To think that trapping your dp into pregnancy is shocking?

(130 Posts)
annabanana84 Sat 09-Nov-13 13:34:42

I'm having issues with dp at the moment. I'm 29, he's 43 and we've been together over 3 years. We have lived together for all of this time. I have uterine fibroids and have become very broody. I realise that because of my illness and ages of me and dp, time is against us. I've just had my coil out in the view that dp and I can start ttc but he's now retracted and decided we should save up over the course of a year or so before we start ttc. To say I'm bloody disappointed is an understatement. I've been thinking about leaving dp because I'm so desperate for a baby, but we are slowly working through this and I've accepted that I have to wait til dp is ready.

I've confided my problems with a few friends and both of their solutions really shocked me. They both suggested pricking holes into condoms. I could never do that! When I have a baby with dp, I want it to be the right time for both of us! Also, dp would never forgive me if he found out!

janey68 Sat 09-Nov-13 13:37:39

YANBU of course it's shocking. Totally selfish act. Deeply unfair to consider bringing a child into the world when you know the father of that child doesn't want it

MammaTJ Sat 09-Nov-13 13:46:56

As far as your age, you have quite a bit of time yet, and as far as he is concerned, loads of time.

I had my first at 27 and my last at 39.

But, yes, I agree, trapping him into having achild he does not want is very wrong. My ExH did not want any more after DD, and I did think about this. Decided against it. It is hard enough bringing up a child you both want, let alone one only one of you wants.

RandomMess Sat 09-Nov-13 13:47:48

Yep it's wrong, and stupid.

However are you sure that the goalposts aren't going to get changed again? Does your dp really want to have dc?

DziezkoDisco Sat 09-Nov-13 13:52:26

He's 43, how ild does he need to be to be ready hmm

The trapping thing is terrible ( it's how dss was concieved, as his mum reasily admits! The olnly good thing is DSS exsists.)

akachan Sat 09-Nov-13 14:04:08

Pricking holes in condoms isn't going to work anyway. Suggest you get less stupid friends.

PukingCat Sat 09-Nov-13 14:12:00

Considering his age i can't imagine why he would want to wait or think its a good idea. As well as your health issues and how the combination of these two things means you may have real trouble conceiving, then to wait seems a really stupid idea.

Is he stupid op?

Or do you think that actually its a commitment issue and he may be delaying in the hope it never happens at all?

Does he actually understand the fertility issues? I would make sure he does and then make your decision.

toffeesponge Sat 09-Nov-13 14:21:50

Having a baby and being a parent is one of the hardest things you will ever do. Incredibly difficult even with a partner to support you but harder on your own for some people. If the child is born in resentment then the father could find it very difficult to bond with him/her and that just is not fair to the child.

You know your partner. Do you believe him that he wants to save then try and if so, why only thinking that now? You do have more time but another year for him to say no, still need longer than that is another 12 months you aren't available to meet someone who realises that you can't physically save enough money to bring up a child as they are an on-going expense and that when you are ready, you are ready.

Plenty of time we have read on here of men who say not yet, not yet then have a baby within a year with someone new.

Writerwannabe83 Sat 09-Nov-13 14:25:06

I'd be asking if he really wants children - I just can't understand why a man of that age would want to delay things???

Ok, he may have lots of time left speaking form a biological clock angle, but why would he choose to be such an older dad? Why would anyone want a toddler to run round after when they are nearly 50??

I'm currently pregnant with mine and my hubby's first baby and he is 31. It is very unlikely we will have a 2nd child but he said that if we did he would want us to have it by the time he is 35 maximum!!

I don't blame you for having thought about leaving...... hmm

Thumbwitch Sat 09-Nov-13 14:26:52

YANBU to be shocked, it's no way to deal with the situation.

However - will he ever be "ready"? I think there are many people who don't feel ready to have children - if we all waited until we were "ready" there'd be far fewer children in the world! I wasn't ready at 40, but by then I was already pregnant with DS1 so it was a bit tough, really! grin

Think long and hard about your DP and his reluctance - as others have said, it could just be an excuse. He could easily have thought a bit harder about the financial aspect of having a child before you had your coil removed, but oh no, he waited until afterwards - which suggests it's just an excuse.

Might be time to move on anyway - children never do work as cement in a relationship, although some may appear to on the surface - deep down, it isn't right.

WorraLiberty Sat 09-Nov-13 14:28:49

Of course it's shocking...and just plain wrong.

ArtexMonkey Sat 09-Nov-13 14:39:58

Of course it's wrong, I don't think you'll get anyone telling you it isn't.

Otoh, your dp sounds like a commitmentphobic ditherer to me. I split with a similarly dithery partner when I was 29 (i was completely heartbroken btw) but met dh a few months later and had our first dc three weeks before I turned 31. smile when you know what you want you should go for it. To me there's no relationship in the world that could be better than having my dc.

annabanana84 Sat 09-Nov-13 14:44:06

Thank you for your replies. Because two friends in two totally separate situations suggested trapping him, I thought that maybe I was being the one that was unreasonable for feeling such shock at them. If I did get pregnant I would then have to lie yet again about the condom maybe being faulty. It would be a whole barrage of lies and dp and I pride ourselves on the trust we have in our relationship.

FreudiansSlipper Sat 09-Nov-13 14:49:56

of course it is wrong to try and trap anyone you know this

you both really need to be honest amd open about what you want and what your options are but do not wait forever for someone to change their mind when ou know what you want

For him to retract after you had your coil removed strongly suggests to me that he doesn't want to commit, and that babies are not high on his priority list.

I feel that if you wait for a year to save up, he'll find another reason why not to have a baby once that year is up. It's just an excuse.

I would never suggest to anyone to lie and deliberately get pregnant, because as you say, it's all about trust.

But I'd look at my priorities and if having a baby is so important to you, you seriously need to look at whether your DP is the right bloke to have them with.

ApocalypseThen Sat 09-Nov-13 15:01:26

If having a baby is this important to you, it sounds like it could be a deal breaker in your relationship. Personally, I think you're better off finding a relationship with someone who shares your life goals than tricking someone into enduring them.

