To have really lost respect for Jenni Murray(135 Posts)
NC specially for this.
DM article today (not linking to those cunts) in which she reckoned some things should not be shared even anonymously on sites such as Mumsnet. She also thinks we should be renamed "Mumsex" and questioned how pleased we would be if our male partners were talking about intimate details of our sex live and swearing on line, even anonymously.
I don't know about everyone else, but my DH is a big boy and might swear on the internet. I doubt he discusses our sex life, but if it was anonymous and he did to make someone laugh, or to help them, so what?
Jenni is shocked, even with all her knowledge of women's history at the swearing and the fact we share details of weirdest places we have had sex amongst other things. We also advice people to LTB at every little problem and some things should be kept in the bedroom.
Jenni, you silly cow, Mothers (they are women, you know) are as sexual as men. The chat on here and advice given has helped me have more orgasms in the last 4 moths than I have ever had in my life. That is a biggie to me. I know other Mothers (ie, women) have been helped in this way too. Should we be ashamed of liking sex, of wanting to find out more, of finding it funny, of wanting to compare notes anonymously?
LTB is not trotted out at every occasion, the pervasive tone of relationships is "take no shit". Is that so hard to understand? I thank my lucky stars every day for my DH, but I know if I had to put up with half of what is cited on some of the relationship threads, I would rather be (and would be) on my own.
So IABU is saying, STFU Jenni, and take your censorious attitude back to the 50's. I for one, won't STFU. Nice attempt to silence mothers again, and put them back in their place.
Did you have oodles of respect for her previously?
I totally see your point. But personally I don't put anything on here that I wouldn't be happy to discuss in RL or see it in the DM.
I am shocked at how much people reveal about themselves on here - its not always that anonymous.
You may not be "linking to those cunts" but surely you must have read it in the paper that "those cunts" wrote, should I be losing respect for you because you read the daily mail?
Can't disagree with any of that OP.
She is sometimes a dick, is JM.
Daily Mail link.
I do sort of agree with you. I'm certainly disappointed in her. She's actively sought out the sex threads - only a passing mention to any of the other topics that are discussed here all the time. And I'm baffled by the tone of disgust - isn't it good that there's somewhere people can talk frankly and anonymously about sex? It's all just so judgemental - and there's a prudishness there which just doesn't marry up with the Jenni Murray I listen to.
Given that I had no respect for her in the first place, I don't feel any the poorer for having read the article. What a knob.
I do like Jane Garvey though. She mentioned something on monday's WH and she was wrong, I tweeted correcting her and she actually conceded and read out my tweek.
Can't see Jenni doing that.
And I've hardly seen any sex threads in my short time here. I'm clearly missing out.
I'm not sure what to say about anyone who has an orgasm in a moth. I'm quite speechless.
always loved Jane Garvey and miss her on radio 5.. much better than 'up itself radio 4'anyday.
Jenny probably has moths having sex in that piece of curtain fabric she so stylishly wears!
Picnic that's given me the biggest laugh of my week.
I'm a couple of years younger than Jenni Murray.
I totally disagree with her.
If Mumsnet had been around 30 years ago I would not have wasted my life staying married to a selfish, unfaithful, drug addict, alcoholic arsehole of a husband.
Stuff went on in my marriage that I was and am still too ashamed to talk about to anyone, though I did talk to the Samaritans once.
I've just read Jenni Murray's article. She hasn't understood at all, the value of discussing, annonymously, problems of an abusive partner.
The value of being told by other women that you are being abused and his behaviour is not normal is actually amazing.
I think she's an old fashioned prude TBH. There are times when I find her quite old fashioned and insulting to women in general. I've also been shocked at her lack of sympathy and subtle victim blaming. She will also have the odd dig at the more interesting and stronger female guests.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Jenni Murray is an old school feminist. She thinks, I suspect, that the point of feminism is not to get women to behave as badly as men traditionally have, and that women using the word "cunt" as an insult is shoring up misogyny.
