To think the 'community shop' thing is going to get abused by some.

(112 Posts)
cantheyseeme Tue 10-Dec-13 16:55:43

For people who dont know there is a food bank kind of thing been set up in Barnsley where shops give food and it is sold at like 70% off. This is only for people on benefits from what i can gather, where they can get a loaf of bread for 20p and other things free. In the ideal world this would be a brilliant source of food for people in need but i cant help thinking there are people out there who wont use this as its intended purpose and spend their benefits on non essentials and think its ok because theres always things like food banks etc to fall back on. I also find ita bit of a pisstake that its only for people on benecits when there are a large number of people in this country who work and are just as poor.

cantheyseeme Tue 10-Dec-13 16:56:26

Sorry not other things free, i meant cheap.

BohemianGirl Tue 10-Dec-13 16:58:41

There will be a black market economy spring up round it.

If something RRPs at £1 but is sold in the community shop for 25p - it will be sold on for 50p and everyone is happy.

gamerchick Tue 10-Dec-13 16:58:51

Awesome grin

I thought it was for people that were below a certain income level.

gamerchick Tue 10-Dec-13 16:59:54

You are aware that a lot of it is rejects and would have gone to waste management don't you?

yourcruisedirector Tue 10-Dec-13 17:02:19

It is for people in receipt of most kind of benefits, so includes the working poor.

But there will probably be a bit of black market action around it. So long as there is sufficient food for everyone who wants to buy it's probably not an issue. And the food will come direct from the food production industry - any items with packaging damage, cancelled orders, overstock etc, so it's not like it is subsidised. Great that those things will cease to go to waste.

Ragwort Tue 10-Dec-13 17:02:24

Well, what would you suggest otherwise?

I volunteer at a Food Bank & this is a continual 'issue' with some of the other volunteers. It doesn't help that sometimes the clients come in with the latest mobile phone or ipad hmm. However, it is important not to judge - it's a bit like saying all bankers are greedy tax avoiders.

In any area of society there will be a tiny proportion of abuse - the important thing (to me) is to not lose sight of the good things that are being done. smile

JustGettingOnWithIt Tue 10-Dec-13 17:03:37

Oh quick, close it down, someone might do better than they ought!

Dawndonnaagain Tue 10-Dec-13 17:04:37

I'm fairly sure that it won't be too bad, they will have thought of most things. This has (as pointed out in many of the articles) been going in Europe for years. It is a good thing.

gamerchick Tue 10-Dec-13 17:05:50

It makes me feel sad at the thought of a black market in food from a cheap shop.

Joysmum Tue 10-Dec-13 17:07:23

It may will be abused BY THE MINORITY but it will benefit THE MAJORITY. I'd rather help the majority knowing a small minority will abuse the system than not have any schemes like this.

cantheyseeme Tue 10-Dec-13 17:08:23

I think in theory its really good i just think a few people with bad intentions will give it a shitty reputation and ruin it, i do love the whole salvaging food that would have gone to waste idea though. Is it run by a charity or anything or the local authority as im curious as to what the cost is to rent the premises etc is.

WilsonFrickett Tue 10-Dec-13 17:09:39

I used to work in a bank so I know allllll about the few spoiling it for the many. That doesn't mean I advocate closing banks down however.

I think this is a brilliant idea on all sorts of levels actually.

fatlazymummy Tue 10-Dec-13 17:12:51

Yes it probably will get abused by a minority. At the same time ,a few other people who desperately need it won't qualify, or will be just above the cut off point, or will be too proud to use it.
That is the thing with benefits and welfare. It's really difficult to ensure that only/all the people who need it receive it. We just have to try and make it as efficient as possible and if some people scam the system that's better than people who really need it going without.

gamerchick Tue 10-Dec-13 17:14:48

It's only allowed so many hundred members though is that it? Not a free for all.

I hope it takes off.

gamerchick Tue 10-Dec-13 17:15:07

*isn't

manicinsomniac Tue 10-Dec-13 17:16:44

It sounds like a good thing to me.

I think it should be free though, if it would otherwise be going in the bin.

