was our choice to get married and we just wanted to share the occasion with friends & family. It worked for us.

If I want a toaster or whatever, I expect to buy it myself.

I'm happy to give gifts at Christmas or birthdays but to have to buy a gift to attend a wedding celebration feels very wrong to me.

If I had to, it would be a token gesture, I think.

Nessalina Mon 16-Dec-13 10:19:43

You're right Scholes that's a nice way of doing things smile

From the POV of a wedding guest I love to get directions to a gift list in an invite, but an actual list IN the envelope I'd be a bit hmm I think, it's just a bit indiscreet maybe? A gift list generally as an idea though, yes, it's great, a list means I know I will have got the B&G something that they want, and TBH it saves me the hassle of agonising over and shopping for a gift. Money requests I find understandable but a little annoying because it causes gift inflation - you might feel perfectly fine buying a 20 quid toaster that they've asked for, but 20 quid in a card feels cheap, so you put in 30/40!

When we got married we decided to include the gift list details on the information page of our invite, along with hotel / travel details. We didn't send them with evening guest invites as that did feel a little rude, but some bought us gifts anyway which was lovely. We'd lived together for 5 years, but our house was a mish mash of Ikea and battered hand-me-downs from student days, so we upgraded a lot of kitchen stuff and it's been fab. We sent thank you cards and I have a list of who bought what so I can remember what's what and thank them again when I next see them!

sparechange Mon 16-Dec-13 10:21:18

It is totally socially acceptable. In fact, I can't remember the last time I received an invitation and it didn't have a gift list.

This 1970s throwback crap about 'you must approach my mother and ask for a list, which will then be forwarded on to you reluctantly and there will be nothing on there that costs more than 49p, hence I should be so presumtuous as to think you might actually value our friendship enough to want to buy something both nice and useful and wanted'

It might be lovely to be so nostalgic, but it just bears no resemblance to how most people live. The vast majority of my friends don't know my parents for starters, let alone have the time for this crazy charade of writing each other scented letters so we can all pretend we are in Downton bloody Abbey

openerofjars Mon 16-Dec-13 10:22:22

Why aren't there rules in the imaginary etiquette rule book about not getting shirty with people you normally like or love, even though they committed the heinous crime of doing their wedding invitations differently from how you would have done it?

I think it the height of bad manners to use tradition/etiquette etc to get in a snit at people over very minor issues of protocol.

It's a wedding invitation, not a declaration of war.

Crowler Mon 16-Dec-13 10:23:28

I really don't see it like that. Your friends can ask you. And why must you hand out a list? You can just say "I'm registered at John Lewis".

Mumoftwoyoungkids Mon 16-Dec-13 10:26:53

We got married over 10 years ago and didn't include the gift list as we felt it was rude. Anyone asking was immediately directed to list 428 at Debenhams where the cheapest gift was £1. (We were students at the time.) gifts involved things such as bedding, china, cutlery etc as we hadn't lived together so it was getting us set up in our home.

Yay us! Totally got it right etiquette wise right???

Oh no.......

Got a very cross note back from Aunty C (this was pre email days!) saying "as you obviously couldn't be bothered to do a gift lift for the benefit of your guests I assume that a cheque will be sufficient."

MrsFlorrick Mon 16-Dec-13 10:28:17

It's normal to have a gift list. Helps rellies avoid buying two toasters etc or an item the couple already have.

We had two lists with two different shops. With items ranging from £5 upwards. Lots of people clubbed together to buy larger items. And we had several people who chose to get a gift not on the list but they knew we wanted.

The gift list is a suggestion. To help you get the couple something they really need.

SugarMiceInTheRain Mon 16-Dec-13 10:28:37

I'd much rather receive a wedding list than be trying to make a stab in the dark at what the couple might like. Requests for money don't sit so well with me, though I have given a cheque to one couple who were students and would be moving round student accommodation etc for a few years so didn't really know what they needed yet.

"And of course no one would tell you in RL that something is rude, for that in itself would be appallingly rude. Silence does not indicate approval. And just because something is common does not make it right."

Frankly that just doesn't apply to ALL the people I know and whose weddings I have been to. ALL of them have sent gift lists with the invitation; SOME of them have had money requests for specific reasons. I'm assuming (fairly obviously) that if ANY of them thought it was rude they wouldn't bloody well do it themselves, now would they.

sparechange Mon 16-Dec-13 10:33:08

Crowler
I don't think anyone does hand out lists any more. I haven't seen one since the 1990s photocopied-and-posted-around-by-MIL ones

The totally normal/accepted/usual thing is for 1 sentence on the information bit saying 'if you want to buy us a gift, we have a list at John Lewis, number 12345'

You can then go onto the john lewis website or into a store and see a list of all the things they want. When you buy something, it is then removed from the list. So if you are the sort of person to leave things to the last minute, you only get the 'dregs' to chose from and have no way of knowing what was on there previously. If you get in there early, you see the whole list.

I never cease to be baffled as to how this hugely convenient and no-hassle way of doing things seems to make otherwise normal people VERY ANGRY on here.

Glittertwins Mon 16-Dec-13 10:33:08

What's wrong with a list? I'd far rather get something that the couple wanted and wouldn't get duplicated from a list. Interesting that the
OP has not come back after nearly 3 pages of posters disagreeing.

Blissx Mon 16-Dec-13 10:33:09

I think it is rude to send the gift list with the invitation. When DH and I were married we were the first grand children to do so and we put a card in saying if anyone wanted directions, accommodation details or the gift list to call PIL. No pressure then.

However, that just means it is a pain in the arse for your poor PIL having to field all of those calls and a hassle for your guests having to put in the extra leg work to find out how to even get to your wedding, just because you thought it was 'rude' to put in a printed bit of paper with all the information on. hmm

BananaNotPeelingWell Mon 16-Dec-13 10:40:18

Lol @ openerofjars 'It's a wedding invitation, not a declaration of war.' So true. I do enjoy threads like this though; seeing people getting all steamed up on mn about People Who Expect A Present. Hilariousgrin

Lesshastemorespeed Mon 16-Dec-13 10:43:49

Wedding lists are a bit of a nightmare, the cheap stuff more affordable things go v quickly. Weddings are so expensive for the guests anyway, hotels, new outfits, days off work, babysitters, hen/stag etc. you can end up feeling a little resentful spending an another £50 on some denby dish from jl that you just really can't afford.

At a recent wedding, the b&g suggested donations to a particular charity which I thought was lovely.

Crowler Mon 16-Dec-13 10:45:52

I had a wedding list. I'd say 90% of people used it, it was totally depleted. I said nothing about it in my invites, though - they asked me, my sister, etc.

MaidOfStars Mon 16-Dec-13 10:46:18

NO to any gift request included in invitations.
NO to money poems.
MAYBE to creating a list (which may include cash) to make available when guests enquire.
NO to donations to your favourite charity in lieu of gifts.

Lesshastemorespeed Mon 16-Dec-13 10:49:25

MaidOfStars why no to charity donations? Just interested to hear your point of view.

clarequilty Mon 16-Dec-13 10:50:52

It may be acceptable but that doesn't mean it isn't appalling.

Almost as bad as the 'a' list/'b'list divide you get at weddings.

mumeeee Mon 16-Dec-13 10:51:54

YABU it has always been the tradition to enclose a gift list in the Wedding invite. DH and I've been married for 29 years and we did this. It doesn't matter if you don't buy a gift but if you want to then a list is helpful.

limitedperiodonly Mon 16-Dec-13 10:52:26

And people who complain about what's on the list. One couple asked for a very expensive dinner service - plates were about £30 each.

The number of fellow guests who were bitching about how 'entitled' they were (yes, I fucking hate that Mumsnet word) when I took it that you could buy them a plate, or maybe two, and then they'd buy the rest of the service afterwards.

When I explained that, they then moaned: 'I don't want to buy just one plate. That looks mean. I think I'll get them some towels from M&S instead.'

kennyp Mon 16-Dec-13 10:56:15

if i got married again i'd say, if anyone asked, either a donation to a charity (for a nice thing) or some scratch cards for me/us (so easy to wrap and i will buy my own plates thank you very much)

i hate gift lists. so rude. it's basic etiquette in my opinion.

snowed Mon 16-Dec-13 11:00:08

YANBU. It's not traditional, normal or polite to enclose a gift list with an invitation.

An invitation is offering your hospitality. There should be no mention of presents at all. And a twee poem doesn't make it acceptable to do this either!

If people ask for suggestions, you can then send them ideas or a list.

Tailtwister Mon 16-Dec-13 11:05:16

We had a list. We put a line at the bottom of the directions sheet just saying if guests wished to see it we had a wedding gift list at ...

We did think about asking people to contact my parents, but that was just extra hassle for them when they had enough to do already. If you don't include details of a list you just get loads of enquiries as to where it is.

IME gift lists are quite normal and I prefer to buy something the couple actually wants rather than wracking my brain to think of something, especially if I don't know them particularly well. I think the trick is to ensure that there's a wide range of gifts from £10 and under to the more expensive things close relatives might want to buy. A dinner service is also great as people can buy a plate or tea cup. Nobody is expected to buy the entire thing!

I don't understand people's objection tbh. There's no obligation to buy anything, but if you do and you want an indication of what the couple might like then you can look at the gift list.

The only rude thing about a gift list is when ALL the gifts are ridiculously expensive (seen only ONE of those in my 40+ years). That bride came from a very well-off family though and seemed oblivious to "normal" people's levels of income etc. Marriage didn't last more than a couple of years either.

MasterOfTheYoniverse Mon 16-Dec-13 11:18:48

Rolling eyes!
What next?
Are we going to start the litany about having to fork out for travel expenses, and a new outfit? Oh how about the babysitiing arrangements…soooo unpractical!
Why just not politely decline the invitation if you have an issue?

ConferencePear Mon 16-Dec-13 11:56:29

I have no objection to wedding present lists, but I don't like them being sent out with the invitations. I've learned to swallow that one though because I realise that I'm out of step with the majority.
I like the lists at stores although they bring their own problems. The last time we bought a gift this way we had no thank you and we still don't know if they actually got it. It seems like a good scam for a dishonest delivery driver. If such people exist.

Topaz25 Mon 16-Dec-13 12:04:46

YANBU. We included a link to our wedding website, which had more information including a link to our registry. Guests could also ask our attendants or parents. We didn't include a gift list in the invite because the invite is about requesting the guest's presence, not presents.

