AIBU to be "Difficult" ; and "Demanding" ; Over my Brother's Wedding?

(133 Posts)
FixItUpChappie Fri 15-Nov-13 04:29:56

My one and only sibling is getting married. When he was visiting us in late summer we were out to dinner and chatted about some of his venue ideas…they were considering his fiancée’s home town, where they currently reside and were considering somewhere abroad. When he mentioned Mexico, I diplomatically said that he is the only person in the world I would consider going to Mexico for as I have a lot of safety concerns about bring the children to Mexico (not to derail the thread over debates on the merits of Mexico!). It was a light conversation over possibilities, a ribbing over me being a worrywart etc – nothing had been decided or even looked into in the slightest.

We’ve now been notified that the wedding will be in Hawaii in just over a year. My mum is totally stressed about the cost. She looked into fares and called to inform me that an 8+ hour flight to Hawaii will cost DH and I upwards of $6000 with the kids (who will be 2 and 4 years respectively) – not including hotel, food, transport etc, etc. She took it upon herself to email him that she was worried about the cost especially for my family and about the travel (she has never travelled outside North America and has some mobility issues).

He apparently immediately called her on the angry offensive advising they are giving plenty of notice, that nobody else has any problems with the plan – just us. To object is to be “difficult” and “demanding” apparently. That it wouldn’t be so expensive if I hadn’t vetoed Mexico shockhmm. He pointed out his fiancée’s sister has young children and has no issue with attending. He suggested a range of ideas for me and DH coming without the kids (not going to happen) or me going alone and basically advised that he wants expects his only sister to be there.

This is so much pressure. I think there is no way in hell we will be able to save up the required amount. Even my going alone will be a huge financial pressure. I personally have no desire to be that far from my young children either TBH. I am at the tail end of my 2nd maternity leave in 3 years….we are up to our nose hairs in debt.

I know the cardinal rule of Destinations weddings is fine as long as there is no pressure for guests to attend…but what about the burden on immediate family?! I just think it’s massively selfish. Ahh! I don’t want to miss my brother’s wedding or cause strife but seriously – this is just an incredible burden on us! AIBU to even consider not going?

SpecialAgentFreyPie Fri 15-Nov-13 04:36:19

YANBU shock

Groomzilla spoilt brat

Chottie Fri 15-Nov-13 04:44:31

The bottom line is if you can't afford it, you can't afford it! YANBU shock

When he sends out the invites I think he will be surprised how many other people send polite regrets when they look at the cost too.

I agree with specialagent he is def a Groomzilla

sonlypuppyfat Fri 15-Nov-13 04:45:53

Why can't he just have his honeymoon there? It's a bit rotten giving you the guilt trip.

FixItUpChappie Fri 15-Nov-13 04:50:35

This seems so out of character for my brother. I'm just gobsmacked! He is almost 40, has never owned a home, has no children and has no debts....but you'd think with some creativity he could at least imagine why DH and I might have a problem with these plans!

There wont be a bunch of guests - its just immediate family and their absolute closest friends to my understanding. My mum and I are DB's only family - its just us. My absence would be notable.

GertBySea Fri 15-Nov-13 05:13:42

All the family stuff aside, have you looked at the costs yourself? My mother wouldn't be very savvy about shopping around, using cheaper airlines, deals etc.

Perhaps yours is, but I think it's worth checking it yourself. It wouldn't cost that much from Australia so I think it sounds a bit steep from Nth America.

YoDiggity Fri 15-Nov-13 05:33:31

YANBU and he is being completely U. He is being a Groomzilla.

Only a selfish idiot would plan a wedding somewhere very far and very costly without considering whether his nearest and dearest can afford the time and the money to attend, or are willing to spend it. He can get married wherever he pleases of course, so long as there is no assumption or sense of entitled expectation that people will be there.

I think weddings abroad are lovely if you are doing it to avoid having to have certain people attending, but he is being an arse by putting you in this position.

As presumably nothing is booked and paid for in full yet you are going to have to email him and politely but firmly put him straight on a few things. If it means a lot to have you there then he will surely see sense. if not then politely decline ASAP and let them get on with it without you. Don't put yourself under undue stress over this.

Pancakeflipper Fri 15-Nov-13 05:41:57

I think you should look into the cost for you and your mother ( I sense you'd not be happy her going alone).

Look. But if its not affordable then you cannot go. Tell him it's impossible cost wise but perhaps you and your mother could then have a celebration meal for them on their return?

Why do people think people wish to spend hundreds/thousands on someone else's wedding. A wedding is lovely but it's the marriage that's important.

MatildaMai Fri 15-Nov-13 05:42:40

I think destination weddings are selfish, tbh. And we had one. I do regret it now.

Just tell him you don't have the money. Simple. Sure he will be annoyed, but you don't have the money. And if you did, wouldn't you want to have your own family holiday, somewhere that you want to go?

And Mexico.. the poverty, the crime... I would be very reluctant to take my DC there. If you are staying in a compound resort, it is not so bad, but what's the point of going all that way to be imprisoned with a barbed wire fence all around you?

ChasedByBees Fri 15-Nov-13 05:45:40

If he wants to be creative and demands that you and your family are there then he can pay for you all. It's way too much for a wedding, even a sibling. I would give him plenty of notice now that there is no way you can afford it. It's entirely unreasonable of him to demand you spend £8K (once you include hotels) to attend his wedding.

ChasedByBees Fri 15-Nov-13 05:48:04

Also be v clear with him. Even just you attending is going to be £2K which for a young family with debts is a huge amount - a family holiday amount. He wants your entire family to miss out on a holiday (or more likely, food!) so you can go to Hawaii on your own. Just no. He can tantrum all he likes. He is a groomzilla spoilt brat.

BoundandRebound Fri 15-Nov-13 06:04:11

Tell him now that you won't be able to afford to go

If you get married abroad, we did but in Europe, you invite people knowing that their ability and desire to attend are not necessarily the same.

He's being a twat.

Even a European wedding with cheap air fares would run you a few thousand tbh

LovesBeingHereAgain Fri 15-Nov-13 06:06:20

Take sloop at prices yourself and then call him.

You need to tell him tgat firstly you didn't know anything about your mums intention to call him. That it's going to cost in tge ballpark of x amount and that regardless of how much you want to be tgere you cannot afford it. But that you hope he has an amazing time and maybe they could sykpe the service.

OrangePixie Fri 15-Nov-13 06:09:49

First, look around for the cheapest deal you can find. It may not cost as much as your mum said.