MoreThanChristmasCrackers Tue 10-Dec-13 17:17:19

I heard you had to have a card/prove you were on benefits, etc.
What a fantastic scheme and so glad it happened now. Too many people are struggling, yes there are people who work who are struggling too, but on the whole they are better off than those not working.

cantheyseeme Tue 10-Dec-13 17:18:07

I suppose thats why its not free then to pay the rent etc (slaps head!)

specialsubject Tue 10-Dec-13 18:28:01

the concept is disgusting. Not because it is limited to those who need it, not because the goods are cheaper - but because they would otherwise be dumped in a hole in the ground when there is nothing wrong with them.

they would be binned because labels are crooked, packaging is slightly damaged, some of the food is 'short dated' (perfectly usable, just will last somewhere near a normal amount of time) and similar revolting reasons.

our food chain managers need to take a long hard look at themselves.

Balaboosta Tue 10-Dec-13 18:30:30

I hate these threads. What's it to you? Too judgemental for me!

sashh Tue 10-Dec-13 18:31:43

I think it should be free though, if it would otherwise be going in the bin.

And where would the costs for the building and paying the staff come from?

MrsLouisTheroux Tue 10-Dec-13 19:35:06

I also find ita bit of a pisstake that its only for people on benefits when there are a large number of people in this country who work and are just as poor.
^ this

Seff Tue 10-Dec-13 19:39:46

Many people on benefits do work. It's a big fat myth that everyone on benefits does not work.

farrowandbawlbauls Tue 10-Dec-13 19:43:36

I'm uneasy about this whole thing. I can't pinpoint why at the moment, but something just isn't right.

It's a great idea in theory but....ALDI and Lidl even ASDA can be cheap enough to shop in and they (the shop) were advertising fruit or 99p per bag, I think you can get fruit cheaper at a local market.

toobreathless Tue 10-Dec-13 19:48:41

I can't think of anything negative about it. It reduces waste and I can live with the odd person abusing it for the sake of the vast majority it will help. It will also provide some jobs.

Good on them.

limitedperiodonly Tue 10-Dec-13 19:51:46

Yes, I expect some people will abuse it. I expect some people involved in the scheme might be committing fraud.

Probably the same percentage of people who abuse benefits. That's vanishingly small, especially in relation to the percentage of people who are entitled to benefits and don't claim them, or are entitled but get removed from them by those charlatans at ATOS etc.

Rather less than the number of people otherwise gainfully employed who commit fraud on a daily basis.

Tell me, OP, does it keep you awake weeping at night that people who may not be entitled are jumping through hoops to score a cheap loaf of bread?

And how likely do you think they might be to do that?

cantheyseeme Tue 10-Dec-13 20:04:35

It doesnt keep me awake at night but it doesnt sit well that yet again tax payers miss out, in regards to ATOS being charletons... they do a job and have to weadle out the genuine from the not so genuine. Like i say, used in the right way its a good idea.

DowntonTrout Tue 10-Dec-13 20:14:43

The Company Shop has been going for a while. This particular one that has just opened is the first of its kind that gives out 500 membership cards to those fulfilling a certain criterior on low incomes.

The other Company Shop that has been trading for a while is also near Barnsley and is open to NhS staff, and other services, again you need a membership card. I know someone who works at a nearby hospital who gets loads of stuff from there. Mostly short date but who cares when you can freeze it.

mummymeister Tue 10-Dec-13 20:17:13

its recycling stuff before it goes to landfill isn't it. this is food that would just be going in the bins so surely it should be passed on in someway. yes, there will be abuse - stand by for the panorama documentary in the new year or the daily fail undercover story. it does ignore the fact that there are some poor people who are just outside of benefit levels who could benefit and some people on benefits with the latest ipad and phone so why aren't they spending that money on food then. wherever you have someone trying to do good you always get a level of abuse - its human nature sadly.

mrsjay Tue 10-Dec-13 20:21:01

I saw it on tv yesterday thought what a great idea and the customers they seemed to have were middle aged/older people who maybe didnt have any children left at home but were still struggiling they have to apply to be members and you always get a minority who spilt it , around here it is selling coffee from the food bank but that is one or 2 individuals that spoil it, I think the comunity shop is a great idea and of course some people will loose out I think it is for all people on low income to apply though

mrsjay Tue 10-Dec-13 20:21:48

spoil it* sorry

limitedperiodonly Tue 10-Dec-13 20:23:19

ATOS do do a job. They're not well skilled at it, judging by the number of people who win on appeal.

