To think that if you can't control your children, you shouldn't come to hotels?(326 Posts)
DH and I are currently staying at a very nice boutique hotel in the countryside. It's been a hell of a busy year and so the idea was to treat ourselves to a couple of days somewhere luxurious and to do lots of reading and sleeping. However, we're staying at a place that's converted old outbuildings into suites, two suites to a building. And the family next door have the two noisiest children on the face of the planet.
Yesterday morning we were working up by the children shrieking to one another and then for their mother (it appeared she'd pushed them out into the communal stairwell to play). A phone complaint later to reception and the noise ceased (and they glared at us every time they passed us in the hotel). But damage done, we were already awake (and given that I am exhausted all the time from this pregnancy, it was awful not being able to go back to sleep). Yesterday evening, exactly the same thing. Screaming children sent to "play" on the stairs and landing outside our room where they screamed, ran around and then got into an actual fight (complete with shouted insults and wails for a parent). It happened again this morning at 7am (there goes our lie-in) and this time the call to reception had no effect.
I'm really cross that I haven't been able to have a lie-in because of their lazy parenting. I remember going to hotels with my family when I was small and my mother coming down on me very hard when I was too loud and in danger of disturbing the other guests. They're the only children at the hotel and their running and screaming in the library yesterday was attracting frowns from every other couple there. AIBU to hate the parents of the noisy brats for being so selfish and entitled? My feeling is that when you have kids, you don't get to just ignore behaviour that might be ruining an experience for other people.
But book an adults only hotel next time.
Children making bit of noise is probably unavoidable in public areas of the hotel (reception/lounge etc) but how inconsiderate of the parents letting their DCs scream and shout outside people's rooms at 7am. I would have been furious.
Paxtecum that's part of the problem. Whilst this isn't officially adults-only, it's mainly adults. There are no other children here. But I wouldn't mind them being here in the least if they were just being quiet and behaving nicely. The parents should have taken them out and run them around during the day. It's this kind of awful behaviour that comes to mind when people start whining about how children are being excluded from restaurants etc.
I can understand your irritation, but unfortunately it's a risk you take when booking into a hotel. Next time go for an adults only hotel, or book a boutique rural cottage- the ones where they provide you with a posh hamper of food so you don't have to cook too much or go to the shops.
I'd have asked to move rooms the second they started squawking.
YANBU, boutique hotel or not you don't inflict your kids worst behavior on others, if they're climbing the walls take them outside.
YANBU - that's just piss poor lazy parenting
That's exactly why I'm irritated. Why should the burden be on me to go somewhere isolated? Why is the burden not on the parents to make sure their children know how to behave?
Depending on how bloody livid I would be feeling, I would have knocked on their door and told them to control their children.
I'm usually placid but there's a limit.
I have twice had a weekend break ruined by the noisy, unsupervised children of (presumably drunk) wedding reception guests rampaging up and down the corridors in the early hours banging on doors and shrieking.
Complaints to reception work for a little while, then it starts all over again.
It is all part of the increase in general bad parenting and antisocial behaviour.
It isn't worth the expense of booking a weekend break any more IMO.
Oh that sounds like hell, nothing worse than noisy brats that the parents can't be bothered with-hence the kids being noisy. When you book a hotel you don't expect this kind of behaviour so why should you book adults only. I work in a hotel at senior level so I would advise that you ask to speak to the manager about the problem. Sometimes communication at the higest levels work best.
hmmm I don't think YABU however how old were the children? Do you have children of your own?
I have a 2 year old and a 6 month old and I find that they can make a lot of noise without even meaning to, therefore it's quite hard to keep them quiet. However I wouldn't be taking them to a quiet hotel at this age, would draw the line at somewhere like butlins or haven, so maybe that is irrelevant.
Children do make noise and they are on holiday too however it is up to the parents to keep them amused and out of other people's way, not send them into communal areas on their own.
How annoying! I would want my money back.
I see too many parents letting their kids run riot and smile on at them indulgently!
I have been known to take Dc out for a long walk at 6:30am when on holiday, or for a paddle in the lake/sea.
It is hard to keep them quiet once they're awake but that doesn't mean you have to inflict their noise on people trying to sleep
I would be looking for some kind of refund as well to be honest. If this sort of issue is not managed by the hotel, then a bad review on trip adviser.
Some people are just incredibly selfish.
Why should you book an Adults Only Hotel?
For your own benefit, that's why.
You could have been next door to a colicky baby crying all night.
Though I suppose you could be kept awake all night by noisy neighbours shagging!
throw a packet of crayons at them and some gob stoppers with 'the look'
The age of the children is irrelevant. You don't chuck them out of your room, into communal areas at stupid oclock to disturb others. Yes children make noise, but still no reason to disturb others.
See it as practice for when your baby is here. No lie ins then either.
But seriously, I do understand where you are coming from & when we are away we do try & encourage the children to play quietly. But sometimes it just doesn't happen. It is not always down to lazy parenting, as you will find out soon.
And don't call them brats, they are only doing what their parents are allowing them to do, it isn't their fault.
oh it is the same at restaurants. DH and I spend our time telling the children how to eat nicely, play quietly, talk at a reasonable volume. And they are very young. Our hope is that, in time, our had work will pay off, and this will come naturally to them.
Frustrating though when you see children going bat sh*t crazy at the table next door, and the parents chilling without a care in the world.
they clarly need to buy them ipads - maybe they didnt want shag in front of them...maybe they MNetters and had seen that thread!
Yanbu - that would drive me nuts too. In fact, it's the reason I would never go to such a place voluntarily. But then, I am practically a hermit!
your next weekend break could see a couple just like you sleeping next door to a colicky baby crying all night
So be careful with the judgements & name calling, because believe me, at 6am no one cares if it is a screaming because of playing, or screaming because of colic.
I'd complain, couldn't they have moved you?
I'd be complaining to the management.
It's almost irrelevant that it's children. If you were disturbed by any inconsiderate guests you would complain and expect something to be done. So they should have intervened.
Hippy: exactly my point.
NurseRoscoe: I don't have children yet (I'm pregnant) but I honestly don't see what that has to do with anything? Would I not be allowed to be cross that my rest was disturbed if I were childless? My whole point here isn't to argue that children shouldn't be energetic or noisy, it's to say that if you can't keep them quiet, for whatever reason, you shouldn't bring them with you. Stay at home until they're older or teach them better manners. I'm sorry but I don't see how the natural energy of a child has anything to do with their parents (who presumably fancied a lie-in) sending them outside to a communal hallway to play rather than dealing with them themselves. It's just lazy and ill mannered.
Out of interest is this your first? Because the thing about children is that they might be perfectly behaved at home in their normal routine but completely thrown by a strange hotel and make a lot more noise than usual. Obviously throwing them out to play in the stairwell isn't on, but until that point the parents would have been having a much harder time than you.
And we will be taking 18mo DS to a hotel in a few weeks. Unless you think he should miss his grandfather's wedding so that everyone else in the hotel is less likely to be disturbed? We will of course do everything in our power to keep him quiet, but there are limits to what can be done to make children behave.
Ohh crikes we have been on the other end of this. 2 children who were then about 6 and 9 boutique countryside hotel, first floor room with paper thin walls and creaky floors and it RAINED all weekend. We tried SO hard to be quiet....we really did. Apparently the people below us complained continually. To the point the hotel manager threatened to throw us out... I was totally mortified. We spent the whole weekend tip toeing about and shushing the kids. While everyone in the hotel glared at us. It was the worst weekend away EVER!
Before I actually had DCs, I was determined that they would have impeccable manners at all times.
They would not be allowed to behave badly.
My DCs would not have tantrums, they would eat everything put in front of them, sleep 12 hours each night.
NannyOgg (love the nickname!) I'm being like granny W here aren't I? But I agree with you, it almost doesn't matter who was making the noise. The point was it was preventable.
MinesAPintOfTea if that happens to us we will leave. I wouldn't dream if it was clear that we were disturbing other people. But then I have no plans to kick my children out of the room unsupervised and to ignore the noise.
As for your DS, why would you assume I think you should leave him at home? I've been very clear, I'm not arguing that children shouldn't be allowed in hotels under any circumstances, just if they can't be controlled and are ruining the experience for other people. If you think that's a raleal risk, I think it's selfish to inflict it upon others.
Yanbu. Some parents are lazy and selfish unfortunately.
Real, not raleal, obviously. Stupid phone!
OP: If an 18 month old decides to wail in the middle of the night or 6.00am, it can be quite difficult to shush them up!
Jendot what has rain got to do with anything ? Do your children MELT in the rain ?
OP YANBU. Veteran mother here and I'd have gone spare. There is NO excuse for the kind if behaviour you s
describe. It's perfectly possible to reproduce AND co exist if you fon't believe that you are much more important than anyone else.
Paxtecum; I'm not disputing that. I'm sure it is hard to hush them. But would you deal with it by shoving them into the communal hallway? That's what I'm cross about. Not about the fact that children can be noisy.
HomeIs leaving is fine until its 11pm at night, the child has just woken up and its a 3 hour drive home. Or if you're booked for a weekend having travelled on fixed-time tickets. Sometimes its just not possible.
Actually if DS was generally noisy I wouldn't book a hotel and would miss the wedding
and be glad of the excuse. He's usually perfectly behaved, eats in restaurants quietly except when asking for yet more food and if behaving in a way I want to discourage somewhere he wants to be we leave so that he learns to behave nicely.
If however I let him tantrum his way off trains etc then it would be harder to get him to behave when travelling in future. So yes, he might have a tantrum in the hotel and not be taken out, but that isn't because I don't want him to learn to behave.
And I agree that sending the children into the stairwell was unacceptable and you were right to ring the manager about that.
I'd have demanded the hotel move me to a different - of same standard or better! - room after the first time. They usually get their finger out if they think they'll lose money.
"Obviously throwing them out to play in the stairwell isn't on, but until that point the parents would have been having a much harder time than you."
They are THEIR children, whom they are supposed to be looking after and bringing up.
Babies cry and young DCs don't realise how noisy they are being and it can take a few moments to find them occupation.
Thus being woken up by other peoples DCs may be unavoidable.
However, in these days of lap tops and iPods, chucking them in the corridor and allowing them to continue being noisy is down right rude.
You will find when your child is born you still want to get out and go places and you can't simply park a baby in left luggage, more often than not they have to come too.
Unless you have amazing grandparents, who live next door and don't have a social life and never go on holiday, your DC will annoy someone, sometime.
That's fine, it's being oblivious to the fact they are being annoying, not telling g them off and removing them from the situation that's rude.
Children who are a bit load a d Griffith at their own table are one thing. DDs chucking things from the floor above are quite another.
I would think an "adults only hotel" was something sleazy like a swingers' hotel or similar.
< dirty mind alert >
bit loud and fidgity (sorry it's probably rude to forget I'm on my kindle, which has a barking spell checker)
YANBU at all.
I think we can all understand and appreciate the difference between an upset 18mo and unruly children playing in the stairwell and running up and down the corridor.
