to wonder how good heroin must feel

(379 Posts)
complexnumber Thu 07-Nov-13 19:26:12

I've tried lots of recreational drugs over the years, but never heroin
But what is it about the 'hit' heroin gives you that makes you want it again... and again...

HappyAsASandboy Thu 07-Nov-13 19:27:39

I have no idea! But I understand your curiosity. I'd love to try it just once, but heed the warnings that it might not be possible to try it just once ....

Strumpetron Thu 07-Nov-13 19:28:44

Well I've had morphine and it's fucking amazing so I can understand why people get addicted to heroine. You just wouldn't do it full stop though because we all know full well what it does to you

Mim78 Thu 07-Nov-13 19:28:46

Not unreasonable to wonder.

However, please don't try it!

I think whatever feels wonderful about it the first time you try is different to what makes people go back again and again. People can't stop taking it because it's addictive. I think this is separate to/additional to whatever feels wonderful about it, but then again I don't absolutely know this.

MorrisZapp Thu 07-Nov-13 19:29:59

I'd love to know too.

Mymumsfurcoat Thu 07-Nov-13 19:30:00

It was bloody good when I was having DD1. DD2 came too fast, I was gutted grin

Cookiepants Thu 07-Nov-13 19:30:14

Heroin is street morphine. I have had morphine ....... You feel warm and safe and even though you are in control your troubles (and back pain) are far far away, I can see it would be all too easy to get caught up and by the time you realised you had a problem it would be too late.

YerDaftApeth Thu 07-Nov-13 19:30:43

I've no idea and I've never taken any recreational drugs. But I was prescribed codeine after my c-section and can quite easily see how it can become addictive as it gave me a high, spaced out feeling that was quite pleasant. I can see how someone could become addicted to that. I only had them for a few days.

MadBusLady Thu 07-Nov-13 19:30:53

I've sometimes thought that if I was given x months to live, and it was definitely terminal so not worth treating but wasn't going to be immediately debilitating, I'd spend the period I was still well and upright taking as many hard drugs as possible.

<cheerful>

I think it is more complex than that. I have worked with addicts and they talk about 'coming home' and similar phrases when they first tried their drug of choice. Insecure people love cocaine, people with unresolved pain/abuse love heroin. Because it is a painkiller. If you aren't in that place, you might just feel high, fuzzy and nauseous.

KungFuBustle Thu 07-Nov-13 19:32:05

Like getting into a clean fresh bed after being awake and on your feet or 3 days straight, apparently.

xCupidStuntx Thu 07-Nov-13 19:32:28

When my mam was diagnosed with terminal cancer she told me she'd love to try it right at the end shock
The cancer ravaged her way to quickly though and I don't think she'd actually have through with it!!

Mymumsfurcoat Thu 07-Nov-13 19:33:49

Before the 1974 Misuse of Drugs Act, lots of people were prescribed morphine and were technically, heroin addicts. On the whole, they were functioning members of society. There is an argument that says its not the drug itself that is destructive, but the lifestyle of criminality it leads you into. Having said that, I wouldn't myself, I prefer Pinot!

MadBusLady Thu 07-Nov-13 19:33:59

That's very interesting MrsTerry. Hm, maybe heroin is not my thing then. I wonder why Lou Reed did it? Don't know much about him.

YouTheCat Thu 07-Nov-13 19:34:02

I had morphine. It did nothing for me at all. Didn't even make a difference to the pain.

I have no desire to try heroin. I've seen the addicts getting their methodone at 4.30 every day. One of dd's old friends from school is addicted to heroin - such a waste. I also lived with a heroin addict and it was bloody awful.

runningonwillpower Thu 07-Nov-13 19:34:24

I think it would be like the ecstatic rush you get just after giving birth. The synthetic equivalent of that natural hormonal fix.

You know. The rush that makes you forget what went before. The rush that nature supplies to bond with your baby. The rush that lets you put it all behind you and have another baby.

That's just my theory.

complexnumber Thu 07-Nov-13 19:34:25

I am reminded of the advert for the film Trainspotting, and the quote from the film

Take the best orgasm you've ever had... multiply it by a thousand, and you're still nowhere near it.

qazxc Thu 07-Nov-13 19:35:16

according to an ex boyfriend it wasn't so much a high but the fact that it made you not care about things. it switches your feelings off, so if you're in a bad head space it makes it (temporarily) "go away" IYSWIM. Obviously to some people it would be very attractive, the problem is that your problems do not go away, they come back when the drugs wear off (and after a few times there is withdrawal/ drug habit to add to them).

tracypenisbeaker Thu 07-Nov-13 19:35:19

According to Trainspotting, it 'beats any fuckin' cock in the world.'

HTH grin

(But seriously, don't try it)

MadBusLady Thu 07-Nov-13 19:35:49

That's also basically what the song Heroin sounds like. Good sex song blush

EmmaBemma Thu 07-Nov-13 19:35:56

I'd love to try it! If I could be sure wasn't cut with drain cleaner/anthrax and I didn't have to buy it off some dodgy dealer, and I didn't have to inject it, and if I could somehow magically not be a parent for a couple of days. So: unlikely, but yes - I imagine it's marvellous. More-ish, though, as the joke goes.

eisbaer Thu 07-Nov-13 19:35:59

Not unreasonable atall IMO, I often wonder it and google descriptions of how it feels etc. maybe because it was the final taboo for lots of 1990-2000's party animals, the one thing they never touched because of the grange hill just say no campaign/Zammo etc. Also, it must be pretty amazing as junkies mainly go about looking like death warmed up and don't seem to give a hoot. But most destructive too.

tracypenisbeaker Thu 07-Nov-13 19:36:38

aw bit of a x-post there with you, complex.

Shockingundercrackers Thu 07-Nov-13 19:37:23

It's the same as pethadine, no? Had that bringing forth ds1. Fabulous stuff! I could still feel the contractions, but they sort of felt far away... Oooh I could get used to that. Never got so much as a paracetamol with ds2 (death stares hospital... Tight bastards).shock

HandMini Thu 07-Nov-13 19:38:07

I've had morphine in hospital and although it was a great painkiller I didn't feel particularly high / safe / warm / fluffy /spaced. I just felt like "thank Christ my boob has stopped hurting so much". I don't think I'm curious to find out....I think there are lots of amazing highs in life. To me, stepping into fresh bed after hard day and that kind of thing is a real physical buzz. It's enough. I guess I'm not an extremist.

Geckos48 Thu 07-Nov-13 19:38:25

I always wondered this too and then when I was in labour with my still born they said 'would you like some diamorphine!' Diamorphine is heroin and I was so pleased! My husband was very jealous, always said we would try it together in retirement.

It's nice, a bit like a smacky pill makes your jaw go like you won't believe and very, very pleasant,

tracypenisbeaker Thu 07-Nov-13 19:38:59

I would try it if it was my last day ever.

Strumpetron Thu 07-Nov-13 19:39:38

I had morphine. It did nothing for me at all. Didn't even make a difference to the pain Was it intravenous or the liquid, or tablets? I found only the stuff straight into my vein worked.

It's like being on a cloud. Wrapped up all snug and safe. A lovely feeling.

Geckos48 Thu 07-Nov-13 19:39:44

Not the same as perthadine. Much more natural a high, perthadine is like diamorphine like tramadol is like dihydracodine. Very different drugs.

Lonecatwithkitten Thu 07-Nov-13 19:41:00

Of course for some people the trip is awful. Any opioids, but morphine in particular has me vomiting my guts up, weeping as a vomit so much so that I am actually an opioid refuser now and would rather have the pain thanks.

tracypenisbeaker Thu 07-Nov-13 19:41:59

So how come people who have diamorphine and that in childbirth don't get addicted? Surely there's a risk that people would want to go out and score it after feeling how nice it is.

I might just be naive, someone will probably enlighten me blush

ElleBelly Thu 07-Nov-13 19:42:26

I've dabbled in the odd soft drug but not the scary ones, so a slight curiosity from me too. I've had codeine and found it delightfully fuzzy so I imagine heroin is that x100.

complexnumber Thu 07-Nov-13 19:44:14

I'm not at all tempted to try it, just wondering.

I did try acid a couple of times many years ago, tbh , I loved it.

But that was a long time ago. I'm certainly not going to be mucking about with Class A drugs anymore.

I was just wondering how good is the experience

WholeNutt Thu 07-Nov-13 19:44:34

I was given a shitload of morphine a few weeks ago..did bugger all I was still in agony then violently sick..heroin isn't for me I guess!!

Mim78 Thu 07-Nov-13 19:44:34

I don't think it is the same as pethadine. You do get diamorphine (which is the technical name for herion) in labour though - I had this but I must say I didn't notice any difference.

Off on a tangent - the best thing I've ever had was gas and air. You could float of on a brilliant high and then come back immediately with no ill effects - totally back to normal immediately. Loved that -not like alcohol where, if you have a drink at lunchtime for instance you feel like crap for rest of the day (happens to me with only one drink - may not be the same for others!).

eisbaer Thu 07-Nov-13 19:45:19

Just thinking - am due DC4 in December. What if I marched in and said, in the manner some do for an epidural "I am now ready for my diamorphine thanks, no gas and air or epidural, just the skag"

RagamuffinAndFidget Thu 07-Nov-13 19:45:49

My DH tried heroin once years ago and he said it was crap. He was always more of a pills & weed kinda guy though so maybe it just didn't do the right things for him..

MrsTP 'coming home' describes it very well. I used to be addicted to speed and those are the words I would use to describe how I felt about it. I could probably take any other drug just once and never again but if I did speed one more time I'd be hooked again.

I realise my post makes DH and myself sound fairly awful - we're both clean now and have been for years!

I found with morphine it doesn't take the pain away, it takes you away from the pain. Its like being a better you looking in, I can definitely see why people get addicted.

However I have seen what heroin addiction does to people and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

MadBusLady Thu 07-Nov-13 19:47:28

tracy maybe the sleep deprivation and being covered in poo forms a natural control grin. Also I guess it will be given in a very controlled dose sufficient to deal with the pain rather than blow your mind.

I had temazepan (sp?) at the dentist for my wisdom tooth and that was fucking amazing. I am definitely a lightweight though (for drugs anyway).

out2lunch Thu 07-Nov-13 19:47:36

I must have read this somewhere........your first hit of heroin is far and away the best - after that you are simply trying to recreate that feeling,before long you are addicted which is horrible.the great feeling really doesn't last long.

Brices Thu 07-Nov-13 19:47:45

Like being wrapped in cotton wool, no edges, no cares just floating and high. Alright as things go I suppose but you wouldn't want to live like this. Unless of course life is so painful...
The one I personally wouldn't touch is crack. Interesting we'll all have different ideas to risk of addiction and drug use. I've met people frightened of taking nurofen.

HandMini Thu 07-Nov-13 19:47:45

So how come people who have diamorphine and that in childbirth don't get addicted?

I think two reasons - it's a very controlled dose, to try to remove pain but not intended to get you high (tho clearly for some it does) and childbirth is an extremely intense physical and emotional experience for most, so I don't reckon you can totally discern between the childbirth endorphins/highs and the drugs...it's not something you can try (or even really want to) replicate other than by giving birth again.

Don't know if that makes sense to others?

SigmundFraude Thu 07-Nov-13 19:49:02

Heroin is dirty morphine. Morphine is the most amazing drug ever, made me feel like I was cocooned in a pain free womb or floating on a warm cloud with the suns gentle rays beating down on me. I could hear the hospital staff buzzing around me, but it was like I was somewhere else, not affected by anything, just safe, nothing mattered.

I was given a clicker thing to administer morphine when I needed it intravenously, after my CS. They removed it because I was abusing it, apparently, can't remember grin

If I had access to medical morphine I would be an addict. If I tried heroin I would be an addict. So it's a very good job that I don't have access to medical morphine, and am too terrified to try heroin (acquaintances have OD'd).

dashoflime Thu 07-Nov-13 19:53:00

I also used to wonder this. Then I had morphine in hospital and it was a bit of a let down. Very effective painkiller but it made my mind go off on weird tangents and I felt out of control and unhappy. I would have preferred valium

ImaginativeNewName Thu 07-Nov-13 19:54:06

The world made complete sense to me on just gas and air, it was wonderful. I asked DH if we could get some for the house. grin

I think that means I'm a drugs lightweight and should probably stay away from heroin.

ZooTimeIsSheAndYouTime Thu 07-Nov-13 19:54:19

My mum took morphine for chronic back pain and it made her terribly (and unchararacteristically) depressed. She was in a very bad way with it at one stagesad

DifferenceEngine Thu 07-Nov-13 19:55:37

That's a great description of morphine whats

I had morphine after surgery and I get regular prescriptions of weaker opiates for unrelated pain. I seriously love the feeling I get when I take them. Which is why I don't take them very often. But when I'm crushingly tired and stressed from constant pin during a flare up, I can take one and just step aside from the pain. It's still there, but I don't mind it so much.

I strongly suspect I'm highly susceptible to opiates and if I took heroin I'd get a massive and amazing high, followed by instant addiction.

Having said all that..... I rate reliable painkillers and anasthetics as one of the great inventions of modern times.

Geckos48 Thu 07-Nov-13 19:56:22

Heroin is just a trade name for diamorphine.

Like the trade name for sertraline is Zoloft.

There is no difference between the two.

Theas18 Thu 07-Nov-13 19:57:54

I had a lovely -almost a minute of fentanyl high whilst being anaesthetised - daft doc gave the opiate then dropped the anaesthetic drug on the floor so I floated all pleasantly cosy and free of anxiety for my coming op till he drew up more.

Actually that was a really nice anaesthetic all together , maybe it was cos it was on Bupa lol!

Didn't realise though that your taste buds get anaesthetised for much longer than the rest if you. My smoked salmon sarnie (go Bupa) and lemon meringue ice cream tasted of nothing at all!

chicaguapa Thu 07-Nov-13 19:58:02

How funny! I've also expressed the intention to do heroin if I had a terminal illness as I'd like to see what it was like. I don't even drink, let alone have done any drugs, so people look at me like this shock and confused. So I'm glad I'm not the only one.

I've also heard that it's only good the first time and that you are just trying to recreate that but using more and more each time.

I also read a crime book recently that said your body processes it differently if you're in different surroundings, which is why people sometimes accidentally OD. As their body can take a large hit at home, but when they try to administer the same amount somewhere else, their body can't take it all and it mills them.

Sad for all the addicted people out there. sad

I had morphine after spinal surgery. I hated it!! I had the most terrifying, hideous dreams/hallucinations ever, it was 8 years ago and still fresh in my mind. When I needed surgery again I refused morphine and put up with the pain. Even thinking about it now makes me feel weird!

ImaginativeNewName Thu 07-Nov-13 19:58:54

I actually think I got a high off a Beechams "night" tablet once. I felt so marvellous and floaty. grin

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 07-Nov-13 19:59:58

As a former addict, out2lunch has got it spot on.

DanglingChillis Thu 07-Nov-13 20:00:14

Lots of doctors are addicted to morphine apparently. A friend says it's a wonder drug (from the prescribing viewpoint), so good at dealing with pain with very few side effects.

I had pethidine with DD1 and hated it, it did nothing but make me feel too drunk and ill and out of control. Gas and air I could happily have a cannister at home to abuse, loved it, it was that lovely glass of wine level of relaxed (I'm a lightweight). Was most disappointed that DS came so quick I only got a couple of puffs (with DD2 I had so much I lost the feeling in my cheeks).

CharlotteBronteSaurus Thu 07-Nov-13 20:01:13

i had diamorphine when in labour with dd2, and realised I had found the drug for me.
it was ace. not a buzz as such, just a lovely warm fuzzy feeling, no lack of control or feeling out of it (like you get with with acid gas and air), and a feeling that even though the pain was still there, it just didn't matter anymore.