Lowers tone why is her hair so long at the back? I want to trim it <fingers itch>
" She will also have the odd dig at the more interesting and stronger female guests."
I have never, ever heard her do this.
There seems to be an attack on MN at the moment from the media. There's an article in the Independent all about MN and sex.
MN is a wonderful place where people talk about life.
Two things.JM's article, if you actually read it is not an attack on Mumsnet. And even if it was, it was published by the Daily Mail, and therefor probably bears little resemblance to what she actually said.....
This is the Independent article here
I think Jenni Murray is too po-faced and naive. I don't think she understands the real world.
She doesn't understand that posters like to have a laugh and exaggerate and occasionally make things up.
She probably also believes that posters who say "DM article today (not linking to those cunts)" are not regular readers of the Daily Mail and can't wait to read what is in it next.
Just because posters say LTB, doesn't mean that someone will. I know that Jenni is probably one of the progressive "metropolitan classes", but give ordinary people a little bit of credit not to be so foolish.
I imagine Jane Garvey saying, "Oh I knowwwwwwwwwww, they're really terrible" all the while hoping to fuck Jenni Murray doesn't realise Jane's on here 24/7 with the username AnyFucker.
However, I do like the respect with which she treats the Daily Mail reader and I cannot fault her on that
"Please allow me to apologise to Daily Mail readers in advance for what I’m about to describe"
She is showing herself to be very, very out of date with that article. I don't know how she can present a programme dedicated to women's lives without looking at the way women are communicating with each other online.
I feel an email to her coming upon me.
What's the matter with her? Were we not ladylike enough?
What a cunt.
She's not a cunt, she is just talking about things she knows nothing about.
I thought her generation invented sex?
This just seems to be yet another article dissing mumsnet as a den of iniquity.
Have the press got an axe to grind at the moment, or are they all sheep, following each other here....
As for Jenny Murray, I will give her the benefit of the doubt, since it is a daily mail article............. but if she really does believe this, she is not the open minded feminist she claims to be.
ps - where are all these threads?
That awf woman who does indeed wear a curtain and stare over the top of her glasses? God who gives a toss what she of any of the other fools at radio 4 think? They are only jealous because there is more entertainment and info on mn than in any worthy NBC docymentary on Albanian feminist folk songs
Like Hassled, I think you have to go looking for it to even find it, most of the time. I have been surprised, on my time on here, quite how little there is.
I have to turn off woman's hour when Jenni is on but like Jane Garvey. My mother is the reverse so perhaps a generational thing.
I was joking imperial.
I just hate her kind of twee attitude. Especially as she is writing inthe DM and apologising to DM readers for being so rude.
There are far far more offensive things to be found in the DM everyday.
I can't get over the fact she's writing for the DM. I would have thought it represented everything she hated. Apparently it doesn't, and we do!
anyfucker is Jane Garvey???? seriously??
I loathe radio 4 in any case. So smug. Give me Heart any day.
Oh Christ, here's another:
Some idiot at The Independent, this time.
Love the reference to "overeducated women." Ffs.
In the comments, someone with a woman's name says, "This website makes me ashamed to be a woman, I am surprised you haven't mentioned their anti men threads they are deplorable."
For the life of me I can't think of one thread that sets out to be anti men.
Reckon there is, and will continue to be, a backlash against "internet independents" from more "mainstream" media sources. Seen it happening with bloggers too.
For ages, the mainstream media has been used to the privilege of being the sole source for information.
"I'm a self appointed media personality/person, so I'm the only one with a voice/opinion allowed."
Tom Peck for lifestyle journalism? FFS love, most of us don't choose to emulate the lifestyle of chubby effeminate media luvvies.
So yeah Jenni Murray would have been "the self appointed authority on women" just cause she was "out there"?
