To be absolutely furious, stressed, angry and in state of panic about this?

(86 Posts)
nicecupoftea2013 Fri 06-Dec-13 17:31:52

There has been restructuring in work, so we had to go for an interview for our jobs. There are enough vacancies for staff as some had left.

My interview went well, a person on the panel said "well done" as we were walking out.

I then get a phone call saying "interview was for another position also (not advertised) and when we spoke to a manager, he said no, he doesn't want you to have the job."

The next day I get a phone call, saying you have failed the interview, you are being made redundant.

I am furious, as I am a great employee. The chair of the interview panel has made sexist comments, and broken confidentiality when he spoke about another candidate. He has done other things too which raises serious questions about his professionalism and integrity.

Unfortunately, the other person on the panel is ambitious and will say anything to keep in favour with the managers.

As a widow, I am really stressed about being made redundant, especially when I have done nothing wrong. Obviously it isn't a nice job with these managers, but I would prefer to work here than be unemployed. I am scared of being unemployed as there is high unemployment in north of England.

I have asked for feedback, but the answers were vague and non committal, saying I didnt score enough points. He rushed through my interview as he had another meeting, and he even answered his mobile phone in somebody elses interview.

I have been treated appallingly by the whole process. Although, I face a risk of being bullied if I stay, I would prefer that to being on the dole.

I am waking up at night panicking and seeing these managers faces.

MaidOfStars Fri 06-Dec-13 17:46:04

Does your original job still exist in the new structure?

Rowlers Fri 06-Dec-13 17:48:54

Are you in a union? Could you seek advice and support there?

LizzieVereker Fri 06-Dec-13 17:51:05

I'm not well versed in employment law, and I'm sure other wiser people will be along shortly but I just wanted to bump and keep this in active convos for you, and to say I'm so sorry, that sounds awful thanks. I hope you get some great advice on here.

Pancakeflipper Fri 06-Dec-13 17:51:30

Even if you are not in the union, the reps will usually talk to people especially when restructures.

Are there other teams? We found with our restructures that most of us ended up in other teams.

DaveBussell Fri 06-Dec-13 18:08:34

All sounds very dodgy, sorry you are having such a bad time. sad
If there are enough jobs for everyone then they should be offering you something otherwise it makes a nonsense of the term 'redundant'.

Is there an appeals procedure with the redundancy notice - have you had anything in writing yet? Definitely take advice on this - if not from your Union then I recommend Citizens Advice.

Be prepared for a lot more stress though, you are going to need to develop a tough hide and be determined to fight against this injustice. Good Luck!

heartichoke Fri 06-Dec-13 18:12:24

Sorry this is happening - it's rubbish, isn't it?
Call ACAS helpline -
www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2042

They give good advice

Preciousbane Fri 06-Dec-13 18:14:08

ACAS are open Saturday mornings, please do ring them.

shoom Fri 06-Dec-13 18:15:31

It sounds like they may not have followed the process properly. It might be helpful to post in the Legal / Employment.

ItsIgginningToLookALotLikeXmas Fri 06-Dec-13 18:17:08

Did the manager who said no, he didn't want you, take part in the interview? Are you thinking you were not picked for sexist reasons, or just that the guy is sexist in general? I would think they have to be able to evidence why you were not successful. Who will get the post now? (Ie are they as qualified as you)

Freyaee Fri 06-Dec-13 18:18:59

Are they giving your job to anyone else? If they are making you redundant they aren't allowed to do that (as it implies the role is no longer necessary). Sounds dodgy and terribly managed to me, I'm sorry for the way they've treated you. Unfortunately, it seems bullying is common in the workplace because people know it is hard to stand your ground when jobs are scarce and people are financially insecure and scared of the repercussions. Now you have nothing to lose, make an official complaint about this guy's behaviour. I hope you can find help and preferably a new job where they will respect and value you.

LuciusMalfoyisSmokingHot Fri 06-Dec-13 18:29:54

Is your job role still available, as they cant make you redundant from you current job role, only sack you if they intend to fill that role with another person. Atleast thats how i understand it.

