Who is BU? DS1 or Ex's fiancée? Step-parent related.

(75 Posts)

Have had a fraught weekend thanks to some issues with DS1. I should firstly say that DS1 is an adult (21 nearly 22) with a child of his own, also that I don't have any particular animosity towards his dad. His dad/Ex is not a horrible person, bit of a womaniser and not been that present in DS1s life at times but has been really trying since DGS was born, plus we split up when I was pregnant and I have been with DH ever since so there are no bitter feelings from me. Although I think DS harbours some resentment.

The fiancée, I'll call her T, (also please bear in mind that his dad has been engaged 3 times previously in the past 10 years and so that status holds little weight) has been with Ex for 3 years, they now live together, she comes across as alright and has 2 children of her own, but generally DS meets his dad outside of ex's house so he see's little of this woman. DS didn't attend their engagement party so in total has met T 6 times.

This weekend DS went to his dads house, where T now lives too, to have lunch and watch the football. He took DGS with him. When DS turned up, T answered the door and said "There's our boy", she then asked "How's my grandson?", DS said he decided to just act normally to this. Apparently, as the day continued, she made lots of comments in reference to DS about being their/our/her son, DGS also being hers/theirs/ours and talking about how they could be a nice little family etc. DS said this was really winding him up, but he wasn't commenting on it. She then made a comment about being his step-mum and how she hoped she could be like a second mum to him, DS then explained to her that he already has a mum but that he was pleased she was making his dad happy.

At this point, which I think was just after lunch, an almighty row kicked off. T accused DS of being rude and ungrateful, being coached by me and indoctrinated to hate her, treating her unfairly because he is very open to my DH (been with me since DS1 was born), not wanting their family to succeed and various other scathing comments about me, DS1 and our family. DS countered that she is crazy, deluded, he barely knows her, his dad has to meet him outside of the house so her children aren't upset, she is just one in a long line of women and lots of equally nasty comments about how dare she speak about our family.

I can't work out who is being unreasonable, obviously the row sounds bad but was DS1 being over sensitive, rude and ungrateful or was she being insensitive, over eager and bit unrealistic in how she thought DS would relate to her? I can go into more detail but this is already too long.

WilsonFrickett Mon 11-Nov-13 13:20:13

I think she sounds unhinged, tbh. My own DM calls my DS 'our boy' and stuff like that and it drives me to distraction - and that's my own mum, not a girlfriend of a more-or-less absent parent.

It does sound like maybe some of DS bitterness towards his father spilled into the conversation, which isn't exactly the girlfriend's fault I suppose, but that is what happens when you have not really been present during an adult's life but then try to muscle in on that adult's own child - it brings up a lot of resentment.

So in all, I think your assessment of her is fairly correct, but she probably got landed with XP's share of DS feelings too. I can't say I blame DS for that...

EldritchCleavage Mon 11-Nov-13 13:23:35

I can understand your DS being irritated at a woman he knows very little assuming such a central and intimate status in his life and his son's life, without any prior discussion or even a friendship between them. I could understand if he took that to be a disguised dig at you (which it may well have been).

I suspect that his reaction wasn't all that diplomatic (in the manner it was said-the words weren't rude), but given the things T then said it sounds like a row that was waiting to happen and which he probably couldn't have prevented even with a really placatory response. Given the background, T is probably very insecure about her place in your Ex's life and she wouldn't be the first new(ish) partner to bed herself in by try to be ostentatiously good with the children and grandchildren.

I've no real advice on what to do except that you should say nothing directly, and T and your DS should exchange apologies and take this opportunity to have a polite, candid discussion with your Ex present to see where they all go from here.

Thing is DS has always got on with his dad it's just been rather intermittent contact.

I'm not going to get involved as he is an adult but he came home and was really worked up about. I think if he had been t

EldritchCleavage Mon 11-Nov-13 13:25:48

'trying', not 'try', sorry.

Not blaming your DS by the way-DH had his father's new girlfriend of 5 minutes lecture him on appreciating his 'wonderful' father (ha!) and all being one happy family (double ha!). We were astonished by the cheek of it, so I can well understand how your son will have felt.

Younger I would have gone round and kicked off. He was crying which has really upset me as is rare for him. I think it was just a release as he was so annoyed but still not what I wanted to see.

I've never stopped him seeing ex or ex seeing him. I've probably been a bit too honest about our split but ex hasn't ever made it easy for himself.

I've never had to deal with the issue of a step mother in a long term way as the relationships have always ended. This is the longest one yet and in concerned it's going to cause real upset.

