To be pissed off DH's work asking for my Mat B1?

(78 Posts)
QueenArseClangers Fri 25-Oct-13 14:10:38

DH is sorting out his paternity leave for this Jan when our baby arrives. His work have asked for MY mat b1 form. In the government/hmrc websites it states that this is not required and only filling in a self-certification form is needed.
What pisses me off is a) the mat b1 form is my personal document b) his work won't have data protection to deal with said document in confidence and c) the info is out there for employers to know that they don't need MY form.
Guess it's also just the principle of the the thing too. Got me in a right hormonal pregnant nark, aibu?

WallyBantersJunkBox Fri 25-Oct-13 14:13:42

Copy and paste the guidelines into an email to the HR department and a note just to say dh is confused as the law states this isn't required.

What are you afraid of if they do see the document?

bittapitta Fri 25-Oct-13 14:18:11

Why are you concerned about confidentiality? You need to show it to your employer around 20 weeks too. I think YABU, it's just paperwork.

BlackbeltinBS Fri 25-Oct-13 14:20:02

First part of what WallyBanter says. He should email them quoting the Govt guidance so he doesn't believe it necessary and obviously he's happy to self-certify as the law requires.

Data protection is one of those areas where it's easy to think "does it really matter" but actually, yes, it does.

QueenArseClangers Fri 25-Oct-13 14:22:18

Ha ha! Not worried about anything on the document (name/address/edd) it's just that dh's work can be right arses that think they can make the rules up as they go along eg. ignoring health and safety/disabilaty guidelines and this seems to be another example, albeit small,of them doing that.
Just rang DH and he's going to show them the guidelines. Just cheesed off at the poo heads.

BigOrangePumpkin Fri 25-Oct-13 14:23:30

My workplace ask expectant fathers for theirs.

Idespair Fri 25-Oct-13 14:25:10

I had to get mine for dh's job as well. Not worth getting upset about IMO.

QueenArseClangers Fri 25-Oct-13 14:25:40

It's different showing it to my employer who already has my confidential info and I have a legal obligation to do so but not my husband's as they've sod all right to access a personal document.

YDdraigGoch Fri 25-Oct-13 14:27:23

It's not a personal document. It's proof that you're pregnant. Any man could ask for paternity leave if he didn't have to prove his partner was pregnant. I don't see what the issue is.

the point is there is no need for them to have the document as it is not required for them to see it. They dont need proof of the pregnancy or birth to qualify for ordinary paternity pay.

from here:

For Ordinary Paternity Leave and Pay you don’t need proof of the pregnancy or birth - the rules are different if you adopt.

BigOrangePumpkin Fri 25-Oct-13 14:33:18

Correct me if I'm wrong but won't he have to fill in an SC3 form which has the same info on it anyway?

they have a form to fill in (SC3 or the employers own form) and that is all the employer needs to see - they have no requirement to see the MATB1

LittlePeaPod Fri 25-Oct-13 14:33:33

It all depends on each companies policy. Guidelines are exactly what they say they are "guidelines". I don't understand what the big deal is with providing a copy of your MatB form. The reason we get it is to give to employers.

My company asks all fathers to provide a copy of the MatB and I have yet heard anyone complain about it. IMHO, I think you are been extremely unreasonable and difficult. Why kick off about something so unnecessary?

why should she have to show it if the government says there is no need for them to see it.? It isnt a guideline, its the law and I dont see how company policy can override that. She has it for her own employer, not anyones elses.

littleblackno Fri 25-Oct-13 14:36:39

Someone I know worked with a man who took pat leave - they bought him a pressie for the baby etc - there was no baby (not even sure he had a girlfriend). I know what the law says but i don't think it's entirely unreasonable for the mans employers to want some proof. In fact I'm surprised that it isn't the case that they don't need to see your form.

WooWooOwl Fri 25-Oct-13 14:36:56

I don't see the problem, and I find it a bit odd that anyone would have a problem with it.

