I need some perspective on this, are they unreasonable or are we?(65 Posts)
I've kind of written about this before, then it escalated and escalated and now it's just ridiculous.
DH's brother and his (then) fiancée were getting married abroad in a big huge wedding (where she's from and where her family all live.)
After a really hard road to conceive and with help from the wonderful Mr Shehata, I was pregnant and due a few weeks before the wedding.
With the cost, the baby and the fact I was going to be having a c section, we thought it a bit difficult to attend.
Back and forths (many Many arguments) and them asking DH to be best man and our older DD to be a flower girl we thought it would be irreparable to our relationship if we didn't go, so suggested to them that we would arrive the Thursday evening, have the wedding on the Friday, then fly home Saturday morning, leaving newborn DD2 with my parents for as little time as possible.
They said this was unacceptable, and that due to a wedding rehearsal, we all had to come Tuesday.
My DH is a self employed contractor so doesn't get paid if he doesn't work, and had already planned to have some time off when the baby was born / work from home so couldn't take the piss. (And we couldn't afford it!)
They countered that they had come away to our wedding.. But we had paid for them and there hadn't been any children involved at the time.
It became ridiculous, they told everyone I had called her a bad mum (which I would never) and spread a few more rumours. Then refused to speak to us... For about three months.
During this time we didn't see them or their son, or DH's parents at all (who they were living with.)
I ended up in hospital with a few pregnancy problems and DH sent them a message saying how ill I was and that we missed them and it was all so stressful, and they ignored it.
I had my baby, and messaged them and sent them a picture, and they ignored it.
My baby has been Very difficult. And I've suffered from postnatal depression, and still do.
Two days before the wedding DH heard that a guy that hates him was now being best man and was planning to make some jokes about him in the speech and got really upset, which is totally uncharacteristic of him, so I bit the bullet, asked my mum to have my baby, and we flew there and went to the wedding.
It was awful, the jokes happened, we were seated with some of her cousins who clearly made their thoughts known and it was just a very awkward day. We told her at the reception she looked beautiful, great wedding and she said how brilliant it was that we had come.
So, once we were home, we thought everything would improve, but it's now been three more months and my baby is now 4 months old and they still hasn't spoken to us, continued to spread rumours, and make things difficult.
I got an unexpected email from her today saying that DH's parents want us to get together for a Christmas Day (a few days before as she's going home to her family.)
I replied saying that to be honest, after not seeing each other or speaking for basically three months, wouldn't it be a little strange to just all get together for a Christmas Day? What with the totally hurtful situation with my baby, the wedding and the rumours and lies (all over a rehearsal!!) if they were willing to apologise, we'll drop it and we can talk about Christmas.
She said absolutely no way will she apologise and that she'll happily go back to silence, and they'll have Christmas without us.
We uses to be so close, the fact it, I miss her, DH misses his family, our nephew has no idea who we are and my DD (and new baby) never see that side of the family.
But we feel so hurt. Over a rehearsal!!!
Should we just drop this? Go to Christmas and grit our teeth? AWBU? Or are they?
Sorry it's long!!
Wow, that is really long. Didn't want to drip feed!
They are being dicks. If all you've said is true, they're just mean.
They are being really mean, do you need mean people in your life at the moment ?
I think theyWBU originally but if you miss them why not just drop it. Life's too short for grudges that don't work for you.
They don't sound like particularly understanding or even nice people. And to be honest, it's horrendous form to let the best man at the wedding take the piss out of guests who've spent quite a sum of money attending.
I get that you miss them, but for me what they've done is irreparable without an apology.
Sorry I can't help more.
I don't think I'd want to be in contact with anyone who used their wedding as an opportunity to let a friend make jokes about my dh. It's sad, but sometimes you have to let relationships slide. Just because they are family does not mean they have the right to treat you so badly and get away with it without an apology. The fact she responded in that way shows she still sees you as firmly in the wrong, and is not even trying to be reasonable about your position. I think you're better off without them.
Only you know what's right for you, but there is no ways earth I would drop it, but then I'm stubborn and hold a grudge!
I think your bil and sil havebehaved appallingly. What have your pil said about it all.
If I were you I'd concentrate and you, your dh and your baby. You don't need the stress have having to deal with all her shit. Don't allow her to bully you.
YANBU at all, that sounds like an appalling situation.
I'm not surprised you are hurt and angry, they have all behaved disgracefully and selfishly.