But I wish you the best, whatever you decide.

toffeesponge Sat 09-Nov-13 15:07:14

I think FryOne has made a good point. Presumably you talked for a long time about trying for a baby before you had your coil removed so was he being totally honest now he has said no, let's wait once it has been removed? If he suddenly felt panicky he should have said. What plans for contraception now?

He is not the only man in the world but you do only get a certain amount of time to have a baby.

Give yourself a secret timetable for how long you are willing to wait and then if no baby then maybe it is new man time. Or have you already agreed to the year? What then if he says no, need longer?

TheRealAmandaClarke Sat 09-Nov-13 15:19:34

Well, it's not a good idea IMHO.
But I don't actually find it shocking tbh.
Has he changed his mind? What's he saving up for? For your mat leave?
Keep talking.

teacherandguideleader Sat 09-Nov-13 15:28:05

I think it is wrong to trap someone.

However, I think you should tell him that you want a baby and if that isn't what he wants then you will walk away (unless you would rather be with your partner child free than have children without him).

I am 29, DP is 40. He wants a baby, I don't right now and have put him off a few times as I have some big changes career wise coming up. If he told me it was now or goodbye I would seriously reconsider my career plans. Maybe your DP just needs a kick up the bum?

SilverApples Sat 09-Nov-13 15:30:22

Considering how many people seem to get pregnant accidently, you may not have to do anything at all. Condoms appear to fail on a regular basis.

SilverApples Sat 09-Nov-13 15:33:43

Oh, and I think being dishonest about your motives to anyone is not good, let alone something as important as a baby.

Sparkleandshine Sat 09-Nov-13 15:38:46

Just one other perspective here, my DH, agreed then changed his mind, agreed then changed his mind, then agreed then changed his mind, all in the space of about a month.... I stopped and started the pill 3 times.

He then agreed to TTC again, at which point i had a rant we had a discussion about how it was the last mind change and now irrevocable and he needed to be sure.... and no more mind changes... grin and that was that. do you think it might be nerves? mind you there's no way I'd wait a year to see...

annabanana84 Sat 09-Nov-13 15:50:32

ThA

annabanana84 Sat 09-Nov-13 16:10:54

ThAK you for all your replies. Before I had the coil out he would talk about how he would love to bring our kids to the caravan we stay at when we have them, things like that.

He's saying that he works all the hours god sends to pay the bills and we just cannot afford a baby. The things like childcare when I go back to work is what he says is the problem. I've cried to him, fallen out with him, threatened to leave etc...nothing. Now I have to wait and see what happens when we supposedly save for a baby. FFS, we. Struggle to save on an ordinary basis and our financial situation, jobs etc aren't about to change. He's dead set against babies and he won't come anywhere near me with his naked dick. He's too scared to shag me even with a condom, we haven't had sex for 3 weeks almost! We used to have sex every other day! We've tried twice. First time because he thought the lube I put on me was a baby making lotion or something and other time we were humping and his bare cock was touching the outside of my bottom and he got all scared and put his underpants back on and carried on trying to hump me. I just burst into tears and went to sleep on the sofa.

WallyBantersJunkBox Sat 09-Nov-13 16:13:59

hmm

annabanana84 Sat 09-Nov-13 16:21:27

What's wrong wally? What's with that face?

Boaty Sat 09-Nov-13 16:30:13

I'm very hmm and shock at this!
DIL came off the pill without telling my DS because she wanted a second child, he didn't, the idiot didn't use condoms because she didn't want him to she got pregnant, a couple of weeks later they had a major bust up over existing problems in their relationship, she threw him out.
So, they have 2 children, under 2, a very acrimonious relationship...but she has got her 2 children! confused
I am trying very hard to be a good MIL grin

Writerwannabe83 Sat 09-Nov-13 16:41:08

Was your son not suspicious when he was asked not to use condoms??? hmm

Gileswithachainsaw Sat 09-Nov-13 16:41:16

I think fry might have a point. He's 43 if he's not ready now when will he be. HE seems to have backed off now it's become a reality. You were in the same financial situation then as you area now and he was prepared to try.

I think he will just keep finding reasons why not to have kids tbh. I think you need to had a serious think about things.

But yanbu it is if course very wrong.

SilverApples Sat 09-Nov-13 16:41:42

Anna, no one should treat you with such little respect and trust. That last post shows him to be a complete arsehole.

annabanana84 Sat 09-Nov-13 17:11:16

Thanks once again for your replies. Maybe I've been more excited about babies than he has but that's because I know we may not have much time because if my uterine fibroids and our ages, well more his age.

I've told him all about my fibroids and what it could mean regarding fertility, I cried my eyes out on him when he said for the final time that we can't have a baby.

Tbh, all I feel like is a maid and cook at home. A baby would bring purpose to that and my whole body is crying
Out for a child of our own. I've waited such a long
Time for one and now we have a lovely home that I have tended to to make it beautiful, I have wonderful
In-laws and I feel, although financially it
Will most certainly be difficult, I have a whole heart full of love to give a baby. I'll make sure it never goes without where love and nurturing is concerned. I just can't wait a year or until P decides we have enough money saved up. What if we haven't saved anything next year, which is highly likely, and then he makes us wait longer?

Boaty Sat 09-Nov-13 17:22:18

She made a great thing about 'trust'! hmm He admits he was foolish to take her at face value, a whole thread on its own, and adores his children but its not an ideal situation and one I would not recommend to anyone!

TartinaTiara Sat 09-Nov-13 17:51:19

YANBU, it's despicable for anyone to trick their partner into becoming a parent. However, it's also despicable to string a partner along with promises that you'll TTC next year, or the year after, or in five years' time, knowing that you may be depriving them of the opportunity to have children.

Fair play to you for refusing to do the former, and only you know if he's capable of doing the latter, or if he's just trying to get you both into the best possible position to have children in a year or so.