Second, see how much you can realistically save between now and then. Make a list of your income and outgoings etc.

If the two figures don't meet, see what kind of deal you could get on a loan on top of the debt you already have and if you could afford the repayments.

Finally, send all of the above information to your brother and ask him whether he thinks you can afford it or not.

Jaynebxl Fri 15-Nov-13 06:17:21

Wow I'm blown away by someone expecting their sister, who they are apparently close to and presumably love, to spend so much on getting to their wedding. As someone else asked, why can't they just

Jaynebxl Fri 15-Nov-13 06:19:26

Oops sorry, pressed send too soon.

Why can't they just have their honeymoon in Hawaii?

Ps sorry to be pedantic but Hawaii IS still North America, being one of the 50 states of the USA.

zippey Fri 15-Nov-13 06:37:54

I wouldn't even bother looking around for cheaper prices. It's Hawaii - it won't be cheap. Even if it were £200 per person you'd be spending the best part of £2000.

Just tell him what you told him here. The provblem may be that you provisionally agreed to Mexico which would be just as costly.

Say you would love to go but it's too costly.

Can he not just have the wedding here?

ChasedByBees Fri 15-Nov-13 06:42:35

Orangepixie there's no way the OP should agree to more debt.

FigEater Fri 15-Nov-13 06:49:07

I flew to Hawaii from San Diego (or LA can't remember) and it was $100 return with a cheap airline. They're probably much closer than you'll be flying from but the US does have cheap internal flights. Book well in advance and don't get him a present. You would have had to pay for a hotel wherever he'd had it.

LtEveDallas Fri 15-Nov-13 06:49:31

I wouldn't have a problem taking kids to Mexico, well except for the length of the flight. We had our honeymoon there and absolutely loved it. We hope to take DD one day.

Hawaii is ridiculously expensive. I'd always said to DH that I'd love to go, but when I idly priced it up I was shocked at how much it would cost. Having a wedding there and then 'expecting' people to attend (family or not) is horribly selfish and frankly, with two small kids you are not going to get anything out of it - it's not exactly a 'holiday' destination geared at little ones.

I'd just be very polite and say that the expense is too much for your family to bear, and you cannot justify putting your family in debt for his celebrations. Have a lovely time and we will see you when you get back.

BalloonSlayer Fri 15-Nov-13 06:51:09

What country are you in OP?

(the OP put prices in $ and mentions her Mum never travelling out of North America)

If OP is in North America then Mexico is MUCH nearer and cheaper than Hawaii.

OP - Yanbu.

Just say you can't afford it.

< bluster bluster rant rave > "But you're my sister. I EXPECT you to be there!"

"Have the wedding somewhere I can get to and I'll be there."

DontmindifIdo Fri 15-Nov-13 06:53:00

Firstly, look at e prices yourself, your mum might not have found the best deal. Then if it is unaffordable, tell him you can't afford it, wish him well and don't let him guilt you into going, if he wanted you there, he'd pay. Destination weddings seem cheap to the couple, but this is because a lot of the financial burden of the wedding is shifted onto the guests rather than the couple. (plus the assumption that you want to use up your annual leave going on a big group holiday)

If he pulls the "well xyz don't have a problem going" say calmly "they must have more spare money, we can't save enough, we can't afford it so can't go"

Anatanacoat Fri 15-Nov-13 06:57:45

You are under no obligation to fly to Hawaii. Send your regrets and do not discuss it further. He is being totally unreasonable. Extraordinarily unreasonable!

My brother got married in the Seychelles but he paid for my ticket and hotel, otherwise I would not have gone. Could not have gone, and no one would have expected me to. As a family you do have duties to each other, I think: I would care for my brother's children if he could not; I would always try to help him if he needed me. But there is really no obligation to go into debt in service to his trivial whims and fancies. How ridiculous.

justmuddlingalongsomehow Fri 15-Nov-13 07:00:31

If he's got no kids no debt almost 40 ask him to pay!

SanityClause Fri 15-Nov-13 07:00:51

GertBySea, I love your name!

My family always used to sing "Good for Gert!" after the "girt by sea" bit. grin

Also, good advice about shopping around.

OP, It's a different scenario, but we were invited to my sister's wedding in Australia, which took place about 6 months after we had just been there (2 adults, 3 DC) for Christmas. (She wasn't even engaged at Christmas time, so we didn't know this would happen.)

We explained we couldn't go, and she was very understanding, but I now do regret not just going on my own.

Inertia Fri 15-Nov-13 07:03:58

If he expects you to attend he needs to have his wedding somewhere you can afford to go to, or he can pay. Don't get over your heads in debt to accede to his demands and petulance. Why can't they honeymoon in Hawaii?

SatinSandals Fri 15-Nov-13 07:05:01

I wouldn't get into an argument, just say that much as you would love to go you can't afford it ad leave it at that. If he argues just keep calm and say 'sorry, we don't have the money' and repeat as necessary.

He cannot expect anything of you that costs upwards of six grand, tell him to get a grip.

nooka Fri 15-Nov-13 07:06:59

We had a holiday in Hawaii last summer. It was not hugely expensive, and where we live (West Coast Canada) it's about as popular as Mexico at a fairly similar cost for a package. So the cost entirely depends on where you live and how much of a compromise you are prepared to make on how long it takes to get you there (we did three flights and it was quite painful!)

However if it's too expensive for the OP it's too expensive. My brother got married this year and it was a very expensive family trip for us (different circumstances as we moved abroad so were going 'home'). If we couldn't have taken the whole family I would have gone on my own - I wouldn't have missed my brother's wedding for the world. Bu then he's not have said anything except that he would miss me if I couldn't have gone for any reason.

Normalisavariantofcrazy Fri 15-Nov-13 07:36:48

My vote is on this being a bridezilla issue and he's just the mouth piece

PansOnFire Fri 15-Nov-13 07:44:36

I'd sit down with my brother and have this out. It probably does sound a bit bratty coming from your mum but once he sees you are trying to find a way to attend you might find he's more understanding. He's being completely unreasonable, I wonder what his fiancé thinks?

What is it about weddings that makes people forget all common and social decency? Just because a couple wish to spend loads on a wedding doesn't mean the guests also want to! Destination weddings are selfish for loads of reasons, the cost being only one of them.

FunkyBoldRibena Fri 15-Nov-13 07:51:59

I'd wait until i received an invite, then look at the costs and then either accept or send your apologies.