And now you have Mumsnet, which is democratic to access and post, and anonymous? Yeah there'll be a whole load of shite, but "overall" its much closer to the overall "zeitgeist" of modern UK women than "one medja luvvie".
Totally apart from the more controversial stuff, I've spent a few weeks googling career stuff and Mumsnet had the BEST information - women who'd been in the industry I want to go into presenting well informed objective points of view, with no "agenda".
'I can't get over the fact she's writing for the DM. I would have thought it represented everything she hated.'
Why? Does she hate the truth?
Although, given her naivete about real people, maybe she would rather hide from the truth. She says
"And I think all of us women would be upset and angry if we felt our husbands or partners were swearing away online and dishing out intimate details of our activities to all and sundry — however anonymously."
Has she read about what went on in New Labour in Damian McBride's book?
Does she think that men don't brag and make things up and exaggerate about sex?
Does she live in the real world or in a BBC "metropolitan class" ivory tower?
She ends by saying
"As they would put it on Mumsnet — TMI! (That’s Too Much Information, by the way!)"
I think she is suffering from TMG (too much gullibility). She needs to get out more, away from the "metropolitan classes" and get down with da peeps.
Oh for god's sake, claig, you think the DM represents the truth?
Don't get Claig started on the DM
'Oh for god's sake, claig, you think the DM represents the truth?'
and nothing but!
ladies ladies what are you thinking.
I have finished darning my dear husbands socks and have a hot dinner waiting for him in the oven.
I am now going upstairs to put on my twin set and pearls and a dusting of powder and hope he won't want unnatural sex again with me tonight.
But where are all the threads on sex?? I seem to have missed them!
I think lurkinglorna has a point - the mainstream media hate internet forums because they can't be controlled.
Last time I read anything she read ( several years ago admittedly), it was all about how much weight she'd lost.
I'd steer her ( in no particular order) to Ckaig for political reeducation, to S&B for advice in losing the curtain and to the low carbers for diet advice. Much more use to her tha the sex stuff.
lurkinglorna has it in a nutshell I think.
It is absolutely pathetic, all these newspaper articles about Mumsnet. It simply reeks of bandwagon jumping.
I think I'm looking at the same threads as latara I never see any sex threads (must try harder)
Jenny Murray sounds ridiculously out of touch, she would have a fit if she heard my friends talking about sex after a
three glass of
But what annoys me most is the accompanying picture of a young woman in cutesy nightmare giggling at a laptop
"Reckon there is, and will continue to be, a backlash against "internet independents" from more "mainstream" media sources. Seen it happening with bloggers too."
I think there may be something in this. I think the real goal may be part of the socialists' and metropolitan elite's attempts to curb the anonymity and free speech of bloggers and independents about serious subjects such as politics etc, and taking umbrage at sex and filth is often the way to denigrate independent bloggers and forums and justify any curbs on free expression.
It's the old "society is going to the dogs" argument and the metropolitan elite have to do something about it for the good of the masses. They use sex as the justification, but the real aim is political.
Read Damian McBride's book to see some hypocrisy in action.
The hoo-ha against the Mail and the calls to "change its culture" by some of the metropolitan elite are a hint at what is at stake where free expression is concerned.
All these articles about Mumsnet are also to some extent about calls to "change the culture" of Mumsnet. But it is not sex that the metrolitan elite really care about, I think they may be after the independent bloggers and forums that criticise and challenge their worldview.
Particularly amusing as Jenni Murray is infamous for talking about being in a celibate relationship. So why is she reading about other people having sex?
There are only a handful of forums on here I read. If other people are discussing pig husbandry or Communist rhetoric, it doesn't bother me because I don't see it.
if I was you wouldn't see that's actually me in the pink.
if I was you wouldn't see that's actually me in the pink.
Oh the irony. On the screengrab of the front page that they've used, the Discussions of the Day are about waiting to give birth and baked potato fillings.
Going against the tide, just for a change (!)
