Over ILs taking us away

(232 Posts)
notonnelly Tue 29-Oct-13 21:08:00

Okay, we tend not to go away with DD (1) as she doesn't sleep that well when we are away and is generally just much happier at home.

It was in the in laws wedding anniversary and they wanted to go away for a weekend to celebrate with the family. That is MIL's mum, DH, me and DD, their other son. It was to be in a hotel which we weren't mad keen on as DD won't go to sleep if we are in the room (meaning WTF do we do when she goes down for the night?). ILs know how she is. ILs are retired, but very young and active retired. Think golf/tennis everyday.

But fine, they wanted this weekend in this hotel, so we went along. They very kindly were paying. They said they really wanted this weekend to spend lots of time with DD. They live 5 mins along the road.

SO, on the Friday night they book dinner at 7pm in a pretty formal place in the hotel, expecting DD to join. We managed, but had to get her away early as she was so knackered. Then once she was tucked up in bed I had to sit on the hotel corridor reading a book whilst they all had drinks in the bar. We told them we would be down for breakfast with DD about 7.30 - 8.30. They said, oh well, we set our alarm for 8.30, we will see you later on in the day.

Saturday, they arrange sporting stuff to go an do and not stuff DD can come along for.

Then Saturday night they arrange a formal private dinner at 8pm. DD cannot come and is not the sort of baby that would sleep in the room in a buggy. So, I am pretty much pressurised into doing that phone monitor thing and I hated it, hated it. And then again, I have to sit in the corridor once dinner is over and they have drinks.

I thought it would have been nice to have a more relaxed early dinner that DD could have joined in on!

Same scenario at breakfast the next day.

So, it just leaves me wondering, why the fuck did they ask us, why did they want this 'family' weekend. I am not expecting people to bend over backwards to accomodate our somewhat rigid DD, but bloody nora, they hardly saw her and I spent alot of time camped out in a cold hotel corridor. Why bother?

AIBU, I think I may be a little as it was a nice thought to pay for us to go away with them, but it was a pretty hellish weekend all in all!

pictish Tue 29-Oct-13 21:11:07

How old is dd?

notonnelly Tue 29-Oct-13 21:13:58

1 year old.

fridgealwaysfull Tue 29-Oct-13 21:14:40

A lot of older people seem to forget what it's like to deal with a one year old. It probably sounded great...dinners together, activities together but then the reality was that they wanted to eat at 8pm, way past her bed time. I'm sure it wasn't deliberate. Just learn from it and next time they suggest it say you'll need interconnecting rooms so that you won't be sitting out in the corridor when she's in bed.

pictish Tue 29-Oct-13 21:14:51

The probably just assumed you would be a bit more flexible.

littlewhitebag Tue 29-Oct-13 21:15:38

I would have to say (and expect to get shot down in flames) how have you got to the stage that your DD is so inflexible? I would have popped mine in the buggy and pushed around until they were asleep and expected her to fit around whatever was going on. I realise i am old school though and maybe this is not what is done now.

I also think your in laws wanted you to be with them to celebrate their anniversary. Why wouldn't they? They were hardly likely to choose something to suit you and your child. They wanted to do what they wanted. If you thought it wouldn't work you could have not gone. Or perhaps got your parents/friends/relatives to look after your child for the weekend to allow you to attend child free.

Coldlightofday Tue 29-Oct-13 21:16:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CaptainSweatPants Tue 29-Oct-13 21:16:21

It says in the first line dd is 1

I agree with you

If they live 5 minutes away surely they can see her more often
They could have arranged a meal at lunchtime
My dad is like this, would rather eat later, lie in etc

ThePinkOcelot Tue 29-Oct-13 21:16:59

I don't understand the sitting in the corridor scenario. Why did you do that? Why not just stay in the room with your dd?

Lariflete Tue 29-Oct-13 21:17:56

YANBU - even lovely gestures can sometimes be ill-considered.
Our DD and DS are the same - they have fairly rigid routines (DD a little bit better as she gets a bit older) but my parents can not comprehend the hell on earth that ensues later that night and all the next day if they don't get to bed on time!

pictish Tue 29-Oct-13 21:18:04

Oh yes...so it does...sorry.

I mostly agree with littlewhitebag.

CoffeeTea103 Tue 29-Oct-13 21:19:07

It was their weekend and even though they spent a little time with you it was nice of them to include everyone. Your DH must have been happy to celebrate with his parents. It's one weekend, it's over now and no need to dwell on it. You seem very restricted by your dd. What would you do in emergency/ unplanned situations.

firesidechat Tue 29-Oct-13 21:21:18

Why did you have to sit in the corridor rather than stay in the bedroom?

Why did you hate the phone monitor? I only ask because I've never used one and not too sure how they work.

I'm not one of those people who believe that children should fit around their parents and that babies don't change your life, but it strikes me that possibly encouraging your child to be more flexible might be a good idea. Don't you ever go on holiday now? I don't mean abroad (we didn't try a plane journey until ours were about 10) but a self catering holiday in this country could be a break for you all.

I don't think that it had to be a hellish weekend.

notonnelly Tue 29-Oct-13 21:23:52

How have I got to the stage my DD is so inflexible? Are you shitting me? How have I got to the stage? It is the way she is. I have tried, god knows I have tried to get her to sleep where ever/whenever, but she won't. She just won't. Even the midwives in hospital were commenting on how difficult she was to settle and it has never changed. She is a light sleeper. If I tried (oh christ) to get her to sleep in a room where her parents and grandparents were having dinner, it would be a farce. Littlewhitebag perhaps you should have a wee gander at the sleep boards an develop some empathy for those of us who don't have flexible babies. All children are different.

Furthermore littlewhite the ILs wanted DD there, they were desperate for her to be there.

Mim78 Tue 29-Oct-13 21:25:33

Wondered why DH couldn't take turns with you sitting in the corridor if this had to be done?

firesidechat Tue 29-Oct-13 21:26:11

littlewhtebag, I was thinking the same as you about possible being a bit old school myself. Mine are all grown up now, but young children are in some ways the most flexible. We dragged ours around all over the place and they soon learnt to sleep anywhere. Travel cots are great and we wouldn't have had a social life without one.

pictish Tue 29-Oct-13 21:26:42

So let her stay up a bit later?

notonnelly Tue 29-Oct-13 21:27:07

fireside A SC cottage is a different kettle of fish. There you can settle DD and then go and have a evening to yourself (just like at home) knowing your DC are close.

In the hotel her room was over a 10 minute walk away from where the meal was. I was not comfortable leaving her in the hotel room like that. I think there are a lot of parents on here who don't like doing that (from the threads I have read anyway).

firesidechat Tue 29-Oct-13 21:28:09

Ooops just seen your last post OP. Think I will bow out now before you get annoyed with me too. I was trying to help, sorry.

notonnelly Tue 29-Oct-13 21:29:16

I really don't think it is a case of being old school. you had flexible children! Some are, some aren't. God knows I have tried with her, but if you kid won't sleep anywhere, they won't sleep anywhere, you cannot bloody make them! DD is wonderful in many many ways, but flexibility ain't one of her strong points! We have tried taking her away at various times and it has always ended in tears!

FantasticMax Tue 29-Oct-13 21:31:44

I sympathise, my DD is like this too (though getting a bit better at nearly 2). I am very envious of those with easy to settle babies that go to sleep anywhere!

In fairness they probably forgot what life is like with a baby in tow. You survived it though and can take heart from the fact that if you do it again next year your DC will probably be a bit more flexible.

I would try and keep taking your DD away overnight to get used to it, though. That can't be much fun being so rigid with what you can and can't do.

HissyFucker Tue 29-Oct-13 21:33:18

Jaysus, my DS would need his bed bombing to wake him up... NOW, but aged 1yo? hell tothe screaming big no!

Inflexible my arse! OP, your weekend sounded hard, and I agree, they invited you all, paid for it, so great, but did everything that suited THEM! The formal dinner is a joke, lunch/high tea would have been a more family friendly idea, but you weren't the one calling the shots.

How does your H feel about it all? I, for one, don't think YABU.

HissyFucker Tue 29-Oct-13 21:33:58

If it helps any OP, it does, really does get better! (((hug)))

WipsGlitter Tue 29-Oct-13 21:34:25

I know you'll flame me but...

Sitting in the corridor was utter madness. And martyrish. If it was going to be that bad you should have insisted on interconnecting rooms.

firesidechat Tue 29-Oct-13 21:34:53

By the way, the self catering suggestion was in response to this:

Okay, we tend not to go away with DD (1) as she doesn't sleep that well when we are away and is generally just much happier at home.

rather than the weekend you've just had. I do realise that this wasn't what you asked about though.

Dorris83 Tue 29-Oct-13 21:35:44

I understand OP.
There isn't an option for my DS to 'be a bit more flexible'. If he isn't in bed by 7 he is incredibly unsettled and will be distraught.
It won't be forever but he needs his bedtime to feel safe and secure and it's not fair on him to change that.
Sounds like a rubbish weekend all round. Shame they didn't share the times of the meals beforehand so you could have discussed what would be realistic for dd.

MiddleRageSpread Tue 29-Oct-13 21:35:50

There is no way I would have left her in the hotel room on a monitor I agree.

Sorry it wasn't much fun, chalk it up and laugh about it in years to come.

MrsReacher85 Tue 29-Oct-13 21:36:14

I sympathise, my DS is 1 and will sleep in a travel cot now (albeit not all night but that's a different story) but there's no way he would stay asleep in a buggy in a restaurant. He wakes the second I stop pushing it and always has. I would have ended up doing a similar thing, and did when we took him away earlier in the year.

I'm praying that he gets more flexible as he gets older. I've tried for over year so I'm pretty certain that its him not me!

youretoastmildred Tue 29-Oct-13 21:37:26

"How have I got to the stage my DD is so inflexible? Are you shitting me? How have I got to the stage? "

[strokes hair, makes soothing noises]

what is the DEAL with all these ILs who think that dragging everyone away to some hotel is the only way to celebrate? It's like the hen do bug has spread to the older generation. Book a table in that nice pub down the road, for heaven's sake, and be done with it.

Oh, and about babies who are flexible or not with sleep.
Here's how it works.

If you have a baby who will not sleep unless you soundproof a room with hand-packed snow, facing North, you will do this. Believe me, you will do this, you will do what it takes.
If, on the other hand, you are awarded a baby who will drift off to sleep in the middle of the landing while you run up and down the stairs with all your friends doing the conga, feel free to do this.

If, in the latter case, you go around telling everyone that your baby sleeps because you have always run up and downstairs with your friends doing the conga, you are an ARSE of the highest water. Your cause and effect is BACKWARDS

CuriosityCola Tue 29-Oct-13 21:37:29

You have my sympathies op. Some children will happily snooze in their buggy with the world going on around them. This would have turned ds into an overtired wreck. Not pleasant for anyone. We would also have struggled with staying in the same room. Dh and I have had to sit in silence from 7pm in a hotel room before. It wasn't worth him being woken up and being miserable all the next day. I think people just forget what it is like.

If it makes you feel better ds is far more flexible and easy going at 2 years. Dc2 will sleep in a buggy or in our arms, anywhere and we can have full conversations/tv on and he won't even stir. Just different personalities.

littlewhitebag Tue 29-Oct-13 21:37:52

I did say I might get shot down. I have had three kids and it wasn't all plain sailing and we had our fair share of shit weekends away. I suspect I might have forgotten. Selective memory is excellent. My baby is almost 16. Sometimes you have to chalk up these rubbish times to experience and move on. I am sympathetic honestly.

HaroldLloyd Tue 29-Oct-13 21:38:43

I agree with the person up thread who said they just don't remember the practicalities of dealing with a one year old.

I haven't wanted to stay in a hotel since DS hit one, he won't sleep out, he won't sleep in a room of we are in there. It's no fun at all.

I think they had good intentions but you probably need to be better at saying no, in future.

Sounds like a rubbish weekend, but it's nice that you made the effort to go.

Worriedkat Tue 29-Oct-13 21:39:25

I'm with you OP. Pushing any of my overtired kids round in a buggy at 1 would've resulted in thrashing screaming mayhem. Hours of it.

Sometimes being rigid and forgoing a social life is the only way to get a little bit of sleep.

We have bowed out of holidays with grandparents now. Up at 5.30am with a toddler, disturbed nights where the kids don't sleep well in a different place, feeling absolutely knackered and seeing everyone else appear at 10am bright eyed saying "oooh what shall we do today". It's nothing personal, I'm just too tired to attempt these "lovely holidays" that are ten times more exhausting than staying at home.

