to sing "two little boys" to my DD

(53 Posts)

in the light of the revelations about Rolf Harris? After all no-one would sing Gary Glitters songs now, but I like the song (and she loves it)

FuckyNellItsHalloween Sun 20-Oct-13 18:48:55

No I wouldn't.

FortyDoorsToNowhere Sun 20-Oct-13 18:51:30

Most nursery rhymes have a bad meaning behind them.

I wouldn't sing it because I have never liked it.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Sun 20-Oct-13 18:53:36

It's a lovely song, I loved RH. If you are going to stop singing this, then you probably need to stop singing pretty much every other child's song there ever was!

Iamsparklyknickers Sun 20-Oct-13 18:54:15

There are other versions, it was around years before RH.

It'll have connotations for our generation but I doubt your DD will ever really take much of an interest - it'll be history to her. Although maybe not one to sing in public though.

Caitlin17 Sun 20-Oct-13 18:54:29

Difficult one. Probably not, a shame as it's a lovely wee song.

Then again Wagner was a vile person (in a different way of course) and no one bans him.

There is also the sculptor Eric Gill who was utterly vile and his work is still on public display on all sorts of public buildings including churches.

If you haven't heard of him, Google him, but be warned, he was a nasty piece of work.

ilovesooty Sun 20-Oct-13 18:56:26

He hasn't actually been convicted yet has he?

I would continue singing it if you like- your daughter will only associate the song with you, not anyone who's performed it.

JaneFonda Sun 20-Oct-13 18:57:31

I'm curious - what are the bad connotations? I know about RH obviously, but is it just because he sang it, or is there something in the song that I'm missing?

MalcolmTuckersMistress Sun 20-Oct-13 18:57:52

He's not been found guilty of anything yet! Blimey.

MetellaEstMater Sun 20-Oct-13 18:59:08

Pretty sure he has pleaded not guilty and the trial isn't until next year...

ilovesooty Sun 20-Oct-13 18:59:42

It's a good thing Lewis Carroll isn't around today or no one would be allowed to read Alice in Wonderland either.

ilovesooty Sun 20-Oct-13 19:00:32

He's pleaded not guilty and the trial isn't till April.

BurlyShassey Sun 20-Oct-13 19:01:55

Know what you mean, DC and I do a lot of arts and crafts and I always used to say ''can you tell what it is yet?'' in my RH voice, and now I just feel uncomfortable about it sad

also I love the gg xmas song, its on complitaion cd I have and never know wether to play it or not.

no answer for you, op, just empathising!

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 20-Oct-13 19:02:29

Oh for gods sake.

No there is nothing wrong with singing the song to her. She'll associate it with you regardless of whether RH is eventually convicted or not.

Fairly sure people still listen to Gary Glitter as well. May well not actually purchase his music but he was around for a long time before it came to light he is a paedophile. His music is likely to be lurking in many a music collection.

Iamsparklyknickers Sun 20-Oct-13 19:03:11

I would say the connotations lie purely with the fact RH sang it and it's so widely associated with him. In fairness I can only imagine it sang with an aussie accent so would be looking for other versions to help iron that out in my case.

The song itself is lovely - it's just anyone above 20 will probably always make that connection and do a bit of hmm'ing when they hear it.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Sun 20-Oct-13 19:07:45

It was written 28 years before RH was even born.

Stop hanging the man before his trial would you?!

SirChenjin Sun 20-Oct-13 19:10:27

My DM used to sing this to my DS and I when we were little - I have very fond memories of us sitting on her knee listening to this song. Even the RH associations can't spoil it for me, so I wouldn't even give that a second thought.

DaleyBump Sun 20-Oct-13 19:17:35

I had the same concerns as you, OP. My mum used to sing it to me and I sing it to my bump (silly, I know) but I figure that since it was around before RH sang it, it's not a problem.

Caitlin17 Sun 20-Oct-13 19:31:58

Re Lewis Carroll, I don't think he actually did anything. There is a photograph of Alice Liddell dressed as a beggar girl which doesn't really show much flesh but which with the benefit of hindsight looks a bit questionable now.

HopeS01 Sun 20-Oct-13 19:34:14

I love the song, and I'll sing it to my little boy. I wouldn't worry OP

MetellaEstMater Sun 20-Oct-13 19:34:32

Caitlin - check out the portrait by Carroll on his Wikipedia page. I'm actually surprised it is on there.

HopeS01 Sun 20-Oct-13 19:38:57

Metella I just had a look... hmm

Mymumsfurcoat Sun 20-Oct-13 19:40:00

I love the song, I would sing it to my DDs if they would let me. But the 2 year old much prefers The Welly Boot Song by Billy Connolly grin

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sun 20-Oct-13 19:47:16

There's a good Guardian article about Lewis Carroll
'He had impure thoughts, yes. What matters, in the end, is what he did with them."

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sun 20-Oct-13 19:47:50


morethanpotatoprints Sun 20-Oct-13 19:52:25

I think you should. I loved this song and have fond memories of my dad singing it to me. I sang it to my dc and I hope they will in turn.

Caitlin17 Sun 20-Oct-13 19:56:31

Metella, do you mean the one of Alice in rags? If so that's the one I was referring to. It's certainly very knowing and posed in a very come hither way.

