To expect teacher to ask DD 6 a few more questions about her illness when she is crying with pain?(59 Posts)
Twice now the school has surprised me with this.
1) Sunday DD seems to be ill, dreadful headache, glassy eyes but no other symptoms.
Monday morning she seems totally fine, we send her to school she is v happy to go.
I email and call the school to tell them, she seemed to be v ill the day before but fine today however, she is shy and will probably not feel OK to approach a teacher yet to say she is ill. Can someone just ask her if she OK at some point to make sure, and if not I can pick her up.
Pick up DD she looks horrendous, pale, red round eyes, tired, weeping, goes straight to bed when gets home and says no one asked her!
Call school, only get office staff who said she did pass on the message and someone told her to put her coat on . Didn't take it further as thought maybe they did ask her but that she did not relate that to me.
DD sick sunday, off school Monday, mostly OK Monday back to school Tuesday, fine Tuesday and Tuesday night and Wed am.
Collect her Wednesday am and she is in another dreadful state, the lady has her arms round her, and as soon as she gets in the car she vomits everywhere, wailing with headache etc.
Ask her did she not tell the teacher and she said she did tell the teacher and the teacher said " don't cry".
That was it.
I do not know how to proceed with this, what is general policy?
I would expect a teacher or someone to notice she was ill as she is crying, pale, looks ill - it was obvious today, and ask her a few more questions and perhaps phone me to come and get her?
I took her to docs after and the doc was carrying her for me, I have never seen him be so nice, he was saying, you poor thing you don't look well! It was obvious she wasn't well and the teacher had spoken to her.
What do I say? Is this normal? Its just we get lots of strong messages to make sure the children go in...
I think you need it keep her at home longer when she's been so unwell.
You shouldn't have sent her if she'd been very ill the night before. You only have a sick child's say so that nobody asked - speak to the teacher if you like but you didn't seem to know how poorly she was so not sure about anyone else knowing.
What did the doctor say? Do you know what is wrong with her? Is she feeling any better now? I hope you are both ok.
As for the school, yes they should have rung you. Keep her home until you know that she is 100% better and next time keep her home if you suspect that she is ill and if they say anything point them to this occasion and say that you won;t risk it happening again.
1st time though Thank, there was no temperature, no D & V, she perked up Sunday PM and seemed fine Monday morning, there just didn't seem to be any signs of illness to keep her off for.
She was ill sunday, kept her off monday, fine tuesday, ill again today....
she started to feel un well at school....
He said its not pneumonia !!!!!
He said there is gastro intertitus going round at the moment and its probably that. She looks weak but has managed to keep down some diorlite.
I will def keep her off tomorrow.
I totally understand the usual, oh its a big class the teacher isnt a nurse, but it worries me that the teacher spoke to her, and she looked so ill, and she was left. There is also an after school club she was sent too, which she neednt have gone too.
What if it was something nasty.....she is always being sent home with head injury notes and things. It just seems a bit lax to me.
How do I approach this though? Say she was un well yesterday and vomited all over the car? Didn't anyone notice!?
Not sure what to say...I want them to know she was very poorely.
But suppose she didn't look like that most of the day and just suddenly got worse at home time?
Also re the first occasion, ridiculous to be expecting a teacher to be constantly asking a child if they are OK. If they are that bad, then keep them home.
Do you think Parakeet....
I have not had this border line not knowing before re the 1st time. They seem to want you to send them in.
I only asked that a teacher or TA could ask her if she was ok to make sure she knows that she can also tell them if she is ill. I was only expecting them to ask her once.
I do not know how schools deal with illness.
Yes she may have felt ill then, just before home time, the teacher definalty spoke to her, I am just wondering why they did not call me to spare her this extra club she went too.
If she vomitted today then It's normally a 48 hour exclusion policy, so she won't be back until next week. Hopefully she'll be fully recovered by then.
I don't get it, you say you picked her up Weds am? Surely someone did phone you then, so they did notice?