Nanny0gg Tue 29-Oct-13 21:39:46

Did your DH not suggest some different options so that you could all be together?

FrillyMilly Tue 29-Oct-13 21:39:54

You have my sympathy. My Dd was the worlds easiest baby and would literally sleep anywhere. I thought I had it all sussed until number 2 came along. He wouldn't sleep anywhere except in the cot and occasionally in the pram if being walked, as soon as I stopped he would wake. This meant at family parties as soon as he got tired I would end up in a dark room on my own pushing him. I can't imagine what he would have been like in a hotel then. They do get better though.

roadwalker Tue 29-Oct-13 21:40:21

notonnelly- I understand. I have 2 children who just cannot cope with lots of things
Everyone thinks it is something you have done or done wrong but mine are just like that
I did lots with them but it all ended badly
You have to adapt to children like this
My son did turn out to have aspergers but not diagnosed for years- not that I am suggesting for a moment yours has it, just that what children can cope with varies and it is not fair to jump on the parent
The weekend sounds terrible and you are not being unreasonable

Sirzy Tue 29-Oct-13 21:40:46

Surely you discussed the practical side and the plans with the in laws before going? If you didnt how were they to know it didnt fit in?

mumofweeboys Tue 29-Oct-13 21:40:55

Sounds like a bloody awful weekend. I would have been in a complete rage, after the first night I would have told them dinner needed to be earlier. Did your dh not say anything when they booked sporting activities?

My own parents and inlaws often don't get that I need my boys evening meal to be not later than 6pm as they are all usually in bed at 7ish (think vile gremlins when up past 7.30pm).

UniS Tue 29-Oct-13 21:41:46

That wasn't much fun. But its over now. just try and say no thank you next time they suggest it. Or get in first by booking a cottage with a spare bedroom and inviting them to join you for a night or two.

I have memories of a similar sort of weekend when DS was 18 months. He wouldn't sleep in the buggy if there was anything even remotely interesting going on either. Thankfully hotel was small enough that our baby monitor from home worked in the dining room. But it took an age to settle him in a strange cot. And Inlaws were a bit miffed that the hotel gave us a nicer room than them (ours was big enough for cot and cat swinging, theirs was not)

HissyFucker Tue 29-Oct-13 21:43:06

You know your dd, and she doesn't do random, change or go with the flow. She likes her routine, and not 'surprises' when it comes to where she stays/sleeps.

Once you know her, know her little foibles, it gets easier, the more she can communicate with you, the easier it gets to work within the parameters of your life and hers.

Trust your instincts and defend the way you know what works. You went on that weekend in good faith, in future you can say that you'll meet them for lunch or tea or something, but that hotel stays'd be better later on.

Fwiw, my DS is nearly 8. Going to a hotel would still be hard for me, as he goes to bed before I do, and indeed, wth do I do when he does?

I'd prefer 2 rooms, it'd be easier. I spent an hour sat on the hotel rooms loo when DS was 18m, waiting for him to sleep. Grim.

firesidechat Tue 29-Oct-13 21:46:15

I must admit that I have never suggested a weekend away with extended family to celebrate an event, especially a wedding anniversary. Your description sounds very much that it was the in laws ideal weekend with you all tagging along and having to fit in. Really they should have gone by themselves.

I must remember not to do this sort of thing to my children.

comewinewithmoi Tue 29-Oct-13 21:46:25

Sounds totally crap. Poor you.

Thewalkingdeadkr Tue 29-Oct-13 21:46:31

Yes my dd is the same.
After four I used to secretly chuckle at these inflexible parents who lived around their offsprings naps and meals but then came dc 5 who even now at two needs a regular routine and won't sleep anywhere but a quiet dark room after a bath and with all her props.
It just happens.
If it helps my in laws behaved the same way after insisting we went away. Hardly saw the kids and did their own thing.
At least you will know for next time.

notonnelly Tue 29-Oct-13 21:49:26

It was 'their' weekend, they are perfectly aware of DD and her quirks and they knew it was going to be a challenge for us. We were told we would be having a family meal together on the saturday night in a private room. I stupidly thought it would be early, only found out the plan when we got there. I did question what I was meant to do with DD and got told about the phone monitor thing. I didn't push it after that - as I said it was their weekend. But, it was them that were so desperate for DD to be there, so it just surprised me that she wasn't really included in so many things.

And yes yes to the PP who said about 5.30am starts! I was muttering darkly when the three of us were up in the morning before cbeebies even started!

I'd be more pissed off with your DH than your inlaws, TBH. They tried to do a nice thing - booked and paid for a weekend away. They weren't to know how inflexible your DC is, or how hard to settle in a strange room. They maybe thought you'd arrange a sitter. But your DH left you to sit in the corridor for two nights on the trot... hmm

Worriedkat Tue 29-Oct-13 21:50:25

I don't understand the previous post saying that sitting in the corridor was utter madness and martyrish. If baby understandably for a 1 yo wouldn't go to sleep with you in the room then you didn't have a choice. Surely letting the child scream through the dinner upsetting other diners, or stay awake in the hotel room until very late, would be reven more crazy?

notonnelly Tue 29-Oct-13 21:51:43

I suppose part of me is a little hurt on DD's behalf (silly I know). They kept on going on about how much they love her and really really wanted this weekend away with their one and only grandchild and then they made no efforts what so ever to spend time with her! In fact they made arrangement that excluded her. Why bother?!

ReluctantCamper Tue 29-Oct-13 21:53:07

My mum isn't really bothered about my DS's routine, which drives me nuts. His 'inflexibility' means we all get some sleep and don't suffer through screaming night terrors. It was kind of the in laws to want to invite you, but people over 50 don't seem to remember or care what it's like to have really little kids. You've just got to sod 'em and do what suits you.

notonnelly Tue 29-Oct-13 21:53:56

Agent No need to be pissed off at DH, none at all. He offered lots and lots to sit in the corridor, but it was his parent's celebratory weekend, so I insisted he went and had drinks with them! And they do know what a tricky customer DD can be, fully aware. I would understand the weekend more if they didn't, but they do and perhaps I should have put that in my OP, my mistake.

mumaa Tue 29-Oct-13 21:54:25

YANBU sounds like was a crap time for you and a bit of a waste of money for them to pay for you to sit in a corridor... I would not have been happy about using listening in service either. It sounds to me like they were well intentioned, they wanted you there but sounds like they didn't really think about the practicalities.

Our DD is also a massive fan of routine (also 1), people say can you not push her in the buggy, drive her in the car, settle her in the bed with you then leave her? No, no and no she likes to be in a bed(preferably her own), in the dark, left in peace. Some children are more flexible, my nephew can sleep anywhere and it being noisy doesn't bother him at all. Everyone is different.

JeanSeberg Tue 29-Oct-13 21:55:28

Where was your husband in all this?

Worriedkat Tue 29-Oct-13 21:56:00

We did the interconnecting rooms thing a few weeks ago, it didn't help. Up at 1, 3 and 5.30 am for the day. Never again.

Gosh how inflexible am I!

I find the older generation don't really understand the challenges of a 1yo, even if you tell them. My ILs didn't until they looked after them overnight 2 years ago, they got it then and haven't offered since

HaroldLloyd Tue 29-Oct-13 21:56:39

It's a bit shit you were the one sat in the corridor, could a few of them not done a shift so you could have had a drink?

AveryJessup Tue 29-Oct-13 21:59:39

I think the people saying you should have been more flexible notonnelly are a bit delusional or are maybe forgetting what 1-year olds are like. You don't sound inflexible. You sound like you have a 1-year old. My son was easy enough to settle up until about 9 months old. We could take him anywhere and would happily eat out in restaurants with him just sleeping in his buggy. We felt very smug about how relaxed and cool we were as parents.

Then he got older and got more aware of his surroundings and now, at 2, he won't sleep anywhere except in his bed for naps and bedtime. He will sometimes snooze in the car but wakes up as soon as we stop.

Your ILs sound a bit like mine. They came to visit us (we live abroad) when DS was 1 and complained that we were being inflexible and that we hadn't had a meal out properly all together and so on. They had just forgotten what 1-year olds were like. My guess is your ILs are the same, have forgotten what it's like to have an older baby, not a child or a newborn, and were just thinking that you would somehow fall into line with their plans.

It was their weekend, they were paying for it, so fair enough but I can see why it wasn't relaxing for you at all! We had a weekend away in a hotel with DS when he was 9 months and swore off hotels ever again. Self-catering is much better. It would have been nice of your ILs to be more considerate but this time around it was their rules. Did they offer you any help with the baby at all? Kind of bizarre to invite you along if they weren't prepared to muck in a bit.

wiltingfast Tue 29-Oct-13 21:59:45

To be honest, you do sound a bit precious. Sitting in the corridor? Seriously? That sounds shit and completely bonkers. What is wrong with the phone monitor? Or could you not have upgraded yourselves to adjoining rooms? She's 1, not 3m. In the end of the day, you have to make sure that arrangements suit you and your family and then fit them around whatever else is going on. So sokme bits you're part of and some you're not.

And surely you didn't expect the weekend to revolve around your dd? These things never do no matter how keen people are to have the small ones there. Was it at least a place where you coud entertain her easily? I remember my dh seriously suggesting we go to a family reunion with a 2yo and a 4yo and stay in a b&b! Also bonkers and firmly vetoed. 'Cause who would end up trying to get them to sleep and then sit in a dark room while dh had a ball? Me.

The only other thing I'd say is they do get better able to cope you know, so I wouldn't write off doing it again. And I guess you'll know better next time whether the proposed outing is doable or not.

Jan49 Tue 29-Oct-13 22:02:02

It sounds like they just did what they wanted for their anniversary and were unrealistic in expecting your dd to be able to join in. The alternative would be early dinner, early breakfast etc to suit your dd which wouldn't be much fun for the ILs. Maybe both sides were unrealistic. I wouldn't expect adults away from home celebrating to eat an evening meal at 5 or 6pm because one of the party is a baby.

FredFredGeorge Tue 29-Oct-13 22:02:47

Why the martyr like sitting in a corridor though? Presumably it wasn't that long ago that she slept all the time in the same room as you, even if the two dinners were inappropriate, you could've just enjoyed the weekend and sat in the room reading. (especially as a hotel corridor you'd hope would have good enough soundproofing that you weren't going to hear anything anyway...)

And why the insisting on attending breakfast at 7:30-8:30, what was wrong with 8:30 when the rest would be there? (even if she'd eaten earlier)

You just sound rather determined to complain, sure it wasn't a great weekend, travelling with young kids is often tough, but never doing it is hardly the alternative.

Orangesarenottheonlyfruit Tue 29-Oct-13 22:04:03

You have my sympathies OP. It sounds like utter hell. Both of my kids would have gone ballistic if kept up and expected to doze off in a bright noisy dining room.
To be honest, I would still find the weekend you've described a bit tricky with a three and five year old.
Have a huge glass of wine and some choice, you've earned it.

Worriedkat Tue 29-Oct-13 22:06:26

I think never doing it until kids are older is a good alternative. I hate staggering around in a sleep deprived hallucinogenic blear on the pretence of enjoying a lovely weekend.

tyaca Tue 29-Oct-13 22:07:42

Sounds shit. Poor you.

I would have been very unhappy with monitor phone thing, and I am really laid back.

My dc are 4 and 5 and only now would I consider taking them for a 7pm meal in a restaurant. Ds in partic struggles to sit still at the end of the day.

notonnelly Tue 29-Oct-13 22:08:45

For those questioning DH, see my post. He offered. Nobody else offered to sit there so I could have a drink (nor, realistically, would I expect ILs to, it was their weekend).

Fred How I am being a martyr? I couldn't sit in the room reading - she would wake up and be gawking at me. Then we escalate into overtired mayhem. wiltingfast the phone monitor only worked in the private room, couldn't be used in the bar. So, what was I meant to do? Leave DD in a hotel room, 10 mins walk away, in a strange place, and hope for the best? Not the type of parent I am.

I didn't insist on breakfast at that time, I said, we would be down at that time (given we would be up at the crack of dawn).

Cuddlydragon Tue 29-Oct-13 22:09:14

Yup OP. my DS is like this. I too would laugh in the face of those suggesting you've somehow created this. For me, I'm so grateful that he sleeps reliably in his bed that I don't give a toss about a social life that requires him to be flexible. They're only little for such a short time. Martyrdom does tend to be the retort from those who drag babies around to fit in. Weekend sounds shit. It's over. Lesson learned.

PasswordProtected Tue 29-Oct-13 22:10:10

All children are flexible, some parents are not.

