AIBU to refuse access to daughter ( long story sorry )

(104 Posts)
lolarose2591 Wed 23-Oct-13 19:09:00

hi , I me and my ex had our daughter when we were v young but made it work. last year I gave birth to a lil boy and whilst being pregnant with him my partner was having an affair with my best friend who happens to be my daughter god mother.

we obviously split up and he has wanted access to my daughter but not my son, I have refused him access as I think this is unfair.

then a few months ago my daughter fell extremely poorly and had to have serious surgery, I rang him and let him and also did let her see him at this time as I thought we were going to lose her . she has still not fully recovered and probably won't but he is still not treating my son the same so have stopped contact until further notice

but I don't know if im being unreasonable to my daughter ?

Louise1956 Wed 23-Oct-13 19:11:02

Why does he not want access to his son? that seems very strange. but I don't think refusing to let him see his daughter will be good for her. is she fond of her father?

Sparklysilversequins Wed 23-Oct-13 19:11:25

I honestly don't know what to say to this except What A Twunt that man must be. What's his reasoning?

lolarose2591 Wed 23-Oct-13 19:13:15

they had a close bond before we split , he makes all kinds of excuses like he didn't bond with him and he misses her because he was a stahd with her. when we first split up he saw neither for 3 months .. hadn't met ds, then he stated he missed her.

Sparklysilversequins Wed 23-Oct-13 19:15:50

It's a tough one alright. It's unfair on both isn't it? If he had a relationship with her, how is your ds going to feel growing up and seeing that he hasn't bothered with him?

I'd be tempted to say both or none too.

Spirulina Wed 23-Oct-13 19:15:56

How old are the children?

lolarose2591 Wed 23-Oct-13 19:18:21

sparkly that is my reasoning , I feel i am choosing which of my children to hurt. the children are 5 and nearly 1.

lunar1 Wed 23-Oct-13 19:20:25

I agree with you, it's both it neither,

lolarose2591 Wed 23-Oct-13 19:22:05

it seems to be i always get made out to be the bad person
" you won't let me see my daughter "
and because i said if he had them both on set days etc i wanted it to be just him for a while not his girlfriend as daughter will get confused , I am also being a cow.

he pays no money towards them etc.

iheartdusty Wed 23-Oct-13 19:24:54

it's a balance - is it worse for the children if;

a) he doesn't see either of them; that will damage his existing relationship with DD and she'll miss out;


b) he only sees DD, and both she and DS grow up knowing that he preferred her over DS, and that she's treated differently. That could damage not only his relationship with both DD and DS but also, over time, their relationship with each other. DD may feel huge guilt and DS may feel huge rejection.

Don't let the siblings be treated differently. I think b) is much worse. Either he shapes up and treats them both the same, or he doesn't see them. Tell him he can send letters and cards provided he sends to both, until he's ready to see both.

Sparklysilversequins Wed 23-Oct-13 19:27:52

I agree, it's the lesser of two very horrible evils. What an arse of a man angry

lolarose2591 Wed 23-Oct-13 19:34:38

I think i have been fair , i have offered him access to both without girlfriend only because daughter is used to her being mummy best friend and aunty and wanted her to adjust to us being apart first.

he tore this family apart, he was all i had since i was 11 and i love him more than anything but i am trying to put that aside for the kids.

when my dd fell sick i thought i was going to lose it and i didn't have anyone , he refused to look after ds so i could go see her.

we bumped in to him and his girlfriend in McDonalds and she ran to my daughter picked her up and was like ahh i miss you so much ( wanted to vomit )

quietlysuggests Wed 23-Oct-13 19:34:46

I think you are utterly wrong and the legal position is that you are wrong.
Your daughter has a bond with her father and you want to cut that to shreds because you are mad at him over something else.
I know you think you are being fair to your son, but he doesn't even know his dad, how is he going to miss him> He wont care.
So, because you are mad at him you will destroy your daughters relationship with her dad.

Why are you even asking if you are being reasonable?
You know you aren't.

lolarose2591 Wed 23-Oct-13 19:39:27

quietly but surely if i said sure see her then i would be being unreasonable to my son ?

WilsonFrickett Wed 23-Oct-13 19:42:17

I kind of agree with quietly although I wouldn't have put it quite as strongly. He has played his own part in destroying his relationship with both his children. However I suspect this is very hard for your DD and her needs do have to come first here.