I think maybe its a generational thing? I know strong women, good women who recoil at the idea of personal retellings online.
I never liked her in the first place, I used to love WH before she turned up and ruined it.
<but not as old as Jenni>
I don't tell much online either. I'd hate to inadvertently start a penisbeaker-type thing. But I don't judge others for it either.
And the article in the Indy that Imperial posted, IMO, is actually worse. As well as the 'over-educated mothers' statement someone else already mentioned, he's slating the MNetters over on the ttc threads for talking about, well, ttc...
A lot of stuff on Mumsnet is prurient and childish, I mean that's a fact, surely anyone with half a brain might have noticed? I think its fair of Jenny Murray to comment on this. No doubt this thread will encourage more prurient, childish (and unpleasant) comments, this time directed at Jenni Murray, just proving her point .
I'm surprised Katie Hopkins hasn't stepped into the Penisbeaker debate on This Morning.
But if you are wondering about intimate details of your sexlife (or anything else), whether it's normal, whether it can be changed, treated or just celebrated - it's often easier to ask anonymously online than go to your GP or ask a friend or whoever. And it is often far better than suffering in silence for years.
Mind you, I suspect someone like Penisbeaker husband would probably agree with her that some details are better not shared online.
It is quite amazing though, how all the current press articles are just focussing on the sex and swearing, and not on the massive range of other topics talked about in MN.
I agree with Meek, it is generational. In addition, I don't think JM deserves all this vitriol for expressing her own opinion.
I think she does deserve vitriol, though, for not doing her research properly and for not realising, despite her age, the value of an online community.
MN does so much good and has been talked about on Women's hour before. I wonder why Jenny decided to do this article. Doesn't she think it's healthy to talk about such stuff?
The worrying thing about all these articles about MN and sex is that it might attract people who get off talking about sex and masquerade as women with issues. It probably happens anyway but it could get worse.
This is what Tom Peck says in the Independent article
"In February 2013 its founders Justine Roberts and Carrie Longton, were assessed as the seventh most powerful women in the UK by BBC Woman’s Hour. Does this smattering of filth concern Roberts?
“We’ve always been pleased to provide a go-to destination for straight answers,” she says.
“Mumsnet’s aim is to allow parents to anonymously share knowledge and advice and occasionally that includes advice about sex. We think that’s all fine, and healthy and normal, as do our users.”
Personally I think that this defence of Mumsnet to attacks such as "smattering of filth" by some quarters is a bad defence. Because if it is about "advice" then the "smattering of filth" brigade may say that it is "bad advice". They may say like Jenni Murray said in the Daily Mail
"However, the flip and often downright damaging responses to these concerns posted on the site are deeply worrying.
Under that veil of anonymity, an obviously young and relatively inexperienced woman asks
The consensus seems to be that she should dump him — a common response from Mumsnetters to almost any marital problem. Not easy with two small children to look after, so I’m not sure how helpful such exchanges are
The argument should be one of free expression; it should be that people are free and capable to work out what advice is good and what is bad and that some things on the forum are about having a laugh and a discussion and are not about "seeking advice" and that the forum is not an extension of the metropolitan elite's nanny state looking after its naive and gullible children and controlling their free expression.
It seems that not only is our centuries old free press under attack by the "metropoiitan classes", but free forums and free blogs and free expression may be next.
I don't think it's generational.
I'm nearly the same age as JM.
I've been lurking on MN for over a year.
It's quite amazing watching a thread and eventually an OP realises that she is in an abusive relationship.
I cannot imagine anyone discussing in RL about a DH having a porn addiction or similiar, but here there is no shame or embarrassment and there are honest answers.
She has odd moral judgement. She berates MN for daring to discuss sex but accepts money from the Daily Fail.
Sorry, "not linking to those cunts" was probably a bit too strong. I don't think any kind of swearing or sex talk "proves her point" because I don't think she has a point to prove about us. She has just played into the hands of the mysoginistic media tide against MN. We should be coy about sex, we should moderate our language in a lady like way and we should STFU because we are just mothers.
