To suggest ds being moved away from a certain child in class(88 Posts)
Advice needed from more experiences parents please
Ds is 5 and in year 1 of school. In reception we had no problems with any other children, we know there are some that misbehave more then others but that's children.
He has obviously moved teachers now and since being in year 1 they have 'assigned seating'. It seems like she changed the tables around a bit the first few weeks I'm guessing to establish which kids sit and work well together or to move friends so they don't mess around etc.
I don't overreact so when ds has come home and said that this particular child - lets called him 'Damien' () has pushed him over today - I cuddle him, talk about it and we let it go. The next week Damien hit him and told ds he hated him but ds also told me that Damien got sent to the office for this. Since then it has been 1-2 times a week of pushing, stabbing in the arm with a pencil!!! And yesterday ds had black felt tip all over the back of his sweater - Damien again! I found out that poor ds has had to sit next to Damien every day - probably why this is occurring so often.
It's parents evening tomorrow - Aibu to being this up with teacher?
Sorry for crap spelling - bloody phone!
Not unreasonable at all! Though I'm always of the opinion that communicating concerns with the school is always reasonable. Work with them!
absolutely not. if your DS is well behaved then this is why they sit the naughty child next to him. ask for one of them to be moved. I know someone has to sit next to him but it doesn't have to be your child every day does it. DS had this and it went on for 6 months. lost her confidence and enjoyment in school. I kept leaving it for the teacher to sort out but because other parents had kicked off about this child and I hadn't mine was the one sat next to her. stabbing in the arm is assault and the school should not tolerate this at all.
YANBU I would definitely ask for him to be moved if it were my child.
I am a teacher and I would far rather a parent told me about what was happening than just demaning that a child is moved, I then as a professional can take the best course of action.
YANBu tell them what is happening ask for your son to be moved asap I think the teacher has had long enough to decide they dont work sitting together,
I had to speak with my dc teacher last week about being moved away from another child. This child keeps calling my dc a f...ing c...t of which I find totally unacceptable in a primary school. So no you are not BU to request this and I must say that the teacher has been brilliant in working on this together.
My dc was really scared to even tell me the language that was used, and the cuddles came in handy when he finally told me.
Thank you for the replies.
DS is my 1st and currently only child and I worried I was making a fuss.
Ds I'm sure isn't perfect but I'm not deluded, I know that he's not perfect - there's no such thing!
I do know for a fact however that this child gets sent to the office for these types of offences all the time.
Ds has come home today and told me that one of his poor friends got punched really hard in the chest by Damien today.
Ds is very confident and doesn't get upset by other peoples actions easily so at the moment he isn't 'distraught' by what is going on but I don't want him to get to that point!
By the way I am very careful not to react with him and put ideas in his head by saying 'what has Damien done today' - I always just say 'how was your day' and he tells me.
Riceandp - how old is this child!?! It doesn't really matter I suppose but primary school age with that language!
Makes me worry what that child has to listen to at home.
you are not over reacting the little boy is obviously a bit naughty and your son doesn't need to be with him every day it isn't fair and also you don't want your son joining in with him do you , no no child is perfectly behaved all the time we all know our dc and your son deserves not to be poked and prodded speak to the teacher
YANBU to mention it and say that you are concerned about the number of incidents that have occurred, but this child has to sit next to someone.
I'd ask for their plan of how they are going to prevent it happening rather than ask if your child can be moved. That never comes across well to teachers who are aware there is a problem but they still have to deal with it somehow without completely isolating a 5/6 year old child.
If you don't see an improvement then go to the head. Sometimes it takes complaints from parents to make them do anything, because teachers complaining to the head doesn't always have as much impact on heads.
I'd mention that he's getting a bit upset by it.
AbsolutelyNBU - try the teacher first and then if she is ineffective go to the Head. Make sure you keep a note of the things that have happened to your DS so they recognise you are taking this very seriously.
YANBU. It's not fair how kids are allowed to keep hurting other kids although in this case they are very little, in my experience the same ones hitting out in reception are the ones doing it age 11. My son's class was ruined by two disruptive, violent and racist boys. My son was bullied over his disability and girls were called crack whores and prostitutes. When it gets to that level they should find another place of education for them. They should also intervene quicker at a younger age. If it was my child I would insist on moving. In the end my kids did karate and learnt to hit back against the bullies and this helped. Although that was with 11 year olds so not appropriate in your case.