Lesshastemorespeed Mon 16-Dec-13 12:05:28

MasterOfTheYoniverse! I think we should tbh.

We have 2 weddings to go to this year. One is costing us an absolute fortune, no list but request for cash in the invite. No option to decline as dd was asked to be a bridesmaid (she has been waiting for such an invite for years), without checking with us first. Hotel is costing £240, bridesmaid outfit £150 so far. And we have said no to all the pre/post meals, hen/stag do's abroad, spa treatments, planning lunches etc, and as such have been perceived to be a little 'miserable'.

The other wedding has been thoughtfully arranged to minimise costs to the guests. Relaxed dress code, very lovely note in the invite stating no gifts, or cash, or donations etc. kids invited, but not on invitation so we can choose to bring them or not. Near to affordable hotels.

Really looking forward to the second one.

Scholes34 Mon 16-Dec-13 12:11:42

Is it the done thing to expect bridesmaids/parents of bridesmaids to buy the "wear once only" outfit?

No Scholes, it isn't. The bride or her family should be buying the bridesmaid's outfits, or paying at least half for them.

WhereIsMyHat Mon 16-Dec-13 12:20:33

Oh for goodness sake, don't buy anything from it if you don't want to. It's tradition, has been for decades, if you don't like it then ignore it.

We must be terribly reasonable as we enjoy our friends we'd is, are happy to buy gifts and don't begrudge having to sped money on hotels/ travel and we can say the same for them about our wedding. What lucky people we all are to have such non judgemental friendships with one another.

MaidOfStars Mon 16-Dec-13 12:21:44

Lesshaste why no to charity donations? Just interested to hear your point of view.

Have never been that keen on being told where to give my charity money. I don't expect anyone else to necessarily agree with or support my charity choices, and expect similar discretion in return.

I'm sure a lot of the time, it wouldn't be problematic. But there ARE some charities I deliberately avoid giving to, for what I feel are very good reasons. I'd be very torn if I received a request to donate to such a charity in lieu of gifts to the happy couple (of course, if I give them a cash gift, and they donate that to said charity, there's nothing I can do about it wink).

*sits back and waits for flaming, or (from previous experience) accusations that I am a selfish uncharitable bitch who wants people to die of cancer...

Brodicea Mon 16-Dec-13 12:26:12

Hear Hear whereismyhat

I don't mind if they want gifts or money or vouchers or whatever - it's traditional to buy people presents when you go to their wedding. How crawling and indirect do you want people to be?? It's totally socially acceptable in my book - it's their bloody wedding FFS.

The bosom hoiking on here gets really annoying - there is clearly no pleasing some people!

Crowler Mon 16-Dec-13 12:32:47

We must be terribly reasonable as we enjoy our friends we'd is, are happy to buy gifts and don't begrudge having to sped money on hotels/ travel and we can say the same for them about our wedding. What lucky people we all are to have such non judgemental friendships with one another.

The same exact thing is true of me and my friends with whom I did the "circuit" in our 20's/30's. But without any mention of gifts in the invite.

snowed Mon 16-Dec-13 12:38:24

Has anyone said they don't want to buy a gift, or that they begrudge doing so in the slightest?

The debate is on whether lists should be included with the invitation or whether it's more polite to wait to be asked what you would like.

soverylucky Mon 16-Dec-13 12:42:29

I hate list but think the idea of saying please contact us if you would like a gift list is a good compromise. I find lists and requests for money quite rude.

Tapiocapearl Mon 16-Dec-13 12:59:17

If it means I can get a needed gift, that's great!

Marylou2 Mon 16-Dec-13 13:19:20

Unfortunately it is common in both senses of the word to do this.

PosyNarker Mon 16-Dec-13 13:37:40

I love these wedding threads. Only on Mumsnet do you see people competing as to how non-grabby they are.

In real life:

- Going to a wedding without a gift is tight
- Not buying a gift where you normally would because the couple / individual are what you perceive to be well off is tight
- Complaining about a couple using their wedding to upgrade their dishes or whatever is really miserable. So if you get married at 21, the family buy you nice things to set up home. If you don't meet your intended until 31, you should just be glad you bought all that Ikea shite and make do with it!

Of course you shouldn't over-extend your budget and I do think wedding lists should have items to suit a range of budgets.

When I get married I intend to commit the sin of asking for gifts, while being a high earner in an established home. I'll also 'expect' that most attendees will buy one. I'm expecting Mumsnetters outside with cats bum faces waving pitchforks at this rate grin

JoinYourPlayfellows Mon 16-Dec-13 13:41:00

"When I get married I intend to commit the sin of asking for gifts, while being a high earner in an established home."

It's not a sin, so much as a complete lack of even the most basic manners.

Which people will remark upon and think badly of you for in real life.

But maybe you are proud of being tacky and looking greedy and having people cringe when they open your wedding invitation and feeling embarrassed for you.

Ragwort Mon 16-Dec-13 13:46:25

Maid - your view is interesting but I much, much prefer charity gifts. At my age grin, I am now being invited to second if not third time around weddings and yes, I am one of these guests who will not take a present. Sometimes I have already been to the first wedding and given a gift. So I am much happier with a charity gift, even if it is a charity I don't support I accept it with good grace because this is what the happy couple have chosen. Not giving to a charity of their choice is a bit like not giving someone their choice of dinner service because you don't like it confused.

The best charity wedding gift is the one for condoms (oxfam I think) - I have given this to someone who already had about five children from different relationships grin.

I am second time around married myself and just invited five people to our wedding, strictly no gifts - I never heard if anyone was 'offended' not to have been invited, think it is unlikely.

"Which people will remark upon and think badly of you for in real life."

I have never, ever met anybody in RL who has remarked on wedding gift etiquette except elderly relatives putting pressure on couples to provide a traditional list because it is the done thing. I have never met anyone in RL who admits to eternally judging someone on their gift list.

PosyNarker Mon 16-Dec-13 13:48:26

Join Good attempt to insult me. I'll just ignore that part of your post as lacking the most basic manners etc.

Even Debrett's says gift lists are fine. I see no problem with them as long as they are not compulsory and there is a range on there to suit all tastes & budgets.

Personally I think having a wedding registry does everyone a favour. I'd rather give my friends something they want than something they really don't like and only get out when I'm round or hold onto until they can reasonably re-gift / charity shop it.

limitedperiodonly Mon 16-Dec-13 13:48:34

Only on Mumsnet do you see people competing as to how non-grabby they are

posynarker Not me. I've posted on these threads before about how acquisitive I am and how I did judge the well-off couple who bought me a non-list pair of salmon pink hand towels and then expressed amazement that their food and drink was paid for (of course) and they only had to stick their hands in the pockets for the wife's new tights. I fell down a bit there. I should have bought them wink

Of course, I just wanted the pleasure of their company. Well, his, but sadly they came as a pair.

Crowler Mon 16-Dec-13 14:02:45

I am shocked to know that Debrett's gives this the OK. I had previously considered some of their positions to be positively archaic but here they've gone bonkers modern.

I have never received a wedding invite with a gift list inside. However, I think I've only been to one or two weddings in the UK.

HesterShaw Mon 16-Dec-13 14:04:07

Oh God, this again.

It is generally the norm to buy a gift for a couple who have invited you to their wedding. Why not get something they have use for?

WHAT? IS? THE? BIG? FUCKING? DEAL?

Scholes34 Mon 16-Dec-13 14:18:51

I remember when a colleague 20 years ago won on the football pools and decided to give up her job. She threw a party for us, we had a whip round to buy her a gift. Buying a gift for someone is a nice thing to do. Doesn't really matter how much money they have.

angeltulips Mon 16-Dec-13 14:20:33

We had a list - mostly because we got married in a different continent from where we loved (my home town, before anyone gets all DESTINATION WEDDING HOW INCONSIDERATE about it) & if people had turned up w gifts we would have had to pay exorbitant shipping costs to get gifts back home.

No one seemed to mind, but perhaps they were all cursing our graspish-ness behind our backs?

snowed Mon 16-Dec-13 14:27:17

> I am shocked to know that Debrett's gives this the OK.

Debrett's isn't as good as it used to be IMHO. In many cases, it describes what most people do, rather than what's necessarily good manners. Look in one of the older ones for more sensible advice.

snowed Mon 16-Dec-13 14:30:21

Oh and Debrett's also suggest "Save the Date" cards on their website... but that's another thread grin

Crowler Mon 16-Dec-13 14:31:42

I'm not a follower of Debrett's, snowed - I can't even remember the last time I confronted an issue of etiquette. I think slavish devotion to these sorts of things is a bit outdated.

I'm curious; what is the typical reason an adult would reach for Debrett's apart from a wedding?

angeltulips Mon 16-Dec-13 14:32:18

*lived

Crowler Mon 16-Dec-13 14:32:24

You've got to send a save the date if the majority of your guests are out of town. I consider that common sense rather then etiquette.

HesterShaw Mon 16-Dec-13 14:33:23

What the chuff is Debretts and will it bring anything to my life?

Crowler Mon 16-Dec-13 14:36:24

Debrett's is the accepted UK (and beyond? I don't know?) etiquette authority.

We have Emily Post in the US.

MrsShortfuse Mon 16-Dec-13 14:38:06

It's all quite simple.

Having a wedding list = fine
Not having a wedding list = fine
Putting the list in with the invitation = rude
Giving the list to people on request = fine
Asking for cash (in with the invitation or not) = rude
Not taking a gift of any kind = rude
Giving a gift from the list = fine
Giving a gift not on the list = fine

smile

Panzee Mon 16-Dec-13 14:45:21

I disagree.
I think it's fine to put a list in with the invitation and ask for cash.
I think it's rude to go off list when buying a gift.

FunnyFestiveTableRunner Mon 16-Dec-13 14:45:34

I am delighted to get things off a gift list.I am also happy to give money as a gift. It avoids ending up with four mismatched cutlery sets like we did. That kind of waste pisses me off far more.

Panzee I had no problem with people going off-list at my wedding (but then I put the gift list cards in with the invitations, so what do I know?). The gift list, imo, was just a suggestion for people who wanted to buy us a gift and wanted an idea of what would be useful. If anyone wanted to choose something themselves that they thought we'd like, that was fine too.