It's just proof that you're pregnant, that's all. If you don't want to show them the form, you don't have to. Just prepare yourself to be alone for the birth and the first couple of weeks of your baby's life.

thats why they have to sign a declaration and then there can be penalties if they have taken leave fraudulently. Why they would want to drop to SPP is beyond me though!

KirjavaTheCorpse Fri 25-Oct-13 14:38:46

I'm a sahm but got one, fully expecting DP to have to give it to his work. They didn't bother asking for it in the end but it never occured to me to be pissed off about it.

When I was working and pregnant last time, however, and my HR department lost it four fucking times, I was very pissed off indeed.

LittlePeaPod Fri 25-Oct-13 14:39:22

I didn't say company policy over rides it. I said she is been difficult and unreasonable without any good reason. Very odd and unprofessional behaviour IMHO. confused What is the big deal? Mountain out of a mole hill!

but they dont need to see the MATB1 as her dh will sign a declaration to say he is taking paternity leave and pay and that is all they need to see. He can still get leave/pay without them seeing the MATB1 as the law states

if she doesnt have to then why should she though. Maybe she doesnt trust them not to lose it

BigOrangePumpkin Fri 25-Oct-13 14:44:41

She wouldn't send them the original because that needs to go to her employers, she would just send a copy. And all the info is it the expected week of child birth, which I would assume most people will know?! Hardly breaking DPA is it?

SHRIIIEEEKFuckingBearBlood Fri 25-Oct-13 14:47:07

"nt b) his work won't have data protection to deal with said document in confidence"

Not sure what you mean. Presumably they deal with their own hr records and so have all the data protrction knowledge they need to handle your matb1

QueenArseClangers Fri 25-Oct-13 14:47:21

What about SAHMs who don't need/get given one? The rules are blatantly out there but it seems that some employers just find it easier to ignore them and this, in my pregnant brain, is just the tip of the iceberg.
If DH worked for some friendly small business who followed the 'rules' and asked for the form out of conveinience perhaps I wouldn't mind but this is a multinational newspaper group that should know better.

LittlePeaPod Fri 25-Oct-13 14:48:14

ilovepower not sure if that was in response to me but my question was directed at the op And I dont believe you are the Op.

Sending a copy isn't that big a deal. I find this type of irrational, difficult and unreasonable behaviour a bit odd. It reminds me of teenage strops. If it ws something really important then maybe, but this seriously. Don't you have anything better to stress about Op? confused

SHRIIIEEEKFuckingBearBlood Fri 25-Oct-13 14:48:28

Do they not? Why not, it comes from the mw, presumably they can ask.

KirjavaTheCorpse Fri 25-Oct-13 14:49:17

Well they do get given one. Like I did, a few months ago, for partners' paternity leave because some companies like to see it...

Is it really a big deal?

BigOrangePumpkin Fri 25-Oct-13 14:51:24

All you need to do OP is get DH to say to them 'I'm not sure if you're aware but you don't actually need to see the MAT B1 form' and if they contest ask them to check the HRMC website. Maybe they just like to see it? Just because the website says that they don't need to see if doesn't mean they can't ask, it just means they can't insist.

LittlePeaPod Fri 25-Oct-13 14:53:23

SAHM can get them for their partners. Your DH works for a coporate national newspaper from what you say. Therefore I find your comment about their confidentially procedures a bit naive. clearly this is something that they ask all fathers so his not been targeted.

Again you are been really unreasonable and difficult for no real reason.

Bue Fri 25-Oct-13 14:54:18

We issue them to all women because we know that the partner's work often want to see it, even if that isn't the guideline. However we also tell women NOT to give the original to their partner's work, just a copy - workplaces are always losing MatB1s!

QueenArseClangers Fri 25-Oct-13 15:03:02

Sorted out SC3 form now. It may be a big company but it has a tin pot local attitude/systems.
Thanks for all the replies mnetters, even if I don't agree with them I really appreciate you taking the time and effort to reply.

DrivingToDistraction Fri 25-Oct-13 15:04:33

My DH's work tried to insist they have the original of mine - er, I haven't even got it, my employers sent it to central HR.