Often a child, even if feeling unwell in school, will not cry until they see the parent arrive to collect them.
I've often had children burst into years as they see mum arrive through the window so I send out a sobbing mess who has appeared fine to me all day'
sorry typo not wed am wed after school.
True Annie, but the teacher at some point today most definalty saw her cry and said to her " don't cry".
Whether that was before home time or towards the end of the day I do not know.
However she then went on for another hour ( assuming they saw her ill before home time) to this after school thing.The lady from that ushered her to me, saying she had been crying and upset and desperate to get home.
I just feel stupid and helpless.
You get kids who complain of being ill and then are running around squealing with their friends five minutes later, so I can understand an initial reaction of "oh dear. Sit down quietly for a few minutes".
But it sounds like the child was quite obviously I'll and not herself so I wouldn't have dismissed her with the "my tummy hurts" brigade really. But if she is shy and new them the teacher may not know her well enough yet to have realised how out of sorts she was.
Yanbu to expect them to handle things better when they knew she was ill
I just wonder what the protocol is when a child is ill. what if it was serious?
How do teachers handle this? Do they ask pupils to come to them if they are sick? If my DD feels unwell and is shy who is she supposed to tell?
I keep asking her to tell the teacher but is she even supposed too?
Should I tell the school I am at home with the baby so she doesn't need to go to after school clubs etc if she is ill?
I am handing my DD over to them, and I feel they have a duty of care to her.
I just find it all a mixture of vague and frantic.
Look OP it's happened to my shy DD before...I never even thought to complain but explained to DD that she simply MUST tell the teacher if she's ill and they will call me to get her....it's a life lesson. You have to let your children learn from experience and not complain over every little thing.
Of course she is supposed to tell the teacher...the teacher has 29 other DC to watch over as well as teach....yes there are assistants but these thing do get missed.
Yes but Jitney, this is the point, there was communication between her and the teacher and I was not called.
I have been telling her to tell the teacher, the teacher was alerted and she did not call me and she went to after school club.
Is it a little thing if a child has a temp, look pale and is on verge of throwing up, complaining of legs aching and cant walk well?
Aside from vomiting everywhere I am not sure how much more ill she was supposed to be before help was called.
I think we get used to nursery/preschool etc sending them home as soon as they sneeze etc or look a bit pink. But at school they tend to keep them unless there are obviously unwell - eg boiling hot - vomited - big rash etc. And they don't know her as well as you do, to recognise when they look rather peaky.
I picked up DD and saw straight away she had chickenpox one day. Because I know how pasty she usually looks, know what she looks like when she is well rather than ill or just tired.
Don't be afraid to keep her off if you know she's not right. But they are teachers and TAs, they can't triage the children.
Even the after school club? That lady who walked her to the car why did she not call me sooner?
It just worries me a great deal. I am more than happy to keep her at home and be more cautious and have her off more days than she needs, but then the school send out strong messages about getting them in, but then they cant seem to cope with sick children.
It's not a good idea to ask children if they are feeling ill, if they are not indicating they are. Children often tell parents they have a tummy ache or whatever before they go to school, and then they forget all about it once they are busy at school. If you ask them, then it reminds them - not helpful when there are some children who just prefer the idea of a day at home.
Not saying your dd was, but as you were asking about policy generally.
I would say she almost looked delirious, which is why after the vomiting when I got her home, she didnt pick up, I took her physically to the docs and said I have my DD in the car I know its late but can someone just look at her!
Its just the lines of communication seem lost.
I can call and tell the office she isn't well but they probably wont feed back that she was sick as soon as in car.
I want them to call me if she is crying, and doesn't feel well. I want her to come home.
I do understand that aspet, I can see how it can be abused and children start to feel sorry for themselves and over react.
On the other hand, cant some serious things slip through the net if the teachers are not more alert? she was crying and was told not to cry.
But she wasn't very poorly, she has a bit of a temp and was sick.
They get these things a lot. A minor illness that you can look after at home is not very poorly .
Do you worry about her a lot, do you think? And I mean that nicely, IYKWIM.