I don't care if it had been a high end boutique hotel, or a Premier Inn, I would have complained and asked for a refund and room change. Infact you would have got your money back in a Premier Inn!
I hate it when you are on holiday and people come back with their DC at midnight and gone, and they allow them to run hell for leather down an echoey corridor. It's just so inconsiderate.
I agree that parents should control their children and not let them run riot, I agree that the parents should do everything in their control to ensure their children are not impacting on others, I agree that the onus is on parents to ensure their children know how to behave when out and about.
However, I think you are being HUGELY naïve aswell, as paxtecum said if a baby decides to start screaming in the middle of the night or super early in the morning, it can be almost impossible to shut them up; when the kids decide to act up (they can be best of friends and then at each others throats in the blink of an eye) there is inevitable noise for a minute prior to shutting them up; when children are cooped up for whatever reason, the noise slowly ramps up and is probably not as obvious to the parents who live with it all the time, as it is to the childless couple in the room next door.
(Speaking as a mother of 2 reflux babies, who screamed for what seemed like an eternity but are now v v well behaved boys of 8 & 11 who inevitably fall out/get boisterous on occasion).
That said, I hope you enjoyed your weekend away, and congrats on your pregnancy!
Hmm. I think YANBU, and I normally hate 'zomg children in public how dare they' whining so I think objectively YANBU either. Firstly, I don't get why people would take children to a really posh hotel- maybe if it was the only one in the area but tbh if you have that kind of spare cash then you can afford a holiday rental or somewhere child appropriate. I don't really know what a boutique hotel is but I assume it's pretty obviously somewhere where kids shouldn't be unless they are well behaved, like a posh restaurant, so I would not take preschool age kids there. Older kids can usually behave properly. I think though the main issue is, even if they had been badly behaved, if they were in their room or supervised, clearly they were not creating a noise, so the problem was the parents kicking them out into the hall. Why would you do that? To shag? Being able to have sex at any time you choose is not some kind of basic right so I don't get why they did that. It seems actually quite neglectful, maybe not legally but what if one of the kids had fallen down stairs or something with no parent there to see? I am surprised the hotel didn't tell them to either supervise their children or leave, because it seems pretty dangerous as well as annoying to other guests.
Lol come back when you have your own dc op and talk to me about children being quiet.
paxtecum I don't think the OP was insinuating that the children should be unrealistically well behaved, nor does it sound like she's expecting that her own children will be perfectly well behaved either. I don't think having children or not is an issue in this one, it's about using manners. The children were not being supervised and they were allowed to make a racket in the communal area. The parents should have taken responsibility and tried to entertain them, if the OP still didn't like the noise then that would be a different issue.
YANBU, I'd have been furious.
YANBU and this is quite different from a baby with colic crying through the night, which usually can't be helped. Those parents should have got up and taken the children out for a walk.
I think gidliegh park do this brilliantly, they have a specific family suite with no adjoining rooms and also a small famy cottage adjacent to the main hotel. They are welcoming to families but also quite clear in what they expect from them behaviour wise which I think is great. Unfortunately they are eye wateringly expensive but their good ideas could easily be implemented by other hotels . Also, I manage my children's behaviour when in hotels/restaurants, would never dream of allowing them to behave as you describe. As someone up thread described, my parents & grandparents used to take it in turns to take us out for a walk early early morning walk on holidays.
BalloonSlayer: at "diddums".
YANBU OP. The parents were irresponsible and in the wrong. Children will play up sometimes if out of a routine but as a parent you manage it- you don't shove them out the door and inflict them on others! I think some people are mistaking annoyance at some parents for allowing their kids to be annoying, with those parents who try to be responsible when their kids are acting up.
It's all about the shitty parenting in this case. We have a baby (now toddler) above us, she woke us up sometimes but we just put in headphones and got on with it. It wasn't the baby or the parents fault, that's what babies do. The mum always used to apologise to DP and I and we told her not to worry, that we barely heard the baby and it wasn't a problem. The kids that shoved my small DN out of the way when I took her on a kids train, whose dad was drippy as fuck and just murmured 'play nice boys, they're only little' and then looked gormless while they carried on pushing and shouting at the driver- it was the dad's fault. He should have disciplined his kids, they shouldn't have been bashing toddlers out of the way and being rude to the driver but because he stood there like a limp dick they behaved that way.
PansOnFire: you get me thank you! Exactly. I'm a bit baffled as to why so many people seem to think I'm saying children shouldn't be noisy at all. What I'm saying is don't bring them to a hotels and let them lose in the corridors if you can't control them (and ignore them waking other people up).
PinUpGirl: not quite sure what you mean by that. Again, what difference will it make? I'll still be annoyed if this happens again once I have the baby. I don't like this insinuation that only mothers understand bad behaviour. I have no doubt my children will be noisy and hard to control, but I can tell you without hesitation that I will never ignore bad behaviour and I certainly won't just shove them out of the hotel room to bother other people. Again, it comes down to the fact that we plan not to take them anywhere that we can't be sure is child appropriate until we know they can be trusted, and that we'll act to curb tantrums, not leave them to their own devices.
Motu: thank you for the recommendation, I will look it up once the baby is here!
YANBU. I am in total agreement with you.
and yes - I have had 3 lively children, and, because I knew they were lively and not likely to be silent, I wouldn't go away to a place where I knew they would disturb other people. We always self catered when ours were little for that very reason - far too stressful to try to stop them disturbing others.
Sadly there are too many people in life who think the rest of the world should revolve around their pfbs (you only have to look at the weddings threads )
backforgood: that's what we plan to do too. Rent somewhere self-catering, preferably in the woods, where they can't disturb people!
I'm with you OP, they should never have been allowed into the communal areas at that time but LOL at "we'll act to curb tantrums". As with all new parents, you'll learn. Good luck.
Yabu with the title 'if you can't control your children you shouldn't come to hotels' as no one has complete control of their children 100% of the time. There is bound to be odd instances here and there, it would be worrying if young children were consistently angelic IMO.
However, Yanbu that they shouldn't be sent to play out on the stairs. That is unreasonable and dangerous.
OP, YANBU about this circumstance.
But I agree that you seem a bit unrealistic about what parenting is going to be like.
It sounds as if you are going to have an interesting learning curve when your DC gets to the tantrums phase. You can't actually stop them having a tantrum, you know. In practice, parenting with boundaries is about being clear that no amount of tantrumming is going to make you do what the DC wants. So sometimes you do just have to weather it.
Hope you have a better night tonight.
Errrm, HomeIs, I can pretty much guarantee that you will sometimes ignore bad behaviour, for your own sanity and possibly that of your other children. Or indeed ignore low-level bad behaviour when the other option is much, much worse behaviour...
(Parent of one with ASD here, though, so my standards are pretty darn low!)
What PinupGirl said. Seriously I understand your frustration but as a PP suggested. Sometimes parents have to go with their DCs where they really would rather not (the grandfathers wedding).
"We'll act to curb tantrums'. Good luck with that OP. Seriously.
What misspixie said, absolutely.
Becoming a parent does not mean you want to spend all your time "in the woods".
Good luck with acting to curb tantrums, do come back and tell us how it's done. If you wrote a book it would be a best seller!
I do think, though, that some parents have their view warped by being with their own children so many hours of the day. Quite possibly, 7 a.m. was a long lie-in for them.
I remember complaining to DH when ours were small that I used to wake up to The Archers on a Sunday morning, but these days we were lucky if we slept in until Farming Today...
That's around 5 in the morning, from memory. I'm not much of a 5 a.m. starter these days, thank goodness.
we'll act to curb tantrums
Reminds me of a friend of mine that years ago (before she had children) said "I'll NEVER allow my child to be plopped in front of the telly as a babysitter." Fast forward to tiny baby in a baby swing in front of cbeebies while her desperate mother races in to take a quick shower.
Reality check. Kids are not toys. You can't take out their batteries (oh how I wish) or just switch them off. You have to deal with things as they come, and they don't always follow the rules.
Yes, some parents are inconsiderate. But many are not, it's just an unfortunate circumstance that they're doing their best to deal with.
Curious sudden curve on this thread to my thoughts on parenting (which seem have been misinterpreted). I'll make my point for the third time. I'm not saying children don't have arguments or tantrums, nor that my children won't. I'm saying that if your children are having a tantrum or argument, it's unreasonable to send them out to a communal landing and to ignore them. And that I'm really cross that the parents in the room next to ours did just this meaning that we were woken At 7am on a Sunday.
Again: yes, children can be noisy. But if you can't control them, don't bring them. And if you bring them regardless, keep them in your own room. Don't kick them out to terrorise everyone else.
The fact that the children were chucked out to play in communal areas and annoy other guests sounds selfish and anti social. Since the hotel failed to address the problem I'd be looking for partial refund at least. Unfortunately the lazy and selfish will always be with us, and it means that parents dealing with unavoidable child noise and doing their best get a hard time of it as a result.
I was just about to put what misspixie said and then i saw she'd put it!! ('Never ignore bad behaviour/ curb tantrums' !!
Children playing unsupervised in the hotel corridor is surely a breach of our old friend " elf and safety" ?
It's too late now but I'd have knocked on the bedroom room door of the parents , two ways it could have gone.
1. You're children have woken me so I'm waking you to deal with them.
2. I was really worried you might not know your children are awake and out of their rooms. I thought they might come to harm or perhaps you weren't well? ( accompanied by sweet smile)
Oh and to all the hand wringing apologists I frankly don't care what the reason is. Your enormous sense of entitlement that you are free to spoil other people's holidays is just not on. And yes I did once have a small baby.
I don't think there's any 'but's' or caveats to what you are saying. I've got three kids (all 2 years apart) and if they were noisy before 7am in a hotel i would get them to shut up!
The OP isn't talking about a sick baby crying in the night, or even a one off tantrum. She talking about parents putting their noisy kids in a communal stairwell at silly o'clock in the morning more than once. No excuse.
I think everyone is agreeing that the parents of the DCs in the hallway were BU.
But 'curbing tantrums' comes across as the sort of naive statement made by someone who has no children (yet).
Thank you Caitlin17. Actually you're quite right, I could have pretended that I thought they might not be aware. I will try that one next time.
Agreed re entitled people thinking it's ok to ruin other people's holidays. It isn't!
YANBU - this is precisely why when we go away with DS we stay in cottages or caravans where possible, not hotels. However we could take him to hotels if we chose as I like to think that we know enough about appropriate behaviour to make sure he didn't inconvenience or upset the other guests.
It is different to be woken in the night by children that can't sleep and are crying - this happened to us when we stayed in the Hilton at Aviemore at around midnight, it was a bit annoying to be woken up, but I felt sorry for the parents as I'm sure they needed their sleep more than we did, oh and we were staying in a family room, so likely other family rooms around us.