ExitPursuedByABogieMan Tue 29-Oct-13 22:11:45

But why sitting the corridor? bottle glass of wine and a good book on the bed would do me.

HaroldLloyd Tue 29-Oct-13 22:11:55

Bollocks.

WipsGlitter Tue 29-Oct-13 22:13:07

Because the baby wakes up if she's in the room and then gets overtired. I still think its madness.

MrsOakenshield Tue 29-Oct-13 22:13:22

at that age DD would have been very hard to settle in a strange room, and she would have (in fact, still is) used to going to sleep in the dark - now, how am I meant to read in the dark, I'm not a bloody cat! And I would have not been happy with a phone monitor at that distance, pfb and all that I daresay, so shoot me.

Cuddlydragon Tue 29-Oct-13 22:18:26

All babies are flexible? Seriously? thlhmm. Ill be sure to explain that to my silent reflux baby in pain and crying. He'd have felt so much better, over tired and dragged around. I think requiring him to be flexible would have been utterly selfish.

notonnelly Tue 29-Oct-13 22:19:55

Enlighten me wips. How was my behaviour madness? Tell me what my alternative was. DD will wake up if I sit in the room reading. She will. It is a fact.

WipsGlitter Tue 29-Oct-13 22:20:30

Yes, some babies are flexible. What so hmm.

OwlinaTree Tue 29-Oct-13 22:21:07

You could buy this

Then you could read.

notonnelly Tue 29-Oct-13 22:21:12

Cuddly Yes, they are flexible. All of them. Every single one. You are wrong hmm

elspethmcgillicuddy Tue 29-Oct-13 22:21:34

I can empathise. I have one flexible baby who slept at weddings/dinners/anywhere and one inflexible, light sleeper. I'm quite strict and inflexible about bedtimes (my need as much as theirs!) I would have done exactly same as you but would have been ok about using phone monitor and would have made DH (and possibly other gullible supportive family members) take turns to sit in the corridor.

DontmindifIdo Tue 29-Oct-13 22:25:13

See, a lot of us who've had babies post McGann think hotel holidays are hell, but for a lot of older generations, that's just what you did, settle them down, go down to the bar, have a lovely time. The fact that younger parents just won't leave them is seen as odd. At the time MM was taken, I remember talking in the office with a few parents who'd all said they'd left their DCs in hotel rooms and gone down to restaurants. They only thought the McGanns were wrong because the place they'd gone to eat was a separate building, but the premise of leaving DCs alone in a hotel room is just what a lot of people did until very very recently.

I also had a non-flexible DS, he would have slept in the buggy until about the age of 5 months, but after that, the buggy would have to be moving or he was in a cot in the dark. No parking him up next to the table for us. I'm sure the OP could have been 'flexible' and brought her DD to the meal, of course everyone wants a crying, whinging baby at the table. Some DC won't just coo sweetly if kept up late, most in fact, will be grumpy and stroppy. That's just not fun.

It also sounds like they like the idea of DD being there, having gone away with all their family, but not actually wanting to spend any time with her. I guess if you'd realised how it would have been you could have arranged a nanny to sit in the corridor for you so you could have enjoyed the Saturday night, or even left DD at home with your parents. Lesson learned, in the future, make sure you pin down plans and work out how you are going to make things suit your DD and they can fit in with you...

Cuddlydragon Tue 29-Oct-13 22:26:25

thlgrin that'll be the same babies that all sleep through the night and feed like angels. Those ones?

Xmasbaby11 Tue 29-Oct-13 22:26:34

OP, DD would have been exactly the same! I think that's reasonably normal? I don't think DD (21mo) is unusual but she needs to sleep in her bed at night, wherever that may be.

My parents are similar - they just don't get how routine is important to DD and that I actually can't make her wake up at 8am or wait for lunch until 1.30. I can give her snacks and delay her lunch, but if she misses her nap, yes, she will be very tired and grumpy.

My parents also say they want to spend lots of time with DD. They actually mean a couple of hours a day, spread out. So maybe your inlaws saw enough of you and enjoyed themselves.

I would have done the same as you I think - gone along but not really enjoyed it! Hopefully your DH enjoyed it though?

notonnelly Tue 29-Oct-13 22:28:49

Owl that thing is the stuff of nightmares! It makes me think of being buried alive!!!

Kewcumber Tue 29-Oct-13 22:29:27

I had a similar thing when DS was about 2 and my BIL was 50. Sister paid for a room in the hotel where the meal was for us "a nice treat for you" instead of putting us up at her house.

Sat on pins during the meal listening to baby monitor then had to deal with an early rising baby/toddler and hour before anything in the hotel opened. Couldn;t read in bed or watch TV at anything except virtually inaudible levels with DS in the room. Never said a word to Dsis as I think she genuinely thought it would be a nice treat for us.

It toughens you up! You won;t agree to something which is so awkward for your family again. Insist on something that works for you next time even if it means paying yourself or paying a babysitter.

Kewcumber Tue 29-Oct-13 22:32:07

And DS wouldn;t sleep in a buggy either. Once took him to a family party and everyone said - oh he can dose off under a table somewhere... Ha ha ha when we left at 10pm he was still wide awake and needed entertaining, then we loaded him into a car (in the dark) and drove him home for 90 mins and he still didn't fall asleep until we got home!

amothersplaceisinthewrong Tue 29-Oct-13 22:33:58

I would have left a one year old with the other set of grandparents at home and gone along with DH to something like that and enjoyed a grown up night out.

We once took DS aged one on a new-years break with in-laws. But he was a good sleeper and we did put him down to bed before we ate and then used the hotel listening service. It was still rather hard work, especially as MIL insisted on walking round the walls of Chester and we had to get a buggy up and down stairs. The experience has not been repeated and said DS is almost 25!

holidaysarenice Tue 29-Oct-13 22:34:35

So you go for breakfast at 7.30 ish because it suits you. Your in-laws go at 9ish cos it suits them.

Do you really think many people wish to start their day 2 hrs earlier because you have a baby?

Did you get up at this time pre dd?

Honestly if it was my parents anniversary and anyone suggested up at 6.30 breakfast at 7.30 oh and high tea at 5 to suit the baby I would have laughed in their face.

I'd have said you do that breakfast we'll see you at a reasonable hour. Dinner wise I would have suggested you feeding dd earlier and then turn taking to come to dinner. I'd even have offered to do some of the sitting for you. Would I change everyone elses weekend for my one dd - no.

Bunbaker Tue 29-Oct-13 22:35:05

"No, no and no she likes to be in a bed(preferably her own), in the dark, left in peace."

When DD was only days old my auntie gave me a piece of valuable advice, and that was to never try to get her to sleep in absolute silence and to keep the radio/TV on in the background because I would make a rod for my own back. I followed it and am so glad I did. DD developed some serious health problems that involved many hospital stays. Fortunately she managed to get to sleep in hospital in spite of the hustle and bustle going on around her.

I really feel for parents who have problems getting their children to sleep and would advise new parents to follow my auntie's advice.

notonnelly I'm sorry your weekend was so stressful. I hope your ILs will be more understanding.

OwlinaTree Tue 29-Oct-13 22:35:54

Yes it does seem a little claustrophobic!

mumaa Tue 29-Oct-13 22:36:26

Haha cuddly ah yes, those babies, i have indeed heard of these, apparently my mil had two of them.

i think some people do forget what babies of this age can be like and others have never experienced a baby who likes/needs routine. So my DD likes to go to sleep in her own bed at the same time every night, there are worse things i could imagine and i actually spent quite a while encouraging this to happen. So i cant take my DD to places that aren't really appropriate for young babies and certain people roll their eyes at me for saying this. But that's just the way it is for now, i don't have a,problem with it, its others that do and i imagine most mothers of 'routine loving babies' will feel the same.

OP, i would have probably done the same in your situation and would also have prefered DH was with his parents.

Is there a reason why you couldn't sit in PIL's or BIL's room instead of sitting in the hall? Or go back to your own room once DD was asleep?

I'm not having a go, my two were easy sleepers so I never had to go through what you have, but I don't get you sitting on the floor in the hallway.

Bogeyface Tue 29-Oct-13 22:40:10

I have a mix of sleepers. Some who will sleep on a washing line, others (and me!) who can only sleep in bed in the dark although thankfully noise isnt an issue.

I have brought them all up the same way, done bed times the same way, naps etc and thats just how they are. My sister could sleep on the central reservation of the M25 in rush hour, I struggle to sleep in bed at night, we are just different.

The problem is that when you tell people that X wont sleep in a buggy or whatever, they assume that you are some PFB GF following mad woman who insists on a 5 mile radius of silence when baby is sleeping! And when you are proved right that "oh she'll be fine in the buggy" isnt actually the case, it is somehow YOUR fault that she wont sleep and not THEIR fault for insisting that they know best!

YANBU, not at all.

Bogeyface Tue 29-Oct-13 22:40:58

I was going to ask why you spend 2 evenings in the corridor with a book, but I guess as it was your ILs then your DH can be let off, although I hope he did at least pop up to your regularly with wine!

notonnelly Tue 29-Oct-13 22:41:02

bun I had music on fo DD when she slept. Still a light sleeper. Some kids are like that I think.

I couldn't leave DD at home, IL's kept on going on about how much they wanted to see her and it would be great her being there etc et etc etc etc and what an important part of the (tiny) family she was. It was a little OTT frankly. But nevermind. So that over the top enthusiasm did not really match up with their actions - there was a disconnect. And I suppose it is that that caused me to raise an eyebrow. Had they not been so friggin over excited about her being there and 'being a big part of our weekend' I probably wouldn't have thought anything of the arrangements.

Bogeyface Tue 29-Oct-13 22:42:46

Weile if the OPs child is anything like my middle child, no matter how asleep they are, if you pop your head around the door they are wide awake. As I said above, my others wouldnt wake from a direct bomb strike but she is awake if a sparrow farts 3 streets away. I could never spend an evening in the room with her and have her sleep, thats why we only do self catering holidays!

teacher123 Tue 29-Oct-13 22:44:33

DS is 18mo and has a consistent routine of mealtimes/naptime and bedtime. He sleeps best in a cot, in his grobag in the dark with his bunny. He will sleep in travel cots and is reasonably happy to settle in strange places as long as it's nice and dark and he has his bunny. I am absolutely happy with that and am not prepared to do anything that would jeopardise his sleeping and eating. The only thing I would do differently to you OP is I would hide behind the bed on cushions and MN on the iPad whilst he slept! He's only little for a while, plenty of time for grown up meals out when he's a bit bigger.

mumaa Tue 29-Oct-13 22:49:06

bun i say no to the 'magic' of buggies, cars and cuddles in bed to get my DD to sleep and when i say left in peace i mean put in her bed, lights out and door closed. I still potter around my tiny house, have friends round for meals, etc. While she sleeps in her bed and you can definitely hear the chat in any room of our house.

she just likes left alone to settle herself down, i wouldn't like a table of diners staring at me while i tried to sleep either tbh haha

Dobbiesmum Tue 29-Oct-13 22:49:17

OP your DD is obviously a clone of my older 2 grin thanks
DS I swear didn't sleep at all for around 18 months and vomited every time he had to sleep in a strange bed. Every. Time.
DD could and did fall asleep at a football match at Wembley stadium surrounded by 80,000 screaming fans at the age of 3. However for the first 2 years of her life she woke up if a fly farted 20 miles away in Manchester...
Some babies are flexible, some aren't, it's the way of the world.
I totally agree with the posters who say your IL's have forgotten about the little details of raising children.

Dobbiesmum Tue 29-Oct-13 22:50:48

Sorry, forgot to add, I have done the weirdest things to get my DC's to sleep. Sitting reading in a corridor is not madness x

FixItUpChappie Tue 29-Oct-13 22:55:57

YANBU OP....I would not have taken my one year old to a formal dinner at 8:00pm and to those who inevitably say "oh well we managed" than bully for them. Why should the parents of a one year old sort out being all being flexible over some footloose and fancy free retirees? Goes both ways IMO.

Mondayschild78 Tue 29-Oct-13 22:56:45

Another one here who has an inflexible child and I completely understand where you're coming from. Don't sweat it though, it was a special occasion and you went along and I'm sure it was appreciated. It should get easier as they get older, I am starting to see signs of this now DS is 2.

GrendelsMum Tue 29-Oct-13 22:57:33

Poor old you - it does sound a bit dull for you. Lessons learnt all round, I suppose, but I'm sure the GPs have now realised how difficult it is for you to be looking after a baby in unfamiliar surroundings, and won't ask you away again.