Ephiny Mon 16-Dec-13 14:56:10

I do find wedding lists a bit odd, but then I find the whole complicated formal process around weddings to be quite strange, and a bit of a mystery to me. We just asked people in person, or by email or phone (depending on how we normally communicate with them) if they'd like to come along for the ceremony and have lunch/drinks with us afterwards, and that was about it. It didn't occur to me to send out paper invitations or lists.

If anyone asked what we wanted for a gift, we said 'no thanks, really we don't need/want anything, please don't go to the trouble.' Some people brought gifts anyway, which was fine, but not expected or required.

HesterShaw Mon 16-Dec-13 15:08:41

Personally, I don't give a fuck smile

If someone wants money, great. Saves me having to guess what they'd like.

HesterShaw Mon 16-Dec-13 15:09:38

And I would never dream of turning up at a wedding without a present unless they have specified a charity to give to instead.

That would be rude.

LilyTheSavage Mon 16-Dec-13 15:11:59

YABU I'm afraid. It's traditional and totally acceptable IMHO. I recently went to a wedding and the gift list went straight to a travel site where we could buy vouchers as the happy couple were going to travel to Peru next year. As they'd been living together for several years they already had all the household stuff they need and I felt that travel vouchers were a good idea. The wording on the card was very tastefully done so it didn't sound grabby. I was glad to give my friend something she really wanted.

Crowler Mon 16-Dec-13 15:16:00

If someone wants money, great. Saves me having to guess what they'd like.

I was glad to give my friend something she really wanted.

I am delighted to get things off a gift list.

I agree with all of these things. Just don't enumerate your requests in the invitation.

HesterShaw Mon 16-Dec-13 15:16:38

IN BOLD. WHAT I SAY GOES.

WaitingForPeterWimsey Mon 16-Dec-13 15:27:43

Manners change! In 1940 mirror was considered a bit grim and looking glass better. Now if you said looking glass most would laugh.

Lists in invitations used to be rude. Now no longer.

fishybits Mon 16-Dec-13 15:36:34

Traditional and the norm socially.
Very odd to do anything else.

CeliaLytton Mon 16-Dec-13 16:12:52

YABU IMO.

If you would bring a gift to a wedding, I can't see how you could take offence at being told what might be useful/needed/treasured.

I find the attitude of people who refuse to buy from a list a bit selfish, 'I want' to choose something, 'I want' them to have something to remember me by, me me me.

Most gift lists I have seen started with gifts around the £3 mark, for a bowl or serving spoon or the like therefore people can get something useful for a lot less than they would otherwise have spent on something not wanted or needed, but that the gifter wanted them to have.

I can understand it seeming grabby, but then inviting people in the first place could seem self centred and thoughtless if you wanted to turn it round that way, I mean expecting people to pay to travel or possibly stay, buy drinks for a whole night and mingle with strangers just so you can prance around being the centre of attention.

Depends how you want to look at it. I have always viewed it as, 'how lovely to be invited to x's wedding, I will be bringing a gift anyway so I'll check the list and see what they might like'

Crowler Mon 16-Dec-13 16:39:04

IN BOLD. WHAT I SAY GOES.

That's right. wink

StrangeGlue Mon 16-Dec-13 16:53:42

Only in MN land is this considered rude. Lists are normal, I didn't want one but was nagged into one because they're normal. And it's not like you include the print out in the invitation just the link. Going off list is fine, giving cash is fine, giving nothing cause you can't afford it is find.

The professionally offended need to get a hobby!

wherearemysocka Mon 16-Dec-13 16:55:38

I look at some of the tacky crap sold at places like notonthehighstreet and realise that's why people have gift lists. Why do you want to run the risk of getting something they don't want or like? As for including it in with the invitation, isn't that more convenient all round? I'd be mightily pissed off if I had to go round the houses trying to find out what someone wants all in the name of outdated etiquette.

snowed Mon 16-Dec-13 17:07:45

Yes, it's traditional to have a list. No, it's not traditional to include it with the invitation.

"YANBU OP - wedding lists used to be for couples who were setting up home for the first time so genuinely needed bed linen, crockery etc etc But these days a lot of couples have been living together for a while before they get married so already have the household items they need..."

Agree entirely with this. Just because something is traditional doesn't make it right, and I wish more people would challenge convention.

jellyandcake Mon 16-Dec-13 17:25:15

I think it's ruder to necessitate your guests phoning up unknown in-laws etc to get the gift list than just including it in the invitation to start with. That would make me roll my eyes and grumble!

I went to two weddings this summer. One requested no gifts but that guests contribute to the reception e.g by making a CD, a dish for the buffet, manning the bar for an hour, bringing decorations etc. That was lovely (I brought a gift as well) and I really liked feeling that I had done something nice for them. The other requested cash, I put £20 in a card and liked feeling I had bought them a cocktail on honeymoon. I love my friends, I was happy and grateful to celebrate their weddings and I wanted to give them whatever gift they would most appreciate. The idea that I would be so crass and unpleasant as to cringe at their requests or judge them for behaving in a completely normal, acceptable and convenient way is vile and I am very glad not to be that sort of person!

HombreLobo Mon 16-Dec-13 17:39:22

Not taking a gift of any kind = rude

All of the weddings I've been to have requested no gifts.

One requested that we bought a dish for the buffet and our own meat to cook on the bbq and I was happy to oblige

Convention is overrated

mistermakersgloopyglue Mon 16-Dec-13 17:45:58

Another one here who has never heard anyone in real life gripe about wedding gift requests, it really is just a weird mumsnet thing!

The only thing I don't like are the money request poems, bleugh! (But only because the only people I know who have done them are dicks).

mistermakersgloopyglue Mon 16-Dec-13 17:48:47

And the reason that some people ask for money now rather than wedding list is precisely because they have everything they need to set up home, but could still use some cash for conservatory/honeymoon/kitchen etc. what is the problem with that? It's not like they are getting married just for the cash in most cases

RiceBurner Mon 16-Dec-13 18:03:22

Another one here who HATES the assumption that gifts MUST be given at weddings.

At our own wedding, we stated "no gifts please" on the invitations. (It's expensive enough just to go to a wedding with transport, hotel, time off, babysitters etc.)

Most people getting married these days have the basics. In the past couples did NOT live together so needed everything. (And freq were happy with 2nd hand stuff.)

Now people are so greedy/grabby/spoiled. They want matching posh stuff. (Not just the essentials.)

If you threw a party and invited people, surely you wouldnt give them a gift list?

I totally HATE gift lists and I am not fussed about going to weddings either. So I dislike receiving wedding invitations, as I usually decline. (Unless from close family.)

If I DO decide to go to the wedding, it's purely to honour/please the couple. So that's my 'gift' to them as usually there's some expense involved in attending. And I feel that there's no need for a gift unless they are frightfully poor or unless I know EXACTLY what would please them and am willing to buy it.

Expecting a gift, (as in "it's rude to turn up without a gift") I think is VERY RUDE. And, (as in all the Xmas gift madness), makes for an overly comsumeristic society.

There are far too many occasions now where gifts are EXPECTED eg engagement party, birthday party, house warming party, Christening party, wedding party etc.

Give gifts if you like but it has all got too obligatory for my taste.

Why can't gift giving be more optional? And not always reciprocal at Xmas?

<knows very well that there are probably not many people with my POV, but maybe there are a lot of people would be very relieved if they suddenly had the burden of obligatory gift buying removed! grin >

arethereanyleftatall Mon 16-Dec-13 18:19:39

It's even more rude to start a thread then not come bacj

soverylucky Mon 16-Dec-13 18:38:28

We got married very young and didn't live together before hand. We had nothing. We had no gift list and managed to only get two duplicate presents. We got useful stuff like a dinner set, towels, sheets, cutlery etc.
I agree that weddings cost a lot of money to attend these days and couples don't need presents like they used to. Many weddings now often take place away from the home town and as a result there are often transport or accommodation costs involved. Hen do's are no longer a meal out with friends but a spa weekend. The stag do is often abroad somewhere. I hate how most weddings are these days.
Having said that I do like to purchase a gift or give money to the happy couple but I still find lists rude and out right requests for money even worse.

SatinSandals Mon 16-Dec-13 19:24:58

Another one here who HATES the assumption that gifts MUST be given at weddings.

At our own wedding, we stated "no gifts please" on the invitations. (It's expensive enough just to go to a wedding with transport, hotel, time off, babysitters etc.)

You seem to have assumed that gifts would be given, or you wouldn't have needed to state no gifts. Had you not put that they would have all turned up with one-it is what people do.

SatinSandals Mon 16-Dec-13 19:26:13

Perhaps they were all reading it and thinking 'how strange, it hadn't crossed our mind to give one'. grin

boodles Mon 16-Dec-13 19:33:52

I went to a wedding where they sent a rhyme to get money rather than gifts. I think what annoyed me more was that they didn't send a thank you.

M0naLisa Mon 16-Dec-13 19:43:33

When my brother got married they had a wedding list from John Lewis. Dad and stepmum bought a present from the list and just told me they wanted £26 hmm

trixymalixy Mon 16-Dec-13 19:45:31

I think gift lists are great and perfectly acceptable. If I'm invited to a wedding, I'm going to buy a gift. I'd like to buy them something they like and want.

Personally I'd much rather not have to phone up and ask. Much less hassle all round to point guests in the direction of a gift list.

stargirl1701 Mon 16-Dec-13 19:48:52

I agree with jellyandcake. I would be very irritated if the couple expected me to phone their parents to find out about the gift list. Most weddings I have been to I haven't met the parents until the wedding! This idea surely dates from when families lived in same village. This is not the case for most people now. I much prefer to get the card with the gift list details in the invitation. It saves on postage (important to the couple) and is more Eco friendly (an important consideration to me).

I truly don't get the angst over this. I wouldn't dream of not buying a wedding gift so the assumption I would buy one is correct. I would always prefer to buy a gift that the couple can use (again, the Eco consideration) rather than something random I think they might like.

Perhaps the thing to do is to put a link to a website on the invitation with all the wedding information - directions, venue, hotels and gift ideas.

Or is that splitting hairs?

DragonMamma Mon 16-Dec-13 20:00:13

I'm not averse to gift lists, at all.

Except the one to an evening do I had recently - where the gift list card was bigger than the actual invite and was for a well known honeymoon travel agent. When I logged on to have a look, there was NO details about what it would go towards, just a 'thanks for contributing'. How rude!

mistermakersgloopyglue Mon 16-Dec-13 20:05:03

I totally HATE gift lists and I am not fussed about going to weddings either. So I dislike receiving wedding invitations, as I usually decline. (Unless from close family.)