I wouldn't expect them to be. They are a company with no medical background employing those with dubious qualifications or employment records who've picked up a publicly-funded contract and don't appear to be giving us value for money, like G4S for instance.

Do you care about that obscene waste or does make you happy that they coin it while putting down-trodden people?

Sleep tight. They might come for you in the morning.

trulyenoughnow Tue 10-Dec-13 20:24:29

We had one of these in Germany. Although open to everyone, not just those on benefits. It was brilliant- big slabs of Camembert and deli meats etc. super super cheap (usually on the day of expiry).
The catch was that all the deliveries of fresh items were at about 6am, and if you happened to rock up late, say after 9am, it was just the odd can of dodgy meatballs etc.
lots of hardworking mums to be found at 6am stocking up for their families. Lots of people who would have benefitted from a bargain though, it has to be said, still in bed at 9am.

Judybluey Tue 10-Dec-13 20:26:23

I think it's a really good idea but at the same time it's a rather sad state of affairs that this type of scheme i.e food banks have become acceptable in our society hmm

mrsjay Tue 10-Dec-13 20:28:37

yes it is heartbreaking judy but needed sad

cantheyseeme Tue 10-Dec-13 20:28:54

That post made no sense to me towards the end unless im reading it all wrong :/ Whos going to come for me? hmm confused

judgejudithjudy Tue 10-Dec-13 21:34:29

ffs i earn £8 a week less than if i was on benefits & struggle - not fair on low earners - makes you think fuck your morals & claim benefits! dont begrude help but why for people on benefits only? gggrrrrr

Dawndonnaagain Tue 10-Dec-13 21:47:34

If that's the case judge surely you can claim tax credits?

<disclaimer> actually have no idea about tax credits!

limitedperiodonly Tue 10-Dec-13 21:48:29

The way I heard it, it was for working poor as well as the unemployed judgejudithjudy

So if you're in the Barnsley area and you're on a low income, then go for it. What have you got to lose?

Of course, if you're more interested in tussling with other poor people, while other people enjoy watching, knock yourself out.

joanofarchitrave Tue 10-Dec-13 21:56:25

YANBU to think that there will be people abusing this system.

YABVVU to think that this invalidates it as an idea. If I had a very low income I would be much more likely to try to get a membership to this than to go to a food bank. I think it's more likely to help more people and is less of a normalisation of poverty than opening loads more food banks.

MoreThanChristmasCrackers Tue 10-Dec-13 21:56:32

judgejudy

Would you accept it if it was offered to you.
I wouldn't because we are far from needing help. However, if it was assessed on income like you suggest, we would be deemed to be in need.
This imo would encourage a greater amount of misuse.

MoreThanChristmasCrackers Tue 10-Dec-13 21:57:40

abuse, not misuse. I'm dyslexic.

AmberLeaf Tue 10-Dec-13 22:12:19

You make it sound like using a food bank is enjoyable.

in regards to ATOS being charletons... they do a job and have to weadle out the genuine from the not so genuine

How lucky you are to be that naive.

LittleprincessinGOLDrocks Tue 10-Dec-13 22:34:22

I think it is a great idea. There is a similar shop that only NHS staff can access near me, where anyone who works for the NHS can get a card to shop there, regardless of pay scale. Food is massively reduced.
I think that is a little unfair to those on benefits / low income jobs that don't work for the NHS.
We need more of these reduced shops for people on benefits or low income, OR better still the big supermarkets need to reduce the costs of food as a whole!

LittleprincessinGOLDrocks Tue 10-Dec-13 22:39:16

Sorry DowntonTrout didn't read your post before posting.

nancy75 Tue 10-Dec-13 22:47:49

Just like everything there will probably be people who take the piss, sell the stuff on whatever. But if it means a couple of kids get a breakfast or dinner they wouldn't have otherwise had then i can live with that.

Misspixietrix Tue 10-Dec-13 23:05:13

'atos do do a good job'. 'Wheedling out the geniuine claimaints etc'. I can't take ANY company who simply gives their employees 2weeks training and enables them to then be able to know everything about every medical aspect and illness etc so to be able to complete their little tickbox; seriously enough to think they are doing a good job because it obviously has fuck all to do with that £1bn bonus they are expected to not get.

Misspixietrix Tue 10-Dec-13 23:08:10

And as others have said. Many low wage earners could well be in receipt of benefits I.e housing benefit.