It's not clear whether you've had a calm talk about this, and tried to agree what your (both of your) expectations and hopes are, and what timescales you're both willing to agree to. I'd be concerned in your shoes that if he's not willing to consider children at 43, it's possible that he doesn't want children at all.

You don't sound particularly happy in the relationship from your last couple of posts, but I know that something as major as whether to have children can colour how you feel - but if you feel like nothing but a cook and housemaid now, that'll be magnified 100x if you have a baby and he doesn't do his share, so this is really something you need to be agreed on.

HeartVHead Sat 09-Nov-13 17:54:24

Uh, don't read my posts in relationships...

Have a think about what your relationship with this man is actually like, OP. It does sound a bit as though he calls the shots - and he's a lot older than you. He might be the sort of man who likes having young, pretty girlfriends that he can basically be the boss of, and may even be considering dumping you for a newer model.

If you don't feel that he sees you as an equal, or as a person, then bin him anyway and find a nice man to have DC with. Also, if what you really want, most of all, is to have DC then remember that you don't have to have a couple-relationship with a man to do so - sperm banks, adoption etc are available as well, and those are a better idea than persisting in a crappy relationship just for the sake of having children.

Handbagsonnhold Sat 09-Nov-13 18:04:09

Hi Op....sounds like you have enough integrity to ignore you friends ridiculous 'advice' I hope you can talk this through with him. I'm younger than my partner....(slightly)....he was 46 when we had our first and will be 50 when our next arrives. He is fit....healthy....has a fabulous career and just didnt feel ready before. The pressure for men is just not the same as for us I'm afraid....I of course understand your perspective....

Good luck with your pending discussions.... Take care x

Handbagsonnhold Sat 09-Nov-13 18:11:53

Anna I have just re read thread and realised I had missed one of your earlier posts....I certainly wouldn't have written my prev reply had I have read that....I am so sorry you are obviously experiencing a huge lack of understanding on his behalf and to be honest it sounds like you deserve so much more....I hope you manage to sort things out.... sounds like he finds negatives when you clearly have so many positives....if it came down to actually affording a baby I don't think any of us would probably have one!!!!

Huge hugs....hope it works out x

Clargo55 Sat 09-Nov-13 18:21:56

This is your 3rd or 4th thread about this?
I think you should leave him if you ever want children.
He will make you wait until its too late, he doesn't seem to want them at all.

toffeesponge Sat 09-Nov-13 18:50:49

OP - this man is not the man to have children with, seriously.

BTW my mother got pregnant with me to trap my father. It did not work. He left her. She abandoned me.

Look for someone mature to have your family with.

nosleeptillbedtime Sat 09-Nov-13 19:00:50

Bit depressing how many people think 43 is totally ancient here. Me and my dh will be trying again when he is 44 and me 41. As for your age op, fertility only declines very slightly from 35 to 40 in women, despite the popular perception. I don't know about the impact of your medical condition but from your age alone things are fine for a while.
Writer seems to think 50 is nearly dead, but I know new dads who are 50 and doing fine.

Handbagsonnhold Sat 09-Nov-13 19:03:07

NoSleep....you've made me feel better thought it was just me!

HappyMummyOfOne Sat 09-Nov-13 19:04:03

He makes a very wise point, babys need more than love to survive and if things are tight now then how will you find the money for an extra person as well as expensive childcare?

Make a plan, work out what you can save, how you will fund childcare etc and talk about it like adults.

You are quite right not to trap him, very unfair on the man and child and makes for a dispicable human that could do that to others.

Phineyj Sat 09-Nov-13 19:12:15

We have recently had a baby. DH is 46 and it did take him a long time to be ready (but I dithered too).

But age is not the problem here.

You can find someone nicer than this.

Phineyj Sat 09-Nov-13 19:14:12

I am thinking someone I once knew, who said they couldn't afford children, until it was too late to have them. IME no-one who really wants children, does this.

Phineyj Sat 09-Nov-13 19:14:33

Thinking of

TheDoctrineOfWho Sat 09-Nov-13 19:18:41

Saving up for a year will not solve your paying for childcare issues.

Has he a target? Have you both starting putting money into an account? Do you think you will be getting married at some point?

If you are struggling financially now, then in a year, you'll be in the same position.

And from your posts, it sound to me that he doesn't want them at all, just a maid/cook with benefits. I do not believe this chap will willingly have children with you.

inadreamworld Sat 09-Nov-13 19:29:44

I don't think you should trap him into fathering a child but I do think you should dump him and find a man who does want to try for a baby. From your last post I feel that he is really really scared and he may never change his mind. You are young - but with your potential fertility issues you can't afford to waste time.

What are your incomes? Would you be entitled to tax credits?

As another poster asked .... are you (both) actively saving, or just talking about saving?

Just trying to work out if he's right about whether you would struggle to afford a child or not, or if the 'skintness' is just perceived.

FortyDoorsToNowhere Sat 09-Nov-13 19:37:19

If a baby is more important than your relationship you are in the wrong relationship.

trish5000 Sat 09-Nov-13 19:37:37

Not sure if I have read this thread very well tbh.
Are you having an affair with him? Is he currently married?

CanucksoontobeinLondon Sat 09-Nov-13 19:40:50

From your posts, OP, it doesn't sound like he wants a baby at all, and he's willing to fob you off with excuses. In a year's time, there will be some new excuse. I had a good friend whose husband was like that. Kids were a dealbreaker for him, but he didn't have the guts to tell his wife that, because he knew not having them would be a dealbreaker for her. He strung her along for several years with one excuse after another, including the financial excuse.

The "wait a year and then TTC" thing only makes sense if you're anticipating your financial situation radically changing within a year, i.e. if one of you is getting a big promotion, etc.

My friend finally had it out with her husband, he finally admitted he never wanted kids, and they split up. She was already in her mid-thirties by this point, and she ended up having a baby by artificial insemination, because she didn't have a partner and she didn't want to wait any longer. She's now in a relationship with a terrific guy who adores her DS.

