to not want to pick up ds early everyday?

(93 Posts)
stinkysox Mon 09-Dec-13 18:32:11

My 1st post on aibu so please be gentle!

Ds attends pre-school, afternoons, 12.15-3.15. It never opens early (usually closer to 12.20) It is attached to an infants and primary so the majority of the parents collect their dcs just after 3 when the older children get out.
I usually get there around 3 but today I didn't arrive until 3.10. As I walked up to the school I heard one of the teachers say 'oh here's mummy, ds' I looked up to see ds at the window wearing his coat & waving.
I got to the door (outside door to reception, there is then another door to classroom) and instead of being let in as normal, ds was ushered out to me with a quick goodbye.
I explained I had fees to pay so they let me in, halfheartedly looked around the office for a few seconds, complete with eye rolls, then said they couldn't find the receipt book and could I pay tomorrow. I said fine, and noticed a few of the staff members already had their coats on ready to leave.
AIBU to think this rude, and that I shouldn't be expected to pick ds up 15 minutes early when I pay for him to be there?

Debs75 Mon 09-Dec-13 18:35:36

Is he your only dc?
Our nursery finishes at 3.30 as does the nursery. This gives a mad rush with parents getting the older dc's and running back to nursery to get the younger dc's. Our nursery won't let out early. It does sound like your nursery do it the other way around so over time parent's and staff have got used to an earlier home time. It's not right but it's not really wrong either

nennypops Mon 09-Dec-13 18:37:23

I think it is clearly wrong, if you're paying them to keep him up to 3.15.

DoItTooBabyJesus Mon 09-Dec-13 18:37:43

YANBU. At all! Talk to them.

stinkysox Mon 09-Dec-13 18:40:16

I have a younger dc. I've no problem with the timings, obviously it's helpful to the parents with older dcs who pick them up at 3. I just don't think we I should be made to feel uncomfortable for turning up at 3.10 as if I'm late.

BackforGood Mon 09-Dec-13 18:41:22

Quite often staff have other jobs (working in after school care) or their own dc to collect. If everyone is normally out just after 3, then I don't see that there's a problem, as long as there are 2 staff there with any children not collected until 1/4 past. People get used to 'what normally happens'.

stinkysox Mon 09-Dec-13 19:08:37

I appreciate that back my problem was their obvious annoyance at me being 'late' when I was actually still early.

Indith Mon 09-Dec-13 20:00:34

used to drive me mad when dd was at a preschool like that. Never open on time and when I picked up I was always the last one and kids always had coats on etc ready and had clearly been ready for a while. I felt like I was in the wrong if I picked up on time rather than early.

drove me potty. That and other things meant I moved her elsewhere which was much better. If a child is entitled to their 15 his a week education I'm dammed if I'm going to let my child lose half an hour a day of it with late opening and early closing.

arethereanyleftatall Mon 09-Dec-13 20:11:39

I wouldn't get there a second before 3.15 if I were you. (,as long as your DC is fine with that!)

stinkysox Mon 09-Dec-13 20:27:09

Tbh I'd love to leave it until 3.15 to pick him up, mainly because I can get a parking space plus me and ds2 don't get trampled all over but I just get made to feel bad. Especially as on the 3 occasions I've dared to turn up after 3 ds has been the last one there. Doesn't bother him in the slightest though, he loves it there smile
It's mainly the disapproval from the staff making me uncomfortable.

stinkysox Mon 09-Dec-13 20:29:44

Indith I do have another problem with the school other than this, but they're outweighed by the good points really. It's a lovely little school which ds adores. Shame really.

JoinYourPlayfellows Mon 09-Dec-13 20:30:30

Don't feel uncomfortable.

They are being twats.

stinkysox Mon 09-Dec-13 20:34:05

Will see how I feel tomorrow, hopefully I'll have the balls to roll up at 3.15 without apologising grin

Parliamo Mon 09-Dec-13 20:34:32

Why are you paying? Don't you get the 15 hours funding?

Pancakeflipper Mon 09-Dec-13 20:36:24

Could it just have been a 1 off - they were all dashing off for Christmas party ???

stinkysox Mon 09-Dec-13 20:39:22

Parliamo Ds just turned 3, funding starts in Jan. Pancake today was the 3rd time I was 'late', same reactions each time.