As always. first question. Have you sorted anything out formally/gone to the CSA?

lolarose2591 Wed 23-Oct-13 19:44:28

Wilson i am in the middle of sorting that out. the thing is I feel guilty what ever I decide.
and it has nothing to do with how angry I am. i offered him to have both of them on set days to build a relationship.
even said he could have her weekends but spend a few hours with son before to build a connection.

WhoNickedMyName Wed 23-Oct-13 19:45:52

Yes YABU to your daughter.

kitsmummy Wed 23-Oct-13 19:48:34

You poor thing, it's a no win situation. I completely disagree with quietlysuggests though - you really think that DS won't care that his dad wanted his sister but not him? Really?

ImperialBlether Wed 23-Oct-13 19:48:35

OP, is your ex the same age as you?

I wonder whether his girlfriend has anything to do with this decision. He sounds so awful - everything he does is worse than the last thing he's done.

Does his girlfriend have children? If so, what's he like with them?

IneedAsockamnesty Wed 23-Oct-13 19:49:33

Oh fuck off is she bur,

She has given him several options to see both kids he's the one acting like a cunt.

kitsmummy Wed 23-Oct-13 19:50:55

I think I fall on the side of both or none. Tbh, your ex sounds such a dick that I expect he's unlikely to keep up contact long term anyway sad

Sparklysilversequins Wed 23-Oct-13 19:51:03

Don't be ridiculous that he won't care! He won't be one forever. That child will grow up seeing his Dad loving his sister but not him. What an awful knowledge to grow up with, how low will his self esteem be? It's one of the most damaging things I have ever heard.

lolarose2591 Wed 23-Oct-13 19:51:51

no imperial she doesn't have any children. he is the same age as me , well i am 19 and his 20.

It is hard to tell about the girlfriend situation tbh because I tend to separate the 2.
she was obviously a big part of daughter life as well , so could see her defiantly wanted to be apart of her life.
my lil man has done nothing wrong, his bubbly and beautiful and doesn't deserve it.

Sparklysilversequins Wed 23-Oct-13 19:53:20

It will cause huge resentment between the siblings also. He will resent her hugely as he gets old enough to realise what's going on "why is my dsis the only one who gets to see OUR Dad?" So another damaged relationship at the hands of one stupid, selfish man.

TwickOrTweasels Wed 23-Oct-13 19:54:07

I think it's both or nothing. It is fucking irrelevant that he hasn't bonded with his son. It's still his son and you can't possibly say he won't care because he doesn't know him confused

So, when DS is 5 and big sis is off to her dads and he asks where his dad is? Wtf is she supposed to say?

He sounds like a proper dickhead. Get some legal advice love x

skylerwhite Wed 23-Oct-13 19:54:20

Have you said he can't see the children if the girlfriend is there?

kangarooshoes Wed 23-Oct-13 19:54:41

My dad saw my sister regularly, and not me, or our other sister. He made all sorts of excuses why, but basically it's because he is immature, and a bit inadequate. I know that now. I didn't know that as a child.

I think you're in the right, both or none. However, I don't think you're in the right if you're saying new woman can't be around when he has them, unless there's protection issues.

GatoradeMeBitch Wed 23-Oct-13 19:54:52

I agree with your stance OP, it's both or neither. He can't play favourites with his kids. If you allow him to keep seeing his daughter but not his son, that little boy has a massive headfuck coming his way in about five years.

I would suggest counselling if you think he would attend. And to be honest, I think you need to set aside the girlfriend thing. At least your daughter knows her. If he is going to have both kids surely it would help to have another adult around? I know it feels awful that the OW gets to be around your kids, but ultimately the main thing is that she's good to them.

lolarose2591 Wed 23-Oct-13 19:55:58

sparkly thank you smile

it is hard because I also don't want daughter to resent my son as in blaming him either.
I let him when daughter was really poorly and i knew she needed her dad , apart of me hoped it would make him bond with fras.

he was a stahd and i will not lie and say he was awful and this and that because actually we went through a lot to fight for our family and daughter and he was v hands on with her ok sometimes a bit lazy but that was no reason to hate on him at all.

needaholidaynow Wed 23-Oct-13 19:57:33

I could understand if one of the children was just his stepchild, but with them both being his children he can't see one without the other!

lolarose2591 Wed 23-Oct-13 19:58:57

no basically the agreement for the girlfriend was at followed ( i will explain a lil )

me and her grew up together, she needed a place to stay for a few months and i allowed her to stay in my home as she already was a massive part of ours and daughters life's. when we originally split up they got a place together and had not seen either children in 3 months.
then it was kind off hit and miss because of the son issues. I told him at first , i would like him to only have the children for the following reasons... he needed to re bond ... they are not exactly in a solid stable relationship. when they show me they are serious and that he is bonding with his kids then there is nothing i can do about it.