In this case the parents had a totally reasonable option of <gasp> actually parenting their own children so as not to spoil the enjoyment of the other guests around them. One parent should have taken the DCs out for a walk or early breakfast, or stuck them in front of childrens TV, or done just about anything to ensure that the peace of the people beside them was not disturbed, apart from anything else from the behaviour described the DCs sound quite young, so sticking them on the stairs sounds a rather unsafe option.
I would have complained too OP, in the same way that we complained when having a DS free night at a boutique hotel and a huge and long row erupted between the couple in the room next door starting from 11.30pm onwards - at least that had the benefit of being quite interesting.
Ah I'm sorry to hear your rest was disturbed. You need your sleep so much when you're upduffed. Yanbu, in that a boutique hotel of the type you describe seems an odd and selfish choice for a family with young children. I have a 1 year old and wouldn't go for somewhere like that, for that reason. Unfortunately though, that's just the risk you take when you choose to go to a hotel- other people. As pointed out upthread, even in an adults only hotel you could just as easily be woken up by shagging noise. If you want total peace and quiet, you have to go to somewhere more secluded. Little cottage up the back end of nowhere perhaps.
Also I hate to break it to you but keeping a young child quiet when they want to get up and/or make noise at the crack of dawn is not always a possibility! you can take them out for a walk or whatever, but they'll still make a noise while you get ready. You can and should try, but you will often fail and you'll look back in a year or two and laugh at your acting to curb tantrums idea. But that's why I wouldn't take a young child to anywhere that wasn't obviously a family place, unless I had no other option. And it's totally unreasonable to shove them out on the stairs unsupervised too.
Id have complained to the hotel. But if nothing happened fairly rapidly I'd have stormed out into the lobby bit and told the kids off very loudly. And then hammered their door and told the parents very forcefully about what I thought about their selfish behaviour in letting their kids ruin your second morning lie in and demand that they stop having sex and look after their own kids instead of letting them ruin the rest of the morning.
I bet the reason they didn't shut up this morning is because they kicked the kids out of the room so they could relax and then unplugged the phone so reception couldn't call them to complain.
A colicky baby is one thing. Unsupervised shrieky children running up and down the hall is quite another.
Rookie you're quite right. They were young but not toddlers, I'd guess about 5 and 7 maybe? I still can't get over the fact that their parents just booted them out!
Lots of jumping on the OP's "naivety". There's a hell of a difference between a colicky baby / poorly toddler crying throughout the night, and two children being chucked out into the communal hallways of a hotel to play very loudly, very early in the morning.
The former is unfortunate but unavoidable. The latter is just bloody bad manners.
OP - YANBU.
Children can be quiet, imo, especially if they are old enough to be turfed out into a corridor to piss off every other guest in the hotel.
Every hotel I have been in for the last 20+ years has had a TV in the room, I would have put that on. If it hadn't, I would have taken books, gadgets, colouring etc to keep them occupied.
Oh and to all the hand wringing apologists I frankly don't care what the reason is. Your enormous sense of entitlement that you are free to spoil other people's holidays is just not on. And yes I did once have a small baby.
^ This, exactly this!!!!!!!
OP: Why are you MNing when you are trying to have a peaceful weekend away?
And this is why I don't do hotels with my children - its just too stressful. The one time we did do lovely hotel in the cotswolds I spent the whole time shushing them that it was no fun for everyone.
YANBU - very naughty to send the children into the communal area.
I took the comments on the OP made to mean she wouldn't ignore the effects on others rather than she was going to be some sort of miracle worker.
The children being discussed here aren't babies or toddlers from the sounds of it they're old enough to be bundled up and shooed outside with one of the parents.
OP is not slating parents of small children to young to reason with, or coming across as if she has pie in the sky ideas of parenthood.
It is anti-social and rude for the parents to let two children run riot in the corridor of a hotel no matter what the time of day is to be honest. There could be someone trying to get a toddler off for a nap in one of the rooms - which childs rights trump the others then?
That would really do my head in. At 5 and 7 they are old enough to behave themselves too, completely different from toddler tantrums (unless of course they have underlying issues which in this case I doubt as they were on their own)
The comments in this thread made me ask my mum what were me and my brothers like, apparently we never tantrummed. So either she put the fear of god into us or she was blessed with 3 angelic children. I suspect the former.
OP: Why are you MNing when you are trying to have a peaceful weekend away?
Because she wants to? Part of relaxing is having time to yourself, maybe do a bit of chatting online...
We stopped overnight in a travel inn type place on the way to Wales over the summer, staying in a family room. My DD2 2.5yo threw the mother of all tantrums at about 10.30pm and it went on for a while 9teething the last of her molars). DD1 4.5 joined in at times as she was disturbed by this. DH and I did everything we could but there was no stopping this tantrum. I felt sorry for our neighbours but there was nothing I could do at midnight in the middle of Birmingham.
I would never take them to a 'naice' hotel at the moment. On the holiday I had refused to share a single space with the ILs as FIL has zero tolerance for childhood noise
If I ever catch him smacking one of my children for merely being ordinarily boisterous again he will also get a smack... Even then we ended up with a nephew using our living room as a bedroom so we had to keep the kids quiet all week. The night he bashed on the ceiling at 3am as DD2 was screaming in pain, while the calpol/brufen combo got to work, was his last night there.
Having said that 6 months later (with all teeth present) they are getting much better at room shares in other places. So we're giving the same hotel another try over Xmas. Fingers crossed.
The worst disturbance we've had in hotels was from adults.
Last time we stayed in a budget hotel the people in the next room had visitors in until after 11.30pm, all singing and chatting loudly; then up again at 6am making even more noise.
And we've given up staying in more expensive hotels on a Saturday night after being disturbed by wedding parties. We got a huge refund from Hilton after a night of listening to drunken yobs roaring up and down the corridor; trying our door; someone ringing our room at 3am etc etc.
On the one hand what you've described is a reflection of the "I'll do what I want" endemic in our society. On the other I'd be interested in your views in about 5 years time
This thread is hilarious.
The op continuously and patiently explains that the tantrumming/crying/early waking DC were understandable and she was obviously not delighted but all such behaviours are unavoidable and not a problem.
Her issue is with the parents continuously sending the chikdren to play on the stairs so that they annoy someone else, not them.
Yet hours later people are still snarking away with the 'oh yeah - well good luck with having non tantrumming toddlers ' style shite.
There should be an extension to RTFT which encompasses 'and don't reply if you can't understand it and btw you are not Jeremy Paxman so stop trying to reinterpret everything said to try and make your spurious nonsense relevant'
Um, no. OP said something ridiculous then backtracked. I still think she's NBU on the whole, but saying you'd take action to curb tantrums is asking for trouble. I don't think anyone is disagreeing that it was wrong (and bloody unsafe!) to shove them out unsupervised.
I think 'curbing tantrums' meant not inflicting them on other people by shoving dc in the stairwell. But people love a chance to accuse posters of being smug
Pagwatch your post needs a like button
OP YANBU Obviously you were unfortunate to end up besides a couple of selfish fuckwits who didn't give a damn that their kids disturbed other people so long as they weren't bothered by them.
You can infer that if you want Pagwatch. It wasn't what OP said, though, so it isn't going to stop anyone pointing that out. Personally I'd use the word innocent rather than smug anyway. We've all been there. I promise not to remind her of this if she comes back for support dealing with toddler tantrums in a couple of years!
It's funny how people have gotten so defensive over someone saying they'd try to 'curb tantrums'. Surely we all try to curb tantrums. Sure, it doesn't always work but hey ho
Not every toddler has tantrums, Chunderella. DS1 didn't.
I agree with what Pagwatch has posted.
Pagwatch thank you. You've hit the nail on the head. Bit confused by the sidetracking here!
Chunderella; I've never backtracked and you're talking about two different points. I was cross because the kids were sent away to annoy us and the parents did nothing about it. I mentioned that when my child is born I will try to deal with tantrums on a different post - and stand by it. I never said it would always work (indeed, I'm sure it won't always work) but I will always try. And if I know, in advance, that my children arent old enough to be able to behave, I won't take them to hotels and I certainly won't ignore them. My whole point is that the parents in this case did nothing, nothing at all, to curb the behaviour of their children. Actually that's not true. Clearly they found their children as tedious as we did because their only action was to boot them out so they didn't have to deal with them!
I hope you didn't get charged the full price OP?
Lucky you. Most do though, its a normal part of the developmental process. You're also lucky to be able to magically divine words in posts that aren't there.
Yes indeed DoYouLikeMyBaubles
I used to curb tantrums by taking them home/ignoring or drinking gin.
Thanks Chunderella. I tend to chose what I infer all on my own but your permission is really great <thumbs up>
I miss toddler tantrums, they were a 1000 times easier than teenage ones!
Sorry that last was to Invisible and posted before seeing OPs latest.
Yes OP I know you're talking about two different points and I, like everyone else, agree with one of them. But you're going to get a response when you talk about acting to curb tantrums because that simply isn't always possible. Actually I'd say you've had it fairly easy so far, hopefully because people are being nice on account of sleep deprivation during pregnancy being a horrible thing. On most threads where a poster says they would/do control their DC during tantrums, someone has normally asked by now how you think you'd manage if they had SEN. I do hope you get a better sleep tonight.
Yes Pagwatch that much was obvious. You'd managed to make something up before I'd even broached it with you- clearly you're really good at it!
You're also lucky to be able to magically divine words in posts that aren't there.
WTF does that mean?.
It means that's what Pagwatch did and you said you agreed with her.
Try Babington House, or similar, next time OP as they put families with children in a separate building. Much better for everyone and peace for those who seek it.
No, in your opinion Pagwatch did that, not mine!
Do suites not normally come with separate sitting rooms - why couldn't they play in there?
Nothing about your post is misunderstood. You're just narked some people are disagreeing with you. The whole point of a tantrum is to ignore them. The parent didn't choose the best place to place them but that is probably what they were doing. "Don't bring them here to terrorise everyone else". "Why is the onus on us to go where
little terrorists kids aren't". Why should the onus be on parents to not go to a relatives wedding on the off chance one of the kids might play up for ten mins and piss of someone they've never met before? YNBU to expect a bit of Peace and quiet and for parentS. Not to use the communal hallway. YABU to think that "we'll act to curb tantrums" is not going to get you some slack on here.
I didn't say it was your opinion that she did it. Because it isn't a matter of opinion.
Last Easter we took our two well-behaved DCs to a lovely country hotel where we were kept awake all night by the middle-aged insomniacs loudly pacing the floor in the room above us. I nearly got stabby. Unfortunately, people are in their bubbles and to hell with the rest of us.
No thanks. The biscuit is shite
It reads more like the parents were neglecting the children.
I agree OP but the way these days seems to be to let children run riot with little thought to how much worse they will behave by the time they are older.
Their parents are probably unaware themselves of the correct ways to behave.
Chunderella I'll have the chocolate ones thanks
Alas I don't think we have an emoticon for that, just the slightly boring lookng jammy dodger. HQ are failing in their duty. Perhaps one of my special cuntcakes instead.