Pancakeflipper Mon 09-Dec-13 20:42:19

I would ask them what their hours are then, they might need reminding!

Ragusa Mon 09-Dec-13 20:42:41

Ignore them; they are being discourteous to you and especially to your child as he will have noticed that the teachers all have their coats on and he is the last one there. They should notbe making him feel like he has been left behind!

stinkysox Mon 09-Dec-13 20:50:53

I did mention it last time, when I saw ds was the last child & sat with his coat on (parents usually collect coats on the way out) I said something along the lines of 'sorry am I late? I thought it was until 3.15' they replied 'oh, it is until 3.15 but most parents come at 3 because of their older children'.

Parliamo Mon 09-Dec-13 21:01:48

I don't actually know why it matters who is paying, not sure why I felt the need to ask that! I was just puzzling it through, I guess.

I usually try to find a charitable explanation for these sorts of situations because it is easy for misunderstandings to arise. But it sounds a bit slack though, and to me suggests the management is not exactly professional. Is there anything else you are not happy about?

You have a few options- accept with a shrug that it is not ideal but in the grand scheme of things not a biggie, or be direct and bring it up with someone, or move. Shrugger, fighter or huffer?

Or you could inwardly rage and then rant on mnet. But it might be better to avoid raging, it's not good for your peace of mind.

Parliamo Mon 09-Dec-13 21:03:06

X post! And my last post could do with a smile

teacherlikesapples Mon 09-Dec-13 21:08:49

I would complain about this- it is not fair to you or your child. Ask them how this is supporting his personal, social & emotional development (they are required by the EYFS to plan & support this as a high priority!!)

By clock watching & making him feel like he is always last, he is not only missing out on important play & learning, he is being made to think poorly of you and himself. It is completely unacceptable and there is no excuse for it.

If the session is until 3.15pm staff certainly shouldn't be packed up and ready to leave before this time.

popperdoodles Mon 09-Dec-13 21:09:25

In my preschool we always get the last few children ready with their coats etc. we see it as being helpful. I hope parents don't think we are pushing them out the door, it is never our intention. just trying to be helpful

stinkysox Mon 09-Dec-13 21:10:05

You're completely right Parliamo I really need to man up or shut up grin
There is another thing, I posted about it on chat a few weeks ago. They have informed me they would put ds down for the full 15 hours from Jan 'in case I change my mind'. I had told them he would only be doing 9 hours. I was told that I would have to sign to confirm his hours but I suspect they will ask me to say he's doing the 15.

RedPencils Mon 09-Dec-13 21:13:46

I'd be sitting in the car till 3.14 if I got that kind of response.
I'm an awkward cow though.

stinkysox Mon 09-Dec-13 21:13:46

popper I'm sure they don't. Unless you also do the eye roll and practically push dcs out of the door wearing your own coat! grin

popperdoodles Mon 09-Dec-13 21:25:29

No never got our coats on, far too much to after children have left

okthen Mon 09-Dec-13 21:29:34

Yanbu- and I don't think teachers having their own kids to pick up is a mitigating factor. It's a job. You do your contracted hours, and if that means you are contracted to leave in time to do school run, great. If it doesn't (like the vast majority of people), you make other arrangements.

Idespair Mon 09-Dec-13 21:34:03

I would say to the staff - "could you tell me the finishing time for preschool please? I thought it was 3.15 but it looks as though i am late when I arrive at 3.10, I'm confused". See what they say.

stinkysox Mon 09-Dec-13 22:14:11

I tried that idespair they just said no, it's 3.15 but most parents come at 3. They obviously can't tell me to be there at 3 but make me feel uncomfortable when I'm not.

DoJo Mon 09-Dec-13 22:52:52

If it doesn't (like the vast majority of people), you make other arrangements.
I suppose that they might have done initially and then cancelled them when it turned out that they were actually able to do it themselves 90% of the time. I can kind of understand them being ready and having your son ready, but the eye rolling and attitude is rude and completely inappropriate.