If I DO decide to go to the wedding, it's purely to honour/please the couple. So that's my 'gift' to them as usually there's some expense involved in attending.

Wow, some people really are totally joyless!

TheRealAmandaClarke Mon 16-Dec-13 20:07:16

YAbu.
Personally I would like to receive the invitation with a money envelope enclosed. It would take so much pressure off me. grin

VenusDeWillendorf Mon 16-Dec-13 20:24:46

Weddings are lovely.
And you bring a gift to celebrate the marriage and to set up the bride and groom. Like any party, a kid's, or granny's, you bring a gift, because it's polite, and it's expected.

For our wedding, we had a list registered, and also had a great deal with the shop, that we could buy things not bought off our list at a discount of 20%!
So I registered every crueset pot known to woman. However some old biddy aunties thought this was disgraceful behaviour, not knowing about the discount, and some of them rocked up with a couple of quid in an envelope thinking I was a grabby wench!!

Hilarious.

bUT don't get me started on my quirky single pals who thought it would be so ironic to buy me toasters, and other present clichés NOT on the list! Ha ha ha? No, not really very funny at all on the day, and they knew it!!

Just buy something on the list, and arrange your wedding the way you want.

RiceBurner Mon 16-Dec-13 21:06:03

mister .... just saying. Everyone is entitled to their opinion I think? (So please respect mine?)

I am not (completely) joyless (I hope) ... just honest about what I like to do ... and what I do not like to do. <shrugs>

I decided to add my POV to this thread as people sending out invitations need to reflect that maybe not absolutely everyone wants to be at their wedding. And not everyone is desperate to buy them a gift. (Both should be completely optional.)

In the past, I have been invited to weddings of people I don't really know, or have lost touch with. Therefore, I actually didn't feel like going. (Or sending a gift.)

It's fine/nice to be invited, but how best to refuse?

Sometimes, I felt that I HAD to go, out of politeness. The rest of the time, I had a valid excuse. (Phew!)

But once I told a friend (who I hadn't seen in DECADES) that I wouldnt be coming, mainly because I honestly didn't think I would enjoy it. (Said I would have prefer to see her later/alone, after all the years that we hadn't seen each other.)

That was a few yrs ago now, but I am hoping/planning to see her soon. She seemed to forgive me! Though I am sure she found my position strange at the time. At least I hope she saw I was trying to be sincere. (And appreciated why I didn't make up a silly reason why I couldn't come, though she wouldn't have known it was an excuse. )

Most people in the (awkward) above situation would just lie as to why (unfortunately) they won't be able to attend.

It's a shame we feel that we HAVE to lie. I wish it was a lot more acceptable to just say "no thanks" without causing huge offence because weddings IMO are usually quite boring? (All the ones I have been to at least!)

Seems like most people LIKE going to them then? (Maybe I just haven't been to a 'good' one yet?!)

Also, I would like to say that I hate the way getting married has become such a BIG DEAL, with so much money being spent and with some many the rules/stresses which can turn the brides (and family) into "bridezillas" (and/or bullies) who can't comprehend any lack of enthusiam and/or cooperation.

mister ... you seem to imply I am "joyless" JUST because I enjoy different things from you? Really? I could also say YOU were joyless ... if there was something I like to do but which you would not like? (But I hope that I wouldn't be that deliberately rude. grin )

Pigsmummy Mon 16-Dec-13 22:14:56

If you don't like the couple then decline the invite?

Absolutely not bothered in the slightest. I only go to the weddings of people I really like. And because I like them I want them to have whatever they want. So poems, lists, requests for cash to blow on a holiday, throw them all at me. I don't do offended.

DioneTheDiabolist Mon 16-Dec-13 22:46:33

Riceburner, how to refuse an invitation?shock.

You send a note congratulating your friend, thanking her for the lovely invitation and for having you in her thoughts at this time. You tell her you can't come but look forward to seeing her some time soon. You wish her well.

Sometimes a nice note is all that is needed and I can't say I'm surprised that you still haven't seen your friend.

It's normal to include a gift list. All my mother's generation seem to get very angsty if they don't receive a gift list. I d

Grr I'm quite happy for people to ask for money/experiences as well although that seems to lead to much teeth gnashing on here

Rice burner - it's just being socially polite. In the way you don't tell someone they look dreadful if they ask. But then I wouldn't feel guilted into attending a wedding I didn't want to go to.

AnAdventureInCakeAndWine Mon 16-Dec-13 22:57:31

If you can't go to a wedding, particularly if it's someone you don't see frequently, you just send a note saying

Dear Brian and Sue,

Thank you very much for the invitation to your wedding on 19 May. I'm sorry that Dave and I won't be able to make it, but we hope you have a [insert adjective of choice] day and look forward to hearing about it and seeing the photographs later.

Best wishes,

Yvonne

That's perfectly acceptable.

AnAdventureInCakeAndWine Mon 16-Dec-13 22:58:20

(Or, rather, if you can't go or just don't feel like it)

lambbone Mon 16-Dec-13 23:02:09

What WooWooOwl said.

Wedding list with sensible price range - helpful

Request for money - rude

Request for money with little poem - rude AND eyewateringly, toe curlingly embarrassing. A cousin of mine did it. My mother hasn't quite recovered yet and it was 18 months ago.

BillyBanter Mon 16-Dec-13 23:08:29

Poor brides and grooms can't do right for doing wrong.

Here's the thing.

If you include a list or ask for money, those people who like a list or giving money are happy. the people who don't like a list can ignore the list, buy nothing or buy something they've chosen themselves and hope that it will be appreciated rather than linger in a drawer.

If you don't include a list the people who don't like lists can still do exactly what they were going to do anyway but the people who like a list included have to chase one up.

Therefore including a list wins.

BillyBanter Mon 16-Dec-13 23:11:00

Slightly amused that several people said that they did or would put 'we really don't need any gifts, your presence is more than enough for us, but here is one if you really feel that you want to get us something' yet the moment someone said they never take gifts to weddings people were aghast.

I can't imagine not taking a present to a wedding, even if it was a small one, anymore than I can imagine sending the DCs to a birthday party without a gift for the birthday child.

GoofyIsACow Mon 16-Dec-13 23:41:40

Do you know, balls to the bloody lot of you the ones that think it is rude
We got married 7 years ago and did the whole money poem thing, it seemed to be the done thing and it paid for a big chunk of our honeymoon.
I dont know if people thought it rude or not, but posts like this make me feel completely sick about it, like everyone was bitching about it!
We got a few gifts as well, one of which is a set of crystal wine glasses that we have never had out of the box and have moved them from house to house!

GoofyIsACow Mon 16-Dec-13 23:43:14

'Rude and eyewateringly, toecurlingly embarrassing'

Really?! confused hmm

But so many people do it!

foreverondiet Mon 16-Dec-13 23:47:07

I agree poor taste. I always buy from the list, and fine to tell people if they ask, agree rude to put in postal invite. But I have received several invites like this and I do always buy from list so maybe I need to get over it!

I think a good compromise now is to have a link to a website about the wedding, eg directions and on the website have a link to the list.

Lilacroses Mon 16-Dec-13 23:56:21

I do know what you mean in a way OP but otoh if you don't have a list everyone phones you constantly asking what you want, unless you have stated no gifts please. Most people want to give a gift when they attend a wedding and there is little point in people wasting their money buying you things you really don't want. I say that as someone who had a total aversion to gift lists and then my very practical sil explained it to me like this and it now makes sense to me as long as it is done politely!

I think the most important thing is for the bride and groom to thank people for all the gifts they receive. I don't mind where the idea for a gift comes from (a list, a request for money, a cunning idea of my own), but I get proper hacked off if I never hear anything from the B&G saying thank you.

lessonsintightropes Tue 17-Dec-13 00:00:52

I sent out the invites with ours earlier this year to a link to a website we'd set up with details of nearby hotels and deals etc (wedding was in central London, some people were flying in long distance)... which also included a link to an electronic gift list right at the bottom explaining that the most important thing was having people with us.

OP, I'm tired, it's late, so I'm just going to say this up front - how fucking rude you are, and how little you must like the people who have invited you to their wedding because they want to share the community celebration with you - and yes, that's what this is. If any of the people I'd invited to mind were as outrageously cats bum I would have smiled politely and graciously hosted them but man you'd be off the Christmas card list. Please re-enter the 21st century and if you expect people to respond to you politely don't swear in the fucking title.

BillyBanter Tue 17-Dec-13 00:05:50

Manners are primarily about/rooted in good common sense. Enclosing a list in the first place is better manners than getting people to contact you for one.

Complaining about it is more about snobbery, not manners.

peacefuleasyfeeling Tue 17-Dec-13 00:09:54

I'm afraid I'm in the camp who inwardly raises an eyebrow at wedding lists. Most weddings I've attended in the last few years have been between salaried mature adults already living in nicely kitted out homes, many of whom have also been able to afford to marry fairly expensively. All have had the good sense to suggest donations to charities and appeals of their choice in place of personal gifts, knowing that there is nothing they themselves need which they can't afford to buy. In one case, this had a massive impact for a small local charity which received in excess of £5k, making a wonderful difference to what they were able to do in the community. We received an email update saying words along the lines of "Thanks to those of you who chose to donate to X at the time of our wedding." and some words from the directors of the charity outlining how the money would be spent. Very gratifying.

If the bride and groom were very young and of limited means, setting up home together for the first time I'd be thrilled to get the opportunity to contribute.

My most minted friend (independently wealthy, will never do a days work in her life) did however provide an extensive wedding list full of hilariously extravagant items, and that was OK too, because she wouldn't have given two hoots if nobody had bought anything.

RiceBurner Tue 17-Dec-13 00:11:27

saintly & AnAdventure ....

FYI, I immediately emailed my friend back, (after she had emailed me about her surprise engagement), re how extremely, (and very genuinely), happy I was for her.

She then told me to keep certain dates free. (So I was slightly trapped at that point.)

We lived far apart, but I still didn't want to say "sorry can't make it", (without having a SOLID/actual reason), after all the notice I had been given.

And somehow I thought enough of her, (and of our friendship), to want to tell her THE TRUTH (and hope she would understand) ie that I COULD come, but that I wasn't keen, due to the distance and having to come alone.