As to that other absolute helmet in the independent; "over educated?" We can't win. If we posted in a less eloquent fashion, we'd be those uneducable dim wits.
@ "moths ". Can't get away with anything. It was supposed to be "months".
Perhaps Jenni should host a new "ladies hour" and leave Woman's hour to Jane Garvey.
I think that she is probably representative of a lot of people who would find some of the postings shocking. I have to say (and I have lived a life and am no prude) that I hate the use of the C-word. It is a personal thing, I regret that it seems to be becoming more common place and acceptable. There are postings on here that astound me with their openness and honesty. I understand the why and the value, but I can see that others would be shocked. There is sometimes some extreme advice offered that will have severe consequences for the OPs if they follow it. However, there are many, reasoned and learned posters here and I have no doubt that there are people who have been supported through problems and trauma that no one should have to deal with. But it is not for everyone and we should respect that. If anyone who disagrees becomes the subject of personal attacks, then it will be will descend into DM territory.
I love MN.
I wish i had moved in years ago
chains herself to tables
Maybe she should have lurked for longer than a week before passing an opinion in a national paper.
See, that's fair enough, BoardingBlues, you are not comfy with the c-word, but you haven't gone and published a load of shite in my favourite paper about how Mothers should behave.
How is this place anti-men, if you have a decent human being as a male partner? I must ask my DH if he feels threatened by our strident brand of feminism on here. Oh hang on, no he doesn't. He has had more leg over (with me, partner of 20 years) in four months than in the last 10 years,because of my reading someone else's thread about elusive orgasms and what vibrator would anyone recommend. TMI, but it comes from a heartfelt, genuine place. People helped the OP on those threads, but they also helped me and my DH (a man!) So we really mustn't allow the media to silence us.
I doubt she lurked for more than half an hour, paxtecum.
people who think its generational have never worked with old people.
I nursed in an elderly care unit and some of the stories told me by older women would make your hair curl!
the imminence of sudden death in the war definatly made for a live now fuck the future mindset.
the 60s were a joke really. ( so I was told as not that old)
A generational thing? Oh for fuck's sake, who do you think campaigned for the freedoms you take for granted today?
Well I do find the swearing annoying and unnecessary but not enough to stop reading, I sort of skim over it nowadays. I hear worse if forced to sit on a bus full of schoolkids, some of the language they come out with is shocking.
I think all this hype about the sex and filth is highly exaggerated, there are the occasional threads but it's hardly a 'hijack' and they are easy enough to avoid if you want to spend your life discussing nappies <yawn>.
I love Mumsnet, it frequently makes me laugh and where else accepts that people have diverse interests in their lives and may want to discuss different subjects? I can come on here and be having a conversation about SN education simultaneously with one about chicken keeping
or swinging naked from a chandelier if I so wish. There's so much more to it than a few hilarious references to kinky sex but I don't suppose JM took any notice as it didn't suit her purposes.
Yes Curlew, look at Betty Dodson; she's in her 80's and is my heroine.
Curlew - I meant the use of internet forums (fora?), not women having an interest in sex or views on a range of matters. I am quite well aware of the history of the emancipation of women and the feminist movement, I didn't think the point was so hard to understand, for fuck's sake!
LOL at the plaintive <But where are the sex threads?> posts
So, I clicked on the DM link (against my usual morals but I really like JM so had to see what the fuss was about). 1st thing I noticed, there is a photo of a young, very scantily clad woman in an article harping on about "smut"! That would be hilarious if the double standardwasn't so fucking depressing.
fairylea is in the paper!!!!!!!!!!!
I love the bit about having to go and ask a Young Person!
Not really interested in JM or the DM, but OP - can you pad out your comment re: 4 times as many orgasms? Just the 'how' and not the 'why' if you please.