We know that now Joanna, but children can recover very quickly and also go down hill quickly esp when we do not know what is wrong.
Do you worry about her a lot, do you think? And I mean that nicely, IYKWIM
she gets loads of head injury slips, about 1 a week, sometimes more.
That's when she has had a run in, in the play ground.
I am concerned they didn't realise how she needed to come home today, and I needed to be told.
If she was like that after a head injury, I would have been very concerned.
I work in a school and from what I have seen they would normally call the parent if the child was obviously unwell, but they might not ask her if she was looking ok. Normally the child would tell the teacher or ta and the ta would deal with it. I think you should go in and see the teacher you will feel better if you talk directly to her and just say you felt she should have been sent home and that you want her to be made aware who to talk to if she has a problem in future.
If she was sick on Sunday she shouldn't have gone back to school til Wednesday, surely? I think you were pushing it a bit, A flouting the 48 hour rule (grrrrrr) and B not allowing her time to recover at home, no wonder she was feeling RUBBISH on the Weds after school
I agree with BackFor, you generally don't ask children if they are feeling ill or unwell as a matter of course.
You don't know how see presented to the teacher. She could well have just been a bit quieter than usual. She might have started to cry 10 minutes before home time and the "don't cry" could well have been "Awww lovey, don't cry. Mummy'll be here soon."
I think you are over reacting a bit. The teacher and TA are not mind readers. Your DD needs to tell them if she feels poorly and you need to get the importance of that across to her. I am sure she asks for other things, like the toilet for example.
She'll have to stay home for the rest of the week now because it's 48 hours after the last vomit before she can go back to school. I hope she is better soon.
I tried to do that last time, when I asked if someone could just ask her if she was ok and open up the lines of communication,
I would have expected the TA to say " Cat child, I heard you were not well last night but felt better today, if you feel very unwell again you know you can tell me, and I will call your mummy?"
I will just have to do it again, I do not feel the school or staff are very approachable. I find these things v akward.
Gobblino - i not saying this to be mean as I am really not a meanie. But reading this you sound stressed. Have you managed to get a decent amount of sleep with this bug and your baby ?
Children get ill at school just like they get ill at home. No teacher wants a sick child on their class which is why children are to stay at home until better.
Speak to the the teacher about your concerns, or the key stage leader.
I hope you daughter feels better soon.
To be perfectly honest, this is why I would never work in primary school. Too many pfb parents worrying themselves sick (ironically) over the tiniest of incidents. Of course the school would have alerted you if your child was dangerously ill. But she wasn't, she had a stomach upset at most. Of course they would have noticed if she was truly, desperately ill, but you have no idea of how she presented herself at school, other than a small child saying someone told her not to cry, which probably isn't even the entire conversation. Children amongst their friends will often present themselves as being utterly well, since they're having fun playing, it's only towards the end of the day when parents start turning up and the playing stops that they begin to realise they feel poorly.
The after school club is an entirely separate issue to the classroom.
Honestly, it's cliche, but the teacher really does NOT have time to triage children all day long. And if you stop for every sniffle or tummy ache to call home, not a great deal of learning will be taking place that day.
Sorry to sound harsh, but this really is too small an issue. Part of starting school is beginning to learn independence, which includes talking to other grown-ups about how you are feeling/if something's wrong.
I can only ask my DD to tell the teachers or TA so much.,
I have said till I am BLUE in the face.
Over and over again, and i will keep saying it but DD has been ill twice now and no one has helped her at school and no one has rung me, and no one there is backing me up!
if the teacher isn't approachable or doesn't ask the child when the parent has asked them too, I am not sure what else I can do.
Mummy wasn't here soon, mummy was another hour because she didn't know.
Yes re 48 rule, she had one instance of vomiting and seemed so much better with no more sickness rest of day or monday when at home.
will err on side of extreme caution in future
pancake yes I am stressed, have baby who has been not sleeping and I have hurt my back, having to carry baby and sick 6 year old has not been fun.