Eldritch she did actually make digs at me, my DH and our family 'unit', and I don't doubt he wasn't diplomatic, he's always been pretty blunt, and he has 3 parents who are pretty active in arguing so I know he didn't hold back.

She called him names and was swearing at him and I know he called her various things, including mentalist harpy and a twisted bitch. He also told her to fuck off in response to her telling him to get the fuck out of her sight.

Ex apparently kept saying he can't get involved, he can't take sides and that "you two are taking it all too serious", before slamming various doors.

LongTailedTit Mon 11-Nov-13 13:48:12

Looking at it from a step-child's point of view (have clocked up three SDs and one SM since I was 8yo) -

She sounds very presumptuous and a bit deluded, an adult child of your partner does not become your step-child, the clue being in the word child!
She is obv v keen to get a cosy family unit set up, no doubt she is aware she is the latest in a bit of a lineup... You can see why she might feel a bit insecure about this and want to cement her position. But, three years in, if your DS hasn't taken to her then he's not likely to. There's a great difference between 'my stepmum' and 'my dad's partner'.

I'm not in touch with my dad anymore, but was very glad his wife never tried to bed any more than that - his wife.
My mum has a partner of about 7 years or so, he is absolutely NOT my stepdad, but is a v nice man and behaves exactly like a grandad to my DS.

These relationships vary greatly, and tbh I think your DS probably is in the right here. Sure he dealt with it badly, but then he's 21! Mature reasoned discussion isn't the strong point of many young men...

She WBU. He reacted naturally.

jacks365 Mon 11-Nov-13 13:49:45

Swbu in her assumption that an adult and father would want her to play the part of a mother and grandmother without having a good relationship first. They do sound like they both were unreasonable in the argument but your son is perfectly within his rights to keep a distance between himself and his child and her.

Makes me wonder how much of a tale your ex has spun to get sympathy in the past

moldingsunbeams Mon 11-Nov-13 13:54:59

I think she sounds unhinged too, she came into his life when he was 19, he has hardly seen her and yet she is trying to be his mum and she has gone off on one when he was unhappy with that?

She was BU not your son imo. Especially because he has had to meet his dad outside of home not to upset the children but is then part of the family and like a son?

Ok thanks for the comments. My parents are still together, as are DH's I don't really know what the norm is as my friends who have separated parents or are divorced themselves don't have similar set-ups.

It is difficult for DS, I think he is upset because he feels like he's argued with his dad. Thing is because of the way the contact has been with ex not always being available or around, I don't think DS has a family bond with him, he says he loves his dad but I don't think he's got that thing that you tend to have with your parents where you can argue with them and then its all ok because its in the context of a close loving relationship. I think his dad is more like a family friend, they get on, they go to the pub or to football etc but they aren't really close. Ds is a lot closer to DH.

EldritchCleavage Mon 11-Nov-13 14:10:23

Ex apparently kept saying he can't get involved, he can't take sides and that "you two are taking it all too serious", before slamming various doors

He sounds cowardly and really useless.

jacks365 you are completely right, I know ex will probably have fed her some bollocks about how he has always seen his son and they have a great relationship.

The man is a total charmer, jack the lad type and I know that she probably feels insecure and he may have been economical with the truth. However I don't think he would have said bad things about me, maybe that I'm a bit mental and harsh but he has always been kind about me to other people and admitted I haven't stopped him seeing his son. We have a decent relationship, or had, we haven't had much contact now DS1 is an adult, but we've always had a bit of banter and a love hate thing.

Although this woman does now seem to think I'm jealous of her being with him and that I want to sabotage their relationship because I'm not happy in my own hmm

Its just all suddenly become so stressful, after 21 years of managing it, I didn't think it would be now causing a problem. DS will not be just moving on from it and I know this is going to drag on and on until theres some kind of resolution I just don't know what it will be.

WilsonFrickett Mon 11-Nov-13 14:13:40

Interesting that X didn't jump in to defend either of them. I bet that's making her feel more insecure than ever. I think she thought that 'playing granny' would cement her position...

EldritchCleavage Mon 11-Nov-13 14:14:59

Your ex doesn't strike me as the kind of man who likes the drama, so T may be shooting herself in the foot here.

Reading that back maybe I'm the deluded one, if we haven't had contact in a few years I suppose he would be more than prepared to throw me under the bus to win over his new woman.

Maybe I should speak to him?

CleverClod Mon 11-Nov-13 14:18:46

She's jealous of your family unit and she's annoyed with your ex h, instead of resolving issues with him she's taking it out on your son.

She's being a total bitch.

Wilson and Eldritch, also right, he hates drama, and yes she probably is feeling more insecure than ever. I don't know whether to be annoyed he didn't take DS side or impressed he didn't take hers.

