To think the UK public have appalling manners on trains

(70 Posts)
parasaurolophus Sat 07-Dec-13 16:46:09

I am standing on a train while my children sit on the floor at my feet. Trains from euston delayed or cancelled due to awful tragedy.

We have seats reserved on this train that is running, but of course in euston it is a race to the train. Nearly every seat is filled with healthy twenty somethings, many of whom refused to move for children with reservations.

Children are swaying everywhere and these assholes stole their seats because they run faster.

I am mostly angry at cheapskate husband who wouldn't agree to hotel room

GoofyIsACow Sat 07-Dec-13 16:48:07

Find your reserved seat and ask them to move, how long are you going to be on the train?

mirry2 Sat 07-Dec-13 16:49:08

The reserved seats usually have a ticket on them, don't they? What did the people say when you asked them to move? I've never heard of this but I rarely travel by train so maybe it's a common occurrence. I hope not.

parasaurolophus Sat 07-Dec-13 16:49:45

They refused. Point blank refused. We are too far away now on crowded car.

hiddenhome Sat 07-Dec-13 16:51:03

Sit on their knees?

500internalerror Sat 07-Dec-13 16:51:41

If you have reserved seats, then ask for them. Ask them to explain why they didnt reserve their own, if they need to sit. If they have a medical condition fair enough - explain thus in a loud voice whilst saying you don't expect their medical history in public. If you kids are small, suggest a compromise by getting them to share a seat, because you are kind (er than the others).

CalamitouslyWrong Sat 07-Dec-13 16:52:09

You should have told the train guard that they were in your seats and wouldn't move. The train staff are usually really helpful in that way.

youbethemummylion Sat 07-Dec-13 16:52:13

Ask the people in your seats to move if they wont find the conductor who will tell them to move. People often sit in the reserved seat as they are only reserved for part of journey or on off chance the people dont turn up. Have you actually told them they are your seats?

500internalerror Sat 07-Dec-13 16:53:33

I terestingly, the only time his hhappened to me & the kids was with another woman & kids, with her bags on all the seats confused

youbethemummylion Sat 07-Dec-13 16:54:35

Ah x post tell the conductor or drum up support from other passengers nearby. Most adults I know would not tolerate that from other people and would tell those in your seats to do one!

NigellaLaw5on Sat 07-Dec-13 17:06:37

Dh always says that the worst part of train driving is the bloody passengers.

WooWooOwl Sat 07-Dec-13 17:10:39

Do you have to pay more for reserving seats?

chateauferret Sat 07-Dec-13 17:41:27

The conductor should be enforcing reservations and occupying someone else's reserved seat is a breach of the Conditions of Carriage for which one could be ejected.

Snotty letter to the TOC.

FeckOffCupofMulledWine Sat 07-Dec-13 17:47:05

Put the kids on their laps.

How fucking rude of them.

I agree, the conductor should be enforcing it and IME they usually do.

I'd always offer to stand on a crowded train for very little ones anyway, it's much harder for them to cope with the swaying/crowding.

grumpyoldbat Sat 07-Dec-13 17:52:41

People don't have manners full stop. They rarely think of others, the "I'm alright jack" attitude rules. If they do think of others it's mostly in terms of how shit they can make others feel to get their kicks.

I agree with others OP complain.

YoungBritishPissArtist Sat 07-Dec-13 17:58:38

Find the train manager and get them out of your seats!

I've found someone in my reserved seat before and they've always moved. I can't believe these shits won't angry

Rosa Sat 07-Dec-13 18:02:34

Don't accept that .. You reserved the seats therefore they are yours . I would create a stink.

futuredad Sat 07-Dec-13 18:10:28

If a number of trains have been cancelled/delayed it's often the case that reservations are not applied as strictly as they normally would be. After all, it could just as easily be the case that the people in "your seats" had previously reserved "their seats" on one of the cancelled trains.

I remember as a young child having to spend a couple of hours sat on one of the luggage racks at the end of the carriage because the train was crowded due to strikes. I didn't see not having a seat as a hardship, but actually found the whole journey more of an adventure (I was clearly an easily pleased 7-year old!!!!).