LuciusMalfoyisSmokingHot Fri 06-Dec-13 18:32:19

tbh, it sounds like they plan to sack people but dont have good enough reasons and are trying to work around that by making you interview for another role, although you didnt know it was for another role.

snooter Fri 06-Dec-13 18:34:50

Citizens' Advice Bureau website might help

UriGeller Fri 06-Dec-13 18:37:24

Yup, its when the job you do no longer exists that means you are redundant.

If the job is still there (even newly under a different name) they cannot make you redundant. Only sack you.

LuciusMalfoyisSmokingHot Fri 06-Dec-13 18:48:56

Did you apply for another role, as i'd question why they are interviewing you for a role you didnt apply for.

gubbygubby Fri 06-Dec-13 18:54:30

HI, i had to make someone redundant last year and they are NOT. I only had 5 employees and i had to follow procedure very carefully. The same as a big company.
There has to be a consultation period.
1. the company announce a consultation period as redundancies need to be made.
2. they choose several people for this consultation period.
3. they have to give everyone a score . This is called a Matrix.
4. The people with the lowest score told they are at risk of redundancy
5. Further period with meetings with all affected.
6. Final decision made.
If they do not follow this procedure then you have a very good case for unfair dismissal.
Following the correct procedure was drummed into me by the legal men, as this is how to avoid lawsuit.
THEY CAN NOT DO THIS. Please try not to worry till you have spoken to someone. The law is on your side.

gubbygubby Fri 06-Dec-13 18:55:01

Not allowed

nicecupoftea2013 Fri 06-Dec-13 19:56:42

Yes, there are still vacancies but they still made me redundant. I have spoken to ACAS who have given me great advice, but I do believe I will be facing a lot more stress as I fight them.

I am so angry about it though, how can idiots get jobs, act arrogant, be in the wrong and get away with it? My job pays the bills and rent, I dont get paid enough to deal with extra stress, but I do have to fight it.

I have been shaking with anger and have lost weight from it all. I keep on bursting into tears too, so it will be hard to find my tough hide, but I will have to.

I think it will be better to fight, than be unemployed. I think it is easier to look for work when you are stressed than unemployed and demotivated.
Am I right in thinking that?

It will be a hard fight though. They just told me not to return, just get my belongings, but I returned! they had no right to do that.

Gubbygubby, they didn't do that, so I probably have case for unfair dismissal. Just hope they give me my job before it goes that far.

Joysmum Fri 06-Dec-13 19:56:55

ACAS are the ones to call. You can also go through yellow pages for solicitors specializing in employment law who do a free initial consultation and have your info and questions ready and organized to make the most of it.

Freyaee Fri 06-Dec-13 20:11:26

Have you sent them a letter explaining that you're seeking legal advice? It might make them rethink their attitude towards you. I hope they have given you a proper redundancy pay out. Yes, definitely fight them, it's stressful and horrible, but it will never change if people are allowed to get away with this.

gubbygubby Fri 06-Dec-13 20:23:00

Do not leave. It will be tough , but they are hoping you will go quietly with no fuss and hope that you font know the procedure.
Go on the acas employers website and print off the step by step procedure that I to you about.
They will then realise that that you are aware that they can't do it.
Telling you to leave now is sacking you, incidentally, you can't do that either without following procedure.
Knowledge is power.

Please do not allow them to get away with this.
How long have you been with the company?

You are entitled to a weeks pay for every year worked.
As long as you have been there 2 years .

gubbygubby Fri 06-Dec-13 20:24:40

Is it a big firm?

whitesugar Fri 06-Dec-13 22:07:50

Nice, I am sorry you are going through this. I have no advice but just want to say this is exactly what is happening where I work. A totally clueless individual got a major promotion recently above several highly capable candidates. She got it because the boss is a sexist pig and she looks the part and it is highly likely that she was given the questions prior to the interview. The other candidates are devastated. If they complain their cards will be marked and that bastard will make their lives hell and they will never ever get promoted. As well as this staff are being made apply for their own jobs which have been worded so they won't even get shortlisted for interview. They are being made redundant and the jobs are being advertised again at lower grades.