But the one thing I would suggest is that you can't ask for an apology. It would be meaningless anyway if it were given because it was asked for, but it also runs the risk of putting you in this position now, where they have refused and you still have to decide whether to 'back down' and go anyway without the apology or stick to your guns and stay away when you would really like to go.
Do you see DH's parents when BIL and SIL are not there? Or have you been cut off from them all?
They are rude and horrible people. Really really you don't need to try to make friends with them, they should be falling over themselves to suck up to you, stop trying. (Are you the one who's in laws wanted to move in when you were due so they could overhaul the house in order to host a pre-wedding event or something similar? If so, you need ot accept your DH's family are all batshit crazy and if you end up with them not in your lives this is only a good thing as long term, they will bring you nothing but more crazy)
DH's parents were having their house renovated, were going to be staying with us but with our baby due went to live with BIL & SIL...
So they basically haven't seen my new DD at all. They came to her christening, and DD2 needed the doctor urgently the other day so they came to watch my 3 year old and saw her briefly. Didn't get her a thing when she was born, or for her christening.
Every time we tried to mention 'the feud' she said she couldn't get involved or take sides... But then hasn't seen us for six months a few days aside.
She told us at the wedding not to be negative and not to spoil the day they'd paid so much for (which obviously we wouldn't! For fear of being outnumbered for one! ) but refuses to say anything to her when I was so ill in hospital. It's been really hard on my DH and we fight about it all the time.
Dontmindifido - yes that was me! But they went to BIL's in the end as they were going to be away doing wedding planning a lot of the time.
Building work ran over and went horribly wrong though so they've actually only just moved out of there!
My god these were the people that wanted to move in with you while you had your baby because it was convenient for them? That thread gave me chills. Did SIL also ask you to stop TTC at some point?
You are so well rid.
Ye Gads, what a nightmare! Absolutely well rid, though I understand your sadness. But you can only lament what "was". What they are now is unreasonable, uncompromising, horrible folk. Nowt as queer. You have nothing to feel bad about ref the decisions you made. It will be their loss ultimately.
They sound like a very unpleasant and self-serving pair. Spreading rumours? Does she think she's in junior high school or something? Sounds like a toxic situation and you're better off out of it. Nasty people.
I think you are seeing their real side, before when they were nice to you that was because it suited them, it doesn't now so they aren't bothering. it's going to be hard for your DH, but just be supportive to him. You can't fix them, just not try to fix the relationship. They are the ones missing out and they probably don't even realise now.
Your MIL has taken sides, so be it. Spend Christmas day with your parents and lovely DCs, not people who only want you there for the photos, it's not about spending the day with people they are the closest too as they aren't that fussed about you for day to day. Don't give them the big family christmas if they can't arsed with the whole family thing on every other day of the year.
It's not often I'd say you're better off without them, but seriously, what would you want to keep in contact for? After the other posters shed a bit of light on the previous thread concerning the PILs, and the fact they haven't given a shite while you were having a hard time, I'm seriously thinking if it were me I'd cut ties.
Family should be there during the hard times, not adding to them.
I'll let you in on a secret...to a certain extent, you CAN choose your family. Show your DH the reactions on this thread at the very least. Their behaviour is outrageous.
YANBU to cleanse your life of these people (it's a phrase I heard recently and seems very apt here). The have behaved appallingly, and so have PIL.
However, if your dh wants to maintain contact, I think that's his choice and you have to allow and support that relationship...we don't get to pick our parents
You will miss them less when you make a decision. I'd treat it lime a divorce and make a conscious effort to build new friendships with other people.
What a bunch of arseholes! I don't know how you can go back seeing as they've been spreading lies about you.
First off, they were being utter, utter twats. Really awful. I only hope they remember it all when their first baby is born.
If it's causing problems between you and your DH I think that would be my priority. What has to happen, between you two, for this not to cause you arguments?
WRT the wider family feud, it sounds like they persist in unreasonableness which means you won't resolve this reasonably. Everyone will continue to think whatever crazy story they've made up about why a tiny, poorly baby and her family should quit their whining and don their glad rags for a wedding. But - and I'm not saying that you shouldn't think that they are awful cunts - your story about what awful cunts they are is causing you such pain. What benefits does it bring you?
To be honest, the thing I find hardest to get my head around was that you felt strongly enough about the bad mouthing/fact that the best man was going to make jokes about your DH for you to disregard your PND, arrange childcare for a new baby and haul off to a wedding abroad! To get joked about etc anyway. They sound appalling, entitled, obnoxious people, but you sound over-invested in them. Surely you can see that, whatever your past relationship, the people they are now see you as without value, to be taken for granted?