BackforGood Sat 07-Dec-13 18:17:55

YABU to think "the UK public" have appalling manners on trains - not my experience at all, just based on the fact you have met some individuals who may have appalling manners.

Golddigger Sat 07-Dec-13 18:25:50

WooWoo. No, not that I know of.
I think you can reserve up to two hours before you travel?
Am happy to be corrected though.

I have only once had a problem with reserved seats [dont travel by train regularly].
The man in the seat was indeed sitting in the correct seat, and going to the correct place. Trouble was, he had booked the train behind us!

unlucky83 Sat 07-Dec-13 18:30:36

I've had this - two dcs (5 and 11 at the time) reserved seats with a table for a 3 hr journey -got on the crowded train to find four 20ish yr old (Eastern European I think) girls sat in our seats...
I said these are our seats, we have reserved them and they said 'we are getting off at the next stop' (15 mins away) and pointed to three seats scattered around the carriage (2 were next to someone in a two seat, one was on a table of four). I know (esp youngest) DCs wouldn't be happy sitting next to strangers even for 15 mins...so I stood there and said we need our seats, they said there are other seats - I stood my ground and said that's handy for you...took them more or less the whole 15 mins to move but they did ...with much grumbling in their own language...
Afterwards I did wonder if I was being unreasonable -but I don't think I was hmm
I think you need to go and stand over them and refuse to move ...(and hope when they have DCs of their own will appreciate why you had reserved and needed seats!)

Vivacia Sat 07-Dec-13 18:32:59

Are you sure the reservations haven't been dis-applied (as suggested above)? This is the only situation I've known people not to move for a reservation.

I travel on trains a fair bit and have always found most people incredibly polite and helpful, especially during difficult times.

Find train guard tout suite. Did they give you a reason for their god awfulness?

catgirl1976 Sat 07-Dec-13 18:35:58

Very often if there are large delays they remove the reservation system altogether and you have no right to your reserved seats whatsoever sad

But only a total fucker would refuse to give up their seat for a child (assuming they were able to stand yadda yadda

Trills Sat 07-Dec-13 18:36:23

YABU to say this about "the UK public".

The majority of people I encounter on trains could not be described as having "appalling manners".

unlucky83 Sat 07-Dec-13 18:36:25

(Did mean to say that they did understand me - the fact they were foreign was irrelevant - except I didn't know what they were saying about me - probably wasn't very polite!!! - but honestly don't think I would have cared whatever they said!)

But only a total fucker would refuse to give up their seat for a child

Very recent attitude. As a child I was always told to stand to make way for an adult - reservation or no reservation. And I did have a disability but that made no difference.

catgirl1976 Sat 07-Dec-13 18:45:49

On a crowded train, young children are much more susceptible to falling as the train swerves and to getting squished by adults swaying about

Hence I think an able-to-stand adult should give up their seat on a long journey where there are crowds and people standing in the aisles.

On a crowded train, young children are much more susceptible to falling as the train swerves and to getting squished by adults swaying about

Sure, but then I would have been made to sit on a parent's knee, which doesn't apply in this case since poor OP can't get a seat! OP has stated her kids are sitting at her feet so the chances of them being injured by falling when the train swerves are slim.

All academic though since the OP per booked her seats and therefore it should be HER decision re seating arrangements for the kids and not for ignorant oiks to do so. Definitely find the train guard and hope he embarrasses them all "this train ain't moving until you do" style. grin

DoYouLikeMyBaubles Sat 07-Dec-13 19:28:05

I got on a train for the first time in ages yesterday, Virgin one.

Rammed. A man was sat in the aisle seat, with his primark bag taking up the seat next to him. I asked him could he schooch up and he said no.

I was that shocked it took me a second to put on my 'dont fuck about with me' faced.

He moved it in the end, with much huffing and puffing.

reelingaroundthechristmastree Sat 07-Dec-13 19:35:03

Train manager will make them move.

CalamitouslyWrong Sat 07-Dec-13 19:38:59

Once when the train was absolutely packed and some fuckers sat in our seats the train manager let us sit in first class instead. Was much better. grin

reelingaroundthechristmastree Sat 07-Dec-13 19:43:35

A woman sat in front of me recently on a long journey, she had filled up the seat next to her with stuff, loads of people were standing.
Made me angry but I had a seat and DD said I had to STFU about it.