Utterly peaceful. Cozy, safe, you could be sat in a sea of shit and you wouldn't care at all. Like watching the world through bullet proof glass, nothing can hurt you, but you can't quite reach anything through it si you don't bother.

My teenage years were unfortunate in some ways, luckily I never became addicted to anything I took. I have lost 3 friends to heroin od's, the first was enough for me to never take anything stronger than weed again. It's lovely stuff, but an absolute fucking waste of someones life.

imip Thu 07-Nov-13 20:02:38

I've had morphine a few times after surgery. As above, it is a very controlled dose, made me feel good and sleepy.

I was offered 'heroin' by an ob while labouring with my daughter who had just died from a cord prolapse. Refused as I wanted to remember the experience, didnt want to have my consciousness affected.

In my youth, I used to take smacky or speedy pills. With a smacky pill I wanted hard core trance music, nice housy music with sleepy pills.

While having a cervical stitch inserted, I was given ketamine by the surgeon to knock me out. Most horrendous experience ever. Terrible. I had taken a bit of k recreationally in the 'old' days, I felt likemy legs were rooted to the ground and didnt like it much. When in hosp, a couple of drs were fascinated and wanted to hear what the ketamine experience was like.

I haven't taken drugs recreationally for about 10 years. Towards the end I would just vomit. Even taking codine post c section reduced me to a vomiting mess!

ImaginativeNewName Thu 07-Nov-13 20:03:18

My father had awful dreams on morphine after a back operation Chicken. I remember seeing him terrified in his hospital bed thinking werewolves were trying to get into the hospital. grin

And he then got addicted to Valium after the operation and had to be weaned off it, so not an overall great prescription - drugs experience for him.

A friend of mine takes morphine quite regularly for chronic pain and by the sounds of it, she could be setting herself up for some unpleasantness. She admitted she thinks the doctor only gives it to her because she asks for it and to fob her off because they can't find out exactly what is wrong with her.

IamInvisible Thu 07-Nov-13 20:03:50

It's all well and good saying it's like X or it's like Y, but the real answer is until you take it you don't know how it is for you!

I was given morphine, after an operation fortunately, and it sent me into respiratory distress. Luckily I had all the nurses and doctors around m, because had I have been at home never mind about feeling like being sat on a cloud, chances are I could have been sat on a bloody cloud!

I hate all opiates, they make me feel rotten. I don't understand how anyone becomes addicted to them because I don't get a nice feeling at all.

complexnumber Thu 07-Nov-13 20:04:08

I used to try speed (drop whizz) in the 70's.

It was incredibly addictive!!!

The come down seemed to tell you over and over again: "Have another and you'll feel fine"

This was while I was doing my A' levels.

Well done to those of you who are now clean.

Orangeanddemons Thu 07-Nov-13 20:06:18

Have I missed something with morphine? I found it made me sleepy, very very itchy, and not much use against pain. I certainly never felt warm/safe/ or any of the other orgasmic feelings. Just, well, a bit sleepy

Geckos48 Thu 07-Nov-13 20:09:13

Morphine is not the same as diamorphine, morphine has been synthesised to give you less of the 'buzz' and more of the pain relief, like novacaine has been synthesised from cocaine to give you more of the numbing and less of the buzz.

There is a huge difference between morphine and diamorphine

Geckos48 Thu 07-Nov-13 20:11:37

Heroin is not addictive on the first 'hit'

So if you have it short term, like in labour, there is little risk to you becoming addicted. It's when you have a supply of it and take it recreationally that you get addicted (same with most drugs). Crack and ketamine are two of the most addictive and many people take them recreationally, like once or twice a year...

treaclesoda Thu 07-Nov-13 20:12:07

I had diamorphine for pain relief in hospital once (not in labour though) and it was the most pleasurable experience of my life, by some distance. It started with a fuzzy feeling in my toes, then it spread up my body and the fizzing sensation that I felt as it worked its way across my scalp was just amazing. But most of all, it took away the pain that minutes earlier had me writhing in the bed and groaning and gasping for air, DH had to sit next to me for the next eight hours or so whilst I cooed 'this is amazing. A-mazing'. I don't think he enjoyed it as much as I did grin

Having said that, I'd imagine it would never feel as good if I had it again.

Oxycodone and Percocet are wonderful... I would happily live my life addicted. It gives me a warm fuzzy glow of well being and love to my family that I struggle to have naturally. It is like suddenly being the Virgin Mary in an old painting with the golden light all around, a beautific smile and a child to adore... I actually saved a few pills for my birthday as a treat.

Branleuse Thu 07-Nov-13 20:13:51

Ive had methodone, which is the synthetic version prescribed to addicts. It was bloody lovely. I felt calm, blissed out.
It was very nice, but I wouldnt take it again. I may be stupid, but not that stupid.

My mum told me that she had a terrible experience when someone gave her heroin instead of speed when she was younger, and she just couldnt stop vomiting.

Weegiemum Thu 07-Nov-13 20:14:34

I had diamorphine (medical heroin) for kidney stones.

If the pain goes away, the drug is still in your system, it feels awful.

Geckos48 Thu 07-Nov-13 20:14:51

Flying spaghetti - noted ;)

I tried heroin once. Well, maybe three or four times... Yes, it was good, but not so amazing I'd risk getting addicted, and I didn't feel any desperate need to take it over and over.

The boyfriend I got it from was addicted, on and off (he would give up the drugs now and then), but then he was addicted to every substance there is (not all at once, thank goodness). Literally couldn't get out of bed without a couple of coffees, couldn't sleep without a cigarette, would rather have alcohol or drugs than food.

The whole thing got me wondering about addictive personalities, and whether some people are more prone than others to needing extra chemicals in their bodies, either physically or psychologically.

Geckos48 Thu 07-Nov-13 20:19:07

notgood I think you're right. I have met people get addicted to anything but I've always been able to quick anything I've picked up, even cigarettes which people say are notorious bad.

DH is a different story though, has to swap something for something else.

Lazysuzanne Thu 07-Nov-13 20:19:12

I thought the addictiveness was partly to do with the fact that we mave endogenous opiates (ie endorphines) which our bodies stop producing if we use exogenous opiates.
That then means that if we stop taking the opiates there is an unpleasant gap (ie withdrawal) where we have no opiates until we start producing our own again.

It's prob more complex but I think thats the gist of it?

makemineabacardi Thu 07-Nov-13 20:21:50

So pethadine isnt similar to heroin? I had it while in labour and Ive never felt so afraid in all my life, curled up into a ball, couldnt verbalise how scared I was and just screamed through contractions as I felt out of control with pain. Didnt help a jot.

If thats what pethadine does to me Id hate to try heroin.

I've had morphine after operations and I hate it. It makes me sick and sleepy, and I have hideous nightmares.

My best mate was addicted to heroin. She went from 'recreational' use to injecting and became addicted to crack cocaine as well before she died. I've known a few acquaintances die of overdoses. I wouldn't a heroin addiction on my worst enemy.

In Uni, when we had a lecture about substance misuse/overdosing the nurse told us that heroin itself wasn't that hard to withdraw from, but the disassociation it provided was - ie, addicts weren't able to cope with problems/troubles/withdrawal symptoms without heroin rather than the drug itself being physically hard to wean off from.

How does that work then? My only experience is through watching things like Trainspotting and I have to say - it didn't look easy to me confused

Geckos48 Thu 07-Nov-13 20:22:40

No pethadine is very different to heroin.

Geckos48 Thu 07-Nov-13 20:24:35

If you are a well fed, well housed heroin addict, then the damage to the body is minor.

Problem is that the love of the drug takes over the natural want for food etc so it messes everything up.

Lots of people are addicted to heroin, we only hear about the 'junkies' though.

LadyMetroland Thu 07-Nov-13 20:26:29

So sorry about your daughter imip

Brices Thu 07-Nov-13 20:27:21

I love the idea of a golden halo like the Virgin Mary!
I have a few gabapentin squirrelled away, certainly easier to get on with my two year old when taking them.
Only thing with oxycodone be the antiemetic I'd have to take, I presume.

Anybody been tempted by ayahuasca?

Drgonzosattorney Thu 07-Nov-13 20:27:33

I have often wondered what certain drugs must be like but I have an addictive personality(i believe that it is possible, genetic etc.) so I have to watch with the old vino and alas filthy ciggies. I know that if I tried something hard then I'd be hooked.

JennySense Thu 07-Nov-13 20:31:48

I tried to negotiate keeping my morphine drip with the nurse. Thank fuck I've never had access to heroin.

BerstieSpotts Thu 07-Nov-13 20:32:37

I was told, although not sure if this is bollocks, that the feeling of being on heroin is actually a part of your brain dying, and hence you can never ever get the same level of high because that part of your brain is gone forever.

It sounds bollocks now I think about it blush

FreeWee Thu 07-Nov-13 20:34:14

I had pethidine and it didn't even touch the sides (well my DH said it made me bearable but I think that's cos I micronapped between contractions) I had liquid morphine after the c-section and it was luuuuurvely. Wrapped in cotton wool, taking the edge off life. I think I have a very addictive personality and lots of my family have various addictions. I've been called boring for not trying lots of things fags, drugs etc but I bet I'll like them, so I don't take them. I love Nurofen with codeine so avoid it as I'd could easily get addicted. I think I'd like heroin so definitely won't be trying it - unless I'm given weeks to live and then I'd try everything!

goodmum123 Thu 07-Nov-13 20:35:41

My brother has been a heroin addict for 15 years we think. He's
lost most of his teeth, speaks with a slur, falls asleep all time, has marks all over him from injecting, has infections all the time where his body bloats up, look appalling, doesn't wash, has lost all self respect, has caused the worst distress to the family ever imaginable. All because he wondered what it would be like once after saying weed was not enough. It has ruined his life, he now is taking methadone but I never can tell what he's really doing as he's a liar too, so sad and a tragedy for my parents and those that love him.

I had pethedine IV Did nothing at all.

When I had a peptic ulcer, I went to the GP twice, then out of hours, then A&E, upgrading my pain relief as I went and eventually got some fuck off drugs that after taking JUST once I developed a fantasy about and kept a stash of unused ones for recreational use.

I fell pregnant and Breastfed and they went way over date and I kind of got over it, but I learned a little about how powerful addiction must be.

Brices Thu 07-Nov-13 20:37:44

Ayahausca comes to mind as addiction expert Dr Gabor Mate has talked of its use as "spiritual" trip to aid heroin users.
Guess I'll live the rock n roll lifestyle and pour myself a glass of wine. This thread brings back happy memories though

I've been addicted to codeine. I love the stuff. If it's that feeling multiplied, I would probably adore it.

I've also had morphine and hated it. It gave me a massive panic attack, I could see the world melting around me and hear voices telling me to die. I ended up strapped onto the hospital bed having rather a lot of oxygen. I was told it was possibly a reaction to the anti emetic I had at the same time, but no-one can tell me for certain, so I'd never have it again just in case.

BlingBang Thu 07-Nov-13 20:41:39

See this is making me want to try it. Never really done drugs but would be good to safely try some just once. That doesn't happen so I'll just stay clear and stick to booze which is bad enough. Always worried I might have an addictive personality and would be too scared to got there.

Mintyy Thu 07-Nov-13 20:41:41

Heroin doesn't give a high. After the first couple of times (when it usually induces nausea to some degree) it gives a relaxed, safe, "no worries" feeling. Lou Reed's Perfect Day is widely believed to be an ode to.

Not nearly as entertaining as LSD smile.

I had diamorphine in childbirth. I didn't feel remotely spaced out. I felt very tired, had a few problems with my bp and then ended up with the itch to end all itches. I wanted to scratch off my face to get to it. I was given something to 'undo' the diamorphine effects as it did nothing positive.

I couldn't ever try it. I've never even tried a cigarette/alcohol. I have too much fear. If I even overcame my natural resistance to anything out of my control and injected/took a drug, I'd end up convinced I was going to die and self presenting at A&E. I don't want to be floating on a cloud of loveliness and calm. I'm quite happy in my slightly uptight, scared to lose control, sharp edged bubble. I am SO dull.

I've tried most drugs, I had a whole world of shit to deal with in my early 20's. Lots of drugs are much of a muchness. They remove reality, which for some is an excellent thing. I think this is more important to users than the high and us what keeps the momentum of addiction going. Not having to think and cope is lovely when you are sick if thinking and coping.

Geckos48 Thu 07-Nov-13 20:42:52

goodmum sounds like heroin or crystal meth sad

lifesgreatquestions Thu 07-Nov-13 20:43:48

Ah, Lou! I've led a very responsible life. My plan is to try everything when I'm old. Including getting a mohican. And I want to smoke lots of dope too.

EeyoreIsh Thu 07-Nov-13 20:45:51

hmm. I felt really sick when I came around after an op, and my dsis is allergic to opiates and I suspect I'm the same. I hate getting drunk and feeling out of control so I suspect I'd hate heroin.

DH has some diazepam which I'm returning to the pharmacy tomorrow if anybody wants them. grin He took some recently after putting his back out. Honest to God he sat and laughed at some margarine for an hour. He had tiny little pinprick pupils, giggled a lot and then passed out. He is such a cheap date. He slept for about 20 hours out of every 24 for 3 days and woke only to laugh hysterically and wee.

Abra1d Thu 07-Nov-13 20:46:01

'I've sometimes thought that if I was given x months to live, and it was definitely terminal so not worth treating but wasn't going to be immediately debilitating, I'd spend the period I was still well and upright taking as many hard drugs as possible.'

This is what they used to give people who were terminally ill--it was called a Brompton cocktail.

Made from morphine or diacetylmorphine (heroin), cocaine, ethyl alcohol (some recipes specify gin), and sometimes with chlorpromazine (Thorazine) to counteract nausea,

Thecircle Thu 07-Nov-13 20:46:37

My best friend from childhood became addicted to heroin at 14 years old.

She died aged 21 whilst 6 months pregnant. She was clean of heroin when she died and was taking only what she was prescribed. Sadly she died of blood poisoning, probably due to infection from an injecting site.

I tried for years to get her to stop, as did her family. I saw her go cold turkey. It's the most horrifying sight I've ever ever seen. To see a beautiful, intelligent girl reduced to what she was.

I could never understand why she couldn't just say no. I suppose I still can't almost ten years on. The fact that she said was able to stop with medical help for her baby was the only comfort we could take from her death.

Was she honestly always chasing that first high? It's tragic and very hard to understand

Geckos48 Thu 07-Nov-13 20:48:02

Diazepam is a different family, not an opiate.

PenguinDancer Thu 07-Nov-13 20:48:54

Good enough to leave me and my son so I'm told.

whois Thu 07-Nov-13 20:54:20

Heroin is so dangerous because it is physically addictive as well as psychologically addictive.

Most recreational drugs are just psychologically addictive.

The drug itself is actually quite clean, and one can be a productive and functioning member of society while addicted. Indeed many great creatives were addicted to heroin. Unfortunately it's the criminal lifestyle associated with the drug now that is damaging to users. And the impurities it's cut with.

If I ever get diagnosed with a terminal illness I am 100% getting seriously fucking smashed on heroin.

Crowler Thu 07-Nov-13 20:58:14

Penguin, sorry to hear that.

I understand it to be so delightful that I'm intrigued and repelled in equal measure. I would not try it. I did quite a lot of "experimentation" in my 20's and that was fun but nothing I couldn't do without.

MuffCakes Thu 07-Nov-13 21:01:47

I have tried heroin a few times, never injected but had the odd couple of lines when I was a teenager.

It is just this warm safe feeling of everythings ok, like you would imagine a mums hug to be.

ShakeRattleNRoll Thu 07-Nov-13 21:01:55

It must feel amazing taking herion floating on cloud nine springs to mind and I would imagine that is how it feels but I still don't like smackheads

If I ever get diagnosed with a terminal illness I am 100% getting seriously fucking smashed on heroin.