I know this has caused a row a their house as DS said when he left and was putting DGS in the car he could hear her screaming at his dad in the house.

I think he does care about DS in a way, he's just a shit parent.

oscarwilde Mon 11-Nov-13 14:24:55

Your son is an adult with a child of his own. I would really step back completely and just tell him that he needs to sort it out himself, that T is clearly a bit unhinged/insecure but that you are not bothered about the perspective of a complete stranger.

Let T think whatever she wants, your DS needs to simply say to his father that either she desists from slagging off his mother or he will no longer visit the house, if your Ex wishes to maintain contact, it is up to him.

qazxc Mon 11-Nov-13 14:25:05

She sounds quite unhinged really. even giving her the benefit of the doubt that she was a bit to overeager/nervous at the beginning and being overfamiliar as a result; then starting to have a full blown row because he points out he has a mum and her being nasty about your family is bonkers.
I wouldn't bother in speaking to him or her as i can't see any good coming from it and will probably make her worse

Strumpetron Mon 11-Nov-13 14:27:26

What is it about babies that turn some people into raging idiots?!

I don't think your son was in the wrong, she needed telling and has thus been told. Has Ex had anything to say about it?

WilsonFrickett Mon 11-Nov-13 14:31:07

God, don't speak to him. That will definitely feed the drama llama! Support your DS if he needs it, but Do Not Get Involved.

EldritchCleavage Mon 11-Nov-13 14:34:19

OP, this is where you stand at a safe distance and watch T dig herself further into a hole. All you need do is support and counsel your DS.

I think your right, I'm trying to just let it wash over me. When DS was telling me what she had said there was and still is a part of me that wanted to go round there, rip her weave out her head and wring her neck with it, but I haven't let on to him about that. I've just been saying she's insignificant to me and all I care about is him and his relationship with his dad not her and ex's relationship.

I won't call ex. I will try and take a step back. very hard though. All I can think about today, have done zero work. DS lives here so I'm very aware of whats going on with him, his girlfriend (mother of DGS) phoned me earlier to talk about it because he has been upset and she wasn't sure what to do. My dad who is a worrier, dropped round last night, saw DS and has been texting me about it this morning. Other DC keep asking why he has been so moody. DH will want an update when he comes home. Its just become such an issue, I think because DS is so tense and we're all so tense as its not something that I've ever had to deal with before.

FTRscreamingInTerror Mon 11-Nov-13 14:43:10

My parents split up when I was very young (2or 3) due to my fathers affair, he has now been married to her for over 20 years, she is not nor will she ever be my step mother.
I am no longer in contact with my father.
My DM met a wonderful man when I was around 20, he gave me away at my wedding, he is for all intents and purposes my dad and as such that's what I call him.
However the decision of what to call him was my decision first, I then discussed it with my step brothers to make sure they didn't mind and the broached it with my DPs.
(Sorry bit of a hijack) my point is it should be down to the child regardless of age in what to call the parental figures in their life. You can't force feelings.
I think SWDBU but I do think your DS could have made his point a little more succinctly

Fenton Mon 11-Nov-13 14:46:05

I like the sound of this She then made a comment about being his step-mum and how she hoped she could be like a second mum to him, DS then explained to her that he already has a mum but that he was pleased she was making his dad happy

If that's a true snapshot of how things are I think he sounds like he handles himself very well, and as others have said it's best if you stand well back on this one - as much as it may be hurtful for you from a distance.

If he sees his Dad outside the home then this can continue. There's no need for him to feel any loyalty towards her as a 'mother figure' - his childhood was pretty much over by the time she was on the scene.

I think it's probably more that A BABY IS HERE! and she wants to be involved in that, she is just in desperation to be a part of it, going about it a really really wrong way.

Sorry Fenton, which baby are you referring to? She doesn't have a baby with ex, sorry if I've given that impression.

EldritchCleavage Mon 11-Nov-13 14:53:38

rip her weave out her head and wring her neck with it

This made me laugh!

ShinyBauble Mon 11-Nov-13 15:07:13

I've had this too! My ex had been seeing his GF for about 6 months when she turned up at our sons birthday party and expressed surprise that I'd been invited! Then the two of them sat facing me and delivered what I can only call an appraisal of my parenting skills and a list of constructive advice. She had no children. I found out through friends that they intended to go for sole custody. Shortly afterwards DS was diagnosed with autism and they lost all interest.

At least he's an adult OP, and he can see all this stuff very clearly for himself.

Fenton Mon 11-Nov-13 15:10:37

I mean your Son's child confused

Sorry Fenton I've been doing school run etc, my grandson is actually 4 now, so not really a baby. I probably should have made that clear in the beginning.