I almost wished I hadn't had a seat so I could have made her move her fucking stuff.
There was plenty of overhead space, Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr

reelingaroundthechristmastree Sat 07-Dec-13 19:44:34

How hard faced do you have to be to just sit there and pretend not to notice hmm

AchyFox Sat 07-Dec-13 20:04:09

Does the train not have reservation labels ?

Can and does happen.

TattyDevine Sat 07-Dec-13 20:38:22

Reserved seats - you are entitled to have them moved, sometimes easier said than done on a crowded train.

To ease your angst, allow me to share my pet hates that I endured through many years of commuting

Men with broadsheet newspapers or bollocks so large they had to spread their legs or arms to the width of 2-3 seats

Men (well, women if they did but never had one do this) who would burp "politely" you'd hear then burp, mouth closed, hand over mouth) who would then "release" the burp, and puff it across to the poor person opposite (me). Usually smelt of salami, beer, or beer and salami. Or both. Lol.

People who would lean to the side to fart silently, and you'd think, why are you leaning to the side, hell, perhaps they have had a stroke or heart attack, then the fart smell would hit you.

People with long legs - shame for them, really I'm not bitter, but do you have to physically kick my little feet out of your way so you can stretch your legs in between mine? Seriously?

The Rucksack. Grateful you are willing to stand, not that you had a choice, but if you whip around to change direction, please be aware that the 30kg of luggage you hold on your back has broken my nose and given me concussion. No, its fine really, just be aware.

Phone conversations. If you must, put them on speaker, because it is incredibly frustrating when you exclaim "NO! SHARUUUP! YOU DIDN'T! FAAARK! REALLY?" and not know exactly what they did or didn't do.

Yawning. Yes, commuting is boring. Do not puff your yawn my way. If you must, one word that springs to mind is floss. More than once a week, please.

Snoring and snorting - nuff said.

That might do for now.

Wishfulmakeupping Sat 07-Dec-13 20:41:51

This happened to me once they refused to move out of my reversed seat I got the conductor involved who bumped us up to first class which was nice but I think they should have been made to move

TattyDevine Sat 07-Dec-13 20:44:39

Okay I'm on a roll now. Chapter two - intercity trains - the ones with tables.

Do not look at me like I am a madwoman when I ask you to rise to allow me to squeeze past and take the window seat. I am not going to mount the table and crawl doggie style into the vacant seat.

And then, when I get off at the first stop when you are getting off at the last, do not look at me as if daft if I ask you once again to vacate your seat and allow me past. If you are going "all the way", why not just take the window seat?

20 minutes till the first stop, and everyone is already queuing to get off and be off first. Why? You fought for that seat. Perhaps you refused women with children who had booked that seat from sitting there as per the OP. Why have you now vacated that seat to queue and block anyone else who needs out just so you can be 45th out the train?

Smoking carriage. No longer exists. But when it did, it was the only chuffing place you could get a seat. Why? Because smokers would get a seat in non smoking carriages, then walk to Coach B to have a fag, then return to their seat, because the poor dears couldn't stand the smell of the smoke. Nasty, nasty smoke. But they'd happily trail it through non smoking carriages.

The Bar.

Okay, scratch that, I have nothing bad to say about the bar.

TattyDevine Sat 07-Dec-13 20:48:11

Chapter 3. Mondays.

Everyone hates a Monday. But the worst thing about Mondays was the football manager wannabees analysing every bit of match strategy.

Because you really should have been a football manager, not a junior messenger for a stockbroking firm. Really, someone missed a trick there.

parasaurolophus Sat 07-Dec-13 21:19:48

The situation was most trains from Euston were cancelled. Ours was not, so when the train was announced the crowd ran for the train just to get out of Euston.

The reservations were in effect, and we asked the people to move. They were young men in their 20s. They said no. DH asked them to move for the kids, we will give up our seats. They said no. I said in a loud voice "You should be ashamed of yourselves." They shrugged. There were hoards of people pushing in from behind us, so we couldn't stay to press it. No conductors anywhere, the aisles were packed.