Easy to do - they will give it to you in Hospital

Dad had terminal cancer and took Oramorph. Said it was lovely stuff. He did rather wander off mentally during conversations when he'd just had some though grin

Hassled Thu 07-Nov-13 21:03:33

I would have sold my granny down the river for another hit of the Pethadine I had in labour. It was quite wonderful for a few moments.

I quite like the idea of waiting until I know I'm about to pop my clogs and then giving the hard stuff a go grin.

MuffCakes Thu 07-Nov-13 21:03:56

It doesn't feel amazing, crack feels amazing heroin is calm and warm, like athe best bath in the world but that bath loves you as well as warms you.

Mignonette Thu 07-Nov-13 21:04:32

It is a myth held onto that you chase that first hit. Not true. some people have a great first experience. Some have their heads down the loo for five hours. Some nod. Some get quite hyper. Some have incredible hits several months/years after first using. Some don't. Some can take it or leave it whereas others have a compulsion to re use very quickly.

Different opiates give different feelings. Diconal gives a terrific cramping buzz that some users adore and some hate.
Morphine Hydrochloride (jacks) are loved by some, not by others.
Palfium (a synthetic opiate) is liked because it lasts a long time but it is easy to OD on it.
Pethidine can be disliked because it has less euphoric effects for most users accustomed to Dia and street heroin (brown or white).
Diamorphine is pharmeceutical grade Heroin. Street Heroin may be cut with other drugs. Some users like the hit from the cut stuff whereas others prefer clean.
MST's used to have their coating scraped off and then the insides were injected. Messy and dangerous.
Physeptone tends to be less euphoric. It has a longer half life so takes longer to break down and wear off which is why it was PX to Addicts. Unfortunately this makes it harder to wean oneself from although I do not subscribe to the school of abstinence as the only treatment. Every user differs.

FoxyRevenger Thu 07-Nov-13 21:09:04

Show my DH took Diazepam a couple of hours ago for his back and hasn't felt a thing.

He must be hard as fuck grin

DioneTheDiabolist Thu 07-Nov-13 21:09:09

The only 2 heroin addicts I knew were very successful and wealthy. For one of them, during rehab he realized that his 6 figure salaried job was part of the problem. He quit once he got out and the company had paid the medical insurance that covered his treatment and began working as an odd job man in our small town.

Stumps, that sounds like the most amazing holiday.grin. Three days of laughing and sleeping. How much do you want for them? I can pick them up in half an hour.wink

whois Thu 07-Nov-13 21:09:09

Diazepam is a different family, not an opiate

Some similarities in how it acts in the brain though - ups the dopamine. Heroin addicts often use benzodiazepines as they come off heroin.

Diazepam is massively addictive! Not one to messed with and pretty terrible the way so many 'respectable' people (who would NEVER 'do drugs') think it's ok to keep in taking prescribed Valium left over after an bad back or something. News flash, that IS 'doing drugs'.

As a country we need a much more open and honest debate about drugs (including alcohol and Tabasco) and the relative levels of harm associated with each.

Personally I think we should decriminalise all drugs and have then sold from government run shops and be taxed. And have some decent studies into the long term negative effects.

Mignonette Thu 07-Nov-13 21:10:51

Benzo's don't stop the withdrawal symptoms. They prop the user up through them.

SwedishEdith Thu 07-Nov-13 21:11:49

When you have a pre-med in hospital before an operation, what drug is that? That was lovely.

whois Thu 07-Nov-13 21:12:00

including alcohol and Tabasco

Tabaco, obviously.

Although adding Tabasco to ones food can be quite addictive ;-)

whois Thu 07-Nov-13 21:12:57

Benzo's don't stop the withdrawal symptoms. They prop the user up through them

Agreed. Doesn't do anything for the physical withdrawal but helps the psychological side.

Geckos48 Thu 07-Nov-13 21:13:20

We should definitely decriminalise Tabasco!

Mignonette Thu 07-Nov-13 21:15:51

Sneezing is one of the more annoying early onset signs of opiate withdrawal.

Has anybody noticed how tiny babies can sneeze when they look at bright light?

Well i had a patient who had to be sedated because of continual sneezing. It lasted for twenty six hours and he became clinically exhausted. Similar phenomena. Bizarre.

Coldlightofday Thu 07-Nov-13 21:18:03

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hassled Thu 07-Nov-13 21:18:37

I got briefly excited there about the potential hallucinogenic properties of that bottle of Tabasco Sauce I have lurking grin

DoubleLifeIsALifeOfSorts Thu 07-Nov-13 21:20:45

Meh, morphine is ok but not amazing, for me at least. Certainly not anything orgasmic at all, a very gentle high, less high than having Ds that's for sure... I was soooo euphoric then and twas natural!

I take it for pain and I dont get any of the lovely effects talked about which is a damned shame as I could do with getting lost for a while. However I do get physical withdrawal effects of I dont take it even for an hour or two after when I should. Worries me alot, it's like nothing on earth...

I sneeze at bright lights.

Also when I'm hungry.

whois Thu 07-Nov-13 21:27:21

Has anybody noticed how tiny babies can sneeze when they look at bright light?

Not just babies! I'm a photic sneezer. Wiki says it's common at 18% to. 35 % of the population have it. 67% of those who sneeze in response to change in light are female.

At risk of derailing the thread, MDMA, seriously, should be available to buy. Few long term harmful effects and a shit load of fun. Apparently. Obviously I've never taken any illigal drugs. Ever.

Government policy (MDMA 'ingredients' being very difficult to get hold of in uk) are leading to people dying after ingesting PMA which much higher toxicity, longer lead time for effects and is being mid-sold as MDMA. 20 people would be alive (2012 alone) if they had been able to buy MDMA.

maddening Thu 07-Nov-13 21:28:01

but those doing street drugs generally don't just take heroin - it's all crack cocaine etc so lots of highs etc - my friend who was a reformed heroin addict and sadly went back to it said after a while they take heroin to be normal and other drugs for the highs.

Mignonette Thu 07-Nov-13 21:36:05

Polydrug use has many different forms - some users have one primary drug of addiction and use other drugs to cope w/ an absence of the drug of choice. Others use different drugs for different effects or different needs. Others combine drugs to get new experiences.

Polydrug use when chaotic is very risky.

Thing is w/ Heroin addiction is that you have to have it to function at all once you have a physiological addiction (tolerance) although you can still get great pleasure from it if the dose is adequately high. Whereas w/ cocaine and amphetamines, you can function physically without them but you will feel tired, emotionally unstable and crave them.

However people w/ long term heroin habits can and do still experience great highs from it. They can have a good hit because it is pure or they are in the right frame of mind etc etc. It is a myth that you never get that high again and spend the rest of the time either chasing it or just using to feel normal. You need a baseline dose to feel 'normal' but that is not the end of it.

TheBreastmilksOnMe Thu 07-Nov-13 21:36:39

I don't think it agrees with me as when I had diamorphine in hospital I literally could not stop vomiting for 48hrs so that alone would put me off. I have tried ecstasy though and took it almost every weekend from aged 18-20 and that stuff is nice. Not addictive either.

It makes you feel like your in love with everybody and everything, no care in the world. The last time I took it it nearly killed me though. I ended up on life support. Luckily I pulled through with no lasting damage. I've never touched any recreational drug since. I never will. It was a harsh lesson and something my family will always remember after they were called in and told that if I pulled through, I'd be a vegetable. I don't need to tell you how dangerous drugs can be.

jellyboatsandpirates Thu 07-Nov-13 21:39:13

This thread is so sad. "Like you'd imagine a mum's hug to be." WTAF?!
Comparing being off your head to a mum's hug is just.... wrong. Same with being wrapped in a warm blanket.
An actual blanket would be preferable to losing all sense of identity and your life.
Something seriously wrong somewhere in heads if comparing it to those.

pethedine is shit. It doesn't remove the pain just gags you from complaining about it.

Strumpetron Thu 07-Nov-13 21:42:12

jellyboatsandpirates

hmm People were describing how it feels, and it does feel like that. When you take a drug like that that's how it feels. No-one is saying being a heroine addict feels like that, they're talking about what the drug feels like for the first time.

Nothing wrong with anyone's heads confused

Mignonette Thu 07-Nov-13 21:45:37

Jelly You are thinking about what is being expressed here in a very concrete manner.

I think this is an honest and brave thread.

jellyboatsandpirates Thu 07-Nov-13 21:45:37

Nothing wrong with anyone's heads

There must be on some level to want to take it in the first place.

Groovee Thu 07-Nov-13 21:47:32

I had diamorphine in a huge dose in labour. I hated it. I felt as if the room was spinning. I kept seeing the missing nursery rabbit from my work in the corner and felt I was falling off the bed.

In my second labour I had it small does and it just made me sleepy.

Strumpetron Thu 07-Nov-13 21:47:57

There must be on some level to want to take it in the first place

Actually I suspect a lot of people would have tried it when they were much younger, possibly at a time when it wasn't as frowned upon. Or perhaps it was but experimented anyway. They've been truthful and shared their experience.

The majority of us have spoken about morphine, the pure form which obviously we've had for medical reasons.

TheBreastmilksOnMe Thu 07-Nov-13 21:48:20

Jelly- it's human nature to be curious, nothing is black and white.

Mignonette Thu 07-Nov-13 21:48:59

Nonsense. The mechanics of addicted and compulsive behaviours are present in everybody.

Ever sabotaged an intention to eat or live more healthily?

Ever been on a diet and eaten something you shouldn't?

Ever had a drink of alcohol when you really felt you shouldn't?

Ever felt a compulsion to do something you know you shouldn't or intended not to?

It is actually not that big a leap from there......To there......

Branleuse Thu 07-Nov-13 21:49:35

now crack, i really hated. I injected it and the rush was like being hit with a brick and then i felt jittery and really anxious and panicky and couldnt wait for it to wear off. Never did that again

Thecircle Thu 07-Nov-13 21:52:48

jelly I don't think that's necessarily true.

I know my best friend was highly intelligent, she'd not suffered any abuse or neglect but made a series of silly decisions. There was nothing wrong with her as such. Not until it took a hold.

I do find it fascinating, maybe morbidly so. Having lost someone I loved to it( and seen many school friends succumb to it also) its always been repulsive to me.

But the pull must be there and I see no wrong in discussing what that is

Mumofalittlegirl Thu 07-Nov-13 21:55:32

My uncle has methadone as pain relief for cancer treatment, it barely touches it.

I take codeine and on occasion oramorph for pain relief, again, no effect.

Diazepam, however, now that's a funky arsed high!

Mumofalittlegirl Thu 07-Nov-13 21:55:55

I should clarify that I don't take it to get high I take it for muscle spasms!

Branleuse Thu 07-Nov-13 21:56:16

well its bound to be controversial.

Not trying to win anyone round.

Caitlin17 Thu 07-Nov-13 21:59:35

Like many of you I have been given morphine as a painkiller and it felt great. Definitely warm ,fluffy, safe . I remember thinking , oh that's why people do it.

Mignonette Thu 07-Nov-13 21:59:47

A good book for those wanting to know more is 'Out Of It'-a cultural history of intoxication' by Stuart Walton here. Loads of stuff there on the history, culture and science of drug use.

'Writing on Drugs' by Sadie Plant is interesting here;

Another good book is 'The Fix' by Brian Freemantle.

Branleuse Thu 07-Nov-13 22:03:18

i fucking love diazepam. I really love it.
I hardly ever take it though. I have it on hand for sleep occasionally, but having beaten a large scale amphetamine addiction, im very very careful with what i touch now and petrified of getting addicted to stuff,

Mumofalittlegirl Thu 07-Nov-13 22:04:51

I only take it when my muscles spasm and catch the nerves. Floaty sleepy goodness.

I hate tramadol with a passion. Nasty nasty painkiller.

Jelly in my experience the people who I knew who were heroin addicts were the people who had never really experienced a mothers hug at least until it was it was too late.

When I was younger and much more judgemental I used to say we all had hard lives why did they turn to drugs but I soon realised that it was only down to luck and probably personality on my part.

Everyone is different and how they deal with the hard parts of life is different. Where I was brought up there are high levels of drug addiction and high levels of suicide. I believe that sometimes people feel that is there only choice.

VikingVagine Thu 07-Nov-13 22:07:01

It feels a bit like when you're just falling asleep, that point where you're fuzzily just about conscious and you have a lovely feeling in the pit of your stomach.

<goes back to read thread>

NedZeppelin Thu 07-Nov-13 22:07:20

my body can still recreate the rush of MDMA some 10 years after I took it on a regular basis. If I unexpectedly hear a tune from my old clubbing days, the hair on my arms stand on end and I get a rush! How cool is that?

I had one dose of diamorphine about 42 hours into a three-day labour, and then again with a tumour in torsion where I was screaming in so much pain they couldn't examine me.

It was incredible - pps who have described watching the world through bulletproof glass in the most comfortable chair ever, yes that was precisely my experience.

My grandfather had it during after his knee replacement operation at eighty and very calmly said he quite understood why people got addicted to heroin. At the time I was shock but now I understand what he means.

If I had easy access to hospital-grade diamorphine I'd be sorely tempted.

Dahlen Thu 07-Nov-13 22:17:20

I had gas and air when in labour which left me pretty high (and offering it to passing members of staff blush) but I also felt rather disorientated and before long didn't like the feeling of loss of control. It's the same reason that I don't ever get hideously lying-in-the-gutter-don't-know-who-I-am drunk (though I've spent many an evening getting acquainted with the toilet in the past). The loss of control.

I'm not a control freak, but I am self-controlled. I think that's a good thing. I am still spontaneous, happy, adaptable and like to have fun. I can feel euphoric when running, ecstatic when dancing, relaxed when walking the dog, focused when working, amused when with my DC/friends, etc.
I would hate to think that I would need any form of chemical assistance to feel those. What I feel quite naturally is more than enough.

Junebugjr Thu 07-Nov-13 22:24:28

Had morphine during my labour with Dd1, really didn't like the feeling. Felt spaced out, and panicking in a weird relaxed sort of way that I was out of control, if that makes sense.
When on an experimental stage in my early twenties, I felt the same about marijuana, I used to panic if I could feel myself relax too much.
I loved MDMA though and cocaine, the whole ritual of going out, scoring, the dance scene, house parties til 11am the next day, laughing about the nights events, then finally crashing out. Although I gave it up quite easily when I left Uni, I can see how things can escalate, and what once was something fun, becomes something you need.
My cousin has taken street Heroin a few times, and said it was boring.

ouryve Thu 07-Nov-13 22:27:10

I've been told that it makes you just not feel anything any more and makes you stop caring.

crunchybargalore Thu 07-Nov-13 22:34:22

Basically it replaces everything else as it fucks with your reward pathway.

I knew someone who dies of a heron overdose.

So so sd for his family - he made out he was finally on his way tonne clean and needed money to fix his bad teeth. His parents fell for it and finally told people he was on his way to being clean - he then died.

Tragic way to go.

frustratedandfailing Thu 07-Nov-13 22:36:46

YANBU - curiosity and all that.

Anecdotally - morphine is fucking horrible.

NedZep I am exactly the same.

Haven't taken Class A drugs for about 10 years, but regularly did in the late 80s and 90s.

The right feeling, the right tune and I get tingly toes, goosebumps and a mini-rush.

I have a few friends who say the same thing. I wonder how that works?

I've tried it twice when I was a young teenager....made me feel sick as a dog first time but I really cared about NOTHING. If you're in a tough place with a lot of problems I can see how people become addicted to it.

Opiates are amazing drugs....any drugs when abused are problematic. I've had to take long term high dosage codeine and withdrawal isn't fun, but it's a cracking painkiller.

Diazepam is also amazing. I've taken it for panic attacks...it calms you down within 10 minutes or so from hyperventilating hysteria.

I wouldn't recommend heroin to anyone, I've lost people to it...but I can understand why people take it.