And yes Eldritch, I was a tiny bit seething with rage about it! DH did have to death grip me in bed while I whisperingly ranted about my fantasies of weave related injuries I could inflict. Don't know why but an attack on the weave really meets my angry criteria!

TBH I think ex probably expects I will be mightily pissed off about the whole thing and hasn't been in contact for that reason. In the past whenever there has even been a minor issue with DS he would just call me and dump it in my lap so I can only assume that thinking I'm annoyed is why he hasn't been in contact.

Ok need more advice please because now I am actually struggling to not drive across London to punch the pair of them in their fucking faces!!! DS1 has just come in from work, totally foul mood and of course its because he has spoken to his dad today.

Ex has said the following, (without offering an apology or even any sympathy for how yesterday went):

T is very upset and has decided that she cannot be around DS, she also doesn't want him near her children (he is confused by this as he's not ever really even spoken with the children) so he can no longer go to their house and she thinks that ex should stop seeing him every other weekend as they currently do.
T also wants an apology from ME (????!!!!) and DS. She thinks I need to look at how I have raised him!!!!!!!!!! T was apparently so angry she was "going off on one' all night and nearly came round here to 'have it out with me"
T was only trying to be nice and make them a proper family and was apparently going to invite DS and his family for Christmas but won't bother now.
Ex then said he doesn't want to get involved and pick sides (how THE FUCK is that supposed to happen) but that he lives with her and their engaged so he's just got to go along with her because of all the "agg" and was then doing all oh you know what women are like kind of speech about DS cutting him some slack.
Ex finished with the comment that maybe they should just "sack it off" and he would try and see DS in December but if not, hopefully in the new year.

DS is really upset, he's stormed off to the gym in tears and now isn't answering his phone, he kept saying why can't his dad ever just pick him.
I am incandescent, I don't even want to speak to my family about it because I know I will get even more worked up. I don't know how to help the situation and I just feel overwhelmed with guilt and anger.

EldritchCleavage Mon 11-Nov-13 18:37:50

That's absolutely awful. Seems T may have known what she was doing-that Ex would take the line of least resistance and drop his son and grandson.

But still-don't speak to your Ex or T, not least because DS may not want you to, and both of you might be better off sleeping on it rather than reacting in anger.

I feel so much for your DS. There's no disguising that he is not very high on his father's priority list.

ShinyBauble Mon 11-Nov-13 18:45:59

If you say anything it will just carry on the drama. Let her vent at your ex.

I would just say though that you seem dismissive of her as a person in your ex's life. A three year relationship seems fairly steady to me. If you really think she could be dumped and forgotten by next week, then don't worry about it. So much of the post is about her.

But his Dad has let him down by saying he won't see him. That is much worse than anything she has done. Maybe you could encourage your DS to focus on his own little family to distract him for a while. Do his girlfriend and baby live with you too?

FunkyBoldRibena Mon 11-Nov-13 18:55:09

I am a step mum and I think she's a bit of a loon to be honest.

I would sit down with your son and ask him what he wants to do and if he wants you to do anything. I would probably persuade him that the best response is no response at all as she is obviously just a loon.

Hopefully DS will be home soon and we can talk about it more, I am just so angry with ex and myself.

Shiny, I am relatively dismissive of their relationship as its something I've seen so many times before.

Bit of background, ex is someone I've known since I was a child, we went to primary school together, grew up on same estate etc, much like my DH. He was a friend of my DH's brother and is the cousin of one of my very good friends. Its only through her that I have usually been able to track him down in his more absent moments.

In the past 10 years he has had 3 other engagements, on of the relationships lasted four years. He has always admitted, even recently that he's never not cheated in a relationship. He has 2 other children with a woman he saw on and off for 10 years, he has been a shitty to them as to DS and they now all live in majorca and he hasn't seen them in ages too. In the past 21 years I've probably encountered 30 plus women in connection with him, often he's had them on the go at the same time.

He asked T to move in as a sign of commitment after cheating on her, they got engaged for the same reason.

From what DS and my friend say, he is just coasting along in this relationship like all the others, enjoying the rewards until she leaves and he replaces her with someone else within a month or two.

So yes I am dismissive of her, and I suppose DS always has been too, thats probably why he found yesterdays behaviour so annoying.

misskatamari Mon 11-Nov-13 19:04:28

Oh my god your poor son. His dad sounds like a big bloody wimp.

I agree with others that you getting involved is not going to have happy consequences - but I totally understand your want to. T is being completely unreasonable and Ex is behaving like an idiot not standing up to her.