I have only had a matb1 with my first child.
1 was working at the time. We now have 4 children, I never received another one.

UserError Fri 25-Oct-13 15:20:13

QueenArseClangers, I'm with you. It infuriated me when DP's company did the same and refused to accept it wasn't a legal requirement when he showed them the HMRC/Gov guidelines. Considering I worked for HMRC at the time, it infuriated me even more. I think it says volumes about how efficient and legally compliant HR departments are, if they're insisting on seeing something they have no legal right to see! Going by how DP was subsequently treated when he needed parental leave when I was seriously ill, it was definitely a warning flag.

Oooo, you've got me all wound up all over again and DS is three now!

QueenArseClangers Fri 25-Oct-13 15:40:47

Ha ha UserError glad it's just not me finding it infuriating! Agree entirely with ignorance of a seemingly unimportant employment rule sometimes being indicative of more blatant blase attitude towards good practice.

StephenKatz Fri 25-Oct-13 15:46:59

I was a SAHM in my second pregnancy. I was given a MatB1, and DH's work (massive hotel chain) asked to see it so I gave them it confused Didn't occur to me not to, or that they didn't need it to be honest!

Anyway, glad it seems to be sorted OP!

emsyj Fri 25-Oct-13 15:49:37

YANBU, I can't stand it when people don't follow the rules - the law says they don't need to see it, so they don't need to see it.

You can be as 'difficult' hmm as you like, they have no right to ask for it and you have every right to say 'no'.

Pinupgirl Fri 25-Oct-13 15:51:29

I am with you op and don't know why you are getting such a pasting-well I do because this is aibu and attracts the keyboard warriorshmm

Yanbu-they have no legal right to ask for this. I am sahm and have never been given a matb1. Dh asked for one in my last pregnancy as his work had asked about it and I directed him and them to the guidelines from hmrc.

BigOrangePumpkin Fri 25-Oct-13 15:54:44

I think it's more that there's really no need to be quite this upset about it.

JoinYourPlayfuckers Fri 25-Oct-13 15:57:44

I wouldn't have given it to them either.

That's YOUR personal information, it is about YOU.

You have no contract with your husband's employer, and they have no right to ask you to prove to them that you are pregnant.

ColderThanAWitchsTitty Fri 25-Oct-13 18:10:11

How can the Op be even a bit unreasonable about not wanting to provide paperwork that she doesn't have to provide? confused

This idea that you should just put up with employers making up rules and regs is why employers get to take the piss. GRRRR angry

Of course yanbu op.

ColderThanAWitchsTitty Fri 25-Oct-13 18:10:46

What if Op had broken up with her partner and didn't want to give him any of her paperwork?

Shellywelly1973 Fri 25-Oct-13 18:19:51

I had the same with dp's firm. They insisted they needed the Mat B1 form even though he'd filled in the SC3...

It didn't really bother me but it's annoying that large companies seem to ignorant!

RevoltingPeasant Fri 25-Oct-13 20:06:15

Colder that is actually a v interesting point! Would he then have a right to paternity leave? What if she banned him from the birth?

I'd never considered that... What does happen when a man breaks up with his partner before the birth, does he get pat leave?

SHRIIIEEEKFuckingBearBlood Fri 25-Oct-13 20:09:10

Colder then she wold have a point
A man is entitled to paternity leave if someone is having his child and he intends to act as a father if I undedstand correctly

DawnOfTheDee Fri 25-Oct-13 20:14:38

YANBU.

To me the OP isn't being difficult....she's been asked for something and has said 'no'. She's perfectly entitled to do this. And I agree how big companies can be very ignorant on issues like this. The company I work for doesn't seem to know very much at all about the rights of women on maternity leave. If other kind people hadn't tipped me off I'd have been screwed. Big time.

Actually, I think the OP Is not BU.

The guidelines and law says the company does not need to see the MATB1, so they don't need it, just the other form.