SeaSickSal Thu 07-Nov-13 22:42:25

Someone who is fairly well balanced and who has had a fairly decent life will be much less likely to get addicted to heroin. Because if your normal state is bearable or pleasant you may like the feeling but you won't NEED to take it again. You will know that what an addiction can do to you is not worth it.

But if you have had a shitty horrible life and you are in the kind of mental anguish constantly which manifests itself as a physical pain - well then if you take heroin it may well be the first time in years you're released from that anguish. And you will risk an addiction because it's preferable to the pain.

It's people who have something that they need to get away from that's inside themselves who are most vulnerable.

I have taken it and probably would have ended up an addict if my supply hadn't been suddenly cut off.

I think that the mental health approach we have today of not using strong fast acting drugs is just useless for such people. It's like giving someone with a broken spine an aspirin. I wish people in such anguish could be medicated via the NHS.

MuffCakes Thu 07-Nov-13 22:45:55

I still smell crack sometimes, shops, work parks on the path just get a proper whiff ahh.

Was never a full on drug addict just experimented heavily through a fucked up part of my life before I got pregnant.

Lazysuzanne Thu 07-Nov-13 22:46:45

I've had tramadol for back pain, thought it was nice but never been tempted to use it recreationally.

I used to use alcohol and maryjane but these days I've lost that desire for intoxication.
I find hallucinogens interesting, dmt, mescaline and all that but no desire to actually try any of it.

Dahlen Thu 07-Nov-13 22:47:14

THere are a surprising number of functioning addicts out there, just as there are functioning alcoholics. I guess these are the people who can stand their natural state long enough in each day to hold down a job and maintain relationships. I still find it very sad. (I mean sad in the proper sense, not the PA pathetic definition).

SeaSickSal - I agree with you about mental pain and the time it takes to medicate for it. I'd go one step further though and argue that with the exception of MH problems caused by physiological changes in the brain, one of the best ways the NHS could save money on MH-related and addiction problems would be to fund counselling to a much higher level. At the moment the waiting lists are too long and there aren't enough of them to go around.

Flatasawitchestit Thu 07-Nov-13 22:51:52

I had diamorphine which is the same thing. It was ace.

My bil is a heroin addict, and has wasted his life away in a drug filled haze.

Ruralninja Thu 07-Nov-13 22:51:58

the not caring thing is hard for me to grasp imo - my exH loved valium for that reason (not a user of it, just had it a few times for medical reasons) and it was the selfsame reason I hated it.... always loved life too much to want to switch off. Could that beca factor in addiction or not?

crunchybargalore Thu 07-Nov-13 22:53:49

Dahlen that is interesting?

Do you think heroin addicts really hold down a job?

Because of the direct hit to the brain heroin is so addictive?

SeaSickSal Thu 07-Nov-13 22:55:46

Dahlen pain at that level is not sorted out by counselling. I think one of the problems is that the people who make decisions on this kind of thing have never personally experienced anything like that so have no idea how awful and all consuming it is.

I think if you suggested to someone who'd been addicted to smack that they might not have ended up taking it if they'd had counselling they would just laugh at you.

20-40 years of a brutal life is not going to be wiped out by a couple of hours a week telling a nice lady in a cardie about it. I think it's that basic misunderstanding of how bad it is that leads people to feel that illegal drugs are the only way out for them.

dinnaementiontheprunes Thu 07-Nov-13 22:56:57

I don't get high from diazepam. Missing a trick!

Strumpetron Thu 07-Nov-13 22:57:09

Agree 100% with SeaSickSal

Dahlen Thu 07-Nov-13 22:58:31

I've had to attend training about addiction because it was related to something I do. That's where I found out the figures. I know of someone who has held down the same job for the last 12 years while feeding an addiction.

I think as most drug use is illegal it only tends to pervade people's consciousness when they feel the effects of the crime associated with it. So a functioning user who is funding their habit through work rather than burglary won't cross anyone's radar unless they happen to get caught by the police buying their drugs for example.

But like functioning alcoholics, functioning is the same as functional. It's still not a great way to live. I haven't yet met an addict of any kind of drug whose life I have ever come close to envying.

SeaSickSal Thu 07-Nov-13 22:59:01

Rural ninja, exactly. If you're enjoying life and feeling good you wouldn't need to take it. But if life is horrible, brutal, painful and you have been so traumatised that you carry pain with you all the time it's just something you want to get away from. It's almost like suicide without the finality.

Mumofalittlegirl Thu 07-Nov-13 22:59:19

I can well believe there are functioning addicts out there.

I can go to work having taken codeine at a high level (although I won't drive that day) if my pain is particularly bad so I can imagine that if you take heroin at a dose that just keeps you in check that you could well function.

Alas that's not taking into account the many mental health and social issues that come along with addiction that prevent people functioning

Dahlen Thu 07-Nov-13 22:59:52

SeaSick - sorry if that came across as dismissive. I didn't mean to suggest that counselling is a panacea for mental anguish.

I have more to say but will post this first to get it up there.

Strumpetron Thu 07-Nov-13 23:01:10

Well apparently the drug of choice for 'housewives' these days is codeine. They get caught in the trap of it, subscribed for pain, highly addictive.

I myself fell into it, and I still take the odd couple even when I'm not in pain. Which is stupid I know.

tillyo Thu 07-Nov-13 23:02:35

When I was seriously ill I become addicted to morphine as people have said it doesn't take pain away but makes you feel different so you don't feel the pain as much. If I'm given it now it just makes me feel sick so I try and avoid it at all cost now.

Mumofalittlegirl Thu 07-Nov-13 23:02:51

I'm not a 'housewife addict' I'm sadly a chronic pain patient that deals with arthritic and neuropathic pain on a daily basis. It's not fun.

I deliberately keep my dosages low to avoid addiction

Strumpetron Thu 07-Nov-13 23:04:44

Sorry mumof I hope you didn't think I was trying to insinuate you are, I was just talking out loud.

I'm prescribed codeine because I was assaulted last year, got my head kicked in and broken hand and wrists so it manages my pain. I don't take them anymore though - except the odd ones I admitted too - because I know how addictive they are.

crunchybargalore Thu 07-Nov-13 23:06:16

From NIDA

Prescription Opioid Abuse: A First Step to Heroin Use?

Prescription opioid pain medications such as Oxycontin and Vicodin can have effects similar to heroin when taken in doses or in ways other than prescribed, and they are currently among the most commonly abused drugs in the United States. Research now suggests that abuse of these drugs may open the door to heroin abuse.

Nearly half of young people who inject heroin surveyed in three recent studies reported abusing prescription opioids before starting to use heroin. Some individuals reported taking up heroin because it is cheaper and easier to obtain than prescription opioids.

Many of these young people also report that crushing prescription opioid pills to snort or inject the powder provided their initiation into these methods of drug administration.

Heroin is an opioid drug that is synthesized from morphine, a naturally occurring substance extracted from the seed pod of the Asian opium poppy plant. Heroin usually appears as a white or brown powder or as a black sticky substance, known as “black tar heroin.”

In 2011, 4.2 million Americans aged 12 or older (or 1.6 percent) had used heroin at least once in their lives. It is estimated that about 23 percent of individuals who use heroin become dependent on it.

How Does Heroin Affect the Brain?

When it enters the brain, heroin is converted back into morphine, which binds to molecules on cells known as opioid receptors. These receptors are located in many areas of the brain (and in the body), especially those involved in the perception of pain and in reward. Opioid receptors are also located in the brain stem, which controls automatic processes critical for life, such as blood pressure, arousal, and respiration. Heroin overdoses frequently involve a suppression of breathing, which can be fatal.

After an intravenous injection of heroin, users report feeling a surge of euphoria (“rush”) accompanied by dry mouth, a warm flushing of the skin, heaviness of the extremities, and clouded mental functioning. Following this initial euphoria, the user goes “on the nod,” an alternately wakeful and drowsy state. Users who do not inject the drug may not experience the initial rush, but other effects are the same.

Regular heroin use changes the functioning of the brain. One result is tolerance, in which more of the drug is needed to achieve the same intensity of effect. Another result is dependence, character-ized by the need to continue use of the drug to avoid withdrawal symptoms.

Injection Drug Use and HIV and HCV Infection

People who inject drugs are at high risk of contracting HIV and hepatitis C (HCV). This is because these diseases are transmitted through contact with blood or other bodily fluids, which can occur when sharing needles or other injection drug use equipment. (HCV is the most common blood-borne infection in the Unites States.) HIV (and less often HCV) can also be contracted during unprotected sex, which drug use makes more likely.

Because of the strong link between drug abuse and the spread of infectious disease, drug abuse treatment can be an effective way to prevent the latter. People in drug abuse treatment, which often includes risk reduction counseling, stop or reduce their drug use and related risk behaviors, including risky injection practices and unsafe sex.

What Are the Other Health Effects of Heroin?

Heroin abuse is associated with a number of serious health conditions, including fatal overdose, spontaneous abortion, and infectious diseases like hepatitis and HIV (see box, “Injection Drug Use and HIV and HCV Infection”). Chronic users may develop collapsed veins, infection of the heart lining and valves, abscesses, constipation and gastrointestinal cramping, and liver or kidney disease. Pulmonary complications, including various types of pneumonia, may result from the poor health of the user as well as from heroin’s effects.

Brices Thu 07-Nov-13 23:06:38

Heroin description = "Imagining how a mum's hug would feel" not remembering a mum's hug. Found this post poignant, can see how heroin would feel like unconditional love if you've not had that from a parent

Mumofalittlegirl Thu 07-Nov-13 23:07:26

That's ok. I just get defensive as if I'm out, particularly at places like festivals where bag searches occur, I will get told in a 'jokey' manner that 'that lot could make you a fortune!'

Strumpetron Thu 07-Nov-13 23:08:39

I will get told in a 'jokey' manner that 'that lot could make you a fortune!

Oh christ I've got loads of boxes of 30/500's, wonder what the street market for that is wink

Dahlen Thu 07-Nov-13 23:08:47

I maintain that the only way to really banish mental pain that has been caused by years of suffering is to deal with the cause. Drugs can only ever deal with the symptoms, but can't cure.

I accept that sometimes the damage done is just too severe to be undone. It's like a terminal illness in effect. THe best you can hope to achieve is to reduce the main to a bearable level until nature takes it course.

I agree with you that the NHS should look into ways of achieving that. We keep hearing about how MH issues should not be stigmatised and should be viewed in the same way as physical illness, but no one treats mental pain the same as physical pain. sad Make it about addiction and there seems to be even less understanding.

But IMO some addicts would be far better helped with intensive counselling that could help them deal with their pain effectively enough to remove the need the chemical pain relief. In turn, that can lead to greater control over their life and it sets in motion an upward spiral.

All the successful ex-addicts I've met have said that a combination of counselling, family support and opportunities to improve their lives themselves have made the difference between success this time round and failure in the past.

EmmaBemma Thu 07-Nov-13 23:09:06

Some really great, thoughtful posts on here. Not your usual AIBU fodder!

Strumpetron Thu 07-Nov-13 23:11:07

I maintain that the only way to really banish mental pain that has been caused by years of suffering is to deal with the cause

It's not always that simple. Sometimes there isn't a cause to 'deal with'. People react to things differently, I've had counselling and medication.

Counselling I found of little to no help, medication is what makes my life liveable. People are different and I don't think anyone can actually say what really does work because it's on a really personal level. Some people chose meds, some chose counselling, some holistic things.. it's what works for the sufferer.

Mumofalittlegirl Thu 07-Nov-13 23:11:56

The other commonly abused prescription drug is diclofenac (brand name escapes me) but it's a front line anti inflammatory that can make you very light headed indeed in strong doses!

Luckily I'm not allowed that one due to stomach issues but I can see how people get hooked, it does give a pleasant glow to you

Mumofalittlegirl Thu 07-Nov-13 23:13:18

<toddles off to work out the combined street value of mine and strumpeton's medicine cabinets...>

Strumpetron Thu 07-Nov-13 23:13:26

It's Voltral isn't it mum. I didn't know that it was a commonly abused one, I've never had it myself.

Strumpetron Thu 07-Nov-13 23:13:55

toddles off to work out the combined street value of mine and strumpeton's medicine cabinets

Could do with a few extra quid before christmas...

I JOKE!! grin

Strumpetron Thu 07-Nov-13 23:14:42

Another thing I'm prescribed, amitryptaline is apparently misused. I never take the stuff, horrible thing

Mumofalittlegirl Thu 07-Nov-13 23:14:55

Think it's more an issue in the US than over here.

Mumofalittlegirl Thu 07-Nov-13 23:18:48

Amytriptiline has horrible side effects. I'm on a variant of it that's all the pluses of amytriptiline but none of the horrible bits.

I think the worst thing I've ever taken was an antidepressant that tasted vaguely of oranges and dissolved on my tongue. I'm a walking pharmaceutical experiment really. I've taken most prescription drugs!!

I do wonder, in keeping with the op, what the deal is with crystal meth

Strumpetron Thu 07-Nov-13 23:20:55

It makes my heart race, which isn't good because I'm tachycardic. Apparently it's supposed to help sleep but I end up being restless and horrible from it. Can't even remember why it was prescribed to me, think it was along side my ant-ds.

Snap, I'm actually only now realising how many prescription drugs I've been on at some point blush

crystal meth has been horribly glamourised since Breaking Bad. The one drug that scares me is that Krokodile. Makes bits of your body fall off!

Mumofalittlegirl Thu 07-Nov-13 23:22:19

Oh god yes I've heard about Krokodil and nearly threw up when I saw a photo of an addict

Thecircle Thu 07-Nov-13 23:23:07

mum I watched the Louis Theroux documentary about crystal meth just last week on Netflix. Very strange indeed.

Gaterhater Thu 07-Nov-13 23:23:49

I had morphine when I was in hosp for a few days. I was relaxed and not it pain but mainly just had a really dry mouth and a horribly itchy face.

I'll stick to a nice cuppa thanks <dullard>

<happy dullard>

Strumpetron Thu 07-Nov-13 23:24:18

Happy dullard grin

SoonToBeSix Thu 07-Nov-13 23:27:16

Haven't read all the thread but anyone who has had diamorphine whilst given birth has had pure heroin.

Mumofalittlegirl Thu 07-Nov-13 23:29:54

I can see this thread in the press:

Mums confess to wild drug taking antics
Mums get high whilst caring for their babies

Strumpetron Thu 07-Nov-13 23:30:29

mum you're probably right. 'mum smuggles drugs into festival'

FunnyRunner Thu 07-Nov-13 23:31:03

Morphine makes me boke. I would be a terrible addict grin

Brices Thu 07-Nov-13 23:31:38

Amitriptyline is anti-depressant but mainly used as adjuvant neuropathic pain

Mumofalittlegirl Thu 07-Nov-13 23:31:52

Mums contemplate street value of medicine cabinets

<anyone want a half used bottle of calpol>

Dahlen Thu 07-Nov-13 23:32:28

Strumpetron I bow to personal experience. I am only able to offer an opinion based on observation and some research and I'm certainly not an expert. I wouldn't dream of rejecting someone's personal experience simply because it doesn't fit my view. That would be horribly dismissive and arrogant.

I believe passionately that intensive counselling will help but I more than accept that it's not a magic cure or even appropriate in all cases. I don't see counselling and pain relief as in competition with each other though. Surely they can be complementary?

wetaugust Thu 07-Nov-13 23:32:41

I've had morphine orally and intravenously and it didn't do a lot to kill pain. I was told that some people seem to be less affected by it - I guess I am one of those.

Mumofalittlegirl Thu 07-Nov-13 23:32:45

Brices ~ low dose is pain relief and high doss is antidepressant. Personally find it vile at both ends of the spectrum

I had morphine when I had dd3, after my c section in fact. I was lying there one minute all content with new dd whilst they were sorting my bits iut snd the next WHOAH. felt like I was floating on a velvet cushion, felt very spaced out but then very sick. I didnt like it all that kucj and remember remarking to the anaesthetist that I would make a crap drug addict grin
very strange experience.