Jellybean that's awful.
This is just one child. There are some others that misbehave but this one in particular is really badly behaved.
I hope the teacher is open to listening as I haven't had any one on one time with her before.
After one parents' evening the boy I sat next to in my English class got moved away. His parents had said I had been distracting him from the lessons and that was why he was struggling.
I still feel a bit guilty about that, mainly because it was almost certainly true. Definitely bring it up, YANBU, the teacher may well not do anything as someone has to sit next to Damien, but at least you have raised your concerns.
Jellybeans - not sure learning a martial art in order to hit back is ideal... "But he hit me first" never got me out of any trouble at school.
YANBU, definitely not.
DD (also 5) was seated next to the naughtiest boy. Agree with the poster who says it is because your DS is well behaved, they put the cleverer ones and better behaved ones next to the worst behaved, less bright ones to try and bring the naughty ones along.
It is not fair.
I complained and got my DD moved next to another lovely little girl.
You won't have a problema, I am sure, the next poor child will though!
I'd definitely mention it to the teacher, not fair on your son.
YANBU, although I'm sure the school will be working with the other child's parents due to his behaviour but they aren't dealing with it and protecting your DS well. I'd also ask for a move.
I am betting the reason why he has beens stuck next to your DS for so long is that all the other parents have already been in to complain!!
Asking for your child to be moved away from a child who is bothering him is perfectly reasonable. In a head of year and regularly have parents who ask this and it is never a problem x
I would take in the jumper, just to make your point.
As a teacher I can say its not unreasonable at all, just mention the incidents that have occurred and say that is your basis for not being comfortable with your boy being sat near him any more. It will be fine.
Please do speak to teacher first, personally I hate it when parents go over me and straight to the Head rather than giving me the chance to sort out issues in my class first.
Yes, speak to the teacher. Express your concerns and let them make the decisions as to the best course of action.
If your ds is hurt again speak to the teacher. Every single time. "Ds told me this happened today, can you tell me about it?" is a good way to phrase it.
If it doesn't stop, you will have to take it up with the head.
I've complained about a !friendship' that was detrimental to my child. The teachers agreed I ad a point and separated the children. All was well once again.
Thanks again for advice.
I definitely wouldn't go straight to the head teacher - like I said I have tried to be fair and have given the teacher plenty of time I think but the problems still keep occurring.
I'm not doing a 'my child is perfect' dance but I do agree that maybe poor ds has now been stuck with him because he is so laid back and I phased by this behaviour where as others I think have had their parents speak to the teacher straight away.
I know this Damien for a fact hurts other children a lot but my ds is just so close to him he is the obvious object of the 'bullying'.
That said from what ds has told me they do take steps to deal with as he is apparently always sent to the office, his mum is always being called over when we collect them for a 'chat' and they have a traffic light system in class - apparently he is always on amber or red.
I do feel terrible that it will then be another child's problem but I have to put my ds 1st.
how well I remember sitting next to the class bully - his name was Rodney, he tormented me daily and chased me home from school. It never occurred to me to tell anybody but one day the teacher saw him punching me under the desk. he was hauled to the front of the class and given a good slap on the legs - yes it was that long ago! He never did it again.
sometimes as parents we may have to step in and try to resolve a certain situation and this is one of those situations, not long ago a similar thing happened to my dd, though the boy was'nt agressive or nasty just a bit over excitable and as both were of the same ability they were always put together even when they moved up a year, it got to a point where she was really down and said to me that she liked him but found him a bit much at times. I had a quiet word with her teacher who understood and said she would be moving the class around every couple of weeks to make it fair.
tell the teacher and nicely but firmly tell her you want your child moved.
tell your son to shout really loudly if this kid hurts him, something like 'LEAVE ME ALONE' it will shock the other child and attract attention.
I am afraid that if this child is always pushing children one of them will eventually hit him back harder.
sorry but that works a treat.
I don't understand why the boy has to sit next to anyone. My son has ASD and has his own table in the class. He tends to hit out when frustrated and this solution works for all. He is calmer, nobody gets hurt and the teacher can get on with teaching. He does also have a space at one of the other tables and can choose to sit there if he is calm and focussed.