Strumpetron Wed 23-Oct-13 19:59:45

You should let him see his daughter.

He's being an utter bastard and I completely understand your reasoning, but I think if he wants to see her he should.

Sparklysilversequins Wed 23-Oct-13 20:00:25

And what about his son?

skylerwhite Wed 23-Oct-13 20:00:33

I think you need to let the girlfriend thing go, you can't dictate who is there when he has the children.

YANBU about seeing both children, though.

You poor thing.

He can't pick and mix his dc. What a twat.

lolarose2591 Wed 23-Oct-13 20:07:57

just to state i am not saying " no girlfriend " i just want the best option for my children at the moment.

kangarooshoes Wed 23-Oct-13 20:08:35

Your reason for objecting to girlfriend isn't valid, sorry. A good father would want time alone to get to know his kids, but he isn't one, and you can't dictate what happens in his time with the kids.

You are right about him needing to have both. Perhaps he's worried about having two kids at once (I know, he's being pathetic...), could he have one one day, and the other the next, to get to know them both again as individuals?

zippey Wed 23-Oct-13 20:11:24

Its a tough one, but if I were in your shoes I would say the same - its all or nothing.

The problem with that may be how he treats DS when you are not there.

skylerwhite Wed 23-Oct-13 20:12:06

Well, from what you have posted, you are saying 'no girlfriend'. I think you need to pick your battles.

lolarose2591 Wed 23-Oct-13 20:18:28

im missing the point of the girlfriend , i am not saying she can never see the kids or be apart of there lifes etc i just want to make sure they r stable , they literally moved in with eachother the day we broke up, and have been on and off ever since. i wouldn't do it so why should he.
if he saw my son and daughter on set days which was agreed and they bonded and then she can slowly bond.

anyway whether or not she is apart of my daughters life or not, I am just trying to work out how to explain this to children,

GatoradeMeBitch Wed 23-Oct-13 20:19:04

I had the same thought as zippey... However badly your friend betrayed you, your ex seems to have a problem with his son, and it may be a very good thing to have another adult there while he builds a bond with him. I would be more afraid for him to have the baby alone. At least your ex friend sounds like she's fond of kids?

GatoradeMeBitch Wed 23-Oct-13 20:20:03

Your daughter can continue to see her as your friend, and daddy's friend. A young child won't be too curious.

lolarose2591 Wed 23-Oct-13 20:20:10

kangaroo, i offered him to have si from Friday night until Saturday night without fras as his still little, but if he would see fras take them out to dinner or something before him and si leave on the Friday.

kangarooshoes Wed 23-Oct-13 20:21:06

No. You cannot dictate what he does, who he sees, with his time with the kids, unless there are safeguarding issues.

You may not do it if you had a new partner, because you're a good parent, but that's not something you can control from his end.

You are right on the he must see both or neither point, but you cannot say no girlfriend. Sorry.

WhoNickedMyName Wed 23-Oct-13 20:21:24

It's a really tough one but I think by stopping him seeing his DD you are allowing him to be the 'victim' in this... The guy whose psycho ex is stopping him seeing his much loved child.

You're also setting yourself up for this to backfire on you in the future when your DD finds out her dad wanted to see her, and you stopped him.

How old is your DS?

I'd go with allowing him to have contact for now. If anyone asks you why he sees DD and not DS then tell them the truth. And let him know people are asking and you're telling them. Also explain to him that when your DD asks why daddy doesn't see her brother you'll be sending her to him to answer that question.

Depending on how old your DS is I'd play it like that for now, and see if he starts to show any interest in seeing DS too.

lolarose2591 Wed 23-Oct-13 20:24:16

tbh i lost the battle of the girlfriend anyway lol if they turned up 2moro and wanted both of them i would say yes if i was happy or not ( i just wouldnt be happy about it lol ) even when my daughter was in hospital she came doesn't mean i have to be happy about it.
my ds is 1 next week.