My friend's husband wasn't an evil person, he just didn't want kids (some people don't). And he didn't have the moral strength to come clean with his wife, because he wanted to continue the relationship as it was (i.e. childless). It ended up being a far messier split than if he'd been straight with her from the beginning. Yeah, he hung onto his wife for a few more years, but after several years of excuses she was angry.

As to the suggestion made by your friends, OP, it's a very bad idea, as you obviously already know. It's one thing if someone gets pregnant genuinely by accident, but an "oops" pregnancy would make you feel horrendously guilty. I'd say you're better off either looking for a new partner who is willing to have children, or going it alone like my friend did.

Chunderella Sat 09-Nov-13 19:46:02

Nosleep you really can't just say to someone with a medical condition like fibroids that things are fine from their age alone. Because clearly that's not the only factor OP is having to take into account. Of course she's going to worry.

Anna the line 'all I feel like is a maid and cook at home, a baby would bring purpose to that' really worries me. Having a child, for all the wonderful upsides, is really hard. If you feel like a maid now, I can assure you it isn't going to get any better when you're dealing with all the needs of a baby. It's a lot of graft, so it can be wearing even when you have a supportive partner. Having a baby doesn't solve anyone's problems- it just doesn't work like that.

Thumbwitch Sat 09-Nov-13 23:22:09

OP - with your updates I think it might be time to call an end to this relationship - you desperately want a baby, your OH clearly doesn't (no really, he's being as clear as he can be without actually saying "I'd rather cut my dick off than have children") and he's witholding sex. Why? To punish you? Because you had your coil out?

He is not the right man to father your children so please do end it with him and go and find someone who will be happy to be a dad with you.

you need to have it out with him. tell him that you are not going to wait around forever- you cant. if you pride yourselves on being honest with each other then he needs to be honest with you!!!
FWIW, im 22 and dp is 41. our daughter is a year old. some men just arent genuinely ready for a while... (although an accident for us so appreciate that doesnt help).

FutTheShuckUp Sun 10-Nov-13 00:08:46

Wise up op. you have posted about this several times not to mention the fact your dp seems to take you for an idiot. You need to move on

HelloBoys Sun 10-Nov-13 00:26:20

He doesn't want kids. His attitude towards you sexually is appalling and he doesn't trust you re the sex part eg his bare cock.

Tons of men have babies and survive. Sounds like he's putting every obstacle and boundary in your way AND what's worse moving the goalposts.

I really hope you leave him and find proper father material.

annabanana84 Mon 11-Nov-13 09:29:12

Thanks further for your replies.

Yesterday, since having the coil out, we finally had sex. Unfortunately it all felt rather forced and was awful to say the least.

We have not had sex since I had the coil out 2 weeks ago and it usually happens every few days so I was going insane. Unfortunately, from me coming onto him, dp seemed very reluctant. He then said rather scathing 'we don't even have a condom'. I said that we do and produced one, but from the moment it was on him, he was constantly checking that it hadn't rolled down, and after we had done the deed, dp even checked with his fingers in my vagina to see if he had leaked. He was so paranoid. I brought his paranoia up later in the evening and him checking me, and he denied everything. Made me feel like a mad woman!

Also, I ended up breaking down asking him (not for the first time) if he really wanted children. He swore that he did, and that he was working all hours and we couldn't afford one. I pointed out to him that we would probably be in the same predicament next year and he didn't say anything after that. I started crying unconcontrollably and I was saying that I just wanted a baby, over and over. He seemed rather unaffected by this and just carried on laughing at the telly.

I've decided to wait til march next year then broach the subject again. After that if he's still denying
Me a baby, I'll have to consider leaving him. Til then, my heart remains empty and sad.

showtunesgirl Mon 11-Nov-13 09:34:41

I'll spell it out for you OP.

This man does not want children with you.

Thumbwitch Mon 11-Nov-13 09:35:32

I honestly wouldn't wait a second. You were crying in misery, and he was just laughing at the tv??? shockangryhmm

Give him up as a bad job, find somewhere else to live and just leave. Apart from anything else, him denying the whole "checking you for semen leakage" thing is gaslighting and bodes ill. Yet another red flag in other words.

Don't wait, just go.

Gileswithachainsaw Mon 11-Nov-13 10:03:30

You are wasting your time. I'd hoped that you would have realised this.

I think you need help too, your need for a baby is totally for the wrong reasons in this relationship. You sound as if you think it's going to make everything ok. It won't.

Leave now and work on your confidence and your mental well being. You need to sort yourself out before you contemplate relationships and babies.

toffeesponge Mon 11-Nov-13 10:04:46

Bloody hell!

Why the fuck are you waiting until March? He does not want a baby with you, I am sorry. Do you really want sex to be like it was every time until you are pregnant?

And as for checking you internally after sex, that feels just wrong on so many levels.

Even if you manage to get pregnant this man is not a keeper. He didn't care when you cried.

Please get some self esteem, wake up to this is not the man for you and certainly not the man you want for a father for your child.

TheRealAmandaClarke Mon 11-Nov-13 10:10:55

It is possible (although highly unlikely IMO) that he wants to wait so that you can save for a year's mat leave.
We have no way of knowing whether he is being honest about his intentions. Is he usually straight Bout things? With you or others? Or do you see him being manipulative rather in order to avoid confrontation?
Have you ever talked about marriage? Absolutely not necessary for a stable relationship of course, but i just wondered if you might have had similar conversations about that sort of commitment.

I'm very sorry if I am off the mark but from your posts I have the impression that there is a dynamic in your relationship whereby he is in charge and takes care of you. Which feels great when you are his young darling and he makes decisions that take you into account, but not when he and you have different objectives. Your tears are not moving him.
Tbh, even if, in 12 months, he agreed ttc would that be good for you?

Having a baby/ child is demanding in ways that it's not possible to imagine and seriously tests the most supportive relationships with the most enlightened of men. This is assuming you can conceive without intervention. How well would he cope with supporting you through fertility treatment?