Gileswithachainsaw Mon 09-Dec-13 23:03:07

Why don't they just make it three O clock confused

I'd be narked tbh , as mentioned before it's unfair on him missing out on things because they are clock watching. If the others are all ready to go by three then they must start getting them ready around 2:45. That leaves ur and the other dcs sat around in coats for half an hour with staff watching the doors.

PrincessScrumpy Mon 09-Dec-13 23:12:00

I would say very loudly to dc "oh you've already got your coat on, looks like your teachers are trying to get off work early today!... you've still got 5 more minutes so why don't you show me what you did today?" Said with a big smile. Not sure if it would work but it would at least make the point and amuse me too smile

stinkysox Mon 09-Dec-13 23:25:20

[Grin] princess
That would be great.
If I'm being honest, it would probably bug me slightly less if they hadn't left us outside in a hail storm a few weeks ago until 12.18 (yes, I clock watched)

stinkysox Mon 09-Dec-13 23:26:19

Smiley fail blush

zipzap Mon 09-Dec-13 23:42:35

I'd make sure I told them in the morning that I was planning on picking up ds at closing time so at 3.15 so you would appreciate it if they just had his coat ready for him to put on when you arrived as you don't want him sitting around getting overheated for ages indoors when you then have to take him out in the cold.

And then maybe turn up a couple of minutes early and ask them to explain why he has got his coat on when you specifically asked them not to put it on so he could enjoy his paid for time at nursery playing rather than sitting there over heating waiting for you!

FastWindow Tue 10-Dec-13 00:02:04

They sound like a load of jobsworths.

You could try the MN direct approach, and tell them that they are making you feel like you are late when you are really early.

Agree with pp who said they should move the whole session back (but then I guess they would have to come in earlier for the am session)

My preschool at the exact opposite, the doors do not open until bang on time, but there have other things like repeatedly losing his peg name card. Three year old notice, believe me.

FastWindow Tue 10-Dec-13 00:05:09

*are
*been

Oh, forget it. Let's just say I'm illiterate and say no more about it. grin

I obviously went to a bad preschool myself.

poopadoop Tue 10-Dec-13 01:10:07

>the MN direct approach, and tell them that they are making you feel like you are late when you are really early.

Nice! That would annoy me too, it really would...do the direct thing, and let them eye roll all they want!

MammaTJ Tue 10-Dec-13 06:07:00

I would do the direct thing to.

I would probably ask what DS had been doing once the others had gone too.

They don't want to change the hours, as it reduces the funding, when they get it.

CloverkissSparklecheeks Tue 10-Dec-13 07:00:37

Pre schools are audited on their NEG funding, the registers are checked against the hours they have claimed. They are not losing funding, they are merely claiming for the hours children are there and can fill those other spaces with extra children.

They have to give you a form to sign with the number of hours on you want to claim and if I remember rightly there is a declaration about you claiming correctly and being liable to pay back if you lie.

They do not sound great, our setting was a complete pack away setting and we still didn't put the dcs coats on before the end time.

TheUnstoppableWindmill Tue 10-Dec-13 07:08:10

If you've only picked him up after 3 a few times, it might get better if you start consistently arriving at 3.10-3.15 and they get used to it being a regular thing?
I feel for you though. I'd be fuming!

stinkysox Tue 10-Dec-13 10:04:01

Thanks for the replies everyone. I was thinking about finding out if there is another parent who doesn't have older dcs (there must be one!) Maybe they attend on different days, and see what they do? I like the thought of the direct approach although I'm not great with confrontation, and I'd worry they might treat ds differently if I complain?

ChippingInLovesChristmasLights Tue 10-Dec-13 10:10:22

I'd just pick him up at 3 - why make life difficult for everyone involved. It's not as though you have to finish work early or anything. Life is too short to make an issue out of such a non issue. Really it is smile

Gileswithachainsaw Tue 10-Dec-13 10:14:34

Why is it making life difficult though?

It may only be fifteen mins but over a week that's over an hour they loose out on. Multiply that by however many weeks they attend. 36 or whatever and that's a lot if time they are being paid to work but in Fact aren't

Gileswithachainsaw Tue 10-Dec-13 10:16:25

And of that do that in the morning sessions then that's a lot of kids loosing part of their early years education.

sneezecakesmum Tue 10-Dec-13 10:17:01

Ignore them and pick your DS up when it suits you provided you are not late.