I have some chocolate chippyfucker cookies if anyone is desperate
How do you know it's lazy parenting? I'm assuming you're not a parent. Best of luck when you are though, it's a real eye opener.
They weren't attempting to control them, though. They were allowing them to play outside in the corridor. Agree they should have got up and done something with them though.
They were probably hungry and trying to annoy their parents enough to make them get up and take them for breakfast. Most dc wake up and want to eat. Letting them play in corridors was thoughtless.
I certainly wouldn't approach guests myself. That's what the hotel manager is for.
Op, your hotel should give you a rebate or you could ask to move rooms.
yanbu, to many parents are selfish, inconsiderate shits and it's not fair that other people have to suffer the consequences. I'd demand a refund from the hotel for not properly dealing with them. Complain and get your money back. If they don't compensate you, complain on tripadvisor so other travelers know to avoid the place.
No thanks I'm not a fan of chocolate chip
remind me of dead flies biscuits
Loveolives - the parents put their children into the corridor outside the OP's room, early in the morning, to play noisily - not once, but twice. They did not get up with their own children or attempt to amuse them quietly in any way - how is that not lazy parenting?
I'm overjoyed when I hear someone else's kids - just relieved it's not mine!
How do you know it's lazy parenting? I'm assuming you're not a parent. Best of luck when you are though, it's a real eye opener. Yabu
I really think you should read the thread. All of it.
Actually in all fairness I do think that the hotel did what they could. It's not their fault and they did ask the parents to deal with their offspring and to bring them back inside the room. Sadly the place was fully booked so we couldn't be moved. And as they're the only children here I don't think the hotel has to deal with this sort of thing very often. I'm not sure it'd be fair to give them a bad rating on trip advisor when they'd done what they could. I actually love this hotel and other than the fact that we both (including my non-pregnant dh, for the benefit of those that said other people were just being kind because I'm carrying a fetus) wanted to sleep in, it's been lovely. It was just such a shame. We're so tired and have been looking forward to this treat for ages. Shame that part of it was spoiled by selfish people.
I also now have a slight crush on Pagwatch. "Chocolate chippyfucker" made me grin!
Chunderella I think we'll have to leave it there don't you? You don't seem to have grasped what I meant by my original post or anything I've said subsequently. Please don't take it personally. (And I'm confused about the SEN comment but you seem to be getting quite upset so I suggest we just drop it?).
Charley barley: given that they glared at us when they saw us in the breakfast room yesterday, it's quite possible you're right. They seemed genuinely cross that we'd complained.
We all grasped what you meant in your original post.
I hope you glared back!
Did the hotel offer you a reduction in your bill?
More to the point we all agreed with you that the parents shouldn't have booted them out per se.
saintlyjimjams me too! . As are 98% of the Parenting Population.
I have a large family so we are generally noisier than most simply due to numbers and I would be FUMING if my kids behaved like that in a hotel. I dont expect perfection but I do expect them to behave in a way that doesnt disturb other people. I would be absolutely mortified if someone complained about us and would be apologising not glaring!
All the accusations that the OP will find out what its like when she has her baby seems to be excuse making from other lazy parents! If you cant stop your child disturbing others then sodding well stay at home!
YANBU. This is precisely the reason why we don't stay in hotels with the children. They aren't particularly naughty, but they do rise early and make a fair amount of noise. It's just not on to inflict that on other guests.
This family should be getting up with their kids and taking them out, not letting them run about the hotel disturbing other guests. It's crap (I know from the couple of times I've had to do it for weddings), but it's part of being a parent. I've been out in the hotel gardens at 6am before (away from the hotel) to entertain mine and not back before breakfast is available. Not my idea of a relaxing time, but it's necessary.
I would have complained to the hotel staff OP.
I'd be annoyed too.
Noise coming from the next room, understandable if annoying.
Noise coming from stairwell and corridor, not acceptable.
I'd email the hotel. Say that you complained twice about the 7am noise, that it spoilt your long awaited and needed break before the birth of your baby, and ask for them to recompense you for the spoilt weekend.
Don't let it go.
Sorry OP but misspixie had it right- you weren't misunderstood, you're just not happy about being disagreed with. But I remember what it was like to be pregnant and knackered, and if ever there was a time to BU, that's it.
With regards to the SEN thing- you may be aware that sometimes children with SEN have meltdowns in public (although not all- my Dsis never did, she had a selection of other behaviours guaranteed to cause tutting though). The parents are not always able to do anything about this and indeed sometimes it isn't helpful to try. So usually when people say that they'd curb tantrums if it were their DC, or anything along those lines, posters point out that it isn't always a possibility with an SEN child. And the person who said this is normally asked how they know the child/ren concerned didn't have SEN, as it's not always obvious. It comes up a lot and tends to end in a flaming for the complainant. That's what I was referring to.
I think the OP has explained herself well.
<parent of Championship tantrumming ex-toddler>
With this new nickname, I don't even really need to type any more - I can just direct Chunder to my name.
I have a child with SN, as does Pag.
Honestly - there are many threads that I would query if SN were potentially an issue. This isn't one of them.
Not surprising really OP. Ill-mannered parents generally have ill-mannered children unless they are fortunate enough to encounter more positive role models in their lives.
Oh and anyway this thread wasn't about tantrums.
Chunder What you say about SEN is true however, there is no evidence to suggest that these children did have SEN. There was no meltdown, just kids screaming and shouting at each other with no parental control. Also, if the kids did have SEN the presumably the parents would take greater care to keep them safe and not boot them out into a corridor alone? Also, the "meltdown" would have continued after they were returned to their room and it didnt.
And if they did by some chance have issues, well lazy and neglectful parenting is not confined to parents of children without SEN.
When I go to hotels it's usually adults talking loudly in the hallway, adults flushing toilets or showering in early morning, adults stumbling in drunk, adults closing their doors loudly -- that prevent me from lie-ins.
I once had a holiday ruined by other peoples children. There was a sign next to the gorgeous infinity pool looking over the Med on Lindos Bay saying 'STRICTLY NO CHILDREN IN THIS POOL' followed by directions to the other general pool and childrens pool. The pool had no shallow bit so probably H&S issue too, partly as well as to preserve it for a quiet pool for the grown ups.
Though the sign was in English the only people that didn't seem to understand it were two British families . Incidentally we had deliberately picked the fortnight after the (British) schools had gone back after summer hols. We both have grown up children now , so done that bought the Tshirt etc. and so deliberately picked dates likely to be many less children/quieter <shrugs, so shoot me>. Though l appreciate the school hols more expensive argument blah blah, whole other thread.
First morning there l went for an early swim when the pool opened at 8am and was just bobbing around looking out over the sea in the sunshine and thinking l had died and gone to heaven. Bliss.
Next minute 'SPLASH' as out comes Mr and Mrs Rulesdontapplytous with their two sons aged around 5 and 8 who decided their morning entertainment would be to firebomb the pool repeatedly and drench yours truly all over her face and hair (I hate getting water over my head - whole other thread again) and laughing hysterically at my futile efforts to evade and following me round edge of the pool in order to jump in as near as possible to me every time.
I got out after shouting a few 'Oi's at the children which were ignored by parents and then getting out and politely pointing parents to large sign , which was greeted with loads of abuse 'wind your neck in' and 'our chalet is on this level so why should we go down the steps to other pools just because of a madam like you' etc etc. I then reported this to a passing member of staff (who hadn't reacted to the children in the 'NO CHILDREN' pool) who said l needed to speak to the manager. The manager wasn't there and none of the staff were willing to challenge this couple so they carried on.
I did continually harass them though and 'reminded' them at two minute intervals that the pool was 'NO CHILDREN' I refused to be intimidated by them or worse still leave them to enjoy the run of the pool ! The next few days they possibly thought better of it (and were 'sighted' in the other pools) but then resumed using infinity pool again. Luckily it worked out l didn't clash with them again.
Karma ? Dad slipped and broke his arm on last day of their week on the tiles on the outer border of the pool (beyond the drainage bit) which were drenched by his sons firebombing activities.
and if there is a God they will have had no holiday insurance
All the accusations that the OP will find out what its like when she has her baby seems to be excuse making from other lazy parents! If you cant stop your child disturbing others then sodding well stay at home!
^^ This, 100%.
Stop trying to defend the undefendable. (Looks at Chunder......)
Yeh. Stay at home and shove them in the corner of the mansion with the governess . Its 2013 not 1913.
What do you mean misspixie?
Ooh there's a thought
now that mine are grown up 'children should be seen but not heard'.
Ooh am with you op. not as bad but we went to a gorgeous cafe at the weekend my with our and my sisters dc ranging between 3 and 7. At the next table were 2 mothers with similar age kids who chatted to each other as their horrors rampaged around the cafe particularly targeting a child free couple trying to have a conversation. Shrieking fighting pushing while their pathetic mothers ignored them. All our kids sat and coloured and when they got restless we left. Hate it when people either aren't aware or don't care how their kids behaviour impacts on innocent bystanders.
The whole "if you can't control your children then sodding well stay at home!" Debacle. Isn't that what parenting is about? Learning to control your kids? teach them right from wrong etc? Believe me there are MANY times I would rather stay at home like many other mums but sometimes
shit happens and things need doing. No one on this thread has told this OP that she was unreasonable for thinking the parents shouldn't have booted the kids into a communal stairway/hallway. No one.
Miss if that was aimed at my comments about staying at home, then you should know that I have 6 children and for that reason we never go to hotels, never stay in chalets or apartments that are linked to others, and always ask to be places in out of the way areas on holiday or areas where a bit of noise wont hurt. We are noisier than most families as there are more of us, not due to behaviour issues.
All it takes is some thought for other people and not to ride roughshod over others rights to privacy and enjoyment in the name of ME ME ME!!!
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
The date's irrelevant. Lazy, crap parents don't have the right to inflict their badly behaved children on other people.
It's a time bound problem op. In a year or so you'll be so knackered you'll sleep through an entire toddler group marauding through the hotel.
The parents were being unrealistic in taking their chook reek to this hotel though. My ILs are desperate for us to take our young kids to their med holiday home on a retirement complex and don't understand why we won't despite repeated explanations. Some people just don't see the obvious until it is right in front of them. Ido agree with going to an adults only place.
Try complaining to the manager or hit their fb /twitter, that usually has some effect?
Miss X post.
In response to your "things need to be done" well yes they do, but I wasnt aware that a lie in was something that needed to be done, and especially not at the detriment of other hotel guests. They may have been at a wedding or some such, ok so unavoidable hotel stay. What WASNT unavoidable was the racket the kids made, the way the parents dealt with it (or rather, didnt) and their staggering selfishness. Why should their lie in be more important than anyone elses?!
Meant to add that if a child is behaving badly/tantrumming but you can see the parent(s) trying to do something then I have sympathy with them. It's the ones who don't bother/behave in the same way as the parents in the op who annoy me.
Children not chook reek (though no one should take that either)
Cold that would all be plausible, if they had not done the same the next day and then totally ignored the phone call telling them to pack it in, presumably because they were getting their revenge on the OP for complaining the previous day!