GinOnTwoWheels Tue 10-Dec-13 23:13:26

There's been similar shops to these for years, that are open to everyone but this one seems a bit more well organised and well stocked.

Many markets have a frozen food shop that sells 'slight seconds' of things like M&S ready meals much cheaper than normal and the faults will generally be really trivial like a minor packaging error, or the sausages not parallel in a toad in the hole.

I don't think it should be free, as some people will try to grab more than they need because its free. Better to charge a nominal sum, that goes towards the cost of the enterprise.

The news report that I saw earlier this week also said that the 'shop' had other facilities such as budgeting advice and internet access. I hope it is available to the working poor, as well as the unemployed, but the permissible number of memberships seem quite small, so I can see it being over subscribed, unless they regularly review memberships and remove those who no longer qualify, or don't use the shop.

Darkesteyes Tue 10-Dec-13 23:43:30

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cantheyseemeTue 10-Dec-13 20:04:35

It doesnt keep me awake at night but it doesnt sit well that yet again tax payers miss out, in regards to ATOS being charletons... they do a job and have to weadle out the genuine from the not so genuine. Like i say, used in the right way its a good idea.


Yes thats right They are only following orders fhmm

hyenafunk Tue 10-Dec-13 23:43:34

I think it's one of the best ideas I ever heard.

This may surprise you but most people don't actually want to go to a food bank to feed their family. They actually do want to be able to buy it themselves. This is a way they can do that. Plus it sorts out the ridiculous food waste we have in this country (throwing things away because the label isn't 'perfect' for example).

I honestly think this is a wonderful idea. I hope this starts nationally.

Darkesteyes Tue 10-Dec-13 23:47:11

Those ipads and phones would have been bought while they were in employment.

Golly gosh anyone on benefits whose relatives are planning on buying them one for Xmas better not bother lest they get judged.

Still it makes a change from "flatscreen telly rage" i suppose.

Dawndonnaagain Tue 10-Dec-13 23:47:57

ATOS are dangerous and interestingly have had their licence to practice removed in a number of American states. Their job appears to be to cut the number of claimants by any means necessary, health issues are little understood nor cared about.

Morloth Wed 11-Dec-13 03:50:50

A bit of a black market is a good thing IMO.

People are far too obedient these days.

cantheyseeme Wed 11-Dec-13 05:37:46

Love the misquoting here i never said ATOS do a good job. And as for assuming I am naive..... grin Besides when people get turned down by ATOS they can appeal and if still not successful can just make a whole new claim. Absolutely irrelevant to this thread but there you go.

grumpyoldbat Wed 11-Dec-13 05:59:44

canthey making a new claim or appealing is incredibly stressful and takes a long time and in the mean time the person is getting less money.

There are numerous case studies showing the negative impact on health that stress coupled with the loss of extra assistance that they can no longer pay for has on people. Some have even died. If Atos genuinely determined the genuine from the non genuine you may have a point about them being a good thing however since all they do is punish the genuinely needy then they are very much the opposite of a good thing.

Just a point of information before I'm accused of being a self serving scrounger. I'm not personally a dla claimant nor are any of my close family. I've just witnessed the after affects of an atos assessment from the viewpoint of a hcp too many times.

cantheyseeme Wed 11-Dec-13 06:29:41

I never said ATOS do a good job but i think they are needed, or if not them another organisation. I understand a lot of people are in genuine need but as with the community shop, there will be those less in need trying to get what they can.

LittleBabyPigsus Wed 11-Dec-13 06:44:49

Yes cantheyseeme, ATOS, an organisation who class terminally ill people as fit to work and who have driven disabled people to commit suicide, are totally necessary hmm Unless of course you like picking off the disabled one by one. FFS do you even know how many hoops people have to jump through to get the benefits they are entitled to? Do you know how exhausting it is? Go back to your Daily Mail.

Schemes like this are for everyone on a low income including the working poor - and most people in receipt of means-tested benefits including housing benefit are working, just not making enough. I think you need to do some actual research on benefits and get your facts straight before talking about Good Poor People and Bad Poor People.

cantheyseeme Wed 11-Dec-13 06:48:03

I really really wish people would actually read my messages properly before posting grin

cantheyseeme Wed 11-Dec-13 06:51:42

And to add, i absolutely love picking on disabled people one by one. There are some really good points being made on here that i hadnt thought about, so thankyou smile

LittleBabyPigsus Wed 11-Dec-13 06:58:22

I am reading your messages properly, you just aren't understanding that ATOS ruins people's lives and are responsible for the death of 11000 disabled people. Why are you OK with that? Assessing disabled people for disability benefits should be wholly the responsibility of the government via the DWP and NHS, it should not be a profit-making exercise.