They are just being cheeky!

Gileswithachainsaw Tue 10-Dec-13 10:24:34

If each session is three hours and your loosing about an hour a week over 36 weeks (approx) that's 36 hours. 36~3 =12.

12x £10-12 (it's usually per session well round her it is) that's £120-144 a year they have over chares you grin

Awaits correction on calculation

grin

CloverkissSparklecheeks Tue 10-Dec-13 10:30:37

I disagree that you should pick him up at 3, you/someone is paying for a 3 hour session. The NEG funding is for a 3 hour session or you are paying for that session. It is an issue, if the OP worked then it would be even more so.

The staff are paid to be there, they are currently not providing a 3 hour session to the children which they should be.

At our setting parents complained that the doors did not open dead on 9am, the clock in the hall was 5 minutes slow so the staff didn't realise, of course they were more than happy to make sure that didn't happen again.

Mckayz Tue 10-Dec-13 10:33:54

Do not pick him up early like Chipping said. You are paying for him to be there until 315. Unless they are going to refund you an hour a week every week.

MILLYMOLLYMANDYMAX Tue 10-Dec-13 10:47:21

I would ask what time ds stopped playing and had his coat put on. Then i would tell them you will pick up at that time and will adjust your payment accordingly. I am an awkward b*****d when it comes to paying for what i am getting. If they object then i would be having words with the HT, the Governors and Ofsted.

RenterNomad Tue 10-Dec-13 12:19:52

Huh. If they do end up asking you to sign for more hours, make sure you mention the pressure to arrive late/close early, when you report to Ofsted!

stinkysox Tue 10-Dec-13 15:24:49

I'll be asking the morning parents if they have the same problem tomorrow. I think I definitely will have to say something, I'd never really added it up before or realised just how much time per month I'm paying for without him actually being there. Another good point that was mentioned, are the kids getting ready to leave at 2.45? If so it's very wrong.

holidaysarenice Tue 10-Dec-13 15:42:46

most parents pick up at 3

I would say.
Ah yes that would be fine to end 15 mins early. I'll adjust the fees by an hour a week. No? That doesn't work? Okay then I'll come at 3.15.

What strategies will you be using to ensure dc is still learning/playing until I come whilst the other children put on their coats and leave? Obviously dc can't just sit in his coat for those 15 mins.

stinkysox Tue 10-Dec-13 15:59:54

That's another problem holiday.
There's no way of knowing what is actually doing for the last half hour if they are busy getting the other dcs ready to leave.

lynniep Tue 10-Dec-13 16:46:24

I would be unhappy too. Please make a point of saying that you will be arriving between 10 and quarter past and could they not get him dressed in a coat prematurely.

DS2 is always the last to leave his nurseries (I get there just before 6pm - usually with about 4 minutes to spare!) and the staff at both are always playing with him when I arrive, so he never feels like his mummy is late. In fact, I generally have to coax him away so the staff can leave!

Nor am I made to feel bad on the rare occasion that the traffic situation means I am a couple of minutes late)

He usually has his boots on ready as they know he makes a song and dance about getting them on, but he's always 'busy' when I arrive.

teacherlikesapples Tue 10-Dec-13 17:40:53

pooperdoodles- I can understand getting children ready for late parents, that would be helpful, especially if the parents turns up flustered & panicky!But to get children ready during session time, then have them sitting & waiting is not a good use of their time. Not when they are only there a few hours a week- a few minutes every day of sitting and doing nothing, is not good. Unless you are using it as a learning experience- learning to put own shoes on, do buttons up etc... maybe occasionally.

OP- you have every right to assert yourself! They are treating both you & your DC unfairly, they would be completely out of order to treat your child any differently for raising it. Just mention that since the finishing time is 3.15pm you want your child to make the most of it.

Ask to see their timetable to see what is supposed to be scheduled during that time and mention that you don't want your child to be made to feel that you are running late when you are not.