I had not seen her for several decades due to living in different countries. We could have made more of an effort to meet up in the intervening years. (But neither of us had. So not such close friends.)

However, I had made the effort to keep in touch over the years, (by letter/email), because I always was interested in knowing how she was.

So, (to recap), "sorry I can't come", without giving an ACTUAL prior enagagement or a good reason, when she gave me so much advance notice, would have seemed FAR more rude to me. (And quite fake.)

And, of course, I know HOW to decline. (I did so in this case by email, as there were no formal card invitations and this is how we were communciating.)

I was using the "rhetorical question" ONLY to indicate that MOST people in my situation would have decided to LIE, to avoid any embarrassment, whereas I didn't want to do that to her. (So I was asking "how to reply HONESTLY", without being too blunt or EVASIVE. That's all.)

Sometimes an explanation is EXPECTED. And sometimes honesty means you actually care MORE about that person ... ie that you don't want to brush off their invitation 'breezily' and/or lie to them?

Seems our 'friendship' has survived, as I will see her soon. But I know I risked it by opting out of her wedding in the way I did. (Decided to take that chance for the sake of integrity.)

Btw, I couldnt have invited her, (and many other old friends), to MY wedding (many years ago), but as it was abroad and would have been very costly for them, I didnt. (I knew it wouldn't have been enough "fun" for the effort/cost getting there.) So I just told them all that I was getting married very quietly, without a party. (Which was the absolute truth.) And I deliberately didn't invite them ... out of concern for THEM.
But that's just me maybe? smile

AnAdventureInCakeAndWine Tue 17-Dec-13 00:29:38

I don't think most people would lie, actually. I think most people in your position, now that you've given us more details, would honestly say "sorry, it's just too far for me to come" or words to that effect.

RiceBurner Tue 17-Dec-13 00:49:04

AnAventure ... you are kind/you mean well. (Thanks.)

But I still think it would have been a lie for me to say "sorry it's just too far for me to come", as I know, (and she knew), that I could have easily gone if I had really wanted to.

Six hours on a train. A hotel. Taxis. Hardly mission impossible! (Just a faff and tiring/costly.)

And I hate it when people tell you they "can't" come when I know they mean "can't be bothered".

Wedding are just the worst invitations to decline 'badly' as people feel it's their "big" day?!

intothenever Tue 17-Dec-13 01:03:05

I never said I hate the couple or do not take gifts to weddings...

Curious to know if people would find it rude if they were invited to a 40th and there was a piece of paper enclosed with the invite asking for gifts?

I am being pretty arsey about this, I know. Wedding is in another country and they don't bloody deliver if you order online so I have to go to the bloody dept store on the way to the bloody wedding. In Sydney.

PS those of you who think this is a tedious subject that has been done to death, I won't be at all offended if you find a thread that is more suited to you.

intothenever Tue 17-Dec-13 01:09:24

AND there is now nothing left on the list except for plates so I have to get them plates whether I like it or not. And they are millionaires, so it'snot like they can't buy their own plates while I buy them something from the heart!

BillyBanter Tue 17-Dec-13 01:19:17

you don't have to give them anything. Travelling to another country is more than special enough a commitment to someone's wedding day. If they are twatty about that then they ABU.

VinoTime Tue 17-Dec-13 01:26:08

"We're getting married!"

Uh... And?

I mean, congratulations and all, but you didn't cure cancer. So why on top of all the travel expenses, the hotel bookings, the cattery fees for my pet and the outfits I now need to make/buy, do I have to then go and buy you an expensive gift off your 'list' because you decided to get married or contribute to the luxurious honeymoon you decided to book? hmm

Sorry, but I don't think so.

My best friend is getting married next summer and I've now had to shelve any hopes I had of taking my daughter away on a stupidly cheap holiday in June because the measly few pennies I've managed to bank for it have to go towards covering the in excess of £400-£500 it's going to cost me to attend this wedding. I'm a single parent on a low income. I can't afford that and help a bride/groom with their indulgent John Lewis wish list/two weeks laying in the sun.

I'm using my work discount and saving any money off coupons like mad so that I can buy her a nice bottle of champagne as cheaply as I possibly can. Frankly, fuck the list. I object!

I guess I don't understand why couples can't just put in a small note to say, "Your presence on our day is all that matters to us. No gifts please." Buy your own patio furniture/washing machine/Nintendo Wii you tight gits, it's costing me a kidney just to attend! grin

BillyBanter Tue 17-Dec-13 01:30:27

If you're best friends then presumably you know each other well enough to know the others rough financial situation and well enough to be able to day 'I'm not in a position to buy a gift'.

Anyone who thinks their enclosed list is more than an invitation to buy a gift from the list is BU.

intothenever Tue 17-Dec-13 01:31:29

Exactly, VinoTime, it is costing me a fucking FORTUNE to get to this wedding and now there is clearly an expectation that I spend A$100 on the gift (I gather they are expecting more than one plate grin) and I would have spent more like $40 (but on something I had actually put some thought into.) I do understand people's arguments for the last but it just irks me. So there. grin

intothenever Tue 17-Dec-13 01:31:56

arguments for the list, not the last!

BillyBanter Tue 17-Dec-13 01:32:47

Can the plates be bought separately? I've seen that done on wedding lists.

intothenever Tue 17-Dec-13 01:33:45

Yes, but I can't turn up with one dinner plate, surely??

FluffyJumper Tue 17-Dec-13 01:47:56

So buy them something from the heart then. And if they don't want that then they're not the sort of people you should care about anyway.

FluffyJumper Tue 17-Dec-13 01:49:34

And I would totally turn up with one dinner plate. If they're millionaires.

jellyandcake Tue 17-Dec-13 04:48:54

So don't buy a gift. I got married fairly young and most of my friends were students. Attending the wedding was expensive for them so I never expected a gift. Someone travelled from Japan and explained she couldn't afford a present as well. I wasn't remotely offended and I'm not a millionaire. People include lists because it makes it easy for the guests who want to buy one. I maintain that it is very rude to expect these people to chase a list. However, if they are actually your friends they will not mind in the slightest if you don't buy a gift and they will understand, especially if you travel a long way.

People complaining about well-off mc couples having lists - maybe if their social circle is similarly comfortable to them they don't see it as an issue? Because it's completely normal and if you didn't read Mumsnet you would never come across the unpleasant carping that accompanies pretty much any wedding invitation?

nooka Tue 17-Dec-13 05:30:54

We had a list 20 years ago, and so did everyone else in our family who got married around about then. In those days it was a little slip from the department store. I'm sure some people thought it crass, but I'd not like to have been like my big sister who did get the traditional 10 toasters, which as she was setting up house was a bit sad.

Dh and I really enjoyed putting our wedding list together, and 20 years later we are still using many of the items and thinking of the people who gave them to us. Many of our friends were students and so gave us small gifts (one plate, some teaspoons etc) and we certainly didn't resent it!

Last two family weddings were both much older couples who did have their homes set up, but I still would have liked them to have lists so that we could give them things that they would treasure through their marriages as we have. All their wedding details were on a special website which I think is normal and sensible, so no need to provide seperate details about present lists anymore I guess.

YABU - it's a wedding invitation, not a wedding invite, BTW.

The gift lists aren't compulsory purchases, you know. hmm
If you don't like/can't afford the gifts, then get something else or don't bother at all! Or get them a gift card to the value that you wanted to spend!
Just like an invitation isn't a summons (the clue's in the name).

I have actually only bought one plate off a wedding list before, having said that. But there was a group of friends all going, and we all bought one or 2 items from the dinner service list, so it looked a bit like a group present, but we only bought what we could afford (we discussed it as a group to make sure that we made sufficient indent into the dinner service list to make it a good option)

intothenever Tue 17-Dec-13 06:39:14

PinkFondantFancy I'm not English and invite is common parlance here. You are quite correct that invite is not technically a noun. My apologies for offending your sensibilities.

You're over thinking riceburner. If someone hasn't seen you in 20 years & you've been invited they're obviously having a huge wedding & have invited every man and his dog. It doesn't matter what reason you give for not attending - they just want to know whether you'll be there or not to sort out their finances. And a save the date card doesn't 'trap' you - you can say no still.

My mother & her generation hyperventilate without a wedding list so I always inwardly curse when someone doesn't send one as I'll have weeks of my mother wondering who to t

To ring/what to buy etc

meditrina Tue 17-Dec-13 06:53:57

DSis was married 20 or so years ago, and definitely did not send out a list with the invitations, because it was so rude and grabby. It wasn't universal then by any stretch to ask for a gift before someone has indicated they are minded to offer one.

There was a list, though, but only for those who actually asked for it.

I don't think anyone objects to having a list per se. And no-one would criticise you to your face about sending out a pre-emptive "gimme" request (just people generally don't day what they really think of other aspects of your wedding, clothes/appearance in general, or choice of DC names etc, etc)

Lists are sensible. Sending them to people before they ask for one is rude.

God I hate having to contact unknown in laws to track down whether there is a gift list- just put the bloody thing in with the invitation or put a link to a website where I can find out. I want to bring a gift, I don't want to spend hours working out what to give. If I'm declining the invitation (in a socially acceptable way rather than insisting on telling the truth) then I'll ignore the gift list.

The only think I request of a gift list is that it has a wide range of prices. We ended up with 2 rolling pins because 3 impoverished student friends went for the £1.99 option - but one was too embarrassed to declare it to Debenhams on purchase) this was in the days before you could do anything like that online). I told him not to be a doughnut & he didn't have to buy anything. Think of him every time I use my rolling pin (we were young & setting up home together do ticking some mumsnet etiquette boxes there).

Honestly only on mumsnet...

2 people for 2 rolling pins...

jellyandcake Tue 17-Dec-13 07:44:54

People's language on here is so harsh - people with lists are grabby, greedy, grasping, rude, embarrassing, on and on. Well, do you know what really is graceless and vulgar? It's when someone values you enough to invite you to their wedding and you respond by insulting them anonymously on the internet.

lessonsintightropes Tue 17-Dec-13 08:39:36

Way to drip feed OP. If you're travelling overseas then unless they are family or equivalent I don't think the etiquette is to buy a present, particularly given the non-delivery.

However I second what Jellyandcake said - how hurt do you think the bride would be if she could read this nasty rant?

winkywinkola Tue 17-Dec-13 08:43:15

Hear hearJelly.