The last few weeks he has hardly used his table and is enjoying being part of the group. No incidents of hurting other children either.
Is it a big class size? Is your ds getting a bit ignored by the teacher if it is busy? Is there a TA you could talk to as well? They might know more and keep an eye out for you.
The class has 30 children.
Every class has a teacher and TA.
I knew this child had problems but until he started sitting next to ds every day it wasn't really a problem as I just heard the odd thing.
I even (begrudgingly) went on a play date with Damien, his mum and my ds to one of those awful soft play things in January. She kept asking and I could no longer say I was busy and I know that some mums like to make friends with the others.
She did mention then in passing that the teacher at the time 'kept saying there were issues' but she thinks that he is only 5 and they need to learn to watch them better or something (alarm bells ).
It looks like it might be one of those unaware parent situations.
Sorry i'm lmao at the name 'Damien' what is a freudian slip op? :-)
I used to regularly move kids around to give combinations a break from each other if needs be and would want to be told what was going on... the only thing I'd probably say would be "give me a couple of days to move a few people around in one go so it's not really obvious what's going on" - rather than just suddenly swapping two kids over and it being blindingly obvious to all concerned what's gone off, I always tended to have periodic move arounds of a few people in one go.
Was it a freudian slip, not what is [ blush ]
Darn cant get these smilies right.
Thanks whistleblower - no offence to anyone who has a ds or family member called Damien.
I just used it based on the child from only fools and horses.
'jellybeans - not sure learning a martial art in order to hit back is ideal... "But he hit me first" never got me out of any trouble at school'.
We tried telling school etc etc, tried the 'proper routes' but they had a 'no blame' policy where the bully is not told off at all. The victim is meant to 'work it out' with the abuser (look it up it is an awful but popular policy).
This wasn't just pushing and shoving but sustained assault, son punched 3 times in the head in one day. pencil pushed into his surgical wound , strangled, kicked in the chest, stamped on etc. I'm sorry but if your child goes through that and you have tried the proper channels then you have to change tack.
As it happens, standing up for himself and hitting back along with knowing some big scary teenage boys got him off my son's back. My son's and daughters (they all do karate) are not punchbags and would never start a fight, but if someone hits them then they have every right to fight back/hit back/defend. Nothing will change my view on this. Unless bullies are dealt with more harshly. Violent kids should be kicked out.
jellybeans,, totally agree.
afraid my 4 have been told hit if you are hit first and hit back harder.
because it works. and I would too.
not sure some posters actually in the secondary system yet!
It's such a hard balance - I want to tell him to just punch the little bastard but the last thing I want is for my ds at this stage and young age to learn that
I will give you an update after parents evening.
I am prepared, I know what I'm going to say thanks to all the great advice.
You are not making a fuss, I am a teacher of KS1 and I would be very concerned about this. I would definitely do something about it. Good luck at parent's evening.
been there and its always best to sort it now. Ask them to separate your child from the little monster. I just hope the monster's parents are being told about this. Cos my DD's tormentor's mum had no idea!!
Quite sad in a way that this is becoming so commonplace in schools, and with very young children as well.
you have to wonder where all the aggression comes from at such a young age..
Do you really think fighting and pushing is becoming more commonplace in schools than it used to be, Whistleblower?
My memories of a Sixties childhood is that there was fighting and bullying in the playground every day- just that nobody paid any attention because you didn't think anyone could do anything about it. Tough if (like me) you were the victim. My dad has similar memories from the Thirties.
The main difference is that these days schools are supposed to have an anti-bullying policy and are expected to do something about it.
thebody Tue 22-Oct-13 22:16:55
jellybeans,, totally agree.
"afraid my 4 have been told hit if you are hit first and hit back harder."
What if you can't hit harder than the other child because they are bigger and stronger than you?
Genuine question- ds was always the smallest and weakest boy.
His only safety lay in a school culture where somebody would run for help rather than try to fight back.
I completely disagree with "hit back and hit back harder" in this case. The boy is 5 and, TBH sounds like he has issues rather than being nasty or naughty.
In the case of bullies - what if they have also been taught to hit back harder? Where does it stop?
Cory, i dont know for sure. It just seems that there are more children than ever who do not understand or respect boundaries, and rarely if ever hear the word no.
