People who get frothy about removing pubic hair?

(98 Posts)
OoozingCervix Wed 23-Oct-13 20:29:32

I do get the whole pre-pubescent/pornstar thing.

but what about legs and pits?

Is that not the same argument?

Despite not really giving two hoots what other people do (and I know the whole shave/trim/plait thing has been done to death) but it confuses me.

gigglestar Wed 23-Oct-13 21:30:12

I've always gone for the 'totally hairless'. Can't stand pubic hair on myself or anyone else - i especially hate it on guys. I hate seeing loose bits of it lying round, stuck on towels, in the bath etc and i find it's a nuisance when i'm getting intimate with a man. Pisses me off when the 'au naturel' brigade say crap like 'but it's encouraging men to lust after childrens bodies (paedophilia)', i mean seriously?!!! That's just sick.....just like going down on a man and getting pubes poking your face and trying to get in your mouth. I've always asked my bf to trim it as much as possible if they don't want to go completely bare.

FreudiansSlipper Wed 23-Oct-13 21:36:05

well legs/underarms (if wearing vest like tops) are seen by many, your foofoo is seen by well not that many unless you are a porn star

WhoNickedMyName Wed 23-Oct-13 21:40:17

I don't get the 'looks pre-pubescent' insult that gets flung at those who choose to remove pubic hair.

I've never seen a pre-pubescent girl with boobs or women's hips.

Believe me, my body looks far from pre-pubescent with or without hair.

BouquetFanjo Wed 23-Oct-13 21:41:57

If I could I'd be hairless from my eyebrows down.

Body hair is just a nuisance. All of it.

MrsWolowitz Wed 23-Oct-13 21:43:48

I think its down to choice. I trim my ladygarden and shave my legs and pits but I am very aware that I do that to conform to society's view of what is attractive. I used to think that I did it because I like it but actually, thinking about it, if nobody ever shaved anything then I wouldn't suddenly have decided to have become the first ever person to start trimming and shaving parts of my body.

I would not find a pubic-hairlessness attractive in a man. At all. That's my preference though. DH shaved it all off for his vasectomy (he didn't realise he didn't need to be totally hairless hmm ) and neither of us liked it.

EdithWeston Wed 23-Oct-13 21:44:58

Legal and puts are visible in ordinary clothing.

Pubes aren't (well, for most people) so the arguments arene't the same.

Given that pubic depilation was virtually unread of a decade or so ago, then looking at what sexual fashions have changed is pertinent.

Pornification is the obvious reason. And yes, they are deliberately looking (other than in specialist breeder areas) at non-reproductive sex, which is associated with the hairlessness of prepubescence or post-menopause.

TheFabulousFuckingIdiotFucker Wed 23-Oct-13 21:47:04

Yes it's pretty much the same argument, what's your point?

We are conditioned to remove our hair, some remove more than others.
Genitals are particularly odd.

MrsWolowitz Wed 23-Oct-13 21:48:18

legal and puts grin grin

TheBookofRuth Wed 23-Oct-13 21:48:32

No eyelashes then Bouquet? grin

LEMisafucker Wed 23-Oct-13 21:50:23

My DP likes for me to shave "down there" simply because he doesn't like getting pubes in his mouth <true fact> I just do the important bit around my clit grin the rest is like a fecking jungle

LynetteScavo Wed 23-Oct-13 21:50:25

None of you will ever know what I do with my pubic hair.

That is between me and my DH. (And he, when it comes down to it, doesn't seem to care less what state it's in.)

KirjavaTheCorpse Wed 23-Oct-13 21:52:08

The whole thing confuses me. Why do people care about what I do with my pubes?

MrsWolowitz Wed 23-Oct-13 21:52:17

None of you will ever know what I do with my pubic hair.

I was waiting on the edge of my seat to know.