Again, get your facts straight before demonizing those on benefits.

11000 dead because of ATOS. Just think about that. Not out of pocket and able to appeal, but dead.

Seff Wed 11-Dec-13 07:04:44

It's like playing idiot bingo here.

"taxpayers money"
"benefit scroungers"
"all people on benefits have massive tvs"

blah blah blah

cantheyseeme Wed 11-Dec-13 07:05:31

You are completely losing sight of the thread as a whole. Quote me where i said im ok with this please! I do tend to agree that the way the decisions are made need to be changed. What I shall spend my day doing is researching ATOS case studies and when I am a little less naive and know a bit more about this big bad world I will come back and thrash it out with you, does that suit?

LittleBabyPigsus Wed 11-Dec-13 07:12:05

You've said that ATOS are needed. They're not. You also clearly don't understand the impact of ATOS' incorrect assessments if your attitude is 'oh well they can appeal'. Clearly, the 11000 who have died because of ATOS cannot.

I'm not losing sight of the thread as a whole because it's all part of the culture of blaming the poor for their own poverty. It's Victorian deserving poor and undeserving poor attitudes. You also clearly don't know very much about poverty and benefits in the UK if you think that everyone on benefits is unemployed, as others have pointed out most people in receipt of means-tested benefits such as Housing Benefit are in work. Again, you need to get your facts straight about benefits and poverty in general before commenting. Attitudes such as those in your OP are really harmful.

cantheyseeme Wed 11-Dec-13 07:15:24

I know nothing about anything. You are correct.

LittleBabyPigsus Wed 11-Dec-13 07:19:35

That's not what I'm saying hmm I'm saying to not perpetuate harmful stereotypes and that's pretty easy to ascertain from my posts. Please point out where I said you know nothing about anything. I said that you don't know much about the benefits system, which if you think all people on benefits are unemployed you don't, please explain how the benefits system = everything. Don't be such a twat. Perhaps give a damn about people dying because of attitudes like yours instead.

cantheyseeme Wed 11-Dec-13 07:23:26

I didnt bring up anything about benefits meaning unemployed, when i said about being able to appeal it was meant as a point that they will still be recieving an income.

Misspixietrix Wed 11-Dec-13 07:28:16

"Atos Do do a good job". Your words OP. Where the hell were you misquoated? Oh and you can't directly appeal to DWP now neither. You know. Because everyone who's needed them(IB) are just numbers on a system that needs to lower its numbers by any means possible. Also, you're wrong, of course they are relevant to this thread, explaining how sanctions from the JSA and a branch of an IT company who have been allowed to practice as a 'medical' company have put many people in this position to need foodbanks or supermarket scraps should I call them. Also I work in a FoodBank, it may suprise you to know but our clientele isn't 'just' people on benefits. Judge if you are earning £8 less a week than someone on benefits then you are being screwed over by your employer not the British public.

cantheyseeme Wed 11-Dec-13 07:30:41

I said "They do a job" !!!

Seff Wed 11-Dec-13 07:36:10

You said that it was a pisstake because there are people who work that are poor so it shouldn't just be for people on benefits.

People simply want to point out (to others who think like this too) that there are lots and lots of people on benefits who do work. The scroungers and scumbags that you can read about in the sun and the daily mail are the tiniest tiniest minority. The opposite of the majority of politicians who scammed millions of taxpayers money in expenses.

I'm not saying that there won't be anyone who abuses the system. Our greedy, money focussed society means there will always be people wanting more than their fair share, but the millions of people it will help should not be left to starve because of the actions of a few.

Supermarket scraps sums it up well. It actually makes me feel worse that we're willing to give the "poor people" food that we wouldn't want to serve to the "rich people".