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
YABU when you go to a hotel you have to accept that people might be staying there who do things you don't like. This is what life will be like when your baby comes, I hope you can be more understanding then for your sake.
Bogeyface it saddens me that other people's attitudes have caused you to think that. I have a fostering friend who can be fostering up to 12at a time. They take them on holiday and get glares comments the works etc. Have people move tables when they see them come in and then get profuse apologies from the staff afterwards when they realise how very well behaved too. You mention you always choose to go somewhere out the way of others. How do we know the parent in this scenario didn't ask for this in the first place, after all OP did say it was fully booked.
Cold it doesnt say that, I am just guessing! But it seems a bit of a coincidence that it happened again, after they were giving the OP evils after the original complaint.
And yes, I know someone who would do that, he is just like the sort of parent described here. Selfish, lazy and spiteful. And of course his children aren't little shits at all! No, they are little angels and the reason they are no longer invited to parties, and they as a family are never invited anywhere, is because we are all snobs who cant deal with a "spirited"
little fucker child.
Never said their lie-in was more important than anyone else's did I? I was replying to your "sodding well stay at home" comment.
It's all about training. Parents are supposed to train their children to be decent, polite members of society. And mainly not to annoy other people. My dcs are extremely well behaved in restaurants/hotels. I would have half-murdered them if they had even for one second entertained the notion of getting down from the table at any point, or made any inappropriate noise.
Recently we stayed at a vair posh hotel and I noticed that dogs were permitted in some rooms. Ah, I thought, we could have brought Dog. Then I thought again. Dog would have created havoc: eaten a few pillows, left copious amounts of hair on the high threadcount bed linen and devoured the hospitality tray, very much including the tray. So for that reason I speedily concluded that it would have been foolhardy to have brought Dog. If only people could go through that thought process about their children.
it saddens me that other people's attitudes have caused you to think that Caused me to think what? That we should all consider others when comes to our behaviour or that of our children?
That a couple wanting a
shag lie in without their kids in the room is staggeringly selfish when said kids are causing a riot and disturbing other people?
This is what life will be like when your baby comes, I hope you can be more understanding then for your sake.
My life isnt like that, I cant imagine why anyones would be. Do as you would be done by, that holds true whether you have no children or 20.
DejaVuAllOveragain I agree. The parents in this scenario sound like the latter which we are all in agreement with. What irked people is the "we'll curb the tantrums" "stop your children terrorising other guests" comments from the OP. All of which were misunderstood by people who dared to disagree.
Miss yes and I was replying to you "things need to be done". There is a world of difference between taking 2 truculent toddlers to Tesco because you are out of everything, and having a lie in together. One is absolutely essential, the other is nice if you can manage it but one of those things you pretty much have to kiss goodbye to when you have kids.
I hope you can be more understanding then for your sake.
I fail to see why anyone has to be 'understanding' about someone's bad behaviour.
Caused you to think you can't take your kids to a hotel in case someone gets a bit narked at the mere presence of kids. OP actually never said this was an adult only hotel by the way. And again no one is disagreeing with her about the fact the parents were disrespectful.
* You mention you always choose to go somewhere out the way of others. How do we know the parent in this scenario didn't ask for this in the first place, after all OP did say it was fully booked.*
Because they would have apologised to the OP for disturbing them.
"This is what life will be like when your baby comes" was you addressing me with that reply Bogeyface? Because I never actually said that. Anywhere.
NannyOgg I was suggesting that could have been a possibility. Yet given the parents attitudes I can't begin to think they would have the good manners to do that. I,along with many others have repeatedly stated the parents choice to do nothing regarding the kids behaviour was unreasonable. It was the following comments which people told her she was BU for.
No Miss it was a PP.
I dont go to hotels with them because I know how I would feel if I was having a weekend away and was disturbed by a tribe of kids (we are a tribe!). They have good manners, do try and be respectful but at the end of the day they are children. So we go self catering, away from others if we can, so they can run riot and not disturb anyone but me.
I dont get why that is unreasonable! I do it because while I chose to have children, I dont expect anyone else to put up with their noise, and children do make noise.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Of course they do. Again no one has said OP was unreasonable for wanting such. She was unreasonable with her subsequent comments.
OFGS- children shoved out into the corridor to play while their parents get jiggy/sleep are noisy brats.
I'm astounded by the amount of people who simply don't give a fuck about anybody else. Truly.
OddFodd no one has said they weren't.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
I think hotels are a pretty rubbish option when travelling with DC personally. I'd rather book a nice self catering place where you have more room for them to do their thing without disturbing others.
Also, I never personally find staying in a hotel very relaxing as I wake up as soon as other guests start opening and closing room doors, running showers etc.
I don't think you have to be delicate (for any reason), to not want to be woken up much earlier than you'd like, on a special weekend away, by someone else's children making a racket because their parents don't appear to see it as their responsibility to keep their children reasonably quiet!
Monkeyface - are you saying it is OK for parents to let their children play noisily outside other guests' rooms? Would you let your children do this?
Pixie i'm sorry that expressing my intention to TRY to limit irritating behaviour From my future child has bothered you so much. Clearly my audacity at having an opinion on how i am going to try to raise a child not to terrorise other people is breathtaking given that I am not yet a mother! The nerve!
I don't know if the noise continuing this morning after the manager called them was revenge (it hadn't occurred to me!) but it was certainly irritating, whatever caused it. I will admit I'm staggered at a couple of posters that persist in insinuating that the fact that I don't have children yet as pertinent. I have to say, if be just as cross if I wasn't pregnant. Manners are manners and inconveniencing people in any way shows a severe lack of them. And I actually feel quite sorry for the hotel staff. I can see that this puts them in an impossible position.
That said, other than that it's been a marvellous weekend. So you see, lax parents, you didn't break us! And we get the last laugh - we just had to grit our teeth and bear it for two nights. You have to take your children home and live with
the monsters you've created them!
Like I said before, people are awfully defensive at the OP voicing that she'd try to curb tantrums. Why is that I wonder? I suspect there's a lot of personal projection going on.
Not particularly, cold. It was directed at anyone who's having a pop at the OP for a couple of misjudged comments when she was answering challenges. Her responses actually have fuck all to do with what she actually asked in the OP and yet people are using those as an excuse to rail against her.
It's akin to the level of pedantry on MN where people refuse to acknowledge the OP may have had a point because of a misplaced apostrophe in their fifth post.
I think AIBU has become a bit of a blood sport tbh. It's pretty unedifying.
Hmm. Slightly fraught in my post above re future child. Apologies. I'm just a but taken aback at the ferocity with which a small sideline of the post has been seized upon and misquoted.
But for the record I can categorically say I will never let my children behave like that. So there.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
When I was pregnant we went out for lunch with my parents. At a nearby table a girl about 2-3 was having an almighty tantrum which went on and on and on. Parents sat there doing sod all about it - presumably immune to the racket. Got so bad that we ended up moving to another part of the pub - thankfully with a door in between us and the racket.
I remember telling people this story and getting the funny looks and the ooh wait until your DC arrives ho ho, but I can assure you that our DS has never kicked up a storm in a restaurant. When he was younger he could get a little fussy if we had to wait for a long time, and in those circumstances I would just take him out for a walk until the food was likely to arrive. That's what one does when you want to go out with a young DC without inconveniencing others.
As a result I have little patience with other peoples children disrupting things. Yes there are circumstances beyond a parent or carers control, but a weekend in a posh hotel doesn't seem to be one of them.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
I just can't believe the people who are pointing out that adult only hotels are available. As if we didn't know that already.
For crying out loud, people enjoy the presence of children, just not children who take over, unchecked, and ruin the whole experience for everyone in close proximity.
Not adding SN to the equation, but OP please be assured that it's perfectly possible to have children and take them anywhere within reason and for everyone to have a really good time, including everyone around you.
We've not been over attentive or full on parents, but we are aware of the wider situation and have taken ours on holidays, flights, to hotels, cinema, theatre and restaurants etc. and only once caused a problem to people around us, that was a long distance flight with a child who developed an ear problem.
Nevertheless it wasn't beyond reasonable control for people sitting close by and we didn't get any grief for it.
My pet hate is people who say 'children will be children' which has often appeared to mean that the parents are totally disengaged.
There aren't many people who are intolerant to situations where parents are doing their best, or, who are unfeeling for children in some kind of distress.
Parents who are disconnected or oblivious are a different matter altogether.
And you say I'm audacious OP. Righty then. NO ONE has said that anywhere. Theyve said your Naive if you think its THAT easy to keep a kid quite. You might have missed it because its only been mentioned a few
thousand times. That we ALL AGREE with you Re THESE PARENTS. Jesus wept!
ColdLightOfDay precisely my opinion too.
They are 100% in the wrong. But so are the drunks who carouse till 4pm. And the people who play their music too loudly on the bus. Or who don't clear up dog poo. People who think public spaces are just playgrounds for themselves alone. I feel for you.
If it's 7am in a hotel, you don't let your children play in the corridor. One of you gets up and puts them in front of cartoons with some juice or milk. Or even takes them out for a walk. But you don't let them make a loud noise outside. It's just selfish.
Oh so now you weren't misunderstood you were misquoted?
Can we talk about parents who let their noisy kids ruin school plays, too??!!
nkf absolutely no one has said otherwise on this thread.
Arf at I'll never let my kids behave like that and as for the monsters comment. Wow. Just wow.
Actually I think its the title which got everyone's backs up. Because however you try to instil good manners, consequences etc you can never completely control a child which is what the title implied. If I could control ds I wouldn't be sat mning in the dark by his bed, that doesn't mean that when he got tetchy in the pub earlier we let him run amock, we finished off and left swiftly.
Obviously kicking the children out to play in the corridor was wrong, but the op had a general rant about the children who aren't under perfect control in hotels before mentioning that spectacularly bad piece of parenting.
monicolewinski its normally noisy parents that spoil ours!
I'm with you OP.
Several times on holiday a lie-in has been destroyed or my pool time has been ripped apart because some kids are making too much noise, splashing, swearing or running around like headless chickens. I know children should have fun and if they aren't overly noisy and are being careful and near their parents, I see no problem with it. But really, is right next to others at the pool or on the stairwell the best place? I got splashed all over by some local boys who were around 11/12 a few years ago. They were literally touching the bottom of my deckchair with their legs so they knew it was very close. My camera, glasses and towel got drenched. Some of the smaller kids are a little more cute though
The worst when I was pregnant though was visiting my fiancés grandmothers house. She had some of his cousins over who are bloody noisy (8 to 18 years old). When they weren't arguing with a parent or his nan or each other his nan would go out to the shops and her dog would constantly bark. No breaks at all. Literally. So if she went into town to do some shopping which she did when I had bad morning sickness the dog was in the house barking constantly. I could've killed the dog and I am the biggest animal lover there is. It just drove me crazy.