I'll give you an example. Flying home from our summer holiday in august, the back of my seat was constantly being kicked by a child (looked around 7 and his sister who i'd say was a couple of years younger ) was doing the same to my dh's seat.
After about 10 minutes of this along with some high pitched screaming for good measure, i turned around and asked their mother to tell them to be quiet, and to stop kicking our seats.
Her response was that they were enjoying themselves, and she didn't see what harm they were doing.
I was absoloutely gobsmacked, as was the family who were sitting in front of us.
Soup dragon, this boy's issues, whatever they are are for his parents and the school to sort out. The op is concerned with the safety and well being of her own child, as are most parents i know
Yanbu to speak to the teacher.
I did when one -little shit-- boy was being horrible every time he sat near my ds.
The kid got moved and ds was able to get on with his work and was so much happier.
Agree with whistleblower, violent children seem more common now, with little respect for boundaries and consequences. Some even show now fear or regard for the head teacher.
Sometimes though these children behave better seated next to particular children, eg one boy I knew who was violent with other boys was totally different when seated with girls, much calmer. He said his dad had told him 'real men don't hit girls' which kept the girls safe though he was horrid to all the boys.
I'd just speak to the teacher.
Dd's friend is on the "bottom table" (or hippos/red table/diamonds... whatever euphemism teacher uses) and was plagued by a couple of boys, to the point where she was refusing to go to school. Her mother went to see the teacher, who said she'd keep an eye on things. She then decided to come up with a new table system, much to dd's friend's relief.
My DD is the smallest child in the school and, having had her birthday in August, is also probably the youngest.
She has perfected a terrifying, Medusa-like glower, used with great effect on the boy who tried to push in front of her in the line this morning. It promises that all hell will be let loose if they do it again and her teacher says, so far, no-one has pushed their luck!
Good or our dd tanith. My dd was like this in primary. She is now a 13 year old and taller than me and nobody messes with her
Soupdragon that's why I said on my post in this case
' In the end my kids did karate and learnt to hit back against the bullies and this helped. Although that was with 11 year olds so not appropriate in your case.'
Soupdragon, if it is the only thing that works and everything else has been tried, how can it be a bad thing? Bullies are normally wimps deep down or on their own.
Op, did you manage to speak to the teacher at parents evening?
YANBU to ask for a move however YABU to label this child 'Damien.'
DT2 in reception he was attacked by xxx several times a day my ds is a quiet type he really wants to 'learn' and hangs on his teachers every word. he is a 'good' boys sits nicley pays attention so the 'naughty' kids are often sat next to him a carpet time so they dont misbehave.
DT1 ( his brother) isn't as shy, and isn't backwards about expressing himself...
He saw xxxx hitting DT2 at playtime and went over yelling don't hit my brother - before shoving xxx into the dirt (he had golden time taken away after refusing to say sorry to xxxx - xxxx received no punishment)
Its very confusing for them - the musical chairs for the less well behaved kids is common - I have had lots of chats with their teachers how the boys see it as a punishment to have to sit next to the naughty kids instead of there friends.
DT2 didn't want to go to school today as xxxx will be there and he knew he would have to sit next to him
Parents eve tonight for us...... I have a few things to say
My older DD had this problem in the last year of primary - boy would chase her try to kiss her etc... would always be placed with her as he would be less disruptive to the class (ie only by annoying her) she is bright and would do all her work so teacher thought there was no problem - I got dd to write a letter to her teacher after begging me to do something about it about how much she hates this boy how he makes her feel and how unfair it was she had him on her table all the time - he was moved , she says now each table gets him for a week... except hers
I spoke to the teacher.
One of my friends who's a mum to ds's best friend in the same class has had previous problems with this teacher being non very proactive so I was a little worried.
She was nice enough and as soon as I opened my mouth and said 'I'm a little worried about one particular child that ds is having problems with..' and she looked and said yes 'XX' childs name.
She said she is aware of the fact there has been some issues and that he won't be sat next to him forever as they get moved around - also that my ds often 'says things back' to this ds - haha, shock - if I was stabbed with a fucking pencil I would say something too.
I said that if she's keeping an eye on it then that's fine but if there are any more issues I am going to insist he is moved.