Seff Wed 11-Dec-13 07:37:24

BTW, I don't agree with you, but I think claiming you don't care about people dying is a little unfair.

cantheyseeme Wed 11-Dec-13 07:38:24

There are working poor who are entitled to nothing also, not one penny. This is my point, as a whole its a good idea but the MINORITY will give it a shitty reputation!

usualsuspect Wed 11-Dec-13 07:38:58

I should be shocked that people are moaning about this.But sadly I'm not.

usualsuspect Wed 11-Dec-13 07:40:14

I mean it's not like the mighty taxpayer ever takes the piss.

Seff Wed 11-Dec-13 07:44:55

That seemed to be your point, but your OP ends up looking more like a rant against people on benefits. How dare they buy "non essentials"? And then you end by calling it a pisstake because it's only for people on benefits.

It is this attitude that people are taking offence at.

Seff Wed 11-Dec-13 07:45:55

What next, people on benefits shouldn't be allowed to buy Christmas presents as they are non essential?

cantheyseeme Wed 11-Dec-13 07:48:01

Pretty much grin
No, I was reffering to drugs and alcohol.

usualsuspect Wed 11-Dec-13 07:48:07

I'm couldn't get worked up by a benefit claimant buying a cheap box of Mr Kiplin French Fancies if I tried.

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 11-Dec-13 07:53:00

I knew as soon as I heard about it on the news that people would moan about this Usual. So I'm not surprised.
Who really wants the stigma of having to shop there? I'm on ESA and struggle with the food shop, but there will be people on incomes that can afford it but resent poor people having any advantage (if you can call it that) at all.
I don't get the black market thing at all, it makes me imagine people standing furtively on street corners trying to flog baked beans.

cantheyseeme Wed 11-Dec-13 07:57:20

One thing Im sure we can all agree on is that its a sad state of affairs that people are having to use such things confused

Seff Wed 11-Dec-13 07:58:45

So you think people on benefits are more interested in buying drugs and alcohol?

You want a spade for that hole you're digging?

MPB Wed 11-Dec-13 07:59:05

What a shitty attitude OP.
I think the shop is a positive thing, it reduces waste and brings costs down for struggling families.
And so what if they spend their money on something else? What business is it if yours? They might be trying to buy their DC's essential items such as shoes/ coats. Some of the people using the shop had about £30 a week spare after bills were paid. This was to spend on food and anything else they needed.
I personally can spend £30 in Tesco nipping in just for milk.

I'd rather not be able to go and shop in one of those stores because it means as a family we have enough money. And are very very very fortunate. We too were once in the position of claiming benefits. 5 years ago. Again we were lucky as we had a small redundancy pay out and insurance to cover our mortgage.

It would be great if these kind of stores could spring up all over and everyone could have access but in the meantime I am happy for those less fortunate than me to benefit.

Seff Wed 11-Dec-13 07:59:24

YES! Let's focus our hate and anger on that and the people that put us there. Not the people forced to buy food that would normally get thrown away.

Misspixietrix Wed 11-Dec-13 07:59:34

I said "they do a job" !!! So you added an extra do in your original forwarding post then? And no they don't do a job. They do a shit one. Unless you meaning leaving thousands thinking they have no choice but to end their life's because of how the government and society view them. Then yes they do an excellent bloody good job in that case! hmm.

Seff Wed 11-Dec-13 07:59:41

Directed at OP btw

Misspixietrix Wed 11-Dec-13 08:02:18

usualsuspect <glares at you for making me want Mr Kiplings>. Didn't take long for the drugs and
alcohol comments to come into play does it.

cantheyseeme Wed 11-Dec-13 08:02:48

Not everyone the minority!! Good Lord I think I'll just quit before i get eaten grin

cantheyseeme Wed 11-Dec-13 08:04:20

MissPixie it took me ages to get to drugs and alcohol actually, are you struggling to read the thread again?

Misspixietrix Wed 11-Dec-13 08:05:07

<hands Seff Spade. Waits for Cigarette comment from someone as equally ill informed>. Seff can I borrow your Bingo pen please. Mine has ran out already! ,grin.

Misspixietrix Wed 11-Dec-13 08:06:05

No you're obviously struggling to read it though. Or probably just struggling to accept the posts aren't going in the benefit bashing way you wanted.

cantheyseeme Wed 11-Dec-13 08:11:48

Ok i apologise to everyone Ive offended although not sure how Ive done it... that will be my naivity again hmm

MPB Wed 11-Dec-13 08:13:18

Or your ignorance or is it stupidity?

custardo Wed 11-Dec-13 08:14:48

it seems your counter argument is..."its not fair"

which is a shit counter argument actually.

how about

lots of people will benefit from this amazing idea which lessens food wastage and enables those who can't fucking eat because of the fucking awful Conservative policies.