<gets out notebook>
I just think it's hilarious that "Ann Summers & 50 Shades have a lot to answer for". Really!
What a shame she didn't move past the media hype she would have received lots of support and advice about her health issues. I did have to laugh at the opening gambit though on women's hour we use words like breast and even testicle even though we know men sometimes listen
I am sooo tempted to go on the next phone on WH under false pretences and then when on air, tell her what I really think.
I don't like all the sweariness, actually, because it's making me more sweary, and it's going to come out at work at some point in a situation where it would not be good, I suspect. I know this is my problem and mine alone, but if you could all type with more respectable language more often... nah, sod it. If someone could just do my actual job, and I can be paid to chat on here instead, that's the best solution.
I find it really depressing that all the feminists throughout history appear to have struggled, fought and died to gain women the freedom to use misogynist swear words..........
That's such a small part of it though Curlew. Feminists throughout history didn't fight so that I could use the word "cunt", it is so much bigger than than and we are so much bigger than the small word that is "cunt". They fought for our right to vote, for our contraceptive choices, they fought towards equal pay and against the patriarchy. We stand on their shoulders.
Is it a misogynistic word? Why? I think it is quite a sexy word in the right context and I am not talking about porn.
I think that any article that has "Filth or depravity", in it (as every article linked to does), when all this site does is help women to have better sex and relationships, should be ignored and those writing it shouldn't be defended, just because once upon a time they may have said something relevant.
Women and children (seeming as it is females that are being told to not share) wouldn't have suffered to the extent they did from DV/EA etc as they have done, if the advice given on MN would of been freely available years ago.
We wouldn't have had to live with the Victim Blaming that happened even in Courts, but especially in the media.
I lost any respect I had for JM when she spouted the crap about her weight battle.
Her article is completely laughable, I would love to know which school of feminist thought she ascribes to, or the literature that influenced her (as she has claimed in the past).
Feminist books that I read quite early, in the 70's, that had been my Mother's and Sister's, urged that women talk openly about being female.
This meant all aspects, Fertility, their sex lives, the correct names for body parts and most of all, that Periods were not to be hidden away, because that assumes that the default is Male and our experiences are secondary and not as important.
She has become another older Woman contributer to the DM agenda (and others), who should know better, it is sad to see so many chat bollocks (literally at times) to heap a bit of attention.
Should of been "grab a bit of attention" bloody auto correct.
The screenshot of this site on the DM site is interesting all the discussions of they day are nothing to do with sex.
That article was a load of tripe.
I agree about the war my Mum was a teen in the war and used to escape out of her bedroom at night. I have seen the photos of the blokes she dated. I'm pleased to say she didn't discriminate and dated the army, navy and airforce.
The silly, smug mare should look at the threads that support people with drink problems, mental illness etc.
There was a similar article in the telegraph this week.
I read most of the article - if I'm going to judge someone, I need to read what they've written. She didn't suggest we be renamed Mumsex - just that other commentators had said this and the rest of the article just felt like a regurgitation of other recent media items about MN.
But when she started talking about penis beaker and said "No one said yuk! Or expressed any degree of shock or surprise, even though what seemed to have been revealed was the kind of information you would simply never even discuss with your best and most trusted friend, let alone a vast group of complete strangers." I realised that she was talking out of her arse as the thread full of people expressing surprise and shock.
I don't believe that she has even bothered to log on to MN before writing the article and for that reason alone I am very, very disappointed in her.
I'm quite strait laced, but I can't say the chat about sex bothers me in the slightest. Neither does the swearing. Women are human after all. The threads about sex are few and far between tbh.
I wonder what she'd make of the poo chats we have
MN is about a lot more than sex chat. It's a tiny part of the site - however that sort of prurient nonsense is what gets people reading.
I've been here about ten years on and off and have somehow managed to avoid threads about sex. It's not hard.
When I refer to prurient nonsense, I mean the shock horror mums talk about rude things type article, not MN.