QuintsHollow Tue 29-Oct-13 22:57:34

I dont suppose anybody would expect a 1 year old baby to take any part in a dinner, formal or not. I expect they thought you would have fed her her dinner earlier, and she could either be awake and with you, or asleep in her buggy with you, or asleep in the room with a monitor.

A 1 year old is so portable, so not sure what sporting activities she could not be present for?

Mondayschild78 Tue 29-Oct-13 22:59:37

Oh and both DH and I have sat in hotel corridors reading while waiting for DS to fall asleep a couple staying at one hotel even mistook us for hotel staff because we spent so much time in the corridor although they were a bit strange too

starlight1234 Tue 29-Oct-13 22:59:47

It seems a little not thought through on your part really...

I really cannot understand why you would sit in the corridor once asleep...But if you really believed it was that tough to get to sleep how did you expect the evening to go..no matter what time dinner was you would be in the same situation...

I also completely understand with babies they can't wait till the IL's wake up for breakfast but I am not sure why you seem to upset about the two breakfasts.

My DS at that age struggled to go to sleep without my boob in his mouth and woke frequently but I do think at home you need to creep about less...get her more self soothing to make your life a little easier.... At this age though once you have these things sorted they start teething again and it all goes up in the air.

Did you actually enjoy yourself at all?

carvedpumpkin Tue 29-Oct-13 23:02:13

totally sympathise op, we have a 1 year old dd and went away for a weekend recently that involved us watching tv on an ipad in the bathroom because she otherwise stood in the travel cot and cried at us when we were in the room. she is an amazing sleeper, in her own room, but can't stand missing out when others are around - although only at bedtime, naptime during the day she is fine. turns out that small children have their own personalities and habits, like adults, so posters saying this is crazy and created by parents clearly have only met children with different habits! Likewise for the person who suggested keeping them up later, dd gets incredibly cranky and just cries if she misses her usual bedtime. We are very flexible with her and I don't mind going at our own pace at home or in a family member/friend's house but in a restaurant I would not want to be dealing with an unhappy baby who was being kept up only for the sake of their grandparents and not getting anything from the evening.

notonnelly Tue 29-Oct-13 23:17:30

starlight There is no question here, DD wakes if you go into her room at night. Me sitting reading a book whilst she was meant to be asleep would not work. No question at all. It is not a question of self soothing. It is a a question of being a light sleeper who is also very very nosey.

If we had all had dinner together I would have thought it would have been nice for DD and her GPs, but they obviously didn't want that, despite having prattled on to anyone who would listen about what a wonderful weekend they would have with their GD. Granted, I would have still had to sit in the corridor, much to your horror, but at least we would have had some sort of celebration as a whole family.

I should have said this was not a rare treat for the ILs. they go on holiday approx 10 times a year.

Bogeyface Tue 29-Oct-13 23:24:43

Sounds like they wanted her there for the photo opps and didnt give much thought to the rest of the weekend. Next time, say no!

Caitlin17 Wed 30-Oct-13 00:17:27

I don't understand the sitting in the corridor. You say she won't sleep with you in the same room as her, so where was your room in relation to hers?

If it was next to hers why couldn't you be in it since presumably that's where you'd be sleeping anyway eventually?

Caitlin17 Wed 30-Oct-13 00:19:26

Or if your room wasn't next to hers, where were you supposed to be sleeping?

Bogeyface Wed 30-Oct-13 00:22:19

Caitlin presumably if mummy and daddy are asleep she settles but if anyone is up and awake then she wants to be too.

Caitlin17 Wed 30-Oct-13 00:39:24

Sorry I'm confused, OP, says in a later post her daughter wakes when they go in to her room at night.

So what do they do at home? Do they share a bedroom at home? How, if coming into the room wakens her?

CanucksoontobeinLondon Wed 30-Oct-13 00:51:44

My heartfelt sympathies, OP. I had a baby like your DD. If it's any consolation, it usually gradually gets better as they get older. She won't be 1 forever.

Sounds like a very frustrating weekend. I guess just chalk it up to experience and thank God you didn't have to pay for your half. People in their sixties often don't remember what having small children is really like. My in-laws don't remember either. It gets frustrating.

AveryJessup Wed 30-Oct-13 01:41:37

Actually, yes, all babies are 'flexible': not all customers in hotel restaurants are flexible, however. Or hotel staff. Family members. Etc. I doubt anyone would have enjoyed their meal if OP had tried to be more 'flexible'. Imagine the AIBU on here: 'AIBU to take my 1 year old with us to ILs special dinner and make her stay up and get cranky so we can all have family time together?' OP would be flamed for being selfish. Ditto if she went the other extreme and left the baby upstairs asleep.

Interrupting your baby's routine is certainly an option. It just depends on how comfortable you are with upsetting your child and everyone around you in the process.

MrsMook Wed 30-Oct-13 05:33:16

Sounds like a grim pointless experience to me.

DS 1 is a flexible baby/ toddler, but some of our worst nights have been in hotels because he needs to be alone and in the dark to settle. Given a choice we self cater so he has the space he needs- hotels only work for us when there's enough goinng on to keep him up to go to bed at and acceptable time for us. Thinking back to him being 18m, a weekend like that would have been hell as he'd have wanted food within minutes of being in the highchair, and wanted to thoroughly explore the restaurant. I can see it would be pretty intolerable for a very specific and routined baby.

If you're going to insist on inviting young children, you need to make some allowence to their needs or there's no point in having them there. YANBU

Silvercatowner Wed 30-Oct-13 06:40:38

This reminds me of a holiday we had when younger son was just 2. We were in a hotel in a lovely holiday town on the south coast. Younger son woke up at 4.30 on the dot every day, wide awake, ready to start the day (he was a poor sleeper and early riser generally but 4.30 was OTT even for him). This was pre morning TV. Unhappy memories of me walking him through the streets of lovely holiday town as the dawn broke and commuters stared. That was 25 years ago - now I would just come home, no idea why I didn't then. It was awful.

olympicsrock Wed 30-Oct-13 06:45:25

Sounds like hell. My DS nearly 2 is the same very light sleeper would wake up if he heard a whisper or you turned over inm bed. So we would only go away for a holiday if he could have a neighbouring but secure room. Otherwise it would be hell. SIL and BIL have a DD the same age who sleeps like the dead they don't understand our inflexibility. We never crept around DS (the opposite ) but that's just how he is. SIL has repeatedly suggested evening meals for family celebrations and just letting her DD stay up til 10 or sleeping in a buggy. We would just rather do something daytime if its an option as its much easier.

diddl Wed 30-Oct-13 06:56:37

I suppose if the arrangements were known beforehand, it would have been better for husband to go alone.

Especially as ILs live nearby & have plenty of ops to see their GC.

So lesson learned, I guess-find out plans & say no if unworkable!

Taffeta Wed 30-Oct-13 06:57:33

It's taken me many years to learn that my parents needs and my childrens needs don't match. I remember we went on holiday with my parents when DS was 18 months and it was awful. My Dad couldn't understand why his needs didn't come above DSs. Why he needed a sleep at lunchtime etc.

And whoever said up thread that the older generation forget the practicalities of caring for small children is bang on.

It sounds like a horrid weekend op. I would be storing the experience and ensuring I made plans to avoid similar in future.

Beautifulbabyboy Wed 30-Oct-13 07:05:03

Sorry but I agree with the poster who said you were a martyr. You made it very difficult for yourself when it didn't have to be. You could have for a baby sitter outside room / operated a 30 min rota with husband / used a baby monitor - there were lots of options. I have been away with my parents and ils with small babies and you make it work if you want to.

I think the point being, you didn't want to, so instead you sulked, and are still sulking now. It was 2 nights away. Really?!!

WipsGlitter Wed 30-Oct-13 07:14:16

What I don't get is was she in her own room or travel cot in your room? Because if she wakes up if you're in the room then what happened when you and DP came in and went to bed?

neunundneunzigluftballons Wed 30-Oct-13 07:15:26

I remember DH and me sitting on an en suite floor waiting for Dds to go to sleep in a hotel more than once so you are not being unreasonable. dS does not sleep so we have never had that problem with him smile. IMO parents who cannot do anything with their kids is definitely a bit about them and a bit about the kids but I cannot say I blame them. You often see people say here if I take little X out of his routine all hell breaks loose. I think that is the same for virtually all 1 year olds but some people are willing to cope with that others not so much. We were willing to deal with the hassle after nights away/events because personally I want to be part of the family stuff going on because we enjoy it. We never regretted it but we did have nights like the ones you describe in our day.

ovenbun Wed 30-Oct-13 07:22:41

They really should have booked a cottage, so much more child friendly and then you could have enjoyed more time together. It sounds like they have forgotten what like to have young children!

Worriedkat Wed 30-Oct-13 07:28:53

I find my main difficulty is the older generations inflexibility. They are the ones who don't want to fit around our routine, which would be fair enough if they didn't get all sulky when we decline invites. They don't understand why it's difficult and get offended that we don't want to spend the time with them (but are quite happy to turn down a trip to butlins/soft play/anywhere less than 4*). It should work both ways.

I'm just assertive now and decline with minimum of excuses not really, haven't had the balls yet but I'm working on it

youretoastmildred Wed 30-Oct-13 08:02:02

Why all this pinch-eyed forensic questioning about the room? It's obvious to me. The baby will only drop off in the sure and certain knowledge that he is alone, without any potential entertainment in the room. Once he is asleep you might get away with sliding into bed in the same dark, silent room. Don't even think about reading a book or having a glass of water. Unless you want to be doing This Little Piggy between 12 and 4 am.

Beautifulbabyboy Wed 30-Oct-13 08:05:08

Oh my god worriedkat, the older generations inflexibility...are you serious!!? A baby is 99 times out if 100 the sole focus of attention and planning, the in laws asked for one weekend, a couple of dinners, they didn't ask for the ritual sacrifice of the PFB. Maybe, god forbid they actually liked OP and they wanted to spend time with her.

I can't believe most of the posts on here. I have 2 baby boys, for whom 99% of my life CURRENTLY resolves around. I would hope that in 35 years time, my boys would want to celebrate mine and DH's anniversary as it will mean we have been married for 40 years and overcame all trials and tribulations and are still happy together. I would really hope they are not married to selfish sulky DIL who can't adapt her life for 2, ONLY 2, nights, when instead she should be thinking how great these people are to raise a son into such a nice person I wanted to marry and procreate with him!!

It wasn't a big ask, you are unreasonable OP.

This thread has annoyed me, am signing off now.

fluffyraggies Wed 30-Oct-13 08:18:31

I think the ILs sound like they loved the idea of 'everyone being together having a wonderful time', but with the luxury of having nothing to do with the practicalities of achieving this. They got to carry on as normal while you juggled your DD.

OP we live and learn. If this is your first DC then you probably wanted to please everyone and have a go at the weekend. I'll bet you wont make the same mistake again! grin

I had 3DCs who were brilliant sleepers. All of them started sleeping through at 6 weeks old and i thanked all the God's and all my lucky stars for it. Luck or judgement - who knows? ...

... but i do know i that for the first couple of years of each of their childhoods i protected their good sleep routines like a tiger no matter what anyone thought of me (ILs thought i was a bit mad for wanting a proper bed time routine) because my own 8 hours kip is so precious to me.

Yes it meant a few years of not being able to socialise the same way we did when we were childless for a while, but it didn't kill us. We had to do self catering holidays or breaks in places where we could pop the kids to bed at a reasonable time in a next door room and entertain ourselves till our bed time, then be prepared to be up in the morning with them. As they get older you can stretch the routine more until they're old enough to stay up as late as you like.

(seriously before you know it they'll be teens and staying out later than you! wink)

Don't bother changing your routine to please others OP. They're only this little for a short time.

Worriedkat Wed 30-Oct-13 08:35:55

fluffyraggies first sentence is spot on.

comewinewithmoi Wed 30-Oct-13 08:38:57

I can't believe what a hard time you are getting op. hmm hindsight is a great thing. Some babies/toddlers are not flexible, just the way they are. What part if thAt, do some posters not get?

How is op being a martyr? I know I'd rather sit and read a book than go for a drink with pil.

Put it down to experience op. not to be repeated.

HaroldLloyd Wed 30-Oct-13 08:40:43

Beautiful SHE WENT YOU KNOW.

comewinewithmoi Wed 30-Oct-13 08:43:34

Oh Fgs. The pil were being selfish. Lovley , it's their anniversary. Celebrate it as a couple or be accomadating. 8pm dinners for a 1 year old, yeah ok.

bubalou Wed 30-Oct-13 08:43:51

Hi op.