I would want some headspace tbh. I think you need to be able to work out for yourself what the impact of having a child would be on your finances so that when you speak to him about it you are able to contribute to the conversation in a constructive way rather than becoming tearful and hoping that his love for you will make him wipe away your tears and give you what you want. I genuinely mean that in a much gentler way than it sounds. brew

Pearlsaplenty Mon 11-Nov-13 10:22:07

Op this is so sad sad

I'm sorry but I don't think he wants children with you at all.

Also he is not a very caring partner to gaslight you and ignore you while crying sad

I think you need to accept that you won't be having children with him and move on.

I do understand how you are feeling to some extent. I wanted children with dp several years before he was ready. By it was different as we were both younger and he had clear reasons for delaying children that I could rationally understand. He didn't just fob me off and change the goal posts every so often.

annabanana84 Mon 11-Nov-13 10:30:04

But I love him. He's so caring at times. He takes me away a lot, takes me out for dinner, he tells me he loves me and cuddles me and texts me to tell me he loves me.

Maybe i'm in the wrong. Maybe I forced myself to think he wanted a child with me, but he did say things like 'ooh it'll be lovely bringing kids on holiday when we have them' and things like that.

Gileswithachainsaw Mon 11-Nov-13 10:35:58

He's not caring he's controlling. He's just making yuk think he's kind and loves u etc. Someone who loved you would not check your vagina ffs.

toffeesponge Mon 11-Nov-13 10:36:12

Caring? When? If someone is lovely a lot of the time in my opinion it is wiped out by something that is intolerable. I certainly would not tolerate being examined by my partner after sex.

Words are cheap - I love you, etc.
Texts are cheap.

Actions tell you everything you need to now.

This man is not for you.

Shallistopnow Mon 11-Nov-13 10:37:44

LTB cos he really is an arsehole. Please have some respect for yourself. If you have a baby that child will have a mother in an abusive relationship. He will only get nastier.

Sallyingforth Mon 11-Nov-13 10:44:07

You want a child.
He does not.
Move on.
Sorry!

Shallistopnow Mon 11-Nov-13 10:44:18

And you can't be that skint if you regularly go away/out for dinner. If anything you'll prob better off with a baby with Tax Credits & Child Benefit. He's talking bollocks.

Cookiepants Mon 11-Nov-13 10:51:49

Ana, it would be U for you to trap him with a baby. It is also wrong for him to trap you into being childless. There is never enough money and never enough time for babies but you make it work. grin

If you're having meals out and weekends away you are NOT skint! Add up a months worth of nights out and you'll see what he's 'working all hours' for.

As for the internal checks after sex WTF shock that is not ok, and I'm not sure what he expected to see tbh. You deserve someone who wants the same life as you and will love and support you. This guy does not seem like the one. Sorry .

WooWooOwl Mon 11-Nov-13 11:00:25

Your DP is doing the right thing and being very responsible by ensuring you don't get pregnant by accident. That shows that he would take his responsibility as a parent seriously, and makes him a much better person than all these people that bring children into the world knowing they can't afford it and will have to struggle along on while claiming benefits.

shock at the posts criticising this man. He is doing the right thing!

Thumbwitch Mon 11-Nov-13 11:06:36

Oh really, Woowoo? You think checking his partner's vagina after sex is the right thing, do you? and then denying he did that? That's ok with you, is it? hmm

CrapBag Mon 11-Nov-13 11:10:01

To answer your OP, yes I think it shocking to trap a man into pregnancy when he doesn't want one.

From reading the rest of the thread sad, he really doesn't want children with you I'm afraid. You said yourself you don't have enough money to save up, so when the end of the year is up, he will then say you haven't saved enough so it will be another delay.

Checking you to see if any spunk had spilt? hmm Lovely! Not.

His attitude to sex is terrible because it shows how much he is terrified of you getting pregnant. This is NOT the actions of a man who wants children.

Very few people are in a position to just afford a baby. People manage and make do, babies don't actually need that much and none of mine have cost anywhere near the amount you read about in the papers, when it says things like a baby costs ££££ in the first year or whatever, plus there are many quality second hand things around.

He is delaying and will continue to delay until he thinks you will give up.

OnIlkelyMoorBahtat Mon 11-Nov-13 11:15:17

OP, the meals out and trips away are a red herring love, because he benefits from them himself... what does he actually do for you? You've already said you're the maid and the cook, and now he's shown you that when you are at your lowest point, crying uncontrollably, all he is interested in is laughing at what he's watching on the tv....

Please OP, do consider ending this relationship. I've yet to hear anything in it that is good for you.

Gileswithachainsaw Mon 11-Nov-13 11:21:37

woo

Doing the right thing would be sitting down and having an adult conversation about what contraception they can use and what they would do if an accident happened.

He's panicking. Control has been taken away from him , she had the coil out. He's scared because he can no longer her his end away like he could before. He has to wear a condom now and he doesn't like it.

WooWooOwl Mon 11-Nov-13 11:25:00

I think checking your partners vagina is a bit pointless unless he can tell with his fingers the difference between semen and normal female lubrication. But I don't think it's wrong or controlling for him to do it.

He's trying to avoid a pregnancy when he feels he cannot provide for a baby.

I'd much rather be with a man like that than one who thinks it's ok to conceive children he can't support financially or emotionally.

I think his morals are much more admirable than those of all the posters on here telling the OP she could have a baby and it will all be fine because she can claim benefits.

WooWooOwl Mon 11-Nov-13 11:26:52

Control has been taken away from him , she had the coil out. He's scared because he can no longer her his end away like he could before. He has to wear a condom now and he doesn't like it.

You say this as if there's something wrong with a man wanting to control whether he fathers children or not, which I honestly don't understand.

Gileswithachainsaw Mon 11-Nov-13 11:27:54

It's not wrong or controlling ??!!

Are you for real?? shock

HelloBoys Mon 11-Nov-13 11:28:26

Woohoo so her partner would be happy if she checked his penis for semen ejaculation/leakage or not?!

I don't think so so why should he check her vagina.

struggling100 Mon 11-Nov-13 11:28:53

I think quite a few men (and women) worry about the financial side of things. House prices are so high, and people's expectations of standards of living are through the ceiling too, which means there are a lot of 'artificial' costs that make having children a much greater financial commitment than it has been for previous generations, without really increasing family happiness.