Nothing you say will be able to change that though so just try to be there for your son and help him deal with being utterly let down by his dad again hmm

ShinyBauble Mon 11-Nov-13 19:11:11

But truthfully, that makes me feel a bit sorry for her. It sounds like she's getting treated like shit all around, no wonder she's a bit manic. If he doesn't care about her, why would he stop seeing his son to please her? Maybe like you say, it's one of those situations you have to live, because it doesn't make much sense to me.

It could be the case that she feels under-appreciated (very likely from what you say) and made an effort to try to reach out to your son and build bridges, only to get knocked back. If she did use the wording in your OP, she sounds a bit desperate, but it's your ex who sounds like the villain of the piece.

ShinyBauble Mon 11-Nov-13 19:18:12

Actually OP, I didn't mean for my post to come across as so unsympathetic. Obviously your son is the priority and should be. I hope his Dad grows a pair and calls to apologise.

Thanks Funky, love that name btw, I think thats the issue if DS does nothing he feels like he won't see his dad and I think he's just reached his limit of being a last thought rather than the priority.

I feel really guilty about it all and I want to help him but truly don't know what to do.

Dri2 Mon 11-Nov-13 19:28:33

You all sound like you really like this kind of drama. She was ridiculously overstepping the mark, but was she actually unkind before your DS kicked off? Your anger at the situation can't be helping your son.

Shiny I don't deny ex is a shit, I really don't. However I have no interest in feeling sorry for this woman, her problems are her own, she is over 30 and has her own children, if she is unhappy in her relationship then thats her lookout and not something that should be of concern for my son.

Thing is with ex, and I'm not sticking up for him, but I know him to some degree, I've been in his life and he in mine for 40 years, I was in a relationship with him and he's spent numerous nights on our sofa/in the spare room since we split. He's a prick of boyfriend, in the sense that he cannot keep it in his pants and is totally unreliable. However he's completely upfront about it all, he's basically a loveable rogue, but he would never be violent, or controlling etc I've wondered whether he has some sort of sex addiction.

I don't think he knows how to be a father or in a long term relationship as his own father was never around and his mum just went from violent man to man so has no example.

I am absolutely furious with him and I do pity T or any woman that has the misfortune to get into a relationship with him a it is such a colossal waste of time but in terms of concern for her at this point or excusing her behaviour now I just cannot find it within myself.

ShinyBauble Mon 11-Nov-13 19:37:13

Yeah, of course. It's easy on MN to look at all angles, I've been on the receiving end of posting a problem and feeling frustrated that some MNers seemed fixated on points that felt totally irrelevant to me!

FriskyHenderson Mon 11-Nov-13 19:38:48

Doesn't sound like there's any need to do anything because she's not likely to be around for much longer. She's acting out of the delusion that every woman wants her man can't think why and as you say, what could be more dramatic and point scoring than getting him to choose her over his son?

Your poor DS though sad Is he worried he's going to turn out like him?

Dri2 I resent that comment, I think I've made it clear I'm not enjoying this.

I do have a bit of an issue with my temper but I have been very controlled in that I know I am livid, DH and my parents know, but I have just been 'miffed' to DS and made it clear that its on his behalf, for example he complains and I agree that it is outrageous. I'm keeping a lid on it around him. Please don't mistake my use of mn for venting as a reflection of my real life behaviour.

I certainly don't relish this drama, ex has been the primary cause of drama in my life and I do wish that I could have had a life without him as otherwise my life is very uneventful. This is the first big thing that has kicked off with him in 7 years. Ex is an anything for a quiet life type of bloke so he will just be working on that basis and I am trying to prioritise DS, maybe T is enjoying it but I don't think anyone else is.

Frisky no I don't think DS is worried about that. I think he may worry how the stuff with his dad will leave him, will he have issues etc. DS has grown up with DH and I, he doesn't remember DH not being around, he doesn't remember a time before DS2 was born, he has always had 2 parents and a stable family, he has just also always had this other man who turns up and has a laugh then normally buggers off for another extended period.

DGS was born when DS was in his late teens, he is still with DGS mother, they are planning on moving in together in 2015. He used to drop DGS to nursery every morning and pick him up every evening, he now does as much childcare as he can and spends lots of time with him and his girlfriend so he is already a much better father than his own. I'm not aware of him cheating either so I think he hasn't got the same issues.

SarahAndFuck Mon 11-Nov-13 20:01:31

I would wonder about two things.

Either she was being over friendly because she was trying to hard to make him like her and she wanted to fit in so to speak. Perhaps to make your ex feel she's fitting in with his family and they like her.

Or she was deliberately doing this to wind him up so she could claim she was 'only being friendly' and he had overreacted and been nasty to her. To cause a rift between your DS and his dad.