IneedAsockamnesty Wed 23-Oct-13 20:29:16

Actually you can say no girlfriend, it would be up to him to go to court and the court will not always agree with the he can see whoever he wants with the kids stance.

Most of the time they will agree with him but not always and face it he's not going to present himself very well with his I can't be arsed to see one of the kids.

I know they don't always take that stance because I have a court order prohibiting one of my teenagers dads from having his gf around him.

viperslast Wed 23-Oct-13 20:31:39

I suspect, if this was in family court, you would be told lay off the gf (actually I know that). However I do suspect that you could argue he is damaging his daughter by excluding his son. I think a court would agree with that. I also think cafcass would agree. You don't get to pick and choose and cause pain and suffering by doing that.

As for how you tell the dc I would not mention the situation in detail just that he isn't able to be a proper father right now but that you hope that changes in the future.

DontPanicMrMannering Wed 23-Oct-13 20:34:53

What terrible attitude whonickedmyname!

She is the mother there to protect her children as much as she can, she shouldn't let him fuck up her DSs head just so he gets the blame in the future shock

Op you are absolutely not BU. Your DS would be far more damaged by being excluded than your DD will be by losing touch with a man who is so horrible.

Not to be harsh but at 5 she'll forget all but the barest of memories of him in time. Better that than a life screwed by sibling guilt.

FreeWoooooooo Wed 23-Oct-13 20:38:01

Who's fault is it he hasn't bonded with his son? His for having an affair while you were pregnant. He needs to bond with his son so you are right to push this fact. I'd be in the both or nothing camp as whilst it's hard on your daughter, explaining to your son in future years why his dad didn't want to see him but only his sister will be harder. I'd get professional advice though.

FraidyCat Wed 23-Oct-13 20:38:14

Am I (almost) the only one who thinks OP doesn't have any legal right to decide whether the father gets to see (one of) his children?

In theory at least, this choice isn't an option she actually has?

FreeWoooooooo Wed 23-Oct-13 20:38:20


musicmadness Wed 23-Oct-13 20:40:01

Honestly I think this is a bit no win for you.

Firstly forget about the girlfriend, as long as there aren't safeguarding issues you can't block contact just because she is there.

Obvious reasons why this is totally unfair on your son but from your daughters point of view if you stop contact you have stopped her seeing her father and it is all your fault, you could end up irreparably damaging your relationship with her. If she links her brother with her parents splitting up (I've seen it happen before with very similar ages - and the damage has lasted to late teens and is still ongoing), you could also end up jeopardizing their sibling relationship.

I think as your son is only 1 (and therefore won't understand either way at the moment), I'd allow him access to your daughter and keep trying to make him build a relationship with your son. Either he will realise he has made a huge mistake as he sees your son getting older, or he will decide it's too much hassle and will leave (but at least this won't be you blocking contact).

If it gets to the point where he is still being a total dick and your son is starting to notice the decision might have to be revisited but that is probably at least a couple of years away and at the moment I think helping your daughter through this as painlessly as possible is the priority - she is the one old enough to realise what is going on and has more potential to get hurt at the moment than your son.

lolarose2591 Wed 23-Oct-13 20:40:16

sorry was just reading through some of the posts i missed , i can see a couple think i am doing this because i am angry.

of course I am angry ! they were sleeping with eachother under my nose , a best friend of 10 years and a long term partner , defo not unreasonable. so yes I am angry and i know some mums who would be bitter and stop him seeing her children as revenge. I am not doing this at all !

i found out about them because i went in to labour and had to send my oh mate around looking for him because his phone was off and he was at home with her !
and yh i do love him and hate him at the same time.

my life has been upside down ever since, but all i want is for us to come to an agreement where its fair and that both children have 2 parents who love them and want to spend time with them.

zookeeper Wed 23-Oct-13 20:40:17

I think you should let your dd see him and in time hopefully he will want to to see ds

Altinkum Wed 23-Oct-13 20:41:08

No I don't think YABU, you need to think about the future implications this will have on your children.

He doesn't know his son because he chooses not too, I personally couldn't and wouldn't allow a absent father to continue treating his children differently, and acting as if one does not exist!