Please use this as an opportunity to stand up for your child, I know it's not easy to do- but you are completely in the right here.

stinkysox Tue 10-Dec-13 18:44:39

Thanks for the advice everyone. Ds is in tomorrow so I'll have a word and report back.

stinkysox Wed 11-Dec-13 13:05:36

Just dropped ds off and decided to take the advice given and use the mn direct approach.
'Just to let you know, I won't be collecting ds until 3.10-3.15. It seems silly that I fight for parking at 3pm when I don't need to.'
Their response:
'As long as you're not late, you get charged when you're late.'
Me:
'No, I won't be late, I'll be here by 3.15. I'm only mentioning it because when I arrived at 3.10 on Monday I was made to feel like I was late, & ds was sat with his coat on. I'm just letting you know not to expect me at 3.'

Go me grin

MammaTJ Wed 11-Dec-13 13:25:13

YAY! Go you indeed!!

stinkysox Wed 11-Dec-13 13:32:42

grin

FastWindow Wed 11-Dec-13 15:59:27

Well said you. And still they felt the need to tell you not to be late, when it is clear that you know very well what the closing time is...

OddBoots Wed 11-Dec-13 16:06:00

I hope they were reasonable when you picked up this evening. smile

fluffyraggies Wed 11-Dec-13 16:16:37

Yes, what happened today at pick up OP?

I'd be (casually) asking DS if he's been sitting with his coat on for ages. As someone upthread said, if the others are arriving at 3 they'll be getting them dressed at quarter to'ish. Poor DS if he's sat around in his coat for 30 mins.

FeisMom Wed 11-Dec-13 16:56:15

Go stinkysox

stinkysox Wed 11-Dec-13 17:07:21

Pleased to say he didn't have his coat on. Another child had fallen over though so they were a little preoccupied.
I was also told ds had been put down for the full 15 hours from Jan when he gets funding, even though I'd told them a couple of es before he'd only be doing 9 hours (3 days). She said this was in case I changed my mind. I reiterated that I wouldn't, at least 1 day a week we visit my dm. She made a few more grumbles about places filling up quickly, and I would only have to pay snack money the days he attends. I told her again he would definitely not be there everyday until she eventually said ok, I'll just put him down for 4 days then!

stinkysox Wed 11-Dec-13 17:08:59

Couple of times that should read

Ragusa Wed 11-Dec-13 17:26:13

Well done you for standing up to them.

They don't sound particularly obliging, do they?!? It could be they would prefer to give places to every-day attendees and somehow feel they have to fiddle the books so it doesn't look too bad on that score.

BakerStreetSaxRift Wed 11-Dec-13 17:26:19

I don't know how nursery funding works, but if your DS is on their books for 15 hours, even though he's not there, will they get paid for 15 hours? Are they trying to stop another child physically being there those extra hours so they have some actual work to do?

Ragusa Wed 11-Dec-13 17:30:16

A provider cannot insist you redeem all your funded hours throuhh them in order to have any sessions at all with them, YSWIM. However I don't think it's necessarily contra the rules for the preschool to give priority in places to every-day attendees and their viability probably depends on having all places filled.

stinkysox Wed 11-Dec-13 17:42:44

The way I see it, if it were my business I wouldn't pencil in a student for more hours than they were actually going to attend, it would make much more sense financially to keep those extra hours open for another child. The only reason I can think of is that they apply for the full funding for each child, regardless of how many hours they're actually doing, to make more money.

RenterNomad Wed 11-Dec-13 20:13:17

Of course they want the extra funding!

neddle Wed 11-Dec-13 20:56:12

If you said to them that you were going to use the other 6 hours somewhere else, they'd have to fill the form in right.
I agree that they're after the extra money - it could go wrong for you if they check up on it and you've signed for 15 hours.

stinkysox Wed 11-Dec-13 20:58:28

Baker sorry I missed your comment before. Yes they will. Tbh I don't think they are in any danger of being full whether my ds does 5 days or not.

Oblomov Wed 11-Dec-13 21:04:50

I too think this is totally unacceptable. Speak to the manger. Say I came in, this happened, is there a problem, because I pay until 3.15, but if you need me to collect earlier....... Embarrass her into realising that this is totally unacceptable.