The OP does not work for that company so they have sod all right to expect her to hand over her own paperwork.

And it isn't just about this form. Companies with this sort of attitude can often be asking for other personal stuff from partners/spouses which they have no right to see.

pianodoodle Fri 25-Oct-13 20:25:47

I wouldn't have given it to them either.

That's YOUR personal information, it is about YOU.

You have no contract with your husband's employer, and they have no right to ask you to prove to them that you are pregnant

Yes this is exactly how I feel. That's probably part of the reason why they aren't legally entitled to see it as well.

HabitualHobbyist Fri 25-Oct-13 20:34:37

Sorry if I've missed this, but what is your DH's company's paternity pay? Do they just pay Statutory Paternity Pay, or do they top this up? If they top it up, I think they are being reasonable in requesting firm evidence of the pregnancy, afterall, it's a benefit in addition to the statutory minimum.

QueenArseClangers Fri 25-Oct-13 21:17:23

Just bog standard statutory paternity pay. I could slightly understand them wanting it if they were offering some fancy dan package but it's about £138 a week!

Rainbowshine Fri 25-Oct-13 21:28:31

We ask for partners MatB1 forms as our auditors want to see them - to ensure we have checking procedures to avoid fraudulent claims. I know this sounds OTT but this is fairly common in larger corporates especially as they have to comply with US accounting standards.

bearleftmonkeyright Fri 25-Oct-13 21:36:50

Rainbowshine, but the company still has no right to it. I do feel that this should be upheld. It puts the woman in an impossible situation, where she has liability to prove someone else is entitled to a.benefit from an organization she does not work for. That's ludicrous. There have been threads on here before about this situation, where the mother does not want the father in her life, but the father is demanding her matb1. It's such an important document. I don't think mothers should give it up.

Rainbowshine Fri 25-Oct-13 21:54:20

I know bearleft - I never said it was right, but was trying to add some context why they may have asked. I have experienced where this was a problem the father went with mother to their GP and obtained a letter to verify his situation without referring to mother's information. HTH OP.

QueenArseClangers Sat 26-Oct-13 19:49:36

Just seen DH's work maternity/paternity handbook and it's got a form they say he 'must' complete asking for MY N.I number/employer/date of birth as well as my Mat B1. What the fuck!

JoinYourPlayfuckers Sat 26-Oct-13 19:53:03

Fuckers.

Just make sure he doesn't provide them with those details about you.

QueenArseClangers Sat 26-Oct-13 20:03:00

...upon closer inspection the form in the handbook is a request for additional paternity leave so I guess that's different (although the additional bit was written in teeny tiny writing).

QueenArseClangers Sat 26-Oct-13 20:04:48

But it still demands my mat b!

They can demand all they like. If you refuse to provide it, there is nothing they can do as YOU are not under contract with them, and are therefore not obliged to give them YOUR information.

PansOnFire Sat 26-Oct-13 20:35:04

YABU, it's a form which takes no effort to get. My midwife did us two, one for me and one for DH's employer. After she gave us the one for DH I just assumed that the father's employers needed one too.

It's really not worth the stress, give them the form and move on. At least they have no excuses if they mess up his paternity pay.

Pans see earlier info, according to HRMC, there is no obligation to provide the form, just to complete a separate form that is a declaration. This way the personal information of the mother, in this case the OP, is protected.

TippiShagpile Sat 26-Oct-13 20:38:29

Will he get paternity leave if he doesn't provide them with a copy?

JoinYourPlayfuckers Sat 26-Oct-13 20:39:35

Yes, he will still get paternity leave because HE is entitled to it.

They are not entitled to ask his wife to provide them with anything, since they have no relationship with HER.

TippiShagpile Sat 26-Oct-13 20:40:32

If he'll get it whether you provide it or not then don't provide it if you don't want to.

FortyDoorsToNowhere Sat 26-Oct-13 20:43:30

My DH works perks is a good paternity and maternity package, but to get this you need to submit the matB1 form.