So many seem to resent helping couples set up in life.

Don't go to wedding if gifts make you so bitter.

Simple.

Ragwort Tue 17-Dec-13 08:46:52

Seriously, you do not have to take a gift. If the wedding is overseas then quite honestly your friends should be delighted you have accepted and are grateful for your presance.

All this angst over weddings .............. why do people accept the invitations if they result in so much heartache; I have quite happily sent 'regrets' to a number of wedding invitations, no one is remotely offended if you don't go probably pleased to save money.

To the Op. further up who is a struggling student, surely a 'good friend' would accept that your financial circumstances make it difficult for you to attend her wedding and would hate to think that by going you are putting yourself into even more financial difficulties. Just.say.no.I.am.unable.to.attend.

jellyandcake Tue 17-Dec-13 08:51:28

I wasn't just referring to the OP, it's more the irony of all the people gasping outrage at the terrible social faux pas of including a gift list with invitations but being totally unaware of how unpleasant it is to criticise one's friends and family in such a vitriolic fashion on a public forum.

I think good manners are rooted in consideration for others. Therefore including the gift list is good manners - those who wish to buy a gift can do so without having to go to any extra trouble but there is no pressure to buy anything (all the wording I have seen is along the lines of 'we do not expect a gift, however, if anyone wishes to buy one the list is at.. ). There is nothing good-mannered about complaining that your hosts are grasping, rude, awful people when they are in fact doing what most people do.

The people with an issue about gift lists have never been in receipt of 5 toasters, three electric blankets, two dreadful sets of china, two "heirloom" items that you couldn't give away with a packet of cereal, seven sets of glasses not one of which matched the other, one ornament that probably was given away by a cereal company, three carving sets, three sets of cutlery (none matching), plus two tablecloths which didn't fit the dining table, & a set of odd glass things which we could never work out a use for.
And no bloody receipts.

Gift lists are a blessing for the couple, although it took me a short while to get over the initial "entitled" reaction when they first appeared on the scene.

AnAdventureInCakeAndWine Tue 17-Dec-13 09:15:17

I still think getting het up over a distinction between "I'm not keen due to distance" and "It's too far for me to come" is splitting hairs. AFAICS they mean the same thing. After all, the only people who really and truly CAN'T make a wedding are those in intensive care on life support, or possibly astronauts whose tour of duty on the space station had already started when the date was announced. Everyone else is just choosing to give priority to something else, whether that be another social engagement, or not making a 12-hour round trip by train, or keeping their job by not taking unauthorised leave, or having money to spend on something else, or watching re-runs of Grand Designs on television.

If you've lost touch with your friends to such an extent that they wouldn't know whether you were on life support or in outer space then you probably shouldn't be attending the wedding anyway. Otherwise, there's nothing wrong with using "can't", "too far" or "too expensive" in their generally-accepted meanings of "not actually a physical impossibility, but on balance under the circumstances impractical / too far / too expensive."

As someone has already said you don't actually usually give the reason anyway. You give apologies for bring unable to attend & then you wish the happy couple well.

TheRealAmandaClarke Tue 17-Dec-13 10:33:52

There's a distinct lack of generosity of spirit and purse around weddings.
Tbh, I feel stressed at the thought of lavish overseas hens and stags because they put so much pressure on guests, and I can see that weddings do require some input from guests.
However, The nicest ppl I know are the ones who are always pleased to receive an invite to a wedding. They are happy for the couple because they love/ like them and feel chuffed to be included in the celebrations. They look forward to the day, plan what to wear and are mindful to choose a gift that suits the B&G along with their own budget.
The miserable bastards I know are griping about the B&G before they've even opened the envelope. They should probably send out a memo with their Christmas cards (of they do them) reminding everyone to never invite them to a wedding.
I think I like the happy ones best.

emblosion Tue 17-Dec-13 10:39:38

Meh. Gift list normal surely? If you don't want to go send regrets, end of.

I don't think it's at all rude to have a list - there's no obligation attached to it. If you don't want to buy a gift, well, don't.

Snowbility Tue 17-Dec-13 13:28:37

When we got married we knew lots of people would have to travel, many by plane and stay a couple of nights in a hotel, it was simply too much to expect a gift from them as well. I really wanted as many people to come as possible, the gifts were fairly irrelevant.
I have bought from a gift list but the experience feels as empty as handing over a cheque - no thought required....now I just hand over the chq.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Tue 17-Dec-13 14:19:16

I don't like fake We just want you there but if you really want to give us something then money towards X would be lovely. If you want money, just ask.

A cousin was adamant she didn't want anything and didn't make any alternative suggestions. Much more genuine.

jellyandcake Tue 17-Dec-13 14:42:28

But Toffee perhaps it is genuine - they won't mind if people can't afford/don't want to give a gift but are happy to accept gifts from those who want to give them. I have never been to a wedding where I didn't want to give something. If you assume your friends and family are being 'fake' and grasping then it doesn't sound like you like them very much. It doesn't make someone morally superior because they are 'adamant' about not receiving gifts. A lot of guests genuinely want to give!

limitedperiodonly Tue 17-Dec-13 16:13:34

You give presents to people because you want to make them happy, don't you? And you give them what you want, rather than what you think is best.

There are conventions about the giving of presents - birthdays, Christmas, weddings, Christenings, confirmations and dinner/housewarming parties with a bottle of wine or box of chocolates in my book.

Other people might think of other occasions.

I still think badly of the couple who could afford a decent present but turned up to my wedding, paid for in entirety by my mother, with a couple of cheap towels.

I detected a bit of: 'Limited's an entitled cow with her list and fancy-pants wedding. Let's rummage in the unwanted presents pile for her.'

No matter. My wedding was fantastic. Our generosity, or rather my mother's, to our guests was fantastic. Their response was poor. They were embarrassed by their mean present and undoubtedly mean sentiments, so they bloody well should have been.

I was the picture of serenity while I accepted their mumbled apologies grin

And before anyone says I was an entitled cow for letting my mother pay: she was brooking no argument. That's the way it goes in my family. I've paid her back with other things over the years so feel my account is settled.

limitedperiodonly Tue 17-Dec-13 16:15:14

Sorry you give them what they want

Anything else is arrogance and it would be better to give nothing.

Crowler Tue 17-Dec-13 16:30:56

Is there actually anyone who objects to a wedding list?

Very few.

It's the inclusion in the invitation that's rankling to some.

I agree it's an act of hubris to give someone you don't know well something that YOU think is great.

I love buying presents. I love going to weddings. But I find the mention of a gift in an invitation to be unpleasant.

I don't think it's done very much outside of the UK. I may be wrong.

Topseyt Tue 17-Dec-13 18:09:07

I got married in 1993. We had a wedding gift list with M & S.

We didn't put the list as such in with the invitation, but included a little card stating where our list could be found IF guests wished to use it.

My own parents were totally horrified at the idea of a "wedding list" at all (which I had anticipated, and had therefore presented to them as a fait accompli). They were of the opinion that "you cannot possibly do something like that, its rude and nobody will want to use that!!" They actually then quietly used the list themselves and bought several of the major items on it. So did the wider family they had insisted would be so against the idea. All used the list, and all said they liked it for guidance.

No further criticisms were ever made of my wedding list, and when my sister got married a few years later she had one which was accepted without any questions.

Wedding lists don't tie guests to using them, and not all do. They are guidance, and there is NO reason why they cannot be mentioned in the invitation. It is normal. Use it if you want to. Do your own thing if you want to, but then you risk getting something the couple either already have or didn't want anyway.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Tue 17-Dec-13 18:33:27

jellyandcake - I take offence at your assumption. I was not talking about anyone I know, I was giving an opinion.

Shesalwaysright Tue 17-Dec-13 18:42:42

Seem to me to be very sensible to send a gift list with the invites. Otherwise the poor guests have got to go through hassle of ringing up to find out what the couple want AND whichever poor sod holds the list has got to handle 50 upwards phone calls from people wanting to know what the happy couple would like. If you're not going, or no longer know them ell, just send them a card. Hardly seems a major issue.

jellyandcake Tue 17-Dec-13 18:46:10

Sorry - I found the assumption that saying you don't expect gifts but there is a gift list is automatically 'fake' offensive but didn't actually mean I think you personally dislike your friends and family, rather that in general it sounds like an assumption someone would make about someone they didn't like. I get the impression that a few people on this thread find a wedding invitation a terrible imposition rather than a joyful thing. Sorry for causing offence though, I could and should have worded it better.

HesterShaw Tue 17-Dec-13 18:47:42

I've thought of my final word on the subject, thank goodness.

We went to two weddings thus summer. One of them had a little card in with the invitation saying, if you would like to buy us a gift, we have most things we need for the house, so what we'd really love is a honeymoon to Ireland, therefore all contributions would be most gratefully received. The other made no mention of presents. On being asked, they said "Oh nothing, no really anything would be lovely.. " Not being the sorts to turn up at a wedding with nothing for the couple we bought them a nice lampshade. These were both in August.

A month later we had a lovely letter from the Ireland honeymooners, thanking us for coming and for the cheque, with a description of where they'd stayed and what they'd seen and so on. Still waiting for acknowledgment of the other.

I'm very sure I know whose manners are nicer and nothing would change my mind, despite people bellowing how "grabby" and common they are smile

AvonCallingBarksdale Tue 17-Dec-13 18:51:42

How bizarre confused I don't know anyone in RL who would be upset/offended by the inclusion of a wedding list in the invitation. Every wedding we've been to, including our own, had a gift list with a note in somewhere along the lines of "We really hope you can celebrate with us. There is no obligation to buy a gift, but if you wish to, we've included a list to make life easier for you." Just tradition, innit! You surely wouldn't expect to accept someone's hospitality and not take a present along.

KhunZhoop Wed 18-Dec-13 08:07:48

NOBODY knows anyone IRL who objects to gift lists, either in the invitation, or anywhere else. Competitive offence-taking at tiny things is one of the shittiest of MN memes.

echt Wed 18-Dec-13 08:34:07

I don't think it's about taking offence. To mention gifts in a wedding invitation has been considered poor etiquette for many years. It implies that the invitee is such a clod that they would turn up empty-handed.

Crowler Wed 18-Dec-13 08:37:57

Competitive offence-taking at tiny things is one of the shittiest of MN memes.