MPs to get a 11% pay rise and ian Duncan smith spends £39 on ONE breakfast whilst others starve

I'll tell you whats not fair

its not fair that my fucking taxes pay towards MP lunches, cars, second homes, heating and lighting bills

My taxes paid for Ian duncans smiths underpants - his fucking underpants

the real question here should be

why are the government waging war on the poor, why are various multiple large charities concerned at the amount of food banks we have and the lack of something to eat for many in this country

why are the circumstances such that this shop even has to exist.

I also have to pull you up on ATOS - they are so cruel that they force terminally ill people to go back to work, they have directly contributed to the deaths of many disabled people, the assessments are insane
disabled people forced to assessment centres where they have to walk up steps to get in, then they are left waiting for hours on end in cold rooms.

usualsuspect Wed 11-Dec-13 08:15:06

Actually if anyone has access to one of these shops I'm willing to pay up to 80p for a box of french fancies

OhMerGerd Wed 11-Dec-13 08:16:30

I wanted to join this thread to say something positive about this idea because it is good that all this food that has taken energy to produce just gets binned for non safety reasons like seasonal packaging, misprint on the label or misshaped / broken ingredient element etc.
But I find myself writing this ... that I am despairing that we are heading back towards a Hobbesian nightmare where life in 'nasty, brutish and short' because there are so many people in our suposedly modern advanced society who cannot see beyond their own personal 'entitlement' .
It won't be long before the 'hard working, taxpaying public' start building bonfires to burn the feckless, the underclass, the undeserving poor and when they're gone who next? The sick? People with disabilities? The Elderly! Keep following the logic and once you've stopped being 'a hard working taxpayer' your value as a human beings diminishes along with the ability to fight gladiator style for every crumb thrown from the table of a corporate interested , globalised profit margin oriented, politically and morally corrupt elite.
Instead of begrudging your neighbour what ever comfort they can find in these hard times, why not direct your ire at campaigning to rebuild this once great 'society' .. Where the collective good, fought for by trade unionists, suffragettes, and other social reformers ... (you know .. our great grand dads and grandmas who fought in the war/s to make this country great ' ) to secure a better life for future generations by demanding, what are now called pejoratively 'political correctness gone mad' rules and welfare systems based tolerance and respect and mutual support for each other. ...
Don't throw away your hard won freedom and rights (to an education that equips you take your place in the world as an equal of all men and women, free on need health care, a home with security of tenure, safe working conditions and a living wage for your labour, equality and acess to justice regardless of gender, ethnicity or religion etc) because of base brutish instincts being fostered and fed through propaganda and misinformation by a press and media owned by ... (you getting it yet ? ) .... the self serving global corporate elite.
If you want to get angry ... get angry about that .. And not whether someone as badly off as you has fiddled an extra 5 p off a tin of beans or bought 12 mushy bananas in a bag for 99p. Please.

custardo Wed 11-Dec-13 08:26:38

what omg said... well said

Dawndonnaagain Wed 11-Dec-13 08:32:30

I never said ATOS do a good job but i think they are needed, or if not them another organisation.
The Government's own figures for fraud are 0.04%. So no, they're not needed.

I didnt bring up anything about benefits meaning unemployed, when i said about being able to appeal it was meant as a point that they will still be recieving an income.
Actually, that isn't the case, for disabled people, as of last year, you are not paid dla whilst appealing. IDS has also stated that there will no longer be a right to appeal after 2015. Thereby further endangering the lives of ill and disabled people.

Dawndonnaagain Wed 11-Dec-13 08:36:11
Helpyourself Wed 11-Dec-13 08:39:05

I don't u d'état an the meanspiritidness of threads like this and the one where the lad was given a free Xbox by one company because he'd been scammed by another company.
There's not a limited pot of goodwill or luck. If one person gets a break it doesn't mean someone else suffers. On the contrary.
If such things wind you up, look to yourself and try and find some empathy.

cantheyseeme Wed 11-Dec-13 08:41:05

There are some angry people here today hmm

custardo Wed 11-Dec-13 08:43:10

angry at the injustice and the fact that some people think its ok to begrudge others food that would otherwise be thrown away

GinOnTwoWheels Wed 11-Dec-13 08:50:51

I do think some people are being a little bit too precious about 'poor people' being offered discount food, as if it is an insult.