But I'm not a miserable person, honest. I sound miserable in the above things and I'm not, I love seeing young kids playing and hear little doggies having fun but it has to be appropriate and not constant and at stupid times of the day (11pm is not a time for 5/6 year olds to play swinging on banisters, no?).
But otherwise I'm sure you had a lovely holiday? Had a nice massage, a dip in the pool - I imagine it wasn't completely ruined by the children being noisy.
Soon, you'll have to put up with the extra noise for the rest of your life. Enjoy
I know. I was just adding my twopence.
I do feel for you OP and the parents were inconsiderate in this instance. HOWEVER, I'm sure in a few years' time you will start to understand how silly your comments re 'controlling' one's children are.
You say you will act to curb tantrums, but the only way to do that ultimately is to never give in to them, which means you might one day find yourself on a packed train/restaurant with strangers tutting at you about not being able to control your child. You will know that you're doing the right thing, but believe me other people around won't be praising your parenting skills!
I'm getting really cross on the OP's behalf reading this. She's entitled to be annoyed at having a well-earned relaxing break ruined by noisy brats. It's not because she's 'over-sensitive', or 'doesn't understand what it's like to have children', it's because the other people are selfish and rude!
All this talk of 'tantrumming' children, or screaming babies is completely irrelevant because the children in question are clearly old enough to be left to their own devices and should be long past tantrums. The only reason they are loud and annoying is because they've never been taught to have any consideration for others by their useless parents. It has probably never even crossed any of their tiny minds that they are not the only ones in the hotel and that the corridor is not actually a playground.
Arf at I'll never let my kids behave like that and as for the monsters comment. Wow. Just wow.
Why are you so down on the OP for her saying that? I never let my kids behave like that, so they dont. Its not hard FFS! Assuming no SEN etc then it really isnt difficult to teach children to know how to behave in certain situations. My can create merry hell at times, but they know that sometimes they have to suck it up. We actually have "at home rules" and "out rules", they have been known to ask "is this "out rules" Mummy?" when we were going to friends where it could feasibly be either. I tend to say "Its "out rules" unless I tell you otherwise!"
If you think the OP will never be able to control her childrens behaviour and will just have to accept that they will behave like the children in her first post, I suspect your issue is closer to home. You may want to stop projecting and consider why you feel that is such an impossible dream.
Oh right. I'm down on her because I'm disagreeing again? Because we've ALL said that at some point. We've ALL discovered its rather hard to do 'control' the 'Monsters' as OP puts them.
And I know it "isn't hard ffs!".
Spot on bogey and pixel
Not sure why this argument is still going on.
I'd like to thank you OP for posting this thread, as I have found it truly helpful. I don't have children and didn't realise before this evening that this meant that I may never ever be even slightly annoyed by the behaviour of someone else's kids. I genuinely did not realise that whether I had procreated or not was relevant to me being allowed to form an opinion on this topic!
Too right Bogeyface. I don't think people should be judging the OP by their own
lax standards. Why assume that OP will not be able to teach her dcs manners just because other people are unable to do so with theirs? At least she intends to try, it seems that too many people have given up.
YY Bogey, mine can be like savages at home sometimes, but they are amazing when we are out - they know the rules and have their boundaries.
(I have been called Victorian mum by one of my friends though!)
"You might want to stop projecting". Seriously. What the hell? There is no issue closer to home! Dear god I decided to disagree with someone on AIBU! How very dare I? For the gazillionth time I've never ONCE said that the Parents are in the right so keep your silly PAs to yourself.
MN really, really, REALLY needs a 'RTFT' button or klaxon
Yeh Pixel becaue obviously none of the other Parents Try do they?
I agree. I would take iPad and headphones etc with and tell my children no noise before 9am. Very selfish making a noise in public space.
HappyCliffmas please point me to ANYWHERE on this thread where ANYONE has insinuated that.
Yanbu Op and sorry to hear you didn't get the restful break you hoped for
Not if they are just shrugging their shoulders and saying 'children will be children' at the suggestion of a bit of discipline, no, then obviously they are not 'trying' at all.
Yes Monica we can. I admit my then 15 month old was clapping and singing and shouting to her brother when he was trying to say his lines. Other people found it cute, some found it annoying, I found it intensely embarrassing. I managed to shush her with some snacks and a drink but occasionally she still got carried away and did more noisy singing. I kept apologising but was penned in and tryingvto leave would have caused dd to either have a tantrum or just create another son g and dance. The time crept by so slowly and those 45 minutes were the longest of my life. On the way out I overheard a heavily pregnant woman sniping about me and dd and how her ds never behaved so noisily. Rather than kick-off (lets face it I'm holding my hands up here, she was noisy but by no means the only one) I apologised profusely and she red facedly told me not to worry about it. (No matter what the circumstances it is always fun to catch someone bitching about you when they have nowhere to go with it ) Anyway guess whose twins were creating a big fuss when watching their brothers harvest festival play a few weeks back? My first two kids were bloody angels and behaved beautifully everywhere. When pg with dd2 I never imagined i was cooking up one of those kids I rolled my eyes about when my first two were sat quietly while other kids ran around pissing everyone off. Shes not too bad now shes in reception but she definitely was sent to me to embarrass me into not producing anymore.
Not ALL parents are like that Pixel. The OP got slack for her folowing comments not for her original one.
Earplugs for the sleepers and colouring books and DVD players and tablets for the parents of travelling kids, if mine were bored in a hotel id take them for a run in the woods or to a nearby attraction, there are plenty of things to do all over the uk
My husband would go crazy if our kids were noisy.
Sounds lie these paarents were selfish kicking there kids out in corridors to play.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
No one said they were all like that. This thread is about being annoyed with people who are like that. There are posters defending the selfish hotel people who obviously think it's acceptable behaviour because you know, all kids behave atrociously and there's nothing a parent can do about it, and good intentions are just naivety .
Sounds like the problem was that the parents chucked them out of the room so that they could have a lie-in! That is incredibly inconsiderate as they were bound to them disturb others. They should have got up with them and supervised them, or done something to keep them quiet-ish in the room until breakfast time (like put the telly on).
No they aren't. No one in this thread is defending the Hotel. In fact the only person that did was the OP. Who said they did all they could have physically done. Good intentions aren't naivety,
deluded ones that you're child is never going to act up ARE.
I actually don't give a stuff about the school performances tbh, other than the annoying parents who stand in my way and hold their bloody ipads up in the air so I have to watch through an ipad too. grrr.
Mim78 I agree. Although some posters appear to be on A different page.
Pixel makes the point about why I was so cross. How can you defend the indefensible? And yes, if you say that the OP will soon learn, that she should not say she will control her childrens behaviour when appropriate as it is not possible IS projection. And no Miss I wasnt being PA, I was stating that I believe you are projecting your own parenting issues onto someone else.
Just because they cant or wont control their childrens behaviour doesnt mean that a) I shouldnt expect them to and b) be pissed off that they are disturbing me.
Lets face it, a hotel weekend away is not cheap and the OP said this was a posh one. Who can afford that these days without it being a treat, as it was for the OP? Why should that be spoilt because someone thinks that their
shag lie in is more important than anyone elses?
What always kills me about things like this is that you just know that these would be the people who would kick off in no small way if they had got a babysitter, gone alone and someone elses child was being noisy, probably less noisy than their own children!
Oh god yes! Bloody annoying. Parents wave at them too.
"No miss I wasn't being PA I was stating that you was projecting your own parenting issues onto someone else". So because I have disagreed with an OP who I have agreed with numerous times over that the Parents in question were unreasonable but went on to say her following comments were questionable. As did many other posters. Cold and Chinese to name a few. You have managed to deduce I must have parenting issues. Could you be any more insulting? But it wasnt a PA. Okay then.
* No one in this thread is defending the Hotel.* Sorry I worded that badly, by hotel people I meant the people in the hotel, as in the parents of the unruly children. My fault.
I agree with Bogey and Pixel.
I have managed to take my children to restaurants, hotels, theatre, concerts, etc without them acting up. I have had strangers come-up to me and comment on how well behaved they are.
It is lazy parenting to chuck children out into a corridor when other people are sleeping. If children are fighting, messing about, misbehaving at a particularly early hour in the morning, then the parents should do something, wether that be take them to breakfast, give them something to do or take them for a walk. They shouldn't just ignore them, walls are paper thin, some consideration should be given to the other guests in the hotel.
I bet all the people who are saying that they can't control their kids, keep them quiet etc would soon have something to say if they were all woken by a group of teens/twenty-somethings coming back from a night out!
Chinese?! Oops. Predictive text. Meant Chunder actually.
I could be more insulting but I wont as that was not my intention.
You implied that the OP was on a hiding to nothing by saying that she would not let her children behave that way. You said "arf!" thereby implying it was laughable. I disagree and suggested that if you think that a parent saying that they will not allow their children to behave in such a way as to seriously annoy and disturb other is laughable, then the issue is with you not her.
You seem to think that just because the OP has not had her first child that she knows nothing and "has it all to come" as my grandma would say. The MN line to anyone who has an issue with a childs behaviour without having a child themselves is "Oh just you wait!". I have had this said to me on here when the poster thought I was childless. Never posted to me again after I told her that I have 6, funny that.....
IamInvisible we all think the parents in question were lazy
fuckwits who could have done more and not thrown them out into a communal corridor.
I did wonder what the "Chinese" meant, I thought I had missed a Tiger Parent comment
We could go on all night like this. Can we make friends and agree to disagree?
I could be more insulting please give it your best shot. Obviously deducing someone has parenting issues because they dared to disagree with the OP amongst MANY things that she said with attitude isn't fucking harsh enough.
I can remember staying in a hotel owned and run by two brothers and their wives. They had about six young kids between them, who were up every morning at six am running and jumping along the corridor above the guest bedrooms. When we went down to breakfast other guests were complaining...and the owners were saying they were upset by all the complaints!!! I guess they didn't get many repeat customers!!
Hey op, things could have been worse. Let me tell you a story.
When we went to Disneyland Paris a few years back we were in a family room. There was an interconnecting door to another family room next door with a turnable lock on our side (the connecting room also had a door on their side which could be locked).
One morning, 3 year old ds woke up early and decided to explore. He noticed the interesting looking door, unlocked and opened it and to his delight found another door on the other side (I think he thought he was in Narnia). To his further delight he discovered that the second door had been left unlocked by the
idiots people on the other side, so opened it and went in.
I was sound asleep. Dh however, came to just in time to see ds disappearing through said door, jumped out of bed and ran after him. Ds had gone right into the room (which was the main bedroom) to the window and just as dh reached him and grabbed him, a woman came into the room from the bathroom. All SHE saw was a 6ft 5in strange man standing in her bedroom in PJs, carrying a child who she mistook for her own 4 year old ds. She started screaming, her dh came running in from the bathroom and started shouting, our ds started screaming, as did her ds who was actually in his bed sound asleep and was woken by the noise.
By the time I woke and ran nextdoor, dh was frantically explaining and the woman was sitting on the end of the bed half hysterical and hyperventilating while the two kids were still screaming the place down from the fright they'd had.