YoniTime Sun 20-Oct-13 19:59:23

It's impossible to know if Carroll ever did or didn't do anything inappropriate isn't it?

HopeS01 Sun 20-Oct-13 20:04:47

Caitlin, worse! It's a young girl he's painted in the nude blush

MetellaEstMater Sun 20-Oct-13 20:05:11

It's a portrait of Beatrice Hatch. She is sitting on a rock looking thoughtfully out to sea. She is nude but posed as to cover her genitalia and chest.

MetellaEstMater Sun 20-Oct-13 20:05:59

The but in that sentence does not imply I think that's okay. It isn't in my book.

notanyanymore Sun 20-Oct-13 20:07:44

really...? i think that's a bit odd isn't it? if the song had a dodgy meaning then fair enough but just because someone that once sang it has been accused of something? i think that's really over thinking it to be honest.

Branleuse Sun 20-Oct-13 20:16:01

most artists and musicians are/were complete nutcases. Peoples personal lives are just that. If you like the song, it doesnt mean youre condoning anything the artist may or may not have done

Caitlin17 Sun 20-Oct-13 20:31:00

Metella, in the context of Victorian art not that unusual. Check Hylas and the Nymphs by William Waterhouse and In the cave of the Storm Nymphs by Poynter(?)

And loads of others.

YoniTime Sun 20-Oct-13 20:58:53

^The female models in those paintings were young but not prepubescent.
Portraying girls the way Carroll did in his photos wasn't really common was it. There sure was a lot of hidden child abuse during this period though sad

FourEyesGhoul Sun 20-Oct-13 21:08:30

I love 'Two Little Boys'. I also love 'Another Rock 'n' Roll Christmas' by Gary Glitter, and pretty much everything that Phil Spector produced. I am able to disassociate the people from the music.

Can't do that with Simply Red, though, for some reason. If I hear that prick's voice on the radio, I see his horrendous, smug face and I feel a bit sick. Shame, because he's had one or two decent songs.

N.B. Legal eagles: I am not suggesting that Mick Hucknall is guilty of anything other than being a self-satisfied, odious tosser.

Caitlin17 Sun 20-Oct-13 21:24:16

Yoni Time. I think it was a fairly well accepted fact Victorian brothels had children in them.

I'm not going to post a link as it's a horrible photograph but there is a photograph of a Victorian child prostitute of about 11 years old and 4 months pregnant.

The link below is to a BBC article on the subject.

BrokenSunglasses Sun 20-Oct-13 21:25:38

If I liked the song, I'd sing it to my children.

thegreylady Sun 20-Oct-13 21:27:07

I can't listen to The Little Drummer Boy because of its association with the Moors Murders.

CloverkissSparklecheeks Sun 20-Oct-13 21:31:56

I love that song, my mum always sang it to us and we both sing it to my boys.

What RH may or may not have done is nothing to do with singing that song to your DCs IMO.

Beastofburden Sun 20-Oct-13 21:44:24

Is it fair to call them "revelations"? Don't you mean, the charges against him?

We have to have a fair legal system. Until RH has been through his trial nobody has the right to say he is guilty or innocent of this.

YABU to post this question at this stage.

NotYoMomma Sun 20-Oct-13 21:45:13

what about Jake the peg? confused

YoniTime Sun 20-Oct-13 21:48:52

Exactly Caitlin, child abuse was disturbingly common then. I thought you were arguing that art was like that during that time period so Carroll's photos just showed the taste of the time, not his own pedophilia. I think it does. And unlike the Guardian article writer, I don't think we can be sure of if he was an active child abuser or not.

I of course don't think we should ban Alice in Wonderland, I just don't think he can automatically be considered innocent just because there has been no reports of him actually abusing children.

For some reason I thought RH had written the song - ah well, I was singing it tonight anyway, still love it, and so does DD. Just wondered what mumsnet made of it, but totally irrelevant if he didn't write it after all grin

BurlyShassey Mon 21-Oct-13 18:32:57

grin foureyesghoul exactly way I feel. And about Simply bigheadred!

HardFacedCareeristBitchNigel Mon 21-Oct-13 18:36:28

DH has been singing TLB to DD since she was tiny. We won't be stopping singing it just because of Rolf Harris.

Mim78 Mon 21-Oct-13 18:37:14

I would sing it. Not for any logical reason but if something sets me off singing a song that is it!

Also the song itself is pretty innocent.

If was going to be put off it I would have been by fact Margaret thatcher sung it once!

mrsWast Mon 21-Oct-13 18:38:02

i don't think Rolf Harris is like Candyman. i'm fairly sure you can sing his songs without him appearing behind you and making inappropriate demands...

phantomnamechanger Mon 21-Oct-13 18:39:25

thegreylady - really? what's the link there then??

I love 2 little boys sad

This really annoys me, sing what you want, you are not going to give your child am intro to the history of the song before you sing it, its like saying should i read my child a fairy tale as the are really adult tales..

Oldandcobwebby Mon 21-Oct-13 18:49:43

This thread surely must be a wind-up. Simply crazy.

BakeOLiteGirl Mon 21-Oct-13 19:42:21

I've been wondering this actually. I loved Rolf Harris songs when I was young. I saw him live in Bristol last year and he was amazing and entertaining. I'm personally a bit gutted. But then I would never play a Gary Glitter song.

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