I do not trust the school I guess.
Before on collection they have told me I owe dinner money when did not. Got DD home and she is pale all of a sudden then tells me she had a head injury before she came home and had an ice pack . There was no slip and they did not tell me, it was almost too late to call the school to find out if this was true!
The teacher didn't know either Gobbolino. Children deteriorate really quickly. She might have thought your DD was tired. If your DD doesn't tell her, how is she supposed to know? How many days after she has come back from being ill do you want them to check that she is OK? They probably think that as you have sent her back to school she is well enought to be there and she shouldn't need checking, tbh.
You should go in Cat and just have a little chat with the teacher, go in after school when they are not so busy. Its good to get to know the teacher a bit, can you do some kind of volunteering and get involved that way. I know not always possible with a baby. But don't be scared to go and talk to the teacher, they don't mind unless you are there every day with some quibble. Anyway she can now stay off till after half term so you don't have to worry for a week.
It's not fun. And sending you an illegal MN hug.
I would talk to the teacher that you feel twice your child had been ignored (and keep in mind you think your child hasn't the confidence to approach their teacher). See what the teachers take on this is.
Hope you get some rest.
And I think all the children are looking wiped out at the moment - they need half term.
The only idea I would add for future consideration (past is past, can't change what happened, only plan for future)... What about canceling after school club on the days she's not in peak health? You just make decision to pick her up that afternoon and communicate it to all in the morning.
Sometimes it's those hours after school time when they start to feel effects of long day and start to feel worse exponentially quicker. Seems like they can mentally/physically hold it together until 2:30 ... By 3:00 it's a whole other thing.
Plus, if she knows that she's going into the day feeling 75% good - but knows that the day will end at regular school hrs & she doesn't have to push it further ... She may feel less stressed about holding it all together until she sees you. The stress of holding it together takes a toll.
Just a thought & hope she's feeling tip top soon.
That head injury thing is a bit strange I have never heard of that before. It seems like she gets a lot of head injuries? I would be a bit concerned about that. Why does she keep bumping her head? Why does the school have a special slip?
Thanks people I feel a bit calmer about it today now had some sleep, all i can do is have a quick word with the teacher.
horrid they have to give us a slip when they hurt their heads and she gets them loads.
If my child was under the weather I would not put them in an after school club if i was at home so YABU there. If your child was crying in class, even if she was too shy to tell the teacher there would definitely be a lot of other children who aren't at that age & will say X is crying!
Oh & the golden rule as a teacher or a parent is NOT to ask a child how they are feeling if they seem ok cos they always then develop complaints! If she was unwell before she went to school the responsibility lies with you I'm afraid.
Children don't always give the correct answer.
If you ask dd1 if she's feeling ill, she will always tell you she's fine. She was saying that (age 8) as I took her into the doctors where he diagnosed cronic pneumonia and was surprised that she could even sit up let alone stand with her statistics. She was trying to walk to school...
Dd2 will always tell you something's wrong. If you suggest a headache... she's got one, tummyache... yep that as well... She can even make herself look pale. Don't know how she does it... can produce tears at will too.
Ds is the easiest for me because he gets a distinctive smell, and a particular look when ill. I can tell. No one else can. I remember once though he did a 30minute class. Bounced in, skipped out. All fine and happy. 10 minutes later his temperature was over 40degrees and he could hardly stand.
It's not easy for a teacher.
As usual on MN, heaven forbid that a teacher should be in the wrong or be actually expected to do anything other than teach! I get that time is short and that they cant give tons of individual attention, but surely to god if a child clearly looks ill they should do something.
OP - I don't think you are being precious at all. I think it is worth mentioning to the teacher in a polite but firm way.
Btw, have you considered whether she might be suffering from migraine?
Also worth remembering that while you know signs of illness in your child, the teacher doesn't. Some children, especially at this end of the term, are so pale and tired that it is a normal look for them. Children of this age also go downhill, and uphill again very rapidly. DS2 at five was admitted to hospital one day with convulsions and a temperature of over 40. Fine by the next evening and back at school the following day! Have a conversation, but try not to go in all guns blazing.