DeepThought Fri 15-Nov-13 08:32:07

Why is your Mum stirring? Does she have form for it?

WooWooOwl Fri 15-Nov-13 08:32:52

I feel for you, I'd hate to be in a position where I'd either have to get my family into more debt or miss my only brothers wedding.

I feel for your brother too. He probably does understand that it will be difficult for you but is being swept away by what his bride wants and is trying to keep her happy. If she is telling him that her family are happy to attend and that the destination wedding is what she wants more than anything, then your bother is being stuck in a difficult position.

If you really won't be able to go I think you need to tell him ASAP.

Strumpetron Fri 15-Nov-13 08:36:16

How is the mum 'stirring' isn't she allowed to discuss family issues with her daughter FFS?

OP I wouldn't go. It'd be far too much stress on yourself and your finances. He is being selfish and going mad at your for it is ridiculous.

NotYoMomma Fri 15-Nov-13 08:39:04

is he on smack or does he just want one?

tell him to jog on

Theodorous Fri 15-Nov-13 08:44:52

I would say it's massively selfish (and it is) but I personally rejoice at these situations. You don't have to go! All the tediousness and faff of other people's weddings avoided. Have a lovely day out instead and think of it as a lucky escape from what sounds like an up-it's-own-arse day.

Matchthecase Fri 15-Nov-13 08:47:30

YANBU.

I think there is no way in hell we will be able to save up the required amount. Even my going alone will be a huge financial pressure. I personally have no desire to be that far from my young children either TBH. I am at the tail end of my 2nd maternity leave in 3 years….we are up to our nose hairs in debt.

You can't afford to go, end of story. You need to tell him this. You will be putting your family in further debt by going that could take years to pay off. It's sad but you have to put your foot down and explain this to your brother.

flowery Fri 15-Nov-13 08:51:32

Normally I'd be saying, it's your brother, and however irritating, when it's a very close family member like that, you just deal with it, and pull whatever strings you can to be there.

However, expecting anyone to fork out that amount of money for someone else's wedding is absolutely beyond the pale. You simply cannot afford it. It's not a case of you wanting to prioritise other things. The money just isn't there. Simple.

His fiancée's sister may have no issue with attending, good for her, presumably she has no issue with finding that amount of money. That's not relevant to you.

I wouldn't be happy about your mum for taking it upon herself to contact your brother about it, but her motives were good and it doesn't alter the facts.

jenniferlawrence Fri 15-Nov-13 08:56:14

YANBU, he is. I usually think that family members should be supportive of what the bride and groom want as its their day but expecting you to travel around the world for a holiday is a different thing altogether.

I wouldn't want to feel forced into taking my family on a long haul trip and there's no way I'd go without them. If they really want to get married there and really want you to attend they'll have to help you pay for it.

I suspect they'll end up changing their plans as its unlikely many people will be able to afford it.

intitgrand Fri 15-Nov-13 08:59:38

'My vote is on this being a bridezilla issue and he's just the mouth piece'

'being swept away by what his bride wants'

Nowhere does he allude to it being the bride's decision! Shame on you and your mysogenist comments!!

DeepThought Fri 15-Nov-13 09:02:00

The Mum stirred by taking upon herself to email the brother bleating about cost then relayed the subsequent convo with DB back to OP remembering to include 'difficult' and 'demanding'. I bet OP would have spoken to her DB carefully and couched terms in a way so as to avoid or reduce upset and conflict.

Poor you OP. Look into the costs yourself, unsociable hours flight and that can reduce £££

Peekingduck Fri 15-Nov-13 09:02:22

Nope. Just send regrets, you can't attend. Don't go into detail at all. Let's face it, even if you did save enough for you to go alone, you've surely got much more pressing things you need to spend the money on.

ENormaSnob Fri 15-Nov-13 09:02:28

He can stick his wedding up his shitter.

CoolJazz Fri 15-Nov-13 09:10:56

Find out the actual costs involved, don't just go on the figure your mother has quoted.

You had indicated you'd go to Mexico, so you need to establish how much more expensive Hawaii will be than Mexico, as unless it's a lot you will seem unreasonable and difficult to your brother.

If after this you find the cost for all of you is prohibitive, you'll have to tell your brother you can't all attend.

You could then consider attending on your own with your mother, which I imagine will be less expensive than the whole family to Mexico.

As you and your mum are his only Famiky, it might be important to do this, even though it's not your first choice, as I think you may regret a Famiky rift in future years.

intitgrand Fri 15-Nov-13 09:21:27

'The Mum stirred by taking upon herself to email the brother bleating about cost '
But the mum is worried about the cost too!!

ZenNudist Fri 15-Nov-13 09:27:44

I got married in Cyprus (family travelled from UK). I didn't require people to come. I did have slightly harsh words with my sister who has form for being stingey & hundreds of thousands in savings, no kids and well paid job. I told of she never did anything fun she'd have nothing good to look back on!

Meanwhile my bro, stationed in Germany with his army job at the time said it would be ££££ for him to attend & I was happy for him to turn up to UK do. I wouldn't/didn't hold it against either of them for not coming. It turned out my dsis had a good time& I think she was glad she came.

I deliberately got married somewhere that appealed to my and dh's parents. And rejected far flung destinations as too costly for my m&d.

I think you need to talk face to face with your db. Not email or phone. Just decline for your good reasons. He'll see you're upset. Say you support him in his decision to get married where he wants & you won't hold it against them that his plans effectively exclude your family on grounds of cost.

People have destination weddings for lots of reasons. I did it as I didn't want to get into rigmarole of massive expensive UK do. Did not want a massive wedding & didn't feel I'd get the small wedding I wanted in the UK without offending family anyway.

Your db's df might have similar issues.

SconeForAStroll Fri 15-Nov-13 09:30:58

What a difficult situation for you sad ultimately though if you can't afford it you can't go.

And if you are in the US it would mean sacrificing a good portion of whatever college fund you are building up for the dc.

Or you ask him to pay a proportion if he wants expects you to drop everything you there that much.

Preciousbane Fri 15-Nov-13 09:31:30

Hawaii is one of the most expensive places to travel to I have heard it is full of honeymooners and very rich retired Americans, sort of holiday of a lifetime destination.

Just don't go, I get the feeling your an American but in British terms your bro is being a wanker.