I am so stressed out about all this it consumes my thoughts. It is making me extremely anxious. I have no solution but I just wanted to say you are not alone and I really feel for you. I don't know anything about the legalities but I know where I work making a complaint would make things significantly worse. I have thought about submitting a formal complaint but the procedures are extremely complicated and designed to deter people from complaining. Going down this route would just cause me massive stress. The only option I have is to keep my head down and feel lucky that I have a job. This option is extremely stressful as well. There are zero jobs where I live and if I lose my job I will lose my house. God knows! I hope you find a new position.

whitesugar Fri 06-Dec-13 22:08:39

I also meant to say that the union reps where I work are worse than useless unfortunately.

NearTheWindmill Fri 06-Dec-13 22:14:15

If there are still vacancies at or close to your grade there should be redeployment opportunities. Make an appointment with HR and ask them to take you through the procedure and how it has been applied to you.

NearTheWindmill Fri 06-Dec-13 22:15:04

And remember redundancy is a valid reason for dismissal providing a proper procedure has been followed. If it hasn't you may have a case for unfair dismissal.

nicecupoftea2013 Sat 07-Dec-13 10:13:04

Thanks everybody. ACAS have given me great advice and the law is on my side.

The problem is what gubbygubby and whitesugar have highlighted. They are hoping I go quietly, and are making things as difficult as possible for me.

I am terrified of being unemployed, so I will have to fight them. I would rather fight bullies and sexist people knowing the law is on my side, knowing they are in the wrong than to face the stress and uncertainty of being unemployed.

It does consume my thoughts all the time, and it is making me anxious. I am just hanging on until Christmas, then I can rest and I will feel much better.

I feel so angry though, I dont deserve this. I am a great employee, and am good at my job. It is a large place, and staff are considering striking for me.

whitesugar Sat 07-Dec-13 13:59:16

I really commend you for being so brave. These situations cause massive anxiety. I have to find a way to ease the anxiety and agnst otherwise I will go off my rocker. I have researched ideas online and think practising mindfullness seems a good approach. It has helped me realise I can't change the situation at work but I can try to change my reaction to it. Its very early days and I am hardly an expert but even if I get ten minutes peace a day its worth it. I go onto a website which has a few exercises which do help. Just keep breathing. Look after yourself through this stressful time.

When you have won this fight (and I'm sure you will smile ) look for another job anyway. This is a shitty way to treat an employee and if there are unfilled posts then redeployment would been appropriate. I'm not sure I would want to work somewhere long term where this was the attitude, and it would be less stressful looking for another job whilst you already have one and can continue to pay the bills.

BadLad Sun 08-Dec-13 05:33:33

Have you posted on the Employment issues forum? The poster flowery in particular is very knowledgeable and helpful about all sorts of work-related problems.

nicecupoftea2013 Thu 26-Dec-13 08:41:57

Work have now advertised my job externally!

They also haven't paid me any money for December, saying my basic pay was £0 even though I turned up every day.

Fortunately, the union rep has returned from illness, but we are closed until 6th Jan so nothing can happen until next year.

youarewinning Thu 26-Dec-13 08:50:59

Bloody Nora - how do they think they'll get away with that? Do you have a signing in/out procedure at work to prove you were there? Even if they haven't paid your wages they should have paid your redundancy money as apparently you've been made redundant.

Check the advert. The companies sometimes get away with re advertising a post by adding in a requirement for the job role that they feel they can prove you don't process from the job re interviews.

RudolphtheRedknowsraindear Thu 26-Dec-13 09:08:45

Stay strong op, they haven't followed the proper process, gubby & sugar are bang on there. Also, letters about the process, interviews & decisions have to be done to a timescale & are set down in law, they can't just say,"don't come in tomorrow."

When the redundancy process has been followed & the staff for redundancy have been selected, there is a proper process of appeal, but it has to be done to a strict timescale. You need to let them know, in writing, that you intend to appeal; don't give them your ammo that a fair & proper process has not been followed at the moment, just that you intend to appeal. Please make sure that you are in a union.