Ragusa Wed 11-Dec-13 22:29:05

I do think that the nursery are not being great but, then again, maintained nursery schools (e.g., attached to schools, sounds like this is one) are expensive to run, often employing qualified teachers, and the amount paid by LAs for the 15 hours is not typically very generous to say the least. Private nurseries have greater opportunities for revenue raising elsewhere and I would guess typically employe less well-qualified staff.

BuntyPenfold Wed 11-Dec-13 22:35:44

I am amazed. I work in a preschool where the opposite happens.
We count ourselves lucky if all the parents appear at home time.
Some are always late, even an hour late, and I have known days when not one parent was outside at end of day.
Many of them seem to think they are doing us a favour by coming back at all!
We hang round endlessly, trying not to hurt the children's feelings, but really desperate to get away and collect our own children.

stinkysox Wed 11-Dec-13 22:44:10

Bunty that's shocking. Do you not charge for late pick ups like my one?

BuntyPenfold Wed 11-Dec-13 22:46:21

Yes we do, but the charge doesn't cover two staff wages, so we make a loss every time.
Also, some just don't pay their last bill, so we are out of pocket anyway.

stinkysox Wed 11-Dec-13 22:47:48

Ragusa I'm not sure to be honest, but surely it's not really an excuse? I've no problems with the actual school, ds adores it and the staff are lovely with the children. I doubt high costs come from the venue though, the whole thing is just a portacabin!

stinkysox Wed 11-Dec-13 22:49:25

I suppose that's why we had to pay a deposit, to avoid things like that happening. How awful for you, it must be terribly frustrating

BuntyPenfold Wed 11-Dec-13 22:50:41

Our portacabin has a high cost as we pay a large rent to the school whose land it is on.
It is also like heating a sieve so expensive to run.

stinkysox Wed 11-Dec-13 23:00:58

I've just read that it's run by a committee but I'm not really sure what that means confused

BuntyPenfold Wed 11-Dec-13 23:12:05

If it's a registered Preschool, it has to have a committee of chair, treasurer etc and a quorum of parents on the committee to vote on, for example, policy changes.
The committee employ the staff.

BuntyPenfold Wed 11-Dec-13 23:16:47

Just out of interest, is your preschool in England? I just wondered, as if so, they are subject to the same rules as we are.
I'm fairly sure charging a deposit is not actually allowed, and would love to know how much you pay.
It would help us, of course, if people were afraid of losing their deposit, and I'm wondering if we could do that.

stinkysox Wed 11-Dec-13 23:31:51

Yes it's in England, bunty. I pay £6 per 3hr session and paid 2 weeks deposit.

BuntyPenfold Thu 12-Dec-13 07:39:15

That's interesting, thanks Stinkysox.

Bonsoir Thu 12-Dec-13 08:52:11

My DD´s school was like this when she was 2/3 - official hours were 9:00 to 12:00 but the DC came out at 11:45. It made for a very short and inconvenient morning.

BuntyPenfold Thu 12-Dec-13 09:14:52

I don't know how they get away with it. We have 30 minutes paid time after a session, when we clean and set up for next day. Often we can't do either properly, as we are still looking after at least one child.

Then some parents expect a daily heart-to-heart after every session. We regularly leave 30 or more minutes late, and do hours of report writing in our own time too.

stinkysox Thu 12-Dec-13 09:52:59

No problem Bunty I hope you can sort something for yours, it all sounds very frustrating and inconvenient for you, I would be having words with those parents! feeling brave after standing up to someone for the first time

ProudAS Thu 12-Dec-13 10:01:20

Bunty - if I were you I'd demand a deposit and fees in advance and make it clear that if you pick up your children late as a result of parents picking up late from your setting there will be an additional charge to cover that.

As for getting ready for next day a lot of pre-schoolers like to 'help' or will H&S not allow this.

BuntyPenfold Thu 12-Dec-13 10:35:13

Thanks sox

ProudAS, thanks, I will be raising this.
We do give children little tasks to make them feel involved, but we have to mop and hoover and carry rubbish over to school skips, can't with them there.

RenterNomad Thu 12-Dec-13 17:09:23

"I don't think they are in any danger of being full whether my ds does 5 days or not."

Says a lot!

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