SkinnybitchWannabe Fri 15-Nov-13 09:35:04

Your brother sounds like a selfish dick.
You cant afford it so simply say sorry but you wont be attending.
A friend of mine got married in Las Vegas and had webcam thing (still dont know what they exactly did) so family and friends could watch the wedding live online.
I would not spend that amount of money because someone decided to get married abroad.

PTFO Fri 15-Nov-13 09:36:04

YANBU. At best you go on your own and share a room/costs with your mother.

We had a similar thing with BIL. DH went on his own.

Does your DB expect you to magic up this money, does watching him say I DO really have to be so fucking expensive to everyone. Ask his best man to video it and email it to you! hell do an online real time link and watch it in your wedding outfits (in the middle of the night our time of course) with popcorn ;-)

PestoPeachissimos Fri 15-Nov-13 09:37:59

What I can't understand is wanting to have all your family & friends with you post wedding. During what is effectively your honeymoon! When surely most newly-weds would prefer their own company confused

I think it would be better for them to get married somewhere at home and then shove off to their dream destination, which suits them. Mexico, if that's what they really wanted originally, for example. But definitely not to expect family & friends to be either happy to, or able to, fork out shed loads of money to be able to indulge the couple's selfish whims!

Alexandrite Fri 15-Nov-13 09:39:20

I think the thing is to check how much it will cost and then let him know immediately that you can't afford it if you can't. That way presumably they can still change it to somewhere else. If you leave it too long their plans may be too advanced to change.

I think your mum's wrong about the costs. It won't cost that much. I just priced up 2 weeks in Waikiki for my family (which includes a teen so 3 adults and 1 child) from a uk regional airport and you flight + hotel comes in between £6.5k and £8k at very nice hotels. I'd imagine I could bring that cost down by finding hotels that don't sponsor Hawaii 5-0.

24+ hours of travelling each way! however! Eek.

Good job it was purely idle speculation.

Nonetheless, if your family is struggling for money at the moment, then forking out for a family holiday for your brother's wedding is not a good idea. Your brother is so obviously being unreasonable. If he wants you to be there, he'll need to pay for your flights and hotel. That's the thing about a 'destination wedding'; you have to be willing to pay for anyone that you insist must be there, and willing for no one else to attend.

diddl Fri 15-Nov-13 09:42:16

Did you tell him that you didn't veto Mexico?

You'll have to tell him that you can't afford to go & that's that tbh.

madamginger Fri 15-Nov-13 09:44:36

My sister got married in new York, me and my family didn't go, we could just not afford it, it would have cost about £4000 for the 5 of us!
Yanbu, it still pisses me off now.

Although I bet he's getting married in Maui. The price is very similar though, but it's c. 30 hours of travelling on the way home. Eurgh.

Damnautocorrect Fri 15-Nov-13 09:48:22

I think if you chose to get married abroad you have to accept unless you can afford to pay yourself the important people in your life can't /won't afford it, or want to take precious annual leave for it.

PestoPeachissimos Fri 15-Nov-13 09:50:16

Anyhoo OP, YANBU.

Your brother is!

I would just tell them that you won't be able to afford to attend wedding if they stick to Hawaii. And I would suggest your Mother tells him aswell.

They might have a re-think, or they may decide to go ahead regardless, just with his fiancė's family attending. Their choice ultimately.

specialsubject Fri 15-Nov-13 09:51:13

it's only a party. Tell him 'sorry, but we cannot afford the travel and accommodation to go that far'. This is a simple sentence, repeated sufficiently he may just be able to understand.

Handbagsonnhold Fri 15-Nov-13 09:51:32

Yanbu .... Hear more and more of these extremely expensive weddings abroad ....they should accept that ( even close) family may not be able to afford it. I always think it seems a little selfish to book these things unless you are extremely affluent and can help out with fares etc.

mameulah Fri 15-Nov-13 09:52:40

It is irrelevant whether he understands your reasoning or not.

Don't go. And do so graciously.

YADNBU

Anchoress Fri 15-Nov-13 09:53:29

I'm confused. OP, did you ever tell your brother you would not go to a Mexico wedding? And did you ever tell him you couldn't afford Hawaii? Because it doesn't sound from your OP as if you did either. You said you had concerns about Mexico, but implied you would go anyway because it was such a special occasion. And it sounds as if your mother put words in your mouth about the cost of Hawaii being prohibitive, possibly projecting her own preference for a different location...?

It sounds as if he is reacting to things you haven't actually said. Point this out to him, talk to one another, and stop your mother's well- meant but unhelpful intervention!

MostWicked Fri 15-Nov-13 09:54:30

It's his wedding and he is free to choose whatever he wants and can afford.

If you can't afford to go, don't go.

You shouldn't put any pressure on him to do anything differently. He shouldn't put any pressure on you to spend money you can't afford.

phantomnamechanger Fri 15-Nov-13 09:59:48

I will never understand why peoples desire to have an exotic wedding location overrules their desire to be surrounded by their nearest and dearest on that day. A compromise would be an exotic wedding abroad, but the bride and groom paying for just their parents to go too, then a blessing/big party for everyone when they get home. someone elses wedding is never going to be your priority when it is set to cost you £££ that could better be spent on a new car, kids uni fees, paying off the mortgage etc etc - why do these people feel so ENTITLED to dictate how others spend their money???

bleedingheart Fri 15-Nov-13 10:01:46

If he wants to get married in Hawaii he can but he can't demand or expect other people to attend.

This trend for big, expensive, destination weddings is so vulgar and selfish when it puts pressure on other relatives.
Why should you be expected to scrimp and save for a year so you can go to the wedding he has chosen for himself? Sister or not. Spending so much money on one day, when it is a struggle, is ludicrous!

CoolJazz Fri 15-Nov-13 10:07:46

Maybe you didn't 'veto' Mexico, but your 'jokey' comment that 'I have a lot of safety concerns about taking the children to Mexico' made it clear that you weren't keen on the destination, but you would nevertheless less go.

So, your brother goes away feeling his mexico plan has been pissed on by your 'concerns', but at no point did you mention that cost for 4 of you to Mexico or another abroad destination was prohibitive.

So brother thinks, ok Mexico didn't go down well let's keep it in the USA so sister and kids feel safer and go for Hawaii.

Now, Hawaii is too expensive.

So I can see from us point of view that you may seem difficult.

But he obviously hasnt considered the price difference, maybe because you'd given the impression that you'll happily travel for his wedding but would rather it was somewhere safe.

If the price difference really is huge and you could have affordede Mexico but not Hawaii you'll just have to explain this to him.