Huh, not very reassuring bubalou. But at least teacher now knows you will not stand idly by whilst the other child stabs yours, so hopefully she will keep them apart in the future. Fingers crossed.
Now you need to just keep on top of it. If anything happens, speak to the teacher. Every single time. Just say, ds told me that (x) happened, can you tell me about it.
Every time. Seriously. The teacher will either a) move your ds so that he is not next to this child or b) realise that the child has some very serious issues that need more strategies to deal with.
There was a poster upthread who said they'd prefer to be told that there was a problem and left to deal with it...
But surely a decent teacher should know there is a problem in the first place?
Op if teacher already knows there are issues and hasn't bothered to do anything I would go to the head next. This child clearly needs to sit alone. I realise that isn't nice for him but getting stabbed with pencils isn't nice either.
A teacher cannot see everything, some children can be very discreet about things and if the child it is done to does not tell the teacher.... Having said that most of the time I am aware of what is going on, however I choose to deal with it how I as a professional sees best not in whatever way a Parent comes to tell me to do it. For example I move my seating plans every half term, so if a parent came to demand a child be moved a week before half term I wouldn't move them before my scheduled move. I would however keep a special eye on what was going on an punish any bad behaviour (from either child).
I agree with now mentioning to her every time something happens and will make sure I do this.
To be honest I think she might not want to look like she's not handling it so I suspect that she has left it but that now I have said it, it won't be long until he is moved.
Last day of school before half term today do we will see where he sits once they start back.
I am going to insist that he is moved
How does that work?
I just mean ask the teacher and say that I am not happy for ds to sit next to someone who repeatedly draws on, spits at, stabs with pencils.
That's fair isn't it? A 5 year old shouldn't have to put up with this at school, which he loves so much.
I think it's right to share your concerns. I thinks it's right that the teacher has the final say.
If the teacher is waiting until half term to move everyone around then I can see why she wouldn't do it a couple of days before half term - but I would have expected her to tell you that this is what is happening and reassure you that they will be on a very short leash in the mean time. But if it is just because she can't be bothered or thinks that she shouldn't have to do this at your request then that is very different and I wouldn't be happy.
I wouldn't be happy about her equating your ds saying things back to the bully as equivalent to the bullies actions. I would say that your ds knows not to hit back if somebody attacks him, even if he is hurt and/or his property damaged. Instead you have told him to talk loudly to the perpetrator to let them know that what they are doing is unacceptable. If this strategy is unacceptable to her then what does she want your ds to do when this bully strikes again (history suggests he will unfortunately) - as you would like to give your ds a strategy for dealing with the problem.
If she says that ds needs to come and tell her then you need to get it pinned down - what if it happens at a point when she is talking and has just said not to interrupt her for example? You don't want your ds getting hurt by the bully and then told off because he tried to tell the teacher!
I'd also ask to see the accident report / something official for when your ds was stabbed by a pencil by the bully and when the jumper was covered in pen. It's reasonable to ask for confirmation that the bully was dealt with, even if they can't tell you how, and that the bully knows that it was an unacceptable thing to do. How permanently damaged was the jumper - if it all washed out then that's one thing; if it is damaged then it is reasonable to ask that the bully (or his parents!) replace it. Even if they don't - doesn't make it any less reasonable for you to ask. Also the boy should be apologising after every incident. Bit late to do it for previous events but should be expected going forwards. An fit they don't have anything written down then that shows the difference between how you expect them to deal ith these incidents and how they actually do treat them. I don't know if it is possible to actually get them to retrospectively document some of the more serious incidents for the records?
Oh and if this continues - regardless of where the bully sits next half term, get it down in writing that they are failing in their duty of care to keep your son safe and you want to know what they are going to do about it - within say 5 days for a response.
I think that's the phrase that should make them sit up and take notice; if not hopefully somebody else on here will know!
I think it's right to share your concerns. I thinks it's right that the teacher has the final say.
So if your child was being bullied daily...and nothing was being done by the teacher (despite her obviously being aware that this child is a problem)
You'd just trust trust the teacher to have final say? Hmmm, I guess that's one way of doing it.
Definitely say something! You can be very polite and sensitive about how you say it, but do say something. Otherwise the teacher may not be aware. Also, if this escalates, you need to be on record early.
Funnily enough the thing that the other child does that upsets ds the most is drawing on his work books.