<deflated>

FortyDoorsToNowhere Wed 23-Oct-13 21:53:51

For me I don't like my Lady garden over grown, I prefer it bare.

can't stand the itch after so don't do it as often as i would like.

izzydazzling Wed 23-Oct-13 21:54:03

I'm probably in the frothy brigade. It really pisses me off that certain sections of the media (ok the D***y M**l) run down women who leave their hair au natural. Getting hysterical over hairy armpits? C'mon get a grip man!

LynetteScavo Wed 23-Oct-13 21:54:05

grin

DaleyBump Wed 23-Oct-13 21:55:43

This thread again.

Why can't everyone just agree to stop broadcasting their opinions about what other people do with their private parts?

2andout Wed 23-Oct-13 21:56:48

Have you not noticed that the pressure to change your body in order to be considered attractive largely falls on women? This is just yet another PITA (literally) bodily adjustment that is becoming accepted as 'the norm' for women. So we're all supposed to waste hours of our lives in the bathroom faffing with our foofs while all the (hairy) men just get on with running the world like they always have. Just a waste of time IMO that could be better spent on more important stuff.

Pooka Wed 23-Oct-13 22:00:20

How would you feel about this scenario then?

Relative has husband and 2 dds. The dds are 17 and 16.

Relative's H sees 17 yr old getting out of shower and exclaims that "there's a jungle there, go see your mother".

So relative takes 17 and 16 year old off to have laser treatment to neaten pubic hair.

THis is not in UK. It is absolutely true. The husband is quite into porn I understand.

I was absolutely gobsmacked when I heard. And very sad that this kind of pressure exists for young women to conform to some new trend for hairlessness. I worry about my young dd and the possibility that anyone might make her feel bad when she is older if she doesn't do hair removal.

How can I teach her that hair is normal and that she shouldn't feel under any pressure to remove pubic hair if she doesn't want to? I suppose I'm frothy because as hair removal becomes the norm, it takes away an element of personal choice because people generally want to fit in and not elicit a negative reaction in a sexual partner about an aspect of their body. And because I automatically remove underarm and leg hair (in summer) because I don't want people to go "ew" and if by the time dd is older it is the norm to remove pubes, it's yet another thing she will feel pressured to do to herself, and I want her to feel confident about her body.

I don't know if I'm making sense. If people want to remove hair then they can of course do that and I wouldn't judge. Their body, their choice. But the probelm is that personal choice can impact upon other people and im reslly unsure of how i can go about helping my dd be confident in her body.

GideonKipper Wed 23-Oct-13 22:00:21

EdithWeston on earth are 'specialist breeders areas'?

GideonKipper Wed 23-Oct-13 22:00:58

What on earth?!

AnyKormaFucker Wed 23-Oct-13 22:05:47

Do you think some where there is a forum full of men discussing shaving their pubes ?

I doubt it

MrsWolowitz Wed 23-Oct-13 22:06:44

Good post Pooka

GideonKipper Wed 23-Oct-13 22:07:21

I think the removal of leg and underarm hair is linked with femininity - it makes these areas look quite masculine with hair there. Agree with pp who said the shaved pubic area look has arisen in line with the prevalence of pornographic visuals, widely available on the Internet.

sonlypuppyfat Wed 23-Oct-13 22:13:09

I've said it a million times, removing pubic hair is very very strange and men doing it!! I'm glad I'm old and settled.

FreudiansSlipper Wed 23-Oct-13 22:14:41

i used to work as a beauty therapist, bikini waxing was the most popular treatment. i was only asked once to wax all pubic hair off and the woman happened to be a stripper and prostitute

it has become popular mainly because porn has and this is what woman have in porn films, this is where so many men learn what sex is about and this is what many expect or are conditioned to thinking this is how women should be

saying that i know in many middle eastern countries all hair is sugared off, when my ex sil suggested it to me i was horrified

badbride Wed 23-Oct-13 22:15:33

To each her own. But what boggles my mind is that those who go for a completely bare look have to do one of three things:

1) Spend ages in the shower every morning applying a razor to a somewhat delicate and convoluted body part in order to avoid itchy regrowth/ chafing issues;

2) Apply ponging, stinging depilation lotion to aforementioned parts;