Mumofalittlegirl Thu 07-Nov-13 23:33:45

Surely counselling would only work if if were ongoing and permanent and something addicts could tap into without sitting on a waiting list?

Is that something that will ever happen?

much not kujc

Mumofalittlegirl Thu 07-Nov-13 23:35:12

Counselling can also be an effective pain management treatment btw. Teaching coping strategies through CBT and other behavioural therapies can substitute chemical dependencies

Strumpetron Thu 07-Nov-13 23:37:10

dahlen I think for some people you're right, complementary for a bit of 'back up' if you will.

Personally I think in the worst case scenario people try everything they can, just have to see what works for them. Counselling can be quite intrusive for some people, it was for me anyway. But I've known people who it's worked wonders for. Both sides of the coin.

justmyview Thu 07-Nov-13 23:43:42

I've heard that a surprisingly high number of "illicit drugs" seized by the police contain no illegal content. Lots of talcum powder etc ..... very frightening

DoubleLifeIsALifeOfSorts Fri 08-Nov-13 00:06:12

Councelling can only do so much and as part of a pain management plan can be very useful, but is often offered as a panacea instead of appropriate drugs which invert unfortuneate ... It's easy to dismiss pain in other people and I think more effort needs taking to try and understand it as a whole.

Mumofalittlegirl Fri 08-Nov-13 07:30:24

Mmm I don't know. I personally don't think drugs are the way forwards with any type of pain (physical or emotional) and personally think that people need to be taught coping techniques over a pitiful pat on the head and a 'yes dear you're in pain have some drugs now sit and wallow in it'

The mind is a very very powerful instrument and I truly don't understand why it's not seen as good practice to give MH treatments along side any/all chronic ailments, including addiction

fledtoscotland Fri 08-Nov-13 07:33:07

Heroin is diamorphine not morphine sulphate which is normally given in hospital. Diamorphine is a horrible drug but used in obstetrics as it's very effective but is metabolised quickly. I've had it once and found it made me feel very unwell - shaking, blood pressure in my boots, vomited, eventually passed out. I cannot imagine taking it for fun

Geckos48 Fri 08-Nov-13 07:33:13

There are lots of high functioning addicts. A remarkable amount of doctors are addicts of something or other!

IndiansInTheFuckerLobby Fri 08-Nov-13 07:44:31

This thread is really interesting, but just wondering if someone who was trying to give up/ had given up was to read it, if it would be very helpful? Like I said I've found it interesting as someone who's never experienced it but is it a bit like talking about delicious food to someone dieting?

Geckos48 Fri 08-Nov-13 07:47:12

I've given up most drugs. I would recreationally take MDMA in the future though that's looking unlikely because it is impossible to find.

I would take acid again (in a heartbeat) and the only drug I would suggest everybody take... Is DMT.

Shonajoy Fri 08-Nov-13 07:50:23

I had it after extensive cancer surgery, it made me feel high and happy, but also very nauseous. Apparently the high and happy feeling is the one chased, but when you're addicted it's harder and harder to get that feeling so you need more and more. And eventually you're just taking it to feel normal.

I have taken a lot of recreational drugs (lsd, mdma, salvia, cannabis, speed, cocaine, mushrooms, etc.) But never heroin

A very close friend of mine (sort of an ex) died from an overdose in 2005. For years we could see it was going that way but we were powerless to stop it

Strumpetron Fri 08-Nov-13 08:15:24

I've given up most drugs. I would recreationally take MDMA in the future though that's looking unlikely because it is impossible to find

Oh Christ is it bad to say I could get you some within 20 mins? confused not an offer by the way journalists/MNHQ I was just saying! It's rife around here.

chrome100 Fri 08-Nov-13 08:28:49

Many drugs are only good the first time. I occasionally go out and take pills (should have name changed, hey I don't have kids). The first time I ever took them was AWESOME. I have never felt so....wonderful. I look back to it with great fondness. Thereafter, I've felt good and enjoyed myself but nothing like that first time. I imagine that is what it's like with heroin, always chasing that first high.

MuffCakes Fri 08-Nov-13 08:29:44

Strump I think officially its offering to be a drug dealer grin

Geckos48 Fri 08-Nov-13 08:34:36

Is it proper MDMA though strump or is it that pma/mad/mdf shite?

Crowler Fri 08-Nov-13 08:34:53

Strumpetron wink
LOL

Shonajoy hope things are looking up for you. When the morphine makes you sick in the course of cancer treatment, can't they sort that out with the anti-nausea thingys?

Geckos48 Fri 08-Nov-13 08:35:09

I once straddled a board of MDF and offered to sell it to people at tribe of frog... Good times.

whois Fri 08-Nov-13 08:49:00

Is it proper MDMA though strump or is it that pma/mad/mdf shite?

Highly unlikely to be decent quality MDMA, absolutely gold dust. However very easy to buy something called MDMA!

PP mentioned still getting a rush when they heard a particular song - I get that too occasionally and love it. Very strange the way out brains can act.

Geckos48 why DMT?

CleverClod Fri 08-Nov-13 08:53:17

I've gotten to page two of this thread and given up reading. I'm totally gobsmacked that people even think about trying drugs. I really just don't get the mindset.

I had morphine a few years ago when I wrenched my back, it was awful stuff, did nowt for me and made me dizzy and sick for about two days afterwards.

Tuhlulah Fri 08-Nov-13 09:02:14

I've always been too scared to take anything, I worry about losing control. Have to be in agony to take a paracetamol. Don't drink alcohol.

That being said, I had an epidural during very horrible and complicated labour, and it was the first time in my life I have ever felt RELAXED. Makes me wonder if I am tense all the time and this was my first experience of being relaxed, or if this 'relaxed' was special. I don't know what drugs were in the epidural, not morphine I guess. I commented on how lovely it felt and the midwife did look a bit confused and told me it shouldn't have that effect at all. Whatever. I know what I felt.

Had pethadine for post-op bone pain, effective but no special feelings.

SconeForAStroll Fri 08-Nov-13 10:04:31

Had pethadine while in labour with dd - gave me the shakes and a seemingly limitless supply of vomit.

Oramorph was ok for pain but no euphoria.

Diazepam when I first had them made me v.sleepy but fine now. Help with pain a bit.

Tramadol. Horrid. Sick whirly feeling and can feel the addictive power of them. And the withdrawal! Christ. I had to take one last week. Just one. The following day I could feel my body calling out for more, and since I didn't I have had full withdrawal - terrible terrible headaches, nausea, night sweats, insomnia.

I would much rather just be a bit drunk. wine

Geckos48 Fri 08-Nov-13 10:53:50

DMT is very quick, 20minutes tops, you smoke it and then every atom in the universe shows you how it is constructed and how perfectly in tune you are with it. It's like being give a cosmic hug from every single particle on the planet. Amazing! And over quickly for those who don't like it.

Geckos48 Fri 08-Nov-13 10:54:34

If you take a tramadol and then 30mins later take another one, it does something different in your body and makes you trip out.

Mignonette Fri 08-Nov-13 11:02:59

Gecko

I once developed a theory that predated Higgs by thirty years. I also walked down to the riverside dressed only in a plastic pink rainjacket whilst scrubbing my teeth with a toothbrush.

I have forgotten the theory but not the toots from various amazed (and delighted) male car drivers grin

All on acid. Fun days.

Crowler Fri 08-Nov-13 11:06:37

Mignonette smile

Gecko but surely that 20 mins can be infinitely long?

I took a lot of acid through the 90s and 00s. Once went round a suburban garden centre, aged 17, dressed in a lime green bikini and completely convinced I was in a James Bond film. grin

My last trip was in late 2007, a microdot plus 2.5 old tabs that had been sat around and we weren't sure if they would still work. They did shock

Real MDMA is a truly wonderful thing. Not just fun, or mental expansion, but it can really heal relationships and make you a better person (even when you're not on it) if you can hang on to some of that empathy and forgivingness.

Again, heroin is a different thing entirely. My late friend told me he first knew heroin was a problem when he realised he'd stopped taking everything else...

Branleuse Fri 08-Nov-13 11:08:53

seasick, its not just unbalanced people with something missing in their life that get addicted to heroin or anything. It can be anyone. Noone is immune.

Its very easy to get in too deep, and it be much harder to get out than you expected.

LEMisafucker Fri 08-Nov-13 11:10:19

My cousin and my best friends son were both curious about how heroin felt- they are both dead now sad

GlitteryShitandDanglyBaubles Fri 08-Nov-13 11:13:28

I've been clean 12 years.

At the time of addiction, it was the one thing that made my life feel okay. Despite the fact my life was in pieces as I was a heroin addict. Heroin was the one thing that made my huge abuse ishoos seem not so bad, irrelevant in fact. AND I didn't even inject...

Geckos48 Fri 08-Nov-13 11:14:18

DMT is produced in the brain when we dream and when we die.

So if remember having a dream that lasted ages then waking up 10mins later... That's DMT. Its an amazing drug.

It wasn't long enough for me, id like to try ayuashka

GlitteryShitandDanglyBaubles Fri 08-Nov-13 11:14:30

So YANBU it feels goooooooooooooood... but at what cost? It's a drug dealers drug, it exists so greedy feckers can make huge amounts of money from other peoples' misery. Grim.

Mignonette Fri 08-Nov-13 11:14:50

I also spent the night sitting by an open window on the top floor of a weavers cottage proclaiming to my people as the ruler of Belgium. I had a melon stuck onto the end of a knife to serve as my sceptre. i was 19.

Fortunately we had no neighbours.

Geckos48 Fri 08-Nov-13 11:19:16

The funniest thing we did on acid was at a cottage belonging to a friend. We were all tripping in the lounge and had been for days, we heard a car pull up and all got very nervous about 'who it might be man' and I looked out the window and saw the postman, so the three of us hid under the letter box and as he put the post through we pretended to be dogs and made barking noises and pulled the post through the letter box < cue much hilarity>
The next day we heard him pull up and he just put the post on the doorstep... So funny.

Willemdefoeismine Fri 08-Nov-13 11:30:11

DH and I had a conversation about heroin the other day....I asked if he'd ever tried it (he did dabble with some drugs as a student) and his answer was very telling "why would I?" was all he needed to say....

I've always been very drug-averse (square-bear) although my best friend and I did nearly try magic mushrooms when travelling but glad we didn't as many friends seem to have had very bad experiences (possibly psychotic episodes) in similar circumstances....

Branleuse Fri 08-Nov-13 11:35:48

Gecko LOL thats so funny

Geckos48 Fri 08-Nov-13 11:38:00

Magic mushroom omelettes in koh lanta were amazing!

I love mushrooms (been years) Much more gentle and physical than acid
Was a major factor in deciding to move to Wales grin free hallucinogens growing up hills!
I miss it!

Geckos48 Fri 08-Nov-13 11:43:55

Mushrooms are only more chilled if you only take a few of them!

Mignonette Fri 08-Nov-13 11:45:33

The major issue i have w/ illegal drugs now is the corruption, death and abuse in the chain of supply.

i don't believe in legalisation when linked to the 'less harmful than tobacco/alcohol' argument. The logical response to that is to make tobacco/alcohol unlawful.

I am an advocate of drug programmes which prescribe the drug of need to the user w/ tandem regular blood work and urine tests to ensure that the Px amount is being consumed and not released onto the streets. Prescription of the drug requires mandatory and regular contact with subs use agencies. The drugs could be taxed and the income ploughed into administration of the services. Plus of course the millions of pounds saved on policing because crime rates would plummet. Some of that could be diverted into funding this.

Interestingly in the 80's President Reagan placed pressure on Thatcher to close one such intiative in the Wirral. His wife was in full flow w/ her 'Just Say No' campaign' and the success of the British drug prescription initiative (dramatically plunging crime rates locally and reduced morbidity/mortality) risked the 'credibility' of the Reagan campaign. He was successful. Thatcher shut it down and within months, crime rates had returned to pre initiative levels.

I spent years working with Drugs Advisory Services as a young RMN and I helped research and set up one of the first needle exchanges. We sometimes had irate parents accusing us of encouraging their child to inject. My explanation for provision of needles etc? That their child would continue to source equipment on the street; that they would use, reuse and share; that they would risk abscesses and worse. If and when their child decided to stop using, would they as parents prefer to have an intact child returned to them with two arms, two legs? Because that is what clean equipment helps prevent. The BBV prevention goes without saying of course.

We are seeing long term injecting users with chronic and hopeless pulmonary disease now because crushing pills (especially physeptone) causes granuloma in the lungs as the un-dissolvable particle ingredients of these pills accumulate in the alveoil, destroying them. The only cure is a transplant. Very sad and I will not participate in the deserving/undeserving arguments re transplanting these people. They are all children of somebody.

My boyfriend's tried it and I don't think it was that amazing for him. But he has an insane tolerance to some stuff (he's tried most).
I've tried CWE codeine and that was lovely and snoozy but helped by the two massive pure spliffs I had alongside wink in fact I don't really remember that much about it.

Opalite Fri 08-Nov-13 11:45:44

Unfortunately I did try it in the past a few times (smoked not injected) I'd describe it as 'warm and fuzzy' and also numb in a good way, when the nothingness hit I didn't think 'this is great, I'm not stressed about this and that now', I don't know what or IF I really thought! Nothing mattered while on heroin, I felt like I was in my own bubble. Also, sounds were very muffled which helped the whole 'in my own bubble' thing
Oh and I was sick everywhere the first time which didn't feel bad at all

This was quite a while ago and in what seems like a completely different life. While the fuzzy, dreamy feelings were great, it really doesn't compare to actually being present and experiencing some of the great things the world has to offer

BelaLugosisShed Fri 08-Nov-13 12:02:55

Can't wait to see this in the Mail -" Mumsnetters are all drugged up yummy mummies" hmm
I can't believe that so many idiots are singing the praises of drugs - you know, the industry that involves people trafficking, prostitution, mass murder, addiction and all round misery, not to mention funding terrorism.

Bluetone Fri 08-Nov-13 12:03:17

This thread is interesting. I've never tried Heroin, tried everything else in my teens. Heroin was the one drug my friends would just not go there with. Me and my best friend used to take acid every weekend from the age if 13. Her brother had a stash in his room we used to steal. Penguins, microdot, strawberries. Was all good fun until that bad trip walking past a cemetery. Thinking the devil is following you is not a good feeling!

Geckos48 Fri 08-Nov-13 12:05:18

Cocaine and heroin might well fund those things but the rest of them are made my chemistry students who dropped out and mostly fund hippies

TheArticFunky Fri 08-Nov-13 12:09:30

When I was a child I had gas at the dentist. I loved it it made me feel amazing. Because of that I vowed never to touch drugs because I feared I would like them too much.

SkullyAndBones Fri 08-Nov-13 12:10:37

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lazysuzanne Fri 08-Nov-13 12:11:23

Gas at the dentist, I remember it well, but found it horrid!

TheArticFunky Fri 08-Nov-13 12:11:44

I would also never support the illegal drugs industry so that's another good reason for abstinence.

Geckos48 Fri 08-Nov-13 12:13:07

Plus if we bought our drugs (for medicinal purposes) from the third world countries that grew them, we wouldn't have nearly as many terrorists or nearly as much of a black market for them.

Mignonette Fri 08-Nov-13 12:13:46

"I'm going to try to nullify my life"

Nobody captures motivation and effect quite like Mr Lou Reed (and the song is NOT glorifying drugs if you really read the lyrics-unlike the DM).

The major issue i have w/ illegal drugs now is the corruption, death and abuse in the chain of supply.

Absolutely. I'm more aware of these issues now than I was 20 years ago and would never take anything illegal because of this.

plus I'm really old and boring now and no-one would dream of offering me any

Peetle Fri 08-Nov-13 12:27:18

Interesting reading - the experiences put me off most of them:

www.erowid.org/psychoactives/psychoactives.shtml

I've been curious about heroin too but the physical addiction and general health risks make it a complete no-no for me.