I wonder if there are ways of showing him how this might work financially, and what you would be prepared to give up to do it (if need be). That might mean not moving to a bigger place, or making do with more inexpensive food, or not going on holiday abroad, etc. etc. etc. Perhaps some figures would make it a bit more 'concrete' for him?

Gileswithachainsaw Mon 11-Nov-13 11:31:20

There's nothing wrong with him wanting to control a pregnancy however his behaviour is indicative of far more. You can get pregnant in the coil too. He was happy enough about sex then. He clearly has more problem with the fact she made a decision about her own body and he has to take responsibility for it now. Most normal men wouldn't care about having to wear a condom.

WooWooOwl Mon 11-Nov-13 11:31:42

Are you Giles?

How else is this guy supposed to prevent an unwanted pregnancy if not by using condoms?

He's not trying to control his partner, he's trying to control whether he has a baby or not. Oddly enough, that's allowed!

jacks365 Mon 11-Nov-13 11:33:08

Woowoo they discussed and agreed ttc so she had the coil removed he then changed his mind but did he go out and buy himself condoms? No. This isn't a man who wants to wait for the right time this is a man who is misleading and mistreating his partner and only cares about himself hence laughing while she's crying.

Op please ltb

Gileswithachainsaw Mon 11-Nov-13 11:34:52

It's not fucking normal to check like that. Condoms are perfectly good I have used them successfully for many years. My dp checks the condom, not me for leakages. My partner also accepts he has to wear them. No fuss, no nervousness , none of what the ops partner does.

Gileswithachainsaw Mon 11-Nov-13 11:37:16

He's also manages quite well for all the years he's been sexually active to not have children. He can't have got to his forties having never used one. Unless he has kids he's hiding then there's no reason for this fear as they have worked up til he got with the op

WooWooOwl Mon 11-Nov-13 11:37:39

I agree that him changing his mind is unfair to the OP, but better that he changes his mind now rather than when a child is conceived.

Women can consent to sex and then change their mind at any point, and rightly so. But would you call a woman that did that controlling, or would you call the man that stuck to the original agreement a rapist?

OP wants to stick to the original agreement, her DP doesn't. That's all. Upsetting for the OP, but as a man loses all rights to whether a child is born once conception happens, I think he's right to play it safe and prevent conception.

If he's the bastard that you think he is, then he's doing the OP a favour.

showtunesgirl Mon 11-Nov-13 11:39:12

Woo how about laughing at her when she's crying? hmm

WooWooOwl Mon 11-Nov-13 11:40:53

She said he was laughing at the telly, not her.

Either way though, yes, that does seem wrong of him. But I wasn't defending him on that, I was defending him over his paranoia about semen leakage.

Gileswithachainsaw Mon 11-Nov-13 11:40:57

Your missing the point woo

Of course he had a right to prevent pregnancy no one has said he doesn't.

It's his behaviour that's disgusting. The way he is being with his partner is the behavior of a man merely trying to prevent a baby.

Thumbwitch Mon 11-Nov-13 11:41:26

"Women can consent to sex and then change their mind at any point, and rightly so. But would you call a woman that did that controlling, or would you call the man that stuck to the original agreement a rapist?"

Fucking hell, Woowoo. They're hardly comparable.

Gileswithachainsaw Mon 11-Nov-13 11:42:21

Is NOT the behaviour

jacks365 Mon 11-Nov-13 11:45:27

Woowoo I agree he has the right to change his mind but his actions are ott and the way he brushes off the op shows a complete lack of respect. Also what's with the not providing his own condoms.

He's not sitting down with her and going through the finances and making proper plans to save etc he is just stalling. If he just doesn't want at all rather than wanting to save first then he needs to tell her and stop messing her about.

MadBusLady Mon 11-Nov-13 11:46:29

OP, this guy's a total dickhead. You should not be content to be treated like this. Forget the baby stuff for a minute - this is a man whose response when you're crying and upset is to carry on laughing at the TV. Why would you want to shackle yourself to someone like this?

He tells you he loves you? Words are cheap. He's figured out all he has to do is give you a bit of soft soap now and then and you'll carry on putting up with him and providing his maid/cook services. He doesn't even want to shag you that much FFS. Get rid and get on with finding a proper man to have children with.

WooWooOwl Mon 11-Nov-13 11:46:59

No, they're not really. One involves creating a whole new life that is completely dependant for the next 18 years, and one isn't.

Gileswithachainsaw Mon 11-Nov-13 11:50:08

The difference in effectiveness is about 1%. He could easily double wrap, and pull out and finish off by hand, or there's the MAP if the unlikely event if a split occurs.

It does not Warrent the sudden paranoia. There has to be more to it can't u see?

IneedAsockamnesty Mon 11-Nov-13 12:00:05

This man does not want a child with you and he's lying about not wanting one.

If you do not leave you will not have a child

Scholes34 Mon 11-Nov-13 12:02:56

OP - If you're really keen to stick with your DP to have children, you need to talk this through more and at 29 you've still time. Having children is a big life changer and it's something you need to go through together.

It's certainly wrong to trap your DP into a pregnancy, as you'll need him on board, and need his support, both emotionally and, for a short time at least, financially for a long way into the future.

Gileswithachainsaw Mon 11-Nov-13 12:19:34

Pregnancy will always be a consequence of sex. People have got pregnant in seemingly impossible situations. Condoms pills and snips combined. God I swear I remember a case of a woman with no Fallopian tubes getting pregnant , on a tv doc.

I can't see how this behaviour can really be about a baby. Especially as up til now I'm assuming condoms worked with other partners just fine although maybe he always lays te contraception at the woman's door which is suspicious in itself

There's more to it. 1% would not change things so dramatically. My guess would be that the reason for her staying has suddenly disappeared and he's having to bluff his way into making her think there's still a chance. God forbid he has to cook and clean himself. He's not being honest because she would leave

RavenRose Mon 11-Nov-13 12:31:02

Op, this is about more than wanting a baby. He treats you like a maid, ignores you when you're upset and carries on laughing at the tv, he checks you after sex? Did you give your consent to this or did he just do it? That is wrong on so many levels. He then denies it happened and makes you think you are going mad?