You mention that in your interview they kept a score sheet. You have the right to see that and any references that were written, (even if a phone reference was given, it has to be written by the person taking it & placed with the paperwork).

As a widow & Mum you have massive discrimination legislation on your side too. Did your company make reasonable adjustments to your work & support you properly when your partner died?

From what you've said, it looks like you have quite a case. Make sure you're with a good union, put your head down & plough on.

Sending best wishes thanks

Shesparkles Thu 26-Dec-13 09:14:05

What a hellish position to be in you poor thing.
Can I suggest you check your house insurance for legal cover? Most policies cover employment disputes. We had to use ours a couple of years back for something with dh's job, and the advice they gave us was invaluable

LuubyLuu Thu 26-Dec-13 10:19:33

Keep strong for your fight ahead.

Standing shoulder to shoulder with you.

Beastofburden Thu 26-Dec-13 10:30:36

Given you don't want to be there long term, and given they appear to have got stuff wrong, there is a negotiation here.

The easiest way to get a new job is to apply while you still have the old one.

So if your ACAS lawyer confirms the advice others have given you here (in the nicest way, do check it- there will be facts that you haven't shared that a lawyer would need to hear before deciding) then you may be able to get them to leave you alone for six months while you find something, and then you leave under a compromise agreement, with a tax free sum in settlement and a reference that they have to agree with you and your lawyer and they can't then ever deviate from.

Tis could be made to work for you. Take good legal advice, be calm and assertive, focus on getting out with a good reference and settlement and enough time to find something.

Slatecross Thu 26-Dec-13 10:41:57

Every time they do something wrong/outside of procedure, smile to yourself, because their fuck up is your gain.

Fight fight fight. This will be hard but you will absolutely come out of this stronger. And in all likelihood will benefit from it too even if you don't keep your job. You're right, they're hoping you go quietly, but from what you've posted, that's enough to make even a hardened HR manager go grey and keel over. grin

Deep breath, you WILL be ok. X x x

Slatecross Thu 26-Dec-13 10:42:46

And yes check your home insurance policy.

Graceparkhill Thu 26-Dec-13 10:50:31

I wanted to come on and wish you well OP. I admire your work ethic and I am sure your attitude and persistence will help you in the future.

If you would like any help with updating your CV or interview technique please message me. Kind thoughts heading your way.

I would also recommend "What Colour is Your Parachute"by Richard Nelson Bolles. I am sure your library could order it for you. It really helped me when I was made redundant/unfairly dismissed and I have recommended it to several friends.

whitesugar Sat 28-Dec-13 01:39:23

Nice how awful! I am sorry to hear it has come to this. I work in a public authority where this is becoming the norm. Colleagues and friends of mine are losing their jobs and their jobs are being advertised externally at lower grades. If anyone complains HR just say that different rules apply when a restructuring is taking place. It is bullshit, they are getting rid of experienced staff and replacing them with young cheaper recruits who are on lower grades with crap pensions. Funnily enough senior management are not affected, their posts seem to be secure.

I am mid 40's and sole provider for two teenagers, a mortgage and all the bills and I really am scared. I wish I could complain but my best attempt at self survival is to keep my head down which really f***ing pisses me off. You are not alone and I am thinking about you.

Retropear Sat 28-Dec-13 07:20:02

Thinking of you,my sister is being treated like shite by her company too so I know how stressful it is.

Stay strong.

winkywinkola Sat 28-Dec-13 07:22:39

Sounds like tribunal material to me.

Did they give you a proper consultation period?

I'd visit an employment solicitor.

nicecupoftea2013 Sat 28-Dec-13 10:03:50

Thanks everybody for posting, I go from moments of being strong to then being in panic.

I still don't want to be made redundant or go to a tribunal, any money I get will be taken off me as I will have to claim benefits. The thought of being unemployed and being at home all day terrifies me, I am too isolated so will struggle.

As I rent privately and I know from experience that the Benefits people mess up, I am terrified of being in a vulnerable position.