Those of you opposed purely because of links to crime - how about magic mushrooms which you can freely pick straight out of the ground? No supply chain whatsoever?

I am not an idiot, I have a PhD and now I'm a mum, drugs are pretty much a thing of the past. As posted above, I have lost three friends (one very close) to heroin and would never try it.

There is nothing wrong with an intelligent nuanced discussion which distinguishes between different drugs and acknowledges the positive effects as well as the negative

Lazysuzanne Fri 08-Nov-13 12:32:46

Illegal drugs are a very large part of the world economy, you might say that wanting to get high is pretty deep rooted in human nature.

Crowler Fri 08-Nov-13 12:33:51

I don't really see how buying drugs is that much different than having an excessively large C02 footprint, being that the effects of global warming hit the poor and vulnerable the hardest.

Unless you're living off the grid, you're probably contributing to someone's misery somewhere. Modern times we live in.

mypussyiscalledCaramel Fri 08-Nov-13 12:34:37

Why would anyone want to know that?

try it once and you are hooked.

I've seen the results of heroin. It becomes top priority above EVERY THING else, including food and family. Shoplifting becomes a way of life.

It takes YEARS to come off. Methadone is worse than heroin.

Find your local drug and alcohol centre and ask them or ask an emaciated, pale toothless person with a vacant look.

Lazysuzanne Fri 08-Nov-13 12:35:41

Heart, yes, I've found David Nutt to be quite interesting on these matters, he manages to side step all the 'moral panic' and takes a rational and pragmatic approach.

SeaSickSal Fri 08-Nov-13 12:38:15

No Branleuse it's not. That statement smacks of naivety. It's actually not that easy to become physically addicted. I took it for a reasonable amount of time including injection and did no become physically addicted.

Mental addiction is a different thing though. And if you are vulnerable and in mental pain you can become psychologically addicted from the first hit. Which is why it's overwhelmingly people who have other problems who become addicted to it.

It's not like cocaine or MDMA which takes a person from a normal state to a heightened one which can be taken for fun. It takes bad feelings away and replaces them with good ones. Normal well balanced people who take drugs are extremely unlikely to become addicted to heroin because they don't have the psychological need to remove the pain.

I have personal experience of it, I have friends who have overcome addictions to it and some people who I once called friends are still on it with habits of more than a decades standing. I've also in recent years had quite some contact with addicts through my. Work in the NHS.

Overwhelmingly heroin addicts are people with a long history of problems. They've often been failed by their parents, the care system and the NHS before they get addicted.

Even recovery for many people is simply long term methadone use because their problems are simply too painful to deal with.

Believe me, children with normal in traumatic backgrounds will not one day wake up, smoke some heroin and then become hopeless addicts. There's normally years and years of problems before they come to that point.

whois Fri 08-Nov-13 12:49:14

can't believe that so many idiots are singing the praises of drugs - you know, the industry that involves people trafficking, prostitution, mass murder, addiction and all round misery, not to mention funding terrorism

Through your hugely ignorant statement you do hit on a key point. The illegality drives a corrupt market, the 'war on drugs' has done nothing to take drug revenues out of the hands of criminals. Another reason why decriminalising and controlling substances to some extent would be beneficial.

I would never advocate people take drugs. All I can say is that, in my experience, drug use can be an amazing and mind-expanding and life-enhancing experience. There's a fine line between drug use and drug ab use though, and when the line is crossed its hard to come back from that.

I know a lot of people that like taking drugs ( coke, MDMA, mushrooms mainly) and as we get older the frequency and amount is tailing off. I don't know anyone with a problem. We are all intelligent and highflying professionals with solid family backgrounds and are in normal, loving and long term relationships. We would be your poster- child of respectability, if you ignore occasional weekend or Ibiza/Glasto activities.

Ah, to be back in uni again and not have to consider required Monday morning work performance as a limiting factor to Saturday night fun.

As an aside, taking prescribed drugs eg diazipam or transform while in pain produces a very different effect from taking them 'recreationally'. The impact of drugs varies from person to person substantially based on your current state of mind and predisposition to effects.

whois Fri 08-Nov-13 12:53:00

Or transform? Bloody phone. Was trying to say morphine.

In my very non-scientific study I note a strong correlation between high IQ and enjoyment of hallucinogens.

complexnumber Fri 08-Nov-13 13:51:09

On reflection, I have just realised that it has been over 20 years since I last had any illegal drugs.

I have not even heard of some of the stuff being mentioned on this thread!

I suppose that's a good thing

Bumpsadaisie Fri 08-Nov-13 14:00:49

I've had morphine in hospital. It makes you feel warm calm and lovely and slightly woozy. I could so be a heroin addict if is been born into different circs.

Mignonette Fri 08-Nov-13 14:07:00

The Stuart Walton book I linked to upthread is full of fascinating studies and information about the urge to experience life through an altered consciousness.

I would say that this is unique amongst secondary drives in that taken too far it will supercede those primary drives that are in place to keep us alive- the need to drink, eat, sleep and procreate.

Thus the secondary drive to get loaded ends up masquerading as a primary one. It falls to the bottom layer of Maslow's Hierarchy Of Needs from a purely subjective point of view.

The role of the therapist? In part it is to push it back up again so the user can attend to the life maintaining and enhancing activities of daily life.

Walton writes of an experiment designed to look at how drug intoxication affects social functioning in tiny shoal fish. What was expected was that the non intoxicated fish would reject the intoxocated ones. What actually happened was that the intoxicated fish isolated themselves en masse. I found this interesting as applied to the culture that can develop around drug use and the use of each particular drug-The fashions, tastes in music, lifestyle, philosophical and cultural viewpoints and how a user identifies as part of a 'tribe'.

The allure of drugs for some is of course the formation of a 'family group' or social group within their using circle when they may well come from a very dysfunctional and loose family structure. This can be very comforting and seductive even with the associated tensions and considerable stress factors an addiction places upon both individual and group.

BelaLugosisShed Fri 08-Nov-13 14:09:13

"a strong correlation between high IQ and enjoyment of hallucinogens"

I've got a high IQ, DD is genius level, I've never felt the need to use drugs, not even normal cigarettes, DD didn't touch drugs at University, she thinks drug users are pathetic, as do I.
I can understand people with no hope and miserable lives using drugs, I can't understand intelligent professionals, for it to be normalised like it is on this thread is quite sickening.
You can expand your mind and enhance your life by doing useful and productive things, not by being selfish and stupid.

Crowler Fri 08-Nov-13 14:32:36

If you could see through your red haze, you might consider the possibility that the IQ/drug intake comment was a bit tongue in cheek.

Mignonette Fri 08-Nov-13 14:35:58

Crowler grin.

Plenty of people can multi task- they can use recreationally and be high functioning professionals w/ happy well adjusted high functioning non drug using children......

AngelicaFirestar Fri 08-Nov-13 15:00:06

I was told that you know all those little everyday aches and pains that you just live with? They all go and you feel wonderful.

Pretty terrible come downs though.

lolaisafuckertoo Fri 08-Nov-13 15:21:11

life becomes hopeless and miserable through drugs. sometimes it starts out that way but not always. it provides a wonderful buffer between self and the world, hence the desire to continue that.
I have worked with substance misusers. Imagine the variety of people you see as you walk down a street and that is the profile. no given predetermination I would also dismiss the "addictive personality" argument. some change, do change, others don't through selfishness and fear of what awaits them.
crack is just fucking nasty and sucks the life out of humans. Keith RIchards has successfully navigated a life on heroin as he was possibly having Rolls Royce quality, not the blend of baking soda, brick dust and god knows what else there is in it. I personally think he made it glamorous in a way most users don't experience him.
Haing said all that, I have codeine for ongoing back problems. some days it is worse than others and my body greets the codeine with a joy and warmth that scares me. It might be because the pains go, or just it feels lovely.
Seeing suppurating ulcers, legless users who have injected just once too often into the groin or the people reduced to filling a 10ml barrel (minus a needle) and popping it up their anal passage (as they do not have asingle vein left....heroin holds no glamour for me.....though codeine (which is converted to morphine in the liver) is a part of my life. Am I a hypocrite? OFten think it.

BerstieSpotts Fri 08-Nov-13 15:33:47

I do find it interesting that most people I know who have come off a very addictive drug such as heroin and alcohol tend to replace it with something which provides a similar kind of fulfilment. For example religion (I have heard a few ex-addicts credit "finding God" with their ability to let the substance abuse go) and my mum is fairly into the spiritual healing "scene" and apparently, a lot of ex-addicts find that they get a similar feeling from healing as they did from being on the drug.

HotDogSlaughter Fri 08-Nov-13 15:36:36

This thread is so fascinating.

Timetoask Fri 08-Nov-13 15:39:55

This thread makes me so worried about my sons. If grown women are wondering what a stupid drug makes them feel like, what are we to expect from young impressionable teenagers.

I have never tried any drug. I have no interest in trying any, never.

BerstieSpotts Fri 08-Nov-13 15:41:47

There's a huge difference between wondering what something is like and wanting to try it.

I have often wondered what it would feel like to die, doesn't mean I'm suicidal!

We can be interested, theoretically, in what it would feel like to take a drug, without having any interest, practically, in taking it.

Like wondering idly what it's like to be a foot taller or have a penis.

DioneTheDiabolist Fri 08-Nov-13 15:45:01

People wonder all sorts of things all the time.

whois Fri 08-Nov-13 15:46:55

If you could see through your red haze, you might consider the possibility that the IQ/drug intake comment was a bit tongue in cheek

Yes it was ;-)

It's an extremely small sample size of about 10 with massive selection bias!

Anyway BelaLugosisShed you mistake correlation with causation, tsk tsk not very clever of you. I didn't say being a genius makes you want to try drugs. Just that out of the people I know (who already take drugs) those that are the most interested in hallucinogens typically have the highest IQs.

I think it's interesting as the common myth would be that only idiot and sad people take drugs. Which isn't my experience at all.

laza222 Fri 08-Nov-13 15:48:15

I know plenty of people here who have tried or will do MDMA, coke, weed, pills, magic mushrooms, but none would consider touching heroine. Where as my friend who lived in the states was horrified when she discovered her boyfriend over there had taken heroine. He seemed to imply that it was just much more of a 'standard' drug among recreational drug takers in the UK where as she described it to him as a 'dirty drug' and couldn't understand him touching it. I've also noticed the same on several TV programmes.

I'd be interested to know of anyone who has more experience of drug culture in the states if this is true. And if so, why they think it is? It's a difference that really intrigues me.

Bela you are extremely insulting to people who have been having an open and interesting discussion - calling anyone who is less close-minded than you "pathetic" or "idiots". I wonder why you are so angry about this.

I and many others who've had positive experiences have also seen the worst effects of drugs up close and personal; the fact that we're not dismissing every single substance you can put into your body as the province of idiots should tell you something.

Do you take paracetamol or ibuprofen, or drink coffee or alcohol? If so you're drawing a distinction where none exists. On the basis of what, legality? The legality of substances changes all the time. Magic mushrooms weren't illegal when I started taking them (only if you prepared them in any way). 'Legal highs' are among the most dangerous substances around.

I have seen friends lost to heroin and crack, and I've also seen the most intelligent, talented, kind people I know become even more creative, empathetic and intelligent through the wise and careful use of psychoactive substances.

whois Fri 08-Nov-13 15:57:09

Anyway. I could talk about drug use for hours - I find it absolutely fascinating. The different effect on people, differing responses, why some people love ket but aren't bothered by coke etc How people deal with the after effects, why do they become a problem for some people. Really fascinating intersection between neuroscience, chemistry and psychology.

Crowler Fri 08-Nov-13 15:57:58

laza222 I wouldn't say I'm "experienced" but I've known a fair few casual drug users - heroin and crack are considered no-go zones. I had to pick my jaw up off the ground when a very, very good friend's husband told me that he had regularly smoked heroin while living in S. America. I had never actually met anyone before who had tried it (and I'm not really scandalized by drug use as some people on this thread are).

No no whois , honestly, didn't you get the memo? They're all selfish, stupid idiots. Case closed wink

Crowler Fri 08-Nov-13 15:59:03

I think Bela is actually Nancy Reagan.

Thinking about it, I am heartened by this thread. If so many dozens of women have wondered about drugs without ever taking any, that means they aren't as tempting as some people worry they might be.

whois Fri 08-Nov-13 16:05:17

'Legal highs' are among the most dangerous substances around

Very true. And very worrying.

When M-cat became big (plant food, miaw miaw) it was extreme scary seeing non-drug taking acquaintances hoovering that up their noses in huge quantities. Because it was legal and therefore safe in their minds. They had no concept of dosage or being careful, or any coping mechanisms for the come downs. No ability to cut off and deal with the 'more-ish-ness'. it was just like people go out and smash loads of alcohol but with a very strong and unknown compound. Not cool.

The m-cat craze actually made me reconsider my view point on decriminalisation of drugs, because it proved that most of the country can't be trusted around mind-altering substances ( clearly demonstrated by our disgusting bing drinking culture).

Mignonette Fri 08-Nov-13 16:06:44

There is often a 'hierarchy of drugs' amongst users. Although heroin is rightly regarded as the end stage drug, there is also the perception and image of it as at the top of a hierarchy. Injectors are seen in the same way. Solvents are beyond the pale. Benzo's were seen as drugs for people who didn't have 'the balls' to use 'real drug'. Polydrug users were seen as less reliable. Heroin users tend to congregate because unlike many other drugs, they suffer physically without it and seek comradeship and support through that.

Russell Brand alluded to this once when he described his own smoking of heroin and the subsequent addiction. He stated in an interview "I pause to reflect and regret that I don’t know how to fix, only smoke, feeling inferior even in the manner of my using"

noddyholder Fri 08-Nov-13 16:07:50

I smoked it once in the 80s My brother did too and went on to be addicted for 7 years.

whois Fri 08-Nov-13 16:09:11

heartisaapade I will admit to missing that memo ;-)

Geckos48 Fri 08-Nov-13 16:28:43

I have to say that the current trend of snorting ketamine is as much or more of a problem than injecting heroin. In fact if they were injecting it, it would cause far less problems.

If I was going to die, absolutely no chance of living. I would try it.

whois Fri 08-Nov-13 16:39:16

In fact if they were injecting it, it would cause far less problems

How come? I know there are long term bladder problems associated with ket but what's the difference between harm from injecting and snorting?

Geckos48 Fri 08-Nov-13 16:49:15

It causes less problems when injected because it's not in an un dissolvable form. It also causes ridiculous damage to the nasal cavity because of how hard it is. They basically cook it into a crystal so that it is snortable and then the body has to re-convert it back into something digestible. So weird.

BMW6 Fri 08-Nov-13 17:01:55

One of my sisters BIL was a severe Herorin addict for many years.
Finally got clean, but sadly developed Cancer in his 40's.

The horrific thing is, they couldn't control his pain at the end, because of his previous drug abuse, so the poor man died in absolute agony.

Gossipmonster Fri 08-Nov-13 17:17:13

I was a heroin addict for 3 yrs.

It wasn't much fun and it makes very sick.

The withdrawals, homelessness and becoming a social outcast and nearly dying several times were not outweighed by the rather nice high in the end for me.

HTH.

laza222 Fri 08-Nov-13 18:01:58

That's my experience too Crowler. I wonder what has made it more acceptable in the USA than here. Was there a big campaign against it for example. When I started secondary school it was shortly after the death of Leah Betts. We had it drummed into us how awful ecstasy was and as it result, it seemed not many people my age were interested in it. I'm approaching 30 now and I know a few people who have taken it in the last few years but it was always something that people of my age seemed to be quite cautious of until their mid 20s.

Crystal meth seems to be far bigger over in the USA as well. A friend who is gay has said that it is quite big among the gay scene over here, however I've never heard of anyone using it or anyone having come across it otherwise.