3) Lie spreadeagled on a paper-covered couch while an orange lady attacks their lady parts with hot wax/ a laser gun. A LASER GUN!! shock

It all sounds a bit bonkers to me. If it came to be the expected norm (like the social pressure to shave pits) I would be pretty cross about it.

creepypenisreaper Wed 23-Oct-13 22:18:33

Bouquet that would be an odd haircut grin

gigglestar Wed 23-Oct-13 22:32:52

pooka i find that situation quite disturbing. The fact that he saw her ladygarden and the fact that the mother didn't think to question it or set down house rules on modesty within a mixed sex household. Also the fact that she took her teen daughters to get it lasered rather than allow them their bodily autonomy shock In our family we had a rule about modesty and privacy-soon as you hit puberty you make sure you leave the bathroom either suitably dressed or wearing a bathrobe, always knock-no barging into each others bedrooms. I've not come across anyone in my circle who had it lasered though.....

fortydoorstonowhere i used to either shave it or use depil creams-the re-growth itch was awful as were the ingrowing hairs, then i started getting it waxed and it's well worth the investment. Grows back softer,no ingrowing hairs and over time it actually takes longer to grow back grin

daleybump i guess because it's a point of interest and makes a nice change from the usual 'vaginal tears/saggy fanjo' etc threads [grins]

whois Wed 23-Oct-13 22:42:34

I like my pubic hair beat when it is a few days post shaving/week post waxing. Lovely and soft and the same short length all over.

I prefer my DP to shave and like or heat when he is a few days of new growth.

I dislike getting pubes in my mouth.

gigglestar Wed 23-Oct-13 22:43:52

pooka i believe this is an area where we women need to start consciously and actively re-assessing why we give others (people/culture etc) the power to decide what we should be doing with our bodies. Shaved pits and legs has become the norm unfortunately but that shouldn't stop us from teaching our children that actually hairy is a perfectly natural state and any deviation from that is, as you rightly said, a personal choice and we should not allow anyone else to make that choice for us. I guess the best way to approach it with your DD would be to emphasise that seeing as it is an area that one would generally only share with their significant other, it is entirely her choice as to what she does with it. Her partner/s should respect her choice, if they don't then they're not worthy of being with your daughter smile

Pooka Wed 23-Oct-13 22:45:44

I also found it very disturbing. Though not so much in terms of him seeing - it happens. There's no suggestion that it was dodgy in that sense. We're pretty open in my immediate family and I ould imagine me walking in on ds, or dh walking in on dd accidentally in the future (and apologising and leaving swiftly). But the idea that he felt he could comment negatively says a lot about him IMO.

I don't expect it was a case of forcing them to do it. I expect his reaction suggested that that's what women do. A rite of passage. And if mom says women remove hair, or if that's what they seen her like, then it's normalised for them.

I just found it so sad.

sonlypuppyfat Wed 23-Oct-13 22:46:53

Why would you want a perfectly nice place looking like a plucked chicken.

Badbride - I shave, and after 20 years of practice, it takes me less than a minute.

Oh - and as I say, I started doing this 20 years ago - longer than the decade ago when it was virtually unheard of, according to one poster - and despite being at the forefront of this movement, I can promise you I was never a stripper or prostitute. I did it one day, like the way it made me felt, and never went back.

I do it just for me, too. Dh likes it that way, but knows fine well that if I wanted to stop shaving, I would, because it is my body. And even with no pubic hair, I look NOTHING like a child.

Pooka Wed 23-Oct-13 22:54:42

Absolutely gigglestar.

All about making sure other party unlikely to comment negatively by building up trust. At same time, I remember how unconfident I was when first sexually active. The idea that some guy who has an idea from watching porn or having hairless sexual partners that hairy = abnormal might have the ability to knock her body confidence makes me angry.