I know it seems sad now but you are well rid. They are quite simply, horrible people.
I'm sure I vaguely remember your thread about your in laws wanting to move in and was then.
They sound awful tbh. I can understand you feeling sad about losing the relationship, but I think if they can behave like that they never really felt the same about you.
I have had similar experiences with family and you do need to 'mourn' what you have lost or what you thought you had but never did. It is sad though because it doesn't need to be so nasty, however if they are acting so badly there's nothing you can say or do to change that, you can only change the way you react to them.
QueenMedb - I know, but at the time DH and I were arguing so much about it, I honestly thought it would fix the situation.
That's why it hurts so much that it didn't.
I am very drunk and so not able to judge! I have saved this so I caan have a look in the morning!
They sound awful. Going there will be expensive, stressful and exhausting. Stay at home and have a nice day with your own family.
Look at your relationship with them.
What are YOU getting from it? Are you getting love, respect, trust, friends...? Doesn't sound like it to me.
I'd say "sod them" and move on. Concentrate on the family and people who do love and want you. Everyone else can bog off.
Be civil and polite if and when they want to chat to you again. But I wouldn't waste anther second on them if I were you.
They sound awful. Going there will be expensive, stressful and exhausting. Stay at home and have a nice day with your own family.
I remember your earlier thread! Gosh, they are rather toxic, this lot. Talk us through what you get out of 'mending' the relationship? And talk us through what you get out of giving up on it and focusing on beneficial new ones? We should assume that they won't change their positions in relation to the last year
because they are the embodiment of cuntishness
Sorry to hear that you pg didn't go well, how is the baby now?
My god, you are so well shot of the lot of them!
I remember some of the earlier threads by OP on this.
I don't know what you do, but big distancing in order I thinks.
Awful situation, and these people sound unbelievably toxic. If I were you, I'd concentrate on you and your DH's relationship. Forget an apology from these people, I'm sure it would be meaningless anyway from them, but think about Xmas for your DH's sake and use it to bide your time over how you see the future with (or without) these people. Keep an open mind, but if nothing improves and they continue to be hideous, be prepared to stay away. At least you'd have tried.
I can only echo what others have said and confirm that these people are horrible. I would not want them in my life.
My family is tiny, there are not many examples that make me think this sad. Choose people to share your life with, no one who behaves like this is worth cring for. You are mourning the people you hoped they were.
Nope, these are not nice people - in fact, they sound pretty vile.
I can understand that this must be horrible for you and incredibly hurtful, but you owe them nothing. Stick 2 fingers up to them (metaphorically or otherwise...), stay at home, and enjoy Christmas with your own wee family.
They sound like my sil and bil. They organised their wedding at the same time we were due dc2. They knew our due date and yet deliberately chose that weekend. Even made dh the best man... As if that would make me delay the arrival of baby. We live about 6hr drive away (one way) so not like it was an hour away or so.
They've now had a baby. Just. One would think they'd understand more now... But they are still twattish.
Ignore and distant yourself. Easier said than done. I know. I've actually proposed that we go up there for Christmas because I knew we'd get flak otherwise. In laws however appear to be on our side. That's one saving grace.
Invite dh's parents for new year and do xmas 2013 #2 with them - separate the relationship with them away from mr and mrs twat features for dh's sake - if they bring it up then take the opportunity to make sure they know your side of the story - I doubt they could be under any illusions but they have had the toxically happy couple's version of events probably replayed over and over again while they were living there.
As for the not taking sides - the pil lack of attention etc to new gc etc says otherwise - I think that is something that your dh would have to bring up if they remain distant despite having moved out of toxic central.
Only reason I think they reacted the way they did in the first place was maybe hurt? However, any rational person would have understood and would have made alternative arrangements. It's blown completely out of proportion and personally I think they're out of order
Just stay away from the crazy people.
There isn't anything you can do to make them want to spend time with you, so accept that and stay away.
If DH's parents are not taking sides then just invite them over as and when.
If you do see them at family things, smile and nod, polite but distant.
This is going to sound really weird and I'm not underestimating the crap you've already been through, but (am ready to be flamed here) if its causing trouble between you and dh could you use this 'christmas' to say to him that you will try one more last last time and if they continue to be like this that he must never expect you to do what they want again? I partly say that because it is coming between you and partly because you said you miss them? (Gets coat and slinks away)
That's what I thought too... But our arguing is more about DH being fed up of trying anymore and how much it gets to me.