Are their drugs in the recreational drug scene in the US that people are as strongly against, as people in UK culture are of heroine I wonder?

laza222 Fri 08-Nov-13 18:03:40

Well done to all those on here who have managed to beat their addiction to heroine by the way. Addiction must be an awful thing to over come and I have much respect for those who have managed to battle through.

Geckos48 Fri 08-Nov-13 18:10:04

Leah betts died because of lack of education rather than of an extasy overdose, she literally drowned herself from the inside out.

ChestyNut Fri 08-Nov-13 18:11:48

gossip well done on stopping thanks

In my job I've seen what drug addiction does to people and their friends and family so would never try heroin.

But....I had IV morphine after an accident and it was the most amazing feeling. No pain, nothing mattered, warm, fuzzy and time passed in a blink!

Crowler Fri 08-Nov-13 18:15:37

Laza even before Breaking Bad - crystal meth was considered ruinous in the US. It's fantastically addictive.

Crowler Fri 08-Nov-13 18:15:59

And, hats off to gossip indeed.

laza222 Fri 08-Nov-13 18:19:29

Geckos yes, I'm aware of that but from what I understand, the extreme thirst she felt was due to her taking the drug. Is that right (I could be wrong and imagine it could be a combination of the ecstasy, alcohol, possibly smoking, e.t.c... In any case, the message was hammered home so much to my generation (at least in the area I grew up in) that me and my peers were terrified of it until we were much older and didn't touch it. I was convinced that if I touched it then I would be thirsty, drink lots of water and drown my brain.

The one thing that the drugs education after Leah Betts' death did make me aware of was the importance of knowing the effects of the drug you were taking and how to act if things go wrong, for other people's sake as much as anyone else.

laza222 Fri 08-Nov-13 18:20:42

crowler it looks like an awful drug!

Geckos48 Fri 08-Nov-13 18:25:48

No there was no excess thirst, she freaked out and drank litres and litres of water thinking that it was what you had to do when on e's and her mother then also gave her a further 2 litres of water (all in the space of an hour or so)

She drank so much water that she drowned herself, horrible.

But it could have been prevented with proper education. The only time you would need to drink loads on e's is when dancing loads, like you would with any exercise. E's don't make you need to drink, they make you want to dance.

She got hot and freaked out and sadly there was nobody there who had the education about the drug to help her. Tragic

DioneTheDiabolist Fri 08-Nov-13 18:26:57

There used to be a Mushoom Shop in Dublin (when they were legal). The owner would ask how many people and portion it correctly, along with telling you about what each mushroom was like, how long it would last, what would bring you up & down etc.

The owners of Head shops are not allowed to do this, so people end up taking too much/not knowing what to expect.

Geckos48 Fri 08-Nov-13 18:28:23

People have died from taking too much e. Heart attack from too much or a chemical reaction but very few. I think around 10 to date.

Leah betts was an example of the damage of scare mongering and the number of deaths from drugs pretending to be MDMA has far, far exceeded the issues caused by the drug itself.

DiaryOfAWimpyMum Fri 08-Nov-13 18:29:40

My xh was/is an addict, I detest heroin, I feel edgy when I see tin foil in the house too as I used to spend my days scouring the house for evidence of xh using.

Ive tried it a few times, never became addicted and felt sick

laza222 Fri 08-Nov-13 18:38:24

Thanks Gecko that's really interesting to know. Very sad too. I've always thought through long and hard and researched any drug I've tried and have told my nephews that if they are going to take drugs then they must educate themselves as much as possible before doing it.

If you are going to experiment it's useful to know what to do if something goes wrong and even just to know how it is likely to make you feel so you understand what's happening if you start to panic.

Although the ecstasy education scared me away from it as a teen, I think education about drugs should be realistic. People will take them if they want to, knowing what to do if something doesn't go to plan is so, so important IMO.

laza222 Fri 08-Nov-13 18:39:08

diary that's sad. I'm very sorry you've been through that.

AutumnFire Fri 08-Nov-13 18:49:42

I agree wholeheartedly with those who say certain drugs (particularly dissociatives in my experience) take away a layer of pain that you likely won't appreciate if you aren't in pain to begin with.

Its like the difference between giving nurofen to someone who's happy and healthy, or giving it to someone who has a banging headache, or crampy period pains. The former won't notice much of anything at all, and the latter will experience very welcome relief.

Its just that with mental health, especially when caused by long-term abuse, its chronic... it doesn't go away. I do wonder if in the future we might not look back on these times as barbaric, when we denied people simple pharmaceutical treatments that could literally take their mental pain away. There are many high-functioning addicts who are lucky enough to have access to the medicine that helps them, and live a full and fulfilling life as a result. The rest... despair and dirty street drugs drive them to being the kind of drug addict you see on the street.

And the chain of supply? It's hideous. But it doesn't have to be. Hospitals source all these same drugs (from cannabis to ketamine to heroin) without any of the same issues associated with illegally sourced drugs.

ziggiestardust Fri 08-Nov-13 18:51:02

I find reading about the effects of drugs on different people really interesting. I had morphine given intravenously and orally after my appendix ruptured.

I remember relief at the pain having stopped, but also as the nurse injected it; I could feel the heaviness of it moving up the inside of my arm, up the right side of my neck, past my ear and then BAM! The pain was gone and it felt like I'd been hit with a wooly sledgehammer. I was SO happy the pain had stopped, but it did make me feel very far away, like there was a disconnect between me and reality. I was worried no one could hear me blush I also felt quite sick (I think I was sick) and I was happier when it was out of my system tbh.

I have never taken any illegal drug in my life, fwiw.

ziggiestardust Fri 08-Nov-13 18:54:29

autumn, that is a really interesting thought regarding mental illness. I had never thought of it that way before. Thank you for that insight.

fanjofarrow Fri 08-Nov-13 19:13:49

I took various recreational drugs for about a year when I was in my late teens, mainly speed (awful stuff), the occasional acid tab and the odd E pill, as well as smoking too mich hash.

I have never taken heroin. I did once take methodone, and it was horrific. I couldn't even keep water down for about 18 hours, and felt like death. If that's what heroin is like, I'll pass!

I gave up drugs completely in 1997, apart from the occasional spliff during my uni years. I doubt my poor brain could take it these days!

fanjofarrow Fri 08-Nov-13 19:16:10

As for why I took all that shite, at the time it was partly curiosity and partly circumstance. I'd been anti-drugs for years before I started.

I later worked out that I was self-medicating to deal with some pretty serious problems from my childhood. Once I figured that out, I quit.

AutumnFire Fri 08-Nov-13 19:27:14

Thanks ziggie. And TRIGGER WARNING

I'm coming at it from the perspective of someone who is 'one of the lucky ones'.

Post traumatic stress disorder, depression, and a constant level of high anxiety in my case from a lifetime of physical, emotional, and sexual abuse including forced home abortion at 14 years old.

I've been through the system. Have had countless counselling sessions, and cycled through various anti-depressants and anxiolytics. Suicide attempts and inpatient time. I had reached despair and was resigned to a short life.

Only one thing helped me, and it happens to be illegal. I was 'lucky' enough to find a reliable, clean source. And almost ten years later I have a life, and am something approaching happy. Have worked enough to buy myself an education and then a better job.

I just wish to God that my pain-reliever (and that is exactly what it is), didn't make me technically a criminal. And that's what I am, a law-breaker, an identity I despise.

I want nothing but to live a healthy and productive life, and be a useful member of society. I wish no harm to anyone, but I would take to the streets and lose everything I have worked for in order to remain free of all-encompassing pain and despair, if that was the only option I had.

They're not a miracle cure, by no means. And in the wrong hands can do untold damage. But for many people like me, they are like a gasp of air when you've been drowning.

I have tried it and if you like feeling numb and generally vegetizing you might like it. For me it was unsociable, slightly boring and highly overated.

Geckos48 Fri 08-Nov-13 20:11:39

Strictly speaking autumn you're not a criminal unless you get caught ;)

Cannabis is amazing, it assists opiates to such a level that a heavy user can reduce their amount by up to two thirds.
Which means if the pain gets worse, there is room for more when needed. We need to start using cannabis and heroin properly.

I also think we need to use MDMA and psychedelics properly, but that's a different story.

I think anyone more interested should read 'food of the gods' and 'the cosmic serpent' as a matter of urgency ;)

Gossipmonster Fri 08-Nov-13 20:39:41

I became a drugs worker with teenagers and then used go into schools educating secondary age kids about the facts about drugs (inc the good bits - not divulging my own story) so they could make an informed choice.

I now run a project for teenagers which supports them with all issues including drugs related ones and we have a team of volunteer counsellor and sexual health nurses.

<outs self>

CoteDAzur Fri 08-Nov-13 20:59:36

I haven't tried heroin - just not interested in a substance that makes people steal from friends & prostitute themselves for the next hit, regardless of how fun it might be.

Anyway, I hated the morphine I was given after my C-section - felt totally zonked out, couldn't sleep, wasn't awake. If that is what heroin is like, I can't imagine that I have missed much. Especially when compared with E, for example, which is the most intense, the happiest, most wonderful kind of fun. It's not addictive, and judging by the handful of people it has reputedly damaged in 30 years of widespread use, very very safe.

Gossipmonster Fri 08-Nov-13 21:16:01

Ecstasy isn't harmless there is a lot of evidence that suggests people who used a lot of it in the 80s and 90s now have very low serotonin levels (or the brain is unable to produce a lot of it) which has led to experiences of bouts of depression.

Whatever you borrow from your body you eventually have to give back.

Geckos48 Fri 08-Nov-13 21:29:53

MDMA is very safe when compared with the alternative. No drug use had no side effects.

Mignonette Fri 08-Nov-13 21:41:06

I find it interesting that this thread stands out for its lack of arguing, bickering and irateness.

Many of the people posting have either used drugs, understand their use and are tolerant of others who do so.

Just saying......smile

InTheFace Fri 08-Nov-13 21:42:27

I've always wanted to know what it feels like to be high, but have never dared as I know I have an addictive personality. I don't even let myself buy scratchcards.

Having said that, as I've got older, in all areas I have become more respectful of my body. When I was younger I very much took it for granted. Now, I find myself eating all manner of organic shite and choosing parabrn-free cosmetics etc. Which all mean that I can't now contemplate putting anything synthetic, or impure in my body.

Give me the purest opiate on earth, I might give it a go as a last hurrah, on my way to meet my maker. Lreferably, give it to me straight from source. Until then...nah.

(disclaimer: I know most mainstream organic schmorganic stuff is still dull if crap, I just kid myself it's full of less crap. No room for a vegetable patch in my tenth floor flat.)

InTheFace Fri 08-Nov-13 21:44:43

Oh man, sorry for typos.

Preferably, full of crap.

BerstieSpotts Fri 08-Nov-13 21:50:17

Gossip flowers the kind of service you run is absolutely invaluable, priceless.

Mignonette Fri 08-Nov-13 21:50:59

You do know that unless the rain falling on crops is organic, there is no such thing as clean food? smile All that organic should be seen to mean is that no additional toxins are added to it. Forgive me if that is indeed what it means.

How about hydroponically grown Opium then? wink

CoteDAzur Fri 08-Nov-13 21:53:18

Gossip - Anything is toxic in high doses.

Take 4 x 1g paracetamol per day for just a week and see what happens to your liver.

Re 'depression' - I don't know how many former E users you know but i know loads. Without exception, they are as happy as they were when we were all partying about 15 years ago. I don't know how much you need to use to mess up your brain but it must be an awfully (impossibly) high amount.

BerstieSpotts Fri 08-Nov-13 22:02:30

For me personally it's not a place I want to go back to. I never seriously used drugs but I find being around people who habitually or socially use drugs difficult. Yes, some people use drugs (I smoke and drink, so I suppose I can't say too much!) responsibly and have a life around it, and I can't rule out ever using another drug in my life, but not while I'm living with my children.

I find it very hard to see people's lives taken over by it. And often even being on the edge of those social circles, or using something occasionally, is very difficult. It tends to (in my experience) lead you to some not very nice people, and while I know that not-very-nice people exist in all parts of life, even the "naice"est, I just find it a difficult environment to be around. I'm probably not explaining myself very well, and coming across snobby which is not what I mean at all.

I am sorry to hear about your pain Autumn. I also think it's a shame that something which helps you is so taboo and potentially problematic.

thenightsky Fri 08-Nov-13 22:11:28

I tried pretty much everything in the late 70s. Ecstasy didn't exist I've never tried that.

Nothing was that good I tried it again.

Gossipmonster Fri 08-Nov-13 22:14:10

I know that I have seen the research and brain scans which I'm pretty sure is an accurate measure.

InTheFace Fri 08-Nov-13 22:20:29

Hydroponically grown opium, there has to be a market for that <dons Walter White style overalls and practices saying "biiitch>".

Actually, having read all (yes, all - it was a quiet patch at work) the UK's legislation on organic agriculture, organic food is very much full of chemicals and toxins. It's just that those chemicals and toxins are considered less damaging to (in a roundabout way, there's no direct correlation) the land on which the produce is grown. In fact, organic food has nothing to do with human health, directly. It is entirely the farming community lobbying Parliament to allow them to not suffer the brutal consequences of the free market at the cost of being able to rest their land and rotate their crops and as a consequence offer a supposedly superior quality product (at a higher cost than conventionally grown produce). This kind of produce can't be worse than non-organic, which is why people buy it. but it's not great, either. anyone who's eaten home grown produce will know this. And don't get me started on organic meats/poultry.

Sorry, don't want to derail thread. Back to the drugs.

Mignonette Fri 08-Nov-13 22:22:28

IntheFace

Back to the drugs - what a great sign off!

yes Hydroponically grown opium but you'd need quite a tall ceiling and can you imagine the soporific atmosphere of that room? Would any harvesting actually get done grin?

laza222 Fri 08-Nov-13 22:30:38

Autumn thank you for sharing your story. It's interesting to hear and I think you should be very proud of yourself for coming through

Gossip your service is so important and valuable to so many.

Lazysuzanne Fri 08-Nov-13 22:44:22

Bertie, you dont come across as snobby at all...seems to me that you're just explaining that you're not comfortable with drug use and things that are often concurrent with it.

Of course many of those things are due to the illegality of the substances concerned

BerstieSpotts Fri 08-Nov-13 23:09:43

Yes it is Suzanne. Although I do think on balance that it's probably best off illegal, perhaps available on prescription for medical reasons. There was a very good point made a few pages back about how people act around "legal highs".

Plus I think that sometimes if something is "officially" recommended against (or even illegal) because it is risky, it does make people think twice and perhaps do a bit of research before they enter into it.

Lazysuzanne Fri 08-Nov-13 23:46:36

you might be right about legalisation Bertie I'm mainly on the fence but it's very difficult to predict how these sorts of things will pan out, there are so many variables to consider, the law of unintended consequences and all that.

If I had to take a punt I'd say that legalisation of many currently illegal rec drugs will come in the next decade or two, but thats just a guess...time will tell

SeaSickSal Fri 08-Nov-13 23:59:43

CotedAzur it's not fun. People don't get addicted to heroin, prostitute themselves and steal because it's 'fun'.

As Autumn so eloquently said it's taken by most addicts as a way to numb overwhelming mental pain.

Sebastian described it as or me it was 'unsociable, slightly boring and highly overated.' That's what it's going to be like for most well balanced happy people if they take it.

It's not like E, it's a means to an end, but it's not fun.

laza222 Sat 09-Nov-13 00:10:36

I've been discussing this with my husband tonight. I've concluded that I think some drugs should be legalised. Heavily, heavily regulated but legalised. Taxed heavily as well which could then go back into drug education programmes and rehabilitation programmes. The advantage would be taxes to fund those education programmes, the drugs would be regulated and so non of the additional rubbish in them and hopefully the price even with tax would be cheaper than they are illegally. I have no idea if this works out economically but I think if it could be done, it might be a sensible way of doing things.