Ds has a little bit of OCD - not taking this phrase lightly, it's not diagnosed or particularly bad like hand washing etc but he likes certain things to be neat and gets upset for example if he has to cross something out rather then run it out in his book etc.
I told the teacher this and that it really upsets Ds that he's working and this child draws on his book and his work.
Her reply was that 'it's only a little line he draws when he does this and in fairness I have told 'ds' to do it back to him - which may or may not be the right thing'
Ds as I have said is not perfect but he isn't like that - as I have said above about his neatness - he would never do that to another child, even when provoked.
The funny thing is this child being called a bully - he is much smaller then ds (ds is the youngest in the year but he is also one of the tallest). I know it's not about how tall they are.
I'm not looking forward to pot trolley another 10+ years of school drama.
Bloody spell check - I meant 'run out' and 'potentially' another ten years!!
Yes colder. I respect the teacher's professionalism, their experience and the fact that they are actually there. I know this isn't a popular opinion but it's one I expect in my profession and a courtesy I extend to others.
What's the alternative colder?
If I felt I had enough evidence that my child was in any kind of "danger" and the teacher inept, I have the option of removing my child from their care.
I'm confused Vivacia
You would 'remove your child from the teachers care if you felt you had enough evidence they were in danger and the teacher inept'
yet you think that if this continues me asking the teacher to move him is over stepping the mark?
I have left this for over a month and left her to handle it. She has pretty much brushed off the issue when I bought it up. The conversation went like this (shorter version)
'I am concerned about ds and a certain child' - yes I know, you mean (childs name). 'yes, ds has been coming home 1-2 times a week for over a month now with various issues and reasons for being upset (listed them) and i know he is having to sit next to this child every day' - yes but DS does say things back to him, they do it to each other, it's backwards and forwards.
So I said - Oh OK, has DS spat on this child - No
Has he stabbed this child with a pencil or any other instruments - no
Has he pushed him over in the play ground - no
Has he drawn over his clothes - no
(these are all things he has done to my ds)
I asked what he does and apparently ds 'says things back' to this child when they bicker - NO SHIT!
If it's writing on the book or saying something then I might let it slip but if DS gets hurt one more time by this child I have given teacher enough notice I think to insist - quite fairly that he is moved!
I haven't read through that post OP, but I wasn't referring to your situation, just in general and in response to colder's question.
Meant to say, I think you've handled this great and sem to have the outcome you wanted.
Bullying is horrendous, we are going through this at the moment at a new secondary school after two years solid of it at primary. It does sound like you are on the case, with the right amount of assertiveness, that behaviour is unacceptable. They really need to have a behaviour plan for strategies, but of course it wouldn't be appropriate for the teacher to discuss that with you.
Is it at all possible, that your child is goading this child verbally in any way. It doesn't make bullying right, but is the teacher indicated some sort of tit for tat behaviour. Kids can be cruel to children with behavioural issue, not that I am suggesting for one moment, that your child is.
Ask him round for a play date - then check his scalp for the mark of the devil
YANBU & you sound lovely and very sensible.
I would ask the teacher to try and address matters, although to be fair it does sound as though they are trying. If things don't improve Ineoukd want DS moved. Tough if other parents d
.....don't want their child sat next to Damien. If necessary Daniem needs to sit at a table by himself if every other reasonable measure had failed. It is not acceptable for another child to put up with aggressive behaviour on a regular basis.
Thank you all - sunshinemmum - I have thought about this and as I said I'm not a mum that beloved her child is the messiah and incapable of doing anything wrong but he really isn't like that.
Even at 5 he takes work, school and being in class quote seriously. He comes back daily and tells me how he can't believe 'so and so' wasn't listening to the teacher etc.
He is an only child and honestly is just so gentle and sweet with other children and the teacher did day this. I suppose I can't be 100% sure though but this kid has caused problems for lots of other people I know too and has had bad behaviour issues since he started reception with ds over a year ago.
It is really tough Ds has ADS so we have been on both sides of the fence in terms of the scribbling etc, which is pretty tough to take for a child who is conscientious. the violence is another matter entirely too. Stick to your guns, I hope that child gets the intervention he needs to be able to integrate, there must be some issues, be it behavioural or something else. Awful for those suffering!
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