Not criticising at all - just questioning.

The fact that 'some children are just like this' is only half the truth in any case. Some people that have children that sleep well will only have them because they have taken certain steps to make it this way. Also in retrospect - some that do everything right can of course still end up with a light sleeper but this is usually due to - medical conditions, teething or being sleep dependant.

When ds was a baby I did a lot of research into children and sleeping (plus we have a paediatrician in the family who offered advice).

Ds was always put down for naps during the day in a room that wasn't dark, always with the radio on in a nearby room and I was never quiet. Always hoovering or tidying etc. At night, the room is dark with no white noise and so when it came to feeding him at night he could differentiate between day and night feeds and knew to go back to sleep. We also had a bed routine - bottle, bath, hugs and sleep.

Following this pattern and a few other things ds slept through from 6 weeks old. He is a great sleeper, always sleeps through (expect the odd nightmare). As a baby he would sleep anywhere and everywhere and we have been away loads of times to hotels and he sleeps there with no problem.

So just as much as the mums of bad sleepers might want to be snappy with the mums who's children sleep well - I just want to make the point that although you might think 'I just got lucky'. I resent this and i truly believe it is down to the steps taken to help ds fall into a proper sleep pattern and routine.

I do acknowledge this wouldn't work for every child but wonder how many mums of bad sleepers have actually taken the right steps. I had a friend who always moaned about her ds's sleep - she held him and rocked him until he fell asleep, every night!!!! Until he was 3, fucking crazy.

confused

I

DontmindifIdo Wed 30-Oct-13 08:46:15

yes, lesson learned, you'll get a lot of this! remember, just because DCs are welcome at an event is very different to it being child-friendly.

I had this at a friend's wedding - oh they were being terribly accomodating and inviting all DCs, (the last of a large group to get married so a lot of DCs) asking you to say if your DC would need a high chair or would be fine with a normal chair, this leading a few parents to mistakenly think this would be a small child friendly wedding. I had the good sence to call and check. Wedding at 4:30pm (so when most toddlers are getting hungry), drinks next to open water until 7pm, then a formal sit down meal until 9:30pm, then dancing. All in a venue that didn't have hotel rooms so no leaving your baby in the room with a sitter.

I left DS at home with PILs, although I was apparently silly to do that. After various dashes for the water during the drinks reception, I counted 3 mums dealing with tantrums during the meal, and saw another 2 rocking babies in buggies outside the venue. (It was always the mums doing this.) Most left straight after the meal.

From now on, ask questions, ask for timings, plans etc. Don't ask for them to be changed, just find out what they are and decline invites that don't suit or make plans to fit round it, like booking a suite of rooms so you at least can have the light on, or booking a babysitter (quite frankly, for the £11 an hour I was charge last time I had to book one at a hotel, if she'd had to sit in the dark or in the corridor for that, so be it.)

Never assume children welcome is children catered for.

Sleepyhead33 Wed 30-Oct-13 08:46:41

Complete sympathy here and I understand completely.

my son was exactly the same at 1-2. He needed a cot in a dark room at 7 or it was hysterical screaming for hours.

I had the same situation with a hotel weekend for my FIL's 60th. I knew as soon as I was told about it that I would be sitting in a hotel corridor for hours! I tried to get them to consider a sc cottage (not any more expensive) but they fancied the hotel and said I could use the baby listening service. There is no way I could have done that (I worry about fire), fine if you can, but I can't.

Anyway, we did it, got through it but never again!

My daughter is much more flexible and relaxed (now 1) but even she wouldn't sleep in a buggy in a busy room with lights on etc.

bubalou Wed 30-Oct-13 08:47:49

Oh and btw - come yell agree about he late dinners - it's ridiculous to expect you to be able to take her to dinner this late and was selfish of them.

I used to hate it when IL's used to book meals for 8pm with ds. Even now he's 5, 8pm would be too late - he goes to be at 7:30pm.

Maybe just keep in mind for next time and insist you don't go. Offer for DH to go but bail out yourself and save the drama. wink

Sleepyhead33 Wed 30-Oct-13 08:51:09

bubalou-my children are both fantastic sleepers-slept through since 12 weeks and at 4 (my son) this has never changed. It's just that the sleep has to be (at night) in a cot in a dark room.
I had no problem accomodating that since I wasn't bothered that he didn't want to sleep in a buggy(couldn't get on his tummy) in the light-I wouldn't fancy that either!

however it did/does mean that hotel trips are out for a few years unless one of us wants to be sitting in a hotel room from 7pm or in a corridor! Do yes OP, I do know what you mean!

comewinewithmoi Wed 30-Oct-13 08:51:49

Bubalou, I'm afraid your spiel about babies and sleeping is crap. Yeah you though. hmm

DontmindifIdo Wed 30-Oct-13 08:54:04

Bubalou - I see what you are saying, but with both DCs, I started with just putting them down in the light and with noise, but DS only slept if it was dark and quiet. I tried the other way, but he didn't actually sleep. Now, that could be he was a winter baby, so it was dark in the evenings, it was quiet in our road, his room is in a position that you can't actually hear all that much noise from the living room or kitchen. Also he's fasinated with the hoover so won't sleep if he can hear it, he wanted to watch it. (And oddly has taken to 3 to stop being scared of the hairdryer, I don't know why, but he'd howl whenever he heard it, even if quietly in another room)

DD has been much more relaxed, but at 4 months, is starting to get difficult about noise and where she will sleep, even if I push the pram, she won't sleep in it unless I walk for over an hour. If she can hear stuff, she wants to see what it is. I tried really hard with her to get her used to noise and light, but it doesn't seem to have lasted, then again I'm a very light sleeper myself, it could well be that some people just aren't able to sleep without certain conditions, whereas others (like my DH) can sleep anywhere and through any noise.

bubalou Wed 30-Oct-13 08:54:11

Comewinewithmoi - what spiel?

I find it hard to believe that people think parents of good sleepers do nothing and that they 'just are that way'.

If that makes you feel better then you go ahead and think that.

comewinewithmoi Wed 30-Oct-13 08:55:44

How many Dcs do you have buba? For this tried and tested formula?

bubalou Wed 30-Oct-13 08:56:45

Donrmindifido - I know what you mean.

I did say in my post that I understand it doesn't work for every child.

I just hate it when people keep saying that mums of good sleepers are 'lucky' - my friend with the child that she rocks to sleep being the perfect example. She tells me how lucky I am, she is the one that rocked he ds to sleep for 3 years because she refused to let him fall asleep himself.

confused

bubalou Wed 30-Oct-13 08:58:34

I have one ds - now aged 5.

But before you et on your high horse, 4 of my friends have used this method on their children and apart from 1 who has a medical issue they all have slept through from early on and are all very good sleepers.

comewinewithmoi Wed 30-Oct-13 08:59:58

Haha thought so. This might well bite you on the ass. You are lucky,that's not to say you didn't work for it.

comewinewithmoi Wed 30-Oct-13 09:00:42

Oh your friends lied told you so. Hohum

bubalou Wed 30-Oct-13 09:06:36

You sounds a little crabby. You probably just need more sleep.

comewinewithmoi Wed 30-Oct-13 09:08:14

Well I do have 4 children not 1 so am a wee bit tired. wink

HaroldLloyd Wed 30-Oct-13 09:09:01

Some children are better sleepers than others. It's a fact.

Taffeta Wed 30-Oct-13 09:10:41

Exactly Harold, what a load of shite on this thread. I have 2 children, and thlshock they are totally different

HaroldLloyd Wed 30-Oct-13 09:13:40

I don't know why people are laying into OP really.

She was just surprised they insisted on taking DD yet didn't really seem to want to do anything with her.

They could have had an adult weekend, nice dinners, sleep ins yet at their bequest she duly took DD which meant her weekend was rubbish.

She went on the weekend, she did the child care so her DH could spend time with them.

She is just saying it was annoying.

I don't blame her.

moreyear Wed 30-Oct-13 09:14:05

My first baby slept through the night from 6 weeks - like a tiny angel luring me to have another very quickly. My second baby is 15months and still doesn't sleep through the night.

I have done nothing different, they are just different baby's.

OP you have my sympathy, I too would have to sit outside in the corridor cursing anyone walking by who had the cheek to be wearing clompy shoes.
Sounds a hard weekend for you.

mumaa Wed 30-Oct-13 09:21:05

Bubalou, I think what people are saying about those who maybe don't understand what having difficult sleeper is like is that we (including yourself from what you say) have spent a lot of time and energy to get our DC into a good sleep routine and to just take them out of that for the sake of a late dinner or grown up event is just not worth it. I think that those with children who will sleep in buggy/wherever and don't need to have this routine followed through don't understand that while other peoples children sleep well, they need certain tools to allow them to do this.

Some don't understand why I am strict with my DDs bedtime but I spent a lot of time putting this in place and I am reluctant to mess it all up as I have done it in the past thinking, oh it will be fine and then have had to spend the next night after the event with a disgruntled little one as routine is out of whack and for me it wasnt worth it.

Coldlightofday Wed 30-Oct-13 09:21:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tobiasfunke Wed 30-Oct-13 09:25:44

OP- it would've been a nightmare for me as well. DS was a bad sleeper and I would've sat outside the room because I would not have been happy to have my child asleep in a hotel room where I couldn't hear what was happening. Not just in case some bad man stole him but because I wouldn't have wanted him bawling for ages and disturbing other guests.
Thing is my MIL would've thought that was a result- she could talk to DH and it would look like a big happy family but I would've been sitting in a corridor.

I had a non sleeper but then he wouldn't sleep during the day either- a 10 or 20 minute nap was all he would take from 6 weeks old. He dropped that at 20 months. At 1 year he in was in bed late, up really early and usually with a 2 hour party in the middle of the night. He was never tired. Everyone implied that I was to blame my mother, my PIL, the nursery. He defeated them all.

bubalou Wed 30-Oct-13 09:30:53

I did say that I completely agree that op shouldn't of had to put up with the late dinner plans - they are completely inconsiderate.

I also said that I know it's completely true that you can do everything humanly possible but some children just won't sleep well.

I will be back on here crying no doubt when I have another if they refuse to sleep! It's just annoying sometimes when people keep saying 'well u got lucky'.

Brucietheshark Wed 30-Oct-13 09:32:45

I must have v low expectations, but I just thought this is all standard family fodder once you have kids.

Oh yes you MUST bring the baby. Then everything is arranged starting at 9pm and nobody gets out of bed or puts the heating on until 10am.

Many is the cold, dark corridor I've roamed at 6am with a toddler.

I honestly don't think people do it on purpose. Am clutching at straws here but take it as a positive that everyone forgets what babies are really like, and you will too!

The crucial moment is weighing up whether you say yes or no. You KNOW that yes will entail juggling, endless roaming, sterilising bottles in hotel sinks, hundreds of pushchair miles, and hissed conversations with your DP. So the question is - is it worth it for this trip or family member?

sis Wed 30-Oct-13 09:35:15

This thread has really brought out a lot of condescending nonsense from some posters.

OP, I agree that the weekend sounds awful. A lot of us have been through similar experiences and genuinely sympathise.

HaroldLloyd Wed 30-Oct-13 09:39:25

I had a good sleeper (ds1) and though I did put effort in to keep it that way i feel there IS an element of luck in it.

That's not saying you didn't put a lot if effort in though so I do see where you are coming from.

Dubjackeen Wed 30-Oct-13 09:40:26

OP, it sounds like they liked the idea of DD being there, without giving any thought to the practicalities. I hope that, at least, someone brought you a glass of wine, or even a cuppa. Chalk it down, and if there is a next time, at least you can weigh up, whether it is going to be a case of sitting in a hotel corridor, and if so, it is a polite 'No thanks'.
YANBU. brew

HaroldLloyd Wed 30-Oct-13 09:42:20

If DS1 is tired his behaviour is appalling. He hits bites and eats nothing the next day, ruining it for everyone. People get cross at him when essentially it's my fault for keeping him up. It's not fair on him.