It wasn't just us. All the familes were later to get to the train, because the little kids didn't run fastest. The seats were full of young, able bodied people who refused to move for the kids, who had reserved seats.

I should have taken photos for the Daily Mail. The kids and I could make sad faces. smile (that is a joke)

After an hour, we found seats for the rest of the ride home. The children are none the worse for the wear. My indignation has run its course. I now have wine and the world seems a better place.

80sbabe Sat 07-Dec-13 21:56:00

I know exactly where you are coming from - a couple of years ago my DS and DD visited their grandad for a few days and went by train. They were aged 16 and 8 at the time and were travelling between London and just outside Manchester.
They had reserved seats each way and on the way up it wasn't an issue but their seats and all others were full by the time they got on the train to come home.
DS had the seat reservation tickets - he asked the passengers in their seats to move and they refused. He then asked for help from the guard who told him that unless people moved voluntarily he couldn't make them.

They eventually got seats when the train reached Birmingham but had to stand or sit on the floor until then.
It made me sad that people would happily refuse an 8 year old her pre-booked seat and also made me wonder why the train companies allow bookings if they refuse to uphold them.
I did complain afterwards but got nowhere with it.

However I often travel on very busy trains with my other DS who is a wheelchair user and he normally is offered a space when he gets spotted.
If there are no spare seats when we get on though he always declines and says "No thanks I come with my own one" which does makes me smile grin

The reservations were in effect, and we asked the people to move. They were young men in their 20s. They said no. DH asked them to move for the kids, we will give up our seats. They said no. I said in a loud voice "You should be ashamed of yourselves." They shrugged.

I would have stood there and kept remonstrating with them until their ears melted.

scripsi Sat 07-Dec-13 22:23:52

I would have taken a photo of them in your seats (but I am having a spectacularly bad few days and have the rage). Did you pay to reserve them? IME there are rarely any conductors around.

K8Middleton Sat 07-Dec-13 22:29:07

I'd have laid down on the table just to show the selfish fuckers. But I am prone to train rage and making a scene.

I am furious for you op. What ill mannered men.

yabu about the UK public

CalamitouslyWrong Sat 07-Dec-13 22:33:43

You should have sat the children on the table and encouraged them to be utter pains in the arses.

K8Middleton Sat 07-Dec-13 22:34:33

Helpfully my children need no encouragement Calamitously wink

CalamitouslyWrong Sat 07-Dec-13 23:26:17

I don't think mine would either.

K8Middleton Sat 07-Dec-13 23:29:03

grin

WorraLiberty Sat 07-Dec-13 23:31:52

They were fucking rude. They should have moved if you reserved the seats.

However, you are fucking rude too with your sweeping thread title OP.

MomentForLife Sat 07-Dec-13 23:48:13

I'm in a really bad mood today and I'm furious for you OP. I can imagine the smug little arseholes faces as well, I've experienced it myself.

mcdonaldschickennuggets Sun 08-Dec-13 00:12:04

DD was on the train today with her friends and they were sitting in a group of 4 seats. As there was only 3 of them and the train wasn't crowded they all put their bags on the other seat. After 1 stop a load of French people got on the train and decided to sit across the aisle from DD and friends, about 5 mins in a French woman asked DD if she could move her bag so that her toddle could sit down on the seat. DD had no problem with this, until the lady asked if she could sit with her toddler on her lap. Again, this was not a problem. But them the woman told DD that her toddler didn't like sitting by herself (even though there was space for the mother to stand right next to the seat) and that DD would have to move so that she could sit down. Obviously DD moved but I don't see why she should have moved when this lady could've asked one of her friends to move or she could've moved into any one of the other can't seats in the carriage.

Some people are so rude on trains.

K8Middleton Sun 08-Dec-13 00:25:49

Your dd and her friends were rude. They should have moved their stuff as soon as more people got on than seats mcdonalds.

Really, there's no excuse for that unless the bags had a ticket.

MidniteScribbler Sun 08-Dec-13 07:07:09

I really can't get myself worked up about a couple of kids having to sit on the floor for the duration of a train journey.