The multitude of problems this could cause to both children is a risk that I would not allow.

legally speaking, I don't think a judge would warrant a parent only choosing to see one child, any decent judge would look into the whole situation.

needaholidaynow Wed 23-Oct-13 20:42:16

He's going to be one messed up child in the future that little boy. The law doesn't give a shit as long as the other child is ok and has a nice relationship with her dad.

lolarose2591 Wed 23-Oct-13 20:44:35

see this is the thing i know my son is only 1 and doesn't understand but it really does break my heart that someone so innocent in all of it is the one getting punished.

well as for court, he has stated he is taking me to court over si, not fras but I am putting the full account across to them and my reasons for preventing contact.

needaholidaynow Wed 23-Oct-13 20:46:28

It would break my heart too OP sad

Nottalotta Wed 23-Oct-13 20:50:08

Yanbu. He is. He should see BOTH of his children.

BrianTheMole Wed 23-Oct-13 20:51:28

He sounds like a cunt op. Lucky escape for you. Personally I would say both children or nothing. With the girl friend thing, i'd probably let her be involved tbh. Your dd knows her and I assume likes her, presumably she can be trusted with the kids even if she wasn't a trustworthy friend.

badbride Wed 23-Oct-13 20:53:36

OP, you write: the children are 5 and nearly 1. and well i am 19 and his 20.

If this is right, then you must have have been just 14 years old when your eldest child was born?

I am not a lawyer, and so don't know what a family court's attitude would be towards a man who had been in a sexual relationship with a girl under the age of consent, even if he himself was underage at the time. But if you were under 13 when it began, I think a court would view it very seriously.

Have you got family and friends supporting you? It sounds like you are in a very difficult situation.

lolarose2591 Wed 23-Oct-13 20:59:13

bad bride i was 14 and him 15 when i had si, but tbh i wouldn't like to use that against him as it was a mutual relationship very much in love well as much as u think you are at 13 lol

lolarose2591 Wed 23-Oct-13 21:00:53

and no not really many people, he was my family and all my friends don't have a clue lol all childless and i think sometimes a lot of the older people are kind of like our relationship wasn't real anyway because we were young.

badbride Wed 23-Oct-13 21:10:46

Thanks for clarifying, Lolarose. I didn't want to suggest that you automatically use it against him, I just did the maths and was a bit worried for you.

Can your health visitor/ GP advise you about relationship mediation services you could access? Mediation could perhaps help you and your children's father find a way forward: the courts are not necessarily the best way to solve this, at least, not until you have exhausted all other avenues. I wish you the best of luck.

WhoNickedMyName Wed 23-Oct-13 21:10:46

Do you have any kind of contact or relationship with his parents/family? What do they think if him not wanting to see his DS? Any chance of getting them to try and talk some sense into him?

lolarose2591 Wed 23-Oct-13 21:21:19

i speak to his foster mum , but she hasn't been able to make any sense from him.

badbride Wed 23-Oct-13 21:21:30

I'm flabbergasted that some people are regarding your relationship as "not real", Lola. In your shoes I would be pointedly asking them where on Earth they think your children came from. A stork delivery? FGS.

lolarose2591 Wed 23-Oct-13 21:23:32

lol bad bride,
i think as we were so young it was seen as like a school romance , no 1 believed we were going to last.
was like there lost kids who had something in common. not sure anyone blinked an eye when he cheated.

KirjavaTheCorpse Wed 23-Oct-13 21:26:15

He sounds as though he didn't mature much past 15 years old. Of course he should see both of his children.

The one year old won't know any different? He will, when he's no longer one hmm, what an odd attitude. You're right to be cautious about the lopsided contact. If I were you I'd be as obstructive as possible until he could do something in court, in the interests of both my children's mental health. What a tosser.

WilsonFrickett Wed 23-Oct-13 21:31:15

If he's threatening to take you to court, then let him. It's what you want, tbh. A judge is going to order joint contact, ie both children, or none. The judge won't let him cherry pick.

MoominsYonisAreScary Wed 23-Oct-13 21:32:02

No way would he see one of my children without the other unless there was a court order forcing it.

What an utter shit

lolarose2591 Wed 23-Oct-13 21:42:48

yh i am not forcing court , i have left it to him. if it is what he really wants then he will fight for it.

another thing is with my daughter illness he needs to take the time to learn about how to cope aswell before over night stays. he had her one night after she was out of hospital and fed her a mars bar !! she is tpe 1 diabetic and has no pancreas so doesn't produce enzymes. I just want to ensure everything is in place x

balia Wed 23-Oct-13 21:46:04

I think you're both being unreasonable, TBH. Using/restricting access unless 'demands' are met (obvs not if there are safety issues etc) is just wrong. And it goes without saying that he has behaved in a disgraceful way. But if you reinstate contact with your DD the situation is likely to get much less fraught and unpleasant and you might be able to move forward on the issue of bonding with his son.