Years to go though...

gigglestar Wed 23-Oct-13 22:55:42

edithweston i think the surge in popularity is more to do with awareness of choice and having access to a wider range of hair removal means. I come from a culture where bikini hair trimming/removal is sort of embedded into the 'hygeine' side of things and has been since recorded history, but the removal of other bodily hair, ie facial,arms/legs/pits is frowned upon to the point where some individuals will quote religious texts supporting their viewpoint (go figure!) Saying that, bikini hair trimming/removal is also encouraged as part of the 'how to please your man' thing (not something i agree with btw)...but in the same breath in my culture it is also expected that a woman should never be sharing that region with anyone other than her husband either. I say women should be free to choose either option and be respected for their personal choice.

The only reason I do it is because oral sex feels nicer....my DH returns the favour. We both prefer it, so it's not really anyone else's business grin

29chapel Wed 23-Oct-13 23:03:41

pooka i understand entirely. I would rather not have a 'lady garden' because i find it annoying (and my husband doesn't like it particularly for reasons others have mentioned) but the reason i only get it waxed off when we are going on holiday is because i don't want my daughter to believe it's abnormal or dirty.

BasilFucker Wed 23-Oct-13 23:05:27

I just can't imagine why anyone would bother.

My body's good enough the way it is and if anyone doesn't like it, they don't need to look at it.

If other women want to do it, whatever, but the more normalised it becomes, the more pressure is exerted on younger women who are much more vulnerable to the message that their bodies are disgusting and dirty and not good enough and need to ahve loads of money spent on them to come up to scratch.

Whcih is sad.

gigglestar Wed 23-Oct-13 23:08:30

badbride most women i know tend to get it waxed, takes less than 5 minutes and doesn't involve being spreadeagled smile Trust me, i go for the full front and back areas and all i do is lie on alternate sides with my leg bent at the knee. Also, if you trim it before you get it waxed it reduces the 'pull' factor.

sonlypuppyfat Wed 23-Oct-13 23:13:56

I don't know any who wax it. Would you wax your head because it felt cleaner?

GideonKipper Wed 23-Oct-13 23:18:52

29chapel surely you should go with what feels best for you?

gigglestar Wed 23-Oct-13 23:20:10

basilfucker that is why we women and parents need to educate and emphasise bodily autonomy for men and women in all areas of life and teach them confidence. Unfortunately the media won't and our educational system is woefully lacking. We women need to be kinder to each other too if we want this to happen, i find it sad that we can be so nasty to each other when it comes to things like abortion/childbirth/weight/personal appearance. If we want men-and the wider society-to respect our freedom of choice then we need to set that precedent.

gigglestar Wed 23-Oct-13 23:24:18

sonlypuppyfat if i wanted to and it felt good for me personally - yes i would. As it happens i love my head of big, bouncy curly hair and am already dreading the time when age will affect that. I wax for me - not anyone else - and therein lies the crucial difference smile

TheDoctrineOfAnyFucker Wed 23-Oct-13 23:52:05

The correct response when you accidentally walk in on your teenager showering is surely "aargh, sorry, sorry!"

DelightedSadFuckerIsBanned Thu 24-Oct-13 00:06:32

Well, I guess the Ancient Greeks must have been heavy porn users too.......

MyBaby1day Thu 24-Oct-13 07:38:58

Agree with gigglestar don't like it at all and think it's unhygienic.

sonlypuppyfat Thu 24-Oct-13 07:46:17

How on earth is it unhygenic? Don't you wash?

stopthiscrap Thu 24-Oct-13 08:02:34

Brilliant another "we are all forced to do things by porn and your oh is a paedo" thread.
Just fuck off with it.

BasilFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 09:10:52

sonlypuppyfat it's unhygienic because every time you wax/ shave you are making microscopic tears in your skin which allow bacteria into a very sensitive area of your body, as well as losing the pubic hair which traps bacteria in the first place.

It's a very tiny risk, not very significant, but it is there. When people say things like pubic hair looks dirty, unkempt etc. it always amuses me because actually it's the other way round. It's up to people to decide what risks they're willing to take with their bodies, most women will choose to accept this risk because they've internalised the message that pubic hair = ugly, uncomfortable "inconvenient" (!) etc. and looking in the mirror seeing it there will make them unhappy.