He'll then probably ask you to come on your own with your mum.

Presumably you will be able to afford this as it'll be cheaper than 4 to Mexico, and you'll have to decide whether it's important enough for you to do this for him, or whether leaving the kids and spending the money only on you going is a step too far.

I think that'll ultimately come down to how close you are and how much you think this is important to him.

If you're not that close, if hes flighty and the marriage is only going to last 5 mins anyway don't go.
If you're very close and he is important to you, and this marriage will be a significant marker within his life forever, then go with your mum.

ProfPlumSpeaking Fri 15-Nov-13 10:09:38

Do I deduce from the OP that your mother and brother live in North America and that you have moved to live in the UK (sorry may be wrong but you mentioned your mum had never left North America)? If so, are you facing a "destination" wedding whatever happens?

Your brother is BU if he expects you to attend regardless of cost, but I am also sure that 2 adults and 2 DC can get to Hawaii and stay for a week for a lot less than £8k if you have a lot of notice and so time to book discount flights.

I always thought that if someone chose an exotic destination then they would send air tickets to those they wanted to attend. I would. Maybe your DB is planning to do that??? If not, then a second celebration on his return is called for which those of you who couldn't make the wedding will attend. Just give him lots of notice of your position and stay firm. He will come round x

badguider Fri 15-Nov-13 10:10:00

I can totally understand why he took your comments about Mexico and decided both you and your mum would prefer Hawaii (assuming you are US citizens then it's not really 'abroad' despite the distance).

You need to decide if the cost is the only thing stopping you going without your dh and los. If it is, get the real cheapest cost and tell him and see if he'll help with the air fare.

You say you're not keen on leaving your los but if your db helped with the cost you only need go for a few days with your dm and it will be good for you to be there.

badguider Fri 15-Nov-13 10:11:09

p.s. I have a friend who conducted a long distance relationship between Arizona and Hawaii for a couple of years and i'm sure they weren't paying that sort of money for flights!

Bambamb Fri 15-Nov-13 10:14:13

YANBU.

DH and I would have loved to have done thisbut tthis is exactly why we didn't. We would never have put that pressure on our nearest and dearest

I just looked up flights from New York to Honolulu for next October and it's $700 per person RT. I don't know where you're flying from but I think your mum is exaggerating. You can also shop around for package deals.

I think you should try to go with your mum. Your kids will be older by then and a long weekend away from them won't seem so difficult. It's your only brother and you would be his only family there.

I know he's being difficult but it seems like the kind of thing that you would decline to do right now for righteous reasons, but in the long run you would look back and regret it.

Perhaps if you let him know you're willing to look into it and will come if you can possibly afford it, he'll meet you halfway and pay for your hotel rooms or something. I guess I just wouldn't dismiss it out of hand, especially if you say he's not usually like this.

BeigeBuffet Fri 15-Nov-13 10:23:32

YANBU

5 out of 6 of my fathers sisters didn't attend my wedding 'because it was too far away'. It was an hours drive.

Hawaii would be amazing if you had the money to afford it but you don't, so you can't go. It's as simple as that.

sublimelime Fri 15-Nov-13 10:27:49

If you can't afford it don't go. Maybe he can arrange to SKYPE you when just got married? ...or at various times throughout the day.

You could celebrate along at home. Toast the bride and groom etc.

I'm in Hawaii at the moment. My flight from the UK (20 hours) was £600. Be a lot less from mainland USA, surely?

gamerchick Fri 15-Nov-13 10:28:23

It's weird expecting people to pay. Those i know who have wanted to get married in far flung places have paid for the entire thing rather than guests shell out.

LtEveDallas Fri 15-Nov-13 10:30:38

I think you should try to go with your mum. Your kids will be older by then and a long weekend away from them won't seem so difficult

I wouldn't fly 8 hours plus for a long weekend, not a chance. But then neither would I spend more than a couple of hundred pounds watching someone else get married - sibling or not.

Destination weddings are all well and good, but only if the people you are inviting have plenty of cash. "Normal" families can't afford to splash a grand on a weekend away, no matter what the occasion.

WaitMonkey Fri 15-Nov-13 10:39:51

YANBU having a destination wedding and then demanding people come is just selfish in the extreme. I feel embarrassed for him.

frumpypigskin Fri 15-Nov-13 10:41:54

If I was you I would seriously research the flights, stay etc and then figure out if there is any way you can afford it.

Also, have a look whether there is any way you can go on your own for a long weekend / week etc.

If not then you can't go.

If you can't go try to be diplomatic about it.

I guess I was thinking extra-long weekend, Thursday to Monday. That seems doable to me but I do fly a lot.

Alexandrite Fri 15-Nov-13 11:06:13

I feel sorry for people who are invited to destination weddings of close family. They have the choice of not getting to go to the wedding of their nearest and dearest which they may feel awful about, perhaps causing offence too, or spending massive amounts of money and perhaps getting into debt. Not a nice choice to have!

JRmumma Fri 15-Nov-13 11:12:29

If you have a wedding which requires air travel and a 'holiday' for the guests then you have to accept that it may just be you and your intended who are there. If its important to you that people are there, then you have to take that into consideration when planning your wedding.

By all means have exactly the wedding you want, but if you WANT people to be there, then you have to plan around that. I don't think anyone should dictate to you the wedding you want, but if its important to you that x goes, then YOU have to ne responsible for ensuring they will be able to go, not them.

It actually makes me angry that people fall out over not being able to afford to attend a wedding. We are in a situation where our name is mud with the couple as we have declined a wedding abroad as im on mat leave, would have a 7 month old (so weaning, possibly crawling, need to sterilise etc), would be a 14hr flight, 40 degree heat and cost us more than the b&g would be paying for a wedding AND honeymoon in one!

Even if i could afford it i think id say no on the principle that it shouldn't cost more to attend a wedding than to throw one!

Chivetalking Fri 15-Nov-13 11:17:07

YANBU.

If you can't afford it, you can't. He is being a twat.

If he wants you all there that much ask him to stick his hand in his own pocket.

BlingBang Fri 15-Nov-13 11:19:13

Depends what is important to him. Guests (family) or location. We initially wanted a European city wedding and would have helped towards the cost for those family members needing help. Was obvious it was very unpopular so although disappointed we got married in our home town in a cheapish venue to please the guests. It wasn't the wedding I wanted and it did take the glow away from it but having the people we cared about there was more important than the location.