What about mediation? You could talk through the issues with an impartial 3rd party, it might help. Sounds like you have had an unbelievably difficult time and you need some support.

And I'd be very careful about advice such as 'just let him take you to court'. It is unbelievably stressful, you won't get legal aid, and you will be bound by a contact order but he won't (eg there's nothing you can do if he decides not to turn up).

KirjavaTheCorpse Wed 23-Oct-13 21:46:44

angry Then that makes him a fucking idiot as well as a tosser. He's clearly incapable of looking after your daughter's basic needs.

Let him do the running.

needaholidaynow Wed 23-Oct-13 21:48:16

If the children were with different mums, then obviously the dad would be getting slaughtered for choosing not to see one of those children but seeing the other one.

But because the children have the same mum it's suddenly ok to see one child and not the other? Are some people seriously suggesting it is ok?

lolarose2591 Wed 23-Oct-13 21:49:52

i am staying strong until demands are met, the only demand i want meeting is he gives my son a chance. i can teach him about the meds etc he can come in to my house if he wants.

lol kirjava he is a bit of a to sser ... don't know how i didn't see it before !

lolarose2591 Wed 23-Oct-13 21:51:00

needaholidaynow apparently so.

if i had come on and asked was i being unreasonable for only wanting to see one of my children because i didn't really bond with the 2nd id be slaughtered.

badbride Wed 23-Oct-13 21:52:17

I'm going to contradict some of the other posters and suggest that going straight to court may not be the best way to fix this. The law can be a very blunt instrument for dealing with difficult situations like this. It is also extremely stressful and can take a long time. You also need to be sure that you are getting GOOD legal advice and representation, otherwise you could end up facing a court order that is not what you really wanted.

Far better, if possible, to try to negotiate a solution first (which you then formalise legally). It may be that feelings are running too high at the moment for that to happen: you are heartbroken and livid, he is possibly feeling guilty/ resentful. And then there's the reason why he is refusing to see his son: I have no idea why, but there is clearly something going on. A court order is not going to fix whatever it is.

My advice would be: first, look after yourself . You are dealing with the trauma of a relationship breakdown--this is incredibly stressful for anyone of any age--and you need some time to deal with it.

Second, get advice from organisations that can help you try to negotiate a solution about your children's contact with their father. An organisation called Gingerbread may be a good place to start: see their advice website here:

And make sure you surround yourself with friends and other people who can help you. I hope it all goes well for you.

needaholidaynow Wed 23-Oct-13 21:52:24

I know, it's fucking bonkers and the double standards on here sometimes are shocking.

Thisfuckerisaeuphemism Wed 23-Oct-13 22:11:44

Imagine any parent saying they're only going to look after one of their kids!
Its utterly outrageous. And that's besides the fact he ran off with her best friend and doesn't support them.

HildaOgden Wed 23-Oct-13 22:20:18

I'd get proper legal advice,and send him an official letter offering reasonable access to both children.

Then let him reply stating he only wants access to one of them.

Then I'd bring that to court and let the judge clearly see what a fucker neglectful parent your ex truly is.

For what it's worth,I really admire your maturity in dealing with such a horrible situation.I really hope it works out well for you and your kids,you all definitely deserve better than that deadbeat.

WilsonFrickett Wed 23-Oct-13 22:23:36

I don't think anyone has said the XP is reasonable actually. Everyone thinks he's a prick, it's pretty much unanimous. What some posters have said though is it isn't about the XP, it's about the best interests of the children. ATM it may be in the DD's best interests to see her F. That's all.

It's a horrendous situation though and OP fwiw I think you are trying to do the best you can with a shitty set of circumstances.

iheartdusty Wed 23-Oct-13 22:31:14

as I said above, I really strongly feel that it's both or neither.

but I don't agree that OP should immediately offer direct contact to both.

How will her ex treat little DS, if he doesn't really want to see him?

I think OP should send an official letter offering supervised contact at a contact centre to both, because of the very significant risk that ex will cause emotional harm to DC through neglecting DS in favour of DD, and because DS does not know him at all and is very young and vulnerable indeed.