So I will fight, out of fear, but I will also feel proud of myself when it is all over.

I have requested an appeal on 10th of December, one was arranged, then they realised it was with the wrong person, (HR mistake) so I am waiting for another date.

In the meantime the closing date for my job is 6th of Jan when we return to work.

I also have proof that my interview was good!

I am confident I will win the tribunal, but I don't want it. I just want to work, possibly be bullied now, while I desperately look for new work.
I don't trust them now after they haven't paid me. I am wondering whether it was deliberate, surely somebody who has input my wages in for 12 years see pay as £0 would realise it is a mistake?

I hate the managers now (there is more stuff) how do I be professional when I see them?

I will try and answer again, but I can only cope in small bits x

Slatecross Sat 28-Dec-13 10:31:59

You might not have to go to tribunal - most issues like this are sorted out well before the tribunal stage and the company would have to be absolutely certain of its position before they'd put themselves in such a public arena and open themselves up for criticism.
My prediction is that you'll end up with a Compromise Agreement, essentially meaning they pay you off. Given that you should never have lost your job and they've cocked up their own procedures they'd have to take your loss of earnings into account, so it's not an insubstantial sum. But half an hour on the phone to a decent employment lawyer will tell you more.
There's nothing to stop you raising a grievance if you feel you are bullied. Personally I'd raise a grievance at every opportunity to ensure that if you do keep your job, the very last thing you'll be us bullied as they'll know to leave you well alone.
Fuck 'em. Beat them with their own sticks!

Slatecross Sat 28-Dec-13 10:35:18

As for not being paid I'd contact the most senior person you can get hold of, and complain bitterly. And outline the impact this has had on your health, stress, bank charges, a miserable Christmas etc etc etc. then follow up in writing and copy in HR, your line, payroll etc. As I've said, every mistake they make is power to you.

Beckamaw Sat 28-Dec-13 10:51:26

My ex H was in this position a few years ago. His job was given to a 'mate' of the new Manager. confused
Our house insurance included legal cover, so we contacted them. It only took one letter, and he was offered a 25K payout, which he accepted, given that it would have been impossible to go back.
I think they expected him to just disappear too.

Keep fighting!

LiegeAndLief Sat 28-Dec-13 11:07:53

So sorry you're going through this. I have been through many rounds of redundancy and have been made redundant (fairly and legally) twice so I can fully sympathise with that horrible sickening feeling.

I'm no legal expert and have never been through restructuring, which may be different. However, in all the situations I have been in it is very clearly the position that is made redundant, not that person, so it sounds very dodgy they are advertising it externally. I also know that you still get your notice period when made redundant (assuming you had one, don't know what the statutory notice period is, mine has always been one month once out of probationary period). So you get official notification at the end of the consultation period that you are being made redundant, and from that date you either work your notice period or you are asked to leave and paid in lieu. Can't believe they haven't paid you anything.

Good luck! Think you are very brave fighting them, hope it turns out well.

LiegeAndLief Sat 28-Dec-13 11:10:46

Oh, and on the paying front - surely they either believe they have made you redundant, in which case they pay your notice and redundancy pay (statutory minimum should be 12 weeks' pay as you've worked there 12 years) or they believe you are still working there and they pay your salary!not paying you anything shouldn't be an option!

Greenkit Mon 06-Jan-14 06:50:26

How terrible that you can be treated in this way, I hope you can stay strong and make them pay

BakerStreetSaxRift Mon 06-Jan-14 08:16:10

Oh my Goodness this is appalling. I hope you can find the strength to see it through, I doubt if it would get as far as a tribunal as they'll know they are on to a hiding to nothing.

Thinking of you.

Rhiana1979 Mon 06-Jan-14 12:18:02

Keep fighting x

nicecupoftea2013 Sat 11-Jan-14 09:23:10

Thanks everybody x

BakerStreetSaxRift, I also believe it wont go to a tribunal, it will be too embarrassing for them.

I finally have a meeting arranged, in two weeks time! My case is prepared, and what a case it is! I am looking forward to it.