SIL and I were both shift workers for a few years and spent all our days off together during the week, watching movies and having lunch etc..then when I had DD1 and she became pregnant with our nephew we all went to rhyme time and walked around the shops / did baby groups... That's why this has left something of a hole in my life.
DH undoubtedly misses his family but is so completely pissed off with her (that she's essentially kept him from his family for 6 months) that he wants to give up.
You've got a wonderful 4 month old baby to enjoy, you shouldn't be dealing with their shit, you should be making the most of your little one. They are being utterly unreasonable.
I think you're DH is right to want rid. She might have left a hole but you'll find other, nicer people to hang out with. Honestly, she sounds vile.
Listen to DH; he's speaking sense. It is horrible and you are right but being right is not any comfort and won't change her mind or make your PiL back you up or change that the lot of them have let you down. Going over and over it in your mind won't change how dreadful it all seems and won't change the outcome. You are definitely right but it won't do you any good, won't help you fill the hole in your life and won't persuade anyone of anything except you that you are terribly hurt upset, and it won't help you fill the hole in your life.
So what can you do, given that you can't change anyone's mind or behaviour?
Holy crap! I did NOT realize those PILs who wanted to move in and that SIL who was having the wedding abroad were the same family. Okay, they are just ridiculous people. On both those threads they sounded just madly entitled and completely lacking in perspective.
Putting together their (again, madly entitled) behavior on each separate topic, it's clear imo. that the four of them are all really overinvested in each other's happiness, to the point of supporting each other in really unreasonable and downright mean behavior no matter how extreme, and not at all invested in your happiness. Whereas you and your DH are taking the sort of normal friendly family approach of everyone being invested in everyone else's happiness in a caring-but-still-have-reasonable-boundaries sort of way.
Of course you must miss them. It really must be a big hole. But their behavior has been awful. Do you think perhaps your DH could write them a letter just setting out how and why you both found their actions so unnecessary and so hurtful, closing it saying that you both miss them very much but you're not able to be the family scapegoats or the family doormats? I just wonder, if the letter were very calm, very simple in laying out the facts and your feelings, no inflammatory language, firm but regretful, etc., it might really strike them what they have been acting like.
B/c reconciliation will only work out if they can see how unreasonable they've been. And they just can't seem to see or hear it at all. But the experience of reading that letter might lay it bare to them in a way they couldn't avoid.
Btw. I'm sorry you had such a hard time after your DD was born. I hope you're feeling okay now, and her too.
Think of it this way - is this the type of people you want your children being exposed to? Do you want them growing up thinking that this is normal?
Listen to your husband. He's got a point.
I too think your DH is right here.
Cut the toxic bil/sil out. I would cultivate some sort of relationship with the pil for dh and dc sake possibly.
Very much on your terms and very much that they remain neutral and that that neutrality is demonstrated. I.e not by saying they aren't taking sides but then not visiting for weeks.
"our arguing is more about DH being fed up of trying anymore and how much it gets to me."
So stop trying. Your DH is right to be fed up, his entire family are shits. he accepts that and now it is time for you to accept it. Read your own OP, how can you not see them for what they are? Stop arguing and start agreeing with your DH. I know you said that you miss her, but IMO the person you miss may have existed once but does not currently exist and is unlikely to exist ever again. And as for his parents - you are well rid of them as well. I remember your 'remodelling the house for a party' thread; they are, as someone has already pointed out, batshit crazy.
I am always amazed at how much the idea of faaaaamily has a hold over people, where they will move heaven and earth to facilitate a relationship between their DC and (usually toxic) grandparents/wider family, without considering whether that relationship will be healthy for their DC or whether it will in time turn out to be the total headfuck that their (the parents) relationship with these toxic relations already is.
Step away from the crazy people.
You know, I had not picked up the fact that your DH just wants to let them go. Since they are his family and it's just causing you to fight, I think I would go with his preference, at least for a while -- maybe down the road he and you and they will feel differently.
I agree with your DH. I understand that you are hurt, and burning with the injustice that has been meted out to you and your DH, but this woman has not only shat on you and your family personally, but also got all of DH's family to do the same!
HOW can you want to be "friends" with this shallow bitch? Seriously?
Let it go.
Re. DH's family - well, they've made their choice. They are losing out. Your DC don't need pathetic people like that in their lives - they need honest decent people who actually care about them, which clearly your DH's family don't, or they wouldn't have behaved so badly and would have stood up to the selfish bitch.