Our culture is very, very good at making women feel unhappy with their bodies. It has a vested interest in doing so, both for financial reasons and ideological ones.

TheDoctrineOfAnyFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 09:20:23

Basil, I think sonly was questioning a poster who said the hair was unhygienic.

But otherwise, what you said.

meekenough Thu 24-Oct-13 09:24:29

I've been a young carer for disabled siblings since I was a child , (probably innapropriately)
When you've cut blood cots out of someones pubic hair, I couldn't wait to cut all mine off.

sorry TMI. but yeah the 'its cuz' of porn dear' argument isn't always correct.

BasilFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 09:28:00

Oh sorry, missed that.

Has someone already said that?

That pubic hair is unhygienic?

grin

Marketers can tell us anything can't they.

TheDoctrineOfAnyFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 09:34:20

Meek, I see your practical point and sorry you had to do that so young sad but doesn't the blood only clot in the underneath hair, so a trim down there but leaving the front alone would solve that, wouldn't it?

meekenough Thu 24-Oct-13 09:34:29

I'm not saying its unhygenic, if thats aimed at me.

but that is the moment I thought I want to shave, not viewing a pornstar.
A child of my age really shouldn't have been doing that so you could say trauma was involved.
But at the time yes It made me feel cleaner,
I don't all together anymore just neaten up around the bikini line interestingly.

Tuonz Thu 24-Oct-13 09:34:35

Oh look. Women who remove the hair saying "I do x, but don't care if others do y"

Women who don't implying anyone who does is strange and it "looks like a plucked chicken"

Fuck off with your judgey pants. My pubes not yours. I'm not strange nor do I look like a plucked chicken.

I bet if I started saying your genitals must look like x as a result of non hair removal you'd think I was very rude.

LEMisafucker Thu 24-Oct-13 09:34:38

Basil you are right - i was going to post that whilst i don't thnk that it is unhygenic, i don't think it is hygenic.

As i said up threaad somewhere - i occasionally shave (there is no way i am EVER waxing down there, ever!) just the relavent part which makes oral sex less hairy for DP and it does feel amazing blush when i am smooth (for oral) but i don't think it looks very nice, i'm thinking plucked chicken hmm. It is a very personal thing that i do (not so much now) for our sex life, nothing to do wiht looks (who else sees my foof ffs!). I don't feel so clean down there when i have shaved though which is one of the reasons its a special treat grin

I actually have more of a problem with facial hair and the pressure from society not to have this! And legs - fuck off with that as well, i am blonde so i don't look like a yeti but i don't shave my legs or under my arms. I think that is more of an issue than shaving my vagina.

LEMisafucker Thu 24-Oct-13 09:36:14

Tuonz, i am actually envy that you don't look like a plucked chicken, because i do blush

Tuonz Thu 24-Oct-13 09:38:29

I look like a woman LEM, and regardless of hair or not i'm sure you do too.

Chattymummyhere Thu 24-Oct-13 09:44:58

I don't care what others do with theirs..

I hate having pubes so I shave it all off I've even mastered blind shaving take like 2 mins in the shower of an evening no big deal..

I first started doing it before I ever saw porn however it was around my second period I felt so dirty having bloody on pubes it always felt no matter how much you wiped it was still dirty... I trimmed that just made it feel like a garden brush so off with it all and I was much happier I personally felt cleaner..

I don't want pubes in my mouth and nor does dh we both shave but I shave even when I'm on my period so his not even going to see it...

This is just like the whole tattoos thread... Those who have tattoos and those who shave couldn't give a shiny shit what everyone else does

However those who don't have tattoos and don't shave feel the need to belittle and make nasty comments about those who do

The points that have been made about hygiene are very interesting - one of the reasons I carried on shaving was that it felt cleaner to me. In other debates on MN about this, I have seen the 'it's cleaner' argument break out, and have never said that I feel cleaner - but I do.