My fear now is that they will cancel the meeting, and just give me my job. I really want the meeting to explain everything that has happened. I need the meeting to help me make closure. I would like an apology from them and compassionate leave as I am exhausted!

BakerStreetSaxRift Sat 11-Jan-14 11:01:11

Maybe if they offer you your job you could say that their actions have made your position completely untenable? Even if they do offer you your job back, I'd still pursue you case.

seventiesgirl Tue 28-Jan-14 23:00:36

Any update nicecuppa?

cjel Tue 28-Jan-14 23:18:58

I have only just read this and hope you are ok?x

nicecupoftea2013 Thu 30-Jan-14 20:42:06

Well I had my appeal/first ever meeting 7 working days ago and still no decision, despite a polite reminder.

I now have to go for a job interview with the manager who didnt want me to have the other job! It was him who made me "redundant" even though he wasnt on the panel.

To make it worse, this interview is Monday. My last ever day in work.

I am scared that it is just a way of getting rid of me and the interview is a "tick box" approach. That they are holding back the appeal decision on purpose to time it with the interview.

I am scared of being unemployed, but if I get the job I wont be happy as my trust and confidence has gone in the managers. The whole place has poor morale even though my colleagues are great people.

I am just so exhausted from the past few months, but I will still attend the interview.

Does anyone have any tips for Monday? How to give a good interview feeling it is predetermined outcome, but I know it could be another reason to add to my case.

I feel sick with it all, so Sunday night I will be even worse.

mummydarkling Thu 30-Jan-14 22:02:05

flowers
Hope it goes well and even if you don't get the result you want you still have your integrity something the bosses are lacking.

DPotter Thu 30-Jan-14 23:30:36

Go in with guns blazing Nice ! If you feel its a done-deal - there's nothing to loose; So dress to kill, throw your shoulders back, chin up and breath. Run thru potential questions before hand - what would you bring to this role / can you give examples of when you have successfully completed something . Maybe think of questions they asked at the previous interview and go over your answers.
oh and look the panel members squarely in the eye - just to let them know you are someone who should be taken seriously.
Best of luck

Jaynebxl Thu 30-Jan-14 23:44:46

What a horrible mess. Here's hoping you can get a better job elsewhere and be free of them.

EBearhug Thu 30-Jan-14 23:59:03

If it were me, there would be two things I'd want to achieve:
1) Do the best interview I possibly could, to show them they made a mistake (and to give me breathing time to get a job where I'd be appreciated.)
2) Use it as interview practice for the jobs I'll be applying for after this. You already think it's a done deal, so use it for your own ends.

Think about the questions you had in the last interview - were there some you could have answered better? If so, think up how you'd answer it better.

Like DPotter says, think about what you would bring to the role and so on.

Go through the projects and so on you've worked on in the last year and earlier. Remind yourself of things you've done well, and have them in your head, so you've got examples of things you've done well. Focus on STAR - situation, task, action, result. This is all good stuff to work on anyway, because if you don't get it, you'll be applying elsewhere, so it's worth spending time on.

Dress the part, and think about your body language - make sure you're sitting up straight, not hunched over. Firm handshake, look them in the eye. It's fine to pause before answering a question - it shows you're thinking about it. Also think about your breathing, particularly if you get nervous. It can help to calm you and focus you to think about your breathing before you go in, to consciously breathe more slowly and deeply, because that's how we breathe when we're calmer - nerves make it faster and shallower, and consciously breathing more slowly can help trick your body into thinking you are calmer than you really are.

It may also be worth considering what questions you have for them. Not the real questions (Why are you all so useless? Why are we bothering with this, when you've clearly already made up your minds?) - but questions about what this particular role might include, or development opportunities.

Good luck!

DPotter Sun 02-Feb-14 18:21:32

Good luck for tomorrow!

nicecupoftea2013 Mon 03-Feb-14 18:36:18

I am so proud of myself as I gave a fantastic interview.

There were four people on the panel, (usually three) so they were obviously trying to intimidate me. When I told my colleagues about the members they said "Cow/nasty" etc about every single panel member.