Bona Thanks , I was posting to get an idea of what teachers do at other peoples schools, what policy is.
Yes I have been thinking about migranes as I am a sufferer though they have become thankfully rarer.
It has crossed my mind she may get them too I think it was at this age I started to get them .
Re: The teacher can't tell and does not know, I did try and make it as clear as possible from my OP just how ill she looked, so ill, she was being escorted by the the after school lady and also the doctors reaction. She looked ghaslty and she was crying.
This really was not border line.
She was not, not ill in the am, which is why we sent her in, she had been the previous day all as normal.
Just chatting to some other people about it and they seem to have a sort of sick room, they take the childs temperature, and call you if they think the child is ill.
Our school said this am, they do not get sent home unless they are actually being sick into a bowl,
Redhelen as said in op she was clearly very obviously ill. I had no idea she was ill as no one told me or called me, hence as usual she went onto this other club. She didn't have too and I would not have sent her had I had known.
I also think that it's possible she looked ok until shortly before you arrived, and that the 'Don't cry' was a sympathetic one because they knew you'd already be on your way (which might also explain why they didn't ring you).
If my dd (reception class) says she feels unwell, I encourage her to go in anyway - often, by the time we get to school she's forgotten. And we've been lucky so far - she hasn't been unwell this half term so haven't had to deal with anything like your dd's bugs. However (and this is the relevant bit), if she's said she feels unwell, I go in to see the teacher in the morning, and catch either her or the TA personally to say "DD said first thing she had tummy ache/earache. I think she's fine, and she's been fine since she ate breakfast, but if she fades let me know - I can come and get her. I've told her to tell you if she feels ill." I don't rely on messages being sent through from the office, just in case! I also then say my goodbyes to dd and tell her then that if she feels unwell, Mrs X/Miss Z know that she felt funny this morning because I've told them so they won't mind if she tells them she feels poorly, which hopefully means she will feel more comfortable saying to them if she feels off. I don't expect them to ask her though - I know from my own experience with DD that if I ask her if she feels ok she's liable to discover a headache or similar so I wouldn't want them prompting her to feel ill at school! The exception would be if they thought she really looked unwell - obviously I'd expect them to question that but as I said before, I would check that this didn't happen 10 minutes before you arrived anyway. Do you know for certain, for example, that she said she felt poorly before the after-school club? Or did she actually only say it towards the end of the club?
Is it possible to go in to school yourself if she's been unwell in the run-up, and explain? Our school is very rural, and tiny, so they encourage lots of popping in and out - I realise it might not be possible elsewhere.
OP, at my primary school teachers refer pupils to support staff who are first aiders. The children have to approach their teacher and say they feel unwell first though.
If I am on first aid duty I will take the child aside or to medical room and ask various questions to get more information about symptoms etc. I may ask if they have felt like this before so I can get a better picture of what's going on. We have good facilities at the medical room (bed, medical equipment, ice packs, filtered water etc).
It is usually easy to see if a child genuinely feels ill, they look tense, subdued, uncomfortable. However, I have to contact a member of the management team to get permission to phone home to get a member of the family to pick up child.
Occasionally, I will be told that I can phone to let family know, but will keep child at school and monitor them. If they continue to feel very unwell, we will call back and ask for a pick up.
A lot depends on the age of the child too. Younger children may feel less able to describe how they feel. I would be more likely to phone home for infants.
OP, next time your daughter attends school after a weekend of feeling unwell, please write a note detailing your concerns and asking for a phone call home if she becomes unwell again.
I would hope that the school will be able to do this for you. They are unlikely to keep asking your daughter if she feels ok though, they will wait for her to alert them if she feels ill.
It is wrong of the teacher to have told your daughter to "stop crying" when she felt ill. Hope you can sort it out.
TbH Op, I would be concerned about the amount of head injuries your child seems to be having...