Bogeyface Fri 15-Nov-13 11:25:01

Dear Bro

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I think mum may have got the wrong end of the stick!

I am really pleased that you and X have decided where to have your wedding, but unfortunately due to massive cost involved, we wont be able to attend. We simply don't have the money. Of course we would love to come, but it would cost us many thousands of $ that we couldnt dream of being able to afford.

I am sure you will have a wonderful time though smile

Love

If he kicks off after that then disengage, he is being a total arse.

Alexandrite Fri 15-Nov-13 11:28:40

Perfect Bogey

Mim78 Fri 15-Nov-13 11:39:26

Totally groomzilla!

My bro is getting married in Portugal next year. He is paying for everyone's hotel though and flights are quite reasonable... So not the same at all. Also biggest difference is that his finance is Portuguese!

We will have to take dd out of school for a day which tbh is fine. Will have a 5 month old by that time so have said there's a chance Dh will stay home with baby.

I think that's good Bogey, but I think the brother's response will probably be to say, why don't you come on your own? Then she would have to explain that even less than $1000 is too much, she doesn't want to leave her kids, etc, and that sort of weakens the argument a bit.

I'd be more tempted to say that you definitely can't all come, but you will look into whether it's possible for you to come on your own -- you think it's unlikely but you will definitely look into it because you know how important it is to him.

Even if you have no intention of going, I think it's nice to at least make an effort to think about it and look into it. He's probably less upset about you not coming than about it not really being considered.

CoolJazz Fri 15-Nov-13 11:55:08

OP was prepared to fork out and travel to a destination wedding in Mexico, therefore her only objection here can be the difference in cost.

If she didn't want to travel and spend lots at all she needed to day that initially before her brother moved the wedding due to her safety concerns.

Of course if the cost difference is prohibitive then that is that.
But I can understands the brother thinking 'ffs first it was safety now it's cost, your just being difficult.'

OP has muddied the waters with her initial agreement to go to mexico but also expressing concerns about safty.

She therefore gave the impression that
A) she's prepared to spend a lot and travel for his wedding.
B) she'd rather it was somewhere safer.

So DB thinks, Hawaii!!

Therefore the only issue is whether the difference in cost is prohibitive.

Alexandrite Fri 15-Nov-13 12:13:27

Not read all of the thread, but was the op talking about going to mexico before she could have had the chance to look up costs? Or did she talk about going after she'd looked up prices? There's a difference I think

The OP didn't necessarily agree to travel to Mexico. she said that her brother is the only person in the world that she'd consider going there for. It's not the same thing.

And cost considerations aren't just being 'difficult'. Anyone without their head up their own arse will realise that people don't generally have several thousand pounds (or dollars) lying around hoping that other people will spend it for them.

I fail to see how either safety or cost are being difficult. Difficult would be expecting the menu to be designed around your fussy toddler, or complaining that the wedding isn't arranged with your children's nap schedule in mind.

starfishmummy Fri 15-Nov-13 12:24:22

I am only on page 1 so sorry if I am repeating.

The op needs to talk to her brother herself.

So far she has what her mother says she emailed and what her mother says the brother replied. I am not saying the mother is stirring things up but..
Maybe she (mother) doesn't want to go, but that makes her the awkward person. How much easier to say Fix can't go.....

zatyaballerina Fri 15-Nov-13 12:29:13

Look around first to see if that's a typical deal, it's possible that a low budget airline might be providing flights at a fraction of the price your mother found. If you can find an affordable way to get there, fine. If not, don't waste money you don't have!

It's incredibly arrogant and self centered to expect someone who is already struggling and in debt to plunge themselves further into debt to suit you. No reasonable person would expect that of anyone. Groomzilla needs to get over himself, not everyone has thousands to fritter away.

He is the one being difficult and demanding, he sounds like a tantruming child.

CoolJazz Fri 15-Nov-13 12:31:58

Saying you'd be prepared to go for him certainly implies she was prepared to go and she didn't say cost was prohibitive for this only that she was concerned about safety.

Cost and safty issues are not of themselves being difficult. But when you raise one and then when that's accessed raise the other (when it wasn't previously mentioned) you can start to appear as difficult.

Cost should have been mentioned when Mexico was discussed. If Mexico cost was fine, or not mentioned, then onlynthendiffernec in cost for Hawaii is relevant.

How much was Mexico?
How much is Hawaii?

Can you find the difference?

HomeIsWhereTheGinIs Fri 15-Nov-13 12:36:14

I find this kind of thing so irritating but agree with previous posters that your DB will be surprised at how many people will send their regrets when they get the invitation. If his wife was from Hawaii (tradition dictating that marrying in the bride's hometown is the norm) then that'd be one thing, but to pitch a hissy fit and insist that you all spend a fortune on his wedding is really childish. I don't understand why people seem to lose all reason when they start planning their weddings. Why don't people realise that whilst it's an important day in their life, it's not in the lives of others? And that it's not reasonable to demand that their guests waste a week of vacation time and their savings on a holiday somewhere they might not actually want to go given the choice? And I say all of this as someone that had a wedding "abroad" myself - but because one of us had grown up in that different country. We were grateful that so many of our guests chose to make the quick hop to the country we got married in and, in return, we kept the guest list small and paid for as much as we could (meals the day before and after, transport etc). But those that couldn't come were remember, toasted and missed, not bitched about because they (understandably) didn't fancy taking vacation time to a destination of our choosing.

As in all things, surely the idea is to be grateful if someone is kind enough to choose to join you, not to browbeat them into it? Stand your ground. And tell your mother to as well. Neither of you should have to defend your decision.

allmycats Fri 15-Nov-13 12:42:31

Why does the OP not come back to address questions asked
A) if Mexico was Ok cost wise what is the difference in price between
Mexico and Hawaii
B) where is OP located
C) how are the prices she quotes calculated - flights from Uk cost less than she quotes
If she can't pay she just needs to say so

TempusFuckit Fri 15-Nov-13 12:45:54

Because she's asleep? It's 4.45am on the west coast right now, for instance.

maddy68 Fri 15-Nov-13 12:54:15

I don't think the brother is being selfish actually
I think you have agreed to attend an abroad wedding, you were worried about Mexico, he then changed it somewhere more acceptable to you nie you say you can't go!

It is his wedding, he can get married wherever he wants.
Don't fall out over It. say you have underestimated the costs and you won't be able to go

Erm, there's a huge difference between Mexico and Hawaii from NA! Mexico is as abroad from there as Scotland is to England, if I potentially agreed to go to England and was then told I was expected to be in Spain I think I'd be rather annoyed about it actually.