But I gave a great interview. One panel member started off by being "fake charming" but ended by giving me the evil eye.

If I am turned down now, then it is another case for the tribunal as I have evidence that I have been doing parts of this job!!! So two suitable alternative jobs not offered to me.

I dont really care about work now, but I am pleased I stood up for myself. I hope I get the job, then they leave me alone, and I can concentrate on getting out as soon as possible. I would rather look for work while I am working, than being on the dole.

Still no decision from the appeal though.

innisglas Mon 03-Feb-14 19:43:08

It all sounds awful but I so admire you for your fight, which is not just for you but helps everyone. Best wishes

Hissy Mon 03-Feb-14 19:46:10

Good for you love! Have to admire your spirit and fight! Go you! smile

BakerStreetSaxRift Mon 03-Feb-14 20:14:33

Well done today, you should be very, very proud of yourself.

And now you know, even when faced with such a hostile interview panel as today, you can knock it out of the park in other interviews when you leave this appalling company, hopefully in your own time.

MooMaid Mon 03-Feb-14 22:06:10

Just read this and has made me so angry!! I have everything crossed for you and well done for sticking up for yourself.

Even more fingers crossed that you find a better job and can tell them to shove their job up their arse you're resigning

nicecupoftea2013 Tue 04-Feb-14 17:47:26

Well I have been failed the interview I had yesterday and also turned down for my appeal!

I have emails saying they wont offer me my advertised job as I would never be capable of learning the job even with training and support!! Another email from someone doing the "new" job says it is exactly the same job. I have lots of other evidence too.

Their appeal answer ignores all the evidence, and say that I lied about everything.

So my redundancy is official. Another colleague who was sacked for no genuine reason, believes they dont care and will just pay the money in a tribunal because it is cheaper than paying wages.

I will fight it, as I would prefer to work. But I need to be realistic that I am facing redundancy and I am so scared.

I private rent two bedroom flat, but my sons have just left home, so I now have the bedroom tax! They will be returning from uni so I need to keep the bedroom that they share.

The unemployment office is awful now, the clients I work with tell me awful stories.

I think I am in shock as I know I have been wronged.

I am also scared because my youngest left home Sunday, so I will be home alone all the time which isnt healthy for me. Spending days not speaking to adults will really get to me.

Ba*****S!

I know I want to leave there, but I would prefer to work until I get another job. I will miss the people I work with, (not the managers!) I need structure and purpose in my life especially as my son has just left home.

I am in shock and have to go now. I am in the house alone and just need a hug x

Crazy4U Tue 04-Feb-14 17:57:51

I have no words of advice but can offer a (((hug))).

Igglywiggly Tue 04-Feb-14 18:01:36

Oh you poor thing!

>hug<

What a terrible time you've had. The way you have dealt with it has been an inspiration and shows what absolute fools your managers are. Hopefully another employer will see your intelligence, grace and fortitude and snap you up.

3littlefrogs Tue 04-Feb-14 18:25:06

Can you sign up with an agency? Would it be worth meeting with or writing to your MP?

RandomMess Tue 04-Feb-14 18:32:57

I admire you so much for fighting them. I would go to the drs and get it written down on your notes at how much the stress has affected you - may lead to a larger payout at tribunal?

Private rentals are exempt from bedroom tax I believe?

Can you go and do some voluntary work just to get out of the house and keep some structure?

I have to say, you rock, I'm not sure I could have attempted what you have done.

enriquetheringbearinglizard Tue 04-Feb-14 18:38:58

I had read your thread before OP and am very sorry to hear this latest setback.

Please keep your head held high and do take all the advice available to put the right wheels in motion. I totally appreciate your point of view and offer my virtual support, for whatever use that is.
Good Luck thanks

nicecupoftea2013 Sat 15-Feb-14 23:43:45

I am appealing my "set up" interview and will see what happens. The feedback says my scores are too low to even consider training for me, but it doesn't say what my scores are! But I am appealing on the grounds that I am intelligent and capable of learning "on the job" training in a reasonable time etc

This appeal will either get me a job, or it will add to my tribunal case.