ThePinkOcelot Wed 23-Oct-13 22:40:33

YADNBU! What an arsehole. I can't believe some posters think that this is okay!

needaholidaynow Wed 23-Oct-13 22:42:45

The best interests of the children would be to not create sibling rivalry and to keep things balanced instead of making the children think that one child is more important and loved than the other.

If its I the best interests of the DD to carry on seeing her dad, then how long will that carry on for where she sees him on her own without her brother? 6 months? A year? 3 or 4 years? It won't be long before her brother sees her going off visiting their dad and wondering why he can't go as well.

It's really not as simple as being in the DD's best interests anymore. There are now two children in the family, not just the one. They are siblings, and the dad cannot just choose to see his oldest child and not his youngest. It doesn't work like that. It's all or nothing.

Retroformica Wed 23-Oct-13 23:20:23

Unless he is an abusive man, you need to encourage a relationship with both kids. He need time to bond with boy and opportunities.

lolarose2591 Wed 23-Oct-13 23:53:24

thank you for all the advice and support. I do deep down believe i am doing what is right in the long term. I would never put a barrier between him and the children without reason , if i had my way it would be 50/50 and would love for both my children to be bought up by 2 parents as i know how it feels not to.

for now I am going to refuse him contact unless he choices to decide he want to at least attempt contact with both. If we end up in court then i will argue that it is not in the best interest of either child to be in that situation.

i don't want to come across bitter and angry , and although yes I am angry at him and hate what he did to us i would never let that dictate what he is like as a father and do hope that one day , he will see sense and see that his son needs him as much as my daughter.

fourbythree Thu 24-Oct-13 00:41:43

It might be that he's a bit overwhelmed at the thought of having a poorly 5 year old and a 1 year old in his care at the same time - that's quite a responsibility for a 20 yr old ( I know you cope - but you rock :-) )
I wonder if instead of getting defensive And pushing it to court you could try and think of ways he could get to know his son? Maybe suggest he takes him for an hour or 2 on their own?
I know what happened with him and your friend is awful and you must feel very betrayed and hurt- but I think you need to be the mature one here and see that the gf bring involved might actually be beneficial to your children - she clearly had a connection with them through her years of knowing you - and it may be that she can bring a bit of understanding about your daughters medical needs.
I think the most urgent thing you need to go is to get your diabetes nurse specialist to contact your ex to make time to go through her plan of care. He needs to fully understand her medical needs so he can look after her safely.

lolarose2591 Thu 24-Oct-13 00:45:20

hey fourbythree , i know what you mean and that's what i have tried , saying he can even be at mine for a couple of hours on a firday with my ds and then take daughter after without him, until his bonded and comfortable. if there is any suggestions on how to try and get contact started without court i would defo try smile

MoominsYonisAreScary Thu 24-Oct-13 00:51:02

I dont think you could be any more reasonable towards him, evrything you suggest regarding your son is met by a no from him.

Dont see how in the long term him seeing one without the other would work without causing jealousy and resentment

lolarose2591 Thu 24-Oct-13 01:09:45

im going to give it one more shot , by inviting them to ds bday next week , if he makes no effort then i will leave it in his ball court regarding what he decides smile

Chakkarollo Thu 24-Oct-13 01:16:55

I was bought up a bit like that and my mother seriously regrets her behavior now and wishes we had more access to our father at the time.I wish I had more contact with my father aswell .I felt my father never really cared but it wasn't entirely his fault

lolarose2591 Thu 24-Oct-13 01:19:33

chakarollo , what part did you think was your mums fault and what behaviour ?

lessonsintightropes Thu 24-Oct-13 01:23:40

Oh lolarose I think you are in a non-win situation here, and a pretty shitty one at that. Sorry, this is not a nice place to be.

I think on balance like PP it might cause longer term problems with your DD if you refuse access. Whatever the situation with your son, he does have the right I think to try and have a relationship with her, and it would muck up your mum/daughter bond later on if you didn't allow him access.

It's messier with the inclusion of the 'friend/girlfriend' though and I can completely understand what a cow you think she is (or I would anyway) but if your DD knows and likes her sadly it might be happier all around for their relationship to continue.

However, your ex DP really needs to sort out his hideous attitude to his son and you should (IMO) use whatever social pressure is at your command to get him to play an active part. If I was in your situation I would try and make him feel guilty about not being involved in his life when he is, in the life of his sister. If you can get him to reflect on this it might help.