YANBU OP, your brother is being an arse.

But Cool, people don't usually like saying 'oh we don't have the money for that', so they are likely to raise any other objection before that. Only a petulant arsehole would decide someone was being difficult for not being able to afford to go to Hawaii.

Alexandrite Fri 15-Nov-13 13:19:31

She could only have been said to agree to mexico if her brother had told her how much it would have all cost there and then and the op had come back to him after mulling it over at home to say she was coming

Alexandrite Fri 15-Nov-13 13:20:00

said to have agreed

perfectstorm Fri 15-Nov-13 13:23:55

Agree to check the cost - with say JetBlue? But "just over a year away" takes you into Christmas flight prices, and the markup on places like Hawaii at that time of year will be ruinous, even without the accommodation bump. Can you put together the cheapest itinerary you can, then email him with that and set out how much debt you're in and why (as in, maternity leave and not Hermes handbags) and stress that it just cannot be done - you can't afford it, not don't want to go? Because realistically he has to choose between paying for you, accepting you can't be there, or having it closer to home. Another family with kids is an irrelevance because had you the $ you wouldn't mind either. It's the cost that is the killer here.

He's being a brat. Who demands their sister gets into serious debt for their wedding? confused

perfectstorm Fri 15-Nov-13 13:25:57

For those people who can't see much difference between Mexico and Hawaii - Hawaii is bottom left. And Mexico is famously cheap, while Hawaii is, um, not.

I don't think the OP should have to disclose how much debt she's in to her brother or provide any kind of proof or explanation beyond 'we can't afford a trip to hawaii, sorry'.

Bogeyface Fri 15-Nov-13 13:34:35

You can drive to Mexico from NA, Hawaii is in the middle of the Pacific Ocean!

Saying there isnt much difference is like saying that isnt much difference between Wales and the Falkland Islands!

perfectstorm Fri 15-Nov-13 13:47:22

Arbitrary I agree, but she wants an ongoing relationship with her brother, and all too often in families principles make for lonely company. She shouldn't have to compromise her way into debt, absolutely, but an explanation may be her best choice in this situation.

A decent family member will accept, 'we can't afford it' as plenty explanation. Especially as it's not something that would ever be cheap!

FixItUpChappie Fri 15-Nov-13 15:54:32

Hi sorry for being gone so long...I'm in Western Canada - just got up.

I didn't agree to Mexico per se - I did advise directly that we are in very difficult straits financially. I also didn't say we wouldn't do it though so I can see that could be implied agreement.

I have now done some of my own research and my mum doesn't appear to be far off. Our local cheapie air carrier quoted just under $70000CAD for the 4 of us, so about $1200 for just me. We can't fly direct from my city - we have to fly to Vancouver then carry on from there. Canadian flights are always more expensive. I think we could come up with just a flight for me if we put a real effort in - so I'm not ruling that out at all. I really want to be at my brothers wedding. I'm just thinking though that its not like I can buy the tickets next spring - they are going to have to be purchased in advanced so its not really a year to save either.

I am surprised my brother was pissy with my mum so it must be really important to him.

My mum should not have involved us in her email and I told her as such. Now there is drama and I haven't even spoken to my brother yet. He is coming for Christmas - I would have waited and felt things out with him in person.

I do agree my brother should get married wherever he wants - I just need to know that he can understand and accept that it may be out of my reach.

Just for my own pride I must note that I do know that Hawaii is one of the 50 states blush...I was just referring to N. America from a geographic standpoint.

Thanks for the feedback - its nice to vent anyway.

Alexandrite Fri 15-Nov-13 16:03:47

So $1200 CAD is about £710? I wonder how much travel to the airport, to the accom at the other end and accomodation and food would cost.

FixItUpChappie Fri 15-Nov-13 16:17:06

Sorry correction - the cheapest flight I found for just me was nearly $1600 with taxes included. So that would be about 950 pounds

GiveMummyTheWhizzer Fri 15-Nov-13 16:18:30

Bottom line is that if you can't afford it you don't go.

We want to get married abroad, however we completely understand that its our choice to do so and if people cannot afford to attend we will understand.

drudgewithagrudge Fri 15-Nov-13 16:39:13

My DH announced that he was getting married in Thailand to a girl we had only met once.We knew straight away that we couldn't afford it as my DH, his stepfather, had big debts from before we met that we were paying off and neither of us were big earners. DH knew all this already.

We met up with the happy couple and her family, who were all going. I explained that as DH's sister was pregnant and we were hard up it was out of the question and the rest of the evening was very frosty.

A couple of months later we received a postcard from Thailand saying the wedding had taken place and although a couple of his oldet friends went he was hurt that no family attended.

A year later he got in touch to say the marriage had ended and they had gone their separate ways.

Fast forward 2 years and he announced again that he is getting married. When I asked if he and the first wife were divorced yet he told me that the ceremony they had in Thailand wasn't legal over here so no divorce was required. Apparently it was some sort of hippy dippy affair. So we could have gone even deeper in debt to attend a non - wedding to mark the start of a marriage that lasted 10 months,

MarysDressSways Fri 15-Nov-13 17:45:37

Ouch, that's a lot of money even for you alone.

Which island in hawaii are they planning on? You also have to factor in (an admittedly fairly cheap) local flight if it's not on Oahu.

Thants Fri 15-Nov-13 17:51:09

Tell him about your financial situation and ask that he pays for your tickets. Him choosing to have his wedding abroad is not worth you going into debt. As your brother he should care about that and consider his family when booking his wedding! He either pays for you or moves it nearer home.

I'd just tell him that you're sorry that you won't be able to attend if it's in Hawaii, but tell him asap, before official invites are sent out. Ask if there's anyway he can set up an internet link as you'd love to be able to share the day with them as much as is possible. You may find that he hasn't really thought about the difficulty in finding the money for you. I have to spell things out in hours even for DH, so x cost me 20 hours work, or y is the equivalent of 2 months wages etc.

Alexandrite Fri 15-Nov-13 20:24:20

What relation to you was the person who got married drudge? Dh usually means husband.

Mia4 Fri 15-Nov-13 20:45:44

Good luck with your brother OP, best you sort it no then waiting another month to do it all. Hopefully you can sort something out, you may even find he's not as upset as your mum has led you to believe.