That's just silly. I'm sure you can find some "tiny" thing that you don't agree with (no one's offended, actually) that someone else DOES agree with, and then they can accuse you have having shitty memes.

KhunZhoop Wed 18-Dec-13 10:24:28

Have either of you RTFT?

TheBigJessie Wed 18-Dec-13 10:38:18

Ah, it's ages since we had a good wedding list thread!

Are you sitting down and ready to listen? <settles down herself >

Once upon a time, people didn't have lists like they do now. Because they lived in tiny communities, and their entire families talked to each other about it all.

Dorothy would tell everyone she's got some bedding, and Hilda would have done towels, and Frank would have done cutlery. It's a bit like organising Christmas presents in my family.

These days, things are a tad different, and I don't know every single wedding guest at my ex-flatmate's wedding, and so naturally I am reluctant to call 60 complete strangers up to ask if anyone else has bought Fiona and Shrek a wok.

Fortunately, Debenhams and Argos have risen to the demands of the modern age, and provide wedding list services!

Panzee Wed 18-Dec-13 10:40:20

So from what I can tell it's ok to have a wedding list but not ok to talk about it, because that's grabby. grin

winkywinkola Wed 18-Dec-13 10:41:17

Echt, it doesn't imply that the invitee is a clod at all. That is an example of offence taken where there is absolutely none intended.

A gift list included in the invitation envelope means please feel free to choose a gift from this list of stuff that we really like/need. NOT the the b&g assume you'll turn up empty handed if we don't put the list in. To think that about gift lists is indeed odd.

HesterShaw Wed 18-Dec-13 10:44:33

Now look, I think I had the final word on the subject, beyond all further debate (see above)

HesterShaw Wed 18-Dec-13 10:49:27

Though Pander I think you may have assessed the situation nice and succinctly.

Ps has anyone ever encountered the word "grabby" outside of MN?

HesterShaw Wed 18-Dec-13 10:49:53

Panzee not Pander. Silly phone.

Well there's always this fellow - known as Grabby Crabby. Not entirely sure that he asked for money/crystal decanter & glasses for his wedding though, he's just a bit of a klepto. fgrin

limitedperiodonly Wed 18-Dec-13 17:37:20

Ps has anyone ever encountered the word "grabby" outside of MN?

No. Nor entitled used in the MN way.

I realise I'm entitled in that I expect to be able to do the things I want to do so long as the only thing I hurt is other people's ludicrously heightened sensitivities.

glasgowsteven Wed 18-Dec-13 17:45:10

Getting married next year, we live together, in a rented furnished flat, we dont need any "stuff" we dont want money, a bit grabby for us.

We were at three weddings last year.

One had a wedding list (SIL to be, both lawyers, 1/4 million pound house in glasgow...) their gift lift included canteen of Silver cutlery, X Box and a Pizza Cutter......we got them the pizza cutter....

2 other weddings...

neither asked for anything...neither got anything.....

Until August this year we were both students....and beyond skint

kerala Wed 18-Dec-13 18:06:29

I love them. You can sit in the warmth of your house and buy the couple something you know they want which will be delivered to them then you can think no more of it. I don't like it when there isn't a list worry I will get them something they don't want which is a waste.

"So many seem to resent helping couples set up in life"

What I'm reading Winky is that many people (including myself) are questioning gift lists for people who have already set up home. They simply don't need anything for the house. They may want better shit for their house, but they don't need anything. It's not what wedding gifts are traditionally for is it. I'd be chuffed to help a couple who were genuinely setting up home together and had nothing, or were so poor they were very short of things, but to buy stuff for a couple who have all they need, well, that jars on me I'm afraid.

Namechangersanon Wed 18-Dec-13 18:44:42

My dsis wanted a 12 place silver cutlery set costing £4k+ she asked people to buy bits of it, the response was not great. She needed nothing and 15 years on all her wedding gifts are at my parents house as they were too much bother to ship overseas.

Crowler Wed 18-Dec-13 18:58:00

I can't see the problem with registering for sterling silver. This is a pretty normal wedding present as far as I can tell.

winkywinkola Wed 18-Dec-13 18:59:49

Livid, then do you go to a party like a wedding empty handed?

snowed Wed 18-Dec-13 19:50:47

> Every wedding we've been to, including our own, had a gift list with a note in somewhere along the lines of "We really hope you can celebrate with us. There is no obligation to buy a gift, but if you wish to, we've included a list to make life easier for you." Just tradition, innit! You surely wouldn't expect to accept someone's hospitality and not take a present along.

Hardly any weddings I've ever been to have included a gift list with the invitation, or any mention of it. Gift lists may be traditional but enclosing it with the invitation isn't.

Obviously you wouldn't go without a present, but that doesn't mean it has to be presumed in the invitation. It's up to the giver to decide to bring a gift, rather than the couple suggesting it first.

echt Wed 18-Dec-13 20:19:20

winkwonkola, possibly I shouldn't have written clod, more like unaware of social niceties.

This whole etiquette stems from rather grand weddings in the past, which is where the formality comes; it's just that now so many people have rather grand weddings but don't follow the etiquette, which is their choice.

I'm puzzled as to why you assume I've taken offence at this faux pas. I don't; it's just not one I'd commit myself. It's unbearably vulgar to include gift suggestions in the invitation; they should be separate and by request of the invitee. Yes, it's more trouble, but there you go.

ARealPickle Wed 18-Dec-13 20:33:45

Really snowed? No link to John Lewis/debenhams/website or anything?

All the ones I've been to have - or a link to a website that helps to "buy" bits of experiences for a honeymoon or similar.

Its not literally a printed list of 100 items or so, but a small card from the department store or a link mentioned with the directions.

stubbs0412 Wed 18-Dec-13 20:43:18

It's not unreasonable or unacceptable. It's the done thing, so to speak. People want to buy a gift and would prefer it to be something that's wanted. How would you have done it? Or if you are married what did you do?

DirtyDancingCleanLiving Wed 18-Dec-13 20:54:47

I cringe at gift lists or notes/poems (especially poems) that ask for money or vouchers. I just think asking in advance for a present (any present) is incredibly crass. I'm aware i'm probably in the minority here.

Df and I are getting married next year and don't intend on asking for anything. If people want to give a gift/money/vouchers then they will.

I don't personally want any gifts that are only given because they're asked for. I'd rather have none at all.

BillyBanter Wed 18-Dec-13 21:00:15

"I don't like fake We just want you there but if you really want to give us something then money towards X would be lovely. If you want money, just ask."

I don't see anything fake in that.

Shockingundercrackers Wed 18-Dec-13 21:07:07

We invited 100 guests to our wedding with no mention of presents. As far as I know this bothered precisely no one and we ended up with incredible thoughtful gifts that we would never dreamed up ourselves. Not a single toaster either.

Best of all, 4 years on, whenever I use a present i think of our day and our lovely friends - and it always makes me smile.

flowerygirl Wed 18-Dec-13 21:25:02

I am astonished anyone would go to a wedding without a gift! Height of rudeness! I have a friend who hasn't given a gift at my or my friend's weddings...we've all discussed it amongst ourselves and just don't get what is going through her head that she thinks it's acceptable!

Makes me laugh some on this thread think it's grabby to put a list in. But it's ok to enjoy the 3 course meal, entertainment, transport, free bar without showing your gratitude!?

I'd rather a list/request for money clearly stated in the invite. Otherwise you've got to call the bride up and ask what they want...they then get this call 100+ times! Pain in the hole!

limitedperiodonly Wed 18-Dec-13 22:11:05

many people (including myself) are questioning gift lists for people who have already set up home. They simply don't need anything for the house. They may want better shit for their house, but they don't need anything. It's not what wedding gifts are traditionally for is it. I'd be chuffed to help a couple who were genuinely setting up home together and had nothing, or were so poor they were very short of things, but to buy stuff for a couple who have all they need, well, that jars on me I'm afraid

Do all you wedding present refusniks really agree with this? Seems terribly mean-spirited to me.

When I married I moved from my parents' house into my married house, so that would be all right by you lot, so long as I didn't ask for anything too nice, wouldn't it?

However, I could have bought all my things, so maybe it wouldn't have been all right.

These days the odd madly generous person buys me birthday presents and I'm expecting some totally undeserved and wildly impractical Christmas presents soon. I reciprocate. Is that wrong?

Thank fuck we're not on each other's Xmas lists.

SomethingkindaOod Wed 18-Dec-13 22:15:53

We asked for Argos vouchers in the wedding invite grin
We were, according to some on this thread half right about it though, we were on the bones of our arses when we moved in together with a tiny baby and everything down to the carpet in our bedroom was second hand, even the kettle. So when we eventually decided to get married we asked for vouchers to start replacing things. DH was working as a printer at the time and actually printed the flaming gift request into the invite blush, I'm rather glad MN wasn't around at the time for that one...

limitedperiodonly Wed 18-Dec-13 22:17:20

I'm just trying to think of the Soviet-style utility wedding list to please people:

Saucepan (large, for the boiling of bones in X1)
Matches (safety, for lighting of single gas ring X1 - approx 50 per box, two thirds probably too damp to work)
Potatoes (mouldy. As many as you want.)

Enjoy comrades, for tomorrow we die gloriously.

BillyBanter Wed 18-Dec-13 22:18:05

It's rude to supply a wedding list but also rude not to take a gift?

Being British is very complicated.

limitedperiodonly Wed 18-Dec-13 22:20:38

Being British is very complicated

Really? I've always found it quite easy.

Maybe I'm French and all these years I haven't realised.

BillyBanter Wed 18-Dec-13 22:21:57

Read this thread, limited. It's obviously not at all straight forward.

limitedperiodonly Wed 18-Dec-13 22:23:45

Oh, I've read quite a bit billy but if you think I need edited highlights go ahead.

MrsGrasshead Wed 18-Dec-13 22:25:25

I think every wedding I've been too there's been a gift list with the invitation. I have no problem at all with it. Otherwise I'd have to contact them and ask them what they want. It just saves them sending out letters twice and dealing with a load of phone calls.

BillyBanter Wed 18-Dec-13 22:26:48

I doubt it would help.

Intothenever - we had dinner plates that could be bought individually on our wedding list, because we wanted to have some things that only cost a fiver - and if someone had bought us one plate, I would have been just as grateful for that as for six of them or whatever. And if someone couldn't afford a gift at all, it made no difference to me at all - I wouldn't have dreamt of judging them. To be honest, it didn't occur to me to cross check the guest list and the list of people who'd sent gifts, so I couldn't tell you if people all bought gifts or not.