Once all had calmed down they failed to see any funny side and called the hotel manager to try and get us evicted from the hotel (they failed and were told to keep their own door locked). After that I had to make sure I lodged a chair up against the door for the rest of the stay.
Anyway, the moral of the story being that kids can do a lot worse that make a bit of noise. At least they stayed on their side of the door in your situation. Small mercies and all that.
Dirty I shouldnt laugh but....
I can totally see why the woman was in a state, I would be too! You do jump to conclusions, thats "fight or flight" in action. But afterwards it would have been a case of "kids eh?!" and we would probably have had a drink together in the bar that night!
DirtyDancing: couldn't help but laugh, it's like something out of fawlty towers! Shame they had no sense of humour once the shock wore off though, unsure as to why they'd want you evicted?
MinesAPintOfTea if that happens to us we will leave
You won't! Because you have paid money to use those facilities like any one else. Your children will not be perfect, I guarantee they WILL piss some off at some point.
children shoved out into the corridor to play while their parents get jiggy/sleep are noisy brats
The kids are doing what comes naturally, I don't think it is fair to label them brats just because their parents aren't bothering to check their behaviour. If anything the parents are the brats.
Dirty that's AWFUL!!!
Glad you find it amusing bogeyface. No I'm not about to make friends over something you said which had fuck all to do with anything and yes it was a PA. Plenty of people made the same comment. Do you all think they have parenting issues too? I could have deduced the same thing from your refusal to take your DCs to posh places. I didn't. Because I'm not a cunt but there you are.
differentnameforthis exactly. Its Bullshit when people say they will leave. No they won't. I've been in situations where DCs have had enough. Want to leave do kid things. Why? Because like you've said they've already paid for it. Reminds me of the lady that took her Ds to a softplay party. He was mean to all the other DCs including the Birthday Girl and all the other people who happened to be in the same vicinity as him at the time. His Mum kept saying "one more time and we will leave" he did it another 7 or 8 times and she still never left and carried through with the threat.
dirty that's funny. Oh I can imagine their faces! different I wouldnt bother on this thread. Any other thread on MN and you would get flamed for using the word brats/little shits etc. Apparently its okay here. Funniest thing about it is no one has disagreed with the OP about these parents in her OP.
What a miserable cow trying to get you evicted!
In terms of all the 'I'll do x when I have my child/just wait until you have your own child' comments.
My advice? Don't plan. You don't know.
With ds2 I am praised for being a perfect parent. With ds1 I was praised for being a perfect parent until he became severely autistic & spent many years pretty feral. Now he's much better but people suck lemons when he breathes. Ds3 depends - a stubborn little nightmare with us, perfect Peter when we're not there.
Your child might embarrass you or they may shine glory your way. It will have a bit, but not everything to do with how you patent/react.
We stayed in a travelodge this summer. DH had the easy room (ds2 &3) I had ds1. He soon found that knocking on the wall made me slightly edgy so found this an amusing way to pass the time. Luckily I managed to look suitably bored by it that he did stop after a not unreasonable length of time. A baby on the other side woke him at 3am so he had a few experimental knocks on the wall again. Unfortunately the other side from the baby (or maybe fortunately as they would have thought we were knocking at him). He loves staying in hotels - my blood pressure can't cope with it too often. Oh and he turfed me out of the double so I had the kids bed (he is taller than me so fair enough I guess).
I think reasonable people try to limit their children's impact on others - but no parent gets it right 100% of the time. Of course the kids should not have been in the corridor but hopefully parents have learned.
saintltjimjams that's exactly what EVERYONE else has said and it was in reply to the OPs supernanny comment of "we'll act to curb tantrums". Along with the other comments that I'm not going to bother to mention for the 50th time as apparently they were first 'misunderstood' but now they are just 'misquoted' . None of which were either they were taken literally because they were meant that way. That's when she got the flack and the just you wait comments and not just off me neither.
When my DD was over excited and / or over tired, she would scream hysterically in the middle of the night for 10 - 15 minutes and eventually wake up and stop.
It happenened on a campsite a couple of times.
We could have avoided disturbing others by never going camping.
We choose to go camping - couldn't afford any other holiday.
Ah ds1 did wake up an entire campsite by waking up at 3am, screaming (didn't like the dark) & setting off a field if donkeys next to us. Then the low talking from every tent in the field started. We kept our head down the next day & bought solar garden lights
Sometimes when trying to curb a child I'm not sure what to do. The tapping was such a case. If I'd got cross ds1 would have done it more laughing hysterically. So I decided on the cross calm face, looking bored but unamused & relying on his natural tiredness to aid the people next door. Didn't consider the effect of a baby on the other side of us though
The only time we've been tutted at in a hotel was when ds1 kept getting up and down at the breakfast table (always with one of us following) tbh he could have been doing a lot worse so I just ignored the sour pusses. It should have been obvious that ds1 was disabled.
BMW6 you need to work on your comprehension skills.
OddFodd regardless of whether you are anyone else would query it, the point is that in a lot of threads with a similar comment about curbing tantrums, OP would have been flamed by now because of the SEN issue. No getting round that, and the fact is that nobody including you, OP or indeed Bogeyface has the slightest idea whether anyone in the family party had SEN anyway. So there are no 'surelys' about this, however much we might have invested in our white knighting.
A great post saintly.
I think it's just one of those things? Sometimes you might book into a fancy restaurant and be next to a couple of brats. Once I had to endure a flight to Miami next to a lite boy who kept sticking his fingers in my dinner and the baby cried and screamed the entire time. I'd have probably booked a spa type hotel or adults only personally if I wanted total relaxation. Worth putting in a complaint though, you may get refunded partially at least.
I was also one of these people (pre children) who had very big ideas about how they should behave in restaurants and in general and totally blamed the parents for any untoward behaviour. Then the child came along, despite reading all the books and being a fairly ok parent (I think?) I find myself running a dialogue through any meals out 'get out from under the table' 'shh' 'say thank you' don't climb up the chandelier' just wait a few years and see how your perfectly behaved, well controlled offspring turn out - good luck
If the DCs has SEN, are you advocating putting your children out in the corridor to disturb others? Course not.
Seems to me your backs up about some things the OP has said, but I don't think it's reasonable to defend anything the parents in the OP did on the grounds of the DC/s having SNS
Oh I see its your turn now chunderella here .
To all those who've told the OP "just wait till you have DCs", or that it is sometimes impossible to shut kids up:
There are plenty of places that specifically market themselves as child friendly, and there are also holiday rentals. Why is it not an option to take your DC to these places if you know they might ruin somebody else's stay? Anybody who doesn't want to have an expensive holiday ruined by other people's out of control DC would never book in to a hotel marketed at those with young children, and would have only themselves to blame if they didn't. If you've made the decision to have kids, why is it such a big ask to holiday in appropriate places?
On the few occasions that we've camped (not for a while and not since we had number 4), DH has taken the kids to the play park when they've literally just woken up (and you know how early kids wake up camping) to stop them disturbing other campers (just by them talking and normal stuff, I don't mean fighting or anything). Whilst I praise his thoughtfulness, I'm also kind of irritated that he does it, as the campers he's trying not to disturb, are generally the ones keeping me up all night with their late night drinking sessions and loud voices. But there you go. Sometimes, I find it hard to be tolerant.
However, I can't believe that someone kicked out their kids to play in the communal area. That really is lazy parenting. I can see why you are upset. Presumably, being a boutique hotel means that it was quite expensive. I'd complain again - as someone suggested, speak to someone higher up - you may get some kind of compensation, though I doubt it will really make up for a ruined trip.
'Just wait til you have DCs'?!
Cos as soon as you give birth you become a selfish twat so ineffectual that you are unable to control your own offspring, apparently.
Why is it not an option to take your DC to these places if you know they might ruin somebody else's stay?
I don't think parents actively book places knowing that their children might ruin the stay for others, you know.
When we travelled 12,000 miles to see family/friends recently, we stayed in all manor of places. For the most part my dds were very well behaved, but when we got back to base, the youngest was very unsettled. I did what I could to keep her calm, but not matter how hard you try sometimes, you just can't do it & you can't please everyone.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't have put her in any communal areas to mess about, but op & others on this thread need to realise that kids make noise, no matter how hard their parents try to quiet them.
You could say, 'if you get easily disturbed by noise in public places, don't go to public places'
I read in the what to expect book when I was pg, to consider the fact that if you take your baby out to dinner with you, someone on the table next to you might have spent ££s getting a babysitter to have that one night of peace together, so might not appreciate listening to someone else's baby instead.
That's the point isn't it - not that it's against the law to have a crying baby, noisy child or whatever, just that if you do you should take other people's feelings into consideration. If you are clearly not (and in this case the parents seemed to find their feelings more important than everyone else's, by putting the kids out to play on the landing (wtf, btw!)) then you shouldn't be very surprised if other people start getting a bit cross. Equally if it becomes apparent that there is a reason why the noise is happening, the onlookers might be appreciative of that.
Just basic courtesy on all sides is what's needed I think. I agree with rpeg though - you can make life easier for yourself.
Even at Butlins I wouldn't let DS scream and shout and certainly wouldn't let him play loudly in stairwells/corridors.
Having children does not mean you suddenly lose all sense of what reasonable behaviour is
The children didn't ruin the OP's stay. The selfish parents who weren't doing any parenting did.
Yes, kids make noise. OP stated further down the thread that she hasn't any problem with a normal level of noise. But putting children into a public area unsupervised and unchecked at 7am is not on at all.
There is a difference between being easily disturbed by noise and not wanting a holiday you've spent all year saving up for to be ruined by badly behaved kids. Obviously it's not always possible, but there really are so many hotels (in this country at least) that specifically market themselves at people with young families that I don't understand why it happens so often that you're at a predominantly adult hotel, and are faced with one family where the parents pretend their children aren't rolling around the restaurant/running up and down stairs screaming/trampling flowers in the garden/etc. etc. Or even more annoyingly catch your eye and grin with an "aren't they cute" type look and continue to ignore...
I always act to curb tantrums if they are disturbing other people. It's not acceptable to sit idly by while your kid kicks off because "children have tantrums, what on earth are parents supposed to do about it?".
I could have written Op myself a few years ago....several times probably ....that's when I didn't have children. I am a mum now and would still write exactly the same and feel exactly the same. Op is not BU at all.
Talk to the manager, and insist on getting an upgrade weekend in lieu if she won't reimburse you for your disturbed weekend. You didn't get what you paid for and they didn't stop the noise, you had to keep ringing reception to complain.
Yanbu, OP, and I think posters should read your posts before they go on and on with their "just you wait" witchy comments.
You sound like your head is screwed on right to me.
Fwiw I always play the elf and safety card, when complaining, as being sued is any hotels/ institutions nightmare.
the children were on the landing outside her room
Whilst I appreciate many comments are now about how noisy children can be in general and how some children with special needs can be noisier than others. I think this is unfair on the OP.
There is nothing to suggest that these two children had any special needs.