However, I accept that that is purely my perception, and doesn't chime with the facts.

fluffyraggies Thu 24-Oct-13 09:50:00

I'd like to echo STGD and say that i've been shaving mine since i was about 15 and that is ALOT longer than a decade ago! (it's longer than 2 decades ago even) and has nothing to do with porn. I've always left a token 'landing strip' but hairless apart form that.

To begin with i think it was just to do with feeling cleaner and fresher and 'nicer' in the same way that shaving arm pits does.

As i got older i found also that sexual partners were appreciative of the lack of pubes up their nose. For years now it's been a habit the same as brushing my teeth, and takes up about 1 minute of my time apx twice a week. I don't get rashes, or itchy, or ingrowing hairs. I hate the feel of hairs all round my folds now and can't wait to get rid if for some reason i'm a bit late shaving.

The skin doesn't look 'shaved' (ie plucked chicken), but then i have fine hair on my head, so perhaps my pubes are fairly fine too in comparison with some women? (unsure of the actual texture of other women's pubes! grin)

Out of interest i hate shaved pubes on a man. My DH did it for a laugh once a few years ago and it was awful. All wrong. I willed it to grow back as fast as poss. and he hasn't done it since thank gawd.

LEMisafucker Thu 24-Oct-13 09:51:03

lol i do look like a woman, but my fanny looks like a couple of chicken breasts smile

BasilFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 09:58:37

Yes STDG, I wax my armpits in summer and it feels cleaner and fresher - but I know that's just my perception, because from when I was a tiny child, I was bombarded by imagery which implied that and it's deep in my sub-consciousness that it is cleaner and more hygienic.

But I know it's just my internalised perceptions, it's not real.

But as Dumbledore said, BasilFucker - 'Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?' grin

The funny thing is, I have seen this discussion come up on a forum where the vast majority of users were men. It started during a discussion about the TV show Spartacus, when someone asked why the men where all circumsised and manscaped, yet the women were full haired. We spent several hundred posts discussing our own public hair habits and whether we had a circumsised penis. With several cross country comparisons (there were mostly Americans, Britains and Germans involved in the discussion).

So it's not just women who discuss this. It's what happens on open forums. You don't just turn and start discussing this sort of thing in the office, so you talk about it anonomously on an open forum. It's just human nature to prefer to discuss private things anonomously.

BasilFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 10:12:42

The perception is real.

But the perception is wrong, isn't it?

Tuonz Thu 24-Oct-13 10:14:25

Miner's more badly wrapped kebab, LEM. Bloody childbirth.

Ah, theknights, I loved Spartacus, can't remember much of the story line though. Was it good grin

DidoTheDodo Thu 24-Oct-13 10:17:00

Personal choice to remove or not.
But the current "fashion" (and that is what it is) for removing it all may make those who decide not to feel wrong in their decision, and that is not a good thing.

I really enjoyed the story, personally. Some nice interpretations of history.

Although, I must say, that particular arguement got a lot more heated. Especially with regards to the circumcision part. There were pictures of various cheeses being posted to illustrate insults.

curlew Thu 24-Oct-13 10:19:37

My Autumn Solstice resolution.

To not get involved in any discussion where a sensible, reasoned point of view is referred to as "frothing".

Tuonz Thu 24-Oct-13 10:26:11

Ah, I'm familiar with another board which has a mostly male base. I've seen circumcision debates get worse than any hair or no threads.

To be fair I'd probably be a lot more mouthy if someone thought I should chop of something that wouldn't grow back or suggested that a decision I'd had no input in was having an adverse effect.

I suppose it would be like an arguement coming up on here that women should have their inner lips trimmed or something. You can only imagine how heated such a debate would get. Yes, some of us who still own foreskins were quite defensive of the little bits of skin we'd kept hold of.

Tuonz Thu 24-Oct-13 10:35:10

Never thought of it like that. FGM (quite righlty) gets a huge response and it very emotive. Male circumcision seems to be going a similar way (from what I saw on another thread).

Yes, but FGM is considered so bad because it means the woman is likely to experience agonising pain whenever they have intercourse, is likely to experience severe tearing during childbirth and will have no feeling during any form of sex.