So far I have:
Failure to follow legal dismissal procedure
Unfair selection-based on interview alone (not telling me required scores and criteria)
Not a redundancy- the job in the restructure is exactly the same
Failure to offer work in redeployment
Failure to offer any suitable work

One thing I do know, is that I am not accepting an out of court settlement. I will go to a tribunal.

I have lost trust and confidence in them so I dont believe I will win this appeal. It almost feels like a conspiracy now as so many people are involved.

My notice period has ran out now so I feel sad about it all. I enjoyed my job and had some lovely colleagues.x

Jaynebxl Sun 16-Feb-14 07:22:56

So sorry to hear it worked out like that. Can't remember if this was talked about before but are you in a union?

Misspixietrix Sun 16-Feb-14 07:37:06

OP do you have proof of attending every day in December? Did you have a clocking in/out system you can get hold of?

One thing that occurs to me. They say you can't do "the job" which is very similar or the same as your previous job. Do you have any recent appraisals documenting you doing "the job" perfectly well?
Sorry it's come to tis op sad they sound awful

Surely she doesn't need to prove she attended work? They need to prove either that they gave her notice in advance of that period or that she was meant to be working and didn't turn up,in which case they'd have proof they tried to deal with it at the time? As they would with any employee. I work in a different office from my boss who travels a lot and can go a week without being at her desk but shed still be aware something was up if I didn't turn up for a week and raise it - shed start off worried about me!

Misspixietrix Sun 16-Feb-14 08:01:27

Stealth I was thinking in line of her saying they didn't pay her for December when they should have done. If she has proof she can wave it under their noses and make them pay her what she's owed for that month before tribunal etc.

QOD Sun 16-Feb-14 08:07:19

Oh man, sorry this is still going on

ItitwrongtofancyHarryStyles Sun 16-Feb-14 08:26:56

Sorry you are so stressed. It's a very scary thing to happen and you have my sympathy.

Few points:

When bosses restructure they know exactly who they want in the roles and who they want to take redundancy. It's often why they restructure. They would have gone through it all with lawyers and HR before in blunt terms to see what they can and can't do and will be confident they can drive their plan through.

Also, Stealth, I think it's probably a waste of time OP proving she was doing the job well from appraisals. All they need to say is that another candidate can do it better in their opinion. They can take on whoever they like really.

However they seem to have handled it very badly especially if the new roles is significantly similar to the old one - what a stupid mistake - so I undersand why you are pursuing. The whole process does indeed sound very shoddy.

OP I've got to be honest, I'm concerned by your emotional, angry comments about people on the panel being 'cows' and 'bitches', people are 'unprofessional', 'overly ambitious' and 'arrogant', others going for the role are inferior to you.

I do hope you don't let any of this spill over into any conversations you having during this process or in general in a work environment - you will make yourself not only look unprofessional but also a difficult person to work with. It's unlikely any of them are awful, evil people, they are just people doing a job.

This might all sound harsh, but you need to keep calm, be professional and at this stage of the process keep focussed on what you want to happen. Don't waste your energy on any of the other stuff, it's irrelevant what motivates these people or what their personalities are like.

Harry, surely not though if there are enough jobs to go round and the op is at risk, if she can do the job she should get the job. Who are these "other candidates"?

ItitwrongtofancyHarryStyles Sun 16-Feb-14 09:10:46

Whoever management has in mind! All they have to do is say they believe another candidate can do the job better. It's pretty much that simple (well it is in my industry, I can't speak for other possibly more structured industries).

As I said, people (unfortunately) need to wise up to the fact that if they didn't get the role and they are qualified for that role then it usually means that management, for whatever reason, wanted them out of that role.

Walkingwounded Sun 16-Feb-14 09:13:50

Op do you have legal advice? Really the only way to combat this sort of bullying is by showing them clearly that their position is untenable.

But if there are enough roles for people I struggle to see how they could justify that. Agree if there aren't then it's a different matter

RandomMess Sun 16-Feb-14 10:59:52

Hugs & flowers, this is going to take a long long time to resolve isn't it sad

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