I'm really far from a routine stickler but there are often really valid reasons where keeping a child up for the sake of a dinner is just not an option.

jellyboatsandpirates Wed 30-Oct-13 09:44:28

OP, you are DNBU. Those who are saying "babies are flexible, make them stay up later" must have never had kids and are talking out of their arse. Either that or have had little angel babies who go to sleep and sleep straight through until morning, or are fortunate enough to have kids who will be mild mannered and pleasant regardless of whatever time they go to bed so can stay up for late formal dinners.
DS2 is flexible like that, but DS1, not a chance. If he had been kept up to go to a dinner at that time he would have been absolutely hell on earth to deal with for the entire next day, miserable, tantrummy, whiny which would have made EVERYBODY'S holiday miserable.
Your PIL'S, however well intentioned their lovely gesture of all being together, just didn't think through the practicalities of their grandchild's needs.
They want late dinners and activities the next day that 1 year old's can't do/will get bored at, your baby wants early tea and to throw herself about in soft play areas or sit on the beach eating sand or whatever. smile
Two totally different needs, so neither of you are really being unreasonable. You just need different things. Say thanks but no thanks next time, as hotel rooms and small babies do NOT mix. smile

Thewalkingdeadkr Wed 30-Oct-13 09:47:02

Ha ha don't some people spout a lot of bollox!!
I love it when a mum of ONE. Thinks they know it all about babies in general!!
I had five and pretty much did the same with all if them. Some slept well, some didn't.
As they got older you could see this was reflected in them sleeping well as adults.
My worst sleeper still sleeps lightly and badly at times.
My 2 yr old has only just started to sleep regularly right through and I've tried every trick in the book.
With her I'd be definitely say in the corridor or bathroom. The only difference is that I'd have had wine!

LIZS Wed 30-Oct-13 09:47:40

Have been through similar and think it is partly so they can say to friends that everyone was there though logistically it is tricky and you felt excluded. Not sure why you had to sit in a corridor though , presumably you could have used the baby phone then too , or snuck back in when dd was asleep. Did dh bother to come and find you hmm Maybe they thought he wouldn't go without you and dd beign invited.

youretoastmildred Wed 30-Oct-13 09:52:01

I am a very nasty person because I am really enjoying reading this thread. I have always felt inadequate at things other people on mn seem to airily suggest, like stay in hotels with babies, that I just would not enjoy, or even see how it is possible on an occasion that can even loosely be described as a holiday. I would be thinking things like "how do they have a glass of wine and a film in the evening? Do their babies all sleep through things like this? or can they all afford suites? Or do they all take nannies, which is so taken for granted among mn-ers that they don't even mention them?"

It is a nasty shameful bitter little piece of pleasure to realise that it is an exhausting faff for nearly everyone else as well.

we have been on "holidays" to sc cottages, and only stayed all in one room like that when at my parents', which is kind of hell on earth but at least no one is actually paying for the room and there are other rooms with well stocked fridges, TVs, radios, and toys and books.

EmmelineGoulden Wed 30-Oct-13 09:53:55

YABU. Not because you stuck to your routine for your DD as much as you needed to, but because you seemed to think that your PILs idea of lots of time with their DGD would mean spending all day with her. I bet to them they did have a great anniversary weekend. They had their DCs with them and their DGD. They got to see their DGD as they pleased, when they pleased and got to do grown up things as they pleased too. Sounds like an ideal weekend for grandparents who don't enjoy spending lots fo time with babies.

That's much more the way things use to be. So it really isn't surprising they thought it was a reasonable plan for the weekend. Complete pain for you, no doubt and you would NBU to refuse to do the same again. But I kind of wonder why you expected it to be much different since you hint with your "they live 5 minutes away" that they aren't particularly hands on grandparents anyway.

HaroldLloyd Wed 30-Oct-13 09:59:12

I took it to mean that as they live 5 mins away they obviously see a lot of them which means there was no requirement to have DD there from that perspective.

IComeFromALandDownUnder Wed 30-Oct-13 10:02:42

I would have paid a babysitter to sit in the corridor. All hotels have babysitters they recommend.

LIZS Wed 30-Oct-13 10:04:48

I'm also not clear what activities you would expect them to choose which would have included dd. Could you not have taken them along for a while or to meet for coffee during the day ?

bubalou Wed 30-Oct-13 10:06:54

Thewalkingdeadkr - you have no right to say you know more then just because you have more children.

You might have more experience but who's to say that you know more or are a better parent then me for it - therefore you're basically saying anyone who has less kids than you is an idiot and u are superior.

All I was doing was trying to offer a different perspective from the other side and in no way did I say that the op was wrong in any form.

In typical man style there's always people that read what they want to on a post, latch on to it and spout shot because they have nothing better to do.

bubalou Wed 30-Oct-13 10:07:32

That was *mn style - not man style!

HaroldLloyd Wed 30-Oct-13 10:08:36

Sporting activities, she did say.

HaroldLloyd Wed 30-Oct-13 10:11:18

I'm willing to provide a toddler and pay the hotel bill if anyone wants to take him for the weekend! grin

Take him to a late dinner, perhaps a bit of tennis or golf.

mumaa Wed 30-Oct-13 10:13:18

Hahahahahaha brilliant harold grin

JoinYourPlayfuckers Wed 30-Oct-13 10:18:22

Oh, I got one really good, flexible, wave her in the direction of a flat surface, baby out of three.

It was BLISS.

Unfortunately she wasn't my first, so I didn't get to make that much use of her amazing skills, but I still had loads of lunches out with friends.

People who think that you should drag an unhappy, unsleeping, exhausted toddler around to force them to fit in with what suits adults who are not tired and want to drink and socialise are basically just arseholes.

Hideous. You have all my sympathy OP. I don't want to impose my timetable on others, it isn't fair, but nor is a 9pm dinner possible with DS in tow unless I want to deal with the over tired, incredible biting demon child the next day.

I can understand the impulse to try and keep others happy, but as I have come to realise the only one to suffer will be you and your child.

I tried in the past, I really did. I did a 9 PM Christmas dinner with a 6 week old who was refluxy, struggling to breast feed and not sleeping at all. I was post c section, almost hallucinating with lack of sleep, leaking from every possible outlet, tearful and stressed.

I was told the child not sleeping was my fault, and was sent to bed like a naughty toddler so everyone could play happy families with my baby and OH. Everyone else had a lovely time. I ended up crying in the dark on my own feeling like nothing more than the incubator. This has caused me no end of serious resentment and has sharpened my focus somewhat.

If it doesn't suit you and your child don't do it. Others may be upset but they will just have to get over it. It is really hard to get past the impulse to be the "good girl" and put yourself out for other people's benefit, it is conditioned into females from an early age but you have to, for your own sake.

You put yourself out to make things nice and "picture perfect" for others; they had a lovely time while you got to sit in a corridor on your own.
Chalk it up to experience, and don't fall into the trap again. wink

HaroldLloyd Wed 30-Oct-13 10:21:37

There is totally a middle way between "all about children" and "all about adults" on holiday. Why should OP have a miserable weekend?

She could have left DD at home and had a lovely time, like the 5 other adults there.

I only have sons. When I have a DIL will do my best to be a little more considerate.

trixymalixy Wed 30-Oct-13 10:28:14

I remember feeling very smug about DS's napping. My friends were all amazed when I said I was taking DS up for a nap and was down 5 mins later and he was sleeping. I thought it was because I'd done all the "right" things.

Then came DD and I followed all the same steps. Boy did I get a shock, she would not play ball AT ALL. She never napped well and dropped her naps really early whereas DS would nap for hours until he was 3 and still go down easily to sleep at night.

I did nothing different, they were just different children.

OP YANBU, staying with babies in hotel room is really not fun.

Thewalkingdeadkr Wed 30-Oct-13 10:28:36

bubalou sorry did I call you an idiot?
You sounded like one when you tried to say that because your ONE child slept well because you'd followed a formula and anyone who's child didn't was doing something wrong.
Having had five I am in a better position to compare that theory and can testify its not about what you do it's about the child and many other factors.

JoinYourPlayfuckers Wed 30-Oct-13 10:31:03

trixy - at least you got them the right way around grin

I am still a bit jealous of my friends who would pop their first babies into prams and head out for dinner 5 years later!

We couldn't even go out for lunch together, one of us would eat while the other wheeled the screaming baby around.

A flexible sleeper when you already have a toddler who needs their bed is not as much fun.

Pigsmummy Wed 30-Oct-13 10:32:32

Dinner at 8pm for me would require a babysitter, I wouldn't expect my 1 year old to stay up or sleep in a buggy past bedtime, it's not fair. I would have eaten earlier, showed up at 8 with baby to show our face and then take baby to bed, I wouldn't have sat in the corridor? Why did you do that? I would put baby to sleep in room then chilled out, had a bath, glass of wine, read for a bit and early night.

The people hosting didn't think of you in the timings so I wouldn't take any flack about not going for dinner. Other than the corridor bit yanbu

ScrabbledEggs Wed 30-Oct-13 10:35:21

Think YAB a bit U but I do remember how sleep matters just take over your life so in that sense I sympathise. But - it's just one weekend, it was important to the ILs and they were paying. It was nice that they included you all. You can imagine the AIBU threads where children are not invited. But I think you and DH should have taken turns in babysitting.

mortuusUrsus Wed 30-Oct-13 10:36:12

Oh shut the fuck up with all the self righteousness. This is one of the terrible things about MN, some posters pick up on shitty non-details and argue them to the death because, well, "my baby was fine". Agree with whoever said before me that people are getting their causes and effects muddled.

OP, it sounds like hell <pours wine>

OrangeFizz99 Wed 30-Oct-13 10:43:31

God why a hotel? Mine are nearly 2 and 4 and I would still kick up a fuss about a cocking hotel with children. Holiday homes/flats are the way to do it!

bubalou Wed 30-Oct-13 10:45:30

Thewalkingdead - and where the hell did I say that if t didn't work they were doing something wrong?

You're talking shit and making stuff up for no reason at all, just so you can talk down to me because you have more children.

You clearly can't read otherwise you would have seen me clearly say several times now that 'some children are just bad sleepers / it's not the case for all children - even if you do everything right / I will no doubt be on here with future dc crying that they won't sleep' etc.

Stop trying to pick an argument and ignoring all of the other things I have said. You clearly need more sleep.

JoinYourPlayfuckers Wed 30-Oct-13 10:47:00

I'm with you, Orange, I just don't do hotels anymore.

Unless the children are elsewhere.

HaroldLloyd Wed 30-Oct-13 10:49:41

I'm with you too. Hideous hideous hideous.

bubalou Wed 30-Oct-13 10:52:10

Forget ds - I hate sleeping in hotels!

I've seen too many of those programs where they show uv lights on the mattress etc!

The pillows are always awful and they're always so noisy - even though I can usually sleep through anything. It just feels weird sleeping in a strange room.

The only place I don't mind is center parcs, but that's a lodge not a hotel. confused

HaroldLloyd Wed 30-Oct-13 10:54:32

I stayed in a hotel room last year. DP snores like a wildebeest DS ran around in circles until 12.30. Then got up at 5.

God it was hideous.

bubalou Wed 30-Oct-13 10:59:58

Oh god Harold.

I laughed bcoz of the way you worded it but that must have been awful!

We end up staying in hotels around 5-6 times a year because of weddings and charity events etc we go to but unless I've had a few wines I struggle to sleep in them. wine

MadonnaKebab Wed 30-Oct-13 11:02:36

My top tips for extended family holidays with toddlers:

Take a supply of cereal bars so when you get up at 5-6 am you can all have a pre-breakfast before going for a big walk / to the pool / whatever

So that by the time the others are emerging for breakfast you are all ready to join them for a slap-up cooked brunch

Then nap

Dinner time, make sure DCs have been fed about 5pm
If their moods are good, join rest of family for starters, before one parent says goodbye and takes DCS up and gets them to bath / story / sleep

parent 2 eats main course then relieves parent 1 so that they can go and have desert ( I always chose to be parent 1 because starter & desert are my favourite parts of the meal)

By now Dc are asleep so Parent 2 can read with a Little book light
Or can take some cushions into the bathroom & read, or have a lovely deep bubble bath
If the rest of the family are having a late one, Parent 1 can later take over & parent 2 can go down to the bar for a few more drinks, while parent 1 gets some sleep before another early start and pre -breakfast next day

If you are lucky enough to have 2 parents still together, you should make the most of it so you both have a moderately good time, rather than one of you having a shit one

Thewalkingdeadkr Wed 30-Oct-13 11:09:36

bugalou you sound delightfull.
Well done for trying to divert from your original ridiculous post.
And you show huge compassion telling someone who has talked about their child only just sleeping through by saying "you need more sleep" I'd go steady there if I were you, we tend to be more supportive and less nasty on here.
If you don't like people disagreeing with you maybe you'd be more suited to another forum or get used to it.

Mumsyblouse Wed 30-Oct-13 11:11:55

I think the more unreasonable part isn't the sleeping arrangements, it's that they didn't do anything family friendly on the Saturday day. That was a real shame, given all the difficulties in staying there.