He is abusive and controlling, pure and simple and he's acting like he is as he can feel that control slipping away due to your desire for a baby. He tells you he loves you, is caring at times. I had one like this. It took me a long time to see him for the abusive arse he was, 10 years it took to see the light before I left. You are worth so much more than this. Please don't wait til March, ending any relationship is hard, even an abusive relationship. However there are many men out there who will love and respect you, who will want to have children with you. This one is not treating you well, you deserve so much better. After I left I met my now dh and we have 2 dds. You can get there too but not with your current one.

NothingMoreScaryThanAHairy Mon 11-Nov-13 12:37:34

Op I'm really sorry you're in this situation.

This man will not have children with you. Honestly.

If you have money to go out for dinner and away on regular holidays you have more than enough for a child! (especially with tax credits etc).

The fact that he is sooooo cautious, is a big flag as is the gaslighting. He will be no nearer to having a child in a years time, and you will have wasted another year of your fertility.

Inertia Mon 11-Nov-13 12:44:55

Yes, 'trapping ' men into having unwanted children is wrong.

So is trapping women in relationships by repeatedly making and breaking promises about having children.

This man will never commit to having children with you. Don't waste your time.

GoshAnneGorilla Mon 11-Nov-13 13:29:57

"Yes, 'trapping ' men into having unwanted children is wrong.

So is trapping women in relationships by repeatedly making and breaking promises about having children."

This is spot on. Take heed OP.

Also, I cannot believe anyone could ever defend someone sticking their fingers into their partner like that. hmm

annabanana84 Mon 11-Nov-13 15:47:38

Thanks further for your replies. The more I think about his approach to sex since I had the coil removed, the more I shudder and feel mad with myself for not standing up more for myself. Especially when he touched my vagina with his finger to see if he had leaked any semen. That made me feel violated and so upset. I may start myself a get-out fund over the next few months then in the new year I will be able to afford to leave. I would love a baby and the more I think about his behaviour, the more I think what a pathetic father he'd make.

MadBusLady Mon 11-Nov-13 15:53:49

Don't beat yourself up. He's a horrible dickhead, it's not your fault that a dickhead happened to you. The important thing is you've seen through him now and you're leaving in time to give yourself a good chance of children with someone nice.

Good luck with your escape fund. And don't be surprised if he senses you detaching a bit and getting more critical of him and starts making lots of promising noises about maybe-next-year.

YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime Mon 11-Nov-13 16:06:44

surely you would check the condom unless you were worried about having gone soft?

could he have concerns about erectile function?

(I agree the checking sounds weird (and wrong) but wonder if there is a simple explanation from his view).

ABitterPIL Mon 11-Nov-13 16:18:10

How would you check that? Surely most women wouldn't be exactly be dry at this point anyway?

<should not put in writing what is in her head>

Gileswithachainsaw Mon 11-Nov-13 16:28:04

Exactly bitter

Serves no purpose but to intimidate and degrade his partner. If an accident happens he will blame her.

He doesn't want her, he just doesn't want anyone else to so he keeps throwing her these meals out and these empty words just to keep her hanging and hoping. I expect be just wants her as his maid.

ana I hope you are serious about this getting out fund I really do. This baby is not going to happen no matter how keen he seems when he finds out you have a bank account he wasn't aware of.

It really really isn't normal I promise you.

wine cake

elskovs Mon 11-Nov-13 16:40:33

Absolutely right, its disgusting.

But loads of desperate women do it. I don't know how they sleep at night.

Poor kids.

FutTheShuckUp Mon 11-Nov-13 18:34:17

OP im unsure why you keep posting about this issue when you simply will not listen.
You say you won't leave because you love him. If that's true for the love of god stop trying to force him to change his mind about children

Don't wait ANY longer. The more you wait, the more promises he will make, and the more your heart will break into tiny pieces. You CAN manage on your own. You are 29. You have your whole life ahead of you, and there are plenty of men out there. I'm afraid I agree with FutTheShuckUp really... if you love him that much then stop trying to force him to change his mind. Then again, if he really loved you, he would be at least considering this.

As for checking you after sex, that's just plain wrong, and disgusting. He sounds like a total arsehole.

TheRealAmandaClarke Mon 11-Nov-13 21:34:55

The "checking" is not nice. Not good.

Also, if he is spending money on regular meals out and breaks away then the financial argument is unconvincing.

TheDoctrineOfWho Mon 11-Nov-13 21:36:59

Would he have sent you off for the MAP if he did leak?

Would you have gone?

OP, how much do you need in your escape fund? Have you bought a house together or anything?

IAlwaysThought Mon 11-Nov-13 21:39:44

I think its a disgusting and immoral thing to do. I judge, big time!

TheRealAmandaClarke Tue 12-Nov-13 09:17:39

I was wondering. Did you have the coil removed to ttc? Or did you tell him that it needed to come out for health reasons?
Are you personally better off without it? Or was it a Mirena, there to deal with the heavy bleeding of rom the fibroids?
What I am getting at is, unless you personally want another iud, then I'd not be having that procedure repeated for his convenience IYSWIM. If condoms suit you, then use condoms.

Is it shocking to trap your DP into pregnancy? Well, I don't find it shocking tbh. But I think it's very stupid as life plans go. Not fair on him and very disadvantageous to you.

He isn't being fair either, but you know that already.

Tulip26 Tue 12-Nov-13 10:26:39

My God this sounds familiar. I had a chemical pregancy last year and my ex was screaming at me the whole time, he even made me cry on my birthday while I was pregnant. After I lost the baby, he wouldn't even give me a hug. After two months of no contact, I confronted him and he said he "didn't want me to get pregnant again."