You sound like someone who is really sorted out and mature and trying to do the best you can when other people around you aren't - the best of luck to you and your lovely kids are lucky to have you.

lolarose2591 Thu 24-Oct-13 01:31:10

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Chakkarollo Thu 24-Oct-13 01:43:46

lolarose my mother was a bit naughty by saying to my dad it was not possible to see me at many times which was not entirely true.My mother made it difficult for my father to see me .That's what i mean by her behavior.It's hard to comment on your personal situation because we don't know the father .If he was a total out of it then fair enough etc..

DoubleLifeIsForAnyFUCKER Thu 24-Oct-13 01:49:20

Horrible situation and really hard to change as you can't make him be a good person, no matter how much he should be.

Btw, you're using the names of your children in your posts, are you sure that's a good idea? We normally use ds/ dd to keep it anonymous, of you want to change it I'm sure mumsnet would change it for you...

thegoldenfool Thu 24-Oct-13 07:30:25

i think although DDs relationship with her dad is important, her relationship with her brother is just as important, and the example that it will set about how to behave by ignoring your DS means that you are doing the best of a bad job but letting him only see both or none.

It´s not like he is showing himself to be a stable influence in the future sad

wonderingsoul Thu 24-Oct-13 07:53:51

ynbu its ethier both or non at all.

for thouse who says its unfair on dd.. what about the ds.. and the relationship between dd and ds...

the op has even said he can see dd one the weekend long as he sees ds for a few hours to build a relationship, (before having him at the weekend to i hope) i dont think she can get fair than that.

moreyear Thu 24-Oct-13 08:06:23

What a horrid, vile person he must be to treat your son in this manner Lola. Has he spent any time with him at all?

I hope for your children's sake he begins to act in a more responsible and nurturing manner but until he does I can completely understand why you want to act in this way. It must absolutely break your heart.

And if your son is one in a week it will only be a very short time before he will be able to recognise what is happening. My 15 month old screams like an angry Pterodactyl when my 2 1/2 year old is taken to playschool a couple of mornings a week. She is certainly aware if her brother is going out without her.

GetOrfMoiLandFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 08:20:12

Oh bless you OP. It all sounds a nightmare, I don't blame you for being upset about the whole thing. Plus you have the worry of your daughter being type 1 diabetic and having to manage that for her.

It's a real shame that you have little real life support. The fact that your XP you classed as your family, and also a best friend of 10 years, it must feel like an enormous blow. You have an awful lot on your plate. Wish someone was there to be a shoulder to cry on!

I think it is very unfair for him not to what to see his son. I actually think you're in the right in wanting him to take them both and well done for persevering with it. However, as hurtful and hateful it must be, I think you should forget about keeping your children away from his girlfriend. I know it goes against every instinct you have, however I think it might be best to pick your battles - if you give way on that point it may well be easier for you to encourage him to take your son and get to know him. Oh what an arse he is to have to be persuaded.

I hope he comes to the party and perhaps he will reconsider.

And the bitterness and anger will go in time, and the feeling of hurt. You have a lot to deal with for someone so young but you come across very well on here so you should be proud that you have managed to keep it all together in what has been a very stressful time for you.

lolarose2591 Thu 24-Oct-13 08:57:33

moreyear, he has spent no time with him , from not being at the birth ( ok this was kind of my fault in a way ) too not coming in the house and meeting daughter downstairs instead.

getormoil - my daughter hasn't only got diabetes this is why I let him in the first place was because she fell extremely sick and had to have her pancreas, gall bladder, part of her stomach. part of her small intestine and spleen removed which has left her with diabetes, doesn't produce enzymes and prone to infections. I knew she needed her dad at this time and I also wanted him there. In this time he still refused to care for ds. I just really don't understand it , the only thing I can think of is guilt ! that he feels guilty at what he done when I was pregnant with him.

I am also worried that if I force it or do all the persuaded it will always be a resented relationship if that makes sense ?

RedHelenB Thu 24-Oct-13 09:34:48

I had a very similar situation & said all or none. He chose all but ALWAYS with OW in tow so I think YAB a bit U to force that issue & so would most courts.

I think it is guilt & the reminder to OW that you were obviously still having sexual relations when they were having their affair. My ds was wanted & planned but he didn't see him for over a year, until I forced the issue. Positives are they have a relationship now but nothing like the father/son relationship they could have.

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