I'm sure there are loads of flaws to this but the way things are at the moment don't seem to work either.

VerySmallSqueak Sat 09-Nov-13 00:12:58

I've done my share of stuff,but never wondered what heroin is like.

I think I've always known it's too big a beast for me to want to get involved with. And I've been fortunate enough not to have known anyone taking heroin at the time I knew them so there was no ready availability.

The other thing I drew the line at was glue sniffing.Not sure why really - maybe because it was the casuals doing it,and I wasn't really in that scene....(that makes me feel so very very old....)

I was kind of out of the scene by the time e's came along so that was never a dilemma.

SeaSickSal Sat 09-Nov-13 00:19:00

Laza I agree with that. I think if heroin addicts were given heroin on prescription the number of addicts would fall dramatically.

Dealer want addicts who will become addicted to the drug and provide them with a reliable source of income as they keep buying the drug when they are addicted.

If that income stream is taken away because they have it prescribed then what would be the point in dealing it in the first place when the income will disappear when they can have it prescribed?

I think it would make the number of pushers trying to get people hooked on it fall dramatically.

LegoCaltrops Sat 09-Nov-13 00:23:23

I know someone who used to take a variety of drugs. Once he tried heroin, he quit them all. He said it was because he could see how easy it would be to get sucked into the drug scene more than he already was, & end up a heroin addict. AFAIK he's never touched anything stronger than booze or cigarettes since. Really scared him as he knew he didn't have the willpower to keep saying no if he was around it.

Lazysuzanne Sat 09-Nov-13 00:43:26

if drugs were legalised what would all the drug dealers do...work in macdonalds...?

RhondaJean Sat 09-Nov-13 00:49:53

Without ever having tried it, I know heroin isn't for me. It's for people with something to escape and I have nothing to hide from.

They gave me morphine after my c section for dd2 and I hated it. Weird spaced out dream feeling, I didn't feel safe and I didn't feel in less pain. I wanted to be sharp and know what was happening, I had a preemie baby a sheet white DH and a massive wound on my stomach, I didn't need to be elsewhere.

When I had septicemia and nearly died, it was the best thing ever. I had gone through three and a half days of peritonitis with no painkillers, 42 degree temp and towards the end couldnt move. I didn't want to be there. The pain was so immense I just wanted it to stop. I can only use my own experience to base things on but on those two events, it's for people who don't want to be there and dealing with things because it takes you away from it.

Geckos48 Sat 09-Nov-13 06:52:12

gossip unless you've seen tbse exact brain scans from the same people who have not used exstacy then the research is flawed.

Its impossible to know if folk who are prone to depression are more lkely to use exstacy or if exstacy causes depressiom. Same as the cannabis/schizophrenia link.

Geckos48 Sat 09-Nov-13 07:06:07

Organic means tested soil, less artificial spray on the crops (pesticides) the thought is that all the non-organic produce use as much pesticide possible meaning that our bodies ingest far too much of it.

I wish I could still afford organic sad

Mignonette Sat 09-Nov-13 07:56:07

Nothing wrong with working in MacDonalds. They work bloody hard. I don't like seeing the jobs there seen as a pejorative.

MadAsFish Sat 09-Nov-13 08:22:19

try it once and you are hooked.

This is such a pervasive myth, and obviously untrue, since multiple posters have said they tried it once and hated it.
I agree with what AutumnFire said - it's a painkiller for mental pain, and sometimes that's what people need.
I think legalising it and regulating it would be the best approach (for this drug, not necessarily for others). Not only does a major revenue stream disappear, it also makes it kind of uncool, and removes some of the 'ooh, how edgy!' mystique.
Oh, and I have never, ever, met a drug 'pusher'. Pretty much as soon as the news gets around that someone is dealing, their door is nearly broken down by the rush. Pushing stuff isn't necessary.

BerstieSpotts Sat 09-Nov-13 08:29:17

Pushing stuff IME tends to be by friends or partners. Usually slightly older friends or partners who quite like the feeling of having power over someone younger and more vulnerable. But they don't want to sell it to you, so not the same as the idea of the "drugs pusher".

I do remember ridiculous stories about "When you start secondary school there is a tree in the playground and if you stand under it it means you want drugs and the big kids will MAKE you take them" hmm

Mignonette Sat 09-Nov-13 08:30:25

Yes, the old myth of dealers hanging out by the school gate.

They need to be secretive to avoid detection. There is often a slight shortage or interruption of supply so only enough at a given time for known customers. Introducing yourself and getting known to dealers (especially in smaller towns) takes time. They won't sell to anybody. You tend to be introduced by a regular and have to really seek it out. Often dealers are users buying a gram/two grams or whatever and selling on some of it to existing users in order to fund his own habit. On the 'street, this is the most commonly occurring system of distribution.

Gossipmonster Sat 09-Nov-13 08:30:49

There is no link with Cannabis and Schizophrenia - is Cannabis and Psychosis - your knowledge is flawed.

Mignonette Sat 09-Nov-13 08:35:52

Gossip I have nursed many many floridly psychotic teenagers who have been heavily indulging in cannabis. They stabilise, are discharged off their sections and when they relapse it is nearly always because they started smoking again.

This may be in part, an acquired technique of self medication also but the link between cannabis and psychosis is clear.

They are quite shockingly psychotic too. They get sick so quickly they are admitted in a florid state that would take other people with a psychotic type illness some months to develop.

MorrisZapp Sat 09-Nov-13 08:37:27

Yes that's a good point. I've lived my whole life in major cities, and spent many years partying fairly hard. I've never been offered anything more interesting than an occasional joint. Nobody has pushed anything near me.

Geckos48 Sat 09-Nov-13 09:20:56

I was talking about cannabis and schizophrenia, not cannabis psychosis.

Mignonette Sat 09-Nov-13 09:22:18

I don't think she gets it Gossip wink.

CharlotteBronteSaurus Sat 09-Nov-13 09:33:06

lastest research indicates that "cannabis psychosis" is a prodrome of schizophrenia. at least 3/4 of people who experience "cannabis psychosis" go on to receive a diagnosis of another psychotic disorder (schizophrenia/schizoaffective disorder) within one year.

with the patients I see, the onset on heavy cannabis use generally predates any prodromal symptoms. recent studies do not support the "self-medication" theories.

Mignonette Sat 09-Nov-13 09:46:04

I am talking of self medication in the very broadest sense, not just applied to one disorder (whether it be MI or any other disease/condition). I related it to Psychosis, yes but only in terms of 'may'. Neither POV can be definitively 'proven' as of yet sadly.

Crowler Sat 09-Nov-13 09:47:30

I am not crazy about pot. I have seen it drain the life out of people.

Mignonette Sat 09-Nov-13 09:49:19

Yes of course, the onset of cannabis use predates any psychosis in the general sense. W/ my patients, they have been using for quite some time w/ associated decline in self care and ADL's and then go on to display psychotic symptomatology.

However the use of a drug may well be linked by the patient with the easing of their symptoms whether that be an illusion or not.

Crowler Sat 09-Nov-13 09:51:45

Mignonette- patients? I somehow missed this. Do you work with addicts?

DownstairsMixUp Sat 09-Nov-13 09:53:57

I would try it if i knew i was going to die (terminal illness or whatever) just once. But would never try it ever really aside from that.

Lazysuzanne Sat 09-Nov-13 10:17:03

Re Macdonalds, my point was that drug dealers if drugs were legalized drug dealers would probably look for some other lucrative but illegal source of easy money, rather than taking a regular job.

I'd imagine much of the pressure to keep drugs illegal comes from the criminal supply networks who profit from illegal drug sales.

igotaway Sat 09-Nov-13 11:11:16

My son is a heroin addict. I have not read many of the posts, but AutumnFire's. She has described it so well.

My son is 23 years old and has been taking it for 2 years. I found out a year ago. His source is clean too.

He suffers from the most debilitating chronic depression and has had it most of his life. He has had counselling, ad's, you name it, he's tried everything to learn to live with it - nothing worked for him so he went straight to the top, he started self medicating by injecting heroin.

Heroin makes HIM feel like YOU on a normal day He can live his life without his brain screaming at him. By using, his pain and despair is relieved.

He doesn't steal, or prostitute himself for fun. This is not fun, it isn't used for 'fun'. It keeps him alive and that is all I care about. He will use it and then come off it for a few weeks and when he can stand no more of the chaos, he will go back to using.

I wish it was on prescription to be honest, and I know by saying that, many of you will think badly of me, but really heroin is the only thing that keeps him sane and alive.

Lazysuzanne Sat 09-Nov-13 11:29:15

There was recently a guardian science podcast where opium was discussed as a drug preferable to current psychiatric drug
www.theguardian.com/science/audio/2013/nov/04/science-weekly-podcast-drugs-mental-illness

I thought it was very interesting and there does seem to be a bit of an anti psychiatric theme lately, leastways I've read a few books which had similar arguments

Mignonette Sat 09-Nov-13 11:56:38

Crowler I have been an RMN for many years. I started off working w/ subs users and people with HIV. I also helped develop subs use education for our local prison back in the 90's. I am also a qualified Health Promotions Officer/specialist practitioner working in MH and Subs Use. Although I now work in forensic MH I obviously come across problems of subs usage w/ clients or their families although most of my clients/patients have Treatment Orders that have very strict conditions about staying off illicit or non prescribed substances because of the nature of their illness and offending history.

complexnumber Sat 09-Nov-13 13:05:02

I honestly had no idea there would be so many responses when I started this thread, but it has been a real education.

I have only made 4 or 5 contributions so I certainly can't claim any credit, but I have been amazed at how calm the discussion has been. People have listened to the experiences of other posters without being judgemental, and have put forward their own ideas without being dogmatic.

I wish more threads could have you lot as regular posters

Mignonette Sat 09-Nov-13 13:09:00

I thought that too Complex. I thought it pleasantly ironic too smile.

Lazysuzanne Sat 09-Nov-13 13:28:54

Perhaps folk have a more sophisticated understanding of drug use these days?

ChippingInLovesAutumn Sat 09-Nov-13 13:39:45

Mig grin

complex - this thread is like Mumsnet of old smile

complexnumber Sat 09-Nov-13 13:41:37

Perhaps folk have a more sophisticated understanding of drug use these days?

That's true Lazysuzanne , but there has also been a tremendous amount of empathy expressed within these responses.

traininthedistance Sat 09-Nov-13 13:49:35

I had morphine after a major operation and it dulled the pain a bit but no warm fuzzy feeling - I felt very sick (I was sick so much none of the anti-emetics they gave me worked) and had a nasty nightmarish feeling. A medic told me that not all people get a nice feeling on opiates - some just feel good, some feel good at the time but get nightmares and flashbacks later, and some feel sick and react badly to it including nightmares and hallucinations. So not everyone could be a heroin addict, as some just don't get the warm fuzzy feeling. I must definitely be in the last category! I was very keen to stay away from pethidine and diamorphine in labour as a result - my sister had diamorphine and liked it but my mum was violently ill when given pethidine in the 80s and I suspected I'd be sick too. I don't even like gas and air much - too dissociative for me. I have never taken any illegal drugs (or any strong prescription drugs apart from in hospital) as I don't like the feeling of not being in control. Though I have wondered what LSD is like - would be far too wary actually to try it though!

SeaSickSal Sat 09-Nov-13 13:57:30

There are pushers. But it's not like Grange Hill where they are hanging round the school gates offering drugs to kids.

Most of the pushing is done by people already addicted to heroin. If they can set up a clientele they can sell drugs to then this will fund their own habit.

But given that they're already addicts and know what the drug is like they will know exactly who to target. The walking wounded, young people coming out of the care system, people with mental health difficulties, people without housing. These are just the kind of people who for many reasons will end up moving in the same circles as heroin addicts so they're doubly vulnerable to having it pushed on them.

But it is pushed, just because it's not being pushed on the high street or at the school gates doesn't mean it's not pushed. It's just that the people pushing it know their market so it's completely hidden from the view of mainstream society.

Crowler Sat 09-Nov-13 14:12:31

igotaway I'm sorry to hear about your son. I wouldn't judge anyone who's dealing with chronic pain.

And, I would agree this has been a really interesting thread. Nice to see the nuanced, un-judgy discussion by near all.

Mignonette Sat 09-Nov-13 14:13:29

Certainly in my experience, the supply can fluctuate to the degree that many Heroin users don't want too much competition. Many potential users/experimenters have to work to a certain extent to gain entry into the clique. I certainly never saw any deliberate or planned 'targeting' of those deemed vulnerable. In fact I saw the contrary. The older established sceners would try to persuade the curious NOT to try Heroin. Yes they wore their 'experienced user' image as a kind of 'wounded badge of honour' aware that in the eyes of the younger/less experienced ones, it gave them a kind of fucked up aspirational wasted elegance but still, I saw little evidence of actual targeting.

Of course I can only speak for where I lived, socialised, trained and worked. It may not be the same elsewhere.

SeaSickSal Sat 09-Nov-13 14:32:21

Mignonette I know that not every heroin addict is pushing it on other people and you are right that many would discourage others from getting involved. But at the same time these are likely to be addicts who are the end of the heroin 'food chain' who are consumers only and not suppliers.

But targeting very definitely goes on. With respect to you, as you have been observing this in a professional capacity it's extremely unlikely that people who were involved in dealing would have been open with you.

On my experience it does happen, if people want to deal, they will create customers.

Mignonette Sat 09-Nov-13 14:50:09

Seasick

I have been involved not only as a professional, sadly. I led a dissolute life before straightening out and training. I thought my experiences might help make me useful in the field.

But yes, I can only speak for my experiences.

Most of the real suppliers i encountered in both capacities were pretty well insulated from the end of the trail. There were so many layers w/ each one tipping in more glucose etc to increase their profits and most of them were selling to support their own habit/consumption.

complexnumber Sat 09-Nov-13 17:17:04

I'm sorry to dip in as a 'light weight' again, but I seem to remember being given morphine as a relief from pain when I was about 13 and had broken a bone during a rugby match.

Is it still current practice to give a child morphine?

My memory of it is sitting in the car park completely zonked, but fancying every nurse that walked by (nothing unusual in a 13 y/o boy's mind there), and assuming they fancied me (maybe less normal)...

Mignonette Sat 09-Nov-13 17:36:28

Complex Aw poor you- that must have been a little discombobulating.

I'm not sure what the absolute policy is for children per se but my 16 year old daughter was on a diamorphine pump PCA (Patient controlled Analgesia) after her 13 hour surgery for Kypho-Scoliosis (some years ago now). She remained on it for three days until her chest tubes were removed. However she was safely off her legs, confined to bed. Generally after such strong analgesia they keep you in unless parents/guardians can ensure you don't stagger in front of a bus/fall down stairs post discharge.

It is a good pain killer for distress because of its dissociative properties. However the hallucinations that some people suffer from cannot be predicted in advance of administration. Nor the innocent teenage lechery wink

HotDogSlaughter Sun 10-Nov-13 18:57:36

When I had DD I suffered a massive PPH. A huge amont of blood drained from my body in a matter of seconds. As I was drifting out of consciousness I felt like someone was giving me a warm fuzzy cuddle and everything felt peaceful and proper. I was nearly dying!

I later discussed this experience with a aneasitist ( sp) Dr who said that is very much what heroin feels like.
I have no clue why this is - it wasn't synthetic it was just me!??

CoteDAzur Mon 11-Nov-13 06:22:39

Does heroin dangerously lower blood pressure? That is what you were feeling.

I had a year living on morphine with severe endometriosis. I still have a lot of it, it was like liquid happiness when I was in pain but now I'm not I have no temptations to take it, I have a zero addictive nature though.

x2boys Mon 11-Nov-13 09:13:55

if you have ever had diamorphine for pain ie labour then you have had medical heroin felt nice.

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