We'd been together four years, had house, dog, etc. I knew right there and then he'd never come round to us actually having a future together, it was always "we'll talk about it in six months." I had three years of "we'll talk about marriage, kids, etc in six months." I left him and our lovely home behind. I'm still 'starting again' with a new home, new man, new life but I'm going forwards, not backwards.

Leave him, he will never come round.

ArtexMonkey Tue 12-Nov-13 13:45:47

Oh dear op. i have read your other posts. Forgive me for this, but your 'd'p sounds like an utter twat. He does no housework, won't pick you up from work, cooks you meat and fish when you are vegan and strops when you point this out... You are a lot younger than him, your mum is toxic, you say you are quite obese - has he got you convinced that you can't do any better than him? He sounds like a classic controlling arsehole of a man, i think even if he changed his mind about ttc tomorrow, having children with him would be complete insanity. I am so very sorry.

HelloBoys Tue 12-Nov-13 14:37:37

Artex - I read OP's other posts too and though it sounds like her DP is an utter twat it also sounds like she is trying to fill a void by having a baby - with an unsuitable person.

with the fibroids etc she's not even sure if she CAN conceive.

But I think she can do better generally - maybe counselling would help first off re the toxic mother and so she can find a nice man who can treat her well.

mitchsta Wed 13-Nov-13 18:01:15

YANBU - one reason why the male pill should become widely available. I've heard people say they'd never trust/rely on their man to take it regularly, but I see a market for blokes who want to be in control of their contraception and 'double-up' even when their OH is using another method. Trapping your DP into pregnancy is just so wrong.

However, the saving up for a year thing will never wash with me, because that first year in a baby's life will arguably be its cheapest. Yes there are cots and prams to buy, but babies do not demand designer labels and iPads - and the childcare fees you save when your LO goes from nursery to school will be sucked up in some other way, so a 5-yo won't cost less than a 3-yo. Delaying things for a year won't have much of an impact in the grand scheme of things - your baby will drain every penny you have cost money as it becomes a child...teenager...student, etc.

Of course you shouldn't have kids until you're both ready, but "waiting a year" sounds like a bit of a cop out if you ask me. FWIW, I think you should have a serious think about what you want. If you feel like a maid now you'll feel a million times worse with a baby. Your OH sounds like a selfish prick and I'd focus on getting away from him rather than settling down with him.

pinkyredrose Wed 13-Nov-13 19:14:39

He's leading you on OP. I've read some of your other threads, this guy is not right for you. You're also on the baby names forum asking opinions on various names, it seems like having a baby is your number one 'must do' thing in your life.

Are you hoping that eventually he'll want a baby with you? You should give yourself some space from him mentally and physically. Have a good think about what you want, ie. a baby or a baby with him? If he's this flaky now what kind of father do you think he'll be?

Be kind to yourself. You have plenty of time to meet someone else who wants the same things as you do in life.

HazleNutt Wed 13-Nov-13 20:05:09

I also took a look at your other threads. Please do not have children with this man! He is a massively selfish twat who does not care about you one bit. Says he loves you? I can say that moon is made of cheese, does not make it true.

Children test even the strongest relationships and you would probably end up with a nervous breakdown with a small baby to take care of and a partner who does not lift a finger to help you or make your life any easier.

Oh and no, he does not want to have children. He won't in a year either. You are still young, get out and go find a man who does. And who actually loves you.

nameChangedRiteNow Wed 13-Nov-13 20:54:24

This happened to me except it was 6 years into my relationship when the old 'one day' changed to 'I don't want kids' for him.
I still hate him now and for a long time I wished I'd just trapped him too, everyone around me who had kids the proper way seemed to be breaking up anyway and my single parent friends where way happier than me even before my relationship had ended.
In the end I had a baby with my gay friend, I was i'm my 30's and didn't trust any man I met after that crap ex, to not mess me around and waste more of my fertile years telling me 'one day'
It's cruel to jeopardize someones chances of having the family they crave, and waste the time they could be spending meeting the father of their kids, the older you get the slimmer the pickings.
I'm not sure that what your friends are suggesting is worse than what he is doing, I would be tempted.
If you can't accept your life without children either leave him now and start looking or use him as a sperm donor. He doesn't want children EVER.

Thumbwitch Wed 13-Nov-13 22:55:23

One cast iron reason not to trap an unwilling bloke into having a baby - if you then split up and he decides he is going to want access, he will STILL be a massive twat, and your baby is going to be spending time alone with him. Plus, if he's that much of a controlling twat, he will then USE your child against you, again and again and again. And you can't ever get rid of him.

So - since you, OP, are with a massively controlling twat who doesn't really want children, the LAST thing you want to do is to expose a baby/child to this person as a single parent. It's NOT WORTH IT.

IAlwaysThought Wed 13-Nov-13 23:52:28

Good post ThumbWitch Exactly! Why would you lumber you kids with a twatty Dad.

caruthers Thu 14-Nov-13 00:24:17

Trapping someone into being a father is vile....don't do it it's the lowest of the low.

TheRealAmandaClarke Thu 14-Nov-13 05:16:24

What Thumwitch said. Absolutely.

LovesBeingHereAgain Thu 14-Nov-13 05:32:08

I would love a baby and the more I think about his behaviour, the more I think what a pathetic father he'd make.

please take steps to make sure you do not get pregnant if this is now how you view him

mewmeow Thu 14-Nov-13 07:19:31

Yanbu. It really wouldn't be a great start to life for anyone would it? And you would have to live with it your whole life sad
Do understand your desperation though, I suppose your mates only have your interests at heart but haven't thought it through. I'm sure you'd all end up much happier to wait until you're both ready. Good luck!

Tulip26 Thu 14-Nov-13 07:22:22

I think even if you do trap him or it happens by accident, he'll accuse you of it anyway.

Inertia Fri 15-Nov-13 06:58:27

Thumbwitch makes a very important point. A man who controls his partner by dangling the possibility of children and then going back on his word will rejoice in the possibility of using a child to control you - he would mess you around in terms of money and access arrangements ; worst of all he would mess the child around.

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