Morgause Sun 08-Dec-13 07:21:31

There used to be signs on buses and trains saying that children travelled at a reduced rate providing they did not occupy a seat while adults were standing.

In this case I think the people should have given up the reserved seats - although they may have had reserved seats on the cancelled trains so felt they were entitled to sit down.

However, if people really think that children should get seats while adults stand then they should pay full fare for them. I wouldn't give up a (unreserved) seat so a child could sit. My DCs would be sat on our laps on trains if adults were standing, reserved seats or not.

paxtecum Sun 08-Dec-13 07:36:51

I'm with Morgause on this.
I don't understand why you think your DCs have such priority.
The people sittting in your reserved seats were BU.

But would you really have let you DCs sit on seats when there were elderly people without a seat?

YABU making sweeping statements about the UK public.

500internalerror Sun 08-Dec-13 08:31:23

K8, I don't think McDonald's dd was rude - there were other empty seats, & a different adult from the other group could've sat alone therefore allowing the toddler to remain with the group. If I was in a group of 3 at a table, I wouldn't expect anyone to need the fourth seat until the train was absolutely rammed.

limitedperiodonly Sun 08-Dec-13 08:56:13

But only a total fucker would refuse to give up their seat for a child

Very recent attitude

If my 90-year-old mother was reading this, she'd disagree with you pumpkinpositive. And as for the comment about half-fares...

Age does not bestow special privileges. Neither should money. It should be about need and common sense.

I'm not offended by the OP's title either. She was upset and angry.

OP, my friend was caught up in the same incident going to Birmingham. She was lucky - a guard moved her and lots of other people to first class because it was getting dangerously overcrowded. Shame you didn't meet him.

Morgause Sun 08-Dec-13 11:06:53

Only on mumsnet have I read/heard that adults should give up their seats for children. Ridiculous notion - great way to raise a generation of entitled youngsters.

"Need and common sense" says that adults get seats and parents put their children on their laps. Good manners means that children do not occupy seats when adults are standing. My 2 used to squash up into one seat so an adult could sit down. And as soon as they were old enough they would stand up for someone in need of a seat more than they were and they still do.

I wonder if the children growing up with parents who feel the DCs have priority on seats will ever think of giving up their seats when they become adults.

limitedperiodonly Sun 08-Dec-13 11:30:15

I wonder if the children growing up with parents who feel the DCs have priority on seats will ever think of giving up their seats when they become adults

Fear not. I grew up with such parents and I leap out of my seat for weaklings of all ages. If standing I'm that woman who says in a loud voice: 'Would anyone be kind enough to give this person a seat?' Normally it's not necessary.

On the Tube the signs ask you to give up a seat for someone less able to stand. That's common sense because there isn't an age restriction on wobbliness.

Of course you get children to squash up or sit on your knee - but within reason. I wouldn't expect someone with a gammy leg to pile a heavy toddler and her luggage on her lap just for my convenience. She was there first.

As it happens I've never come across anyone who doesn't do that, but maybe I'm luckier than you.

My tube line is popular on school trips and there's always an excited child who wants to bag a seat and jump up and down. Teachers always say: 'Sit in it or stand. Make your mind up.'

I would never dream of taking his seat if he wanted to sit in it though and if a teacher made him stand for me I'd refuse because I wouldn't think it was fair. If she wanted to offer me her own seat, I'd take it though.

I would expect him to give it up for someone less able to stand but would expect the same of all passengers regardless of age.

BTW Only on Mumsnet have I ever read the dread word 'entitled' used to describe behaviour I'd describe as failing to apologise for your existence on the planet.

candycoatedwaterdrops Sun 08-Dec-13 11:45:57

The OP reserved those seats. The only entitled ones are the adults who refused to move. A healthy able bodied adult is most likely more used to standing on a train than a child. It's horrible that a healthy adult would refuse to move out of someone else's reserved seat for a child who was swaying about the carriage.

MomentForLife Sun 08-Dec-13 15:54:46

FFS children over 5 pay for their seat on a train. Fair enough if no seat has been reserved put them on your knee, but if an able bodied adult is sitting in a childs seat that's ridiculous.