I don't think in either case your DS was being unreasonable if he did speak to her the way you said he did in your OP. She made him feel uncomfortable and it sounds like he was direct but polite about that.

reelingintheyears Mon 11-Nov-13 20:09:26

I thought it sounded like she was winding your DS up deliberately too, if she's never been that close to him, having only known him since he was an adult, why else would she suddenly come on all Mumsy.
And she can have only known your DGS since he was one years old, not even since born.
I'd stay away, listen to your DS but reassure him that you and you DH will always love him.

Thisisaghostlyeuphemism Mon 11-Nov-13 20:16:31

Your ds is well out of it. The woman is an idiot and your ex is weak and stupid.

I feel sorry for ds but actually I the long run I think they would bring little to his life. V tough to see him hurt like this though.

I would do nothing, tell ds to do nothing. I bet ds dad will be in touch in December as though nothing has happened.

I hope you're right. He does seem keen on having a relationship with his dad. I don't think before this I was aware how much he was bothered. I'm still surprised as they really aren't that close, and I did wonder if DS just did it because he felt obliged to but now it seems he gets something out of it.

It does seem as if its been brewing for a long time. As I said in my OP I suspected DS might have a bit of resentment towards his dad but he clearly has quite a bit in regards to the way he's been treated.

Makes me feel very guilty.

DH has come home and called DS who has said he will come home. He was sitting in Tinseltown apparently hmm

SugarHut Mon 11-Nov-13 20:44:55

Perhaps your DS used some "choice" language to this woman. And that's me being super critical. That's about all you can lay blame at his feet for.

She acted like a dick. He didn't tolerate it. Good grief, if anybody slated my mother like that (rightly or wrongly), I'd take them down before they could breathe.

2rebecca Mon 11-Nov-13 20:57:02

If your son's 21 and has a son and girlfriend he doesn't live with then I'm surprised he's had time to visit his father every other weekend up until now.
I'd maybe encourage him to phone his father some time and discuss his partner's strangely over mumsy behaviour at the weekend, and reminding his father he'd only met her a handful of times and it all seemed odd and OTT.
I would disagree with those who say that if she does marry his father she won't become his stepmother because she will. The name "stepmother" applies to the wife of your father, the name doesn't change depending on how close you are. You do have to get married to become a stepmother thought, there's no such thing as a common law stepmother, although you can choose to call your father's girlfirend stepmum just as you can choose to call friends of your parents "auntie".
If my elderly father marries his girlfriend she will become my stepmother. I will not expect her to do any mothering however. Not sure if my kids would call her grannie. They certainly wouldn't call her grannie unless they got married though.

Thisisaghostlyeuphemism Mon 11-Nov-13 20:58:33

You have nothing to feel guilty about.

I've been with dh since dss was seventeen, dss also has a baby now. I would never say such presumptuous things to dss and if I did lose my mind, dh would stop me. They are being ridiculous. She has met him just a few times and she is arguing that she is his second mum? awful behavior.

I do feel very guilty about it. I know it is ludicrous, but I feel like I've fucked up and given him such a poor excuse as a dad. I also feel guilty that I was part of the topic that set it off, I'm a grown up I can take someone slating me, I feel guilty that DS has got into this because on one level he had loyalty to me and wanted to defend me.

In regards to him having time to see his dad, we live in NE London and ex lives in SE London, they typically just meet in the middle and have a lunch out together with DGS, maybe take him to the park etc if DGS is for some reason not available or there is a match on they sometimes arrange to go to WHL as both, like DH are big spurs fans. DS's girlfriend works on a Saturday so he has plenty of time and often DGS looks forward to it.

Thats another thing DGS is going to be upset at not seeing ex as he has quite an attachment to him. FFS this is making me so cross with ex.

Thisisaghostlyeuphemism Mon 11-Nov-13 21:18:51

Poor ds- his dad has done what it sounds like he's always done- let him down. I hate these 'anything for an easy life types' - they pretend its all peace and harmony but actually he's just a coward.

His gf has decided to shake things up and he hasn't the balls to say no. Your ds can see this clear as day.

TarkaTheOtter Mon 11-Nov-13 21:23:58

Your ex is being a massive shitbag. I still would recommend you staying out of it but being kind to your son and helping him deal with the fact that his father cannot be relied on AT ALL.
T sounds like an absolute nightmare and handled the initial situation appallingly. It needed sensitive handling because of how shit your ex has been in the past and she went in well over the top.

Counsel your son to be emotionally detached from the pair of them. "They're not worth it" etc.
No decent father would choose to not see his child in this situation.