Go out! Find new friends, forget about this one, she's no friend to you or your family.
Your dh is the only person thinking reasonably in this whole saga.
I think your dh is right. If you are lonely and miss her then start making an effort to meet other people. Being lonely doesn't mean you have to put up with people treating you like shit.
I remember your house sharing and bonkers in law thread.
Cut them out, they're all selfish and entitled wankers who add nothing to your life.
You have valued sil more than she ever valued you and the fact that your bil let the best man make jokes about his own brother at the wedding is just dispicable.
Enjoy your life with your dh and children.
I wouldn't ever speak to them again. But I'm a stubborn mofo.
Sorry if this has already been said but next time your PILs say they can't take about it because they don't want to be involved it would be worth pointing out that they are already involved and have clearly taken sides since they are continuing a good relationship with them but not with you.
Didn't see the other threads so I don't know the whole story, but they sound nightmarish.
I had difficult family relations with my Dad around the time I had my DC; he was basically really disappointed with me that I'd 'gotten myself pregnant'. DH and I were married, had a nice house and both had good jobs. He was generally awful; berating me and putting me down; I'm convinced it had a role to play in my PND, which was horrendous btw. Eventually, we had to cut contact for a while, and see the pair of them only about 3 times a year so that DC have a choice about the relationship.
My point being; we all have 'those people' in our families. My DH was very much 'mrsziggie. I know they are your parents, but they are horrible, vindictive people. We need to stop seeing them so you can not be bothered by it any more.' I was just so desperate to fix the situation, I really couldn't see his POV. It caused a few ructions between us.
I do feel better now with them more or less out of our lives though. A few months after I moved on; I felt so much better I was able to stop taking my anti depressants. It had been affecting me that much
They sound like rude, spoiled little people. Hunker down a little bit with the people who like you best. You don't need the friendship of people like that. Why would you want it? What are they actually bringing to the table here? Apart from being your DH's family?
I think you need to stop trying.
We don't speak to dh's brother and his wife. Her behaviour has been very similar and they have become so nasty and horrible that 4 years has been bliss without them. I know they miss us more than we miss them.
Family isn't always about blood, it's about the people who you want in your life. Do you really want to constantly be on edge about, what they may do next.
Listen to your dh, stop trying and enjoy what you do have. Invite the inlaws over more and if they ignore you, then you know where you stand.
Thanks everyone, you're all right.
I do have lots of other friends, I just loved spending time with her / them.. As did DH before all this.
DH has a big extended family of lots of cousins the same age as us, with children the same age, lots of lovely aunts & uncles, it's just ruining family occasions because of her. (And BIL to some extent, though I suppose you should always stand by your wife.)
I know an apology would mean nothing, that's why I don't understand why she won't just do it, even just to placate DH.
It makes me feel heartbroken because it feels like no one gives a shit about my baby, her aunt & uncle, her grandparents... They didn't care when I was ill and pregnant, they didn't care when she was born and they don't care now. I really think all this has contributed to how hard it's been with her and I do hate them for that. I suppose I feel more than anything that I just want her to take some responsibility for how shit this how situation is and that she caused it.
I'm sorry, OP but I can't even see what the issue is here. Why on earth would you want to remain "friends" with such vile people? If your DH say step away, and they are his family, then I really think you need to listen.
I understand you may miss the friendship you had with this woman but I can't imagine it will ever get to be on the same level it was again. Cut your losses, move on to make new friends and concentrate on those who genuinely do care about you, I.e. Your family, dh and dc.
I know it sounds simplistic but life doesn't have to be that complicated.
If your side of the family are good to you, and your DH is happy to leave it... Then I would tbh. No good can come from trying. Once you actually make your decision, and stuck with it, I promise you'll feel a lot better.
I hadn't realise how much I'd been affected by it until about a month after, I think it was at Christmas as well; I realised I felt well for the first time in about 2 years. PND is horrific. Anything or anyone affecting it should be addressed sharply, and removed from your life until you are well again.
You poor thing.
I feel like drop kicking the lot of them for you.
Your SIL has shown her true colours. You have a right to miss the person you thought was your friend. This toxic bitch is not that person. You do not need this sort of behaviour in your life. Just because they are family does not give them the right to behave towards you in this way.
Time to move on and leave them in the past. Look forward to meeting genuine people in the future.
I hope you have a lovely Christmas with your family as your dh sounds like he talks a lot of sense.
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