I hope your mum hasn't stirred things, I know during a good friend's wedding her aunt passive aggressively and aggressively tried to control and manipulate by using my friend's cousin as 'the one who had difficultly'. My friend went straight to her cousin, the cousin came to the wedding while the aunt was disinvited. Sadly, when it comes to wedding's you find the most surprising people are arseholes- this could be your bro or you may be shocked and find your mum has been inadvertently or purposefully stirring!

Mellowandfruitful Fri 15-Nov-13 20:51:32

It may be 'really important to him', but evidently not that important if he is being so wilfully blind to the financial pressure this puts on his family. My view is that choosing a destination wedding means that you have to have zero expectations of anybody coming, because you have basically chosen the location above all of your guests. Fair enough, your choice, but don't expect them to take the hit for that financially.

Agree with those saying tell him straight away. Anne Dickson's books on assertiveness are good if you think you could do with some help/practice on how to talk about it to him.

nooka Sun 17-Nov-13 04:44:02

FixitUp have you checked with WestJet? When we went to Hawaii last summer they were massively cheaper than any other option, and fly from Vancouver to most of the islands directly. You can only book up to October next year, but I looked at January 2014 prices, and it was about $2,500 for two adults and two children.

Of course there is the additional cost of getting to Vancouver which can seriously bump up the cost (we live in interior BC and would not drive to Vancouver in the winter if we could avoid it) but Hawaii is generally seen as a cheap place to holiday for Western Canadians, so I can see why your brother might have thought it would be OK. The costs (and length of journey) should be fairly comparable with going to Mexico.

Lilacroses Sun 17-Nov-13 04:57:23

Sorry, haven't rtft but this is what I imagine is another YANBU! I would absolutely have to politely decline this invitation straight away if it were me. I'm sorry but there is no way I would get into that much debt for anybody's wedding. I would tell him "I absolutely agree that it's your choice but if you choose to have a wedding far away you cannot expect everyone to attend....we cannot afford it". He is being very selfish.

ProfPlumSpeaking Sun 17-Nov-13 08:59:39

You live in W Canada. Where does your DB live? Where does your DM live?

ywbu if you expected your DB to get married in Canada if he doesn't live there. Just an example. OTOH if he lives 5 miles from you and is proposing nipping to Hawaii for the wedding (tbh I can see the attraction) then he can't expect lots of guests and should be understanding if you can't afford it. He should have another party close to home.

A wedding is the start of decades of marriage. It's not absolutely vital that you are there on Day 1 so try not to let this loom too large as an issue btw. As long as you celebrate it soon afterwards, it will be just as good.

FixItUpChappie Mon 18-Nov-13 04:22:28

Thanks nooka....that is interesting about WestJet - that is where I got my nearly 7000 quote too. I'm going to go back and see what else I can find.

Had a row with my DH. He doesn't want me to go on my own and is resentful because he wants to go to Hawaii too hmm Its not like I don't want to go to Hawaii. All the wanting in the world is not going to deposit the money in our bank account. Now I'm getting it on all sides FGS. My DH emailed my brother and said not to worry we would sort something out. I guess we will talk it through when he comes for Christmas.

My brother, my mum and I all live in Western Canada - its just my brother lives in a neighbouring province a 2 day drive from us.

BadLad Mon 18-Nov-13 04:43:02

It's a lot of money to spend on anyone's wedding, unless money is absolutely not a problem.

Seeing as you say you are "up to your nose hairs" in debt, then it is absolute madness to spend thousands on this wedding. He surely can't expect you to get thousands of dollars into deeper debt for his wedding.

Maybe he doesn't realise your situation. If he does, he's being selfish and an idiot.

madwomanintheatt1c Mon 18-Nov-13 05:14:07

Are you in Calgary, fix? Are you in the Western Canada mn quiche on fb?

In all honestly, I'd probably see the bank and get a loan that would enable us all to go (and be dreaming of my wee tinies in smart outfits on the beach as flower girls/ page boys) and to hell with the cost... But I went back to the UK in September for a wedding and spent the same amount of money (I have three kids). Dd2 was a flower girl and it was probably her only chance - that's what memories are made of, eh?

I'd still panic, and be a little resentful, but I'd do it. What a great way to have a holiday of a lifetime and build family memories for both you and your immediate family, and your bro and his?

If dh is supportive, I'd suck it up and agree - sure it's an expense you could do without, but it's also a fabulously joyful occasion that you can take part in as a family, and can do now without the hassle of taking kids out of school and whatnot. It's only money ;-)

madwomanintheatt1c Mon 18-Nov-13 05:14:52

<still in debt>

HoneyandRum Mon 18-Nov-13 05:35:29

When the OP said North America I don't think she was talking about the USA but the continent. Canada, the USA and Mexico are all in North America.

madwomanintheatt1c Mon 18-Nov-13 06:01:50

I'm getting $724 pp. from Calgary for Sept 14. (I realise this is all guesswork, lol) There are quite a lot of folk that head to Hawaii from these parts. Or Florida <sigh>. I get a week in Devon, natch ;-)

TheDoctrineOfWho Mon 18-Nov-13 06:39:09

Is your DH in denial about your debt, by any chance?

wakeupandsmellthecoffee Mon 18-Nov-13 07:11:22

DVD what is it about grown men acting so petulant.

wakeupandsmellthecoffee Mon 18-Nov-13 07:12:47

FFS what is it about grown men acting so petulant.

ProfPlumSpeaking Mon 18-Nov-13 10:36:49

Ok, so your DB lives relatively close to you (in Canadian terms) but is planning on a wedding in Hawaii. HIBU to expect you to spend the money on that if you would struggle to find it. You need to have a heart to heart telling him how much you would like to be there and how you will help him celebrate back in Canada but that you can't afford to go to Hawaii. HWBU if he held that against you in any way. I understand your DH's point of view - if you are spending all that money then go somewhere as a family. A wedding is just a glorified party. Few people are religious these days and it simply doesn't have the cultural significance it once had. It's a shame to miss a party but, meh, it's much more of a shame to spend money you don't have on something frivolous that you are not particularly looking forward to and that your DH would resent you for doing. Make your decision and stick with it. Don't apologise, don't over explain. Just state. It will all blow over.

perfectstorm Mon 18-Nov-13 23:04:48

I think when you're a family up to your ears in debt and a holiday would cost in the multiple thousands, there's not really any such thing as cheap. Just slightly less ruinous. You'd be borrowing yet more cash you just don't have to go somewhere you'd never have chosen. It simply is not fair for your brother to put you in this position.

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