Thanks for your advice Thisisaghost. You're probably right.

It has just all been really upsetting. DS has come home and doesn't even want to watch made in Chelsea or have anything to eat. It looks like it's actually making him ill all this stress. Hopefully there will be some sort of change, if not you may see me in the news having cheerfully murdered the ex!

WilsonFrickett Mon 11-Nov-13 21:34:15

T is making some sort of point. X is an 'anything for a quiet life' sort of guy so is rolling over. Honestly, the best course of action is to help DS understand this is what's going on, mop his tears and help him move forward. And also protect his own son from this sorry excuse of a man. He's abandoned his son before, he clearly has no hesitation in doing it again.

I mentioned this up thread, I suspect having his own child has led your DS to re-examine some of the things from his past and almost replay his own childhood through his son. So this rejection (of him and DGS) will probably hurt a lot more than you would expect it to, if you see what I mean. Poor boy x

(You should still stay out though!)

amyshellfish Mon 11-Nov-13 21:44:54

It sounds like she was trying to make an effort and misread the situation. After your sons reaction I expect she won't bother again. I think he should have been more diplomatic he isn't a child.

FWIW, your DS sounds like a real good egg. He created a bond with his useless father for the sake of his own son- that takes some serious guts (I say this because I have not been able to face doing this)
Well done you on raising such a lovely guy. I really hope a solution comes of this all, but it sounds like he has all he needs with you and your DH anyway. I can imagine it is absolutely devastating seeing him like this but there isn't much you can do- definitely don't get involved.

I agree with what was said upthread- counsel him to be emotionally detached from it all. have no expectations whatsoever and anything else will just wash over him.

My SD has never ever assumed to be "my dad". He has been in my life for 18 of my 22 years- T sounds like an absolute loon. We haven't had the best relationship but since having my DD I am glad that he is around, and he acts the loving Pop.

"I whisperingly ranted about my fantasies of weave related injuries I could inflict." <<<< This made me grin

Wilson, sorry I missed you saying that previously. I hadn't thought of that but maybe that why he's so upset. It's difficult he shuts down emotionally when he's upset.

And thanks Mickey I've always thought he handled his dad well and compassionately I suppose it just such a shame this is his reward.

Amyshellfish you are wrong, he was very diplomatic until she kicked off and made disparaging remarks about him, DH and I.

Of course he isn't a child, he is an adult who behaved like one.

God, I am so worried about this I can't sleep. I have had previous insomnia, its apparently stress induced, can see I'm going to be up all night thinking about this.

I know I shouldn't meddle but I think tomorrow I will talk to my good friend who is cousin of the ex. She knows ex and T quite well now so maybe she can give me an idea of what the next step could be for DS.

I know I need to encourage an emotional detachment and bring DS back to the reality of who he is dealing with but he is clearly so hurt and doesn't seem ready to give up on his dad yet. Before he went to bed tonight he said to me "I just never expected this" with a sad little face <sob> and I think thats the key issue, growing up DS learned very quickly to have low expectations of his dad, but he's been much better in the past few years and I think DS expectations have been raised, he'd forgotten how he was in the past, and now its shocked him that his dad is still that guy.

Also does anyone else think T is trying to get some kind of response from me? She has had ex report to DS that she wants an apology from me, that I need to look at my parenting and a lot of this argument seems to be based around her belief that I am jealous of her relationship and have thus indoctrinated my DS against her. She's basically tried to hint at threatening me by telling ex to tell DS how she was so angry with me she nearyl came round here to have it out with me, I don't think she's dare to be so bold but to make such a comment seems quite aggressive.

Don't know what to think. I suppose if this drags out and more comments are made by me I will have to confront her because it does seem to becoming more apparent she wants my acknowledgement.

Dri2 Tue 12-Nov-13 04:01:32

Ok, so maybe T is the only one enjoying this drama, why is everyone else fanning the flames? Let her be a weirdo drama queen on her own, she doesn't need an audience and surely it will all burn out far quicker without the extra attention. Rise above it

TarkaTheOtter Tue 12-Nov-13 05:51:06

If she wants a reaction even more reason not to give her one.

You need to model the correct response to your son - "sigh, isn't she ridiculous, oh well she won't last long".

Your son needs one of his parents to behave like an adult here and the adult response is to rise above this silly nonsense. Let your son see how strong you are.

perfectstorm Tue 12-Nov-13 06:48:56

I suppose if this drags out and more comments are made by me I will have to confront her because it does seem to becoming more apparent she wants my acknowledgement.