Mymumsfurcoat Sat 26-Oct-13 20:57:33

Don't see the problem.

Wingdingdong Sat 26-Oct-13 21:03:34

What happens if he tells them that you've already submitted it to your employer so don't have it?

ColderThanAWitchsTitty Sat 26-Oct-13 21:04:13

You have to work for a company a little while before you are even eligible for paternity right? So how often are men making up babies to get 2 weeks off barely paid? And then hiding the fact that they haven't got kids.Surely you would just pull a sicky and self certify? And really the most they could pull the stunt off is once a year and if you have a baby inventing loon working for you more than one year... You really have bigger fish to fry than 130£ of wasted statutory paternity pay.

Wingdingdong Sat 26-Oct-13 21:06:08

(My DH had to complete a separate declaration form - I have some vague memory of having to sign it to confirm that the dates were correct, but certainly didn't have to provide a MAT B1 - and yes, I had submitted mine to my employer by the time DH got round to applying for paternity leave, but he didn't need to do so by 26w or whatever it was).

JoinYourPlayfuckers Sat 26-Oct-13 21:07:02

But really, it's not enough to ask a man to prove some woman he knows well enough to give him her Mat1B is pregnant.

To be sure, they'd need to be asking for in utero paternity tests.

MrsMargoLeadbetter Sat 26-Oct-13 21:18:52

Sounds like the law is clear, OP doesn't need to share.

But I did wonder about shared mat leave which is now in place (I believe?).Is the company's request linked to the fact her DH could be informing them he'll be taking months off in the future?

AnyFuckerGotBunnywhacked Wed 30-Oct-13 10:01:27

Dp keeps getting narky with me as I haven't asked my mw for my matb1 and apparently he thinks he won't get his paternity pay if he doesn't show them mine.
Now it is a bit more awkward for me to get mine as am not due to see mw again till the 13th and i don't want to make a trip out specially. As has been said legally they don't need to see it so why are they even asking for it I don't understand.
As has been said above it has no information on it other than name address edd etc why is it deemed necessary.

YABU and touchy. Many workplaces will actually have policies in place stating they need the MATB1 as evidence of pregnancy despite the law, it helps in ensuring you don't get any 'fakers' - you would be suprised at how many men have tried it on to get extra leave over the years!

It is also used in cases where a father would like to take additional paternity leave, so again, YABU.

Summerblaze Wed 30-Oct-13 10:20:13

I had a mat b1 with dc1 and dc3 as I was working but I did not even ask for one with dc2 as I was a SAHM. DP's work have never asked for mine.

And don't the company save money too as they don't actually pay for the paternity leave and don't pay wages for that week.

YANBU although I would probably show mine as I wouldn't be all that bothered.

Chattymummyhere Wed 30-Oct-13 10:40:09

I wouldn't give it to them both jobs my dh has had while I have been pregnant never asked, one would of even paid him his normal wage.

These are smaller companies though and the bosses knew me last pregnancy he was working for our friends dad.

JustAnotherFucker Wed 30-Oct-13 10:42:11

They don't have a right to ask for it but they do legally have to have a completed SC3/4/5 or employers own equivalent form in order to legally pay the SPP.

I imagine they consider the MatB1 as 'their own version'

But I wouldn't be getting upset at data protection etc as matB1 has less personal info than the required SC forms anyway.

Summerblaze only 92% of SPP in larger organisations is reclaimable and these same organisations will also have audit procedures so proof may be required for that reason alone.

Smaller employers can claim 103% of the cost but the burden of proof is on the employer in the case of a payroll enquiry.

thebody Wed 30-Oct-13 10:46:50

what's the big deal though? it's just a form stating you are pregnant. not really confidential. I would just send a copy and forget it.

AnitaManeater Wed 30-Oct-13 10:50:28

I refused to give DPs work a copy of my MATB1. Partly because I I knew they had no right to see it (I work in a related job) and two, because I had already given the original to my HR dept.

I fired off an email to DPs HR with links to the relevant legislation and they have now changed their policy on the evidence required smile

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