They weren't just being noisy in the hotel room, they were out on the landing, outside the OP's room at 7am having an actual fight with each other.
I think this thread is in danger of turning (if it hasn't done so already) into one of those debates over whether children are brats or not and what if they had special needs and you don't know/can't tell.
Yes there are some disapproving, impatient and downright nasty adults (some of whom are parents themselves) who genuinely believe that children should be neither seen nor heard and who make it their mission to convey their disapproval at every given opportunity, making those stressed parents feel even more stressed and inferior. Those are the type of people who should book adults only hotels and go on adult only holidays because any child, no matter how quiet, would disturb their peace by its mere presence and any parent, no matter how considerate, would be reduced to tears by these obnoxious adults.
The OP does not come across as one of these adults. She sounds like a normal, pregnant mother who tried to escape the stresses of life and reconnect with her partner and was instead forced to endure the bad behaviour of some inconsiderate parents who thought they would share their bad parenting skills with the rest of the hotel.
The hotel should have either moved the family or moved the OP. In fact they should have given her an upgrade really and if they couldn't move her, they should have offered a refund. Badly behaved guests, whether they are parents or drunks, are the responsibility of the hotel. You have paid for a service and part of that hotel service is ensuring the happiness and comfort of the guests. This was not fulfilled and resulted in the OP paying quite a lot of money and having a bad time in return.
I'm with you OP.
This is the reason we didn't take our DC to hotels until they were old enough to understand that consideration for other people was important.
If you are in public, families need to understand that they can't behave as they might at home, but need to think of others too. This doesn't mean being seen but not heard, but does involve common courtesy.
Nobody said It did lilyaldrin.
Rpeg OP never said it was anything other. Besides that is not why people replied 'just you wait' to OP.
There can be nothing nicer than experienced parents offering support to a pregnant woman. How heartening to see that in action on this thread.
Chunderella - in this case, SN is irrelevant, because it was the behaviour of the parents that was unacceptable - they turfed their children out into the communal area/stairwell, where they would annoy other hotel guests, presumably so they themselves were not disturbed, and could have the lie-in that they denied to the OP.
Would that have been acceptable behaviour if the children had had special needs? Or if they were neuro-typical? Was it good parenting - or good manners - either way?
But there is the v obviously fact that this was not something that could happen to anyone and pare nts had no control over. They turfed their kids out into the corridor at 7am! Presumably so they could sleep. That is staggeringly selfish. Generally kids making some noise- at meals and around the place during the day can't be avoided unless adultsonly but this particular action is selfish.
My whole point here isn't to argue that children shouldn't be energetic or noisy, it's to say that if you can't keep them quiet, for whatever reason, you shouldn't bring them with you. Stay at home until they're older or teach them better manners.
Again, it comes down to the fact that we plan not to take them anywhere that we can't be sure is child appropriate until we know they can be trusted, and that we'll act to curb tantrums, not leave them to their own devices.
And we get the last laugh - we just had to grit our teeth and bear it for two nights. You have to take your children home and live with
the monsters you've created them!
Rpeg the comments above by the OP is why other posters gave her the 'just you wait' comments. Everyone agrees the parents behaviour in this case was disrespectful.
But it's irrelevant. I doubt the OP would turf her future children out into a corridor and have them make a nuisance of themselves.
that isn't what she was saying YouTheCat though is it? We all agreed with her and many posters told her to complain to the hotel. She only got tetchy once someone started suggesting why they might be on there. no one is saying it is right and it is downright disrespectful to the other guests to shove them out in the corridor but calling children monsters or brats on any other thread would earn you a pasting.
MissPixie - I do not think that the OPs comments justified the smug responses she got. You know what, in the early days of motherhood I used to come onto Mumsnet and would sometimes have similar rants. I was never rounded on like posters are now.
This poor woman is pregnant. She is tired and grumpy. She has just paid for a noisy and disruptive weekend. She is hardly in the best of moods but you still feel that the best response to that is to rub your hands in glee about the monsters she'll be producing herself.
You can't say anything now without the professionally offended breathing down your neck can you?
It is fair to say that in this instance, these two children were let down badly by their parents. There is nothing to say they had special needs. They were being bloody disruptive and the OP was well within her rights to have a bloody moan about it - fuck knows I would have! It's not that difficult to do what the OP said; to bring up children with manners and consideration for others. Most of us manage it. I think the OP will manage it too.
I call them monsters and brats all the time. Shoot me.
She did qualify 'monsters' with 'you've created' - children are a product of their upbringing
or lack of it .
Tbh, reading some of the posts prior to that one, I can see why the OP was getting pissed off.
Well have a go at the other 'smug' posters who actually said 'just you wait' then. Because I didn't. I jokingly saiD good luck with that to her. So maybe pick on the right person before jumping down the wrong posters neck.
What the fuck Cliff? Read it again! That's what the OP Said about the monsters comment. Not me!
You are the one on the thread justifying your response.
And I didn't say that you called them monsters, I said that I call children brats and monsters on a regular basis. All the time in fact. Terrible isn't it?
Give the woman a break. See the irony here. You made a comment along with others about her waiting until she had her own kids to deal with. Now perhaps you can see that your comment along with the other comments may have been misjudged and harsh.
The OP was also driven to impatience and she posted stuff about them being brats and monsters (which they were) and how her children would be taught manners. All quite true but perhaps she too, because of earlier responses, tiredness and being pissed off she didn't put it quite the way she wanted to.
So you criticised her in the same way that you now feel you are being criticised yourself.
I get that she was really pissed off, I think that comes across in her posts and I think it bloody minded and mean of people to judge her for that. She's pregnant ffs and probably not in the best of moods.
How exactly am I jumping down your neck?
I'm just stating a contrary point of view.
She is hardly in the best of moods but your best response is to that is to rub your hands in glee at the monsters she will be reproducing. < yes you bloody did And I'm not 'justifying MY response'. I'm explaining why she got MANY responses from a handful of other posters.
That wasn't aimed at you YouTheCat that was aimed at cliff who is cooking up things I never said.
" I jokingly saiD good luck with that to her."
"Besides that is not why people replied 'just you wait' to OP."
You are justifying their responses and admitted that you joined in with a sarcastic comment of your own.
I think this thread is winding you up far too much. The OP has long gone. We all agree that the parents of those children were out of order and that generally, in that situation, the OP was not being unreasonable.
We can all sympathise with her situation and her response. I don't really think there is anything more to say?
To be honest, snottiness with the OP was unnecessary from the perspective that not all parents DO end up with badly behaved kids who don't know how to behave in public. Obviously SN etc. aside, some parents do manage to control their children pretty much all the time, from an early age. Maybe the OP will regret being judgemental, maybe she won't...
So are you saying you never said it now then Cliff? Rightyoh then.
I haven't read all 12 pages of the thread, but I don't think you're being unreasonable OP. I would keep calling the reception to complain at any noise that lasts longer than 5 minutes and if they don't speak with the family and resolve the problem, I think the hotel should offer you some sort of goodwill gesture e.g. a free nights stay or something for the disruption you've had.
I don't think it's on to let your children play in hotel corridors. I don't mind the odd noises here and there, but this is just rude and inconsiderate to other people.
Sorry, what am I saying that I never said? You will have to be clearer on that point as I'm afraid you've lost me.
I don't think OP was being judgemental. I think she was at her wits end and then someone threw in the special needs card, which was completely inappropriate on this thread.
People started getting massively arsy on this thread about this time yesterday.
I was torn between being amused and perplexed at all the hissing so I decided to go out for the evening and have loads of wine.
I can thoroughly recommend it. ( Just don't play in stairwells on the way home)
Pag Ok then , right you are.
How about playing Daleks with the wheelie bins ?
Don't worry OP, once you've had the baby, and you dare to think other people's parenting is lazy or inconsiderate, there will be some saying:
"What do you know, you only have a PFB/you only have one child/you only have a toddler/you only have a Primary school age child etc etc...."
Ive already explained it Cliff. Im not going to repeatedly
bang my head against the wall explain the same point over again. I have a life to live and stairwells to play on
Daleks with wheelie bins sounds magnificent. I have Nerf guns..
I've got 3 wheelie bins and a catapult and a plunger.
What's SN got to do with anything? Surely if they chucked children with SN out into the corridor they are even worse parents than we previously thought .
BAM BAM BAM <ducks behind recycling box (big)>
Before I was a parent I hoped that I would act to curb tantrums. Now that I am a parent, I do act to curb tantrums, as does every other parent friend of mine. I read that as meaning that OP would try to distract/reason with/remove DC from a situation, or even ignore if that was the best tactic, but that whatever she did would be done with the intent of limiting the tantrum and its effect on others.
OP you were not being smug. You rightly have an idea of how you would like to parent and although you seem aware that kids will tantrum/be noisy/embarrass you in public places, you are already thinking about how to encourage good behaviour and an idea of how to behave in social situations, which I think will stand you in good stead to be a pretty great parent.
Good luck with everything, enjoy your new baby!
When HomeIs said she would 'act to curb tantrums' - I didn't read that as her saying that she believes she will always succeed in curbing those tantrums - but that she WILL be trying. I see nothing arrogant or ignorant about that.
Pagwatch, Feeling Festive and You the Cat
We could do with two big plungers to stick on front and flashing lights , great fun. Which nice quiet posh hotel should we
attack book in to?
Just had horrible thought though - Daleks couldn't climb stairs if l remember rightly (or did they correct that) so we would have to take them up and down in the lift.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
OMG. Daleks can hover upstairs?
Thanks , that'll be me waking up screaming tonight
Yes, Daleks now come with a hover function.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Cab I have a darlek with a hoover function please?
That would be better - they could do the stairs. I hate hoovering the stairs
or anything .
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
YANBU to expect to not be woken up by children being sent out to play on the hotel landing unsupervised - the parents are lazy and inconsiderate.
YABU for calling them brats.
Is this an official Dr Who Dalek deterrent then ?
" shove a lemon up their sink plunger "
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
I am going to adopt that as my default threat to anyone who pisses me off from now on.
'Stop that or I'll shove a lemon up yer sink plunger'
I imagine this will be their reaction >
Not sure how l will explain it though if queried
My apologies that I disappeared completely from this thread - I was sitting back and watching with interest and have learnt various things from this post (such as what to call POs!).
I'm glad that so many people seem to think that the children shouldn't have been turfed out and thank you, those of you who were kind enough to say that you didn't think IWBU. And also for those of you that thought it was a good idea to intend to bring up children with some manners. For what it's worth, I will try to bring my children up to be polite and respectful. And if they're being noisy I'll take the advice of some posters here and take them out for a walk or distract them (note the use of the word try in all this) because nothing is worse than a badly-behaved child than one with parents making no attempt to stop it. But I can guarantee I'll never just shove them outside where they won't bother me but will bother other people.
I have to say, this thread has made me love MN - thank you all! Some of you were very kind - and it did make me feel better about the weekend to know that I wasn't just being a pregnant grouch!
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