There is an interesting article - can't remember whether it was the Indie or the Grauniad - that points out the fact that it shouldn't be so shocking that mums have sex as they had to do it at least once and it's all a big Madonna / whore thing going on.
This is the article in the Guardian.
Anyone who disagrees with LTB when the woman is being raped, beaten up, treated like a second class citizen, controlled through manipulation etc can quite frankly fuck off and I will call them a cunt all the live long day.
People who write about this site and manage to conveniantly miss all the threads which help people on a daily basis, support the berearved, make people laugh, etc etc can fuck off because they are either thick as shit, or have an agenda in which the strong woman does not figure.
Either way, once again they can all fuck off.
Jenni Murray needs to remember that not many years ago Cancer was not talked about in public and commonly hid behind euphemisms in private. However she like many women has talked openly of her own Cancer. There are still people (my Grandmother for one) who are a bit about that.
I am a bit about the glut of celebrity autobiographies that have a congealing effect upon the bookshelves including yours Jenni. Why would you want to spill your guts about your life- Silly me, you were paid to weren't you?
I myself rarely talk about my own sex life because I am quite private and my DH would not like it. One has to assume that the many adult women on here have similarly sought the opinion of their partners and know that they are fine about it.
Times change Jenni, my love.
What a weird article. Am surprised at JM.
I was once interviewed on Woman's Hour (part of my job). Was very awkward as the other guest was clearly an old friend of Jenni's so I couldn't get a word in edgewise, they were too busy nattering.
I think both her and the male journalist who wrote the Telegraph article need to get on with digging up some actual news in what is obviously a slow news week. At best they come across as a pair of busty busy bodies who have got nothing better to do than berate women for not staying where they belong - which is obviously keeping their opinions to themselves and wearing the carpet down between the kitchen and the bedroom. Utterly ridiculous.
Jenni Murray belongs to the old school that believes only certain types of people are allowed a platform for their opinions. If you've written a book or hold some kind of public office you are allowed to spout off publicly about whatever shit you like. Oh and of course broadcasters and other media types are totally OK to share their tedious thoughts with the rest of us.
But now, OMG! ordinary people are talking amongst themselves! Including women! Without any broadcasters or media experts on hand to tell them what they are allowed to think!
Whatever next - democracy?
zoob i think you have hit the nail on the head. MN is empowering to many people (including our male MN's) and we can entertain ourselves for hours
i spend too long on here so proving we do not need radio / TV for our entertainment, debate, ideas etc.
She sounds miserable and joyless.
I see it like this: mothers who are open about sex will pass said openness and maturity down to their children who in turn will have the tools to make sensible choices relating to their own bodies.
How is that a bad thing?
When you think of some of the really, really offensive shit you can find on the internet I am actually amazed at the amount of time and effort certain "journalists" have spent slagging off a site where grown women sometimes discuss sex.
Yeah it's funny how they don't trawl all those men's sites and discover -shock horror! -contrary to what they've believed up to now, lots of men don't believe women are equal human beings, they are actually old-school misogynist.
Not a lot on that is there?
I think that MN shocks people's perception of what it is. I remember all the fuss about Gordon Brown and biscuits and it came up on 'Have I Got News For You' and Ian Hyslop dismissed it as 'a site for young mothers'. I'm sure that a lot of people see it as 20something year olds discussing potty training and which pram to buy whereas it is all ages, some men, some without children, all backgrounds and covers the whole of life. I can't see why it should leave out sex. Maybe it comes a shock to Jenni Murray that some of us are her age and not remotely interested in nappy brands!
Perhaps someone should point the next journo in the direction of the sex threads on Gransnet - I think they might find that really hard to comprehend.
You gotta love Barbara Ellen though. This is something I will link to www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/27/talking-sex-on-mumsnet-not-shocking. Nice antidote to all the shite.
Kiss her ass Jenni Murray.
Impressed with Barbara Ellen, thanks for the link Mumsex.