Hate all this talk of children being expected to stand up, they're not second class citizens! I would rather stand up myself if an elderly or disabled person needed a seat than make my DD stand up. Some children are also a bit big to be sitting on knees.

parasaurolophus Sun 08-Dec-13 16:36:55

My objection is about the race to the train at Euston in those circumstances, it favours fit adults. We had reserved the seats. I would not expect someone to give up their reserved seat for my children, but we paid for those seats. We don't deserve to lose them because a young child runs slowly in a crowd.

I conceded that all of the UK public does not have bad manners, and I apologise for that overgeneralisation. I was very cross when I wrote it and vented here. Thank you for listening. The young people on that train were selfish and poorly mannered.

I travelled from York to London yesterday with 2 reserved seats at a table. When we got on 2 girls were sat at the table with SO MUCH STUFF in our seats. They "didn't think anyone would be sat there", I coughed and flicked the reserved seats tickets, bullshit excuses!

unlucky83 Sun 08-Dec-13 19:56:22

If there were no other seats I would be prepared to let my DCs sit on my knee, squash together etc etc. (In fact I have done that - three of us on a two seat). I would expect my older DC to give up her (even reserved) seat for an older/infirm person etc...
But if there are other seats and we had reserved seats surely DCs shouldn't have to sit with strangers - or on my knee next to a stranger...squashing a stranger...
(Lovely) people have moved seats for me and my DCs when the seat reservations haven't worked and we have ended up with seats on two tables etc...
IME getting seats for the DCs is very important for the accompanying parent - I find the getting on/off trains with all the luggage extremely stressful...I usually get DCs sat down, then stow the luggage..having to argue over where they can sit is an extra stress I could do without...
(and agree Macdonald's DD was not rude - the toddler could have sat with the rest of the group)

MrsOakenshield Sun 08-Dec-13 20:07:30

it penalises elderly people far more than families, though you'd have to be an utter cunt not to give up your seat to the elderly person who has reserved it, and I should think everyone else in the carriage would say so too, loudly and clearly.

YANBU to be pissed off. YABU to think that because children are involved that has anything to do with it. And you don't know that all those people were able-bodied or generally fit and well.

Glad you've got wine, the world is always a better place then!

TheHeadlessLadyofCannock Sun 08-Dec-13 20:07:41

I don't think adults should give up seats for children per se (in fact, in an unreserved seats scenario I think it should be the other way round), but obviously anyone who hasn't booked the seat they're in should give it up for the person who has.

Write to the train company, OP, and ask why there weren't any visible staff on the train to deal with these problems when they must have known that a busy delayed train would be potentially chaotic.

OldRoan Sun 08-Dec-13 20:08:03

The scrum at Euston is horrific. A memorable occasion had 1 train cancelled, my train about to depart, and 2 trains arriving. The platforms were 3 consecutive numbers. They announced the platform for my train as the other 2 trains were opening their doors/getting to platform.

They had reserved carriages for people who had been bumped off an earlier train, so they were all penned at the front by the barriers, we (with tickets with reservations) were trying to get from concourse to platform and then crammed behind them. With the passengers from the arriving 2 trains all trying to cut across us.

I have mobility issues, but am fine with enough time. I am always tempted to book transport at euston though, because I find it stressful and difficult. In contrast, Victoria station once issues an apology for the late platform announcement...14 minutes before the train left!

Do you have twitter, OP? Virgin Trains are really good at responding - I once tweeted to complain about a quiet coach not being enforced (I am on the 8:07 and no train manager about) type message...she appeared about 10 minutes later and told the noisy people to shut up. May have been coincidence but I don't think so. I wasn't about to pack up all my work stuff to find her and complain, but perfectly happy to send a message to someone who would do it on my behalf!

Flicktheswitch Sun 08-Dec-13 20:08:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

paxtecum Sun 08-Dec-13 20:20:37

MANAlive: I've sat in seats that have been reserved by others.
Quite often the people who reserve seats will alreay be sitting in another carriage and not bother looking for their reservation or they may have caught a different train or even not travelled.

Of course, I'm very willing to give up the seat if the person comes looking for it.

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