I also have (not so) happy memories of reading in the bathroom in the middle of the night in Travelodge, with everyone fast asleep in the other room. I can't sleep in hotels at all, and always ended up wide awake reading in the wee small hours. Hell surely must be all sleeping in the same room when you are not used to it.

BeautifulBlondePineapple Wed 30-Oct-13 11:25:53

Sounds like a nightmare to me too.

We did a similar family stay in a hotel for my dad's 60th (pre MM being taken) when we only had DS1 (he was 10mths at the time). Left him in the bedroom, went to the restaurant for a grown up dinner & monitored him over the phone system. He was fine, but I wouldn't do it now.

None of my 3 have slept well in buggies or in hotel rooms when there are adults watching tv or reading so it is self catering all the time now. The only way I would consider a hotel for a weekend away with the kids and with formal evening dinners would be to organise a babysitter to sit in an adjoining room.

bubalou Wed 30-Oct-13 11:28:46

Thank you - thewalkingdead, I am infact delightful.

Well done yourself on trying to distract from the fact you're clearly trying to make out that I have said something I clearly haven't.

Have a great day.

Caitlin17 Wed 30-Oct-13 11:42:47

At the risk of more forensic analysis, I'm still completely puzzled by the corridor.

The child is one year old and a very light sleeper. OP has said they can't be in her room when she's asleep.
Isn't she in her own room at home or is OP happy her and partner's room can't be used for anything after 7pm except quietly creeping to bed in the dark having put pjs on first in another room? If the latter that really sounds like making a rod for your back.

If she's in her own room at home why couldn't she and parents have separate rooms next to each other?

JoinYourPlayfuckers Wed 30-Oct-13 11:45:04

"If she's in her own room at home why couldn't she and parents have separate rooms next to each other?"

You would put a toddler in a separate hotel room?

Really?

My 1 year old sleeps in her own room, but if we were at a hotel (god forbid) she'd be in our room.

ipswichwitch Wed 30-Oct-13 12:10:34

^Ds was always put down for naps during the day in a room that wasn't dark, always with the radio on in a nearby room and I was never quiet. Always hoovering or tidying etc. At night, the room is dark with no white noise and so when it came to feeding him at night he could differentiate between day and night feeds and knew to go back to sleep. We also had a bed routine - bottle, bath, hugs and sleep.

Following this pattern and a few other things ds slept through from 6 weeks old. He is a great sleeper, always sleeps through (expect the odd nightmare). As a baby he would sleep anywhere and everywhere and we have been away loads of times to hotels and he sleeps there with no problem.

So just as much as the mums of bad sleepers might want to be snappy with the mums who's children sleep well - I just want to make the point that although you might think 'I just got lucky'. I resent this and i truly believe it is down to the steps taken to help ds fall into a proper sleep pattern and routine.

I do acknowledge this wouldn't work for every child but wonder how many mums of bad sleepers have actually taken the right steps. ^

we did all this. DS (2yo) is and always has been a shit sleeper. He has never slept in his pushchair while out and about - too much interesting stuff to look at. We have tried it all, and to be honest the only thing that makes life bearable is to stick to his routine and pray like fuck he sleeps for a few hours before the night terrors start.

When SIL got married (DS was 8mo), all the family said "he'll be fine - will fall asleep in his pushchair and you can get on with enjoying the wedding." DS had other ideas. He wouldn't feed properly (bf), because there was too much going on around him and halfwit family members kept coming over to coo at him while he was trying to latch on. He missed his nap and got so irritable I was glad I had arranged to take him home at 6 for bath and bed and babysitting provided by my friend.

4 months later at our wedding, MIL said she would take him home for us and put him to bed at normal time, knowing how difficult he is. On the day I missed an hour of my own wedding, because she insisted that he would be fine for another hour after his bedtime - he wasn't, he was weeping hysterically and I was left outside trying to console a massively overtired 1 yo.

We fully accept that DS is a shit sleeper, we wish others would, and stop telling us we have done something wrong and created this problem. It's never them that have to deal with a distraught overtired DS that will actually vomit if he gets too distressed, all for the sake of "being flexible". Invitations for anything that interfere with his sleep are declined, or he is left with a babysitter. Anyone who doesnt like this is more than welcome to come round and deal with him while I get a decent sleep for once.

bubalou Wed 30-Oct-13 12:21:29

Hi ipswichwitch

I really wasn't saying that it's all down to what you do. I did say that you can do all these things and they still won't work. Some children are just bad sleepers.

I was just trying to say also as a mum of a child that sleeps well that I think it isn't all down to luck. I don't believe ds would have slept through the night on his own etc if we'd have done it differently. There's all sorts of issues that arise during their early years from them crying in the night to giving in when they try and get into bed with you etc to mess up sleep and it depends how they are handled.

I'm sorry you've had such a bad time of it. I said before I completely agree about the hotel and routine issues. When invited to weddings and events that would interrupt the routine ds would stay at home with DM or we wouldn't go. I used to hate it when a certain group of my friends (all with no dc's) used to invite me round their houses for dinner as a group. If DH was away I would say I couldn't and they would say 'bring ds'. They would proceed to get funny and not understand why I wouldn't let him come to dinner at 8 until god knows when confused

BranchingOut Wed 30-Oct-13 12:45:01

See, I had the opposite situation. My lovely boy at 1 year old would have happily joined in the meal, smiling, clapping, bfing, gurgling and not tired in the least until at least 9.30 - 10.00pm, or later if possible - but then I would have found it very difficult to eat or relax myself and had people rolling their eyes and saying 'shouldn't he be in bed'?!

You can't win, unless people have some basic empathy and understanding that:

a) all babies are different
b) it is tricky to change babies ways at the drop of a hat.

Hope that you have a better time the next time this comes up.

PS. I would have sat outside too, don't feel bad for that.

Caitlin17 Wed 30-Oct-13 12:46:52

Joinyour, in adjoining/connecting rooms? What is wrong with that?

Caitlin17 Wed 30-Oct-13 12:49:50

Why couldn't OP have stayed in a connected room with the door ajar? How is that worse than being outside the room in the corridor?

WipsGlitter Wed 30-Oct-13 12:51:40

I just cannot believe all these people saying they would have sat in a corridor reading a book. That is the epitome of letting your child rule you. If they knew this was going to be an issue and it looks like it always was regardless of what time you ate, why did they not get interconnecting rooms at the very least. So you can sit in your room with wine and then your child is just through an open doorway in your room to their room.

She can't be that much of a light sleeper if you are then able to open the door, possibly turn on a light, get changed for bed, go to the loo etc etc. Did the parents do this in total silence!??! Like ninjas?

bemybebe Wed 30-Oct-13 12:58:21

Your ils are playing "happy family", so that they can then tell all their tennis buddies that wonderful grandparents they are and how they have paid to give you time away from the rut. No fucking clue what having a 1yo is like.

Been there, done that.

bemybebe Wed 30-Oct-13 13:00:11

And "adjoining/connecting rooms" does not help if one person still needs to be away from the celebrations.

ipswichwitch Wed 30-Oct-13 13:01:26

I wasn't having a go at you bubalou - I'm even more sleep deprived than usual as DS is ill, so I'm a bit ranty today! i agree, it sucks when people get all funny if you refuse and invitation that totally fouls up the routine. They dont have to deal with the fall out!

MIL is very fond of telling us all how all her DC slept well. DH remembers it differently - from as young as he remembers he would be lying awake in the dark, too scared to move as MIL had told him to not dare get out of bed until she got up or there would be hell on! So it would seem she advocates terrifying your kids into good behaviour...not a path I wish to go down with DS.

OP, I do think it's a bit shit to insist you bring your DD for a weekend away when there is absolutely nothing planned to include her - and I'm not suggesting that the whole weekend should have revolved around her.

Brucietheshark Wed 30-Oct-13 13:01:52

Lol at a mother of 5 not being able to say she might know a tad more than a mother of 1.

It's just a bigger sample for research purposes - it's inevitable.

I would see it this way. It was a bit shit and not well thought out by the in-laws. However, you made the effort for their Wedding Anniversary and I'm sure that was appreciated and, in particular, I am sure your DH is grateful for all the effort you put in to make it work.

Your in-laws have probably got into a bit of a routine with how they do things and they've forgotten what its like to have a young child.

<<note to self - if I become a MIL remember to fit in with GC routine>>

Weemee Wed 30-Oct-13 13:48:37

OP I'm with you. we are pretty laissez- faire when it comes to routines for our dd's but we don't compromise on bedtime. It's the one thing that we won't compromise on because if we do, it's dh and I who are sleep deprived monsters the next day. MIL is always really keen to go out and its always "will I book for 7?" hmm MIL doesn't like that we are pretty strict with our bedtime routine....but she's always surprised that they go down quickly....she had no routing with my dh and he still doesn't sleep for more that 4 hours at a stretch shock

Eating out with a 1 year old has to be one of the least relaxing experiences! We don't really like eating out with the dd's at the moment (3.10 she's fine....well now that she isn't 1 she is) and 7.5month old. 7.5 month old gets restless after about 20 mins and then its one of us having food with the 3.1y.o. and the other outside with the baby who wants to scream! This will pass and family means out will happen but when they're a bit older.

JoinYourPlayfuckers Wed 30-Oct-13 13:49:42

"Why couldn't OP have stayed in a connected room with the door ajar? How is that worse than being outside the room in the corridor?"

It's twice as expensive, for a start.

WipsGlitter Wed 30-Oct-13 13:55:20

Yes, but given as the in-laws were paying for them it would have not been that much if they parents had paid for the room themselves.

ginslinger Wed 30-Oct-13 13:55:40

my first 2 were martini sleep babies - anytime, anyplace, anywhere. I was Mrs Smug from Smugtown because it was all down to me being so brilliant. DC3 and I still shudder at the memories of him waking because someone would cough in another street.

friday16 Wed 30-Oct-13 13:56:27

Dinner on holiday with small children is difficult, whether you try to leave the children elsewhere or try to bring them with you.

When I had small children I took the strategic decision that lunches were nicer, both because the kids aren't as fractious and because restaurants tend to be a lot more relaxed at 12.30 than 8.30. We didn't start eating in the evenings in restaurants with the children until they were getting on for teenaged, even though they'd been to all sorts of places for lunch.

When we went to places where we fancied eating seriously, we went for lunch with the kids and were treated like royalty; I suspect that the same restaurant, the same children, six hours later would be a very different proposition. Service is faster, other customers are more tolerant, you aren't dreading putting an over-tired child to bed, the fixed price menu is about a third the price of eating a la carte in the evening. When we had grandparents with us, they were told that it would be lunch or nothing. Problem solved.

Kewcumber Wed 30-Oct-13 14:04:23

I can trump "mother of 5"!

I adopted DS from an orphanage - there were 12 children/babies per room (approximately 10 rooms.

Routine was identical for every child exactly the same bedtime every day, same nap time, same food time, even the same food - and they all ended up different. Go figure!

DS was used to sleeping in a room with other children, with lights going on and off and varying degrees of noise. He was used to changing rooms/beds every 3 months. And still he struggled to sleep with someone in the room with him, with anything more than the mildest of background noise (soothing lullaby music kinda thing). He just isn't programmed to sleep - he dropped a nap early <<sob>> and has never napped since no matter how tired. He can stay awake as long as you let him and will still be up by 6.30am at the latest except about once a month when he wakes at about 7.30.

Doing things one way or another might make a bit of a difference but all the attempted programming in the world doesn't make every child react the same way.

Believe me I know [smug]

Kewcumber Wed 30-Oct-13 14:04:55

Oh and what CHasz said above at 13:26

EvenWickedierDevil Wed 30-Oct-13 14:15:33

I'm sorry it does sound a bit rough. DH and I learned early that LOs and hotels made for a miserable experience and went SC for the next decade!

As others have said, your DD will settle in time, but for now she, and you need her routine. This doesn't stop others doing their thing, but you are fine to put the needs of your family first.

A tip I would offer is to try audiobooks. I am a big fan of audible, and it has been a life saver. I can listen to a good book (and drink wine) in the dark. You might try this? At least then you could be with DD and it would be a lot more comfortable than a corridor.

mumaa Wed 30-Oct-13 14:25:15

Oh my goodness friday so true! I have finally convinced ILs to go for a family lunch in a couple of weeks rather than the usual dinners which are just a bit painful towards the end for us and I am hoping they will see that it's a far more pleasant experience and if they want DD included that this is a better option. I have been asking for this to be an option for over 14 months so glad I finally got an 'ok then'

I don't expect the world to revolve around my DC but when you have the option of a pleasant lunch when DD is not cranky and is full of life and fun or a late dinner when DD really should normally be winding down for bed, ate her own dinner a while ago and isn't interested in sitting at a table and we have to try to wrestle poor DD into coat/pushchair/car seat at home time when she just wants left in peace... I know which I would prefer!

youretoastmildred Wed 30-Oct-13 15:05:51

The weird thing is that it doesn't bother other people. I went out to lunch with a 10 month old the other day. She was really pretty good and we didn't push our luck too much, but there was a bit at the end when we were all very much all hands on deck, waiting for the bill to finally arrive so we could get out of there. Once we had gone past the point of no return it was no fun for anyone. Why do others not feel this?