Thanks, looking up thread, I think original credit has to go to Kim147 for linking first. I have my wine goggles on.
YY, Mignonette, my partner is more than fine about my anonymous discussions and disclosures. They have pleased him (after me, of course ) no end.
I've always loved Barbara Ellen
I find it really depressing that all the feminists throughout history appear to have struggled, fought and died to gain women the freedom to use misogynist swear words..........
I agree with Curlew. It also makes me swear more which is a real downside of MN. I find myself saying FFS in front of my son these days, so though I think a bit of Anglo-Saxon honesty is useful at times, overall it does have a negative drip-drip effect actually.
And sometimes there is a lot of vulgarity on MN that's not half as funny as it think it is.
Re. Jenny Murray, I think she's entitled to her view and see nothing wrong with her giving her honest opinion as a journalist.
I find it really depressing that all the feminists throughout history appear to have struggled, fought and died to gain women the freedom to use misogynist swear words.
Is that really all you believe those feminists before us have achieved?
"I find it really depressing that all the feminists throughout history appear to have struggled, fought and died to gain women the freedom to use misogynist swear words.
Is that really all you believe those feminists before us have achieved?"
You'd think so if you went by Mumsnet sometimes.......
But MN isn't real life. I don't think "cunt" is used by women (or men) nearly as much in RL as it is on here.
It's still a misogynist swear word, wherever it's being used!
Yes. And? So are lots of words, like "bitch" and "slut". It's not all "feminists throughout history ... have struggled, fought and died" for so I don't really understand what you're trying to say.
Surely the freedom to say it (and we should have the freedom to) is a byproduct of everything else that was achieved?
It adds to the notion of middle class WH, and very "British" at that. Sooo button up, AND really really unfair of her. And the fact she's taking the Daily Mail shilling at all. So many 'intersections'....so yes, less respect and an urge to demand of her "What were you thinking?"
Though I agree there is far too much casual swearing and foul language here, which reflects badly on the site and the posters who type them, and I wish they would all just stop it.
I thought it was obviously a result of 'Jenni, please write an article slating Mumsnet'. She had to scrabble round to find the mucky bits - and so what if she did, no-one is forced to read them!
It does seem pretty hypocritical though when 'being open about stuff' is what she has always encouraged.
Curlew cunt used to be used as a purely descriptive word. In medieval medical books . It had changed for misogynistic reasons to be a word for insult. I don't see why a word referring to my genitalia hould be so much 'worse' that one referring to male genitalia. What's the worst word you can think of for a penis? Well cunt should have no more shock value than that.But it will if we let it so I think it's time to reclaim it. Gently and slowly. And MN is a start.
I use the C word several times a day in RL but never on here. We should consider the feelings of all those poor journos assigned the MN beat... <waves>
Are there sex threads on gransnet? Last time I looked, admittedly 6 months ago, it was mainly about exercise and grans not being allowed to see their grandchildren. Off to check it out.
I never heard of her until two days ago.
she lost me at hello
ooh. It looks like it has had a makeover since I last looked. And there appears to be far more posters now. It was a bit like home from home, but their topics seem better organised than on here.
Didnt see much sex there today, but it does come up in conversation there. Obviously really, Jenni Murray.
I think this thread has already been a teeny-tiny opposing force to all the crap, trying to get us to shut in up the media. As a result of my baring my soul/making a show of myself on here, I've already had two messages from women asking about sex and orgasms. I think its really sad to try to stop people talking about sex, whether its to help another person out or to make someone laugh. How can that be harmful? If people don't want to see sex chat, no-one is forcing them, by pinning their eyelids open and putting them in front of MN.
Dang, I missed Womans Hour. I could have phoned in and told her off on air.
Her article was shabby. If she had spent longer than 2 minutes on here she could have written about how hugely supportive people are and the massive help and advice people receive when they are going through terrible things happening in their lives.
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