Male circumsicion, if I understand it, does not have the same effect. That's why I went with comparing it to cosmetic surgery to trim the lips (which is something that is happening and is legal by choice).

FreudiansSlipper Thu 24-Oct-13 10:39:32

no one is saying that everyone who waxes or shaves all their pubic hair has been influenced by porn or what they believe men want (that has been influenced by porn)

but to deny that it has had an influence is naive, why are so many women dieting to the extreme, having plastic boobs, hair extensions, false lashes, botex, lips pumped up and ffs vajazales

sadly we are constantly bombarded with images of how women should look like, porn is far more mainstream that it ever has been and it is influencing young women and men on how women should look (and act) like

when i was young i never gave it a second thought what my vagina may look like to a man i had sex with. i may have trimmed my hair but now it is part of our grooming

Tuonz Thu 24-Oct-13 10:42:57

See that's why I compared it to fgm. I know the impact of fgm is bloody awful, and I note that quite rightly it gets the bigger reaction.

Lip trimming, hair removal etc tends to e a choice. Fgm and circumcision isn't so although the effects differ I just meant to acknowledge why the circumcision vs not debates between men might get rather heated.

I did not mean to belittle fgm at all, it what I'm badly trying to say.

I didn't mean that I thought you were belittling FGM. I meant that it's very difficult to compare mail and female, becuase the effects are quite different.

Male and female, even.

Tuonz Thu 24-Oct-13 10:49:01

smile glad you knew what I meant. I get het up at the idea of people not being able to choose what they do with their own bodies.

Absy Thu 24-Oct-13 10:49:34

I've been wondering how "new" the whole pubic hair removal thing is. I know (think) in the Middle East it's been pretty common for centuries, but I wonder about Western Europe. A few months back, we went to a lot of art galleries in Madrid, and thereby saw a LOT of nude women (paintings, not actual people mind), painted throughout the centuries. I noticed that, pretty much up until the 1920s or so, female nudes are painted sans pubic hair.

Is this because 1) it was too much of a pain to paint or 2) it didn't "look nice" so painters didn't include or 3) it was common for women (or at least artists' models) to remove their pubes.

We'll probably never know ... (it's been bugging me for months)

e.g. 1
e.g. 2

and yeah, thanks MN for having all these discussions about pubic hair and the removal thereof, which then FORCED me to spend a lot of time staring at painted crotches and thinking about this.

Absy Thu 24-Oct-13 10:50:02

play "spot the pubic hair"

Absy, actually I have found the answer to that.

Shaving goes back to the Roman times, believe it or not. They considered body hair of any kind to be unsanitary, and removed it. It's been done in the Middle East for centuries as well.

The western trend is probably going to discust you. It began in brothels, when some prostitues would remove their pubes and replace them with mirkins (pubic wigs) to hide a syphillus infection. It wasn't done in other western setting, nor was other body hair removal until very recently. I know a 60 odd year old who has never once shaved her armpits, for example.

I've seen lots of 18th and 19th century paintings with plenty of pubes, along with many pre-modern photos and paintings (in an artistic gallery, obviously). It seems to have become mainstream since the 80s. Porn before then was full haired.

It seems to have gone viral since then, slowly. Perhaps because of porn, but it's also come about since the imitation of mediterranian women became commonplace (the tanning obsession, white skin used to be attractive until recently), who have removed pubes for many years "for hygiene reasons", so they say. Hence the term "Brazil Wax".

Venus was Roman, that's why. The Romans removed pubes millenia ago.

Fleta Thu 24-Oct-13 11:03:34

I remove all hair underneath because I find it much more comfortable. I've done it since I was 14 - well before I saw any porn or had the input from any man

Absy Thu 24-Oct-13 11:06:57

Thanks Knights! that has bugged me since about May.

I do also wonder if there is a degree of "idealism" in there. When painting got a bit more gritty (less idealised I suppose), you start getting more pubes.