OP - I also started to suffer from migraines around that age too. When you said glassy eyes and vomiting it just hit a nerve. Maybe get it checked out. I also often got them on Sundays although I know that sounds weird - dont know whether it was the excitement of the weekend or dreading school (I hated school although I always did well).
I was teaching my Y2 class - they were eating snack on the carpet and I was worried about one boy (who is v shy and rarely speaks anyway). I took him to one side, asked if he was ok - he nodded, I prompted "a bit tired maybe?" - shakes head, "are you feeling sick? Do you want to go for a drink of a water?" - shakes head.
15 minutes later he vomited onto his maths book.
You have my sympathies, OP, but it really is difficult. I hope your DD feels better soon.
We've had complaints from some parents about phoning them re: their children presenting as ill, as they're reluctant to leave work to collect them unless they're "really" ill. They clearly think that the school is fussing, and therefore the pendulum has swung back the other way a fair bit and we will try to jolly them along until home-time.
One parent recently refused to come and get her child as she "was busy" and why couldn't we put her to lie down somewhere.
This is the line that school staff have to walk. For every parent who wishes to be informed (as you are), there's another who doesn't.
I agree with those who say it's generally not the best idea to ask a child how they're feeling, as it can serve to remind them that they've been feeling rough. We have a lot of parents who send their kids to school in the morning with the promise of "tell your teacher if you feel ill and I'll come and get you home." Lo and behold, they decide they're feeling ill half way through maths.
I've developed a pretty good radar for genuine illness over the years, as opposed to "I'm tired and fed up and want my mum," but even I have cocked up occasionally. It's early in the year for the teacher to know your child well enough, but there are some who you take one look at and say "let's call Mum." It does sound as though this might have been one of those occasions, but it was missed. I don't think it's worth going in "all guns blazing" though. Half term is coming up, so she'll get some rest and recuperation there and hopefully it'll all behind her.
If not, get her checked out for migraines.
i think children can pick up and go downhill very quickly. I have been called in to collect dd urgently to find her skipping out happily to meet me after vomiting everywhere and crying on TA knee. an hour later she looked awful again. I think you have to recognise that maybe she seemed Ok then felt poorly then maybe got on with things and then went down hill. perhaps by the time she was looking rough it was nearly the end of the day anyway. tbh no teacher will risk a child throwing up in class but they probably dont have a minute to sit down when dealing with little ones. I think you need to accept that your dd should not be in school if you arent sure she is well. Teacher wont have deliberately ignored your dd so she either misjudged it (which is easily done as they can seem fine one minute and dreadful the next) or didnt notice. Either way I dont see the point making an issue out of it.
I do not think my school has anything in place as you describe. What you are saying you do is what I expect to be done.
My DD is in year one and has lots of enthusiasm for school and enjoys going. Even if she did not the concept of putting something on, is beyond her at the moment. I know some children do not, but I do not see why we are sort of tarring all DC with the same brush.
It just seems odd to almost ignore illness and never ask the dc questions, in case one is putting it on. When as a few posters have said its pretty obvious when a child looks ill.
What if that one time a child is seriously ill and they are being ignored because Tommy makes it up?
i do not see the harm in being "pro active" and asking a child who looks and is acting ill, are you ok.
I think you need to accept that your dd should not be in school if you arent sure she is well.
Absolutely!! The first time I sent her in was most definalty a mistake.
Second time round, she had been off school with no more sickness or temp and seemed fine.
I will be erring on the side of caution in future.
I just find it all at odds with the attendance thing and being soo strict about attendance.
Whilst it's often (although not always) easy to spot the tell-tale signs of illness in one's own child in a 1:1 situation at home, it is totally different in school, where there are 30 children all clamouring for attention at once. It is regrettable, but sometimes these things do get missed - if there were, indeed, any visible signs during school time. Remember, you didn't see her until an hour later, and it could have been within that time that she deteriorated.
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now
Already registered with Mumsnet? Log in to leave your comment or alternatively, sign in with Facebook or Google.
Please login first.