God, if she's that desperate to get into a barney with you all the more reason to steer well clear. I pity her tbh, she doesn't sound a happy or stable woman and a bloke like your ex will trash her, but she isn't your problem. It's just a shame your ex is your DS' but you've done all you can to give him a stable support system, he has a loving family with your side and his own baby and partner, too. He's not some little kid with a stepmother behaving this way - that really is hellish.

The best thing you can do to help your son is detach. Be sympathetic and supportive but focus on talking about all the positives - not in reference to this, just in normal day to day conversation. He has so much more than loads of people do, with you, his stepdad, a sibling, a child and gf. So his dad's an arse? Well, isn't it lucky he's an adult and doesn't have the crazy stepmonster throwing these fits every other weekend while he's stuck staying overnights.

I see why you're so angry and upset, but if you want to help your son, you can do it by letting this go and helping him do the same. His father is totally unreliable - with everyone, it seems. The sooner DS earns to insulate himself and his own son from that, the better for them both. You can't help him do that while focusing on T, who's basically a short term irrelevance, albeit an exceptionally annoying one.

JumpingJackSprat Tue 12-Nov-13 07:14:15

You say you don't enjoy the drama then why are you giving it so much head space. Leave it for your adult son to sort out you can't fight his battles for him.

And you actually don't know what he said to her do you because you weren't there. Chances are he probably said stuff he wasn't proud of as people tend to do in arguments.

allnewtaketwo Tue 12-Nov-13 07:40:58

slightly off topic but why does DS see his father "every other weekend"?

WilsonFrickett Tue 12-Nov-13 09:28:47

Do. Not. Confront. Her.

vj32 Tue 12-Nov-13 10:07:32

Sounds a lot like my Dad. His last live in girlfriend was a complete loon, and made some completely inappropriate comments about family members she had never met and offered me advice about them.

After years of this (and similarly my Dad has been married a few times and had lots of other girlfriends who have appeared and disappeared randomly) I would say to your DS to rise above it. The key thing is to not rely on his Dad and expect that in every situation he will have to be the bigger person even though he is the child not the parent. If his Dad can't see him until the New Year - send Christmas presents and cards, maybe Skype to maintain contact for his DS, or at least offer. Its really sad but some people are not good parents. Some people just don't care about their children in the same way. Its not a personal rejection (although it feels that way), its just his Dad's problem. If he doesn't want to see his son and grandson for a while, or puts his fiance first, that is his loss. Hopefully your son will soon see this is just his Dad's character and not worth getting upset over as nothing will change it. (At the old age of 30 I am just about philosophical about it!)

You just need to be supportive of your son and stay out of it. He needs to work out how to deal with it himself.

I've come into the office this morning which has made things a bit better. I am not perfect and I have never claimed to be, I know that I am a little bit of a loon myself in that I can get very angry about things. Maybe I am giving this too much head space but it is very difficult for me not. My son lives at home still, he's very much part of the family and we are all close, so I know whats going on with him generally anyway, I have seen him come home for the past 2 evenings and he is clearly crushed by whats gone on, he looks unwell and exhausted and he's been crying. Obviously he isn't happy all the time, but my son is not a crier and is known for being a very cheerful happy go lucky type, he is a life and soul of the party type of character. To see him being subdued, crying and sulky is a shock to the system so I really can't help but worry about it.

I spoke to him this morning and what he's saying is that he doesn't remember his dad leaving, he wasn't born at that point so that figures, and that he thinks he never really felt that loss, but now as Wilson said he does feel like he's been abandoned and its hurts a lot because its come at point where he felt they had actually built a relationship and that his son had built a relationship too. He says that he had started to see his dad as a member of his family rather than just this almost family friend like figure who took him out every couple of years and so whereas before he was indifferent to ex coming and going, he now feels totally rejected and very upset that his son has been rejected.

I suppose DS had convinced himself that ex was a parent and a dad to him like DH is, so he had been under the impression that ex loved him and DGS in the way we love them. Its been very upsetting to find out that wasn't the case. I guess its like being dumped in an awful way. I think maybe he just needs to be upset for a bit, he is still talking about wanting a relationship with ex though. I don't want to counsel him against it but I'm not sure how it can happen.

allnewtaketwo I'm not too sure, that is the arrangement they've come up with themselves. Its not set in stone as plans do change, on occasion they meet up in the week or seem to swap it about if something comes up.

Do you think its not enough? I suppose it could be more but they both work and DS has lots of other commitments like DGS, the girlfriend, football and is studying as part of his job.

ElenorRigby Tue 12-Nov-13 13:03:41

My DSD is 11. I've been her life since she was just 3. We get on very very well.
There is no way I would patronise and then attack DSD as T has done.
The woman sounds like an arse. I feel sorry for your son, poor guy.

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