MegaClutterSlut Thu 24-Oct-13 11:09:14

I shave all mine off when I can be arsed. Not because DH likes it or to look like a porn star and it's definitely not to make myself look like a little girl hmm but because I prefer it that way. I find it's more comfortable without than with pubes grin

I'm not sure it would have been idealised, exactly. It's probably mostly the country of origin. As I said, I regularly see gallery artistic works from all over the world, and lot's of those have pubes. Especially the French and British ones.

WallaceWindsock Thu 24-Oct-13 11:20:34

On the point of paintings and sculptures, as I understand it artists would use prostitutes etc as models to get the main part of he paintings done. They would then scout out a woman with a desirable face to sit for a short period for the facial features or if it was a painting of a lady of social standing they would ask her to sit for a short time and paint her face onto the body they had already painted iyswim? Obviously I don't expect Ladys and Duchesses had nude paintings done but because the practice was to use prostitutes as models for paintings I expect they were painted as seen and would have been hairless for the reasons pp mentioned above.

Just FYI - I also see a lot of paintings that have no nudes in them. Like boats and trees and stuff.

Absy Thu 24-Oct-13 11:33:54

Haha - me too Knight. I don't just stare at naked women when in galleries. I was just noticing them, thanks to MN.

I don't just stare at them. I just see a lot of art as part of my job.

Personally, I prefer the archaic weapons. But nudity seems to feature in a lot of painting FSR. My theory is that the artists don't get laid much, so they obsess about naked women.

I had to have emergency surgery on my bits last week. Hadn't shaved my legs in about two months, pubes were out of control, not even trimmed. I just thought fuckit, I'm a feminist, the important thing here is not HAIR. I'm hairy, move on.

When I was recuperating from the op, the young woman in the next bed was screaming in agony, sobbing uncontrollably, with an ectopic pregnancy. Her mother among many other comforting words hmm berated her for "not even shaving your legs"…the world is truly fucked.

badtime Thu 24-Oct-13 12:05:30

By my understanding, part of the reason for not painting pubic hair was because it was considered too natural and sexual, and paintings were often very idealised and less 'human'. Paintings of bushy women would have caused a scandal in certain times and places, and less hairiness was supposed to look more innocent (or possibly more controlled/tamed).

Heartbrokenmum73 Thu 24-Oct-13 13:13:36

Not going to say what I do with mine grin

However. Have noticed this (on this thread, and the many, many others before it):

1) Some posters attack those who get rid ('you're only doing it for your OH', 'looks like a plucked chicken', 'looks pre-pubescent', etc).

2) Some posters attack those don't get rid ('it's unhygienic', etc).

Unless we're all going to wave our fanjos in each other's faces, wtf does it actually matter? Each to their own and all that.

OK, I've been afraid to give my opinion. But I'll go for it now.

DW had never done really done much with her bush for the last 8yrs. Occasional trimming, but not often. Never really bothered me. I was a little curious as I'd never slept with anyone who did remove there's, and people argue about it so much. But not curious enough to actually want DW to do it, IYSWIM. Plus, she was quite morally against it because of the pre-pubescent arguement.

A few months ago, she suddenly decided to shave it. Said she was curious and wanted to see what it was like. Then she said she preferred it that way, she says it's more comfortable and so has kept doing it since then. So it wasn't me influencing her and she is completely against porn - like, if-I-used-it-she'd-leave-me against it. So not that. She just prefers it for some reason.

From my perspective, she certainly doesn't look any less womanly. You couldn't mistake her full womanly figure for that of any girl. I can't say it feels much different during sex, except that it can get a little sand-papery some times. As for the hygiene arguement - let's be honest, either you wash yourself or you don't. Doesn't really make much difference.

The real difference is during oral sex. I don't need to use one hand to hold the hair aside to get in there now, and you don't get saliva welling up in that mound at the bottom of the triangle. So it does make that much nicer to give. Other than that, it doesn't make lot of difference.

FreudiansSlipper Thu 24-Oct-13 13:29:08

we may not need to get frothy about what people choose do to to their own bodies

but we certainly should about what is influencing young women today, what is expected to be the norm and and where those influences come from

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