As someone up thread said, the whole thing is a minefield, and it seems as if whatever the bride and groom do, someone is going to be offended.

HesterShaw Wed 18-Dec-13 22:47:45

No one has replied to the point I made about the couple who said oh we don't want anything, oh ok, just get whatever you like, I'm sure it will be lovely, who then singularly failed to acknowledge their present. This is compared to the couple who said in their invitation, thank you but we have everything we need for the house. If you'd really like to buy us a gift, what we'd like most of all is a honeymoon to Ireland - they then wrote us a lovely chatty letter thanking us very much for the cheque. Who has better manners? Who? I demand to know your opinion! grin

lessonsintightropes Wed 18-Dec-13 22:53:01

Hester maybe people didn't reply because it's totally obvious that the couple who wrote to thank you are the nicer people and appropriately showing gratitude, and this doesn't fit with the weird anti-list camp.

I wrote to all our guests to thank them for their attending our wedding (and to thank them for gifts where appropriate) a week after returning from honeymoon. I did have a list although I didn't include it with the invite but did include a link to a website with more information about hotels, transport etc, which also had a link to a gift list for us (which also included gifts from £11 up).

However I'm clearly an ill-mannered, grasping cow in the eyes of a number of the people in this thread who I am extremely grateful not to be related to or friends with. Nasty, mean, snobbish and unkind (looking at you OP for starters).

HesterShaw Wed 18-Dec-13 23:07:50

Thank you for indulging me lesson flowers. I too had a contemptible wedding.

Surely it's completely obvious that it's not as black and white as "people who have gift lifts and requests for money are rude, cheap, grabby and common and people who don't acknowledge that wedding presents are expected are much more classy".

lessonsintightropes Wed 18-Dec-13 23:25:43

To be honest I think the much greater sin is to turn up to a wedding without a gift. I wouldn't consider it. If like the OP I was travelling some distance then I'd bring more of a token from home rather than something from a list, but in any other circumstances would think it incredibly cheap not to buy a gift. And I've been to 8 this year not including my own from every possible part of the social spectrum (massive Jewish wedding in central London, Arab wedding in a country house hotel, various anglo ones and a Dutch wedding) - lists at each and every one. Not an inexpensive year - but important to me that my friends felt that their special day was marked!

Hester - dh and i split up writing the thank-you letters so he was supposed to write to his friends and relatives, and I wrote to mine. We got married in the August, and when I was writing the christmas cards, I found out dh hadn't got round to writing his thank-yous! Is it possible that has happened in your case?

HesterShaw Wed 18-Dec-13 23:41:48

No idea! They were joint friends. I'm not going to look round for excuses for them.

TheRealAmandaClarke Thu 19-Dec-13 06:04:44

Some ppl don't write thank you cards.
It's a little bit rude IMHO.
I don't think gift lists are rude. Even with the invite.
You're right, it isn't black and white.
I don't think writing a thank you card absolves anyone of prior rudeness though. I attended a wedding where the bride sent beautiful and thoughtful thank you letters for gifts/ attendance. But I was still annoyed that the arrangements for the wedding itself had been so ridiculously difficult for me that I resented attending. The letter didn't make up for that tbh.

TobyLerone Thu 19-Dec-13 06:19:11

but to buy stuff for a couple who have all they need, well, that jars on me I'm afraid

I have all I need, but my mum still buys me a Christmas present. My grandad definitely has all he needs (he's 85), but we still buy him things on Christmas and birthdays.

How bloody mean and ridiculous.

I love a wedding list. We've just had a wedding invitation with a poem asking for money which is so tacky (as is the whole invitation) I'd love to share it on here but I daren't.

TheRealAmandaClarke Thu 19-Dec-13 06:25:48

We didn't have a gift list, for which I received complaints.
I felt uncomfortable asking for gifts and didn't want ppl to think they needed to buy presents but it us made it difficult for ppl.
It also meant I have some things now cluttering up my house that I really could do without, but don't have the heart to get rid of.
You just can't win.

I agree with tobylerone above.

nooka Thu 19-Dec-13 06:33:24

Seems a bit unfair to say that those who find love later in life shouldn't get presents, especially if you yourself did. On the other hand the present isn't some sort of quid pro quo for the privilege of being invited to an expensive party!

You should invite people to your wedding because they are important to you and you want to celebrate together, and you should give a gift for pretty much the same reasons. I didn't give a wedding present to my brother because he needed anything but because I love him and wanted to mark his wedding with something he and his lovely wife will (I hope) use regularly and think of their special day. I wish they had had a list though as I might have got their gift quite wrong (my other sister swopped the present I gave them for something else as it wasn't quite their taste - the perils of buying off list!)

Nooka and Toby - very wise words!

CuChullain Thu 19-Dec-13 10:54:37

With you on this Livid.

I have no issue buying a small thoughtful gift for a wedding but in recent years some of the wedding lists I have seen really smack of a more cynical move to get some high end luxuries with scant thought as to whether some guests would be in a position to purchase anything from it. Long gone are the days when marrying at 18 and moving straight from the family home into an empty marital home is the norm, these days couples have been living together for years and generally have all the essentials. Wedding lists just seem like an opportunity to ‘upgrade’ things. None of my sisters, nor my brother had wedding lists, they felt awkward asking for guests who have already forked out a decent sum on hotels/transport/outfits to dig again into their pockets for things that were ‘nice to have’ items but certainly not needed. I am getting married next year and the thought of a wedding list has not even crossed our minds. We know we might get the odd auntie insisting that she gets something for us in which case we would ask them to make a donation to a charity of our choice. There seems to be a certain whiff of ‘present entitlement’ on these type of threads, ‘its not fair, they got to have a list so why can’t I’. Surely the greatest gift is having all your family, friends and loved ones there to celebrate you marriage, not wondering what express machine or dinner set you can get

HesterShaw Thu 19-Dec-13 10:58:27

These threads always bring out the "I wouldn't dream..."-ers....people whose posts appear like their sole purpose is to prove to the rest of MN how incredibly classy, well-bred and superior they are to the ghastly oiks who mainly inhabit today's dreadful society.

HesterShaw Thu 19-Dec-13 11:03:31

compared to

cluecu Thu 19-Dec-13 16:57:04

This will out me but I'm getting married in March and am putting this in the 'info' bit with the invite:

"Gifts – (awkward part)

We appreciate that weddings can be very costly and the fact that you will be at our wedding (we hope) means so much to us. If you do wish to give us a gift of some sort, we have to be honest and say the most useful thing for us would be a contribution towards our married life or honeymoon. There will be an area at the reception where cards and gifts can be placed."

I know my guests well and am sure that no-one will be at all offended by it - I don't really have uptight friends.

HesterShaw Thu 19-Dec-13 16:59:46

I would think that would be absolutely fine. Please don't take to heart some of the reactions it might invoke on here on MN though.

Hope you have a lovely day smile

cluecu Thu 19-Dec-13 17:01:52

Thanks Hester - I am prepared for a flaming but I genuinely do not understand the fuss!

Sheeesh....there are SO many more annoying aspects to everyday life!

Panzee Thu 19-Dec-13 17:02:54

CuChullain nobody has said that.

stargirl1701 Thu 19-Dec-13 18:45:15

I love a list. I prefer it in the invitation. I prefer buying a few pieces for an expensive tableware set. I love to think of the couple having a dinner party and thinking of us.

I clearly don't belong on MN grin

Coconutty Thu 19-Dec-13 18:48:31

Clue you know that you are going to be accused of begging, right?fgrin

cluecu Thu 19-Dec-13 18:52:08

Yes Coconutty grin but I'm pretty certain only by mumsnet and not my wedding guests!

Coconutty Thu 19-Dec-13 18:59:25

I would rather give money/something useful and don't think it's cheeky at all.

winkywinkola Thu 19-Dec-13 20:39:36

How would you feel if someone made a charity donation in your name to the charity of their choice instead?

That's a bit shit as "gifts" go, winky. If it's to a charity of the B&G's choice, that would be ok - but the "giver" might support a charity that the B&G have issues with. It's not really any kind of gift then, is it. It's just putting 2 fingers up to the B&G and saying "I'd rather spend my money on people I think more worthy than YOU."

MaidOfStars Thu 19-Dec-13 21:27:31

How would you feel if someone made a charity donation in your name to the charity of their choice instead?

As a gift to the bride and groom? If prompted, I'd do it. If not promoted, I think it's not on.

For the bride and groom to do instead of favours? Not for me.

I'm generally not keen on people foisting charity choices on others.

TheMuppetsSingChristmas Thu 19-Dec-13 21:37:41

The whole charity gift list/request thing opens up an entire other can of worms. I love gift lists and have no problems with them. I'm also very happy with requests for charity donations in lieu of presents and have done so in the past. But recently we went to a wedding where the couple requested donations for a charity I have specific knowledge of and therefore severe problems with, as regards their ethics and operations. We decided not to donate to that charity but to donate to another instead. We mentioned this to the B&G because we didn't want them to think we'd ignored the request altogether or decided not to 'gift' at all, but they weren't happy to put it mildly. It was all very awkward.

MrsGrasshead Thu 19-Dec-13 22:05:45

Cluecu - that's what most of our friends have done, in my world that's the norm.

ARealPickle Fri 20-Dec-13 06:32:53

I went to one wedding recently where they used a website where they had listed lots of trips they c wanted to take on their honey moon and a few 'round of drinks friday night' or 'coffee out Friday' type things. There were some more expensive 'experiences' but these were divided into 20 pound bits so you could put towards them.

I thought it was a really nice way b of giving money, it was done online but you knew what 'bit' of the holiday you'd contributed to. I much preferred it to giving cash, it still felt like choosing from a list.

MaidOfStars Fri 20-Dec-13 08:53:38

TheMuppetsSingChristmas That's a perfect illustration of the issues surrounding charity giving on behalf of others.

TheMuppetsSingChristmas Fri 20-Dec-13 15:19:39

I know! We weren't happy with their choice of charity, they weren't happy with ours, it's sods law I suppose. We like this couple a great deal but I just couldn't give to their charity, I couldn't. We did what we thought was the next best thing, and chose another charity working in the same field, but that wasn't okay for them. The whole business has soured the friendship sadly.

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