My dad is a classic for this - it all goes so over his head - he has never altered a hair of his plans for anyone

Fluffymonster Wed 30-Oct-13 15:17:41

I sympathise with OP - my ILs used to expect us to join them for Christmas/New Year in an hotel. They're semi retired but work part time running special events, so their busiest times are holiday season.

Invariably, they work over the festive period, so we would go and see them. They also kindly paid for our accommodation - but DP would be counted as casual paid staff, so he was obliged to be on hand to help out for hours throughout each day. As a childfree couple this was OK, as I could chill out in the hotel room, watch tv etc while everyone else did their thing (though even then I felt a bit like a spare part). Then everyone met up for evening dinner at 8pm. So out of a whole day - most of it was hanging around and then a social bit at night.

It changed when dd1 came along - or rather our needs as a family changed but nothing else in terms of ILs/DP's expectations did! I remember when she was 6mths old and trying to entertain her and myself all day, with sporadic company, trying to sort out regular feeds and naps (i.e. not able to leave the room or make too much noise for 1-2hrs morning and afternoon) - being stuck in a place with none of the conveniences of home - and DP off socialising/working. Then dragging her downstairs with me for dinner which threw her sleep pattern off. Everyone else had a lovely time, and as others have mentioned, it's a chance for the grandparents to show off their grandchild when other guests coo and fuss - comment on how cute etc. and basically be able to say how all the family got together etc.

The next year was worse - I foolishly agreed again precisely because it's a family occasion and 'naice' for everyone (else). I was 7mths pregnant and dd1 was 18mths by then. Ended up spending New Years Eve perched on a cold, hard toilet seat alone in the bathroom, just so I could at least read my book quietly, while waiting for my restless dd to settle in the main room, with the lights off, tv off etc. Couldn't leave her to go off to dinner. So ended up climbing in to bed 9pm as too bored sitting in the bathroom. Tbh it was a miserable, boring, and exhausting couple of nights.

Following year - dd1 was 2.5yrs old, dd2 was 9mths. They even had different naptimes, different sleep patterns. At home they both had their own rooms. I refused to be the killjoy so turned it back onto them and asked them what they suggested regarding that - how could DP and I share our childcare duties fairly so I could get a decent break too? As far as I could tell, either DP would need to be on hand for myself and the kids - i.e. do his share of entertaining both of them, throughout the day and be around in the evening so that I could go down to dinner for a change...or we would need to have adjoining rooms so I could at least watch TV once they were in bed. That gave everyone pause for thought, and strangely enough at that point ILs and DP seemed to get it, that it "might be more hassle than it's worth".

Since then we go and see them, but don't do the hotel stay.

jellyboatsandpirates Wed 30-Oct-13 16:25:20

I wouldn't have sat in the corridor? Why did you do that? I would put baby to sleep in room then chilled out, had a bath, glass of wine, read for a bit and early night.

OK, I'm curious. How exactly do you do that then (have a bath, read etc) when there's only one hotel room? Which I've unfortunately had to do endure in the past.
If baby had been put down in bed with me still in there next to him reading, he'd have been boinging about in his cot and being extremely cross as he'd think he'd be missing out on something and have been yelling. hmm
If he'd have been left in silence he'd have been out for the count in 5 seconds flat.
So I can completely see where the OP is coming from sitting out in the corridor if that was the only way to settle her 1 year old.
In my case, I turned the lights off and pretended to go to sleep myself then when he was fast asleep (about 10 minutes later) THEN I turned the light on and could read. grin

Tinpin Wed 30-Oct-13 17:09:04

Half your problems would have been solved if you had got a sitter. I'm a sitter for a local hotel and I'm ace at getting small children to sleep in hotel rooms and then sitting outside the room with my book!! Since your hotel room had been paid for I imagine this would have been an affordable expense.Secondly I don't understand why you couldn't have given your daughter something to eat when she woke up, gone for a refreshing early morning walk and then joined your family for a well earned breakfast, Sometimes we have to look for solutions to problems rather than moaning about them. I'm sure the weekend brought your IL a great deal of happiness. Try to think about that.

Tinpin I doubt very much that anyone whose baby is as sensitive as OP's, or mine at a similar age ::shudders at memory, though he LOVES his sleep now:: would be able to book a babysitter so I don't think your comment is helpful hmm

mortuusUrsus Wed 30-Oct-13 17:17:36

Yes come along children, tally ho, let us begin our 5.30 am jaunt across the moors. Look spritely now, for we shall return to a well earned tiffin! Remember children, you must always earn your tiffin. Chop chop!

catus Wed 30-Oct-13 17:18:06

I'm mainly a lurker in here, but I just need to say to the OP: YANBU.
Having a hard to settle baby is a nightmare. It's just completely shit. And there is nothing you can do about it, you just have to accept that is how it is and endure it while it lasts.
But what I can't accept is that it is made much worse by all the "oh come on, babies are so portable and flexible, let's all be cool and relaxed parents" brigade. From the pit of your exhausted frustration, you can see the patronising looks and hear the snide comments, you just know they think it's all your fault. And it hurts, because you know you look like an uptight and pathetic human being, which is not pleasant.
So please, people, don't assume you know everything, don't offer "helpful" suggestions, just show some compassion.

Tinpin Wed 30-Oct-13 17:48:22

Yes, sorry I did sound a bit like Enid Blyton! Surely though I can't be the only parent who has been out in the hotel garden or wandering along the beach several hours before breakfast. Breakfast always tasted so much better for the enforced early start and exercise. Obviously my suggestion of a baby sitter is seen as unhelpful as well. I never suggested it was the it was the OP 's fault . I was just thinking about a way in which she could have maybe enjoyed the weekend a bit more.

notonnelly Wed 30-Oct-13 18:15:05

Wow! Okay, to respond to points;

- Interconnecting rooms not an option. They don't do them in that hotel.

- At home DD does not sleep in with us. She moved into her own room at 6 months.

- To whoever it is who seems strangely curious about what happened when I went to bed. I went in, went to bathroom, changed to pjs and went straight to bed/sleep. She stirred a little, but not enough to fully awake (she had been asleep for a couple of hours at this point, so pretty deep). Perhaps you think getting changed in the bathroom is creating a rod for my own back. Not sure how it is? Please explain. Am I meant to keep on going into DD's room and creating noise (thus waking her up), in the hope she will eventually get used to it. Fuck that for a bag of toffee

- DD is generally a very very good sleeper. Sleeps through. Settles relatively easily in her own surroundings. But she won't sleep ANYWHERE and is a LIGHT SLEEPER! That is the bottom line

- Hiring a sitter? At this stage DD isn't at nursery and has never been looked at by a stranger. Does a sitter really sound like it would work. It doesn't to me

- Why didn't I go and sit in the bar once she was asleep? Again, it was a ten minute walk away and monitor didn't work there. I make no apologies for not doing that. What sort of parent would leave (these days) their 1 year old in that situation?

notonnelly Wed 30-Oct-13 18:16:05

Ha, meant looked after, not looked at by a stranger! I am not that pfb!

Pilgit Wed 30-Oct-13 18:20:58

Personally I would have done a lot more research on the hotel and IL's plans before the weekend - so could have pointed out the issues with timings if they 'really wanted' their GD to be there but then we all have 20/20 in hindsight (and I am an anally retentive planner who assumes the worst and doesn't just trust that things will be ok). It does sound very odd that they really wanted her there but then arranged things without her during the day - when she would be at her best - and then late meals, which are always going to exclude a small person. My MIL for her 60th arranged afternoon tea at a hotel near us (and got everyone else to travel) so that DD could be there. That is the kind of thing that considerate grandparents that want their grandchildren involved do. It sounds bloody awful.

waterrat Wed 30-Oct-13 18:31:21

Completely yanbu - people forget what it's like. As ds has got older I am so pleased to realise how stressful things like hotels are and completely avoid them

whatareyoueventalkingabout Wed 30-Oct-13 18:52:13

love your responses OP. YANBU.

mootime Wed 30-Oct-13 19:08:06

I've not read the whole thread, but wanted to say that I totally empathise. Ds was exactly like your DD, and while we did holiday while he was younger it was a real strain. Dd came out just knowing night from day and was and mostly is, a peaceful little thing who was totally flexible re sleep and would sleep anywhere until I got too pregnant in a sling on me. As such it shows that it is totally dependent on the child. I never forgot how difficult ds was and was sure that Dd would transform into a terrible sleep theif, but she never did (although mornings are a different matter). People who have only ever had children like DD really don't get the horror of a child who come what may is a terrible sleeper.

So OP you are definitely not being unreasonable. My ILs are very similar and just expected DS to fit around them and simply didn't get what was so hard about it. I also understand not wanting to leave your DD with a phone monitor. I find that terrifying and have only ever done it once.

Maybe next time suggest doing something separate if things haven't improved, or book a room that can be divided off so that you are not stuck in the corridor.

notonnelly Wed 30-Oct-13 19:09:08

I did ask what the plans were re night times before we went away. I was assured that the bar etc was really close by and the monitor would work. I was told Friday night we would have an early family dinner (which turned out to be a tad late and in a formal place) and sat night was a formal meal, after DD went to bed. I did ask and therefore it was clear DD wasn't to be part of it.

I didn't expect them to bend over backwards to fit in with DD and her routine and quirks. I was really just surprised that they were so so keen for DD to be there and twittering on about it to everyone. But that didn't match up with how things were.

Greenfircone Wed 30-Oct-13 19:27:57

Yanbu!

I'm totally eye rolling at all the 'old schoolers' telling you your child should be more flexible.

CuriosityCola Wed 30-Oct-13 19:45:13

I agree with not wanting to use the monitor. I don't like the idea of there being a fire in the hotel and not being able to get to the room.

FixItUpChappie Wed 30-Oct-13 21:49:22

I'm shocked at the number of people suggesting a baby monitor in this day and age. I wouldn't get a hotel babysitter stranger either.

A baby is pretty portable but a 1 year old is not just a baby who will drop off anywhere with a bit of pushing in a buggy - at least mine weren't.

My ILs once set up a family weekend away where they booked a shared a rented condo. It was a first and last type of experience. They too booked expensive fancy meals late in the evening - where we paid a fortune to for the privilege of placating our overtired 19 month old the whole time. They thought nothing of drinking, yelling and whooping it up in the next room thoughtfully waking our son up for hours each night. They couldn't be arsed to shut up for even 30min - not for night sleep, not for naps.....they made no concessions to the parents and young child who didn't have the luxury to just do whatever, whenever. They also tutted and moaned (loudly) about inflexibility. Stuff them. We will never do it again.

Hotels with young children who are light sleepers suck. Even if you don't sit in the hallway....its not much more glamorous to sit in a dark hotel room staining to hear the television at its lowest pitch or reading by flashlight. As if I'm the only one to have done it! Doubt it.

wiltingfast Thu 31-Oct-13 21:58:28

Well some people are just determined to be inconvenienced and will pooh pooh every suggestion that might mean they have a good time too.

I'm lost as to the sins of using a baby monitor? Is it a fire I'm supposed to be worried about? Or a kidnapper? Or a meteorite? Or an alien invasion?

Fluffymonster Fri 01-Nov-13 21:24:15

My worry over using a baby monitor was that it wouldn't be very effective in a hotel where there are lots of other signals, and perhaps other people using monitors too.

I was never convinced that a device made for home use, would funtion down several floors, along huge corridors, around the other side of the building.

Twoandtwomakeschaos Fri 01-Nov-13 22:43:13

LittleGrey That's horrid!!

Liveinthepresent Fri 01-Nov-13 23:01:11

Fix it up I just read your entire post out to DH in the tone I think you meant it. Well said smile

HissyFucker Sun 03-Nov-13 00:01:34

It's all about appearances. They want to be able to say that they took ALL their family out, including the children and everyone was falling over themselves to be there on their special day.

They will say/tell you anything they need to to get that.

Reality is, to them, "meh", whatever, and as long as they've achieved their goal, nothing else matters.

You and your child are pawns to an extent.

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