I have been poor in the past and have and still do, sometimes shop in discount shops. I even shopped in Aldi and Lidl, before it was popular to do so and people looked down on them much more than they do now.

I was simply grateful at the chance to get something cheaper than normal, or to be able to buy slightly more interesting food than the basics or whatever. I didn't feel demeaned because I couldn't afford to go and buy what I wanted in Waitrose all the time, because I think thats a rather luxurious situation to be in.

It would be nice if 'everyone' could afford 'everything', but that's never going to happen.

expatinscotland Wed 11-Dec-13 08:52:02

OMG! Poor people, including working poor, getting food that would otherwise go into a hole into the ground. I'm so concerned, NOT

Actually a lot of "waste" that's supposed to be disposedof ends up on the black market anyway. I know this because I currently have 72 cans of lager and12 bottles of champagne in my cellar bought from an employee of the company that's supposed to dispose of it. Probably better for it to end up in a community shop really.

TheHeadlessLadyofCannock Wed 11-Dec-13 09:04:05

I agree with those saying that it's a sorry state of affairs when one of the richest countries in the world has to have community shops/food banks.

I like the idea of supermarkets putting their surplus/waste to good use (although really I think measures should be in place to prevent waste before it gets produced, IYSWIM: anyone read that article in the Guardian where there were cheap Jaffa Cakes in the community shop because they were unfit for sale in a 'proper' shop due to being either a bit below or a bit above their advertised weight? hmm)

HOWEVER OP, I take exception to the sentiment that it will encourage people to 'spend their benefits on non essentials and think its ok because theres always things like food banks etc to fall back on.'

First, how humiliating and soul-crushing do you think it would be to have to go to a food bank? Really, just try to put yourself in that position, just for a second. Do you honestly think people feel so sanguine about it that they'd happily use it as a fall-back, rather than as a last resort?

Second, how DARE people spend their benefits on 'non essentials', eh? And what are 'non essentials' in your book, anyway? No, hang on, let me guess: maybe people on benefits shouldn't drink, or ever have, say, chocolate, or a cigarette.

Even if people do abuse community shops, it will be a tiny minority (just as it's a tiny minority who abuse benefits) and, in my book, you don't create or run or judge a society by the standards of its worst but continually strive to raise it and keep it at its best.

In short, IMO your OP is pretty offensive. And if you think I'm one of those 'angry people': well hell yes I am. I am angry at the government who have made food banks and community shops necessary and those who voted them in. And I'm angry at people who continue in the face of all reasonable evidence to put down and demonise people who have to live on benefits.

Misspixietrix Wed 11-Dec-13 09:15:24

TheHeadlessLadyofCannock at ours that I work at. It is tucked away from the roads and behind an Estate. Their is ALWAYS a huge queue when we arrive and even though they can't physically be seen by anyone they still try and hide if that makes sense? So you're quite right. No one willingly goes there. Well not to ours anyway.

Misspixietrix Wed 11-Dec-13 09:20:46

Psst! usualsuspect I have a box here for 70p. wink.

Keletubbie Wed 11-Dec-13 10:12:57

The Company Shop already have stores throughout the UK. They are mostly attached to large companies, and are for the benefit of employees. Employees are allowed to bring a friend or family member, and I have benefitted by stocking up my freezer a few times. They stock a large range of items at a decent discount, often short dated or with missing/incorrect packaging. Does it bother me that my there are only 400g of coffee instead of 500g in my jar? Not if I only paid 50p for it!

Melonbreath Wed 11-Dec-13 10:57:58

I think it's disgusting that these sorts of shops are needed. People in this country shouldn't go hungry.

I have a friend in barnsley who goes to food banks and she'd much rather go where there is more choice and a feeling of independence rather than feeling begging. And it beats deciding whether to feed or warm her kids, in winter they spend as much time in the library as possible purely as it's warm.

Misspixietrix Wed 11-Dec-13 11:10:19

MelonBreath many people around this area do the same when winter comes. There was even an article in the local paper about a pensioner who used to sit in the local Shopping centre all day to stay warm.

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